Nolan’s The Odyssey Full Breakdown: The Post World War 2 Consensus Movie We Need

People are willing to tell that story. The Europeans are evil. The Europeans have done evil things. Our civilization is guilty of all these sins. The European man has done all these evil things. And sometimes, I mean, most of the time, the accusations aren't wrong. That is European men, European civilization, the West, Christianity, in the name of Christianity, a lot of horrible things have been done and we have to be able to take the responsibility for that. But what's amazing about this movie, and it's because it's the story of Odicius, is that there's a way back. That the fact that you believe that you've done evil things doesn't mean that you should let the suitors take your house and your wife and your child. Doesn't mean that you should let strangers in your home take everything from you. And that you can see the evils that you've done and you can repent from those evils and you can try to come back home and you can do the cleanup that has to be done at home as well. And that those two things don't have to contradict each other.

This is Jonathan Pjo. Welcome to the symbolic world. So, a few weeks before the Odyssey movie came out, I made a video in which I questioned whether or not the casting choices, the of course the swapping, the race swapping, having Helen played by an African woman and of course the trans person playing one of the warriors, whether or not it was signaling some kind of subversion in the storytelling, you know, I was kind of worried about that. And then I got attacked by by the left. I got I got um attacked by the Substack stands. Um David Bentley Hart and a bunch of people just went after me with all kinds of and I kind of let it slip because you know they also were catching on a mistake that I made in the video where I said that the word Helen was related to Helen which it isn't. And so that was a mistake on my part. So, I just kind of let it slip because I thought, you know, they have a point that I'm making a mistake here and they're kind of taking it a little far by accusing me of all the ills, of course, being racist and all the things that people accuse people that that side accuses people of. Um, and then I finally saw the movie. I saw it during the premiere and so I had an early take on it and I made a video saying that I actually like the movie, that I thought it was a kind of Trojan horse for a beautiful story of a return of a father. Although I did use some of the you would say um techniques that modern kind of Hollywood storytelling is telling in order to put inside of that story a story about the return of the father. And then I got attacked by the right and called things that I never uh I've never been called before. You know, a cuck and all the things that the right-wingers call people. And so it's been a fascinating few weeks. Very interesting.

And so I thought that uh what I'd like to do with you guys is I'd like to do a kind of full symbolic breakdown of the Odyssey. You know, I'm going to take your time. We're going to go through it. I'm going to go through uh the scenes of the movie and we're going to try to break down some of the decisions that uh Christopher Nolan did. And uh and hopefully this will also be for some of you uh an interesting way of thinking about how to interpret a movie, how to see symbolism in something. And um, you know, what's the best way to interpret a movie? The first thing to say is one of the problems I think people are having with the Christopher Nolan movie is that they're comparing it to the movie they wish they could see. They're comparing it to what they think a movie of the Odyssey should be. They're also comparing it to the poem. And you know, this is maybe a little more understandable why you would want to to uh compare the a movie to the its source material. And this is something that's been really growing on people for the past few decades because of people's love of franchises, being annoyed that characters from franchises are being destroyed by their interpretation in different media. But I would say that this is a this is a a very thin take on how to look at something especially something as the uh Odyssey because the Odyssey and the story of Odysius and the story of Troy is really the foundation of Western civilization that I didn't get wrong in my original video. You know, all the people see themselves as going back to Troy. So many peoples the the uh the British, the Franks, the Scandinavians, you know, all of as soon as these peoples kind of joined to uh Europe, they tended to try to formulate how they came from Troy. And of course, the Romans themselves see themselves as escapes from Troy. So, it really is the kind of the foundation, but for that reason, it also has gone through so many takes. And so the you know even the movie that uh Chris Finanola made isn't the actual poem of the Odyssey. It's the story of Odysius and the story of Odysius is has has had all kinds of takes from the Roman reinterpretation to the medieval reinterpretation you know to Dante and then etc etc. There are all kinds of takes on these stories and you know the the original myths they have a a time a kind of openness to them that makes it possible to take a character and place them in in a relationship that would emphasize certain elements of the character.

Now what what do I mean by that? And so for example if you take the character of Helen herself the question is what is Helen? Is she a victim? You know, is she a victim of abduction? Was she taken uh by Paris and you know a kind of unwitting cause of all the chaos or is she just someone who was seduced by some guy and uh left her people and then caused all kinds of chaos because she was an unfaithful wife. Uh and there are other interpretations of it you know did she regret later? Maybe she regretted, maybe she didn't, you know, and if you read the poem of the Iliad, you'll see that there are hints and and of how of what her intentions were. But then there are other traditions and other poems and other stories that will kind of tag push the interpretation in a certain way. And that's why when people read when people watch the Odyssey movie and say, "Well, this is not the Odysius that I would like to see." I wish that they would at least pull back a little bit and rather look at the story itself. And when I talk about interpreting symbolism, I always tell people the first thing you need to do is to look at the inner coherence of something. That is, you have to be careful not to jump out of the movie or the novel or the fairy tale that you're reading or the Bible story for that matter uh and jump out right away. You have to be able to stay inside and look at the decisions that are made. Look at the narrative uh relationships that are there and then once you have you kind of master that then you can start to make analogies to other stories. You can now look back at like you you know like people are doing to the source materials because in this case there isn't just one uh source. Because there are many sources for for the movie and see how the intercoherence of the story are connected to the source materials and how they play with that. How they discuss with it, how they because the idea that the the retelling of something is simply supposed to be a copy of the thing that it's retelling, first of all, that's naive because a movie is not a poem. You can't make the Odyssey into a movie. It's not possible if you wanted to do it exactly like the poem. And also then what's the point? The point of retelling something is to in some ways make some aspect of it shine in a certain way. An aspect that is relevant of course to the people that would care enough to watch or to read a new version of these stories. So this is to me I think one of the things that is causing a lot of the chaos uh because man you know the radical differences between the way people are seeing this is crazy. I mean people absolutely hate it and other people absolutely love it. Uh, you know obviously there are people who who kind of sit in between and um, you know, why is that why is that happening? And first of all I do think that one of the problems that people are wanting to make compare the movie to what they think the movie should be and therefore get frustrated when they hit a wall against that. Um, but I think there's also something else going on which is related to my first interpretation about the Odyssey, which is that I think really I believe that um, Christopher Nolan is playing a lot of tricks on us. And the more I think about it, the more I realize that it's not a simple trick. It's actually a very complex trick that he's playing on us. Um, he has layered things inside the story in a way that is ringing people's bells in different ways but I think it's also exposing people in their ideology that is I made an an interpretation of the Joker movie quite a few years ago where I tried to hint at the possibility that because of the decisions made in the movie um it was triggering people you know and it was triggering people because it would take you in a direction and then when you think it should go, it would go in a different direction. It would make people frustrated because in the Joker movie for example, you know, we think people in the political sphere think that an incel is a certain thing. And so now the incel was acting both like the incel but also like a revolutionary leader, which is something that, you know, the the more left-leaning people couldn't handle to have these kinds of of of things. And I think now this is in some ways happening more on the right where the people on the right are watching things go in a direction and then when it gets turned they are frustrated they can't deal with it and they struggle to understand uh what it is that's going on you know um and so I want to take you through the story and we'll look at some of the tricks you know in the first one I didn't want to spoil it too much this is going to be so full of spoilers you know if you don't want to be spoiled don't don't definitely do not watch this this is going to be pretty much only a spoilers but my contention is I think that Christopher Nolan is very much aware of the kind of political situation that he's in this idea that you have to cast diversity in European stories and and you know he kind of understands people frustration with that you know people were pointing out how the same variety was on the one hand celebrating how you know ethnically exactly right Moana was in its representation of uh of Maui culture but then complains when people would like a kind of ethnically coherent representation of the Odyssey and so I understand people's frustration but I do think that Nolan is aware of that and is at least playing with us is at least playing with these tropes and kind of putting them out there and making them twist and turn in ways that are unexpected. Um and uh it seems to me like it's making people think about some of the questions for sure.

