Piers Morgan vs Zlatan Ibrahimovic | The Full, Uncut Interview

He's an entertainer, an artist, the star of a one-man show. The stage is always his. He calls himself a lion; sometimes he calls himself the goat. Well, now the biggest ego in world sport meets a similarly proportionate ego on center stage. It's Zlatan Ibrahimovic, uncensored.

Zlatan, how are you?

I'm good, thank you.

I can't think of anybody better suited to do an interview for a show called Piers Morgan Uncensored than you.

I think I'm the perfect guy for you.

Do you feel like you've always been uncensored?

I feel, uh, yeah, I feel I've been myself always. Even if people think I try to act or something, but I think I look, I see, and I say so, wrong and right. I'm being myself, myself. I think it's very important.

Will I get to the real you in this interview?

100%.

You've just retired. Yes. Something I don't think you probably thought would ever happen. You worried about it happening? You were concerned about it happening? What's the reality been like?

I just retired three months ago, and uh, I agree with you that if I want it or not is different, but I accepted it because, in the end, I was not feeling good. I could have continued; I could have continued suffering in a physical way and uh, keep going, but I wanted to feel good, and I didn't want to have a consequence after my career where I'm limping or I cannot do things with my boys. So I chose to stop, and I think I stopped at the right moment. But to be honest with you, when I see all the other strikers out there, I could still play because I, I would do much more than them and better than them. And that's not for my ego; that's fact.

You want to name some names?

I could give you many names, probably 95% of them out there.

So you think you're better than 95%, even now?

I am better. I don't think—I'd take your—I would take your ass.

Okay, could be, could be. I had a chance to go there, but I know you don't. We're going to come to that. It breaks my heart; I can't even think about it.

Um, we're at the Shaftesbury Theatre, one of London's great theaters. Here, you're used to being on the big stage. This is one of the big stages of theater. It's an empty crowd; there's no one here.

Yeah, just a few people. You should have brought me the crowd.

Well, I wanted to see how you—I, I would make them bounce.

You would? You would 100%. How are you going to deal with not having the big crowds, being on the big stage with a big crowd, and now, now this?

I think I don't need that. I, I've, I've been doing it for 20 years, 25 years. I played in front of 90,000, and uh, I made him bounce; I made him chair; I made him whistle; I made him hate; I made him love. So all these things, and uh, I don't have that ego that I need attention now because I am who I am. I'm remembered for what I did on the field, so I'm not looking for attention; I'm not looking to get recognized and uh, and all those things. Because, or else I would choose to be a commentator. I would do those things that you have these ex-players doing, because they're doing it because they still miss the attention; they want to be seen in front of the camera. And um, and I understand them, because when you're on the field, you feel alive, and when you go there, you get this adrenaline; you feel the grass; you feel the duels; you feel the heat; you feel the atmosphere. And then, depending on what kind of player you are—I'm a very emotional player when I'm on the field—so I switch from one thing to another thing. And uh, but now is a different thing. Now I, I will live a, let's say, a normal life, and uh, hopefully a normal life.

What do you want to do? Have you worked it out yet?

I have. I'm doing more. I mean, now three months has gone, so I'm doing more things now than I did when I was active. So I have my collaborations; I do different things, things and different projects.

I'm a little bit curious about the acting thing, because I've been trying some things in front of the camera. I mean, I'm not shy. If I'm a good actor, I don't know.

I don't think—I can see you playing a James Bond villain.

Villain? Yeah, yes. I would smash James Bond, but he could win in the end. I'm okay with that, but during the movie, I would smash him, and then, and then probably I would lay somewhere 2 meters under the ground, which is okay.

You smile; you light up the room; you're very charming. You seem a very nice guy when you don't smile.

Yes, I look—you have a very severe face, which I've seen on many a football field. You could be a good villain. I think, I think also because, and for my English also, I sound like a, I don't know, criminal Russian type. So could be, could be. But I'm, I'm interested; I'm curious now, like, to see how it works, and and why not? I mean, just to try some different, uh, different things.

At your last game, AC Milan supporters were obviously going crazy for you. You made a very emotional, heartfelt address; it was very moving actually. And at one stage, it was interrupted by the Verona fans booing you, and you stopped, you stopped talking to your fans, and you addressed the Verona fans, and you said, "Keep booing; this is the biggest moment in your year, seeing me."

Yes, I love that. I—me, that was me being me, exactly. That was me being me. And uh, like I said, you whistle, you chair, but for them, was the moment of the year, because seeing me is not for everybody. So that's the way they, they enjoyed it. Because remember, if they whistle you or talk bad about you, it's because you're number one.

Did you play better when you were in front of home supporters cheering you or when you were away somewhere like Inter Milan, where they wanted to kill you?

I mean, when you play on the highest level, you need to fight trigger points, because obviously, after a while, you get used to one thing, and then when you're used to one thing, you don't, you don't get triggered the same way. Obviously, you're a professional guy; you go out, you do your job. But for me, it was about getting triggered; I needed to get adrenaline. And playing home could be defense; could be the opponent. I, I needed to find trigger points where I trigger myself, and I, I became more active. But I have to admit that away games, I feel alive; I feel very alive. Where the—let's say, a way against Inter, which is still my home because it's my stadium still, and 90,000 whistling you—I feel alive, because I feel—

With you, Zlatan, that your whole life has been a fight.

Yes. And that's the way you've actually liked it. You were brought up in an environment like that; you played football in that environment; you were at your best when you were in a scrap. And it was interesting going over your life and reviewing it; you actually said you viewed football as you viewed life: it's a fight, you said. And of course, you're a Taekwondo black belt as well, so you do actually know how to properly fight.

I need to be angry to play well, you said. I need to shout and make some noise. And then your uh, co-writer on your autobiography, uh, David, he said, "Complex is the best way to describe Zlatan. On the one hand, he's a strong warrior type who knew he had to be very tough to survive, so he takes on a fight all the time because he's always had to. But another part of him is vulnerable; he's a guy wounded by his upbringing. He uses all that to create strength for himself in his position. 99 guys out of 100 would have gone under, but he used his anger to make himself better."

That's true. You think that's an accurate—

I think it's a correct picture of me, because even if I'm not in a fight, I'm looking for a fight, because it's something that kicks—I get a kick off; I get adrenaline off. And where I came from, it was about survival mode. I mean, the, the strongest guy would survive, and uh, and to survive, you needed to be tough; you needed to show your tough, and uh, and that's where I came from, but I brought it in my game also. And um, and I had moments where it was going against me; moments where it was giving me advantage. And uh, and all around me was—they were talking, like it always is. Media, they criticize you; they talk about you; and uh, and they, they want to have something to say. But that was me. If I would not be like that, I would not be where I am, or maybe sit here and speak to Piers Morgan.

So will I get a better interview out of you by being nice to you or if I start yanking your chain, insulting you a bit, roughing you up a bit? But I get the real Zlatan then.

No, you get—you will get the real Zlatan in any, any question. I mean, if you're looking for something, I will give it to you. If you, if you just keep it on a simple way, I still give it to you, because I have a lot of experience. I mean, in front of media, I gave them—they gave me, but I'm enjoying at that moment. I think I had moments where media thought that I have some kind of acting thing, image, because I want to do a hardcore image for the media, and then I'm soft on the inside. But I'm not afraid to say what I think; I'm not afraid to, to do what I believe in. Then afterward, afterwards, they, they give you or nothing. I mean, it's me; I cannot change me. I'm not here to be beautiful or uh, or to be perfect to somebody. I think being yourself is perfect. You will do mistakes; you will learn from your mistakes; and you will still do mistakes. So I think it's important being yourself. I came to America; I saw actors; I saw big shots trying to make the perfect image, and I go to one of the shows, and they're like, "Where's your crew or entourage?" And I'm like, "What about my entourage?" No, but normally, like famous people, they come with 20 people. I say, "You're here for me or my entourage, for you?" I'm here, so I don't need them to make my image; I'm here for myself. So that's why I say—I always say, be yourself. Being perfect is being yourself.

And I think authenticity has a power to it.

I think so, yes. And me getting angry, and that, that's me. I need, I need to get fired up, so that's how I bring out sharpness; that's how I bring out the best out of me when I walk on fire. Because if you make me feel too comfortable—I'm playing to win, and to win, I will destroy you; I will do everything to win. And I need to win, because when I win is my, is my proof that I am, I am alive. And that's wherever I came from; I was like that. But then I had some, I had situations where I have teammates, they would crack; they would not make it; they would cry in front of me, but I don't care, because I'm here to win. Because I played in top five clubs in the world—I played maybe three of them—and if I don't do my job, they bring in somebody else, and I'm not there anymore. So that's why I say it's about survival mode. I'm not here to be nice or to be bad; I'm here to win. So to win, I needed to, to get those trigger—find those trigger points to get the best out of me.

