Transcription
So, hi everyone. Today, I have with me Dr. Shilpa. She's, uh, she's one of the foreign-trained dentists who was originally trained from India, but had a journey where she went to different countries. But recently, she got accepted to three schools. Boston University, she's been accepted to, uh, University of Pennsylvania, UPenn, and the third school was, Doctor, oh, UIC. Yep. And you got an invite from University of Buffalo as well recently. And let's see if she's gonna be going for that, uh, bench exam and interview or not.
So, in today's interview, I'm gonna talk to Dr. Shilpa, ask her, ask her about her journey, how she was able to make it happen, and let's talk to her. So, thank you for giving us your time, Dr. Shilpa.
Absolutely. Good to see you again, Doc. How are you doing?
I'm doing great. And I, I would tell people, it was an opportunity. It was a fortunate opportunity that I got to work with Super during her interview preps, and that's when we got to know each other. And it's been splendid to work with somebody who had a journey like her. So, it's, uh, I would say it was fortunate for me as well.
So, Doctor, amongst three schools that I mentioned, you got into UIC, you got into Boston, and now, uh, UPenn as well. Which school are you picking amongst these three?
Uh, and I'm like, hands down going to UPenn because that's my dream school. So, I've been waiting for the invite. So, yes.
So, if I, if, okay, imagine if somebody is watching right now in Pakistan, India, the Middle East, or who recently came to U.S. They want to ask you, why was it you and your dream school? Why isn't Boston your dream school or UIC? What's a comparison for you?
Uh, I would say it's awesome because I had one of my closest friends who studied there, and I have seen her going through the school, her journey. And I somehow had in my mind that I had to go to Penn Dental Medicine. So, that is one of the reasons. And another one is, it's being the Ivy League. I really like the program. I got a chance to visit the school, so I like the culture there.
How, how was the school when you visited? How was the school when you visited? It like, overall, you've been, did you, and did you, you have done preceptorship at Boston too, right? So, you've been at Boston. Yeah. So, let's compare both of them. How, how was things for you? How would you contrast the difference between both of them?
Yeah, um, Boston was a very good school too. Like, I got a chance to almost shadow there and interact with students and also faculty for a month. Uh, that was a very good, enriching experience because I got a whole new of how the academia runs, how the schools run, and how the patient flow happens. So, it was a very good experience. But when I was in New Penn, it was just like a one-day tour. I just got to go with my friend, and I got to meet my professor with whom I did research. So, I'm like, there too, because I first went there and I really thought like I'm gonna come to this school.
So, but I'm sorry to cut you. I'm, I'm thinking I should have asked you earlier, but can you tell us about your profile? Because everybody must be thinking what your profile is like.
Yeah, so, uh, I would say my profile is not too large. It's just basic. Like, I have seen in Facebook groups and in lots of links like, "Hey, what's your profile? What, what all things you need? How to get into school?" So, I always had a big, like, a stigma kind of thing like, "You need to have an awesome profile. You have to do research."
What's your profile? What, what year did you graduate? And what was that? Yes.
Okay, so I graduated in 2011, and my GPA was 3.68. And after I graduated, I worked in Europe, and then I got married. And like any other girl, I moved. I had to move along with my husband. So, I had been in different countries like Japan, Singapore. I even tried to settle down in Australia before coming to U.S. So, it was a journey where I got some breaks, but I still made sure I pursued that I stay in touch with dentistry. So, I used to go back to India and work in between. So, it was like a mix of things. But once I came to U.S., I made sure I pursued my career very organically.
So, what year did you move to the United States?
So, I'm moving, end of 2018. Like, and okay.
And after you moved, did you start doing dental assisting? You became a hygienist? What did you do after moving? What's your profile up there?
