Having A Good Eye For Untapped Ball Python Morphs | The Recap NBB Episode

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Trap Talk Reptile Network. The coolest reptile network in the world. Episode 681. New Breed on the Block. The Recap. Get my man Dorian back. The Royal Clutch. Round two. Finally. He's here for a reason because he, you know, we got a lot to talk about for sure. Uh, listen, if this is your first time tapping in, do me a favor. If you're enjoying what you're seeing and you're not already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button and also hit that like button. Drop a comment in the comment section. Let me know what you like best out of each episode every Monday night. Come correct. Me and a bit of course, Biggie Top Garino reptiles in the building. What's good?

>> What's up? What's up, player?

>> Happy Monday. Happy Monday.

>> Damn. I I feel like um because I went to Bills that week wasn't really a full week of podcasting. Last week wasn't a full week of podcasting. I just podcast Monday. Dude, once a week is [ __ ] easy, dude. That's That reminded me. I don't think I've ever been once a week, but man, just doing once a week is [ __ ] You must love that.

>> Hey, I listen. That's all I know.

>> Sometimes I'll do twice a week. I mean, when I do twice a week, I ain't gonna lie. I feel that [ __ ]

>> No, man. It just it just reminds me like, god damn, like taking a break, it just feels like I haven't been doing this a lot, but all it just a couple weeks of just me doing less. And anyways, I'm excited, bro. Got Dorian back. Um, I've been wanting Dorian to come back for a while, but I think over a year ago, he told me he was doing things on the low as far as not breeding, which we're going to get into the whole details of that. Um, but then now, you know, obviously this year coming out of the gates [ __ ] with some sick production. Him and I have very uh similar tastes with some of these untapped projects that we're gonna be talking about tonight. So, if you're a super gravel, super asphalt uh fan like myself. Um, I mean, you [ __ ] with that project, too, right? You I mean, I don't think you work it.

>> Not clown. I don't really um I got very little of the highway stuff.

>> Yeah.

>> Eventually I want to put it into True Ghost and stuff like that. But um yeah, this one this one is uh you know, sometimes we'll bring on a guest that

>> I'm really close to. This is this is your guy. You know, I I want to get to know him a little better. We had him on with the Allstars, but that was a crowded um

>> Kind of a crowded show. So

>> Yeah. Uh Dorian's automatic memory with Dorian was me meeting him at Tinley. My first Tinley um at the bar. He was just posted up. Pretty sure he had his shirt with his logo on on on the shirt and that's when I was able to be like, "Oh [ __ ] that's you." You know, because a lot of people don't show their faces on social media, you know, not that they're doing on purpose, it's just about snakes. And so, um, it was just he's one of those dudes who I've always [ __ ] with his work and, you know, seeing him at a place like Tinley, which that was our story, right? Remember we met out at Tinley and that's and that's why, man, I know I can't really confirm this yet. I might actually will be going to Tinley after all. Maybe I know I pulled out, but now I might be pulling in. Pause. So, we'll see. Um, but I just want to say Tinley is where a lot of magical memories goes down, dude. It's It's a fun [ __ ] place. Um and a good place to recreate more memories. Anyways, I might go to Tinley. But yeah, Dorian, what a guy. Um I'm excited, man. Okay, let's get to you. I always got to ask my dog, Big E, how's weekend's been? I need updates. You know what I mean? I feel like I'm missing out. What's going on with you, bro?

>> Uh we did a one day show, got back home, worked a little bit yesterday with the animals. Um then took the rest of the day off. It's been good. Working on the hatchling room. The all the hatchlings are now in the hatchling room. Uh gonna get some creo caging next week.

>> Things are going. Uh got to get ready for that pairing yellowtail creos for the first time

>> This MBKs.

>> It's going to be fun, man. Uh lots of learning. Um, you know, so

>> It's cool to get your mind off just one thing, right? Like especially because you already know your your engine your welloiled machine is the ball pythons. Like you don't I'm pretty sure you could do that blindfolded at this point.

>> Um

>> But you know getting your motors

>> turning in other areas of your brain I feel like makes everything more like you appreciate everything more you know and and and you're going to get a taste of that obviously this end of this year coming next year.

>> Yeah. Um, you know, but like we always say, you can't take your your uh your eyes off off the ball python game because it's constantly changing. So, we we constantly have to be adjusting and looking. So, yeah, I'm doing that, but I'm also paying attention to every little analytic out there of the game. That way, you know, I could adjust and my people can adjust or, you know, we could all adjust at any second, you know. So,

>> Yeah.

>> All right. We're going to get into more details tonight. Dude, just want to remind everybody that uh rap trap reptile network is seven days a week. All right. So, Monday through Sunday, you can find a new episode right here on this network. And you can listen to all these episodes on all major audio platforms. Buzz Sprout, Apple Podcast, Spotify. Okay? And wherever you listen to any of these episodes, make sure you rate, review, and subscribe on those platforms as well. Shout out to tonight's sponsor, Prague Morphs out of Europe. Uh my favorite couple doing it in Europe out of Prague and their projects are definitely top tier. Some of my favorites. Wish I was hitting some of the stuff they're hitting, man. That's for sure. But uh day by day, man, like Amelio was saying, you don't take your eye off the ball and that's what these two are doing. Their eyes are all over this ball python game and you should go check it out yourself. Pragm um Instagram and also check them out on YouTube. Definitely head over to their website. You can find all the links in the description below. But thank you so much Devin and Terza over at Prague Morphs. Also, tonight's episode's brought to you by RGI, Rare Genetic, Inc., the best shed company in the hobby. If you got a ball python shed, okay, also colubrid, and I don't know, man, check it out. They got a lot going on at RGI. Get your shed tested with the best. All right. Thank you so much, Sean and Ben. I know I have one panel uh I feel like I need a schedule before the end of the year, and it's going to be a heavy one, okay? So, be ready for that. Thank you so much. Also, for now, just head over to their YouTube, subscribe, and check them out on Instagram. RGI, thank you so much for everything that you do. And of course, we always talk about if you want to look like you're ahead of the the the game or I should say curve, especially coming into this. You want to be organized, you want to look fresh, do it with Clutch, man. Definitely cutting edge and top tier organization app in the Ball Python game. Thank you so much, Sebastian, and the entire team over there at Clutch. Um, check them out on IG as well and try them out for 30 days, man. I highly recommend it. Shout out to Clutch again and the entire Clutch team. And then uh last but not least uh tonight's episode uh is brought brought to you by uh Sundown Reptiles. Thank you so much Brian Susan. If you're looking to get into tree monitors, Cahooa. All right. By the way, Cahooa game is popping right now. But if you're looking to get into chewies, uh geckos, high-end geckos, um abonia, gargoyle geckos, check out Sundown Reptiles. Go to his website, sundownretiles.com. And I know Brian is in um Chakata I think right now or Sirong. Anyways, he's out there in the wilderness. He's he's in the wild doing it. So, hope you're doing big things over there, Brian. Hope you get back here safely. And yeah, shout out to Brian Susan over at Sundown Reptiles. And yeah, you ready to bring on Dorian? You ready for this round two, dude? Or what?

>> Let's do it.

>> All right. Shout out to everyone in the chats, dude. Bunit family, Patreon member, the Trappers, you guys are all here. You guys are ready to go. It's that time. Do what you got to do to get your mind right and do what you got to do to stay hydrated for episode 681. New Breed on block the recap with Dorian from the Royal Clutch coming at you right now. Let's go.

>> Good.

>> You ready for do more in the future trap talk podcastes?

>> Yes.

>> Only only trap talk exclusive.

>> Exclusive only. So stop calling us or not. I'm hot from the spot. Get the club when I come up the spot. Get the club when I come up the spot. Get the club. When I come up the spot, get the club when I come up. Everybody, we do it. Everybody, we do it. Do it. Do it. Do it spot. Get the club when I come up with the spot. Get the club when I come up. The spot. Get the pop when I come up. Spot the And we're live. Episode 681. Welcome back, Dorian. What's up, player?

>> Oh, what's up? How y'all doing?

>> Doing all right, man. How you living?

>> Man, I'm just I'm just doing it, you know, just getting up every day, grinding it out.

>> Behind the scenes.

>> Ever.

>> Behind the scenes, but in the scenes. It's It's crazy.

>> Yeah. I'm just hanging out, dude. Hey, have you met uh Amelio at Doll at like either Tinley or at any other show? I can't remember if you met him.

>> No.

>> No, we haven't met in person. We just talked every now and then on Instagram and on the uh on the Allstars one last time. So,

>> Okay, that's what's up. Well, listen again. Welcome back. I remember uh let's kind of refresh on how I hit you up over a year ago and I was like, "What's up, Dorian? I need to get you back on the show." And you What did you say? You were like,

>> "What? I'm chilling, bro. Like, I'm taking a break off. I'm not even breeding right now."

>> Yeah. And and and how did I how did I take it? I totally understood, right? I was like,

>> "I get it." Right.

>> Yeah. You were like, "I know you still hanging out in the background checking everything out. We'll get to you back when you get back in the game." So, it's all good.

>> And I want to start that I want to start that off as a the you know, the the the start off topic of tonight. You know, like when is it necessary? You feel like where either you don't need to breed or you don't need to be so active like there. I feel like there's a time and place, especially when you're content with your collection, where if there's something you need to do either as far as like taking a break from posting so much or doing so much, you should do it. You feel like Right.

>> Right. Yeah. So, like for me, it was just, you know, I know a lot of people probably didn't understand like, dude, why would you take like a whole year off from breeding? You're going to get, you know, a year behind. But like, I know my collection. I'm in tune with my collection. if I'm not comfortable breeding certain things at a certain age, I won't do it. Um that to me there was no point in, you know, repeating pairings that I didn't think I needed to do at the time because I got what I needed from the clutch. The market was doing whatever it needed to do and I just didn't see a point in me producing a bunch of a bunch of animals not really being certain on, you know, what the market was doing. So, I had to be comfortable with what I was doing um instead of just making animals just to make them. If that makes sense.

>> Right? Because you knew there was already going to be a million different versions of them already being made basically in a sense.

>> Yeah. I mean, somewhat. It's like I already made it, right? So, like my collection is in the in the point of I'm making stuff for me, right? So, it's like I've done this pairing. I got what I needed out of it. I don't really need to do it again. if that makes sense. Like I had animals that were growing up that like I could have pushed it to try to get them to go that year or, you know, breed my males a little on the smaller side, but I have, you know, I kind of want my males to have some size on them before I start throwing them at females. So, it was just like, you know what? I'm just going to let the market do what it's doing. I'mma take my time, let my males get up to size, and then come out next year with my boys just going ham. and that's what they're doing right now. So,

>> Yeah. And Amelia, was there ever a time, you know, with the 20 plus years you've been doing this, you had to sit back and not do as much or pull back a little bit?

>> Well, I I I wouldn't say I ever took a year off, but um I was never in a hurry.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, it was never a financial thing for me. Yeah. I wanted to produce a project ASAP, right? But um much like Darien is saying, Dorian, sorry.

>> Oh, good, brother. It happens all the time.

>> Yeah, my bad. Um

>> Yeah, not good.

>> At least I caught it. Um uh I I was I was more about the animals maturing and and taking less risk for the animal on the animals. So, I'm with you there. I mean, I I think it's I think it's uh sometimes you have to wait that extra year or that extra six to eight months. uh it's it's better for the animal. And uh

>> Yeah.

>> that extra year on the female, the eggs and the babies are probably going to be better. You're gonna get more eggs. Um

>> You know, robust babies. Uh nobody talks about that really, you know.

>> Right.

>> Yeah. And also, you know, with the market being where it was at the time, like I'm not going to sugarcoat it or like it was a point and I was like, dude, like I don't even know if I'm going to stay and do it right because there was just so much negativity

>> going around like, you know, there's a lot of people that came in around the same time that I got in and they were getting out, you know. So, when you see something like that, you're like, am I the idiot for staying around? and are they making the right call and moving on? But then, you know, the sensible side of me kicks in is like, you know, you've only, you know, gotten a certain amount of clutches under your belt. Like, the point of this isn't to get into it and buy animals from somebody else and then pair them one time and say, "Oh, it's not working." Like I'm like I don't think that you can get out of the hobby and not even see like the production of your production because that's kind of the point because somebody else could have just bought those animals that you bought and put them together. You get what I'm saying? But like when you start making your own males and making your own females and start seeing things come together,

>> then that's when you're really doing it. My opinion. So I told myself like I I can't get out and not really do it because then like what did I even do get into it for in the first place. So um there's also that aspect to it. So I mean you know that that one year it was a lot of stuff going on man you a lot of lot of soul searches like oh what do I do I really want to do this but

>> It was very it was very eye opening moment you know. Yeah, for sure.