I think to understand why you're like this, I want to take you back to Malmö, to Rosengård, where you grew up. You've described it as being like a ghetto; it was a rough, tough place. You said, "You can take a guy away from Rosengård, but you can't take Rosengård out of a guy."

Yeah. What do you mean by that?

I mean, I can go, I can come, I can make it out of the ghetto, but the ghetto will stay in me. So I came from Rosengård, because I am still who I am, even if I'm not there. And that's what I say: you, you can take yourself out of a place, but the place you were raised and, and, and born in, it will still be, still be in you. So that I would never change for success; I would never change for whatever happens to me; I will still be the same guy, because the real, the real thing will stay and survive longer. Not because I come in a nice area now; I bought a nice house in a nice area; I become them. No, no. I'm still myself. But my proof to them is I can, I can also live here, even if I'm from that area. And I think it's important because you need to represent where you come from, but obviously, then you need discipline; you need respect; you need education. Cannot be an animal in your own—where you come from, and then animal there. You need to, you need to keep the discipline and the respect. Which you said that—where I come from, people were always judging me and telling me, "No, that's not possible." I want to show kids growing up like I did that anything is possible. I'm the living proof; you can succeed.

Do you think you've had that impact on young people who were in your position?

100%. Because where I came from, with my background—if you look at the, the history, like the, in my game, my football game, there were not a lot of players with different backgrounds that would make it or that would get the possibility or the chance just to show themselves. And I'm happy that I, I went through all these walls just to open the door for the next generation. So I open the door; they have to step in. So I cannot talk for them; I cannot, uh, prep—I mean, do the things for them; I just open the doors. And I had to go through a lot to come where I am and to show everybody that it's possible and make them accept also that it's okay, whoever you are, to give you a chance. Then I talk Sweden, because that is my base, then obviously you become a global person, and and it spreads out. Because for me, we're all the same, but still different. So all of us has the same possibilities to make it, but then it's up to you also whatever you want to do.

Tell me about your parents; um, your father first of all, Sefić. He was a caretaker.

Yeah.

Um, I was interested that he, he suffered quite a lot of torment as a result of the war in Yugoslavia; um, it affected him quite deeply. I think—have you ever had a chance to really talk about that with him?

No, because he never spoke about it with me. I, I had to—so I was living with my father; we were like five children. My, my, my brother passed away, my big brother, a couple of years ago. I have two bigger sisters that I don't have contact with; I have another bigger sister than me that we have the same parents. It's a big mix.

Yeah.

And we still have contact, contact. And my little brother, we, we still have contact today. But I was living alone with my, with my father. And in the beginning, was okay, because I mean, the father—he did every—my father did, did everything to, to survive, to, to bring in money, to, to pay the bill, to pay the rent, to make me feel happy. He did his maximum and the best out of the conditions that was there. And then the war started, started. Then he was more distant from me, because he kept everything away from me, and uh, and he took it very hard. Because I remember, like, it's no secret that my father was—he drank, and he was sitting there with his phone, tried to reach out for the family members. I don't know what was going on, because I was pretty small at that time, and but, but I could see. And often what you see stays longer than what you hear. So, but we never discussed about it; he never put me in between. He tried to help family members, so fugitives came to Sweden, family members, and he helped them, and he put his name on it. And and I remember he was up during the night and that, always with the, on the phone, and uh, tried to help out. But I was, I was young, and I was crazy; I was wild; I was out; I was playing football a lot. I still had the discipline to go to school, because if I would not go to school, my, my father would smash me, which is, which is normal in our world.

So how would he do that?

No, he would, he would become aggressive; he would, he would make sure I do it. He would not hit me. My mother would hit me; she was the one hitting, not my father.

My father—I read your mother used a wooden spoon.

Wooden spoon, and hit me. So when that would break, she would say to me, "Go buy a new one."

But I didn't break it; you broke it.

But was still my fault.

How many spoons did you have to buy?

A lot, a lot, a lot. Then it came to a certain moment, like, how do you call the thing you put when you press the bread, like the round—when she came with that part—

Yeah, yeah.

Then I run away. I said, "This is too hard; this you cannot touch me with." But for us, was normal; for us, was normal.

I understand. But there'll be people watching this who have not experienced that from their parents. Do you feel that you carried mental scars from the, from—no being hit or not?

No. It made me stronger. It Made Me Stronger. Because now when I'm a parent myself, I understood what my parents went through, and uh, and it's not easy. I mean, we live now in 2023, different conditions; I live different—I can come with a suit whatever for this kind of a moment; they couldn't, they couldn't do those things. My mother had five children; she was a cleaner.

Your mother—she was a cleaner. She brought home probably—I don't know, in pounds, like, let's say, euros—and to feed all these five children, and and she was working from, from 7 to 4. So we went to school; I have older sisters; I had an older brother, but my big brother was from my father's side, so he was not involved in my mother's case. And she had to feed everybody, and it was not easy, and we were all young, crazy, and wild, so it was not easy. So that was her way to, to put the discipline on us. But if I would go back and say, "It's not okay," no, I would say it was okay, because it made me who I am today. And I understand in many eyes it's not okay, but under that conditions, different mentality, different approach. They're from Balkan, ex-Yugoslavia, and and it's different mentality, and it's normal there. In some countries it's not normal; it's—I mean, you can even sue or whatever.

What's your relationship like with your parents today?

I'm closer with my mother; with my father, it's, it's been like it was before, before—not so close as my mother, 'cause he's two big egos—to—I am my father. So when he fights me, he fights himself, which he doesn't understand, because I am like him; he made me who I am. So, let's say, he, he would come in my garage, and I have—it's not a secret—I have a lot of nice cars, and he would say, "What are you doing with those cars? You, you should sell them." I said, "Listen, you do your thing; I do my thing." So he triggers me; he, he, he challenges me, but I am like him.

Is he proud of you though, for what you've achieved?

Yes. He's very proud, because when, when I became professional, semi-professional in my team in Sweden, he started to—he, he had his living room only pictures of me; it was like a museum. So he got a new perspective in life, to follow me; to—he would give me even advice how to play, and he would say—he was good at the game, but it's okay; he's still my father, so I would listen, but still do my thing. And he would be the first one to, to criticize me, to complain. So even if I would be, let's say, out of balance on the field, which he would also be, he would be the first one to say to me, "It's not okay; you need to have discipline; you need to respect the referees," when I would attack the referees. "You cannot do that," and all those things. But he's talking to himself now, so—but you learn; he's a learning process.

So there's a story—I, I love about you and your dad—that he bought a, a bed from Ikea to bring home, and you couldn't afford to—for it to be brought home for—so you, you both carried this bed.

He carried the bed; I had to carry the, the side things of it, which was—

You carried all the way back from—my kid—all the way back.

So he would, he would say—we went to buy a bed, because I said to him, "Papa, I'm growing; I need a new bed." "Okay, let's go buy it." And we went to buy it, and uh, it would cost money to transport the bed to home, and he didn't have the money. And I was like, "What do we do now?" "I carry it." And he started to carry it, and he was walking, and I could see him getting pumped, adrenaline, and and I was walk—walking behind him with the—how do you call the side things of the bed? Like—

Yeah, I know. Yeah, whatever.

And uh, and I would slow down, because I was, I was still small and not strong as today. So I would slow down, and he would get angry with me because I was slowing down, and he said, "Hurry, hurry," and uh, and he was getting angry for me for slowing down. So I tried to catch him and to stay with the same rhythm, but obviously I couldn't, because it was heavy. But it took us one and a half hour to come home, to carry the bed.

So he would do everything for me; everything. He also paid—he paid once—gave all his salary—the bill—he—to travel to a training camp, even though he could barely pay the rent. So he made a lot of—even though he was this macho guy, and that maybe gave you that streak as well—he was also a father who tried to give you everything that he could.

He gave me everything; he gave me everything. And uh, he even gave me more than, than he should, because like you—the example you gave—he paid my football trip instead of paying his, uh, paying the rent for our apartment. So he would delay it one, two months, and uh, he just wanted us to have good—have—but with discipline, with discipline, mentality of the way he wanted it to be.

What do you think the proudest he's ever felt for you in your career?

He will not show it; he will not show it.

What do you think it might be?