Yes, so after coming to the U.S., I started from, uh, I actually took a break initially to just understand the process, like, what is this? So, yes, I definitely took a break. And from 2019, I started shadowing in offices, in dental offices. I got to know what exactly American Dentistry is. And then, because I didn't have a work permit, I had to just simply voluntarily shadow and voluntarily assist. So, it took a while. And then I started working as an assistant for almost nine to ten months. I did the assisting, and then I applied in my first cycle, but I literally got 16 rejections because I didn't hear back from anyone. So, then I felt like, "This isn't enough. I have to be like, more into building. I mean, I should have more experience. Maybe I'm not ready yet." That's when I started applying to preceptorship, and I got in in Boston preceptorship. So, it was in Feb 2023. And apparently, I was doing a research with one of the professors in UPenn, where because of COVID, I couldn't go in person, but I used to help her in publishing papers and paper writing and poster presentations. So, I added that to my profile. And then finally, I made up my mind to give hygiene licensing exam. So, imagine, I went like, "Oda is the only state where you can practice."
Let me break down things for people who are watching, especially for candidates. I think Shilpa was being very humble when she said her profile isn't that amazing or anything because, let me tell you, in our profile, and I can tell you from a third-person perspective, if I'm a part of a school or looking at your profile, some of the things that she had considerably remarkable. One, she's coming from India, but then she has a diverse exposure of going to Singapore, Japan, and then even Australia. And in U.S., they kind of, that kind of makes you stand out compared to most candidates who are coming from India. Mostly are female. So, it kind of shows like you have some kind of diverse experience. Even if you did shadowing out there or some courses or whatever you did during that time, shows that you're open to diversity and flexibility in life. And I think, and actually, you were, because after you moved, this was a very, this is a very frustrating period for people who don't know or who are planning to come. When you enter into U.S., but you're not authorized to work, it feels like somebody tied your hands and your feet and threw you in a sea to swim. You know how to swim, but your hands are tied, and you feel like you're handicapped. And it's a very frustrating period for most of us. But then she got into dental assisting. She applied, but here's a very key thing about her journey that she analyzed that she is not getting into any, any school, she's not getting results. She got 16 rejections. And then she was smart. Here's the thing, she figured out a way to get the hygiene license. And people who don't know, as Shilpa mentioned, that in Florida, right now, you can get a dental hygiene license through an exam if you're a foreign-trained dentist. Secondly, she invested in herself for going for preceptorship at Boston University. And I can tell you, that's no easy joke because you have to pay a large amount of money just to shadow people in the school. Pretty much, you learn a lot, but it's a large amount of investment. You're living for a whole month up there, far from your family. And, uh, I can see that that investment she did added on to her profile.
Well, I'm glad. So, just to, if I re-ask you this question, that, uh, you got 16 rejections, and now you have three acceptances and four invites. What was the difference? If people, if you want to tell them, what did you change in your profile or what did you do in that one year that made such a significant difference? What would you answer them or tell them?
Yeah, that's a good question. I literally touched every point of my profile, like a holistic thing, I would say. Like, I made sure I add on some CE courses. Like, I had a local anesthesia course in University of Florida. So, that was a good add-on, hands-on course, which added literally 60 CE points at a stretch. Like, it was a good experience too. So, that shows that, yes, this, this candidate wants to learn more. So, I made sure I had some CE courses. And then, like I told you, I did preceptorship. I cleared the licensing exams. And that exam was, is not an easy one. Like, you have to do three, three, like, two theory exams and one practical. So, that also shows that, yes, this candidate has the potential.
Was the, sorry, was it practical on a human patient or that person?
No, no, it wasn't a mannequin. So, they just, with the simulated calculus, and you just have to treat like a human. And, yeah, that was like a one-day exam.
In, in, like the licensing exam, which you would be giving in the next couple of years, they make you do the same thing on a, type it onto, they have calculus, and you have to scratch it off.
Okay. Yeah. Okay. I got that one done. Good, good. Okay. So, moving forward, what, so you also went to preceptorship, right? Yeah. And then also needs a volunteering work. I worked in Texas Mission of Mercy, which I didn't do previously. So, I literally touched every thing that I could develop instead of just going one side or just doing the same thing.
Okay. I don't know if you're comfortable, approximately, if, uh, preceptorship, it must be costly.
Oh, yeah. So, it was. So, yeah.
And then you said you also got an, uh, engage yourself, you also engaged yourself in Boston and UPenn research. How did you land that thing?
