Transcription
This is crazy, y'all. Greatest player of all time. She's here. You're going to get a master class from her, Annie Waters, and her coach, Lee Waters, aka her mom, on six key parts of the game: the serve, third shot decisions, attacking, counterattacking, drilling, and overall mindset for becoming a great player.
And make sure to subscribe to the channel and hit that little notification bell. It will inform you when new videos post. We have more pros coming on like Auggie G talking decision-making, Patrick Kofka talking third shot drives, and Zayn Navertil talking about how to turn your serve into a weapon. Those are coming soon.
But right now, without further ado, because you didn't click this video to listen to me, let's get into it. What's one thought that is really important when, like, we are stepping up to serve? Like, what's going through your head? What would you coach somebody to think through?
Well, a couple things for me. One, if you are in a tournament, definitely let the ref say the score. Even though the rule says you can start your motion while the ref's speaking, as long as you make contact after they say the score. Annalie likes to start her motion, but then if the ref cadence is off just a little, Annalie's like hitching through the service motion. And finally, I've I've gotten her to the point where I'm like, "Let him go. Bounce ready to start the point." Yeah. So, that's that's that's numero uno.
But my main thing with the serve 100% is: before you serve, pick your target, look at it, and then go. Cuz there's so many things you can be thinking about. It's like it's just you with the ball. Everybody's waiting. Your mind can be going in a thousand places, but the easiest way to like kind of reset and get focused is pick a target.
Okay. Also though, to your point about hitching with the ref serve, just hitching in general, like I see some people like start their motion and then serve or maybe take back the paddle and then serve. You're losing so much momentum that you're creating with your body. And by the time you're here, it's like basically all arm cuz you've lost all of the momentum.
Can you, can you, can you show maybe one example of each? I actually used to serve a little bit. Like, I'd go here and then I'd go here and then I'd serve. Oh, interesting. And I'm It's so hitchy and you're losing so much momentum. So now, now I'm So everything is just flowing. It's just flowing and fluid. Cuz if you think about it, like in tennis, the serve is a completely different motion. Like, you're hitting an overhead. Whereas in pickleball, it's kind of like you're hitting a forehand. So I feel like a lot of players sometimes struggle with the serve, but then they have a great forehand. So it's like, just hit a forehand as your serve. And and when you're hitting a forehand, you're never stopping or hitching. It's just a total fluid motion. Yeah. So if you just think about hitting a forehand as your serve, that's helped me a lot.
That's really good. And do you have like, your mom talked about targets? How often are you stepping up being like, like, I know she wants to hit a forehand or I know she wants to hit a backhand, so I'm going to go to this place on this serve?
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I feel like the T-serve is definitely the harder serve. So, if maybe it's a tight moment in the match, I don't know that I'd be like going like 100% like full T-serve. I feel like a a corner serve would probably be more uh accurate. So, I think it's also like dependent in the match, like, "All right, this is a tight moment. Maybe I just want to hit like a good solid deep serve." Versus like, "Okay, maybe we're up in the match. I'm going to try to hit it to his backhand. So, I'm going to serve T." Or maybe somebody's unwinding on the return. So, then I want to hit it, you know, as far or as deep like over here. So, they have to run completely across the court. Like, I'm not going to serve T if they're unwinding because then they're already basically on the other side.
How much do you think about, will you communicate that with your partner like, "Hey, they're unwinding. I'm going wide."?
Or I'll just be like, "Hey, they're unwinding. Like, pressure this return," not necessarily tell them where my serve's going.
Lee, any any additional thoughts that come to mind on serves?
I would just say for people that are practicing serves, it can be a little boring and monotonous. And so really like the best way is to get some targets out, place some targets and play like a little game with yourself or yeah, if you have a practice partner, like playing little games against yourself, like trying to hit targets. That's what we do. And it's really the best way to stay focused and sort of then when you get into your rec play games or your match play, you're like, "Oh, I can see the red target in that corner. I can see tournament where we really focused on serves like in practice and I was like thinking red like I right before I'd serve, I'd go red. I'd go green. and I go yellow cuz like I knew exactly where those targets would be in my head and it was really helping me."
Interesting. Okay. Well, speaking of targets, if we were to connect the the serve to the third, I think the third shot decision is is such an interesting one and obviously like more drives are coming into the game with more athleticism and more power and paddles. I'm curious your how you would coach somebody into making maybe one smarter third shot decisions cuz there there is a lot of options. So, how do?
Yeah, I mean, sometimes I feel like people freak out, but yeah. Well, obviously the better serve you hit, the shorter return or the worse return you'll get. So, I really think that going for your serve is a big thing because if you're getting a return here and the person's moving and it's a lot easier to hit a third than if you've hit a bad serve, they're at the net and you're back here trying to hit a third. Yeah. But one thing that's kind of weird is like if it's like short up here, it's really hard to drive. Yeah. Because not only are you moving forward and it's low, but you have like less court to work with. So, I feel like up here, you should probably sometimes I'll drive this cuz I'm not being smart.
But I thought you were going to say cuz you're you. Yeah. But I would probably drop like from here up. Like I would probably drop, hit a third shot drop. And I know a lot of people say like, "Oh, it's so hard to hit a drive. Like if you're moving backwards and the person's hit a good return, like you're supposed to hit a drop." It's so freaking hard to hit a drop if you're like back here and the person hits such a good shot. And usually your drop's going to be high or you're going to miss it and the person's just going to crush the next ball. Whereas if you like take a step back and hit like a decent drive, you might catch them in a weird place or you might get another ball that's easier to hit that third shot drop. So I would say if it's like short up here, I would drop. And if it's super deep, I would drive. Anything like here, I would say is personal preference. It's like whatever you're better at, you should do.
