Transcription
So, welcome back, Saka.
Thank you.
How does it feel?
It feels great, actually. I feel completely comfortable here.
Well, can I make you a bit more uncomfortable?
I was going to say, don't get too comfortable too soon.
So, this is obviously your second visit and last year was your first time here in Riyad. And I've seen, you know, you you are quite prolific on your socials and in the in the media and you've spoken, I would say, very positively, very highly about this country and about your experience. So, let's talk a bit about what that global attention on a country like this is going to do. Um, and get some of your perspectives from your media angle, from the lens of narratives to help everyone in this room to tell some stories about this country and the projects that they're working on.
Well, it's amazing to me. I mean, I first came to the Gulf 25 years ago because of the drama in the surrounding region, just as a journalist. and I've been in and out not of this country but surround other GCC countries for 25 years. So, I've uh watched this amazing thing happen and not just the incredible growth in infrastructure and development um and technology, but also just the gathering of a lot of people from around the world, interesting people. And I was just saying to a friend of mine sitting right there that one of the things I love so much about coming here is you'll go to dinner in Riad or other other cities in the area and you like run into people you know from other places. What are you doing here? Well, what are you doing here? And there's something wonderful about that and it is a kind of weirdly free space. Um,
so I
well with so much opportunity and potential as well. You can understand why people are coming.
Yes. And there's a there's a cultural quality here that is almost never remarked upon but that I really value which is graciousness,
politeness. I agree.
Which is, you know, was a huge feature of the culture that I grew up in and and is is changing unfortunately in parts of the West. But that was very prized in the world that I grew up in. You know, kindness to strangers, politeness, some formality, not stiffness, but formality.
Um, and hospitality.
Absolutely.
Treating strangers as family. And that was a big part of the world I grew up in. And that exists here. And it's very obvious. I don't that's not fake at all. I'm having dinner at someone's house tonight um who I really like. And but it was just very natural, you know. So, uh, I love that. And it's welcoming.
Indeed. It is. And do you feel the welcome or the experience has been different even the second time round because you know last time was you know you were a newbie and now you're an old hand at uh at Saudi. Do you think it's changed even in that year?
Well enormously and the perceptions have changed. I mean I I really grew up in Washington uh where the Saudi government had a huge presence and they were very active and they're part of the city and part of the decision-making and friends with my family. So there were a lot of Saudis around growing up, but the country itself, KSA, was this kind of distant, mysterious place that evoked camels and repression and like no one actually went there and live in a compound and all the stuff you would hear about it. And even last year when I came, I had people say, "You went to Saudi Arabia?"
And of course this year, just a year later, it's like, "Yeah, of course everyone's in Saudi like
Yeah.
Um, and I'm glad to see that because it's reality based. I'm not here to promote the Saudi government. Uh, of course I'm American, but I think that Saudi Arabia is a fundamentally real country. It's an ancient country. It's the physical center of a one of the largest religions in the world. And it is of course a force because of its resources and its diplomacy. So like
I'm glad to see a real country get treated like a real country, like an actual country, not just a client of some other country. So it's good.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if people had some ideas about those things you've spoken about? the graciousness, the hospitality, the kindness before they commented on it from afar because I think it's an experience which once you've had changes your perception.
I strongly agree with that and I've taken a lot of abuse in my country for saying things like that out loud. I'm for whatever it's worth a pretty fervent Christian and I feel uh completely comfortable here in the in the seat of Islam. Not be right. I it's a and why is that? uh and just just saying that is a threat somehow um to some people who are propagandists and liars and um but it's true so I'm going to say it and moreover I think it points up like something that's really important about life which is it's worth meeting people and seeing things before you try to assess them. Oh, that's a great life lesson. I wish
I try not to talk about anything I haven't smelled. And um and I mean that and including people like how do you really know you're what you're doing is you are taking other people's word for something which if it's say your wife or your children or someone you love is okay, but if it's like a propagandist you've never met who's trying to convince you to do something against your own interest, maybe you should not take the his word for it.
