Transcription
Get ready to take a flamethrower to the official narrative and learn what the elites don't want you to know. You're listening to the Tom Woods Show.
Hey everybody, Tom Woods here. This is episode 27008 of the Tom Woods Show, and we're very glad to have back with us Clint Russell, host of Liberty Lockdown, which I urge you to listen to. Clint is just a natural at this. He's just such a good podcast host, such an interesting guy. His commentary on Twitter or X is, uh, really second to none. I am happy to follow him there. He has zoomed past all Woods here in followers on that platform. There's got to be a reason for that.
So, >> it's got to be more profane. You got to be more profane, Tom. That's the key. >> I know that's holding me back. But, you know, you know, Clint, the the most profane I get is Twitter. That is as much as as far as it goes. >> That's true. I see I see you, uh, drop some some nos on there and I'm like, "Oh, man. Tom's pissed." >> Yeah. The thing is, right, it's like this is the one platform where I feel like I could just, you know, let her rip. The problem is I know that one of my, um, adult daughters occasionally reads my feed and so I have to, as I'm about to click enter, I'm thinking, is it worth her seeing this for me to make this smackdown? And the answer is almost always yes. Yes, it is. I can explain her, explain to her later. But so, so she already understands that she's not getting, you know, Mexico is not sending its best when it comes to Woods's personality on on Twitter. Different guy.
>> This is this is why I, uh, I was anonymous for the first couple years I was on Twitter. And then, um, I have still not told almost any of my family, like, what I do. You know, like, they're starting to hear about it because I go viral periodically and they'll, like, see something. So, it's now, now getting to the point where everybody in my family actually understands what I'm up to. Uh, so now I have to have those awkward conversations with my liberal relatives at at the holidays. But it's okay, you know, like, I, I obviously believe in this and I obviously mean what I have to say and I'm obviously more than capable of of, uh, discussing it openly. So, now it's, now it's real. We got to, there's no turning back. There's no, there's no corporate role to be had for someone like me at this point. I'm, I'm definitely a lifer. I'm committed to this path and and I'm grateful to be in it. I, I think that this is such an incredible time. You know, you said direct this wherever I want. I just want to start by saying this is such a good time to be doing what we do. Like, I just want to emphasize that because there's a lot of negatives that you and I can talk about right now, but I have never seen a time where the media landscape is tilted towards independence, people who are telling their genuine truth, whether or not they're right or wrong. um, uncompromising, honest, you, you know, loud, vicious, boisterous, passionate voices. I've never seen a time where that is more tilted in our favor than it is right now. And I think that's a great thing. And it's, it makes me happy that talented people on our side and I think Scott Horton is probably the the quintessential example of this, whom you and I have known, right?
>> Was a really smart guy for a long time. >> But for a long time, his talents went, I wouldn't say unappreciated, but underappreciated. I mean, we certainly appreciated them. He was like the secret weapon for all of us. Y. >> And now suddenly, I mean, Scott used to host in the early 2000s something called The Weekend Interview Show. Everyone has forgotten about this. The Weekend Interview Show, and he interviewed like everybody in, like, the Lou Rockwell wing of libertarianism and then other, other people too. But everybody except me. Like, every weekend I would look at this thing and it was somebody other than me and I thought, did I do something to annoy him? Like, why am I the only per? So I started off my relationship with Scott Horton wondering, what is going on here? Why am I the only guy not on this Weekend Interview Show? But The Weekend Interview Show was not very well-known. And now suddenly he's debating General Wesley Clark. >> Multiple times. >> Crazy. >> Yeah. You know, I mean, like, he's on with Tucker, he's on with Candace. Huge shows with gigantic audiences. Piers Morgan, you name it. That's a radically different. That's the world we wanted 10 years ago. Exactly. >> And now we're living in it. So. >> Exactly. It's great for them. And, you know, just to add to that, he also had this incredible segment with Anna Casparian a day or two ago where he's like, "I know this is my cup of tea. This isn't really yours, but we got to talk about affordability and how central banking has destroyed our our standard of living." And Ana Casparian chimes in and she's like, "No, actually, I love to talk about that." You know, central banking and fiat currency is a huge problem. And it's like, this is this is the conversation. This is what open debate and dialogue >> creates. Like this is the whole reason I believe the free speech and the First Amendment is like this is how we win. And also I believe that our arguments are are, you know, superior to those of our opposition. So, like, let's do this. Let's have this conversation with anybody. And I'm just so thrilled that, you know, obviously Dave opened many of those gates for Scott, but Scott just, once he was through there, was no getting him out. You know, he's just been, he's been an absolute lion and I'm, I'm thrilled for his success. And I'll say in parenthesis that one of the great things about Dave is his generosity toward his friends. >> Oh, true. You know, I, I have known people who have scaled not even quite the heights Dave has, who instantly forgot their friends. >> Instantly. >> Dave is always shouting out to somebody who is not nearly as well-known as he is and describing him as, you know, the great, the brilliant, the best guy on such and such. >> Because he, he wants, he wants backup. You, he's like, he's up there all alone. And I think he's, because Dave was like the first to get to the highest heights talking what we talk. I mean, other than Ron Paul, but like doing it the way Dave does it. He was like the first to get there and and I think he recognized that, like, this is going to be really lonely if I don't bring up some of my compatriots to, uh, to fight alongside me. So, I'm thrilled that Dave considers me one of those people and and I'm a great example of the small-timers that have been lifted up repeatedly by Dave's name drops and and recommendations to his audience. And yeah, he's, he's just, he's the man.
>> Well, we'll, we'll, we'll dig in. I want to talk about Thomas Massie to start with, but I'll just say I was at a concert with my wife one night and Dave said, um, "You might want to keep an eye on my debate with Chris Cuomo," which I was not in a position to do, unfortunately. And that was when he pulled out a copy of my *Diary of a Psychosis* and handed it to Chris Cuomo and said, "You should read this. This will give you the truth about COVID." So I found out about this later. So as we're heading out of the concert, you know, my notifications are all blowing up. Everybody's telling me about this. I thought, "All right, good man, Dave. I appreciate that. Good man."
