Terrorist grooming gangs HUNTED by Sikh leader: Mohan Singh

They're not grooming gangs; these are gangs. What community are predominantly whipping our children? One of the most harrowing cases that we dealt with was a case in Slough of a 12-year-old girl. They gave her an idea: upset your parents; make your mom or dad really angry. They'll take you into foster care; we can see you all the time, and your parents can't do anything about it. Cut a long story short: one day, she went into the garage, picked up a hammer, and hit her mother over the head.

How many cases of a child have you actually been exposed to? Hundreds. And then this was a white girl, actually. She came out of school; her groomer—she didn't really want to listen to him anymore. One day, bang on her head; next thing she knew, she found herself in Scotland in a wh house, and she was plotting a terrorist attack on the streets of London. It's a 15-year-old girl; that's how dangerous this grooming process is.

Have you ever had thoughts or considerations of killing one of these [Music] rapists? I want to say a quick thank you to our sponsors, Gold Seal. I use their products every single day, and now I finally get to work with them. I use their products for anti-inflammatory, reduced anxiety, better sleep, and mental clarity. I'm going to put a link to their website in the description along with a 10% discount code for you to take advantage of. Go and have a look at their website; see if there's anything in there for you. I hope you enjoy this week's episode, and good elf Mohan. Thank you.

No preps. I fully appreciate you coming on; the great work that you do for the Seek Awareness Society, which we really are going to unpack, and we're going to be discussing grooming gangs, the process, the prey, the targets, and most importantly, how we can prevent the further abuse, sacrifice, of our children. This may be hard-hitting for a few people, but it's a message that needs to be heard, and it's just at the time I think that Labour have squashed, and people maybe have been forgetting that we are asking for a national public inquiry into the grooming gang. So I think this is perfect timing. So let's talk first and foremost about the Seek Awareness Society. Can you just—because you're the founder—so can you summarize and tell me all I need to know about that society, please?

Well, basically, we we started uh back in '97 because we were getting cases, and people were approaching us. Um, me being uh well versed in English and the Punjabi language, it was easy for me to talk to the elders in the community and also the the young people born in this country. So there was no problem with the language barrier talking to them, and we started doing sort of little workshops in um our local areas, wherever we could get a hall or a library or stuff like that. And as the sort of uh it grew, we went into the Guru—these are places of worship, Sikh places of worship—so it extended to say uh the West Midlands, and then slowly slowly slowly the whole of the UK. We were working in with within a year; within a year we were working, and then um many years later we were followed by the uh BBC for approximately a year because we helped this one 15-year-old girl whose uncle was a cameraman for the Panorama team. Now the Panorama team was the flagship program for the BBC, and because he was involved in the actual case itself, when the girl went missing for three days and we put all our resources in there to find her, bring her home, guide her, guide the family, and they the guy said, "This is this is too much to comprehend; how can a small bunch of people are doing doing all this um." So they he went to his team; said there's something sort of amazing going on. We set up meetings; we had about three months of meetings, and then uh bam, the the recording started, and uh I remember when it went out, actually September the 2nd uh 2014. It was on the same time on the other side; it was CI, and it beat Corey for um viewership; Coronation Street. Yeah, yeah, it beat it uh hands down. And then uh their BBC iPlayer crashed the next day, and because they put it on BBC World Service, it went out to the States, Canada, and then from there on we were known throughout sort of North America, Australia, everywhere. And then from a small charity that started in uh say in the suburbs of Birmingham, we were able to um you know go around the world um and be known around the world.

The charity—what is the charity predominantly known for? We set up uh for sexual abuse uh because these are subjects uh that within the community it was like a taboo subject, and you couldn't talk about it. So there's a lot of other subjects like mental health and domestic violence and stuff like that which we cover as well, but primarily it was set up for the whole grooming process because nobody understood what actual grooming is, and we set ourselves out to—so the word Sikh is is is our faith; awareness—it was a society set up to raise awareness of heinous crimes committed against young people. Okay, so there were Sikh victims very much like we've got young white British victims. Oh, 100%. Um, because you don't hear much about Sikh children being victims of grooming. True. Um, in the mainstream media, in the mainstream media you don't um and from um working with the Sikh community, we started working with the Hindu community and and other communities as the name and fame went out there. So we work with we we've still got the original name, but we work with all communities, and we had a spate of cases at that time which we thought we need to sort of highlight them and take them out to the community so that they can protect their children, protect their families, because it these were heinous crimes committed against um young children, and um within the Indian sub sub you know culture um honor is a big aspect, and because of the honor we call it is it because of the honor we didn't have people go to the police or go to the authority because then everybody will find out, and we had to work with like when we first started we had to work with sort of one hand tied behind our backs really more or less, and we were fighting the community to raise the subject. M uh where people thought, nah, it's not happening; it's not happening uh we're not hearing about it; you're not hearing about it because of the the the the whole honor aspect of things. Okay, so that's why it is. Yeah, and that also in the Hindu community as well, and and we worked with the Buddhists; we we we work with the Christian community; we we will work with anyone uh if there is a child being abused and that child approaches us or the family approaches us then we will um we will sort of drop everything, and a child is a child. There's a there's a very famous case actually uh it took place in uh Burton near Derby, and it was of a I think about three three white girls, and um these girls were groomed; these girls were being exploited, and the father of one of the girls found out, and he tried to educate his daughter in many ways, but she just wouldn't listen because when you're groomed your your your your thought is controlled by the other side, the the groomers, and then um he one day came across one of our YouTube videos, told the girls to watch it; they watched it, and then they went to the police, and that video was played in Derby Crown Court. This is the very reason I'm so glad that you're here today because we're going to share some telltale signs, and if this interview saves one person I'll be over the moon because this subject I mean there's a there's a long line of abuse, sexual violent abuse within my dad's side of the family, so I've seen the damage it causes firsthand; so unnecessary; it can be prevented. Before we go on to the the workshops that you do because that's going to be a real nice thing to unpack, although I say nice I mean educational and refreshing for people to think, hey, I needed this without realizing it, let's talk about the main perpetrators of these grooming gangs. So you've been doing this for many many years, so you've seen probably countless grooming gang cases. What community are predominantly ripping our children?