>> And but the thing is the eye opening moments haven't stopped yet. Like we still see fools checking out. Um and I and I hear people in the back on the background like get maybe setting up departure and and closing up shop after so many years, you know, and it's kind of and I'm hearing some names where I'm like, whoa, really? Like

>> Damn, you know, like that's crazy. But all I could think about is like m maybe the ones because I feel like the ones that started checking out were maybe the the the the early COVID people who had like a timeline. They had a certain amount they were trying to hit. They're trying to resell. And then I feel like the ones that we're going to start seeing now maybe are the ones that just have crazy overhead and they're just tired of keeping up with it. They're just over it. They're like literally over it. And they're also trying to see the value. Like what's the return feeding all this [ __ ] and going to shows and now making because I guarantee bro I I'm never they're not making nearly no what much as they are used to making at these shows now. Um and I'm talking like these guys were making [ __ ] clearing 20 30k like with their eyes closed, you know? And and now I'm hearing stories of fools barely clearing like 4K and and for them even though 4K I would [ __ ] be happy as [ __ ] We're going going the Sizzler, you know what I mean? But for them, for them, bro, like 4K is not cutting it, you know, especially with how much it costs for them to travel wherever the hell they're traveling from, dude. It's it's it's the eye opening thing. It's we're still in the thick of it, bro. I feel like

>> Yeah. And then, you know, it's just one of those things where you just gota it's just

>> Write it out.

>> Yeah. You get keep your head down, write it out if it's something,

>> Especially if you love it. Especially if you like this, right? Because because here's the thing, like I feel like I don't know. Let me ask you, where do you feel like the negativity levels at right now in the hobby? Do you still feel it? Like do you still like there's still people out there making this game look bad because either they're checking out or they never made it or whatever? I mean, are you or you think it's kind of less now? What what are your what's your thoughts on that?

>> I wouldn't say there's any more or less per se. I do think that there's people that can focus more on the animals than the drama, right? Like I'm not really a I'm not really a big fan of the drama. I'm here to breed snakes

>> Um and make and make some cool animals. It'd be nice and honestly it'd be great to make some money along with it, you know, but

>> I'm not really uh interested in all of the negativity and all that stuff. So I honestly when I see it, I ignore it. So, I I don't even really like know how much of is going on because I'm like, "Ah, I'm done with that."

>> It doesn't serve you. Like, it like it it has no like you have no interest. It's like It's like flipping through the channel and just seeing something where you're like, "What the [ __ ] This ain't Monday Night Raw." I'm like, "I'm [ __ ] changing this shit." You know what I mean? Like,

>> Yeah, exactly. Stop watching this.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I have no Yeah, I have no interest in that.

>> Yeah. Go ahead, Biggie. I'm sorry. I know you want to say something.

>> People are at each other's throats, man. It's hard. It's uh the game is much more competitive right now. Everyone's vying for influence. Um, lots of people are just faking it. So, the people that are faking it are getting a lot of push back. Um, it's it's a really really really competitive game right now. And what I would say to people out there, aside from the negativity and the the jockeying for influence, um, is for me, right, what's always kept me in this is the love of the game,

>> The passion for the animals, right, the therapeutic aspect of what we do. So for me, even doing it full-time, I have to ensure, right, that I keep my collection to a point where it doesn't I don't lose the passion for what I do.

>> Yeah.

>> And that's what most people should be doing out there. And I understand that during CO and right before CO or during the windfall, everyone's set up to [ __ ] go apehit and and make massive money and all that, but those that are in the background thinking about leaving, maybe they should just reduce their collection,

>> Chill out a little bit,

>> Keep doing their thing, you know, maybe take a year off like you did.

>> A year off like Dorian did. Yeah. Like and Yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry. But you

>> Don't get out, man. you built something amazing. Uh, keep going. Just draw it down a little bit. If you got to go back to work, go back to work. But man, stay. Don't go. I mean,

>> That's that's how I look at it. You know, lower that overhead.

>> I agree with you 100%.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And, you know, listen, you know, I feel like when because I always thought in my head, we, you know, we've talked on this show like you if you can make it to the fiveyear mark, right? like you're almost solidified. Like you're almost like you're you're etched into the game. I feel like if you're here for five years, but then after that five year mark, guess what? You have to be care be careful about getting [ __ ] getting overworked and burning yourself out. Uh because it's like cool, you made it five years, but how big is your collection in five years, right? How much stuff are you actually feeding and working and breeding or versus how much just having because you just have it, right? Like how how good are you about your overhead after five years? Because I feel like people people run on a certain [ __ ] level of energy for so long, dude. And by the time they run out of steam, they look around and they go, "Holy [ __ ] I got so much stuff I don't need. Like, I got like this is crazy, you know?" And the thing is, they're just so used to it. And it's it's kind of hard to stop a a [ __ ] a welloiled machine like that, dude. When you got a collection that is like and you have employees, too. Like, think about some of these people who have employees, right?

>> Yeah, bro. Like the levels of this can get as deep as you want it. I feel like and I feel like the ones that weren't careful about the overhead, you know, and and relied so much on vending and sales to be like how they were um at a certain point and and then also not paying attention, right? Because like I said, man, you it was cool that you had a good two three year run, but what are your CL where's your projects heading? Like did you just stop or are you continue to invest? Like are you still like that's one thing about I love about Josh uh Lumbberg from uh Ball Python Shed and like people like Jason Kittinger and Bob Vu. Like those fools are always making sick ass [ __ ] You know what I'm saying? They don't they don't ever plateau because you can't plateau in ball pythons. That's the thing. Once you plateau and you [ __ ] hit the wall and you don't do anything about it, you're gonna be you're gonna fall back behind really quickly, you know, and next thing you know, you're gonna be breeding [ __ ] that you you're not going to be able to sell, you know, for whatever reason, you know, possibly. So,

>> Yeah. No, 100%.

>> But then again, if the sales don't matter, then there you go. Like there's this doesn't even retain to you. Like this this should not even matter to you if it's about the money. Period. God and God bless you if that's you, you know? Good for you. We're also creatures of habit, right? If you're used to having two employees or or whatnot, whatever, right? Uh and you have to, let's say you have to let some people go and you you know, you have to adjust your business.

>> Yeah.

>> Some people don't want to go back to working the animals, you know, some people don't want to go back to to that stuff. So, some of them

>> They don't they don't go back. They don't adjust. So, they just want to just they want to go. I mean, I I again, I don't understand. I don't understand it. I can't. I won't. Uh, never will. Um, that's why I do my best to just I do all the work most of the time. I have a part-timer that comes once in a while and I try not to get fully used to that because you know what? We we do we get used to it, you know?

>> Yeah. I think there's a certain connection we should never lose as keepers with our animals. Like, and if it's [ __ ] picking up [ __ ] it's picking up [ __ ] I don't I'm never too good to pick up my condro [ __ ] but I will I will say I look at the ball pythons thinking I wish I had some help because like I said, I admire taking these [ __ ] and like I like the ball pythons, don't get me wrong, but man, you know, I have a lot more of them than I do of these. And so, um, but yeah, at the end of the day, dude, I it is hard work, but it's such a [ __ ] piece of mind that I have nobody coming in here to work for me at all because obviously like that's another overhead. And I don't know, I just I want to stay tapped in. And if I have to lower the amount of animals I have to keep that to where I don't need an employee, then I'll do that. Like, I don't mind doing that.

>> Um, because I don't want to get to that level. Like, I mean, I don't I don't think it's necessary in a time like this. Um but I just know I'm not that 100 clutch type guy ever period. You know what I mean? I'm I'm good on that. That's just it's a and and shout out to the ones who are you know I shout out to my boy Miguel man who always pythons. I think he just had a clutch 79. That's [ __ ] murder bro. Shout out to you bro. That's that's g and you know for somebody who was like looked upon as gonna be like a [ __ ] one hit wonder. here this guy is eight years deep into the game still very very very relevant like

>> Going hard.

>> And then also opening up a whole market in Mexico and putting them on like that's come on dude that's that that dude's living up to his name for sure to a man.

>> Yeah, for sure.

>> Yeah. I don't know uh I think the last time I came on the show I had said something about wanting to do 80 clutches. I don't I don't want to limit myself but I don't No, I don't I don't know. Uh, one thing uh about that year off was like so I wasn't producing clutches, so I was literally feeding and cleaning these animals for free, right? So that that puts a lot of stuff into perspective, too, when you're like, man, like why am I doing this? And then I get back into the start hatching some clutches and start seeing some stuff come out behave. I'm like, oh, that's why.

>> Yeah. So, yeah, we And they were amazing, let me tell you.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. For sure.

>> And and and you know, obviously I said before we got started tonight, you know, um you and I have similar taste with, you know, the projects that we are basically [ __ ] sought after. I think you were probably one of the first people I sent over [ __ ] what I thought was a pavement uh clown hypo. Remember, man, we remember we thought

>> Yeah, I remember you sent that. I was actually watching TV, posted up, just watching some TV and I get that text and I see that in the egg. I'm like, yo, because it did look like a hypo, but man, you cut it two days too early.

>> I cut it a lot earlier than that. I [ __ ] up, bro. I cut that egg like on day 49 or some [ __ ] I don't know. Way too early, bro. But that's what [ __ ] with me because almost anything will look hypo if you cut a little early. You know what I'm saying?

>> They're all hypo. They're all hypo on day 49. And that it's been a minute since I did that to myself and god damn I hit up I hit up Amelio after that. Like once you told me and I forgot who else told me like oh yeah that's it. I went I went everywhere after that. I just couldn't believe it.

>> Yeah. I wasn't on the story at all.

>> And sure enough, bro, [ __ ] I'm as the days because the days were going by and I'm like dude I [ __ ] hella cut these early. And I'm like just chill. Give give us some time. I know. I didn't check on them for like four days and they were still well in the egg. And I go and I'm like, "Bro, that's not the same color."

>> But hey, everyone does it. It's just what happens is after a good amount of time, you learn to just

>> Shut up and not say nothing, you know?

>> MJ shut up. That's impossible, bro. I don't know how to

>> No, I mean I mean after a while it happens a few times. Like it's happened to all of us, bro. Like

>> Yeah. So,

>> Yeah. No, I had a um I had a baby this year. I cut the clutch and uh because I just couldn't contain my excitement. I told myself I wasn't cutting this year. And

>> I feel like we all tell ourselves that every year and then

>> Day 52 rolls around and those eggs look dimpled. Those scissors start calling your name. So, um I cut the I cut the clutch and it was this highway combo. And in the egg, like at the time, dude, it was white, purple, and orange. I was like, "Dude, we did it. We did something. I can't wait."

>> And then three days go over by and it's it's just orange and orange and black. Which it was still cool. But

>> It was still cool. And I was like, man, that would have been a lot cooler if it would have been what it looked like three days ago.

>> Yeah.

>> All right. So, I got to I want to talk to you about this uh Dorian because I feel like obviously there was a big run for the highway and the freeway stuff in this hobby. Like very very popular sought after project definitely well before double recessives and all that [ __ ] became such a popular thing in the hobby, right? And and I feel like right when the double like right when DG [ __ ] started popping off and like these other double recessives I feel like all the focus obviously off stock like all the focus on stacked incomplete dominance went away. Like people stopped [ __ ] caring about them like because they they realized that's not where this is headed. We got to put this recessive [ __ ] in it, right? Which kind of left the whole gate open for a lot of incomplete dominance that looked awesome in super form. Um I always like like I Okay, here's the thing. I always loved Highway, but I always had a thing with yellow belly, like only because you can make, you know, if you're not careful or if you're not don't know what the [ __ ] you got, you're going to make ivories. And not that that's a bad thing, but you don't want to make a bunch of ivories. Who got time for that [ __ ] I didn't have time for that. So I and I also was such a great [ __ ]

>> Man by when I found out what a highway was, I knew I I saw what an super asphalt was or super gravel. And so I knew those two made that and whatever. But that was one of my one of my beginning projects was super gravel, super asphalt, like you know, and I didn't get into asphalt till well later after super gravel. But do you feel like I'm right? Like do you feel like super gravel and [ __ ] got slept on for a minute? Um because of the direction a lot of the recessive stuff stuff that was showing was doing for the hobby and and like, you know, that's why we haven't seen enough of the super gravel stuff quite yet. like it's getting it's starting but it's nowhere near where it's going to be in the next few years. What do you have to say to that?

>> Yeah, I think uh a lot of it may have come from you know the whole double and triple recessive thing, but I think you know for me what happened is the way that I learned how the genes work. It was just like a these are kind of all the same, right? They all work the exact same way except for a head clown. You can't really see that it's head clown. So I was like, well the super gravels I don't they don't gravel doesn't make a white snake. So it's like I would much rather have the gravel stuff. I I can still work yellow belly and pair it to gravel stuff and make stuff like that. Like that's cool. Um

>> And what is this real quick? Um, this is a

>> So, I have it pinned right now. I haven't sent the shed test off yet. I just want to be sure. But right now, I think that is a inchy leopard red stripe highway clown.

>> Oh, damn. That thing's fire, dude. [ __ ] Okay, continue. Sorry.

>> When that came. Yeah. So, um, I do think that, you know, the recessives kind of like overshadow some of the genes because, you know, a lot of people were like, "Oh, I need to make hypo clowns. I need to make DG clowns. We need to make G-Strike clowns."

>> Stuff like that. So, you know, it's understandable, but it was just like, you know, when I got in the game, a lot of people were telling me, you know, just don't try to follow the crowd. Just find something that you like and work and work that. So, I was like, I really think the Super Gravel Clown stuff will be cool. So, I decided to go that route and I'm trucking along with that now. Like I got breeder super gravel clown girls now, which is crazy to even think of because in 2020 I didn't, you know, it's just like, yeah, I want to have them, but it's like when I like started out, I was like, you know, like I don't even know what any of this stuff's going to look like now.