One of one of the things that I'm really happy to notice is that this movie is making people obsessed with the Odyssey, which is ex definitely something that we want because we love the Odyssey. You know, our company is Symbolic Press. We're getting ready to start to publish the entire epic cycle starting with Jason and the Argonauts and tell one story after the other through little chapter books for like, you know, 11 12-year-old children and go all the way to King Arthur and we're going to call the Age of Heroes. And so we care about these stories very much and we've done a lot to try to revive these ancient stories. You know, you know, our fairy tale publishing is probably we are probably the people right now that are publishing the western fairy tales with the most love and the most care and the most attention and so we definitely care about this. So let's look and so I'm happy to see that at least it's making people kind of obsessed with the Odyssey and comparing it and people who would never have heard of Cenon or of of Antinis are suddenly very much aware of these characters which is great for everyone if we can think about it and care about it. And so um, but my contention is that Nolan, he's playing with us. And as we go through the elements of the film, hopefully you'll come to agree with me and see that he is he's kind of playing a trick on us. And if you think that he's not capable of that, you know, one of the problems I've also seen in the the people that are reviewing this movie and are interpreting this movie is that everybody always thinks they're smarter than the artist. And I think that that to me is sometimes a little annoying is that everybody thinks that they're more insightful than the person who made it. And therefore when we see things in the movie they say oh there's no way that Christopher Nolan could have thought of that there's no way that he could have been so subtle or you know so tricky. I mean this is the person who wrote the prestige guys for goodness sake you know an entire movie about hiding and tricking and pretending you know and presenting something and having all these kind of flips and layers of meaning. And so no he is very much capable of uh of doing these things. And so we all we need to do is look at what's actually there in the movie and uh and and uh you know and not even push any interpretation it just look at what's being presented to us and usually the symbolic meaning will start to manifest itself just by doing that.

So the movie starts inside the room with the suitors, you know, as they are feasting and eating. And the bard is the first one that we hear, we see. And this is Travis Scott playing the bard. And I have to say when I started watching it, I was very I was like, "Oh, this is not going this is not starting well." You know, because he he does this weird thing. It's kind of like a slam, you know, like a spoken word thing where he just says words one after the other while he's hitting his stick on the table. Um and you know I felt like this is not particularly successful and it it's kind of odd uh to start with that but uh but obviously the thing that is most he talks about a man you know a war all of these different words but then he says a trick and and then I think you know when he says the trick that's when we go to the beginning of the the action and the beginning of the action obviously starts with this character and so is a character that is not in the Odyssey. And this is already where you have to let go of the idea that the purpose of this is is a representation of Homer's poem. The purpose is to take the entire kind of mythological storytelling and present it in a way that has its own inner coherence and that is also saying something that Christopher Nolan wants to say. Um, and so it's important to to notice these first scenes and see what's going on and then you're going to see. And so Can is of course the character played by Elliot Page. Uh, and Can is represented as very weak. He's represented as this weak soldier and people were posting clips of that scene where you see you know running down the hill and almost like dropping his stuff and you know he's the character is super thin and uh clearly is not meant to be a warrior. Uh and then comes right in front of the Trojan horse and immediately the Trojans come down the beach and they just throw a spear right through him uh and kill son on the spot. And what's wild about that is several weeks before the movie came out, people were posting memes of of the Trojan of the Troy movie where they had replaced Achilles head with Elliot Page and Elliot Page is running towards the giant and the giant spears Paige, you know, dies right away. And so it's just completely wild almost like an oracle that that is how the movie represents Canon. Can is speared by this by the Trojans right away at the beginning and basically uh dies right there as the Greeks are hiding in the Trojan horse and Can says you know this is a gift for Athena. So already you this is you realize that this is in some ways going to be some of the elements that Christopher Nolan adds to the story and in some way changes the narrative of the story because in Senan is from the Anid right which is the poem written by Romans in the first century and in that version is the one that tricks the uh tricks the Trojans right but in this version doesn't know what's going on and Cenon dies right away because shouldn't be there. We're going to find out later that xenon is the replacement of a man. You know, I mentioned that in my first video, but we're going to go through the elements of that and then we're going to see why why it's so important in the in the story and what it is that it seems to be suggesting to us, let's say, about what's going on.

