Transcription
And the Cantalon effect says whoever's closest to the money supply has the most advantage. If they're winning because they're using credit to buy assets, then why wouldn't we just do the same thing?
So, a lot of people don't understand why would a bank lend me $100 to $300,000 at 0% interest. It sounds too good to be true. I think you have like a three-step process that somebody would typically follow. We break that up into pre-optimization and optimization. Things are risky, but when you know what the risks are, you can do things to mitigate the risks. You do carry additional risk by borrowing money, but I think it reduces risk because your chance of succeeding increases. How do you manage the business while you're traveling all over the world like that? What would be bad ways to use the capital? If there was a major credit event that happened in the next, say, 24 months, how would that affect your system that you have up right now?
All right. So, Jack, I want to start with a claim that my audience probably um hasn't really ever heard out loud. Um, and they think about this world where like money is uh losing value 5, 8, 10% per year because of monetary debasement. Um, they don't really think about the ability to get zero% credit. Right? So maybe you're one of the very few people in finance that are talking about repeatable ways, legal ways for people to get money for cheap and make more money on it. And I want to talk about how and all of that. But before we do that, talk about why you think this is maybe one of the most asymmetric moves that somebody could make.
I mean, I think in the United States, this is the easiest way to access capital, especially for a newer stage entrepreneur. It is so easy through a specific framework where you don't have to show tax returns, you don't have to show proof of income, and you don't have to show collateral. All you need to do is provide and create and customize a really good attractive credit profile. And this is specifically unique to Americans. Like people in Europe, people in Canada, people in Mexico, all over the world, they don't have access to this type of credit. So 0% interest on business credit cards for the first seven to 18 months.
Okay. So I want to I want to dig into that. But before let's let's start with a little bit high level here because on one side of like personal finance, you got Dave Ramsey.
Yeah.
And he's maybe one of the biggest names in personal finance and he's telling everyone, don't use debt. to pay off your credit cards as fast as you can. Um, I'm on the other side saying that that was a world that's no longer here. So, I'm getting ready to go do this keynote in Vegas next week and I'm talking about the Cantalon effect. And Bitcoiners talk about this all the time that we're victims to this and V and Bitcoin could fix this. And the Cantalon effect says whoever's closest to the money supply has the most advantage because they get the money first. They buy assets and then those assets go up. And then by the time it gets all the way down to the little guy at the bottom, all the prices are already so high, so they get screwed. And so Bitcoiners use this all the time, the Bitcoin Standard and Lyn Alden's Broken Money and Natalie Bernel. They all books right about this. Like it's an injustice.
Mhm.
But I would say, well, if they're winning because they're using credit to buy assets, then why wouldn't we just do the same thing and use credit to buy assets? So, I know you talk about this a lot. Before we get into the how and all of that, um, when you talk about this, what are people's objection to that? Like, because it seems so simple, if that's unfair and they're getting rich because they're using credit to buy assets, then why wouldn't I do that? So, when you talk about this, like what do you hear people thinking about that?
Yeah. So, I mean, I think a lot of entrepreneurs, at least if they're starting in business or they're they're in the first five years of business, they don't understand the options that they have available to them on on how to fund their business. And I was the same way. I was an entrepreneur for seven seven years and I didn't understand that I could leverage myself and and my business to get access to capital. I've self-funded a business. I've brought on an equity partner who gave me the money to scale the business. I brought on a business loan where I paid interest. But it took me a long time to figure this credit product out and and understand that it's actually can be very easy to get. So a lot of people don't understand why would why would a bank lend me a hundred to to $300,000 at 0% interest? It sounds too good to be true. But the thing is, and this is what I realized many years ago, is if you justify yourself to the bank rather than justifying your business to the bank, then you can get these 0% interest business credit cards. So, what I mean by that is if you have a good, strong, trustworthy looking personal credit profile, the bank is going to look at that personal credit profile and think, "Okay, personally, this person looks trustworthy. Therefore, I'm going to lend his business capital." So, with the business loan, it's more so looking at the financials or the business plan. You're justifying your business. But what if your business is in the first two years? You don't have the greatest tax returns yet. What if you're just starting a business? Well, you can justify yourself through the personal credit report. Then the banks will lend to you $100 to $300,000 zero interest for 7 to 18 months.
Got it. So, most people might hear about something like this and think maybe it's too good to be true.
Yeah. and so instantly they dismiss it before they even learn about it. Um, or maybe they're worried about the risks because they hear Dave Ramsey say all the time, pay off your debt, never be never never use debt. The Bible tells you that that you know, debt debt makes you a borrower. The borrower is a servant to the lender. Those types of things. Yeah. And what I would say to that is I I think if an entrepreneur has access to more money, their chance of succeeding in the business increases. I've started a business with 5,000 bucks, with 20,000 bucks, and and and 200,000. my chance of succeeding was increased because I had access to more money. I didn't even have more money. I just had access to more money. And so when you're when you're limited, you could it when you're limited on capital, it makes it very difficult to scale your business. And through economies of scale, if you can move a little bit faster, inject a little bit more money, make the right hires, buy the right inventory, get the right softwares, etc., you can move faster. And I think the chance of succeeding increases. So, you do carry additional risk by borrowing money, but I think it reduces risk because your chance of succeeding increases.
Got it. And I think um my mentor now, one of my good friends, Robert Kiosaki, he's pounded the table for two, three decades now about good debt versus bad debt. So, like I think I think maybe that's also a big divide that people still get hung up on. They haven't read his books obviously. Um, and you know, when Dave Ramsey talking about paying off your debt, it's like, dude, if you charged up like a Hawaii trip, like you should probably pay that off. It's at 20% interest or something, like you should probably pay that off versus like most people would think like a good path to wealth would be real estate and maybe I'd buy some rental properties or whatever, but nobody, I would imagine, nobody thinks about paying cash for those things. They're going to get a loan. And so, it seems obvious, but sometimes you have to sort of like spell that out for people.
