حكايا في إدارة العلاقات - اختصاصي الطب النفسي دكتور عماد رشاد ضيف برنامج الليوان مع عبدالله المديفر

[Music] Dr. Emad Rashad, guest on the Al-Liwan program with Abdullah Al-Nadeefar. >> Peace, mercy, and blessings of God be upon you. Welcome to Al-Liwan tonight. Stories in managing relationships. Al-Liwan, the story unfolds. In your name, I welcome my guest, the psychiatrist, Dr. Emad Rashad. Welcome, Doctor. >> Welcome, peace be upon you. >> May God keep you safe. >> You know that the scent of Alexandria emanates from you, even if you try to hide it. [Laughter] >> That's a difficult word for us because the scent of Alexandria is fish. [Laughter] I'll say "Shadl." >> Shadl. >> Even the weather in Riyadh today is very suitable for Alexandria's weather. >> What? >> No, I'm not talking about the smell of the sea. >> Hmm. >> I'm talking about... In Alexandria, there's a different character and spirit. I want to know about that spirit, tell me about it. >> No, Alexandria, for me, even my relationship with Alexandria is a very, very deep relationship. Alexandria, I always describe it like this, I describe it as the city that wanted to rebel to emerge from the land. It was indeed Alexandria that was a peninsula. >> And then Alexander connected it to the land, so you feel that it's land that has a symbolic rebellious tendency. That's why this also colors the nature of its people. We have something very famous in Alexandria called "Al-Anwaa." Perhaps this nature is not famous outside. Most people know about the times of storms, dust, and not the best weather conditions. But in Alexandria, there's something very famous called "Al-Nawaa." Al-Nawaa is a very, very violent fluctuation in the mood of this lady, Alexandria. So it's known that Alexandria has moments of turmoil and strange weather changes, and the people of Alexandria are completely at peace with that. I mean, when we see winter or rain at someone else's place and we find people running from it, the people of Alexandria are surprised. They are unusually at peace with the rain. Secondly, Alexandria is associated with being a summer resort. Rain, winter, and storms are associated with Alexandria's return to its people because, generally, those who come from outside Alexandria [Laughter] leave during the winter season. >> Hmm. >> So you feel that it's a return, you know, its people. I don't want you to forget because I will benefit from talking about Alexandria. Alexandria's relationship with the sea, your relationship with Alexandria, I'm taking it to another area. >> But our discussion today is about relationships, and perhaps the question of the self, a person's relationship with themselves, is the most important relationship that shapes perhaps the rest of the relationships. "Who am I?" The big question under the umbrella of the bigger question, "Who are we?" >> Correct. >> It's beautiful that when we take up the topic of relationships, we... we establish a basic rule at the beginning. Relationships are not a space of human existence. They are not a margin we talk about, not a specific angle we will address. Rather, I can be bold and venture and express my concept and opinion and say that human existence itself, in its reality, is a relational product. Every space of our lives. >> You're talking about the self then. >> No, the self exists, but it's a relational existence. And by the way, perhaps I lean towards the linguistic school that does not completely deny nor completely refute the existence of the self, but rather slightly derives from it. You cannot comprehend the existence of the self in isolation from relationships from the very first moment, and perhaps we will discuss this in detail. >> Rather, the relationship of the self with itself is in itself a relationship. So you cannot even talk now about the question "Who am I?" the question of identity, without talking about my relationship with the group, my relationship with the heritage of this group, my relationship with my perception of myself and the concept of self. So there is a relationship within every space related to this soul, this existence. >> So you will find it related in some way to the topic of relationships. So when we take the first relationship, the self with itself, or a person's relationship with themselves, or a person's relationship with their image, their concept of themselves, which ultimately forms what we call identity, we will find that this matter is a path of great crisis and a real dilemma. And perhaps, if we start with the story that you will find most widespread now and the most we hear is the idea of the distinguished young man who has potential and is lost. His confusion always stems from the idea, "Who am I?" And you will always find it followed by the question, "Who am I? What do I want?" So the question of identity is always linked to what is related to desire. A self that does not know who it is and whose perception of itself is stable and stable in this perception cannot move towards a desire or transform this desire into a project. Therefore, many young people and what I can call existential confusion, existential anxiety, the state of nausea that afflicts some young people with the idea, "I don't know how to unite." You find young people who truly have extraordinary qualities, very distinguished, but you find them in a state of stagnation, a state of dispersion, a state of confusion, a state sometimes of drifting behind many spaces, a desire to find themselves. So the first thing we will find ourselves talking about is the idea of identity and the relationship of this self with the concept of... >> But now, I'm taking you to two paths from the introduction you made, and you'll answer them. The first is about relationships, which I felt is that the self is not a single self, but a collection of selves, let's say, shared selves that relationships nurture and that are shaped by pains, failures, successes, and ambitions. I understand you. >> Very much so. What you're saying is very close to a great psychologist named Edward Glover, who had a similar concept. He said that the ego, or if we say, in a generalized way, and this is not entirely accurate, the ego equals the self, as a generalization so as not to get people into very technical or specialized terms. He used to say that this self is formed from nuclei, plural nuclei. These nuclei melt through this relationship with the other to form this concept. >> Let me give a very small example, perhaps this is what can be imagined by all of us if we go through the experience of fatherhood or motherhood. The child at first cannot recognize themselves, cannot know who they are, and cannot even move this hand to reach their mouth. They cannot control this body. So the body at this moment is fragmented. The muscles do not have the ability of coordination that can perform the movement. >> Hmm. >> And at the same time, they have never seen their reflection, nor do they know who they are. But the only thing they have seen, and the first thing they see and their eyes fall upon, is not just the mother, but the mother's gaze directed at them, the mother's care for them, and her love for them. So the first self-awareness is when they were the object of another's love, another's gaze, another's desire. >> So the first feeling of this self when it was the object of love. That's why when you told me at first, "You are denying the existence of the self," I am not denying it, but I am putting it in its place. We will not give it the form that individualism, capitalism, and others promote, that the self is... no, the matter is now understood. This self is a subsequent product. >> A relational product. >> Before I love, perhaps I receive this love. Before I have the ability to love, the ability to communicate to say, "I want," I received this gaze from the mother. And we have a very nice concept in pediatrics called "Al-Muwalledin." What is it? >> The fragmented infant, when placed in the mother's embrace, they say she gathers him to the extent that at this moment, this infant's body is gathered, replacing the state of fragmentation. And when he looks at this gaze, he knows that she is looking at something precious to him, highly valued, something very dear. So he knows himself and his body for the first time. The child, if they see a mirror, a child who is a year old or a year and a month old, if they see their reflection in the mirror, they don't recognize it. They even think it's another child, an adversary. >> Until the mother comes and tells him, "This is you. This is your body." At that moment, he sees the manifestation of this body and its image in the mirror. And what makes him recognize it and establish the relationship in the first place, in a state of alienation from this child or from the image that is in this mirror, is this mother through this gesture. >> Therefore, the self, its beginning was there through this maternal gaze that gathered this fragmented body, gathered the self's concept of itself. She told him, "Who are you?" She told him, "You are a mischievous boy," or "You are a well-behaved boy," or "You are a good boy," or something else. She told him, "You look like your father." So she started giving him a concept, giving him notions about the self. This completely melted into an initial part, I won't say completely, to form the identity, an initial part of this person's identity. >> Now, this is the first part. The second part, or the second path that I'm trying to reach through your words, you keep saying that there's a state of confusion sometimes in the search for "Who am I?" >> Correct. >> How does a person reach this great existential question, "Who am I?" >> Beautiful, beautiful. There's also a very important psychologist named James Marcia, who did a beautiful classification of identity crises. And I believe this is one of the most important issues, and perhaps I haven't presented it publicly before, that young people might need very much now. It's the idea of what we go through for identity to form and stabilize, and what we go through for an identity crisis, and why some people experience identity crises in youth and others experience them later. >> So he said that the formation of human identity is divided into two main paths. Each path, depending on your choice, will be the final component. Let's explain it slowly. The first path is the path of self-exploration by entering, trying, and testing many options. >> The first path is the path of experimentation. >> Experimentation and exploration. The other path is the path of commitment and choosing one of these options. Now, let's break it down. Some people will have a lot of exploration, and some will have little exploration. Some will have a lot of commitment, and some will have little commitment. Therefore, we are now facing a four-model. >> First, an experimenter who is committed. An experimenter who is not committed. A committed person who has not experimented. A committed person who has not experimented, not committed. >> Right. It will be a bit complicated. Let's simplify it with stories. >> Okay. >> We'll come to the first part. When I say someone has a lot of exploration, they are an experimenter, and a lot of commitment. A person has tried many options, tested themselves in more than one passion, more than one hobby, sometimes in more than one specialization. That's why many universities and studies give you a major and a minor, give you two specializations, so you can try. Like in medicine, we try many specializations. So you start testing, tasting yourself in these different specializations, in these different experiences, in these different paths. You start exploring them, trial and error. You go and try, and sometimes things go well, and sometimes there are mistakes. So the first thing that happened was experimentation, then this person decided to commit to something or more of these options. This type is the ideal, exemplary type that we call achieved identity. So what is achieved identity? It's a person who