Transcription
Hey, Boys and girls, ladies and gents, welcome to another episode of Clutch Conversations. It's your boy Mike back at you again live on a Thursday night. What up? What up? What up? Welcome to the show, man. Appreciate everybody sliding through tonight, man. It's going to be a real dope episode.
But before we get into the episode, make sure y'all show my lovely wife Takar some love in the comments. You know how we do, man. She always holding us down, man. Uh, definitely show us some love in the comments. And don't stop there. Be sure to show the channel some love as well. Hit that like button. Hit that subscribe button and hulk smash that notification bell so you can get notifications each and every time we drop a video here on the channel, man. We appreciate the love. We appreciate the support.
Uh, let's take care of some housekeeping stuff, man, before we get into it. Uh, so make sure you following us and finding us everywhere you can, uh, follow us. Check us out on Morph Market. Uh, check us out on Instagram. Two pages, Herp Collectors, Herp Collectors Network. Make sure to check out both of them. Uh, check us out on Facebook as well. And definitely check us out on your favorite uh, audio podcast platform, Clutch Conversations, and all shows on the Her Collectors Network uh, can be found on major podcasting platforms like Apple Podcast, Spotify, all that good stuff. So definitely check us out there. We appreciate the love and we appreciate the support.
Speaking of support, man, make sure you're supporting both these organizations, US Arc and US Art Florida. The link for both organizations can be found in the description of the video. Definitely get your membership. If you don't have a membership, drop a donation. Whatever you can do uh to show support for both these organizations, man. Even if it's nothing more than spreading the word, spread the word, man. make sure everybody knows about both these organizations and how they can help and how these organizations are helping us. Uh definitely check that out. Link in the description.
Also link in the description for the double clutch Patreon me the homie Matt from Ebony and Ivory Reptiles. Uh Big Time Family Vibe, man. Um we got some stuff coming up. So definitely uh stay tuned for that. Uh check that out, man. And um tap in with us, man. Big fun. Big fun. Big fun. And then also make sure you tapping in with Phenom Precision Genetics. Yeah, the homie Charlie from shedtesting.com uh linked up. Got a whole gang of folks, man, doing big things in this uh genetic uh testing space. Lots of stuff to come. Uh definitely start uh paying attention to all that stuff and all the stuff that's going to coming out. For right now, go to www.shedtesting.com shedtesting.com uh to continue to submit your sheds to uh to that team and check it out.
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Big shout out to the sponsors, man. Appreciate the support. The homie Justin from Armless Angels Ball Pythons. He just dropped a picture of the chat in the chat of that hypo Pompei. I know it's head Gstrike, but it might be head genet. Uh it might be head DG as well, man. If you haven't seen that snake, definitely check it out, man. man is super dope. He got it posted on his IG. He got it posted on his Facebook. Uh just post uh just dropped us a picture of updated one uh since it last shed, man. That thing just getting better and better and better, man. The homie is working with some real heat. Of course, the homie from what Morph Construtors, he working with some real heat. And I heard that dude Justin Kabila working with some heat, too. I don't know. Y'all tell me, man.
Let's see who we got in the chat tonight. We got the homie bro. What's good Herp Collectors Network represent? appreciate you coming out. Double clutch Patreon representer as well. What's good? What's good, Marcel? What's good, homie? Pharaoh's forbidden. What's good, homie? Slate bro, what's good? What's good, homie? Hey, hit me up, dog. Hit me up. Uh, appreciate you coming out, homie. Let's see. We got Dwight the pie man in the building. What's good? What's good, What's good? See who else we got. The homie Ashman. Mr. Malice himself, the granite of granite. What's good, homie? Appreciate you sliding through. See who we got. The I can't even read. What? The Nameless Collector. Okay. Okay. Okay. Uh, what's good? What's good? Appreciate you coming out. JJ, what's good? What's good? Appreciate you coming out. Autumn Leave Exotics in the building. Appreciate you coming out, man. We got all kinds of people in the chat. And of course, we got Daniel Barry Sports Highlights in the building. What's good? What's good, homie?
We gonna stop it right there. We going to kick the intro, then we'll be right back with the show.
>> Baby, won't you listen to me? I got that flavor. I know you're dying to be. I ain't no dancer. Just got some hip in my feet. Now throw your hands up. You bring the lighter. I got the fuse. You make fire. I'll add the view. Just watch the show. Turn the heat up. We know who looking like this. For real. We know who looking like this. We know who looking like this. For real. You know who looking like this. We know looking like for real. You know looking like you know looking like real looking like this. My stomach hurts.
>> TJ, what's up, man? What's up? What's up? What's up? How you doing?
>> How you doing, Mike? Good. And yourself, man.
>> Doing pretty good. Doing pretty good, man. Appreciate you coming on tonight. I know it's what probably like 3 something in the morning there somewhere around there.
>> Yeah, just quarter past 3. So early start to the day. Eh,
>> what time do you normally get started?
>> Um, I normally wake up between like 6:00 and 7:00. So I normally start working like 8:00. So um might just go back to bed for a few hours and uh then stand up and you know feed some snakes.
>> Nice. Nice, man. So how things been going? I was looking back at the calendar and it's it's been like two years since you've been on the show. Time flies, man. So, how have things been going?
>> Yeah, man. Things have been good. Uh, Snakes has been doing well. Um, we're just um basically, so, you know, our seasons are basically um the opposite to, you know, to European and um the American season. So, we basically now in the heat of our hatching season. So, the next few months we should actually hatch out quite a few clutches. So, um yeah. So far so good. We've had some nice animals come out and hopefully plenty more to come in the next few months. Eh,
>> that's what's up. That's that's actually what I wanted to uh get into tonight is uh kind of talk about what you got going on uh projectwise and clutchwise. I know behind the stage, you said you had like 70 clutches in the incubator.
>> Um, yeah, it's roughly uh so yeah, I think it's 69 clutches currently and then yeah, I think we'll probably have another uh 20 odd to close out the season. So I think we'll end up for like 90 for the whole year, eh?
>> 90 for the whole year. So what does that put you at as far as like comparison to to previous years? Is that high, low, right about the same?
