Metaphysical Egypt guest Timothy Hogan 1

Hi everybody, welcome back to Metaphysical Egypt. I'm Alan Peoples with Patricia Aan Layman, and today we have a special guest, Timothy Hogan.

Hi Tim.

Hi, thanks for having me.

Um, you want me to give a little background of myself here?

Yes, please, for our audience who don't know who you are.

Yeah. So hi, I'm Timothy Hogan. I'm a—I'm the current Grandmaster of the Knights Templar of the—um, Order of the Temple of Secret Initiates lineage, and I run the Templar Collegia in conjunction with it. I'm also an author of uh several books, and I'm the host of Mysteries of the Knights Templar on Gaia. So um, that's general—about as general as we could get—that's my background. It's very general. I have to add, you know, that uh you know, Tim has been out lecturing at conferences all over—um, all over the United States, and so many of my friends have been contacting me. Tim and I, by the way, everyone, are about to work together on a—we're gonna co-host a tour together in February, and I'm so excited. I've never worked with Tim before, and I think Alan and I wanted to have this podcast so we could get to know you better.

Um, but I've been hearing all these amazing things. My friends are writing to me—some of them didn't even know that I—I knew you—and we've been talking about this tour and saying, you know, that you were their favorite speaker, or you know, they were telling—telling me about people that I—we've worked with—my friends and I in the past—and that—that you were like, "Wow, he's just—he just knows so much, and he reminds me of so-and-so." Um, so it was really exciting to hear that. Um, and of course, I told you I—I—I picked up one of your books and uh, you know, what Alan and I—and I've watched some of the podcast, of course, and you're on Gaia television now, and you know, there's so many exciting things going on in your life. Um, and I'm seeing your name everywhere.

Um, but what Alan and I have been discussing recently is how much what you say is exactly what we've been talking about—um, and I've been talking about for years. So it's kind of exciting how much in sync we are with a lot of the things that uh—that we talk about and know. But you have—I have to admit—

Oh, thank you.

I just—because I have to admit, you know, a lot of what I know I just inherited from the tradition, you know, that uh had been being passed down—um, within my order for, you know, centuries. But uh—but I—in—in some stuff, I feel like I've come up to—of my own uh understanding and been able to develop it further. But what's really exciting is being able to get with you, Patricia, because you have your whole other line of tradition that you've—you've gained, and you're—you're passing on, and it all jives really well, and as it should. Uh, but it's very exciting, and—and so I'm learning, you know, just as much from uh—from you. So it's great.

Well, thank you. And that, you know, that is part of why we do these tours and bring people together. Um, and you know, the fact that we haven't worked together is very exciting for me because when you're out at the sites and you're comparing and sharing, you—you—you tend to find so much more information because the two of you are looking at it, you know, from maybe—and—and sometimes there's more, but you're looking at it from different ways and angles, and suddenly everything starts to speak more loudly and more clearly, and you see so much more. Um, and that's—that I think is going to be the most exciting part about this—that you will bring some much depth of knowledge of things that I'm not aware of—um, from your tradition. And as you said, I have so much—I've been in Egypt going on 16 years in November.

Yeah, it's amazing. It's a long time to be going through these temples and reading and studying and researching. Um, so yeah, it's—it's going to be fun. But let's get started today. I did uh prepare—we talked about that we wanted to just talk about maybe Osiris and Isis and this whole dynamic that is such a huge part of the heritage of Egypt. So I created some slides for us to just kind of go through, hopefully in some kind of order. Let me pull them up.

Egypt Unveiled, and uh, February 15th to the 27th of next year, which I think is one of the best times of the year to come to Egypt. Uh, the weather is absolutely beautiful, and uh, it's—it's a little cooler. It can be a little cooler at night, but uh, if you were here right now in the middle of summer, you'd be happy to be there when it's a little cooler. So let's get started. Um, I brought this up from Dendera. It's the ceiling of the first hypostyle Hall—uh, as you walk in the entrance—and it shows us Osiris and Sopdu as Isis—um, and Sirius in a way. And this is Osiris, Asa, and—or—so the story is, you know, it's written in the stars—um, and mirrored on Earth.

Tim, yeah, please go ahead and jump in with anything you want to say at any time.

Well, yeah, I mean, there's just—there's—there's always that—that celestial relationship that's also reflected—uh, you know, on—on the ground in Egypt itself between Osiris and Isis. Um, of course, Osiris was uh depicted by uh Orion, the constellation of Orion, and often times you'll see uh depictions of pharaohs with their—their triangular aprons on, and that triangular apron is actually—it's mimicking the shape of the—the star constellation of Orion itself. So you know, they're—they're—they're reflecting what's above, bringing it down below—um, that "as above, so below" type of relationship. You find that in the Monuments, you find that in the—how the Pharaohs are depicted. And the only other thing I would say too about that is uh, most people don't know—so in—in ancient Egyptian, Osiris's name is actually Osar, and it's—and it's only the uh—it was the later Greeks that—that made it Osiris. But the—the—the correct name is Asar, but the—the—the first part of Asar is actually—um, the "As" part is actually associated with Isis, which was—just "throne" or—or "seat," and that's where Osiris got his power from was from his sister-wife—um, Isis. And so the—the first part of the—the "O" part was—was associated with Isis, and then the "Sar" part was associated with the actual male deity of—of Osiris. But that—that was his complete name, and—um—and a lot of that had to do with the mythology surrounding Isis and Osiris.

Yeah, I just brought up the slide I had that has Isis with the throne on her head. Um, and she was known as the Per-aa, which is where we get the word Pharaoh. Um, it was the high house because of the—the lineage went through the female bloodline, and that's why so many of the Pharaohs married their mothers, their sisters, their cousins, or what have you, because they had to marry into the feminine bloodline. And you can actually see the word Osiris just to the left of her head. You see the throne—those two groups together make the—the name of Osiris, right? But I wanted to bring this up since we're talking about Isis and Osiris—um, you know, the whole story of them and their twin—you know, the—the twin sister and brother of Nebet and uh, Set, and of course, they get—you know, the Horus is introduced, and the—the—that these five Nets represent, you know, the five extra days—um, from—from a 360-day year, called epigeal days actually, uh, which I think is quite interesting because it also brings that—you know, that aspect of—you know, the Earth itself falling off its axis and us have—you know, this is—they are responsible for the four seasons and the whole agricultural process and all these different aspects of what they represent uh in the mythologies.

Yeah, Ner-Naro is—is, you know, for those who don't know, that's—that's actually the origin of the word "nature" as well. Um, and uh, you know, because it had to do with—they alluded to forces in nature, not just—not just anthropomorphic beings. Absolutely. But—and—and they—there was—you know, they related to a lot of different things actually in Egypt, but that—that was one of them.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so many different things. But yeah—um—and—and that's—that's what's interesting in Egypt because we find—and Hakeem did mention this—you know, that every—every glyph, every symbol, every myth—um, and icon has at least seven levels of meaning. Um, and that's—that's really fascinating. We can be at our root chakra level and take everything at face value, but as we open our senses—this is where we begin to see what's happening—you know, really happening, maybe in the space in between—um—and all the different levels. And it seems like that understanding is exponential as you move up to the next level.

Yes, not simply rungs on a ladder, but rather interdimensional—it's not one-directional, it's interdimensional—um, which is fascinating.

Yeah, you know, one of the things I—I find fascinating from a—from a cosmic standpoint is, you know, Osiris is associated with Orion, and uh, cosmologists have—have actually determined that our—our Milky Way solar system actually came out of—our Milky Way galaxy—I'm sorry—actually came out of Orion at one point in time in—in antiquity.

I've heard as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're kind of like an extension of that—that uh—that constellation. And uh—does this have to do with the uh Trapezium? Is that it?

No, just—just like we actually literally—we literally as a—so as a galaxy, we—you know, we're an extension of the Orion galaxy, and then the—and then the—

Oh, sorry, go ahead.

Okay. Well, I was just going to say in—in the myth of Osiris, you know, he's—he's—he's tricked by his brother, Set, and he's chopped up in pieces, you know, which are separated in different places, and—and what Isis does is she comes and she re-collects those pieces; she—she brings them back to life again. She has—but she has to collect them all first. And in a sense, um, we're almost like a piece of Osiris, or a piece of—just our—our galaxy itself is a piece of the Orion galaxy, you know, that had come out at one point in time. And that's an interesting way of looking at it.

Um, yeah, I've also heard that we may have come out of the Orion Nebula, which—yeah—which—that's the Trapezium that I'm talking about.

Yeah, the Trapezium, correct. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, which, you know, it's interesting because that is, you know, at the end of the sword that's worn in the belt that you see on so many statues, not only in Egypt, but uh, in Mesopotamia. I've seen it in Turkey, different places in the world.

Yeah, so I was pointing out where that image was on the Dendera Zodiac, and I always like to point out that when Orion—or even—uh, Osiris—and Hakeem even went further and said Wiir was the really ancient name—um, and possibly where we get our word "wiir," lizard. But when he takes that first step away from Harrus and away from Suus, he is basically taking a 23.5-degree angle step out of balance. Um, and the Dendera Zodiac is, you know, 36 deacons with 360, you know, days of a perfect year, but it's spiraling out into what we're experiencing today—um, from the center.

Yeah, I like how you have uh the Fool there.

Well, he is the Fool uh in the major arcana of the—of the Tarot deck. He is the one that takes that first step, and you know, he says, "Hey, I'm ready for this," right? Um, and it's that first step out of balance so that we can all go on the hero's journey, right? As we've pointed out before, this is the fractal pattern of all of our lives. We all go on the same hero's journey. We are all that Fool when we take our first step.