has tried their options and then decided to commit, choose, and give up many options. Perhaps the options they choose will be two. You find a hobby and, for example, a job. You find a specific specialization and perhaps readings in another specialization. But they can never go through all these options to the end. So this is the first model. This is the ideal model that we will put aside for now because this is what we want to reach. The model of achieved identity. There is another person, and this is one of the things I want to emphasize with a thousand lines. High exploration. A distinguished young man with different potentials, talents, and gifts. He can indeed, his potential allows him to succeed in more than one thing, and he receives support from those around him. "Bravo, you are good, and a good speaker, and you are distinguished in this." So the options available to him are wide, and he decided to try. But he has another crisis. Where is the commitment? Unfortunately, and honestly, he's a bit greedy. He wants them all. He has a crisis in convincing himself that he cannot be everything he can be. I won't say everything. No, he can indeed be. He's unable to give up some of these options. And this is a crisis that, frankly, we have all gone through. Even in the Egyptian dialect, there's a beautiful proverb that says, "Seven crafts, and the luck is lost." >> Lost. >> That is, the distinguished, competent boy. And by the way, many fathers and mothers have a son or daughter like this. So he has great dispersion, he has... >> He can be everything. >> Exactly. But he cannot complete anything. So the final result is zero. What do we call this? We call it the identity of wasted energy. He has a lot of energy, but it's wasted. His identity cannot be completed, even though he's making an effort, even though he's distinguished, even though he's involved in many areas, even though his day is packed, you find him going from one thing to another. But in the end, the result is almost zero. You find in the end that he cannot, for example. >> The third idea is clear. >> Yes. He cannot settle in his job or anything else. The third is that he has little exploration, but quick commitment. What does that mean? A person, for example, was born into a family working in a certain profession, so he decided to inherit this profession. So there is no experimentation with options. We will commit to a specific job early on. But have you explored yourself enough? No. I got married to the first woman, for example, that my mother offered me, and worked in the first job, and even sometimes inherited it, and didn't try, and didn't ask at all. Here, this identity, we call it early closure of identity, premature identity. What does premature identity mean? A person who hasn't tried, but has already committed. So what's the problem? This is a good thing. This means he will achieve many things early on. The crisis here is that exploration must drive him. He must test himself in more than one thing. And this is what leads this young man, very early on, to decide early. Let's not be too happy about it. This sometimes scares us. >> He will flip in the second half of his life. >> Here comes the midlife crisis, or the late identity crisis, or sometimes it's called the more difficult name, late adolescence. The nice story of the woman who sits on the kitchen floor and starts thinking, "What brought me here? And this man? And this job I'm doing? And who are these children?" Simply, she entered a premature identity earlier than necessary. The man who, after great success, very great success, might demolish the work he built, a legend, reached a great stage. All of this might lead him to think about marrying again at a certain stage, or rediscovering masculinity in multiple relationships. And we reach the idea of late adolescence, which is often a premature truncation of this identity. You know the premature infant who is born small, underdeveloped. So part of the growth is confusion. That's why we always tell parents, when you find your son in moderate confusion, don't be afraid, as long as it's appropriate for his age and takes its time. >> In a state of normal experimentation. >> This is normal. The fourth is the person who has neither good exploration >> nor good commitment. Is he making an effort? No. Has he committed to anything specific? No. This is what we call, and it's the most difficult form, the form of psychological paralysis, or what we call diffused identity. Identity diffusion. A person simply has no... no, indeed, any form of identity has been formed, and they have no experiences or trials to even ask about to help them reach their identity. So our crisis here is that we have a crisis either in exploration or in commitment. >> And therefore, the ideal choice is that one tries to explore as much as possible in the beginning and moves horizontally. And when they go through many experiences, they stop and say, "I am here." But the question is, let me take identity from another angle. Let me take it from the angle of pain. >> Old pain and new pain. Can old pain turn into identity? >> Identity in itself. And this is from... >> Can new pain change this identity? >> Hmm. Beautiful question. Let's say that pains, just as early experiences shape identity, pains also contribute to shaping this identity. The child who was exposed... We spoke a little while ago about the ideal situation where the mother gathered the child's fragmentation and dispersion and gave him a formula or concept of himself. No, let's imagine a different system. Let's imagine a child who went through, or a young man who went through, or a woman who went through, in the early stages, intense pain that was beyond her ability to bear. It challenged all her capabilities to try to overcome it, but she couldn't. So these pains turned into what we can call traumas or severe pressures. Here, at this moment, I always say an important sentence: pain that is not transformed into a narrative for this self is adopted as identity. >> Meaning? >> Meaning, I knew myself through this pain. This familiar pain became the area through which I knew who I am. Let me give a very small example. >> The example might clarify. >> Yes, for example, a child who is always described in some homes as the mischievous child, the troublemaker. And sometimes he's given names. This might symbolize or describe or attribute to another person, for example, a criminal, a harmful person, or someone who has gone out of the family's bounds. So this child, the troublemaker, through his troublemaking, constant reprimand, and constant blame, began to form the identity of the troublemaker. >> And another identity began to form: the idea of constant blame. This child will grow up if he cannot understand what happened, if he doesn't put what happened to him into a narrative. He doesn't know exactly what happened, how it happened, and he starts telling himself a story. "I was in pain, and I went through this, but I am not that person." Here, if he can narrate this narrative and put it without blaming others, without casting blame, and using others as an excuse, and without living the victim role, if he can get through this and put it into a narrative that has passed, but some people start to know themselves through this pain. And sometimes they even use this pain to shirk responsibility. >> So pain becomes identity. >> Exactly. Simply, I am the troublemaker. I was in pain, and I went through all of this. You haven't seen how much I was hurt, how much I suffered, how much I was humiliated, how much I was beaten. What do you expect from me? What do you want from me? How do I get out of this? To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So you find, for example, someone who was raised in an environment of suffering or humiliation. You find her, even in her marriage, starting to live a good moral privilege. >> Yes. >> Here's the disaster. He starts using this to see himself as better, to see himself as... to justify frustration. So he sees in this pain, in his prostration, in his crushing, in receiving this pain, a moral privilege. "I can endure. I am the enduring woman. I am the patient woman. I am the supportive woman. I am the giver. I am the one who bears the pain of others. I am the ascetic. I am the one who offers their honor to others." To the extent that here we are not talking about religious aspects that are done voluntarily and out of love. We are talking about compulsive behavior due to excessive prostration within relationships because he now knows himself through the model of the patient. I'll give you another strange example. This person, for example, a woman, her husband humiliates her, for example, excessively. So she started to know herself through the model of the patient, the enduring woman. The disaster is that if this husband repents and returns, she will suffer because she doesn't know herself outside of this pain. She doesn't know who she is. If she's not the patient woman, she's not... In all religions, and even in high cultures, there's this meaning of transforming pain into meaning to alleviate it. For example, loss. They say, "This is divine will and destiny" to alleviate it. >> That's the narrative we're talking about. >> Yes, the narrative. And by the way, this is one of the things we advocate for. It's the narrative. We derive a lot from religious heritage to transform pain into a narrative, a narrative of altruism, a narrative of trial, a narrative of a person who, through these pains, their personality is refined, and it gives them, for example, anxiety, or radiance, or a certain psychological strength. This is very much needed. For us, it's something appreciated. But the problem is what? The problem is when it's compulsive. Our friend who is healthy, who sees pain as a trial, can stop others from hurting him when he wants. But the one whose pain is a narrative, he doesn't have the luxury of choice. He doesn't know how to say no. If you ask him for anything, he will be crushed because without consent, he experiences intense guilt and alienation. To the extent that he doesn't know himself outside the situation of blame. So he always expects blame from others. And sometimes, unconsciously, he might start to confirm this image in others and remain in it. So you find him sometimes turning to addiction, turning to delinquency in adolescence or otherwise. >> He says, "I am in pain." He says, "I am the pain itself." >> This pain has become something that has suffocated this self and surrounded it. >> So he started looking at the world from the angle of the wound, not from the lens of reality. >> Correct. I'll tell you something else that's very famous. He starts to know himself through the model of the patient, the suffering, the crushed. So

