Transcription
Rabbi David Weise, thank you so much for being with us here today and sharing your perspective in these very important times. You've been to not only Gaza, you've been to Lebanon, you've been to Iran, you've been throughout the Middle East. As a rabbi, how was your experience visiting these countries?
Yes, well, first, with the help of the Almighty, I pray to the Almighty to bestow upon me His truth and wisdom, that I may be worthy of sanctifying His name and bring peace to the world, inshallah. And assalamu alaikum. Yes, I have been to these parts of the world, thank God. And my experience was a blessing. Uh, people are so friendly, so concerned that I should feel comfortable and not feel that I'm out of place. And I, that's not, not only me, but my colleagues.
And on the ground in Gaza, can you maybe share some experiences that you had interacting with Palestinians?
Each and every uh day was an an experience that really should be recorded and repeated. But I think we speak about going to visit, that I went to visit with, after one of the Operation Cast Lead, I think it was called, after the bombing, the uh, the just horrific uh attacks, uh, where they slaughtered families. And um, I went to Zeitoun, it was the Samuni family, where it's like around 30 members of one family was murdered. Uh, today, unfortunately, you hear this constantly, all members of a family are just killed in one bombing. But we went there and there were some uh, the members left over from the family, and we went and cried with them and uh, um, and they embraced us. They, um, and even though they, we are Jewish, yet they understood to differentiate between a Jew and the ones who are attacking them. That it's designed, the state of Israel, they, they understood. And um, they showed warmth and friendship. And uh, exceptionally, the children. Children who really technically shouldn't know or, you know, understand the, the difference, yet they embraced us. And we found this. We went to visit the hospitals and the, um, orphanages, and we only found friendship, warmth, and uh, a yearning that we should could be together in peace.
And meanwhile, when you're finding this friendship on the ground in Gaza, and in the demonstrations here, when people tell you to go to Gaza and create this fear, uh, for Jewish people to be in the Middle East, what would you say to them?
Yeah, this is unfortunately, this is part of the Zionist uh, uh, uh, method of, uh, turning the narrative on its head, as if, uh, there's a conflict, a religious conflict, that Jews and Muslims weren't living together, and there were, we weren't enjoying, uh, the coexistence of helping each other. So they, they, they, they turn to us and they say, "Huh, go to Gaza, go to Iran, go to these places, let's see if you will be." And and so, but we, we, we've heard this so many times, so many years, that we know that if there's an opportunity to, uh, to sit down and talk slowly and dissect the issue, then they would have to agree that they've been duped. But unfortunately, the general, uh, system is that Zionism, uh, has a, uh, a brainwashing, uh, system that around the world, that they, they, they, they vilify the victims, the people of Palestine, and the Muslims in general, as if there's an ingrained hate to Jews, and we cannot coexist. And that creates panic and fear that the, that the people in Israel. Now, this is, I'm not condoning that, obviously, and I don't, it doesn't justify it. But they're so fearful, they're panicked that they're going to be murdered like by the Nazis. It's just, it's, it's tragic, it's false. And the opportunity doesn't lend itself through the mainstream media to cl, to clarify and to, uh, and to explain the truth that this is totally apparently false, that we were living together as history attests, and we should be living, we can live together, and everybody wants to live together in peace.
Yes, and we certainly want to give you an opportunity to clarify all of this, because your voice is very important. Not only are you a rabbi, you are a descendant of Holocaust survivors, right? Your grandparents, uh, perished in Germany during the Nazi Holocaust. Can you describe how that fuels, uh, your activism today?
Well, my, uh, grandparents were killed in Auschwitz. My father-in-law, uh, was in Auschwitz and was in the death march out of, all of blessed memory. Um, they died because they were Jews. And as our all our spiritual leaders, the rabbis, uh, keep on, uh, insisting, that this does not give us the right, uh, to occupy another people, to take the land from them. But on the contrary, we, uh, uh, we, we are required, uh, to, to see to have the Palestinian people have their peace, and they should not be, uh, subjugated to this, to a, a similar oppression. We are Jews. This is the requirement of a Jew. And, um, we hope that, and that would be the merit for our grandparents who died in Auschwitz. This is something that the, the community that suffered, um, knows the suffering has to be used for, for, for justice and good. And it's unfortunately again, being turned on its head. It's being used, the Holocaust, as a tool, uh, to justify, uh, more murder and killing of innocents. This is against God. It's satanic. And with God's help, we won't be silent.