I don't know. Yeah. No, I I totally agree because I think one thing maybe to describe the drive, it doesn't necessarily mean 100%. Like a drive isn't you're hitting the ball 100%. You can hit the ball 100% if you want, but you can also hit a drive at like 50%. And I think like the shot that Anna Lee's talking about, if somebody's pushing you really far back, Tyra is a perfect example. She does this so well, is just hitting a 50% drive that's sort of low over the net. And what the heck do you do with it? You just bump it back. And now all of a sudden she's got she or her partner have an easier much easier ball to work with versus if I'm all the way back here and trying to hit this perfect drop, the next person's just going to come in and slam it. So there's like different variations on speeds with a drive, which I think right now if you looked at it, a lot more people are driving than dropping cuz it's just an easier shot that you can do more with. Especially if you're like weird conditions, like if it's super windy or if it's really cold, it's really hard to hit like a a good solid drop cuz every like I don't know. Like for me personally, I just think driving like medium pace is a lot easier.
That's Yeah, the wind one is do you real quick side note on that. Do you have a preference to end the wind against the wind? That's I feel like that's a question people ask.
It kind of depends on the event and it also depends how like bad the wind is. So if it's super windy, it's really hard to be against it because I don't know. So there's been some crazy. If it's like a little bit, I'd probably rather be against it cuz then you can really like swing out. Singles might be a little different just because if somebody's hitting a really good approach shot and you're against the wind, it's tougher to pass. But at the same time on your ground strokes, you can swing out. So there's kind of pros and cons to both when it's like a little windy. But when it's like crazy windy, I think being with it is better.
Yeah. Different take or the same?
Oh, yeah. I agree. I mean, I think I think with the paddles now, it's a lot easier to be with the wind because you have so much more spin to work with and plus you have the power. So, when you're with the wind, it's tough to counter that power. The you've got the wind and these paddles coming at you. So, I mean, I think recently we've been trying to like stay with the wind, but it's weird cuz like if you choose to start with on the bad side, then you're like, "All right, let's just try to win this game so that when we finish like let's say we have like a three gamer, we're finishing on the good side to maybe come back, but then you also have like or should we start on the good side?" So, we win the first game and maybe like then they're defeated, you know, and like don't want to come back. So, there's definitely two different sides. So it's like even if you know the like which way you like the wind, it's still like a decision. Like that's maybe also when you look at your opponent and you're like, "Do they fight?" Like, or you know what I mean? It's like like if you win the first game, like are they going to fight? Okay, that's interesting. You know, or if it's like if you win the first game, does it not matter cuz they're going to play the same anyway.
Okay. Okay. Something I've noticed. I think a lot of the women do this more than the guys and I definitely have noticed you do it and I saw a little bit of both just in your in your technique. I I'm noticing a lot on even on some of your drives how you you finish same side kind of Rafael Nadal style. I think you know, you look like Anna. Anna does that. Gosh, a lot of I think Roar Brocker does that a bit. Yeah, I'm noticing a lot more people doing it. I mean, I see Ben's doing it a lot and he does a lot on his drop. I'm just curious how like why, what is the reason for it? How does it work? I'm curious your take on it.
I feel like you can just get a lot more spin this way. Um, and sometimes if the balls like like if somebody said a really good return, you don't have time to like try to like whip it over and get to the other side. So, this is just a lot easier. The only time like sometimes I do finish this way and that's if I have more time and I'm like kind of coming in with it. Whereas I feel like I hit this one more if I'm like staying back cuz it's hard to hit this and then like move forward. Whereas like if it's an easier ball, I feel like sometimes I'll just take it and finish on the other side.
Totally. I mean, you can accelerate way faster this way than this way. I hit like a ton of ground strokes like this. I've noticed that, especially in singles. Like, I hit a lot like this. One, you just don't have time to like really like finish and then reset. Two, like she said, I just feel like I get way more spin. It also if you're out of position is is a lot easier to finish this way. So, like if I'm falling back and then I got to try to same thing with moving sideways, it's like cuz you can stay more balanced whereas if here like sometimes that can be tough.
Again, if you were to coach uh let's say a 4.0 player and they were like, "I really want to learn the topspin drop." Would you coach them into hitting it like this on the drop?
Not at first. I would teach just the natural first. Cuz if you do this the wrong way, like it's bad for parts of your like your arm, like your shoulder. I actually cuz I started doing this one like a yearish ago cuz I never really hit it this way. And I actually asked my physical trainer. I'm like, "Is this going to like hurt my arm or shoulder in any way?" And he's like, "Not if you're doing it correctly and you're using your legs and you're using your body, but if you're just using all arm, like you can feel it if you just use your arm, like your shoulder hurts. Whereas if you're using your body, it doesn't matter." So that's why if like a lower level player when they're first starting to learn this topspin drop, I wouldn't necessarily go like go hit it like this. I mean, and also like to be fair that you couldn't do this like when we first started playing pickleball from a paddle standpoint. The paddles now with the the grit and the dwell time allow you to hit balls like this, allow you to hit dinks like this. But if you if we got out our old paddles from back in the day, like if you tried to hit a ball like this, that thing's going like it's not going anywhere. Yeah.
And that's probably why is that why more people were just push dropping everything at the time? Just lifting it. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. A lot more people too were like slicing their drops, which in the men's side you see sometimes they'll slice it, but on the women's side there's only like I can probably count on one hand the people who slice their drops. Me cuz I'm like, "You do a backhand old school." Yeah. This or like I this one Tina has a good one. Yeah, Tina. Mari has a good one. Yeah.
