Transcription
So um, let's start with what the hell is going on? How's your um, stock portfolio, Sam?
Uh, well, this is looking expensive. That was the uh, I just looked at the uh, economist uh, cover story editorial, which was as bad as withering as you could imagine. Uh, they called the day of liberation the day of ruination. And um, yeah, I mean obviously I'm not an economist; I just know that uh, the vast majority of economists think this is an insane, self-inflicted wound. Uh, I guess time will tell, but it certainly seems that way. Uh, I mean, he's it's just crazy that one person's fixation on tariffs can accomplish this for us, man. I, you know, I I don't know who uh, really wanted this, but it's uh, we seem to be running a a global experiment uh, on the economy. And um, yeah, I mean, I, you know, could he be proven right in the end? I guess it's possible, but it's against the grain of of seemingly all of economic understanding of the last hundred years.
Well, that's interesting you said that because um, one of the things that we're hearing is this idea that you wait, you just have to wait, especially from the MAGA people that are, you know, now into buy the dip and um, this is all going to be okay. I mean, they were they were griping about the price of eggs right, and now and now and now they'd give anything to pay $12 for eggs again. Maybe that's the move um, but what do you I mean, it sounds like you actually have a a glimmer of optimism that u
No, no, zero optimism. Uh, I think this is it's very likely to be a disaster. I mean, Trump is a fake businessman, right? He is a fake business genius. He's a game show host uh, and the and somehow the country decided I he was not even a a prominent I was he was a famous for being famous, nearly fake real estate developer, right? Who just who was had a great talent for going bankrupt and losing other people's money and then getting sued and and and not paying his subs etc., etc., right? The least ethical businessman anyone's ever met and not a successful one. The irony is now he's probably a legitimate billionaire, at least for the next 5 minutes, because of the memecoin he sold to a credulous horde of people who uh, bought it simply to support him. And you know, now we have foreign governments that will be buying it to support him uh, in an exercise in corruption the likes of which we have never lived through, at least to my knowledge, in this country. Um, I mean, it's it's completely insane that this person's ideas about the economy are operative.
But is it conceivable that all the economists are wrong and that tariffs are going to work? Or that this thing that he could pull back from the brink in a way and look like a winner because he just shocked all of our allies and enemies simultaneously uh, with how irrational he could be? I mean, that's that's totally possible. I mean, the irony for me is that it seems like an economic catastrophe is the only thing that stands a chance of convincing his cult that they made a bad decision. And and I think it's legitimate to worry whether would even convince them in that case. I mean, a global depression might not convince the the 30% of Americans who are who are truly in the cult. But you know, among the people I know who voted for Trump who really, you know, imagined that he at at a minimum would steward the economy in ways that would would be if if not advantageous for all of humanity, advantageous for them, you know, I can imagine them recognizing that they we all made a bad decision or they made a bad decision in supporting him um, if there's a sufficient economic downturn. The painful irony for me is that that's not the reason to have recognized how insane it is to have promoted this guy to the highest position of responsibility of anyone in our society. I mean, what's insane is that just before he shuffled out to the Rose Garden to announce these lunatic tariffs, he was meeting with Laura Loomer about national security in the Oval Office. That's what's insane about the Trump administration, right? We have grifters and lunatics and conspiracy theorists advising the president on how to manage, you know, risk of nuclear annihilation uh, with Russia and China and our other adversaries. I mean, it's it's just, you know, I mean, and to say nothing of the fact that you've got RFK Jr. in there promoting anti-vaxers and firing, you know, half the staff of the FDA and and who knows who else he's going to fire um, it's madness, right? That's the thing to be agitated about, and and the fact that it there could be an associated price tag with it uh, is is all too foreseeable. But in my mind, if you're going to if you're going to come to your senses just because your 401k took a nose dive, you're still not you still haven't pulled your head out of your ass. This is this this is a disaster on a hundred fronts. And in two months, Trump has accomplished the unthinkable: he's ruined the reputation of our country uh, for perhaps for a generation. He's he's convinced our allies that they can't possibly trust us, right um, because they can't trust us, right? We we we elected a moral lunatic uh, to to the office, and he's rescinded all of our treaty obligations, effectively single-handedly, and he's he's acting like we lost a war with Russia, right? Like like last I looked we had won the Cold War. It seems like we've lost it now or or we switch sides at the 11th hour um, and now he's doing the bidding of of a dictator who um, seems to be in the the time we're recording this, seems to be playing him for a fool in the negotiations vis-à-vis um, the war in Ukraine. But um, who who knows how that's going to come out. But the fact that we have announced to the world that we no longer stand with freedom-loving democracies that aspire to to uh, live uh, the way we do in the developed world, we no longer stand with open societies against naked aggressors, we stand with aggressors because you know the the guy covered in orange face paint may want a hotel deal in Moscow one of these days. It's it's mortifying, right? That's the thing to be agitated about. And yeah, so it's it's it's going to be it's just going to be an extra level of annoyance to see an economic calamity convince people finally that maybe this was a bad decision.