Yeah, I think you for sure have to really break it down to the basics for people because I think a lot of people will follow advice from Dave Ramsey about paying debt. Debt is risky, debt's the devil, etc. But it's certainly a tool like a gun is a tool. It can do bad things, it can do good things. Same thing with debt. And so I think if if someone leverages debt in a very smart way and puts that into growth aspects of their business or into the right investments and it's good debt, it's cheap money at 0% interest or even like 10% interest on a business line of credit.
Yeah, it can, you know, make a lot more money because you're using it correctly.
I talk about it like it because it's leverage, it can like it's like I call it like fire where like you could use it to cook your food or it could burn your house down. It could be used either way and babies or kids, little kids should not play with fire because they don't learn how to use it, but hopefully they grow up and they mature and they learn how to use fire responsibly. Um, but a lot of people are like financial babies where they've never grown up to learn how to use credit properly and so maybe they shouldn't. So Dave Ramsey's Robert Kiyosaki told me Dave Ramsey's right for like 90% of the people. What are some of the hard lessons that you've had to learn using um using credit and leverage for your businesses to scale your businesses?
So before I answer that question directly, a a big lesson I learned about not using credit was when I self-funded a business with 5,000 bucks. I was selling hoverboards. And the lesson I learned was through a massive opportunity cost because we were so limited on capital and hoverboards at the time became extremely viral. And after the whole craze ended after a couple years, I talked to other people who moved a lot quicker selling that specific type of product and they made millions of dollars because they had access to money and they're able to move a lot quicker. We could not move quick and so we did okay. We made some money, but we learned through a massive opportunity cost for me on lessons around debt is if you don't inject it into really good growth aspects of the business, then maybe you're not going to make a good enough return in a short enough period of time where then you can then you might be in a position where you're going to pay a little bit of interest. But through some strategic 0% interest transfer balances or balance transfers, you can get other cards where you can balance the the debt to to a different card to get another year of 0%. Or you also have a business line of credit. So you can borrow from the business line of credit, pay off the 0% card, then get a new 0% card, and then there's ways to transfer the debt that way. So by not so the lesson there is
I wasn't prepared in this time this was like five four or five years ago I wasn't prepared enough to get additional cards as quick as I needed them but now I've been doing it for so long and now it becomes very easy to get more cards when I need etc and on how to transfer the debt.
Yeah. So I think the lesson that you're talking about there first of all is that things are risky but when you know what the risks are you can do things to mitigate the risks. So what we want to do as entrepreneurs, business owners, investors is not pretend these things are not risky. We want to understand that there is lots of risk and we want to try to uncover as many potential risks as possible and then work to mitigate those risks. So you talk about duration risk, right? So if I have a 30-year fixed mortgage on my home, like, well, dude, I got 30 years. doesn't matter what the price of the home does, it's not going to get called versus if I signed up for like a one-year credit line. But then I put that short-term money, I would consider a one-year loan shortterm, but I put it into a long-term play. So then I take the short-term uh money and I put it into some risky asset that might not grow for four or five years or it's just extremely volatile even like Bitcoin, right? So then I put it into Bitcoin, but who knows what the volatility of Bitcoin will be in in over a 30-day 90day period, right? So that comes due and then it's down. So we want to think about duration. And while I understand that duration mismatch, what you're saying a one-year loan into a duration asset is dangerous. Then what can I do to mitigate it? And so one of the strategies you're talking about is I could have additional lines set up that I could roll it into. There's other ways. You said you may have to pay interest. So do I have liquidity somewhere else that I could cover the payment? Do I have other assets I could borrow against if I needed? But there's different ways we can mitigate that. one of those is is rolling them over. So that's a great lesson.
Yeah, for sure. I I think having additional credit lines ready and good relationships with banks ready. So we need to when you need to call on those relationships, you can. So for example, if you had a $50,000 BA balance at Chase, 0% for 12 months, one thing you could do to mitigate that risk is start building the relationship with Bank of America and American Express and other banks. So, by the time you get to the end of that 12 months and you can't pay it back, well, you can get other credit lines opened very quickly because you've built and maintained good strong personal credit and you've been building this new relationship. So, you can get those credit lines and then as you mentioned and you can also borrow against different assets like a well structured life insurance policy or against your Bitcoin at only like 5% wrap Bitcoin which I like doing and yeah, there's many ways.
Yeah. And so you know the saying takes money to make money but it didn't have to be your own money right and so so you have this available I remember growing up my parents always like what do you think we have a money tree in the backyard but it's like we do cuz like that's what credit is right and and kind of say as I said earlier like Dave Ramsey is right but for the wrong period so up to 1971 we were in an equity based monetary system we're gold backed but since 1971 we got off of the dollar and we're in a debt based system so money is literally created through debt issuance that's how money gets created created. So if you want a money tree, you just you just have the credit. But it it it bears worth it bears repeating uh if you use it properly. If you put it into terrible things and you lose the money, then you owe money then on on things that you lost. Hey, look, you've you've worked hard to build your Bitcoin stack. But if it's still sitting on an exchange, it's not really yours. You see, the exchange holds the keys to your Bitcoin. Now, if they freeze withdrawals, if they get hacked, they go under your Bitcoin. It could disappear overnight. Even if you've moved it into a single cold wallet, you're still exposed. Now, that would be one device, one point of failure. If anything bad were to happen, you could lose your Bitcoin. Now, that's why I use Unchained. Their collaborative custody vault gives me the best of both worlds. I hold my keys, but my security doesn't depend on just one of them. Now, this is where security and sovereignty actually meet. You see, Unchained's collaborative custody Bitcoin vaults use a two of three multi-IG model, which means that you hold two keys and Unchained holds one. That means that you own your Bitcoin, but if you ever need help, like their team is there to assist you without ever having control over your funds. And here's what I really like. Unchained isn't some offshore exchange or anonymous company. They're based in Austin, Texas. And when you call, you're not stuck with bots or scripts. you talk to a real Bitcoiner who genuinely cares about helping you get it right. Now, they've been at it since 2016 and now secure over 12 billion in Bitcoin for people just like you and I. Now, that kind of trust doesn't happen overnight. So, if you're serious about long-term security and ownership, head over to unchained.com/mark moss and use code moss 10 to get 10% off of your first vault. Because if you don't hold your keys, you don't hold your future. I'm sure I I mean I know you're a Bitcoiner. Uh so you you look at Michael Sailor and he had this company Micro Strategy or Micro Strategy at the time and he couldn't grow the revenue and so for like a decade he tried and he tried to acquire companies and start new business lines and he couldn't get the company past about a two or three billion dollar valuation. So he said you know what instead of trying to grow revenue let me try and focus on growing the assets. and he used credit and equity and within five years he took a company that couldn't grow from about two billion to 60 billion, you know, and so we have equity and credit available to us. We just have to learn how to use those. Um, tell us about your journey. So, I think you got started about five or six years ago in 2020. Um, you had like your first credit card. I think you started at about $5,000 and then, you know, built that up to like what over a half a million dollars pretty quickly. Tell us about sort of like how that journey worked.
