Transcription
We live in a time where masculinity is shamed, and men don't know what it means to be a man. As a pastor and counselor, I've spent the better part of my life equipping and training others. My goal with this show is to translate my hard-earned experience into tools and tactics to help you become stronger as a man. This is the Brave Co Podcast. I'm your host, Jason Valen. Welcome back to the Brave Co Podcast, men.
Um, I am super excited this week. I say that every week, but I am, uh, this week, I have a really incredible man and a guy that I, I, um, started to get to know last year at a conference, a Men's Conference called The Merge, which is, is just incredible. But I heard Tracy Armstrong preaching for the first time at the conference, and honestly, my heart was gripped right away, which it takes a lot. It, it really does. I try not to lie. I try not to be jaded or whatever, um, but I've been in the ministry so long, you know. But, but Tracy has such a powerful, uh, voice in, in, in the men's movement, but also just in life. And also his prophetic gift and ministry was really, really, really, um, incredible. And then I got to spend some time with him afterwards, um, just talking to him about life and, and asking questions. And man, it's just a, such a cool guy.
Tracy is a pastor, um, uh, of Citadel Church. They also plant churches. And, um, he, he, him and his wife just do all kinds of discipleship, pouring into couples, pouring into, to individuals, building up, uh, the body of Christ like we do. But this guy's a warrior. This is one of those guys, men, that like, if you're looking for someone to, to follow, because I always say this, like, a man needs somebody to look up to, right? Like, we all have to have our heroes that we, that help us aim and go, like, when I grow up, I want to be like that. Listen, when I grow up, I want to be like Tracy. And we might even be close to the same age, but he, he's just such a bad man. And, uh, and so, bro, it's an honor to have you on here. Thank you so much.
Hey, Jason, man, it's, it's good to be with you, and I've been looking forward to this. You know, when I got the invitation to spend time with you, I was like, yes, let's do it. And we had such a good time talking. I mean, just your, the way you frame things in your mind and the, the, I remember you said something that wouldn't, wouldn't be, it was challenging in the sense that you were, you were putting it out there, and you were saying, listen, I walk through this in my marriage, and I did this. And, but the victory that you carried, and the victory that you held, and the possibility and posture that you kept was, was dynamic. And I'm, I'm glad to know you. Thanks, bro.
Well, hopefully, we can, uh, inspire some men today. We're right in the middle of our Makings of a Man podcast, and, um, today, the, the attribute that we're talking about is self-reliance. And so I'm going to dive in here and, and read a, a really cool story that maybe some guys have heard, but probably a lot of guys have not heard. It's just Ernest Shackleton. And so, um, and then we, we'll dive into it.
So Ernest Shackleton was a renowned polar explorer who led several expeditions to Antarctica during the early 20th century. One of his most famous expeditions was the Imperial Trans-Antarctic Expedition of 1914 to 1917, often referred to as the Endurance Expedition. In 1914, Shackleton set out with his crew of 27 aboard the ship, the Endurance, with the goal of crossing the Atlantic. However, the Endurance became trapped in a pack of ice in the Weddell Sea, far from their intended route. Despite efforts to free the ship, it eventually became clear that they would have to abandon it. For months, Shackleton and his crew camped on the ice, enduring extreme cold, sea, and harsh conditions. Eventually, as the ice began to break up, they launched their lifeboats and made their way to Elephant Island, a barren and uninhabited, uh, outcrop in the Southern Ocean. Realizing that they had little hope of rescue from Elephant Island, Shackleton and a small crew set out in one of the lifeboats that James, uh, carried on a perilous journey across 800 miles of treacherous sea to reach South Georgia Island, where there was a whaling station. After a harrowing voyage during which they faced, uh, monstrous waves and near starvation, Shackleton and his men finally reached South Georgia Island. However, they landed on the uninhabited southern side of the island. So Shackleton and two others had to embark on a dangerous trek across unmapped mountains and glaciers to reach the whaling station on the north coast. After successfully reaching the whaling station and organizing a rescue mission, Shackleton returned to Elephant Island to save the rest of his crew. Miraculously, after over a year stranded in the Antarctic, not a single member of Shackleton's expedition had been lost. Shackleton's leadership and his ability to keep his crew focused and hopeful in the face of unimaginable adversity, adversary, sorry, have made the Endurance Expedition one of the most famous stories of survivin, in the his, oh, sorry, of survival in the history of exploration. Despite failing to to achieve their original goal, Shackleton's leadership and his crew's endurance and camaraderie have made the Expedition a testament of the human spirit and resilience in the face of adversity.