Very interesting. I think one thing I just the thing I've noticed the most on on your drops maybe more than anybody I can't think of anybody who does it more aggressively. I feel like you are you go.
I definitely miss more, but I Yeah, they are more aggressive. Yeah, I mean maybe like in 2021 he missed one, but um I was about to say I don't think you're missing that many. But yeah, it seems like like I'm curious just your mindset on drops because the like look at Ben. He gets a backhand drop most of the time he's hitting a cut. That's what I typically do. I just know I know I'm going to make that one more not more than not. And I feel like if you get a forehand or you get a backhand, it looks like you're looking to create something on the third a lot. How much is that in your head?
And for sure. I mean, I'm not thinking like I'm going to try to hit a winner on this. But one of my best things about my singles game are my rolling drops. So, I feel like that's just what I'm most comfortable with. Like, if I get a drop like to hit that shot and like you said, it's more penetrating. So, it sets up maybe Catherine to poach or get an easier ball. I honestly like to poach my own third sometimes. Like, if I hit a good one, I'll come up running to to try to hit an aggressive volley. But, I think like if you look at like the top women, we all have pretty penetrating drops. I just feel like maybe I hit them a little like harder. Do you agree? Like maybe not mine aren't as spinny, but they're like a little harder.
Yeah. Which I think I mean like I said, some paddles have way more dwell time, some have more power. So I mean you have more of a power paddle. Some of the other paddles are softer and have more dwell time where they can you can hang the ball a little bit more. But Annalie is just an aggressive player overall. So like most of her shots are fairly aggressive. I would say her I I think she dinks very aggressively as well. I mean, you're not seeing her just like bumping deep. Any shot that I hit, I'm always trying to set up a ball that I can be aggressive on. Especially like if I've hit a good serve, like I'm trying to keep I'm trying to hit the third so that they're hitting it here, not like when they get up here. Whereas, if you hit like a loopier drop, they could just run in, okay, and then take it. Whereas, if you hit more of like a drive drop kind of like in between like rolling singles drop, you give them way less time to get to the net.
Okay. So, with that, like you you're trying to create opp advantages. You're trying to hit penetrating shots. You mentioned it earlier, like a pickleball IQ standpoint. Are there just like patterns in your head that you know if I hit it here, it's likely to go here or I want to try to hit it to this player's foot because I know they're going to do this. How conscious are you in the moment of where you're hitting a shot? And maybe more importantly, why you're hitting it there.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, this also comes down to really knowing your opponents. Like, I really know who I'm playing. So maybe there's a team that like if you drop middle, they're confused or don't drop here cuz they're really good at like Eda's super good at flicking on her backhand. So maybe I'm going to stay away from like dropping there cuz I know she's going to flick it. But also maybe she's moved to the middle, so then you go there to go behind her. So there's definitely like many ways to think about it. Also if somebody's just returned, they're coming in. So that's probably a better place to hit your third than the person who's just standing at the net, like who hasn't isn't running isn't moving just waiting for a shot. But it's also like what's your best shot? Like, is my best third a forehand crosscourt roll or is it a drive down the line? You know? So I think you got to think of strategy like your best shot and then you also have to think of their weaknesses in order. I'd probably go your best shot strategy and then their weakness like in that order. Yeah. Because if your best shot can exploit their weakness, you win every time and you don't need any of the other jazzy stuff. You don't need that much of a strategy.
Sometimes like your strength feeds into their strength and that's where you have to be a little bit careful. Like I love to speed up my forehand, but if I'm going to speed up my forehand and that your best shot is the forehand counter, well, I'm not going to sit there and speed up every single ball cuz now you're a happy camper. So, there is a little bit of starting with your best shot. If that's not working, if they're taking that away from you, then you got to go to plan B and say, "Okay, now how can I better exploit their weaknesses?" Even if it's not my number one strength.
That's where it seems like chess comes in a little bit.
No, it's for sure. Like during a point, like I'm thinking, I'm like, "All right, like when I get my next ball, I'm going here." Like the only time that I'm not like totally thinking is like if I get a speed up ball, it's just kind of like instinct and then the counter is like instinct. But I'm definitely thinking like, "I can speed this up." You know what I mean?
Yeah. I mean, one one thing that I get a lot from like um amateurs, like they'll come up to me and they'll be like, "Oh, I just get so nervous because like I don't get a ball and then all of a sudden I get a ball and I don't I don't know what to do with it." And so like the easiest thing to kind of combat that is first of all, want every ball. Want every ball to come to you. Expect every ball's going to come to you. And even when you're off the ball, you should be thinking about what you would be doing with that ball. And that way you're always in the point. you're always expecting that shot and you're never in this position where you're like, "Oh, I hope the ball doesn't come to me because I don't know what to do with it." So, just really staying in the point mentally even when you're off the ball is super important.
I mean, we're going to put a motivational track under everything you just said. That was really good. So, you're saying if let's say we're in a point and and I'm in like a crosscourt dink battle with Kyle, you're saying a way for you to stay engaged is like, "All right, if I'm getting a ball here, you're thinking about what you would do physically do with this ball."
Oh, that's really good because because you're because that way like you're anticipating what's going to happen. Like you know if it's too high, then I'm ready for this. Like you always need to be one step ahead of the ball sometimes. When I'm playing with Catherine, this is kind of funny. Like I'm on the left, she's on the right. She gets a dink and I'm like, "Dink, dink, dink, dink, dink." I'm like, "I'm like trying and then I'm like, speed up, speed up, speed up, speed up." Like I'm saying this in my head. I'm like, "Speed up, speed up, speed up." I'm like, "Don't speed up. Don't speed up. Don't speed up. Don't dink. Don't dink." Or like, you know what I mean? Like I'm like in my head like like I can I'm reading what she's going to do because like she said, if you know what your partner's doing, you can be ready. If you're just standing there and your partner speeds up the ball and then you get a forehand here and you're not ready. Whereas if you're if you know she's going to speed up and you're ready, that's like a putaway ball. It's the best way to learn how to anticipate is to put yourself on every shot mentally throughout the point.