Yeah, so I kind of mentioned what happened briefly the seven years before that on how I was able to fund different businesses without this great credit product. And it took me many different business ventures to get here, many mistakes to get to the point where I learned about these 0% interest business cards. Uh my first approval was $5,000 and I applied for the wrong card. And then what in a very short period of time and I got this information from business relationship managers who are the the bridge between consumers like us and the underwriters. So I started to understand the inside information the things that the underwriters were looking for. That was much more than just what is the business actually making. It was more than a business plan more than tax returns etc. And I realized it it became very easy to custom customize a personal credit report in a way that the underwriters want to see it. We kind of tricking the bank in a way to make you look more trustworthy um than you are. Actually, that's not the exact way I would say that. We're just optimizing to exactly what they want. Just like when you save money on taxes, you're just catering to exactly what the IRS wants to see. So, if you play the game and do exactly what they want to see, then things become very easy. Um, so in just 14 months, I was approved for over half a million dollars in in business funding on a brand new business. And then I put a lot of that credit into several different drop shipping stores. Very quickly, those drop shipping stores made um well over a million dollars in revenue. And so what I saw there after the after looking at that for seven years of my journey, I was able to fund this brand new business without my own money, without tax returns, without giving away equity, without a business loan, without paying interest. And it put a lot of profit in my pocket. All I needed was good, strong personal credit and building some strategic bank relationships. So that just solved all of my business financing issues over the last seven years. And I have like the best case study ever. So, at that point, I started to teach other people on how to do what I just did, get access to capital, inject it into their business, etc. And so, I've I've coached well over 3,000 entrepreneurs over the last 5 years through my program called Credit Stacking, and it's just done amazing things for people like getting access to capital, putting it into their business. So they can either, you know, increase their their real estate portfolio, do more fix and flips, scale their e-commerce business by getting more inventory, scale their their business by investing in ads or specific key hires. And so that's the main thing I've done professionally over the last 5 years is just coach people on exactly how to get access to the best type of capital for American entrepreneurs. Do you just help them get the capital or do you help them try to understand what may or may not be good uses of capital more so I help them get the capital in general I can guide them on you know if that's a good idea or bad idea but in terms of like the business consulting on how to exactly deploy the capital that's not my that's not my place in in the working relationships that I have with people what would be bad way bad ways to use the capital a bad way to use the capital would be to use it in something that's not going to make a return in 1 to two years because these are 0% cards for 7 to 18 months and so if the return is going to come back in 3 years well you only have 0% for the first 12 7 to 18 months yeah so you want to time it you know quite well and into growth aspects of the business like I think using the capital to join like a mentorship program could be very beneficial But it's not necessarily like directly into growth aspects of the business. It's a little bit more risky. It could be very good where you can get relationships, you can get help on doing specific things, but I like, you know, growth aspects.
Yeah. I would also think like probably like not a startup.
If it's a startup, it's riskier. Like if if someone if if someone is doing their first fix and flip, it's a bit riskier than someone who has already done three and now the model is a little bit proven and now they're just putting gasoline on the fire, right? Yeah. So like some of the things that you mentioned I think about like you know if if I can buy additional inventory I could make more money. So I already have a product that's selling. I've already got my systems my distribution set up. I already already understand my cost per acquisition, my lifetime value of the customer. And so I know if I put more money into this machine, I'll get more money out of the machine, for example. Right. Um in in a way like that or um as you said, I'm doing fix and flips and hey, I could make even more on this bigger one, but I'm going to need a little bit of money. Yeah. And I know that I can get them done in a short period of time, so I could do that. Yeah. Or even using the capital to raise money to get enough money for a down payment on purchasing a business. Like I had one one of the students of mine named William raised $300,000. 150 of it was on these 0% cards and then he purchased a seven figureure assisted living facility and then after a year he was able to refinance and then also use some of the cash flow to pay off some of the cards. So that was a really good example on how he used it to purchase a cash flowing business.
Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, you buy a cash flowing business based off of a multiple of that cash flow. So, typically um service-based businesses are at a three or four times multiple. That would mean on a million-doll business, it should be putting off about $300,000 of of of net income, right, at the end of the year.
So, if I could get a loan, I'm literally buying that $300,000 a year of cash flow.
Mhm.
Right. And as long as the loan the cost of the loan is less than that net income that I'm getting, then it makes sense. It's there's a positive carry on that, right?
But yeah, so so if you're buying an existing business that's like an assisted living center that's proven, there's already people there, you already can see the the numbers, the profit, etc., uh it's a little bit safer versus if I said, "Hey, I'm going to go start this business that I don't know anything about. I don't know if I can make it work or not." Um that'd be a probably pretty bad way. I would also probably agree you said like a mentorship.