Exactly, which is what Tim just said—we are all Osiris. He's the land, he's the people, and he's the Earth itself—um, even three-dimensional—three-dimensional perception itself, right? And he's—he's the tree. And I—you would mention the—some of the pictures from uh the Osiris chapels on the second floor at Dendera.

Yeah, this is—since they've cleaned it—and look how beautiful that image is.

On the beautiful—yeah. There was a—one of the—one of the ways to look at it—um, is from an alchemical standpoint, and of course, Alchemy comes from al-Khem—or Khemet—was Egypt. It was the science of Egypt. But uh, you know, Osiris is painted green; he—he's really the—the origin of the Green Man, which you find throughout Europe in cathedrals and such. But—um—but in part of his process, of course, he—you know, he gets chopped up, and then he's—he grows into this uh tamarisk tree, and uh—and uh Isis is able to partially uh bring him back after he's been in this tree, and it's—and it's really suggestive of—from an alchemical standpoint—there's a—there's a belief that there's these secret salts that can be extracted out of the tamarisk tree. And so—but you have to go through this—and—and—and the alchemical process is the same whether you're extracting uh the secret salts or whether you're extracting acids or whatever—it just depends on the—the—the plant matter that you're—you're working on. But all—all alchemical processes involve three main steps, and the first is digestion, where the—the herb is thrown into a—a liquid uh to allow the oils to—um, kind of leech out of the plant into the solution so you can capture those solutes—those oils. Uh, the second stage is a distill, where uh that—that liquid is heated up and turned into a steam—uh, and then it's captured at—usually the higher point of the vessel where uh—you know, you can get the subtle essences from it. And then the third stage is a calcination, where—where the bodies burn down, and then the salts are—are—are—um, extracted. And once you do these three processes, you can then recollect the—the salts, the oils, and—and the uh—whatever the subtle essence was that you're getting out of it and recombine them and raise the thing back to life as a new body. And this is what we find in the story of Osiris, where he's—you know, he's thrown into the Nile; he's chopped up; he's thrown into the Nile, which is digestion; uh, Isis turns herself into a bird and flies around them, which is—the bird was always a depiction of the distillation because that was—it—it flies to the highest point of the—of the—the vessel; uh, and then finally, uh, she—you know, she—she lights incense and oil lamps and such and raises him back to life, and this was the fire of the calcination stage of it. So we find in the myth of Osiris, as Isis raises Osiris, these stages, and—and uh, if we do this with—with tamarisk, we can extract certain medicines out of it. If we do it—there's other plants that grow in Egypt, like, for example, there's a—a plant that's scientific name is *Diapedum*, and it's depicted on some of the temple walls. But if you do the same process to that, you're able to extract out hydrofluoric acid, which eats granite. And so you're able to—you can actually etch granite because it eats away at the silica in the granite, and the only thing that stops it is—um—beeswax and gold. So uh, you know, for a long time, Egyptologists were trying to figure out why they were coming across uh certain monuments and stuff that were coated in beeswax, and they couldn't figure out what—why that was. And it's because you can actually cut out of the beeswax what you want burned out on the granite and—and create a template to etch the granite with—with the hydrofluoric acid using this process, and—and so—um—and then you just remove the beeswax, and you have a—you know, you have a perfectly etched granite, you know. And—and these were—this was some of those alchemical processes that the Egyptians were using, but it's—it's alluded to in the story of Osiris, and it's—and it's not—it's not to say that uh this is the only meaning behind the story of Osiris, but it's certainly one of them. And—and when you see him depicted in this plant state, that's really—you know, what it's getting to—you know, is this—this idea of—you know, uh—you know, the—the—the—what's the—what's the seed in nature that—that—that makes it fertile and—and growing and everything else, and how can you extract that out of it? So yeah.

No, that—that was a beautiful explanation, not only of—of the plant aspect. I have heard that they used plants in some way with that—uh, ving—um—and you know, some of the things that—you know, so many talk about—tool marks—which my feeling is they were always harnessing the forces of nature. Um, they didn't use machinery; they were—you know, they were so in sync with nature's cycles. But I loved your explanation of that—that—um—best explanation I've heard of how they did those—you know, those—some beautiful etchings on the Monuments.

Yeah, the two main ones that you find in Egypt, of course, are the uh tamarisk, and which grows, you know, in the desert area, but then also the—uh—Acacia. Um, and you find Acacia all over in the Bible too, but it's—and it's—it's—you find it emphasized in Freemasonry, but it's—it's because if you—the secret salts that you can extract out of Acacia—there's two salts you can extract out—one is a—is a monoatomic gold which Acacia leeches up and—and tends to hold a lot of—and then the second is uh—uh DMT, demethyltryptamine, which is also found in certain forms of Acacia. And so if you—stra that out and—you know, you were to—to ingest that or smoke that, as long as you had an inhibitor like Syrian Rue, which grows in the region, you're—you're going to have one hell of a psychedelic experience, you know, which—

Wow. That's exactly the same—you know, the Egyptians probably played with too. That's—that's just like—Iasa—a combination of two plants in a very specific way.

Same—same—same thing.

Yeah, same thing. Yep, exactly. Same opinion. You know, this all stems from a time that we were in right-brained consciousness and able to communicate with the plants, and the plants told us exactly how to create these—you know, these wonderful elixirs.

Yeah, that's what Asam-men say—the—the plants told them how—how to do it.

Makes sense to—well, it's interesting to—the uh—you know, the Bible makes reference to like the Ark of the Covenant, and it—it is made out of gold and acacia wood. But all over the temples of Egypt, they have depicted these arcs as well, and uh—you know, so—you know, that—I—I would assume they were made the same way. I mean, I think that's where probably the Hebrews got it from.

So this is—that's what Alan and I—we've been talking about on—on many of our podcasts—this whole concept of the Ark of the Covenant—uh, stemming from—again, many different levels of understanding and depths of knowing. Um, and yeah, there were many arcs and many different concepts of what that Ark was. You know, at one point, they—they show it as being—like the womb itself.

Yeah. But also in the barks and the Neset in—in—so you know, there's just so many ways of understanding the whole con—concept of the Ark of the Covenant.

Yeah, my favorite at—at the Temple of Har, Dendera, is if—when you're going up the stairs, you can see them—you can see them carrying an Ark up the stairs.

Yeah, the—they're looking—they're looking at it as they're carrying it up. And then on the—the downstairs, you see them also uh carrying it downstairs, but they're—but their feet are—are—are pointed down, but their heads are looking back at the Ark itself that they're carrying. You—and do you notice those stairs—when you're going up, you're spiraling up—the whole structure is built like the seasons. You know, it's embodying the cycles of nature. You spring into summer, the second floor, the heavens, and you—you know, you literally fall back down to winter, or the—you know, the night cycle.

Yeah, that's right—the Earth. So it's just amazing how they embody so much knowledge and wisdom even in all of their structure, and you know, we're barely scratching the surface of how much is embedded. Um, but yeah, just so—and here is Osiris—is the Green Man.

So yeah, that's right—no doubt about it.

Yeah, you got some great pictures.

Oh, well, you know, I love this stuff. Yeah. But here I'd like to bring up the concept of the wings of Isis and Nebet and Isis herself as being not only the veil, but the magnetic field around the Earth and around us, you know, that—you know, we have it emanating from all of our chakras, but also—you know, the heart is—is this large magnetic field—um—and you can see their wings around Osiris in the lower right-hand corner, and it—it just—this—this just jumped out to me years ago, and it just makes sense when you look at all the—the dynamics of the story.

Yeah. Um, it's the—the veil of forgetfulness that we're born into. Take away the magnetic field, and you know, all that galactic radiation—or enlightenment—suddenly we're—we're—we're enlightened, and we realize we're not our bodies.

Yeah, that's right. Um, and the veil is thinning right now. I mean, if you listen to some of the astrophysicists—and I do take a look at what Ben Davidson's doing uh fairly regularly—the—the magnetic field is—is weakening—um, exponentially in the last 160 years. I—I think that's huge for where we're at today and what's happening.

Well, it's going to affect—you know, it has the potential to affect a lot—a lot of things. You know, I mean, on the one hand, uh it could quicken our—our spiritual perception, but on the other hand, it could also be a—a detriment to our technologies. So it'll be interesting to see how that happens.

Well, radiation does affect our bodies, and it does cause issues with our lungs and with our heart and so many different things—cognitive functions. But on the other hand, I think it's also challenging us to remember that we're not our bodies, right? And that changes everything. Um—um—and we are so programmed by our core beliefs, and uh, I think if we were to start shifting and changing and remembering what—and who we really are, then uh that radiation isn't going to affect us quite so much.

Yeah, there's—there's one—at least—at least within the Western mystery tradition, certainly within Templarism and uh Freemasonry and some other traditions, uh there—there's a—there's always been a—a ritual uh that in which the—the candidate symbolically goes through a death and raising similar to Osiris, and the belief is that this—this was something that was passed down, you know, from ancient Egypt from the priesthoods of ancient Egypt originally. But it—it—the value of it is—is if—if the—if the ritual is performed correctly, the person will have an out-of-body experience as they go through this, and once the person has that out-of-body experience, then they know that who they are is more than just their body and that their consciousness survives the body and that uh the body is just a cocoon, much as it's depicted when it's mummified, right? It's just a cocoon.

