Transcription
Why yes, he was not worthy of me, and I should be very confident that if I had worked hard, then it's okay, we will try once again, and all of that. When you start accepting things, it becomes easier to look at it practically. Now, if I say that we need to keep emotions aside and move ahead with practicality, it was not that I was focusing and studying. It was not that I was crying all day. But I was trying myself to be in the state I was. Those hurt some 10 to 12 hours of study in which I prioritized NCERT. Prioritized previous year questions, and current affairs. You have to wake up daily at a fixed time. Those four things have to be done daily in the day. Books have been read a lot, but removing them and putting new ones will take time now. The building is quite old. It will take time to demolish it and build a new one now. [Music] Hello everyone. Today we have with us All India Rank One Shakti Dubey. And well, after listening to her name, the first name which came to my mind was of a famous revolutionary, Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose, and his two famous quotes. That is, the required tremendous will and tremendous perseverance to succeed. And the second one was that the youth of a nation are actually the trustees of tomorrow. And well, she has literally epitomized that. Welcome, Shakti. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you for having me here. So, let's begin with your background. You are from Prayagraj, and the city of Prayagraj has like a great cultural identity and great educational legacy to it. So, please tell me some experiences of growing up in the city which actually inspired you that maybe this is a path of civil services that you should take. If I talk about my journey specifically, per se. The idea of UPSC was inculcated by my father. He is into police services. He is into UP Police. So, the idea came from there. Being and brought up like in Prayagraj itself, I did my graduation from the University of Allahabad, which was once known as the factory of civil servants. So, that idea was even there. But back then, what I thought was, you know, to get into the science stream, going for PhD or maybe going for medical. Then I had not thought so much about UPSC. But initially, when I moved ahead and I started researching about the job profile, I started with social media, we know, we started getting to know about the toppers, their journeys. So, all of that combined has inspired me to move towards UPSC. So, when was the first time that you thought that, you know, you should be a civil servant? I remember, I think fifth or sixth class, when Dad came to home once because he was a constable, he had to interact with, you know, these IPS officers on a very regular basis. So, he used to come back home and one day he says, he said me, he told me that there is an IPS officer who comes, and he was very much inspired by them. So, he used to talk about him a lot. And then he said that I want you all to get into this service, sometime, and before I retire, so that I can also come and, you know, I will just salute and say Jai Hind to you before I retire from the service. So, I was very small back then, and that, you know, passion that okay, Papa has such a dream, so that has to be done. That came. But with time, when you move ahead, I think that practicality comes in life. So, in 10th, when you move, so now you have to choose a stream, what to do? At that time, Humanities was not offered as an option, as an option in my school. So, I went with PCB, Physics, Chemistry, Biology. And then came the dream of a doctor, that I want to get into medical stream. I want to become a doctor. And but that was the thing, that at that time, coaching was not so much. Kota was the only place where we could all get that. So, at that time, since we were just 12th pass out. Papa did not want to send us there. So, I think all of that was happening for one purpose. Now, when I look back. But then I gave it through self-preparation, and I got BDS. And since I was not interested in going for dental service, I carried on with my bachelor's. So, you mentioned your father is in UP Police, and we all know that police is a very challenging and very demanding job, and big, you know, responsibilities are also shared in a very invisible manner by the family of that policeman. And your father must have also, you know, narrated his experiences. So, therefore, building more upon that, your father's job, what perspective did it give you of public service, that if you ever become a civil servant in the future, how would you approach public service and governance, how did a perspective develop? Was there any influence? If I talk specifically about COVID-19, I remember my dad being on like duty all day long because they had to make sure that if there were proper lockdown rules, they are no, not much crowd or people not accumulating at one place. That was a time we were very scared of sending him out of home. Because that fear that maybe he might encounter infection, then he is the one who was like, he is the backbone of the family. So, all of that has remained. But still, when Dad used to come back, and he said it was then he used to come and explain it to us that if you keep fearing and sitting at home, then how do we fulfill this service that, like, we owe to the nation. So, he used to come home, explain it to us. Like we had a proper, you know, quarantine thing that Dad used to stay in a separate room, and we used to talk through windows. We were not allowed in the rooms. And he used to just tell us that have faith on God, because I am doing the service that I should have done. And if I am doing and approaching it with honesty, I know nothing will happen. And that's what happened. Like when COVID passed, now when we sit back and talk, so he gives us an example that it was a time, the infection was spreading very badly, but we kept the same precautions, and we were true to my service. See, God rewarded me that way. So, always remember this thing that when you are getting into services, sometimes it can happen that you might be at risk, but that should not stop you from, you know, stepping ahead. So, can we say that Mom and Dad both, they did not give up on the people, and from that logically, it can be concluded that they did not give up on you? So, you went through five attempts, right? So, therefore, there must have been big support of your parents, your family. So, please tell us that how, through the tough moments of this long journey of five years, which were the weak moments, and how did your family, you know, play an important role for this? If I talk about father, as you told, he is in UP Police, and I think those who know about police jobs, they know there is no fixed shift. There is no fixed number of working hours. We don't have weekends. We don't celebrate festivals with Papa. Papa is always on duty. It's Holi, Papa is not at home. It's Diwali, Papa is not at home. So, this is one thing that has always been there, that proper time to stay and enjoy time with them. That has been very less. And father was most of the time outside only. But then comes the role of my Mom, who has never like let us feel alone or never let us feel like that. Even she was working just twice the work she should have done. So, if Papa is not at home, then even the responsibilities of getting our, you know, books, household items, books, copies, stationery