Now, it's such a crazy story. It, I didn't do it justice. And sorry about the reading, guys. I have like, a sixth-grade reading level, and so you get what you get. But this is such an incredible story of a group of men in 1914 to 1917. So when you think back to those times, it's not like they had their, their North Face big puffy jackets and all this survival gear like we have today. Like, you're talking about real primitive survival. And these guys get stuck, encapsulated in the ice. They make a back after months of being stuck to an island that they can't live on. And then he makes an 800-mile journey with him and a couple of dudes, and then gets to, to the wrong side of the island, has to climb over a bunch of mountains and glaciers just to get help. Like, you're looking at the power. This really is the power of resilience. But you also see the power of him being able to make decisions and rely on himself to, to take action, to, to make something happen, and to not lose one guy. It's like, it's mind-blowing. It is, it's mind-blowing.
And when I think about, when I think about self-reliance, there's two types of self-reliance that I think that we should start with. And there's self-reliance where a guy doesn't want to rely on anybody else, and so he's this self-made man. And we all feel sorry for that guy, right? Because he's got to buy a bigger truck than everyone, he's got to try to have a bigger bank account than everyone, and it never pays off, right? It's the overcompensator. And, and really, what's happening is, is he doesn't feel confident in himself. And, and I shouldn't make fun of a guy like that, because that's me sometimes. But the other type of self-reliance is where you know that you can rely on yourself. That's different. When you are capable and confident to execute what God has put you on this Earth to do, that's the kind of men that we're trying to be. And, um, Tracy, that's the kind of man that you are. When you look at your life, like, how, where did you learn self-reliance, and how has it played out in your life?
Well, you know, it's really interesting, Jason. One of the things that you find about, um, self-reliance is that you don't know that you have self-reliance until you're forced to be self-reliant. That's true. So I grew up without things, right? I grew up without money. I grew up without a father. I don't know my father. I don't know his name. I don't know who he is. So I don't know what his background is. I don't know what he looks like. I know nothing about him. So that, that, that forces a certain level of self-reliance. I had men in my life who were, you know, very reliant on themselves. They, two-time Olympic boxer was my uncle. Lived with him. Lived with other, you know, athletes. They were completely self-reliant. But I didn't have that kind of athletic. I had the, the ability, but not the intensity, not the intentionality. So I was a dancer. I was, I'm a creative. I like creative stuff. I like media. I like that kind of stuff. So I had to learn it because of my deficiency. Wow. And I think what, what we end up having is the people that lead us are the people who truly have learned that they know how to push past deficiency. They know how to push past, uh, temporary. They, they just call things temporary. The, the year that you had, the, the circumstances that you had, that we, when you shared when we met, you know, your divorce. I'm telling you, there are some things that you've had to push past, which makes you a great leader. Great leaders are great leaders are the people who are self-reliant, not because we want to be, but because we have to be. Yeah. And when you are in a position where you have to be self-reliant, someone had to get them out of that, out of that situation. The, you know, they were not going to be able to stay in the ship. They knew that someone had to make that decision. They were not going to be able to stay on that, that one place of the island. Someone had to do that. When you are in a position where someone has to do it and no one is willing, step up. You're willing to put yourself on the line and make something happen. That is the kind of self-reliance we need now. In this, in this season and in this generation, there's a lot of people who are wanting to be self-reliant, you know, like overcompensating, like you said. But the realization of one that really leads, not just doing it for my sake, not for the way I feel, but because I have to become a leader. I, I think you read probably three or four times that in that, in that scenario, he was a leader, a lead leader. Whoever wrote the article, leader, leader, leader, they identified the leadership. And you identified something that was brilliant in it, was the self-reliance of a leader. The self-reliance that is actually, is, is formulated in the hard times, in the tough season, in the challenging times. So when we come to this realization that I can figure out anything, that we have a problem solver inside of us, then we are really that self-reliant individual.