Um, I'm here with Deacon Sarapim and want to tell you about the new universal history masterclass. We've been doing these universal histories for like years now and so Deacon Sarapim is going to pull it all together into a beautiful masterclass version. So tell us a little bit why anyone would want to do this. Deacon Sarapim, >> one of the things that I'm asked the most by people who, you know, conferences like the one we're at today, one of the things that I'm asked the most is where could, you know, what can it could you give me a reading list? Where can I find more about these things? You know, what primary sources are you using? Things like this. And you can kind of find all of that stuff in our videos, but there's like four years of videos now. And so what we're going to do is gather all of that stuff into place uh one place as as well as a bunch of new stuff that you guys haven't heard because it's just actually too detailed for the podcast and there's just kind of no way to get to it. It's going to be uh 6 weeks theoretically 2-hour classes each week. I think it's going to be something more like probably 3 or 4 hours. We'll just see how it goes. I'm just sort of bracing myself for defeat now in that regard. Uh, but it's going to be um Wednesdays at 3:00 to 5:00 p.m. Eastern time starting August the 5th through September the 9th. We've got early bird pricing through the end of the month. So, if you act quickly, you should be able to uh get in on that. Please come and join us. If you really want to understand your story, the story of civilization, the story of Christianity, the story of your people, your tribe, your family, even the city that you live in, even if you live, you know, in America today, this course is going to help you do that. We're going to we're going to lay everything out. We're going to bring all the receipts. We're going to get deep into things, and then we're also going to step back each week and look at what how this pattern, you know, actually teaches us how to deal with the the things that we're encountering in our country today. So please join us. >> Yeah, there's no reason to be a wanderer anymore. We have the road and Deacon Sarapin is going to lead us down it. So come join us.

And so we go back to the suitor and then we see Tmicus. And Tmicus is angry and he doesn't want, you know, he's arguing with his mother because his mother doesn't want the suitors to hear the poem of Odicius. And we get this confrontation between Tmicus and Penelope. Uh, and this is going to be important in the story because this this in some ways is that Penelopey, you know, obviously is a very brave character, but you can also tell that she wants to maintain control. So she doesn't want she doesn't believe that Tmicus is capable of leading and she's probably right. She doesn't believe that he's capable of replacing his father and therefore she is kind of keeping him under her skirt, you know, keeping him basically uh controlled by her. And so this confrontation where she's like, I want Odysius. I want my husband to come back. uh is setting up also that whole dynamic which will play through the movie and then will ultimately lead to Tmicus who will be come into his place right and will ultimately become the king of of of Ithaca and will be crowned in some ways by Odysius as this this happens. Okay. Then we obviously go to the to the training scenes. These training scenes are the ones that I mentioned in the earlier video which is that Tmicus is shown fighting And Tmicus is, you know, he keeps missing. He keeps missing. And then the uh the blind swine herd says, "You're moving too fast. You're trying to defend yourself too quickly." And he said, "You have to open yourself up, draw in the attack, right? And then when you do that, then you will use that to your advantage." Right? And so we already have, to me, the beginning of the movie sets things up. up. And it's always important to kind of understand the beginning of the movie because we realize that this in some ways is the trick, right? This is what Odysius will do later at the end of the movie, which is that he will come in to his house as a beggar and he'll let the suitors abuse him. And so you can realize that this it's almost as if you can feel like the the swine herd has been taught by Odysius, you know, how to be tricky, how to be wise, and how to not, you know, to pretend that you're weak and then let in the let in the enemy and ultimately deal the final blow. Um, and so now we already have a few layers of showing this idea that the trick is going to be a very important part of the movie. And so I really do believe that that there's a meta thing going on here, which is that through the use of Canon as the character that was tricked by uh Odysius and tricked by everyone ultimately this image of of Tmicus who's being told, "No, you have to use trickery in order to be able to deal the blow. You have to pretend to be weak. You have to kind of give in to your enemy to some extent. Let the enemy come in and then when the enemy is in, you can you can kill them." Obviously, this is what happens with the suitors. You know, they they're in Odysius's house. They lock the doors and then they then they obviously kill them. And so, we need to talk a little bit about what why is it that Christopher Nolan adds it's a very complicated part of the story. It's a very it's a very complicated part of the story.

So, the story is that uh Agamemnon decides to use lots to decide who's going to come to the war. So they draw lots and Antonyus Antonyus is the guy who is the head of the suitors. He's the he's the swarmiest, right? He is the the the most kind of mustache twirling evil guy in the in the suitor. He's the leader of them. gets the lot to go to war and then he immediately turns to Can and tries to convince Can to to take that lot because had received the lot not to go. Um and so Odysius sees this and is very embarrassed and is trying to cover for the shame of the family. So what Odysius does is that Odysius lies. Odysius says that Antonyus had received the lot not to go and Can had received the lot to go and that Antonyus was now trying to convince Cen to let him go and fight in the war. Right? So, Odysius lies, flips it, and he and so, so then he says, you know, actually, no, we shouldn't do this. You know, it's okay. You know, Antonyus, he received a lot to stay, so he should stay and he should take care of my wife and my family and son will come and fight with me. And so, he cover tries to cover for the shame of the family. But this lie is the basis of the whole that whole kind of aspect of the story. He tries to pretend that son is the worthy warrior, you know, and he does it to cover the shame of the the noble boy and take this kind of just shepherd boy and try to pass him off as a man, as the one that should fight. And he does that to cover the shame of the fact that the the one who's supposed to fight is a coward. The one who's supposed to fight is a parasite. The one who's supposed to fight is lazy, you know, and maybe just stays at home and doesn't want to work and doesn't want to take up the responsibility of civilization and has and has in some ways given up the the responsibility and now is going to spend the rest of the movie blaming and accusing and saying that oh no no he wanted to go fight you know he wanted to go fight in the war and lie and will come to believe the lie himself. Can comes to believe that he really really wanted to go to Troy and tried to convince Odysius that he was the one that that that had been chosen to go and fight for the battle. And so you can realize that all this is based on a lie. So whe whether you like it or not, Christopher Nolan is suggesting that the character played by a trans person, Elliot Page, is the one that wasn't supposed to be the man that wasn't supposed to go out and fight, that wasn't supposed to go to war, and ended up only going to war and fighting because the true man had had uh abdicated his responsibility. And I think that that's absolutely right. I think that Nolan is right to blame the chaos of our world and the gender confusion and all of that mostly on the fact that men abdicated, you know, and it's it's so much easier to blame everybody else and to say, "Oh, society society everything's falling falling apart." But you know you know if you believe in a normal kind of hierarchy of things the be the beginning of the of the problem starts with the fact that the men themselves have not been willing to play the role that was given to them. And I think that I think that that take is right. I think that he has a um you know I think that that he has a good insight into doing that. And of course in the end the Can character ends up being the victim of all of this and being the victim of the lie, the victim of the trick, you know, the victim of all of that. And you know, and Odysius has affection and feels guilty for, you know, putting Can out there. And then ultimately one day, you know, in Hades, I think it's in Hades, where he says that Can was the bravest young man he's ever met. And people have been dishonest about this because they said that the line was that he was the bravest warrior, you know, of the Greeks. He Odysius doesn't say that. Odysius says he was the bravest young man I've ever met, you know, and he was brave because, you know, he was willing to to to to go out and be the man in a position where it was not he shouldn't have been, right? It wasn't his role to do that. And so there's a kind of bravery in it, but it is ultimately a uh a kind of vain vain bravery. A bravery that doesn't give anything except that Cena just gets speared and then ultimately ends up telling Odysius that when he sees Antinis that he should make him swallow his shame, the shame of not being the one, not being willing to go out and to fight. Um, so we always have to kind of remember every time we see something in the movie, you can't just interpret it for what you're seeing there. You have to wait and you have to wait until all the information in the story is given to you. And then once all the information is given to you, then you can see the meaning of the different things. If you just see something that you don't like, then you panic. You lose your mind because you see a trans person running like a little boy down the hill and you think, "Oh, look at that. Well, maybe that's what was supposed to be shown and maybe there you're missing the context to be able to understand it in the fullness of the story. And so, you know, in if you look at what is exactly there, you'll realize that that this is this is exactly what's in the movie.