We got it from the Pakistani community um and that's to say because when we set up a helpline, I'm not I'm not saying other communities are doing it or not doing it; all the calls that we got, 98% from parents was reporting that to us, and then we would investigate the case and help the family and help the child. So I can only go on by the calls that we we got, and that was predominantly uh the Pakistani community. What do you think was such the big issue? Because it's only until now, and we're talking—I mean you know better than me—this has been going on for decades, and they were referred to—and it used to really push my buttons, and I imagine more so for you—the way they were described as Asian grooming gangs. Yeah, because if you just—I mean it suits the the media narrative and and and and governmental narrative. Now my argument regarding that has always been when—because I'm a football fan—yeah, and um when England went out abroad to play football in the early '70s and '80s and '90s, we had that problem of hooliganism, yeah, where they just have too much to drink and and they revolt if they've lost a match or something like that, but they were never referred to as European hooligans; they were referred to as English hooligans. So if you can differentiate from there; Asia is a massive continent; you know, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Indians—do you know why not with your findings because you've arrested these people; you know, there's you've got you've got the data; why ain't they named, shamed? And also if you know the perpetrators, then you can put the resources, governmental resources in there to sort out the problem because you've isolated uh the problem. I mean we had this problem with with West Midlands police when they would say, well, bring us the data, bring us the cases, but what we didn't know was they were sitting on data for 40 years when the Birmingham male you know the I don't know what you call that act where they keep certain things secret and they release them after 30 years or 35 years when they see fit. The Birmingham mail demanded it uh regarding the grooming and the way they marketed certain things was like the name; so the religion and the ethnicity was out and and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. The fourth column was the crime, and now you've got all that data; you tell me if you saw a Chinese name on it; you tell me if you saw a Korean name on it; you tell me if you saw a—what they were all the same names. So why are they asking us to produce data or information when they were really sitting on this information? And unfortunately it was throughout the country, so whether they were told by the paymasters that they can't do certain things or whether they're told by the politicians you can't really uh talk about this. There is a there is a the first time I came across this back in '93; it was a professor from um Aston University, and the government uh authorized this report into this kind of behavior; I think it took a two years to produce a report; was given to the government; the government then said take it back and take all the names out because it would give the nationality away; it would give the nationality away, and then I think that person uh said no, and that taxpayers' money was wasted; that report never saw the uh light, and that particular person, that professor, went over to uh New Zealand to start start his career; whether he was getting problems here I don't know.

It must be extremely—I mean it's frustrating and upsetting for me as a spectator; it must be absolutely devastating for a parent; it must anger you to think that this could have been, if not prevented, certainly reduced greatly if the truth was reported at the time when it happened. 200%. I mean if this report's coming out in '93 and I remember reading it, and it's talking about taxis; it's talking about kebab houses; it's talking about all the same stuff that we know, and this is happening in '93, and if you look at all the historical cases that have come come to light, whether it's the Rotherham or the Telford or the you know the Newcastles or the Keels, up Bradford, Oxford; these are all happened in 200 and late '90s. So just imagine that they had that information and acted on that information; they could have prevented literally thousands and thousands, and I mean even if you look at sexual assault or rep or or only 13% ever report rape, so 87% of the perpetrators get away with it because it's not reported, and then only 6% or 5% ever get convicted. So you just imagine what the real damage is. We're not talking about 1,400 children from Rotherham; we're not talking about a thousand children from uh Telford; we're not talking about 300 from Newcastle or 300 from—what's actually talking in their thousands, and there's some estimates that are saying that up to a million young girls, UK children, have been sexually abused by gangs. They're not grooming gangs; these are gangs; that's another phrase that seems to have been introduced into the mainstream, and that used to frustrate me. Grooming is part of the process, but essentially the act that takes place is—why on earth aren't we using those words? Maybe it would have got people's attention a lot sooner. Grooming is—it's far too mild a term. And why do you think it's taken a community of Sikhs to deal with a Pakistani problem? You see, cuz if it was my community, if it was going on in my community, I'd make damn sure it was me and my community dealing with it and crushing these rodents that are our children. Why is it taking a Sikh community rather than a Pakistani community?