>> Well, I got a another little story for you then because I was there for that debate cuz that that transpired at PBD Studios in Fort Lauderdale, which is just like half an hour away from me. Um, so Dave invited me out and when that happened, I don't know if you could hear it in the the microphone, but I, I like, "Woohoo!" or like, "Yes!" You know, I was, I was super pumped to, uh, see the book get referenced because that's >> I appreciate that. I bet. Well, the woohoo story leads me to another stuff, but we're never going to. I, I'm, I'm do. This is what they tell you in podcasting 101 not to do, which is it take forever to get to the main substance. They, they teach you this. Never do this, but I'm going with our our people like to hear from us. So, I'll tell a quick, quick little story. Um, maybe you know Phil Labonte on on Twitter. He's the lead singer of, uh, the metal band All That Remains. Now, you know, obviously Phil and I have our disagreements, but, um, but I got to know him like a long time ago. Long time ago during the Ron Paul campaign. He introduced himself to me and I was so dumb. Like, I didn't know anything about metal. and he's saying, "Yeah, you know, I have a band called All That Remains, which is a kind of a big deal in in metal, reasonably big band." >> But I didn't know, you know, like half the people I meet, you know, they have a band or they're working on a novel or Okay, sure. So, I kind of thought he's another one of these guys, right? Then I find out, oh, actually, he's a really big deal. So, a few years ago, he, his band came to to near Orlando, so we went and I told him we were going to be there. And partway through the show, he stops and says, "My gosh, you guys are such an incredible audience. I can't believe the energy in this room." And I am told Tom Woods is here. Clint, you could have heard a pin drop in that place. No one was supposed. Except my wife and I went, "Woohoo!" So, >> Exactly. >> That's what made me think. So, we saw him afterward and and I, I said to the rest of the band, you know, those two people saying woohoo, that was us. Like, sorry about that. The Venn diagram of our audience is just like a tangency point, namely myself. >> That's hilarious. So, >> Yeah. No, that makes sense. That that makes perfect sense.
Well, before we get into the Thomas Massie discussion, uh, I had, uh, Bob Murphy on my show just before I hopped on with you, and essentially he was, you know, giving me very gentle pushback as to kind of trying to make the distinction more readily known to the public as to our beliefs versus those of the Fuentes, America First, Grier movement, and how I'm kind of walking that fine line. Um, and I, you know, well, I'll give you my opinion as to what I've been doing and whether or not I think it's the proper path. Obviously, since I'm doing it, I think it's the right thing to do. But, um, I'm just curious what your your opinion is as to the the Fuentes phenomenon because I'm sure your audience would love to hear what your thoughts, too.
>> Well, geez, I, I feel like lately, you know how if you, if you talk about Israel and you're critical, people say you're obsessed with Israel, >> right? The problem is like I've had a bunch of episodes in a row that in one way or another touch on Israel and in fact after this one Clint I have two more lined up but there you go. One of them is with an anti-Zionist rabbi, very smart guy. And I thought that was topical and interesting. And then I have a discussion like after the fact between Walter Block and Elana Mercer, both Jewish on Gaza and what was done to Gaza. And they have completely, uh, opposed views on that. And they asked if if they could have my platform to talk it out. >> So I thought, why not? That'll probably be a productive conversation. Let's go ahead and do that. So, let me just say before I even answer that, no matter what I say, it's I'm obsessed. It's the most important issue I think right now. Like, it's on everybody's minds and so I'd like to talk about it. You know, it's like COVID. Well, I guess I was obsessed with COVID. Let me face, let's face that. I was actually >> They locked us in our houses, Tom. Should we not be obsessed with that? >> I think we're allowed to be obsessed with it. Yeah. So, for one thing, I, I found, I found that the the pushback I thought was was fairly insincere because Glenn Greenwald has since dug up tweets from John Poritz and Ben Shapiro basically saying, uh, "I don't care if Trump says, oh yeah, it was, um, Poritz said, I don't care if Trump can say Shillock a hundred more times if he wants to, but he bombed Iran and that's what matters." >> Right? So, you know, obviously I, it, it looks to me like Fuentes is, uh, walk, I don't want to say walking back, but I think he is. I mean, I, thing is, I don't watch him so I can't, maybe people can contradict me on this, but my gut instinct based on what I'm hearing is that he's maybe smoothing out some of his rough edges and trying to say, well, some of those crazy things you heard me say, you know, were obviously jokes and anytime I speak about this thing seriously, you'll know that I'm speaking about it seriously. Well, if that's the case, then you could easily imagine a pro-Israel Nick Fuentes being maybe maybe slapped on the wrist or gently chided, but not really being the subject of this kind of response. And so, every time I see, oh, that the Heritage Foundation did a terrible job when they defended, uh, Tucker Carlson over holding this interview, I go to that person's Twitter. I usually have to go down no more than four or five tweets and I say, "Oh, I see what it is. It's Israel." It's every single time it's. So, if we could just be on, just say what we don't like about him is that he seems to be a lightning rod who is is, let's say, accelerating an already existing trend of negative press for Israel, of bad poll numbers for Israel in the US. Just say that. Just honestly say that's the thing that's motivated. It's not, it's not you're so concerned about, you know, uh, insensitive language toward women or whatever. They, they defend that 24 hours a day from all their friends, >> you know. So, so I don't, I don't think it's sincere. >> I think, no, I think they're not being honest. Just say this is the thing that motivates me. The, the reason they don't want to say that is I think a lot of Israel-first people are becoming more sensitive to accusations that they are putting Israel before the US. So they can't come out and say, "Well, the real thing that bothers me about him is his Israel position."
