Transcription
How should people deal with having lots of self-awareness or being a deep thinker? I heard, uh, a guy asked Peterson this question. "The depth of my consciousness causes me to suffer. Is it a blessing or a curse to feel everything so very deeply?" I thought it was a really great question. What's your opinion on that, and how can people with high self-awareness deal with it?
So it's funny because, um, you know, there's, uh, someone once told me that, you know, "I think my problem is that I have too much self-awareness." And so, here the main thing to understand: if you have a bunch of self-awareness, this is neither a good thing nor a bad thing. The question is, who's in control?
So the problem with people who have, quote unquote, "too much self-awareness" is that they are not in control of where their awareness goes. So if I become hyperaware, so we even see this in cases of people who have, uh, psychosomatic illnesses. So if you look at people who have things like irritable bowel syndrome, infl, uh, less so inflammatory bowel disease, fibromyalgia, what we know is they have something called visceral hypersensitivity. So any tiny signal in their body, like you and I are sitting down right now, our body is sending us lots of signals about us being uncomfortable, but we are able to suppress those. But some people are hyper-vigilant and hyper-sensitive to their internal signals. And this is the basic problem with awareness: is that if you have too much awareness, it's not that it's good or it's bad, it's that it's out of control.
So if we kind of think about, let's say, a raging river. Is a raging river good or bad? Well, that depends. Why is it raging? Exactly. Is it part of a, a dam where we're harnessing hydroelectric energy? Then it is amazing. Which has been my experience is that when I can take these people and teach them how to harness their awareness and focus their awareness, because most people who have too much awareness, it's like light that is defracted and spread everywhere. Instead, what you need to do is focus light, just like a laser beam. At which point, instead of being diffuse and wasted all over the place, because your mind is hyper-aware of this, and now I'm thinking about this, and now I'm aware of this, and now I'm aware of this, you need to be able to focus your mind like a laser beam, and then it can cut through things, and it is an amazing tool. So it's about who's in control, not that it's good or bad.
What are the strategies that are most efficacious for controlling? Uh, so I like a couple of specific practices. Um, so the two like very simple introductory ones that I tend to teach people. One is something called Trataka.
So, love your Indian accent. Every, every word that you say in Indian, I want to do the whole podcast in Indian. Okay. Sure. We can do a podcast in Indian. No problem. Okay. So first one is Trataka.
Okay, I can't focus. Go back. Go. You can't focus. I will teach you practice. Right. Interesting. You're talking about not being okay. Don't worry. Don't worry. I will help. I will help. Okay. Okay. You can't focus? No problem. Laugh. What is problem? See, laughing is not, is not lack of focus. Let yourself laugh. Better. Come on. Let it out. Let it out. Let it out. Right. What is the problem? Enjoy. Focus fully on the laughter. See, this is what I mean. Doing this in front of a jungle background is going to get someone canceled. No, it's okay. Don't fear the cancellation. Just breathe, and you'll be okay. Okay. Your choice. I can go either way. Let's stick with this one for now. I did enjoy that, though.
So, so one, one practice is something that I call Trataka, which is not I, that's what it's called. It's fixed-point gazing. So what I tend to find is that, uh, so fixed-point gazing is usually when you look at something like a candle flame or like a yantra, which is like a spiritual symbol, and you gaze at it for maybe 30 seconds, 60 seconds, 90 seconds. You work your way up slowly, and it's best to learn this from a teacher without blinking. So over time, what literally happens is you're, you tell yourself, "Okay, I'm going to look at this without blinking." And then over time, your body will send you signals. They're like, "Hey, we want to blink. This is uncomfortable. Let's move. Let's move. Let's move." And so what you're literally doing is you're training your attention to not do this thing. I also like Trataka because there's a certain badassness to it, right? Like you feel awesome. Yeah, like, like I'm going to, I'm going to control this, and you feel strong and powerful when you do this, this kind of Trataka practice. So we'll, we'll do kind of fixed-point gazing at a candle. It also, there's also some cool stuff that happens in the practice which keeps people engaged, like our photo receptors tend to get exhausted with pigments, and then you have kind of psychedelic experiences and stuff, which is kind of fun. Kind of get tunnel vision on the outside, right? So, so that's how you know you're doing it right. So there's a lot of good things in the practice. You got to be careful with it. You don't want to damage your eyes or anything, so don't, don't do it excessively. So that's one practice.
