Sales Roleplay - B2B Fitness Business Offer With $1M/mo Trainer [LIVE]

All right, we are back with another high-ticket sales role play. We have something completely different; we have not done a role play on this type of offer before. And so what is that? We are going to be doing an offer that is for Fitness coaches. So, not individuals that want to do Fitness training and get into better shape, but specifically Fitness coaches—people that are already running a Fitness business but are struggling. They're struggling with their lead flow; they're struggling with sales; they're struggling with systems. Ultimately, the business is running them; they are not running the business.

And so Lee works for a company closing for them that can come in and help them out of that struggle. We then have Braden who's going to play the prospect for us. So, as I said, a business owner, a fitness coach who is struggling to get on top of the business and have the business building them the life of their dreams, rather than them feeling like they're sacrificing the life of their dreams in order to run the business. So hopefully that makes sense. We're going to crack into the discovery, which is ultimately the place where the sale is made or lost. That is in control of the closer. So 90% of whether the sale is made or lost that the Closer has control of is what happens and the questions you ask during the discovery. So that is what we're going to focus on. I'm going to show you the nuances; I'm going to show you how to master the discovery so that you can implement this into your Discovery and make more money and live the life of your dreams.

So whenever you're ready, Lee, crack in with the opening question.

So Braden, I'm curious, in your opinion, what would you say is the biggest challenge inside your Fitness business right now?

Lee: That's a really good question. I would say so over the last 12 months, right? So I've been doing this full-time for about three years, and so the biggest challenge over the last 12 months, well more the last eight months, has really been the conversion of my ads. I'm spending a decent amount in ads, and I just don't feel like I'm seeing a direct return on how much I'm spending. And so I don't know if it's the creatives, and I've been trying to figure that out. Say that's probably my biggest challenge there.

Makes total sense. Roughly how long have you been running the ads for?

Pause, pause, pause. I would summarize back to him what he said first—almost always you want to summarize it back. Number one, to check that you got it right; number two, because the prospect will often elaborate without you even needing to ask another question. So I would have said something like, "Okay, got it. You've been running this business, and you mentioned somewhere around about 8 to 12 months ago you notice that your ads are not converting. Is that accurate?"

Yes.

And then you've got that second confirmation that he is in pain; he has a problem, and you've understood what he said. Then you pause, and he may say, "Well, yeah, because 8 months ago blank happened." Now the prospect is the one coming to you with information without you even needing to ask more questions. And people do that every single time they answer a question and they see that you listened; they want to give you more information. The more you just grill people with questions, whilst that is your weapon of choice as a closer, sometimes prospects can feel like they're going to give you the bare minimum response that they can because they know you're just going to fire another question two seconds later. If it becomes conversational, and more part of that conversation is you listening and confirming, the prospect just wants to talk to you and tell you what's going on.

Does that make sense?

Makes total sense.

Beautiful. Okay, Braden, so you've been in the industry for the past three years, and you alluded to the fact there that in the past 8 to 12 months the biggest challenge right now is the conversion of your ads. Is that accurate?

Yeah.

Understood. What I'm curious about first—sorry, one more thing—be careful with the wording as well. It's slightly different to say, "The biggest challenge you're having is the conversion of your ads," slightly different if you'd have said, "The biggest challenge is your ads are not converting." Very subtle word change, but you're putting the mirror up to the prospect: your ads are not converting, as opposed to you have a challenge with your ad. It's much more subtle—the way that you said, "Oh, you've got a challenge of your ad," the prospect's like, "Yeah, I've got a challenge; my ad's like, it's not, it's not that big a deal." No, your ads are not converting. Okay, and then you would have to drill into the numbers: how many ads have you got going, how many views, how many leads, how many conversions, how much money. But I would start by saying, "So your ads are not converting on your..."

Okay. Yeah.

Okay, so Braden, your ads aren't converting. Is that accurate?

Yes.

Got it. In terms of a time frame, roughly how long have you been running the ads for?

Yeah, so I mentioned earlier, so we started the ad campaign about about 12 months ago, and it did really well the first four months, and then I would say the last eight months or so it's just been—I don't want to say a steady decline, right—but like it has slowly gone down.

Okay. So you've been running the ads for the past 12 months. For the first four months it did well, and then eight months after that it's been slowly going down. So what I'm wondering is how many leads are you getting right now from converting the ads? If we were to March—we're halfway through March—how many leads has the ads brought in so far this month?

So I would have to look at my numbers on that. Are you talking about like conversion, direct conversions? You're talking about the specific leads. Let's start with the specific leads that are being brought in from the ads this month.

Okay. So I brought in—on average it brings in about three a day—about 80, 80 so far this month.

Mhm.

Okay. What about February? How many leads did the ads bring in in February?

February was about 110.

February's like a super hot time for January and February, the fitness industry, as as you know, a lot of New Year's resolutions, etc.

Understood. And we just do one more month: January.

January was about 150.

Give or take. Understood. So 80 leads in March, 110 in February, and 150 in January. What I'm wondering is… pause, pause, pause… what is different about March though, Lee? You got to be specific; we're only—but 80 leads so far in March, given the fact that we're only halfway through the month, correct? So just make sure you specify. Okay, so 80 leads in two weeks in March, whatever the number was; I didn't, I didn't write it down. I think it was 110. 110 for the whole of February and 150 for January. Is that accurate?

Yes.

Just be very precise in your words. Okay, let's take a quick time out in the chat, guys. Overall, what do you think is going to be and is already starting to be the biggest challenge with this discovery, the way that Lee is running the discovery specifically? Is anybody picking up on what is going to go awry here in a minute?

Well done, Jordan. Yeah, you're going to run out of time; you're, you're going to run out of time. So you have to be quicker whilst still coming across as relaxed. Okay, so let's go back, and I'm just going to run through what you've done plus a couple of additional questions and show you how much quicker I would do it whilst also coming across relaxed. So we've done the opening question; the big challenge was conversions, and all I know thus far is that he's been in business three years; something happened 8 to 12 months ago. Okay, so I'm just going to start from there.

Okay, Braden, so you've been in business three years, and then 8 to 12 months ago uh you had a conversion issue. What happened 8 to 12 months ago?

Well, I'm not sure; that's what I'm trying to find out.

Was it in 8 to 12 months ago? Is that when you just started running ads? Or…

Yeah. So I joined a mentorship program that specifically taught how to run ads.

Okay. When was that?

12 months ago.

Okay, and then when did you start running ads?

So this all happened—this is new to my business, right?—so this all happened 12 months ago. So I got in a mentorship program, learned how to run ads, and then we pretty much started doing those about two weeks into the MIP program.

Yeah. Got it. And then what happened eight months ago?

It just—it went really well at the beginning, and for some reason, I, I don't know why, but 8 months ago it slowly has just kind of been declining; it hasn't been going up.

Okay. So when you say really well 12 months ago, how many sales were you making per—let's say—per week 12 months ago when it was going really well?

I was making about 10 grand a month when it was going really well.

Okay. So that's money. So 10 grand a month, and how many sales was that?

Yeah, so I charge roughly about—it was about 20 sales.

Okay. 20 sales—so $500 per sale.

Yeah.

Okay, got it. And how many leads were you getting on average a week? Are you talking about then or you talking about now?

Correct—12 months ago. Uh, about like 300, 325. I have to look at my numbers, but…

No worries. So 300 to 325 a week. You were selling at $500; you were making 20 sales.

Mhm.

That was 20 sales a month actually. So that was five sales a week.

Mhm.

And uh $2500 per week. Does that sound accurate?

That's correct.

Okay, beautiful. And then you've said it's been declining. So now let's look at right now: where are you at right now in terms of leads and sales? And I'll, I'll break down the numbers for you. So in the last seven days, how many leads did you get?

37.

Okay. And so you're at 37 leads now, whereas back 12 months ago you're at 75 leads per week. So you're at half—half of the leads.

Okay.

And how many sales have you made in the last seven days?

One.

Okay. So you've got half the leads, but you've got an 80% reduction in your number of sales for the same amount of leads. Is that accurate?

Yeah, the conversion hasn't been very good, Josh.

Okay. So you got half the leads, and you've got significantly worse leads. Is that accurate?

Yeah.

Okay. And that lead that you sold, how much did you sell the package for?

It was actually—okay, it was a, it was a $1500 paid in full.

Interesting. So given that your leads are significantly worse, and previously you were charging 500, how come this time it was 1500?

It was just a quality lead, and he just went for my higher ticket offer.

Yeah. Did you have that higher ticket offer 12 months ago?