Yeah, I think we could all uh take a dose of that. Yes. bringing it to the people in this room. You've obviously spoken to huge audiences around the world, very diverse audiences. Why do gatherings like this matter so much?
Well, because it I mean on many levels it matters. One, because it's just amazing to see a country kind of become more fully itself or in reinvent parts of itself. I mean, the the things about Saudi I admire most are just fundamental. I mean, it's moving on 2,000 years of being what it is. and and I and I love that about it. But physically, of course, the country is changing in ways that are just remarkable. I tried to get a handle on the population of Riad this morning, asking people who live here, knowledgeable people, including in your government, and there was anywhere between 8 and 10, a lot
and I just think it's amazing to see that. Um, but it's also important for me personally to go to this event because it it's a window into the changing global economy which I think is really interesting like where people buy property of all things which is not something you can move
right I mean it's one thing to buy even energy by the way you can
put it in a LG container or oil tanker or whatever gold you can throw it in your bag a housing development doesn't really travel well. So much
where people spend their money or their funds money, their investors money, their LP's money really matters because it's an expression of their faith in the future of the place where they're buying. These are not short-term decisions. These are not derivatives. These are assets the tr in the truest sense.
So I'm really interested in where investment is going and I track it. I'm I mean, by the way, Madrid is killing it, which is interesting in in terms of foreign investment in real estate. I would not have expected that. I don't know why that's happening. I plan to find out because it tells us something important about where the world is going. And so, an event like this,
you just you just learn.
I mean, investment is a fascinating topic because obviously with the change in the non-Saudi ownership law,
Yes.
all eyes are on where foreign investment is going is coming.
Asset investment. It's just different from equities. It just is.
Yeah.
Because once you buy it, like it's there. So, you really have to think about,
you know, it's e, you know, it's easy to dump invidia stock. It's harder to dump an office building. So, like people really think about it, I think.
Yeah. Absolutely. So, what's your take then with this new law? People who are non Saudi are going to be able to invest, are going to be able to own here in the kingdom. Do you think that's an exciting thing as somebody who looks at stories, looks at kind of opportunity? What does that say to you?
Well, I mean, I think it's it's a referendum on the world's confidence in the future of Saudi Arabia. So, it's like fascinating to watch there. And I think I presume like a lot of things about Saudis growth and maturity, it's going to be managed wisely.
Yeah. I also think however having been in a lot of different places around the world and living in the United States you know just keep hold of your country fundamentally do not let foreigners buy your country you know parts of your country assets in your country great
but not your country
but that's
so that that would be my advice as an American
but the investor confidence like you say this this sense of people being able to put down real roots in a place financial roots in a place it changes the way you view a country doesn't it? Well, yeah. And one thing you learn about investment in assets, it just makes intuitive sense, is that people aren't doing it without a whole suite of other promises met, like some expectation that the laws aren't going to change over overnight. You know what I mean? That you can ensure it, things like that. Questions that are, you know, very real to asset investors, really very real to energy investors, questions that are affecting, you know, the prospects in Venezuela, for example. you need to guarantee and convince investors that you have actually guaranteed you know a bunch of different things and so yeah it is a vote of confidence for sure in a country
absolutely and a spotlight I suppose and that attention is coming uh much more closely to Saudi in lots of ways
yeah it is it's I mean as someone who again as I said grew up around a lot of Saudis just in Washington I don't know how big the presence is now the the current ambassador's father was then quite a figure in front of my parents and like everywhere in Washington and the prince.
Um, even then everyone liked the Saudis because they were very sophisticated and they all spoke French and you know what I mean and all this stuff
and they knew what was going on in the world but the idea that you would buy property in their country was like completely unimaginable like maybe on an Aramco compound or something you know what I mean?
Yeah, for sure for sure. Yeah, things are changing. So, everyone in this room is obviously involved in building better cities, playing their part, and some of that's through big entities, big corporates, and some of it's through smaller organizations. Now, you started your own outlet in 2010, didn't you? Um, what was harder than you expected about building something from the ground up?