Right now, another trope that's very important in the movie is this notion of the people of the sea. So all through the all through the movie you have this trope where people are worried about the people of the sea. They have this idea that the people of the sea are coming and they are going to attack and to destroy our civilization. Um and that's why they want Odius to come back is because they're worried that the people of the sea are coming. The people of the sea are attacking. Um and this is another place where Christopher Nolan definitely knows what he's doing. And this is to me is obvious. One of the criticisms of the movie from the very beginning was that there are no Greeks in the movie and people were very frustrated because it wasn't ethnically representative understandably people were frustrated like why are you making the epic story of the Greeks and you don't have any Greeks in it and I think Christopher Nolan was very much aware of what he was doing and the reason is because of this trope in the whole movie. So there is a Greek in the movie. There actually is just one. And when Odysius leaves Troy and starts to go down, you know, tries to get back home, one of the things he does is he pillages all of these cities. He pillages all of these villages. This is something that is in the poem, by the way. Uh Odicius just ransacks, pillages villages on his way back home. And so in this version, you see Odysius pillaging a village. And then there's a man on his knees with like tears in his eyes speaking Greek and they have to translate it, you know, with uh subtitles. And he asks them, he says, "Are you the people of the sea?" And then the person who answers him is the the character who's played by an Indian man. I forget I forget his name. He answers him in English and he says, "No, we are Greeks from Ithaca." And I think that Christopher Nol exactly what he was doing, you know, because they are the people of the sea. We find that out later in the movie. We find out later in the movie that this band of warriors are the ones that are destroying civilization. So, see, you can't have it all. And this is why I think Nolan is kind of playing with you and joking with us is that you don't like the fact that the that the the army the Greek army is represented as being very diverse and you don't like that. I get it. Okay. But then it's represented as the thing that's destroying civilization. So you can't have both. Do you see what I'm saying? I hope you understand what I'm saying cuz I hope I'm being clear enough. And so I think that Nolan knew exactly what he was doing. And that's why he chose to put the Greek man in the movie as being the one that is the victim of this this this band of warriors that has just destroyed Troy, just destroyed the greatest city of in civilization, you know, for very cynical reasons. And in the movie, it's presented that the purpose, the reason why they're attacking Troy isn't really because of Helen. The reason why they're tracking Troy is because it's a cynical reason that they're using in order to just destroy Troy and capture the trade routes and basically it's for kind of socioeconomic reasons. And so the thing is that again you can't have it. You can't have it all. And so if you don't like the fact that an African woman was chosen to play the woman who launches that launches a thousand ships, then you also have to notice that in the movie that's not that's not it. That's not the reason for the war. The reason for the war is is political and socioeconomic in the movie. And so like I said, you have to be able to look at the fullness to see what is it that Nolan's doing with you. He's kind of playing with you and he's saying, "Oh, you don't like this, but also you don't like this. How can you hold that in your mind?" And I think that that's one of the reasons why people are so divided in interpreting the movie is because they catch one thread and then they pull on it and they don't realize that Nolan is also repre is presenting to you all these other threads.