for reading, for everything, she was there, taking care of us, like all of that. So, Mom and Dad's combined role, that is also, I think, a kind of motivated me because they were never like, there is, they are facing some problem. That never reached us that they are having any problem. But even despite being outside the home, and she being a housewife, she being at home, she has set an example for us that dreams are your own, like, you know, personal thing. You dream, and to fulfill it, whatever is needed, if you are giving 100%, then you will achieve that. And Mom's thing was that whatever you do, I am always standing and supporting you. In this 5-year journey, I think our parents have heard more than us. 90% of the things did not even reach us. Be it getting us married. Be it not sending us in, you know, metropolitan cities like Delhi and like allowing us to just stay at home and all of that. But that was their confidence that I know what you are doing, and I know that you will go through. So, that thing of theirs has remained. If I talk about UPSC, per se, so in the first three attempts when it did not happen, so for two attempts, as I was working by that time, so I probably did not feel that bad. Then I thought that let's give one attempt with proper preparation. And that 2022 attempt, and I failed. That was a time. My Mom again came and told me one thing that be true to yourself. If even now you feel that there is no loophole in your preparation, there is nothing to improve, then leave UPSC and move ahead. But still, if you think there is something you can work upon, then talk to yourself properly and get through that. So, then I shortlisted things that okay, I have not looked at previous year questions properly. Maybe now, my book list is too much, which I am not able to revise properly. So, when I worked on these things myself, and in the 2023 attempt, finally, I could make it. But then again, there was that dip in the journey, that the result came, final, and I was not in the list by 12 marks. A very, you know, bad phase that I don't want to recall right now. But I will just share an incident that whenever the result comes, Papa is mostly in the office, and his office is some 25-30 km away from home. He goes by bike, drives. And results usually come in summers. So, last year, the result came on April 16th, and like the prelims result, when I was failing or whatever, and he used to call, in that scorching heat, he used to just get up, take leave for half a day, and run back home just to console us that no, it's okay, brave children don't cry, it's not like that, it will happen. So, on that same April 16th, he came running back home just to tell me how you. Yes, he was not worthy of me, and I should be very confident that if I had worked hard, then it's okay, we will try once again, and all of that. So, if parents were not there, I don't think I would have come this far at all. One more thing, if you want to mention, when we are talking backstage, then you mentioned that so that you do not get mentally impacted, your mother, you know, she. If you would want to. Yes, I would like to tell, like, see, since we come from a very, like, middle-class background, so it was not like everything is available on just a click. And we used to like, we had studying hours of 8 to 10 hours daily, and my Mom was the one soul who was working, managing outside work, managing household work. There was also a time during COVID when Papa was also very busy. And she developed a kind of pain in her abdomen, and she did not tell that for about six months, seven months. But ultimately, we got her diagnosed, and we got that she had gall bladder, she had stones. And they were like really big, 17 mm, 12 mm size stones, so they had become very big. And she was just delaying her operation, why? Because our prelims were there. She was like, if I will get operated, I will be on bed for a few days, and they will have to work, or they will not be able to study and get impacted. So, they have not just physically, not just mentally, but even through their health, they have compromised on that. Just to make sure that whatever requirement we had, it was always fulfilled. The idea was to give us a stable career because we come from a rural background. Specifically, if I talk about Ballia, we have seen girls getting married at the age of 17, 18, 19. We have seen girls who used to go study till fifth class, and they are told to sit back home. And my Mom was very sure, this is not what I want my daughters to be like. So, I think she has gone through that emotional turmoil all alone, hiding it from us, keeping it to herself, and then playing one of the biggest roles that anybody could have played in my life. So, well, the next question is related to this only, that parents did what they did. Personally also, a UPSC aspirant goes through a lot. So, what exact strategy in those moments of pain, agony, psychological pain, psychological agony, when you were not clearing? Right? So, what was that strategy that motivated you that you again have to get back on to your mission, which can be of help to the UPSC aspirants, because there are many who work really hard, at times because of the luck factor, they are not able to get their name in the list, expectations of the family, a lot of other things are there. So, how to, like, get you out from that emotional thing so that you are back on working hard. One word I say is acceptance. When you start accepting things, it becomes easier to look at it practically. Now, if I say that we need to keep emotions aside and move ahead with practicality, that would be very wrong on my part because I believe in one thing, that whatever emotion you are feeling, live that in that moment. But to accept it. Yes. To accept it. I remember when it did not happen last year, so on the 16th, I just kept typing my name again and again, just to, that maybe somewhere, some roll number is wrong, some name is wrong, and that no matches found, when it was coming, my heart broke at every moment. Saw it 10 times, it happened 10 times. After that, I was quiet for a while because I was frozen, I could not understand. It was the fourth attempt, a lot was at stake, parents had a lot of expectations, and I thought that it should have happened by now, right? God, I did my struggle, I did my five years of preparation, I should have gone through. And then I started, I think, crying, and that went on for eight to 10 days straight, that I am crying and I am studying. I am crying and I am studying because it was not that I was focusing and studying. It was not that I was crying all day. But I was trying myself to be in the state I was. Meaning, you can call it, allow your emotions to just flow. So, this was because prelims were in two months. So, I knew I can't leave my books aside and sit and cry. And I was crying because I couldn't control my emotions. I knew I had worked hard. I knew that I maybe I wanted to get through. So, that pain, I think, but it is very, very important to understand when to stop. If I could have grieved just for it, maybe I would have not given my best. So, is it like channeling of that grief in such a manner that it is making you study actually? Yes. That is what I was coming to that. When I was crying, and second thing, you need to have somebody to speak to, whom you really trust a lot. Trust, as in, you know, there are, you know, you can see in somebody's eyes and you