Well, just the uncertainty of it, you know, being responsible for payroll and basically being responsible for the future. The trade-off, however, is you don't take orders from people you don't respect. And I think I'd probably rather live in poverty at this point than do that again. Um, because there's something uniquely degrading about it, especially for a middle-aged man, which I am at 56. I'm just not going to not going to do that ever again. So, there is a a freedom in it.
Yeah. uh that is unmatched by by anything else. But there's also a lot of risk, obvious risk. And um you know, there's also something kind of nice in the way that like if you have dogs, like they just at 6:00 you feed them, they're kind of psyched that they don't have to go find the dog food themselves.
Yeah, absolutely.
And as an employee, you know, I felt the same way.
Yeah. Because you did then go back into a big organization and then in 2023, you left that machine again. No, I was actually fired um from that machine ignominiously. No, fired. Sacked.
Handed my lunchbox and told to go home. Yes, I was.
Yeah.
Okay. I've been fired as well. Who Who has been fired? Anyone in the room been fired? You going to admit it or not today?
Admit it. I'm bragging about it. No, it's a
Yeah, I think I think bragging about being fired is not a bad place to start.
I've really enjoyed it. Let me just say because it's true that every middle-aged man should be humiliated in public at least once. um because it's good for your soul. And the option if you know one or married to one or are one of a middle-aged man who's just succeeded and never been humiliated, they're very hard to have dinner with because they think they're God. So, it's very important to be reminded that no, I am mortal. I'm kind of ridiculous.
You know what I mean?
I absolutely know what you mean. I mean, until you've fallen off a stage or, you know, tripped over. So my theory is that if I ever became king, and we don't have a monarchy officially in our country yet, but um but the first act of my royal court would be to require every man over 50 to install a full-length mirror outside his shower. And so when you emerge from the shower, you see yourself in all your unimpressive glory, in your lumpy furiness, and you realize, "Nope, I'm not God. I'm just some guy."
And that's good for Alternatively, we could just give everyone a role as the court jester in the royal court for at least a week, right?
I would have those, too. I would do a lot of things.
Yeah, I think that would be quite fun. Amazing. So, let's talk about change. Let's talk about things that move fast. Let's talk about what makes you trust that it's real and not just a show because you cannot deny the fact that things in the kingdom are changing fast. So, what does that look like from your perspective? How can we really kind of bank those wins, prove those points that it's real change and it's here to stay?
Simple.
Oh,
I have a two-word answer. Plant trees.
That's real.
They're planting a lot of trees.
Nothing digital is actually real. Gets taken out by an EMP attack. I live surrounded by trees that were planted when my grandparents were born and they will be there when my grandchildren are old. Trees are a longitudinal bet.
Absolutely.
And in this region, it's not a small thing to plant a tree because you have to water it with the world's most expensive dissalinated water truck piped in from the sea, which is not close. So any place that's doing that is clearly betting on the future, not in a rhetorical way, but in a physical way. And and that's and the accompaniment to that very quickly would be trust the physical over the rhetorical every single time. There's a reason and I'm not attacking crypto in any way. I think crypto is really interesting and potentially a great thing for the world, but I don't notice the Chinese central bank storing it in its vaults. They're not dumping treasuries to buy crypto. They're dumping treasuries to buy gold. Okay? So, I'm not and I'm not even weighing in on that good or bad. I'm just noting what's happening. And why are they doing that? Because gold has intrinsic value? No, it doesn't. Actually, it's got some industrial applications, but because it's physical and has proven over time to be a reliable store of value for whatever reason. So,
in the end, people trust the physical world as they should over the digital or illusionary world. And you should too. And that's one of the reasons I've always been a real estate investor, a buyer, and one of the reasons I like real estate people, because they can point to a physical thing and say, "Here's where the power comes from. Here's where the water comes from. Here's how many square feet it is." Like, it's or pardon me, meters, and it's actually a physical place on a map in space and time. And that beats the fake world. Sorry, even the blockchain every single time. Yeah. Well, you talk about planting trees, you talk about tangible buildings. We do that. How do we make that story stick? Because that's what your world is all about. It's about telling compelling stories. It's about finding the stories that kind of stick in people's minds and anchor points of truth and proof.