Well, it was available, but just wasn't attracting, I guess, those type of leads. I mean, it was like—it wasn't very often that I was selling that… offer.

Yeah. Got it. All right, pause. Do you see how much I've gathered? Probably a little bit longer than you were going, but not much different, and I've got way more detail: before, after, numbers, clarity. Plus, you can probably see that Braden's feeling the pressure; he's like… he's, he's not missing a beat; like he's catching every single number. And I'm doing it quicker, but hopefully—and for everybody in the chat—tell me, does it feel like I'm salesy or pressuring or quote-unquote rushing, or does it just feel like I'm being effective and efficient? Put in the chat, guys; put in the chat. If anyone feels like, "Oh, Josh is just rushing through the sales call," does anybody feel like that?

Okay, cool. Yeah, effective, efficient, detached, but I'm not, I'm not screwing around. Okay, so that's the only change. What you're doing, Lee, is good; you're asking the right questions; you're very chill, but you will run out of time on your sales calls if you don't pick up the pace a bit.

It's funny to say that, 'cause I've noticed that in the last week because we've been focusing more on the data gathering and getting the granular details in terms of the figures and seven days and a month, and I've noticed that the calls are going on longer, but I have a question on that. Am I right in saying that I want to pick up the pace and control the frame where there—when we're gathering data, especially when it's like a lot to cover, right? But then when we get into more of the emotional stuff for the bill, then it—the pace completely shifts. Is that accurate?

There's no fixed rules in sales—in many things—but in general, yes. Yeah, I'm, I'm—I've got my clipboard; I'm getting all the information, and then I'm going to kind of take a metaphorical pause and go, "Hm, okay, so it seems like this and this are the problem." Is that accurate?

Yes.

And as I'm starting to diagnose the, the prescription, the uh conclusion, yes, I'm going to start to slow down.

Makes total sense.

Yep. All right, it's up to—to you. You can do—you can do everything I just did yourself if you want to go all the way back, or if you want to start from where I left off, you can start from where I left off. It's up to you. So whenever you're ready…

Yeah, let's, let's jump back in and speed up the discovery part.

Okay. So we're going to go back to the—just after the opening question where you just jumped in and we're gathering data for 12 months ago. Let's jump in there.

Beautiful. Cool. So Braden, um, you said you've been running the ads roughly for about 8 to 12 months. So 12 months ago, how much were you charging per sale back then?

So I have two different ticket offers: I have a $500 and I have a $1500. So yeah…

Got it. How many $1500s have you sold in the last 12 months? In the last… hang on… hang… yeah, that, that wouldn't be a very good question, because then we're going to have to get an accumulative total. What I'm trying to do—and the reason I know what I'm trying to do—is the opening question was to—to paraphrase—I was here in terms of my results, and now my results are down here. So I want to compare like for like, so in a given month, but 12 months ago what were your results?

Okay, got it. Now, in a given 30-day period, what are your results, as opposed to how many did you sell over the 12 months? What I want Braden to see is you were doing fine, and then now you're—opposed to cumulatively what's been decent over the last 12 months. That makes sense? Slight difference in the question makes the whole sense.

Okay. Okay. So you've got, you've got two offers: $500 and $1500. So 12 months ago, what were you selling? It's not great wording of the question… What… what do you mean? What… let me, let me… let me… let me… reword… So 12 months ago, out of those two offers, what were you selling the majority of the time?

Lower—the lower ticket offer. Just get specific numbers, Lee. Okay. So 12 months ago, in an average month, how many $500 packages did you sell? Okay? How many $1500 did you sell, as opposed to like, what, what were you selling? It's too vague; you, you'll get prospects wrapped up in their own confusion.

Yeah, 100%. Ask specific questions.

Okay. So Braden, 12 months ago, how many $500 packages were you selling across a month?

I can't give you an exact number, but I can tell you that it's about 75 to 80%; I'm selling that lower ticket offer.

Got it. So 12 months ago, how many sales did you make in a month if 75% of those are on the lower ticket of $500?

Well done, Lee. Yeah, so I had made uh about 17, 16, 17.

Okay. So 16 sales at $500, which would have meant then you've made roughly about four sales at the $1500, 12 months ago. Is, is that accurate? The clarifier you need to ask… I'm confused… Is the 16 sales 16 total sales, or was that 16 $500s, or was that 16 $1500s?

He says 16 total. You say, "Okay, cool." The one word that you're missing, which would fix a lot of this, Lee, is just by adding in the word "average" or "ballpark." He's, he's going to feel more comfortable to take a guess because you've stated it's a guess, whereas by saying "how many," he's like, "Oh, I don't know; it's kind of this, it's kind of that." He doesn't really want to answer because he feels like he's on the line. I'd say, "Okay, got it. So 12 months ago, ballpark the number for an average month when, when the ads were working for those first four months, how many sales total did you make?"

I made 12.

You made 12 total sales. Ballpark in the number: how many of those were the $1500 package?

Oh, two or three.

Okay, got it. So you had about eight, eight to nine $500s, and then you had like two or three $1500s. Is that correct?

Yes.

Beautiful. Done. Yeah, so just changing the phrasing—this is why scripts are so ineffective—because based on the context, I might need to add a couple of little words into the question to make it a different feeling question. Like on the script it may have said, "How many sales are you making currently?" Well, that's a very generic question, because how many are you making currently? If we're talking about this month, that's totally fine; you can ask it like that. If we're talking about 12 months ago and you say, "How many were you making 12 months ago?" Most prospects are going to go, "I don't know; it was 12 months ago, and I don't really know." But just by knowing how to calibrate, by being scriptless… okay, ballparking the number, or on average, what roughly was it? Oh, it was this… your—you're learning to, to collaborate with the prospect by calibrating how you're speaking. Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah, makes total sense.

Good, good. So Braden, 12 months ago, ballpark figure, on average, how many sales did you make across the month?

12 months ago, it was about—let me double check here, Lee—so it was about 19.

19 total sales.

Yeah.

And ballpark—out of those 19 total sales, how many did you sell at $500? Ballpark.

Yeah, so like I said, it was about 16.

Ballparked at the $500. Understood. Quick, quick little tidbit, guys. If you have to do some mental arithmetic, it's always easier to do mental arithmetic if you round the numbers up to a nice number, so 20 as opposed to 19 is a much easier number in general, although it, it has to be based on the math that you can do. I always prefer to round in the direction that gives the prospect more benefit of the doubt, meaning don't ever be the… that's rounding the number down, because it comes across very salesy. Like if someone said—uh, if, if Braden had said, "Oh, it was about 15 to 20," and you go, "Okay, 15," then, then the prospect's—well, you're trying to make the number as small as possible. You'd be better to go, "Okay, let's just go with 20." It comes across as, "I'm so confident that I'm going to sell you; I can, I can edge in your direction to your benefit, and I'll still sell you," whereas when you're trying to like cut corners to try and make the sale, you end up just shooting yourself in the foot. So in this case, when he said 19, 20, I'd say, "Okay, let's just go with 20," even though a lot of closers are in a mindset of scarcity and they're like, "If I, if I round it up by one, like what if the maths doesn't add up?" It's like, if the maths didn't add up because you rounded it up by one, then you probably didn't have a sale to make anyway. Make sense?

Yeah, that's a, that's a very good point.

Okay. Okay. Braden, so 16 sales of $500, if we, you know, rounded that off, give or take $10,000 in total revenue 12 months ago. I just want to clarify: do you have any recurring payment set up, current clients, or is it just new, new revenue coming through the business month to month? We're talking about at the moment; let's look at 12 months ago first, and then we'll clarify at the moment.

Okay. So you're saying, "Do I have any recurring customers from 12 months ago that are existing now?" Let me ask the question in a different way: 12 months ago, with your business model set up, was there any clients that joins and then they were either currently paying a monthly recurring, or they were going to move into a monthly recurring payment? Simplify the question.

Okay. So 12 months ago, you were either charging 500 or $1500. Was that a one-time payment?

Yes.

Okay. So to clarify, was there any additional monthly payment, or it was a once and done?

Okay. Got it. Exactly what you're saying, Lee, but just learning to practice the questions.

Yeah, yeah. So go ahead, Braden.

No, no, I was, I was waiting for you; I was like, "I'll go, my man."

So 12 months ago, were they one-off payments of $500, or were there any clients paying you a monthly recurring at that time?

Would say 80% of those were paid in fulls—the 16s, like the $500, the 16 of those…

So obviously, Lee, that's not the question you were asking, so you need to clarify that.