I'm not a big fan of of school uh school loans very similar, right? I'm going to spend all this money for school loans. I don't know if I can get a job and pay that back at some point. Mentorship a little bit like that. Education cuz to your point there's no like onetoone mechanism where I get that money back from that. Now, both you and I join mastermind groups all the time because in our proven businesses, one good idea could could make me the money in that business. Um, but I think it's a kind of a different different model. Um, okay. So, explain sort of uh the process that somebody would go through to do something like this. I think you have like a three-step process that somebody would typically follow.
For sure. Yeah. So, the first step of the process is going to be pre-optimization. So, I've mentioned this a couple times, but the most important thing about getting access to this type of credit is building a strong optimized personal credit profile. So, the first thing is always looking at that profile. And so, we break that up into pre-optimization and optimization. So, pre-optimization is to do the things before really building up the personal credit profile. So, things like payment history, utilization, and the average age. So, if someone has negative payment history, like late payments in the last couple years, you want to start a credit repair service to get those things disputed and removed. If there's a collection, things like that, you want to get those things removed. But fortunately, we have very good laws that protect the consumers in the United States where through good strategies, you can dispute those things and get them removed from your credit report. You can dispute any negative thing from your credit report and it it's pretty easy to actually just get it removed. So, that can increase your your score like over 100 points.
Yeah. So the next is looking at your balances. So any personal credit card or revolving account that's over 30% should be paid down to that 30% level, ideally under 10, but 30% it's a really good threshold. And then the third thing I mention is average age. So if you've been working on your credit for many years, maybe your average age is already over 5 years, but if it's under an average age of 2 years, it's very young and that looks very untrustworthy. So you can add authorized users, increase your age. So, those are the three things I would focus on in pre-optimization. And then moving to optimization.
Let's stop on the pre-optimization just for a minute though because like when I talk about things like this, I see all the comments. I can already hear them being typed under this video right now. And you know, it's like, yeah, but that only works if you have good credit or things like that. But like, yes, so you can just get good credit.
You can get you can get good credit if someone has like if you have a collection on your credit report. We also have a credit repair service that can help with this, but you can dispute it and the credit bureaus have very short timelines to prove certain things and if they can't prove it through the Fair Credit Reporting Act of 1970, then the bureaus have to remove it. So, there's really no excuses here. You can remove the negatives.
The excuse is the excuse is you don't want to do the work.
That's the only excuse. Yeah. This process works for everybody. If someone has messed up credit or doesn't have a business yet, you know, the process might be a little bit longer. If there's balances to pay down that you just can't pay down yourself, it might be a little bit longer cuz you do need to get those balances to under 30%. And I don't I don't mean that. I don't want to be condescending when I say that, but kind of going back to Robert Kiasaki's comment on Dave Ramsey, like he's right for most people because most people don't want to take the time to learn how to utilize these types of resources. They don't want to take the time to make sure they have good credit. They don't want to take the time. They don't want to take the time to learn how to manage these things. Figure out how I could borrow it at 0% and make 5 or 10%. But it's all there. It's all readily available. There's ways you can learn. There's services that can hire. And so I I say that only more as a challenge to my audience because my audience hopefully is not the victim mentality where it's like, "Oh, this will never work for me, but rather like, oh, I could see how I could make it work." And so we'll stop we'll keep going. But step number one is make sure you have good credit. And I know that's where a lot of people get stuck. That's why it's step number one. But you can just fix it. You can build it. And and a true story for me was after 2008, I got smashed here in Southern California real estate and I got wiped out and I had to do multiple short sales. I had foreclosures on my credit. I didn't declare bankruptcy cuz I just wanted to work it out with all my creditors as best I could so I didn't ruin those relationships. But needless to say, my credit was just completely torched. It would have been
What was the Sorry. What was the lowest score? Do you remember?
I don't even know to be honest with you. I I don't even know. I I stopped I stopped looking. You know what I mean? I just knew it wasn't wasn't going to be good. And uh and uh you know, I didn't I it probably would have been better if I did a bankruptcy just to clear it all off and start over, but I didn't, right? So then these things dragged on for years as I was working these processes out, right? And then I had PTSD, so I was like, I'm never going to use credit again. And so then I didn't even work to like rebuild it. And so um yeah, I got I got crushed. So, if anybody thinks they have bad credit, you you haven't seen bad credit yet. Um, but but you know, I was able to rebuild it, right? It took some time, you know, uh, some well, some of the stuff had to pass, right? You have to allow the the age of it to to pass a little bit, right? I had to start establishing some some some entrylevel credit. And now I can go back and buy pretty much whatever I want today. But, but it was a process that I had to get there. And so, anyway, a little bit of encouragement for anybody listening, like if I could rebuild my credit, almost anybody could.
I think that that's a good thing to point out because you had a lot of patience and you put and you put in the work and sometimes people people think oh I want the funding tomorrow or next week or next month. Some people can get the funding next month but maybe they've been working on it already or some people that are just starting maybe it's a 3 month, four month process. So it really depends but some some work's required to to get into it or it's really to get to the point where then you're ready for funding.
Yeah.
So that that second pillar we focus on is the optimization. So this is things like do you have enough personal credit cards on your report? Is there a tier one credit card? Like at the top four banks like Chase, Bank of America, City, and Wells Fargo. That's a tier one bank. If you have a personal credit card from one of those banks, your profile looks better. If you have multiple, it looks even better. So we want to see at least one tier one account on the profile. And then three would be what is your collective personal credit limits? If you add up your personal credit limits, what is that collective number? minimum we want to see is 15,000. The optimal range is between 40 and 90,000. So you want to get above 40 ideally. So that's what we do in optimization.
And 40 with a a balance of 10% ideally no more than 30%.