I think me being on the big stage, playing my game, it's his moment of proudness, because I wear his last name, Ibrahimovic. And I did one mistake when I came to Ajax—I don't know if you're familiar with it—I had Zlatan on my shirt, and I every time I met my father, he wouldn't say to me like—he didn't like it, but I could see it, but I didn't understand, because I was full of adrenaline. And when I was in the papers, when everybody would talk about me, they would say, "Zlatan, Zlatan, Zlatan." So in my head was Zlatan, Zlatan; it was not Ibrahimovic. So I say, "Let's make something different; why be like everybody else?" I put Zlatan the first year, and I know on him—he, he was not okay with it. And then I say, "I bear my—I wear my last name, and I continue to bring that generation from generation, and I will bring it to the next generation in my boys." So I changed it to Ibrahimovic, and uh, and I think me having Ibrahimovic on my back on the big stage for him is a proud moment; is a very big proud moment. And uh, even if he's a strong, macho guy, he would not show it, because that's who he is. I will give you another example that I think not many knows. I came home; I bought a car for him; said, "This is your car; you—I want you to have it; I want you to drive it." And that—I don't need a car.

What, what was the car?

It was like a Mercedes C-Class, 'cause I said, like, big car; you need to look like the Balkan type, cool, say you drive around with it; you're my father, and uh, and you should be proud. And he said, "I don't need a car." And I said—then now he triggers me, because now he's talking to himself. I said, "Listen, it's your car; you drive it. And there is not a sub—let's say, we, we sit in a table; I would say, 'Can you hand me over the butter?' That would be the polite way. And I would say, 'Stupid, give me the butter,' but not to my father, to my sisters and brother. So when he say, 'I don't need the car,' it's your car; I don't care; you do whatever you want with it." And I throw the key on the table. And it's funny, because after one week, I'm driving in the city, and I see that car—I recognize a car—and I say, "That's a car I bought," and I go close—close—that was him driving it. So in front of me, he would not show it, but then when I'm not there, he would, he would use it. So is this proudness—like he's the boss under his roof—so he would say, "I don't need nothing from you; this is my roof; I, I am good as I am."

What about your mother? You have a better relationship with her; a closer one with her.

Closer.

How's her life now? What have you been able to do for her? I mean, you bought her a lovely home, I think, didn't you?

I bought a lot of stuff, which is normal. You—tried to help out. What I understood fast, quick in my, in my life when I became successful was—I will help you, but I will not interfere in your private life, because I'm not the one to choose for you or change you, but I will help you; I will make it easier for you. So that, that had changed very fast. So I help everybody; I made it easier for everybody, but under condition—still, you have to work for yourself, because I don't want to change your life. I said to my father, "You are who you are before, and you will be who you are afterwards also. You cannot become who you are and then become a rockstar because I help you, because from a rockstar what do you become, come? And then when I stop and there's no more helping, what happens then? Then you go back from Broar to—then you become depressed; you change your life." So I help you; I make it easier for you. So my mother—let's say, I gave everybody a home, which is standard, because everybody should have a home and live good. And then I, I always say—because my image—because I say image stays longer than the, than what you hear here—so when I was—I grew up—I had an empty fridge, which is not a secret. I always make sure they have a full fridge, because that—when I moved together with my, with my Helena, I said, "Listen, the only demands I have from you that the fridge has to be full, because every time I open the fridge, I want it to be full, even if I will not take something out; I just want to take away that image where it's empty." And I have milk; I have cheese; I have ham; and nothing more. And I want to take out that image from my—when I was raised, and have a full fridge, even if I would not pick up something. And and I make sure they have a full fridge and and an extra penny in the pocket, so whenever you need something in emergency case, you buy—but don't go out and buy, spend if you don't just for fun, because it's not the way—

I totally understand that. Did you feel as you grew up that you had love from your parents, even if they had a strange way of showing it?

I think we show love in a different way. In my family, we show love by aggression; we show love in a hard way. We are not the ones—we clap you on the back; we hug you; we, we hold you around—that is not the way we show love; we have a more rougher environment.

You were bullied when you were young, you said.

I was a small guy; had a big nose; had a lisp. I—speech therapy; a woman came to school and told me to pronounce the letter S. I thought it was humiliating; I had to prove myself.

You were hungry, as you've just said; you began to steal a lot of things—bikes, suits, cars—everything and anything you said. Um, one day you stole the postman's bike; that was a great bike, a military bike, you said. Um, you could have—I guess, like a lot of people in that world—you could have just continued down a life of crime, maybe ended up in prison or worse, dead. Do you think about that crossroads in your life?

The football gave me the way out. I think football—it, it, it rescued me, because obviously, where I came from, there is right side—no, you go right side or you go left side, and you choose what you want. But I think with my father, with the discipline, because every time I did something stupid and he would know about it, he would let me know, and he would let me know in his own way. So that gave me a little—I, I was scared about it, but at the same time, I continued to do it, because I wanted to do things; I wanted to have things like the other ones had, and I didn't have things like my, my friends have, like the people in school had. So, and I did it in my own way, because I couldn't get it from my, from my father, because I was raised up by, by my father. So he made me scared of doing stupid things, but still I did it, because it, it triggered me. And then football—I always played football, because my mental—where I came from—we played football; we played football. And the mentality was—I'm the best; he uncensored the rest. So that was my mentality and my, my motto. So everything I did, I wanted to be the best, and playing football—playing football. And then one day my father said, "Let's go play or try in, in the higher level of football," we—and I came there, and they took me in straight. So football was always my main thing, even if I did all these things around—around the stupid things, which, which I think many, many, many does, but I speak for myself.

So have you ever met any of the people that bullied you?

Yeah, many of them. I think I was more bullied by the media than, than people around me, really, if I'm honest. But the one, the ones who bullied you when you were young, you've met them since you were successful?

I've seen them, but I haven't really, really talked to them. Because friends, friends come and go, because you have friends when you're young, but you will understand who your real friends is when money come in the picture.

What do you feel though about those bullies? Do you feel—I showed you—or do you feel anything?

You know what? Everybody has a dream to become something. If we share the same dream, I cannot—I don't have any hate for that person, because if we share the same dream, we believe in the same thing, and then I make it, you don't make it, and you treat me bad when you were young, I cannot dislike you. It's the same thing now on the field; if I fight with somebody, if I don't like somebody on the field, I cannot hate that person, because we share the same dream.

But is the best revenge success?

In some moments, yes. Because like I describe my anger—when I do things, let's say, the media attack me, the—they, they call me—they say stupid things about me; they, they say things—because remember, I played when you didn't have digital platforms, so I could not react like the way we can react today, because you can do whatever—you just use a digital platform; you get your saying—on my time, I had to wait; I had to wait until I see next time that person, and I would say it in his face, or I would catch him, and I would do something there, and there was no limit there.

Have you actually—have you hit journalists?

No. But I've been close by to, to have that anger to hit them, but I didn't come so far, because I was always like—it will come back to me.

What would annoy you the most that the media would say about you?

I mean, when it becomes personal. I had moments where they would say personal stuff about me, judge me by where I come from, the way I look, the way my style was, the way I show my love, because I didn't show my love by hugging people. I was very, very aggressive as a type when I was young, and but that didn't mean I want—I want you bad; I want something bad to happen to you. That was the way I was.

Was the family upbringing you had—was my family—well, the upbringing you had was that you showed love in a different way—that love was quite—they didn't understand me

That was his aim. He had some players where I would say, "You don't need him; he's a waste of time." He said, "No, no, I need to change him. I need to, let's say, save him."

What was the best advice he gave you? He always said to me, "Be happy and enjoy what you do." Because he wouldn't always see me happy; he wouldn't always see me enjoying what I do. So his motto was like, "Happy and enjoy," which is difficult because, the person I am, I'm never satisfied because I always want more. And, like I said, I needed this kind of anger on the field, and like you did, like you said before, to bring out the best out of me—you described me before, bring out the best of me—I needed to find these things.

So Mino would say—because he knows me, he knows me perfectly—when I didn't want to go to a club, he knew exactly how to guide me versus whatever he wanted because he had a vision. He saw the future before it, like, it happened. He knew we would stay a short time in, let's say, Barcelona, but not because to make money, which would sound and make sense. We change commission, whatever you make. No, he would say, "After a short while, you don't fit in here; this will last short." He would say when I moved from Milan, "They cannot pay anymore; it's like sinking." Then he would say, "In Paris, we go to Paris because that project only you can change. Then when we leave, it's finished." So he had this vision before it happened. He said it. He would say, "We need to create problems; we need to make problems." I would say, "Why?" Because we are at our best when we have problems because we need to solve them. When things are normal, it's not okay because we are not normal; we're above normal. So he would trigger me in that way. I'd say, "Okay, tell me what you want; you be the bad guy, be the nice guy." So when we would change clubs, he'd say, "You go and say some words; we open the door. Then I go, and I'm the soft guy." So we would play the game, good cop, bad cop. Yes, but the thing is, he would be the bad cop because if he doesn't get what he wants, chairs are flying, tables are flying. I would say, "Listen, the deal, you can break the deal, I don't give a—." I'd say, "Listen, don't do that; listen, you focus on yourself, I focus on me; you do your thing, I do my thing." So yeah, he would put the wall between us, and it's your problem, not mine. Like this, we would trigger. So when it happened, it was a big loss because he was like a role model for me: father, friend, agent, example. And yeah, I learned a lot from him. So, like I said, I still miss him; we all miss him.