Yeah, got it. So just to clarify, you made 16 sales at $500, 12 months ago. So the question I'm asking is, at the moment in time 12 months ago, were there any other payments coming into the business outside of those 16 sales of $500?

So I had three that sold at that higher ticket price at the $1500. So I had a total of 19 sales.

Understood. And just to clarify, that's all the revenue that came into the business 12 months ago?

Correct.

I, I still don't—I still don't feel… You kind of got to ask the question that you were trying to ask, and I think it's a really useful question. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you were trying to say is: brand new revenue that came into the business on an average month, 12 months ago, was either a $500 sale or a $1500 sale that was new revenue, but when you make a sale, was there any additional month-to-month payment plan or ongoing support or, you know, a 12-month coaching thing that they add on to the initial… okay, you pay a, you pay $1500 to get started, but then you pay a 100 bucks a month. Is that what you're trying to ask, Lee?

So Braden said he's been in business for three years, but the ads were running for the past 8 to 12 months. So with the setup with a Fitness business, majority would have monthly recurring payments where they would be paying monthly after an upfront offer. So my question to Braden was, you know, "Is there any other clients…" Probably should have phrased it even before, to 12 months, right? "Is there anyone paying monthly payments outside of those upfronts?" Essentially is what I was trying to gather data on. So the… okay, so the best way to probably ask it is to clarify his pricing just as a general… Okay, so your pricing was 500 or $1500. Was that a one-time payment, and then someone doesn't have to pay anything else, or is that an initial payment and then they pay a month-to-month continuation, or how does your pricing work?

Yeah, I, I… answer… answer that, Braden; just role play with me for two questions.

Can you repeat it one more time, Josh?

Yeah, absolutely. So 12 months ago, your pricing—you either sold a $500 package or you sold a $1500. Is that correct?

Correct.

Okay. And that was an initial payment for someone to join the program. Was that the only payment that you would receive from a, a single client, or once they've joined, do they continue to pay a, a monthly fee to stay a part of the program, or how does it work?

Yeah, so the way it works is like I said, I have two different ticket offers: the $500 versus the $1500. The $500 is a group; the $1500 is more one-on-one.

Okay. Okay. And so with the $500 and the $1500, there's two different options available. Okay? You can either break that down into a payment plan; you can finance it; I do have a few finance partners that they can do like a credit option, and then—or they do a paid in full.

Okay. So just to clarify, I'm not talking about the initial payment, whether you can break it up or you have to pay it in full. What I'm talking about is, is there like an ongoing additional maintenance charge to, to stay in the group? In other words…

Oh, I got you. No, no, no, I got you.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just a little confused there.

No worries. So it's a one-time payment for a set amount of time; so I do a month plan versus a… plan. Exactly. Is there any opportunity for someone to continue month to month after that if they want to?

Okay. So then… beautiful. So then my question is, going back 12 months ago, you were making $10,000 a month. Yeah? How many clients—if just ballpark—were actually continuation clients that were still paying you 12 months ago, not brand new clients that you just got $500 or $1500. Does that make sense?

That makes sense.

Okay. I appreciate that clarification. Sure. So I would say I actually end up—I have a few clients that I've gotten—like not, not friends with, right—but like… yep, I would say I have at least about 10 that are still customers from 12 months ago that are—were just… a few of them are in the military; a few of them are just corporate, like 9-to-5, and they just need someone to be handling their Fitness and diet; they just… it are…

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So that's right now you've still got about 10 people from 12 months ago.

Yeah.

Going back 12 months ago though, how many people were in your client base that were longer-term recurring clients back then? Did you have 10 back then as well that were additional recurring clients?

You're talking about 12 months ago—previous from the 12 months ago before that. So let's see… confused…

No worries; it, it's maths; nobody likes maths. Uh, 12 months ago you made $10,000 in the business for, for that, for that month—an average month. What I'm trying to clarify is how much of that $10,000 came from you signed up a new client for $500 or $1500 versus how much of that $10,000 came from monthly payments from older clients that were still paying a monthly fee. Does that make sense?

That makes sense.

Okay. I appreciate that clarification. So… no worries. Based off what the numbers that I'm tracking right now, these are all new customers, right?

Oh, okay. Great.

And so the numbers that came in 12 months ago, I'm talking about new customers. Yeah? So what was—there any additional revenue, and we just haven't discussed it yet, or it was… 'cause there was no, no extra revenue from clients that were still continuing on?

There was some additional revenue.

Do you know roughly how much that was on top of the $10,000?

So I had about seven clients at the time…

Okay.

…that were re, reoccurring.

Yeah. Perfect. And what do they pay a month to reoccur?

Well, here's the thing, Josh, right? So it's like they were recurring clients, but it's not exactly, Mr… not exactly monthly recurring revenue because they just renew the plan, and so every three months, if they're at that lower tier package, they just opt in for another three months.

Got it. Okay. Let's just take a simple number then. Back 12 months ago, with the quality of leads that you were getting, if you were to say a ballpark percentage, how many clients, as a percentage, after their first three months paid for another three months? Just a rough percentage.

Under 20, but above 10.

Okay. So, so 80, 90% of people you got one pay—one payment for the three months, and then they didn't continue.

Yeah.

Okay. Good. It makes sense. All right, that, that's what we were all trying to, trying to get to. Is that right, Lee?

Yeah, yeah. Just to see if there's any monthly recurring to see how significant the lack of leads and new revenue is coming through the business, because if he was like, "I've got $5K in recurring revenue," less urgency in comparison to not having any monthly recurring set up. So yeah, that's basically what I was getting…

There. Yep. And just like Jordan said in the chat, guys, you know you're having a conversation with someone. If someone doesn't get it, that's totally fine; you just try and explain a different way. Uh, it's it's interesting what Lee said as the reason. Yes, I do want to know the maths; I want to know is there any uh extra revenue and where did it come from? But there's a more important reason that I wanted to know those details. Why is that, Lee? The sustainability of his business, so he doesn't have to always rely on new leads coming in from ads.

Yes, I would have defined it as the quality of the leads, because what you're selling him is the quantity of leads that he does or doesn't have. Increasing the quantity, increasing the quality of leads in terms of initial conversion rate. So for every 100 leads, do you convert 20 or do you convert 50? But also, for the leads that you do convert, what is the continuation percentage? So as far as you providing him a better solution, there's three things that you can fix: how many leads, the initial conversion of those leads, and the long-term lifetime value of those leads. The only way we can show him that we can improve that is to get clarity on his current numbers for all three of those things.

Make sense?

100%. Yeah. All right, keep going wherever you want to jump. Cool. So uh, Braden, 16 s, 20 sales total 12 months ago. How many leads came into the business 12 months ago to then convert 20 sales? So I mentioned this number earlier; I had about 300 that had come in, a little bit under, I think it was 270.

Okay, so roughly 270 leads came into the business 12 months ago, and we converted 20 of those leads. Okay, let's fast forward to now. In the past seven days, how many? I I would summarize that back to him because you're going to start digging on the pain. 20 out of 300, I don't know what the percentages, but you would calculate it and say, okay, so 90% of your leads didn't convert. Is that accurate?

Yes. Yeah, 94% of the leads that you—and if you really want to [ __ ] with him—so 94% of the leads that you are paying for was just money down the toilet. 94% is that accurate?

Yes. Wow. Okay. Right. So you see how being articulate and being crystal clear of all the things that you're gathering, that's where you start building the pain. It's not just the question you ask; it's the question, then the summary, then how do you do the summary, how do you connect the summary to the bigger picture? It's not, oh, you had a 94% con uh failed conversion rate; it's you had a 94% failed conversion rate, and you're paying for those leads. Like if I really wanted to, I could go, how does that make you feel? If I wanted to drop that question in there, because the way I'm summarizing the information is like you must feel something when I said that to you. You also don't know how much I'm paying for those leads exactly, which I would ask. Yeah, how how much were you spending a mon—and and look at how look at how specific the pain gets when I say this. So just role play with me a sec. Uh, Braden, yeah. So 12 months ago you got 300 leads; how much did you pay a month for leads?

Yeah, so I paid, huh, it was about I paid about two grand. 2,000 in ad spend.

Yeah. Okay, so 2,000. Let let's just uh calculate this so we can make sure that you're clear on—1,850, but yeah, about about two grand. Okay, so you did not convert 280 leads, 280 out of 300, as far as your ad spend is $1,850, um, and then and so that's 12 months ago, and you said it's got worse. Is that accurate?

Mhm. Well, let just yeah, or no? Yeah, well it's got worse. I mean, I'm spending more money, but the the amount of leads has gotten worse.