can understand if the person is actually empathetic towards you or not. So, this pain, I used to talk to my Mom. I also, I am fond of writing. I think I have written pages that I am planning to like, get them like on my Telegram, if you guys want to read. Those were some of the heart-breaking days of my life. I wrote everything that I was feeling at that moment. The good, the bad, the strengths, the weaknesses, the plan B, the, you know, years I've invested in, how all of this preparation can shape the upcoming journey of my life. I have seen, I have like seen my 50 years right in front of my eyes in those papers. So, I did that. And then I realized that my brother was there at that time, he said that it's just a matter of 12 marks. You have worked so hard, you have reached here. If you want, you will just get through that also. Don't worry. Let's try once more. And I will tell you, he is my younger brother. But he started working even before me. As he completed his graduation, he started working because of financial support for the family. He started doing that. He was like, I am working, right? What are you worried about? Study. So, that support when you get from the family, and then I sat back and thought, okay, obviously, it's a great achievement to go through the interview stage as well. Now, we will work on the shortcomings. So, then I made a strategy because 15 days just went like that. But from May 1st, when I started studying. Those were some 10 to 12 hours of study, in which I prioritized NCERT. Prioritized previous year questions, and current affairs. Since in the 2023 attempt, I was in the cycle the whole year. So, I was in touch with current affairs. There was no stage where we could ignore current affairs, be it mains, be it interview. So, I focused a lot on revision of those things. And I think one of, I got like, one of the highest prelims scores in all of my attempts. This was 100 that I scored this year. Last year, I had 82 only. Before that, I could not clear the prelims. So, I think I was very happy to achieve that feat as well in prelims. So, this was that emotions, just live in them and channelize them into some sort of action that you do the required. And on the cognitive part, I am seeing the pattern, which you have said a couple of times, that not hard work, but hard work in such a way that we are able to identify our loopholes, the shortcomings that were there, identify them clearly, objectively, and then working hard on them, right? If I say that this way, let's keep it this way, then I will tell you that we, as humans, find it very easy to blame circumstances for things that are happening. But if we want, and then if we do that, we will never be able to accept that defeat. Then it will feel like this factor worked, that factor worked, maybe this should have happened. But when you accept that, okay, everything was placed as it was destined, maybe might be I was on the other part where I would have worked a bit. I think with this, that to get better, you know.
Better yourself, and that too, will be one thing that will help you in the future. In psychology, we used to study that one should have an internal locus of control, whether it's success or failure. Next, I would want to know that discipline and perseverance are important, and along with that, discipline is also very important. So, any habits which you developed or followed to keep yourself disciplined through this long journey. Okay, if I talk about discipline, I think this is one that is required to sustain that monotonous routine. If you are a person who gets bored very easily, or a person who cannot, like, you know, focus for more. I think then UPSC is not a field for you. You have to daily wake up at a fixed time. Those four things have to be done daily in the day. So, initially, when I was working, I used to follow a late-night routine. From 2021, when I left my job, since then, when I wanted to get back into it, I had a fixed routine of waking up at 5 o'clock. That was fixed. It was such that now my body clock was so set that even I did not need an alarm to wake up at that time. That was my fixed routine: to wake up at 5 AM and be in bed by 11:30 PM at night. In between, that time of mine has to be properly utilized. Four things have to be done. There has to be a slot for current affairs. One for GS. One for optional, and one for a test slot. Apart from this, if anything that I am doing will always be an add-on, more than the study hours, and anything happens, these four things have to be balanced very properly. I cannot ignore any one of them for that. So, this was one of my proper routines: okay, maybe sometimes not willing to study. That day, I might be like, solving just one hour, I will be giving to the test. That day, I am in the mood to just solve or practice diligently. I have written mains answers of 2.5 hours. So, that is one thing that I maintained myself. Because my mother, she used to say this only: that you guys never had to be told to study. Because you kept that check on yourself. Rather, my mom used to come to say, "Let's go to sleep. Let's go to sleep. It's late now. Go to sleep." So, she used to come for that. So, an internal discipline, that which comes from oneself, that is really very important. Because many of the time, students, they have this thing that they have this feeling of getting burnt out. So, like, was there any time that you felt, "Oh, how much more should I study? I am getting burnt out," and then how did you come out of it, if that was the case? I think this happens when you are given multiple attempts. This does happen because in every attempt, picking up the same Laxmikant, the same NCERT, again and again. So, this was one thing because of which I started picking up new resources in my third attempt. And when I failed in that, then I realized when I was expanding my resources, I was less focusing on getting into the depth and revisions. So, now, in every attempt, because I have followed my hit-and-trial methods, what is working, what is not, and I changed that. So, that was the breakdown, this mental breakdown or burnout. So, students come to me saying, "Ma'am, I have to study for 12 hours, 18 hours." So, I tell them, the human brain has a capacity. If you study for 12 hours for two days, you will not be able to study for five hours for five days, meaning continuously. Because the body has that capacity. So, I kept a limit of 8 to 10 hours normally. Otherwise, on exam days, it would increase. And what I used to do, even after every 20 days, I used to take a half-day break or a full day break. So, I have also taken those regular breaks. Now, during that break, people love to do different things. I used to ride, they used to ride, or I also like cooking. I used to spend some time in the kitchen with my mom. So, I did that because I was not very much interested in TV series. And also, I knew that again, I am feeding something into my brain, and I am getting involved into those plots of the stories. So, I used to avoid that. But listening to some music, talking to parents, spending some time in the kitchen. So, all of that just to relax myself. So, I have kept that. It's not that because mine is also a very long journey. So, I am not studying for like 365 * 5 years. It was also very regular breaks that I had. So, I had devised a strategy at my time to monitor. We were talking about discipline, right? So, what I used to do? At that