Own exactly, and that the—and who you really are is—is a consciousness that transcends the physical body. And once you know that, then there's no fear of death, right? Which is—is what would make you a good leader because you could make decisions without fear of reprisal, you know—

Know when I was in—in college, I started astral projecting. I didn't know what it was, but I gradually got so adept at it, you know, for years I was doing it at will. Yeah. Really totally fascinating what I discovered about myself through those experiences.

Well, and—and then, you know, of course, then there's no fear of death after that, right? So because who you are is—is beyond that. So it's—yeah—kind of—It kind of—the Egyptian traditions all lead us towards that—getting us to that point where we understand who we are—uh, where we're going—and—and that uh there—there is a whole other dimension beyond this—just the physical plane that we're—we're used to living.

Oh, yes. Patricia, doesn't this ritual sound just like the Heb Sed festival ritual?

Well, it is. This is—they're emulating—everything that we're going to talk about today, they emulate in this Heb Sed—um—and you know, I believe in the very ancient times, the Heb Sed—now, to—to tell the audience what it is—I know—I know Tim knows—yeah—but it was a ritual that was performed by the Kings at about the 33rd year of their rulership—their reign—a jubilee, right? Right. But the—the whole concept was—it was at that point that everything fell out of Ma'at—um—you know, it would—the King was old and tired, right? And everything was out of balance—out of Ma'at—just sort of like the cycles of the Earth, you know, that we go through—um—and the idea was to restore—or unite—you know, these aspects. I like to say uniting the two hemispheres of the brain, even, because as I have this belief—um, based on a whole lot of research—that we have moved from a right-brain focus to a left-brain focus, and the Egyptians were totally immersed in this idea that we needed to—to harness the two hemispheres of the brain, and that's the true unification of Upper and Lower Egypt, which two crowns uh represent on one level. And so that's what I think they were doing during the Heb Sed. And in the end, you know, the King goes through this process, and I think in the very ancient times, they easily did it, and they—you know, that—that—that some of the pyramids and the symbolic tombs—like the tomb at Saqqara—was built to—for the living Kings to go through this near-death experience in which they—you know—and—and all the rituals, the oils, and the running—the uh—you know, through the labyrinth—and that reunification—all of that was all geared toward this idea of—you know, connecting the two hemispheres of the brain, having that blissful—you know—moment—that near-death experience where—that—you know, you have that moment of feeling you're one with everything that exists in the universe, and you bring that power of God—which is the Ner-Naro—the forces of nature—you bring that down to Earth, and you get crowned as a Horus—you know, you are a Horus King. And that's where our whole concept of God sitting on a throne starts because they're crowned; they sit on the throne; they're crowned, and they're called a god. Um, today we think all the Pharaohs thought they were Gods, but no, they—they—you know, if they were to have this experience—and I think in the very ancient times they did—um—and then they couldn't anymore; they couldn't figure out how to come back—bring them back—um—and uh it becomes a symbolic—um ritual, and they show it on the temples uh and they come up with other rituals to prove that they are divine, and the whole concept of the—original meaning of it uh is lost.

Well, we find this in the—in the myth of Osiris as well, because he—in a way—when he's chopped up into several pieces, it represents uh our perception of seeing everything as separate and—you know—and apart from each other, and it's only when it's all brought back into the Oneness again—when—when Isis recollects everything back into the Oneness—that—you know, that—that's the state of our consciousness too—entering into the Oneness where everything is—we see the bigger order of how everything goes together as opposed to being separate.

In—exactly. Exactly. I call it separation consciousness versus unity consciousness.

Yeah, exactly. Same thing. Um, I totally agree with you. Yeah. Yeah. Now…

What are you? What are your thoughts on, uh, you, of course, in Egypt? Uh, they would also talk about how, uh, different parts of Osiris were buried at different temples around Egypt. You know, I think I think at like, like Abydos, his his his leg was buried there or something like that, or um, and and I always kind of interpreted that as kind of the same thing that like, uh, in Antiquity, people would travel to the different temples to gain different knowledge. And as they gain the knowledge in each Temple, it was kind of equivalent to like, all right, you've—it's like a merit badge kind of—you you've earned Osiris's, you know what I mean? Like, and so the goal was to collect the knowledge from all the different temples and re- and assemble it. And and that was then the working Osiris, which was kind of like, uh, that was the knowledge that you're potentially gaining. That's how I interpreted it.

I don't just a little aside, that that reminds me very much of, uh, Saints' relics, you know, stashed in cathedrals all over Europe. I never thought about that until now. That yeah, I I always wondered why would they divide a body up and send a piece here and a piece there.

Right. Right. Well, let me take that as—Oh, go ahead. Finish.

Well, I just going to say I mean by by recollecting it, you're also recollecting the the wisdom from all those different temples, so that that helped you become, you know, they're raised Osiris in a way, I guess.

Yeah. Let me take this a step further, because the original story, he was chopped into 42 pieces, representing the 42 gnomes of ancient Egypt, 42 districts. And they went through these rituals, um, and the entryway at Sakara was most likely a place—I can't say factually, but I've discussed this with people, I've read white papers where it's been hinted at—but they made during the khak festival every year, the priests of every gnome would make little coffins shaped like Osiris or soar, and they'd fill it with the silt, the Black Earth, and they they plant the seeds of barley, wheat, and corn and make bread cakes. And the king, during his hset or other rituals that the priests would do, is you eat the bread, the bread cake from each one of these gnomes, and that's the reunification.

So this is the first communion.

Yeah, sure. And the barley, they make barley beer or wine. And of course, when the Nile floods and brings that silt, it also turns blood red from from the the mud and the silt, yeah, uh, coming from uh, down from Ethiopia and through Sudan and what have you, but it brings, you know, that muddy that water turns basically red, and that is the symbolism of the wine or the barley beer that they drink. Take now and drink. And so this is the body and the blood of Osiris, um, and the reunification. So another aspect of the hset, but also, uh, other rituals that they would perform during their seasonal, uh, celebrations.

That's great. Which is a ritual a billion Catholics perform every week.

Well, and this is, you know, when Tim said this, you know, it, you know, the Hebrews, the first, you know, the Old Testament of the Bible happens in Egypt. Yeah, um, and they take this this knowing from ancient Egypt—they were Egyptians—and it becomes part of their dogma and their truth, and this, you know, moves into Christianity, and it migrates across, you know, where, you know, people were migrating due to climate and so many different reasons, um, you know, out of Egypt, back to Egypt, but this knowledge moves—I mean, India, there's so many connections between Egypt and India, and and some of the rituals and the myths and the the understanding. So it's essentially the same culture, just viewed through two different lenses.

Yeah, same knowing, inner knowing that develops into maybe different icons, you know, different names, different stories telling the same, you know, meaning, the same thing.

Well, you you even have a, in that regard, you even have, uh, some of the same words, uh, you know, that are being emphasized. You know, I think of particularly, uh, you know, like, uh, words like Om, Ra, Ma. These are these are things that you find, uh, throughout the the Egyptian tradition, but you also find it within the Indian, you know, like Rama.

Right, forwards and backwards, right? Exact. If you read a language in reverse, it's almost a different language, forward.

Yeah, it's like, like, uh, Siwa, which means brain, and AAS, which means consciousness. It's just the reverse of Siwa in in ancient Egypt and or or, uh, or in, uh, uh another good one is, uh, uh, I lost it, but there's a lot of words in Egyptian in particular that they're backwards and forward relationship, or they're tied together somehow.

Yeah, right. Very often in Arabic. Well, modern Arabic, your masculine and feminine adjectives will be the inverse of each other, like akar and andra for red or right, Aswad and sa for black. Right, they're like the the mirror image of each other.

Right, a oh, well, the one one of the ones I was thinking was was Ben, uh, or or, uh, yeah, Ben, which is, uh, uh, as in like benu, like the benu bird, you know, which is like the Phoenix of Egypt, but but Ben is also means light or stone, but if you reverse it, it's neb, which is gold.

Yes, in, you know, so that there there's there's some relationships there, you know, alchemically. So many even just the tones, like Ka all over the world, Ka can relate to the same understanding, uh, Sa Ra. You find even Australia, I found a lot of this, um, and they were pointing it out to me, you know, the original people there. Utterly fascinating. I went into the national museum in, uh, in India, in Delhi, and, uh, they had a whole room dedicated to this, you know, just these tones and what they, you know, what they mean archetypally, the language of light.

Right. Now I've often wondered, you got the the resurrection of Osiris here, you know, we were talking about the different provinces, you know, associated with different parts of Osiris. I I've sometimes wondered if that's a carryover from, uh, I'm very much into the belief that there was a, you know, a pre-deluvian civilization that existed in Antiquity that, uh, that as, uh, it collapsed, probably, you know, during the Younger Dryas, that they kind of set up shop in Egypt. And so much of what the from a Templar part of what the Templar mission was really was to, um, try to—they they understood that there was this Universal flood myths everywhere, and there was a belief that there were certain pockets of survival after the flood, the main one being in Egypt. And so that's part of the reason why the Templars went down into Egypt in the in the, uh, late 1100s, early 1200s, specifically to try to find, uh, philosophies and technology and and anything that had survived, uh, from that pre-cataclysmic, uh, civilization. But the idea was that that just like what we find with the different provinces related to different parts of Osiris that had to be recollected, in the same way the Templars were going down there in other places too to try to find the different parts, yes, of that previous civilization that had to be recollected. And, uh, there's some indication of that a number of places, um, certainly, uh, all of the, uh, you know, the Sphinx and the the, uh, uh, the sphinxes in Egypt in particular—I say sphinxes, you because of course there's the Great Sphinx, but then you have the Avenue of the Sphinx, and you know, you find some different sphinxes—but, uh, the they're all seem to be pointing back to this Age of Leo when this time occurred. And at Karnak in particular, we find, um, we find as you enter Karnak, you have Amun, uh, being depicted as a ram, which was during the time of Aries when those were being created, but the but the head, they have heads of rams, but they still have bodies of lions. And it it it seems to be suggesting that, uh, the base origins, you know, went back to Leo, but they were, you know, practicing and creating these these, uh, these sphinxes during the age of, um, Aries. So of course they would depict the heads as the ram, and then the ram, uh, you know, for Amun, uh, you know, what sound does a ram make? It says—it says ba, which is, of course, you know, which is, you know, the, uh, one of the the primary aspects of the soul within the Egyptian tradition that it was calling out to.