How do you tell stories that stick?
So, I've toured a lot of the developments here in Riyad, not because I'm a big investor, but because I'm interested, very interested, and I've seen all the models. I was just looking at them right now and one of the things I noticed is the ratio of green space to housing density is amazing.
Yeah.
I mean, it's like Victorian London, it's New York 1910. It's Frederick Law Homestead. It's like someone is planning this with nature integrated into it at very high cost. So it's the cost that that I'm really struck by, especially here. Green space in Riyad has got to be the most expensive just because the physical limitations, the water, the you're not you're not actually selling the green space. You're getting nothing for this. Why are you doing it?
You're doing it because that's what actual civilization looks like.
Yeah.
In my opinion, that's what it looks like. People need nature. They're born needing nature. They are products of nature. God created us and nature. And so to live without it is a kind of punishment. It is a kind of crime against the human soul. And to spend money you don't need to spend to restore that, I just saw it right there on the map. The ratio of green space to housing units is remarkable. And so when I see those pictures or walk through it, I'm like, "Okay, these people are serious. This is not like I'm going to build the densest condo complex I can on the outskirts of Las Vegas and turn it as quick as I can and then offshore my money." This is like, "No, no, no. We live here. We want it to be beautiful. we're going to be here at the beginning and at the end and then our kids are going to be here with your kids. Like I like that kind of thinking and it's increasingly rare.
So, how do we amplify that message? Because you've seen it. You, like you said, you've smelt it and you've walked it.
Oh, yeah.
But we have a global audience who can take some of these messages back with them. How do we amplify that story?
Uh, by texting people pictures of it.
Okay,
that's what I would do. I would say this is you know Riyad which is like in some ways a city that it's not obvious that it would be here. Jed is very obvious, right? Why is Jed? Well, clearly it's an ancient port. It's next to the the holy city, so obviously it's there. Riad
the biggest city in the region by far in the GCC. Like, why? Because it was planned and built on purpose. And here's what they did. And people just can't conceive of that.
No.
And because it is, let's be real, very, very new, like as a true city, as a global city. People have no idea what it looks like.
Yeah. and you send them pictures of like Central Park in the middle of Riad and they're like, "Oh, wait, wait a second. I know what that is." That's wise planning.
Yeah.
That's not fly by night stuff. Yeah.
That's what I would do.
And we're living in a world, aren't we, of I, you know, disinformation, misinformation, uh,
lying. Yeah. Lying. Uh, AI enhanced, generated, created, uh, images, messages. Is there something that you're seeing in this world of media in the new narrative that helps us to tell people in a way that they know is true?
Well, look, I mean, I think the I would say two things. One, I try not to look at media because I think it's so fundamentally dishonest that it can only pollute and corrupt me. When we see things, and this is true of violent images, this is true of pornographic images. It changes us. It's not good for us. It's not good to eat poison food. It's not good to see dishonest or misleading images. It we can't help it. We are changed by that. So, I just try and stay away from it. I I read the New York Times last probably during the Obama administration. No thanks. Apparently, they read about me quite a bit. I've never seen any of it and I'm never going to. So, I try and filter that stuff out. Yeah,
but I do think that true things sound different. It's it's almost like if you're trying to measure tone in music, like certain
tones are just resonant in a way others aren't. You hear it, you hear it, you're like, "Oh, what is that?"
Truth pattern
interrupted.
