Transcription
Guys, welcome back to another show. It's Wednesday, so you know what it is. I'm here with Cena and Plan C. Cena, how you doing today?
Hi, everyone. Doing great. How about you, Plan C?
Yeah, doing really well. Um, yeah, it's good to see Bitcoin moving up just a little bit. It's amazing how fast the sentimental change on social media. Just a few thousand dollar difference and all of a sudden, you know, everyone's happy or at least temporarily everyone's feeling better. So, yeah, we'll get into some charts and we can kind of assess where we're at. So, but yeah, sentiment, I mean, we've seen it a million times. It can just change on a dime um with Bitcoin.
Exactly. Super well said. And by the way, guys, remember this is going to be a weekly segment, so shorter but more frequent. So, remember to demolish that like button and subscribe to the channel to support our journey. But, Cena, what do you have for us? Because indeed, the price is moving.
Yeah. So, I decided to do a poll exactly 24 hours before and it just ended about how bullish or bearish people are feeling and we got about 1,600 votes. Uh, pretty good. I think it's a good representative number that is showing 48% are bullish. So, less than half of the people are bullish. Typically in crypto like people are overly bullish, right? So, I think 48 is not a normal number. Uh, 40% are neutral and about 12% are bearish.
Plan C, do you because you do these often too, right? Do you know like what's the average bullish uh rating? Because this is probably the first time I'm doing a poll with large numbers that specific breakdown as far as like neutral, bearish, and bullish. What I've typically done in the past is I'll say like wherever we're at, say we're at like 110,000, I'll say um which number will we reach first? Like 115 or or 105 or something. The only thing about doing a poll like that, I mean, you pretty much have to do a short duration like instead of I think it's useful to do even a 4-hour poll or an 8-hour poll because the if the price is changing that'll skew the poll. And so I I realized that last time I ran the poll. I'm like, "Okay, I ran this for 24 hours, but the price kind of moved up and down a bit." So, uh, shorter window for the poll. But yeah, I I I'm playing around with them. I think it is interesting if you get a few thousand people kind of sharing their views, but typically I've seen it go either direction. I've seen kind of extreme sentiment in either direction. If we if we just I find um if I run a poll and then uh say the price does move up and then I run another pull, you know, it'll typically be biased towards bullishness like that. There'll be a lot of residual bullishness that from the last time just that small move up. So it seems to be very biased based on like our most recent move with with sentiment. I mean I guess that's kind of how it works.
Yeah, I would say but it can go in either direction. And I haven't seen necessarily like an extreme bullish bias. I I do agree with you though. There is kind of a tendency I think with most people that are in Bitcoin to have that bullish bias especially during a bull market. Right. So, uh, yeah, it's it's hard to quantify exactly to answer your question, but I would say there's definitely that bullish bias typically. And one thing I'll I'll say confirming your point is I did see about one to 200 one to 200 new votes came in and they were more bullish than last night. Just after price began rising we're getting uh slightly more bullish responses but still it's I think uh I think I'll keep doing this just to have historical results I would guess on on normal days we will have you know larger larger values so that's interesting it's a I think it's a good sign to see you know there's at least a balance people are not overly bullish here and that's that's generally good and typically cycle tops happen when too many people are bullish Right? If you go back to the last two cycle tops, you will see maximum bullishness at the top and and so this is all good. This is all good news that some of that pressure, some of that excitement has been uh taken out of the market and people are also positioned.