So that can move between the worlds. That can move between the worlds.

That's right. It's exciting stuff.

It is exciting. I also relate the Lions to currency, um, most of them are feminine, although there's a couple masculine, uh, lions that you see, but the Lions become known basically as the king makers, um, and as you, you know, they're part of the throne, which is interesting. Incredibly interesting. But also the alignment of—Now, Hakee had always said that the Sphinx was Ten, and we have Robert Schoch and a couple other researchers saying it was Menet, but Menet was also a female lion, and she was sort of like a precursor to Ten. It was the same story of the wandering eye, that whole concept, um, but Ten is water. She's the spit. Te means spit, and n of course is the, uh, the womb of the heavens above. Right. And so Ten is the spit of n, and that's right into Sepy, you know, with the the Sphinx being this, you know, this first breath, the spit from the heavens, and we are created as a spitting image, right, of the heavens above.

Right. Right. Right. It's also fascinating, but I, you know, I've also done a lot of research into this, of the the Sphinx basically being an alignment with an ancient magnetic equator, which would have been a powerful line of fertility, uh, we were in a much closer state of balance when we were in a state of Maat. That that magnetic equator would have been so powerful. Today, you know, and we're never taught that there is a magnetic equator. We're never taught, you know, and and I I sort of glean this as I, you know, I used to be, uh, in in an apartment at the base of the Giza plateau, and I had was on the fifth floor, so I'd get up and have coffee with the Sphinx every morning, and I, you know, I I I wanted to know why Hakee said it was Ten, and um, I had, uh, Solim on Facebook—no less, social media—that said, never sleep where a cat sleeps. And so I looked it up, I Googled it, and, uh, what came up were all these medical websites that said cats are attracted to, um, uh, these geopathic stress zones where there's underground running water and cavities and well, basically they were describing the Giza Plateau.

Yeah, sure. And it all started to come together for me, um, and the story is Te leaves because Egypt's fall—you know, a lush and beautiful Egypt has fallen out of Maat, fallen out of balance—so she leaves, go south to Nubia. Well, you know, that's the story of the Ark, one of the stories of the Ark of the Covenant, but it's also, you know, the story of where the magnetic equator is today, which is way down at—totally all over the place, you know, it's not this beautiful line of currency, but it that's where it went, and we in this state of imbalance. But in the story, and you see this depicted in the temples all over Egypt, she is—she basically is persuaded to come back to Egypt, um, and bring the flood waters with her, um, and that tells the story of an an of the annual flood, but I think it's a much greater story of this experience, this, you know, you mentioned that, you know, the catastrophic event about, you know, 12,500 years ago or, you know, thereabouts, um, this is a cyclical thing, and they point this out in so many different places in Egypt. And so if it's happening every 12,000 years, like so many people believe, this this also speaks to a much greater cycle.

Yeah, that's right. It seems to be a—it seems to be so much in—what is being relayed in Egypt is this idea that, uh, you know, we came from this spot, uh, we stabilize things, and you know, we have the potential of going back to that that chaos again at some point, and but it's cyclical, it's all based on cyclical things.

Yeah, exactly. This now this is a beautiful picture of, uh, Osiris here, isn't that? Again, this is one—this is after they cleaned, uh, the chambers, um, it's just—yeah, this is Dendera. Again, I just wanted to show you some of these images because they're so beautiful, and you can see them now.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Another one. Now here you have Horus, and basically he does tell Osiris he must turn over and rise. And that's something so many people don't pick up—that this is part of the story—that Osiris is flat on his back, but before he is resurrected, before he resurrects, he has to turn over and rise, and you know that has so many implications, um, yeah, we need to change our perspective, right, the way we—it is—what are your thoughts on on Horus being being the one to tell him this?

Well, you know, the funny thing about these nets is they're always exchanging places and representing different aspects of, you know, and Horus can represent Mars, he can represent Sirius, and he can represent the sun all at the same time.

Yeah. Didn't use symbolism the way we we tend to want everything in a nice little box and put a bow on it and say that's what it is. Right? That's not even who we are. You can call me Patricia all day long, but I'm much more than Patricia, um, and I I think, you know, here we're looking at the son telling the father, because you know this again is cyclical, uh, it's time to turn over so I can rise basically.

Yeah. Yeah. I always look at Horus kind of like the, um, uh, the sequel of Osiris, you know, like he's he's he's the child of Osiris, and he's, uh, he comes back to finish the work of Osiris, you know, on some level, you know.

Yeah. And on another level, he's the new sun. So what if the sun has a superflare or a micronova, you know, maybe that's part of the cyclical event, and it's, you know, and then we emerge as something totally different.

Yeah. A great moment of enlightening, um, and it's funny because at Edfu and the building text, they actually speak about this this snake jumping out of the of the sun.

Yeah. Um, and that could very easily be, you know, a superflare or a m—yeah, coronal ejection and this pole reversal as well with him having to turn over.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's—I was thinking of the turnover part like that related to the Earth or to the sun itself. I used to do work at the Space Labs up in Boulder, Colorado, and and we were working on a—in particular we were working on a—it was a top secret project at the time, it's now public—it was known as the Advanced Composition Explorer satellite, and it's a it's a satellite that exists at a point called the L1 point, right between the where the gravity of the sun and the gravity of the earth is equal, so it just stays there in space, and it just monitors the sun 24/7. And part of what we're looking for is, uh, you know, coronal mass ejection, solar flares, but there was also, uh, you know, they tend to come out of the same areas, uh, for the most part on the sun, and and there's always a speculation of what were to happen if the sun itself were to flip, you know, and what would—what would—what would the the result be of that, you know, and, uh, so that's what, you know, I'm I'm I'm thinking of in terms of those terms, in terms of Osiris turning over, you know, that is so funny, I've never thought of the sun itself flipping over.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They they, uh, yeah, we we don't think of the Sun as, you know, we think of it is just kind of stable there, like spitting things out here and there and and but it does have its poles, and, uh, you know, there are times where it seems to be changing somewhat, but, uh, so far it hasn't flipped that we've seen.

So well, that that's good to know.

Yeah, right. How long have we been studying it? Well, yeah, not too long, so we gotta wait.

Yeah. Of course, the the main concern with it was always that, uh, excuse me, hang on just a second. I got my my dog let himself in my office, chewing really loud a snack that he found. Hang on just second. Come on. Sorry about that.

Yeah, uh, you know what the main thing we're we're always looking for with that satellite is solar flares, so that we have an advanced early detecting system, because if it was big enough, it could it could wipe out, um, all electrical systems on the planet and erase all digital data. And yeah, really cause havoc for us. And you know, of course, there's some speculation that that's happened in the past. And well, it has happened. I mean, like there was the Carrington event that happened in the 1800s. If if that were to happen today, uh, it would wipe out all all information we have stored digitally, all y—all electrical things, including cars and pumps and satellites, and they'd all be wiped out, and we would be back to Little House on the Prairie. We've been discussing that in the last couple of podcasts. Is there some sort of fail-safe? Is there some sort of backup?

No, not really. All the best we can do is an early warning system, so that we can—going to help.

Yeah, I mean, just so we could prepare—our military can prepare things to ensure that like, you know, people didn't start raiding farms and stuff, stealing all the food—food, you know, they could have some sort of an orderly, uh, response to it. So there are contingency plans, there are, but it's—but it's—but it would be, I mean, literally everything would be—everything that we are used to relying on would be gone. I mean, like, pumps that pump water to your house wouldn't work. No electricity. No electricity, no no transporting food that are, you know, based on—and there's, you know, there's some speculation that something like this, as well as, uh, you know, mass flooding occurred during that Younger Dryas time, and, uh, and the Egyptians were preserving the memory of that to some degree, and and we're trying to preserve, uh, you know, examples of of how life used to be, you know, prior to that collapse, and that, um, there's even a theory, which I subscribe to, that, uh, even the Valley of the Kings itself was originally just a a bunch of survival bunkers, you know, from that cataclysm, you know, they're all connected by animal and stuff, and that the pharaohs, the reason why they wanted to be buried there is they wanted to be buried close to where their, uh, their, uh, ancestors came out of that cataclysm—how they survived—that's where they came out of, and, um, and all those areas like the Serapeum and everything else were just—they were like storage—

Exactly. I've been saying it was a, um, seed storage device.

Seed storage. Exactly.