You would enjoy with him 100%. I met him once, very briefly. This interview, uncensored, you would—he was a great character, agent; everyone knew that. And I'm very sorry for you that you lost such a close friend. The other person you said was the most important, of course, is your partner, Helena. She was an economics graduate, a successful former children's television presenter, 11 years older than you. You met at Malmö train station, outside of Bo0 Des. Her first impression wasn't great, Zlatan. No, you were 20; she thought you were pretty rude, pretty cocky, a bit of a yobo. You turned around; how did you manage to convince her you weren't her worst fears? I mean, I didn't give up because I saw this blonde girl, and I was in my Ferrari; I wanted to act cool, be cool, but she had a pretty cool car also. So I parked the car and I was like, "Listen," trying to be cool, and she was ignoring me totally. I was like, that was not the response I wanted to have. And I was shy when I was young; I was shy because I wasn't feeling the guy I am today, let's say. Because when I came the first time in the city, I was 18 years old. I didn't know about these blonde girls because where I came from, we had a different background, so we're different types of persons, girls. When I came in the city, suddenly I saw all these blondes, I saw different movements which I didn't know existed because I was never in the center; I was always in my neighborhood. Then I saw this Helena, and I was like, "Beautiful girl! Wow, wow, wow!" She ignored me totally, and I was like, "That's not okay." And I knew a friend that knew her, and I was sending messages; she was ignoring me there also, but I didn't give up. And I think when you don't give up, you reach out, and in the end, I got a possibility. But the funny thing is, in that message I sent her, the first message, I wrote a fairytale, whatever, and then I finished with "the red one," so she would know who it is. The red one was my red Ferrari, because, yeah. And she would answer and say, "With the black one," because her sports car was black. I was like, "Okay." And then from there we started to talk, get to know each other. But she was 10 years older than me, 11 years older, so I was a little child for her; I was immature for her. So she was elegant, moving around good, knew what she was doing, knew what she wanted. Date, date, date. And I think we dated for two years. Then when I moved to Italy, I said, "Listen, it's time to come over, and let's try; you never know what it will be, what will happen." And I had to say, if she wouldn't be 11 years older than me, I don't think she would hold out because, like I said, I was very wild, a different way of showing my love; I had a different temperament. But she had a lot of patience, and I think because of the age, she's still there today because she's more mature than me and having patience, or she saw an investment in me; maybe she might have seen it, she saw the future; she might have seen a better you down the line. Right? I mean, you said she understands my character and accepts I'm a bit crazy. I was surrounded by chaos when we met; I was out of control. I'm calmer today. Maybe she realized she could calm the beast. Could be, could be. I mean, like I said, the age, I think, made a difference. Because then you get to know each other, obviously. I think a partner every five years changes. I don't think you're with your wife, you have the same wife like the first day you met her; it's not the same; you don't actually have a wife; you never actually—because I don't want to lose 50%. You have two children. I have two; I have two boys.

Why have you never asked her to marry, or have you? I have, and what happened? She said no. Really? Yes. So she's strong, eh? When was this? This was a couple of years ago because I said, "After 20 years, you deserve to be married with me." She said, "I don't need to be married with you to be with you." She's strong; she's very strong. How did you feel about being rejected? I think it's cool because if you do that, you gain more respect for me because I don't have to win all the time. Are you going to keep trying? No. She had one chance; she will not get a second chance, but she has two boys from me, so that's even bigger than being married. Is it true that, um, when asked what you bought her for a Valentine's Day gift, you replied, "What do you mean, present?" She got Zlatan. That was another girl; that was not my—another girl. Yeah, yeah. You wouldn't try that with Helena; that was not Helena because she will step out of the door straight away. That was another one. So when everything happened around me, a lot of adrenaline, a lot of media tension, every day was a highlight of me in the press. So I was like, this adrenaline needs to continue. My friend was like—and I met this girl—and I asked, how do you say, to—how do you say—to not marry, but you—the first step is your engagement. Engagement. And she said yes, and it was cool because it was adrenaline, but I didn't really understand what it meant because within one year you need to get married. And I said, "No, no, I don't want to get married." But I got a kick of it; like I have a ring, I have a girlfriend, I'm engaged. Then the media said, "What, what kind of present?" The journalist said, "What do you mean, present? She got me; she doesn't need a present." So that was it, engagement gift; I was the gift. Then you broke off the engagement, Brazil. Then after, when I was told you need to marry within one year, the next day I broke up because I said I don't want to marry. I was like, I didn't do it to marry; I did it because it was—I thought I was cool. So I didn't understand; I was young and I didn't—but do you think Helena saying no to you was payback then for the—no, no, no, no. She doesn't care about the past. She was like, "Listen, I don't need to marry to show that I'm together with you, and we have two boys. And to be honest, I don't need a piece of paper to show that she's mine; she's mine." Whatever paper we have among us. I'm told she doesn't allow you to have any pictures of yourself on the walls. She said none. I have none; just a picture of your feet. But that's my idea because the family has to remember where all these things come from, where all the food comes from; it's because of my feet. So it's a reminder for them; every time they step in my gym, they see these feet. So what about your head? The feet magic, but the head? I mean, shouldn't you have a picture of your head somewhere? No, because of my feet. Yeah, but my head controls the feet. You're right, but also you score some great goals with your head. I mean, nah, no, no. My feet talk more for my game. The heading came in the end when I was not fast enough, but no, it's a reminder, and it's a cool picture, but mostly it's a reminder where everything comes from, so not to forget why we are where we are, because of what. So but actually, no pictures of me because she says I've seen so many pictures. And also for my kids because, my kids, I am a father for them; it's important for me to see me as a father and not the professional player Ibrahimovic because they should not grow up in my shadow, let's say, because they are more important than me, and they will never come in a situation where they feel second or third; they are in pole position. So it's very important for me.

Would you want your boys to play elite level football, having been through all the ups and downs you've been through? Yeah, yeah. Why not? They choose themselves. I mean, they're playing football today; they play for Milan, and they're very focused. And the important thing, they don't do it for me because I see a lot of parents now, when I have boys, I bring them to the game, football, but also different kinds of sports. I see they push their kids; they obligate them to do things because you have this problem because everybody in the world now thinks because football is the biggest sport in the world, they make a lot of money, they make a lot of money. So these parents, they invest a lot in their kids. So suddenly they're not parents; they're coaches, they're agents, they're lawyers; they're everything because they see the possibility in their kids. But what they don't understand, you cannot transform the kid to do it for you; they have to do it for themselves. And I'm lucky—no, not lucky—I guided this way that they're doing it for themselves, all for themselves. How do you give them the hunger that you had? They're not hungry. I treat them like they would be my teammates; I don't treat them like they're my boys. If that is okay or not, I don't know, but I treat them like they would be my teammates. I'm direct to them; tough love, very tough, very tough. I judge them like I would judge my teammates, not my boys. So I'm honest, I'm direct, and I push them, push them high, but they choose if they want to do it. It's not like I tell you, I oblige you to do it. Like I would bring them to training, let's say we were living in LA, which you are familiar with, the traffic there is not normal traffic. You go, and I drive one and a half hours to bring them to training. And I said to them, "You do 200% in training because me bringing you to training, I do it for you, not for me. I could do something else, but you give 200%, or else I'm not doing this." But in the end, you're doing it for yourself because every time you step on the field, when players get angry at coaches, teammates, or whoever surrounding, all media, they forget every training they do is not for the surrounding; you do the training for yourself; you do it to become better and make a better version of yourself and test yourself. So I tell them, "You give 100%; if it's a good or bad training, it can happen, but you do it for yourself, and you give 200% because I have other things to do." And I push them so hard that they do the best, and more than that they cannot do. Then if they become professional or not, people think it's easy; it's not easy because everybody thinks, "Hey, I train, I go do individual skills; I don't go do that; I get an agent, I get this coach, and I'll become a pro." Doesn't work like that; it has to be about luck, hard work, where you come from; it's meant that you should be where you are. And it's easy to say, "Hey, I could have been a pro; I would be the best in the world." No, it's not like that; it's all this combined, and then we see what happens. They have to be happy, healthy, healthy but with discipline; they have to do the things because my philosophy is, "Why be normal when you can be the best?" I don't want to be normal; I want to make the difference. So everything I do, I want to make the difference because when I make the difference, I'm the best. And that is not arrogance; that is confidence for me.

