The Dark Secrets of Kabbalah (Zohar, elite rituals, & twin messiahs) w/Dan Duval

I was meeting people and I was like, "Something is off." And I, I can't put my finger on it. Then I was also working with survivors of satanic ritual abuse and Illuminati defectors, and what I was running into in the spirit world was something that was highly complex. And eventually, I got the name of the template in the survivors, and it was like, "Oh, this is Kabala."

They believe that the covering around the city is actually the foreskin of the serpent phallus that shines. And so it's actually the serpent phallus that brings in this universal consciousness. Meaning Kabala at its core is actually a big sex cult. The kind of sexual tortures that they will do to a person or a child or a baby 3 months old are so graphic. A whole system of belief found in Kabala that leans into a concept called twin messiahs. And those twin messiahs are twin Leviathans. Leviathan is the victim of Adam's misappropriation in their view. Leviathan, in that belief system, becomes a messianic figure that is actually driving major geopolitical agendas. And the geopolitical agendas that it is driving aligns perfectly with political Zionism. The college of pure life is not just an idea. It's a superstructure in the spirit world.

>> Hey, before you get into this one, there's no parental warning on this one, but I do want to give a trigger warning. If you have been deep in New Age or Kabala, or if you've studied, and um, there was somebody recently at an event who was like, "Hey, I totally got free from some of the New Age stuff." And um, I just want you to be careful that when we, we're going to go deep and explain what Kabala is, how it wraps into New Age mysticism, and how it really, at the end of the day, is um, a bit, a bit of a perversion on the true Christian worldview, which Jesus being the fabric of reality itself. Uh, it's, it's got some, some perversions in it. I don't want you to watch this and get kind of triggered back into old things. So, if you do have a heavy history with this, this might be something you want to just pray about before you watch, um, or not watch at all. And then, uh, we talk about this towards the end of the episode, but I just want you to know we're not advocates of you going out and studying all of these things on your own unless you feel really called to do it. Uh, we have Dan Duvall with us, and he's going to take us down, really, a master class of where Kabala comes from, how it works, what it is. Um, and he references a whole lot of authors, books, texts, manuscripts. Um, and he goes pretty deep into them. But just for the record, on record, we're not advocating you go and buy all of these books unless you feel like you are supposed to. So, just putting that out there before the show begins. I think you'll enjoy it. I did. See you guys inside. >>

Everyone wants to get to the high places. But if you want to go high, you first have to go deep.

>> What's up? Welcome back to Deep End. How are you, sir? >>

I'm doing really well. There's a difference between when we open up and we're like giddy.

>> Yeah. >>

You can tell we're like both smiling.

>> On the edge of our seat just trying to get to the content as soon as possible. >>

There's sometimes when it's solos, we're like, "Hey, how are you? What are you talking about today?" "Oh, Gideon."

>> Is it ever? Do you feel like it's because you dread talking about the stuff in solos, 'cause you have to be the one that's vulnerable versus with this, you get more of a break? >>

Well, there's a, there's a level of, what do you say? Plausible deniability when I'm not the one saying stuff.

>> Yeah. >>

But it's a guest.

>> I could always be like, "Yeah, Dan's crazy, man. I don't know. He's just crazy." >>

Who knows? We have Dan Duval, uh, back on the show, I think. Is he the most represented coming back? This is his fourth time, right?

>> Him and Gary have both been on the show four times. >>

Tim's getting up there, too.

>> Tim's been on three times. >>

Um, yeah, we're going to.

>> No, four. We're going to four. >>

Let me introduce him real fast, and then, and then I want to kind of open up the discussion. I've got a lot of questions for you today. But Dan Duval is an apostolic leader. He runs Bride Ministries International. Um, this has expanded into a lot of different wings and sectors. You're doing a lot of work. And the main idea behind this, and the books that you write, is, uh, really helping people with trauma backgrounds who have been in, um, ritual abuse situations and they've been, um, stuck. They're not free. They don't have the freedom of Jesus. And you have done a lot of this, 10,000 hours of one-on-one ministry sessions with survivors. You built a team and an organization of coaches. Um, you're licensing ministers to be able to do this work, which is amazing. You're multiplying yourself. But would you say that the, the main vision and the main goal you have is to promote unity in the body of Christ while at the same time setting people free from, uh, the chains of darkness?