Today, what will it be, I wonder? How is my relationship with men? At this moment, will I see myself in a chat or in an interrogation, like I used to be afraid, for example, when talking to my father at a certain time? What has happened is that we are not building an authentic relationship. Rather, there is always a legacy of my relationships, there is always a reservoir of lingering feelings that I have from my past relationships that present themselves and color the lens through which I view this relationship. So, my relationship with my wife will be governed by my relationship with my mother, my relationship with my sisters, my relationship with my aunts, and my relationship with the women who have passed through my life. My relationship with my husband will be governed by our relationship. Or rather than saying governed, so as not to discourage people, it will be influenced in a way. >> Meaning, we are victims of our relationships. The victim does not agree, but we are influenced. Because here, when we say, do the first relationships completely govern, are they completely controlling our current relationship? No, they are influential, not controlling. >> Influential, because in a book I read, I needed to ask you about it. It says, fathers think that with their slaps, they are preparing us for a harsh world. They don't know that their slaps have given fear a homeland within our souls. >> Hmm. >> And this makes me say, you say that the first interaction with a child can prepare him for life, and it can be a stumbling block and destroy part of his life. >> Exactly. >> When is the interaction beneficial, and when is it harmful and easy? >> Beautiful. And I care about this part too, so that we don't discourage people and make them feel idealistic, as some theories or theoretical forms of upbringing and relationships sometimes call for. >> I completely believe that within every relationship there is a gap that cannot be crossed, and within every relationship between a father and his son, there is a measure of obligatory deprivation. Every time my father tells me, "No, turn off the PlayStation and go to sleep," that is a measure of deprivation because I want something specific, but the father will come with care, turn it off, and say no. So we always say that upbringing, in the end, enters as a measure of deprivation that leads to some frustration. Is that bad? I will say something very difficult, honestly. If it weren't for that, we wouldn't have been able to bear the world. Deprivation is foundational to self-formation. A little while ago, I said that without deprivation, there would be no desire. >> Without deprivation, there is no human at all. >> Meaning, deprivation is positive? >> Yes, there is a form of deprivation. So we have two types of positive deprivation: deprivation that is foundational to the self, which is the original gap that establishes desire, and there is educational deprivation, which is represented by the laws, upbringing, and values that we instill in children. So we sometimes prevent them from some of their needs, or from some of their desires, or from some, you know, the chaotic form that they might sometimes ask for. So, will this deprivation have a negative effect? No, without it, the child will not be able to bear the frustration of the world. >> So this deprivation is extremely positive. The father's fatherhood and his care. >> This is a positive thing. And what is not positive? >> That this deprivation increases and becomes influential on this self. And here we will enter two other stages: influential deprivation and harmful deprivation. Influential deprivation is when there is a gap in the relationship with this father or mother. Let's say this child needed to be seen, to be proud of him, to be cared for, to be listened to. But there was a gap, a little wider than the original gap. There was negligence. Does this necessarily result in a mentally ill person? No, it will result in a person with a slightly wider gap, who will have needs, who will be more sensitive to certain needs. And this is what gives each personality its special coloring. So you find that so-and-so has a need for recognition, and so-and-so has a need for achievement, and so-and-so has a greater need, for example, to be told good things, and so-and-so has excessive sensitivity if threatened with loss. So here, deprivation exists and is influential, but we will not say that it is hindering or incapacitating because it has colored this self. So this is a >> Meaning, if I give the child love, recognition, a sense of acceptance, and a sense of respect, and that you are accepted in the home, and then I give him some deprivation, it won't have a significantly negative effect. >> But when there is a lack of these things and I give him deprivation, it might be influential. Will it necessarily result in a mentally ill person or not? It is influential. >> When we talk about this deprivation becoming extreme, it becomes the norm that this father is constantly insulting this child, or this mother is constantly abandoning him. And this is a bit rarer. Here, deprivation begins to hinder this personality. So you find two effects: either extreme distress in this person all the time, he has pain, or an inability to perform his function. He doesn't know how to study, he doesn't know how to work sufficiently. The deprivation here has begun to turn into causing disorders, causing ailments. The deprivation here has become hindering the normal functioning of love and work. Here, intervention is necessary. It is necessary to re-read the narrative of this self and to identify the places of these deprivations and deal with them. Because here we are not talking about mere deprivation, but rather about interventions that are sometimes traumatic. >> But sometimes, fathers deal with the model of abandonment, for example. >> Exactly. >> Is it bad or good? >> Well, here too, since we are talking about duality, there is no abandonment. Sometimes, perhaps, exactly. Sometimes it can pass. A father has a very large balance, and then at one moment, he makes it easy, for example, a certain way of abandonment, or of estrangement, or of silence. It happened. We will not say that it is ideal, but we will not say that everything is closed. And there was indeed a very important model called the "good enough father" model. There is no such thing as the ideal father or the good father. The good enough father, the good enough mother. You are waking us up to the mistakes of good fathers. Some mistakes sometimes. >> For example, shame, resentment. >> Ah, no, here we have entered into what? Into the stage of influential deprivation and what? Harmful deprivation. We are telling it now. The effects of trauma. We always bring the word and divide it into the nice quartet, which is its idea. >> Yes, we have a feeling of abandonment or non-belonging, a feeling of shame, a feeling of resentment, and a feeling of paralyzing fear. Always four things happen with it. Because it is the person you always see, you find it in most psychological illnesses and most disorders. These are people who grew up. >> On trauma, or grew up on severe deprivation, or harsh or other interventions. You find a feeling of non-belonging, that I am an outcast, or unacceptable, or I cannot belong in a certain place. And this leads me to a crisis in identity. Because he will never know how to explore sufficiently, or commit sufficiently. Or you find the person who is always expecting disaster, expecting a catastrophe, always suspicious, always with a feeling of the possibility of punishment, extreme anxiety about the future. He cannot surrender. He doesn't even know how to swim. He cannot let himself go. So this is the person who has the fear that he grew up with from a young age and it became part of this identity or psyche. The third form is shame. It is a person who has beyond feelings of guilt and sin. Beyond the feeling that I have done wrong things. I am wrong in myself. I am wrong in myself. >> Not actually. >> Yes, exactly. Not an action, I did something wrong. No, I am wrong in myself. A feeling of extreme aversion and self-hatred. >> This can happen to some. The fourth is resentment. Resentment is simply anger that did not find an opportunity to be released, so it festered inside due to helplessness, so it simply turned into a rigged bomb. All the time, ready to explode. A person you always find him nervous, extremely tense, waiting for the moment to explode. Exactly. The most we see is the idea of when you are driving and someone cuts you off. You find extreme violence, unusual anger. You sometimes find this anger directed at safe targets, towards our children, towards the people we love. The slightest thing can spoil the day, and you find it appearing. The anger that is a debt to these old pains. >> Is it sad to be a supporting actor in the movie of your life? >> Yes. >> This will take us back to the idea that I always love Paul Ricoeur's definition of identity or self, that the self always defines itself through its heroism in the story. Any person who doesn't feel like the hero of his story has a crisis. That's why they used to say that there are two types of self-narration. Either the narration of the sufferer, the narration of the self that always feels that it is defeated, that things happen to it, that it has been harmed, and it is waiting to see when it will be punished and when the world will go wrong. These are the people who always say, "They did this to me, and they made me feel this way," always with a feeling of being defeated, as if they were a feather in the wind. And sometimes they attribute this to fate, so they use fate to make the self feel this state of weakness and paralysis. >> So this is the form of sick narration or the poisoned narration of the self. And another form of narration, which is after recovery, is called the primary narration, the redemptive narration. Which is simply, he begins to read the story in a way that is different from the idea of who was the abuser and why did he do this to me? To the idea of what happened to me, what are its effects, how can I get out of it, and what do I want next? >> Yes. >> This is in a completely different way, a way that involves active narration. Instead of me waiting and frozen in this past, and this is one of the things that always raises suspicions around why we dig into the past and so on. We dig into the past sometimes because we are sometimes frozen there. We want to get out of the victim role. So we will have to re-read the past in order to free ourselves from this role and start going towards this primary narration, in which the person becomes the hero of his story. Who am I? I suffered. This suffering was obstacles, challenges, difficulties, pains. Then what do I want? And what can I do to overcome this? I always give the example of you have a car and you are driving it on the road. This car is literally yourself. Someone came and hit you from behind. >> Then he escaped. You didn't know if it was insurance or what. You just escaped. You are driving. So you have two options: either you sit next to this car, crying, waiting for him to come back to apologize, or to take responsibility for? >> For repairing it. Or you take your car and go to the nearest shop, or the nearest place, or the nearest workshop for? >> For what was done. Some people sit next to their damaged selves from old pains and keep crying and waiting for an apology. I understand that, and we don't want to diminish it. But sometimes, what happened, what hurt, what caused pain, will never come back to apologize, will never say I'm sorry, or even admit what happened, or compensate. Sometimes we need to drive this car and go with it to the repair center. The first model is the poisoned narration, the paralyzing narration, the narration of continuous crying, or continuous self-pity, or "poor me," as we call it, self-pity. The other narration is the redemptive narration, which is our role in driving the car and taking responsibility for our recovery. And this is the point I always make: we are perhaps not responsible for the pains, but we are responsible for our recovery and liberation from them. >> Beautiful. I continue this conversation with you. "Shashat Alwan" has a collection of materials that the young people have prepared. >> Fear the "Shashat Alwan" screen. [Laughter] A nice screen. >> The screen that Dr. Emad Rashad fears awaits you. Don't go far. Welcome to "Shashat Alwan." I renew my welcome to my guest, the psychiatrist Dr. Emad Rashad. Doctor, "Shashat Alwan" has a collection of materials. >> Let's get into it. >> Let's get into it. Let's go. Are you [music] kidding me? I thought I'd be married. I already love you. I love you as much as I love you. I can't be bothered. You're not the trouble it would take to get to you. You're not the powder it would take to blow you up. You mean, in every movie, but in this movie, in all cultures, among all peoples, love is associated with pain. Even on a personal level, I remember the first school, the first school I taught in. The first sentence I read in my life on a wall was on the wall of that school. It was the sentence: "Love is torment." Okay, let's just say an important point. Perhaps