I mean I mean it's not just this one, right? I've been feeling sentiment going down the whole month very rapidly. And part of the reason for that is is a lot of people are down really really bad. Even though Bitcoin is not down that much, but there there are a lot of people stuck in altcoin trades or BTC treasury companies that have been bleeding very very terribly since January. Like Micro Strategy peaked, I guess in November at 550 plus. Now it's probably down to 300 something. And people were not only buying that, they were also levering up on it using options and all sorts of u leverage ETFs. And and too many people were hyping this thing up and they've been losing money the whole year. And for that reason, I can totally see that how damaging this sideways or bleeding uh downward action has been for their portfolios. And when this happens, even like a 10% drop in Bitcoin makes people extremely uh you know gloomy and unhappy and so on. So that's the only thing that explains this uh really negative sentiment like so many people are calling for the top of the cycle. Um some some glass node charts were we were discussing last week they say that and a lot of it just feels like you know price is down. So all everybody's bringing their bearish analysis out of the closet. And so that's one thing I wanted to mention. I will keep tracking this. The lower this goes, the better. So, um, if after the price rise, if you, for example, get to 118 and this thing suddenly jumps substantially, that's not going to be great, right? So, we want much more methodical, but you can also measure the same thing much more quantitatively using the funding rate and derivatives, right? So, you can you can see how crazy the traders have become and from there you can get a really good measure of sentiment. Uh the other thing I want to mention is uh our quanta model that Lansancy and I have been working on for I guess it's two years probably and this puts us at sort of the middle of the range uh very close to close to median but much more closer to 60th percentile and this is this has been a level where Bitcoin has been kind of stuck the whole the whole last two years. This green region is marking onethird of time. So the lower part is quantile 33. The top the top part of the green region is quantile 66. Meaning Bitcoin has historically spent a third of its time in the green region. A third in the purple and a third above in those three colors. So it seems like that green region is kind of keeping us stuck for the last two years. We we touch the top of it, then we touch the bottom, then we go try to break above, and then we go back. Try to break above, then we go back. Kind of like Bitcoin is uh has a different behavior. Instead of going all the way to extremes and to low extreme, it only goes up to uh to the top of the third region to to the to the top of the mid midsection and the bottom of the midsection and we kind of stuck in there which is uh uh also is is growing, right? So we are growing but the risk is not growing. Like two years ago we had the same risk metric on the quantile chart. Now we have the same thing except the price is way higher. And I think this is this is great. If you just keep doing this instead of getting into a bubble that takes away a lot of your ability to invest. So price is already too high, right? And a crash that keeps a lot of people damaged. Instead of that, we're getting much more methodical price action. So if you if you zoom in closer, you could also see uh the same the same pattern again. And and if you're stuck at the same risk level, we are probably looking at 130 140 by the end of the year. And and this is with no hype added on top. Just if we if we stay at the same risk level, just follow the long-term trend. That's where we go.
Very interesting that some onchain metrics show that the we get a downward shock and the market actually goes goes down quite a bit based on some onchain metrics and short-term holder cost basis. 92 is the the first uh like one of the most important places we might touch if we go into the bearish direction. And that's exactly actually what we have on the quantile model at the lower at the at the midsection the bottom bottom part of that 92 is by the end of the year is probably the lowest uh we are going to touch if the market behaves normally and of course above that uh anything above 140 130 by the end of this year is entering into the excitement bubble area historically and so let's see what what happens and I think the regime is changing so far we've had a lot of trouble uh because the uh tariffs throw a wrench into the market and that caused uh the Fed to be scared about inflation and that spooked the markets and also recession and so on. But we had to give the market some time to absorb all this. This is where actually yeah we we were actually we were completely on on on path in the yellow region. We were going up and suddenly tariffs brought us down. And uh if you were following us, we have been predicting a V-shaped recovery all along uh because because based on our analysis of how tariffs typically work and that happened and now we're stuck at the recovery zone but somehow sentiment is terri terribly low. So um but moving on uh you can also look at a power law model which gives us um 108 as the average price and again for whatever reason that average price seems to be very important for the last two years we have been either going slightly above that and then slightly below that. So following this trend line has been very helpful. Then we have also had a bunch of a bunch of crashes that ended right on the trend line. Same thing recent crash ended right there. And I use this 108 sometimes as a fair value metric. This is just average with zero amount of hype added on top. But if you want to look at a fair value metric, our VPLI measure volatility adjusted power law metric that also puts us as 53 out of 100 which is a neutral valuation. Again reflecting the fact that we are very close to our to our fair value metric.