So, again, I would really thank my friend. Because I emailed lots of professors. I used to live in Dallas, so there was a University, Texas A&M. I literally went to their website, I emailed Emery Little, Professor who was in research, saying, "And so and so, I'm interested." But I didn't hear back from anyone, unfortunately. Also, the COVID was the biggest factor. And then, my friend, I told her, like, "I'm looking into opportunities." So, she, who was a European grad, was working with, I think you should say her name and say a shout-out, kind of like a thank you.
Yes. So, she's my friend. Her name is, currently practicing in Pennsylvania as a dentist. So, she was the one who introduced me to her professor with whom she used to do research. So, I reached her out. I sent my resume. I had a little informal kind of interview with her. She liked me. She, she was like, "Yes, I can work with you." Virtue or in person. I actually met her. That's when I met.
Went to Japan. Yeah. Here's the thing for people who are listening to this. So, she, after those 16 rejections, you already must have heard, she, she went. I would say she kind of like analyzed. Like, this is like really strategic planning, and she invested a lot of money, resources, and she reshifted the whole table for herself. And I think your traveling or your early background kind of like the, the kind of like thought process not many people are able to do. That was really smart at your end. But along with that, in order, and getting research remotely enough for, because academic institutions, I've been a part of them as a student, faculty don't have time to reply you back. And especially when you're some A, B, C, D person sitting in another part of business. But you were knocking. So, a lot of people need to understand that she was knocking a lot of doors. It wasn't like she just went to UPenn, one person, and she mentioned. She was reaching out to as many people as she can. And one of the things I can tell you about Shilpa is that her communication is comparatively far better than most candidates I meet. And the way you communicate, the way you respond to them matters a lot. Because I felt like culturally, our countries are different. The way we write emails, the way we communicate, U.S. has its own professional kind of situation. So, the way you reach out to them or talk to them, because time is very valuable, and you want to be straight on to the point, but you shouldn't be demanding. Because beggars can't be choosers, for the lack of better term, I'm just saying this. I've seen people who would send emails and they will be demanding, and they would write ASAP. I'm sorry, I have to give this example. I get messages or emails, and people would write ASAP, and I would be thinking, "You don't write ASAP in U.S." That's a very harsh term that a boss tells their subordinate. But, so, one of the other good things about her that she was able to land that research. I think that was a big thing that you were able to, especially with European. And then the other thing is she made that struggle. She visited you, Philadelphia, and she actually met that person up there. So, if you look at overall, there was a lot of investment in terms of money, resources.
So, here's my next question. You were working as a dental assistant, you became a hygienist, but investing all of this money, how supportive were your family? Because non-dentist people can't understand what the healthy skies are doing.
I'm, I'm blessed. I'm blessed in that case because my husband is the one who was like, he was making sure whatever I asked, "Okay, if it's helping you, let's do it." So, he was the one. I still remember the day, like, you had been telling me that, "You just turned the table around." So, I would really like to mention, more than me, it was him who made sure I applied to Boston preceptorship then and there. Because I came to know that I cannot go to in-person research in UPenn. I was very, I was literally upset. Like, "Oh no, I missed a good opportunity." So, he was like, "You can't just sulk over what's happening. Just, just get done and just bounce back." So, that was kind of attitude I developed this whole journey, which is very important. I would like to tell everyone, there will be a lot of setbacks, but we had to just bounce back.
So, here's my question, because I can tell you from looking at this process, being a part of it, you get an email, you're really happy, and the next day you lose that opportunity. There's so much fluctuation. So, however, and people panic all the time. I, I've been there, so I know people panic all the time. They are happy, and all of a sudden, what they were expecting didn't come. How did you manage that? Because you were going through hoops, like jump it's back and forth, back and forth. So, how, how was your stress management during this time?
I, um, I would say I'm way better now. Like, when back then, I was very stressed. Like, I didn't know why things are not working out. Like, "What is wrong with me? Like, am I not being sincere? Am I not being smart?" I don't know. So, it's also God's timing. I believe. You start feeling the heavens closed on you. That's what you thought to think. What I, I literally, I, I feel like everything is closed. I just put all my hopes in one thing, and if that's not happening, I'm like, "Oh no." So, that is one more thing I learned, that we shouldn't just stick to one thing or just keep your mind tuned to one thing. We should be open for everything. So, that's when, yeah, that is another thing we shall learn. Then, then, like, like I told you, immediately applied. Used the last stage for the preceptorship application, and I applied it. I believe that was like, I told you, one of the major factors too. So, yeah, like believe it, we will just stay there. We have to just move on.