Yeah. Okay. We'll get bogged down in the maths if we try and change all the numbers, but I'm actually going to play it in your favor so you can see even if I give you the benefit of the doubt what this is costing you. $1,850 paying for leads that are not converting, times that by 12 months. 1,850 and it's worse than this, but just to give you an example, so you have spent at a bare minimum $22,200 on leads that just was money down the toilet. Does that make sense?

Yeah. 22,200. And and that's way lower than the number actually is because you're now spending more and you're converting less, but just to give a a bottom floor number of what you're spending, does that make sense?

Yeah. When you hear that number and you know that that was your money, how does that make you feel?

Uh, not good, you know.

Yeah. Not good. What is what is not good about flushing $22,200 down the drain in 12 months? What's the worst part about that?

I'm scared, Josh, of of what the toilet might get clogged. Just kidding. No, so I mean I came into this, I've been doing this for about two and a half years, and I came out of my full-time engineering job, and this is my dream; this is this is like is exactly what I wanted to do, and I was making money at first, and it was just going really well, and the money and ad spend I'm spending now I'm starting to dip into my savings, and it's if I don't want to go back to my 9-5 job, I mean—so so if I'm understanding you correctly, and and tell me if this is inaccurate, you're not just flushing $22,200 down the drain; you're flushing your dream down the drain.

Yeah. Okay. Right. So you see how by me just taking some random piece of information, I'm straight into selling him. So when when all of you are looking for like how do I get the data and follow the bouncy ball to then get to the pain to then get to the commitment, it's like it's all of these little nuances where the pain just comes out. It was me connecting the fact that okay, that's how much his his uh ad spend is; that's how bad the conversion rate is; let's put a price on it; it's been for 12 months; how does that make you feel? Okay, what's the worst part about that? And then just by me having a conversation, he told me the real reason we're on the phone: I quit my job for this; my dream was to do this, and my dream is being flushed down the toilet with every single $1,000 that I'm flushing down the drain every week. So let me ask you then, Braden, given that this was your dream to quit your engineering job and to run your own coaching—in fact, let me ask you a previous question—why was this your dream to quit your engineering job and do this?

Well, Josh, fitness changed my life. So I was, you know, overweight, and I was not exactly popular in high school and then college. I got into fitness; my fraternity brothers got me into it, and just I had a pretty drastic body transformation, and I just saw the way that others perceive me different; my confidence was different; I just moved—everything about my life was just better. And so I kind of started doing some meal plans and fitness plans with my friends and family and just went—I saw them have transformations, but then I went into my 9-5 career. Right, I was an engineer; like that's what I went to school for, um, but I just wasn't exactly fulfilled. And so that's what led me to eventually being a fitness coach.

Yeah. Okay. So you were working as an engineer, but you weren't fulfilled doing that, and having had the personal fulfillment of completely changing your life and changing people's perception of you and changing every part of your life for the better, you realize that you need to create a business or create a career around your experience, cuz that's going to be fulfilling you. Is that accurate?

Yeah. I mean, but it's also like to help people.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. From, you know, the fact that this fitness journey transformed your life, you now need to you feel like you have a a calling to go and help other people with that. Is that accurate?

Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So was there a a signature moment recently, knowing that you're flushing your dream down the toilet, but you're also flushing down the toilet the better lives of all the people that you should be helping that you're not helping that you could be helping because you haven't figured out how to run the lead flow and run the sales of your business; was there a turning point where your dream getting so far flushed down the toilet that you said, enough's enough, I need help?

I don't know if there was a singular point, okay, but I would say it's just been—well, I mean, if there was a singular point, it's been in the last, you know, four to six weeks where it's been—things been pretty tight, you know. So what what specifically happened over the last four to six weeks that having tried to figure this out on your own for 12 months, you got to a turning point where you realized, if you do, I need help. What what actually changed?

Well, I'll tell you this, Josh, so I focus a lot on my clients, right, and so I'm I'm always focusing on the work, and I guess I don't exactly pay attention to the numbers. And so when like the way you just reiterated it all the numbers back to me, I had done that about four or six weeks ago, and so I now noticed this kind of steady decline. Like I hadn't really previously—I mean, I was aware of it, but not as consciously aware of it as what reality was. And so now I'm just at a point—I've only made four grand this month, so—but I'm continuing with my same ad spend, and so I'm almost almost backwards.

Okay. So you mentioned you hadn't paid attention to this. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being this is the thing that you're most attentive to and that is has to take priority and be your number one focus, and zero being, you know, you can go another month and kind of brush it under the carpet or be ignorant to it, where is your level of attentiveness now that this is the thing you need to get solved right now, on a scale of 1 to 10?

Well, I mean, I need to get this area solved right, and so I'm just exploring a few different options and like trying to figure out what to do with it, how to solve it right, because you said the reason you're in this position is you hadn't paid attention to it; now you're paying attention to it. And if the reason you're in this position is the the difference between having not paid attention and now paying attention, what I need to know is, on a scale of 1 to 10, where is your attention towards this now? 10 being there is nothing more important than you fixing this; zero being it's not really a big deal; I'm not going back to my—I don't want to go back to my 9-5, so like this has my full attention; solving this problem has my full attention.

Okay. So where would you put that as a number on a scale of 1 to 10?

10.

Okay. Why why did you pick a 10?

Well, like I mentioned earlier, it's, you know, it's the consequence of it; I don't—I know now that it's not sustainable; the rate of decline—

What do you mean not sustainable? What what will happen if you don't fix this?

Well, I mean, I'm already dipping into my savings, and so if that continues to happen—

I mean, how much money have you dipped into in your savings?

About two grand.

How much more have you got left?

I mean, I don't want to be too specific, but I mean, I have like—I I need—

Sorry, I need you to be specific because—in fact, let me ask you, why do you think I need you to be specific?

I'm not—I'm not sure.

Okay. Would you like me to share it with you, the reason you're in this position? Correct me if I'm wrong, is you haven't paid attention to the unsustainability of your lack of success with managing your leads, spending money on the wrong leads, not knowing how to convert potentially some leads, and just simply not knowing and not having got solved the inbound revenue generation of your business. You're now at this point where you do need to pay it attention, but the big thing that stopped you is not having a high enough attention towards the one thing that is either going to make your life dream a reality or kill your life dream, and you're never going to—you're going to have to go about to being an engineer or, you know, drive Uber or whatever, and you're never going to help all of these people that you could be helping. The reason I need to know how much you have exactly in savings is because what do you think would happen if you said you've burnt through $2,000 and you have another $100,000 left? What do you think is going to happen in terms of what—in terms of the decision that you make in terms of changing the way that you're operating right now?

I'd probably be a little bit more relaxed about it.

100%. And how has that relaxation, or we could call it lack of paying attention, how's that gone for you?

Well, I mean, just—I've just been focusing on my clients, you know, I've just—

Well, well, how how much are you focusing on the clients that you're not serving? How many people are out there in the world that need your help?

I feel that I can help anyone.

So how much longer do you want to hold on to this rationalization that you're not helping all of those people because you're trying to help your existing clients as opposed to facing the reality that you should be focusing on not only how to serve your current clients but also how to get more clients and do that in a streamlined manner? Are you at the point where you want to face that reality or do you want more time to rationalize?

No, you're right. No, you're right.

Beautiful. So how much exactly have you got in savings?

About 11—11k.

Okay. And how much are you burning through every 30 days at the moment?

Well, I've—this is pretty much the first—okay, this—I mean, we're halfway through the the month, but like the last three weeks is the first time I've dipped into it.

Okay. Mhm. And so in the last three weeks you spent 2,000?

Yeah.

Okay. So you're spending about—playing it down a little bit—about $4,000 a month at this run rate?

Uh, yeah.

Okay. So you have 11—nine weeks basically, nine or 10 weeks until you've run out of savings. Yeah. Do you think that's enough level of severity for you, the timeline that you are no longer willing to spend another day giving this part of your business anything less than 100% attention, or do you feel, given that you've spent 12 months not paying it enough attention, do you feel that you need to get closer to the line maybe when you've got $3,000 left before you're actually going to get your act together?

No, no. Not that—that was very—not doing that.

Okay. Well, that was very certain. Why are you so certain about that?

Because you know I put this demand on my own clients to make a change in their life; I put a demand on my clients to lose weight, and I talk about discipline; I talk about all these things, you know. So the fact that I'm not living out those principles in my business, I I I can't allow that to happen because I know that energy is going to convert to my clients, and that's that's not going to happen.

Makes total sense. So knowing the demand that you need to make on yourself and and the principles that you need to leave uh you need to live by, what is the number one thing you need to do right now, today, that you haven't been doing the last 12 months that is going to allow you to solve the lead generation and sales of your business? What is the demand that you need to put on yourself?