>> Yeah, that's, that's on our website. We, we, that's a statement of faith. Uh, you know, when God gave me that statement of vision, like, "Promote unity in the body of Christ," I was like, "I am the worst one. I am absolutely the worst pick for that part. I don't, it doesn't make sense to me." But I had to write it down anyway, so I, like, look at it and remind myself, like, "Yeah, there is a point where that makes sense." >>

You know, but you know, I spend a lot of time making people upset.

>> I'm here to help. You know, uh, whatever we. >>

Well, the truth will always be offensive to people who don't want the truth.

>> That's true. >>

You know, I have to, I have to really hand it off to you guys. It's been amazing to be your guest.

>> Um, and I get approached by people all the time that now know me because of this podcast, yours. Thank you. >>

And the funny thing is, none of them can agree on what your podcast is called. Like, none.

>> I'm not kidding. It's like, "Oh, I saw you on the Deep Dive. The Deep Dive." >>

>> Uh, no. I saw you on the Deep Jump. >>

>> Jump. I haven't heard that one yet. >>

>> The Deep Well. >>

>> And my personal favorite. >>

>> Dan, when you were on the Deep Welch, what. >>

>> Sort of make it, sort of fits, I guess, sort of. >>

>> You are deep, >>

>> Mr. Mr. Welch. >>

>> Yeah. >>

>> But you know. >>

>> The Deep Welch. >>

>> The Deep End. >>

>> Right? We need to maybe improve our branding. It's what it sounds like. >>

>> Just going to put everything in like all caps and bolds from now on. >>

>> Yeah, that's. We'll put that on Jake. >>

>> Okay. >>

>> Yeah, it's fine. I'll fix it. >>

>> You, you'll figure it. Yeah, my bad. >>

>> You're very good at that. I'm. >>

>> I'm so sorry. >>

>> How's 2026 going for you so far? Just as an aside. >>

>> It's a rocket ship, friend. >>

>> It is a rocket ship. What happened to us last year was a, what I would call, nonlinear growth. >>

>> Mhm. >>

>> And what we had been preparing and building and all of that stuff, everything broke because of the overwhelming demand that has come upon our organization. So now we've had to rebuild a lot of things. We had to rebuild the, uh, infrastructure to scale the coaching company. We had to rebuild all kinds of systems even within the ministry that we're doing. It's, it's because we are now positioning to be able to serve the number of people that God is sending our way. Um, you know, I don't know if you guys remember getting some complaints like, "Hey, we tried to go to Dan's website and no one's available." Yeah. Well, we changed it. So now we have a line, and that line is very long, but, um, we have hundreds of people in our school of inner healing, and so we are going to be scaling. Like, we are going to have thousands of ministers eventually. >>

>> Wow. >>

>> Um, but our first goal is hundreds. >>

>> And, um, our goal is to like, you know, be able to minister to hundreds of thousands of people around the world within the next few years. >>

>> To do the deprogramming, the deliverance, the inner healing, the activation, all of the things. And so, uh, we've been really, uh, working hard, really working hard. And, um, one of the things that we're going to be doing now, we're actually launching a whole new interface so we can take people on, on, on journeys when they come to our, our ministry to, to, to kind of curb the pain of not being able to get the help they want just right out the gate 'cause we're booked. But like to actually walk people through, like, "This is what you can do to get some inner healing breakthrough. These are the resources which you can understand to get some deliverance. This is a path through a deliverance process." Um, and you can do all of that for free and, and, and all by yourself. So, like, we are really working hard to serve the, the, the volume of people that God is sending our way. And it's, it, yeah, it's been a lot of work. >>

>> I'm really proud of you, man, because >>

>> Thank you. >>

>> The, the things that are coming out now, because five years ago, you probably, everyone tried to make you feel crazy. >>

>> Yes. >>

>> Even last year, there were >>

>> Gaslighters and people who were like, "None of this is real. All you need is, you know, salvation." And, but you see some of the stuff that's coming out in, like, the Epstein files, and it's like, "Okay, maybe some of the people that Dan was helping actually were not crazy. They actually were, were actually abused by the people that we trusted." And I think the world is starting to have to wake up to it because of what's coming out. And I'm, my hope is that you feel a lot less crazy, and that the victims feel a lot less crazy, because it's like proof. Here you go. This is what has, has been occurring for 20 years. >>