time, there was not so much of a trend of stopwatches and all. So, I used to have this, my IIT preparation diaries. So, I used to have this table clock. So, as soon as I used to get up from the table, I used to take out its back cell, and that cell, even if I got up for any small work, that cell would go back inside only when I was back to studying. So, actually, I identified that when I did that for UPSC also, it's extremely tough to actually get more than 7 to 8 hours on the table. So, if anyone is saying that they used to study for 15 hours or 18 hours, then I personally feel that it is a bit humanly impossible. I could manage a maximum of 14 hours, but that too, only for one day. Yes, that's what I am telling you. Because I heard about the stopwatch, the first thing from a Pala Mishra ma'am. She came up and said she had that timer, and even for drinking, if she was getting up, she would close it. I got that same black timer at my desk. At 8 to 10, many of them. And the second thing I heard was from Utkarsh Dwivedi sir. He said he is rank five, I think, in the previous year. He said, "10 hours for one year, and your next 10 years are set." So, these two things remained with me. So, I used to keep a target of 8 to 10 hours. I maintained 9.5 to 10 hours daily. On Sundays, I used to be a bit lenient, or after 15 days, I was a bit lenient. And then during exam hours, mine increased, like during mains, it would go to 13 hours, 12 hours. So, that used to be maintained in between those GS1, GS2, GS3 that you are having, and all. So, during mains, I have gone to 14 hours, 13 hours. But during prelims, I also used to stick to 10 to 11 hours. And that was, and that is high time during my exams. Because that adrenaline rush that you have will basically force you to study that. So, that used to happen. Otherwise, normally, it used to be 8 to 10 only. Somewhere in between. So, because now it's May 25th, we have prelims, and today is like May 3rd, right? So, very few weeks are left. So, this time is actually a time of a huge amount of, as you mentioned, adrenaline rush also, and anxiety also. And at times, we also start trusting our sources less, and some friend tells us that a new source has come, it's very good, do it. So, there is a lot of confusion. So, mentally, how should one keep oneself in the last 21 days? And also, let's say, on the day of the exam, how was your psyche working to keep yourself like calm and composed, and during the exam also? So, that is okay. I will tell you one thing. UPSC is an exam in which we lose mentally before we actually lose in the exam. So, the third or fourth attempt, I will tell a story. What happened with me is that it was the 2023 attempt, and in the 2022 attempt, what happened? I failed prelims, as I mentioned, by one mark. And at that time, I felt one thing. The reason for failure was those pair-type questions that I saw in the paper. And there were about seven or eight only. And I reached there like, either I know, either I don't know, or I was trying to solve it by applying knowledge. And I got panicked in the examination hall. And see, it was just a matter of one right question, and I would have written the mains in 2022 as well. So, that thing was in my mind. So, when I was going for the 2023 attempt, I was all very confident that if I have done NCERT, if I have done previous year questions, if I have followed current affairs well throughout the year, then if I know, everybody else will know. If I am not knowing, nobody will know. So, this is something, you can call it false confidence, but I literally had worked hard. If you have truly worked hard, then this will give you a strong boost that, okay, if they have asked about a certain term, and it is in NCERT, I have read it, so I have read it. But if they have asked about a certain term, and it is not in NCERT, then 90% of students don't know. Might be history optional students might have come across it. Okay? Being a PSI student, I will get an edge in pity. So, you need to give yourself a lot of mental training. In 2023, I explained all this to myself, and I reached the examination hall at 8:20, and I checked, opened my bag, and I forgot my admit card at home. My ID card, pens, everything is at home. I am just carrying a bag, and I am at the center. Earlier, I think in the 2023 attempt, entries were allowed until 9:20. Now, I think there are strict guidelines. So, I am now panicking. I am calling my dad, that I missed everything at home. Bring it from home. Dad comes halfway. Me and my brother go halfway. We pick that up. Because of the rush, it was 9:15. The gate was almost closing at 9:20. And I just pleaded, "Please allow me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, please allow me." And they allowed me. The gate was closing. But during all of that, I was like panicking like hell, anxiety was at its peak, my heartbeats racing, and I am just so panicked that, "What just happened with me? Like, and this was supposed to be a calm mind to give the exam. What happened?" And then I am sitting at my table until when the question paper comes, and only one pair, only two pairs, only one pair, only two pairs. And he reached the 100th question, and 90% of the questions were just like that in the 2023 attempt. And that's when I started thinking, "This attempt is gone. Now, all of them are only pair-type questions. Last time there were 10, so I didn't do it. How will I do that?" All that was going on. Then I realized. Then I looked at somebody sitting beside me. Then I was already in my mask, crying also on the table. I see somebody beside me. The person was very chill, and he was all hanging this pen like this, sitting there with his legs, and just looking at the paper very nicely, very composed, very calm, and chill. I looked at him. Then I took a look in the examination hall. I am like, "Everybody is just like me. What is something that I don't have? Why am I crying? I have given four years to it. I am already done with my NCERT." Then I started recalling my strengths. Took a sip of water, and then I said, "Okay, let's get there." And I cleared the attempt. Those 82 marks, I cleared that prelims that year. I even faced the interview. Yes. So, I went till the interview. So, I remember that how, when I was at my weakest, lowest, and then I stood back because of my confidence. Because a little bit of self-motivation, because in the examination hall, if you are going down, that's the worst you can do to yourself. Because you have already worked hard, you have done everything. Just a little bit of that confidence that, "I know I will be able to do it. Be calm, be composed." You have to do that. And that nobody else can do. Because in the examination hall, you are going alone. No mentor, no teacher, nobody is going with you there. So, you need to have that support of something. And I always ran back to God in those times. When things are bad, when something like this happens, I find nobody. I rely on God. So, I used to pray, I used to just take his name, and I am like, "I will try my best." So, I did that, and I think that literally worked. You have to revive yourself. Nobody else is going to help you there. One more thing in this panic, many of the students, they end up marking wrong on the OMR. Either you do it like, you mark one question and then mark it, or a set of three questions, and then mark it, or how? Okay. If I talk about this UPSC, its exam pattern, for that, there