Yes. Correct. And so once pre-optimization's done, the payment history is good, your average age is increased if needed, your balance are paid down, and your credit report is updated. So, your scores are going to be now in the 700s or a 680 plus. Then you want to apply for a high limit personal credit card. That's going to that's going to add a tier one account to your profile if you need it. It's going to increase your collective limits. So, high limit personal credit card, that would be like a Chase Freedom Unlimited or a Chase Sapphire Preferred. Uh there there's a few, but those are the top two that we generally recommend. And we recommend those for three reasons. One, I've mentioned this, it's tier one account. Two, it's from our high limit personal credit card list. So it increases your collective limits which makes you look more trustworthy. So the banks will lend higher limits on the business side. And then three, you're building a credit relationship with a bank that has ideal 0% business credit cards. So in contrary, if you get a credit card at a credit union, well that credit union is not a tier one account. It might give you a high limit, but it's also not a bank that probably has a good 0% card. So, you want to be very strategic and intentional about everything you do on your credit. And so, we recommend those personal cards for those three exact reasons. Okay?
So, that would be optimization. Okay. So, I got to tell you what I've been doing with my money lately. I moved my cash over to River. And before you ask, yes, I still pay all my bills and dollars. Everything works the same. But here's the real difference. You see, River pays me 3.3% on my cash and they pay it in Bitcoin. So, my money that was just sitting there doing nothing at all in the bank, it's now stacking Bitcoin while I sleep. And I started thinking like, my bank takes my deposits, they loan those deposits out, they make 12, 17, 24% and they pay me 0.04%. I mean, honestly, that's kind of a shakeddown when you think about it. Now, River's FDIC insured. They use Full Reserve. They charge no fees. So, I don't know why I didn't do this sooner. So, click the link down below and get $100 in Bitcoin just for getting started. There's like different types of credit. So, um I uh just got a new Raptor R, uh that's coming.
Looks sick, by the way.
Uhhuh.
Looks sick, by the way.
Well, that's the regular Raptor, but I have a R an R that's coming right now, and I was just buying it. And uh
Well, that's the regular Raptor, but I have a R an R that's coming right now, and I was just buying it. And uh
Anyway, that Ford Ford gave me gave me a loan for it, right? And um I was like, what? No, my credit report's way better than that. What are you talking about? That's not my score. Whatever. And they're like, well, you know, the car credit is a little bit different than like the general credit. And so they sort of like broke that apart and I so I was like I was still good enough and like high quality but it was a little bit less than what I was expecting. Um and then also there's other types of credit where I've heard like people could get um credit for like paying their bills on time even like rent things like that. Do do those things help?
Yeah. So so like rent reporting services they can help. Okay. more so for someone that has thinner payment history or in the position where you were rebuilding your credit, having a rent reporting service that reports your rent payment every single month can certainly help. So, what you're talking about is different different credit scores for a mortgage, for an auto, and for for these types of credit cards we're talking about, which is true. The score like things can on your credit report can affect your mortgage score as well as the the auto score, okay? But they're going the for the auto score they're going to appreciate history on auto loans. And so maybe I mean I'm sure you have you've had many but maybe if you didn't had many then the score would reflect that because the average age would be affected.
Yeah. I think I've only bought I mean since I've been rebuilding my credit which has now been what seven eight years but I've only um I think I've financed two or three cars so not a whole lot right. I was paying cash for everything after I had PTSD. I'm like I'm never financing everything. I'm paying cash. Um, but yeah, a couple cars. Um, okay. So, there are different types um that you can build into. And then what's the third stage?
The third stage, before I get to the third stage, I actually just sold my Mercedes-Benz GLE 63.
Yeah.
And I sold it to buy more Bitcoin.
Okay.
And I remember having a great conversation with you. And another thing that the conversation with you changed is I was also going to purchase a Forplex in Miami. And I was getting pretty close. I had some offers in, they just weren't getting accepted. And then I was just really looking at the price of Bitcoin. It went down to 62. It was in the 60s for a long time. And I'm just like, what if I just put the liquidity I was going to put in this forplex into Bitcoin? Is that going to make me a much better return over the next 1 2 5 10 years? You said yeah. And I for sure agreed. And so ultimately I made the decision to buy more Bitcoin when it was at 625. And then I also sold my my car and I bought more Bitcoin. And you've already made more money on that one trade than you would have owning that forplex for the next five or 10 years
Possibly,
right? I mean, real estate's going up, but 5% a year, right? But by the time you pay insurance and maintenance and taxes, it's like it's pretty tough these days.
Um, okay. Well, good. Congratulations on that.
And then you can loan against it at 5%. Which I love.
Yeah. I mean, the thing is is like if you can just get past in your head, okay, I it's a tool I can use. And I understand tools are risky. I mean, shops, you know, garage shops, they there's there's risk there, but I could learn how to use them and I could try and figure it out. And like one of my favorite things um I've been watching I've been utilizing for some of my own cash is uh Stretch and and SATA, which is a very similar one. Stretch pays 11 a.5%. Not tax. It's not it's not income, so it's not tax like income. And then there's SAT, it's paying 13%. So it's like a stable coin basically, right? If you could just borrow $100,000 at 0%.
Mhm.
And throw it into that, that's that's uh 13 grand a year that you're getting paid on that.
They're paying 13%.
Satis paying 13%.
Wow. Okay. So, there would be a fee to I mean, I wonder if they accept credit card payments.
Oh, right. Because you got to get the money off of the credit card to buy an asset like that.
Correct. Which maybe they accept credit cards. Maybe they don't. But even if they didn't, you can liquidate the credit off the card for a 3 to 6% fee. There's ways to self liquidate, which is getting the credit off of the card into cash without doing a cash advance. The lowest you can do that for is is 3%. When I was on the Bradley podcast last month, he said through his processor, there's a way to do it for 0%, but I haven't learned that.
Okay.
But anyways, there are ways to get the the credit off of the card into cash. So then you can use your cash to get into an investment like that.
Something like that. Yeah. So, I mean something even if you pay the 3%. You're still up uh whatever 7 8 9% spread.
Yeah.
Right. And so it's like free money and then even if you can't roll it over like you said, so I have to pay it back in 12 14 16 months. Well, I have the money. I've made now at this point $20,000 and then just give the money back.
Totally.
You know, so um and that's just one simple way that you can utilize something like this. Um, okay. So was there a third step now?