>> Uh, yeah, it's more or less the same. Maybe a little bit less. Hey, around 15 clutches uh less than compared to the last two seasons. Um, so which is actually better you know in my opinion it's in hindsight you know it's much better to how can you say yeah over the years I'd like to um I wouldn't say cut down but I would like to just try and breed you know better and better animals every year you know so the main goal was to cut down a bit more in terms of the the clutches and try and up the the quality in a sense.
>> Okay. So, what are you uh like what's your strategy for cutting down? Is it just strictly breeding less or are there specific projects that you're targeting in terms of the cuts you're making?
>> No. And so, that's a bit of a, you know, difficult one because there's so many, you know, great projects. I think it's more just to be from the start, you know, especially when choosing old packbacks, I need to be more uh specific in what I want to keep back. And you know something which I actually realized in this in this last few weeks is you know I tend or I and I think a few other breeders as well you know like we tend to keep back animals which we don't necessarily need just because you get also attached to the animals so much you know so um I think it's just more in a sense of um being said more precise and streamline you know throughout uh throughout the year you know some stuff if you already have something which is growing out for for the season, you can maybe you know move it on and um you know keep keep the better animal or replace one visual um animal with something you know which is a double visual you know something like that.
>> Yeah, I think of a a lot of us struggle with that. I know I do. I'm just kind of holding back more than I really need to hold back, especially like with females and stuff. And like I kind of convinced myself in my head, hey, this girl, she's not as good as like maybe like her clutch mate, but she almost as good and she got some similar genetics. Uh, you know, the females don't always like to go all the time. So maybe now we got more opportunities to hit some, albeit lesser odds, you still got at least an opportunity to maybe hit something or something close. And so like I kind of justify it in my head that way and then end up with too many holdbacks.
>> Yeah, I think it's like you say it's a um I guess it's not a common mistake but I think we tend to you know at the end of the day we all say snake lovers you know so we tend to keep back things which is not completely necessary and I think we always try and justify it but I think if you if you look back sometimes at your projects and you see where you at you can how can you say redefine um some of your bearings and some of the can say the animals you have in your collection. So from my end, you know, it's like um I'm just trying to be more precise going forward. You know, it's not like I'm saying, you know, we would keeping back way too many animals, but I'll say like you just said, you know, sometimes you keep back something and you keep back a alternative or a um a double of a certain gene where it's not necessary, you know.
>> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Uh big time uh person to do that. Uh what project would you say you strongest in? And like scrolling down your page, you're working on a whole bunch of projects. So what project would you would you say you're strongest in?
>> Y. So that's a quite a difficult one. I must say like in terms of so the three jeans which is mostly in my collection now I would say is um desert goes clown and I'd say probably ultramore in the past it always been desert goes clown and pide um but over the years you know I've kept a little bit less pides over the last you know few years so um and then I'd say puzzle was also quite um how could you say quite heavy in my collection So I'd say those four genes in terms of you know the main recessives is in my collection quite broad and then of of course a few odds and ends of um you know like the sunsets and the um hypo and stuff like that you know but I'd say the main project is most probably like desert ghost is the most um how can you say common in the collection as well.
>> Okay. Yeah we can uh spin the block and and talk about desert ghost here in a minute. Uh but you mentioned ultra male as well. So talk about like the uh the route you going with your ultra male projects and kind of like what all you working into that that you're uh that you don't mind sharing.
>> Yeah man. So um of course you guys know about the the sunset ultramaros. So those are you know something which I'm really excited about for this up and cominging season. I should have um hopefully in the next two or 3 weeks I should have my first sunset ultramors um hatching out. So that's a a project which I'm very very excited about. Um we'll definitely explore um the ultramore puzzle project a bit more in the next this actually this next breeding season. Hopefully we'll should have some uh double visuals in that. And um yeah, just trying to think a bit outside the box in terms of the the Ultram project and in general. So, I made some interesting triple heads, which is Ultramore Sunset uh bait, which I think in the long run, you know, it's going to be either it's going to hit be a hit or miss project. Either it's going to work out great or it's maybe not going to work out, but um
>> what?
>> Uh Ultram Sunset Paint.
>> Oh, paint. Okay. Okay. Okay.
>> Yeah. So, they they triple heads. Um, so it is a bit of a a long shot and a pairing that you don't know exactly how it's going to prove out. Um, but yeah, let's see. And um, yeah, just in general, you know, try and trying to bring in bring out more contrast in the um, Ultram project. So, I'm leaning more to the darker route than uh, the lighter route currently.
>> Yeah, that's uh that's the route that I'm going to going with it as well is like leaning towards the the darker stuff. I think it's a lot of a lot of things you can do and like some really nice combos you can make with that darker stuff. Um, kind of on that ultra male palette >> to get some nice contrast and some real nice uh nice coloration in there. So yeah, I definitely think that's a smart route to take it. Are you working other recessives in Ultra Male? Um, just thinking of hand now.
>> Yeah. So Ultram is quite broad as well like I said in my collection. So most of the recessive that I'm currently working with somewhere you know it is going to intertwine again with with Ultramal. Um, so like tribe ultramors um here and there I'm doing also a few exantic ultramal projects. Um, which I think is which is actually quite a unique uh route to take. And um, yeah, so Ultramal I must say is quite a quite a large base in in some of my projects currently, you know.
>> Do you have hypo in it?
>> Yeah, I do. I do. So the crazy story about the the Ultramal hypo stuff. So, back in I think it was 2015 or 2016, I bought a female Mojave Ultram uh from from Justin and she turned she's actually the foundation animal for most of my Ultramal stock or I won't say foundation but she started you know my original uh double doublehead ultramal clowns and um after breeding two or three seasons with her offspring um I realized listen there's hypo floating around so that was actually quite a cool way. And then this past season um in 2020, what was it actually 2024, the 2024 season, I was able to prove out her to be 100% air typo. So that was quite cool to see where everything came in. Um, so yeah, Ultramal hypo stuff is definitely floating around in the collection. It's not a main main focus. Um, you know, I'm more focused on like um Ultramal, like I said, with the darker contrast jeans and other different recessives, but it's definitely floating around um in my Ultram stuff as well.
>> What ultramale hypo stuff did you did you hit? Did you hit the double or did you hit a triple working it with the clown stuff?