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>> Yeah. The the real thing that upsets me about Nick Fuentes is that he's right about us. We put a foreign nation before our own. It's like, yeah, well, oops. Maybe you should stop doing that or at least be that. You would. The best way to take the wind out of his sails is to stop smearing decent Americans. Stop trying to primary Thomas Massie or, heaven forbid, cheer the primary of Thomas Massie. um stop, um, make sure that you don't have a lobby that goes around trying to destroy the reputations of people who are running for office on a platform of "we really need that aid money here at home."
>> I mean, can you imagine the arrogance of somebody demanding like arguing that it's bad or wrong or evil or we're going to attack you because you don't want to send as much money as we think you should send to the country we favor. Nobody acts like that. I mean, and and I know they'll say, "Oh, but there are other countries that get aid." >> You think our IQ is 50? You know? >> It's like, but I oppose that, too. So, that's >> I too. >> The thing is that at least those people don't go around calling me an anti-Semite, calling me an anti-whatever. Um, there, I mean, and and not to mention I don't have a US. Could you believe that July 4th when Ted Cruz said, "Happy July 4th," and then he said, "Today is also the anniversary of the daring and Tabbie raid in another country." Let me tell you all about that country. >> Just stop doing that. That's over the top obnoxious. Like, Israel doesn't even want him doing that. Well, let, let me, let me, let me emphasize why that's so galling. This is a sitting senator from the state of Texas, you know, like red, right, white, and blue, shooting your 45 in the air, Texas. And this guy is like completely obsessed. I mean, this is what's so insulting about it is that it's these people, it's Ted Cruz, it's Lindsey Graham, it's Randy Fine, uh, it's Laura Loomer, that are calling people like us, you know, obsessed with Israel. It's like, your entire existence is dedicated to Israel. Ted Cruz said that. He said that's the whole reason he got into politics was because he wanted to be the most, uh, you know, pro-Israeli senator. And yet we're the ones that are obsessed because we don't want to be in tow to a foreign nation. It's just the gaslighting has gotten to the extreme. And I just wanted to say real quick, um, you know, you're going to get into Thomas Massie. Like, the, the reason that I, I disagree with Bob Murphy on, you know, his very gentle and very thoughtful pushback as to how I've been messaging lately is that Thomas Massie and Ron Paul, they're like, as good a people as you'll ever find. And I don't think they have a hateful bone in their body, and they're certainly not anti-Semitic. >> And their opponents know that, I think. >> Well, of course, but it doesn't change the fact that they call them that. So, so my point is I'm not going to like go out of my way to separate myself from Nick Fuentes to appease someone who's going to call me an anti-Semite regardless. Like, I just don't, I just don't care anymore. Like, the labels are really irrelevant at at this point. The, the past two years of absolute over-the-top smears that that we've suffered um since the war in Gaza began. It's like I've, I've ran out of fs to give. I'm just being honest. Like, I'm not going to, not going to concern myself with how bad actors treat me badly. Um, that doesn't mean that I don't have disagreements with Nick Fuentes. Obviously, I do, but I'm just not going to change how I message to try and appease these people. They're not, they're not good people. They're not honest actors, and I'm just over it.
>> I saw on Twitter a, uh, post by a guy named Christopher Long. Maybe you saw this. He used to be the president of the Intercollegiate Studies Institute, which has been around a long time. when when it, it used to be, uh, Frank Chadarov's organization. He was a, like a radical individualist libertarian who was friends with Murray Rothbard. So that thing goes back a ways. Uh, and then it became, it fairly early on became more of a conventional conservative outlet. And apparently Long, who is the, you know, ex-president, is complaining about the current direction of ISI that it's not spending enough time spreading American ideals on the college campuses. They're all over the college campuses. I've spoken for ISI multiple times and the guy who heads it now, Johnny Burka, is a young, smart, energetic, uh, outstanding leader of that organization. I, I will hear no criticisms of him. Great.
>> Well, this Long guy who's got, like, we don't judge people by how many Twitter followers they have, but for heaven's sake, you were the head of ISI, you have 300 Twitter followers. Like, you did not make an an impression on the country, we'll say, while you were heading this this very important organization. And he's saying about how concerned he is that ISI now, quote unquote, platforms the wrong people because what we need is a Buckleyite conservatism and what instead we're getting is, in his words, isolationism, which isolationism is a left-wing smear term. If you're using that word, you've discredited yourself immediately. And then limits on immigration, which apparently he thinks it's not conservative to favor that. So he's got the usual laundry list of things. And then he's saying that, you know, he's using anti-Semitism and bigotry. I mean, it could have been written by AOC. And the, the comment section, Clint, is, "Yeah, your day is over, man." But what did Buckley conservatism ever do? What did it accomplish? I mean, Buckley would lean back in his chair and look all sophisticated and yuck it up with left-wing intellectuals and then they would get what they wanted and Buckley would just, you know, look like a really smart guy. That was that was >> I'll tell, I'll tell you all the positives that came from Buckley conservatism. Oh, I, I'll sit back in my chair and and get some popcorn to listen. >> Here's the list. I'm over. It's over. No, I'm just kidding. Um, I mean, they they transed our kids and then they, uh, they also brought in, I don't know, something like 100 million illegals over the past, you know, Buckleyite era and and totally changed the entire social cohesion framework of this country. Uh, they let us into multiple wars. They allowed for 2A and 1A to be diminished and they put us, they took from his era, which was sub-trillion debt, to where we sit today at 38 trillion. So, yeah, modern conservatism has been a disaster. Anybody, you know, defending the old guard, uh, and and pretending as if there doesn't need to be new blood in this movement is out of their mind. Sorry, I got to be honest. Like, they are just so, they are so detached from reality. No one, no one is in the camp of the Randy Fines, the Josh Duzas, the Laura Loomers. All of the energy is on our side. All of it. And like, they just, all they have is institutional power. We have the people. Like, that's the change now. Like, the, the kids have woken up. I just want to really emphasize that for anybody who hasn't been paying attention. The 20 to 40-year-olds, and I'm calling those kids because that's basically how we look at civilization today. They are so eyes wide open when it comes to the military-industrial complex, corporate malfeasance, um, baking depravity, the, the, uh, you know, terrible relationship that we have with Israel and how it's led to so much death and destruction and ultimately devastated our our country as a consequence, not to mention most of the Middle East. Uh, these people are like, really, really like fired up, intelligent, passionate. Like, I'm just so, I just really think that there's like, there's this tendency to feel as if, and I, and I'll, I'll grant, I was wrong about Gen Z. I was wrong about the Zoomers. Like, I, I thought that they were going to be totally crippled. Like, how would they not be, right? Being raised by social media, going through the lockdowns and the vaccine mandates and the woke environment and the Me Too and like all of the abuses that they languished under to to expect them to come out and be like the generation that saves us is was totally delusional, but I think that might be what's happening. I, I really think that these kids got a chance to change things.