We just couldn't sort of turn a blind eye to it because it was very damaging. You can't go to sleep when you hear this kind of thing; you can't you can't you know the the pictures, the the images of what that child's told you, what's happened to them, is replaying in your head; physically you're in bed; your eyes are closed, and then it's it's repeating, and then what do you think's happening to the parents, the mother, the father? It's not affecting the child; it's affecting the whole unit; it's messing with them big time. And so we thought, let's get out there; let's just raise awareness; let's educate the community to to to to look at the red flags, to to to see if we can prevent it from happening. So prevention is better than the cure; it's better dealing with that than the aftermath of um the damage that it does to a child, and not just to the child; it does damage to your um families. I remember in 2014, as the BBC were recording the the documentary, we had 18 girls born in this country who we had to send outside the country for their safety. There this there's one particular case; it sort of took place in London, and when we found out she was actually been made to sell herself in um King's Cross, and she was being sold there, and it was such a sick mindset that the younger the person, the more money they could make. And then I remember she'd done that for three to four months, and we she got in touch with us through a friend who knew of the organization, and uh we took her from London; we brought her into the West Midlands um and housed her there, and after about eight to three months of harmony counseling, her trauma counseling, she got confidence; she put something out on her Facebook—good on her—or or her Insta; the nine people that were controlling her in London came to a school to try and intimidate, to try and intimidate outside the school. We got the calls; we had to move very quickly, and then we thought there's no way in the UK this girl is safe, so we had to uh send her to to America. Uh, I took her out myself um and uh when the BBC were recording, we had a couple of girls in Texas uh one was in California uh a lot we had sent to uh Canada, and not long ago, about five years ago, six years ago, we had to send a send a young lady to Melbourne, and the whole system is is that sort of corrupt because this happened in Harrow up in London; the young girl we we we we break her away from from the group because now she's drug addicted; the police put her back into the same people's hands, and if it wasn't for a a a policeman with a bit of sense because we were ready to actually go in front of the police station and said, "These are the very groomers we're trying to save this girl from, and you you've placed the girl back there." And we were ready to after a big meeting that we were going to go outside the police station and just protest with in in our hundreds and how many we could get uh overnight; we had some calls; he says, "I'm dealing with it; where would you like this person to be?" So we gave them a location that this person would be safe; there kept her here for two weeks; didn't look really good, so we had to send her out to Melbourne, Australia, where she stayed two years and and for her safety and and getting it all out of her system; she's back in the country now; she's she's she's um she's great again. So the the whole ethos of of of of Seek Awareness Society is from victimhood to become survivors, and from survivors we become thrivers, and you know and and reach our best potential.

You mentioned these young girls being drugged, so what is the what's the full grooming process, and what are the telltale signs that parents need to be looking out for? Every case that we've dealt with, whether it's a a Sikh case, whether it's a Hindu case, whether it's a you know white girls' case, Caucasian case, it doesn't matter; it it there's a sort of a six-step process. There: first of all, the target; you target somebody; then you make contact with that person; that's the second stage; third stage is gaining their trust; fourth stage is isolation; fifth stage is sexualization; and the sixth stage is total control. I always say when you go past the third one, you've lost your child, right? And then when we come back to target, they target a vulnerability. You might be there might be a child of low self-esteem; you might be a child of a dysfunctional family unit; you might be a child in care; you might you there might be a child who's just lost her grandfather or granddad, and she might be grieving; they will seek a vulnerability, and that vulnerability then is going to be exploited; target you know you target the person; whatever's lacking in their life you're sort of giving it. So if somebody's lacking love, that will be given in abundance; that's the lover boy model, right? Right. If somebody's lacking in sort of uh material goods, they would be given; if somebody lacks appreciation at home or they will be appreciated; it's like they want to bypass your head and go straight to the heart, cuz the heart doesn't do any thinking, but once they're in there, it doesn't matter what you're saying; that's not registering, and once they've targeted it, they'll gain your trust and fulfill your needs, and then the abuse starts after once they've got you totally in control; once they've isolated you; once they've isolated you; one of the most harrowing cases that we dealt with was a case in Slough of a 12-year-old girl. Now she was from a dysfunctional family; she um got into the hands of a groomer; there's about five or six different people; the parents are a bit strict; they wouldn't let her out; they wouldn't let her out, so they've targeted her; they've targeted the vulnerability; they've given her all they want; the little telephones, the the the whatever she wanted; make her feel really great, and then they say, "We want to see more of you, but your parents are not allowing you to go out the house; you're only 12 years old." And they gave her an idea: upset your parents; make your mom or dad really angry. So when they slap you or they chastise you in a way, all you need to do is pick up the phone to Childline and um get the authorities involved; they'll take you into foster care, and we can see you all the time, and your parents can't do anything about it. This girl tried for three weeks, four weeks; the mother was a calm lady; cut a long story short: one day she went into the garage, went into her dad's toolbox, picked up a hammer; I hit her mother over the head. Wow. Yeah, and we were dealing with that; I know the girl now is in somewhere in Wales, looked after. Yeah, the isolation is all about sort of isolation will be from your family; isolation will be from your very friends' network because they're the people can see change in your behavior, so they want to get you away from all these people; they also want to turn these children against the parents; that's that's the isolation process; that is really really sinister. I mean you've got to really really brainwash somebody to get a child to hit their mother over the head with a hammer. Y wow. And and and again I I know I know we're talking about sexual grooming, but the same process is used if you want to create a terrorist; it's the same process; it's the grooming; once you get control over somebody's thought process, you've got control over the body. I mean we had a harrowing case; it came in the papers um it's probably going back about four or five years; 15-year-old girl runs away from home from um Coventry um found after three weeks, but she's converted to to Islam okay by somebody sitting in Egypt on the internet, and then even before we start any dialogue, her auntie phoned us up; even before we started any dialogue with her, we thought we'd give it a a week's rest, you know, that they get a bit comfortable back home and everything like that; the uh terrorist police, the Met terrorist police, surrounded her house, picked her up, took her to London, and she was plotting a terrorist attack on the streets of London. It's a 15-year-old girl, and the grooming process got to her, and she was plotting a terrorist attack; that's how dangerous this grooming process is, and that's why it's imperative that every parent knows about the the whole process, and that's why we hold uh at the Sikh Society we hold 10-week courses just for parents, so we spend an hour every every every week over 10 weeks just so that the parents can get the whole kitten kaboodle, the whole the whole picture of of the whole grooming process and what to do because sometimes uh if we find out something's wrong, we can make the situation even worse if we don't know how to handle it. So from A to Z, we we'll give them all the tools they need. Uh, when we first started, obviously it was street grooming outside schools and stuff like that. Uh, there was a video we put up; I remember a young lady, and this was a white girl actually um come out of school; her groomer—she she was with him for three, four weeks; the boyfriend, girlfriend model; she didn't really want to listen to him anymore. One day she had um a bang on her head; next thing she knew she found herself in Scotland in a wh house, pimped out.