>> Yeah. So, I've actually made I think it was 20 23 if I'm correct. So, it's actually three years already ago. it. I made a super OD leopard Mojave Ultramal hyper clown and then then I've got a pastel leopard ultramar hyper clown male also in the collection.
>> So super OD ultra male hypo and clown. So basically acquired
>> uh yeah so basically
>> if you think about the
>> yeah basically yeah so um, you know, triple recessive plus um I think there were three incomplete code in mutations and if you include a super it will be basically four
>> yeah that's that's dope that's a powerful animal
>> yeah so that was a a really beautiful snake um she actually went to South Korea that year so unfortunately I don't have her anymore, but I've got a a siblings. So, this year I've got um Odie Mojave Ultram clown head hypo female, which also is gravid, and she was bred to the sunset Ultram. And um, yeah, man, I'm I'm quite excited about the Ultram Clown projects uh this up and coming season. Hopefully, we can have some like confusion, black pastel, red stripe, ultram clowns hatching hopefully in like March. um, you know, so some exciting times especially for the Ultram clown project uh this up and coming season.
>> Hell yeah. Hell yeah. So you mentioned uh selling some stuff to Korea. I know you've been taking like some trips >> um like to go to like Korea and and well maybe not Korea, I saw Thailand for sure. Uh so talk about that a little bit.
>> Yeah, so you know very fortunate last year. So the first time I traveled was um in 2024 you know I went to Thailand and then I went to Tindley Park there in the states. Uh really great experience you know um you know it's very different to you know to how we keep and how we do things, you know, across the across the world. um, you know, so I must say the Asian countries are really just so great to travel, you know, the people are really so friendly and so so open, you know, so um, yeah, it's just great, you know, man. I was lucky enough this this past um this last year when I was so it was a bit of a hectic trip. I did uh Thailand, Hong Kong and Japan in in one trip. So it was a um I think honestly I um I underestimated the trip a bit uh because I did 3 days in Thailand, 2 days in Hong Kong and uh 4 days in Japan, you know, and it was just heavy heavy traveling. Um, but the reason for doing it like specifically like that is just because it's so far to travel for myself in any case, you know, so it just made sense um, you know, to rather do a shorter trip from the different countries and do it one shot. Um, but yeah, man, it was really amazing, you know, especially um I enjoyed going to Hong Kong uh just because myself and the breeder who I work with that side has been doing business for around well 8 years, you know, this year it's the eighth year and um, you know, we had never had a a conversation in real life or even a you know, phone call, you know, so it was really cool to meet him and another great thing is, you know, animals that I've sent him since 2018 I was able to see again, you know. So, that's a that was a really great thing. And um, yeah, like I said, man, you it's just great to to explore these countries and see also how different it is to how we doing stuff and um how they doing stuff, you know, and um how their market presence is and how it differs from the US and our market.
>> how speak to some of that like how their market presence is and kind of like how things are going over there and like some similarities and differences that you notice uh with uh with like your area and even like the US, Europe, stuff like that.
>> So I think especially um, you know, like in those certain countries they're very like loyal to um a certain breeder or a certain supplier whether it's in Thailand, Hong Kong or Japan or whatever the the country is.
>> Yeah.
>> which I which I really like as well in a sense because it builds long-term relationships and trust with you know, the certain guys um and I just think, you know, the overall how they do things is is much different, you know, like for instance in Thailand they use a lot of um ambient heating or um, you know, they don't use any heating in a sense, you know, belly heat just because the humidity and the temperature is so high and um, you know, it's actually crazy to see how far um especially Thailand is, you know, in terms of certain projects. Um, I think I saw some of the best clown combos um to date actually in Thailand just because they've got completely different projects compared to what I'm doing and also what I've seen in in Europe and in the USA.
>> What was something that stood out in their clown projects? They had a few like nice carbon clown combos like spotnose, hurricane, carbon clown stuff. Oh, nice.
>> Um, yeah, those were really, really cool. And, um, even some like pixel clown combos and um, yeah, just like really broad different projects, you know, which was really cool to see as well.
>> Nice. Yeah, I would if you got a picture of that, I would definitely like to see that. That's pretty dope. That sounds dope.
>> Yeah, I've seen some pics off after the show. I must say it was was quite cool.
>> So, relative like I I don't know, maybe it's hard for you to kind of gauge this. So, um definitely feel free to say you don't know, but uh like kind of like relative to like the US and and Europe and and South Africa, like do you feel like they have like a pretty like large reptile community or ball python community or is it still kind of like the budding stage? uh in the places that you went
>> I think yeah, so I think it's quite quite broad and quite large um I think Hong Kong is a is a bit of a smaller community compared to the other two countries um but yeah, definitely in Thailand and Japan there's quite a quite a large um, you know, we say market presence in terms of certain breeders um I wouldn't say it's anything near to the European or the USA side but um I think it's quite, you know, how can you say quite far developed in in a sense where there's a quite quite a few larger breeders, you know, a few guys in Thailand are are producing close to 300 clutches as well, you know, also um, yeah, they're also doing some some big numbers and um they're also on the verge of actually starting to export which is which is great for those countries as well because then they get the exposure that um they actually need as well, you know, Because even us here in South Africa, you know, we don't always have the um luxury of how can you say having such a big market in a sense. So we rely on a really small pool of people here um or breeders in South Africa to you know, sell the animals. But I think it's cool to see to actually export the animals as well because and get some new new blood and more new genetics in, you know, which is a great thing as well.
>> Yeah, absolutely. I know on the kind of like opposite end of that spectrum, I remember last time you was on the show, you was talking about like the process of importing animals into South uh Africa and how extensive that process was and uh it it took a lot of time too, right?
>> Yep. Yep. So, um I mean for instance I I'm still busy with one import that I started at the end of 2020 what 2024. Um, you know, so I still don't have the animals. Um, unfortunately, you know, the timing was just not right. The the shipment should have been here in um December of 2025 but unfortunately the weather just didn't permit. You know, it was just too cold to ship out and the risk was just too large, you know. So this shipment most probably I have sometime March or April and then it will be almost uh yeah 20 months later since I I bought the the original animals, you know. So it's quite a quite a lot long time.
>> Wow. Yeah, that's a long time. Very long time. Uh so how long did you say you were um you were on on tour in the Asian countries?