I don't agree that the relationship that existed, whether in the movie "Marriage Story" or "Revolutionary Road," was a harmful relationship, meaning because people now easily use the term "harmful relationship" or "toxic" or whatever on any relationship that has difficulties. >> Yes. >> And let's say frankly, love is not torment. Rather, love simply requires a great deal of awareness and risk to work on it. >> No, the question is, is the fate of love, love? >> To be tormenting? >> To be faith? >> No, this is where we completely disagree. Is the fate of love to be tormenting? No. Here we begin. If it causes pain, it is not love at all. If it causes pain, what does it mean? It means continuous pain, constant energy drain. And this is what distinguishes a harmful relationship from a relationship with difficulties. But what about a relationship with difficulties? Every relationship has them. >> There is no relationship without difficulties. There is no relationship. The idea that you are exposed to another and are vulnerable, meaning you are exposed to pain, to being hurt, to the other having the ability to change your mood, to lift you up a little and bring you down a little, and that he truly has this effect, like the effect of our wives. So it is completely natural that this is difficult. It is not easy to be exposed to another and to tell him your weaknesses, your pains, your fears. It is never easy. And for you to be able to contain the feelings of another and their exposure is not easy at all. So any relationship in the world has difficulties. >> And there is another additional difficulty in relationships, which is that any relationship also has what we were talking about a little while ago: a gap that I cannot fully understand you as you want to say. A husband cannot fully understand his wife, nor can a wife understand her husband 100%. There must be a gap. >> But what are these gaps? This is an important question. You are talking about, you said a little while ago that every relationship has a gap. >> Right. >> This means that the gap is of two types: gaps that I can understand, and gaps that I cannot understand? >> Or let's say, I can understand all the gaps. >> Or let's say that gaps have sizes. Small gaps and big gaps. >> And more importantly than understanding the gap, what are the gaps that I can cross and overcome, and what are the gaps that I cannot cross or overcome? >> Exactly. >> So there is a natural existential gap, a gap of existence. It is said, "Nothing scratches your skin like your own fingernail." And no matter how much we are among people, there is a degree of loneliness associated with our existence in this world that you cannot completely abandon or overcome permanently. There will be a degree of difference in every relationship. There will be a degree of independence. I can, and this is a healthy relationship, that I can be myself despite my differences, and the other understands and accepts it. This is the healthy form. But sometimes the gap is much more difficult. It could be a gap of values. It is very difficult for me to have a lasting relationship with someone whose value system or matrix of values, the way he sees the world and sees what is right and what is good, is completely and fundamentally different from the way I see the world. >> And this is the most difficult gap, the gap that can never be crossed or tolerated: that the other person does not see me as a human being with individuality, but merely as a tool for satisfaction. >> A tool for satisfying needs. A tool for fulfilling needs. What we call an instrumental relationship. This is the crisis of harmful relationships. That one of the parties turns into a tool, an instrument, constantly required to fulfill the needs of the other. Here we are talking about a harmful relationship. So a harmful relationship in its origin is a relationship that drains energy, does not help achieve your life goals, does not improve life. You find that when you go into the relationship, your energy is drained, you cannot succeed sufficiently. And the most important thing about it is that it has an instrumental nature, where one person is used. But let me say, before harmful relationships, why do many relationships fail and people separate after great desire and deep love? >> Yes, but that's a question that needs four episodes. [Laughter] to be able to cover the reasons for relationship failure. It's very difficult, but we can say, based on what we've said and what's related to our discussion today, that sometimes the reason for relationship failure is related to one of the parties' inability to accept the gap and its naturalness. This is the first reason. What is it? Meaning, within the relationship, there are idealistic expectations. >> Someone entering the relationship sees that he is supposed to fulfill everything for her, understand her without her thinking, without her speaking, without her expressing, and that he is this valiant knight capable of being a support all the time. The form of excessive expectations, that she imagines, or he imagines, that the heat of love will always remain, that it doesn't need to turn into affection and that she sees affection as lukewarm. No, I don't want lukewarmness. I want what? I want this constant burning heat. The inability of one or both parties to tolerate the existence of a gap in the relationship, and that the lukewarmness, or a degree of lukewarmness, and the maturity of the relationship, transforms it from a state of burning love to a state of affection and stable tranquility, a state of longing, a state of nostalgia from restless longing to a gentle nostalgia that can be lived with. Some people reject this, so they interpret this model and the natural gap in the relationship as a drought in the relationship. The relationship has become boring. Or sometimes, the matter becomes even worse. They don't enter the relationship from the beginning, or they don't enter the relationship because it doesn't have enough drama, not enough action, and they imagine that action, drama, shouting, and continuous conflict is the form of love. >> So this is the first reason for relationship failure: expectations are demanded of the person, and there is a crisis in them. Another reason is that the selection process itself has a problem. That the selection process was based on duality. What is it? Either it was a purely emotional choice, with no rational intervention, or a purely rational choice, with no emotional intervention. So any choice based on this polarization must, at some point, bring out the other part. It will present itself in the relationship, and we will feel a degree of disappointment. Or one of the parties. >> Has a disorder or crises from the reservoir of his relationships, which he projects into this relationship, poisoning it. He already has a crisis in trusting. Imagine this person, for example, who cannot trust, cannot get close, always interprets anything the other person does as an attempt to harm him, or hurt him, or abandon him, or betray him. It is very, very difficult to live with people who have this reservoir, this huge reservoir of unaddressed pains, because the only way to address them, unfortunately, is within the relationship. >> But what makes me fall into the trap of parallel relationships? >> Yes. >> The first reason for falling is what we call the compulsion of repetition. >> Compulsion of repetition. What is compulsion of repetition? Freud used to say a very nice word: "Man re-creates the circumstances that led him to pain, in order to obtain a different result, and perhaps calls this fate." >> It needs explanation. >> Explanation, then. >> Meaning, I went through traumas, old pains, I went through a failed marriage experience that involved, for example, a woman who didn't respect me, a woman who didn't appreciate me, a woman who didn't see me as worthy. So I come out of this relationship with a wound. This wound needs healing. So, is healing, and this is man's problem, is healing going to a woman who respects me? This is the problem. Sometimes, if our minds do a very cunning move, they say, "No, she didn't love me." So I will find someone exactly like her and make her love me. >> And repeat the same circumstances. >> And seek a different outcome. >> Exactly. So I go and marry someone with the compulsion of repetition, who has the potential to hurt me, and I imagine that I have achieved a different outcome and will make her love me. And this leads us to the second model, the rescuer model. A very famous model. "I can fix them." And women in distress. And men in distress. "I can fix him." The woman in distress has an attraction. The disturbed, suffering woman has an attraction. The bad boy, the mischievous man with problems, the broken, shattered man has an attraction sometimes for some women. Why? Because she feels that this will bring about a kind of self-healing. When I can fix this man, it means I have a very big role in this world. I am not just anyone. I was able to fix this man who is not suitable for love. I was able to save this woman who is not suitable for love. So sometimes we enter relationships that are doomed to failure and impossibility with people who have a great deal of disturbance, in order to have this effect: that I am strong, and I didn't. >> But this idea is now famous among psychologists as the "bad boy" attraction. >> Exactly. >> Why? >> Exactly. It's more than one reason. The first reason is that it often resembles an old trauma. I'll give you an example. Sometimes, with good people with whom we might feel comfortable, we might feel, not aversion, but a sense of familiarity, normal. Why? Because they are not like us. They are not like the person before. Wherever this pain came from, wherever. >> So, let's imagine that, for example, I have a disturbed relationship with a brother, a disturbed relationship with a teacher at school. A difficult experience that made me feel unworthy of a woman's respect. I will constantly look for someone who resembles that teacher. Therefore, her attraction to me will be higher. The attraction of the bad boy, who is actually like our old selves, and our frustrations and disappointments, will naturally be higher. Because he will give me two things: one, he is willing to repeat the repetition with me to a greater extent. Second, I can fix him. I can do something. I can save him. He will also feed the rescuer tendency within me. But all, three or four questions, in one way or another, confirm the importance of paying attention to old pains. >> To old pains, but not necessarily that these old pains must be, and parents, and so on. And paying attention to old pains does not mean at all, at all, that we use them as an excuse or blame them too much. The end of recovery, we reach the idea that this father and this mother did their best. >> No, no, I mean, even to be well or more well, do I have to search in old diaries for old pains so that new experiences are better? >> In one case only. >> Which is? >> There was a nice philosopher named Georges Gusdorf. He wrote about those who suffered from the past and did not resolve it, that they will keep repeating it. They will keep repeating it when this past does not leave us. >> Meaning, we always say, we have a nice rule: "Don't scratch where it doesn't itch." Right? So if this past doesn't itch me, why should I open it? I won't open it. But there is a very important problem when the past casts its shadow on the present. When I enter every relationship, I am afraid of being abandoned. Every relationship I enter, I don't know how to trust. Every relationship I enter, I feel unappreciated. I feel like I'm. >> Meaning, when my problems with relationships repeat themselves, I say, "Ah, I have an old problem, I need to go back to it." >> Here we need to go back to it. Sometimes, in the forms of relationships and harmful relationships, sometimes the problem is not with the harmful party, but with the harmed party. The harmed party sees himself as someone