Yeah, there was a third step. So the third step and you can do this step this pillar simultaneously but it's all about building strategic relationships with the banks. So I touched on relationships like through credit relationships through this high limit personal card but in general we're going to break down credit relationships and and banking relationships. So to build a banking relationship you can do things like go open a personal checking account, go open a business checking account with the bank and then if you put some money in the account there's some activity etc. They're going to start to trust you a lot more. So I would rank the banks to build relationships in bank relationships uh from Chase to Bank of America to Wells Fargo. So Chase, it's the easiest to get the highest limits. And so they just want to see some sort of relationship there. They don't need to see a bunch of revenue really. They don't see any revenue, but they do want to see some liquidity in the account. Like a few thousand is going to help. If that's sitting there for a 60-day time frame, it's going to help even more. So having that business checking account is very beneficial at Chase. Same with Wells Fargo and at Bank of America. What I'll say about Bank of America is they really appreciate and pretty much require seeing revenue at Bank of America. So if your business doesn't have revenue, then just leave Bank of America off the table. But if it does have revenue, I would recommend you want to show Bank of America that revenue. So that's building the bank relationships.
Did you rank all those three the same or did you rank them in descending order Wells Fargo's at the bottom? descending order. Wells Fargo is at the bottom of the three. So,
of course, that's my bank. So,
Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo. Okay, all very good. And there's other banks you can keep going down the list, but if I was to boil down to three, that's how I would boil it down. And then we look at the credit relationship side. So, building relationships with banks through the credit cards. So, like American Express, they kind of have bank accounts, but it's like a kind of like a fintech bank account. It's not like a legit real bank account. So, I don't really recommend to go open a bank account at American Express. Instead, I'd recommend building a credit relationship, either by getting a personal credit card at American Express or get one of their easier business credit cards than uh one of their easier credit cards to get approved for, the MX Business Gold. The reason this card is easier to get approved for is because it's a charge card. There's no there's no limit. There's a there's a spending power and they start your spending power very low. So, it's very easy to get this card. You want to build a relationship through MX on this business gold before applying for this MX Blue Business Plus card. This is the 0% card. You want to get the high limit on this card. So, if you build a credit relationship with American Express, by the time you apply for their 0% card, you're going to get a much bigger limit. And they have the they have the blue plus and the blue cash, so you can get like 25K on each.
The limits can go up over time.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> Why do you carry so many cards? Just for illustration purposes?
>> No. So, this is just my my small stack right here. These are the cards I use on a weekly basis.
>> Wow.
>> Uh I have a much larger book that has easily over 50 and it's been much higher in the past.
>> 50 different cards,
>> 50 different cards at over 20 different banks. It really depends on if it's a 0% card and I'm leveraging the 0%. It depends on what business um I have it transactions or expenses on. It depends on where I'm spending the money. Am I using this card for dining? Okay, I'm going to use this card. Am I using uh if I spending money on travel, I'm going to use this card. Is it personal or is it business? So, like business travel, I'll put on the Chase Sapphire Reserve for business. If it's personal travel, I'll put on the Chase Sapphire Preferred or the Chase Sapphire Reserve personal card. Okay.
>> If it's business dining, I'll do the MX Business Gold because it'll give me four points per dollar spent. If I'm doing personal dining, I'll put it on the Chase Strata Elite card because that gives me the most points for personal dining. Everything else on personal if it doesn't fit into travel or dining, I put on my personal everything else card, which is either the built card or the Capital One Venture gives me two points per dollar spent.
What's the built card?
>> The build card is a card where you can pay rent on >> or your mortgage payment. And there's there's some fees. It used to be no fees, but if you spend enough money on a monthly basis on the built card, I think only like 2,000 bucks a month, then your rent payment or mortgage payment will not have fees. And you get two points per dollar spent on everything else, excluding rent, but like everything else, which two points per dollar spent should be your floor. So, two points is my floor. If it's travel, I put on my travel card and earn more than two points. If it's dining, I'll put on my dining card and get much more than two points. So everything I'm spending money on, I'm earning at least two points per dollar spent. And then if you think about where you can transfer these points from the bank portal from Chase or American Express to different airlines, you can learn about different deal softwares like seats. And understand where to transfer your points to, for example, from American Express to ANA Airlines. And then you can book a lot Polish flight for 50,000 points from Chicago to Poland in business class.
So yesterday I woke up in Brazil.
>> Yeah.
>> Last week I was in Poland,
>> man. And just I see you flying everywhere all the time and you're on planes I never even seen before. Like you're on planes that have like your own like suite and your own shower and I never even seen that before.
>> It's it's it's pretty it feels pretty surreal because I never used to travel like this. I'd get the cheapest ticket flying the back of the flight. But I flew from Chicago to to Poland for 50,000 points in business class. I flew from Warsaw down to Miami, 50,000 points business class. Miami down to Sa Paulo, Brazil, different airline, but 50,000 points business class. And then back after my week in Brazil. So, it's a two the points game is is a little bit of a different strategy than the 0% interest business funding game,
>> but they together, right? They can work together, but if your intention is, let me get as much 0% as possible right now,
>> the cards you would apply for would be different. And some of those cards will yield a lot of points, but not all of them. If your strategy right now is, let me get as much points as possible. Let me get the best reward cards, the best travel cards. That that strategy is a little different, but they they do have some overlap.
>> Okay. Do you do both?
>> For sure. So now, like I'm not in a phase right now where I'm getting like a ton of 0% capital. I can snap my finger and get 200k approved and if I have an opportunity to do that, I will. But right now, I've just been I've had the best reward cards and if there's new elevated signup bonuses that come out, I'll get that card and get that signup bonus. Like this Chase Sapphire Reserve for Business, I think the signup bonus was either 200,000 or 250,000. Probably 200,000. I just recently got it like four or five months ago.
>> 200,000
>> 200,000 points.
>> Yeah.
>> There's a new Bank of America Atmos card, which is the new Alaska Airlines card. That's a 100,000 point sign up. I just got the Marriott card two months ago. And that's
>> at what point does this become um too many and then it's like detrimental to your credit report?