>> around 10 days. E um with traveling I think it was around 12 days.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. I mean how many people you got how many people you got on your team?
>> Like who's watching animals and stuff while you're out?
>> Uh, yes. So I've got one employee with the snakes. He's really fantastic. Then I've got one employee for the rodents and somebody who's part-time helping me with like videos and a bit of the social media stuff. and then myself. So, we're a team of four. Um, so yeah, you know, it's a it's a bit of a difficult task if somebody leaves for either holiday or um, you know, for a vacation or some break. Um, but yeah, we make it work. You know, I don't want to also a huge team of people. I prefer keeping a smaller team and uh, you know, we just work closely with each other.
>> Yeah, that's dope. Yeah, I know. For me, just anytime I want to get away, it's always like a logist. You got to uh you got to plan the logistics of it to make sure everything in order, right? Cuz the animals don't stop animal.
>> No. No. I mean, like even this uh past um past time over Christmas and New Year, I mean, my my one employee took off the one who works with the snakes. And uh yo, man, that's that's where I actually realize as well, you know, like there, like I said to you earlier, there's certain projects or certain animals which I'm keeping back just for the sake of keeping. I mean, some of some of them I haven't bred in two or three years, you know, but uh you you just think it's a cool animal or she's a a very big female and um, you know, we tend to how can you say it's it's there's nothing wrong with it, but we tend to you know, keep stuff for no reason, you know. So, that's where I also realize, you know, I need to be more um specific. And like you say, the animals, it never stops, you know. Um, if you want to have Christmas, uh, it doesn't doesn't work like that. They first need to, uh, have their attention and then you can do your stuff, which is not a bad thing as well.
>> Yeah. Especially the rodents. Like you you got a little bit more leeway with the with the snakes, but the rodents, man, you got to stay on top of that.
>> Yeah, the rodents are it's a it's a different story as well, you know. So, I breed my own rodents. Um, it's just it's just much better just because I know what's going into the animals as well, you know, and and also to have that accessibility um, you know, to to get different sizes, you know, cuz we start off um our hatchlings on mice or ASF fuzzies uh for the first three to I'd say three meals and we start gradually changing them over to rodents. And it's just nice to have the different um, you know, sizes to your how can you say um, yeah, just to your capabilities or to you know, what you can feed as well.
>> Yeah, it's super convenient to have like your own supply and you can kind of go through there like you said man, pick out exactly what size you need. Uh, you can feed when you want to. Um, it's super convenient to be able to do that.
>> Yeah, it's a it's a big task. You know, it's like um, you know, when I fed So I actually changed my feeding um structure a bit. So after a year of age of the hatchlings or in general of the snakes, I actually stopped feeding them once a week. So then I start doing it every second week. And um, it's something I changed in the last 2 years. And um, you know, since I've been doing that, it's changed I can say everything in terms of the condition of my animals and also um I get less animals that go actually our feed. Um, so it's very interesting, you know, cuz we also feed quite a lot of frozen food forward. Um, so what I've seen in the past is, you know, you take out let's say 100 rodents and let's say for instance only 80 snakes will eat, you know, then you're left with 20 um defrosted rodents that you can't do anything with, you know, so now we now we feed our adults, you know, every second week and I must say the conditions of my snakes is still the same, it's remained uh the same or actually improved, you know um, I think this year, you know, we've had Like I said, 69 clutches and we only I think we on less than uh 12 slugs, you know, or infertile eggs, you know, which in my opinion is a a really great success ratio. And um, yeah, I just see in general my males don't go off feed in breeding season and uh the females condition just look better.
>> Have you seen like any kind of changes or noticeable changes in terms of the number from a ratio perspective uh or percentage perspective? Uh, same in terms of how many girls go.
>> Um, no. I just think what I've seen is it it seems like my clutches are actually like larger, you know, and um
>> and another thing is just um in general I think the conditions of the animals are just much better, you know. Um, I think indirectly the amount of rodents we still feed if you compare let's say over a 3 week or 4 week time period and so let's say in the past we used to do um like a a two week one week off system and then again two weeks. So basically in a a monthly period or four week cycle we'll feed them three times. So now we're just doing it basically twice but we still feed more or less the same amount of rodents. So what this means is when the females or the snakes do eat sometimes they prefer to have a double or even maybe a third one sometimes. So um indirectly I think it across the broad across the across the board it's much better um in terms of, you know, of my animals and also um, you know, giving them the right time also to um digest their food and also not give them so much strain the whole time to be digesting in a sense.
>> Yeah, absolutely. Because the whole digestion process is like a pretty like intense process that their body goes through whenever digest the rodent. I remember um a few years back like when I was first getting in uh Billy from Mutation Creation, he was talking about uh doing something similar. He was basically on uh every other week cycle with feed and stuff. And he basically kind of stumbled into that cycle because of a shortage on rodents. And so like he had to do what he had to do. And so >> he start feeding every other week and notice some of those same things that you were talking about.
>> I mean, yeah, even if I look now, you know, cuz if you see I mean, even if they're hatching, you know, they grow really grow really fast, you know. If you if you see again in a month's time, you know, they can I would say pick double the pick up double the weight they were, but they can grow really quick, you know. So uh what I've seen in the store, you know, I still have some females which is up to size within 2 years and some females which are a bit slower growers, you know, that's I think that's always going to be the case but I think going forward, you know, this is definitely what I'm um a strategy or my method that I'm going to adopt, you know, is trying to feed every bi-weekly in a sense and not um on a weekly basis especially with, you know, after the animals are um a year old or between one and two years, we'll probably start doing this method.
>> Selfishly, it helps with cleaning, too.
>> Yeah. But, you know, the snakes are always, you know, I saw this um this over this December time, you know, you clean one day and you think everything is fine. The next day you go and open the tubs, it's it's worse than the day before, you know. So,
>> the snakes know best as always, you know.
>> Yeah, you definitely see that a lot, man. you clean up and then boom, next day it's like dang. It's like they they like to I guess it's you picking them up and stuff like that and like just kind of like a little massage to them. It get them going but man it seem like they do that a lot.