Bro, it's so, I love what you're saying. And man, it's crazy that, uh, yeah, you grew up with without a dad. And just your story is really incredible. Um, because I typically, when I think about, um, raising kids and, and like my role as a dad, one of the roles of a dad, I believe, is to give your sons and daughters challenges, right? That that help them to learn confidence and competency, so that when they get to, to age, right? Now I've had all these experiences in my life. I've watched my dad do cool things. I watched my mom do cool things. We have all these stories about when stuff was about to go bad. Like, when I look at my life, I can look at my dad back when I was a young guy, my dad made so many crazy, uh, decisions that, and it could just be like, when we're out camping, and, um, we have all these stories about like, um, my, my, our car wouldn't start, and we didn't have jumper cables. And so my dad had to figure out how to use chain, tire chains from, uh, one car to another car in order to jump the battery. Like, there's all kinds of these crazy stories, right? Of watching my dad problem-solve, and then pulling me into that, and then stepping aside and watching me do it. And I really feel like that's, that's like God's model that we were supposed to grow up with. But so many guys and, and girls didn't grow up with a father like that. And so, you know, get to, we get to 20, 30, 40 years old, and we don't have a lot of confidence that we can do it. We don't have a lot of confidence that we have what it takes. What would you say, like, for, for these guys that are, are hitting, you know, the, the 20, 30, 40 years old, and you go, like, man, I just don't feel like I can rely on myself? What's, like, the first couple steps that, that you would encourage a man to take?
Well, you know, I think what, what you were, what a father is, is a natural placement of a child in the life, in the family. And so if you don't, if you weren't naturally placed in that scenario, like you were, like a dad who has you going to do whatever it takes. We're not going to stay out here. We're going to get our, we're going to get our car to the next level. I, I mean, that's an, that's a brilliant mind to think, we're going to take these, these chains and we're going to, like, jump this car. That's amazing. Now, when you have that, that kind of person in front of you, living that in front of you, it emboldens you. Because part, part of the, part of the, this, the sensitivity, right? That we have is that we see, we, we develop what we see. We, we become what we see. Years ago, I studied poverty. When you study poverty, it's not what they experience themselves, but it's how they see themselves. That see themselves live through their parents, right? Their parents say, we can't afford this. So poverty comes into a person. We can't do that because then poverty. So a child learns poverty through what they see their, their parent do, how they see their parent respond. You see a parent respond, and they, they say, well, whatever it takes, we're getting you home, son. Well, that's amazing. That is powerful. Now, when you're not in, you're not placed in that scenario, you have to purposely and intentionally place yourself in that scenario. You have to get around, Jason. You have to get around people. You have to get around people who have solid family. And whether it's, you know, we, we use four terms in our, in our world, in my, in my environment, coaching, training, teaching, and mentoring. So when you, when you aren't in that natural society, in that natural environment, you need to put yourself around a coach. You need to get yourself in training. You have to find out what teaching you need. And you have to be in a place where you can see someone model it. Someone's really doing it. If I come and hang out around you, and I, I notice some people call you Jay. When I come and hang around you, then I'm going to see you model parenting. I'm going to see you model the way you handle your kids. Um, I've watched a little bit of your, your social media life, and I'm thinking, man, the way you model just being a human being with potential and powerful and overcoming stuff. That to me is the mentoring aspect. I get to see it. If you've not been mentored by your father, because you've not been around them, like myself, yeah, for years, for years, Jay, I ran everywhere trying to find, will you be my daddy? Will you be my daddy? I tried to make everybody my daddy. And I realized that there was a generation that didn't want to be a daddy. They just did not want to. They were busy relying on themselves to do what they want. And I think, um, the, the key component is, make sure you get around someone that you can, you can add to, and someone that can add to you. And when you build that kind of relationship, it becomes coaching, training, teaching, and mentoring. And when you have that, when you do that intentionally, when you do that purposefully, you will overcome some of those deficiencies that you weren't naturally placed in. Those things that you miss.