And, Rabbi, what would you, uh, say to those who conflate, uh, being anti-Zionist with being anti-Semitic?
Well, we, we, this, first of all, is clearly a misnomer. It's clearly, uh, a, a falsehood. Because just as there is a difference between day and night, between black and white, Judaism and Zionism, never the twain shall meet. It is the diametric opposite. Judaism is to be subservient to God, to, uh, serve God, uh, and to accept that, uh, God protects us. We don't need a, we don't, uh, count on the gun to protect us. And we are forbidden since the destruction of the Temple to occ, to to kill, to steal, or to re-establish a Jewish state. So, when, even in an empty land, an uninhabited land, and we are required to show gratitude to people who did us good, which is for hundreds and hundreds of years, the Muslims and Arabs and the Ottoman Empire did us so in every facet, in every way. You turn this, uh, coin. Zionism is a, a distinct, uh, uh, contradiction to Judaism. Jud, Zionism is a base nationalism to have a piece of land. It has to vilify the people who are kind to us, take the land away from them, ignoring that God says, don't attempt to re-establish a Jewish land. In every aspect, in every facet, it's contradictory, unacceptable to Judaism. Uh, the fact that the rabbis and the religious communities around the world, the very religious communities, invariably from Argentina to US, to UK, to Canada, to Jerusalem, talmud, they are all the very religious communities are opposed not only to what's happening in Gaza today, which everybody's common sense, common decency, uh, deems this unacceptable, but even the, the root, the, uh, ratification, the creation of a so-called Jewish state was immediately opposed by all the Torah authorities. So it's, when one stands up and says, uh, I'm opposed to, to this state, you're not anti-Jewish. The rabbis demand this. But, and the rabbis who did oppose this, if they were living on, to their misfortune, under the rulership of the Zionists, they were brutally beat and arrested. And even people around the world, as we Jews in the United States, we get, uh, death threats and we get attacked physically. And, and, and recently, we're seeing a lot more of that.
At the demonstrations, you mentioned that, um, uh, religious Jews in Jerusalem and Israel get attacked, but we're seeing similar things here. While the police does protect people, we're seeing Zionist mobs getting violent, throwing bricks. We've seen, can you describe those situations that you see this violence here?
Yeah, they, they walk around with this aura that as if they're protecting themselves from Nazis. I mean, it, it is, it is an insult, as I say, to common sense. The very us, the religious communities that are upholding the Torah, that are peaceful people, we stand out and we demonstrate, and we get brutally attacked together with the Pal, Palestinian, uh, students and others who are peaceful people standing out there and making comments, making a statement. And we are viciously physically attacked. And somehow, being that the, uh, given is that the ones who are supporting Zionism, they're protecting the Jewish people, and the ones who are opposing them are anti-Semitic. So it takes a while, even for the police and the, and the press, to, uh, to, uh, to admit to recognize that the ones who are standing there and speaking up for the people of Palestine are the victims. They are automatically look at us with a suspicious eye, as if with some wild, um, inhumane people. And it's almost that we, uh, uh, we, uh, uh, deserve to be attacked. And if somebody picks up a hand just to protect himself, they'll snap a picture. He's putting out his hand to protect that he's as if he's attacking. This is, I'm, I'm talking not something that happened one day, I'm talking about years of experience, and especially since October 7th, that we are really bitterly brutally attacked as Jews. So I like to say that, I mean, who is the anti-Semite? Who is the personification of anti-Semitism, if not the Zionist state of Israel, that is killing Palestinians, beating