>> Yeah. So and I mean most so I just keep my adult females my breed of females I keep on cocoa husk and the rest of the collection is all on paper, you know. So the cocoa husk is still okay, you know, you can do here and there you can do spot cleaning. Uh, but the paper is like a constant thing every single day, you know. Um, especially with the hatchlings because the tubs are a bit smaller, you know. So you just want to make sure they've, you know, got a good clean surface and clean base to work with as well, you know. So the paper is a different story, you know. That's everyday basis.
>> Why do you uh do it differently for your females?
>> I just so my breeding success on cocoa husk is just it's just better and and also just because I believe in breeding season you don't disturb the females and you try and leave them as as is. Um, so in general my my females just do much better on cocoas. My feeding response is much better. Um, and like I said, for breeding and then males and the rest of the collection, I like keeping on paper just because for my adult males, I've seen that they don't go so easily off food. And if they do go off food, we've got a different alternative to switch them over to, for instance, the cocoa husk. And um, and then the hatchlings and the grow arts and stuff I like keeping on paper just because it makes it easier for the next breeder or let's say if someone buys an animal from me to choose whatever they want to use. If they want to use cocoa husk um, you know, sawdust or paper or newspaper, whatever they've got the option to do it. But if you start, what I've just found is sometimes if you have everything on cocoa, especially if you starting from youngsters, um, it's really difficult for the next guy, if he wants to use paper or something else, for them to start feeding, you know. So if I if I leave them on paper, it just gives the the next guy the opportunity to do whatever he wants, you know. You can put them on coco or leave them on paper and the female response will remain the same.
>> Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense. That made sense. Hey, I want to take a real quick uh sponsor break. Uh we'll be right back here in a second.
>> No.
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>> Hypopuzle king. Big shout out to the sponsors. So, you mentioned the uh Sunset Ultram project. We actually got two Sunset Ultraons uh here in the chat tonight. We got uh Brandon from Nixon Reptiles and we got Stephen from Leviathan. Uh yeah,
>> you mentioned that as one of the ones you were excited for uh for this season. What else um is really like got you excited for this season in terms of projects?
>> That's actually quite interesting. So I'm actually going to today or basically I think it's going to be for you guys tomorrow. Uh, but this Friday we uh basically um doing a video about the top five projects which I think is going to be um, you know, have some huge influence on on the market or on the ball python game in this 2026 year.
>> Okay. So um, yeah, one of the jeans which I think is taking or a complex which is taking the the industry by storm is the granite granite type um, you know, um jeans. So I mean for everyone knows the cosmos and um, you know, voodoo and the malice, you know, the malice I think is another I'm probably butchering the name, but I think those are um you got it.
>> Yeah, Malice. Yeah. So I spoke spoke to Antoine you know other day. So I think uh I think those are great, you know, great jeans which I think is going to take the the industry by storm just because, you know, how these granite type they're very similar, you know um, if you even look at grim and um, all of these things the genes are very very similar but I think um, you know, how they interact in certain combos are completely different so I think that's one of the projects which I think or that complex is going to be quite broad going into this year. And then what's the other one? Oh, so I'm very excited about um Exantic Hypo stuff. Um, I think Exantic Hypo stuff is a a really great project going forward and I think long-term um, I think a lot of people are going to steer that direction just because, you know, Desert Ghost was a um a real big or is still a big gene, don't get me wrong, but I think it's lost a bit of the the hype over the the last, you know, few years just because everyone also, you know, went to that certain combination. So, I think Exantic Hypo is going to put a lot of traction just because um they're completely different to the Exantic DJ projects. Very similar, but completely different and just adds a different color palette to it. So, I think Exantic Hypers in the next few years is also going to produce um some amazing animals which we we're going to be very excited about for the next few years.
>> Gotcha. Yeah. Hypo pretty much anything excites me. Like I'm a big big fan of hypo and definitely a big fan of the the granite stuff too. Um, funny that you mentioned um Ash. I know a lot of people say Antoine. I always say Ash, but uh same person.
>> Uh Malice, man, that's it's a nuts Jean man. I I see why you call it the granite of granite. He got some really nice examples. And man, talk about somebody that's passionate about uh
>> about what they doing,
>> man.
>> He is, man. And like you ask him a question about something and then like >> he send you like all these pictures and just walk you through like the whole progression. All right. So this is this is this is this and it's all just laid out super organized. Uh, you talk to him on the phone about it, man. Super excited about it. Yeah, man. So I definitely see that Jean uh doing big things and going big places, especially with him uh steering the ship.
>> Yeah, man. I think so as well. you know, like you said, I think he's very, you know, very passionate about the projects and the certain or more than one project that he's working with, which is great. You know, I think um even like you said, Steven and Courtney of Leviathan, you know, I mean, um they've got some great content. I think they they're doing really well in terms of also, you know, furthering um our our market in general. You know, it's the same as with Justin. you know, Justin is a a great leader for our industry just because, you know, the stuff that he produces and how he portrays himself himself is is amazing, you know. So, I think going forward, you know, like you said, I think the passion will speak for these projects across the board. um, if the ultra more sunset granite type jeans, whatever jeans it is, I think if you passionate about the projects and um, I think that will also outplay in your in your jeans and or in your combinations that you make, you know.
>> absolutely absolutely uh do you feel like is anything out there is kind of slept on that's going to kind of make a splash
>> slept on? Um, yeah, that's a uh a difficult not difficult one but you I think um sorry I'm actually just checking here what um some of the other stuff that I wrote but um I think still sugar and um calico or you know sugar and calico is a gene which is a simple co-ominant gene stack or co-ominant gene but I think that gene is really underrated and I think when used in the right combos um it can really make a huge influence in in the combinations. So, I think Sugar and and Caliggo is definitely underrated gene in my in my opinion.
>> Yeah. What's uh what's an example of like some jeans that works well with in your opinion that really like pack a punch?
>> Well, what with Sugar or what?
>> Yeah. Or Calico. You feel like they're the same?
>> I do.
>> Yeah. Yeah. To me, honestly, like I still believe they are the same. I think there is um like the same thing as like Coruglo and Banana. I think there was different definitely two different lines in the start or two different originators. Uh, but in my opinion, you know, like they're exactly the same in terms of how they react, you know. So I don't see a huge um huge difference in them.
>> Gotcha. So what's some of those jeans you think they work really well with?