Pimped out. What part does Islam play in all of this? I couldn't answer that one um but I know that individually there are sick sick people out there, and I I don't want to go into the faith too much, but sick people and and where they get these ideas from is they are treat they are treating them as subhuman, as animals. And here you might be aware of the case in um Oxford which ended up in um the Old Bailey; the Oxford grooming gang; I don't know if you you're aware of it, but it was more of a Somalian gang; the leader was the leader was called Muhammad Kur; I think the girl was 11 years old, and this was said in court that she was stripped naked; she was going to be put; there was they were going to put paraffin over her and and and the matches were lit; the girl was so terrified; you got seven or eight people in the room; she's stripped naked with paraffin over her; they were going to light her unless she did certain things, and then they bent her over; took her hairpin out; molded it into an M; heated it up, and then branded the girl; that you belong to us now; we do that to animals; that came out in court in the Old Bailey. And what did the M stand for? Muhammad Kur; I'm the boss; I'm the owner.

How has this been allowed to go on for so long in your opinion? Who's to blame for this? I think everyone who's in authority, whether local councils; I mean we we we we've all gone through the J report, and that would probably be a fair reflection of what's happening in every city, even though that's only about Rotherham. Um, I would say that uh failings within the council, failings within the police force, failings; politicians um the politicians are all about votes; the vote bank; not to not to not to disrupt their own bank. So you're you're an MP; you're all right; it doesn't matter what's happening, and and uh yeah, it's just I would say from everyone who who was in authority to do something, whether these were the crisis um centers or or the council or they're they're all to blame um but yeah, you you'll get the same pattern in every every every city; in every city there's a failure where people were reporting these crimes, and it was just said, well, you got yourself into it; we don't have to waste our resources getting you out of it, and these were children. And just imagine that you are—there's a 13, 11-year-old or 12-year-old white girl sitting with an Asian man, and what is a 13-year-old girl sitting uh doing there? Now we had it; we we we had it particularly difficult because if you see an Asian girl with Asian men, you might think it's their daughter or their niece or their family friend, but come off it; if you're seeing a white girl sitting in a car and there's four other people there, and you just ticked them off, and the girls complained about them, and you're still not doing anything about it. I I I think there should be a massive inquiry into this, and inquiry shouldn't have any boundaries. Okay, so when we go into this choir inquiry, it's not about just about sort of this radius and this rate; it should be open, and whatever the findings should be brought to the to the British public, and that's the only way that I think that we will be able to put it to bed when the ultimate truth comes out.

What do you think the ultimate truth is? The ultimate truth is massive failures from government after government, and you do you think that's through fear of being considered racist? Fear of that, and also I mean you you you know there could be other factors there; votes; even like dealing with other countries financially, you know, business-wise and everything; if you're tarnishing somebody, then they might react in a negative way and not give you the businesses and stuff like that. So I don't know what play what what plays a a major part in this, but what what really baffles me is uh you've allowed these children to be damaged, and when I say damaged, damaged, and then you've got to put the resources into into fixing them, and you're allowing that to happen, and you've turned a blind eye to it, and anybody who spoke about it is considered right-wing now; right-wing 70 years ago would be if you supported Mussolini or um or or Hitler; you'd be considered right-wing, but you're considered right-wing now when you're trying to protect your daughters, and that's where I sometimes say if you want to call me right, then that's okay, because at the end of the day uh I will protect; I will go out for…

My daughters and my and the children—term, yeah—these these textbook terms. They're set to silence: far-right, racist, you're radical, you're a bigot, you're a fascist. And I think all of those words have now lost their flavor, because it's more important to preserve the innocence of children. And for me personally—call me what you like—I will not stand by and stay silent, because silence is compliance, in my opinion. Well, they they, you know, you call them grooming gangs, or they're actually terrorists, because they've instilled so much terror in these young, young children. Now, how is a a young 11-year-old, 12-year-old, 13-year-old, how to deal with blackmail or terror or something? They're kids; they don't know how to react. They they've not stepped into the the world; they they ain't got all the tools, so they're so easy to control.