All right. The last thing I'll mention is uh about our we published a new bitcoin intelligence report on Monday and again this is a weekly publication you can that you can sign up and we uh offer analysis on bitcoin onchain macro liquidity and all that our recent report I just want to highlight one thing very important signal you know sometimes when you get the data from onchain data or or macro it's mixed but last week the macro macro trend became very very clear and uh we just got a few more data points today that also confirms that. So I just want to highlight that the job market is going in the wrong direction. Uh we had really really negative a really really weak job job non-farm payroll employment increase and that was three sigma below what forecasters had predicted. So they were expecting about 75,000 jobs to be added to the economy. Last month we only added 22,000 but that was not the ca that was not the only problem. We also revised the prior months down and uh this was the second revision to uh the June number. So the June number initially was reported to be 133 then it was revised down to four only 14,000 jobs and then another revision down to negative 13k. So this was the uh first month in uh three four years that we have a negative job growth. So um very concerning right in Jul July was uh mildly revised up from 73 to 79 this is not so problematic kind of aligned what with what you expect from neutral uh rate overall if you also add up all the revisions in the last year that's about 1 million jobs. So we all these labor reports have been wrong by a million jobs uh so far. So that's uh these things typically happen when the economy is changing direction and uh and typically our reports come with videos and the in this video I I summarize the macro section and I also mentioned that generally when the economy is like a huge ship when that is changing direction all these revisions actually amplify the reason for that is a lot of these economic models have a smoothing factor in them so they try to force the data to be more smooth and not have so much volatility. That's so they extrapolate the recent trend. But if the trend is changing, a lot of that extrapolation actually ends up making the data more inaccurate. That's not a good sign. If you're getting increased revisions, that's not great. And if you look at the last three months, we have barely added any jobs. One month negative, one month pretty much nothing, one month average. And actually the month before that also pretty much nothing. So this last part, you know, we had a slowdown in the job market from the COVID highs. Then we had a soft landing period more or less kind of stable job market. Now we have stepped down. We are almost back to like zero job creation. This is going to send the Fed into panic mode. But the question is how would this matter for Bitcoin, right? Is a this is a recessionary sign. But is that going to damage all the stock market and everything else or is it going to help? I think the way this can happen is once well first of all these are not outright recessionary numbers, right? So it's but it's in that direction. But as long as it stays mildly in recessionary, I think what we will have is we will have short-term concern and worries uh and people would take money out of stocks and maybe Bitcoin and other things on the margin and move it into bonds. But very shortly after that, the Fed will start panic like on se on September 17th, they're probably going to cut 25 basis point. But then there's now a lot of talk that maybe 50 basis points is also on the table. Odds are increasing and a few you know a few weeks back one cut this year was was a possible scenario. Now it's like many many cuts. So this will start to amplify uh amplify growth and money supply. So I think initially we might get an emotional psychological reaction, but right after that a fundamental increase in money supply will show up and all the deficit spending from the government and the short-term bills that the Treasury are issuing, they're all going to support liquidity. So even if we we get some of weeks of uh weakness or uh decline, even if we do get that, that's a really good buy opportunity and it's going to end pretty quickly cuz as the job market slow starts slowing down, that is a nogo zone. That's a absolute panic mode. The Fed has no option other than throwing liquidity at anything and everything. And because their liquidity doesn't work well, it just goes into many different areas that they don't want. it's it can't do surgical. So instead they have to throw liquidity at everything all the investment assets like they did at COVID they were pumping the housing market which really didn't need any of that. Uh but they just they just just throw money everywhere so that some of that money a small portion of that actually ends up in productive economy and generates jobs and takes us out of recession but then a lot more of that it gets absorbed into liquidity sponges like gold and much more importantly Bitcoin. As long as this is not a like terrible damage to the economy and it's like a worrying slowdown, I think this is this is going to be good news. This is one of the cases where bad news becomes good news, right? Bad economic news ends up being good news and partly why we also see a good price action today. But u generally I think we should be back at the uptrend in the next few weeks at the moment we absorb this psychological pressure here. So yeah, that's where we are. Economies is slowing. inflation is not going up as fast as people thought and everything is getting ready for a wave of liquidity from the fed.
I will just maybe mention that macro is not the only thing we cover. We also look at onchain data. Uh this is covered by Vizart a senior glass node analyst one of the top onchain analysts in the market today. So we have a detailed report on what's going on on chain and we also have a detailed review of liquidity macro and central banks from Renault who's a expert in this field. So if you like you can sign up here and or even try our reports for free and enjoy enjoy our weekly reports.