>> So of course um, you know, orange dream, uh black pastel, enti, yellow belly, um, even some of the clown combinations um, the only gene I don't really like too much in the the sugar combinations is just leopard just because I feel leopard kills a bit of the sugar calico interaction. Um, but besides that, you know, it's um sugar is quite broad. I think if you go even to I made some chocolate um I made a very nice female chocolate sugar yellow bit of hypo double DG paint and um that snake is like orange, you know, there's no OD or anything like that in and I mean it's basically just a very simple free code gene stack with the recessive and I mean the colorations of that animal is just just insane. So I think with sugar I think especially into the dark uh dark dark contrast animals it can work really well as well and then adding like I said orange dream and mandarin and stuff like that. I'm very excited about the mandarin project as well. Um, just because
I want to try in the next few years, or I'm slowly but surely doing that. That is like, not work out yellow belly and fire, but just get less of those complex animals in my collection and try and incorporate a lot of like vanilla, lace, and mandarin and gravel stuff. Stuff that's basically non-white supers, just to produce, you know, a good base of animals of those and almost do my pairings with no restrictions, you know, because sometimes you need to be careful with fire to fire or whatever, you know, in a sense.
Yeah. Yeah, you can definitely, uh, and I know with my odds sometimes, like if I run like yellow belly on both sides, I mean, there's a chance of ivory, uh, just with one copy on both sides, but me, man, I probably hit like 50% of them.
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, even so, I mean, I was ex- I'm exactly the same. I made a pairing for of a pastel loop pastel leopard super fire head puzzle to a red stripe entry spot-nose yellowbelly, uh, puzzle head DG, and, uh, I was, um, I was quite sure the male didn't have fire. And, uh, when I cut the clutch, there were two, two super fires. Like, damn, you know? So, um, you know, sometimes, you know, you mislead yourself in terms of, um, you know, some of the combinations. The superfires are cool, but you, it does take away a bit of the, um, the, you know, it does take away all of the patterning, so it's a bit hard to ID that certain combos now.
Okay, that's actually a good segue into something I want to talk about, which was, uh, shed testing. Do you have access to shed testing, um, in South Africa?
Yeah, so we, um, we've got Pro Hero. Proer is a, uh, yeah, yeah, he's a European-based company, so he collaborates here with a local lab. So, um, yeah. So, last year was my first year of really a big testing, um, testing pool. I think we tested around 200 animals last year. Um, and then it could have been, you know, some of them were multiple tests. And, um, so this year as well, you know, I'm doing quite a lot of testing. Um, and also especially with like lace, the lace stuff, you know, just to make sure that your, your IDs are, you know, correct and also to give the, the customers that reassurance. So I think shed testing is a, a great, um, how can you say, great thing for our industry. Although it did make everything very rapid, you know, that's, that's the only thing.
You know, um, but I think going forward, it's going to also actually be maybe, how can you say, much more of an improvement to the industry because it, it might also cut out the oversupply of animals, you know, in a sense, you know, because now you can really streamline what you've got in the collection and just work with, you know, what you want. You don't have to breed or prove out animals and then you've got stuff that you didn't want in a sense. Um, so I think going forward, you know, I'm going to do also quite a lot of testing throughout the collection.
Yeah, I mean, like anything else, I think it's got like pros and cons. Uh, but I agree with you a thousand percent. It's definitely speeding up things. Uh, but there's definitely a lot of pros too. I mean, some people might view, uh, things being sped up as a pro too, and like people hitting projects, but it gives you an opportunity to shoot for stuff you might not have otherwise, uh, wanted to shoot for because of the unknowns. And going back to what you said with supply, you're not having to hold back all this stuff and like keep all these extra animals and stuff like that. And so, um, that, that definitely helps.
And, uh, I mean, before you growing stuff up for three, four years, pairing it, and then boom, it's not what you thought it was or what you were hoping it was, and boom, now you got to sell that one and kind of back to the drawing board or just space and stuff like that. So, yeah.
Yeah. And I think, you know, like it evens out, you know, that's what I've seen this past season. You know, it's like, um, not, yeah. So the 2020, so I classify my seasons 2024, like 2025. So like this year will be the 25, 26 season. So the previous season, what I had, I did like a few like pairings specifically for shed testing, you know, to like you said, yet again, to speed up some projects. And I've actually come to the realization is that it actually still takes more or less the same time period as what you would have done if you started the project from scratch because I paired a clown double DG exantantic, I paired to a leopard DT clown, um, female, and I mean, out of the 10 eggs, only two animals proved out to be head antic, you know, so that's 20%. So if you look, if you look at how the odds are and how sometimes the the shed test come back as, you know, it's more or less the same as what you would have done if you started a project in a sense from from scratch as well, you know. Um, so I think it's going to even out in the next few years and, um, like you said, I think it's going to take the odd factor out of raising up animals and it's not proving out to what it initially intended to be. And, um, another really valid point that Justin made on the shed test documentary, uh, was that the animals do sell, um, quicker if they're head and if they're not hit, you know, because the customers feel at the ease less and they know what they're getting. So, I think it's in general, I think it's, um, like you said, I think it's got its pros and its cons, but I think long-term the pros might be more, might outweigh, um, the cons in my opinion.
Gotcha. That makes sense. That makes sense. Um, I didn't realize you went to, uh, Tinley. How was that for you?
Yeah, it was crazy, man. You know, it's, um, for a reptile geek like myself, you know, I think, uh, um, yeah, it's a amazing, amazing, um, feeling. You, I said, I, if I come back, when I came back to South Africa, I was like telling the guys, you know, like, it's like a massive, how can you say, it's, I would, it's not a Walmart, but I just tried to explain to them the size of the expo. You know, it was, um, it was just amazing, man, you know, it's like just great to be there and, you know, to see some of the animals that we can't keep here again in South Africa, um, you know, to see them and, um, also just to see the large genetic diversity, especially with the ballpark profits. Um, so, yeah, no, it was a, a crazy experience. Um, and definitely one of.
Or the March one.
I went to the October one.
Okay, nice.
Yeah. So, yeah. Now, I must say that's really cool. Um, hopefully this year I can go and attend the Ham Show. That's another show I'd like to go and see. Um, so hopefully this year I'll go to the Ham Show and, um, yeah. Um, I don't think I'll come to the US this year. Maybe. Uh, but it is a bit of a far travel as well, so we'll see how it looks and how everything works out.