and, and killing and assassinating rabbis and Jews, and causing a hate, a rift between Jews and Muslims? They exacerbate this hate that that was never there. So who should be deemed, what should be the textbook trans, um, uh, definition of anti-Semitism, if not the Z state of Israel? And add to that, how many soldiers of the Israel died for their cause? That is a, a baseless, is a, a selfish, flawed cause of a nationalism of taking the land from others. It's not the religion. So they, they're creating death of Jews. Who is anti-Semitic? It's an insult to common sense to refer to the ones who stand up and plead for the lives of children, the ones who stand up and plead that they should leave the Jews alone, that these are anti-Semites. It's just beyond words, and it's criminal for the ones who, who, who prefer this, this charge on those who, on, on the ones who are pleading for Palestine, because it's like a lazy way of of shirking responsibility when you, when people, when people are being bombed in Palestine, and all, and, and people are pleading that you should, um, study the case and understand what's happening, and say, "Oh, they're anti-Semitic." Dismissing them, anti-Semitic, so you're just shirking the responsibility of understanding what's happening here, and letting us, the Jewish people, who are, who are Jews, and who are labeled, and are obvious Jews, when we go to the airports, we ever go around the world, people conflate the two, and they say, "Oh, he's a Jew, so he's supporting the state of Israel." As everybody says, it's anti-Semitic. It's one of the, so I get held responsible for the actions of this nationalist movement that's that's actually going against God and the Torah. So it's, it's, it's a criminal, uh, abuse of the word anti-Semitism.
And you're being, as you said, held responsible because this movement is claiming that they're doing what they're doing, they're doing this in your name. They're saying that they're doing this to defend Judaism, to defend Jews, and they're doing it in your name. What would you say to those claims?
That it is a malicious, um, um, knowingly false abuse of the name Judaism and, uh, and a false representation of the Jewish people. Because Judaism is expressly clear, clearly, uh, uh, uh, um, in its command that we are, since the destruction of the Temple, forbidden to establish a Jewish sovereignty. And we've gone through the Inquisition, the Crusades, we've gone through 2,000 years of exile, and we had many opportunities. It was called the Golden Age of Judaism. We could have bought land. And all the great leaders of Judaism, which was the rabbis, because that's what Judaism is, a religion. So whether it is the Rambam, Moses Maimonides, the Ramban, Moses Ben, all the great leaders of the Morah of Prague, every one of them throughout the generations, when they were asked by the constituents, by their communities, "Maybe we should create our own sovereignty?" They said, "No, have patience. God is compassionate. When the time to end exile will happen, then God, with His compassion, will make this metaphysical change where all humanity will serve Him in harmony." But till that day comes, it is expressly forbidden to re-establish any Jewish sovereignty, even in an empty land. And that is, uh, respected and ex, and, and, uh, uh, upheld by the Jewish people for 2,000 years, although we suffered through so much trials and tribulations. So when they come along, the Zionists, and they say they're rep, both they're representing Judaism and they're representing the Jewish people, it's a malicious lie at, at the cost of Jewish lives around the world.
Mmm. And, uh, what would you say, maybe to Jewish people who, um, look at this history of exile that you mentioned for the 2,000 years and more, and say that maybe buy into the Zionist narratives and say that they need a strong Israel to be safe and to defend themselves? But also, maybe they're watching what's happening in Gaza and they're feeling a little conflicted at all the death that's happening, throughout the genocide. What would you say to them?