>> Yeah.

>> You're popping out eggs and stuff like that. So, um,

>> You guys you guys both got into that project more or less at the same time, maybe. Um,

>> Would you say

>> Would you say that some people stayed away because of the yellow belly

>> And potential of of killing so many ivories?

>> I think that stacking like anything that had multiple jeans like in order to be in this project, you're going to have to work multiple genes and so and it was incomplete dominance. I feel like at that time people wanted to kind of steer away from. What do you have to say Dorian?

>> I can hear you. Right back. I can hear you.

>> Okay. I also think that what happened is uh I think that um a good chunk of people probably didn't really understand how the complex works, right? Because you remember when you know we just we found out that the cryptic looking animals that were coming from clowns, they were getting bred the pet cryptics and they were popping out kryptonons and it like was blowing people away where they were like trying to figure out like how that actually worked when it's like oh it's a leic well how does it work when it's a leic? But working with highways and super gravels and stuff like that, I knew exactly how that worked. And I'm, you know, and I think that the complexity of it, trying to understand it may throw some people off and some other people may just I really don't know if that's what it is. But I think that, you know, because I've had conversations with people where they're like, "Oh, well, how does this actual actually work? How do you make a highway? How do you know it's a super gravel versus a highway? You know, so I think that, you know, it could get kind of confusing. I think shed testing is going to help with that. When they got the gravel and the yellow belly and the asphalt and all of those that whole complex nailed down in the shed testing, I thought that was a great thing because it's like, all right, well now when I do breed a highway to something, I can test a whole clutch and they can tell me which one's a yellow belly and which one's a gravel. So, I think that uh I just

>> Okay. So, you do have yellow belly in some of yours.

>> You don't have just super gravel stuff.

>> No, that animal that you just showed, that's a highway clown. So, that's a um

>> That's a yellow belly. Yeah, that's a yellow belly gravel. Like, obviously, you know, naturally I'm going to have yellow belly stuff. That is a super gravel.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah, that thing sick.

>> I I love I love this thing, man. I it's it's has it's more black, you know, because, you know, I love the one I made, but it's has OD in it and and mine's great, but like I'm a dark guy. Like I like the dark [ __ ] you know? And so this shit's like, man, I What a [ __ ] banger. It's a female or male?

>> Uh not sure yet. And don't ask me what it is because I have no idea.

>> What do you mean like everything that's in it or just like the sex? Who?

>> Yeah, I don't I don't even know what that animal is. I'm be honest with you.

>> What's the pairing? Tell me what the pairing was.

>> Uh, it was a gravel Batman to a pastel super gravel clown.

>> A gravel Batman.

>> Yeah.

>> So, Batman is

>> Leopard spotnose gravel clown.

>> Gravel clown

>> To a super to a pastel super gravel clown.

>> Damn.

>> Yeah. And then that popped out and I'm like I thought it was but I know that's not I know for a fact now that that's not a leopard super gravel because I just hatched it. Right.

>> Right.

>> So, it's like and I don't think it's a spot nose because somebody in Korea or Japan has a spot nose super gravel clown or no the dudes in Hong Kong. Um he has a spotnose supergrable clown and that thing's sick and that's not what that is. So, I'm like, "All right. Well,

>> Okay. It could it could stay."

>> Did you post a super gravel leopard clown yet?

>> Nope.

>> Damn.

>> I haven't posted anything from that clutch yet. I really like that.

>> And so how many how many more super gravel clown combos have you made?

>> Um this last clutch I hit four.

>> Damn.

>> Yeah. And then the clutch that this one was in there was two. So I've had six this year and then I got two breeders.

>> So I'm at I'm up to eight now.

>> Damn. Killing it.

>> Yeah, dude. I'm I'm super excited. I'm like, I'm ready to get legs under it. Right. So, the thing with the gravel is like obviously that's a tough one to ID. And like I said, we have

>> The testing for it, but

>> If I got a super gravel male,

>> I know everything's going to be gravel

>> And I would prefer it be that way. Like my thing with codeons is I don't mind like like I treat mandarin gravel lace all the same. I'm not breeding those for the single dose. I'm breeding those for the doubles. I'm treating those like recessives

>> Because now with the shed testing, I mean, they're pretty much the same thing. So yeah,

>> It's like, you know, I I think that the project has legs. I think that now seeing some of this stuff pop out of the egg,

>> I'm like, "Okay, we could definitely do something with this." Um, so I'm just looking forward to see where I could where I could take these things in the next three years. Dude, I'm super stoked about the project.

>> That's exactly how everyone should be looking at those three genes in my opinion.

>> Yeah. So, I've only seen one or two examples, I want to say. And, you know, I don't know. I'm not going to say it's going to make me steer the other way from this direction,

>> But I also look at it as a godsend that I didn't hit hypo that snake because have you looked at any of the super gravel hypo clown stuff and what do you feel like it's it does to like the way it smacks? Like cuz I feel like one thing I love about what we what we made like you could see the [ __ ] how it pops even through the camera and I feel like hypo is going to take that away. Um what do what do you think of that?

>> I think it just all depends on the combo. Right. Because there's going to be super gravels and highways like the one that you showed earlier with all the orange. Right.

>> Right.

>> Hypo would go crazy in that combo because of the orange. It's just going to amp the orange up so much.

>> So, it just all depends on the combo. I think that, you know, with the darker stuff with the Super Gravel DG is going to be really nice. I think that White Lace Super Gravel Clown stuff or White Lace Super Gravel combos in general are going to be sick. Um, you know, we know that Superman and Hypo looks good. Super mandarins look good, but when you add hypo on top of it, it looks better. So, what happens when you make a super gravel Superman or hypo?

>> But, and you know, and that's funny that you say that because it's like when I'm pairing these snakes, my daughter and my wife don't look at them like, "Oh,

"that snake's brown." And then like I know what it's going to be able to make. And then I show them the babies and they're like, "Oh my gosh, that's so cool. That's so pretty." I'm like, "Yeah, those two brown snakes that you were talking about, they made this."

Right. So, right. It's like, you know, even if the hypo doesn't smack hard in just a bone stock super gravel clown, you're going to need that animal for the next stepping stone when you try to interject it in the other stuff. So, even if that doesn't look good, the next step will. I'm so glad I asked you that, bro, because now you got my you got my excitement of sticking hypo to to what I'm doing with it.

Oh, yeah, bro. Yeah, because I know you got the GHI stuff, too. You know how GHI You know how GHI hypo does. So you do like even like a super GHI super gravel hypo clown. Like, bro, come on.

And what's crazy is I have GHI I have GHI gravel 100% double hat clown hypo [ __ ] that's going to be ready here by next year.

Yeah. Are you trying to tell me that's not going to look good?

You might. Okay. But let me ask you this though. In your eyes, like where do you feel like what Okay, we talked about hypo, right? But if we if we were to put Super Mandarin hypo stuff on the shelf, like what what's another recessive do you feel like would be just money in a Super Gravel project? Clown. Super gravel clown project, excuse me.

Are we taking DG off the table, too?

No. Hell no. If you think DG should be a part of it, let me know.

Yeah, for sure. But but okay, but DG eliminates pattern, right? So

it it can, but I don't see it eliminating the I don't see it eliminating the pattern from a super gravel because the pattern's so strong, right? And then all the like the alien heads and stuff like that is just boom. It's just gonna I I think it's gonna it's gonna pop. It's going to feed off the darks and it's gonna, you know, make those yellows a little bit more contrasty. So, I mean, I'm going for hype. Yeah, I'm going for hypo DG version. I want to see it all, you know.

So, super gravel paint would be really cool.

Yeah. I actually uh I got two paint girls that should be ready to go uh this season that I'm going back and forth on like which which one's going to see which mail, right? Because that's a project that I'm actually looking forward to a lot.

Um as well too. I think the paint stuff. Um, there's a there's a that lane's wide open. I think Mary's uh over at Rec Room Snakes is making some making some crazy stuff with the paints. Limey at uh at Royal Reptilia, he's making some crazy paint stuff, too. So,

painters painters.

Yeah.

Yeah. Painters going to paint.

Yeah. And also, you know, when it comes to talking about what p how pattern could look [ __ ] next level in a ball python, that's that's all paint right there, right? Paint does that. Um, I'm actually gonna pull that lady's paint up right now because it's pretty [ __ ] sick. Um, I think yeah spotnose yellow belly paints.

Yeah, spotnose yellow belly paint clown. Yeah, that thing is crazy.

So, yeah, this is pretty sick right here. So, what where are you? So, you have two girls that are paint that you're looking to raise up or I'm sorry that are about to be ready to breed here soon or what were we saying about that?

Yeah, I'm just saying I'm just going back and forth on what to do with them. Like you see something like that and you're like I need that.

Yeah, that that's cool. That's super cool. And it's like, you know, when you start talking about Super Gravel, it's like, well, what's Super Gravel going to do in that? That's already crazy.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, it's like

Yeah. I I mean, I found out I found out ju just this year how crazy Spotnos and Clown could look.

Um. Oh, yeah. Like,

so I wonder I wonder because I seen some Paint Clown stuff I think at Justin's. I know you saw some at Justin's, right?

Um, yeah. So, they're okay. Like I I thought like they weren't like this. I'll tell you that much.

Yeah. But this this to me this to me might be the best paint combo I've seen yet.

I I think that's the sickest one I've ever seen. I'll tell you that much.

Without a doubt. But how much is influenced by Spotnos and Yellow Bellies is what I want to know because that's those are two powerful genes right there.

It's the whole it's the whole shebang. You take any one of those genes away from that animal, it doesn't look that crazy.

Okay. Like the spot nose paint clown is still look good. Like they'll all still look good, but the the mashup of those three.

Yeah. Just they just work in that. And that's a that's a good base to go off of when you start adding other stuff to it.

Yeah. That thing is that that that might have changed my mind a little bit about paint, bro.

Yeah. And and then again, you know, we we don't know what a super gravel will look like in that like you were saying. That that might be I don't know. Like I don't want to say overkill, but [ __ ] Like what what could that look like? Like that's already crazy. Like looking at that, it's like what else?

It's wild.

Hey, that snake just uh damn smacks. [ __ ]

Yeah, that thing is because Hey, I have to be honest with you guys. The paint clowns I've seen.

All right, they're okay.

You know, all right. That that's different. Yeah, I do think that that's another thing too. It's like it's like it's difficult to like look at an animal like in its base form like you're saying with the like original paint clown to look at that and it's easy to write something like that off. It's like ah

yeah, [ __ ] it.

It's just but that's just the base. That's just the two recessives on top of it. Like you got to think of like an actual clown. What does a just a base clown look like? Like it's cool, you know, but when you start doing, you know, super hurricane Pompei Batman, just like that doesn't even look like a clown anymore, you know? Like, what is that?

Hold up. This is nuts.

Does Does a single jean clown look cool?

That's what I'm saying. Like looked cool. It looked cool. I'm sure it looked cool as a baby.

The only thing you're looking when the only thing you're used to looking at are bumblebees, you know.

Yeah. When I do regular When I have to have my first clown in 2018, I was so happy. It was the coolest clown I've ever seen to me. But then that got played out.

Yeah. Now you'd sell it to me for 50 bucks. You know, pay it away. I'd find Yeah. I don't even know what I would do with that. I wish I could get 50 bucks for a clown,

right? But that's what I'm saying. And so it's just like once you start adding jeans on top of stuff, that's why you can't ever write a project off, you know?

Like that's why I don't like the whole like team asphalt, team gravel, team monarch, team ultra, all of that stuff because it's like

they all have their purpose.

We Yeah, they all have their purpose. I've seen some Ultramale combos where I'm like, dude, that thing's so sick. Monarch can't do that. You know, but I've also seen Monarch combos where I'm like, Ultra ain't doing that. You know what I mean? So, just like all all in what you want is me as a podcaster and whatnot. I I kind of love seeing people just get worked up over such a ridiculous

right it's like bro like you realize how all those could do major [ __ ] work on their own and and like at some point in time like even talking [ __ ] about pastel we're going to see some [ __ ] that has pastel in it and it has its purpose like you know you just can't eliminate no gene other than spider unfortunately and maybe pure skeus I'm just saying like you can't really eliminate no gene out of this game you all have the potential And they and you just never know. You just never know.

Yeah. If you if you go look on my Instagram in my bio, it says Pastel Advocate in my bio. I just I I um I just hatched a um I got another uh super gravel clown. I got two more that I hatched that have pastel in them. One of them nuts. Like it's nuts. I can't Once it once it sheds, I'll show it. But

it's crazy.

This is one from two years ago. I didn't know this was two years ago, but this was your pastel super gravel Batman.

Yeah. And like now I don't even know if that's what that is, you know? Like that might not even have spot nodes in it.

I'm not sure because I've hatched another one that I'm pretty sure has spot nose in it.

So, are you going to get it tested to know or what are you going to do?

Yeah, I'll test the one that just hatch like that one. I mean, I'll probably test her before I um before I breed her, but uh, yeah, that thing is cool.

What are you What are you going to put to a snake like this? I'm just curious.

I don't even know that I got so many. He don't want to tell us nothing.