Your talent has made you extremely wealthy. Do you know how rich you—I always say money is not important. You agree with me or no? I think it can be important. No, no. Yes or no? Well, here I—no, no. I just want to—yes or no. Then you explain what's the question. Money is not important. Money is important. I'll tell you why. No, not having a lot of money. Wait, wait. A lot of money is important. I think removing—no, no. I think I would say that removing the worry about not having money is important; in other words, the stress that many people feel from not having enough money just to get by, I think that is a terrible stress. So having enough money where you have security and comfort in your life, I don't think you need to have gazillions. I think when it comes to money, I always—that that was a joke that I was saying because when I say money is not important, people would always say, "No, no, money is not important." Then I would say, "A lot of money is important," because me and me always when we do things, a lot of money is important. So it was more not to have the money; it was more a trigger thing, a challenge because obviously you have a successful company; you don't want to sell it low; you want to sell it maximum as possible, but not maybe not to survive or to have it just for the challenge because you create something and then you get a big jackpot by selling it high. And I agree with you, money creates problems, even in families; money brings stress; the more you have, the more stress, and where is the stop? You could live a good life with normal money, but what is normal money now? I've been on both sides; I've been without money; grew up with a family where my father made—in EUR, in pounds, I don't know how much it is—and still we had a good—at that—1000 EUR over what period? Monthly. Monthly. 1000. Then you pay bills, and I don't know how much is left, and we have to share it—not share it—it was his; he gave me whenever I needed, and but I had a good life; I had it good at that moment. So were you happy? Where is the stop? Were you happy then? But what is happiness? Well, you tell me; it's moments. I'm happy now; in 10 minutes I could be unhappy. So it's moments. Money makes it easier; makes your life easier, but I don't think it gives you happiness because for me, happiness is moments. You're happy with one situation; now my dream was to come to Barcelona; after one year it was my nightmare. Yeah, so it's moments. But I agree with you; I think when it comes to having a lot of money, it's an ego thing because your life would not change, let's say, the Saudi situation now. A player that made a lot of money goes there to make even crazy more money; does it change your life? Because I will tell you, you will die before you waste your money you already earned than the money you get in Saudi. So it will not make a difference.

You must have had a big offer to go to Saudi. I had an offer also from China; I had an offer also from Saudi, but the situation is, what do you want? What is your objective? I said before we started, like certain players need to finish his career in a big stage because that is like the high end of your career because you have to be remembered for your talent, not for what you earned. Because if you're remembered in the opposite way, what we are training every day for, what we are being recognized for is our talent, and that's what you want to be remembered for. So I think certain players that reach a certain level, they have to stop in a certain stage, and that's the big stage; you cannot go in a lower stage and finish your career in a different way. But some players needed the situation where you can earn a lot of money because they didn't earn enough. How much have you turned down to play in Saudi? I mean, in Saudi, no. I had a bigger offer in China; I had a 100 million offer in China, but I—and I went to America because I got injured, and the situation changed. But I turned it down before I went there because it's not what I wanted, and I would, instead of getting a lot of money straight, I would challenge myself to arrive there by different ways of coming to there, but the challenge to get it, not because I needed or because I wanted. Would you have any moral problem in playing in Saudi Arabia? No, no. What would—no, absolutely not. I mean, you have the golf situation now; they came together and they made it one. So I'm just sorry for the players that didn't go before because they didn't get the money that the players got it. So no, the football—listen, wherever you play football, it's football; football connects people, like it's a dream we share, both of us. You were a fan; you were not a professional; you're an Arsenal fan, and I feel sorry for you a little bit, but as a professional football player, as long as you play football, and Saudi is growing, MLS is growing; I mean, China had a peak, and then I don't know the situation changed there, but a moral thing, no, no. We are still—I mean, we do things for ourselves and our family. Who would judge you in five, 10 years when you have a healthy, wealthy, healthy life and have a good life? Because I don't think nothing is for free; you don't work for free; I don't work for free; I don't need money, but I'm very expensive; that's the difference.

If you were to fall over dead tomorrow, how much would you be worth? I mean, I have—I don't—we have to talk valuta now because we have crones, we have dollars, we have—give me any currency you like. US dollars. Here lies Zlatan; he was worth—I don't know; I don't know, probably half a billion. Yeah, half a billion US dollars. Yeah, but it's not important for me because I don't care about it because if I die tomorrow, what—what—understand? No, no, I understand you, but I'm thinking next step; it's not important. My point—did the kid in Malmö, on those rough streets, could you ever have imagined—no, ever—that one day you'd be worth half a billion dollars? No, no. And what does it feel like? It didn't change me because I'm still who I am, and I will not probably see those in front of me, like Mayweather; he has everything in front of him; I have everything mine in digital numbers. So it makes it easier for you, but like I said, it's not important for me because it doesn't trigger me. I still get angry; I still get aggressive even if I'm in that situation. So I need to feel alive; I need to do different things.

You talked earlier about having this dream of playing for Barcelona, and it did turn out to be a nightmare, and probably the main reason for that was the breakdown in your relationship with the manager, Pep Guardiola, who right now many would say is the best coach in the world. You had a very different experience with him. You called him a coward with no balls. You said, "When you buy me, you're buying a Ferrari. If you drive a Ferrari, you put premium petrol in the tank; you hit the motorway, and you step on the gas. Guardiola filled up with diesel and took a spin in the countryside. He should have bought a Fiat." I think Guardiola is an amazing coach. When I was there, the coaching was different compared to what I had before; he's totally on a different level; that's why he's successful because if you see on his career, if you take the last 10 to 15 years, the guy never came third place; he's always first or second. So the coach is amazing, but I had a different situation with him because I had the coach, and I get to meet the person, and we—it became a problem, a problem I was not aware of because I solve my problems; I look in the eyes; doesn't mean I have to like you or dislike you; we will solve it, and it takes one second to solve it; we go straight and we solve it. But solve a problem; if the problem is between two persons, it takes two to solve it, and especially when the other side doesn't know. When I remember when I was there, I was like—because before I came to Barcelona, always media have their input and saying they would go like, "You don't fit in here; you don't fit in the culture; it's different, different" because who I was. And my mistake was there; I tried to fit in instead of being who I am because I think it's important, like I begin the interview, being who you are is being perfect. But there I tried to be somebody I was not, and I said to him, "Listen, if I have two big nos for you, you tell me if I walk strange, you tell me if I'm not good enough, you tell me if you don't like whatever I do, you tell me; I resolve the problem; I leave; I'm not here to disturb; I'm not here to create; I'm just here to fulfill my dream." And I didn't hear nothing about it. The thing was, the first six months was okay; everything was good. No, but the strange thing, the first meeting I had with him was like—remember, players here don't come with Ferrari, Porsche—and then it felt like, why he's already judging you? But why you call me every day to bring me here, and then you want to send this message to me? Don't worry; I will not bring my car, and I didn't bring it; didn't bring it for six, seven, eight months. And then I started to—the directors because I would perform bad, and the people above him would complain, but they said, "We cannot engage if you don't open the door." So I would have to go to him and say, "Listen, what's going on?" So I create a situation so the people above him could interfere because they could not interfere if there was nothing. And I went to him, "Listen, can I talk, a friendly talk, like simple?" Even I wrote it in the book; I said to him, "Listen, I'm not doing good; I think with the situation with Messi, putting him, I need more space; you brought me in, so I need my space to do my thing because the way you want me to play now is not—I'm not good enough; then better you put the other players." So I was direct and open, and we spoke, normal, normal conversation because I never had a problem with a coach in a professional way. So the case with him was the first time I had—I had not discussions because we didn't even come there like a problem without knowing the problem. And he said in the end—which was cool—"Don't worry; I take care of this." I was like, "Okay, cool; everything is done." Next game, I'm—no, I'm on the bench. Said, "Okay, no problem." And I'm not the type that would go to the coach, "Why am I not play? Why am I not playing? You should play me," cuz remember, I come from hard work; you get what you work for. So for me, working hard, I would get, and not I need to play; I want to play cuz it's not how I get my proof of playing because I prefer you hate me but I play, then I know why I play because I'm good. Second game, bench; third game, bench. Said, "Okay." And now I'm getting pumped up because obviously I need to do more to show myself, but I noticed it was not about me performing anymore; it was—I think, my opinion—he felt offended for me saying to him I needed more space and the way I wanted to play. He punished, which is okay, yeah, which is okay; he's the coach; bad results, he leaves; player stays, and I respect that, but be open to me; be direct to me so we understand each other. Fourth game, bench. And then I started to make noise because it's not okay for me anymore; now I'm on the bench, and I have on—I'm on the bench because of a situation I created, not by my own—how do you say—by my own choice because of the people above him because for them I was a big investment. And the fourth game, I bring my Ferrari, and I bring the end of Ferrari, and I knew it would create another situation. So I parked the car in front of his office. So you with me, I with you; that was my motto.