You know, one of the things that really was kind of bothering, not bothering me, but that I was very curious about was why did Nolan pick the same actress to play both Helen and Clynestra? And so, you know, in the tradition, Helen and Clynestra are the are sisters, half-sisters, but you know, they're not twin sisters. At least I don't know of any tradition that said that they're twin sisters, but he makes sure that they're twin sisters. And so, this is definitely on purpose, you know, and so what is he doing? what is he trying to say? Um, we've already seen that Ellen in this version is not really the cause of the war. We've also see in the movie that Helen is probably willing to go with Paris. You know, this is a completely legitimate interpretation of the Trojan War, one which, you know, had there are different versions of it. Sometimes she's seen as a victim, but in this version it suggested that, you know, she left with Paris and so she betrayed her husband. She left with Paris and now you know this is causing all kinds of chaos and this is represented when Tmkus meets uh uh Menaaus and Helen. can see obviously these people don't love each other that there's a horrible kind of u horrible kind of conflict between them and then you see that he turns her face and he shows that she's scarred on one side of her face and so it represents obviously that probably he's beaten her, you know, and he's he's kind of this kind of cruel man but also there's also like a two-faced thing going on I think especially because Nolan made that movie about two-faced that she is a two-faced that she herself is not what you think she is, you know, that she betrayed her family and she left with Paris to go to Troy. Um, but then you also hear, of course, of Menaaus's brother, Agamemnon, who because he sacrificed his own daughter to go to war, is ultimately killed by his wife who's played by the same actress as Helen. And so if you look at if you pull away and you look at the decision, you realize, oh, so the way that Nolan is representing this is that you have these dysfunctional couples, these dysfunctional families. The one Agamenon and his wife for one reason, Menaus and Ellen for another reason, and Penelope and Odysius are not that. They are a couple that love each other, that are longing to see each other, that want to be reconciled, that want to be brought back together. Of course, Penelope is faithful to uh Odysius. And in this version, you know, it's even more than that because, you know, obviously in ancient Greece, fidelity of a man was not a big it was not something that was particularly important. And so, in this in the the poem, you know, Odysius, you know, has a love affair with Cersei, has a love affair with Kalypto. Uh, and in this version, this is downplayed, right? the he doesn't have a love affair with Cersei and obviously he has some kind of affair with Calypto but you you don't you feel like it's he was almost like uh drawn into it through drugs, you know, by forgetting who he is and so he's the blame of that relationship is kind of taken away and it really is, you know, this is obviously now more a lot of the values behind the movie are kind of like Christian or post-Christian, you know, and this is a place where where you see it which is that ultimately what Nolan is doing is trying to represent the type of relationship between Odysius and Penelope as something that is stable that can bring about continuity that can bring about the son who will who will you know take the place of the father that will ultimately be the the one to replace his father in the proper way. And he compares it to the dysfunctional families, the dysfunctional relationship that you see in Menaaus and Helen and that you see in Agamemnon and uh Claytonestra. And he tries to kind of mix it together because you have this conversation between Tmicus and Menaus where you know Menaaus talks about how arrestes after Clayton killed her husband Arrestes who is Agamemnon's son then kills his own mother and Tmicus is so completely horrified by that and he says what Arrestes killed his own mother and Mena says no he avenged his father, right? That's what's important, you know, and so all of the so basically you can see that this is something of course that Telmicus would never think of because because it is this real loving family, you know, despite the fact that, you know, Odysius hasn't been there for 20 years, but that's at least what is trying to be represented in the story. Like I said, you always have to kind of look at the inner coherence of how things are are placed in relationship with each other and then you can understand, you know, what it is that's going on. And so I think it's important to realize that in the story now in this version, Helen isn't really the face that launched a thousand ships. She's not the real cause of the war. The emphasis is being put on how dysfunctional the relationships are between these characters and how Penelope and Odysius and Tmicus have this kind of possibility of becoming fruitful and uh and uh you know and bring about a kind of continuity despite all of the problems.

So, a lot of people have been annoyed, of course, with the representation of Odicius because he's quite somber. He's not a trickster. He doesn't have the kind of lightness that you would um attribute to a kind of wily trickster. And, you know, I can understand why people are annoyed with that. But once again, we have to look at what it is the story is trying to do. The story emphasizes notos. The story emphasizes the fact that Odysius wants to go home. Odysius can't go home. and he can't go home because of the things that he did at Troy and then ultimately the things that he does along the way. And that's why there are these several scenes where you know that Odicius wants to go home but then he's told and he realizes that he also doesn't want to go home and he lives with that contradiction and it is really in some ways the contradiction of the postwar phenomena. It's the it's the living with the contradiction of the post-traumatic event where you know because of what all of because of the fact that Odysius ultimately realizes that he broke Zeus's rule, you know, that in some ways what is happening in his own house that is the how the suitors are abusing hospitality that he also did that at Troy that that they use a trick a gift to a god, you know, a sacrilege in order to be able to finally uh enter and destroy the city and that and that this is something that he kind of has to live with. And it's in some ways he realizes that at least in his case it's the reason why he can't really completely become king again and why he rather has to do everything that he can to set up his continuation, right? to basically make his son the king, you know, and this is, of course, it's a very beautiful way of understanding what it is that's going on. My goodness. I mean, I'm not saying the movie is about this, but you know, we have been living in the shadow of World War II now for very long. You know, you know, our religion is World War II. Everything about us is World War II. And since World War II, it feels like we have been in this PTSD society that cannot love its own home, that cannot come back home, that has to be that has to in some ways hate our own history, hate our own heritage constantly. And it's and it's exhausting and it's understandable because of the things that happened in the war. We understand that, you know, on the side of the axis, the horrible things that they did, but now we're also realizing on the side of the allies, the things that we did are also horrible. And of course, the this particular version of the Odyssey because the peoples that are represented in the armies of the Greeks are kind of these allies. You know, they're they're obviously diverse and therefore they represent these allies. But Nolan is also representing the evil that they've done and the reason why they can't go home. They dropped the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We've we've been tried to justify that for years now. We tried to justify that for decades that it was completely acceptable to kill tens of thousands of civilians in two cities, not just one, two cities in Japan. And we think that this is completely it's not this is not a violation of Zeus's law. And so I mean obviously I'm not saying this is what the movie is about. Although Nolan has suggested that this I saw an interview with him uh I forget who it was with where he was suggesting that this is in some ways is coming after Oppenheimer that his movie is a kind of sequel or or a continuation of the Oppenheimer story which is that what do you do once you've done these horrible things? How do you come back? How do you come back home? And I think that this is why we have to kind of understand Odicius in the proper frame that is what it is that Nolan is trying to do and is trying to bring us back trying to bring us home I think from the war and is trying to make us accept the responsibility for the things we've done which is what Odysius ultimately has to do in the end when he's with Calypso, you know, and Calypso makes him forget and you know, some people are criticizing the fact that obviously in the Odyssey Odysius doesn't take the lotus flower. You know, it's his men that take the lotus flower and it's not related to Calypso. But I do believe that this is a very smart decision to do it this way, especially as we know that it speaks to us that live in dilapidation, right? It speaks to us that live in entertainment and in a kind of forgetfulness of who we are and where we come from. And this is related to the strange woman, right? It's related to this, you know, you could almost imagine that Calypso is like a is like a porn star, right? She's she's a beautiful fake. And she's also very fake, by the way, if you've noticed this kind of beautiful fake uh woman that gives you your medicine, you know, uh to kind of to kind of help you to heal, but also which makes you forget, you know, what you're doing and where you're going. Obviously, in the movie, it's represented really like medicine. Like, you know, on the one side, it's a kind of medicine, but on the other hand, it's also a uh a a type of drug that will destroy you if you're not.

careful. Um, and you know, it's a little weird. I do. I think it's a little weird that she's so willing to let him go, uh, that she basically like really wants to help him remember. That's one of the aspects of the movie that that I find a little, I just find a little odd. I would have, you know, even in the very internal structure of the story, I would have liked to see her want to hold on to him, you know, kind of like a drug addiction that that that she would have wanted to keep him with with with her, you know, as a as a kind of uh, you know, a succubus of a of of some kind, you know, like a temptress or something like that, which is what she is in the in the poem as well. But, you know, I mean, whatever. The movie is not 100% perfect. uh, but in general, it is still nonetheless quite good.