I want to go back to the signal situation with Hegath to me, and I want to get your thoughts on this. To me, it just that was the the it was such an easy opportunity for integrity. They could have still lied; they could have said nothing. There was nothing classified, but there was a [ __ ] up, and we're looking into it, and one of us did this, and that shouldn't happen. That's embarrassing, and we we do better. We know better. We're as you said, anybody would have been fired for that. Why is that? And and I going back to the Trump prerequisites that you talked about, is it possible I'm purely making this up, although Griffin said that it was in the his movie, I guess the apprentice, that there's a a scene that he was talking about this? Is it possible that in in Trump's permeating, he tells everybody, listen, if you [ __ ] up, just double down. Like don't ever like the media will kill you; don't ever apologize; just [ __ ] lie, lie, lie, and stay through it and just believe your story, and you'll get through it, and I'll back you up, but no need to um, you know, admit that. And then on on on on that too, I mean, I saw what's her name uh, Tommy Lauren had come out who's uh, she's a right-wing or Republican um, pundit had come out and said, "Listen, guys, just take the [ __ ] L on this. This is easy; just take the L." Like why why couldn't they do that? Like what's why was that such an easy opportunity? And we watched them on the other side ask for the same thing. Why is that so hard to to have just one area where you could [ __ ] up and just say, "Okay, look, we we it wasn't confidential. You can again you keep your lie, but why is it why why couldn't they just I mean, I don't think these people all lack integrity. There must be something.
No, you can be sure they do. I mean, that that's what he's selected for. I mean, no one passes through that Steve with integrity. Um, it's uh, well, I mean, it's a a famous piece of advice that's that has been talked about. I'm sure I'm sure it's in actually uh, some of Trump's fake autobiographies that he didn't write um, where where Roy Cohen gave him the advice that you do never admit a mistake, right? I mean, that's that's the the the and you just you just lie uh, and change the subject and move on, but you never apologize, and you never admit admit that you were wrong about anything, even when it's obvious to everybody. Um, and it's part of, you know, the a generic, you know, authoritarian or or fascist playbook. I mean, it the lie, paradoxically, the harder the lies are to believe, I mean, really the impossible lie uh, functions uh, even better in this kind of environment because it it functions like a loyal loyalty test, right? Like this this is a this is code for being in the cult. And what it does is it nullifies everybody's efforts to even understand what is going on in the world. I mean, this is, you know, Steve Bannon's point of, you know, flooding the zone with with [ __ ] um, it was uh, Hannah Arendt's point in in the origins of totalitarianism though that the that you know, a sufficient amount of lying is not it's it's not it's not designed to get people to believe false these falsehoods; it's designed to get people to believe nothing, right? To get is to get them to declare epistemological bankruptcy so that they just they just realize, okay, who knows what's going on in the world? It's not my job to know what's going on in the world; I'm just going to be obedient and keep my head down. I'm just going to put a you know, sign in the window you claiming to believe uh, the big lie so that you know the no no one you know drags me out of my shop and and beats me to death on the sidewalk, right? I mean, like that that's where this heads when there are no checks on it, right? That's that's this is the the history of fascism um, and there's no question that Trump is is an authoritarian. He's he every is every inclination is to govern as an authoritarian, and his lying is is a principal part of that. I he just lies about everything, and he lies in ways that are clearly not meant to successfully deceive anyone. It's crucial to realize the difference, right? You know, when when Lance Armstrong is lying about doping, you know, in in the Tour de France, he is really trying not to get caught, right? He is he's just kind of doing the cognitive math, trying to remember what he said last time. You know, he's he's he's applying pressure to people covertly; he's trying to keep secret whatever he can keep secret, right? He's having conversations behind closed doors um, he is trying to get away with it, right? And to be believed, and then finally he he it all, you know, kind of smashes into a into um, an obstacle that he can't navigate, right? Which is you know, which is the fate of many frauds and many liars. That is not what Trump is doing, and that is that is not what Trump has done for decades now. He lies in ways that are totally transparent, right? He'll tell you a building he built is 10 stories taller than than it is in fact, right? And all you have to do is stand outside and count the floors. Um, it's all [ __ ] right, and it's it's it's this is a fascist style. Oh, I mean, it doesn't matter when you're a [ __ ] game show host, but when you bring it into a government, this is what this is why people are worried about fascism, right? Because this is the the fact that you can have half of a society claiming to believe the unbelievable is terrifying. I mean, this is so upside down. The the the the right-wing has been complaining about George Soros funding things right that are that are of interest to people on the far left that that seemed worth complaining about, but now look at what Elon is doing, right? Who's who's complaining about that? And what Elon is doing is so much more intrusive, so much more corrupt, so much more a matter of self-dealing. I mean, he's getting regulators fired who are regulating his companies, right? I mean, it's it's he's not even on the same part of the map as as what George Soros has been accused of. Um, and I'm not even sure that all of all the accusations leveled at Soros are true, but assuming they are true, it's nothing like what Elon is involved in. And you think there's no way to steal money on Elon for at least his intentions at all at this point?