You parked it in front of his office? In front of his office. I said, "This is—you want to play with fire; I'll bring you fire, but I will burn you." But obviously he's the coach because what punishes most the players, player, if he doesn't play because obviously you want to play, but the boss is the coach. But in that moment, I understood this will not be okay because there is something—how did he react to you parking your Ferrari outside? He would not say nothing to me because he would avoid me, but then they came—the strange thing is, I would go in the breakfast; we have a breakfast area where both of us would come. I go in; he would go up and go out of the room. On the field, he would never connect with me like this because you can connect by passing each other; then you start to talk without looking for it because I can pass you on the street; "Oh, what's up, Pep? Everything okay?" You know, you understand. So we would go against each other; he would take a whole round and go around me. And then I noticed something was more than just the player because it was too strange. Is that why you used the phrase coward with no balls? Yeah, because he would not confront his whatever problem he had, and he would use his right-hand guy to resolve his problem, and probably he would say, "Now I don't talk about it," and is him still have it in the head; him still talking about it when this will come out, but you give me the question and I answer your question. So he need not me still think about it; it's me only answering it. It came to a head; there's a dressing room incident after Barca lost to Inter, and it's alleged that you threw a training kit box across the room. Guardiola? Is that true? Versus him? Yeah. Did you hit him? No. He didn't hit—how did he—how did he react? It was a message. No, he stepped out of the lockeroom; he would not confront me; he will not confront me like I see him because I follow football; I see him in the press conferences now and that saying his thing, "This didn't happen here." So maybe become bigger man now. Spoken to him since he left? No, no. We met—we met when I was in United; he was obviously in City. So you pass the players, but I would not see him there, and this is not me looking for him or something because for me is the—because what happened happened; you cannot go back and change; you grow from that; you become different from that; you get experience from that. But what I know, his closest friend would stay out in the hall and wait for me to pass, and when I pass, he would come out. And the funny thing is, if I would see him, nothing would happen because for me, I'm a man; I take it as a man; if I have a problem, I resolve it. If he's watching this interview, what would you say? He would say, "I still think about it; still, I am crying." No. I think he's an amazing coach; don't get me wrong; I think he's an amazing coach; what he's doing, he changed the game 100%; he's being very successful. As a man, as a man, I see him do some press conferences; I see him; he has been stepping up, so he's not—he's not the one I know, I mean that I met. So I'm happy for him; I mean, remember we share the same dream; we work—I was a professional player; he was a professional player. So I don't want any harm for him; dislike or like, still we—we—we share the same dream. You cannot hate a person because of the situation like that. He thinks about him; I think about me. So like I said, he's a coach; I'm a player; so I think about me; he thinks about him; he has his responsibility; I mine. The difference is, I resolve my problem if I have a problem. So if he would say to me, "Listen, your nose is too big; listen, it's the last time we meet; you're not happy," I go; I resolve it. But I didn't know—that's my—still until today, I don't know what the problem was. You think you should have the courage to tell you—no, he shouldn't; he should run away.

One coach you loved was Jose Mourinho, and you had great success with him. What was it about Jose? You said, "I think that Jose, when he comes in a room, the lights go on, whereas Guardiola pulls the curtains back." First time I met Jose—I mean, first time Jose presented himself was when he won the Champions League with Porto, and then he came to England and he made a lot of noise. But you walk like you talk. No, he did everything he said he would do, and for me that triggers me because that is not arrogance for me; that is not—you think you're something—that for me is confidence. He really believes in it, and he's outspoken, and I'm—and I'm the same; I believe in certain things and I will say it, and I will do everything to reach my objectives. And I met him first time in Inter, and it was all—it was all different because I came from Capello, and Capello was old school but very hard mentality; he smashed me every day; he brought me down, then he pulled me up; he brought me down; he pulled me up. So he created my mentality on the field because he never made me feel satisfied, and he put me in front of the goal and he said, "I need this from you," boom. And we were shooting, shooting, and some trainings I try to hide myself, so I would hide myself among Cannavaro, Patrick Vieira, and all these big players because I was the young guy, like just to go home, and he would scream my name, "Ibra!" That was when my nickname came out. So he would scream, and I was like—and I would go back to the field, and we would train extra for one hour, shooting, shooting. But that was fun, but it was hard for me because I did it every day. So that was old-school mentality and the way of working. Then I met Mourinho, which was hardcore mentality but new, new thing; like every training we would do something new; we would never repeat an exercise twice. So he would divide the fields in four areas, so we would go from every area; so everything was new, and he would sit in front of the team and he would say, direct in our face, "Listen, you will all get a chance; if you would get a second chance, no." So he was direct to everybody in that, but the—the thing with Mourinho is, he makes you feel so strong that you go out and you fight for him and you do whatever it takes to win. So he's like a teacher, which—I think his background is also a teacher—so he would motivate you on a high level that you would do anything to go out and as a man—no, he's cool; he's direct; he's direct, and he's a winner; he's a winner, and he says what he thinks, but he's very well-informed before he goes into something; he would know about me more than I would know about me before we start to talk, just like you said before; you know more about me than I know about me. So as a man—no, no; he's cool.

You scored over 500 goals, you played over 100 times for your country, and you're Sweden's top scorer. What's your favorite goal? If I could relive a moment, would it be the bicycle kick against England? Yes, because it was Eng—I tell you why, because of many reasons, because the

Said you were stopped in the street by paparazzi and asked if Cristiano Ronaldo's bicycle kick goal was the best you've seen. You said yes. Do you still think that? I was being sarcastic. Oh, you were? Yes, you meant "not many understood," but I'm not there to explain that. If you cannot read my mind, it's not my fault. So you think yours was better? 100%! 100%! I said in an interview later you should try it from 40 meters; it's a big difference, even if his was beautiful. But this was from 40 meters. Is it... is it...? I actually asked him the same question: when you score a goal like that, is it better than sex? In my game, that game was crazy because that's what I wanted. That's not the answer. Yeah, but you have to see the whole package—the goal. No, sex is better. Come on, my friend, sex is better. We don't even go there. Sex is ten times better—not one time better, 100%! Is this in case Helena is watching this? Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! Sex is better. Whoever thinks different has a problem with his sex life; he should get help.

But uh, would I ever score a 40-yard bicycle kick? So, no, you get a lot of adrenaline. So, after the goal, I saw Welbeck, I think he was the striker, and I took off my shirt and said, "Enjoy, because something like this he will never see again." He was watching me. So you see, even in that moment, I get anger out instead of just enjoying it. So I throw it out and I look at him. Actually, I was rude, but I don't know why I was rude to him. I needed to find an outlet. So I said, "Enjoy, because you will never enjoy this again," but he hasn't done anything to me. But that's me—looking for... it's your natural fight, so it's not personal against him. So that's me, and he was watching me; he didn't understand anything because nothing happened but the game—what the goal is. Why the goal is most beautiful is because of England. Before I came to England, they talked bad because if you haven't played in the Premier League, you're not good enough. That's the mentality here, which I respect, because they want to see you challenge your game here. And then during the game, they were calling me "the diva," they were calling me a "fake Carol"—the fans were doing that, yeah, the fans. So it was going on, and before that, the media was writing, "I never score against English teams in the Champions League; I always fail against the English team." So everything—this was going around my head—so that's why I say it's a whole package. I score four goals, and I don't know, I think F. Baston or I have the record against England. And this was a whole package because of all the... I got that. That is the most beautiful goal, and it's a goal England will always remember for the rest of their lives. That's true. So that's why it feels better.