So if we look at some of the places that are visited, you know, of course, you can't make a movie about the Odyssey and put all the places that were visited by Odysseus. You know, Nolan just picks several very precise ones. He picks, of course, the ones that have to do with that really exemplify the question of Xenia, right, the question of hospitality. And in some ways, what Nolan does is that he makes hospitality the main thread. Two things: hospitality and nostos, right, this desire to return home or the impossibility, difficulty to return home and to remember. But then also, um, the question of hospitality and home itself as the place where you encounter the stranger and you, you kind of have this interaction with the stranger. Um, and so the decisions that he makes on which ones to to show, I think, are seem to be mostly related to how he can make them, uh, either either play on the question of nostos and return or the question of Xenia, hospitality, and the relationship with the stranger. Um, and uh, you know, I think that it's it plays out pretty well.

I think that the the the question of the the Cyclops is, I think the Cyclops scene is one of the best scenes. It's really astounding, and I know a lot of people are annoyed because there isn't the whole "nobody" play on words and there aren't many Cyclopses, and I get it. You know, I wish I could have seen that because I really like that part of the Odyssey, but like I said, we have to in some ways see the way that he does it. Is it coherent? Like, does it fit with the type of tone and the type of story that he's telling? And I think that it does. I think that it works. Um, you know, I think that, you know, the you see several kind of abuses of of hospitality and you kind of get it right away, which is that on the one hand, the Greeks definitely shouldn't have gone into his cave, which is an abuse of hospitality. You know, if you think of Goldilocks, for example, you're not supposed to go into someone's house and wait for them inside their house. That is obviously an abuse of hospitality, and that's what they do. And then when the the uh Cyclops comes in, he immediately proceeds to start to devour them, which is, you know, also kind of an abuse of hospitality. And so we realize that this is too far. And I and I actually do like the scene when, you know, they realize that it's actually a rational being and can speak and they say, "Well, maybe we should talk to him." And then Odysseus says, you know, "I think we're past that. We're past, we can't do that anymore because we've already crossed the line on both sides. One, which is going into his house, the other, which is devouring his guests. Uh, you know, we're in trouble." And so I think I think that it's quite successful the way he does it. And then this little moment of revenge that Odysseus has, you know, shooting an extra arrow at this uh this kind of uh pathetic creature, um, to show that he's, you know, he doesn't really, he does have that kind of arrogance and that and that pride that has caused the problem. And you see in the story a few moments where in that where he's he has a kind of arrogance and pride, obviously already in the lie that he tells at the beginning with Sinon, uh, but then also saying, "No, we don't need to follow the other warriors, we're going to go on our own way, and no, we'll find food, don't worry, we don't have enough provisions, but we'll be fine." You know, and then he's forced to pillage, literally pillage all of these these towns on the way.

The Laestrygonian scene is obviously also it's an interesting scene of encountering the strange. You know, they go on shore, they see this character that doesn't fit because is a bit taller than them, but is a child. And the way that the child reacts to them is a very concise, beautiful image of the encounter with the strange. Is that the two ways in which we we we tend to encounter things that we don't know, we don't understand. One, to mock it, and then two, to be afraid of it. And you know that means this is not going to go well. The fact that the child starts laughing and then starts screaming, it means that already the relationship is not the right relationship with the stranger, and massacre is about to ensue. So, you know, these are obviously, like I said, it's so impossible to tell this story. I I do feel like Nolan is able to contract these stories in their essences and to be able to dramatically show the basic essence of the relationship without having to make having these like long drawn out scenes. I mean, the movie is already three hours, so it's it would be difficult to kind of do to it do it all.

Um, the Circe scene is also quite fascinating, and there's also, I think, a lot of Nolan is kind of playing with us, you know, because the men present themselves and they say that they're not, they don't want to do any harm to her, you know, but obviously they're wearing weapons, and they've they've already pillaged other villages, and they destroyed Troy, you know, and they are the people from the sea. Uh, although they now say, "No, no," you know, they they kind of deny that they are, but they also don't want to harm her. And so, you see this abuse, kind of broken relationship where on the one hand, this woman who, you know, is afraid of the men that are coming, she's alone, and there's reason to be afraid of them. They don't necessarily want to hurt her, you know, but that they have hurt other people before. And therefore, all of this is creating this problem, which is that she only sees them through their desires, right? She only sees them as the rape, the rapists, as the, you know, the the men of of desire. And for that reason, she turns them into pigs, and she only sees them as pigs. And so I've seen many reviewers already say, "Well, this is the feminist take. This is the feminist take." And I think, you know, Nolan's smarter than that. Nolan's far that there is a obviously a a sense of the the the the the woe of the woman who has to face abuse, abuse of men, because there are abusive men. That's the idea that men abuse women, you know, the idea that that's a feminist take, that's not a feminist take, that's just a real thing. But what you see is that because of this brokenness, because she doesn't trust the men, because they also are not totally worthy of her trust, this this she turns them into these pigs. Um, but you see, she's also turned her own sister into an animal. So, she's turned all these men into animals. But because she is now so kind of distrustful, and she in some ways has isolated herself in her perception of the world so much that she's turned her sister into a crow. She's now completely alone. And so, she's not just a victim. She's also very much a a a victim that has used probably her victim status as an excuse to hurt others and to hurt the people that she loves. And therefore, I don't think Nolan just presents her in the simple take of being a victim, but presents a far more subtle and complex version of the relationship in which, like I said, you know, she has right to be afraid, but she's also been twisted, and she's twisted herself so much that now she is willing to hurt people before they they hurt her, and and hurt her own sister, transform her into a crow. And um, so I thought that it was I thought that it was a quite a subtle way of of uh of presenting this, a way that is not a kind of straightforward uh vision.