>> That's a great question. So, when it comes to personal credit cards, they obviously report to the personal credit report. When you get business credit cards, they don't report to your personal credit report. They just don't show up. You're personally liable for the debt, but they are not showing up on your personal report. So, you can get 10 business credit cards in the same day and get approved for all of them, and it won't negatively affect your personal report. They'll give you some hard inquiries, but basically doesn't affect your report that much.
>> Do do those go do those drop off pretty quickly?
>> They do drop off. So after a year they don't they they're on but they don't have any weight on your report. After two years they fall off. Okay. And there's also very easy ways where you can dispute these hard inquiries and get them removed from your credit profile.
>> Yeah.
>> When it comes to personal credit cards, if you apply for more than two personal credit cards in a short period of time, which is how long?
>> Six months. Okay. If you apply for more than two personal credit cards in a six-month period, then it becomes difficult to get approved for any business credit cards >> because the bank sees you applying for a lot of things and you'll get denied for too many recently opened credit card accounts.
>> So, that's why I said five minutes ago, you want to be extremely strategic and intentional with the things you're doing on your personal credit report. Mhm.
>> Again, if your strategy is to get ready for 0% interest funding, that strategy is different than get all the the best point guards.
>> Yeah. Got it.
>> But when you pair both up, I mean, the combination, there's been there's been three things that have changed my life more than anything.
>> Getting access to 0% interest capital that I can inject into businesses, investments that make me more money. Two is going to be understand tax strategy on how I can use the IRS tax code to save me a lot of money in tax to keep more of that money that I made into my pocket. And then three is having the best credit cards that earn me the most points on every dollar that I spend. And then understanding I can transfer those points from the bank to different airlines and get the most insane deals where I can spend 50,000 points on business class instead of spending $7,000. Yeah.
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Is that also because um you can just do whatever you want. Your schedule is super flexible and you can just grab a flight if it shows up. Because like my wife tries to book everything for me with miles, but like I'm dropping like hundreds of thousands of miles typically to get a business class ticket.
>> A lot.
>> Yeah. The most I've ever spent on business class is 150,000. That was a 14-hour Q Suites business class flight from Dohawk Qatar to Texas. 150. I didn't like spending that cuz that that's a lot.
>> But um it just I mean just to go to Alaska last week, it was going to be I want to say it was like three or 400,000 miles. So we end up paying cash. It was like three grand for the ticket or something like that. You know,
>> business class. Yeah.
>> A long way to long long way to Anchorage. Uh but uh but yeah, it was going to be like hundreds of thousands of miles. So when I hear 50,000 miles, I'm like what what flights are those?
>> Yeah. I think so to your question exactly like are you just so flexible you can go whenever?
>> There is a balance because like sometimes I do need to get places and sometimes you can get fortunate and there's like the perfect option for you and other times you and other times the options just don't show up. So if you do have some flexibility it becomes very helpful. But however, like I just went down to Brazil, as I mentioned, for a wedding and I found the perfect dates that fit for the wedding that I need to go to and I was just in Poland before and I had a flight from Miami. So I was like, cool. I go from Poland to Miami, stayed in Miami for a few days, did some business in Miami and then I had my Miami to Brazil flight. So in that scenario in Miami, I had some things to do and I was a little bit flexible. So I'm like, cool, let me stay for two, I think it was three days. Yeah. And because
>> and you probably got the the stays comp too.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So tell me about that side.
>> Uh I mean so the hotels you don't get as good of deals. Like when I talking about when I talk about getting 50,000 point business class flights instead of 7,000 that's over a that's over a 10 you're getting more more than 10 times value on that multiple of 50,000 cuz 50,000 points in the bank portal in AMX is worth $500. M.
>> So, I just used 50,000 points worth $500 of travel in the bank portal to book a $7,000 flight.
>> Yeah.
>> And I was able to do that because once the points are in the airline currency, they're not a fixed value.
>> When you use your points in the portal, it's fixed value. Maybe you'll get a 20% boost, 50% boost, but it's basically fixed. So, with the hotels, you can do the same thing. Transfer your points from the bank to the hotel portal, Marriott, Hilton, etc. But you just don't get as good of multiples.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Maybe 3x, 5x if you're lucky, but you won't get 10x like I do on flights.
>> Okay. So, do you have to use credit cards for the hotels?
>> Yeah. Either credit card points or free night award vouchers, which come with some of the best credit cards. Um, or you just pay cash straight up. But, uh, it depends. I like getting a good deal. So, if the good deal is not there on points, then I'll just pay the cash because then the cash I get the business write off. But if it's such a good deal, then I'll use the points.
>> Yeah. I mean, that's that that that's a pretty good perks. It sounds like, and you know, again, I I haven't been on those flights. My wife handles that mostly. It seems like a lot of work. I mean, do you have to have some sort of like AI system that manages all this for you?
>> You know, that when I talk about this, a lot of people will say the same thing. It sounds like a lot of work. And I don't know if it's just I love it so much >> or it's like a combination of, you know, I love it and it's it's some work. But >> it's some work for sure, but I just love being able to spend 50,000 points on something instead of 400,000.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, I like to be creative with my resources. And >> I think it takes some time to figure it out. But >> once you get the in the rhythm of it, then it then you start to understand how to move a little bit more efficiently and not take a bunch of time to book things. Like there's different newsletters that can send you deals. There's deal softwares that basically acts as like a Google flights. You put in where you're trying to go. You're you put in the airport you're leaving from, the date range, and then it searches for you. And then it shows you, okay, these are the options that you can book for 50,000 or 70,000 or 100,000, and these are the airlines. Okay, so who is what banks are partnered with those airlines? Okay, Chase is partnered with with Turkish. Okay, I can transfer that. If that deal is live on Turkish for 65,000, I'll transfer from Chase to Turkish. Boom, you got the points. Then you booked it. Okay, so some are easier than others. Some you have to get more creative and or be more flexible.