You seem like a very calm—well, you are a very calm uh, man, and you're a very nice energy to be around. I want to slip that in there here, because it's very difficult for people to feel the atmosphere when they're looking through YouTube, but you're a real nice energy to be around. But with that said, have you ever had thoughts or considerations of killing one of these? Do you know what I mean? The the negative thoughts that go into your mind are immense; you're only human. When you get these thoughts, but then you know the the the bigger picture, and you you have to sort of step back. And that's why, when you're dealing with these things, your emotions—if you're em—if you emotionally get involved, you compromise the situation. You're not going to be any good for the family or the children or the community; you're not going to be good for yourself either. So you you know, you do have thoughts, you know, where you want to do hurt someone, but then you have to step back and think, no. And these thoughts would probably come more in the early days uh, when you started dealing with these things, and slowly, slowly—because you've virtually heard everything in the book, nothing surprises you now—but still, I mean, just imagine: you get a call 11:00 at night, and your office is ringing you, and you know, can you talk to this family? And then and and then you can't go to sleep, and you can't go to sleep for a couple of days sometimes. You you have to physically switch your phone off for two days and don't want to know the world, and then you say, well, that's not the right thing; I've got to get back out there and and do that. It it affects you.

I was going to say, affect you. Has it affected your mental health? Yeah, because you have to do your own—you know, there's days when you just you know, just go and sit in the local woods and just just meditate, um, just just do whatever sort of works for you. Um, working works for me, um, going to the gym—you you you get your aggression out—that works for you. So whatever works for the individual, do it; don't let it fester inside you, because it will do you damage.

And how many cases of child rape have you actually been exposed to? Hundreds. Hundreds. That is so sad to hear, for so many reasons. I tell you some of them—I mean, some of them really stick in your mind. They had like, in that particular case, they would have every aspect in that particular case, and one was in Leicester in 2013. And I remember, you know, this this awareness thing is really good. I was at a university at uh, Leicester University, doing a talk on these kind of things, and it was open to the public, and not just the students. And I remember it was a Tuesday night, and I got approached by a father afterwards, and he says, "I don't know what's happening with my daughter, but uh, she's sort of gone downhill. CAMS is involved; everybody's involved—that the authorities that need to be involved, they're all involved—but we're not getting through to her." It's Tuesday night, so I thought, "Okay, fine, my schedule's pretty tight; I'll I'll come down your place on Saturday." So I went down their house on Saturday, Leicester. I sat with the girl for 15, 20 minutes, and she started opening up to me—whether she looked at me as one one from the community, part of the community, whether she liked the energy or whatever it was—uh, she opened up, and wow, sort of shook me. She was she was 15, looked like a 12-year-old, damaged girl, because she uh, I think when she was six or seven, her best friend had uh, died; she never got any therapy for it, so she was self-harming herself and everything like that. I read her diaries afterward, and she started talking to me about one guy and two guys and how um, they would pile her with vodka, uh, take her out from college at 12:00 lunchtime—school, sorry—and then uh, before 4:00, so she goes home at the right time, so the parents don't find out. So she would be abused at little different um, hotels, parks, back of cars, for four months. And then we um, there was a private investigator hired to follow the girl uh, so wherever they took her—to hotels and homes and houses and everything—and data was compiled, and then we had a high-level meeting with um, with the Leicester police and also the local council who dealt with the sexual grooming side. A a report was given to them, so basically the work was done for them.

Do you get much support from the police? They think you're doing the policing for them, and they don't like that. So do you get some backlash? Yeah, you get backlash. Yes. What kind? Because they they they don't want you to do that; they don't want to do it themselves, and they don't want you to do it. What really got got to me was u, we had to take this girl out of Leicester for her safety; took her to East London. And the day we were going to bring her back for the interview, the police informed us that can you—the girl said she would only go to the police station if I'm there, cuz she needed that sort of confidence. So I had been supporting her up to then, and uh, they picked her up at the motorway calf, I think—Watford Gap or something—took her to Leicester, and we followed the car; they wouldn't allow us anywhere near the girl, and and we're the ones that have brought the case and given them all the information, cuz Leicester police didn't know there was a case. So we've given the case, and from day one the girl is trusting us; she wants us there; they separate us; they they say, "You can't be a part of it; uh, stay away; it's our case now." And the girl then goes quiet again; lost her support network; lost her support network. Most cases, if you if you look at it, they haven't gone to the police; they've gone to charities, people they think genuinely care. I think there's a failure in the system where now people are thinking that the that the police is a failure, so that the trust in that is is not there; that really needs to be bought back somehow.

Yeah, it sort of it's got to come from the top, um, but maybe this investigation into this—a national inquiry into this—can prompt something like that, because whatever was prompted in in the J report, and there were certain things that needed to be done, none of it's been activated. What's the point of doing it? What's what's what's the point of doing something like that? And this is this is the thing that really frustrates me is that these left-leaning lunatics, when people are calling for a national public inquiry, you get the people on the left saying, "There's already been an inquiry." That was just for Rotherham. Exactly. We need a national—you need a national—because if it's just happened in Rotherham, then that's suffices. Okay, you've got it in Newcastle; you've got it in Carlisle; you've got it down Bristol; you you've got it in Greater Manchester; you've got it in London; you've got it in the West Midlands; you know, we're all part of that um, part of mainland Britain, so it needs a national inquiry, you know, Scotland, everybody involved, then we can put it to bed and say, "Yeah, this is what's come out, and this is what needs to be done, and every government needs to needs to put their foot there." The only changes I've seen is the sentencing; the sentencing has gone stronger and stronger and stronger.