are two or three things. You have to practice. First is a body clock, that we call circadian rhythm. And the second thing is marking the OMR. Okay? Now, what has happened is that many online tests have started. People are like, that Google work is going on. So, UPSC is not doing that. My idea was that since I was already an early riser, there was no problem with the circadian rhythm. But there was a problem with mock tests because I used to attempt so many open mocks, and they were all online. So, literally, in my last two months, I used to get the papers printed. I used to get my OMR. My idea was to go through the paper in three iterations. First, I will just go through and mark those that I am 100% sure of. And I will not mark it on the OMR. Second reading, I used to go through those where I was 20-20, 50-50 percent, stuck on some two. And when about 70-75 of these were sorted, then I used to sit and mark them. I had 30 minutes more in hand. In that, I used to go through the questions that I did not know at all, trying my peripheral knowledge, trying intelligent guesses, trying some, you know, those eliminations and all, if at all they worked. And then I used to get them marked. So, my idea used to be: solve the paper and then go through it. Because when you are doing two-three questions, only two or three attempts, then you mark. There are chances that you might skip here and there. But when you are going in sequence, then there is a chance. So, think a little, understand a little, even if it takes 10 minutes to fill the OMR sheet, but please give that. Because if one is wrong, then consecutively, it will go wrong, it will ruin your attempt. I used to be so scared of this thing that I actually did it once. So, then I will mark it simultaneously. And I used to have this problem that, for example, over-analysis. Meaning, even in something that I am 100% sure of, I would think, "Am I really sure?" To prevent that, I would mark it with a pen so that I cannot change it. Yes, I told this. I think I remember, since I am a mentor somewhere, so some students were there, and they said, "Ma'am, this answer seemed correct." I gave an example. I will tell you. There was a question about the World Toilet Organization in 2024. So, I was telling students that, see, sometimes, about the World Toilet Organization, that question was not about it. The first statement was about the UN. So, it was about the UN. The second question was that they provide funds. So, you should have known about Swachh Bharat Mission. So, India was not funded by anyone. So, you could mark it from this. So, she asked me, "Ma'am, ma'am, what if the World Toilet did not provide funds, but someone else funded India?" And something like that. I am like, "This is the problem of over-analysis. When you start analyzing the question too much, then so many parameters will come to your mind that you will get the correct answer wrong." So, I also suggest that if you are 100% sure, if it's that, then please mark it then and there so that you don't change it. I have seen my friends who will be like very sure. They marked A first, and they end up circling B there because of some analysis. What is correct is what you see first. Because what you see first is your knowledge, your intuition that tells you that this is correct. But if you do analysis, then it will take into certain parameters, certain factors, some other concepts you will bring there that will make it more complex. So, I think that's a problem as well. With respect to mains, like one thing, a big highlight of your marks is you have got one of the highest marks, I think, in the whole country, 141, you got in Ethics. So, like in Ethics, while attempting, you know, Section A is there, Section B is there. So, for example, while attempting the case studies, right? What was your approach? Because case studies, they can be a certain kind of case studies. They test upon the cognitive aspects, certain, you know, value aspects, etc. So, like in the examination hall, how did you approach the case studies aspect? How did you, like, structure your answer? If I talk about Ethics, I think the biggest challenge is to complete the paper on time. Because, because nowadays, case studies, they are like, they are really lengthy. And at that time, what happens is that when you have to attempt six case studies back to back, you need to make sure that you are not repeating the same dilemmas again and again. The ethical dilemma you wrote in the third one, you are not repeating them again. You are not repeating the same values again and again. You are not repeating the same theories. So, this was one problem. And I understood that Ethics is something that you have to write with a lot of analysis and structure. Otherwise, all of your case studies will look similar. All your answers will look more or less similar. Because in every one, they will ask about an ethical dilemma, and more or less, you write the same thing. So, my idea used to be that first, I used to attempt the Part A in one hour, 15 minutes, or so. That used to be very fast in attempting because that is a static part. When you know the value, you know the ideas, you just go through it. In case studies, there is some scope for innovation. So, my idea used to be that things like, people say, "Start with stakeholders," even if it is not asked. If, so, now my idea is that completing the paper on time is more priority than trying to show your showcase your knowledge at times. So, if you have time, write what is not asked. If you don't have time, do not try to beautify your answers or try to stand out. Instead, you can do more value addition. You can give some time to thinking and structuring your answer properly. So, I used my knowledge. I think that could have been the best part is that I used my knowledge.
Here is the English translation of the provided Hindi text:
Optional here. PSIR was my optional. They are thinkers like Plato, Aristotle, we have those. And all of them and their theories are very good. Like the term of Categorical Imperative. Then we have all those four cardinal virtues of Plato. All of that, I used to pick Utilitarianism and everything we have started in the optional as well. So, I picked up those themes, the Banality of Evil, we have that from Hannah Arendt. So I used to use the knowledge of my optional very much, very properly.
Second thing, I used to answer how much was asked. I didn't used to give so much time on trying to beautify the structure. No need to fill all the pages. But the thing that was asked, point-wise, keywords, and just highlighting new dimensions. I used to make sure that in every case study, I am not repeating the same ethical dilemma. And I used to go for synonyms. If integrity is written somewhere, then I will go for conscience somewhere. So I did not make sure that everywhere I am writing integrity, integrity, integrity. So those were a few things. I think I kept in mind, might be that worked.
So, can you give an example? Like, if there is a case study, what would a sample structure look like? Suppose there is a case study. I think a recent one comes to mind. Suppose you posted somewhere and then you come to know about such and such corruption, then there are people who are sending you money to just keep quiet and let things happen. So sometimes they will ask, what are the ethical dilemmas that you understand? So, those are the keywords that I took from the syllabus.