That's, that's a wonderful advice. But here's my next question, which most people must be asking. How was your experience with interviews? How was Boston for you? Because Boston is still conducting interviews. I personally know a little bit because, but how was your experience?
Uh, first of all, I would like to thank you for training me, like, how to be on an interview. Because I was not really prepared to be like, candidate the interviews. Uh, that's what I learned from you. Like, just be ourselves. That whoever is giving the interview, make sure, just be your true self. Talk to them openly. They just want to know you. None of the interviews that I had so far, like, I had three, none of them were clinical, or they want to test your knowledge. It's all, I want, they want to know you as a person, your personality. They want to see whether you can be a good fit to this school or not. That is all they want to look. And, and the thing I noticed is, they want to just make sure, like, whatever experiences we put on paper and reflecting when they ask us the questions. So, all the interviews were very chilled out, very friendly. They want to just make sure it was like, kind of a conversation, I would say, like, all of them. So, Boston interview was amazing. Like, I could sense it while interviewing itself, like the interviewer was like, "What's gonna happen?" Yeah, it was, anything she wants to know me more, she wants to know what I did, and why Boston. So, especially because I did the preceptorship here, but due to some reasons, I'm switching to UPenn. But otherwise, it's an amazing school. So, you will understand when you're doing the interview.
So, bye-bye. I appreciate. Like, I would say, even for me to work with you for interview prep was a good opportunity because I got to learn a lot from your story. And that was one of the reasons I wanted to interview. And Shilpa's actually a couple of our friends, I'm working with them now. But thank you for that. But my next question was that, I just, when I was reading you, when I work with candidates, sometimes you read this story, you just know they have very good chances. Because you, when I was reading your profile, I could see you at good chances. I, I wanted to ask you a question. I usually say from my personal experience that 80% of all the interviews are the same. 80% is gonna be the same thing. So, if you're strongly prepared for one conversation, like one interview, you can actually win the rest of them too. Do you agree with me?
One hundred percent. It's, it's all the same. They just want to know about you. That's it. Yeah. If you prepare for one, I feel you get the whole base of how to talk, how to steer the whole interview towards yourself. You know where you're strong, so speak, speak out so that the interviewer wants to know more. So, that's how we can click a little bit of control over the interview. So, I feel unless there are some special interviews, like Michigan has MMI, so at that time, you might need a little bit extra training on that. But otherwise, yes, I feel so.
So, here's the thing. I wanna like, help people kind of see because people are preparing on their own. How was, when you, and you had a lot of different things. You went to Japan, you went to Australia, you had Singapore, then you did for dental assisting, shadowing, preceptorship. So, you have a lot of different stories to tell. But one has been, and we discussed this during our preparations, that but how do you feel telling stories in your interview is a significant way to communicate with people? How was your experience using stories from your life, like your hiking experiences?
Yes, uh, I think we should tell it in the form of a story because it's more engaging. They feel like, "Yes, uh, so what happens?" So, they want to know more about you. Like, it kind of introduces the interviewer as well to know you more. So, I feel it should be more like a story than just simply reciting of a CV, which I used to do before. I used to be like, "Art sitting straight," and, you know, of course, we have to be professional, but at the same time, we should show our ease, which comes with experience. So, just, we have to be ourselves. Just stand it in the proper story.
That's true. I usually say interviews are like a badminton match or like a tennis match. You can't keep holding the ball, you have to play with them. It's like a, yeah, it's an artwork that you're actually conducting a conversation. So, I'm glad you were able to share this with individuals. So, I'm, I'm one of the things I'll tell you as a colleague. You mentioned about going through all that stress and your spouse helping you out. I would say this is something you will, will, which will help you even in the dental school. And especially UPenn, you can, it's a, you have friends, it's a tough program. You have to go through a lot of things. You're coming back home at eight and at night, like glad works. So, having going through that journey actually makes you more resilient, resilient even during that time. And hopefully, your spouse sees this, and he's my deeper faith as well. All right.