Well, that's one good thing we can take from this. Oh yes, 100%, because um, I remember uh, there was a very high-profile case in Leeds; this was the Huddersfield gang. And I I was so involved in that because um, and there there was 22 people in that group of people. These are not gangs; these are groups; these are—they're not even friends; they're relatives; they know each other, right? And one of the guys who was portrayed to be the leader was from a Sikh background; I was very intrigued by that. Also, we had cases in 2012 from Huddersfield that we were helping, and I remember going to court in um, Leeds, and a certain high-profile figure was arrested half an hour before I got there, and um, I went in, and I went in that day because um, the jury had gone out, and I wanted—I thought the jury might come in that day so I can hear the verdicts and all that. And um, sitting in court uh, after a couple of hours—I don't know what you called them—but there was a clerk from the court says um, "If if we can ask you to sort of leave," and I said, "On what grounds? Have I broken any law?" I had three girls with me, by the way, so it's me and three girls. Uh, no, the um, the barristers of the groomers have pointed out, and it's making the groomers uncomfortable. I said, "If I've broken the court's law, I'd walk out; it's not a problem; you tell me a law that I've broken. If they feel uncomfortable, it might be for the things they've done, not not because of me." M, and then they came back and they says, "You can sit here all day, but no verdict's coming in today; we're guaranteeing you that." And then I left, and and and and that guy was sentenced to 31 years or 30 years or life, cuz there was three cases, cuz the it was it was a massive case, and um, so sentencing has gone up. If you look at 2004, 2005, people just get a slap on their hands—seven years, six years—and now it's like 18, 20 years plus, so which is a plus sign; it's a small step in the right direction.

Have you ever come under attack by any of these gangs? Verbally? All the time. Physically? No, no, not physically. Verbally? 100%. Threats? Yeah, you get all—you get—you get all that; that's that's what I mean. Verbally? Are they threats to be taken seriously? Yeah, I mean, you got to be on your guard all the time, um, you know, you got to be in in the nature of the work that you're in, um, you can't just ignore something like that, and you have to be very careful when you get a phone call, if or you're going to meet somebody in the middle of the night, or or there's a girl crying on the other side of the phone—is that a trap? Is that Trump? Somebody trying to set you up and get you out there or get the team out there? You know what I mean? Are you a target? I'm a target in the sense that the the people disagree and say it's not just one community, okay, and and I quite agree with with with with with that in the sense that we live—we live in Britain; we we live in a a predominantly white country—you know, 75% of the public's white—so you're going to get more crime within the white community. And when you when you look at it statistically, one-on-one crime of abuse might—you're going to get it more in the white community—but when it's group related, so it's different models. One-on-one, you might be using that child for your own sexual gratification, and you're not passing it on to other people, or you're not earning money from it, or you're not putting into prostitutes; you're using it for your own gratification. Here, here the other model is you you you've you've gone in, you've done all the love bombing, you've got control of the—now that child's been trafficked around the country, and you're making money out of it; you're you're you're you're making whatever you whatever they're doing with that child, so it's a different model now. I remember even even um, the Quilliam report, and these are two two Muslim guys um, and I and reading their report or reading some comments that they made in that report, they says, "When we started this this report, we wanted to put this end to this myth that it's just one community." After the report, it says, "We we try to do it, but we couldn't; it's 84%." So even even their own people are saying that, you know, so how can the Muslim community help put a stop to this um, by really, you know, because there are there there are a lot that are religious people; there are a lot lot of people uh, with morals, values. We're not saying that everyone is a is a bad apple; we're saying there's a there's a a small percentage that are very very extreme, right, um, and and they need to sort of put this out and and raise the education and and and amongst um, their own um, people, cuz they have access to them, you know, they have access to people—they in the mosques, in in the centers—and they should be really talking about it more and more.

Are you welcomed into churches and mosques to speak? Well, I've been involved in—I mean, I'm I'm invited into churches, um, but I've never done it. Uh, I've I've only actually went ever into a mosque um, I think there's one in—it's the oldest mosque in Europe; it's not far from where we are right now, actually. And um, we had a a a good debate with the the the person who was the head priest—say the Malby, they call him—and we had a a dialogue uh, with him over uh, a good probably couple of hours with him and his wife there, and they were very sort of understanding. We've had uh, we've been on debates with uh, like um, I remember once in Aston University, there was a debate, and um, I think uh, there was a a keynote speaker—Shabir Ali, Dr. Shabir Ali from Canada—he was on the panel; we were sitting down, and um, he—that was towards 2014—when he said, "Yeah, I did a lecture at um, in Canada regarding this," and then my point—to my question to him is, "You think that one lecture is going to survive? Do you think that one lecture is going to sort of heal and deal with all the problem?" Yeah, respect and tolerance and everything like that needs to be drummed in. So I I think yeah, if if if the if the community itself felt it's like—I I would say this: we within our community, in the Punjabi community, we have problems; we we we have alcohol abuse, okay? That doesn't stop us from going into gurdwaras and temples and saying, "Guys, alcohol is bad," because we're educating our own community.