One of the things you were speaking to was just the the poll you did on sentiment and just you know it's interesting because say the you know roughly speaking around the price we're at we're seeing you know about half the market being bullish on this poll. If you ran that same poll at the beginning of this year it would have been like 90% bullish you know and the price was like around you know few thousand less maybe 108 or something. So, it just shows how we've become accustomed to these prices with the sideways action over the last year and all these OGs selling their coins and and just all the reasons you mentioned why we've kind of had these false starts in the true euphoric uh part of the cycle. So, u this kind of has dampened uh the bullishness at times or at least like we've never like fully gone uh full into the euphoric uh period. So sentiment, it's just interesting how the same price, you know, it's a decent amount of time obviously, like we're talking like eight months apart, but to see the sentiment on the same price go from probably like 90 plus% down or at least 80 down to say, you know, 50 range. So significant change there. And then going back to the quantile model, you know, briefly, uh, where we're at right now relative to where we've been in past cycles. So, if you go back four years, you know, because we're, you know, people like to talk about the four-year cycle, uh, we were already at the beginning of 2021, we were, you know, well into the orange and basically gone into the red in in the first few months of the year. So, we have never really gone like you were showing, you know, yellow, orange or red at all so far this cycle. Uh, whereas the previous cycle, we had already broke well into orange and red and we're kind of bouncing around in that uh in that those bands for the entirety of 2021. So yeah, this cycle does uh there's a lot of reasons, you know, not just this model, but other models to indicate that this could be an extended cycle. And then going to um your your point about the the macro stuff, you know, the Fed, most people probably already know this, but just for people that might not, I mean, inflation and and um you know, to do with jobs, right? Like these are their two mandates. These are the two big factors that the the Fed is supposed to, you know, supposedly their mandates supposed to take into consideration. and how significant this these um the this jobs report is because they've been you know trying to get inflation down now for quite a while and with the quantitative tightening and now this is their other mandate and this has to be addressed and and we've already seen like you already said you know the significant change in the sentiment and the and the and the percentage likelihood that we're going to see cuts for the rest of the year. So, um I think it's like over 90% probability or even 95 or something that we're going to get at least a 25 basis point cut, you know, in another week and then there's even a probability we'll get uh you know 50 basis points.
Yeah, I think that's a great question. So, u imagine the three of us are one economy, right? We can come together in a house or at a workplace and if we could just be lazy and do nothing, right? So, that would put us at uh 0% uh employment and 100% unemployment. The three of us will have a lot of potential that we are not realizing. What they can do in Keynesian economics is if they can take control of money supply. If they throw a bunch of money at us, we will have more money and we'll try to spend it and then me spending motivates you to do some more work because there's money in it. So you earn money and then you then spend your more money and then somebody else would have to. So that this the cycle of money can potentially if the economy is under the uh potential the increase in money supply can stimulate the economy right but it has a limit like once all three of us are working uh completely at our limit right if they throw a lot more money at us we don't have any capacity right and same thing happens in the economy companies just have a certain level of productivity like if you drop a lot more money at consumers nothing's going to happen because all the factories are working at the maximum capacity and everybody that could be employed is employed and so on. So they define something like the uh you know uh capacity of the economy once we reach the capacity you increase money supply more than that that increases inflation. So that's why when when you see inflation you the central banks take a step back reduce liquidity and and then uh supposedly doing that should not drop the uh labor and should not drop employment because you simply remove the excess liquidity and employment uh shouldn't be hurt but be below that like if money supply is too low nobody has money if you don't have money you don't work so they nobody gets good financing so things won't happen and then you see a breakdown in the labor market. And the problem with that is it's going to actually spiral, get into a spiral and accelerate over time because you know you begin firing a few people and that's your problem. But suddenly that becomes another company's problem because all those people are somebody else's customers and if they don't earn money they're not going to spend. If they don't spend the second company doesn't earn more money and then they have to lay off their workers and then now you have two batches of people that were laid off and sentiment is down. Nobody's spending and actually even people when they don't earn money they double down they they reduce uh spending substantially because they also they also get scared about future so they would scale back a lot and then news spreads everybody now starts feeling that things are worrisome so even people who do have jobs start spending less so money just goes away money stops moving and then suddenly a lot more companies have to lay off right that's what central banks are really worried about and and and when you get uh when you start to see jobs going down that's when you kind of feel like it's already it's already at the precipice right so then they have to quickly go back down like actually last month Powell in the me in in his Jackson Hall speech he said that if we start to see jobs going down the problem is we worry about a nonlinear accelerating drop and we could be back at our low lowest levels again pretty quickly so that's why he was saying that now we think you know balance of risks are more toward the labor economy. But general economists, they kind of see inflation and jobs in a balancing act. You stimulate too much, you it leads to inflation. You stimulate too little, it leads to labor weakness. So they try to find the right balance in there. They don't know how much money there is. They can't really influence money supply very efficiently. So all these things are in inaccurate, but they try to do something at least the two mandates, right? So, but it's unemployment uh like so basically they're they're going for low inflation and they're going for high uh employment, right? That's kind of their two main mandates and these are all metrics and indicators that they can look at to kind of get the lens supposedly and balance everything, right? So, this is an important report, but unemployment is ultimately uh very a very important metric as well, right? Like the percentage of unemployment and we saw that obviously during co it went through the roof and that was a big part of the reason why they they printed so much money. Yeah.