>> Well, I, I, um, Well, you know what? This is probably a good time to to say something about Thomas Massie. Everybody knows the situation. Everybody knows that although, you know, they try to say Massie never votes with his party, he, he almost always votes with the party. He very, very rarely votes with the Democrats. You remember John McCain used to be praised for being a maverick. But he was a maverick because when Ted Kennedy would propose some terrible thing, he would cross the aisle to go support it. I mean, like that was what made him a maverick. >> But Massie is the real maverick because he doesn't have the machine behind him. He's, he'll say no to both sides for good reasons, not for petulant reasons, but for good reasons. He's solid on everything. He's obviously been better than Trump on COVID, on vaccines, on spending, on guns, on on January 6th. He was better than the subject of January 6th. He, he defended the president on Russiagate. He, he's been absolutely rock solid. Now, meanwhile, we have Lindsey Graham, who is not rock solid, unless you are, you belong to some different movement or something. And so what we have now is a massive effort to unseat him in Kentucky. And there's some group that calls itself, I don't know, is it MAGA Kentucky? Is there some kind of group that has Kentucky in the name, right? >> But it's supposed to sound like it's a Trump organization. You know what I'm talking about? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's the pack backed by all of the Epstein clients to try and oust Massie. >> Yeah. There were three. I don't know if. Are they all billionaires? >> I think so. Yeah. >> Yeah. Pson, Mary Mson, and one other. >> Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember the other one either, but they're all Israel partisans by what I am sure is a coincidence. >> Yes, of course. But, uh, but don't listen to >> I'm sure what they're against is his support for sound money, right? >> Yes, exactly. But don't listen to Fuentes about the oligarchy that he describes. Um, anyways, yeah, look, I mean, it's no coincidence that Thomas Massie also is responsible for having us one vote short of the full disclosure of the Epstein documents. And as soon as he started to beat that drum, they went from opposing Thomas Massie to marshalling dozens of millions of dollars in a primary campaign to get him out of power. And I, I got to emphasize this. The, in a, in a general election, the, the standard budget to win a general is like $3 to $5 million. That's like how you get to be competitive, right? You got to have that amount of money for marketing and door-knocking and everything else. I, I studied this because I was, I was considering primary, uh, Randy Fine. But in a, in a primary to spend $22 million, which is what the Aden-backed pack is doing against Massie, is so beyond the pale. And it, like, this is such an incredible shot back at the Cernoviches of the world who constantly say that, you know, Thomas Massie doesn't make a difference. He's just basically, you know, he never gets anything done. He's never passed any bills. Like, that's these are the arguments that they make. All of them are wrong, by the way. He's passed lots of bills. But anyways, you don't spend $22 million in a primary to oust Massie if he doesn't make a difference. He's making a difference. And I, I am 1,000 trillion percent behind Thomas Massie. Same for MTG. Same for Rand Paul. We've got a handful of people who aren't completely cowed by foreign countries and the military-industrial complex. He's one of them. He's our guy. We got to defend him and I hope people will donate to his campaign because he's going to need it. It's going to get, it's going to get spicy. I, I would just say again, no, nobody in Israel would tolerate it if, you know, let's say a few billionaires whose, you know, whose whose motivation is the welfare of another country came in and tried to influence an Israeli election, they wouldn't stand for that for a second, you know. And if anybody said, "Well, you're anti-Nigerian because you don't want I mean," they would say, "So so blankety blank, what would call me whatever name you want, but this ain't right."
>> I mean, he's the best guy we have by a million times. >> I made this video, you know, at when you and I had that conversation a few months ago, and I said, you know, Dan Smottz needs to do a video >> in support of Thomas Massie, right? Because he's, he's the best video guy we have. >> And so he did it. and took taking some of his best clips and everything and and you realize, yeah, I've been, if I ever was misled into thinking Thomas Massie is my enemy, >> then shame on whoever did that to me after you watch that. >> I consider it the IQ test of the right wing. >> It is. >> If you, if you're on, if you're on the right wing, if you're a Trump supporter and you don't love Thomas Massie, like literally love him, then I just think you're the dumbest person on the planet. And you're not dis >> at at the very least extremely disappointed with certain things. In fact, >> the very things Massie is trying to talk about. >> Exactly. >> If you're not disappointed about those, well, I, I don't know what what to tell you in that. So, so we absolutely have to have to support Massie. That's weird. That's not normal that that this is happening in our country. We know why Massie is being opposed. It's obvious what the reason is. But if you say what the reason is, you're the bad guy. I think that's starting to melt away. I think that just doesn't work that well anymore.