Oh, damn you. All the sauce.

Give you all the sauce. I mean, it would be cra it would be crazy in theory if I were to put a Mandarin hypo head clown on that.

That's what he's putting.

Or it would be crazy in theory if I were to say, "Oh, maybe I want to see what Trojan does in that combo. I might put Trojan on it. I might put a black pastel yellow belly hypo DG doublehead G-stripe clown on that. Who knows, dude? Like when when it's time for that when it's time for that to breed, I have no idea what I'm going to do with it.

Yeah. Got to make the decision at that time and that's it.

Yeah. I'm gonna be all in your bumper.

Yeah. Yeah, that thing is super cool. I like that one a lot.

All right. So, let's um let's talk about something else that you're passionate about project-wise or is that like your bread and butter? Would you say the Super Gravel [ __ ] What what do you feel like, you know, as far as like stepping stones to where you want to head in the next five, six are looking like with your projects?

Um, I haven't I haven't I've hatched one puzzle and that's like one of my favorite projects. I'm just now starting to

Oh, yeah.

Um, I'm just now starting to get some headway on that. I got When I first got in, I was like, "Oh, man. I really want to make some uh I really want to make some puzzle clowns. You saw how

I still can.

I still can. I still can. I'm not writing. Like I said, I'm not writing anything off. I can still make them until I'm blue in the face, but who knows if they'll work. But, you know, I can use the double heads as clowns or I can use them as puzzles. Doesn't matter. But, you know, I got some I got some stuff uh that's ready to breed this coming up year that I made a couple of years ago um that is going to be ready to breed this year. So, I'm looking forward to that. And I also uh I just my Mandarin hypo my Mandarin hypo male. He's he's like ready to rock and roll this year. So, um, I got a couple clutches out of him last year. Um, I hope to get a few more than I got out of them last year. This year,

okay, since it's been a couple years, um, there was a time and place where Mandarin was like getting dragged through the mud a little bit because there was some fake ass Mandarin [ __ ] out there and and so anyone who has been working that project and having the real deal Mandarin did feel some type of way from what they were seeing all over Morph Market and [ __ ] Did you pay any attention to that or like what's your overall like, you know, assessment with where Mandarin's at right now and all that [ __ ]

I just made sure I bought real ones.

Who'd you get Who'd you get it from?

TJ.

Yeah, there you go. Shout out to

Yeah. The the thing that really got me with the um with the manner hypos is like when people were going, "Oh, it's a fake jean." Or, "Oh, you know, they don't really look that good in person."

Yeah. I got what hooked me was when I went to Justin's place after he had just bought the two Superman hypo Superman hypos that he got from TJ and I saw those and I was like, "Dude, what are those?" And then ever since then, you know, I left Justin's house and called TJ that Monday and I was like, "Hey, dude. Uh, put me on the list for when you have some more of this stuff out. I need it." So, um,

yeah, got that stuff rolling.

I think I saw, you know, I've said this story so many times, but first one I saw was already an adults and TJ was there at Troy Schroeder's booth and I saw that [ __ ] from across the room. It just didn't look real. Like, it looked like a fake snake. like it it was just so [ __ ] just crispy clean and just I was like dude this is amazing. I want everything to do with it. But then also like you know it's not a half step in type of project. You're either going to do it or you're not going to do it. And so and during that time now I was like I can't I'm way too deep for my pockets you know and so

um but dude to this day man [ __ ] what a what a project to be in. That's that has so much legs on it. It's ridiculous. Yeah, I like that stuff a lot. And I just um I got a couple of supers that I hatched out um a couple of weeks ago. Well, a couple months ago now. They're they're eating pretty good. So,

and were those pretty easy to spot? Like because I know we talked about hypo having to be a must in the mandarin game, but can you easily tell the difference between a super mandarin and a mandarin with what you're making?

Yeah. So, I did a hypo mander into a clown head hypo. When they hatched, I knew that's what they were. And then when they shed the second time, I was like, "Okay, that's definitely what those are." And then a couple of like I want to say a week after that, the Superman hypo uh clutch hatch and it was like, "Okay, yeah, these are supers." cuz they look way different than the ones that hatched a couple weeks ago.

So much orange, I'm assuming, or what do you what do you notice difference-wise?

It's like like the man the manor hypos like they're orange.

Yeah. Until you see a Superman or hypo. He's like, "No, that's orange." You get what I mean? Like I don't even really know how to explain it. It's like the the Superman hypos are so orange. is crazy.

Yeah. And again, that's kind of giving props to Hypo what it could do to something orange, you know? Um, take it to a whole level. It's It's pretty nuts.

Yeah. I think uh Yeah, Hypo loves color. Um whereas DG thrives off of a contrast. That makes sense. That's why they complement each other so well.

Okay. So, real quick, to go back to the snake that I hit earlier this year that I thought had hypo. You're telling me if I did have hypo in that I wouldn't have been disappointed? I don't think so. I wouldn't be disappointed with a hypo super uh gravel clown or a pavement hypo clown.

Yeah. Because I know what I'm going to do with it. I know that's not where it ends for that. If that makes sense. Like cuz my goal

I don't think your goal should be a hypo super gravel clown. Your goal should be like a super O D hypo super gravel clown, right?

Okay. Because it's like You know, we were talking earlier how like, you know, or I think Amelia was talking about how like you should just learn to just keep your mouth shut sometimes when you think you hit something like just just wait for it to come out, right? But I'mma [ __ ] go ahead and open my big mouth. Go. So, check it out. My last clutch of the year. I think it's the last clutch of the year.

But let me tell the pairing right now. So, same male. My s my uh my OD super gravel 100% het clown. Um paired to my gravel OD 100% heck clown. I think I think I hit a super OD gravel clown. I think

I want to see that.

I know. I But listen, I think I cut early again. So, I ain't I ain't showing [ __ ]

Yeah. Yeah. No, I get that, dude. Yeah. Let

I cut on my It was my son's call, bro. It was [ __ ] It was executive decision. He said cut. So, I said, "All right, I'll cut."

I saw that. He said cut.

He said cut, bro. And so, and so I cut on day 51. Um and yeah, I was like, "Holy [ __ ] shit." and it just looks different. And there's some other super gravels that I hit. Um, not clown unfortunately, but they're those look pretty sick. Like like more than like OD's possibly in the mix. I don't know. I'll find out once they out the egg and I'll you'll definitely be one of the first ones to see it.

OD super the OD the OD super gravel stuff looks crazy. I know that uh Ryan Elrich at over at Aesthetic Selection Reptiles. I know he hatched some of that stuff uh earlier this year and it it looked pretty crazy. Okay. So, I'm glad you brought him up, man. Shout out to Ryan. Hope you're doing well. I feel like he's been low-key for a minute, right? He's also like not been as active as he normally was at one point.

Should probably hit him up. But anyways, um he also worked with something that's a Leic to Gravel, I think, or something like that. Or and it's Spark, right? Was that Spark?

Yeah, he's got he's he's got them all, bro.

But if it's in that complex, he's got it.

Okay. Remind me about what Spark Spark is another version of Yellow Belly. Is that what that is? Or or what what was that again? What was I forgot what spark was

mix?

Yeah, I think spark is just like another gene in that complex. Um

in the yellow belly complex.

It's the one that we we've used the least, right?

Yes.

Yeah. He just hatched some he just posted it, I think. Uh he just had some Puma puzzles.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, he just had some Puma puzzles. So, yeah, he's uh Yeah, he he works all that stuff, man. Can you see the pattern?

You can see it.

I think that once they shed out, they'll color up.

Okay. Right now, they're a little uh the pattern's a little faded on them.

Is are these one of them or has he posted any?

Yeah, that's one of them right there.

This one right here?

No. Next one.

This one right here?

Yeah. No, that's a clown before it.

Yeah, right. Yeah, that one.

Oh, yeah. Okay. It's hard to tell.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But I think that it's pretty.

Yeah. There it is. That's it, right?

Yeah. Yeah. That might that pattern might start. It might color up like you said. That's pretty cool.

Yeah. I hope so.

Yeah. It's cool looking.

Yeah. Just But like I said, you look at that and you're like some people may look at it and say, "Oh, that's a little too faded." Or some people may look at it like, "Oh, that's I look at it and I go, that's got a potential."

You know what I mean? It's just with pumas when they fully grow up.

Yeah. It kind of vanishes a little bit. That's the only thing.

Yeah, that's really cool.

But, you know, I think Puzzle's one of those good aging genes. I feel like it could have potential of this stuff coming in even more like like I think the third or fourth shed. I definitely want to look at this snake, you know, especially once they start eating too. You know, I also I also noticed too um

color up a lot after

Yeah, they they color especially if they're not as developed in the egg as their clutch mates, you know, because I feel like, you know, kind of going back to where you might cut early, some of them might not fully leave the egg as developed as the others. and they're okay, they're fine, but they just might need that first or second or third shed to kind of really start coming into full [ __ ] like, all right, this is what's cracking with what's going on with me, you know?

Right. Yo, so Dorian, uh, going back to I I didn't get into the Mandarin talk. Uh, you work you work Trojan as well.

Yep.

Bro, what do you think a super Mandarin Trojan hypo clown would look like? Dude, I've been asking myself that for uh for a good bit of time. Like ever like I don't know, man. I think it's gonna I think it's gonna look good. I don't see why it wouldn't.

Yeah, I like I like what Trojan's doing, bro.

Yeah, Trojan. Uh, I think that's another one of those genes where it's like it was it was hot when it like people started like actually like doing stuff like when Justin made like the hypo DG Trojan stuff like I think that's where it peaked and then like right now I don't feel like a lot of people are talking about it but I think that Trojan I think that Trojan is good. I got I got two animals in the project one being a male. So, we'll pair it to some stuff and, you know, we'll we'll work it. I think uh Trojan's got I think Trojan's got potential, too. That's one of my favorite uh code dominance because I'm I'm a just a big fan of I'm a big fan of codeons that have supers that look good that you don't mind having that gene in every single combo.

You know what I mean? Like if a super Trojan looks good and I compare it to other animals and like it's like, "Oh, I don't want that because it's got Trojan in it." Well, why not? It doesn't make a white snake. So, I don't see the reason why the super looks good. So,

yeah. Let's go. Let's go even further. Super Mandarin. Super Trojan Hypoc.

Keep going. Supermandering. Super Trojan Hypo DG clown.

Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? That stuff's going to look crazy. You know, also that was that stuck out in my head only because, you know, you can't put this on the [ __ ] back on the back. Oh, there he is. I was like I was like, we're talking Trojan. Is he gonna pop in? Hey, sure enough, there he is. The man. That's the Trojan right there. That is Trojan. His name's Trojan.

Yeah, I call him the Trojan man. [Laughter]

Yeah. Shout out to a man. That's I love Jason, man. What a good guy. Um,

that's my No, but dude, uh, what about a super gravel or pavement clown? True ghost.

I mean, yeah, it'll look good, you know. It's going to be

pattern stick. Do you think the pattern would stick?

Yeah, it's g it's gonna be Yeah, the pattern is definitely going to stick. It's just going to be gray, you know, and then it's like after that, then what do you do?

I mean, that's what that's the thing with Exantic. Once you make that final combo, it's that's that's it. You don't

Yeah. Especially with like especially with like something with like a super gravel where it's like you're not really going to see like any of the effects that the color changing morphs will do. All you could do is like change the pattern. So you start doing like super her super hurricane, super gravel, true ghost, that stuff. And then it's like

what say? No. me. Everything exanthic has to have DG also. So yeah, gotta add DG.

Yeah, DGX that the DGATIC stuff, I like it a lot. I don't have any of it. It's it's really pretty and it's just like, man, I I want some of it, but it's like like the lane that my stuff's in. I'm just like, I don't know, you know. Al Amelio, is any of that stuff that the DG exantic stuff that you're making going to be going into Pi or No.

Um, not. It's not important to me. Eventually, I'll make some, but that it's not super important. The stuff that I'm doing with the DGAT clown is going to have fire. It's going to have hypo um eventually leopard acid. Um, with clown. Um, yeah, that's that's my next generation of stuff. Eventually Monsoon, but yeah, that's long term, you know.

Is P even in that group of like future projects for you, or is that just kind of chilling where it's at, making what you need for vending [ __ ] Where's all for you now?

I focused on the sunset stuff with Pi to to give the the animals longevity. uh with me. Um but no, the the the other the DJ Exantic stuff. Um not really going Pied really. Um just not not right now.

Do you have any Pi stuff, Dorian? You have any Pi stuff or No.

Um I have Actually That's funny you ask that. That's the one last clutch I'm waiting on uh for this season. I'm finally going to get some clown pads, I think.

Oh, cool. Those are cool. But that's the that's really the only pad that I have in my collection, like visual pad. I only have one. So, um we'll see how I feel when the babies hatch if I'm going to keep going or not.

I I love them. It's just uh for for again for uh I'd rather go maybe True Ghost Pi, you know, instead of DG Pi. Um and then see where I go from there. But it's not super important on that. on that on that side of the game.

On this side of the game, it's super important, you know, getting people in and and getting people in the door and building, you know, another base of customers for the future from, you know, for myself and the market, you know. So,

yeah.