I love that so much. Like, those four are so key to, to, to actually building a life where you don't run out of capacity, because you're, you're always learning, and you're always growing, and you're always measuring, and then going back and, and taking a look at where you're, where you're, you're failing, and where you're succeeding. Um, I, you know, people look at, at guys like you and me, and they go, man, if only I could be Tracy, or if, if only I, I could, I could be Jason. And because they don't face the stuff. And it's the truth is, like, like, there's no one that's escaping. You know, it's kind of like life and death. Like, you didn't get to choose whether you were born, and you probably won't get to choose when you die. You just get to choose whether or not you live. And I really feel like that's true. Um, I remember last year in, um, March, I've shared the story before, but it's just so relevant to me. Last year in March, I was on my way to Taiwan. And, and Taiwan's a, it's a long international trip. As you know, they're just, they're heavy. I was going to speak five, time, 15 times in, in, uh, five days. And it's 80-minute sessions translated. It's just a lot. And while I was on my way there, um, my wife called me and she said, hey, uh, we have $1,000 in the bank. You know? And I'm like, oh man, that sucks. It's just so horrible. And, uh, so I reached out to a couple friends. And, and I've, I have a friend group. There's 12 of us that meet every other week, and we, and we've been really tight for a long time. And so I just said to him, like, hey guys, this is where I'm at. I, couple of my kids are sick. I'm leaving for eight days. I'm going to speak a bunch, and I got $1,000 in the bank. Like, please pray for me. And my friends reached out. Two of my friends, of course, reached out and said, hey, if you need to borrow money, we got you. And I wrote back to him and I said, I don't want to borrow money. I want to figure out how to change my life. Wow. And because this is an area, honestly, this is the truth. Like, this is an area where I did not feel self-reliant. I did not have confidence. I, I had, you know, I've been a pastor for literally, this is 20 years that I've been a pastor on staff at Bethel Church. And I don't think entrepreneurially. I don't, I wasn't trained to think that way. I wasn't trained to think, you know, how can I, how can I grow this part of my life and still be a blessing? And, and it was very scary and very painful. It was those two things. It's scary, man. I got five kids, and I got $1,000 in the bank, and I got real bills with, you know, that that are really happening. And, and a wife that really, really is expecting me to step up. And I had to take a real hard look at my life and go, you don't know what to do here. What are you going to do? And I think one of the first steps for me is always, who, who, who in my life does know? Who knows what I need to know? And I'll tell you, like, in, in doing that, I had to really face my ego. And, um, my mom and my dad, I called my mom and I called my dad and I said, hey, this is where I'm at. And, and the truth is, I could have asked to borrow money from my dad, and he wouldn't have thought twice about it. And, but I, I called my parents and I said, hey, would you come look at our finances? Look how we're spending it. Look how, look where it's going. And, um, I, I, I need to build a plan. I can't live like this anymore. And so my dad and mom came over, and they looked. And my dad says, hey, good news. I said, oh, awesome. What's the good news? He says, you're not wasting any money. I said, oh. He said, you just don't have any. You don't make it. He, don't make any. Yeah, right. Like, we don't got to teach you new habits. We got to, we got to help you. You know? And, and that's where they started to say, like, hey, there's only so much fat that you can trim before you start cutting muscle. And, you know, you can only not eat so much stuff, and you can only not afford so much stuff. And so, anyways, you know, I didn't have to, like, for me, sometimes when we think about self-reliance, we're just thinking about courage areas, you know, like, I'm going to build a house or go hunting or. But I think the bigger areas are, I gotta face my wife's emotions. I've gotta, I've gotta shore up some debt that I have. I've got to change the way that I, I'm, I'm doing life. I have to get, get men. I don't have any men in my life. Like, to me, those are the real areas, right? Like, those become the real areas that we're impoverished, that we're enslaved, that, like, you studied poverty. Those are the real areas that when we look at self-reliance, like that, we can't rely on ourselves. It's the porn problem, right? Like, I, I don't have the ability to rely on myself. The, the inner man, that inner conviction, and lead myself well. And that becomes, okay, I'm enslaved because I actually don't know how to get to the next step here. I don't know how to get myself out of it.