>> I, Well, one, yes, you're right. It certainly has started to to work less and less. But two, I think people, people by and large, you know, in our camp and others have just gotten so exhausted by the smears that they just don't care anymore. Like, I, I could not care less what you, what you call me because I oppose AIPAC, for instance. Like, I don't, I don't want foreign influence to be funneled from American Jews or foreign, you know, from Israel. Like, no, I don't, I don't want to have my politics influenced by that country, China, Russia, France, England. Like, none of that is acceptable to me. And I'm not going to allow for some smear to to, you know, cow me into silence. And this, like, the, the whole QAR op that they've been running to try and to try and make it seem like, well, sure, you don't like AIPAC, but you never talk about QAR. It's like, dude, the whole reason we have a, like, the largest forward operating military base in Qatar is because it's prepared to go to war against Iran on behalf of Israel. Hello. So, you're going to, you're going to now pretend as if, like, Qatar actually runs things when the whole reason we have such a cozy relationship with Qatar is because of Israel in the first place. It's like these people are so, they're so duplicitous. I just can't stand it anymore. And I think it's radicalized everybody, including Dave Smith, who was Jewish, and he's just like, "Why are you guys such liars? You just lie constantly."
>> Yeah. Yeah. You give everybody a bad name. So, uh, Dan, uh, Ben Shapiro said, this was some years ago, that some that Ann Coulter has made some remarks about Jews that he doesn't particularly like, but she's been really great on Israel, so he can overlook them. I mean, it's just okay. So, that just goes to show that that is the issue. That's it. >> That just, in in a way that was refreshingly candid. You know, if, if he could just be that way all the time, >> that would be refreshing. >> And yet, that's the entire origin story to the, you know, anti-hero Nick Fuentes is that because he questioned Shapiro's dual loyalty to Israel, he immediately quote tweets him and calls him an anti-Semite and says, "This is classic anti-Semitism." And that's what like really spiraled Nick Fuentes into the beast that he is today. And I just think that's so funny because it's like, yeah, Fuentes, or excuse me, yeah, Shapiro, you're, you are dedicated to a foreign country. Like, that's the truth. If you were just honest about it, I don't think it would be nearly as offensive, but they, they're not honest about it. Like, it's obvious in their actions that's what they're driven by. But when it comes to their rhetoric, if you say, "Hey, it seems like you really are just like in this to defend a foreign country," then they're they call you a name. It's like, "Well, how about this? How about I call you a traitor then? Because you're actually trying to rob me to not just fund a foreign country, but to fight wars on behalf of a foreign country." And yet you think that labeling me something is going to stop me from pointing that out when you're like committing treason against my country. Like, that's that's why it's so radicalizing for people because once they come to that realization, you can't turn back. You can't just be like, "Oh yeah, this is fine. I'm going to, you know, Shapiro is really good against the woke college kids and he's pretty good on, on, uh, you know, financial stuff, so he's, he's still an ally to us." No. No. You can't be my ally anymore. If your, if your underlying principle, your underlying driving factor that that gets you out of bed every day is in dedication to a country that is not my own, I'm sorry, you can't lead this movement, that you can't even be a part of it, as far as I'm concerned.
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>> Well, I, I totally hear that, but I want to, before I forget because I have this, my, my memory is not what it was. What was your profession before you went into podcasting? >> I ran a mortgage company. >> Okay. So, do you have any particular insight into the question of the the 50-year mortgage being proposed? >> Oh, sure. Yeah, I could definitely talk about that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Let's, let's hear what your thoughts are because, you know, obviously you first hear it and you think, oh my gosh, of all possible instead of getting to the fundamental problems here, let's come up with another band-aid solution. You think that >> On the other hand, I've heard investor types saying, if I could get a reasonable fixed rate for 50 years and live in a house and take the money I would have spent on the principal and invest, I would do that >> every day of the week. So, what do you think?
>> It's, Yeah, it's, it's advantageous to those that that are able to get a greater return on investment versus, you know, say a five or 6% mortgage, but like the expectation that you're going to, you know, refi that house at 6% on a 50-year mortgage and then deploy that into the market and expect to beat a 6% return, like, good luck. That's not easy.
>> Yeah, that's, I was wondering what, what kind of interest rates would there be on a 50-year mortgage? Well, the, the expectation historically has been that the longer you're, just think of it, think of it like time value of money and and giving away the, the utilization of your, your hard-earned savings, right? Like, you're going to have an expectation of a rate of return that is reflective of how long you are to go without that money. So, you're going to want more interest if it's locked up for a longer period of time. This is why I mean, this is just a total, like, non-organic. This is a non-free market phenomenon. You would never see a private investor going, "Yeah, I'm going to lock up my money for 50 years." That's such crazy behavior. That's a. This is only something that would happen with state-backed financing and central banking. So, that's what this is. Um, but the rates should be higher. Like, a 50-year mortgage, they should be higher. That's how it should work. But, as you know, like, a good sign, a good telltale sign of recessions is when the yield curve inverts. So, you'll have like the two-year bond will suddenly, uh, you know, cost more than the 10-year and you're like, "Oh, we have a problem." Will Robinson, like, that's, that's when you know that the economy is about to implode. I mean, I'm sorry. I just wanted to point out that like sometimes because of state interference in the economy, you will see interest rates on long-duration debt, uh, suddenly be cheaper than short-term, but that's not, that's not a natural market phenomenon at all. Like, that just never happens in the free market. So, I oppose it on a multitude of levels. I also want to add, you know, we're in the most historic real estate bubble we've probably ever encountered. I think clearly it's the, the biggest we've ever been in. And there is just immense market demand from young people who have completely given up on home ownership and they have no interest in trying to buy because they, they just recognize that the, the acquisition price, the entry price is so astronomical, it, it doesn't make any sense. So, what we ought to see is that as the boomers die off, which they have started to. Uh, my dad passed last month, unfortunately, the, the real estate market should start to liquidate, um, and you should see additional supply hit the market, which will start to find equilibrium and bring prices down, which we have seen softening. So, the only thing that this does is it takes a bunch of people that wouldn't qualify for the, you know, the purchase of a $5 or $600,000 home that they may qualify for the purchase of a $400,000 home. Okay, now they can qualify for a half a million dollar purchase. So, that just floods a couple more million, uh, you know, potential buyers into the, like, realm of potential buyers, like viable potential buyers. Adds way more, uh, demand to this market with not enough supply. It does nothing to address supply. So, all it does is it gases this bubble one last time to try and bail out the boomers who have made a fortune off of the inflationary environment that they have benefited from ever since, uh, Volcker jumped interest rates in the early '80s. It's, it's devastating to the young people. I just, I, I want to really emphasize it'll, it'll radicalize the youth in this country so, so horribly if we don't let this market, like, correct naturally and it seems like they're not going to let it happen.