Well, you know, things like the Epstein files really help to substantiate the claims because, you know, it, it violates worldviews. People don't want to think that politicians have private clubs where they refer to children as pizza and, you know, destroy their lives with torture and traumatic abuses. And, you know, they don't want to believe that their beloved country music singers and rap stars and Hollywood people are doing, you know, rituals, killing babies. Now we have actual Hollywood stars and Nicki Minaj, who's out there publicly saying Jay-Z and Beyonce, they do this stuff. And like, she's one of the most searched people now in the world. And it's like, "Oh, it's, you know, we got the Epstein files, we got insiders, we have all kinds of people that are now starting to like say, "This is what it is." And, you know, I'm on the other side of that because I've been working with the people that survived for over a decade, training people to work with the people that survived these things for over a decade. And now it's like, you know, where people didn't want to believe, it's, it's becoming impossible to ignore. And I think God's behind that. >>

>> Yeah. >>

>> I would say so. >>

>> Uh-huh. >>

>> Yeah. Okay. I want to open us up on, uh, on the discussion. You good? >>

>> Great. >>

>> We're, we don't need to just like introduce too much. We can just go straight into the topic. >>

>> Let's do it. >>

I was at an event not too long ago. I was teaching about, um, I think this was actually probably, oh, close to a year ago. It's one of our belief architectures. And, um, I said it again last week at an event, but I was talking about the operating system of manifestation and faith, how it works. And I, I always pause in these moments because we have a lot of New Age people who come to our events. And, um, because we've, my life is proof that I've, I've obviously mastered some of it. But I always say, Christianity is not the most sophisticated system to get the thing you want the fastest. If you want that, it's Kabala. But if you go that road, in the end, it leads to death. So, I think we're New Age is starting to pick up steam. It's now like a world religion. It's the, the biggest polytheist religion that's ever existed. But I think that the sophisticated initiates of New Age are starting to learn Kabala. It's becoming a, a more mainstream New Age type operating system.

>> But it's old. >>

>> Mhm. >>

>> We think it's new 'cause we're just discovering it. It's just becoming popular, but it's very old. So, I think what I want to talk about today is, what is it? Pastors don't know how to deal with it. And most people who hear it, it sounds, it actually sounds very legit. >>

>> Mhm. >>

>> Like the Tree of Life and how it all integrates into nature and your body and kinesiology. It sounds very legit. Sounds very cool. It's sort of this secret knowledge that if you understand it, you can become more successful. Technically, all of that is true. Um, but I think we should do a deep dive on Kabala, which I believe will probably be the new world religion as we progress through the next 10, 15 years. >>

>> Goodness. >>

>> Um, it also called Jewish mysticism, reference to it. >>

It's a part. I think it's a part of Jewish mysticism. I don't think it's all of it, is it? Uh, it's one of the most advanced pieces. Why don't you just take us? You're the expert. You take us into it.