Yeah, I agree with that. I just wish there was more control of of what we can do to create like pides with certain markings and certain like you know because it's all [ __ ] kind of up in the air really like when it comes to high whites the mids and the lows and all that [ __ ]

Yeah. And it sucks because I've always talked about this like let's say you're trying to make a DG pi exantic whatever the [ __ ] like a high-end pied snake and let's let's say you hit a few of them that are just like there's a dot on one head and you're like let me get tested and it's all it's all there. I mean you can just hold it back that's fine but it's kind of like you're going to hit a few of those like that where it's like people don't give two shits what's in that snake. It's all white basically.

Let me say this though. It's always exciting to hatch fight bites because you don't know what the hell you're gonna get.

True. I mean, you just you might get some crazy ass markings, you might get none. Um I mean, it's it's super exciting. So, I mean, the excitement with those animals never goes away. And it's just it's uh it's it's that animal to most people, you know. So,

yeah. Um, so, you have DG obviously in the mix that you were saying. So, what is DG doing for you right now? Um, Dorian,

um, getting ready to get bread. So, I got, uh, the one clutch that that just broke my heart that she she reabsorbed on me, bro. Hypo mandarin or hypo DG.

I was looking forward to that clutch so much and she decided she wasn't ready to go yet. So, it's fine.

How high How big Foggles get?

Oh, she got up to like 25, 27, dude.

Damn. And I thought she was good. Put one more lock on her. Good to go. Went to go ultrasound her a couple of weeks later. I was like, "Are these these look like they shrink? They're shrinking." So when I see that, the next week I offer a meal and she took it. And then as soon as she took it, I just fell to my knees like, "No, she's not going."

Was she Was she off food at that time and then she got back on?

She Yeah, she had went off food and then she went back home. Once they go off and they go back on food, that's when I know it's like, yeah, it's a wrap. She like, okay, I'll have animals that sometimes like I have a I have a female that she will eat around like 30 millimeters still, but after that, she's not eating anymore. Like she'll eat like one more like good rat and then she's not eating anymore. But like for the most part, if I if I know something's gonna reabsorb, it's just like they'll eat the one rat and they're like, "Okay, she ate last week. I'll offer her again this week." And once they take that second one, it's like, "Yeah, it's over."

Yeah. It's over. She's not going.

I got played by my blackhead clown. Remember my blackhead clown girl, Emilia, that thought that was Gravid? And you're like, "She's probably not Gravid, dude." And but like Yeah. She was doing all the weird things, dude. And and I I could have sworn that's why I was tripping because I could have sworn I witnessed an ovulation. Um but you know she went off food. She was all belly up for like over a month like acting all graphic. I'm just like oh I don't know. I don't know what's going on with this chick. And then she shed again and then she ate and I was like what the [ __ ] And so

yeah man it's I don't know. But also, it's kind of like, you know, it's just like it's it's it's cool like when it when they do do lay clutch, you know, that's why I don't mind not ultrasounding because it's like it goes if it goes and if it does, you know, then [ __ ] cool. Either way, it's like it's kind of hoping you get what you want for Christmas and and and then if it shows up, there you go. You know, if not, then there's always next year. Maybe you should not mean

that's why that's why everyone screams about numbers, bro.

Yeah. It sucks. But you you know sometimes one girl could like make or break you and then you're like damn I wish I had two more.

Yeah, that's like I wish I had two of them. Um but the crazy thing about that what you were saying about the ultrasound MJ is on the other flip side of that the pad girl that I got getting ready to go. I uh I was going through, you know, doing my checks, cleaning, spot cleaning or whatever, and um I get to her tub, to the pad girl's tub, and I'm like, she's like cooled up like she's nested. She's got everything, but like I had already written her off. I had literally gone in clutch and deleted the pairing out of it because I thought she was done because she just wasn't growing. I stopped pairing her, all of that. And then like she was cooled up. Like I literally only got one lock on her. Um she wouldn't lock anymore. So I was like, "Yeah, she's not going." I open up the tub one day and she's just sitting there. It looks like she's nesting. I'm like, "Oh, maybe she just wanted to get closer to the heat." Few days later, she's in the same spot. I was like, "Let me put the ultrasound on it." Dude, that ultrasound and the whole screen is just eggs. Get to the So, so she's going um but it's like, you know, that's the other side of it, too, where they go when they want to go, dude. We're on their time.

Yeah. as fast as they want to go, too.

Yep. They'll take their sweet time.

Yeah. Let's talk about your collection size of as of now. How big um is everything at this point?

Like you mean like how many animals do I have?

Yeah. Well, just overall like the pairings like overall like your you know what's your at this point? How many clutches are you shooting for a year? How many can you make if you wanted?

So, this year I'm doing eight, which I don't think is a bad number for coming off of a year off. Um, next year I'll probably try to double it. So, we try to go from eight to like 16. If I wanted to, if I wanted 20 clutches, I could get 20 clutches. You know, if I wanted 30, I could probably get 30. Um, I don't want that yet. I'm pacing myself. I don't want 30. I think that I can I think that I can handle double what I got going now. I have the space for it. Um but anything over that then we got to start talking about relocation.

Remind me what part of the country and you're in Illinois, right? You're not far from Chinley.

No, I am far from Tiny. I'm 13 hours away. Yeah, I'm uh

Yeah, I'm in North Carolina, dude.

Oh, damn. That's right. You're Yeah, because you're not far from Brian Susan,

bro. Nope, I'm not.

That's right. Okay, now I remember. Go ahead, Emilio.

Bro, why the hell did I think that you were in Canada?

Canada.

Yeah, probably. I remember MJ, I don't know if you remember this. The first trap talk that you saw my name in the chat as uh the Royal Clutch. You asked straight up like the Royal Clutch like is that dude Canadian? like,

"Oh, I did."

I thought you did, bro.

Yeah, No. Um, that's Will. Will's Canadian for sure.

No, I know. I know Will, but for some reason, I thought you Canada, bro. What the hell?

Yeah, I think it I think it's the royal in the name. I don't know. It might be.

The only black dude we got from Canada is Jaffy. Bro, what are you talking about?

Yeah, that's right. The only one I know of. Yeah, because now now listening you you have the the Carolina accent, bro.

Yeah, man. Born and raised.

Yeah. What the hell?

Yep.

So, but that's that would be uh the max you would say you would want to hit at at whatever point you're ready. 30 clutches you feel like would be that that that peak you feel like?

Yeah. I don't want to. I think that 30 while like still having a full-time job is probably the max.

I start Yeah. If I Yeah. if I start wanting to go uh more above that, we'd have to start looking at some some P&L and see uh if it's worth going fulltime because that means hitting the road and doing some shows and yeah, you know, being a whole lot more active on social media, getting the YouTube up and running, which I keep meaning to do. It's not that I don't want to do it, it's just like, bro, I my main challenge with the content is like what do I talk about, you know? So, um, but we're we're working on it. Um, the plan is to have a YouTube video here soon. When I first started hatching clutches here, I'm like, "Oh man, I'm going to do a YouTube video for every single clutch." And then it's like now like some of this stuff is like, "Ah, it's getting a little too big for like now it's getting like to the update point." So, I don't I don't know what I want to do on the content side, but I do know I want to start the YouTube and that should be coming up soon. So,

well, best way to do it is to do it. Yeah, just to do it. That's what I keep telling myself. I gotta Yeah.

I got to get out of my own way sometimes. Like, you know how sometimes it could be like and it could just be my OCD where I like I I want it to be this certain way and I wanted to be I can't do that. I know that that's where YouTube gets really difficult because you get on a good roll of making videos how you want to make them and then you kind of have creator block in a sense or you just don't like how they're coming out. And the thing is, you kind of get the more you keep putting out, the more you get better. And it's just like anything else. The more you work at it, you do find ways to make your editings better here and there, but it's like it's like the gym, dude. Like, what's the point of going to the gym if you're just not going to go in [ __ ] two weeks? Like, you're just going to stop. Like, you can't can't stop. Like, that's and that's why I commend you not starting it because I think you know that. I think you know once you start rolling it out, there ain't no turning back after that. Like, that's person you are. Like, you're going to [ __ ] do it if you're going to do it. And that's what YouTube is. It's not like, you know, let me try it out and No, dude. You're you're doing it for yourself and you're gonna not [ __ ] stop doing it if that's what you want to do. That's the way YouTube works,

right? Yeah. And that's the thing. It's like, okay, like in my mind, I'm like, all right, I'm going to make a video about this clutch. Okay, and then I'm going to make a video about the next clutch. But it's like can't just keep doing clutch videos if you're only doing eight clutches a year, right? So, it's like outside of that, what else are you gonna do? You gotta figure out like to me you gotta figure out how to come up with 52 YouTube videos a year. You know what I'm saying? Like

yeah, that's a video a week.

There's ways, bro. I mean there's there's pairing videos, there's temperature videos. There's like where you set your babies up videos. Like you could get more detail. The thing is it gets real nichy and like man it gives you a headache after a while because you're like god damn you you want to know who kills it when it comes stuff like that is Antoine from DPR Cold Blood, dude. like he he puts out like a lot of like just simple easy videos of like it's interesting stuff to know like the ASFs like a bunch of [ __ ] but it's work. It's and it's not easy cuz it takes time. It takes a lot of your time out of your day. It's a whole another like chore. Like it's not as bad as doing your own rats. Nothing's as bad as that. But I'm just saying like, you know, it is something where like, dude, want to know another one that's a pain in the ass and that that I definitely am lazy when it comes to this and I wish I wasn't, especially with all the condos I produced is like taking good pictures, like taking like shout out to Brandon Nixon. Nixon Reptiles is in the building, you know? Like, dude, that [ __ ] skills when it comes to taking picture is like I want to learn that. And I know that's not something that happens overnight. I guess if you're a freak of nature, you can study it, but I'm just saying like you're gonna have to practice a lot on your camera to figure out the settings, the right location of where you want these pictures and and yeah, it's just so many things that we have to master a part of what we're doing to really kind of say we're doing everything we can to [ __ ] make this snake get noticed or whatever, bro. Like there's a lot we could do out there. It's not easy.

Yeah. Yeah. And you know that's where I commend my wife because it's like you know the black and white background for the snakes like that was her idea like you know she is a photographer so it's just like okay she takes the pictures of the snakes you know what I mean but it's like

you know I I'm I'm good at you know going outside and getting a picture of it in front of a bush in my hand but it's like

Yeah. Yeah. But like, yeah, if we just like when we get to hooking up flashes and putting a snake. Yeah. It's just like, yeah, I'll let her handle all that. Like sometimes I'm like, can you show me how to do it? And then other times I'm like, you know what? You You got it.

No need for me to learn how to do it if you already got it.

I did all that a long time ago, bro.

Yeah, I'm good.

Yeah. I mean, much love to those that do it. I I love it. I love to see it. is just is not for me. Just

just not for me.

That's why I get the new year.

Yeah. The thing Yeah. But the thing about the the thing about the pictures on the on the background is just like then you just got so many different options on what you can do with that stuff because like after she takes the pictures and they get uploaded and I could see them, I'm like I'll just be sitting on my phone just scrolling through the pictures just looking at them because the pictures just look so good, you know?

Yeah. So, and that's where you getting the hang up where it's like, all right, I want to post some stuff to my Instagram, but like I kind of wanted to be cohesive. So, it's like I got three, four clutches of animals that haven't seen Instagram yet because I have not gotten around to taking the pictures yet. So,

yeah. But that's neither here nor there.

Um, when it comes to feeding your collection, I can't remember. Do you breed your own rats or No,

I don't. I'm blessed. Um, my rotor supplier is 15 minutes away from me.

Damn. So, um, yeah. So, it's like, you know,

how how long have you had that plug for?

Um, about four or five years.

So, about the amount of time. So, it actually worked out perfect. Um, when I first got in, like, you know, it was just going through trials with rodent suppliers. Like I remember I went dude I've seen some stuff. Like I I went to this one lady's house. Dude, I went to this one lady's house to go pick up some frozen thaw rats when I was feeding frozen thaw. And when I pulled into the her driveway of her house, like as soon as you got out of the car,

you smell it.

You just smell it. And I'm like, dude, I don't know how you live in there. Like she opened the door and it

was just like, "And I was like, 'Dude, I'm never buying rats. I'm never buying rats from you again.'" Because it was like, what she looked like. Does she have warts and [ __ ]? Like, what? I'm just curious.

Yeah. It was just like, I I don't remember what she looks like because I saw her one time. Yeah. I saw her one time.

Yeah. Yeah. I I grabbed the frozen rats and I went on about my way. I went to I went I drove like an hour to go get rats one time and I get there and when I pull up, this dude had like his rats like in a like it was like an extra room that was like built onto the side of the house like off his kitchen, bro. And I walk in, dude literally has a a rat by the tail. He just bangs his head on the counter in his kitchen, bro. I was like, "Yo, that's nasty. What the fuck?"

Yeah. And I um so that was the last time I bought rats from him.

I went to another guy that was probably about an hour and a half away and I get there and his stuff was set up like a uh like a chicken farm. Like it was outside. It was just rows and rows like he just like mass producing rats.

But it was like, like like in tubs or what? What do you have them in?

Yeah, they were. Yeah, they were in tubs. Like they were in like homemade and then some of them he had like in Freedom Breeders, some he had an ARS. But like, dude, when I tell you this is like an operation like when you see like a hen house and it's out in the middle of a field and it's just long, you know, like but it was just all rats.