Complete urgency to do what—to make a change. What change? What spe—what is the specific action that you're going to take?

I need to solve this problem; why these conversions aren't happening and why my close rate is down; I don't know what's going on, and I need to know.

Makes sense. And so what is what is the specific action that you can do to go from a place of not knowing what you don't know to actually being able to know what you need to know and be able to implement and execute it? That's why I'm on this call, right? I don't know.

Okay. Well, what I'm trying to lead you to, and I I don't want to lead you to anything, is is the specific action that you need to take to go on YouTube and try watch some videos and get more information, or is the specific action you need to take to hire a mentor, to join a program that has solved the problem that you have and helped thousands of other businesses solve the problem? What do you think is the one action that you need to take?

The latter. I I I need to—I I've been trying to solve this on my own, and I can't—or I'm not saying I can't, but I I I haven't, and at this rate of decline, it's not—not so I need to—I need someone to help me.

Yeah. Okay. Why are we the people that you want help from?

Well, you know, specifically, you know, I've been I've been tracking the owner for a long time, and actually I I read one of his books because my my mom had bought it, and you know, he just really advocates of, you know, really building a life your dreams, and I know that he's done exactly what I want to do; I know he's been successful as a fitness coach, you know. So you know, I know he's a family guy; he's got a daughter, and I want a family one day, and yeah, I just—I trust him, and I know he's done this.

What type of family do you think you're going to have if you don't live out the life principles that you know you demand of your clients?

I'm not going to have one.

Okay. I have one other question that I want you to really think deeply about. You are in a spot right now where you have limited funds because you haven't solved the problem of money. If you had already figured—probably if you'd have hired a mentor eight months ago when the leads started to go bad, we probably wouldn't be on this phone call, right? A problem that a lot of people run into is when funds are tight and the very thing they need to do to get out of that situation is to invest the limited resources they do have; they get into a place of scarcity, and they're like, oh [ __ ] I'm so tight; I can't do it, or I'm not willing to do it. That is a a very common mind virus that basically just is the final blow that kills people; it's like you've got limited resources; you're not willing to invest what you do have. Given that that is a very common thing that people run into, and you're in a similar position as far as the the resource situation, how are you going to overcome that when it comes to the moment at the end of this call where I tell you that we can fix this problem and there's an investment? How are you going to rationalize doing what you need to do?

Well, I mean, I'm definitely going to have to look at everything; at the end of the day, I don't exactly know what you guys offer; I don't know what the price is, you know. So I know for certain that I have to fix this issue, and so I'm committed there, you know, but I'm definitely going to have to see exactly how it's going to be solved and what the price is and if I can afford it—and—well, I'm not—I'm not saying for you to invest something with money that you don't have, but let's just imagine a scenario where I offer you the opportunity for us to fix this problem with you in your business; I take you through what we've got going on over here, and you feel holy [ __ ] that's crystal clear; this is going to fix the problem, but the investment is a significant chunk of the money you've got left, or maybe it's every penny you've got left bar your bare minimum living expenses. How are you going to make the decision?

I'm going to make the decision of almost almost uh plugging the hole or fixing the problem that is the most important first. I don't know what the the wording—you know what I'm trying to say—the most vital—the most vital problem I I need to fix first.

Okay. Was that—that I'm reading Dr. Robin's comment—well, that that doesn't really answer the question because there is no point us getting to the end of this call and I give you the opportunity for us to fix this problem and fix the fact that your life dream is currently yeah slipping through your fingers, and the mindset that is very common for a lot of people in that moment of taking a leap of faith and making a decision is, I'm so scared to let go of the very limited nothingness that I currently have, which is your $11,000 that is currently going to last you 10 more weeks before you have nothing left, and instead of actually looking at that money and going, holy [ __ ] this is my life raft; this is my—this is my actual saving grace, they look at it as like, oh, I don't—I don't want to—I don't want to use that investment because I have nothing left. And so we need to either get to a point where you're not going to allow your fears to run your decisions; you're not going to allow scarcity to run your decisions, because if you do, your your dream, with all due respect, will will be gone forever, or if we can't get to that point and you say, listen, man, I am going to be scared, and I'm probably going to freeze up and hesitate, then I would admire you for being honest, but we can't help you. Mh. So it is a very real situation that when we get to the investment you're going to be like, holy [ __ ] that's basically everything I've got. If you guys can solve this problem for me, and if I have the money, I'm I'm ready to go. Why is that? Why are you not going to do what most little [ __ ] [ __ ] do when their backs against the wall and just crumble at the last chance for you to live up to your dreams and to make the demands of yourself and to live up to your life principles? Why are you not going to let your dream disappear?

Uh, because I'm not a [ __ ] [ __ ], Josh.

Nice. All right, dude. Well, I I've pretty much got everything I needed, and I know that we can help you, and I know that you have the mindset to actually do what it takes to be successful. So if you want, I can take you through exactly how we fix the lead gen, how we fix the conversion, how we help you with the sales, basically how we get you to a place where you never have to look back at engineering again, you know that you can be a a full-time business fitness coach, you can help all the people that are out there that need your help that are going to resonate with your personal life story, and you can use this business to build the life of your dreams, which is to not only have the money to become a father and to be a family man but to also be the type of guy that has the ethical principles that are going to be passed on to his kids and passed on to his wife. And that's really what this business is all about; it's not just having a business and having money; it's being able to fuel you being the person that you want to be and living the life that you want to live. So we have a plan that goes A through Z, how we fix your problem. If you want me to take you through it, I can do that.

Let's do it.

Nice. Okay. All right. Done. All right. Does that make sense, Lee?

Yes, it does. Yeah. One—one question on that, Josh, um, how—obviously every call is not going to be the same, but balancing between when—when knowing that you've collected enough data so there can be no rationalization later on the on line. So, for example, we didn't dive into if he's doing anything else outside of just running the ads that he potentially could be an area that he hasn't invested enough time or energy in and that could potentially be a rationalization. So does that make sense?

Are you asking me like, have I tied down every logical potential reason that he couldn't buy? Is that what you asking me?

Well, I know you've tied them down several times, right? But we gathered the data around the ads, and there wasn't like a huge amount of data gathering, and I've noticed that I'm spending too much time in the data gathering, and as we identified here, it has to be at a faster pace, right? So you went into how does that make you feel when he was flushing so much money down the drain—really ads—but we didn't get into any information around like ballpark figure on on expenses or if he's doing anything else outside of the ads.

Yeah, it's a great question, because there is so many ways that you can go through the sales call. What I'm looking for in my data gathering is have I found a vein—a vein being like a vein of gold—a vein where if I tap into that vein, the severity of the the details of that current situation are going to be enough for the guy to take action. There is multiple different veins that you can tap into; usually you're only going to need one. Unless you tap into one of those veins and there's just not enough there, then you're going to have to build the chair legs up, and you're going to have a bit of this and a bit of that and a bit of that. But the moment that I got onto the fact that he's flushing all of this money down the toilet, I then just needed to know—well, a person isn't going to be on this sales call cuz they're flushing $20,000 down the toilet; they're going to be on a sales call because that $20,000 means more than the $220,000. In other words, there is loads of business owners that are flushing money down the drain every month on their ads, and they just keep doing that month after month after month after month. Something changes when something happens in their mind or their outside world that they go, I don't want to waste that money anymore; I need to change. That is the vein that I needed to tap in into, and Braden then said, well, the reason that that is so important to me that I'm now on this call is all of the stuff about the engineering job, wanting to be a dad, wanting to help people. As soon as I'm into that terrain, I I I know the call's done; like I just need to play it out, and it's done. So all the data gathering is to find that opening. Once you find the opening, you just go for it; otherwise you'll try and get into every single opening, and you'll be on the call for 3 hours. All I need to know is can I find something that's truthful enough, that's juicy enough, that's a cost that's large enough that he's going to buy right now, and I need to back that cost up with—is there any other things that would prevent him paying this price? The price of the program, to not pay the price of the consequence. In this case, the obvious objection was you don't have much money left, so I need to handle that; if not, that is going to be the the full back as to why he doesn't buy, so I'm going to handle it now. Yeah. Could you could you find the wrong vein? Of course you can, brother, and if you go down the wrong vein and you're like, well, there's nothing here, it's scriptless, so you just you just back up, and you just go and ask.