So, yeah. My, my next question is, Doctor, so I'm gonna keep it brief and I'm trying to focus on people right now than different part of the country, different part of the world looking at your story. If I am somebody who just migrated to U.S. or planning to migrate or just gave my national board and TOEFL. How, how, what's your advice on personal statement, resume, like moving forward from there? Because did you change your personal statement after getting 16 rejections?
I did, absolutely did. Because first time, I, I wrote my story, but I felt I should be more, uh, like to the point and more professional, you know? I had my story, I spoke my heart out, I got it done. But I said, there are certain things which should not be written in SOP, probably.
Like, what? Like, can you just give a big example that doesn't have to be listening specific?
Yeah, like, you can write your struggles, but don't give like too much into it, like getting a different kind of vibe. It should be a way how you turn your struggles down, like, you know, how you work to you. So, it has to get the feeling that, "Yes, so and so, like, I did really made it." Like, too, too much like a story, but I felt I should change it. So, I changed it for the second time. But I would say, just make sure, don't be too personal. It has to be like, why you want to get into the school and what would you learn from this program.
Okay, I understand what you're saying. And just to interpret it for people, but Shilpa is saying, you want to talk about your personal story, but in a manner that's audible to the American ears. Because if you go into too much detail that they can't understand, it will create ambiguity. Because our cultures are different, the world we are coming from is different. As she mentioned that she was traveling with her spouse wherever they were leading, and most American culture wouldn't even understand like things work very differently for the rest of the world. So, when you are writing your story, write it in a manner that's understandable by the American individual. Otherwise, you will create ambiguity, and most probably your SOP will go down the shredder. The other thing that she's mentioning, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that if you're gonna talk about challenges of your life, don't act to be a victim. If you're saying, "I went through something tough," say how it made you a stronger person, how it made you a bigger individual, and how it will help you become a better dental student in the United States, rather than saying, "I'm the world's biggest victim," and people are scared of getting you into school because they are scared you will come and you will keep crying and you think you deserve, you deserve things.
That is true. That is true. She should show how smart you are and how resilient you are, like how you can bounce back even if you have setbacks. That's what they want to know. I remember one of the professors in University of Illinois, UIC, when I had an interview, that's what she asked me, "How do you manage your stress?" I mean, you know, dental school is going to be stressful. So, I gave her example and I told how I overcame them, like how what I do. So, they want to know how good are you with dealing with stress. So, we shouldn't sound like a wing term.
Yep. I'm, I'm, I totally agree. And most, uh, just as we were, you leave whenever an interview or talk to a dentist student or a candidate, I talk about stress because dental schools like to ask you this question. And, and in a serious note, your life becomes very, I personally will tell you, like, I, in Pakistan, like my father passed away, all that going through immigration, a lot of stuff happened for me early on, being a neurosurgery resident. But when, when I started dental school at like the age of 30 up here, I've, this was so much stress that I couldn't believe. I was like, "You've gone through so much other crap, and now you're actually getting depressed of an academic institute?" And I talk to people, and they said, "It happens to everyone." Every, because the system is made in such a way, you're paying hundreds of thousands of dollars, and you want to prove yourself because you're coming through years of fighting. You made it happen. Like for other people in India, Pakistan, Middle East, Nepal, these countries, you made the dream happen. And when you're in there, every day you're thinking, "Me to make the best out of it." And it's a lot of burden on your shoulder, and it makes your hair grow white really fast. Just let it. I, and a lot of grace. Yes. So, so that happens. But I'm glad that, uh, you came out of this whole journey really positive. And like the, I would definitely say the way you were able to turn it on things because you'll even see applying to 16 schools means on average, if you apply to one school and it's 300, multiplied by that with 16, around 500, 5,000, you're applying for that, and then you got rejection. But you were still to pull in more investment to make it happen. That requires a very resilient soul. So, if somebody's watching this, you need to realize if you've been getting rejections or you've been pushed back, and you want to do something, I would say this is a very good example of somebody sitting right in front of us who analyzes systems, who had her family with her supporting her. That's a very important thing. So, you have that strong support system that you're willing to jump deeper into the sea to find that treasure. So, and I would say, you complete what you wanted. And I, and I'm, it's a, and I'm, I would say your story should be encouraging people who are listening to right now. So, I don't want to drag, uh, this longer or take more of your time. Any words or any suggestion if you were redoing this, or you, you would tell a younger self? If you can send a message to a younger self of you, three lines, three years back, or somebody who's starting, what would be your advice to them?