Also, I will tell you that these previous year questions on ethics are such a great value addition. Because UPSC itself has asked so many beautiful terms. That now you can use as keywords in your answers. So I picked up many things from there. If stakeholders are not asked, I will not mention. But if asked, then I will go with even the smallest on the ladder. Meaning, that kind of thing. For example, even if they are talking about corruption and all, and it is related to some dam or something that is built. I will take the environment into consideration as well. Not just people, not just public money, and I will go for the environment and nature also as stakeholders there. So that is one thing, that if you are taking stakeholders, then start from the top and go till the very bottom level, the basic level. So that is something I did.
Second, ethical dilemmas. Again, from previous years, I just picked the top ones and I will mention them. The options. People are writing to extremes. Either I will agree with them, then these are its positives, these are its negatives. Or I will not agree with them, these are its positives, these are its negatives. I always used to give a middle ground as well. That okay, I, since they are my seniors and ordering me, I could just sit and say, talk to them, or refer to a committee for that, or refer to my senior. So this is a slightly middle ground, which will look more practical as a solution. Yes. So that is, yes, because what you write second, like, I will confront them. You are recently posted somewhere. Practically, it is not possible for you to stand and confront them. You need to follow a middle path. You need to get somewhere. So that Golden Mean of Aristotle, or the Middle Path of Buddhism, that I would add, and that is a middle path that used to give, which looked a bit more practical.
So this was one. Second, your highlight is the interview. You got 200 marks. And I think we are discussing your first interview. You did not score that well. 70, yes. So, can you tell students would be very interested to know. You know. So, what, tell me, tell us about your interview story? I will tell you one thing, that one thing I learned last year was, do not lie in your interview. Do not lie in your DAF. Anywhere, anything. What happened with me the first time was filling my DAF. And there is something that you should not leave blank. So in sports, I was not very active from my childhood days. And I don't have any such experience of having good knowledge about certain sports. But I didn't like leaving sports, NCC blank. So what I did was, I thought, let's write badminton, because I casually play badminton, and I wrote that only to realize that in every board, when questions were coming about it, technically, my entire confidence was going down because you know, they are sitting right in front of your face. So if they are asking you some question, and then you are like, okay, okay, don't ask about badminton, and as they speak, then your facial expression will change, and they know that you were bluffing or you were lying there. So, one mistake I made was that I mentioned certain things on which I did not have that much command. And I ended up spending so much time trying to command that, but it is not a sport that you can understand just by reading theoretically. You will have to get on to the field, which I had absolutely no knowledge of. So that was one problem.
Second thing, I remember, I can tell you one thing, that when you are going for an interview, you literally have the opportunity to turn the course of the interview. The fodder you give by speaking to the board might turn out to create little linkages. And since we attend so many mocks, many mocks tell us that don't speak too much. Don't allow them to ask you more questions. Don't speak on your own. Sometimes you say too much, it might go against you and all. So I followed this. They asked me, and I used to answer just very briefly in one line and keep quiet. They were like, maybe they were expecting to elaborate on that. Maybe they were expecting me to be more, you know, to go on my opinion-based, as I can say, which did not happen last year. Third, personality, it's about, yes. It's about your way of presenting it. Giving cut-to-cut answers, then one doesn't know who you are. Yes. So this happened, that I am just putting things that are already there. Now, this third thing, I think, which I think we need to consider a bit now, is that there is actually variation across boards. There is some variation in boards, how they are marking, what their averages are. Though I think that is not in our hands, so we cannot take that into consideration. But do not question if sometimes very bad marks come, and you are like, they are good. Maybe there was some fault, but sometimes there are variations in boards too.
This year, what I did was, that's what I did while filling my DAF. I made sure I will not write anything that I don't have firsthand experience of. I removed badminton, I removed certain things. I mentioned art and other things that I personally did, I wrote that. Second thing, and I think sir, this year, the board of Dinesh Dash sir, and sir himself started. Since I am from Prayagraj. The first question was about Kumbh. And he said, we have read so much in newspapers, we have seen so much on television channels. I want to know the ground realities from you. You are from Prayagraj. Your father is in the police. Speak facts, speak truth. So, let's talk that way. So, I understood one thing that, okay, since he is also giving me that leverage, that I could speak my opinion on things, I could give my, you know, a perspective. So that this year's interview was so much opinion-based, and we had conversations. There was no fact involved. Like, I will give some example. The first question was about Prayagraj, about Kumbh, about stampede, they went on crowd management. In PSIR, they went on to Mandal theory, but they did not ask very factual things from that. They said, practically, apply it and tell. I said, apply it on Pakistan, Afghanistan. I said, yes, it works. He said, now apply it on Nepal and China, and there it fails. So that question, because what is your opinion? Even they talk about MPs, they talk about banks, they talk about bringing educational qualifications for MPs. All of this is so much debated right now. Should we bring that or not? Should this happen or not? Will the UP government be able to manage such a crowd or not? So all these things that are yet to be seen, we talked about them. So it was something that was coming from my perspective, my understanding. That's why I was so scared. I called Diksha ma'am and told her, ma'am, I feel like it has become very opinion-based. I cannot figure out how the interview went. But then it was okay, and I scored 200. So I realized that this is a brownie point if your interview goes opinion-based. Because then your true personality is coming out. Then you are speaking, and not those things that you have read throughout the year. You are not just saying all that. True personality, your true thing, it comes. And actually, I agree that I think in the interview, you are best as you are. So, not bringing in fakeness, and your, and I think because you are in preparation, knowledge has come, whatever knowledge you have, if you present it in a composed manner, that's required. Only that is required. So this change, obviously, if you are going in front of an interview board, you won't sit in a way that may disrespect them. This is basic sense. But it's not that you have to stick your hands and just speak. You are not removing. If you have a habit of moving a little, that somewhere you are doing. A little naturalness is very important. Becoming too mechanical, I think actually puts a lot of pressure on yourself. Because then you are trying to pretend to be somebody who you are not. So that was one thing. Last year, I remember going and sitting very straight there, and they are speaking, and not even moving my hands, just speaking in one statement and getting back. And I think those marks showed that they were less. This time, I was a bit flexible. We had conversations, cross-questions. They were laughing too. We exchanged, like, okay, views, laughter too. So it was a bit, a very cordial time. How long did your interview last? 25 to 30 minutes. 30 minutes. But it was a really nice experience. Like, they also even asked, if you have a hobby of writing, please tell me about something that you have written. So all of that was there, and got a really good response also. So it was good overall.
