Declaring God's Word for Victory Over Your Life @Bobbyschuller

This is what faith and victory is about. It's about learning the Bible so you can say it aloud. And you say it enough that you spread it around. You create a community of faith. And then the miracles and stuff start to start to bubble up and happen. There's no better way to change your personal behavior than to get around people that have the attributes, the faith, the joy that you want to have. Here's what gives you peace and rest: it's the Holy Spirit. Knowing that no matter where I am, God does heal and God will heal me. No matter where I am, God will provide everything I need.

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Pastor Bobby, thanks for being here. I'm excited that you're here and I have a really pleasant memory to share with you. You probably don't even remember this now. I know you remember going onto a youth TV network where I used to be one of the co-hosts. So they would rotate me out with different guests, and we would have several different guests coming through that network. You can probably relate to this in that that phrase, "Don't meet your heroes," is sometimes true because sometimes the people are a little distant, a little cold, a little stuffy. And I remember we had a string of guests who were just very difficult, very, you know, standoffish. And I'll never forget when you came on to set and you just stood out from any of the guests that we had prior, at least to me, because your kindness, the way you interacted with everyone. You were talking with everyone from the hosts to the camera people to the people at craft services, and you were just spreading this joy, this warmth. And I remember thinking, "That's a man of God right there." And I remember every time you came on set, I was, I, I breathed a sigh of relief of like, "Okay, we got, we got a, we got a good man on set today." So I'm glad you're here, my friend. That's my first really encouraging thank you.

I'm embarrassed to tell you, I don't remember that. I was told him yesterday, I was like, "He says we did this show." I remember interviewing you, yeah, on a praise, I think a couple times. Was it Praise or something? It was Praise and then they did, they did a couple youth specials on Praise the Lord. Yeah. Yes. And I think probably in that stage of my life too, I was doing a, I think I had a book or something. So I was like, "T-". I do remember you. I just don't remember that first moment.

Well, my hopes and dreams are crushed. They come down to the, "I remember you. I remember you. I don't remember the..." And I do remember you because look how far God's brought you, you know? Obviously, His anointing was on your life. And how old? Forgive me, ask. 34? 32? 35? 35. Yeah. So, I mean, you're just getting started. And wow, I just can't wait to see where God's going to take you. And I'm such a, it's such a privilege to be here with you. It was such a privilege to know you all these years and to see you, you know, start there in youth television and now being here with your amazing team. I mean, these guys are incredible. You've got a, you got an all-star team. So, um, it's, it's really my privilege to be here with you, my friend.

Well, thank you. One of the things I, I really enjoy when I watch your content is there's, it's a very, it's very peaceful, very joy-filled, it's very Spirit-filled. And even when I'm kind of scrolling through the algorithm, I'm looking at different pieces of content, a lot of things today are very sensational, very in-your-face, almost looking for an emotional reaction to cause fear or anger. And then it's like breaking through that noise, we have content like yours where there's this peace. And there's this phrase you say, remind me of what it is, but it's something along the lines of, "No need to worry, no need to hurry." That's the part that stands out to me, but there's more to that.

Yeah. So hurry and worry are our partners, right? And worry is such an important part of the devil's strategy for our lives. It's really important to the enemy and to the little imps that have been assigned to you in the spirit to make sure you're worrying about things that aren't important, or even worse, worrying about things that are important and in effect saying, "I just don't trust God with this." And so one of the things we remind people is that worry is almost always manifested in hurry. So if I'm late for something, I'm in a hurry. But at the heart of that is a worry. I'm worried about being late. But, but inversely, there's so many times where we're not late for something, but we're still in a hurry. And what's that about? And what's happening is there's a, there's a franticness, you know, inside of us. And this spirit of hurry actually keeps us from doing the greatest thing, which is to love our neighbor. And so when we're, when we're always hurrying and trying to get somewhere, it's very, very hard for us to notice like our spouse is hurting, you know, or our kids just need to talk to us real quick, or somebody on our team. Or, or even financially, if you're trying to, if you're asking God for a million-dollar idea, it's, it's not going to come to you when you're in a hurry. It's going to come to you when you're relaxed. So hurry is a, so we feel like if we're in a hurry, that we're important. And if I'm worried, I care. But both of those are lies, right? And, and I think that's a big mistake. So we literally every Sunday in church, we say like this basic, like prayer that goes, "I'm not what I do." Which is true, by the way. It's hard for a lot of Christians to swallow that Ephesians passage and others because of what Christ has done for us. "I'm not what I've done or what I do." And we mean it mainly like what I do for a living, but it's also true that if I sin or if I make a mistake, I need to come to the cross quickly. So, you know, and just omit that as quickly as possible so the enemy doesn't get a foothold in my life. So we say, "I'm not what I do. I'm not what I have. I'm not what people say about me. I'm the beloved of God. It's who I am. No one can take it from me. I don't need to hurry. I don't need to worry. I can trust my friend Jesus and share His love with my neighbor." So we just do that in church before, you know, every church service, we do that because I think hurry and worry is at the core of our lack of miracles. Hurry and worry is at the core of our, it's a reflection of us not believing God's word. It's a reflection of us walking by sight and not by faith. And, um, you know, go and it's, it, it also comes, you know, it leads to unforgiveness. You're at the airport and you're late for your flight, and it's your own fault because you left late, right? Instead of leaving early, which is wise, leaving late is foolish. And there's some, you're in a hurry and there's somebody in front of you, and she's, it's like a sweet old lady, right? She's, it's taking her too long to get her laptop out. And then she decides to look at the TSA guy and ask him how his day is, right? Oh, what? Like she's, she's one acting like a believer, right? And you're like, "Oh, oh." And what's in your heart is this thing that Jesus tells us to be careful of. "Fool" is what you're thinking. You're looking at her going, "Fool, you fool, you fool, you fool, fool, fool, you fool, you fool." And this mantra is, if you pay attention, you may not be saying it aloud, but you might immediately, like, if, if she's not, like, if in your car, nobody can hear you, go, "Stupid." Right? What a stupid. That's fool, right? Stupid, you fool, right? And this is all coming from, all coming from hurry.

Wow. Right? Yeah. And so that message you preach, I mean, it's, it's a core theme. I wouldn't say it's the only message you preach. You pastor in Orange County, California. Yeah. It's one of the busiest, fast-paced places in the nation. How's that message typically received by the congregation or even from the people who are visiting?