Yes. Exactly. Exactly. There's a science to this. I don't
really understand, but I I know it
because I've experienced it. And true words sound different. they ring differently and you don't forget them. So, I would just have confidence that the truth actually is the best sales pitch. And two, I would say if you're thinking about how to talk about things and meet needs of people globally, longitudinal thinking, security,
placid, safe in a world that is changing so fast that dynamic doesn't begin to describe what's happening. changing on every level. The global economic system is of course changing. The aortionment of global power is changing. The move from unilateral to multipolar is very much underway and very much uncertain what will happen.
Yeah.
It's going to take a lot of wisdom to get that right to have a globalized economy but a multipolar world. That's never been attempted before.
Yeah.
Uh and I I have hope but I have concerns as anyone watching would. And so what are people looking for? or they're looking for a safe haven.
Yeah.
Something that improves at a brisk pace but doesn't fundamentally change too fast. Improvement, we can handle quick improvement. We cannot handle wholesale as human beings. We cannot handle wholesale change very well. We're not wired to metabolize that
and we don't do it well and it becomes chaos and very disorienting to people. So the thing that I like and I actually brought one of my children um who's very much American to uh to Riad this week and I said look you well Saudi Arabia what what is Saudi Arabia and I said just come see it and I think you will feel the calm the stability the safety which is not a small thing as someone who I know everyone here travels a lot you're in the real estate business you're in cities all over the world there are safe cities in the world there aren't there aren't a ton of them though Yeah, absolutely.
There's not like a hundred, they're like 10,
especially in the west, you know,
from IstAnul west, there aren't a lot.
Yeah.
And uh this is a safe place and you can feel it immediately. And so I I think that is worth saying. It's something that local people probably take for granted.
I think you're I think you're right. I think people don't necessarily always realize what's very unique about their environment or their space, but it's being opened to visitors and a massive global spotlight with Expo 2030 with the World Cup in 2034. We've got a lot more people who are going to come through the doors of the kingdom over the next few years to experience those things like you have just said.
Can I give a piece of totally unsolicited and totally inappropriate advice?
Let let me check. May Tucker Carlson give us a piece of totally unsolicited advice.
Yes.
I, as I said, I am not a Muslim. I'm not going to become a Muslim. I am a fervent and sincere Christian. I think alcohol is really bad. I just think that. And I love that there's not a lot of booze here. And I know that there are some people are like, "Well, people aren't going to come here unless we sell alcohol." And I know that. But, by the way, if you want to drink in any place on the planet, you can find out. You can make it yourself out of prune juice if you want, right? anywhere. Doesn't matter. Prison, people make alcohol. So, you're always going to have alcohol, but can you buy it in a bar? Is it easy to buy alcohol? I love the fact that it's not here. I just do. I'm I'm not arguing for prohibition in the United States. I live in a different culture, a different world. But it's nice to come to a place where it's like, no, we don't do that. You know, if you get bacon, it's ve bacon, whatever that is. Okay, I'll try that. And no, you can't have a vodka tonic. Okay. And everyone sort of knows the rules. I don't know. I think there is a balance between progress and delilution of what makes your civilization what it is.
Yeah.
And I would be very very careful of that. You know that tons of changes here. Of course I'm a westerner. I'm very liberal by Saudi standards. So it's it's great. But there are certain things I'd hold on to and I have a whole list of them which I'm not going to share here. But the obvious one is alcohol. And I know that when the World Cup comes people like we can't, you know, all the British soccer fans are drunk all day. like we need to serve them booze. They can stay sober for a week. That would be my view. It'll be good for them and good for you. So, I' I'd stick with the no booze stuff.
It's an interesting debate that's happening a lot, especially with the opening up to, you know, and the increase in in tourism as well and this desire that the the country has these different sort of economic pillars. Um, but like you say, there are always two sides to to every coin. You guys have a lot I mean I I love the fact that your country and others in the region are really thinking hard about how do we diversify our economies? We can't just be pro states like that doesn't work.
Absolutely.