It's such a proud thing that a lady is All India Rank One. And this time, I think in the top 10, there are five, and in the top 25, there are, I think, 11 or so. It's very brilliant. So, do you think it is just a coincidence, or does it tell something about that something is changing in our society in a positive direction? Is it like a bigger, does it represent a bigger change with respect to women empowerment? I met most of the rankers. They are all in their third, fourth, fifth attempts. So, my mom was talking on this topic, and she said, I told you, women are emotionally very strong. And I think the grit they carry, the perseverance they carry, that you will not find anywhere else. And this is truly seen this year that we, and I also talked to tons of the rankers. Harshita ma'am, she's here also, Rank 2. So she also said this thing, that it wasn't like if it didn't happen in my third attempt, I would have not gone for it. Mine was the sixth attempt. UPSC gave it. I would have gone for it. Because we, as women, understand the importance of that security you need in society. We, as women, have faced certain things, and we know that what changes are a bit required because we have firsthand experience. So that confidence within us to go through things. And that determination, that why I am doing it, that is always with us. So I think that is one thing that is motivating more girls to come out.
Second thing, UPSC post-COVID has become such a thing where resources are very widely available online too. And this basically saves our time of coming to Delhi. You are spending so much of money and being there in our own comfort and studying. So I think that is also like now forcing more women to move towards it as a better career option. And I would like to add something from, like, the beginning of the interview. I think as a society also, you know, we are changing positively in the sense that, for example, your case, your mother, your father, your brother, all of them, they also, you were a major actor, but they also supported you, right? So, therefore, as a society also, it's like really amazing. Meaning, I was personally very enchanted by that. You know, that the whole family, you know, it worked. I will tell you that there, people are changing. That is the truth. Society is also changing. But there are some areas where people are still just there, and we need a lot to be done on them and for them. But now, like, there were times when earlier people used to get worked up by such questions. But I think now, since women themselves, like my mom, they are coming, and they are strong and standing forward, then I think they can literally change. It is said that women can change generations. So it was my mom who did it for me. And yes, yes. That's what happens. She changed the generation for us. Because I remember, because initially, she was there at the hometown only in Ballia with my father. My father could be posted to Allahabad, and the only question she told that Dad was like, let's move to Allahabad. And Dad was like, no, that's, those are government quarters, they are very small, how will you live there? She just asked one thing, is there a school there? And my dad was like, yes, there is a very good school. She said, that's enough, I want to go there. However small the government quarter is, I just suggest, just take me there. I want them to start getting education properly. And that's where she has always stood against odds. She has stood and like talked to my father. She, she has explained everything to him. And he was always very supportive. No, it never happened that no, no. And they have changed. I think now this impact is in my, I am also hearing stories in Ballia that women are like, I will also educate my daughter and make her like Didi. So that is a more positive thing that makes me more happy. So, agent of change, right? That's the very beautiful thing about it.
Anything which you would want to do as a woman civil servant? Maybe on the lines of, like, you don't plan it, but it happens. For example, Kiran Bedi or, you know, Meenal Agarwal. So you cannot plan it, but still, anything which you would want in your public service. I always, like, I have already spoken about it, that there is so much the government has already done. There is nothing like all the arenas have been touched upon. The problem is of implementation, is where what I see. Because the government is doing, like, about financial inclusion, whether it's even the Ujjwala scheme for LPGs and all. But still, when I go to a village, what is happening? Women are like, still using those stoves and all for cooking. Many of them are still doing it. Once they got a refill, they are not going again. So that implementation problem, that ability to make their own independent decision, I think that is a bit missing on the ground level. We feel that the Gram Panchayats have to be now made that agent of change who are like reaching to them actually and working. And they have to act as a, you know, interface between the administration and the very low-level people. So that we actually know what the ground realities are. Now, we know some basics. We are bringing government schemes on that. We are trying to implement it. But those trickle-down things, for that we need to get some more people into action. So I think that is somewhere I would like to work.
Okay. Thinking about change, one very big change which is happening and which can help in those administrative endeavors also. It is AI, and it can also help UPSC aspirants also. So, any thoughts on how AI can be used for smarter preparation by UPSC aspirants? Yes, I used AI, ChatGPT a lot this year in my interview, and I will tell you how it was. Some students were asking, can we just search PYQs, copy-paste them, and generate answers? No, there is something called algorithmic bias that you have to understand. Answers will not be that balanced. Okay? And these are, now, this is, from which zone are these AI chatbots created? You will find some or the other biases there. So, this should not be done. But what I used to do is, for example, I was a PSIR student. ORF website, I needed to go through. But I didn't have that much time. I used to copy-paste the link and put it in ChatGPT and ask them to summarize it in key points. So they used to highlight that. So, like reading editorials, for which sometimes you don't have time, but you find the article to be really, you can just copy-paste that article's name and ask them to summarize it. So, I think this will take less time for your smart work, as I can say. And you will get those highlighted points. If you find something relevant, you can add it to your notes. So these are a few things that we can do. But an अलग aspect of AI that I am witnessing recently is those AI-generated images that are circulating all across social media, and they look so real that I myself get confused, is it me or not? So, it has negatives, that I do realize, and people have to be vigilant themselves in reporting such things or like clarifying such things. We can just go for, like, fake profiles. I don't know, before I reached on Instagram, I had already seen so many pages there with 50,000 followers and having all those edited images. Fake information, somewhere posting that today is my birthday. Somewhere posting today is my father's birthday, something like that. So I do realize that it's a menace. When now I am one of the victims for that. So I realize it. But a bit for this, we have to be cautious on ourselves. That digital hygiene that we say, we need to maintain. Do not upload your pictures or something randomly on any website, on any editing apps or websites. Should be very cautious while you are doing it.