Not at this point, because I know what he does when you point out his obvious errors, right? Errors that are really harming people's lives. He does nothing about it, right? He doesn't apologize; he doesn't correct them; he just tells you to go [ __ ] yourself, and he moves on. Um, he's if we ever have a you know, a full eruption of of of anti-Semitic intolerance in in America or or Western Europe again, right, right? If we have if if we really descend into something awful, much of the responsibility will be on Elon at this point because of what he's done on X, because how he's turned X into a a platform for the world's anti-Semites. And it's not just anti-Semitism; it's white supremacy; it's it's fascism; it's you know, every species of of of uh, you know, bigotry and awfulness. He has he has made it the preeminent platform for all of that, not just the not just the sentiment but the conspiracy thinking and the lying and the distortion of reality that that turbocharges all of it. And not only has he done that as a matter of of of you tuning the algorithm and and bringing the the worst actors back on with great fanfare, you know, bringing Nick Fuentes is back on and uh, Alex Jones and um, but he's done it in in the way he's personally interacted with these accounts and and and passed on uh, misinformation, right? You personally to two over 200 million followers uh, and when any any of this gets pointed out to him, he does not care, right? And so that's it's in that context that you know you have to see his his you know, Hitler salutes that are no one thinks are Hitler salutes, right? And I don't even think they're Hitler salutes, right? I it's like it's it's it's crazy to think that he really was uh, invoking that reference when he said when he you know when he zighed twice um, but the guy is always, you know, if only by accident, promoting Nazis and far-right lunatics and conspiracists and liars, right? He's not accidentally amplifying trans activists and far-left conspiracies and liars. So to ascribe it to error seems pretty far-fetched. I mean, the error he's never making is to criticize the Chinese Communist Party, right? If he if he if he's just a bull in a china shop making mistakes everywhere, well, then he would make errors of that kind. He never makes those errors, right? He's only amplifying right-wing intolerance um, and it's it's completely irresponsible; it's unforgivable at this point. Um, and yeah, so uh, you know, what what could people do in response? I mean, you know, the the vandalism and violence directed at Tesla is obviously the wrong thing to be doing. I mean, one, it's illegal; two, it victimizes innocent people who just bought a Tesla because they thought it was a great car, and and it is a great car, right? It's like I say, just think of think of someone who stretched to buy you know, a nice car um, and love the car until yesterday, and now people are are hurling abuse at them or you know, keying their car or worse, right? It's awful, right? Like just that's a you know, and whoever is doing that, I mean, these are almost certainly far-left dummies um, it's totally counterproductive. But what what is would not be counterproductive is a full-on boycott of Tesla, right? That would be you know, in so far as that's happening, I think that's an entirely good thing. It sounds like it's happening in Western Europe. I would love to see uh, Tesla stock get beaten down to a plausible you know, price-to-earnings ratio, which is one-tenth of what of it of its current value um, because I think that's you know, I think that would be a a totally appropriate ethical response to to to what Elon is doing in the world, right? I mean, and it seems to be the only signal that could conceivably matter to him or anyone close to him, right? I mean, they if you're going to imagine what it would take to reign him in, you know, to have his board of directors one of his board of directors reign him in, it would only be something like that. And um, I'm not even sure he would care at this point. He's got obviously many other irons in the fire beyond Tesla, right? He's got SpaceX; he's got other you know, he'll be he he'll be spectacularly wealthy even if Tesla goes to zero. But um, it's still it would it it's the only me it's the only lawful mechanism we have to resist uh, his his obviously unethical and I think probably unlawful behavior at this point.
Well, I want to talk about somebody who's responsible for that in large part and somebody who may have gotten Trump elected and somebody who I actually believe that you do believe has good intentions and is doing well and means well, and I wonder I know that your friendship and I'll tell you who it is in a second, but one of the things we're thinking about is would you ever have Rogan on your podcast?
Yeah, I mean, you know, I I it hasn't occurred to me frankly.