I think, I think this is brilliant because what you did is, doesn't seem like self-reliance in the sense that I'm calling friends, I'm calling people. But you're doing what a self-reliant person does. They figure out the problem. What is, where this, here's where I am. That's how you started every conversation. Here, let me tell you where I am. That is the first step of knowing where you are. And that's one of the four stages of an emotional intelligent person. If you're going to be self-reliant, you have to have emotional intelligence. You have to be aware of where you are. Here's where I am. Then the second stage of, of emotional intelligence is self, uh, relational, relational management. Managing the relationships around you. Listen, here's where I am. This is what I know. You know this. This is how I need you in my life right now. I'm going to do that. So I'm going to be self-aware. I'm going to be socially, I'm going to be relationally aware. Then I'm going to be socially aware. What do I need to do with my world around me to make me a better world? And how do I can, how do I affect my wife? This is affecting my wife. So you're socially aware. That's the third, that's the third key to emotional intelligence. I'm socially aware. My kids, my circumstances, you as parents, all this. I'm aware of others outside of me. Then it becomes relationship management. Now I'm not only aware of my relationship, now how do I manage myself in this? And that's what self-reliance is. Is how you manage yourself in the midst of a world that's around you, where you have other people, you have other people's problems, you have your problems, you have church problems, you have 15 times going to speak in Fed day problems. I'm getting a phone call from my wife for problems. I have friends that, hey, I have money for you. But then I don't want to do that because I, right? You have problems. And I think this idea of being a man is God sits down and says, listen, we're going to create a being, and we're going to make them get where their, their natural desire is to get as close to death as possible, and then not die, and then come out and go, we didn't die. Let me tell you how it happened. It's like, and then model that in front of, because that's pretty much what we do from the time we climb trees when we're a kid, to the time that we're taking, you know, tire, tire chains and trying to start a car with it. Those are near-death experiences. And those, those times are the times that really are, are forming us and making us. And it shows us that we literally are created in the image of God, because God looked at darkness and he says, oh, this can be better. God looked at void and said, this is better. This can be better. And then he created us out of that same, reli, self-reliance. He gave us his self-reliance in the power, the gifts of God, the Holy Spirit, the, the word of God. He made us in His image and his likeness, that we are exactly in his, in his likeness.
Bro, it's so, I have chills over here. It's incredible because, you know, again, I'm with you. Like, most guys, most church culture wants to tell you, you know, God's the one that's going to do it. God's the one that's going to save you. God's the one that, and although we would, we can't do, we can do nothing apart from Christ, the flip side of that is, God's not coming in and parenting your kids. God's not coming in and changing your marriage. God's not coming in and getting you dressed and waking you up in the morning. It's time to go to work. That's us. That is our life. And, of course, we got to partner with God. But I'm the one that's got to make a decision on what, who I'm going to be, where I'm going to go, how hard I'm going to work, what I'm willing to sacrifice. And way too many people are waiting for God to come and make their life better. He's not going to come and make your life better. He's coming for you to, to make your life better. He's going to give you the power. He's going to give you a couple tools. But, uh, that shovel is not going to dig its own hole. You're going to dig it. And, uh, man, this whole, what I like about this series has been, again, helping guys to look at the different attributes in their life and go, okay, how can I tackle this? How can I get this going in my life? How can I improve this? And this is one of those that guys, if you have, uh, a very low confidence in your ability to, to execute, to follow through, that you can, the first step is, don't shame yourself, right? It's not, you're bad, something's wrong with you, you're less of a man. You know, you got to go get your man card punched. None of that's true, right? Then, none of that's true. Tracy and I both have had places and have places in our life where we're having to, to confront this, to step up, and, and to really go, okay, this is an area where I actually have a lot of insecurity being able to rely on myself. What am I going to do about that? What am I