I personally think you've scored a better goal. Okay, and I'm going to tell you, I had many goals that are crazy. I'm going to tell you the one I think is your greatest goal; see what you think. This was for Ajax against NAC Breda, yeah, where you basically terrorized their entire team—their whole team. You go through the whole team, and then you score. That, to me, as a... because the bicycle kick is a brilliantly executed goal, no question, but the way you tormented that team for that goal was really extraordinary. Yeah, that was... that was... was nasty. Because often the beautiful goals, the goals you will remember, are the goals you cannot repeat. That is often... I mean, a bicycle kick from 40 meters, maybe you can repeat; maybe you can repeat the dribble because I saw Messi, I saw Maradona—half-field doing against England, doing these crazy goals—and uh, it was a crazy goal. But this is instinct; these things happen at the moment. This is nothing you plan; this is nothing you... you try to do. What's the best goal you've seen scored by somebody else, the one you wish you'd scored? I think my goals—not for my ego—my goals are crazy goals, crazy because I'm 197 centimeters and 97 kilos, so it's not normal to score these goals if you have this size. But a goal I would like to score—I mean, I like the Zidane goal in the final when he... with the left foot—because it's difficult to repeat. And those goals that you cannot repeat are the goals you will remember most. But I have a top ten; I have maybe five goals. Who is the... who is the best player you've ever seen? For me, the best player is the one that changed the game, the one that you will go out as a young fan and you will do what he does. For me, Ronaldo—phenomenal. When he came out, he was Brazilian; he was different. Because I remember I was a young, young boy, and um, when I saw his games—and on that time, we didn't have digital platforms; we had only YouTube—so we could see on YouTube these tricks, these dribbles, these goals. So I remember all of us, we were on YouTube—and YouTube, you didn't even have it on your phone; you had it on a computer—so in the... we were in school; we were going in the... how do you say... the room full of computers, and we would go there and watch YouTube and study the tricks, study the dribbles, and uh, and we would go out and try these things. And for me, he changed it; he was football; he was not playing; he was football because everybody wanted to be him. Today I see a lot of players that score a lot of goals; they do amazing things, but they don't change the game like he did. Because I don't think they go out and they do things like the players do today. The young generation don't go out and try to do that. When Ronaldo came, they went there, and they tried to do whatever he did, so what was totally different. I mean, I would say that he was absolutely sensational, but obviously had a very short career compared to, say, the other Ronaldo, Lionel Messi, yourself, in fact. The phenomenon has said about you that he really respects you for the longevity of your career, and I think there is a special thing about you, Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo—the ones who've had these long, long careers. That is an extraordinary achievement, isn't it, when so many other players... injuries... how do you say... continuity? Yeah, that shows to me... it shows to me a steely discipline about what you... what you do, and a bit of luck. You've got to be lucky; you don't get bad injuries, but also a discipline to do that, and a hunger that you want to keep doing it. It's a big discipline, why? Because you can have players that had an amazing year and then fall out. You can have players that won the World Cup, then you don't see them anymore or you don't remember them. You can have players that won the Champions League, and you don't remember them. I didn't win the Champions League, but they will remember me; I'm not worried. But in the long term, you have players that played 15, 20, 20 years and they kept that high level. But then we talk different. How long did you last? Like, let's say, is a different... different... different situation. We talk about when we talk about the proper player, the individual player. Obviously, we have different lifestyles; we have different professions; we have different mentalities. For me, I stopped now three months ago. I came to 41, and I still played on top. I went to visit America; I came back. Normally, you go to America, you don't come back, but I went there; I came back, and I proved—age is just an age; you can still play it depending on how you take care of yourself and how you approach things. Obviously, you need to be intelligent because the player I was when I was 25, I'm not the same player at 35. So if you're intelligent and you can manage that situation to change your game, because obviously you have to change your game. I'm not the same type of player when I was 20, 25, 30. And you go up; you have to play different. In the list of all-time great footballers, where do you put yourself? I mean, now I have to speak as a fan because what are we judged after? What we win collectively, what we win individually. I'm talking about individual quality as players—just the skill without winning anything. I think I'm the best, without joking. I'm the most complete player that ever existed—skills and all this. If we talk about... I didn't win the Golden Ball, no; I didn't win... I didn't win the Champions League, no. If those things matter, no, I'm probably not on that list. I had the honor and luck to win 34 trophies—the collective trophies, some individual—because the collective comes... the individual comes with the collective. So if the collective does good, the individual will do good. So, but when we talk pure only the player, the abilities—no, I think 100%, not joking. See, I... I love that about you. I would love every striker that's ever played for Arsenal to have that mentality. Yeah, they had their chance. Yeah, that you have to discuss with Van Gaal. I'm going to come to that; I'm coming. Okay. Okay, let me ask you first of all... no, but I think it's not about being arrogant, and that I think self-belief surely is confidence, backing yourself, but also backing it up. By... I believe it. Listen, I mean, you love Muhammad Ali, right? Wait, I will do another example. When I say "I am God," you think I'm joking or not? You tell me. I'm not joking. When I come on the field, I feel like that. You feel like God? I feel like God when I'm on the field—omnipotent. I feel untouchable, and I feel I will smash everyone that comes in my way. That is a mental part. Let's say boxing. Tyson Fury is the champion. If you ask me if I could smash him, I would say yes, I would... I would. And in my head, yes. But when I come in the ring, he would knock me out after two seconds. But the mentality is, "Yes, I can," yes. But in the ring, he would... he would eat me alive without doubts. But my mentality is, "I can." Muhammad Ali said—who, I know, he's one of your heroes—he said, "If you talk the talk, you've got to walk the walk." Yeah, 100%! And he did that. You did that. I mean, for all the trash-talking and the boasting and everything, the truth is you delivered on the pitch. If you hadn't done that, then you're a clown. I agree; you're a clown. You don't do that; you have to back up what you say. Then it's better to be silent and not saying anything. But I'm that type of guy. I believe it; I have... I have a vision, and I will arrive there, and I'm 100% I will because I'm a winner.

What do you make of what's happening in Manchester United? They were the dominant team in the Premier League for so many years under Sir Alex Ferguson; they've not been able to replicate that, and right now they're really struggling. What do you put it down to? I remember when I came to United, and uh, whoever I met there, everybody was talking about how Fergie would do it—Ferguson, this would not happen with Ferguson, this... Ferguson would not do that—and I was like, "Listen, I don't care what happened before; I'm here to do my own story, my own present time, and be remembered for what I did now, not for what he did." Something I respect—that he brought the club wherever he brought it; the club is because of what he did, but time goes on, like... the next generation and that... and then when I came, we won three trophies the first year. And uh, but I don't know if it's the English system or not because above the coach, there was a gap from the coach and the... there was no really football people between there. So what I was used to, we had football people between there that would come and smash us when it was bad, not giving a lot of credit when we win because if they pay you a lot of money, you play in a big club; it's normal to win. But I think now in United, I don't know, there's some kind of... how do you say... demonstrations about the owners to sell it and that. But just a reminder—the owners are investing; it's not like they're not investing because they brought in many players for high amounts of money. So I think it's a little bit wrong saying that they're not doing what the fans expect them to do. Then I don't know what the real reason is behind everything. Are the players underperforming? I think with the new coach... the new coach came from where he was... I was in Ajax also. Ajax is a talented club; they have the best talents in the club; they don't have big stars. What is the experience of this coach? Young talents; he comes to United. United is different mentality, different players. So the players there are supposed to be big stars. So I think with his experience being there, I don't know if it talks for him or not because he... he... I think he's in a different situation, and then above him, there is a gap where he doesn't get the help to manage the team. Listen, this is what I read in the paper, so it's not... I have all the situation that... that is happening, but I can just imagine him coming from Ajax to United; it's a big difference because I've been in both clubs. You manage talents—upgrowing is a different kind of approach because there you have a different kind of discipline. You come to United; you do the same thing; I don't know; I don't believe and I don't think it's the same treatment you give. I mean, Cristiano Ronaldo, when he gave the interview to me when he left United, he said that he felt he didn't have the respect of Erik ten Hag. You see, with Jadon Sancho now, a similar situation—ten Hag criticizing him in public and so on. Maybe that is an illustration of his... of his problems in managing big talent. But I don't... I don't say it's the coach's fault because experience you cannot buy; you just have to get time to get the experience. But it's two different situations—being in Ajax, being in United. Then if it's his fault, I don't think so because I think everybody has a responsibility in the whole situation. We are a piece of the puzzle from the big puzzle, so everybody has a responsibility to do and to... to fulfill the... the... the demands. United has to win; they... they have to win every title they play for. Now they're being dominated by the neighbors, and uh, and it's a totally different situation there, and uh, you need to find the right path again and to... to push for that. Now it's... I think it's... you need a plan; you need a project to follow. And it feels like you follow a project plan, and then it goes wild in a moment because of the results. Either you believe in it or you don't believe in it. So, but with the thing... situation of the coach, I think he's living two different situations now. Then obviously, what happened with Sancho and and Cristiano, I don't know because... is he... do you think he's out of his depth a bit, ten Hag? I think he needs more time to get the experience how to handle a team. But you don't really get time at a club like that. No, obviously not because we need to win; that's the reality. You come to Milan; I cannot give you time to... to develop... to... to perform; you need to perform straight because, like I said, survival mode—it's you or another one because United is in a situation: you don't do good enough; the next day there is another one, and the result speaks for itself. So that's why that is tricky. But how much time do you give a coach? I don't know; it depends on the owners, what they want. But if you listen to the fans, you don't have a lot of time because they want to win—absolutely—and I understand them because they're used to win, and they want to still win. So, so I think it's a lot of things; the small details often make the difference; it's not the... the... the whole... the big picture you see because when things are good, there were... there are still errors and problems, but you don't see it because we are winning.