who must burn so that this person can be warmed. I must be crushed so that this person feels satisfied. >> And this is part of a large system that we were raised on. This system, whether from movies, you know those Disney movies with the prince and the sacrificing princess and the prince. It's the idea that sacrifice is related to love, as if there is no room for everyone. It's like there's only one slice of pizza. I take it, he takes it. We can't both take it. We can't both be satisfied. So we were raised, unfortunately, not just here, but generally culturally, that love is torment, and that sacrifice is a sign of love, and that we must give until we burn. And this is the true indication of. >> Of being on the right track in love. And sometimes, as a result of what we said a little while ago, I have a crisis in identity. I don't know who I am outside. So this relationship will give me a sense of identity. That I am simply the husband who burns for her happiness, or her enlightenment, or her warmth. >> The idea of narcissism always causes controversy, exaggeration, marginalization, or lack of clarity. Are you a narcissist? Are you selfish? You are. From a question, we want to understand. >> Yes. >> The narcissist is good, and the other party in the equation, and how can the relationship be, and how can it be? Should the relationship have boundaries or not? Is it blurring or not? I want to hear from you. >> Unfortunately, narcissism is a term that has been extremely exploited and trivialized. It has been used so much that anyone who is in pain will describe them as narcissistic because it is an easy description. It relieves the burden of responsibility from oneself. It is very easy to say, "He is a narcissist," and that's it. Although, in reality, narcissists do not exceed 2% of the world's population. But when you look at the internet, you find that all men are narcissists and all women are extremely narcissistic. So, when we talk about narcissism, we are talking about a psychological concept. >> Yes. >> Related to two points. The first point is a natural stage of growth. The second point is a disorder. Let's explain it slowly. Every child in the world is born initially narcissistic. Why? Because >> Every child. >> Exactly. Because he must be narcissistic at first in order to be able to feed and survive. The mother, for him, is nothing more than a process of feeding and affection. It is here to satisfy what I want. Then he grows up a little, and he can move towards the other, towards loving this mother and understanding that she is a self with her own needs and dreams. So he can move from narcissism to the other. But some people freeze at this stage. They freeze in narcissism. So what happens? They begin to see the whole world, or other people, as mere tools for their feeding and satisfaction. And here, at this moment, there is a shortening of the other. The other exists here to give me supply, to give me this constant charging, this narcissistic fuel. So here, I am a person with arrested development, with arrested relational development, not complete. There has been a problem. This is what leads to narcissistic, disordered narcissism. Disordered narcissism can be present in different disorders. People, a person who has experienced severe deprivation, and you might find with him. When we are sick, we become excessively narcissistic. If I am physically ill, I will be very narcissistic, I can't stand anyone, and I want everyone to take care of me. It's like they say that physical pain brings a person back to an early stage of narcissism. This is natural. So there is a part of narcissism that is natural in all of us. When it becomes excessive and permeates the person's being, it becomes a pervasive monster in your entire being. So you begin to shorten the children, just because they carry the name, regardless of what they have, what their desires are, what their hopes are. The wife for the sake of this. The husband for the sake of this. Others become a means of connection with them. At that point, we are in the realm of narcissism. So, does this mean that I now have narcissistic personality disorder? No, I have a trait. A trait that this has become a little monstrous. That the part that exists in us has become excessively monstrous. Here, if it becomes excessively monstrous and becomes the main characteristic of this personality, then we begin to talk about narcissistic personality disorder. The person who cannot see others at all. So this is the form. Are all those who are described as narcissists? And does the word narcissism, with all the negative connotations it carries now, deserve this? No, of course not. This is not true at all. Not all harmful relationships are with narcissists. Sometimes the matter is different. Not everyone who uses you necessarily has narcissistic personality disorder. So, the people who reach this extreme form are a very, very small percentage. So we have a wide spectrum of forms of using others within a relationship. >> Yes. >> But on the other side, how do I deal with someone who has the potential for this narcissism to become more and more prevalent? >> Well, we always say that as soon as you find a process of polarization, know that there is a crisis here. Blame-shifting. You find, he is the narcissist, so I am looking for the solution. >> We always say that it was not a coincidence that I fell into a harmful relationship. We agreed a little while ago that I might have old pains, or a rescuer tendency, or a people-pleasing tendency, or a problem with boundaries. So the first step, the first step in dealing with any relationship is to look at my own paper, to look at myself, to know why I ended up in this place. What led me to this position? Usually, every person who has a problem in a relationship that drains him, that harms him, usually has a problem with boundaries. Where do I end and where does the other begin? To what extent can the other transgress my boundaries in a way that causes harm? So the first thing I need. I might not be able to change the other, but I can change my response to him. So we need to first believe in a very important concept: that the beginning of change is my responsibility for changing myself, not changing the harmful, narcissistic other. So that people say, "Since he's a narcissist, let's get divorced." So, the question is, what led me to this? What do I have? What can this narcissist teach me about my boundaries? So the first thing is, I look at my own paper, I see the pains I might be repeating from this relationship. I see something that exists in this moment, which is the boundary. A boundary defect that I need to work on. After I change my response, regardless of the other, change will happen. What is it? Meaning, we cannot change them, but we can change our response. So, when he used to provoke me by arousing my jealousy, I now don't respond in the same way, and I refuse the matter in a non-hysterical way. So he will stop this. >> Because this action will stop being effective if it doesn't harm me or arouse what was satisfying for him. So changing myself and my awareness of what happened from old pains and adjusting my boundaries, perhaps sometimes leads to. >> To change. >> Meaning, the words, sometimes, the idea you kindly mentioned, the issue of managing templates. >> Sometimes important, not managing the other. >> Exactly, exactly. >> Relationships are fundamentally about friction. >> Continuous. >> Gentle friction, and gentle friction, and sometimes rough friction. Therefore, mistakes are a fundamental form of any relationship between two parties. When do we apologize? When do we not apologize? >> Yes. >> When do we accept an apology? When do we not accept an apology? >> When do we forget, and when do we not forget? When do we forgive, and when do we not forgive? >> This is four. [Laughter] Books, then. >> So, the main problem is not just in our culture. On the contrary, our culture is actually a culture of apology that is different. The culture of apology is a culture of a master. The culture of "I'm sorry" is not from our culture. >> No, in our culture, apology must be followed by compensation and guarantee. We have something like that, even in Islamic jurisprudence, called the guarantor. What is the guarantor? I broke this, so I will apologize, and I will be sorry, and I will appease you, and that's it. I will bring another. >> I will bring another. So, the culture of weak, cold apology, detached, which is "I'm sorry," is not from our culture. This is an imported culture, an alien culture. In our culture, there is always the culture of guarantee, the culture of making amends, of compensation. This is the basis. Therefore, we are trying to change this idea in people. We have a very strange Egyptian concept that has spread widely. We do not accept compensation. What does it mean not to accept compensation? We were raised from a young age that compensation is a bad thing. For example, if my colleague broke my pen, and I took another pen from him that he brought me, something terrible, or a problem, or a catastrophe will happen to me. Although the Quran says something different. It teaches us that no, you accept these compensations. Therefore, an apology that is not accompanied by compensation is to be thrown away. This is the basis. If the apology is a cold apology, with words without compensation, even to our children, here is a problem. I am raising my children that if I made a mistake, how do I compensate you? And then the child will grow up seeing that it is his right to receive compensation for what he has done. Therefore, all the questions, perhaps we can summarize them in a very brief answer. Of course, the matter requires more detail. When we say, we begin to introduce a different culture, it is the culture of guarantee and compensation with any apology. So if I did something wrong, I will apologize, and I will understand and contain the feelings of the other. But at the same time, there must be a repair, even a symbolic repair. >> Meaning, sometimes, as they say, the break cannot be repaired, but it can be a symbolic form of repair. Therefore, when there is someone, let's imagine, they always say, "What if he returns apologizing?" This is a very common thing. [Laughter] For someone who is harmful, or someone who, my fate, or rather, let's not call it fate, so as not to annoy Freud, somehow, I entered a harmful relationship and was devastated by it. Then I started to wake up, and when I started to wake up, I decided to stop this harm. What if he returns apologizing? If he returns apologizing, organized, "I'm sorry, and you are the most important person in my life, or you are the most important woman in my life, and I know your value." Thank you. We do not accept that. But when would an apology have value? When he has this compensatory intention. That's number one. And the intention of repair. That's why we don't have just an apology, but a sincere apology. >> And always involves restoring rights. >> What is sincere? It means to advise him, to prevent him from doing more. So there must be compensation for what has passed, and he must have a clear program for working on what is to come. So if he has a problem, he must be seeking treatment. Not necessarily psychological treatment, but any form of treatment or therapy. But in the end, there is understanding of my feelings and what happened, which is "I'm sorry," and there is compensation for what has passed, and there is? And a genuine intention for repair in what is to come. >> And forgetting. >> So, is it necessary? Some people cannot forget. Honestly, is it necessary for forgetting to follow an apology? Not necessarily. We have many, many forms of choosing others and their preferences after the apology. >> For example, transcendence. >> Exactly. Transcendence is different from forgetting. Forgetting means the idea is no longer present. But transcendence means it is present, and perhaps its weight is present, and its pain is present, but I will choose.