Yeah, a seed vault, like Svalbard.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so they—so all of that was just part of that preservation effort, which of course means they knew it was coming, because they had to have built all that prior to it happening. Yeah, and then it was a, you know, it was all preservation and and so yeah, the pharaohs would, you know, they—what makes more sense—that there was, uh, you know, a civilization before that that dug all that stuff out and, uh, then they they they went and survived in it and then came out of there or or that the pharaohs hired thousands and thousands of workers to to dig all this stuff out and then expected them all to keep it secret, because that's where they were going to be buried, you know. I mean, what would be the odds of that, you know, that they would actually keep it secret? You know, exactly. It was a it was a memory being preserved by the pharaohs, you know, of what what was. And you find that incorporated in different ways, you know, on some of the temples themselves, but even in the even in the tombs, you know, some of the tombs there in Egypt, uh, you know, there's depictions of things that, uh, certainly, uh, [Music] you know, weren't happening in Egypt at the time, but were being preserved from previous times, uh, like depictions of baby woolly mammoths on leashes and things of this nature. And you know, the Egyptians didn't know any woolly mammoths, you know, but you find it in some of the tombs, which means they're trying to preserve the memory of what was, uh, that had come out of that area. So I think, um, yeah, so much of what's in Egypt is is pointing to not only the past, the memory of the past, but then also a way to be in harmony with nature going forward, with probably with the hopes that we didn't wouldn't fall under the same cataclysms, or maybe at least that we'd be aware of it, so we could prepare for it again, for the future.

That's what I think, for sure, that they were leaving us all these messages so that we we would know when the time came, um, and that leads me to believe that there is a way to walk through this kind of like in peace amidst the chaos, um, yeah, and and part of that is remembering who we are, yeah, as as interdimensional beings.

Well, and you find too—I mean, not to take it too off subject—but you do find, you know, if you go to Peru, for example, in in Bolivia, where, you know, where they have the same types of—some of the same type of architecture that we find in some of the earliest places in Egypt—they also had these giant tunnel networks, you know, that were like survival bunkers, you know, so we find the same patterns happening on both sides of the Atlantic. And but Egypt was clearly the place of reservation.

Well, not only Egypt, you had Turkey that had all these underground cities.

Oh yeah, there are underground tunnels all over the world, uh, in Australia. I heard about these huge tunnels, one from the the southern, you know, the southern part of, you know, South Australia all the way to Oaro.

Yeah, um, you know, there's some—there's a lot that's going on, you know, worldwide that we don't know about. There's tunnels under the, you know, under the United States.

Oh, sure. Now there's there's modern ones, but that I've heard tell of, but like the Denver Airport.

Yeah. Well, there are tunnels all over Denver, I can tell you, yeah, living here. So but most people don't know about them, uh, I've been down in them. The, uh, our, uh, State Patrol uses them to transport around the city when there's, uh, big events—go—most people don't know about that. So—

Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they have them in Albuquerque too, so, you know, and I, you know, we all have heard, you know, tales of the tunnels, um, so and again, you know, I I do think—and the stories—even the Native Americans talk about coming out from underground.

Yeah, sure. You can breathe the air again.

Yeah, yeah. The Hopi in particular talk about a a last shaking of the Earth where they they came out of, and they were put down there by the ant people, and then they came out, uh, that's right after the shaking of the earth, you know, but but the Egyptian in particular seems to be—and there there's a lot of similarity by the way between the kachina of of the Hopi and the some of the neteru of the Egyptian. So—

Oh, it's so many similarities. Yeah, I lived in Albuquerque for a long time, and, uh, I just love that area, but yeah, there there's so many similarities worldwide with everything that I've experienced in Egypt. Yeah, but Egypt—Egypt seems to be like one of the main centers of preservation of that knowledge. I mean, it's preserved on the temples. Yeah, it's, uh, it's the whole—and it's all—it's all relative still to us today. I mean, it it's not, uh, it may seem foreign at first or or, you know, it's it's obviously a different language for people, but once you start immersing yourself in it and seeing it and and feeling it—and this is one of the things I try to stress with people—it's one thing to study Egypt in a book, it's another thing to go there and immerse yourself in the temples and to feel the energy in the, uh, and to to just be completely immersed in it. It's like, uh, you know, it's it's it's it's beyond words.

I was just gonna say there are no words.

Well, you know, they they created those structures—they're living structures. Yeah, um, and the even the way it's shaped—in all the sacred geometry—I mean, you know, it's frozen music basically. But so much within it that is interacting with you, whether you're aware of it or not. Being aware of it makes it a different experience, but it's happening no matter what, and it's it comes out in in your dreams, it comes out in so many different ways.

Yeah. I like to thank all those millions of tourists who are passing through there, you know, staring at their phones and not really paying much—it it's having an effect on them nonetheless—they are—it's re—I believe it's restructuring the water in in their bodies, the very molecules that they're made of—it's fine-tuning them back to what a human body should be. These structures still work after all these years. You just have to walk in and plug into it.

That's right. Well, in so much of—so like when the Templars went down there were doing research, uh, you know, particularly in the early 1200s, they tried to bring the knowledge—as much as they could gain at the time—the knowledge of what they were finding in in Egypt back to Europe. And so they—this is why they started building the the cathedrals, uh, in Europe, because they were they were trying to mimic the temples of Egypt, and the base—the idea that they were like a human body in in in the form of the of the architecture. And then they tried to—they didn't put hieroglyphs, but they put, uh, imagery, you know, icon imagery all throughout the cathedral in the same way that they were seeing in Egypt. And they even copied many of the same things, like the images of the young child Horus sitting on the lap of Isis, you know, that they just—they just reproduced that as Mother Mary and the Christ child, you know, um, but it was all because they were they were gaining these ideas from Egypt, and they're trying to find a way to replicate it in in Europe.

Black was Isis. A lot of them predate Christianity.

Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Now I want to know how did they even know about this to begin with, because it's been a thousand years since the collapse of ancient Egypt and start—and the life of Jesus—to the point where the Knights Templar are joining the Crusades to save the artifacts of the ancient world. How did they know what to save? How did they know what to look for? How was—like—yeah. There was knowledge passed down through certain Gnostic families. I mean, that the the Templars were formed through Gnostic families, and these Gnostic families, you know, a lot of the Gnostic tradition has its roots in the Hermetic tradition, and the Hermetic tradition was trying to preserve aspects of ancient Egypt's. So, um, you know, all you have to do is read the Corpus Hermeticum, and it's mentioning, uh, you know, Egyptian neteru in it, but it was—but there were there were certain family lines, and there were certain places of, um, Gnostic preservation. So one of them was in southern France with the Alans, but the Albigensians were also in communion with the Bogomils in in Bulgaria, and they were working with the Druze of Lebanon, and the Druze were also in contact with the Essenes, and the Essenes were traveling to Egypt all the time. So that—so that there was a network of these different groups that were out of the fray of, um, traditional Roman Catholicism that was trying to rule things at the time, uh, and they they were all working together, and they were all in communication with each other. So when the Templars, for example, the Albigensians referred to themselves as the poor of Christ, so then the Templars—they

Named themselves the Poor Knights of Christ, because they were they were they were really the extension of that. And so they they had their own oral histories and rituals, and uh, they were there were they were also in communication with cabalistic traditions and twah, like uh uh Rashi of tuah, who uh had a huge influence on St. Bernard, who wrote the rule for the Templars. But they would they were they were gaining this knowledge from these different Gnostic groups that were preserving uh aspects of this Egyptian history and tradition. And um, I mean people don't realize that there was the Egyptians had they were traveling a lot further than most people realize in Antiquity. In fact, that the the place where the very first cathedral was built in in in France uh which is it was which is St. Shain cathedral, which isn't too far away from Notre Dame Cathedral. On the earliest maps of Paris, there's that that site is actually um highlighted as there originally being a temple of Isis there. So you know there was however it had you know whatever that looked like at that time, I don't think it looked exactly like the what you find in Egypt, but there there was preservation Egyptian preservation taking place to a certain degree in France, and and the Gnostic Traditions were preserving the knowledge of that.

And so when the Templars were formed, you know, part of what they were set up to do was to go try to find this stuff and to make sure it didn't fall into the hands of the the Crusaders in the region who wouldn't understand what it was, and and that it wouldn't get lost by the Roman Church that was trying to to capture everything. So so the the and to the Templars this is an important part too, the region they were instructed to go to was the rosow region, which was this area was believed to be between Giza and Sakara. And of course, in Latin Ros Ross is rose and to's cross, yeah. So this is the real reason why they adopted the rose cross symbol; it was pointing to the rosow region of of Egypt. And this is also why on those Cathedrals, if you look at them from the air, they're a cross, but then they put the rose windows in them, which made them crosses, right, which was because they were trying to point to this region of rosow. They didn't know what rosow meant in Egyptian, but they knew that name was being passed down by you know the Coptic Christians and uh and you know the seans and you know some some of the other people that were preserving the knowledge of aspects of the knowledge of ancient Egypt that they came in contact with. So they heard rosow and they were like, oh, in Latin that's Rose cross, so we'll just adopt the symbol of the Rose cross, you know, but it was really that region, that rosow region that they were looking for in Egypt.