And so ultimately, Circe sends is the one who sends Odysseus and his crew to Hades. She says, "You're lost. You know, you're lost." And obviously now they're completely lost. And they're lost in many ways. They're lost in the sense that as they move further, at first, you know, they have these Greek this Greek village, but then as they move further, you know, that everything turns. Obviously, one of the things that happens as you move strangers is that you can't control what's happening. That's why the Laestrygonians are in some ways the oppressors. Now, they're the ones that although they they were pillaging the village before, now they can't do that with the Laestrygonians. Man, I can't say that word. The Laestrygonians uh are now attacking them. And so then Circe is this witch. She has all these mag she has these magical powers. She has turning them into monsters. And so they're really, they're lost. And so they have they're kind of, if you imagine, they're kind of going down, down, down, down. They're already next to Hades. They're already kind of, they're losing themselves and they're going down into death itself. They've already become animals. They've become food. You know, all of these images of losing meaning and falling down into chaos and and uh and and the depth. And therefore, the next thing they have to do is kind of touch bottom and go to Hades.

Now, so they go to Hades, and this is another place where people have been critical because they everybody wants Odysseus to have encountered the ghosts of Achilles there. Now, the problem is that Achilles is not a character in the story, and so they would it went on and made sense to have Achilles there. And the same, you know, Odysseus's mother is is one of the characters that he meets in Hades. He doesn't meet her. There's all these other characters that he meets, but they Nolan tried to pick characters he meets in Hades that are related to the structure that he is setting up. And so obviously he meets Anticleia, and in some ways, where Kon also realizes that Sinon, that he's been lied to, that he believed the lie. And the when he says he believed the lie, he said, "I died for your lie." And it's really, really tricky. It's really nice because when he says, "I died for your lie," he means, of course, the lie that Odysseus didn't tell him that the Trojan horse was a Trojan horse. But he's also dying for another lie, which is the first lie, the lie that that Odysseus accepted this weak boy to come fight in the war to cover the shame of the noblemen and his son. And so that's also the lie that he's dying for. And Odysseus kind of has to unpack it for him because he believes the lie, even into Hades, believes that he wanted to go and fight with Odysseus, and he tried to convince Odysseus that he wanted to fight, when in fact he had been chosen by lots. So, it's it's really, it's one of those, it's one of those Nolan things where he's really kind of playing with your mind. He's he's really bringing you into a kind of puzzle that you will see. Uh, and then of course, he meets Agamemnon. And I actually thought that the fact that he meets Agamemnon there, and Agamemnon looks really weak in there, and you realize that his armor is almost like a, it's almost like a shell around this weaker man. Uh, and Agamemnon is there in Hades. And I think it was a good idea to have Agamemnon being one of the people that he meets because what Agamemnon does is that he gives us the dramatic impetus for why Odysseus has to disguise himself when he goes home. Because without that, it's not that obvious for us. I remember when I read the poem the first time, I wasn't totally sure why Odysseus was lying to everybody when he got back home. Like, it wasn't that clear to me narratively. But here, you know, the fact that Agamemnon says, "Hey, I when I went home, my wife killed me, you know, and you've been gone for 20 years, you don't know what she's up to. You have no idea." And and and Odysseus told Penelope in this version, he said, "If I'm not back after a certain amount of time, when Telemachus becomes of age, you need to take another husband, or else you'll be in trouble." So, he doesn't know, is she going to come back, find her with another husband? You know, what's going to happen? Is his son alive? Has it everything turned against him? Uh, and the fact that Agamemnon was killed by his wife is kind of that you re it gives you the dramatic impetus for when he goes back home to realize that, you know, he has to disguise himself and he has to perform that final trick. And so I thought in terms of the internal coherence of the story, I thought it was a good decision to do it that way.

And at this point, you know, already at this point, what you realize is that the Odysseus's men don't trust him anymore. Or they probably have reason because of the Cyclops event. Um, and so now Odysseus also kind of has to use tricks on them in order to use different means to try to prevent them from dying. But, you know, their own decisions are going to lead him to death. He uses reverse psychology when he comes to Charybdis and Scylla, you know, he he knows that if they go to the whirlpool that all will die, but he tells them to go to the whirlpool, you know, and that they'll get through fine. Uh, and that forces them to say, "No, no, no. We'll go through the through the hills." And when they go through the hills, they get six of them gets killed. And then there's they're angry at Odysseus because he knew. But Odysseus was trying to save them through by lying and like pretending that they should go through the whirlpool. And there's several of these examples, uh, you know, as he's trying to kind of figure out a way to to get them to survive. Um, ultimately, you know, he he doesn't succeed. He loses, as you know, everybody dies.

The scene with the Sirens I thought was great. I thought it was nice because it's it was nice and it was coherent within the story, you know, and ultimately the Sirens help Odysseus realize the problem of his ambition. And in some ways that, you know, this is the this is the type of thing that rips men apart, right? This is the type of thing. It's like, what do you desire? Do you desire to be with your family? Do you desire to have a great career and to be successful in the world? To become intelligent, wise, uh, to know all these things. And so the problem is that, you know, what you want is not really what you want. And when you have it, you realize that you lost something, you know, and that you had it all along. And this and this this speech that he makes is really in some ways the inner turmoil of of all men. Uh, I think at least I would recognize myself in what he said, which is this this this problem that, you know, as you move towards something, there's something that gets left behind, and you realize the value in what you had when you lose it. Um, and then ultimately, obviously, it ends when the Sirens tell him that you don't really want to go home. And I think that if you think about this story, this is really important part of the story, which is that Odysseus, you see that when he gives his speech at the end of the movie with his with his wife, is that, you know, he himself wants to go home, but he also doesn't want to go home. He he knows that he's done too many things to go home. And and this is really where it's a very, it's a modern take, for sure. It's a modern take that is related to again, our post-war trauma and our incapacity to have what it is that we've that our our own history, to have our own families, to have our own our own, you know, story, our own land, our own nations. We we it's like we struggle because of that of that trauma. And so, you know, I think that that that that it makes sense that the that that the Sirens event makes sense.