Did you feel when you were at United... one of the things Cristiano suggested to me was the younger players didn't really show him the respect he was expecting—that when he was a young player at United, when he was 18, he hung on every word of Keane and Neville and Scholes and all these guys—that because players now get paid so much more money that they don't have the same respect for the older players they used to. Did you find that? But respect is nothing you ask for; respect is something you take. So it depends on you. I have to make sure you respect me; it's nothing you ask for. You don't ask the young guys for respect; you take the respect, and you put them in the place... then the situation that they earn more money—yes, they earn much more money for doing so so little compared to before. Before, you needed to do much more to come to sign a piece of contract and to get what you deserve under the circumstances of that situation. Now you see a lot of the new generation; they fly very fast without even walking. So walking is performing for me, so it's up to him to make sure they respect you. If it was me, and he doesn't respect me, that young player is the last thing he would have in his life because I would make sure he respects me, and he would know it for the rest of his life. So it's up to him to make sure they respect him. One of your great friends is Novak Djokovic, yeah, and he's... I mean, he's an extraordinary, dedicated, supreme athlete, a champion. What do you make of him as a sportsman—never mind as a tennis player? I think he... I think he's an amazing... amazing example for what he's doing. We have different philosophies, and uh, he has all these things he... he does to... to perform, and it... and for... for him doing that, he's doing an individual sport; I was doing a collective sport. I think he's a vegan; he does these things, getting energy from different kinds of things. I'm not 100% in it; I'm opposite. I mean, I don't do that; I am more... those things don't change me; I change my own game. You tell me, "Good luck." I don't need luck to perform; I decide when to perform good. I am in control to do good or bad; that is what I believe. I don't need to knock on wood three times to go out and it brings me luck. I decided. Who are the sporting champions in history that you most relate to? I mean, Muhammad Ali, for me, was... because my father had these old tapes—black and white—the big cassettes... how do you call it? Tapes? VHS? Yeah, and he was a big fan of boxing because his brother was a boxer, and I was watching all these boxing fights and uh, and movies, but the movies were Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, so my whole world was like doing all these crazy movements, but at the same time I was playing football, so I tried to bring it in... in my game. For me, Muhammad Ali was the greatest sportsman ever because... because, as I feel today, the sportsman tries to be as perfect as possible; he wants to have the perfect image; he wants not to say wrong in an interview; he's afraid to say certain things; um, he's afraid to... to cross the red light on the street; uh, so it's like afraid that somebody would judge him in a wrong way. Muhammad Ali was not that; Muhammad Ali was himself, and he was himself in the ring, outside the ring, and I think it's important because if you create an image of yourself that is not you... I mean, let's talk about charity. We do charity things, but you do it to have an image, or you do it because you really want to do it. I do a lot of things, but I don't want to be seen because I do it from my heart because I really want to do it. But I see other ones do it, and then they go in the media: "I donate 1 million to a hospital; I open a school for children; I did this." But if you do those things, you don't have to be seen because a third person has to say to you, "Oh, what a lovely guy you are; you're such an amazing guy." No, I don't need that; I do it because I want to do it, not to get an image. That I think today in this sport world, they're looking... they're focusing too much on their image instead of being who you are. People have to accept you for who you are, and that is important. When you see the top strikers of today—Erling Haaland, yeah, Kylian Mbappé—what do you think of those guys? I think they're both amazing. I think Haaland is very intelligent in the way he's playing; he doesn't touch the ball more than he needs to. I see he has this killer instinct; even if he has a hat-trick, he still wants to score the fourth goal, fifth goal, and I think he's in the perfect environment, and uh, is there more to do for him? I don't know what is more for him to do. If you say to him to get better, what is that? From three goals to six goals, from six to n? So is he maximum out of what he is? Because what you expect from him is goals, so if you don't get goals, you will say he didn't have a good day. Mbappé is more of a complete player; he can do more things than Haaland; he can do the unexpected; he will do things that you will react, "Wow!" He reminds me of Ronaldo, the phenomenal, the Brazilian, and he would do things that other ones cannot do. Can he get better? Yes, he can get much better, much, much better. So he just needs to focus on football; that's the only thing he needs to do. You said about yourself, "I can't help but laugh at how perfect I am." Yeah, you don't see it. [Laughter] Is there any perfect... looking sharp. I went to buy... told me, "For you," you made... you cost me €3,000. You know what? It was worth it. You're looking sharp. Thank you. Thank you. But is there any imperfection? I mean, I had moments where... criticize yourself. What would you... what would you choose? I mean, for me, the confidence is bulletproof; I have strong confidence; I would not go and have complexes on myself and do and say, "I need to fix this." This... obviously I could do certain things, but I am who I am; I cannot change that. I was created by my parents, and I became... and I look the way I do. So for me, that is perfection because I cannot... I have a big nose; yeah, I have a big nose; I have a space between the blah blah blah, but that's who I am; I cannot change; I don't want to change because you should believe in who you are because you are perfect. Then if you like it, you don't like it—the second one, like it. But I'm not here to be... to be judged by other ones; I judge myself, and the way I judge myself, I have no complainings; I am perfect. So that's the way I think, and that's the way I do things, and that's the way I am. Then if I criticize myself—yes, I could do things better; I could speak English better; I could do my game better; it's that's how I criticize—but if I hear some third person say something—fu—he's not important for me; he has more problems than me, probably; that's why he's judging me. So we all have our own story, let's say, but I'm good, I'm good about myself; I'm not worried. There's only one thing you got wrong. Oh no, I'm telling you what it is. There's one thing you got wrong. So it's your birthday next week, right? We'll have... just before this show ends, and there's one big mistake you made in your... I know already what you will say. What am I going to say? Because I... I didn't go to Arsenal. Yes, you see... first of all, I predict the future. First of all, tell me why you didn't join Arsenal when you were 17. So when I was young, I had a lot of interest from a lot of clubs, and one of them was Arsenal. So I came to the office of Mr. Arsène Wenger, and it was big hype because I saw these players—Bergkamp, Henry, I saw Ljungberg, I saw Vieira, I saw all these players, and I was like, "This is... this is big" because these players I see on TV, even if I already played at a high level in Sweden, but this was big because this was like, "I am here now." Last week I was playing PlayStation with these guys. And I spoke with Wenger, and he has this French... he was tall; I didn't expect him to be so tall. I come in his office, and we speak, and yeah, and he was like, "What do you want?" He wanted to get to know me, to feel me because I think he is a type of person; he just doesn't buy the player; he wants to know what he's buying, I think. And yeah, and then in the end, he had an Arsenal shirt with number nine, and uh, he wanted me to come and do a trial for two weeks, and from all this... everything was good until... until he said, "You come and do a trial," and I was looking at him—obviously, he's V... I'm nobody in that moment—said, "Don't do trials," and he was like, "What do you mean?" I don't do trials. Either you want me or you don't want me, or else why am I here? Like that was my... but it was not to play a game; it was me... no, but you have to come and do a trial, and that... no, no, you don't understand; I don't do trials. And that was it; I didn't... I never went to Arsenal. Well, and then I... yeah, this story breaks my heart, right? Because you would have been fantastic at... you are exactly the kind of striker we need right now. I can tell you we would win a lot of trophies. I'm 100% true; we would have won even more trophies. But I also know... I can tell from your face it's a big regret of yours. Okay, you wish... if you had a good time again. So this is your birthday present. Okay, thank you. It is... Ibrahimovic. Wow. Nice. Number 11. It looks good; looks sharp. I think it's your size, and you know what? It's never too late; you can come out of retirement. Thank you. Slip it on. Looks good, right? Thank you. Thank you very much. It was a great interview; nice meeting you. A real pleasure, finally, to do it. You're everything I hoped you would be. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.