Posting, I shouldn't have stressed that much. That's what I would say to my younger self. Like, I was restless. I was restless. I was like, "Why things are not happening?" I keep questioning. So, I will, I shouldn't have done that. Because I believe there is certain things which we have to go through to be here. That's what I would say to everyone. Like, everyone out there, don't compare your profiles. Don't panic. Don't just be restless that, "Hey, you should get in." No, we should go through the process. And give you a simple example. I was thinking, "Why should we do TOEFL? I studied everything in English back in my country. Why should I do that?" But yes, I feel there is a reason for that. Because of TOEFL, we practice speaking, we practice listening, we practice writing. So, all this is gonna help when we are giving our interviews. And just giving a simple example, when you give an interview, you have to talk. So, you learn that is that communication which you practiced in TOEFL. Writing, you write your statements, your supplementals. So, everything has a reason. It's kind of interlinked. So, I should have enjoyed my process even more, which I had started enjoying it, the real end, like when I was all getting into school. So, I should have not thought like, "Hey, why should we do this much?" I mean, I, I absolutely understand it's a lot of money. We invest a lot of money, but we could get back that money. So, we should just think that way and be positive instead of just thinking, "Why should we do this?" Schools are crazy. They don't, no, they will call you if you're worthy. That's what I would say.
So, here's, here's a, I really like the point that you're making about TOEFL. Because people need to understand, and this is a very key point. All of us, you give national board, I gave it once, like a couple of years back, we all have passed, pass, pass, right? But what makes a difference is your TOEFL number score. Because everybody's passed who's applying. But when they see a high TOEFL score, your application just goes up there. So, TOEFL makes a lot of difference. And, do you understand Urdu or Hindi?
I understand Hindi.
So, there's a saying in Urdu, you might have heard it in Hindi, that they say, "Jo tumne kaha, woh kahani." Which means, you told this story. Yeah. You don't get things before your appointed time.
Yeah. Or then more. That is true. That is true. God will give you one when you're ready for it.
Yep. You know, you have to be prepared for that. If you just get it easily, you will never cherish it. It's your thousand girls are adopted.
So, here's the last thing I'm gonna ask you. And I never actually asked you before. I, as far as when you reach out to me for interview prep, how did you find out about me? Through a friend or YouTuber?
Yes, it was through a friend. Um, her name is Dr. Ruth. I think she took PR. Yeah, she was the one who told me. She's from Bentley. Yeah, yeah. She's from Italy. I met her during my local anesthesia training. She's a hygienist too. So, yeah. And so, she told me, "You can try getting a training from him." So, I immediately went to your channel, I saw your videos, and I was like, "Yes, I'm gonna take from him." So, I really like the way you were telling. And afterwards, after I took your interview, I started recommending my friends, like, "Go, go to him. He's good." Because it's more like, you don't give what answers, but you want to know about us, and you tell us how to talk, which is more important.
Well, I would say, Doctor, it's been an honor for me as well. Because, uh, it's some stories are worth listening to. You learn so much out of it. And, uh, thank you for giving me this opportunity to work with you. That's, I, I would say it was an honor. And hopefully, we'll stay in contact. And for people who are watching this video, uh, I hope you saw something meaningful through this video. Learned from her journey, because I, I know her time is very important. And getting her for this interview, making sure this gets uploaded on YouTube. So, hopefully, in the coming years, it will help you achieve the dreams that you are looking forward to. And if you have any questions, you can write in the comment or reach out to us. And so, hope we will see you in a more meaningful video. Thank you.
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