Thinking about social media, my optional was Psychology, and therefore I get extra worried about it, ADHD, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. Those who have Psychology as an optional think more. But still, this reel thing, and a reel is for 1 minute. Okay? And we lose, we lose patience there also. And it's like, you know, that attention span is hurt. The UPSC aspirant's preparation discipline, that is how to concentrate on a particular topic for a long period of time. Have, yes, that's what I say, that attention span is diminishing. That, you know, that we have developed that habit that now, immediately, in 30 seconds, that thing should come. And that's not how UPSC works. In that, you need in-depth analysis, research. So, therefore, I refrained from watching reels a lot, a lot, a lot. Now I watch a little bit because I am out of it. But I used to refrain from it because this was the thing that when you are watching, your attention span is decreasing. That patience within you is decreasing. And then you get that habit of instant gratification. Which you are not getting, then you get anxious. So you start getting depressed. So staying away from those things, a proper balance for social media use is very important these days. Because mostly people are staying indoors. Mostly people are on their phones for 90 or 80% of the time. So a little bit of balanced use of social media is very important. And I would suggest, if you are in preparation, then anyway, you just don't need to. You will see on social media, you see your friends enjoying, partying. That is another setback that you see. I think avoid it as much as you can. A little bit, just to be aware about what is going on. Some good websites you can follow, which I used to do. I follow Better India, PMO's website, MyGov, Government of India's website. Just follow them so that you get to see schemes and all. They have good animated pictures, videos, and all. So from that, you will also, like, catch your attention for a while, and you can get some information from there. So you can follow some good websites. Spend some time there. Otherwise, if you want, go for movies. I would suggest then, for watching reels. Because in movies, it's like, for 2.5 hours or 2 hours, whatever you are giving, you are getting through a storyline, and you have that time, you are sitting. But that 30-second problem that is coming, that we need to get through. Reels, shorts, all that, I would suggest that should not be done.
Nice. So, yes, that is there. And next, which I would want to know is that any, like, we have discussed already, a lot of things, but any advice which you would stand out from your side towards the aspirants that you would like to give. Okay. I think being in UPSC, a non-UPSC perspective is very important towards life. Because what we do is that we, you know, confine all our, you know, worth, everything, our future, everything to just one thing, and our perspective, you know, it becomes one-dimensional with time because we start looking at everything from the perspective of, can it be written in mains, or can it be answered? So, having a non-UPSC perspective is very important. For that, I had my sister. Okay? She was there. That if, like, even if I have to get something checked, then I, you, you, you, you, you, you give it to her. That I am a UPSC aspirant, am I writing too much? Meaning, you have also involved your family members in UPSC preparation. They were there, like, for my essays. I used to, like, go to her. She used to give me really good inputs that what to do. In ethics, she helped me a lot because she was so much interested. Her newspaper reading is her hobby. So she used to read newspapers a lot, and she would come up with, like, this is a case study, you can put this in. This is a tribal case study, you can add here as an example. So, having a non-UPSC friend is also very important. If you only have the peer group of UPSC, then you will always talk about depression only. You will always talk about failures. You will, like, hardly, it happens that you all like fall together. Right now, is she also motivated to get into UPSC? Yes, she was also getting, she is currently working only, but she also said, keep planning to appear. Give it some, give it a try once. So, probably in the future, might be if you hear some name again with Dubey, she will be my sister here. Yes. Your hobby is, you know, poem. Right? I don't know if I am pronouncing it correctly. Someone told me it's poems. I just go, it's your hobby, and I know that you recited a poem to the UPSC board also, and they liked it, I think so. Can you recite it to our audience? Yes, it was a Hindi poem, and I have recited it, and I think I got a really good response from the board members. So, this also I wrote last year only when the result came out, and things were really bad. So I was talking about patience. I was talking about that, the patience that should be there. So I read, I wrote, like, "Kitabein toh padh li hain bahut, par unko hata ke nayi lagane mein waqt lagega abhi. Imarat toh kaafi purani hai, usko gira kar nayi banane mein waqt lagega abhi. Kisse toh kai sambhal ke rakhe hain, unko kahani banane mein waqt lagega abhi. Sabr karo sab hoga, bas thoda aur waqt lagega abhi." So, it was about that patience, beautiful perseverance, and just to hold on to hope that it will take a little time, but things might get through.
One more quote I wrote in English that also I like, and I would like to tell the students is that "Cracks were the real weakness of those walls, and also cracks were the reason light entered within." Where, you know, there are certain things, like we see them as weaknesses. And we tend to just get bogged down by that. That you have to understand that those weaknesses can be your strength if utilized in a proper manner. So sometimes we think that maybe UPSC's unpredictability is a problem. But then that unpredictability is only the beauty that people from every stream are coming here and they are succeeding. So we need to just have confidence. A little bit of confidence in ourselves, self-confidence. Work hard properly. I think that will help us sail through this examination. It's really amazing.
So, I think we have come to the conclusion point of our talk. It was brilliant, you know, having you here. Your journey is actually very inspiring, truly inspiring. And hats off to your family, to the people who were part of this journey, and hats off to you. Right salute. Thank you so much. Nice. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [Music]