Wow.

It's just outside. This dude had the most aggressive rats that I've ever seen ever. Like pulling them out, helicopter and turning around trying to bite him. And I'm like, hell no. You know why? Because they're outside. They're wild. They're dude, that's what that's what keeping an animal outside does to it. You know, rats are smart. Like they're very smart. And they know they would know sure enough if they're outside and if they're vulnerable to being like eaten from [ __ ] outside, they're going to be on [ __ ] edge, man. And there's nothing worse. Like I'm pretty good about my rats not being mean. Um, but I'll tell you what right now I was gonna I was gonna say like I had a I had a thought of a [ __ ] story. Like think of like a dramatic or like an intense action-packed story and the the the plot is this like a a rat. Like think if they did like a story where a rat could talk but like to themselves, right? And it all starts with a rat getting loose um and finding like an like a fellow like family member that got loose and then their whole idea is to try to release the others and like and so and then there's like I don't know clips of like like the owner coming in to cleaning and then seeing them and like trying to kill them and they're running through everything and it's like so imagine like intense dramatic music during all this [ __ ] bro. And at the very end they get caught and they die. That'd be sick. Anyways, like sounds like a

Wouldn't watch that one. Apparently, he's not interested. He's [ __ ].

No. Um, I was gonna ask him, how did the rats look? Were they different colors? Were there some gray ones? Were there

Yeah, there were some gray ones, there were some brown ones, and some white ones.

Like, what I what I've noticed is my rat guy has all lab white rats.

Mhm. I've never ever had an aggressive rat in 15 years.

And then they are.

So after Yeah. After like that that last trip that I was just talking about, that was the last time I went there. And then I met um this lady that was local and she was like very like attached to her rats and like took very good care of them. You know what I'm saying? Like these were pet quality rats, but her husband bred reptiles and she just loved the rats. So, she was like breeding the rats. I'm like, "Okay, this is what I've been looking for, right?" So, I was buying rats from her consistently while the collection was still small, but I think that like as the collection got bigger, she just couldn't fill the orders and she was going more to like uh she was going more towards like frozen thaws. So, she put me on to the rat to my rat supplier um that I have now. Um, and me and him have just uh we have a good relationship. We click. I remember, you know, when, you know, because the way I got put on to him is, you know, the other lady was going out of town and at one time she had like a flood, so she had to like get restarted back up. So, he was kind of like the substitute roer supplier at the time. And then he asked me, you know, what he needed to do to be able for me to make him my full-time supplier. You make the necessary changes and then ever since then we've been good. It's a good relationship. He take care of me. So,

Yo, good.

Yeah. Crucial.

That other dude might have had some wild blood in his rats.

Probably. Probably has some wild rats breeding.

Yeah, bro. Some wild blood.

Crazy. That's all it takes, bro. That's all it takes.

Yeah. But it's just like you all just got to you just got to have uh situational awareness. It's like Yeah. I don't think Yeah. I don't think this is I don't think this is what I where I want to get these from.

So

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, man. Um, so you feed nothing but rats. You don't do mice or anything for the babies or what?

I start them off on I start them off on mice.

Okay. And uh but you your goal is to quickly get them on rats as soon as possible, right?

As soon as possible. If they like on the first offering like obviously if they take them, you know, I'll give them one more week on the mice because I start like noticing that like once they realize what food is, they start like popping them immediately.

Stop.

Once I start hearing like, you know, soon as I throw it in there, I just hear that thump. I'm like, "Okay, you're ready to eat rats." You know?

Um, the ones that are kind of like a little laggy, yeah, like they take a little bit longer to eat and I'm like, "All right, I might wait a little bit longer." So, it's like two, three, two, three mice and then we get them switched over to rats and then I don't have any issues after that.

And your adult females, like especially ones that are getting ready for breeding, like you don't change anything with their feeding all year round. Is it once a week? All right. And you stick to that no matter what.

Yeah, it's once a week, but I might go up on the size.

Right. Um, once I'm getting ready for I typically

Small to mediums or mediums to large?

No. So I typically every week I feed smalls and then once it starts getting closer to like breeding time and the girls like start getting like big, I I'll go to like a small medium, but I I rarely go to like a full size medium unless it's to like one of my 4,000 gram girls and yeah, big ones. So,

I had a I had a a ex-breeder male pass away, rat, and I'm like, I don't I was like, I don't [ __ ] keep anything that can eat this [ __ ] no more. Like, this thing's [ __ ] huge. And then a light bulb. I was like, oh, you got your bolted pi. I got this pi mediocine. It's like it's like 6,000 grams. It's [ __ ] humongous. And I feel bad because I've been feeding it small rats. And I'm like, dude, this is doing nothing to you.

That's a snack.

Dude. Yeah. I fed her that [ __ ] thing, dude. And I'm like, dude, it's been a month and she's still good. I'm just like, I'm not going to feed you for a minute, man. But at least I'm glad I have one garbage disposal snake when I need it. But I used to have a lot at one point, but those days are gone. So,

Have you um have you guys seen that huge pad at Justin's?

Like

Um, I I think I think I'm I I mean, I think all Justin's pies are huge, to be honest. Every pad I

He's got he's got one that's like is huge, bro. Like massive. It's like That doesn't even look like a ball python. Like the head on that thing is like

Yeah. This one I have. This one I have doesn't look like a ball. It looks like a boa. It looks like it could be a pi boa. Like it's [ __ ] humongous.

Yeah. He's got a he's got a section of animals that you could tell that they're taking big big meals.

Yeah. We're talking medium to largest for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And they're doing like 15, 16 clutches.

Yeah. Which is crazy.

Yeah. Imagine that where you're like trying to keep your like clutch count down. You're like

Yeah. You're like, "Oh, I average, you know, about this amount of eggs of clutch, so I'll probably try to do this many clutches." And then one of your girls pops out like 18 eggs.

If it's a condro, yeah, I'll take it. But not for pythons. No, thank you. That's too much.

Um, so okay. As of right now, you're gonna hit about eight clutches this year, you said, right?

Yep. Eight on the nose. I got one more clutch and I'm done.

Most of that stuff, I'm assuming it's for holdbacks or letting a lot of that go. What's your Since it's been a year? How do you feel about getting back out there and putting some of your stuff for sale if you don't need it?

Yeah, I'll definitely have some stuff for sale, but it was more like uh I need to see what I get from these other clutches to determine what I'm keeping and what I'm letting go. So, now that a majority of them have hatched, I got a pretty good idea what I'm keeping. So, um, yeah, I I'll be listing some stuff here soon.

And Morph Market is where you list everything typically.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But you also said if you ever got to the point of production um you would have to look at vending and and you're cool with that if you ever came down to that.

Yeah, for sure.

And you're talking like Tinley's and stuff maybe or what would you do? What would you what what shows would you hit up if you had the if you had the stuff to display?

I mean, if I could get into them, you know? Um, I'd probably try to stick to like, like if I could get into Tinley, obviously I'd do Tinley if I could. The the Seer show. Uh, the one in Atlanta, Bob show in Atlanta.

Yeah.

I think that's I think that that's a show right up your alley, to be honest.

Yeah, for sure. Um, I've vended some shows with uh with Brett Brent and Gabby Morphagy. I've been to some shows with them in uh in Atlanta just selling their gecko stuff.

Yeah. Shout out to them, man.

Yeah.

Yeah. Atlanta. Um, Atlanta is always a good time.

Did you go to their show? Their the the Forana? Did you have Did you attend that?

No, cuz so the only reason why I didn't attend it is because my wife co-hosts that show with Gabby. Um, so I stay home with my daughter. She goes.

Your wife gets go. Oh, damn.

Yeah, that's cool.

Yeah, that's I feel I feel like that's a fair trade-off. She She goes there. I go to Tinley.

Yeah, there you go. Hey, okay. I got to ask you, how do you feel about Tinley being so like nearly impossible to get in if you're a ball python breeder now? It's no joke.

It is what it is. I guess you gotta get in where you can fit in. I guess.

I wonder I wonder what that list is like now.

That's actually a very good point. Like that list can only be for so long now.

I can hit him up right now.

I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you guys this. Like me, I haven't even got on the list.

I'll be right back, guys. Hold on. Uh uh eventually when I have more species, I'll get on the list, but right now I'm not even interested, bro. It must be that thing. That list must be I don't know, guessing 50 or 60 deep, maybe more.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. But you know, some people are falling off, so you never know.

You never know.

Yeah. But yeah, that's on the bucket list, bro. I definitely want to do that one day.

I do like going to Tinley and hanging out though. Like just going and being there is cool.

Yeah. Yeah. I like it a lot.

Get to see all my boys from all over the place. That's another thing about the hobby. That's why I don't understand like it's just like why don't we just why can't we all just get along? It's just like we all have common interest in these animals. You know what I'm saying? And I got friends that live in California, friends in Canada, friends in LA, friends in Florida. It is just like, man, it's just like we all have common interests. We should just all that this just in general with the country in general. Just like we all have a common interest. This just

Yeah. I mean, I wish alone, but that's never going to happen.

I mean, I wish no ill will to anyone. I wish everyone the best. It's just there's some people that I just don't want to mess with. Being real with you 100%. I wish them the best. I just don't want them around me.

Yeah. It's like

Granted that list is very short.

Yeah. You know.

It's like granted you're going to run into some people that you just don't mesh with, but it's like at the same time you don't

Just move around them.

Have to like Yeah. You don't Yeah.

Like you don't have to down talk. You don't have to down talk somebody or you know, or badmouth somebody just you don't like something that he says. Like who cares? Like move on. Yeah.

It's fine. Y'all don't have to be best friends, but you also don't have to be enemies. It's weird.

100%. Man.

Yeah. But you know what's crazy is like being enemies with some some of these people without enemies. They're not they don't have anything else in this hobby. And what I mean by that, they're not producing [ __ ]. They're not breeding [ __ ]. They have anything they don't have anything relevant other than drama to bring to the table. Like it's always wrapped around what other people are doing versus like how we've been talking this whole time about what you're doing. You know what I'm saying? Like

Yeah.

This whole podcast um hasn't wrapped it doesn't have anything to do with drama because you are legit [ __ ] doing it. Like you're you're doing what we're here for and that's [ __ ] to keep and breed awesome [ __ ] snakes. You know what I'm saying? And that's what it's about and that's what's and and like like Amelio says like dude, if you have nothing that's relevant to what I just said,

No offense, but I'm not here to [ __ ] make friends. Like I'm I didn't join a Boys and Girls Club uh just overall as humans. No, I I'm I'm in a snake club, dude. Like I'm in a reptile club and I want to hang out with other people who breed reptiles like myself so we could talk and we could go back and forth. I don't want to hear about [ __ ] a story you had in 1998, dude. And and and you can't you have nothing to back up anything that comes out of your mouth. And what's crazy is it's so easy to start a podcast and just spew [ __ ] out of your mouth and portray something that you're not. And that's what's unfortunate with the era of this hobby right now. There's a lot of [ __ ] a lot of fools faking it out there, which we all know. But guess what? Those fools are getting pressed and it's starting to raise to the surface of who's who and what's what. At the end of the day, if you're not here to show what your work with the animals is, how far do you feel like you're going to go in this?

Right. Yeah. No, I'm with you there. It's just like, you know,

Like even with the but I was going to say even with the podcast thing, it's like

When you're saying when you're saying that it's like if you want to if you want to be a podcaster and not breed animals, that's fine, too, right?

Totally fine.

But it's just like, you know, like you're like you're saying, it's just like I just feel like, you know, you don't have to fake it till you make it type deal. Like if if you're not if you're not doing it, don't act like you're doing it. Like I'm not.

So, you know, if you want to be a podcaster, be a podcaster. If you want to be a snake breeder, be a snake breeder. If you want to be both, be both. Like, you can do that.

Yeah. Do whatever you want.

But but but as as people, we have our choices in life of who we want to be around and who we don't want to be around. And I am very transparent who I'm trying to [ __ ] with in this hobby. And if you are,

You know what I'm saying? And that's it.

Take take it how you [ __ ] want it, bro. But right.

I'm here to make this fun and keep it fun. That's it.

For me.

And and then it's funny how people could do these these these uh these rants where they just attack what's putting food on their table.

What's wild to me, bro? Like, why why are the bigger breeders kind of getting looked at as like they're doing something bad in this hobby? Um, like, you know, and I get it. Like, you, it's the individual's fault if you came into this thinking you're going to be a millionaire. That's not the big breeders' fault. That's your fault, okay? No matter what. But I can't tell you how many [ __ ] goddamn these breeders have changed so many people's lives. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not saying, oh, they were able to quit their job, but I'm saying they're here now and they're having a good time. Um, I I don't understand why it's being looked upon as a bad thing to be a ball python breeder right now.

Yeah. You were promised to make, if you learn, right? If you learn how to do it and and and have vision, you were promised to make sick ass animals and you're

And that's it.

You're going to do that. Now, value of those animals,

We don't know it's going to be down the road.

Nobody knows.

But if you do it right, you'll be fine. It won't matter. But those that didn't do well doing it [ __ ] hate it. Even though it gives them something to work on and and a platform and h it's [ __ ] crazy.