>> Now, that unfortunately, that never happens. >> Yeah. >> In terms of housing, you know, we have a lot of, you know, blue ribbon commissions to look into what's causing X or Y or whatever. Now, I, I think we have a kind of already have a sense of what's causing this problem. But if they don't, and by they, I mean the administration, they should have a commission, bring in the best people and and, you know, bring in some, some economists who actually have a clue about what's happening. And, and the thing is, sometimes they have brought on decent people. You know, they, they, they did appoint Jay Bodacharia >> to to head the NIH. I mean, there are some good people involved here. So they could, they, they might even know where to go to ask who the good people are and have them just write a report really quick with the top 10 reasons, uh, housing prices are so high in the US. What, what are? And it's, it's not going to result in, therefore, we need to subsidize housing. No, it's, it's we need to get these things struck down that are causing the >> out of our way. That's the answer. I mean, and, and you've got the, uh, housing secretary. I think it was like Duffy or whatever his name is, and he's talking about how, oh, there's, you know, there's like a half a million empty lots that are being sat on by developers. It's like, hey, dumb-dumb, the reason they're sitting on it is because the input costs are too high because to to buy the lumber, to go through permitting and licensing and everything else. Uh, they don't expect to make a a return on that investment. Like, these aren't stupid people. These are professional real estate developers. And you're going, "Oh, they're sitting on dirt." No, they're sitting on dirt because they can't make a profit, dummy. Like, what? How do you end up in the highest levels of government if you don't understand like market dynamics at all? It's just so insulting and infuriating that that's how things work. Um, but yeah, the answers are very simple, Tom. Like, you, you need to deregulate aggressively. You need to stop borrowing and printing and spending us into oblivion so that the input costs come down so that the the developers can, you know, come off the sideline and start to build. I built five houses. I ended up losing a fortune on it. I built five houses during the, the lockdown era in San Diego, and input costs because the lockdowns went up two, 3x. I mean, it was insane. Like my expectation was it was going to be like $300,000 a door to build it. It ended up being $600,000. Like, it's, it's catastrophic what they've done to our money. And, and then on top of that, yeah, you could deregulate. You could start to cut the red tape. I mean, it took me years to get through the planning department in California, but that doesn't mean that, like, federally they can actually remedy that.
Because these are state problems largely, and California is probably the worst when it comes to building. So all of this, from the money side to the supply side, everything is a product of state intervention in this market. So now their answer is, "Hey, instead of just being an indentured servant for 30 years, we're going to lock you into 50. Enjoy that, you 35-year-old Nick Fontes listener. I'm sure that's going to deradicalize you, right?"
It's, it's what they do with everything. So they, their all their subsidies and everything else makes higher education too expensive. So instead of going to the root, they then say, "Well, now we'll, we'll on top of this, we'll, we'll give you these loans."
Right? And that's how we make college affordable, not by actually lowering the price of it, but by giving you a loan. And likewise, so they say that with, um, affordable housing. Affordable housing doesn't mean the prices are going to come down. When the prices came down in 2008, they all acted like Godzilla had returned. They weren't happy about that. They did everything they could to jack them back up again.
So, which was the best thing that could have happened for us.
I beg your pardon?
Which was the best thing that could have happened for us. That, that recession was like the only healthy thing we've had happen in my entire life economically.
Yeah. It's that they want, in theory, they want lower housing prices, but there are a lot of boomers who they've, their, their whole gamble on their future is stuck in that house. So,
And it's not just them, Tom. I mean, it's the, the big money boys like the Black Rocks of the world, the hedge funds, the banking institutions, they are all reliant on the real estate market. It's all underwritten. There's derivative contracts that spin out, spin out into the rest of the world. I mean, this is the whole reason that they had such, such a panic about the '08 recession and, and real estate collapse is because the derivative contracts literally had the entire banking, like complex globally on the brink of implosion. And they just couldn't allow that to happen, 'cause that's where that's all the donor, you know, bucks. But it's even worse now because they didn't do anything about it. And it's like now we're sitting on, especially after COVID, they just racked like a quadrillion dollars of additional debt onto this already unsustainable Ponzi.
So, I mean, we're in trouble, man. Just going to be honest.
You know, it reminds me. So it's like, in theory, those people probably would like to see other people be able to get cheaper houses, but there's no way to do that that doesn't affect everybody. So, it's, it's, it's kind of like, um, I was just reading that Harvard apparently wants to crack down on grade inflation, you know, because everybody's getting an A. So, they want to crack down on grade inflation. And it's like, yeah, I'd like them to crack down on grade inflation the year after I leave, you know. It's like it's like Augustine, "Grant me chastity and continents, but not yet."
Exactly right. Yeah. I mean, no, nobody ever wants to do the right thing and like actually swallow the bitter pill to to improve circumstances for tomorrow. It's all about today. Always, always today. And, you know, unfortunately, Donald Trump, in my opinion, is completely, completely cowed by his investor class. Or maybe he's just always been a compromised scumbag. I don't know what the answer is. But regardless, he has, he seems to have no interest in doing the hard things to benefit this generation over the next decade. We have no, we have no long-term planning that's going on with this economy. It just seems like everything is about the now. Um, and it just seems like everything is about how much, how much additional wealth and resources can we extract from these people before they revolt against us. Like, that's what it feels like where we're at.