going to do about that? You can lay in your bed and feel sorry. You can wish you had a better dad like Tracy. You can wish that, that you had a more training and, uh, better teaching, like me, in finances. Or you can say, okay, this is an area I'm afraid in. I'm going to have to be brave, get some courage, but I got to execute. I got to move forward. Because it really is, the, the key to all of this stuff is, confidence comes through competency. And you gain competency as you try, as you do. It's John Maxwell's, um, success ladder, right? It's, it's that I'm willing to, um, to, to have an idea. I try that idea. It fails. I look and I learn. I research why it failed. I execute again, right? I try again, and then I fail a little less than last time. And I look at it, I observe it. It's just when we learn to fail up, that's how we begin to build confidence. You can also reach out to other men in your life, like I did, and go, hey, this is an area that I suck at, but I want to grow. There's nothing about that that's bad, right? That doesn't make you weak. That doesn't even mean you can't rely on yourself. It actually means I can rely on myself to find a solution. Everything that you need in your life isn't inside here. It's not, everything that you need in your life is probably inside of your community. It probably is. And you have to be able to rely on yourself that when you get to the end of your rope, that you're going to reach out. And, and even before you get to the end of your rope, that you're going to go, how do I best solve this problem? How do I best grow this area? How do I best? We got to kick our ego to the side, right? And be willing to step up and to do the things that are hard.
So your, uh, your activation this week, we're doing these weekly activations that are really fun. And I think guys, let's find that one area in your life that you go, man, I just, I don't feel like I can rely on myself here. It could be, uh, uh, pornography. It could be your finances. It could be the way that you communicate to your wife. It could be, uh, a, a, um, something at your work or your business that you're running. And I want you to, to start asking the Holy Spirit, what's the solution to this? Who can I, who can I count on to, to help me learn this? How can I grow myself? How can I push into the pain and grow myself here? How do I tackle this problem? And, and it will start with, I just want you to maybe start with what Tracy did, and look in the mirror and say to yourself, you can solve this. You can do this. Or you're a genius. Whatever it is, it's that thing where you start to say, you're not stuck. This isn't your forever. This is an opportunity for you to grow. You can do this. So guys, um, let's tackle the hard things. And, uh, and let's build some of these attributes in our life that really help us grow strong as men. Tracy, did I leave anything out?
That's solid. I think, you know, when you, I think the, the only other thing I would say is, make sure when you're working on yourself at that level, you're also celebrating something in your life, so that you don't get like bogged down on on how difficult this is. Know that, man, I'm, but I'm, I am winning here. I am winning here. And be your best cheerleader. Be your own cheerleader. At, at the same time, is be your own person that's helping you, that's breaking you through.
I love that. It's James 1. Consider it pure joy, or hilarious laughter, when you encounter various trials, right? For the testing of your faith produces perseverance. And, and that is, uh, that's such a massive key. Is we have to, you're not going to task, hard, hardcore taskmaster yourself into into a life that you love. You're not, that's slavery. So you're going to rejoice. You're going to count it, uh, pure joy. You're going to, it's, it's for the joy set before God that he endured the cross. All those things give us the energy to actually follow all the way to the end.
Tracy, you are a gift, man. You're a blessing, and I appreciate you coming on here. I'd love to have you on again and talk about your life and, and unpack it, because man, I just know there's so much inside of you and what you've been through. And again, as a guy who's been in ministry for for 20 years and is starting to lead men and stuff, you've been doing this stuff for a lot longer than I have. And, um, just the, the legacy that, that guys like you have laid, uh, for, for guys like me, and it's just incredible, man. So I appreciate it.
Thank you, man. This was great. And I know that your listeners are blessed every week and every time you produce. So thank you for inviting me, introducing me to your tribe. And I'd love to have you come on my show and, and let's do some work together. Let's, let's do this together. I'm excited.
Thank you. Amazing, bro. Brave Co, let's go out and kick some butt this week. Stay brave, guys. We'll see you next week.
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