I see you got on your Bob's Ball shirt. You ever going to u make it to the Southeast Reptile Expo in Atlanta?
Uh, I would love to. Yeah, definitely. Um, I'd love to, you know, like, so it's a bit of a, it's a bit of a harder one, you know, like especially just because, you know, the travel times are so, so rough, you know, and like you said, as well, you know, with the, like you, you guys know with the animals, you can't leave so long durations, you know, even though I've got really great employees, um, I still prefer being hands-on with the animals and if there's a problem, that, that, then we can sort it out. So that's the biggest thing, you know, it's just to to time everything and and work according to that. I know you're on your phone, so you might not have saw Will's message, but we just pulled it up. So, he's saying meet him in Japan in April. I know they went to Japan last year. They was there for like two weeks. They went to uh several different places.
Yeah, Will, Will is trying to uh influence me here now. It's like 21 hours to travel to to Japan. So, we'll see. We'll see if it's possible or not. Uh, but, uh, I, what we almost rather come to South Africa and then we can go on a few hunting trips.
You get a lot of good hunting there.
Yeah. Yeah. So, um, we used to in the past, but in a few last few years, we've, uh, not hunted as much. Uh, my brother, uh, loves it. Um, it's the same. He's very passionate about it as well. Um, but, yeah. Yeah, hunting is quite, quite big here in South Africa. Nice. Nice. So, I was, as I was scrolling down on your page, like I saw, I saw a bunch of stuff. Obviously, like a whole bunch of, uh, cool, uh, snakes. I saw some sales and stuff like that, like some sales that you had going on, like a Black Friday sale, stuff like that. So, talk about some of your, your sales strategies and kind of like how you've tweaked that over the years to make it more effective for your business.
Yeah, so, um, it's actually quite, quite interesting. Um, I don't get a lot of sale from my sales from from Morph Market. I'm going to be honest. You know, it's, uh, just because I think my outreach in terms of the Morph Market presence and being in South Africa, it's not so big in a sense because, you know, people tend to look into their markets, um, you know, where they situated in. Um, but I must say, which really helps, I think, is, you know, the social media and just being actively present, you know, showing what's going on in the collection, being, I would say transparent, but showing on what projects you're working on. Um, and also just reaching out to people, you know, in a sense. Um, so in, in the last few years, you know, I've changed a few of the strategies in terms of I've got now the two Morph Markets. Um, so the one in South Africa and then the one in the USA, which is basically, it's just a duplicate of each other, you know. Um, so it, it does cause some confusion sometime, but I think now over the, it's this is basically the second or actually the third year that we're going to do this. So I think over the next few years, it should be a bit better, but it's just basically to try and advertise in more markets, you know, because the biggest market still is is the USA, you know. So I think that gets the most traction. And another thing I think that really helped me is is the YouTube. Even though I'm going to be honest, the YouTube isn't isn't my favorite thing, you know, just because it, um, you know, I don't like watching my own videos or anything like that, but I still think it's a, um, it's a good thing because, uh, people get to learn your collection and also, uh, put a face behind the name in a sense. Um, and, yeah, this year I'm going to explore a bit few different routes, um, you know, to see how that, how that's going to work as well. I'll just do a bit more promotional work on especially like releasing hatchlings and, um, yeah, just to see how that works as well.
Gotcha. You don't have a Do you have a Patreon?
Yeah, I do. Yeah. So, I started Patreon. I started Patreon actually, um, a year ago and.
It's new since the last time you've been on the show.
Yeah. Yeah. So, I started Patreon, um, about a year ago and, um, so far so good. I think we're around at like 22 odd members. Um, mostly being South Africans and then a few, um, international, um, guys as well. And, you know, it's great, man. You know, because I think, um, the my initial thought with the Patreon was just to to build a close community of like-minded people, you know, um, where we can share, um, our information and, um, you know, our findings with each other and just try and improve each other's collections at the same time. So, yeah, the Patreon is a great thing and I really enjoy it as well to to work with those certain certain guys as well.
How is it structured? Like is it by tiers or you just kind of got one tier everybody to pay the same price? How's it work?
Yes. So I've got two tiers basically, like a, um, a $5 tier, which is more like general updates and, you know, there's a few like perks in terms of like discount and, um, I can say we're doing some wolf identification videos on that tier as well.
Okay. And then we've got the $50 tier, which is quite broad. You know, we've got, um, uh, the WhatsApp group chat and we do a lot of extra content for them. I'd say around almost six videos a month, you know, of different, um, you know, videos for them. And, um, I try also to help them work out certain breeding, breeding projects, which I think is is going to be beneficial for their collection and also trying to see where we can improve their collection as well.
Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, that's dope, man.
Yeah. So, all good, man.
So, what else has got you excited, uh, moving forward in the future ball python wise?
Sure. So, um, you know, sometimes, you know, if I think about how, how, how far we the industry has come and what we've been able to achieve as, as breeders in general, I think the the future is so exciting, you know. I mean, if you look, like you just said, Justin, as well, with the AR, with I think it's armless angels with the Hypo Pompei. I mean, it's crazy. It's just, it's just crazy, you know. Everyone is producing such top quality animals, you know, and, uh, I think going forward, there's going to be so many different projects which excites us and, um, it's like, yet again, um, with the paints, you know, paint is another project which I'm very excited about. Um, and it's crazy, you know, because, um, back in 2014, I could have bought paint or sentinel from Chunku of Dynasty Reptiles for $200, for $200, you know. Um, I mean, that was, that was the pricing back in the day. And I mean, fast track to 2023, I bought my first paint fear for $2,000, you know. So, um, it's very interesting to see how the market changes and how, um, everything, um, how can you say, pans out. So, um, going forward, I think I'm really like excited for working also with the right co-dominant genes, like I said to you, like mandarin, lace, gravel, these type of genes where there's no genetic limitations. That's where I'm trying to get out in my collection to try and almost pay any snake to any snake, you know, to try and, um, get the best results in a broader spectrum.
Do you work with like a lot of the ALS stuff, like acts like super, like let's say like chocolate spot nose or, uh, cypress spot nose or blackhead chocolate stuff like that? Yellow belly?