So basically the place of the first time place of the first time, that's exactly right, yep. So yep exactly. Oh, Paris, as you were saying that it reminded me that you know it was the place of Isis, parisis. Yeah, Paris, that's right. Yeah, Notre Dame really was just a our Lady was really just a recycling of Isis. Isis Isis became Sophia within the Gnostic tradition. Yes. Y so these Gnostic cultures, that's what they were looking to. So then then they made Notre Dame, our Lady was Sophia who was Isis. Yes. Yeah. And then they replicated that in the United States with the uh with the Statue of Liberty, yes, who is you know has the seven-pointed crown of uh of Sophia and holding the torch of light illumination to one hand. But that was really a recycling of Isis, which is why the um Statue of Liberty was originally created for the Suez Canal in Egypt. Yeah, that's right. And then it ended up because it was going to be an Isis statue type of statue, but as Sophia. And then um uh Broli, I think that was his name, created the Statue of Liberty; he he gave it to the United States instead, but but originally it was created for the Suez Canal in Egypt. Wow. So yeah, also a touch of Sashet, Isis uh Isis and Sashet are two aspects of the same thing. Yeah, and also represented this wisdom and knowing. Yeah, and the seven-pointed, right, our Crown, same same seven aspects of Up South, right. And of course, it was Pythagoras who studied in Egypt for you know for years and years and years and years, and he I I don't know what they say, like 20 years or something like that, but he you know he coined the term philosophy, which is really just pho Sophia or lover of Sophia, lover of wisdom. But Sophia was you know this aspect of of Isis. So same story. Yeah, yeah, always is. Yeah, fascinating.

Oh, here's a be this is a beautiful imagery, true. This is from Abydos, of course. Um, yeah, and yeah, here she is flapping her wings to that's right, bring that phallus back to life. That's right, the resurrection. Um, but you know in a way that relates to you know you know if perhaps this the Earth actually does come back into balance um and and you know some of the scenes I'm going to show in a moment speak to that that concept that is a sort of Resurrection. Um and you know one of the things well one of the things I discovered is you know our you know you've heard of our our North Pole, but we have an ecliptic pole. If the Earth were to come back and point to you know where it's supposed to um come up from that 23.5 degrees, it points directly to the C nula, that great wonderful eye birthing place in the sky. Oh wow, heavens. And it's it's it's wrapped in one of great foils, which I find fascinating. Um and this pops up in different Expressions all over the world uh and again why I think they are so focused on these circumpolar stars and coming back into balance. Um and that really is almost like the coming together the two eyes of Horus, he's you know it's the Sun and the Moon Moon you know the the seasons disappear and we come back into Unity Consciousness, Oneness. A moment of silence and then boom every you know we begin again with the new Sun um all possibilities. But you know they show this over and over again in so many different ways. And you know I think it was Freddy Silva that uh he believes that the kite bird, this is Isis is the kite bird, and you can tell because her name is there with the throne. Um he believes the kite bird was actually Cygnus um and that Cygnus was once alignment with the Orion um which you know we could talk the Assyrian but we won't do that now. Um but there's so much that relat that to a possible ancient Place uh where they had people come on our tour we can talk about it there. Yeah, and that's where they say the head was buried um at Abydos, the head of Osiris underneath the Osirion. So there's so many so many things that you could talk about on so many different levels. Here's another scene um uh this one from Dendera uh and this again is you know this is you you couldn't see this this imagery before, I always had to look at pen and ink drawings um and it's it's really just so beautiful. But I have the pen and ink too so you can see it a little more clearly. That's great. Um and I love that what's underneath that you have Bes and Bes and Bes could represent that moment of of Silence. Um but there the three three figures under the bed, Bes is the one on the far right. Yeah, he's yeah, thank you Alen. Um and then you see the two serpents and it's sort of like uh the two watch it in necked big thank you. I was yeah the Kundalini energy um and there's Toth holding the eye of um full Consciousness. Ah, but he's not a baboon, no, he say the he said is the the Eis wisdom from above. Usually when he's holding the eyes in the form of a baboon except on the ceiling at Esna, and I do have that picture because that's he's holding it when we're in full Consciousness. Um and I think that's this again is representing that moment of silence before you know Isis brings him back to life again um magically in that moment of silence. Wow. You'll see it, we'll see it again. You see it here with this again this is the raising of the Jed pillar. Yeah, the moment of silence is spoken here because when you see the Jed and it's perfectly erect underneath it's on a sled and that's because it's not moving of its own accord. This is telling us this is a moment of silence, a pause. Um and you can relate this too Sekhmet's a great part of this whole story. We talked about solar flares and you know she is the fierce rays of the sun, right. And you know when when Ra thinks she's going to destroy everything, she's bloodthirsty with rage again because we've fallen out of mod um and he he basically turns the water into wine, the Nile into wine and she get gets drunk and passes out for 3 Days. Um those three days of Silence uh that reflects in our solstices in in an annual year um and even during the day at at uh noon and at midnight we have the perception that the sun stops moving for a few moments again. So it's it's funny how they reflect so many of these Cycles. Um but here again this is famous, it's at Abydos uh in the Seti I temple. And if this is Seti I, all the imagery is him, he he actually was um came from the military, this he he comes after the whole Akhenaten debacle, a whole a whole podcast in and of itself, but he he comes from the military, 19th Dynasty, and he has to prove he has the right to rule, so he buils he builds the structure and the symbolism is all about him performing his his headset, his head to prove that you know he has brought the power of the Naro down to earth. Um so he's assisting Isis to you know raise the pillar um which can be the axis of the Earth because it is at 23.5 degrees. Yeah, that's right. And what can you say about the Osirion? That's right underneath Abydos and they say that they had to start building off to the different direction because they found the foundations of the Osirion. Well the Osirion like I mean below water level, I think it goes down like 50 feet or something. I mean it goes pretty far down and stories. Yeah, yeah. I mean I always inter the uh I mean the the Osirion to me looks like a a a some sort of a processing plant. I mean it's uh it's almost uh to me uh it appears that this is where they were collecting some of the raw materials that they could extract alchemically the Essences out of um because there's the the water there has a has a unique quality. I don't think they know exactly where it's coming from uh and the um and the you know we talk about the uh when we when we see when we see uh Isis as a bird on uh on Osiris's phallus that she's created to raise him. Um you know one of the when you extract out the the there's these special salts that you can extract out from that water and it's and it looks like even even According to some of the Egyptian stuff it alludes to the seed of Osiris or the semen of Osiris. It's because it looks like semen when you extract it out. It's not semen obviously. The Alchemist called it the seed of nature or the semen of nature for the same reason because it looks like you know it looks like it's uh um you know ejaculation you know and it's and it's but it's but it's really what is is the the special salts that they were trying to collect. And I think this is part of what they were baking into the breads uh to to eat that really the origin of the communion um and it's because it had it had tremendous health benefits to it and uh I don't know exactly how that would necessarily tie us in with the pillar but uh um that we're looking at but it but as far as the Osirion goes, I think that's where they were processing a lot of this stuff and I think they then moved that up into Abydos. There's certain rooms in Abydos where uh I think some certain chemical properties were taking place there to do these extractions. Interesting. Yeah. But I don't Patricia anything else you want to say about the Osirion? I didn't mean to interrupt you there.

Well, no, it's quite all right. We don't know what it was used for um and that that's an interesting take on it. Um I have cross-sections. I was a member of a team, a Russian team that um that has gathered together many researchers and are studying the Osirion and it includes a professor um from Middle Egypt um and they've been studying the water. One of the interesting things is underneath, way underneath the Osirion, they have what they call ancestral water and this is water that that doesn't move, you know, it's not stream Fed, so it's considered by those who study this kind of thing to be incredibly powerful. Um I know a woman named Maria Wheatley who uh does a lot of this work in the Avebury Stonehenge area um in uh in the UK and she speaks about these kind pockets of water as like being the places where the world's Elite want to build their castles basically because it's such a powerful Dynamic. Um but not only that, it has several other waters that feed so you know they used to think it was you know Nile River water. Well they as you said they don't really know, but it's some of the water is coming from the mountains and some is coming from the other direction um and it's funny one side of the Osirion they they measured the temperature and it's a different temperature than the other side. Um but I've seen a floor plan where you see those stairs going down and if you put a picture of of the Resurrection scene, there's many papyri of Osiris and on top of a like a um platform with the two stairs going down and it's you know it's almost identical to what you're looking at in you know when you're looking at a cutout of uh the floor plan of what's going on underneath. So it could have been a place where maybe they were creating substances that they were using, but I think they were using that for um for these some of these ceremonies that they were doing to raise you know to move interdimensionally. Um it's just a feeling I have um based on you know this is a place of Resurrection, this whole idea of Resurrection. They did have processions from the old tombs, there was a second Dynasty tomb, I think it was the tomb of Jet um where they would have processions to the Osirion and perform ceremony um and uh I think it all had to do with this this concept. Do you think they were bathing in it at all, like almost like a like a Mikvah? Like a Mikvah? Well, that it very possibly um purification um they you they were doing these ceremonies without a doubt. I love that Elti, I know you know the the whole Nut the E story um she is the water for healing and uh in the village and uh from the villagers said it worked. There could be a natural spring down there too, you know that it could be coming out of you know and that could have been seen as a gift from the underworld or or or something you know that uh you know it's hard it's hard to do but well it considered ancestral is considered primordial water you know in a way, so it's a return to the primordial state of being pure consciousness. Yeah, so many there's so much research that needs to be done um to fully understand the depth. I think I think it it really it's powerful and and Patricia what's your thoughts on the the the uh the the Flower of Life carvings on there? You think that was a later Thing by some Pythagoreans that came there visiting?