Yeah, I mean, it's an important message. It's an important message for Americans because we're just in a hurry. You know, it's, this is, this is what I would say my core message is: stand on God's word. M. Don't stand on what you see. You, you, you, every day you have a choice. You know, I see that I'm sick in my body, but I see that the word says that I'm healed. So now I have a choice. Do I believe God's word? Do I walk by faith? Or do I believe what I see? The way we increase our faith, the Bible tells us, we don't increase our faith through worship, although worship is amazing. We don't increase our faith through prayer. We want to pray. We increase our faith from the word. Faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by what? The word. The word. Yeah. So, so it is meditating on, eating the, the word is bread. You don't eat bread once a week, right? You eat bread every day unless you're on a low-carb [Laughter] diet. He texts, PR. But, but it, it, that's how we increase our faith. And, and so we've got to stand on God's word. And when Jesus is talking about the word that goes forth, there's the four places it lands, right? The, the road and the, the birds come and eat it. That's like level one. We were talking, I was talking to you about this yesterday, Ruben, that that level two is tribulations, challenges, tough times, right? And actually, that level two is good for us. Intuitively, we look back and we go, "That was good for me." It was good for me to be persecuted for my faith, right? It was, it was good for me that I got fired. It was good for me, you know, when I was up all those nights with that baby, which you're going through right now. Yeah. I got the night shift. Yes. Yeah, the night shift rocking the baby to like, right now, it's terrible. You look back, you're like, "That was amazing." Yeah. I'm glad. So tribulations are not as hard for our spiritual life because it's plain. We know what it is. Then it's three, level three, before you get to get for is remember, right? Is the weeds, the thorns and thistles. And the thorns and the thistles, and Jesus tells us plainly, that's the riches and the worries of this world. He puts those two things together. Now, nobody here, anybody here against being rich? Are you against being rich? I'm not either, right? Deuteronomy tells us that God gives us the ability to create wealth, right? The scripture says, "I wish that you be what?" Do it. How does it say, uh, John, third John 1? "Oh, I wish that you would prosper even as your soul. I wish that you would prosper and be in good health even as your soul prospers, right?" It's either true or it's not. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all these things." What's he talking about? Clothing and food, right? So, so at no point does God want us to be poor. He's, but, but there is something about, this is, this is the way I would say it. I've, I've been on over 20, 20 missionary trips. I've tra, I've been on tons of crusades and traveled and preached all over the world. Rich countries are worried countries. The richer a country is, the more worried it is. And what an irony. Who has a right to be worried in America? I mean, I hope that doesn't seem insensitive, but when you go to a place like Nepal or Swaziland, which I don't think exists anymore, or other parts of Africa and different country, you, different really poor countries, the believers there are not worried. Right? They're persecuted. They're, they, they're often hungry. A lot of times they're sick. They live, they share and live together. They help each other with chores. Most people in America have a car. Yeah. That's unbelievable. Um, most people are not wor, we are worried about like not getting a house, right? You know, and then God wants you to have a house. I, I, I hope everybody listening. But my point is, I think the reason rich countries are worried countries is because very often the wealth that we have didn't come from God, and we're putting our, we're putting our our trust in the, the wealth rather than our trust in the God, in God. And one thing that I would encourage any wealthy or business people that are believers is, don't try and accumulate so much money today that you don't have to trust God tomorrow.

Can you elaborate on that?

Yeah, there is something in people's heart that says, "When I get enough money, I won't be worried anymore." No, that's not right. Th- this is going through lots of Americans' heads right now. "When I get enough money, I won't have to worry anymore." Or, "I won't have to work anymore." No, that's wrong. God tells us, "Thou shalt work six days a week." Right? Remember what he says about the guy who has the silo full of grain? He's filled up a silo full of grain, and he says, "I've built bigger barns, filled them full of grain." And he says, "Now I'm going to eat, drink, and be merry." And then what do God say? This is Jesus talking, by the way. It's not Old Testament. What does Jesus, what does God say? "This day you shall die." Yeah. Right? Because you're useless to the kingdom now. If your goal is to store up a bunch of grain and eat, drink, and be merry, yeah, God's not going to probably strike you dead, but spiritually you're going to die. And by the way, people who retire die really fast. They don't have any purpose in your life. So, so people think, "When I get enough money, I won't be worried anymore. I'll have peace and rest. When I finish my project, I'll have peace and rest in my life. Um, when I get married," for the single people, "I have peace and rest in my life." Right? "When I finally get pregnant, I'll have peace and rest in my life." Having kids, a lot, right? "When I finally achieve my business goals, when I finally start a ministry, when I finally finish school." So we're perpetually waiting for some event or some amount of money or some person to bring us peace and rest. And I can tell you that I've had all those things I just mentioned. Those do not bring peace and rest. They might for a week or so. Here's what gives you peace and rest: that's the Holy Spirit. Knowing that no matter where I am, God does heal and God will heal me. No matter where I am, God will provide everything I need. I don't have to worry about clothes. I can say, based on Matthew 6, that I'm going to have really nice clothes all the days of my very long life, right? That's the word of God. I don't have to worry about food. I'm going to have really good food for the rest of my very long life. I don't have to worry about that. God's going to provide, and He always does, and He always will. He responds to faith, not need. And when you worry, see, here's the funny thing. Worry is just, it's like low-grade perpetual fear. You, if you're afraid of it, you're attracting it, right? If you're afraid of it, you're attracting it. You attract what you're afraid of. And especially when you speak, when you speak fear, you are attracting it. So fear is actually not what you feel. It's, it's what you really, what you feel and then say in response. If you feel afraid, but say God's word, you're not, from a spiritual standpoint, I think you're not from a spiritual standpoint actually afraid. You're at that point, you're courageous. You're doing the opposite of what you feel by acting and saying God's word. Yeah, because if you're agreeing with that, speaking according to that, thinking according to that, you're developing thought patterns and feelings around what that fear is saying, as opposed to what God's word is saying. I heard somebody remark, it wasn't me, I wish it was, but somebody said that the opposite of faith is not doubt. The opposite of faith is fear. Yeah. Faith and fear are the same thing, just in opposite directions. That's exactly right. 100% right. Faith is fear is faith in evil, right? Or you could say faith is belief in good. Fear is belief in bad. Yes. So it's belief. Yeah. Whereas people who believe in miracles, they believe in an event that is divine in nature, that has the power to transform their life for the better in an instant. Whereas fear is constantly obsessing over the worst-case scenario about an event that may suddenly change their life for the worse. And so it's like this belief in two different things. And fearful people, they love to spread it around. Yes. They think by saying it aloud, by saying it aloud, it's like it's helping. It's not. They say, "I got to get it off. I got to get it off my chest. I, you know, I have to let it out." You're not letting it out. You're letting it in. M-hm. Worry, you're not getting it off your chest. You're getting it on your chest. When you start talking about how angry you are, or how scared you are, or how bad everything is, you're not getting it out of you. You're getting it into you by speaking, right? If you have these emotions, and we put way too much emphasis on emotions, we got to put way more emphasis on words. Whatever you feel, who cares? Say what this, say what this says, say what this says. Worry is a useless attempt at control. And I think that sometimes people think that by obsessing over it, talking about it, that they're going to somehow prevent it, or maybe it won't catch them off guard. Maybe they're so afraid of something catching them off guard that they have to be constantly, not vigilant, but paranoid, looking for these things that could possibly go wrong. And I love what you're saying about how people spread it. I mean, I don't like that they spread it. Yeah, but to me, it's almost like, in some sense, certain mindsets get joy, yeah, out of being the one to announce the bad news, being the one to spread the fear. And it's, it's, I think it's a real problem, especially in the body of Christ. There's so many posts where I say, "Oh, I'm going through this. Oh, I'm dealing with this. Oh, I'm struggling here, here, and here." And I feel like they become addicted to that, like, I guess it's just the, the light on them because they're in struggle and stuff like that. And I think like, is there ever like a moment where they're able to just eventually kind of grow up? In a sense, or the best way to grow up is to get around grown-up people. There's no better way to change your personal behavior than to get around people that have the attributes, the victories, the money, the faith, the joy that you want to have. Whoever you're hanging out with is your future.