Well, I, we always plead with people that we know that most of them are, um, simply they've been, um, uh, uh, brainwashed. They've been taught from their youth. Because no, most of the people today, obviously, are not from the beginning of Zionism. Zionism is a hundred odd years, uh, um, since the, the Hitler is around 80 years. So these people are children who have, um, heard or witnessed, um, or at least heard and know have members of the family who've suffered, who were murdered in, by Hitler. So they, so they use this issue and they try to, uh, create a, uh, an atmosphere of panic, of of fear, that, uh, we need something to protect. Look, we're going to be murdered if, God forbid, if we don't have establish some, um, insurance policy, they call it insurance, a safe haven. But, but if you, again, it's an, if it's a, it's an insult to, uh, common sense, it's an insult to basic logic and knowledge. Because, um, if you would like to create a state because you say, "I'm not safe," so we will discuss that, create a state, don't create a state. But the first thing is, don't use a religion that clearly teaches that you are forbidden to establish this state. Using somebody else's identity is like counterfeit, is a crime. They're using Judaism, that our rabbis, who the leaders of the, the, the Torah authorities and the, in the books, as it's clearly says in the Talmud and now and so on, we are forbidden to establish a Jewish sovereignty. We believe that God protects us. You scorn, you laugh at that. You say, "God doesn't protect us. Do what you want. Pick your, we don't, God, we don't want. We're not happy to make their religion, but don't steal my religion that comes from losing God's, God's ethics, God's, the morals of God, that you can take another, the religion that just for your, for your convenience and use it in order to intimidate and silence opposition." So using Judaism for their selfish gains, that is criminal. But on top of that, that is, that is by the falsification of Judaism. But it's, but so, and it's, but more than that, and again, it's rooted in, in, in blasphemy and saying that God is weak. It's a, it's, it's so, uh, it's so, uh, uh, insult to common sense. Because you're claiming, you, you're turning to God and you say, "God is weak, God can't protect us. I have to take a gun to protect us." And, and, and it's forbidden, as I say. And we do not condone. I say, I say they should take, they should call it something else. They shouldn't call it Judaism. Not that, but God forbid, they they shouldn't do that either, of course. Because how do you have the right to, if you, you want to make a, a land, a country, stealing it from another people, taking, why don't you make it in some, in, in the Sahara Desert? I mean, I'm not going to say you should steal Sah, I'm saying make it in the desert. Why are you taking another land? Why are you taking it from the Palestinian people? But even then, we would not agree to it, of course, because Judaism does not permit Jewish people of making our own sovereignty. We're an exile decreed by God. But they are, the whole act is criminal from every aspect, from every way you look at it.
Mmm. And, um, what would you say, uh, then to people who turn this on the back and try to marginalize you?
Well, if you talk, there were great rabbis who said, like, um, if you want to look at the majority, well, the majority, you go to, could be Hindus or something. If you're looking at majority, that's not the way it works. We, as, uh, we, we were over a million 600,000 males from the age of 20 to 60 on Mount Sinai accepted the Torah from God, and we accepted to be subservient to God and accept the laws. But the Torah is very exacting and clear. We were taken into the Holy Land, we were driven from the Holy Land, as King Solomon writes in his book, Sherim, we are expressly, uh, we say because of our sins in our prayers, every religious Jew says, "Because of our sins, we were driven from the land." And we're under three oaths: not to return in mass, not to the Holy Land, not to rebel against nations, not to try to leave exile. Judaism is, there's not ultra-religious or they want to say fanatic religion. There's a Judaism is a religion that has a, a distinct system, the way it works, and exacting way. And we could be Lithuanian Jew, Svarik Jew, Ashkenazi Jew, Sephardi Jew, Ashkenazi Jew. We are all from different, different customs from around Europe. But you have the Ivy League of Jewish learning is brisk in New Jerusalem. You have the Chassidic leaders, all of them. We, uh, we have the compilation, the rabbis speak out, which is a compilation of all the major rabbis, the Babesali, the ones from Morocco, from Tunisia, every one of the great Jewish leaders said, "This is unacceptable. It's not fanatic. It's not fringe. It's the basics of Judaism." And in fact, when you go to our Jewish communities, these are distinguished, beautiful, learned, um, communities. That in the United States, the, it's right across from Manhattan, the largest concentration of religious communities. They are in every field, they are in, um, in, in every business, um, they are, and, um, and they are scholars, the greatest. This is not extreme, it's the basic of Juda. When one is ignorant of Judaism, that it's very easy to buy into. Because the United Nations recognized the Israeli rabbinate, which is, um, uh, when a criminal entity comes and in order to give them, uh, legitimacy, to give them some, uh, uh, they, they create, uh, their court system does that. Matthew will create a court system. He's going to say that it's, uh, that it's legitimate. If Hitler created, has his court system, would that make it legal? All right? Or because Germany went after that court system, it's patently evil. That is what we're dealing with here. Judaism is an exacting system, and, and we, all the Jews who are true to Judaism, you walk, go around the world, the very religious from the streets of Mea Shearim in Jerusalem, to our streets in New York, who are following the same system that we had Judaism that was in Europe and back throughout the generations without any changing. These are all anti-Zionist. We will not accept the oppression of the Palestinians, the stealing of the land, or the mere existence of the Zionist state of Israel. It's not Jewish. They, the Zionists are what is called extreme, they're fringe, they're breaching the laws of the Torah, and it's not Jewish.