Something else absolutely you can, but usually they're they're they're like lights that follow one another. Okay, he's got a he's got a lead gen problem. Okay, well let's dig into the lead gen problem. How much is it costing him? Well, it's costing him a load of money. Well, probably if I keep going down the line, that's that's like the the lights are leading me down there. It's very rare that you go down all of this misdirection and then you're like, oh, it's a dead end. That that very rarely happens. It it could happen, but if you keep following the obvious signs, it's just going to get worse and worse and worse for the prospect.

Make sense?

Yeah.

Makes total sense. Yeah. Matt, what's going to be the biggest thing? The biggest thing for this guy is so obviously that he's going to get to the price and he's going to be like, well, I don't have any money. That's a lot of money, so I don't know. I I have to think about it. No, you don't have to think about it. The decision is going to be a [ __ ] hard decision, whether it's today, tomorrow, God tells you to do it, your wife gives you permission, any other rationalization that you give you that you give yourself, it's going to be a massive decision. You're going to tell me right now what you're going to do when you get to that massive decision, otherwise I'm not going to pitch you. And you see how I'm just explaining to the prospect the reason why I'm doing that. Why do you think I need to know how much money you've got? I don't know. We'll think about it. Well, I really don't know. Okay, well let me help you imagine you had $100,000 in savings and you're currently spending $22,000, and the reason that you're in this position is you haven't paid this enough attention. How much attention are you going to pay to it if you have a runway of $100,000? Well, not very much. How's that going to go for fixing the problem then? Oh, it's not going to allow me to fix the problem. Beautiful. So let me clarify based on your situation, how much attention you're going to have to pay. How much money exactly do you have? $11,000. Okay, so you have nine weeks. How much how significant is that as far as the attention you're going to pay? Oh, it's massively significant. Why? You've got nine weeks. Well, [ __ ] nine weeks is nothing, and I don't want to spend my savings and blah blah blah blah blah. I'm I'm just having a conversation and they're selling themselves.

Yeah.

Does anybody want to come onto the chat on uh sorry onto the zoom and share any realizations you've had or takeaways or a question? Put in the chat if you have anything you want to add. MJ, beautiful. Let's bring MJ up. How do I do that? Where's the participants? There we go. All right, MJ, you should have permission to come and talk with us. Did that work? There you go. Beautiful. What's up, guys? I'll keep this just loving this. I'll keep this brief. I think the biggest thing I dropped in the chat was you're selling them completely in discovery before you even make any transitions to close them. And so I always thought about the discovery as like basically fact-finding, and then your pitch is really where you sell them, but you're like going through everything to make sure, hey, is this person even sellable in the discovery, and I'm selling them on them actually taking action before I even go into the pitch completely.

Yep.

100%.

Yeah.

100%. Who else wants to come up and add anything else? Ivan, did you want to come up or are you saying yes in general? Let me know. All right, let me bring you up. It's live. All right, I'm gonna send you back to the peasants, MJ. I'm just kidding. All right, how do we move? Great job, guys, by the way. Good roleplay, Lee. How do I do that? See how does it work? You guys hear me? Here, I'll just I'll leave and then come back in. Oh, beautiful. All right, thanks, brother. What do you want to share, Ivan? So I'm gonna keep it quick as well, but the biggest thing that I really took away from this is once you actually have the data, it's also super important how you actually phrase the summary. So, for example, it's not that you have a 6% conversion rate. No, you have 94% of leads that don't convert that you are actually paying for, and just in the way you you say that, it's g to get out all of the pain, and it really presents itself, but it's super important that you know how to phrase it. And then the other important thing is when you finally got to the end and really said, look, you're in this because you haven't figured out the game of money, and now with the last savings that you have, are you even going to hold on to that or actually invest it to make a change? You frame it a little bit differently, but how you did it like that also overcomes yeah, the financial objection that I run into a lot of the times where you do all the digging, you have everything, but then they don't have money, and I don't want to give that last savings away. And when you frame it this way, it changes the mindset around that. That's huge as well.

100%.

Well spotted, brother. Yeah, guys, framing by gathering the data is so important. Let me give an example. My closing question. So let me ask you a question, Braden. How much longer do you want to have a 6% conversion rate? He's not going to buy anything if that's my closing question. How much longer do you want to flush $222,200 down the drain a year? How much longer do you want to have 11 weeks left of your dream still having breath inside of its lungs? How much longer do you want to not be living out the principles yourself that you demand of your clients? How much longer do you not want to be the type of dad that you know you want to be because you're not even able to fix your financial situation? You're not able to pay attention to the right things; you're not able to live by the right principles. How much longer are you willing to not have the help that you need to get all of that solved? Like I can just summarize everything into my question, but I'm summarizing the framing of everything. It's not a 6% conversion rate that we're selling him a solution to; it's his life dream, his likelihood of being a father, his likelihood of being a guy that lives out his own principles that he demands of other people. Those are significant things, and they all came from a 6% conversion rate.

Yeah.

Well done, Ian. Yeah, framing is so important. All right, let's bring up Harrison and Max. So where's Harrison? Harrison, you should be coming up. There we go, brother. Bewildered. Absolutely. I mean, just my biggest takeaway was just the overall detachment from it because there clearly sometimes that Braden you could tell he was getting really passionate about it and was kind of grappling through like his answers and decisions, but just like how calm and demeaned you were and the detached you were from his answers because you at the end of the day were just leading to his truth. So just the overall detachment, especially when Braden was going through like the highs and lows and going deep into the questions, like that's always like my biggest takeaways every single every single time we do these.

100%.

All right, next one. Let's yep, not too high, not too low. Let's bring up Max. All right, Max, I think you're the last one coming up. Yeah, don't get excited when they tell you something, Matt. All right, Kendra's going to come up as well. What's your takeaway, Max? Yeah, so for me, the like good takeaway was not being on this bouncing ball, just going from data to then thinking of how to gather pain and stuff, so that was really good. And I wanted to follow up on that. Um, so let's say you got data and it's within like five minutes of a call or or seven minutes, for example, would you ask this question, how how do you feel about that, or is it still premature? It's not about time; it's it's about when is there something that I'm genuinely curious about? How do they feel? If someone's spending or flushing $22,000 a year down the toilet, I'm curious, how do you feel about that? I'm I'm just curious. My questions are always coming from what am I most curious about? It's not about time. Now, in general, should you be curious about how someone feels about their situation when you only have three data points about their situation? Probably not, because how are you going to be curious about a very vague and foggy picture? Whereas once the picture is pretty clear, I'm like, hm, I'm I'm I'm curious, how do you feel about this? So as things become clearer and more precise, my curiosity follows the the precision. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. Thank you. You're welcome, brother. All right, we got Kendra. All right, Kendra, can't hear you. There we go. Go. What's going on? Hey. All right, so I noticed that like when I get into it's kind of like when people say like, well, I don't know what you guys do and stuff like that, I'm like, well, obviously. And so I get into I get more focused on when people say they want to be the best versions of themselves because I'm like, that pumps me up and I'm like, yeah, you do you. And then but that's not what people sell like get or sells people. So I tend to basically not dig into the pain obviously as much as you would. And so I find like that part to be the the biggest barrier for myself is like really digging into that pain and making that person feel uncomfortable. I think that's the biggest thing for me that I took away from this is like probably a good idea to do that.

Probably.

Yeah.

Definitely. Yeah, and so having watched just one example of how to do it has that changed anything as far as you feeling more equipped to do it, to give it a go? I think it would definitely is going to take practice on my end. Yeah, because I it makes me uncomfortable to make somebody else uncomfortable. You you need to watch the roleplay. I think it's coming out on Monday on YouTube with Faith. It was a very similar thing. Yeah, that that's a that's a big mind virus for closers is I don't want to make my prospect feel uncomfortable because it makes me feel uncomfortable. And what you have to reframe, and I I won't do it now in 60 seconds, but I'll I'm just finding when the video is going out, you have to reframe in your mind that the thing that you should feel most uncomfortable about is going to bed that night trying to sleep knowing that you didn't go deep enough or challenge the prospect enough that they're going to stay in their situation and not fix it. You you should feel very uncomfortable about that. You should feel that sales is sacred and it and you have a duty to actually do your proper job on a sales call, and if you don't do that, you should feel uncomfortable. You shouldn't you shouldn't feel uncomfortable to actually get to the truth of things, but it it's a reframe that you have to go through. So let me see here the yeah, it's going out on Monday, so I recommend anybody that is struggling with oh, I I feel a bit uncomfortable getting my prospects into pain, you need to watch that one on Monday. It was a one-on-one call I did with Faith from being on this training last time. All right, and I guess my other question is like, have you actually said to people, well, are you gonna be a [ __ ] [ __ ] and blah blah? Like I I have. Yes, and I don't think there's an issue with it. Um, bear in mind that I am playing the game of I'm so serious at at the way I ask the right questions that sometimes I intentionally say things to kind of break the ice a little bit, and it's it's like as you go, it's like a pendulum. As you go more extreme in one direction, if you stay in that spot, it's going to start feeling like this is too serious, this conversation, so then I swing the pendulum the other way. I wouldn't recommend saying something like that if you're not not going as far in the pendulum in in the one direction. If you're just going a little bit more serious and more deep than you're going now, then then just keep working on that side of the pendulum, but there will come a point where for your own sense of self as a closer, it it's like, Jesus, these calls are all just just too serious, but I know that I need to be serious with the prospect otherwise they're not going to face reality, but I can balance that both for the prospect and for myself with with having a little bit of it's it's called a pattern interrupt, a little bit of ice-breaking. But yeah, I've I've I've said way worse than that when I sell. I said way worse than that.