Yeah, that is exactly what it seems like. Let's take one minute to say a word about something that I'm very, very pleased and and honored that you're joining me for. I'm hosting another one of my cruises next year. And old Clint Russell here, you know, as charming and insightful and interesting a guy as you could ask for, is going to be on board with us all week along with Scott Horton. Could you imagine after one week with Scott Horton, you'd have like a PhD?
That's for real.
We're going to have.
I spent, I've spent at least that much time with Scott Horton and it, it has improved me tremendously.
Yeah, it's going to be so fun, man.
And, and a great thing about Scott that maybe is not that well known, at least on the cruises, he's a night owl. He stays up late because, or maybe it's that he stays up as long as there's somebody who still wants to hear from him. He stays and talks and talks and talks. You can ask him anything and he just, you know, for, for the night owls, we have you covered. You have plenty of free time on these. You're not, you're not like, it's not like we're going to be lecturing you on, heaven forbid, the non-aggression principle. No, you will hear from Scott and you and I will no doubt have things to say, but it's that, you know, I host games where, uh, I give away money. That's the new thing. If you win, you get money. I actually give away like pretty good cash prizes for these games. But we even have a thing for the wives and girlfriends who aren't so sure about these ideas we have. Uh, we're going to have the, "My husband is a right-winger" group, and they can, they can hang out, have a lot of fun on the ship, um, and not have to worry about the crazy things we do. But I have Doc Dixon, who's that great magician who fooled Penn and Teller. He's going to do a private show for us. We have great dinners together. The speakers migrate from table to table. So, you got to have dinner with them. Tremendous fun.
I love it. I love it. I'm really thrilled that I got the invite. Um, I've always wanted to do one of these. I, I knew about them years ago, and I just, at the time, I was actually, when, when was the first year you started it?
Well, I, I, the first time I did it on my own was this very year, but I used to do one in partnership with Bob Murphy all the way back in 2016. We did that for four years.
That's right. All right. So, that was back before I was even in this world. I was still running my mortgage company and I would listen to you guys and I was like, I was, I was like, I got to do that one of these days. Um, so the fact that I finally get to do it almost a decade later is like, it seems, it seems appropriate. I'm, I'm very excited to do it and I hope people, uh, come check us out. It'll be fun for sure.
Dave Smith was a special guest in 2017. It was the.
It was absolutely tremendous. So it's a whole lot of fun. Uh, my old friend Stefan Canelo was there on, uh, this year and he said these are his exact words. This was one of the best weeks of my life. Like, that's how much fun it was, just non-stop hilarity and fun. So, uh, so tomwoodscruise.com, check that out. You want to spend a week with Clint Russell and Scott Horton and me. Tomwoodscrews.com.
All right. Um, as we, as we wrap up here, uh, we talked about a handful of things here, but what is really grinding your gears at the moment? I mean, I, I bet it's probably a lot of what we already talked about.
Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm upset about everything.
Yeah, me too.
That's, that's my whole, that's my whole, uh, my career at this point. It's just, I, anytime I get really pissed, I just grab the microphone. Uh, it seems to be working out for me, so that's good.
Look, I, uh.
I think at this point, like the, the thing that's been bothering me the most or probably disappointing the most has just been the Trump administration overall. You know, it's like, I, I get a lot of crap about this because I ultimately broke down at the very last minute and decided to vote for Trump, but like I had, I think I had reasonable expectations, you know? I was like, he's probably going to end the proxy war against Russia. Like, what are they going to do? Going to get us all nuked? Like, he'll probably do that. He'll probably free Ross. He'll probably do a few good things. And, you know, it's just been like, dude, he's, he's just not delivering on so many levels. It's unbelievable. And, you know, this is my tinfoil hat side, so maybe people should be listening to Liberty Lockdown instead of Tom Wood Show for this particular topic. Um, but it, it really makes me wonder if, if that bullet that grazed his head at Butler, Pennsylvania, wasn't a message that he received loud and clear that he is completely horrified and mortified as to the threats that he's facing and he's compromised entirely. Um, I think that's a distinct possibility. I also think that there's a distinct possibility that the, the people that, that took a shot at Trump were the people that took out Charlie Kirk. So, I'm going to end on a bang by, uh, by throwing the most hot takes I have at you. I am, I've been studying this, uh, you know, in depth and I know I sound like a lunatic, especially if you haven't been studying it, but there is real reason to doubt the, the, the story about Charlie Kirk. Um, so I guess if I'm going to end on anything, I'll just say this. Like, that is the thing that's grinding my gears the most is the complete disinterest from his friends when it comes to his untimely death, his assassination in front of the world. Uh, there is, there is real reason to doubt the FBI's narrative. Um, I'm not going to give you the whole, the whole rundown of, of the reasons why, but if people want to check out, uh, my show, I, I've done a, you know, a lot, lot of coverage of this. And I think that there's a distinct possibility that he was taken out by, you know, state-based actors. And I don't know if that's American intel or foreign, you, but it stinks, Tom. Like, I'm, I don't, I grant, I know I sound like a crazy person, but there's something, there's something that doesn't sit right with me about that entire story. So, I hope, I hope we get justice for Charlie Kirk. I really don't want to live in a country that allows for political assassinations of political commentators, not even politicians, but political commentators that were that far down the totem pole that they're taking out people like us. Like, this is crazy. Uh, and I just, I just refuse to let that be buried. They buried the Butler, Pennsylvania attack against Trump. Don't let them bury this one. We really need justice.
You know, Clint, I think a lot of people, even people who listen to this show, you know, and they say that they believe that the US regime and its hangers-on are, uh, sinister, but then when, when you propose to them, well, they might have done this.
Yeah.