Anyway, so so all signs are basically pointing to rate cuts coming for the rest of this year and um like you said, there's going to be probably some initial uh bearishness or or risk off associated with that, but then that'll probably flip around pretty quick once they start printing.
Two polls that I did within the last week, and these are kind of evergreen polls, so they're not really going to be affected by like short-term price moves within that 24-hour period. And they got a good amount of uh votes, about 3,000 votes. So, you know, this is a question that I think a lot of people are wondering, right? So, everyone has their two cents on it, but um you can see there's still a heavy bias towards the four-year cycle. I mean, it's it's roughly I mean, at times it's gone anywhere between 50 to 75%. The 75% were bullseye was running more towards the beginning of this year. I've run this poll a couple times over the course of this year and we're starting to see less people kind of thinking the cycle is going to be at the end of this year. So, that's the trend. the trend is uh more people I guess you could say capitulating on the four-year cycle already um because they're kind of like hey you know there's not much time left in the year. We haven't really seen you know the the numbers we thought we'd get to. So but still it's still significant you know roughly speaking say 50% based on this poll still believe in the four-year cycle and and I mean another 20% think first quarter of next year. So you could still argue that is the four-year cycle even if we peak f first quarter of next year. So that's a a significant amount. you know, you're looking at, you know, 65 2/3 you could say people thinking that we're going to peak either end of last quarter of this year or first quarter of next year. And then you still have, you know, a percentage that think, okay, maybe later than that even, right? You could say the rest of the people are kind of like, okay, extended cycle or no cycle. So, it's about a third that are kind of extended cycle to no cycle and then about twothirds that are are still kind of four year cycle. I mean Q one next year like I said you could argue that's still four year cycle or whatever.
It's interesting comparing to the one that Cena has done. I think my two Satoshi's are at this point I think if you are bearish on Bitcoin you are either holding altcoin not knowing how Bitcoin behaves or potentially you dislike the asset right because if you've seen a couple of cycles you know that this is the best time right to perform like October, November, December we know right? So the issue I think we are seeing is most people are maybe stuck in altcoins and they are calling for altcoin season which we've not seen yet or maybe we've seen in parts. I think it depends on when you run those pools like you guys have said because if the market is pumping people are coming back into Twitter into YouTube into social media to see what's happening whether the market is boring quotes and is going sideways people are going away and then you have only people they either are invested and or under so altcoin holders or maybe Bitcoin holders. So I think the data makes sense and this is why I think by the way that the market is doing what it's doing just because of this reason because if everyone is expecting these four year cycles to repeat that means that a huge amount of people are waiting to take profit towards the end of the year. Hence why probably the price is going to go sideways boring sideways and then when everyone is distracted it's going to pop maybe.
Yeah. And and this was done five days ago right? So, I mean, the price was down a little bit more then. The sentiment was probably just slightly less than it is now.
Yeah, I totally agree with actually and I wanted to to add to this both of what you said. I totally agree. The old coins play a huge role here and the treasury companies depending on when people got in. Maybe they got in at a high MNAV. Yeah, I'm I'm definitely in that camp. Like I do think and I kind of forget that sometimes because I'm just holding Bitcoin that like a lot of people do have other types of exposure to Bitcoin that's that's higher leverage and depending on when they got those entries you know they might not be feeling that great and again lots of people hold alts they haven't performed well and in all previous cycles that bullish euphoric sense that because you can't separate that like when people have alts and Bitcoin you know their overall sentiment towards the market is going to be affected by the combination right to a large extent and so all previous cycles you know we had significant altcoin rallies and most likely some people were holding some altcoin that did a crazy X and and they felt super euphoric from that. So yeah, I do think that's a huge factor and this cycle has been Bitcoin dominated for the most part and um it hasn't even that hasn't been what a lot of people expected. Their expectations were pretty high just because of all previous cycles and the X's we've seen. Yeah.