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Your personal behavior than to get around people that have attributes, the victories, the money, the faith, the joy that you want to have. Whoever you're hanging out with is your future. You're reinforcing them, they're reinforcing you. You, you need to like fire some friends or divorce friends. Better to be alone than to be around people like that. If you notice too, it seems like faith, faith in the Bible is not really an individual. It's usually a group. And fear is usually not a person, it's a group. So you notice like when Jesus is in Nazareth, he can't do any miracles. This is God, right? Uncreated, the uncreated essence of the Father in the flesh. This is Yahweh God in the flesh. It's the Bible says he could not, right? He was unable to do miracles because of their unbelief. Their, their unbelief. And it says there's other places where it says he was amazed at their faith. In Nazareth, he's amazed at their lack of faith. Yeah. And notice how there's not one person, there's not like a person's name who was lacking faith. It's the whole town. And Capernaum is the opposite. Capernaum is full of faith, right? And Capernaum, and people are saying, "Do you hear what you did in Capernaum?" Well, you know what I would have said if I were Jesus? Just remained silent. But if I had, you know, been there and I had been like Peter cutting ears off, I would have said, you know, "Then have the faith of Capernaum." You know, Jerusalem didn't have a lot of faith either. So what you see is you've got these towns in Galilee, which a lot of people don't know this, when, when the, when the Babylonian exile happened, the Jews didn't all just come back in mass. Most of the Jews stayed in Babylon. So at the time in, you know, when Jesus is ministering in Galilee in the first century, it's now been what, 500 years? There are still more Jews in Babylon than there are in, in Israel. And what's funny is, and they're still coming back. And so what's funny is about 150 years before, um, the, the days of Jesus, the Hasmonean dynasty conquers and, and this northern area of Galilee, and it becomes like settlement towns for Jewish, uh, immigrants that are typically either Greek or coming from Babylonia. And so you have, and remember back then, the distance between those places, the, the religion evolves dramatically in those two, two places where the Jews in Jerusalem and Judea are much more like this hardcore Phariseeism that we see a lot of. But the ones who are immigrating from Babylonia and parts of Greece and other places that are coming back, they're more, we would call it Pentecostal, charismatic style Jews who are more in the tradition of the prophets. Hm. So they haven't been as involved, you know, in the formation of a lot of the synagogues and rein, I mean, synagogue develops there, but in, in Babylonia, but they're not as locked into this physical oral tradition that has developed mostly in Jerusalem. And it basically, I think, parallels much of what's going on today in the church. Totally. Where you have on one extreme, um, and I would say thankfully, it's not a growing movement. I would say it's a weakening movement, maybe slightly growing, but still, thankfully, I've noticed at least in social media circles, online, in media, it's not gaining as much steam as it had before. But still, we have these belief systems that basically outright deny the power of the Holy Spirit as being relevant for today. Yeah. And the irony is, a lot of times that view is coming from people who very much believe in the inherent and infallible word of God. And yet, that claim that miracles don't happen or the Holy Spirit doesn't, there's, it's not in the Bible anywhere. There's, it's not on any page. And yet on every page, there's the, the opposite is h- is happening. So faith really does happen in community. And that's why, like, picking a faith church is important. That's why you starting a faith, faith church, which I believe God's called you to do, is important. That, uh, and I would recommend that if you live in Austin, that you, you come to that church. If you live outside of Austin, you're looking for, you should consider moving to Austin just to go to the church. I don't think that's a bad idea. And that's coming from Pastor Bobby Schuller, right there. I can tell you, in the same way that towns have, some have, Jesus is amazed at their faith, and others he's amazed at their lack of faith, that same thing is happening from heaven looking at churches now. He's amazed at some churches' lack of faith, and other churches' faith. Here's what so many churches say: "What you see in the flesh is God's will." Right? So, "Well, you're sick, therefore it's God's will." H-hm. Right? How dumb is that? That's the opposite of what the Bible says, right? God's, the Bible tells us what God's will is, and, and it tells us not to walk by sight, what we see in the natural, but to walk by faith. Faith, and faith comes by the word, and to speak the word aloud, and then it, so, and then our faith becomes sight. So, so, you know, it's that same thing like John 9, when, and they're like, "Who sinned? His parents or this man that he should be born blind?" She's like, "Neither. God's going to reveal himself through the healing of this guy." You know, that's the proper, that's the proper response. And so we need churches that believe God, that, that are not constantly like, "Well, we prayed for him to be healed, and he didn't get healed, so, you know, does God not have power?" Just don't take that class. Just stop. Stop. Don't take that class. You know, the, when, when the angel appears to Gideon, and he says, Gideon, at the very beginning, in, I believe it's in Judges 6, maybe, or maybe four. Gideon, "The Lord is with you." "Don't be afraid." This is what the angel says to Gideon. And Gideon begins with a theological question. He goes, "You say the Lord is with me, but why have all these bad things been happening to us? Why, why? It's the why question. Why is this happening to us? And why are all these things happening to us? And if you, the Lord is with you, why are we in bondage to the Midianites and etc., etc.?" And you know what the angel says? He does not answer the question. He just says, "Have I not commanded you? Go." Yeah. So notice how he's trying, he's wanting to almost stay stuck like, "Well, God's not." There's literally a nine-foot glowing angel with a fiery sword, let's say, it doesn't say what he looks like, but we know what angels look like. An angel of God is there. Like, "Get in. Go. God, God is with you." And he's like, "How do I know?" Like, this is how Christians are today. And God, you know, God just, just don't take that class. Believe the word. This is what we have. Believe it and trust it. And get in a community that believes it, because faith is contagious. And fear is contagious, like you said, it's the same thing. You're going to catch it. If you're in a community of one, it's like you. So when you're picking a church, you can pick a Nazareth church, or you can pick a Capernaum church. Right? Pick a Capernaum church. Pick Capernaum friends.

And it's interesting too, with the woman with the issue of blood, that she up behind Jesus, she says within her heart, "If I can just touch the hem of His garment, I can be made whole." And shortly thereafter, in the Gospels, it's recorded that people began trying to do the same, trying to touch the fringe of his robe so that they could be healed. They, they heard about her testimony and said, "Well, we're going to do that too." And I find it ironic, interesting, I should say, that the believers who claim that they're all about the word, you were alluding to this earlier, ironically, they're all about experience and emotionalism. I believe anger is an emotion too. Totally. And so there's this emotional response based upon personal experience that tries to calibrate the word of God according to that personal experience, as opposed to adjusting what they believe about that experience to the word of God. That's right. Yeah.