Yeah, that's exactly what I think. It's not laser, it is red ochre or red drawing. Um you know we we know people that that did climb up and while I was there and take a closer look at that and you know it was not us, if anybody's listening, but they did take a closer look and it is just red ochre. And if you have the right stencils it it's not difficult to create a Flower of Life. Perfection, I've done it. Um but yeah they do pretty much and Hakee agreed with this, it think it was a the School of Pythagoras that was it was um and uh not not ancient as right people want to believe. But the Flower of Life does show pop up in Egypt, it's it's uh yeah, so many thoughts on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You find it in Istanbul too, place exactly and India and yeah I found it in some of the most obscure places, it is every yeah I always I always just assumed it was some of you know Pythagoras or some of his followers. I mean he he was schooled there you know so it would make sense that uh uh his his followers would come back there too to follow in his footsteps and maybe did you he the story I heard this story I I and I read it somewhere that Pythagoras came to Egypt to learn everything and he went to the priest and the priest said ha they told him to go to India to learn discipline and then then come back and maybe they talk to him. Yeah, I always think you know and I heard that they did this a lot that you know they wanted they wanted people to understand and learn the basics before they would actually sit down and sure makes sense, makes perfect sense. Well and then Pythagoras replicated that too with his own school where he had he had different levels you know and today we think the Greeks yeah right but uh yeah and and the Romans as well I mean so you know and there you have Greece and Italy covered so this knowledge spread. So what do you have what do you have depicted here? I see you got a dual duality of Consciousness being depicted.

Yeah, I'm showing this again famous image um of Toth holding these two staffs and it's basically the Lotus and Papyrus staff and it's the different crowns of Egypt on each either two exactly um and this imagery you see in all the temples and people tend to miss it but they're talking about this energy that you know it represents so many different things. Yeah, but I also as I said right and left brain Consciousness and the idea was to bring you've seen the crowns where they had the Cobra coming out yeah um headdress, but if you look at the top of the crown you'll see it doing this sine wave pattern across the two hemispheres of the brain sort of uniting and connecting them um and I think that's the expression we're looking at, this this ability to come back into Oneness Unity Consciousness. Well and this is the you know this is also the origin of the caduceus that you know that uh is normally associated with Hermes but you you also find this on the outsides of the doors of most the temples in Egypt too. They you'll see them going up the sides of the doors on either side. Yeah and yeah it's really the in a sense it's the spinal column and then the the energy going up the spinal column to the crown exactly. Well and here we have it yep right and of course Toth is Hermes right exactly in Greek exactly right um Mercury in in Roman that's right exactly yeah gets around yeah um and here's another image here's you know Horus being the outcome of the whole Resurrection yeah and uh you know these big squares these boxes um have come I've come to realize are known as birthing boxes. When you see them on these boxes these are expressing the potentials of new Cycles, New Life, new you know New Beginnings. Is that a lion on top of there? That is a lion and they have several of these depictions. That's great and it's again having to do with the fertility of the moment um and then she gives birth to Horus. But this I I just love the fact that they clean these images. I yeah fortunate to be able to go to these temples as often as I do. So and here's as we talked about the other aspect here we see and this is at Abydos um and it's on the wall uh it's on the other wall um to the other side like if you turn around you'll see these images of Horus wearing the double crown and here he is on the Papyrus filler much like you see him on the ceiling of Dendera um and it's basically giving birth to Divinity, it's moving into that next next stage of Consciousness. It's great. And it's also strangely in the building text at Edfu they talk about you know when when the flood waters recede then you find the bird flying to you know to sit on the Papyrus or the Reed you know and I relate that a little bit to the Noah story. The Noah completely as well as this idea of Horus in that moment of silence of complete you know Divine Consciousness. Well and then again from an alchemical standpoint even in the Noah story you seen you seen you seen this you still you still see this the the the same three levels of extraction because you have uh you know the Earth is obsessed with its physical senses. Along Comes a flood that's water and digestion right Noah lets Birds go into the air and that's distillation that's where you gain knowledge right and then and then he lands on Mount Ararat and makes a burnt sacrifice to God which is the Fire cination part. So it's the same it's the same progression that we find in the story of Osiris um and that corresponds to these alchemical main alchemical operations and it seems to be a a knowledge of from Antiquity from that primordial time you know that was passed down and being preserved D in in different ways and different myths but uh but alluding to the same ideas. So yeah beautiful beautiful. Yeah and this is from Edfu and here again you see the Lions and they call this this is Horus in both you know he's he's in human form with the hawk head with the double crown sitting on the throne and in the other image as the bird sitting on what they call the Royal birth couch. Fascinating. Yeah really interesting. Um yeah and again I'll I'll also relate this to the Ark of the Covenant you know the the this whole concept how powerful this moment is. Sure um and we talked about this you know the these kings that have performed these rituals um even if it's just simp IC now this is Ramses from the Luxor Temple right but that Temple is to show the Divinity of the king um portray this this as well as everything that Schalla Delitz tells us about pattern being patterned after man you know the body of man right and so much more. But this whole idea you know that here he is sitting in his power you know on the throne in this moment of silence um is it's just very powerful. Now what's your thoughts on uh you know I've heard it said that there's some people believe that particularly at the Ramesseum uh where there's you know these giant statues of of uh said to be Ramses but there's some there's some people that theorize that those statues could have been actually much older.

Oh absolutely, that Ramses just put his name on him. He put his name on and again it wasn't him it was the priests right he's a figurehead. The power behind the throne was the priesthood especially after uh the Age of Taurus we move you know we we fall completely into form and this is when the priest of Amun begin to take control right and this is why Akhenaten fled you know he was brought up as a priest he studied to be a priest and then his brother dies and he's like ah dear in the headlights wasn't let the the priest corrupt what he knew to be true right and so yeah no absolutely Ramses had his name on everything. Um I think I saw his name on a female statue was if that anything but yeah no um and and that has to do with Aries, you pointed that out you know Ramses the names you know all the Ramses Kings you know they are you know Aries says I am and you know Ramses said I am everywhere I this I built this I am this right without a doubt um you know the hidden meaning is they were staying in line with you know the dynamic of the age that they were in. Sure which is fascinating and of itself yeah for sure. Well and I know there's even talk of you know there were certain temples that were were disassembled and then reassembled to to be more in line with the with the age that they were living in at the time you know the Aries age and uh definitely yeah underneath Karnak is a is a Temple dedicated to the bow um and they literally had to move everything because of course the alignments were off correct. So there's temples below temples below temples at every and we find a lot of foundation stones are actually blocks from other temples that have been turned upside down right placed in the ground like a seed yep the key ston Seed St seed stones for sure amazing yeah it is amazing. So I can't get enough of this Dynamic I know but there's again Osiris and I mean Horus rather in his shrine on the sled you know soar represents that moment he's also in a shrine on that side of the wall um at the Seti I temple and soar is that moment of silence um I wish I had brought there is the picture when you see him being pulled um on the boat um and he looks like this pregnant blob you know with with something in his pouch um oh gosh oh yeah yeah I think know I know what you're yeah in a way it it represents winter solstice but it also represents that moment of silence uh probably where we get the word sacred soar sacred yeah yeah that's Sakara Sakara too y exactly yeah place of soar yeah and here's the Cats Eye Nebula um I just think it's fascinating that we would point to this amazing uh place in the sky yeah that moment W and this this is the the you know it after you see the raising of the Jed you you get to this end you see the Bennu that you mentioned which is that um but here you see the head of Osiris it's the fetish of Osiris on the which we also see in the barks um and this is shown all over Egypt uh and I just find it you know almost like you have this erect pillar pointed to maybe the ecliptic pole and underneath have you've heard of the churning of the milk scenes yeah um this reminds me of this this understanding of how you know things are moving in dual directions um in the circumpolar stars in the heavens yeah and there it is at Dendera yeah honestly right same concept. Now what are your thoughts of oftentimes they'd have those boats you know even on the sled with within like a and then like a the inner sanctum uh uh you know box usually where they would keep one of the Arks on that sled you know on that boat too and it's I don't know if they're just trying to depict you know that it had traveled from elsewhere and and was brought in to Egypt or or or what I don't I don't that part I don't understand but it's depicted all over the place.

Well, I think you know like the one I'm showing now this is uh in the entryway as you go back to that big Osiris room um at Abydos um and there's one on one side I'll have the the picture of the one on the boat on the other side um but here you know you can see it's on the sled it's on a box it's not moving and yeah I agree with you this is an Ark of the Covenant this is representing this powerful powerful device right um it's it's holding the head or effigy of Osiris yeah so it's representing that moment of still Stillness in such a way it's it's you know it they're celebrating it um and of course that's the moment when you know we see the images at

Edfu, but where Harris kills Set. Set is chaos, you know, he stops the chaos. Um, and in a way, you know, he—I think it's funny that—well, it's too much to now—but Set is in the form of the hippo, which is sort of like Taret or Epit, who is in circumpolar stars, as this whole expression of the big and little dipper. Um, is he stopping the spin when he when he kills Set, that being the chaos, right? Um, it all sort of comes together. Um, and Set is basically Spirit, Set in form, yeah. Um, and he wants out, as we all do. He is Divinity locked in three-dimensional physical perception of reality. Right. You don't have to say right, but no, it's just I'm I'm following you with it. It all sort of makes sense to me. You know that head of Osiris, too; it reminds me of, uh, you know, anytime you have the the head, it it's it's kind of like the the main point of Consciousness contact, you know, on some level. And uh, in in in uh, Alchemy, of course, one of the first stages is uh, you you create something known as the kaput morm, which means the dead head, is literally what it means. Wow. But it's it's the uh, it's the first uh digested nature that you needed to extract things out of. And um, there's even a a correlation there with uh, John the Baptist, and he baptizes like a priest king, and then he he gets his head cut off, you know, and it's it's uh, he he does the baptism by water, and then he gets his head cut off, in the same way that in alchemy, you know, you you do this digestion, which was considered a baptism by water, and then you get the kaput morm or the dead head, but out of that dead head is what you're extracting all the all the Essences out of. And so wow, you know, I don't know if that it has some similar resonance with what we're seeing with the head of Osiris, but it's almost like the head of Osiris is being held up as like a totem, you know.