Yeah.

Yeah. Hey Josh, can I add something to what Kendra said originally?

Do please do.

Yeah. Hey Kendra, did you originally say that one of the best things that you love on sales calls is to leverage uh individuals becoming the best versions of themselves?

Yes, you say that.

Yeah. What I would say and what I've done is you can use just like what Josh was just saying about um the pendulum, just leverage do you know what the inversion method is?

Yeah.

So just leverage the inversion inversion method with that same principle. So okay, now what's the worst version of yourself? What does the worst version of yourself do on a daily basis? How do they make decisions? And are you in alignment with the worst version of yourself because you're you're not successful the way you want to be? MH, and then you could consequence that as well. What happens if you keep don't fix this problem? Are you going to continue to be the worst version of yourself or the best version? Just a little. Yeah, add in there. Thank you. All right, I think that's us, guys. I'm going to get two more pieces of feedback from Lee and Braden, and then we'll be wrapping up. So let me just swap this. All right, so who do I start with? Let's start with Lee. What is your biggest takeaway, Lee? Reiterate everything that everyone has said there with a big standout is number one, being more efficient in the discovery and looking for a vein of gold, and also not being afraid of attacking the wrong vein if it doesn't strike the right piece of gold. Another big thing that I noticed as well, you just went deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and tied them up and didn't let them off the hook, and I feel like I 100% would have fumbled the ball at a certain point in that conversation, and my conversations don't go on for that length of time around that stuff specifically. Obviously, one of the main reasons why I'm here to be able to sell like Josh. And then also the way you framed the savings at the end, me personally personally, I never would be as blazé and truthful around that specific objection, and I potentially would have maybe danced around and and framed it in a different way, not because I'm I'm afraid to talk about that, just because I've actually genuinely never seen that framing and that wording tackle an an obstacle that was going to be an objection at the end, but it didn't come across salesy whatsoever. If I was in Braden's shoes and I was listening to that, it just broke down so much logic cuz you were just telling me the ultimate truth whether I was aware of it or not. That's some really really great takeaways. You you did say that you're not afraid to to bring it up as I brought it up, and I I do believe you. I think there's a lot of closers that are afraid to bring up the facts and the truth. In other words, they're like, if I don't bring it up, I'll just roll the dice and see if I get it as an objection at the end of the cool, and hopefully it just won't be a price objection or it won't be a fear objection. And I don't like gambling my income on rolling the dice, guys. I like to know how much I'm going to get paid at the end of every single month as a closer. The only way you know exactly how much you're going to get paid month to month to month is if you're not rolling dice; you're you're doing what you need to do, and you're taking proactive measures and being in control and being being independent on the sales call, not rolling the dice and thinking, well, you know, I don't really want to talk about the obvious elephant in the room because if I bring the elephant into the room, well, that that might not be good; that might ruin the sale. Well, it might not ruin the sale, but what you're doing instead is you're just shutting your eyes and walking into the room like this like, well, I [ __ ] hope I don't bump into a wall. I'd rather just talk about it, and if if the person just really won't get over that fear, won't tell me that when the fear comes up, they're going to make this decision, then him and I or her and I if it's a female prospect, we know where we're going from there. There's no pitch. I I want to control every part of the sales call because it's my income on the line and it's also the prospect's life on the line. So being more to to put it simply, guys, it's just being more professional. Professionals don't roll the dice and see what happens at the end of the call; they control every step of the way. That's why the fundamental part of doing that is the four cool pillars. You have four waypoints through the cool where you know you've done the cool right: the opening, the framing, the transition, and the temp check. If you've done everything right, you will know with almost certainty how the call's going to go. The other thing I wrote down here is I'm curious for everybody in the chat and and Lee and and Braden as well, having having that honest, blazé, truthful bit of the conversation at the end, are you guys seeing the dots connecting now as to why I never had to do follow-up, why I got most of my calls on paid calls, and why I had such a high close percentage, 93%, when I was closing full-time? Like I'm controlling everything, so when the sales manager says, oh, are you going to do follow-up? I'm like, no [ __ ] you, I don't need to do follow-up. And I can say that with absolute certainty. I don't need to follow up with anybody. I've done my job on the cool; they're buying right now, or if at the end of the call they didn't buy, there is nothing a text message or or an email or sending them an email every week for the next six months is going to change anything. Nothing's going to change. I've controlled everything. It's a good thing and a bad thing that Christian, yeah, because you should be watching what I'm doing and thinking, holy [ __ ] this is this is bad, how much more I have to learn, but it's also good that if any of you are making 10K a month now and you're watching what I'm doing, that's how you can be like, you know what, if I actually nail all of this, hell yeah, I can make 50 grand a month in commission. Why not? Like the gap from where you're at now to what I'm doing, you should just be looking at that as money that is floating around in the world that you could be putting into your pocket. If that gap was this big and your you're making 10K a month, you should be worried why you're in this mastermind thinking, well, I guess my max income could be 15K a month or 20K, when the gap's like this. Whatever you're making, you should be like, wow, I could make 100K a month. All all I've got to do is spend 18 months mastering this, and that's it. Yeah, hey Josh, let let Lee just add any additions, and then I'm going to move over to you and get all of your feedback.

Makes whole sense. Just just wanting to add on that about the savings. I felt like I would have clarified along the lines of, okay, so you've got X amount of savings, if you felt like you had a guaranteed solution at the end of this call, would you be willing to invest and use those savings? And then if they had have said yes, I might say why, but you just kept digging and getting them to commit more and more and more. Was I feel like if I was in that situation being the closer, it would have led to an objection at the end, especially with someone who is operating from a place of scarcity and they only have like seven weeks left of runway. Yeah, why would they give that up at the end just because they said to me once yes, and they told me why in a couple of sentences, but your framing around the the mindset and something else that was a huge shift to get them to see a bigger and better future if they're willing to operate now as the person who they want to be in the future almost.

Yeah.

100%.

All right, Braden, wrap us up, brother. Why I was I was going to ask you, Josh, you mentioned how most closers are not able to dig deep in their uncomfortable, really searching for the truth. Do you think that's because they haven't done that internal work of searching for the truth within themselves, and they are not comfortable digging into their own selves, so how can they dig into someone else's problems?