Some of them really, "What? That's impossible." But these are the people you just said were sinister. Now, by the way, at the same time, some things just happen, you know, like some things just happen. And, and so I become a little sensitive to this because of back in the Ron Paul days because I was kind of close to Dr. Paul, had worked with him on a number of things and would be the opening speaker at a lot of his events. I had the conspiracy people looking into me and it turns out I was part of the Jesuit conspiracy to take over America because after all, I went to a Jesuit high school. I did not. I went to North Andover High School in Massachusetts. They confused me with a Thomas Woods in Wisconsin who was 12 years older than I am. Like, it was crazy, like the whole thing was crazy. But they had this whole theory that I was part of the. Now, first of all, let me tell you something. For anybody who believes the Jesuits are trying, the Jesuits are the most limp-wristed, do-nothing, unambitious left-wing nobodies in the world today.
That's exactly, that's exactly what a Jesuit trying to take over the world would say.
It would say, right, to throw you off the scent. But the thing is, in the old days, if you met a Jesuit, that was a serious person, like, like sharp, intellectually tough, in in every way, spiritually, in every other way. Not anymore. You know, not, not, you know, they, I mean, I'm dressed the way a Jesuit would dress today. Like, they're just, actually, I'm way nicer, more nicely dressed than they would.
Well, just, just to back up your point. Oh, sorry. Go ahead and finish.
Well, no. I was just going to say, so that's the, the, of all possible things you have to worry about, the idea that the Jesuits, who have no ambitions to do anything anymore, they've been so left-wingized, are going to take over the world. You can cross that one off your list of concerns. I'm more concerned that the Avon lady is going to take over the world than these people.
Well, I, I'll just, I'll just end by saying, you know, the, the fact that, you know, they, they recognize that the government's evil. They also, if they've been a fan of your show or mine, they're already aware that there was a bioweapon created at UNC Chapel Hill that was then outsourced, uh, through Eagle Health Alliance in the Wuhan Institute of Virology, and it was released. And, you know, whether it was intentionally released or not, they completely lied about it. Said that it came from a wet lab or wet market and ultimately tried to completely ruin our lives, simultaneously transferring trillions of dollars of wealth from the poor and middle class to the uber wealthy and, and politically connected. Um, but they wouldn't, oh, they wouldn't take a shot at Charlie Kirk, though. Like,
Yeah, that's. They created a bioweapon and stole trillions of dollars and locked us in our effing houses, but they wouldn't take a shot at Charlie Kirk because he was, had no choice but to abandon the pro-Zionist cause.
Well, remember, there, there were people saying, uh, uh, saying to JFK, you know, Operation Northwoods, that we should, we should have people basically be killed in the US, blame it on Cuba to justify an intervention. Um, at the time of the, of the intervention in Afghanistan, we have the memos that they were considering. It was called thinking outside the box. Poison the food supply. They're thinking about poisoning the civilian food supply in Afghanistan. I, I mean, you, and that doesn't mean that every bad thing that happens, they did it. Again, sometimes things just happen. There are crazy people in the world, but you can't automatically just say, well, they would never do that. You can say, "I don't think the case is very strong for them doing it in this particular instance." Okay, we can debate that, but it can't be, well, I have to rule that out because could you imagine Lindsey Graham being in on something bad?
That's not the way to think.
And, and just for the record, I'm about 98% convinced that RFK, JFK, MLK were all killed by intelligence agencies. So if you think that someone like Charlie Kirk couldn't have possibly been killed, you're actually the one who's going against Occam's Razor. Occam's Razor is that political leaders in America that get murdered in public are almost always taken out by intelligence agencies. So you have the burden of proof actually at this point, in terms of percentage chances, as to whether or not some radical lefty who's screwing his furry lover at home, uh, just got radicalized and decided to take out Charlie Kirk on a whim. Okay, maybe. I don't think so.
Well, I guess adding to that, would you say that the American regime has gotten better and nicer since the 60s or worse and more sinister?
Way more, way more sinister. And in fact, back then they were interested in preventing nuclear holocaust. It seems like they were totally motivated to create one today. So, uh, yeah, I think that they're capable of anything and I think that the evidence actually points in the direction of conspiracy. So, I don't know. You know, take it with a grain of salt. Nobody has to believe me, but I hope people will keep an open mind because you, you have a reason to on this one.
All right. Clint Russell, Liberty Lockdown is the podcast. You can get it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Obviously, Clint is well worth listening to, as you can tell, if you haven't heard him before. And of course, join him with me at tomwoodscruise.com. I mean, this is going, how is that not going to be fun? Come on. And, and if you say, "My wife doesn't want to go because she doesn't, she's not into all this stuff." There's so much to do. First of all, she's going to love it anyway. She's going to be the one asking you next year to to come back because she's going to love the people, the games, whatever. But I'm, as I say, I'm going to let the, the women, there could be some men who are dragged by their wives, but that's not the usual pattern. They're going to have their own group. They're going to, they're going to have so much fun on the ship, they'll just love it.
If you, if you don't come out to this cruise and do body shop, body shots off of Tom Wood's body, you're pretty sure you're out of your mind. I mean, that's, that's what I've, that's what I was put on this planet to do. Um, so yeah, I'll see you guys there. Anyways, thank you so much for having me, Tom. Yeah, Liberty Lockdown. Liberty Lockpod on X. Appreciate you.
All right, Liberty Lockpod. Go follow him on X right there. Minute. LibertyLockpod. I have this stupid dumb handle from when my, I used to write books and I have always had my full name. So, I'm Thomas E. Woods on that platform. This is so dumb, Clint. I wish I could take that back. Too late now. All right. Thanks again.
Yep.
And thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Make yourself and those you love less vulnerable to the regime, both mentally and physically. Get more forbidden information at tommsfreebooks.com and be sure to subscribe to the show wherever you listen. See you next time. Like the sound of the Tom Wood Show? My audio production is provided by Podsworth Media. Check them out at podsworth.com.