So are you actually saying like if we were dinking right now, all four of us, like let's just start a dink rally real quick. So we're dinking. Are you saying that like let's say the ball's like on Anna Lee right now, I should be thinking at all times like, "What is she doing? What is she doing?" Yes. Or what might she do? Yes. Versus just hanging out watching. Okay. And then getting surprised and, "Oh, the ball came to me." You know. Yeah. And then I get mad at you for like kind of popping it up, but it might have been an opportunity for me to counter it or something. Yeah. Like sometimes people hit bait dinks for people to speed up so that you can, you know.
Do you Is that something you do?
It's something I've done.
You've done?
I did it once. No, because like if you know somebody's going to really try to reach in like but it's going to be a tough shot if you're ready for it or ready to get out of the way.
Okay, that that makes me think um a lot of errors in my experience watching amateur play come from like in their people's minds it's like, "When can I attack? When can I attack? Can I attack now? Can I not attack now?" And they might not have the ability to match their instinct of attacking all the time. And so to your point about if you hit him a bait dink, people are always looking to attack so much because maybe their soft game isn't good yet or whatever. But how how do you think about when you attack and when you don't attack? Uh maybe specifically at the kitchen area.
Well, if somebody's like been dinking and been moving, that's a great time to attack them cuz they're off balance. Whereas if like you've just been standing there and I hit a dink to the person in front of you and they speed up at you, you might just like be ready to counter cuz you're just standing there and you're on you're balanced. you're ready for the counter. Whereas, if you hit me a dink over here and I dink it down the line and he speeds up at me, I'm going to be like off balance. Yeah, that's interesting. Another point is you can kind of speed up any ball if you get low enough and you hit enough spin. Like, it might not be the right decision, but I could speed up a ball down here and just take pace off and like hit it super spinny. So, I don't necessarily think you should be like waiting for a ball that's like, "Oh, can I attack this? Can I attack this?" Cuz you can kind of attack any ball if you're doing it correctly. I think it's more of, "Can I attack this ball there where I want to or they're moving so now I should attack or I don't know their weakness is a forehand counter this is too low to like hit a forehand counter but I could hit it to their backhand so I'm just going to dink it."
Yeah, but that's very like for a 4.0 I don't know if they're like, you know like Annie said, "I can attack any ball." I know. Yeah, I know. But it's true. Like what if you guys just did just a little kitchen game and Anna Lee, you actually like told how what you wanted to do or like what you were thinking you should do and you can debrief it afterwards. Like just think that one. Speed up. Sure. Speed it up. Just kidding. Nice. Dink, dink. Okay. Speed up. Bad speed up. Bad speed up. Why was a bad speed up? Is that what happened? No. Why?
You should have sped up that ball.
Oh, you tell me.
Well, the first one that you that I said to dink was a very penetrating dink and you had to take a step back. I feel like if you have to take a step back to hit a speed up, you probably shouldn't be speeding it up cuz it's obviously a good dink. Um, so that's why I said dink there. I said speed up there because you could take a step in. The ball was a little higher so you could hit a better speed up uh on it. And you picked a spot there. If you're speeding up here and you go there, you're leaving your line wide open. My first time playing so I think it was the right time to speed up. You just picked the wrong spot.
Okay. Where where should I have sped up if that ball was there?
I So I I would say his backhand middle or her backhand. Okay. Real quick. Just give me that ball real quick. It was kind of right here. So I So I did go here and and then she hit it to your backhand, you missed it long. But it was it was un it was lucky I was there. I think I mean the only way that speed up across her body would work is if you kept it like super low. Yours was like higher. That's why like like that like I would hit that shot but like I would say for like a four four five like pro probably I wouldn't hit that shot. So Zach is the ball right here. I'm probably either going Zach's you said either Zach's backhand potentially or I might go more into this spot. Oh yeah. Also you could also come right at me especially like if you've noticed during wreck play that I'm not the greatest at sliding. I'm not reading the speed up very well. like to take a ball and just speed it up right body. Pretty tough. Right in between the eyes, Kyle.
Okay, guys. Let's go again. So, uh, if you get one that you want to speed up, you speed it up. If you But if there's one that I'm going to speed up, tell me and I'll kind of We'll do that same thing again. Preferably you don't speed it up, though.
Speed up. You're on your back foot there. Okay. What kind of happened there is I made a bad decision cuz I should have been on the line and hitting that out of the air cuz it was an attackable ball. But because I let it bounce, I definitely shouldn't have sped it up once I had taken that step back. So, I'm kind of like, "Okay, I lost the opportunity. I'm going to not be mad at myself and speed up the ball to try to make up for it. I'm just going to dink it back." And then because I hit a penetrating dink, I then stepped on the line and then got the ball out of the air. That is a crazy. So, it's kind of like, I've lost the opportunity. Let's get another opportunity and keep going. You know what I mean?
I I mean, I think we've all everybody watching this video has been there been like, "Oh, I missed it. Now, let me take a speed up cuz I should have taken it." And this is like, "Oh shoot, that was a terrible ball. Let's go again."
Yeah. Dink. Back foot. Speed up. Nice.
Why'd you tell me to speed that one up?