Yes, exactly. I I yeah, that's fascinating. Yeah, I this whole image has always fascinated me. [Music] Um, yeah, and and yeah, that you point out that this is just that moment of pure Consciousness, prial, right? It's beautiful. And then, of course, this is on the other wall, um, right, you know, opposing it, and also that beautiful Shrine with the uh, I call it the exploding cobras, but they're again when they have that, they're saying this is a Sacred Space, is a Divine space. Um, and you have this neset bark. Um, and again, you see this in all the temples, but not nearly as as beautiful as this. Yeah, that's beautiful. And uh, there is the head of Osiris again. Um, and yeah, I I again, this this is an arc of the Covenant without a doubt, right? Powerful moment of potentiality. Um, and back to Dendera, but yeah, you know, this expression of The Winged keer Beetle is also a powerful imagery of the new beginning, that you know, the new day cycle, and you find that under the that big arch as you're going into the Temple of Hathor there at Dendera. Y Hakeim said it meant you're entering a place that answers all the secrets of the universe, all all the mysteries of the universe. Yeah, when you see the underbelly of the Scarab as you look up. Yeah, that's right. Now it's interesting, you know, the those flying scarab beetles, you know, that's also been pointed out that they their their body mass is is too large for their wings' spin, and so they really shouldn't be flying, able to fly, but they're kind of like it's it's almost like a some sort of levitation illusion to levitation of some kind. Yeah, it's going on there, too. Well, there's that Russian uh scientist who said that uh, they had the ability to hover uh through magnetic, you know, electromagnetism. Yeah. Um, and again, I don't know how real that was. I remember seeing. Yeah, I don't know either, but it's interesting. Fascinate. Well, look how bees use, you know, the queen bee uses electromagnetism to uh, you know, control, you know, keep order with all the worker bees, right? Right. You know, they they harness the forces of nature. Um, and you know, we have that ability; we just lost the senses that, right, those forces, you know. And then I I point this out because it's also, you know, this is also the Harvest, you know, Horus; it's also talking about, you know, planting the seed and nurturing the, you know, the seed and uh, so that you have this Great Harvest, which is what that moment was all about, right? You know, uh, and then you Reed, right, the Earth. Yeah, and here you go, Allan. Um, the name of Osiris with the eye. Um, I it's to me it's just so beautiful, but it also points out, you know, this name translates as the seed of the eye or the place of the eye, so you know, he's he is the green man, he's agriculture, he's he's us, he's the Earth, but he's also our Consciousness. Yeah, that's right, on this journey, the pineal gland, the seat of Consciousness. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the throne. Interesting. And Isis is that throne, and you know, this is this is the masculine and feminine um, moving on this journey together. Um, this is this is—it's some point we have to—Have you been to Esna?

I have. Yeah. Yeah, they they've just been cleaning it all up; it's it's it's beautiful there. I love this Temple. Um, and this I I couldn't believe it when they finally cleaned this image. I, you know, to me this image speaks to everything we've been talking about. Um, because you see, you know, how the eye, the different fractions of the eye represent the stages of the Moon, you know, 14 stages waxing and 14, you know, waning and 14 stages waxing into fullness. Um, I have another image here that actually shows to—here he is with the eye as this full moon expression of Consciousness. Oh yeah. Um, and I just find it absolutely incredible, you know, it it literally is telling the story we just talked about; it's the resurrection of Consciousness itself. Um, and there's Osiris, you you have him here all the way over there wrapped in his own Wings when we are in that, you know, just after that new moon stage, right? Yeah, it's a beautiful image. And then Hakeim, he always used to say—he made us say—Yakini Yakini. Um, and he said it said, May you be protected by the power of your positive Essence. Oh, you know, I only got to meet Hakeem once, and that was in 2011 when I was there uh, in uh, late October, early November 2011. Had to be before then because he passed in 2008. 2008. Yeah. Oh, maybe it was before, maybe it was before, maybe I'm thinking of that I'm thinking of that earlier trip. Yeah, so it would have been it was it was 200 2007 then. It would have been there you go. Last time I saw him. Yeah, yeah. I saw I saw him in 200—I met him in 2005; that was my first trip, and then I I went back in 2007. We had a reunion tour—my suggestion—where he actually came out of retirement and came on the whole journey with us. It was amazing; it was absolutely incredible because we would see, you know, the keepers—he hadn't been at these structures, you know, in Upper Egypt for years—and the keepers would come out of the sites with tears in their eyes, and he would have tears in his eyes, and you know, the love that they had for him was just so huge, and the love he had for each and every sight um was incredible. That's great. That's the legacy of knowledge; there's no doubt about it. Yeah, yeah. It's hard when you you have somebody like that who's who's preserved so much knowledge, and then when when they they pass through transition, it's like a huge loss to humanity. Well, because I didn't get to ask all the questions that I wanted to ask. Yeah, you know, I'm fortunate, I am blessed to have spent as much time with them as I did. I did go back again, and he invited me to stay for for uh, you know, almost two weeks, and I stayed—it like one of the relatives had a bed and breakfast in the village, so I, you know, wasn't much to speak of, but I was so happy to be there. Was in Bliss. Yeah, waking up with the Sphinx and then walking over to the the uh the house; he'd always be sitting outside in front of the house having his coffee, and we would just sit there and talk, and just an incredible man. Um, but uh, so yeah, so well, this has been a great this has been a great podcast. I think it's it's just a fraction of what we'll cover on the on the trip itself, on the tour, if people want to go on the tour. Yeah, I think I think it's going to be a pretty incredible group; we already have a quite a few people signed up for it. I know there's more that are signing up, uh, and yes, there's lots of inquiries. We have a wonderful group forming, great people, um, and they're all excited, as am I. So yeah, but there's still obviously there's time to sign on, and um, you know, you do want to reserve your space, uh, because you know, the hotels can fill up quickly, and we want, you know, you want to make sure you can be with us, but uh, yeah, it's going to be—it's gonna be great. I'm I'm really excited, Tim, especially after these this time talking with you; there's so many aspects that I hadn't thought about before.

Well, it's great, I and I think, you know, as people go on the tour, it's one of the beautiful things about our tour that we're going to do is we are bringing this knowledge of true knowledge of the mysteries of what people are being seen. I mean, a lot of people can just go on a tour to Egypt where they're going to get a general, you know, a really General uh interpretation of what they're seeing, and uh, they're not really going to, you know, they're just going to see the sights without without really getting the soul or the spirit behind them. And and I think what we're trying to do is really introduce people to the to the soul of these sites and and to the real meaning that's that's, you know, at least some of it, what's going on there. You can't you could spend your entire life in one of the temples and probably still not get it at all, but but we could at least give you so much more than you're going to get from a normal tour. And uh, so that's I'm I'm really excited about it. Beautifully said, you're absolutely right. And you know, the the beauty of coming with people of like mind, um, where, you know, what what I find with these groups when they come is they are they they see sides of Egypt that, you know, we sometimes don't see—even when younger children come, I'm always amazed at what they they run around and point out, you know, things that we may not be looking at with our eyes suddenly come forward. Um, but people bring their their perspectives and their views, and uh, we have a lot of aha moments just with the members of our groups, and every group creates their own magic, you know, the doors get unlocked that normally on our aren't unlocked, you know, it's it's funny how, you know, just some small thing happens, and we get experience something that you don't usually get to experience. So yeah, it's almost like uh, you're entering into Wonderland, you know, from pal through the Looking Glass. I mean, you're going into a new world where you're just being bombarded with with things that are speaking to you in ways that you don't normally have things speak to you, and and you and you you come out of it uh, you know, with a—it stays with you for the rest of your life; it impregnates in your Consciousness and and uh, I just can't, you know, speak, you know, it's it's it's something that every person should do at some point in their life, in my opinion, is is at least go and experience uh some of what's there. And it's not just the the learning of the ancient Egyptian uh mythologies, but it's also just the the feelings you get while you're there. I mean, these temples were built to be transformative and uh, on many different levels, and having experienced them, you come out of them a new person, so it's very exciting. Said that better. You're absolutely right. And I'll just quickly say that after we had a group that was here last January where we had a a zoom meeting uh two months later, and they all said exactly that—that they came home with just all this this new way of looking at everything, and they couldn't even communicate with their friends and family for six weeks because they—it was just—they they didn't have the words to describe what it was. Yeah, I usually try to warn people that, you know, usually the last day of the tour, like you know, now you're going to be going home, and you're going to had all these incredible experiences and seen all these things that shouldn't exist, and uh, and you're not going to know how to really talk about it with the people back home who are living their mundane lives, so you know, stay in contact with each other so that you can you you can have a network to uh to discuss these things. Well, you know, we do create a telegram group where we can communicate during the tour, share photographs, um, and even let people know that oh, you know, we're going to sleep in an extra 20 minutes, but we start it for that reason, and then they keep it going, um, and they tend to meet up at different places in the world. It's really—you're absolutely right; those connections sometimes last a lifetime as well. Yeah, that's right. It's exciting. Yeah. Well, great. Well, I I appreciate this opportunity to talk with both of you today; it's been a great conversation. Thanks very much. Thank you.