My wife, you know, my wife was sick for years, for like, uh, eight years. She had a horrible degenerative, um, what called, called, uh, what do they call it? Uh, neuropathy and other issues. We went to regular doctors, they couldn't help her. We went to, uh, alternative doctors. We tried chiropractor, we tried organic, we tried all this diet stuff. It was getting to the point where she could basically only eat white rice. And we went to Mayo Clinic, which is the best clinic in the world. We paid $10,000 for a full body evaluation to look at head to toe. And they're like, "You have this thing." I forget what it was called. And they said, "But basically, you need to get on, um, you need to get on joint medication. Your elbows and knees are going to hurt." She said, like, when they said that, she started immediately starting to feel her elbows kind of hurt a little bit, like she never had that. And then they're like, "Your elbows and knees are going to start to hurt." And when they said that, she's like, "I started to feel my elbows kind of aching a little bit." Wow. And notice how they're speaking now. They're doctors, right? And they're doing what, what they're supposed to do. And God uses doctors. But again, it's the power of words. And she began to, you know, and we began to, we come from a Presbyterian background, you know, we do not come from, I went to Oral Roberts, but she didn't, you know. And so we're, we're coming at this like, "Well, I guess it's God's will." This is the new doubt in the church. "I prayed for someone in faith, they didn't get healed, it must be God's will." No, sir. God's will is here. His word. His word is His will. Hm. That's like me saying to you, you know, "I don't know if I'm going to heaven." Like, it's, what's amazing, we got heaven right on, right? Nobody, I've never met a Christian that got heaven wrong. We say, like, "I believe God for heaven. I'm going to heaven, right?" Every Christian, absolutely. But I'm like, "Well, I mean, I have not seen heaven, so it's probably not for me. It must be God's will." "I believe in Jesus. I believe He saved me." But, you know, my grandma, I didn't see her go to heaven, so she's, it's probably God's will for her to not go to heaven. Why? We say it's dumb, right? It's just dumb. And, and we just believe, believe God's word. And so we can do, we can do for, for healing too.

Pastor Bobby, I have to share this. Uh, when I got saved, I would listen to you quite frequently. And later on, I found out that David knew who you were. If he connected with you, I'm like, "Oh yeah, Pastor Bobby. He's really cool. I used to listen to him like all the time." And, um, when I would listen to you, like, as you're saying, you know, "Power of life and death in the tongue." When I would listen to you specifically, and like other ministers in your vein, I noticed that when I would listen to you, it would be like, "Oh man, a lot of what he's saying makes sense." Because, as David mentioned earlier, a lot of what you say is, you know, hope, joy, peace, happiness, love. And you've written even books on this. Is there, is any of this stem from anywhere like significant in your life? Like, aside from, "Oh, I just read the word, God touched my life." Does it stem from anywhere?

It's a good question. First of all, let me say, I forgot to tell you, God healed my wife. And she has started like, left hanging out, man, about 10 years ago. He absolutely. Maybe even six years ago. He completely healed her from top to bottom. And it took about a year, but she was standing on God's word, and He healed her. And now she has like a healing ministry. I love that. So, and, and, uh, but, but I would say a combination, probably of a lot of the things I teach, just comes from mentors and churches that I've been involved with. Uh, my grandfather, Dr. Schuller, had a big impact on my life. He, you know, I, I was originally in business before I got into ministry. I still am involved in business in some ways. And I've always loved the idea of business as an engine that creates value and wealth for a community. Business, God loves business. It's, business is God's idea. And, um, and it's just, it's a money tree. It creates money for the employees, it creates money for the owner, it creates wealth for the community. And my grandpa was around a lot of, uh, business people and stuff. But, but when I started mentoring with him, it's almost like he knew that I was going to kind of take over. And the way that I took over was not the way. I never thought I would ever lead his church or, you know, I, I told him this story yesterday, and I can tell later, but, but basically, my grandfather had a big impact on me because for like eight years, we met every Thursday, and we would just sit together, and we would talk about media, we would talk about church as a mission, we would talk about changing global dynamics, and particularly about big, big, big goals. Like, here's one, one thing he said to me one time. He goes, you know, he has this deep voice 'cause he smoked cigars his whole life. People did know that. He quit smoking cigarettes by smoking cigars 'cause he started, was smoking cigarettes like a teenager. So had this like voice, you know. And he goes, he says to me, he goes, "Bobby," he goes, "your goals tell me your goals." And I told him all these big goals that I had that I thought were big. And he goes, "Do your goals scare you?" I thought about it for a while, and I said, "Nope. My goals don't scare me at all." And he leans forward. He goes, "That's the problem." Go. You need scary goals. Big, big, scary goals. You know? And his whole thing was, you know, we need, we serve a God who wants us to do way more. And so this has become a big ethos for me. Guy was talking to a friend and he said to me, "I, I just need to make about another $2,000 a month and I would be set." I was like, "Dude, stop that." I was like, "You need to make 10x that. You need to make another $20,000 a month. That's how you need to think." Don't, I think $2,000. The getting the $20,000 a month is way easier than getting the $2,000 a month one because you'll have to activate your faith. That'll come from God. But two, you'll create a different system. This is Dan Heath. Now, like Dan Heath says, "10 times is easier than two times." If you do two times, like if you're digging a hole and you're like, "I want to dig a hole twice as fast." Your immediate solution is to work twice as hard digging, right? But if somebody puts a gun to your head and they're like, "Dig this hole 10 times as fast," then working way harder is no longer an option. You have to invent a tractor or hire guys or come up with some other system that isn't. So you have to create a lever. And that's why that, that's why just in general, bigger goals are going to attract bigger people. They're going to attract bigger crowds. They're going to attract bigger money. They're going to attract bigger allies. And, and then that gigantic goal that you thought was so big, you're going to accomplish it and go, "Oh, that wasn't really that big," right? Because now you're surrounded by big people, big money, big favor, big life, right? A big team. And, and this is one of the big things I got from my grandpa was like, "Just go as big as you to make sure it's so big it's almost impossible, and then you'll just know God did it."

And I like what you said too about those bigger goals require faith in God. And this is something, even as you're talking, I'm starting to look back on some highlights of my life and ministry and I'm going, "That makes so much sense." Where once the thinking was shifted from my ability to His ability, to attempting something that would not be possible were it not for divine intervention, at that point, now we're going, "Okay, now it's on God to do it." Totally. For instance, to to finish the studio we're sitting in, we were, we were fundraising for about a couple years as we were building it. And anything and everything that could go wrong, went wrong. I mean, there was workers who were quitting, there was lumber shortage, there were shortages of supplies. Or to a tornado came through here, uh, during construction. Remember that? And it actually barely took out a piece of our roof, maybe no more than the size of a hand. But next door, literally the same building, it ripped the roof off. So it did not really touch this side. So there was one of the gentlemen who was, who was working there, he was one of the co-owners. He quit after decades in the business. He says, and he said, he said these words, said, "This project is cursed." And quit the company. That's, that's how many. Yeah, exactly. So we, I recognized that as spiritual. I said, "No, it's not." I said, "No, it's, it's God's going to do it." So we're getting to the tail end of it. We needed a half a million dollars. So it took like two years to raise the first, you know, million something. And then we had about another week to come up with a half a million. And I'm thinking logically here, if it took X amount of time to raise that larger amount, how much more difficult will it be to raise something that's equivalent, at least in terms of the time frame that we're working with? And in fact, even more difficult. And Monday morning, I just, it was that week. We needed it by Friday, literally, to pay or we had to stop the construction and we would had to pay things, and then it would have delayed everything. And I just woke up, and it was the Holy Spirit. I couldn't have done it on my own. Just gave me faith. And I said in my heart, I, I started celebrating. I said, "This is going to be done. It's going to be done." Long story short, one, one phone call on Thursday from an individual who was able to do it, just wrote the half a million dollar check. And within 24 hours, it was solved. We had, they overnighted it to us. And I don't want to give too many details of the story because they want to stay very private, and it would give away their identity if I got too much into the story. But it was the Lord. And it was like this ease of just, "God's going to do it." The phone, I wasn't even surprised that really, at the end of it. It was just like, a, this knowing. And it's exactly what you're saying, where, you know, had I, I would have probably in my mind practically said, "Well, if we get this many donors to do this much over time, we can take a loan and then against it, we can maybe work through the interest." And, but no, God, God gave me the faith. It was all His doing. And then it came about.