Even though you had to move for it, it was kind of a higher, loftier ball. And I could tell that because he had hit this dink, he was moving here, but she was kind of moving here, too. So I was like, "All right, speed up." Cuz they were both moving. So no matter where you hit it, somebody was going to be off balance.
You knew you were. How were you paying attention to what they were doing?
You just. Cuz I was I was looking out of the corner of my eye. Okay. Like the my right eye.
How much how side eye she was side eye in the middle of the point. How much how much do you?
So you recognize the movement, but how much are you paying? I mean, of course, like who you're playing matters on how they like to counter. But how much are you paying attention to uh in that moment what they're doing?
You want to be paying attention, but if you're the speed up person, I don't think you should really be paying attention to that cuz if you're like looking at them and the ball's here, I think watching the ball is way more important. But because this is never going to happen in a match where I could tell you to speed up like that, but because I saw them, I knew it was a good time. So that's kind of a tough spot because I don't know.
Well, this topic just came up recently and I was actually watching Julian. You guys were there watching the tracking or not tracking, right? And I Julian, I don't know if this is always, but when he was off ball, he wasn't looking at his partner, right? So, like, how much are you you're you're kind of one foot in, one foot out kind of watching both?
A little extreme because I think you should watch your partner a little bit because if they speed the ball up and you don't see, like, how do you know where they set it up or where it's going? So, I think that's too extreme. But at the same time, like I'll maybe watch her hit the shot, watch Catherine, watch Ben hit the shot, and then I'm back looking at my opponents. And then when I know they're getting a shot, I'll look, they hit the shot, then I'm back looking at my opponent. So I'm not like always looking here, and I'm not always looking here. And I'm not like turning my head necessarily either. I'm just like I said, like using my eyes and kind of tracking that way.
I think you need to look at your partner because like Annalie said, you need to know if this person's going to speed it up. And like what in that scenario that just happened, Annalie is correct. We were both moving because we were over the ball was over here, then the ball got shifted. So, we're both moving. I made the decision last minute to like stay middle because I'm thinking that's the high part of the net. I'm going to give him a little bit of line and I'm going to take the chance that he's that he's coming down the middle. And then he was lucky enough. He was lucky enough. I wouldn't use that word. But but if Annal Lee weren't looking at Kyle and knowing that he was going to speed up, she has to be ready because let's say that he sped it up where I thought he was going to across the body. My ball is coming right back at her at a very hard pace or here where you're not where I'm going to or here. But if she doesn't know that he's going to speed up the ball and he speeds it up here, she's going to be taken a back in a big way if I counter that ball at her. Whereas, if you speed the ball up down the line at me and I'm able to counter, that ball's coming back at you, but she still has to be ready just in case. She might know you're speeding it up, but she probably doesn't know exactly where it's going. So, she's got to, "Okay, speed up. I got to be ready for the counter through the middle here, you know?"
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. What about the flip side? So, they're the attackers cuz I I think I I rarely see you get chicken winged. You rarely get surprised or jammed. I mean, it happens to everybody, of course. Like, I think it happened to you like a couple years ago or so. But, but what are we as the being attacked players? How are how do we approach this? Cuz so many people, we had a question like inside of our school, our community that was like, "I start to have this like reflex. I freak out. I back up. I panic. They're coming at me. The bangers, you know, duh duh duh." What's the approach to that so we can get better at that?
So, it's I think it's it's a couple different things. is one, if you're a player who just kind of stands on the line like a Gabe Tardio who like you can speed it up and he's just going to like know where like be able to hit it. He's not really backing up or necessarily moving his feet a ton. But me personally, like my feet are like always moving. I'm never just like standing here waiting for somebody to like speed it up. If I can tell you've hit like a little bit of a high dink, I'm going to take a step back and like be ready for the the speed up. And if you've hit a high dink there, I'm probably going to set up here or be ready for this. If I hit one like to to my mom's line to her forehand. Here goes Zach. It's like right here. Yeah. Like right there. Because it's way harder for her to speed up here than it is here. So you always want to be ready for the shot that's easier to make. So like same thing if you're dinking. Like if I'm dinking here, I'm and I'm him, I'm going to be ready for like the easy dink here and I'm going to like give you that kind of cuz that's way harder of a dink to make than just like standing here dinking. So the same thing goes for when somebody's attacking you. And I think I think like one of the main things is just moving your feet and like constantly like you've hit a good dink. All right, now I'm on the line. I've hit a bad dink. I'm gonna take one step off. And I'm not saying like run all the way back here if you hit a little bit of a high dink. I'm just saying one step, be ready. They didn't speed up. Okay, I'm safe. Or they did speed up.
So you would disagree if somebody said you should be standing on the line all the time.
The days of staying on the line are gone. And that's due to the paddles. you could stay on the line before because you couldn't speed up. Like Annalise said, you could not speed up from anywhere. Like you you just couldn't. But now with the paddles, you you kind of can speed up from anywhere if you know what you're doing. And so like my comment to an amateur that says, "I'm attacked. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do" is like beyond what Annalie already said is imagine that every single ball is coming at you as a speed up. You're never surprised that way.
She tells me that all the time too and it's coming like like just know the the game has changed and the ball is coming. So every single ball you think it's coming. If not, it's so easy to just hit the ding back. Gotta be ready for the the attack. And to build on that, back to your footwork. Like you're moving forward, backward. Do you split step a lot? Are you kind of like you move back?
I split step before anybody like if you dink to her, I'm split stepping. Why? Even if I haven't touched the ball because she could hit it to me. So I need to be ready to move anywhere. Yeah. Like if here dink one to her. Like she could speed that up. So, I need to be like split stepping and I'm moving here. Like, if I don't split step and be ready, I'm just standing here.
Like, for you, is it is it like purely the split step is almost like a preparation mechanism?