And the second practice that I really like is something called Gum, which is perfect stillness. So it's just to sit in a space that is, and just be perfectly still. And over time, what will happen is that will become increasingly uncomfortable. Is your body cries out to you, "We want to, we want to relax. We want to move. We want to do this. We want to do that." And then, and then usually what, what becomes beautiful about that is that as your body cries out with more and more pain, what starts to happen is what a lot of people will discover is that breathing becomes amazing. Because as your body becomes uncomfortable, the only solace that you have is the breath. While you're focused on the breath, while you're breathing in and out, then you feel amazing. Like, but the second that you stop concentrating on your breathing, the body becomes a flame of discomfort. And so these two practices, it's interesting how, how much ecstasy can be derived from the breath. And then the other really brilliant thing about this practice is you begin to realize that it's really weird, and and maybe we should have done it, but you begin to realize that like, there's so much joy just in breath. And then hopefully, people who do this practice long enough will start to realize something really insane, which is that a lot of your happiness in life is not dependent on the things that you think normally bring you happiness. Even the breath can be so pleasurable, so intoxicating, so relaxing. And you do this all day long, and you just have no awareness of it. And then hopefully, what tends to happen, and this is my experience with most people, is they start to realize that, okay, a lot of my life, the joy is actually created on the inside. It's about how I live. It's about how I receive things. And, and then they start working on the inside, which is when the magic starts to happen.
How long should people look to do the stare at the candle? Sit still for for an introductory session? Yeah. So I, I would say for something like Trataka, you know, it's, it's best to learn from a teacher, and many like yoga and meditation schools will teach this stuff. But, you know, for Trataka, I would say like, go to the point of discomfort, but not to the point of pain. Um, there are some medical contraindications, so you need to like, talk to your doctor about it if you've got things like glaucoma or other like pressure-related problems in the eyes. But generally speaking, I'd say you can start with 30 to 60 seconds and gradually work your way up to like two minutes, three minutes, four minutes. Um, and then that's usually enough. And then there's another, the cool thing is with Trataka, there's a, there's a different practice that you can do called Ana, which is kind of the next phase. So, um, and this is where you, you kind of said you get the tunnel vision. So the cool thing that happens in, in the, in the eyes is once you exhaust your photo receptors and your pigments in your eyes, if you close your eyes, you will see the afterimage in negative. So then what you can do is, without risking any problems in your eyes, you can close your eyes, and you'll actually see a blue candle flame if you're gazing at a candle, and it's the opposite. And that's just how our eyes work. And then you can continue to do the Trataka like in your mind, like looking in your mind at, at the negative image of the candle flame. And then you can do that practice for like 15, 20 minutes.
Is this where you got your inspiration for the "make people stare at a wall for 30 minutes" exercise? No, actually. So that's a different, that's a different practice. But the, the "make people stare at a wall," which has been a revolutionary practice in our, in our community. It is the joy of that practice. See, we're so distracted from ourselves. And so many people come to me and they're like, "I don't know what I want to do." Right? So someone doesn't know, they're like, "Should I major in this or should I major in this? Should I break up? Should I not break up? Should I change jobs? Should I stay jobs? Should I pursue my passion? How do I find my Dharma or my duty?" You know, no one knows what to do in life. And so as we become clueless about what to do, we turn to the outside world. And then we look at influencers. And then influencers say, "You should do this, and you should do this, and you should do this." And then before we had influencers, we had the original influencer, which which is our parents. And our parents say, "Look, become a doctor. You're going to be a good doctor, right?" Those are the original influencers. And they give us this set of conditions that we have to fulfill. And so the, the main thing that's happened is, if you literally look at our attention, our, our attention is always outside of us. Now, because I want to be efficient, right? So what am I going to do? I took a shower this morning. I put on, this is a great podcast called Modern Wisdom. It's by Chris Williamson. And like, I'm going to put on this episode because then when I'm in the shower, and I'm taking a, can I use language? Yeah, okay. When I'm taking a, when I'm shaving, like I'm going to be learning during those moments. And then this was something that I did during med school where I was like constantly like input, input, input, over-clutter. Yeah. And so we don't spend time with ourselves. And when we don't spend time with ourselves, we lose sight of our internal compass. And no wonder we have no idea what to do, because we're listening to all these different people. And then this person says this one day, this person says this the next day. And then like, so I keep changing my mind. Programmed schizophrenia, sort of. Yeah.
And so the, the staring at a wall practice is, sit at a wall, and we're just going to look at a wall for an hour. And then at the beginning, you'll be bored. But then you have all of this crap that has piled up inside you, all these some scars that are dormant, all these negative experiences of hurt that the second you felt hurt, you flipped open your phone to distract yourself from the pain. And then that pain sunk into you and lived in your subconscious. So what we're going to do is just stare at a wall and just let whatever is there come up.