Pretty much yes. I'm going to slightly rephrase the okay, the reason it's not as much that they haven't done the inner work or or whatever, it's it's very simply that they're telling themselves two stories, and both of those stories are lies and they're rationalizations. And so these are the two stories. Story number one, they tell themselves, I don't really need more money. 10K a month, that that's fine, my life's fine. Well, if you don't tell yourself, I'm going to die if I don't get richer, then when it comes to push comes to shove and you're going to have to challenge the prospect, you don't have the burning motivation inside of you that you're willing to do what it takes. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. And if you tell yourself the story that the amount of money you make right now is is is bearable or a little bit more money would be great or would be fine, if you're making 15K a month now and you're telling yourself, you know what, if I can just slowly work my way up to 25K a month, that would be awesome. No, if you're telling yourself that story and you're not like unless I'm making 100K a month, I'm broke, then when it gets tough, you are just not going to have it inside of you. So that's the first story is however much money you're making now, however much money you think you need to make, and I'll tell you a personal story in a sec. You need to be framing that in your mind, and it needs to be true. It's not a reframe; you need to genuinely believe that is money. So yeah, yesterday I went house viewing, and uh, I went to see two properties. The first one I didn't like; the second one I really liked. It was beautiful design, and I said to the guy, and so this is funny how it's a total coincidence. I said to the guy who's the brother of the owner, it's his sister that owns it. I said, I absolutely love this house, but if it was in this location, and I told him a location that had the best view of the city, and he turned around to me and he said, you know what, we've got the exact same house by the exact same architect that is also in that exact spot, and I said, wow, can we go view it right now? He was like, sure, we'll go view it right now. So we went to view it, and this house was double the square footage but was just phenomenal, and we walk in and I'm looking at this house and I'm thinking, this is my dream house, like my absolute dream house. So we're walking around, and I'm like, I I I really want this house; like I need this house. And so I spoke to the real estate agent, and they told me the price a month, and I was like, I'm poor, poor as [ __ ]. So the house is $25,000 a month, and I'm like, damn, I'm too poor. And so like when you actually realize like how poor you are, it's it's crazy, but you you have to live with that mindset of and by the way, for any of you wondering, I I am going to try and negotiate the price a little bit, and if I can a little bit, I'll take it. That price a month for me is is going to be a massive push for me as far as mental growth. I'm I'm going to I'm going to if I can get the right price, I'm going to take the house knowing that it's going to put my back against the wall again because that's how you need to make decisions, guys. Not me looking at that price and going, oh, that's too expensive, like you know, I'll just play it smaller again. It's that's going to be pushing me, and therefore I have to get even more rich, right? So that's the first story that that costs people being able to do this. The second story they tell themselves, which is probably even more of a lie, is I'm a nice person because I don't challenge people, and I would be a not nice person if I challenge them. And the rationalization they tell themselves, the story they tell themselves is that they're doing it for the prospect's benefit. They're being nice to the prospect because that's for the prospect's benefit. That is just a [ __ ] story that you're telling yourself to allow you to go to bed at night and justify why you're a [ __ ]. Allow you to go to bed at night and justify why you're not willing to care more about other people than you are about your own sense of ego being being knocked. So those two stories, oh, it's I'm I'm doing it for the prospect's benefit to not to not be too harsh on them, and I don't really need more money. If you can reframe both of those stories in your mind that you're poor and everything you want is going to cost you a shitload more money than you can even comprehend that you're going to need right now, and when you level up financially, there's going to be another thing that you want that's even more expensive, and you reframe that in your mind, and you also reframe in your mind that the only thing that should matter in life when you're working with other people is doing whatever it takes for the other person's benefit, regardless of how it's going to make you feel or how your going to think the prospect thinks about you. If you reframe both of those two stories, you tap into something that has a name, and the name is going to invite you guys to realize how powerful it is. The name of what you tap into when you reframe both of those stories is God mode. When you reframe both of those in your mind, you are in mode; you are unstoppable. You have so much internal drive that you'll do whatever it takes to get richer within ethics, and you don't lie to yourself that ethics is actually protecting your own ego. You tell yourself the truth that your ego is worth being damaged to help other people. You have more drive, and you don't have any rationalizing that's limiting your actual actions and your behaviors. It's like having a Ferrari that has an infinitely powerful engine, but also removing any friction and any air resistance, any drag, any type of weight that's going to slow the car down. You have the best engine and zero resistance; you are invincible. You're in a slipstream that cannot be beaten. And if you don't hold the mirror up correctly with the prospect, then you are it's the opposite is true; you're not doing them a service. You know, spare the rod, you hate the child. You know, you're not the opposite is true.

Yeah, I agree 100%. I will say my takeaway.

From everything Josh, just so you know, is your ability to adapt. So if you don't have the adaptability, you can't do that level of Discovery because the variables that I'm throwing out are never going to be written on a piece of paper. So the ability to adapt, solve that problem, and tweak the little minute details in real time is what separates me being able to just give you a [__] response versus you doubling, tripling down, and then now I'm cornered, and and my hands drop, and then you knock me out, you know, so to speak, right? That that's there's a video on YouTube that I I take someone through without any biased opinion why scriptless selling is more effective than scripts. And the whole premise is that the key to success is being adaptable.

Mhm. There's a phrase which says it was Charles Darwin that said it: it's not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

Yeah, exactly. So if you're using a methodology that you think is stronger or smarter, or you know, follows human behavior, or you know, whatever phrase is, so that doesn't matter. What matters is that the methodology you're using is the most flexible. And the only flexible way to do anything is to follow first principles rather than rules and regulations and Frameworks and scripts. It's no, what are the principles? The principles are understand human behavior; the principle is understand yourself; and the principle is then being able to adapt in real time to both yourself and other people. And you can always gel in the middle. And if you do that, you'll never be on the phone with a prospect that you can't do the best possible outcome with that prospect. That best possible outcome might be a no sale; it might be an unsell, and you can't sell. But to be able to get the best outcome, you have to be 100% adaptable. It's almost like the Bruce Lee quote where he says, "Be Like Water." Be like water be like that in every single sales call so you can adapt to any form of response from the prospect.

Yep. And then the rationalization—not that any of you have said this because you're all in this Mastermind, but this will go on YouTube as well—that sounds much more difficult. Well, yeah, that's why you make a 100 Grand a month, not 10. Like, which part do you not understand? Like, oh, well, I want it to be as easy as using a script, but I want to make crazy money. Well, doesn't work like that. You want to be a boxer that can only throw the same repetitive sequence of punches and Jabs, then go in the ring, and you'll get beaten by nine out of 10 opponents. You want to be the boxer that can win any match. You want to be Mike Tyson or whoever is your favorite boxer. You need to understand how to read the person, how to understand your own body movements, and how to combine any combination of moves based on what's going on in real time. Oh, but I don't want to train 7 hours a day. Don't be Mike Tyson then. Like, you you can't have your cake and eat it. So you know what, just you know what just popped into my head, Josh, was if you think about running water, and if you think about if it had tons of mass that was in the water, that mass and those objects would stop the water from being able to move fluid and be adaptable. Those those mass and those can be the internal issues as well that's in an individual. As they fix those, that now everything's running fluid, and they're able to have that adaptability in real time and the way they didn't before.

100%. It's removing all of those blocks, and at the same time, it's mastering all of the different fluid moves so you can adapt in real time.

100%. All right, guys, it's been a pleasure as always. I will see you guys on Wednesday in the live call, and I'll see you guys all in chat in school as well. I hope you have a great rest of your weekend, guys. I'll talk to you soon. All right, what a banger, if I say so myself. We have covered being effective and efficient in sales calls by learning how to spot what matters and spot what doesn't. How do you learn that? Well, you can watch some of these YouTube role plays which are about an hour and a half long, or you could actually do 5 hours a week of training inside of our live Mastermind. Which one do you think is going to allow you to progress quicker? Which one is going to allow you to develop a higher level of Mastery and progressing quicker and developing a higher level of Mastery? Which one is going to make you more money? The secret lies in proximity to the mentor, being on the call rather than just watching the call as an outsider. The other thing that improves how quickly you learn and how much you learn is actually being able to engage in the call, getting your questions answered, being The Closer on the roleplay and getting customized feedback to you, being the prospect on the role play, actually feeling the experience of being inside the roleplay, being inside the Mastermind on a live 5-hour call and having access to me personally. So whilst it's good that you're watching these YouTube role plays, and it's better than nothing, if you really want to step into the reality that we were talking about in that Co living the life of your dreams, mastering sales, understanding humans, fing yourself, and being able to make an insane amount of monthly commissions, the only way is to get real mentorship. There'll be a link somewhere below this video, and you can click that, and you can actually show up how you want your prospects to show up, like Braden was saying, not demanding more of your prospects than you're demanding of yourself. That is not living out the universal laws and the universal principles. So have fun, keep getting bad prospects, low leads, follow-ups, all of that [__] that's because it's a law of the universe, guys and girls. Click the link below, go to the website, watch the video, and if you still resonate with what you've seen after that video, do not procrastinate, do not hesitate, do not be the person that is Flushing your dream down the toilet. What else did we cover? We also covered framing, how you have to frame everything in the truth, and the more detailed, precise, specific, accurate the truth is, the more the price feels insignificant; the more taking action, getting out of someone's comfort zone, doing an action and a behavior that they've never done before feels insignificant compared to the cost and the severity of their current situation. We also covered how you sell them in the discovery; you do not sell someone in the pitch. We covered Detachment. We covered a number of different things that ultimately mean you close more deals, you close more paid in fulls, you close one call closes instead of doing followup and all of that nonsense. If you want to be a master closer, if you want to live your best life, become the best version of yourself and get rich through the vehicle of closing and through the personal transformation and personal development that closing can and should really be used for, join us. I invite you to join us inside the Mastermind right now. Click that link below, stop watching YouTube videos and start being in the arena, start actually playing the game. Don't be a spectator; be someone on the court and start becoming a legend in sales. I'll see you on the inside.