Rabbi, as you've mentioned, since the establishment of the state of Israel, rabbis have been speaking out against Zionism, and you've been doing the same. And since October 7th, the whole world has started drawing more attention to this issue, and you're still at the forefront at the demonstrations, arm-in-arm, with the students, the pro-Palestine crowd. Where do you see everything headed going forward from this point onwards?
Well, with God's help, the first thing is, we believe that there's a great God Almighty. We call Him All-Compassionate. So we always hope every day that this will be the day of the end of the occupation. Uh, we will see a free Palestine, a free Palestine that will be able to live together in harmony, as we've had for so many hundreds and hundreds of years. Um, that we will be able to turn to the Palestinians and say, "Here is back your homes." I carry around the key that I got in, in Bahraja, in Lebanon, in the refugee camp, to show how they're yearning for the freedom of their homes in Palestine and Jerusalem. And I carry that around always, to that we are all, with God's help, in hoping to God for that. And what we are continuing to do, I, uh, just before what I mentioned, I just want to say just two statements from two great rabbis. One from the Ashkenazi world from Europe, that every Jew recognizes him as the Torah authority that we use as, uh, uh, he condensed the Jewish law and called the Mishnah Berurah. His name was Rabbi, um, um, Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto, who lived from 1839 till 1933, 15 years prior to the ratification of the state of Israel. And everybody recognizes his greatness as Torah authority. And he stated, "The Zionists are dead limbs of our people, which causes the entire body to rot." This was the Torah authority that everybody recognizes and uses his books, his law books. He says it's a metaphor, it's like a dead limb of our people which causes the entire body to rot. And one of the great leaders of the Sephardi world that everybody recognizes, he was called Baba Sali. Um, he comes from, from Morocco. When he lived in Jerusalem many years, he goes from 1890 to 1984, so well into the establishment of the state. And he said, "I hereby join the great rabbis of the Sephardi Adas, the God-fearing community in the Holy City of Jerusalem, in support of the Torah ruling that it is forbidden to participate in the governmental elections because it is against our Holy Torah." This is what it's all about. So it's very clear that there's Judaism, and this is opposed to the state, to the existence of the state. What emanates, and there's Zionism, um, that's just another, uh, uh, uh, eretz Israel, uh, a facade. They use the Judaism as a facade, an intimidation tool, um, uh. And you're asking now, what since the, um, October 7th, we've gone hand in hand together, um, with the Palestinian people, with the Pal people supportive of Palestine. And, um, um, I can just say that, uh, that the, we can, we hope, like I say, that our actions, sometimes the Almighty is looking for the actions of people, and that will be the catalyst to bring this, the free Palestine. We don't know. And we are witnessing that just as there is so much, um, unity, there's so much of us, solidarity, and standing up, at the same time, there is a tremendous, um, um, spring of the, of the opposition of the powers of government and so forth to squash and to, uh, to stifle the, the voice of these people, call humanitarians. I call people who is doing, who's doing the work that the Almighty requires of us. And there, we, and they're being intimidated, silenced, uh, fear thrown into them because they're being thrown out of countries, um, and, and, uh, and at least threatened with being thrown out. I mean, it's, it's beyond, beyond, uh, uh, the powers of many people to be able to stand out on the streets today. But we, with God's help, we will not be silent. And with God's help, we hope that God, with His compassion, will bring success to our work.