Don't looking back, don't you wish that it had been a $10 million problem instead of a half a million?

You know what? Yes. Because then you would have had a $10 million asset instead of a half a million dollar asset. In fact, there was another project that we were working on where, um, one Lawrence, you, you work with him closely. Lawrence Lopez, he does all of our, um, events, the lighting, staging, and all that. And he was the one who was helping us gather the, uh, the lighting and equipment for one of the projects we were doing. And he said, "Just, just do a bigger, bigger spend. He goes, "Just, just try to get the best." I said, "No, I want to be practical." And, yeah, sure enough, a donor comes along and says, "How much do you need to finish that off?" Yeah. And they wrote the check. And he goes, "See? You should have asked for something more." There are some donors who didn't give to you because the problem was too small. Right? There are donors out there who want to solve hundred million dollar problems. They don't care about your half million dollar problem. And that's, that's something to think about. It's just like in the business world, there are, there are great investments out there that investors are not interested in investing in because it doesn't scale for them. They're looking to solve multi-billion dollar problems. They're not looking to solve little, one million, $2 million problems. And that's the thing that we forget. We, we always project ourselves onto the, onto the world. You know, "I can't imagine a half a million dollar problem because I don't have a half a million dollars." But money is just, there's so much money out there. And it's nothing for God. It's like, the money thing is like the easiest thing in the world for God. You know, I think again, you're exactly spot on about the faith thing. I, I think, I, something I'm starting to realize is that our faith does grow. It's, it doesn't, our, I don't think our faith really just comes to us overnight. Like, I remember, um, when the Vineyard movement was starting, and they wanted to pract, and there wasn't a lot going on, you know, in terms of miracles back then. John Wimber, I think he was saying like, they had their little Vineyard Church, little house church, and all they had the faith for was to pray for elbows. And so they had all these like elbow miracles. But when they would pray for other things, they wouldn't get miracles. But they started, elbows, for whatever reason, they had their faith for like elbow pain, like the smallest kind of, whatever. But after a while, they started to increase where they could pray for knee pain, and they could pray for neck pain. And so they were like, really good at praying for pain. I'm getting this wrong, wrong, by the way. It's something like this. But over time, as the miracles started manifesting, it started seeing greater and greater victory. And I think that that's part of, like, Jesus, even that same parable that I was talking about, you know, that that seed is the word, right? That seed is the word of God. And it doesn't turn into a crop overnight. There's a process. Some falls on the road, it gets eaten by the birds. Some falls, and it's starting to grow, starting to grow, but it grows on the rocks, and then tribulations come and withers and dies, right? So it never fully. But it was growing. Then another, it's growing, it's growing, it's growing. But then the riches and worries of this world choke it out. But then the one good soil, it grows. So I think if we think of faith coming from the word, that then our faith really does grow over time. And my guess is, a lot of these spiritual giants that, that you're telling me this, this wall of heroes of Kathryn Kuhlman or Oral Roberts, and others, early on, they, you know, they may have experienced a big miracle like Kenneth Hagen had this huge miracle, you know, when he was a little boy, that sort of set the stage to believe. But I don't really know. It'd be interesting. You probably know better than I do the history. But did they have the same manifestation of miracles in their teens and 20s that they did, you know, like later on? Because I also think like those crowds, when they pull those big crowds, we're talking about faith in community now. You've got a bunch of faith in one room, and the Holy Spirit is hovering. The space has created faith. So why aren't those people getting the same kind of miracles when they're by themselves? And I think it's, they're not in a big community of faith. There's something about it.

Yeah. And it's interesting that you would, you would say that, because this is one of the questions that gets put to me a lot, where, you know, they say, "Why, why do you have to do it like a, like a healing service?" Well, number one, it's impractical to go and do that at a hospital. I mean, we do visit hospitals. These gentlemen have been with me. We'll go and pray for.

The sick, of course. But there's something about creating an environment where all they're focused on is the Lord. And it's not that God needs it to move. It's sometimes that we're so distracted by other things that we, we need a distraction-free environment so that we can focus on God and have our faith stirred. So it's less about God's ability, more about our ability to receive.

"Hold on. How do you know God doesn't need it to move in, in terms of what he's getting all those people together? How do you know?" I mean, because again, it said again, going back to Nazareth. I'm not challenging, I'm just, I'm thinking aloud. Nazareth, right? He could not do miracles there because of their lack of faith. I would just assume that in, in, in different layers, like different degrees of it. So, for example, like you have the general way that God works in the earth, and I think that's through partnership and faith. Yeah. And then there are always exceptions to those generalizations, like what he did with Paul, like what he did with Pharaoh, like what he did with Jonah, to where these guys who are anti whatever his will is, and he says, "No, on this instance, I'm making this happen." So, I, I say that I think in the broader sense of his sovereignty. But I do believe, as you say, generally speaking, God does require faith to move in those instances. Now, can he override that at any moment, any time? Totally. Of course, he absolutely. Um, but in terms of that environment, that's where I think he's working with our faith in partnership.

If I feel like, if you could see faith like a, like imagine you could see it like a fire in the spirit, and some people are hotter than others, some people are brighter than others. That one person alone can create a lot of heat, a lot of light, a lot of fire. But if you get 10,000 people like that in one space, it's like the sun, right? It's like the, it's like being in a nuclear power plant, I think, in the spirit. Now, again, this is, this is just me thinking out loud. I'm not, this is not a doctrinal, I'm not teaching this from, I'm just talking to my friends here on the podcast. But in my mind, I have seen the greatest moves of God where the faith is through the roof as a community. And you know, and it's, people don't understand. I mean, you understand, but so many Christians don't understand how powerful believing person is. We just don't understand. Like that one person who believes God, it's like Jesus is that, it's like he's Jesus. Not that he is Jesus, but it's just, "just greater works shall you do," right? And it, and so much of, again, so much is in what we say.

I was talking to, um, not talking to, I heard a podcast from a, from a, like, I think he was an exorcist. And I've never heard of him before. It was Michael something. And he was saying, "What we, what we realize is that the reason this is going to get weird." I said, "Okay." The reason, the reason a demon wants to take over a body is so that he can get a tongue. So, like, remember what Jesus tells us? Whatever you, we always think it happens in heaven first and then it comes here. Yeah, right? It's first it's heaven, then here. But that's not what he says. Jesus says, "Whatever you bind on earth," mhm, "will be bound where?" In heaven. See how it's inverted from what we think? "Whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." So there are all these people who are binding and loosing. Like, this guy cursed himself. "Look at this construction worker. This job is cursed." Like, just saying that, you're cursing yourself. And you, I'm sure you can cancel that assignment, but he just placed an assignment, a spiritual assignment over the project, by speaking that aloud. So foolish. He has no idea what he just did by saying that aloud. "This project is cursed." Like, you know, you immediately go, "I cancel that. Like, in Jesus' name. That is not true. That is not God's word. That is what the enemy wants me to do."