Getting out of the credit for a minute. I want to come back to it, but getting out of it for a minute, um I mean, dude, you were like I I took my daughter snowboarding to Canada trying to catch the snow. We couldn't even fly in the helicopter. It was snowing so bad. I see you're over I think in the Alps and you were snowboarding and you were just getting the bluebird turns. I was so jealous. So you're over was it the Alps? You were Shaman? Was it Shami or something?
>> Shamani was two years ago. I was in Sen, Austria.
>> Okay. You're in Austria and uh then you're in Poland and you just got back from uh from Brazil. Um like tell me about the business like how are you how do you how do you manage the business while you're traveling all over the world like that?
>> Yeah. So, I definitely one I have an amazing team and amazing systems that took me years to build and a good offer and good marketing and like a lot of good things behind the scenes, but I go in in different phases where I'll go home and work really hard for like one to two months >> and then I'll go have some fun >> and then when I'm having fun, I'll still work and you'll have some meetings and stay up with the content and things like that, but I'll kind of go in phases where like I'm super locked in right now and then Well, go have some fun, go see some people, go travel, business travel, etc.
>> Do you time that or plan that out throughout the year or do you kind of go off of your feel or sort of whatever pops up?
>> Kind of off my feel, whatever pops up, although I do have my calendar kind of filled out for a good good bit of the year. So,
>> yeah, combination.
>> Okay.
>> But yeah, I I do think like a good team is crucial. you you need some A players, you need good automations, you need to integrate AI in different parts of the business to save you a lot of time.
>> Yeah.
>> So, like for example, with what you do and with what I do as well, I assume AI has been super helpful to help create content for you in terms of like scripts for videos or different ideas for videos. So maybe something that used to used to take you 10 hours only takes you an hour maybe to like prepare for a video potentially. It certainly saves me a lot of time. So finding ways where you can leverage these amazing tools that we we now have to save time to do the same task and you know you can be much more efficient doing that. Yeah.
>> I also have like a team of over 20 uh employees from the Philippines who are absolutely amazing. I've worked with all of them for the last two years. And you know when you can leverage lowcost talent like that it becomes you know you save a lot of money and you have really good people working on tasks. And what I one thing I realized is like one of our Filipinos she manages a lot of our optimization process of our done for you funding service and she quickly became better at the system that I made than me >> and it's because I'm the the CEO. I'm focusing about a million things. Marketing, operations, sales, partnerships, right?
>> Podcasts. Yeah.
>> So, I'm scattered.
>> When I built it and I taught her the system, she became better at it than me because that's all she focused on.
>> You know, three, four, five things, >> not a 100 things, >> right?
>> And so now I'm paying someone for a fraction of what I could pay in the US. And now she's better at a system that I made than me.
>> Yeah. So that that was really >> a big eye opener for me to think like I can bring this type of of human resource on and to see them perform at such a high level >> and then to start to integrate some of the AI stuff we now have access to. It's really pretty cool.
One word I hear you keep resurfacing over and over, it's like leverage. So it's like leveraging cheap debt to buy good assets. um leveraging cheap jet to scale your business to make more money, leveraging point systems to uh get better returns on travel, or leveraging other people's time and systems to free up your time as well.
>> So, I think that's a really key piece that I think is just worth worth double clicking into because it's like leverage I think about getting more output for more input. And I've seen you I've seen you go home and you're like, okay, I'm locked in. I'm putting systems into place right now. So, you sort of come home, what >> what isn't working good? where can I put new systems into place? Right. And then you kind of install that, build that leverage, and then you sort of disappear again and then sort of stress test that.
>> Yeah, for sure.
>> Yeah. Good thing to point out the the stress test. Like I remember this is I I'm now stress testing things a lot less because so much is in place. But going on trips a year ago, two years ago, it would really stress test the systems we put in place. We saw what worked, we saw what wouldn't work, and then we'd come back, like you said, and then we would fix those things. Yeah. or enhance the the systems, etc. And and that was really cool. And I also think when you have a trip on the calendar, it it in a sense it forces you to get certain things done before that deadline. And so you're working super hard. I need to fix this before I leave. I need to train this person before I leave. I need to do all these things. So by by the time you leave, so much has just put in place.
I want to I want to wrap it up by asking one last thing which is uh we talked about like trying to understand what can go wrong and um understand so we can mitigate those risks. So if there was a major credit event that happened in the next say 24 months how would that affect your system that you have up right now in terms of a tough economy I think >> and and not and the ability to not get credit if if credit if credit tightened up.
>> I think if credit tightens up, the thing is people are always looking for money. And what I think I have is the best most effective strategy on getting access to on getting access to capital. So if the lending is really good, cool. My best strategies will get our clients a ton of capital. In a tougher market when when money is a little tighter, I believe my strategies are the best and will still get them the most amount of capital. It might be at that point maybe just 70,000 bucks instead of 250,000 bucks. But I think we have the best strategies that gives the person the highest chance of getting the most capital approved. So things will tighten up. Maybe limits will be smaller. Maybe some banks won't be approving as much. But I think by being so far on the front lines of everything, being in touch with relationship managers, understanding what these banks are looking for, then you get the the best chance of getting the capital approved.
>> Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, um, as I said earlier, it sounds like a lot of work. Um, you must have some systems, which obviously you do. Tell us, uh, where people can learn more if they want to figure out how they can work with you or or what that looks like, where they should follow.
>> So, within scale funding, our done for you funding service. This is where we look at someone's credit report. We hold their hand through optimization and then we help them get access to the funding. This this can be between 70,000 150,000 for 0% for the next 7 to 18 months. So that's scalewithfunding.com/markboss.
>> Cool. We'll put the link down below. Um, we'll link to your um Instagram account so everyone could watch you just uh use these MRI flights around the world taking showers or whatever you're doing, having these amazing dinners. And wrap it up with that. Thanks, Jack.
>> Awesome. Thank you, Mark. Thanks, everyone.