Yeah. When you put it like that, it's actually a really wild concept, but it is what it is. Like

Yeah. Whatever.

I mean, at the end of the day, right? You're right. Um, and again, like

I just want everybody to get along, man. That's all.

Yeah. But, you know, listen, I mean I mean that that in general, like you said, the world, everyone should get along a lot more. Um, but with human nature, especially in this hobby, bro, that's just not the case, bro. You know why? Because jealousy is a [ __ ]. No matter how you look at it, once somebody feels like you're doing something that they can't, which which if you're if you are growing in this hobby, you're going to make a lot of people feel that way, unfortunately. But some people could take it like a [ __ ] man or like a lady and just not let it get into their feelings and be happy for that person. But there's people who aren't happy for that person who are growing into the hobby. And that's always going to be the case, dude. You're going to have some sour [ __ ] who thought they were going to do something in this game just automatically just not have the gas for it no more. And as they are going down as far as not what they thought they were going to do with the projects no more, their co their peers or whoever else is [ __ ] skyrocketing through the roof and they're still doing it. And that could just make somebody feel some type of way. Especially an ego trip a [ __ ] who has hundreds of thousand dollars into it and they thought they were going to be that guy and they're not. They can't sell anything. Sucks. I'm just saying.

Yeah. I mean, I And like don't get me wrong, like I do like under like I understand it to an extent like why somebody would, you know, you put that kind of money into it and you're not getting the return that you thought you thought. Emphasis on you thought you're not getting the return that you thought that you were going to get. I could understand like why you would be a little disappointed, but like be cool. Just be cool, you know? That's the Just be cool. Relax. It's going to be okay.

100%. Yeah.

It's going to be all right.

Feeling sorry for you.

It's going to be all right.

Feeling sorry for yourself ain't going to get you out of that position.

Yeah. No, just figure out uh what the next move is.

Be cool.

But that's the constant thing in this hobby, in this ball python game, is you got to figure out what that next move's going to be. Even when things are working in your favor, you never stop thinking about that next move because that next move really matters. It's important.

Yeah. I'll literally hatch I'll literally hatch something crazy and be like, "All right, well, what am I going to do?" Like, the thing had just took its first breath and I'm like, "All right, what am I going to do with this?"

Already on to the next. Yes, bro. It's nuts. And what's crazy is like, how many snakes have Justin, Azie, Brock, uh, Miguel, Mark Bailey have made and put out there and people don't talk about it after one week. Like it's it only gets so much steam no matter how sick it is and then it just [ __ ] somebody else made something else and we don't talk about that snake no more. We're on to some other snake that just got made. Dude, that's the [ __ ] the revolving vicious cycle of this game is like, dude, that was cool what you made, but that was eight days ago, bro. Like, no offense. [ __ ]

The crazy thing about

You know.

The crazy thing about what you just said when I first uh heard about lace, it was from some like some podcast Justin did like a while back and it was like, "Oh, you know, how like the typical like, you know, podcast question is, oh, you know, what gene are you, what what gene are or do you think that people are sleeping on, especially something that Jessica gets asked a lot like, what what gene do you think next?" He's like, "Oh, you know, I'm working with I'm working with some lace stuff."

And he like I'm saying, he said it like before he had even put out like a bunch of lace stuff. He's like, "Oh, you know, I'm working with this gene lace. It's really cool." D like everybody like, "Oh, okay. That's cool." And then the next thing you know, popping out a bunch of crazy lace combos. It's like, "All right, well, now lace is quadruple what it was before, you know, because he making some crazy stuff with it." It's like, dang, I wish I would have got it then. But, you know, it's like you just uh just He wasn't out saying like, "Oh, you got to get lace. You got to get lace." He's like, "This is something I think's cool and I'm going to do something with it." It's like Herbert in the chat. Ultra Male is cool. I'm gonna do something with it. You know, Herbert is not worried about what everybody else is doing with Ultra Male. Herbert is doing what Herbert wants to do with Ultra Male and he's making crazy Ultra Male.

See, that's something that these people don't understand, the ones that are attacking the game, bro. Like, for me, and this might sound disingenuous to some people out there, but for me, bro, I'm looking forward to hitting the animals. I'm not even looking at the money, bro. I'm not looking at the money. I'm not thinking about what I'm going to make off the the animals and the the next generation of animals. I'm not thinking about that. I'm thinking about hitting them and how happy I'm going to be seeing them coming out the egg, you know, shedding, eating a few meals, getting the 300, 600, 900 grams, 1,000, 1,000 grams,

Getting that animal eggs. That's what I'm thinking about. I'm not thinking about, okay, I'm going to make this amount of money, you know, I'm gonna I'm this I'm going to make this uh, you know, uh, ROI, whatever. Um, yeah, that it's important, but it's not the main thing. It's not.

But to be fair, man, but to be fair, when you first come into this and you watch a few videos and you talk to a few people, you think that's what the goal is, is to make money into this.

Because they want to be those top five guys.

But but the thing is like, dude, you should love the animal first. Like, you should just like ball pythons. Like, ball pythons should be the first [ __ ] thing you're like, I want to keep a ball python. Okay, cool. You legit want to keep this species, that box is checked. And then you find out there's a whole world where you could breed cool things. And then if that's something you really want to pursue, then [ __ ] go for it. But at least you know you like a ball python. And a lot of these guys got into this [ __ ] without even knowing if they even like a ball python for what it is. I mean, half these look at them. They just put them in a [ __ ] goddamn rack and they close it for the the seven days.

Yeah. So, that is actually the exact process I went through when I was trying to figure I'm like, I need to get a ball python. Literally, this is what I said. I need to get a ball python just to see if I can even get over the fact that I got to feed this thing rats, you know? Like, how's that going to be for the first time? Like, I'm watching YouTube videos on how to feed a snake a frozen thaw rat and you're literally taking this thing and dunking it in some warm water so this thing can track the heat on it. Like, uh, that looks gross. You know what I'm saying? But, I mean, you know, and then it's like, oh, this isn't so bad. And then you get another one and another one. It's like, all right, now I gotta figure out where to get like multiples of these where I don't have to buy like 50 and put them in a deep freezer or whatever. But

But even like, are you able to get rats on a regular basis, right? Like that's another thing people figure out is when they go from one snake to 10 snakes and they start looking at the pet shop bill like, "Huh, this is kind of getting expensive." Well, then you're going to start to realize you don't go to the pet shop for your rats because this won't make sense. You got to go.

Yeah, because you're getting ready to you're getting ready to spend $4 a rat.

More, dude. They're

Over there is probably

A small rat over here, bro. Oh my god. And they're sold out all the time, which crazy. Um, but yeah, like that's another thing, too, is like it's it's easy to get to the point where you could buy a rack system, you could fill it up. This [ __ ] happens quick, but can you sustain it? Can you keep it fed? Right. Are you going to be able to make sure there's never What What did I say? Why you laughing?

No, because I just remembered something.

Say it.

Hey, you could spend half a million dollars, but you can't even send you can't even sex a snake. Who was that? Is that a well-known thing?

Um, chats, drop the name. Come on, chats. Drop the name who that was.

Well, we're blocked. We're blocked by this person. Hey, this dude. Hey, this dude has sold four missex snakes. Four.

I ain't in it, bro.

Miss.

Hey, so half a million.

I ain't in it. Hey, Royal Clutch. Disclaimer. Royal Clutch ain't got nothing to do with this.

You do not. But man, it's like, yo, simple things like learn how to sex the [ __ ] snake, bro.

Just saying. Sorry. I had to. I had to.

I mean, that's is one of many things that you need to figure out before you try to make yourself known as a somebody who could, you know, sell you expensive high-end animals. Like, you know, obviously knowing the right [ __ ] sex of the animal, but knowing what you're listing, dude. Like, knowing what morphs you put on. Um, because, dude, people don't forget, dude. Like, if you're going to be Mr. aggressive post a bunch of snakes and 80 90% of those snakes are not correctly [ __ ] like posted, right? People are gonna this shit's going to be spread around in so many group chats and you are going to be the butt of every joke in that [ __ ] group chat and people are not going to forget. And then you add that with terrible coloration on the picture. Like some of these people don't realize how easy it is to tell that you put a [ __ ] filter on that snake. You know what I'm saying? It's pretty [ __ ] easy. And guess what? That is not ideal for anybody to put a filter on a snake, dude.

Sorry, we were talking about the cost of rodents.

Uhhuh.

Learn how to sex a [ __ ] snake.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Pay someone. Pay someone to ID them for you if you haven't shed them. You should be shedding everything.

That is That is paying somebody to ID.

I mean, I mean, Yeah, you're right. Why aren't you shedding everything? Yeah, that was fun.

Yeah. Another another perk of super gravels. Don't have to test for that.

Right?

Yeah.

It's gravel. Don't worry.

All right. Wrap-up topic of the night. So I'll go first and then we'll hit a big Mios topic or question. Um, I just want to know, you obviously Dorian, you know, we we talked a lot about why you took that year off, things that you've done, you know, decisions you've made while being in the hobby, but if you were to go back to square one, first year coming in, would you change anything? Like, would you would you have a different approach or what would you do differently?

So, if you would have asked me that two years ago, I would have said I would have done some things differently. But like now that I'm like hatching stuff from the stuff that I got, I'm I'm pretty cool where I'm at. Yeah, I'm cool where where I'm at.

So you're saying two years ago you're two years ago you would have been unsure.

Yeah, because I wasn't really like I didn't really have the production of like but like coming like seeing what like like you got to go back to like, oh, I bought this animal to do this with it. Well, do that with it. Then. And then after that, it's like, okay, great. Yeah, that that worked out. I mean, I probably would have pro the only thing is probably I would have tried to get like I would have got I would have got less animals but like more power, if that makes sense. So like I would have got more like double recessive females or whatever. But like I don't know, man. I kind of like the incomplete dominance. I like playing around with that stuff because that's where the combos and stuff come from. Like most of the outside of like puzzle and clown and tristripe and g-stripe and all the pattern, you know, uh recessives, like everything else is really just color. So,

Yeah.

You gotta you gotta be able to put some genes into that stuff too. So,

Right.

I don't know. I'm just like always on the side. I'm I'm not really uh not really behind in that aspect because I got the combo. So whenever I am ready to put DG hypo into something, I can and it'll have jeans. So it never is.

And that's what a lot of co [ __ ] breeders [ __ ] up at is they were so aggressively focused on recessives that they had they completely forgot that none of these recessive have legs without the right incomplete dominance. Like like these recessives are so limited without incomplete dominance in the mix. Like that's what's really going to level everything up in a recessive project is the right incomplete dominance. Um, and some of those people had to learn that the hard way, dude. Like they were they were just making DG clown [ __ ] when everyone was making DG clown [ __ ]. Like you you were nothing different than what's being produced out there. And that's why it's almost better to wait until you got like Blackhead [ __ ] whatever the [ __ ] in the mix on top of DG clown. I don't know. But without incomplete dominance, dude, you ain't going nowhere in the recessive game for sure.

Yeah. And then if that's what happened, well, we learn something and we move on from it, right?

What it's all about. It's all It's all learning experiences. Don't get upset. Just try to fix it. You'll be all right.

Yeah. Failing is okay. I hope you guys know that. Like it's it you know, first attempt at what it's called, you know?

Yeah. The the idea is to go ahead and do that pretty quick. Get that out of the way. Fail fast.

Yeah.

And then you can you can learn quicker.

That's the idea anyway.

Yeah. All right, Biggie, what you got for us? Uh yeah, Dorian. So tell me, is there anything that you're looking in the next couple years to get into? Something new? Something that you're like, "Holy [ __ ], I need that."

Yeah. Um, I really want a yellow tree bad monitor.

Yes, sir.

Damn. You already know who to go to.

You Yeah, you know, I already know who to go to. Already talked to him about it.

Yeah. Yellow tree, too. Why yellow? I gotta ask you. Is that just

I don't know. They just look so good. It's just something about them. Especially like when they're babies and they're like that green color. Like I know when you at Sousan like you saw some of the ones you had like just the colors on those things are nuts. Um, so I really want to get a yellow tree. Um,

Obviously like I do like the bowlins. Um,

I've been talking to Will about some stuff that uh that he just got. I'm not going to talk about what he got going on, but he's uh he's got some stuff that I'm uh that I I think is cool, you know, that it's just like when I first got in it was just ball pythons and then like you get into the hobby and then it opens up a whole another world of reptiles where you just like a bunch of stuff that you didn't even know existed. Like

If I didn't get Yeah. If I didn't get a ball python, there's no way I would know what a Bowen is. And then I found out what a Bowen's in. It's like, oh, I gotta have one of those. Like that's one of those things like I'm getting a bowling at some point. That those things that's going to be a display animal like my living room when people come over to the house and just see a bowling just perched up somewhere. It's like that thing so sick. Um,

Agree. So yeah, there's a few different uh species that I want to get into. Like obviously I want to have like my ball python room. Like I'm always like soft spot for ball pythons. I love them. You know what I'm saying? Like people like I know people outside of ball pythons call them call them pet rocks. I don't care, dude. They're cool. Um, but like I also want a reptile room that just has like different species of stuff in it. Like some animals that I just want to keep as pets. Like not even any intention to breed them. I just want them because they look cool, you know?