So demons, it's like, there's all these people that it's like, imagine your, he said it was like, you know, like in Harry Potter or something when the good guy and the bad guy, I'm not really Harry Potter, of course, but the two guys are fighting each other with magic wands. Or, or say, let's say, Narnia, the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, these magic wands. That's what's happening with our words. We're just like. And so imagine you give one of those to like a little baby, and the baby's just like, "This is what we are with when we're foolishly, you know, throwing words around."

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You know, like in Harry Potter or something when the good guy and the bad guy, I'm not really Harry Potter, of course, but the two guys are fighting each other with magic wands. Or, or say, let's say, Narnia, the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, these magic wands. That's what's happening with our words. We're just like. And so imagine you give one of those to like a little baby, and the baby's just like, "This is what we are with when we're foolishly, you know, throwing words around." And so demons, they're being, they're, and angels are being impacted by the words that especially Christians are saying that are not in line with God's word. But they still have power. It's not, it's, "Whatever Jesus says, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth," including all the dumb and bad stuff. He has, "I have given you authority." Whatever, whatever. And so that includes, "This job is cursed." Mhm. Bound in heaven, right? So, so these, I feel like these spiritual principalities and powers are dealing with human beings, affecting their lives. And so these demons, they're like, they want to take possess a body so that they can say what they want to say. So that's what they want. They want your tongue. They want to be able to say aloud.

And notice how, like, and you just see it all over the Bible, the words thing. The Book of Job. The whole book of Job is a wager between God and Satan, just trying to get Job to say something. That's what the whole book is about, right? Will God curse you or will God not curse you? That's what a curse is, what you say. That's the whole book. And in fact, there's the, there's this moment where he's lost everything, and his wife says, "Curse God and die." Yeah. Where does that come from? Came from Satan. It came from outside. "Chris, got to die. You're so close." You know, Satan's like, through his wife, like, "Curse God and die. Curse God and die." Right? And what does Job do? He doesn't sit there and mumble about it. And I think silence is better than cursing, but the best thing to do is to say, say something in faith that according to God's word. And I think his response to that, or I know he says it somewhere in Job, he says, "Though he slay me, yet will I trust him. I will trust the Lord." And so he has the victory because he never cursed, curses God, you know?

So it's interesting. We, we, this is, this is what faith and victory is about. It's about learning the Bible so you can say it aloud. And you say it enough that you spread it around, you create a community of faith, and then the miracles and stuff start to start to bubble up and happen. Um, one thing I would really love to hear from you because I know you got, um, a degree in the science of business, correct? And one thing I would love to hear you talk about because you said it very passing, is like, God loves business. Yeah. Wealth. Yeah. Income. And as we're in the car together, we're driving around talking to him about the vision, you know, to purchase this property, um, so we can build on it. And we've mentioned the price, and he goes, "It's nothing for God." And I'm like, "That's so, just so little to him." Where, what, why do you think Christians despise wealth so much? And how can we change that?

Oh, because Christians are listening to the enemy. Because Satan, Satan loves poverty. Right? Poverty. If you go to poor places, poor places are crime places. Um, poor places are sick places. Poor places are. And in fact, one of the reasons that so many Christians do well in poor places is because we're against poverty. We're against sickness. We're against crime. We're against lack. We're against lying, right? We want to heal. We want to rescue those who are in bondage. The Bible is super clear about God's provision for us. There's no, right? So poverty is a curse that's for the wicked. And, and, and wealth and, and provision is a gift from God. He literally tells us to pray, "On earth as it is in heaven." In Austin, as it is in heaven. I'll get to your business question because it's a good one. Don't let me forget, though, okay? I'm like a golden retriever chasing a squirrel. So, uh, so, so I really want the, the big verse that catches people up and they miss it because is the Rich Young Ruler. Comes to Jesus. Not to give you some context. In Jesus' day, the highest position in the Jewish community was a rabbi. And by this story, Jesus is considered a sage, and maybe a prophet. In other words, he's the most famous, most important rabbi in Israel, for sure. Super, super famous. There's multiple rabbis. Um, and to become a rabbi, a young man needs to receive this called "Lech L'cha," which means "follow me." So typically, in those days, all the children, they learned to read and write based on the Bible. And by like the 12 years old, every kid had the Torah memorized, the first five books of the Bible. And many of them had large sections of the Tanakh, or all of the Tanakh, that is the whole Old Testament memorized. The ones that were super, super gifted, if they wanted to become a rabbi, would go to a rabbi. And rabbis could only have five disciples maximum. And so they'd go to a rabbi and they would have this back and forth, sometimes go on for days. And it's like the rabbi would ask you a question about the scripture, and you're not supposed to answer the question with an answer, you're supposed to answer the question with a question. And the more clever the response is, and the more impressed he is, the more likely he is to take you. And if, and if he takes you on as a disciple, one of only five, your job is to take on his yoke, which is his denomination, it's his interpretation of scripture. And, and so this is super important to him because he's, he's creating a fivefold clone of himself, you see. And so 99% of the time, the rabbi would look at the young teenage boy and he would say, "Go ply your trade," which means just go do what your dad does. But if the super, super special one comes along, he would say, "Lech L'cha," which is like, literally means "follow me." And so by saying that, the boy's like, like it's like getting into Harvard. And his dad would have been like, "My son, my son got, he's going to be a rabbi. He's going to be a disciple to Rabbi Hillel or Rabbi Shammai." Or go around telling everybody, "Take it to every house." You know, whatever Joel is going to be under Rabbi Shammai. And everybody's cheering, right? So this is the culture of what the very heavy words, "Lech L'cha," are. And so we wonder why, like Jesus goes to Peter. Peter knows who he is. He says, "Follow me." "Lech L'cha." Peter leaves his nets there. Obviously, he's not official anymore, right? And who cares, right? So, so, so the Rich Young Ruler. So all that in context, right? There wasn't one disciple. You know, Matthew trading taxes, can't even go to synagogue. Jesus goes up to him randomly. And because tax collectors are like the bottom of the barrel, "Follow me." Knocks over his table, coins everywhere, does not care. He just got the coolest, right? You're in Harvard, right? And so, so the Rich Young Ruler comes to Jesus and says, "Rabbi, Rabbi, what must I do to be saved?" You know. And, uh, Jesus asks him, uh, "How do you see it?" And what I'm trying to remember, verbatim, I want to get this right. Uh, he says to him, um, "I think he says something like, 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.'" Deuteronomy 6:5. "And love your neighbor as yourself," which is Leviticus. And, uh, Jesus says, uh, "Oh, wait, no. I may, I'm mixing it up." Because there is a point where Jesus says to him, he gives him six of the 10 Commandments that are all the Commandments, like, "Don't murder, don't steal, don't commit adultery," this, etc., etc. But leaves out the ones that have to do with, you know, "Honor the Lord thy God, make no idols, honor the Sabbath, don't take the Lord's name in vain." And, and the man goes, "I've done all this." Right? He like, kind of cries. "I've done all this. What?" He's saying, "I still don't have eternal life." And it says, Jesus looked at him and loved him. Like, Jesus, like, "Oh, poor guy. He missed it." He, like, Jesus says, like, everybody there has the Ten Commandments super memorized, right? They've got the whole Bible memorized with Ten Commandments. He's like, "Oh, Jesus left out four. Why did he leave those four out?" That's a classic way for a rabbi to teach. The young man totally misses, oh wow, that he's got an idolatry problem in his life, right? So he leaves out the four that have to do with idolatry and honoring God. So he's like, "I've done all of those." You know, he to Jesus, like smiles and looks at him. He goes, "Okay." So he's kind of like smiling because he's doing this from a place of love. And he looks at the Rich Young Ruler and he says, "Okay, one thing you lack. Sell everything you have, go give it to the poor, and then 'Lech L'cha.'" Do you get what he just said there? Yep. He was offering to this guy to be one of the 12. Mhm. Whoa. And everybody, go. And there's a crowd there, right? So everybody's like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa." Cuz there's people around him all the time. He, he does, you know, if he said that to somebody, it's there. And we know what their name is. There's thousands of churches named after every single guy in that group of 12, right? And so they go, "Oh, the most famous rabbi in the world just offered this guy all he has to do is sell his stuff, give it to the poor, and then he can come and be, um, a disciple." And then what happens? It says that he turned, he, he's the only one in the Bible to turn down Jesus. It says he went, funny line, he went away sad because he had great wealth. And the whole crowd gasps. Like, "What? Like, we, it's hard for us to understand this culturally. Everybody was like, he turned that down for for money? Be like turning down the presidency because you wanted some money or something, right?" What, what, the greatest opportunity in his life to follow the, the great rabbi. And Jesus then, uh, yells, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven." And this is what we were talking about yesterday. This is the part that everybody misses. He says, "It's easier for, I'm getting to your business question, I promise. It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to..." What's the next word there? "...enter." Enter. This is the word that people need to focus on. It's easier for the camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. You cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven rich. You cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven holy. You cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven having it all together. You cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven with all your problems solved. You cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven having it all figured out. You cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven healthy. H. You enter the kingdom broke. You enter the kingdom poor. You enter the kingdom broken. You enter the kingdom as a sinner. You enter the king. But do you stay a sinner? Do you stay broke? Do you stay sick? No. You get it all. That's, that's what heaven is. H. The man's wealth was not from God. It's a, it's cursed gold, right? It's cursed treasure. You cannot bring, you cannot bring your cursed money that that's not from God into heaven. This is why Jesus doesn't say, "You cannot serve both God and money." In the Greek, it says, "You cannot serve both God and Mammon." Mammon is a Syrian god of wealth. So either get your wealth from God, or get your wealth from a pagan god, which is probably a demonic principality that's nourishing you with financial means that's cursing you, right? So there's a lot of businesses out there that that money is really legally, you know, legitimately by the law, it was earned, but it's rotten money, right? And you can't bring that money with you into the kingdom of heaven. And so, so part of, part of being saved, right? Is we start as wretched, broken sinners. But we, but the moment we're saved, that all is, that man is dead, and a new man is raised. And that's why I'm really skeptical of the constant, like, Christians saying, "I'm a sinner, I'm a sinner." For example, right? The Corinthians says, "He who knew no sin became sin, that we would be called the righteousness." Yeah. The righteousness of God. So what's true? Am I a wretched, horrible sinner, or am I the righteousness of God? It's correct to say, "I was a wretched sinner. Now I'm the righteousness of God. I was sick. Now I'm healed. I was lost. Now I'm found. I was blind. Now I see." So this is the thing that Christians mess. And by the way, in that same thing, Jesus goes on to teach, same guy still walking away, he says, "For anyone who leaves land and property and family and mother and father, etc., will get a hundred times more in this age today and in the one to come." Is it true or is it not true? So, in other words, Jesus is saying, if that man had given up his money, he would have gotten a hundred times more in this age and in the age to come. He just didn't trust God. It was a test, you know? He didn't, his idol. So he trusted. So the money was, was God to him. It was an idol. He built an altar in the spirit between him and his money. The altar is a portal for a demonic principality to work in his life, to nourish him through money, but will also keep him from being in God's kingdom.