And uh, you know, ultimately, they get to the land of the heers of the sun god, you know, and obviously the uh the the the men they betray their promise, and uh, they're put to the mercy of the of Zeus. And you know, a lot of people have criticized the way that the gods are represented in the story. And you know, when when you when you create a world, right, you try to kind of give a a type of coherence. And for sure, I think that Nolan is not a particularly religious person. He is obviously more of a kind of secular humanist, I guess you would say. And he tries to kind of fit the gods into that type of worldview. And he tries in some ways to make the gods into extensions of, um, you know, the forces of nature, the forces of fate, you know, the all of these kinds of things. And uh, I can understand why some people are annoyed with that because, you know, I I want to see the gods. I like I like when they represent the gods as characters, but I also think that within the the decisions that are made in the movie, that it plays out fine, and that to me, it's somewhat, it's acceptable because that ultimately the movie still yields the story of the return of the king and the the return of the father.

Um, because as you know, Athena, it's not clear whether or not what he's seeing is Athena, or whether what he's seeing is the trauma of what they did at Troy. Right? Because when they go to Troy, there's this one girl, I think she's a priestess of Athena, who gets her head gets cut off in front of him while they're desecrating the temple of Athena. And that is the woman that basically becomes Athena for him and kind of guides him through his trip. It becomes like his conscious conscience and reminds him, uh, of of his of who he is and his responsibility, and also of what he's done at the same time. And uh, you know, I think that in this sense, Athena represents civilization itself, or, you know, the the the good of civilization that he is has betrayed, but also wants, and also is trying to return to. And she has compassion of him because she sees that there is, you know, a way back, which, you know, I think is amazing. I think that's an amazing thing. I think it's amazing that this movie is not afraid to show all the evil things that Odysseus and his men did. Is not afraid to show that that they betrayed hospitality, that they destroyed Troy, you know, that they raped all these women, that they pillaged all these villages, that they did all of these horrors, which they did, which is the end of the story, right? This is part of the story. Um, but that it is possible to return, you know, and you see that, of course, obviously in the in the moment when Calypso sends him back, and she says, you know, she builds build this raft. He's he's trying, obviously, it's it's kind of it's a little on the nose, but, you know, he's trying to gather the the the fragments of his ship, and he's also trying to gather the fragments of his memory, you know, to build this raft. And she says, basically, just take the punishment, right? Just just don't stop fighting it. Accept you're guilty. Like accept the the the sins that you've made. And ultimately, she doesn't say repent. That's basically what she's saying. She's saying, stop pretending that you that you're not the people from the sea, that you're not the people that are destroying civilization, you know, fess up to it, accept it, you know, and then let yourself die, you know, but you won't die. Don't worry, Zeus won't let you die. And you know, that scene where he falls off the he falls off the raft into the waters, obviously, it's a baptism scene. It's this kind of he just lets himself go and finds himself now born again in his home.

Um, and you know, and you know, it's pretty powerful because one of the things that has happened in the past few decades in terms of storytelling is that people are willing to tell that story, right? You know, the Europeans are evil. The Europeans have done evil things. That, you know, our civilization is guilty of all these sins. You know, the man, the European man has done all these evil things. And sometimes, I mean, most of the time, the accusations aren't wrong. That is European men, European civilization, the West, Christianity, in the name of Christianity, a lot of horrible things have been done, and we have to be able to take that the responsibility for that. But what's amazing about this movie, and it's because it's the story of Odysseus, you know, and he kind of had to tell it, or, you know, I think he's probably more aware than we might think, um, is that there's a way back. That the fact that you believe that you've done evil things and that you have done done things to to destroy the world doesn't mean that you should let the suitor take your house and your wife and your child. Doesn't mean that you should let strangers in your home take everything from you, and that you can see the evils that you've done, and you can repent from those evils, and you can try to come back home, and you can do the cleanup that has to be done at home as well. And that those two things are not don't have to contradict each other, and they only contradict each other in this weird ideological world in which we are, in which some people on the one hand want to completely whitewash Western civilization and and would like us to just stand in glory of all the things that we've done, even though we have done horrible things. Um, and on the other hand, there are people that are so enamored with the guilt and the the horrors that we have done that they think that we should just die, that we should basically accept to commit suicide of some kind. And I think that this story presents the two sides, you know, and I think that that's really the story we need. You know, the story that I'm seeing in this movie is is the story that I've been waiting for for decades and that I've been calling for. If you've watched my videos, I've said this is the story we need. The the story of the of the accepting responsibility, return of the father, both of those together, not one, not just the other. And a lot of the people that are that are attacking, you know, me on my interpretation, are the ones that would like us to say that Agamemnon was completely right. Agamemnon was just glory. Agamemnon was completely right to go and and destroy Troy and to destroy the city, uh, for the sake of a woman, or in this movie, for the sake of whatever, you know, financial gain and political gain he was going to get. But, you know, the Trojan story and the story of Odysseus has now been adapted and has been filtered through the Roman perspective, and then now the and the Christian perspective, and for that reason, I don't think we can have that perception anymore. I think that that the Nolan's uh presentation is far more ultimately Christian and subtle presentation, and it's not one that is conducive to weakness, despite what people say. The story ends with the slaughter of the suitors. The story ends with Odysseus getting his wife again, returning to his son, you know, making his son into the future king. This is, you know, despite everything that he's done. And I think that that's the story we need. And that's why I really enjoyed the movie. And not only did I enjoy it, but I think that uh, it's the way that it was presented, the way that the marketing emphasized so much of the diversity and the casting and everything. Uh, it is presenting this needed story to a public, uh, that might have been allergic to it, you know, and and people that politically might have found it difficult to care for a movie like that. But now, in some ways, funnily enough, because the right-wingers are so angry about it, you know, it's actually uh making that story land in the places where it never would have landed before. And so although in in though although I'm trying to help a lot of you right-wingers to be able to see what's really happening in the story, in the end, maybe we're grateful that you're so angry because I want everyone to to be able to embrace the story of the return of the father. And so this has been a long video. I rarely make long videos like this. I hope that, you know, my interpretations have helped you as I go through went through the actual details of the way that Nolan constructed the story, and uh, and uh, hopefully, yeah, hopefully you you liked it. And uh, don't forget, we are going to publish our own versions of these. We're going to do some beautiful versions of all of these myths, and then we're going to bring the story of heroism all the way to the place where it becomes the knight in the story of King Arthur. And so thanks everyone for your attention, and uh, talk to you very soon.