What are some of the strangest trip reports that you've heard from your community? I mean, it's, it's wild. So like, even, um, someone in our, uh, like one of our employees did, did the practice, and he was kind of describing what happened. And like, people will have all, like, people start crying. They'll like feel all these things that they've never felt before. Usually, the first 5 to 15 minutes are like complete boredom. People with ADHD will struggle to pay attention. Their mind will bounce all over the place. And then some of them will actually like end up having a very, like calm and rested mind after it bounces around for all over the place. But I think some people, the lucky, I'd say maybe 10 to 25%, will really like learn something or get some kind of emotional catharsis. I think a longer, a larger number of people start to realize they do not need to fear being with themselves. And that's really powerful. You don't need something else to to entertain you. You can take a flight to Europe that is 8 hours. You don't need a book. You don't need a phone. You don't need anything. You can sit. And oh my God, it's like so terrifying, right? And then, and so it's amazing what you can learn if you sit with yourself. The challenge for a lot of people is that there is so much negativity in there that it can feel overwhelming. Sitting with yourself is an unbelievably uncomfortable experience. Yeah.
And there's a beautiful, um, sort of apocryphal story, like a mythology story in, in the Hindu tradition about this churning of the ocean. And at the bottom of the ocean, there was like some kind of nectar or Ambrosia or some sort of divine substance. But the whole point is that when they started churning the ocean to try to get to it, poison came up first. And so there's a really cool kind of perspective from the, this like, this yogic tradition that anytime you want to find gold within you, or anytime you want to find nectar or amrit, um, you're going to find poison first. So the pathway to finding inner peace involves going through poison.
I had a, an insight when I started doing self-inquiry five or six years ago that, um, for every, it's kind of like in a garden and looking for stuff underneath stones. And, you know, every so often underneath the stone, you find something that's really beautiful that you're proud about yourself for. It's, it's a, a realization that you feel whole. But that's one out of 20. And the remaining 19 have something terrifying and disgusting and and awful hiding underneath. I think that's around about the right proportion as well. Yeah.
So, so let me ask you this, has that changed over your five or seven year? I would say so. Uh, but in some ways, the level of attention and the sort of, uh, complex, not complexity, but like the level of dexterity and and, uh, finesse with which I'm looking at stuff has now increased. It's always getting more. It's always getting more. It's always getting more. So as you are getting better at looking within yourself, what has changed about what you're finding?
Originally, I think I was just trying to sort of lay down a path. It was really struggling. I remember the first time when I first started reading, you know, all of my 20s, I sent, I sent and received like 10 million WhatsApp messages over a decade as a club promoter, right? Mostly on my phone. This wasn't WhatsApp Web. So kind of impressive, kind of terrifying. Um, and then I, I remember when I first, before I even started meditating, I just wanted to read. And I'd look at a book, and as I was sat down, my body would like twitch and move, uh, presumably because it was trying to downregulate to this much lower level of stimulus. There was no bings, bongs, no banners coming down, no nothing. It was a piece of paper. Um, so the first 500 sessions of meditation that I did were, I think, just like learning to be able to have a slightly still mind and a slightly still body. Then the next 500 were probably a little bit more about, uh, noticing thoughts when they arise. And the next stage where I'm trying to get to now is, where are these coming from? Like, what is the motivation for this story that I tell myself? This is why my current obsession with emotions and feelings is coming from. Also doing therapy, um, to try and see, okay, not just can you sit with it, not just can you notice it, but why is that there? Why is this a pattern that you are seeing more increasingly? So it's kind of hard for me to say, um, like, am I becoming, is the proportion of things changing? Because I'm like, each time I move to a different, it's like a computer game, or I move to a different garden.
Yeah. So, so I, and I think that's, that's wonderful. And I, I think, you know, being obsessed about emotions is, I'm sure not the first obsession you've had. No. True. Right? So, so one day you're going to have to ask yourself, where does the obsession of things come from? Right? Thematic question. Yeah. Absolutely. Right. So, so that's when, and when you get to that level, by the way, all of your obsessions will fall apart. That's, that's the good thing. So I, I think, so for a lot of people, and this is, I think what we see in therapy, right? Is that the negativity comes first, and then the positivity comes afterward. And so for a lot of people who, and this is what's so hard about internal work, is that see, the reason that there's so much crap underneath the rocks is because our garden has been untended for such a long time. And so the negativity piles up. And I realized this actually, very interestingly, I was, I was working with someone who was, uh, an immigrant and was from an Aboriginal kind of tribe. And I realized that in their life, in the normal human's life, we had so much time for emotional processing. We're going to go out as hunter-gatherers. We're going to hunt, right? What is there to talk about? You can talk a little bit, but then for hours, you're with yourself. And that's how our brains evolved. Our brains evolved with a minimum of external stimulation, which means the default mode of where our attention goes, like so much of it, eight hours of the day, was internal. We used to do all these rote tasks, like churning butter. And like churning butter, like, you know, you're, what is, what do you think about when you churn butter? Like you just, so you're, our brain defaults to so much time for emotional processing. And now, what started to happen is we lose that time. This negativity piles up. Then, as you start to look within yourself, there's a bunch of negativity, which is why we need therapists, because most people can't handle that on their own, right? We're not trained to do that. And so over time, though, I think you're going to find a lot of positivity. And you'll find that that negativity, unless you continue to feed it, it will start to dissolve.
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