I'm glad you explained that because many look at that text, which is by the way, descriptive, and they try to make it prescriptive with universal application to all believers, as opposed to specific to that one individual. And then they'll take that and misconstrue the whole point that he was making, and even develop ungodly doctrines based on that. I've heard a lot of people quote that as if that's the reason why you can't succeed or be fruitful in the endeavor that God's given to you. But I think of people like Joseph of Arimathea, who himself was a wealthy believer. Jesus never rebuked him in the same manner. But that was to Ruben's question. You were kind of setting up the, oh yeah, the context there. You're setting up the context to demonstrate that that's just probably one of many examples of how scripture is twisted to support the idea that God is against prosperity.

Here's the irony, okay? Here's the irony. Is a lot of Christians, out of one part of their mouth, will say, "God doesn't want you to be wealthy." But then at the same time, will desperately work hard to become wealthy. So, so out of one mouth, that, you know, certain types of evangelical types, whom I love, and they're, they're close to God, and I love what they're doing. But at one side of their mouth, to say, "God doesn't want you to be wealthy. It's not God's plan for you to be wealthy." And then all of their energy, time, and effort goes into building a business, building a project, going to conventions, reading "Rich Dad Poor Dad," right? Reading, uh, uh, Dave Ramsey, right? Which are all books on how to get rich. So, so what they're effectively saying is, it's okay to get rich as long as you do it in your own strength, right?

That's a good point. That's what they're saying. Great point. They're saying that God doesn't want to be rich unless I do it in my own strength. You know, and it's not from God, it's just me doing my little thing on the side. And yet, all their energy, all their effort, they are the Rich Young Ruler. They're the Rich Young Ruler because they don't, you know, very often, even that, that money isn't for God. They're like, "Oh, it's for, it's for the Lord." But the truth is, in their heart, if you look at their heart, they want that money so they can stop worrying. Goes back to that very first thing we said. Wow. If I get enough money, I'll, I'll be at peace finally. And I can, I can eat, drink, be, and be merry, you know? And I can rest finally. And I can, they're just not being sustained by the spirit. If they were, the Holy Spirit would reveal to them that their desire to get wealthy is from God, and that God wants to provide them with wealth. But the point of wealth is going to be to, to carry on the kingdom. But it's also okay for them to have some nice things, and to have nice meals, and to take care of their family, and to bless their family and their neighbors, right? "On earth as it is in heaven."

I have a question for you guys. On earth, in Austin, as it is in heaven. Are there mansions in heaven? Absolutely. I think there are. Yeah. So what we propose, those people should probably say, "On earth as it is in heaven," except for the mansions, right? Whatever. That's what I, I often ask, if poverty is God's will, why isn't poverty the nature of heaven? If abundance isn't God's will, why is there so much abundance in heaven? And to balance the point, neither myself, nor Pastor Bobby, I don't want to speak for you, but I assume we're not saying that's the whole reason you serve God. And even Pastor Bobby is one of the most generous people I've ever met. And so I like to say it like this: it's perfectly biblically consistent to have wealth, as long as that wealth doesn't have you. And we're not talking about living for the purpose of acquisition of wealth. We're not talking about mistaking the call of God for strictly being wealth acquisition. We're simply saying that wealth is a tool that God wants to bless us with so that we can bless others and expand the kingdom.