I don't even think about it. It just happens. I'm like, "Be ready. Be ready." I mean, the guys are way better at holding the line than the women are. And it's just because they're bigger, they're stronger. It's just they can take a one-handed shot and be aggressive. Whereas, if I stand here and somebody hits it here, I don't have any like some women do, but I have like no power here. So, I have to be able to turn my body and hit a backhand or turn my body and hit a forehand. And I can't do that if I'm just standing here. No split step whatsoever. I'm just going to get eaten up.
How do you decide which one to do? Cuz I mean, it depend like I'll just be like, "All right, they're going across here, so I'll slide here." If they're going. So like. So, can you could you dink one to him and show Zack you got the ball?
So, if he's got a forehand, it's a little different because I have to also cover middle. Okay. So, like I'll probably he I'll probably like set up here, but if he then hits it to my forehand, I'm ready. And if he hits it a little bit in here, I'll slide to my backhand.
So, you're are you lined up pretty neutral?
Like lined up completely neutral. If I'm playing mixed, it depends on the guy's tendency. Like, if the guy speeds up a lot through the middle, I'll sit here. Whereas, if the guy tends to speed up line a ton or flick line a ton, then I'll slide this way.
So, you're making some real adjustments.
Real adjustments like throughout the match for sure. And especially like let's say my mom's favorite shot is forehand across my body. So, I'm going to slide to my forehand most of the time and then if she hits it to my backhand, I'll quickly like reset it or.
Okay. So, if you get surprised.
So, if I get surprised, it's usually a reset unless I have enough time to switch. Yeah. But I feel like that's why too you see a lot of resets in the women's game from like back here cuz they're expecting here it's not there. So, we reset and we get back into the point.
Yeah. So, you were saying, if I understood correctly, that extra step back gives you extra time to get to your TUI. Is that right?
Okay, that's cool. The tough thing about somebody who likes it to the outsides is maybe you're thinking you're hitting it right to them, but they still figure out a way to hit it. It's because they're sliding. So, sometimes you kind of have to guess and be like, "They're probably going to slide here, so I'm going to hit a little bit this way." So, they like slide into it almost.
You're constantly assessing like and you're going back to the baseline. Maybe you just sped one up, it didn't work, or it did work, and you're making a mental note like, "Okay, clearly that's the spot or it's not the spot. I'm going to go to a different spot on this next one." Just mixing up your spots, I think, is.
Yeah. I mean, I see a lot of like a lot of people think like, "If I speed it up and I get burned, I'm I better not ever speed it up again." And I don't believe that at all. I think you should keep trying and if you keep getting burned, then you should start switching up your spot. But there's also like a tipping point where all of a sudden just the relentless pressure of being attacked all the time starts to create errors. So if you attack me and I get lucky and you never attack me again, I'm like, "Thank God they're they they quit attacking me." Like one of the things that we always work on is like at the very start of the match, let's shut down the attacks. Let's make sure we're ready and we shut them down because so many times it just shuts it down for the whole match. So aggression is a huge part of the game now. And to shut it down early because somebody countered well on the first or second point is just a bad move. If the person's not good at attacking and you're the counter and you know where they're going, it's like pretty easy to counter. It's just if the person's like tricky with your speed ups, which is why if you're the person speeding up, you should try to really mix up your spots and be tricky like that. But some people just don't have certain speed ups. Yeah. So, you know, they're always going to go here or it's always going to be 100 miles an hour, so I should get out of the way or, you know.
Yeah. We have this uh I think I told we have this online community and so we have like 700 people in it and we asked them to submit a bunch of questions and there was a number of questions in there that were around drilling and so like people have questions about like how much should I drill? It's like, well, if you're drilling, never, you probably should drill some. But I want to frame it like this on YouTube. I came across your first ever match with Ben at the Desert Ridge tournament. We were down in that in the third as well. And um it was interesting watching your play because your play has obviously improved so much over the course of three years. And it's also kind of an interesting thing to watch. You know, you've been number one since then, you know, and so like at times it could be easy to I think get complacent or not drill as much or train as much cuz you're just like, "I'm winning everything." What what does
It, what did your training look like? Say, back at that tournament when you were playing Desert Ridge, that time in your life, and now, like, what does it look like for you to approach drilling?
I'm pretty sure at that tournament, it was probably no drilling, honestly, or not a lot. I think maybe because Ben actually came to our house and we played for like a week with him, and it was like a lot of drilling, which is that was probably the most I had like drilled in a consecutive week. Probably like every, we just played like tons of wreck play. Yeah. Like we'd go play like four hours of wreck like every day. So I definitely, since then, progressively more drilling.
I honestly think like six months ago, I was drilling too much and not playing enough. Like I was drilling like the whole week and I'd play doubles like one time, or maybe I wouldn't even play doubles. Like I just drill and then I'd get to a tournament, and that's like my first game that I've like played and like since the last tournament. And I never got to work on anything in a wreck game, or I'd never got to play and remember, "Oh, this is how you hit a third shot and move in." You know, because drilling is great, but at the same time, it's not replicating exactly what's going to happen in a game. So I think there's kind of like drilling a ton versus playing a ton. It's like somewhere in the middle. I feel like right now, I'm probably drilling like 60 to 70% and then playing games like 30 to 40% right now. Because I think there was this thing on drilling where it's like, you just need to drill like 90% of the time and just play like a little bit. But I honestly think it's a little more even than people.