And I love that. I think it's so forwardinking. But let's just be totally real. Like you don't need to make money from alcohol sales. Like if people don't want to come because they can't get alcohol, that's okay. There are tons of people who are fine with that for a week. Like if you can't go a week without being drunk, you know what I mean? Go go go to Scotland. It's okay.
There other places for you.
Scotland.
No, I'm not against Scotland. I'm for Scotland, but I'm just saying that's more my culture, you know, but keep your culture.
Yeah. And I think it is going to be really interesting to see how those economic pillars do develop because we're talking about tourism, we're talking about sport, we're talking about real estate, we're talking about property technology. all of those different areas where there's increased investment, where there's increased focus
and increased pressure to conform to other people's standards of behavior. And you should resist that as much as you can.
So how?
Be yourself. Be totally un we're Saudi Arabia. We're the seat of Islam. We have a holy cities here
and we're not doing that. And by the way, nothing. We're rich and you can't make us do it. Okay? We're not perkas. You can't boss us around. Okay? If you don't like it, leave. And not in a mean way, but just don't allow international bodies and particularly the soccer people, okay? They want to come in and tell you, "Oh, you need this, that, or the other thing. You need transgender marriage or something. You can't play soccer in your country." Buzz off.
But you're saying go with change, but change in a way that's authentic.
Stay true to yourself and your own values. That's it. It's not about being mad at anyone else. I travel a lot and you guys all do, too. And you know that in certain countries, they have certain customs and you don't understand them. Maybe you don't like them, but it's not your country and they're not your customs. And that's okay.
It's okay. I go to places where they practice religions. I don't even understand them. I'm not mad about that. I don't live there. But what I don't do is try to say to them, you're not allowed to do that because it's not my country.
So, don't let anyone do that to you. That's all I'm saying. Have self-respect.
I think that's a wonderful message and I think it's something that hopefully with the global spotlight on the country uh we'll be able to maintain. And that
it's just so insidious though. They come in and they're like, "Well, you can't have this thing unless you change your values." It's like, I love I love Europe. My ancestors are from Europe. I have family in Europe. I absolutely love Europe. But like, how are modern European values working for modern Europeans?
Not so well.
So, don't take that lecture from them. Don't let the Belgians tell you how to live.
We've had a lot of people on these stages. We had Dr. Hala just before you talking about doing things in a way which absolutely preserves the essence of the people. It preserves the essence of the country.
I thought that was the whole point. Diversity is our strength. I actually believe that. I like diversity. I like going to places that are different. I respect differences. I'm enriched by them.
I I really mean that. I've been in the Islamic world during Ramadan. I'm like, "What is this? This is amazing. I'm not going to do it. I'm not Muslim, but I'm like, I really respect this."
Yeah.
Difference is good. But the people who tell you diversity is our strength don't believe it. They want uniformity. They want you to obey them. And how about no?
So let's just talk for a moment about the changes and how that can be um something where we do preserve our heart, we preserve our spirit. You talked about hope.
Now it's a very uncertain world. It's a very uh it's a very fast changing world. I know you have deep faith. I know a lot of people in this room have deep faith and that's part of hope. Are there any other ways in which you hold on to hope despite the uncertainty?
Honestly, I think that prayer is the key. I didn't always think that. I'm the product of a very secular world. I learned that. I was not taught that as a child. I was born in 1969, the year of the moon landing. Whether or not it happened, irrelevant. We thought it did. And that was kind of sort of peak secular. Science had conquered nature. We put a man on the moon. So we were in charge and everything that flows from that. And um I did not consider that God was real or that you could talk to him or that he would answer. And it's only 56 years of rough and tumble living that have shown me that that is absolutely true. And it is our only hope in the end.
Yeah.
There are so many things we can't control. We think we can. We come up with these plans. God laughs at us because they're a little absurd, let's be honest. And the only thing that we can be certain of is that he's in charge, not us, and that we will be judged on what we do. And that in the end, it's fine because he's in control and not us. I mean that. I feel that.
I think holding on to hope and yeah, with the faith that we have is a wonderful, wonderful takeway.