I will respond to you based on my pen from you after I believed in the three things you did, so perhaps I will go to transgression, and some of us go to forgiveness for what is more >> No, because there is a thought, meaning I don't know its accuracy, but this is what is circulated and they differentiate between men and women. They tell you that a man does not forget, but he does not forgive, and vice versa is true for women. They forgive, but they do not forget >> So the man says, "I am angry with you, but I forgot why I am angry, and I remain angry." And vice versa is true for women. No, she might forgive, but she doesn't forget. She doesn't forget the situation >> I'm not sure if I heard it or read it, but I'm sure of its validity from pop psychology or from popular psychology, as they say, and perhaps it is a very widespread idea, and perhaps, by the way, it has some validity. I don't know the extent of its validity, meaning there is no real research that is said around the idea that there is a difference between the psychology of women and the psychology of men in the ability to deal, but what I know from my personal experience is that they really don't forget >> [Laughter] >> They are the ones who don't forget. Okay, we forget sometimes. Some relationships are not harmful, but they are exhausting. They drain you, meaning there is no harm, but you feel like you are panting all the time, meaning the idea of exhaustion in the relationship and not harm >> And this is a degree of what we said a little while ago. How do I differentiate between a harmful relationship and an exhausting relationship? The harmful relationship has the manipulative process that we mentioned. I am using this relationship. The exhausting relationship, in order to understand relationships in general, look, I will tell you something very strange, and perhaps something that after one got married, settled down, and calmed down, he started to succeed more in his work. What happens? Part of your energy that was going into conflicts and thinking started to be freed up. It started to come out in creative output in your work. >> Therefore, one form of healthy relationships is that your soul finds peace, so that your soul finds peace in a way that frees up your energy to launch into life. But when a crisis occurs, for example, with the husband, between the husband and his wife, or others, you find that you take part of your energy investment in work and put it into that. So they say so-and-so has been unfocused in his work for a while. Why? He has problems at home. This is a very, very common thing. And okay, when this is a temporary thing as a result of a specific crisis at home, it is understandable. But when the relationship becomes one that requires high maintenance all the time, I need to keep fixing this relationship, energy for the sake of continuous repair. Here, the relationship turns into an exhausting relationship. An exhausting relationship is not inherently a harmful relationship, but a relationship that requires constant maintenance, constant effort for the sake of continuous repair, for the sake of conflicts, reconciliation, lingering anger, and excessive sensitivity, and so on, that I constantly have to put energy into here. And sometimes, frankly, the reason for exhausting relationships is that the person cannot tolerate the process of stability. Some people, by the way, when they stabilize, they say, "No, there's a disaster." No, the matter is not comfortable. There must be drama. We used to have movies by Maryam Moneeb back then, which is that there must be a conflict in the relationship so that when we get angry with each other, we reconcile, and the old bursts of love return. So we constantly need relational drama in order to renew the relationship. People have these ideas, and this makes relationships sometimes exhausting. An exhausting relationship does not necessarily mean that we have to end it or leave it. No, an exhausting relationship draws some of its energy. What is its solution? No, its solution is here in dialogue. Here there is a crisis, and we need to sit and talk about what are the unmet needs? What are the things that are not understood? Do we have these ideal expectations in the relationship? Do we need drama to stir up the existing feelings, and then we free up this energy invested in this relationship and put it in. Of course, one of the biggest problems that occur, or one of the biggest reasons for problems, is multiple relationships outside the original relationship. This happens a lot. >> I hear you, but I want you to move in the conversation to another point, which is that we are starting to hear the idea that justifies the relationship, that this is normal. >> Yes, especially towards men, they say, "No, this is how men are." >> And >> And they present it as if there is no flaw, that this is natural, and that this is normal. >> Yes >> What do you think about the problem of multiple relationships and the analysis I mentioned? I will answer the first and second so that I don't get into trouble. [Laughter] I will approach it frankly, to avoid stirring up controversy. >> We will talk when Don Juanism, whether in men or women, or emotional pluralism, is in itself a pathological aspect, not as a result of problems in the existing relationship, or as a result of believing in a certain creed or otherwise. No, we are talking now about when it is pathological, obsessive, compulsive, excessively pluralistic. >> There are many forms of reasons that can lead to this form of Don Juanism or multiple relationships. The first of these, contrary to what people commonly believe, is a disturbance in masculinity and femininity itself. Meaning, it is always said, or people always assume that the Don Juan, when we are talking about the pathological or excessively pluralistic form, is a person who has high desire or great sexual energy, or something like that. The truth is that this matter is completely different. The truth is that this is originally in a deep area of the self. This pluralistic woman or this pluralistic man does not feel safe, stable, or fully reconciled with her masculinity or femininity. He feels from within, in a deep area of himself, that he is not man enough, and she feels in a deep area of herself that she is not fully feminine. Therefore, she constantly needs multiple charging to heal this feeling of disturbance, this feeling of insecurity, this intrusive feeling that constantly tells him, "You are not man enough." So, through multiple relationships, he managed to get so-and-so, and so-and-so, and so-and-so, and so-and-so. This gives me a feeling >> of compensating for old deficiencies >> So this is a type of overcompensation. And what is its problem? That it is never satisfied because the voice inside does not quiet down. The voice will come again and again. So he constantly mobilizes or mobilizes indications to deny or confront this internal feeling. >> How is the imbalance treated? >> This internal work must be done. Here, as I say, we must bring the past, something like that. We must open it. We must open it because the problem >> He must go to a doctor and help him >> If the matter reaches the degree where there are multiple relationships and obsession with relationships to the point where it has started, of course, here we will need a form of >> I will also be completely honest. I am not one of those who believe that psychiatry and psychotherapy, because this culture has started to spread and wrong ideas, is the only way to heal the soul. No, of course not. No, of course not. And before psychiatry, people sometimes really treated themselves through reading, learning, healthy relationships, and confession. So there are many ways. Honestly, through self-purification. Meaning, he can work on himself as a form of self-purification, sometimes through religious forms. And he might improve. So if this fails for him, then perhaps he needs it if the matter reaches the point where it is a real disorder leading to a functional problem, internal distress, or harm to those around him. Then we will intervene with it. But I will not tell you that the only solution to all the world's problems is psychiatry. Definitely. [Laughter] >> Okay, let's see then, another piece of material. If you are trapped in pathological relationships and you see no way out of them, if you if someone who is sinking has their hands around your neck and is pulling you down, you're not obligated to drown with them. There's a rule to if you're a lifeguard, you know, some of you have had lifeguard training. How do you approach someone who's drowning and panicking in the water? Feed out, right? Like this. >> So >> Meaning, from this clip, I move to the idea, let's go to the idea of recovery. The idea of recovery always comes from the fact that there is a problem, this problem sometimes reaches a stage that is not a fleeting pain. It is a form of fragmentation in front of you, and sometimes it reaches a depth that you do not know there is another depth, or you have reached the depth. Describe to me the moments of depth, the moments of fragmentation. >> Describe it so I can understand. >> Yes >> So that I can deal with it later. >> Yes >> Okay, so, so, it's very beautiful that we started recovery with the dark stage, the bottom. We go down to the bottom, and the word "bottom" we will put an equal sign and say if we describe it, we will describe it with the accumulation of losses. >> Accumulation of losses. >> Losses, meaning simply the meaning of the bottom is that this life can no longer be lived in the same way. This process of positive fragmentation, as a great psychologist named Dabrowski called it, he used to say that a person cannot, does not start to change until he reaches this process of positive fragmentation. This process of hitting many losses starts to move the current state, the status quo that we are talking about. If he sees everything in the world and can get it, as we were talking about Don Juanism a little while ago, and life is going well, and at the same time he has money, he is comfortable, and his children are well, what will make him think about change? >> But he will start to reveal deep losses in front of his daughter, one by one. Here, money, very big losses have started. Spiritual losses, psychological losses, a feeling of powerlessness. At this moment, the current pain gives me one message: I cannot live in the same way. So at this moment, the pain at this moment becomes a catalyst for making changes. It will be one of two options: either make palliative changes, let's reconcile with the daughter we angered and look at our money, palliative changes to keep the situation as it is and better in the >> or I decide to make a general change in the entire life, a real change. >> And then recovery begins. And they always say about recovery: we did not go to recovery except on a full stomach, and it was circumstances that led us to recovery, not virtue. Let's not say virtue. Let's say we were shattered, and we thought the circumstances were our tragedies, our losses, our crises, our pains. And the beautiful thing is that recovery welcomes this. On the contrary, someone who comes to me and says, "I recovered in a moment of epiphany." This is very rare. It happens, but it is very rare. Usually, we go after things get dark. >> So this fragmentation, I consider it, I know, and we have tasted the lesser torment before the greater torment, so that they may return. The lesser torment is the state of pain that makes a person start to think. >> Here we need to make a change. And if not for this, indeed, many people would have perished. And let's talk, we don't want to say that this is a form of divine awakening or anything else. No, sometimes it is from the necessities of the action itself. Because sometimes people think and say, "Why didn't I get it?" You cannot continue on a pathological path that involves harmful relationships, pluralism, excessive rescue, pleasing others, a false self, as we were talking about. Pain that is not resolved, and life continues to go well. >> You are heading for the bottom. >> At a certain stage, you will pay for it. You will pay the price for the drinks. >> You will pay it. You will bear it. >> When you hit the bottom and shatter and want to recover, a big problem occurs, which is the release of stuck emotions. >> Correct. >> And what is called the idea of catharsis. >> Absolutely correct. And this is beautiful because we are building on the idea that many, many, not all pains or all problems, return to old pains. But many, because I want to be frank, I belong to a school called the dynamic therapy school. So we see great effects of this past. Therefore, since we have reached this bottom, reached this pain, much of what we saw were symptoms, not problems in themselves, but they came to cover up the original problems. So we must start re-reading the past, and when we read the past, we will find that there are stuck emotions. So how will we deal with them? So there must be a process of release. This process of release will take different forms. I will tell you three forms in brief. >> The first release is release through a relationship. >> Yes. >> Meaning, through a relationship? Meaning, I will enter into participation with another person. I will go and talk to someone. I will tell him the pain. One of the professors, a great one in psychiatry, used to say a nice word: "Whoever has gone through something needs a witness and a historian." Is there someone else to witness for him? Because sometimes the pain is the only witness that something happened. >> Yes >> No one else saw it, but when I give a second copy to someone else, I stop clinging to my pain because there is another copy that has been heard, another witness besides the witness of pain. >> So the first way is that the pain happened in a relationship, and many abuses happened in a relationship, and many crises happened in a relationship. So one of the greatest ways of all is the healing relationship. That another relationship is what >> I enter into a new relationship that heals me. >> Does the new relationship here mean it must be a love relationship, or not? It could be a friend, a supervisor, a mentor, a therapist, etc. It needs a relationship, but a relationship that has the ability to repair through confession of what happened. This is the first system. The second system is release through >> through treating these stuck emotions by doing a creative product. Meaning, >> writing, journaling. Exactly. Some people now are recording. Some people have started talking to ChatGPT and seeing this matter. It has started to spread. [Laughter] This is positive release, but the problem with ChatGPT is that it needs to be trained so that it doesn't just keep flattering. It needs to show you other areas. This is what a human does. May God have mercy on him. He guides me to my flaws. So this is the second system. The second system, and it is one of the greatest ways of release and recovery, is journaling. And I am one of those who are very enthusiastic about it. I see that expressive writing, and for a person to pick up a pen, even if they have nothing in their mind to say, just to write what they are feeling now, what they are thinking now, and what happened to them one day, and just write it without even going back to read it, has an incredibly soothing and incredibly relieving effect, and sometimes healing in itself. >> So this is the second system. The third system, well, this is my opinion. >> And I lean towards it very, very much. I love literature. That is, what we call release by proxy. >> Which is what? Which is that I watch or witness another who has released. The biggest releases are creative processes. Let me give you an example. They used to teach us something in psychiatry that is very nice. They say the wheel of emotions is a drawing that contains all the emotions that are supposed to exist in the universe. Sometimes I look for a specific emotion within the wheel and I don't find it. I feel something specific, but I don't find it here, but I find it in a poem, in a verse of poetry, in a piece by Dostoevsky, for example. I find it. Yes, that's what I want to say. That's what's inside me. So emotions are not only through telling them and writing them. Sometimes, when we see someone else who has gone through something, their story or their entry into a creative state. >> This happens, والله, almost daily. You find someone saying, "My brother, the guest so-and-so expressed what is in my soul. He described my wound, described my problem, described what I don't know what. He described this." You see this proxy expression a lot. والله, it works. I see it with people. >> And this creates the idea of an alternative narrative. That is, simply, when I heard it, I understood what happened to me. >> So I started to put a different narrative than the victim narrative, the freezing narrative, the initial narrative. >> Yes. So it started to help me understand the past. Among people who read poetry, read literature, and arts in various forms. >> Discover yourselves in the selves of others. Now I will present to you a set of things quickly. I want a brief comment on each one. >> Brief, meaning, you're talking a lot, right? You tell me, talk a lot, but [laughter] don't waste my time. >> D I'm sorry all those years never checked up on you that's we just >> Bro, it ain't you none of it. >> It wasn't on you either. Yes >> I will tell you that, that, I will say a very daring word, given that the clip is related to friendship, that I see that friendship is the relationship in which a woman's true freedom is revealed, and it is one of the most important relationships in the formation of any human being and one of the most relationships that does not get its due in writing, work, and conversation. Why is it important? >> No, why? Why did you give it a high level? >> Because it is the only relationship that is completely free from institutional obligation. It is not a work relationship, nor is it a marriage relationship, nor are there children between me and him, nor is there a sexual aspect, nor is it a relationship that has only desire, choice, preference, and companionship. So you have no other obligation except, well, brotherhood and manhood, nothing more than to choose. >> Yes, that's where I choose someone who, in a way, I can be myself with. This is an important point. I can be myself with him, and at the same time, not like ChatGPT, who is always flattering me. He is able to grant me my flaws with mercy, and my life improves with him, and I find a mixture between the mirroring, that he resembles a very large part of my value system, and at the same time, the supportive aspect at times when I am realistic, he can support me or others. At the same time, authenticity in the idea that he grants me the truth in the mess I sometimes make. >> So why do I have a large group of friends who don't resemble me? >> Exactly. It's not necessarily that he resembles you completely, but he has at least acceptance of your value system. Acceptance, so that you don't even feel like you are in a space of alienation. The basic question is, and some people, by the way, can be completely different from me, but they have an extraordinary ability to accept others. I am capable. The basic question I always ask about friends is: Can I be myself with him without being embarrassed or hiding? >> You are as you are. >> Exactly. Let's see a clip. I'm afraid you'll comment on it. >> Could you speak louder? Captain did not drink the drank the sea. I drank the bottles. >> Please be seated, sir. This is not a court, anyway. >> On the 11th and 14th was drank all those days in the morning of the 11th. >> I read to you, I read a little about addiction. I read your thesis and another thesis, and I have two questions. Regarding your thesis, you said a phrase that caught my attention, and I would like to understand it from you. When you said, "Addiction does not depend on willpower, or addiction treatment, or recovery does not depend on willpower." >> I completely agree with this. Completely. And I fight for it, and this is one of the things that can indeed be tricky for our societies. We were raised with the idea that an addict is a person with weak willpower, morally corrupt, and ill-mannered. And this story started a long time ago, from ancient doctors like Joseph Bleuler and others, who saw addiction as a form of, and forgive me for the word I will say, and this dominated medicine for a long time, addiction as a form of moral insanity. Imagine, what do they call it? Moral insanity or weakness of willpower, and that an addict is simply a person with weak willpower, so he needs to strengthen it a little to quit. And medicine tried for a long time to strengthen people's willpower so that they could recover, but no one recovered. So they discovered that the addict's problem is not willpower, his problem is that his willpower is fluctuating. >> Ah, so his problem is not weak willpower? >> Exactly. >> His problem is that his willpower today for recovery will not be there tomorrow. It fluctuates. So he needs reinforcement of this willpower with continuous reminders by surrendering this willpower to another force. So he needs recovery groups. He needs, frankly, >> Exactly. To the extent of the name you just mentioned, this is the name of a book on addiction by someone named Jordan Washington, titled "Addiction and the Power of Will Alone Is Not Enough." So when you go to an addict and tell him, "No, strengthen your willpower," and you imagine that he will get better, you are doing nothing but increasing this pressure on him. >> There is another idea that a person, in his depth and in his origin, is an addictive being. We all have a predisposition to be addicted to something in this life. >> I don't agree. >> [Laughter] >> Strongly, frankly, I don't agree. But I will say that the current society greatly supports addictive spaces and has instilled in us an addictive nature. This scrolling we do all the time feeds this point. Obsession with dopamine, obsession with novelty, continuous renewal. All of these lead to establishing addictive processes in the brain because >> But you differ that a person is not a being >> Original predisposition, of course not. Of course not. No, no, of course not. Some people have more predisposition, but people >> No, no, of course not. No, of course not. We have a very important center in the brain called the reward center. If you play with it, and give me a burst of dopamine, give me excessive bursts of dopamine, I will always need something like that. I will need something that was like that. But if you don't play with it and leave it as God Almighty created it, then >> And I didn't have this predisposition, then why? >> This question interested me. Abdullah Jaber drew a cartoon today. >> May God protect us. This is the difficult part. >> Why? Why are you afraid that even you [laughter] before the air, you ask me, "What is the cartoon?" >> I love him very much. I love his cartoons very much, but at the same time, he reveals the self all at once. >> Okay, let's see if he managed to reveal something about you or not. Let's see. Justice of God. [Laughter] >> No, it's >> Ah, did he reveal you or not? >> Ah, it's very strong. Thank God, it's not difficult, but I should have sent it to me. It's very nice. >> We will send it to you because you have a book that I loved, "My Father, Whom I Hate," and by the way, it was the first thing that connected me to you. The book "My Father, Whom I Hate." What is this? The names of the books you have. The names >> Ah >> Your comment. >> But the content is different. By the way, if you read "My Father, Whom I Hate," it is, in my opinion, one of the most books written in the past periods, and this is not, that truly reconciled many people with their parents. I reconciled them, meaning >> To the extent that before the air, many tweets and questions said, "Does he have a problem with his father?" >> No, والله. [Laughter] >> He has a problem. He has old pains. He, everything he complains about now is a result of old pain in his first relationships. >> By the way, this is one of the things that when I came to write the book, I went to my father and mother and told them, "By the way, they will think this is the case, so forgive me." >> Okay, why did you go before? >> I'll tell you why I went. Because, first, I did not insult my parents, of course. Rather, I wanted, many young people have a problem that they have uncomfortable feelings towards their parents, but they hide them like drugs, literally hide them like drugs, and it causes them many crises in their lives. And I want to do this reconciliation process, a process of starting to reconcile with the past. So first, I must respect the pain and reveal it, and the secret part that he is hiding. "My Father, Whom I Hate," not "My Father, Whom I Hate," by the way. There is always no single father. By the way, we always used to say that there is a real father, a symbolic father, and an imaginary father. There are more than one father inside each of us. There is a part of my father that I hate. There is a part of my mother that I hate. There is a part of me that I hate. There is a part of my son. It is natural. So what do I hate? So, come on, I will do this move and reveal these stuck emotions with all their contradictions. "My Father" with the possessive pronoun and the word "hate." And this is not an insult. It is emotions. So, come on, let's take these emotions and contain them, expose them, and strip them bare, like opening a very intimate part of the soul. So all I needed, because I had written that no one knew me in the end, was for the book to be taken from the shelf. >> Ah, so it was a marketing trick. >> Not necessarily a trick. [Laughter] A trick. >> It succeeded. I even told Abdullah, "I told him, the first book I knew was this." He said, "I had the same idea. I saw the title and took it and read it, and the content was different." So we all have this feeling that it's a marketing trick. >> So, yes, it's a marketing method. >> Okay, fine. Do you have your first book, "My Father, Whom I Hate," or was it a novel? >> Ah, the very first thing was a novel. >> I won't ask you about the first novel. I'll ask you about the new novel that hasn't come out yet. >> Ah, and this is a secret. [Laughter] Correct me if the information I have is that you are writing a novel about Imam Al-Ghazali. >> Correct. Correct. And this, I have great curiosity to know. I have been working on the novel for more than six years. Imam Al-Ghazali, for me, is an extremely rich human experience. >> And I wished that he would be addressed from a psychological perspective. Imam Al-Ghazali has been addressed from an intellectual perspective, a philosophical perspective. I wonder, was he >> Imam Al-Ghazali >> Ah, especially since this man was able to document his crises. His experience is extremely rich. From someone who, at the age of 34, became the head or dean, as we call it, of the largest university in the world, the Nizamiyya School in Baghdad. Truly in the world. We are not just talking about the Islamic aspect or the Islamic