One of the reasons is because when you're drilling, you're supposed to be working on things, right? And if you don't ever play, you never get to practice using the things that you've learned in your drilling. And you're less likely to do those things in a match if you've never done it in practice. So, if you're drilling a forehand speed up and you never play wreck games where you get to actually hit forehand speed ups that you've been working on, you're definitely not going to do it in a tournament or a wreck game that counts for whatever, because you're going to be too scared. So, I think that's where you really need to play those wreck games because you got to put to use what you've done in your drilling. Even like if we're doing like a drilling like dink to speed up game, I still feel like there's a difference like versus in a match like dinking and speed ups because there's so much more court you have to cover. There's so many more different variables, like from somebody speeding up at you crosscourt to like line. Like, I, I just feel like like practicing even like reaction stuff, like reaction in a game is so much different than like drilling because you, you're expecting it in the drill. You know it's coming. You don't always know it's coming. So the reactions are different.
Well, is like how much maybe situational drilling do you do versus like, "I'm just going to hit crosscourt dinks?" Or do you go in specifically saying, "I want to work on, I need to work on this specific thing because I'm not doing it well?" Because I think a lot of people are always like, "What should I drill? I don't even know what to drill." And so you probably have a better idea of what to drill. So maybe, what would you coach somebody to focus on while drilling, and maybe what are you doing in your drilling?
So, personal for me, like after a tournament, I take a couple days off because I'm just so exhausted. And then I'll like slowly get back into it. So, like the first day I'm back on the court, I'm hitting like a ton of dinks every direction. And maybe that's the day we work on speed ups, like standing and just hitting speed ups. And then maybe the next day, like I'm hitting thirds and moving in, and, you know, doing a little bit more active movement type drills. And then like by the end of the week, I'm like playing a lot of games. So that's how I kind of like get ready for like a tournament.
There are days though where like we just work on one thing, the whole practice. We're just working on one thing. And then like Annalie said, there are other days where it's more like movement oriented. So, we're working on like cardio and footwork and moving. And then there's other days where it's situational, where we're working on patterns. Maybe we're doing two-on-one drills because it's a lot easier to work on patterns when you have to another person. We definitely mix it up. We don't spend more time on one thing than we do on something else.
Drilling honestly can be very boring and like, "Gh, I don't want to go." People play pickleball because it's so fun, right? And they're like, "Gh, I don't want to go drill." But if you're here's constantly mixing it up. We used to start every drill session with like an insane amount of dinks everywhere that would take like 35 minutes, and then we'd do the rest of our drill sesh. And then like a year and a half into it, I'm like, "I don't want to dink any." Like, you know what I mean? Like, can we start? Yesterday we started my drilling with ground strokes at the baseline. And like, I feel like most people start drilling by hitting dinks. Like, you don't have to start drilling with. Yeah. The other day I was working with Christian. We started his practice out with serves and returns. Mixing it up, working on different. There's so much you can work. There's endless amounts of things that you can work on. Like, just doing the same thing over and over isn't all that.
Yesterday we did this like thing where I played for like an hour and a half, then I like worked out, then I like played for another hour and a half, which is like way more than I usually train, but like I'm trying to like really get ready for a tournament, so I did that. But like I just wanted to cover like everything like in that three hours or whatever, and like I couldn't. So like this morning, like we finished out with like the rest of the stuff. There's just so much stuff you can work on, and we only worked on something for like 15 minutes each. Like, imagine if you wanted to spend more time on it. Like, you could do a month of drilling and still have things to work on.
Well, if somebody is say a 3.5, 4.5, they want to get, they want to improve, and they're like, "I want to get as good as I can as quick as I can." There's endless stuff to work on. What do they focus on?
So, I have a very different view of most people because I feel like most people feel like you need to have the finesse game first. I think you need to have the aggression first because the finesse game takes time. Like the finesse game is like so nuanced, and it's really, it's the most difficult part of pickleball. The scariest part of pickleball for your opponent is the attacks, not your nuance little dinks. And if you, you look at tennis players at any level that come into the game, how do they play? They do nothing but attack. They drive and attack, and people hate it. Then the more they play pickleball, the more they dink and the less they attack. There are people that we've seen, and you know, they start coming into the game, and we're like, "Whoa." And then all of a sudden they learn how to play pickleball, and they're like, "Way worse." And they and they quit attacking. They quit being creative. They quit because they think that's how you're supposed to play because they think that's pickleball. So like for me, and I'm an aggression coach. I think you can tell by her and probably Christian that like, I teach aggression. I think that's super important. But don't get locked into like learning the dinks and ignoring the aggression. Like the aggression is super important. I almost, like I said, I almost think you should learn it first.
You have a similar type.
Yeah. Well, yes and no. I feel like a lot of people, let's say they're really good at like volleys, but like she said, they can't dink. So like they're going to spend tons of time trying to get their weaknesses better. I also feel like you should make your strengths better. Like if you have an amazing backhand speed up, like why not make it better? You know what I mean? And I feel like a lot of people like, "My best shot's the serve, so now I'm going to work on the return." Like, you should work on your return, but you should also work on the things you're good at. And I feel like a lot of players sometimes overlook that and just think they need to work on things they're not great at. But it's like, if you could make your strength even better, like that's something you should probably work on, too.
Just listening to to both of you, I think back to the really beginning of the video about the IQ. It seems as if, I mean, this is such a thinking game, and it seems like you're non-stop thinking during the match constantly. You too, as the coach, such a mental, like you see us players like go to the bench and like close our eyes or like or just like stare. We're like constantly like thinking, "What do I do? Like, I need to keep doing this. Like that." Yeah.
Like it, that makes me think, uh, like from a mental standpoint, at the Masters, I think you guys were, you and Ben were playing Tyra and Christian, and you were, I think it was 4-9. And I think Ben missed a return to go to 4-10. It was, or 4-9. And so you called timeout. You guys go to the bench, you close. What was going on at the bench at 4-10 and you're about to lose in that moment? What's, what's going through your head?