So you're happy to call out your own community? Oh, 100%. Look um, how would you deal with a secretist? Easy: in the same way, deal with another rapist. A rapist is a rapist. And uh, there was a very high-profile person—it's going back two years ago, two two years to November, okay? And I got wind of him in uh, August that he's doing something very very dodgy, and this was two young Sikh boys who sort of informed me, and they came—now I was going over to North America, and I was going to be out for for for about five weeks; there was a wedding, and there was a case up there that I needed to deal with; it had had gone to court as well, so I was going to support the the victim and also attend the wedding. And I told these guys, "Look, you've got all the Sikh awareness resources; go for it." And they said, "No, we're not doing it without you, cuz this guy's a big fish within the community, and nobody's going to take us seriously; they're young." So I said, "Yeah, well, you'll have to wait four, five weeks." And prior to that, I says, "Look, what we'll do is we'll we'll put a private detective on him and follow him and see what else we can dig out of him." Well, we got all the information out, and you know, when you've been out the country for about five, six weeks, it's um, you got quite a backlog of work as well to do, and and it was November time that we thought, okay, we need to really now go for this guy um, and I think there was about 30 of us; we had to surround it—surround the place—so he doesn't get out. Um, he was doing a talk at that time inside the the gurdwara. We says, "We need a word with you." Came; we showed him, you know, all the videos that we had; we turned them into still pictures—like, "Is that you? Is that you? Is that you? Is that you?" And he was denying it for a bit, and he says, at the end, within half an hour—and I won't like to say what what happened afterwards—um, but yeah uh, and then the next day the news throughout—not just uh, the UK, but it was all over Indian media as well—all—when I say all over, it was all over—because he was a big fish. So if somebody is doing something not so good—these kind of heinous crimes—what really—what really sort of hurt me was one of the one of the victims was mixed race, so she was white, and she had a a a Sikh dad, right, and a white mother. I like to call them hybrids these days. You got to be careful; you got to be careful; uh, that's just a joke, by the way. Um, and she had lost her grandparents like in in the space of two to three weeks; she had lost her, and she was trying to find herself, so her mom's background is obviously Christian, and her father's background, so she's trying to just find herself, and she ends up in this place up in Small Heath in Birmingham, and and and again, her vulnerability is exploited—textbook, textbook—you know, she's missing something; there's a big chunk of her missing; there's a vacuum in there, and they sort of get hold of her. And according to her—because I seen—I I I went to a place in Leeds where she was—I think they took her in because it's mental hospital up there—and I went to visit her there to get her side of the sort of story, and she was by two people—one being him—and um, that that one really sort of moved me, the the level of abuse they did to her, and um, and and the other ones were adults who were groomed—adult women that were groomed, married women that were groomed—so he had the whole sort of um, kitten kaboodle on this one. And um, the person who's being groomed—who thinks that someone loves her—doesn't know that they've been groomed, so why would they go to the police and report on their lover? It's only the third party that can see, and we were always pushing for law that if a third party spots—whether it's like some rape crime center or a charity and all that—and whether you don't have the the victim, and he's not reporting it, at least you can keep an eye out, sort of thing. M, and that's what we always wanted, so that if the victim doesn't report it, if somebody else is reporting it, at least that group of people can be monitored and see what's happening, and then cases can be put put against them. And I think it happened once in the West Midlands where a charity reported these people, and they were they weren't sentenced, but they were they they couldn't be with children under 16 on their own or something like that. And yeah, this was a very high-profile case, and and and then the whole Indian media picked it up, and my voice was—every time you open the phone, somebody sends you a video, a clip, and it's your voice on it—oh god, you know what I mean? It's just crazy; just went crazy for about um uh, two months. And and and yeah, we we've we've tackled our own as well; we'll tackle anyone who's who's—Yeah, no one's exempt.

Massive, massive respect for that. So there's a few more—just a few more things I want to touch base on with you. So you've experienced trafficking, grooming—what about what about loss of life? Any children been murdered in the end that you've had to deal with the families? I know one um, committed suicide; jumped off a bridge cuz she couldn't handle what had happened to her, so I would I would put that loss of life to the groomers, because it was them messing with her, which she couldn't handle, and she took her life. And um, there was another young lady—so we've we've sort of—she was found in the south, near the Dover cliffs; she just jumped off. There's so many layers to this depravity; it gets worse and worse and worse. Yeah, needs to be tackled. Yeah, it's not me pushing you off a cliff or you know, pushing you out of a running car, but it's the scenario where they've loaded the gun, and somebody else shoots it. You've you've messed with their head; now they can't think critically or clear or what's—and they can't handle life; they've just um, they've ended it; they've ended it. You know, we always think it will never happen to us, uh, and I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure there's so many families and parents that think they've you know, they've they've got their house in order, uh, and it'll never happen to them, but the fact that we've had over a million children raped in the UK by these gangs, we know that—well, it does sadly happen to people.