empire, but the world. So someone reached this level, then he went through an extremely harsh and difficult psychological experience. >> They called it in Islamic heritage "Al-Kanad," which is what we now call depression, or melancholic depression, or sometimes severe clinical depression. But >> The man's tongue was restrained from teaching. He would stand in the middle of 300 sheikhs, including great ones like Abdul Qadir al-Jilani, including Ibn Arabi, including important figures like Ibn Aqil, who sometimes attended him. Then he found that words failed him. The words escaped him to the point that he suffered what could be called, of course, we did not see him to diagnose him, hysterical mutism as a result of severe pain. According to the doctors who examined him, no one could get him out. So this man, who was pursued by the Batinis and had an extraordinary legacy, reached almost everything a person could aspire to at this stage. And they said that he had arrogance, bad manners, was violent and harsh with >> and had a certain self-conceit. Then he decided, in order to solve his problem, to leave Baghdad and claim that he would go to Hijaz. And indeed, he went to Hijaz but did not return. Some accounts say 11 years. >> Yes. >> And perhaps, one researcher like Frank Griffel said, "No, he stayed for two years and went through a profoundly transformative spiritual experience." Look at the preceding period of Batinite scandals and the refutation of philosophers, and constant debate with others, because in the spiritual experience he went through, which healed his depression and through which he underwent a violent spiritual transformation, this is the experience of fragmentation. For the first time, someone from the heritage wrote to me about the experience of fragmentation, the bottom, the pain, and how in his book "The Rescuer from Error," he took the subject and made it stages, how he went through them. >> So the psychological approach, I really wished, why don't we read the subject from such a perspective? A socio-psychological perspective, where we look at the social crisis and the psychological crisis, and how this man transformed to return and say, "By God, he came back different from how he entered." He returned with a different face. To the extent that we thought he was claiming or pretending to escape >> certain difficulties he was going through before he left. But indeed, the man wrote afterwards one of the most brilliant Islamic experiences, "The Revival of the Religious Sciences," which contains psychological treasures. So, frankly, I felt that perhaps the experience of recovery and the quartet that I did, let's pause on it a bit. I think it has been sufficiently completed, and now is the time to go for a different reading and to elicit an important heritage from "Nouruznameh" and the diaries of severe pain experienced by an important personality who influenced the whole world, and try to address it not from a literary, intellectual, or doctrinal perspective, but from a psychological perspective. >> A psychological reading. والله, I am excited to see it because, because I remember the clip you talked about, the book "The Rescuer from Error." Some call it Al-Ghazali's Confessions. When he describes that he couldn't eat, he couldn't drink, he described a painful description. And when he came out, of course, he went to Sham for a while, then sat in a mosque, then the same book, then he said, "I went to Hijaz." >> And the return. And he returned as another person. And the book "The Revival of the Religious Sciences." When you see it, you see the refutation of philosophers, and you see that there is a change. And here is my question: How does a person reconcile with the transformations he goes through? >> I will say it in a very simple sentence: by integrating them into the construction of the self. Meaning, what? Meaning, a person who does not transform, does not change, and does not change his mind, is the one who has the crisis. It is natural to go through situations that challenge what you believe in and what you hold of ideas, challenge your perception of others, your perception of money, your perception of the world. So we constantly go through >> processes of challenge and questioning of what we believe in. >> Some of the things we believe in endure, and some of them we need to have the courage to re-question. And what we have gone through of transformations, pains, and situations that challenged what we hold dear, we allow them to enter. Let's avoid the idea of "No, I am like this." Some people are indeed afraid of change. They say, "Let me show you an old video. I was afraid of the screen. Let me show you an old video. What are you saying now?" No, it's perfectly fine. I have no problem with what I believed in at that time. I cannot judge my yesterday's consciousness by what I am today. So the best way is to integrate them by accepting that this is the stage. >> So some people may have regret about the present, and some people may have regret about the past, and some people may have anxiety about the future. In this transformation, what should they do? >> Acceptance only. Acceptance, meaning what? Meaning, it's not possible >> Ah, it's not possible. We reject. We reject, or you know, you're going to a child, who you were, and you say to him, "How could you not think with the mindset of a 40-year-old man?" This is not logical. Do not judge yesterday's consciousness with today's consciousness. Your experiences were different. To the extent that there is a nice principle promoted in some types of therapy, which is dialectical behavior therapy, it says that the self did its best at this time period. >> Every self does its best in that situation and at this stage. This is the narrative now. >> It is a narrative, correct. The director has a clip he's excited about. He says, "I want to show it." >> Yes. >> And I want the doctor. >> Okay. >> To comment on it. Let's see the last clip. >> Under the skin of the self. >> Under the skin of the self. [Laughter] >> And this is my newest book, by the way. I have a book, yes, the newest one, which is only two months old. >> It's called "The Executioner Under My Skin." And the book talks about perfectionism and self-flagellation. If I were to say a word about self-flagellation, it is one of the greatest forms of suffering, and even in personal experience, it was one of the most hindering things. I don't want to go into too much detail, but self-flagellation is always related to the existence of an internal standard that cannot be met, an ideal standard, a standard beyond our human capacity and our limitations to fulfill it. So, is the existence of the standard enough? No. Any flaw or deficiency compared to this standard causes unbearable pain and fear, and causes an extraordinary sense of guilt, to the point of punishing this self. And this makes a person always search for a form of perfection. >> And this will make him not just easily self-flagellate if he just suffers and that's it. No, you will find two things that always appear with this model: excessive procrastination. Why? Because he always has an ideal model in his mind. I will write this book, this novel I'm talking about, in my mind. It's beautiful, perfect, and wonderful. When I actually start writing, I find difficulties, and every time I write something, I find that the ideal image starts to fade. No, I want to keep holding onto the ideal image, so I postpone starting, to preserve this image, or wait for the ideal moment to start. I will start at the beginning of the month. I will start when I have gathered all the sufficient data. >> To deal with this matter. >> Yes. >> We simply need to pull the trigger, to kill this ideal model. The second form is the form of distraction that we mentioned, which is that he keeps moving from one project to another, to another, in order to try to reach the ideal model in one of these projects, and thus wastes his energy as well. >> Okay, we have a view from Jules. Let's see it. >> The problem is not that a doctor or therapist gathers hundreds of thousands around him. Audiences naturally tend to those who explain their pain, give their pain a name, and put it in an elegant theoretical framework. Dr. Emad Rashad, as it appears in his discourse, has succeeded in this excellently. He has taught people how to classify pain, how to analyze its roots, how to put precise mental maps for it, and how to confront it without evasion. But the more important question is, has he taught them how to get out of it? There is a vast difference between awareness of pain and liberation from it. Between understanding your wound and working on its healing. Between narrating your suffering with mastery and overcoming it. Many have become fluent in analytical language about childhood traumas, attachment patterns, and unmet needs, but conversely, they are more attached to their mothers than ever before. We are facing a phenomenon that resembles turning pain into an identity. Pain becomes a form of identification, and analysis becomes a sustainable justification for remaining in the same cycle. A generation that masters the description of damage but lacks the courage to break free from it. The message here is not to deny pain or to diminish the value of dissecting it. Diagnosis is necessary, but turning diagnosis into a permanent residence is a predicament. And the opinion says the most dangerous thing that therapeutic discourse can do is to linger on pain without opening a door to escape from it. It creates a generation addicted to interpreting their pains, not to overcoming them. Wonderful. He is recording my greatest fears. I will not tell you, this is indeed my greatest fear, that through therapeutic culture and new concepts, people will start finding explanations and stop at this stage. But on the contrary, he is saying.

This way, he enters, looking at the comments. You, all the time, sometimes are harsh on us and don't read our minds, just all the time saying, "We don't live in victimhood and we bear responsibility." >> No, he means talking about the topic of stopping at interpreting pain, but not moving on. This is my main objection. The thing I most fear, and by the way, I am afraid when I do this, is that many people have started to internalize pain. For example, I made a series of 88 videos for addiction treatment. In 88 videos, I see that I have only diagnosed addiction. This is something. So what he says is important, and one of my biggest fears, frankly, is that in some way it will be exploited, or rather not exploited, but the illness will be exploited. My discourse, in order to remain for himself, for a person, is to confine him to the pains of the past, or to the parental relationship, or to something else. That's why all the time we are trying to get out of the victim role with a new discourse called the discourse of responsibility. So whoever cuts off the first part, it's natural that he cannot see the first part. This will be targeted without seeing the second part. Almost no book I wrote, perhaps the last book, half of it is practical papers on how to get out of perfectionism. The book before it, half of it, literally half of it, more than 200 pages or 150 pages or a number. >> And perhaps the opinion is not just that it is a form of accusation, but it is a form of fears that completely agree. And by the way, this is also what made me start to refine some of my discourse after he started presenting it. >> Because his focus will be more and more and more on the practical aspects. But honestly, >> personally, okay, you got a psychology degree. It's natural that you continue in the depth of this specialization. You went and got a second bachelor's degree in Arabic language, which is strange. Then the information I have is that you are studying a third thing, I don't know what it is, but you are studying a third thing. This also, when we put it in a dichotomy, I find it strange, but psychology is related to psychology anyway. But Arabic language, for me, the relationship of language to the healing process is a very deep relationship, just as I was talking about narrative. All these things I am telling you, by the way, many of them, or the people who founded psychotherapy, were associated with the idea of language, the idea of speech, the idea of the influential ability to shape what is happening inside a person. And as I said a little while ago, around identity, I found that there are more than one path, and my primary ability was that at first I would focus on the medical path, and I would remove the other paths when things started to improve a little and time became much better. >> Did you create the opportunity, or did you have some form of indecision about choices, or was your identity undecided, and here we are talking about a practical identity and a passion identity. Here it is different. The aspect of writing, the aspect of literature, the artistic aspect, this is part of my passion. This is part of the things that give my life meaning, and the practical work, of course, is a very important part regarding psychotherapy. So I found that this is the formula, the formula of the writer and the doctor, the literary part and the medical part. And we canceled the rest of the options. And thank God we reached these two. [Laughter] >> Good luck, Doctor. I am happy to be with you. >> I am very, very happy with this meeting. والله, thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. The thanks are also extended to you. Dr. Emad Rashad Al-Nawy says, "The pain that is not transformed into a narrative is transformed into an identity."