I mean, we know we can come back, but at the same time, we've had like absolutely no momentum. So I think that's a thing where like one or two points can kind of change a match. Because we came out of the timeout, we reset a little bit. Nobody missed her turn, and we won those two points. So, honestly, it's like everybody's like, "Oh, did you think you were going to win?" When I'm down 4-10, no. Like, but then once we got the two side outs, I'm like, "Okay, now we have a chance. Like, maybe we could win now."
Yeah. I think if you go back and watch a few of those points when they came back in, it became less about being aggressive, like lowering the risk on their shots. Even I think Ben gets a bunch of high balls here. You can tell he's hitting it hard, but he's not going for outright winners. He's going for placement and spin because you cannot afford to lose those points when you're down 10-4 and they're serving. So, you really have to come in with a mental mindset of like, "Okay, like even if I get that speed up ball, I'm going to take it. I'm not going to not take it, but I've got to be very high percentage with it. And if I get the ball up here, I have to be super high percentage with it." But you also don't want to take that to the extreme and come out and be super tight, like, "I can't miss a ball." It's like somewhere in the middle. It's a, our favorite thing is controlled aggression. Like, and, and like Annie said, we, I mean, obviously we must have gotten lucky in some points as well to come back from 10-4. Like maybe on some of their match points, like I got lucky on a couple backhands or some, or we got lucky and they made an unforced error that they hadn't made like the whole match. And you kind of take it point by point. Like they just made an unforced error, like, "All right, let's hit it to that spot again. Like, make them think." Like, you know what I mean? It's just like a bunch of things combined into one. But I think the main thing is just like belief that like you can come back from that.
Well, to turn it back to you for a second about the belief. I think JW, you're playing JW in Georgia. I think it was San Clemente. Same score.
Same score.
Yeah. So, from your perspective, Lee, because you've, you've watched it from the side. And maybe a two-part question. What is it about her with this like never quit, can always win? Like, so this is actually a cool match that you picked that one because it literally was like 10-4, 10-3. JW and George are serving. They called their last time out, which why you took it at 10 instead of 9, I don't know. She knew something you didn't know. Anyway, um, she comes over to me and like a lot of people would come over and be just totally dejected, like, "We've lost. Like, how did we get to this?" She comes over to me and she's like, "All right, Mom. What do we do? What do I do? I'm not losing this match. What do we do? Tell me what to do." Like, and my dad's like, "You're winning this match." And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm winning this match." Yeah.
I'm like, it's just the belief that you can be down 10-4. And pickleball is a game where you see that happen a lot because people get tight at 10, and it's a game of runs. I actually sped up on both their match points. Sped up balls to JDub's. Yeah. So that's not the really controlled aggression that I was talking about.
Well, no, they were good speed ups. They were controlled. Anything speed upable. I mean, yeah. Well, and honestly, JDub was pushing middle real hard was one reason why they probably got up 10-4. So, going behind him was probably the smart shot. But yeah, just Annalie, like how many singles matches have you come from like death to to winning? It's just, just the knowing I can come back and the belief that you can do it. And it's amazing what the brain can do for you because the minute your brain thinks, "I can't do it," your body literally can't do it. It's like proven science. Whatever you tell yourself in, out loud or in your head, like means so much.
What do you, you tell yourself?
Well, I mean, you hear me obviously on the court. I'm like, "Come on, fight. You got this." Like, "Come on, Annalie." Like, even if I miss a shot, like that was the right idea. Like instead of missing that shot and be like, "Oh, I just missed a shot. That was the right idea." Like, or like even in the matches that I've lost, like halfway through, I'm like, "You're going to win this match." Like, I'm telling myself that. And I, and I lost the match, but I like was believing that I could still win. So I think it's just like always thinking and saying positive thoughts and never like, "Oh, I suck." Like, "Oh, I'm going to lose." Like, you lose two points in a row, throw the paddle, like, you know what I mean? Feel like if you can keep your emotions in check and think positive thoughts, good things will happen.
Well, and, and, and you get frustrated on court. Everybody does. There's a lot of people watching who don't have your skill levels. They probably make more mistakes at times, but like, what would you tell them? Is like they make a mistake. Can they be, is it, is it okay to be angry for five seconds and then just flip back into it?
My mental coach says, because sometimes I'll miss a shot and I'll get so upset with myself. And he's like, "That's honestly why I started like yelling things because I'd do that, and then it's gone." And he's like, "It's okay to go crazy for a second after you miss a bad shot or you miss a shot you should have made. As long as, as right after that, you're getting back into being yourself." Like, you miss a shot, be like, "Oh, Annalie." Like, but then I'm like, "All right, let's go. Next point." I'm just, don't say, "Oh, I suck." Cuz like, try to keep it to some sort of like, like a yell or like a, you know, one of those, but not like a, "Oh, you suck." Like, that's, that's like a way to get that energy out that you might otherwise just like, if you don't say something, you just walk back and then like the thoughts are there.
Are you saying like that's a way to like get it out and then reset?
Hey, well, thanks for doing this. This is amazing. I think for everybody watching, it's going to be really valuable, and I learned a lot too. Like, I'm, I'm going to attack through the middle from now on. Hey, thanks for watching. Make sure you follow Annalie and Lee over on Instagram. Here's their handles right here. And if you want to learn more about my online pickleball school, go to thatpickleballschool.com. We have exclusive content that doesn't exist anywhere else in a structured way to help you get better. You'll get personalized coaching from me and my team, and you'll join a community of obsessed people trying to get better at this game. All right, see you all in the next one. See you.