What would you say to any parent watching this now with with a young child—be it boy or girl—what would what would you tell them to watch out for? I will I I will say that um, evil exists, and just you know, just don't look at—maybe in your own people you hang out with—but evil exists, so that give your give your child the best tools for when they're inside and outside the house, because the only thing that's going to remain with the child—we can't be with the child 24/7—yeah, the only thing that's with the child is this, and if this is programmed to know what is right and wrong, to know when you're in danger, you've got that better chance of surviving or not getting caught in the in the whole process of things. So I I do get a lot of parents saying, "I saved your number because I I I I heard you speech uh, at such and such a gurdwara, such and such town; I just took it down, never never thinking I don't need your number," but that could be five years later, saying, "Boom, can you can you come down? It's happened to my niece, or you know, my my—" I mean, happens to boys as well, uh, but um, I think boys find it very very hard to report. Mhm. And reporting to us is is is really really—since the awareness campaign, you know, generation after generation, I think um, we're getting a lot of phone calls now—not where they say the child's left home and we don't know where the child is—in the sense that we're looking at some of the red flags that you pointed out, and we're finding it in our child—"Can you get some of your team members there, talk to the talk to us or talk to the child or can you—" So we're getting that now, um, whereas I I I I do believe that the education is kicked into a positive uh, way.

My final question, so that we can end this uh, very dark conversation on a bit of a high: there's always been a great relationship between Britain and the Sikh community. Mhm. Why is that? It goes back in the times of the British Raj; it goes—I mean, I think Britain itself ruled over say India for about 250 years; it ruled over Punjab for only about a hundred years. And knowing the strengths of of of the of the Sikhs and Punjab, and um, I I I think it just as a—this is this is why there was a lot of migration to say the UK is because there was an already an understanding of cultures and everything like that, and um, I think I think it it sort of makes it even stronger. Because wherever Sikhs are gone around the world, they've they have this ethos of of of honest living; they don't live off the state; they work hard; they and they also put a lot in to wherever they are. I mean, there was something on the BBC, probably about four or five years—as a community—very small; we're probably about 600,000 in in the whole of the equation of 70 million in this country, but we're the biggest do uh uh, donors. So you know, it's all—wherever you are, you make that place as your home, and and and you would want your home to function properly, you know, and and I think that comes out, um, but I mean, even if you look at say um uh, COVID time—every city—who were the food banks run by the Sikhs? They were they were they they put their lives in danger by putting masks on and putting food out on the road, so people who couldn't afford the food or couldn't—what's—they were they were coming out, and this happens in every city every week anyway, and not just in England; it was happening in America; it was happening in Australia; it was happening in uh, everywhere. So the very basis of Sikhi is giving back to uh, society and and where you live and uh, because we believe that everybody are one. M, our whole scripture starts with the one—that we're all one—and um, and as that as that oneness, we must all work together as well, and um, if there's any difficulties, iron them out, but still um, give your best all the time, and I think that's what the community's done. And you know, when our forefathers came, they didn't know—because because the UK ruled—they didn't know Germany, or they didn't know Europe as such; it was—everybody wanted to be in in in the UK. And um, I just think it's um, if you're honest with yourself, you can make a go of it anywhere.

Yeah, massive respect for that. And I'm going to put your social media links and your website link in the description, uh, but where can people find you mainly? Well, they can find us on all the social media—on on the Facebooks, on the um, SAS—um, just you just have to put the um, SAS—and that's not the Special Armed Services, but the Sikh Awareness—you may as well be—you may as well be. Yeah, so you can find us on the social medias, the YouTubes, and everything um, because of the organization is is is um, not that big, so we're probably not that great on social media, because we prefer at grassroots level just helping out and helping out. But yeah, you can find us all over the place. I mean, you can go into any gurdwara in the UK and say, "Can we have Sikh Awareness Society number?" And they will. And we're also the the whole society has been funded by ordinary people, so it's the funds from the community that keeps us going, so um, shout out to them. Yeah, because uh, again, you know, mainly Sikh sponsors, but they're not they're not telling us, "You can't use it for a white girl or or a black girl or or a or a Hindu girl," you know, and and and that's that's beautiful, because we can use that money to to help anyone. And if anybody wanted these awareness programs or these parental courses or whatever, we're ready to put them out anywhere. And when we help somebody, there is no cost; there is no cost. Our biggest cost is probably travel expenses and and paying for professional helps afterwards, but um, and we also—it's not just—it's not just about sort of um, helping someone and highlighting a case and then making a video on it; we will help the...

Person, we will take you to the hospitals. We will take you to report it to the police, and we will be there in court with you, whether it's a two-week course or whether it's a four-week course. So from A to Zed, from the time that person, the young person, gets in contact with us until it's the end, whether it's a court case or whatever the other thing is.

People that we've helped 20 years ago still have access to us. It's not like, you know, the system here, when if you have a counselor or a trauma counselor and you've got them for eight sessions or 10 sessions, these people have—they might be around the world, they might have migrated—and if they're having a bad day, they'll ring you up, and uh, they still have access, access to us. So, um, just one big family, yeah.

And massive respect. You've got my full support. I'd like to say to people at home watching or listening, please do like and subscribe to this channel, uh, and thank you for for listening to the to the full interview. And I and I ask people to like and subscribe because the bigger the channel, uh, the better the guest, the bigger the story, and I get to sit opposite men like you that can really make a difference, and my platform plays a part, and I'm really, really proud of that. And I could have spoken to you all day long, and I look forward to the next time we meet, and I'll be cheering you on, uh, but for today, all I can do is is thank you profusely. Uh, you're an excellent man.

Thank you. Thank you. No problems. And I'd like to say, you know, like and subscribe. The bigger the platform, the more people you reach, and the more people you reach, you're spreading the net out far and wide, and you'll catch more people falling through it. So this is all about, um, saving people 100%. Get it off my hand. Thank you, brother. Thank you very much. Cheers.