That's the only answer.
Yeah. So, another takeaway because I'd love to give our audience a couple more practical nuggets. Okay,
I know because you've had such an amazing career and we can definitely learn from some of your expertise and skill. Um, we've talked a bit about avoiding some of the kind of falsified media and I think that's a great lesson when we have this media attention. But let's just talk for a moment about listening because you have spent your life listening for what's real. So, is there a a technique or a tool that you might give everybody in this room that they can take into a meeting or a big conversation to really listen for what's real?
I think if you listen carefully, you know instantly what's real. You don't always know what it means, but we know a lot more than we allow ourselves to believe about others and the world around us. We can feel it. I would always say to my I have a million daughters, tons of daughters, and I would always say to them, if you feel a situation is threatening, it is. You don't have to know why. Remove yourself because your instincts do not lie to you. So, we know, we know. It's a matter of listening carefully and believing what we know. It's a matter of listening to God's voice or instinct or however we describe it. But the truth is within us. We are born with it. And again, the details are sometimes very confusing and we don't know what the details are. But if something is a threat, if someone is dishonest, we know instantly. And if you spent time around animals, you know, they know and they did not go to college, any of them, but they are born with this ability and we have it as well. That's the first thing. Second, try Well, this is just advice aimed at me. Try not to talk so much. And I and especially men, this is a male thing. Not always just men, but some women talk too much for sure, but
I guess they do. So, it's everybody. I just know in myself, I have a tendency to talk too much. And try to let other people talk and actually care about what they're saying. They're fascinating. People are the only really interesting thing in this world. People are amazing. People will shock you every single time. What if you just sit and ask someone like, "How'd you get here? Where are you from? The stories they tell are like beyond belief. And I don't mean heads of state or famous generals or movie stars. I just mean like anybody like the random person next to you at dinner. Where are you from? Oh, I was born in Malawi and then we moved to Luxembourg and then I was a fireman in Idaho. And it's like what? Be curious because curiosity is the only way to learn about the world. And that's a wonderful, wonderful piece of advice. And I'm just going to close this by coming right back to the Real Estate Future Forum. You were a first-time visitor last year. You've returned to us. What is it that makes the Real Estate Future Forum such an unmissable event
because it's a window into the world.
It's like all these people come, there's like this new part of the world that's growing. I mean it's always had power inherently for because of the religious sites and then for the last 100 years had power because of the energy. Okay, that's been true my whole life. Now it has power or a kind of power or influence because it is open not just relative to what it used to be 15 years ago, 10 years ago, but relative to what the rest of the world is becoming. The rest of the world be is becoming less open, more aligned, more partisan. Even one of the most wonderful countries in the world, a country I truly love and have family from, Switzerland. One of my children lives in Switzerland. It's like that's an amazing country. Everyone's been there. They are now an aligned country and you can feel it and it's makes me sad. I hope they stop. Like the world needs places where other cultures, other nationalities, other interests can meet on a kind of on a kind of free zone, a kind of timeout where it's okay. You know, we don't agree, our governments don't agree, maybe our religions don't agree, our cultures don't agree. I mean, the first day I got here last year, I'm walking down the street and a guy in earlocks, Orthodox Jew with earlocks, walks right up to me. He's like, "Hey, what are you doing here?" He's American. I'm like, "What are you doing here?" I mean, I'd never been here before. It's Saudi Arabia. This guy turns out he was like, we had mutual friends. He's a great guy. He's like, "Oh, building a hotel." I was like, "I think you're like an Orthodox Jew from Brooklyn." He's like, "Yeah, I love it here." And then you run into all these other random people and it's like, "But we need the world needs places like that." And it has to have them
like the forum
and this is one of them right here. He was he was coming to this forum and I just thought, man, I love that.
I love that, too. I love that we've had you back on stage. I've loved our conversation. We could have kned for hours, I think. Could you please join me in showing your incredibly warm appreciation for Tucker Carlson? And I was so