So this one again similar similar kind of a poll uh saying a similar thing kind of uh cementing the fact that around 50% of people kind of still believe at least as of now. It could change within the next couple weeks or months depending on what we see with price action. We'll see big shifts. We'll probably I'll probably rerun this type of a poll just to see kind of in track what people are thinking.
200 week SMA it's used in a lot of different markets traditional markets. It's it's an important indicator for kind of overall bull bear trends and things. So, a lot of a lot of macro does use it and traditional investors do use it. It's not as big a deal, I would say, in the Bitcoin space, but it's it's a metric that I think is worth looking at. So, I mean, it's sitting right now at 102 102,000. So, we're well above the uh the simple uh 200 day simple moving average. And I mean, you can see when we when we got above that, that was kind of when the the bottom of the bare market was, right? If you go back to the uh the lows just after 16,000 there, you know, we were we were below the 200 day SMA for quite a while. And then when we broke above that, we've kind of been staying above it with slight dips below it pretty much since the lows the last 3 years. It's one metric. You could also look at the short-term holder cost basis is another good metric that we want to be above. We talked about that last week. You know, that's sitting around 111,000 right now. So, we're basically above the the short-term cost basis, the 200 day SMA, and there's a number of these other types of metrics, you know, 20week moving average, these sorts of things. So, all all signs are that we're still in a bull market. I mean, I I I get how people can have like these swings in sentiment, but I think like if you if you just take an aggregate of TA onchain and you're looking at all these different things, like you can definitely make an argument that the peak is in and the cycle's over. But I think it's really I think the majority of metrics when you look at the data are still pointing to we haven't seen the true peak or who knows, this time's different.
This short-term um moving average works well because it also tracks short-term holders, right? So if uh as as that number goes up uh if you overlay the 200 day moving average with short-term holder cost basis, they pretty much track each other a lot because the also the way we define short-term holders is people who have been investing in 180 last 180 days, right? So this kind of captures the behavior of a lot of pe a lot of the people who bought in at the recent last 6 months and and so it's very predictive. It's very helpful in in looking at the cycles and or cyclical moves around a trend, right? And when we separate too much from that line, uh it shows that a lot of people have a ton of profits. So the price has ran faster than the recent buyer cost basis. And so that puts a lot of people or kind of motivates a lot of people to sell and however once everybody does that selling the the price comes back down to their cost basis and so there's there's little money left so then the sell pressure stops and we go back up. So very interesting ways to look at data and have some predictive value in it. In my opinion we we want to see us the goldilock zone you could say for for kind of grinding up and and higher prices and sustainable bull run. You could define it as being above like the short-term cost basis, 200 day SMA, but not too far above it, right? So, it's it's you want to be above it, but you don't want to extend too far like Cena was saying. The interesting thing about the short-term cost basis is it's actually a weighted moving average is a way to look at it. So, it's a similar to the 200 day SMA. The 200 day SMA is essentially a 200 day, you know, simple moving average. So, it's just taking every single day's closing price and it's it's making a simple moving average from that. But there's no weighted component to that. with the onchain cost basis metrics. One of the reasons why they're so cool and powerful is it's actually a weighted simple moving average. You could argue it's it's kind of one way of looking at it. So, it's factoring in what was the volume on each of those days and that's how you're getting an aggregate of the of the cost basis. So, it's really powerful and between those two metrics like Cena was saying good indicators of of where we're at within in a bull or bare market and like like I already said, you know, above it but not too far above it. So, we're we're at a great uh point right now where we're above both of those, just not not very far extended. So, there's not a high, you know, incentive to sell all all your coins based on profit, but you're also not in too much pain where you're going to, you know, the short-term holders, they're not going to start dumping coins on us. So, it's it's a good place right now, uh, actually going into the rest of the year. I think we need to buckle up because we will see some volatility come here and I cannot believe we just smash 114 and fear and greed is like the market is neutral. It's just unbelievable. So, I'm bullish than ever and I'm glad we decided to do these weekly calls because I think the market is going to be way volatile coming forward. So, thank you both guys. Honestly, always a pleasure having you board on the show. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thanks for having us as always guys. Thank you so much for watching and we'll see you on the next one.