Yeah. Because it's cool to look at something not having to worry about like what you can make moneywise with it. And that's again that's you have no choice

Like to not think that when you are making cool [ __ ] in the ball python game like yeah even if you want to keep it that price tag is in your head like you think about it at some point maybe not right away but eventually you got someone either in your DMs or even yourself me I think about it right away like oh I wonder what this is worth only because that's why I have ball pythons dude I make money in ball pythons that's and and I'm won't say it's the only sole reason uh because I do like ball pythons but it's also been my bread and butter And that's how I get my new keepers to come in um and get into condos and [ __ ] like that. Like that's that's be my outlet. That's how I [ __ ] and that's how it should be.

That's something my wife really wants. She likes to come.

We'll take care of her, bro. Let's take care of your wife, dog. Come on. We all We all got to take care of our wives out there.

Yeah. But then on the other side, it's like I like the emeralds.

We could take We could take care We could do that, too. We could do both. We could do both of those.

But just know that's on you. That's just make sure that's on your radar, bro. I won't We're gonna end up getting something eventually.

I cannot wait. No, listen. I got to say there there's there's at least six ball python guys out there who well, one of them who's in the chats is going to be getting some heat tomorrow. But nothing's going to be making me happier in the next five years, especially when it's Amelio. But when I see all you guys with some of my [ __ ] in your collection, bro, like that that right there is when I might have a little bit of a tearjerker moment right there. I don't know. We'll see.

I agree with Dorian. Um, when I held that six to seven foot um bolins at Justin's place,

Magical.

I knew that uh in the next couple years to raise one.

Yeah. They're the best.

It's like it's crazy. You could just It's crazy. You could just take it because like with a ball python, dude, you get your hand anywhere near that thing's head, it's freaking out.

Yeah.

It's like, you know what I'm saying? That thing you just grab it by the head and it's just chilling. It's like, dude, this thing's so smart. You're right. You're right. Having a a reptile room with different species, you know, a condro, bolans, you know,

Different husbandry and attention.

Different stuff. It's It's like that's that's going into the real reptile world. You know what I mean? Love my ball pythons.

Yeah.

They are living art.

Right?

You know, there's nothing like it. But man, having the other stuff too is

Fresh and fresh air, you know? It's like you get to like, wow, you get to look at something different for once. It's okay.

[ __ ] yeah. Damn, two hours went by quick. What a great episode, Dorian. We got these round two hot seat questions for you, though. All right, before we let you go. Um, you know, I've had hot seat questions for you before, but so I'll have mine really wrapped up quickly here. But then you got Amelios, and I wish you the best when it comes to his, man. It's It could get steep. But guys, do me a favor. Hot seat question type of the episode. Do me a favor. Get the likes up. Um, hot seat questions coming in hot. You ready, Dorian?

Oh, yeah.

Okay, here we go. Coming hot. Favorite recessive in the ball python game.

Puzzle.

Least favorite recessive in the ball python game?

I feel like everybody says Carl.

Is that fair?

Yeah. Other than

Caramel.

Uh, dude, I don't know, man, because they're all cool. Uh, if I had to say Oh, I know. I'm gonna make somebody mad.

It's okay, bro. They'll be all right. They'll be okay. They They might need to hear it. It's okay.

You know what? I'm just gonna I'm gonna dog on uh Herbert here. I'mma go I'mma go Ultra Bell just because.

Damn. Dude, I love y'all though. That's the thing though. I don't even hate it. It's just my least favorite. That's all.

Damn, that's heavy. Okay, what do you think of Sunset?

Okay, I take it back.

Yeah. Hey, Ultra Bell people. I take it back.

Damn.

I take it back. See, and then I take it back because I I wasn't even thinking about that. If that tells you anything, like it didn't even come to my mind. Yeah, it's sunset. Never mind.

Damn. Okay.

All right. One.

Now, see, now you're gonna get Brandon mad at me.

See? Yeah. Whatever.

You'll be good, bro. Let's just keep it going, man. All right. One super gravel combo you would like to make that does not have clown in it.

A super gravel puzzle.

Oh, yeah. Okay, that was an easy one. Um,

Yeah.

All right. Uh, let's see. Last but not least, uh, one reptile show you would for sure have to vend once you start vending. Like, what's the number one on your list?

Bob show.

Bob show. All right. All right, Big. What you got for him, bro?

All right, bro. So, it's going to be simple. I'm going to give you six options and you're going to pick four. That That That's all you could work with.

You have to pick four.

Yeah. And this Yeah. Good. because you're gonna have to leave some stuff out, you know.

Hope you have a I hope you have a pen and paper ready.

Yeah.

Okay.

It just shows where your heart lies the most. Okay.

Okay.

All right. Puzzle, clown, hypo, DG paint, exantic. I need you to pick four.

Clown, puzzle, hypo, desert ghost. Damn.

I kind of knew you were going to do that.

Yeah, I knew that was going to happen.

All right. This I think I think the incomplete dominance are a little harder. All right, you're going to pick four again, right? You're going to have six options because these animals you did

It too and but I added something. This is how I refer to these animals as well. All right.

>> Gravel, Mandarin, Lace, Hurricane, Trojan, Wookie, SL, Raven Slash, Chocolate. >> Mhm. >> Pick four. >> Gravel, of course. Mandarin, of course. Lace, of course, and then I'm going hurricane.

M >> like in your head just think of that that quad super super mandarin white lace super hurricane super gravel. >> Yep. Yep. >> All right. Uh this one I just came up with myself because I asked a lot of guests this. >> Uh super chocolate hypo DJ clown or DJanthic clown? I have it in your collection right now. Hey Herbert's [ __ ] crashing out in the chats by the way. Look at this guy. He's saying gravel is trash. But he doesn't even But he doesn't believe that. >> Yeah, you're right. Because super gravel is what you need. That I agree with that. You need super gravel. There you go. Herbert's right. >> Herbert, relax. >> Look, dude. He's He's wholesaling all his Ultra stuff tomorrow. >> Hey, we're gonna have to talk about >> Hey, I'll buy Hey, I'll buy I'll buy it all. >> How about Herbert, keep it together, buddy. Come on. >> Yeah, we're crashing out. Ultra male people, listen. I just >> something I forgot about Sunset. My bad. Okay, my bad. >> Look, look at Nick is getting all emailing us, dude. Poor Ultra Male Sunset in my racks. Unloved the pain. I think he's in a corner cutting himself. This is wild, dude. Wow. >> That's Oh my god. >> Y'all gotta get rid of that. Y'all got to get rid of that question if if if Caramel got to go because I mean whatever. The Ultra Sunset is sick. >> Damn. could have just said albino. >> Hey, Herbert's live on palm tree right now. This is This is getting out of hand. >> You went to the elephant graveyard. No. >> Getting ready to lose. >> All right, I got one more. >> All right, here we go. >> What you got for me, dude? >> Here. You're gonna pick two. >> Okay. >> Super Hurricane Pompei Batman pastel cypress lace puzzle. Big Willie style. Hurricane DG. >> Hurricane DG Dark Knight. >> Pick two of them. >> Yes. >> The Hurricane DG Dark Knight and the Pastel Cypress Puzzle. >> I'm with you 100%. >> Yeah, those two animals are both just out of control, dude. >> Yep. Yep. >> Like that the the the lace puzzle stuff is gonna be nuts. It's gonna be crazy. I can't wait. >> Great. >> White lace puzzle stuff, you would say, right? >> Yeah, white lace puzzle stuff is gonna be >> Yeah, >> because I'm with you on that. Like I I I still have to wait for my shed test results because it actually skipped its first shed, but I think I hit a lace spot-nose clown of some sort, but I don't know yet. Like I I I somebody Amelio's actually sent me some other spot-nose clown fire stuff that looks very similar, and I'm like, what the [ __ ] So, we all know >> when White Lace is in the mix, there ain't no questioning it. We'll we'll know what the [ __ ] that is right away, >> right? >> Yeah. >> All right. Well, listen, good episode. I appreciate you so much, Dorian. Uh, where can people follow you at? Why don't you drop all your plugs and whatnot? >> Yeah, at the Royal Clutch on Instagram. I'm on Facebook, The Royal Clutch. You can also follow the YouTube page, so you'll be the first to know when the video actually drops. So, yeah, >> that's a good thing to do. The page exists. There's just no content on it. >> All right. Well, do me a favor. Shoot me the link to that and I'll put in the description below so people could go check it out. Um, and and go subscribe and be ready when you do drop your first video. >> All right, cool. We'll do. Thank you guys so much. >> All right, man. Guys, please go give him a follow. Find all the links in description below. But it's a wrap for the home. And Dorian, ladies and gentlemen, give it up. >> Great job, bro. >> All right, man. Have a good night, Dorian. I appreciate you so much. Peace. >> All right. See you, man. >> Later. Damn. Why do you have to serve him with the questions like that, bro? >> What you mean? >> Wait, was it my questions? What got him in the hot seat? >> I think I think I think yours was worse today. >> Definitely a lot worse. Yeah. >> Yeah, this was fun, man. It was a good one. >> Yeah, man. Good episode. Shout out to Dorian. You know, listen, like I said, there there is a time and place you need to realize when adjustments need to be made. And that's why I was looking forward to this episode because Dorian laid all that down on why he had to do what he did last year on kicking back and he does not regret it because now this year, dude, he could see a lot things clear with his projects and where things are headed and I'm excited to see what the future uh has in store for Dorian at the Royal Clutch, man. Good episode. What do you think of the overall tonight? >> Great. Great. Um that's awesome. That's what you know, I enjoyed it and we had a lot of fun. >> Um good good time tonight. Appreciate you so much, guys. Villerina Reptiles, go subscribe on IG. Uh, but give it up. It's a wrap for Big E. Top G, ladies and gentlemen. >> Good night, guys. >> Hey, have a good night, man. Appreciate you so much. All right, guys. Thank you so much for hanging out tonight. What a great great time. Shout out to Herbert. Herbert, you'll be all right. Brandon, you'll be all right. Christa, God bless. Um, yeah, man. If you enjoyed this episode and you're not already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button. And also, let's get the likes up, man. Dorian definitely deserves the likes to be up for sure. All right, so appreciate all the likes that we could get out of this episode. This episode will be released on all major audio platforms tomorrow. So of course, if you listen to any of these episodes on all the audio platforms, don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe if you're looking for exclusive content. All right, u please come join the Trap Talk Patreon family. Join the Discord and join the Instagram group chat. All right, I also drop early Morph Market vlog releases on there as well and more cool stuff I have in store for the Trap Talk Patreon family. Um, but yeah, appreciate all the love and support. Patreon members, you guys are my heart. I love you guys. Before I let you guys go, please check out all my sponsors in the description below. Oh yeah, I want to let you guys know I did release a new episode that is being dropped out of this network every other Friday. I think it's awesome. We're talking about Bowling Python um not too long ago right now on the podcast. Well, check this out. My man Ari Flagwell um is having his own show here on the Trap Talk Reptile Network every other Friday. He's already dropped his first episode last Friday. So, if you're in to wanting to learn more about this amazing species, this is going to be something you don't want to miss, telling you right now. And you cannot find any of this type of content anywhere else. The Bolan's Pythons roundt happening again every other Friday right here out of the Trap Talk Reptile Network with your host Ari Flagle. somebody who has dedicated, devoted his life to these animals in the wild, has wrote a book. Very excited. This is great. So guys, set your reminder for his next episode that's going to be dropping not this Friday, but the next Friday. And of course, you can still catch Dave Leonson's Reptiles podcast on the other Fridays of this week. And so guys, thank you so much for your love and support. This was a great episode. Again, check out my sponsors, all the link in the description below. And I'll catch you guys here Thursday night. Sorry for the interruption, folks, but a quick word from our sponsors. >> Hi, I'm Devin. I'm Perza and we are Prague Morris. We are based in Czech Republic, a small country in the middle of Europe. >> We really love animals that revolve around multi-reessive projects and one of our very favorites is Hypo. We're really looking forward to clutches that are coming this season and some of those are Hypo Clown, DG Clown, Hypo DG Clown, and one of our all-time favorites, Hypo Puzzle. >> Hope you enjoyed the next episode on Trap Talk, the greatest reptile network in the world. If you guys want to see next level, cutting edge ball python projects, please make sure you head over to their Instagram to follow all their amazing work and head over to their website to see what they could possibly have available by heading over to progorphs.com. Thank you again, Devin and Theresa, for bringing some of the biggest heat worldwide in the ball python game. If you want to be organized, if you want to be cutting edge in the ball python game, then you don't want to miss this. Shout out to today's sponsor and that's Clutch. Number one Ball Python organization app in the game. No better place to start off than by using this app. Clutch is an organization app that helps you organize all your Ball Python projects. It also helps your peers and your fellow community members look at what you possibly have coming for the upcoming Ball Python season, what you have currently available on Morph Market. It's so awesome to be ahead of the game by using organization app like Clutch. Thank you so much the entire Clutch team, amazing team over at Clutch. If I were you, I would head over to Clutch's Instagram account and I would also head over to their website, try it out, see how it works for you. But especially if you're just now coming into this before you build your reptile collection, I would do it organized and I would do it with Clutch. Thanking Clutch for being so amazing.