Look, if you go into business believing that God doesn't want you to be wealthy unless you do it in your own strength, you're probably, there's a decent chance you'll create some wealth, but that it won't come from God, and you'll have a bunch of cursed gold, which is a real thing. You'll have created an altar with with a demonic principality that oversees wealth. So, Baal is one that's a real, that's a real principality, that's a real spiritual demon that's at work in the world today, who has some spiritual authority over wealth. And if you accidentally build an altar to Baal, he'll give you some money. Same thing with Mammon, another Syrian god who provides wealth. There's probably a principality like that in America. We don't have a name for it, or it's Baal. But, but if you, if you want to do it in your own strength, you probably, if you're smart and capable in America, you can probably do it. But your kids aren't going to do well, your marriage isn't going to do well, your spiritual life is going to be empty. When you can't make payroll, you're not going to sleep, your debts going to, you're going to get into debt, you're going to make bad decisions. But if you go into business and you say, "I believe God wants abundance in my life so that I can finance the kingdom, so that I can help a youth ministry, so that I can build a building, and even so that I can eat well and wear nice clothes." Matthew 6, hello. We're supposed to dress like Solomon, huh? Solomon had some good clothes, right? I mean, don't go crazy. This is from Zara, I think it was, 40 bucks. But, you know, I mean, there's just, what Jesus says, you know, "Just take him." And I think if you have that mental attitude, God's going to give you 10 times more than Baal would have given you. It's going to be blessed money. It's going to help people. If you one day decide to just give it all away, you'll wake up the next morning, there'll be even more waiting for you. That's just how God is. That's what David Green said. You know, David Green from Hobby Lobby, he's like, "You," he's like, "I just believed God that if I gave 10% of my money, he would open up heavens." I just really believed that. And that's why Hobby Lobby did so well. He's like, and he looks at me, goes, "Pastor, it's easy." He's, I think he thought I didn't think it was a good thing. I'm like, "Yes, David." He's like, "Pastor, it's either true or it's not true." And I was like, "Amen." You know? And God blessed him. And he actually gave, he did that. He gave away all of his money, and he, he got like way more back within like a couple of years.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Every time me and my wife go to Hobby Lobby, we hear Christian music. And I was thinking, why are they playing Christian music here? I did not know that. But I have a question. Um, this one is, I think something that I'm kind of working through is balancing your family's health, right, with your personal goals and your financial goals. Because I know us as men, once we got a goal, we're gonna get to it eventually. But along the way, how do you keep that, like, family dynamic strong and healthy?

Well, uh, well, one, you can listen to my sermons. Just kidding. Check me out on YouTube, by the way, before I forget. Bill will be so upset. We've got our, our YouTube page is growing like, is growing really fast. And, and we got a guy, Bill, he's like, "Please mention YouTube." So check me out on YouTube. So we'll leave a link in the description. Bobby, YouTube for messages. Thank you. David. No, no. But this is a key thing. We talk about a lot. And short term, it's a very quick thing. A secular book I would read that helps with this a lot is called "The E-Myth," and I think it's now called "The E-Myth Revisited." And for those of your business owners out there, I've owned a number of businesses. A, uh, plumbing construction company. I own a granite import manufacturing company before real estate business and other things. So I, you know, the, the, the, the myth is that I have to do it all myself. And actually, um, one of the best things you can learn as a business owner, it's very hard to let go. It's actually this thing we were talking about before. That 10 times is easier than two times. Because 10 times forces you to think about hiring somebody or buying a tractor or creating something that isn't me working 80 hours instead of 40 hours. There's almost no scenario except right at the beginning of a business when you start it up, that any person should have to sacrifice family and time and, and all of that stuff. I don't think that just means you're not very good at business. Actually. It sounds so harsh and arrogant, but the truth is that you have to put the systems in place. If you're going to overwork, focus for like, like get your family together and be like, "I realize I have not been there for you in the same way that God wants me to. That my values, do not, my values are family and, and faith, but my actions do not align with my values. And the result of that is self-hatred." Which is true, by the way. If your actions don't align, it's self-hatred. As a Christian, you'll hate yourself. And so I don't want to hate myself anymore. I want to to love and be grateful for who I am, that I've become like Christ in the world today through the Holy Spirit. So this is what I'm going to do. One, I want you to pray with me that God would bless the business so they don't have to look over anymore. But two, over the next three months, I'm not going to be around as much anymore like I have, just like I have been. But this next three months is going to be me trying to hand off my business or change my business so that I have an operator or to grow it enough that I have the capital. And if it doesn't work out, I'm going to sell or shut down my business. And I'm serious. The person should do that. Um, because the whole reason you want a business, if you're have to be all the time, it's not a business, it's a job. And you could probably make more money in a job. A business should run, you know, mostly on its own by having it. So the E-Myth teaches us that, um, I hand these things off to other people, not in a way where I'm like, "Here you go," but I work really hard to train and create a great team and a great ethos. And then I manage the machine. I don't run the machine. I work over the business, not in the business. Business, I work on the business, but not in the business. And, uh, and that's the, that's the very practical recommendation. And if you can't do that, get rid of the business. It's garbage. It's just garbage. And, uh, start a new one or do something else.

It's so harsh and offensive. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I've had plenty of failed businesses, broken businesses. Very often, selling or shutting down your business and starting again fresh is the best thing you can do. And a lot of people don't realize they can probably sell their business too. If it's making a little money, you can usually get about two to three times whatever your EBITDA is, your your net profit for your business, you can usually sell it. And if you have no EBITDA, it's trash. Sell or close your business or grow it. But don't just keep doing what you're doing. It's kind of like, um, there's this moment in people's lives where it's like, you see the top of the mountain, and you climb the mountain, you climb, climb, climb, you get about 80% of the way up, and you realize, "I was on the wrong path. This is a dead end." And you, it's all as a cliff. And you can, you're so close to the top, you can see it, it's right there. But the only way to truly get there is to go all the way back down to the trailhead and go up the right path to get there. This will happen, I promise. If the three of you are big achievers, and I believe you will be, especially you, but you guys too, you'll, this will happen in your life. You might already be there. You might already be on that wrong path and you don't even know it. And, and you'll get, and sometimes it's like a test because God's like, "Is it mine or is it yours?" You know? You'll be like, and you will get to a wall. And the only way to really get to the top is to go all the way back down and start over. And you think, "I can't do that. I'm so close." But the truth is, in, in something like business or ministry or other things, the real thing that you have is what's in you. It's who you've become. So it's really, so getting to that summit's not going to be hard. But when you're so close, because going down is hard too, like selling your business is tough, firing people is tough. So going back down to the trailhead and going all the way back up to the summit, that is hard. And, uh, but it just, it has to be done. There's sometimes where that literally has to be done. And, and, um, it's just, it's just part of life.

What, what we don't understand is that that business owner has all these tools. And, and if you want your life to get better, you just have to become better. You know? That's, Pastor Bobby, thank you so much for spending time with us. I know I enjoyed this. This, I know the gentlemen here also enjoyed it. So we appreciate you, uh, joining us on this podcast. And thank you for joining us here for another episode of The Encounter Podcast. And until next time, remember, nothing is impossible with God.