Obviously.
Yeah, I've got a few. Um, I've got a few in the collection. Not as, not as many anymore because every year, you know, I try to move out certain breeder animals. Um, but I work with, I, I love working with, um, elite combinations, like you said, blackhead spot, blackhead chocolate, just because it makes the IDing process so much easier, you know, yet again, like we talk about, talked about shed testing, you know, it just removes the, how can you say, um,
The doubt, you know, the guesswork, you know. So, um, I mean, for instance, I've got a male blackhead phantom Batman, which I, I called Bane. And I mean, he's basically just, yet again, coming back to keeping animals just for the sake of keeping. He's just a pet now. Um, but I mean, he's a great animal because he's blackhead and spot nose. Um, so everything he breeds to, you know, it's going to be either blackhead or spot nose. And it's, uh, quite interesting because it always seems like the blackhead of his gene pool is much stronger, because most of the babies comes out as blackhead, you know, very few as spot nodes. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I really like working like the alix stuff.
Um, and you have to think, you have to think too, like with some of them, like, uh, spot nose. You got to be careful with like how you breed those and you don't want spot nose on both sides because now you got to deal with power balls and kind of all the stuff that go along with those, like shaking and all that good stuff, or all that bad stuff, I should say.
So, and then the combos that they make look really nice too.
Yeah. Yeah. The, the other thing is like, I'm going to be honest with you, like, like you said, like with super spot nose and super black pastel and super cinnamon, all of these genes that we know has got some sort of genetic, um, genetic problems, I try and avoid, you know. Um, even though if it's a really insane pairing that I want to make, um, I'll rather take the the longer route or different alternative to try and avoid it, you know, because I, you know, a lot of people want to do like panda pines and all of these things, which don't get me wrong, they're beautiful animals, but I always tell them, listen, you know, rather spare yourself the disappointment than, you know, trying to do it because you don't, you're taking a gamble. You know, you don't know if that animal is going to be perfectly healthy or even, you know, it can be perfectly healthy and no problems, or it could have, you know, severe complications, which is, um, in my opinion, not not worth the risk.
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. So, I know, uh, before, uh, before we got on, we said we was going to limit it to about an hour. So, we, we pulling up on that, uh, right now. But before we, uh, do get out of here, is there anything else you want people to be on the lookout for? I know you said you got a, a video dropping in a few hours as far as like trends and projections, but anything else you want people to be on the lookout for?
Yeah. So, yeah, like I said, um, next, next 20, well, in less than 24 hours, we're dropping the next, uh, YouTube video, I think. So, it's 5:00 South African, South African time. I'm not sure what is that in the different spectrums or different time zones in the US. And, um, yeah, I think this year is going to be exciting here for the ball python industry in general. I think there's a lot of people with, uh, you know, certain doubts, you know, in in the industry as well. I always say to to guys, um, in the industry, remember this is a long-term game, you know, so just be patient, stick it out. Um, be passionate about the animals. If you, if you have your doubts in certain days, I mean, not every day is a great day. Even myself, you know, sometimes you get discouraged about certain things. I always say go back, go work with your snakes and just enjoy the snakes. So, so basically what I want to get into is don't, don't give up. You know, if you're really certain and you, you, you, you're passionate about the animals, um, the right timing will come and you, you'll see the fruit of your labor. So, don't get impatient and don't throw in the towel too quick.
Yeah. Bit facts. I was talking with, uh, Jeremy from Boss Exotic Reptiles this past weekend and we was talking about the highs and lows and, uh, the goods and the bads and, and you gonna have both. That's just part of the game. But the bad stuff make the good stuff just that much better and make you understand,
That much more. So, yeah, it's definitely going to be ups and downs, man, but just stick it through. Stick with it.
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And then, um, just a last thing for, especially the USA customers. So, um, we export every, every few months. So normally, um, every from March, every third month or second month. So, basically to the US, basically we cover all, um, export fees. Most of the customers can just pay small, um, domestic shipping or in some cases, we cover that as well. So we try and streamline the process. So if there's anything that anyone is ever interested in, um, in the USA, this the process is quite simple. We just put it up to our next export date and domestic shipping will be arranged as soon as the animals are, um, based in the UK, in, in the USA.
Yeah, I know. I can personally vouch for that and co-sign it. When I got that snake from you, it was a super easy process. Super easy.
Yeah. The female you got from me was a chocolate mojave spot nose.
Yeah.
Hyper energy. Okay.
Yeah. And so she's, uh, she's at like 10 or 12 millimeter follicles right now.
Oh, awesome. Awesome.
Yeah. She's been liking up with puzzle head hypo male.
Oh, wow. Wow. Okay. Nice. So it's going to be a nice, nice clutch there as well. And like you said, yet again, with the ley combination, it's going to take all of the guesswork out of the equation.
Exactly. And, and hopefully I can do well on the, uh, hypo odds and the DJI, especially.
Yeah, that will be great. If you can get like a, what would it be? Hypo DG puzzle. Something like that. That would be great.
I get a couple of those. That would be good.
Yeah. Couple females to throw in the rat.
Yeah. Just grow them up. Today.
Yeah, for sure. For sure, man. But, uh, man, again, man, thanks for coming on tonight, man. It's been amazing catching up with you. Definitely, uh, we definitely can't let two years go by before we, uh, get you on the show again.
No, 100%. Let's, uh, let's run it back again sometime, maybe at the end of this year, and we can do a recap of, um, you know, what I've said in this podcast. Hopefully, it plays out good, and, uh, we can do a recap a bit of the how, how the market was this last year. And, uh, yeah, I'll just catch up again.
Yeah, you can update us on what came out of those 69 clutches. You got now.
Some exciting stuff. Exciting stuff, man.
Nice. Nice, man. Uh, so that's going to do it for tonight, man. I appreciate everybody sliding through the night, kicking it with us in the live chat. Big shout out to y'all. Big shout out to, uh, Replay Gang. Shout out to the audio only gang. Make sure you listening back, man. You, you leave us a comment, let us know you were here. Uh, but that's it for tonight's episode for Clutch Conversations. I'm Mike. This the homie DJ. The lovely lady behind the scenes is Jakar. Thank y'all for coming out. Be blessed. Peace. Heat. Heat. N.