>> Sure. Okay. So, I, I first of all, I have to say that you, you are the first, like, podcaster, like thought leader to have the guts to have me talk about this subject to date. And I came out really hard against Kabala in 2019. So, this is something that I probably turned inside out for, for a very long time, um, a long time ago, and, and there were several things that led me to do that. And I, I, I'll get into that. But just to introduce the subject, Kabala is a, it is a system of spirituality. It is Jewish mysticism. Kabala is not a book. It's, it's essentially something that has been received. That's what it implies. And there, you're receiving that knowledge through a collection of texts that, um, include the Zohar, the Sefer Yetzirah. um, I believe, uh, 3 Enoch, which is not 1 Enoch, the pseudepigraphal book that many of your guests have referenced on this podcast talking about the Watchers. And some of this stuff is, 3 Enoch was written way after Jesus died and resurrected by a Jewish rabbi. And it's a, it's a book of mysticism, Jewish mysticism specifically. Uh, you have, I, I believe the Book of Formations, uh, the Gate of Reincarnations, like, there are different books. And they take all of these books together, and that becomes the Kabala. And then out of those texts, you are deriving this symbol or which we call the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, which is a way of explaining the whole belief system. And so, so, so Kabala is multiple things. It is, um, in some senses, a, a, a creative template because it's how, in Jewish mysticism, creation is explained. I don't know if you knew that, but that is like the foundation level of the whole conversation. So, so really, when New Agers take Kabala and begin to extract from it principles for manifestation, they are, a true Kabbalist would say, "You've taken a flower out of the ground to smell it, but its roots are now out of the ground. They belong in." So, the flower is, it, it's going to die. You're not, you, the, the actual root of the belief system is Judaism. If you want to be able to fully unpack Kabala, you need to become a student of the Talmud and the Midrash and all these other things because, you know, even like the Zohar, right? You're, you're, you're extracting a text that's written in multiple languages, but it's pulling on the Old Testament concepts that, uh, are, are designed to be interpreted in light of, like, Talmud and other things. Now, now with that said, um, in order to really get to the robust defilement, and I could call it that, that Kabala brings, you need to go into the doctrines of the belief system itself. And then you can back out and look at how it's used in manifestation from there. But, um, you know, I started to look at Kabala because I was meeting people that were involved in Hebrew Roots. I was meeting people that were involved in what they called Christian mysticism. And even, even coming from a background, uh, before I, I went in certain directions of, um, dispensational premillennialism, which is holds very pro-political Zionist views that are kind of baked into the biblical interpretive model, like I was, I, you know, I was trying to wrestle through a lot of things. And, and, and particularly from the Christian mystic side, I, I was meeting people and I was like, "Something is off." Like, and I, I can't put my finger on it. Then I was also working with survivors of satanic ritual abuse and Illuminati defectors, and what I was running into in the spirit world was something that was highly complex. And I, all I could call it was a template. I didn't know. I was like, "I don't know what this thing is, but I'm running into it." And it interfaces with their body in different areas. It interfaces with other realms and dimensions and councils and worlds. And it's super complicated. And I don't know what this thing is, but it's in some of these people. And it's really, really hard to resolve the spiritual bondages and demonization that's coming off of whatever this template is. And eventually, I got the name of the template in the survivors, and it was like, "Oh, this is Kabala." They actually put this whole Tree of Life as a foundational programming template into people. And then I began to find that this same programming template was behind some of the belief systems that were derived into Christian mysticism that were producing counterfeit ascension protocols because I was like, "I ascend through Jesus. Why do you think you need a merkaba, which I can explain in a second, to go into heavenly realms?" That's, that's not in my Bible. I don't understand it. So, "No, it is in your Bible. It's a chariot." That's what Ezekiel used. And it's like, "Where did you get that from?" You know, and it's, "Oh, no, that is that is firmly Kabala." And it's, and it's, "Oh, you know." So I started to see it's like this belief system is, is so, so central to so many things. It's a superstructure. And then I began to see once I started studying out Kabala, I was like, "This is behind major geopolitical agendas." And why? Because there is a, uh, a whole system of belief found in Kabala that leans into a concept called twin messiahs. And those twin messiahs are twin Leviathans. And Leviathan, in that belief system, becomes a messianic figure that is actually driving major geopolitical agendas. And the geopolitical agendas that it is driving, working towards the, uh, universal consciousness manifestation, align perfectly with political Zionism. And so when I started to unpack all of these things, I was like, "Where is up and where is down? What is happening?" And then you begin to see it also voraciously spread through the New Age. There's a reason for that. So maybe we'll start there because I said a mouthful, and then I'm going to let your questions kind of guide the unpacking of many concepts as we get into this thing. And I, you know, but, but there, there are a lot of occultists coming back to the 1800s, 1900s. A.E. Waite, we're talking about Albert Pike, we're talking about H.P. Blavatsky, we're talking about some of the most like renowned occultists that have come through, Eliphas Levi. All of these people were students of Kabala and other things, but Kabala is this stream of mysticism of spirituality that they all became extraordinary students of. Now, the interesting thing about H.P. Blavatsky is that she created the Theosophical Society, also concluding after all of her studies into black magic, the Babylonian mystery religion, Kabala, and other things, she concluded that the, uh, Jews, and I'm just going to use that term, uh, lightly, right? Those that were committed to Kabala as a, a type of spirituality, which is not all Jews, but the Kabbalists believing ones, that they had stolen the belief systems, the black magic, and the mysteries from the Chaldeans and codified it as Kabala. She believed from all of her studies that Kabala was the revealing of the mystery religion in a sense. And so they basically succeeded in bringing out this ancient, um, serpent-centered mystery religion into a, a foundation that could then be propagated to the masses. And, um, one of her, I guess you could say friends, people that were aligned with her, was Alice Bailey. Now, Alice Bailey was part of the Theosophical Society, and she's also a famous occultist that was able to channel one of the ascended masters, Djwal Khul. He, and this is, she's like well-known for that fact. So she would channel this being, high-ranking entity in the spirit world. She is also credited with starting something called the Lucifer Trust, which name was then later changed to the Lucis Trust to kind of disguise who was the power broker behind that trust. And she is the one that coined the term New Age. So the New Age is actually being launched by occultists. And one of the interesting things is that, and I, and I can provide you this, and if you want to flash it on the screen, so that people can see this one, I'll give you the picture. But the, uh, uh, uh, um, the emblem or the symbol of this Theosophical Society, which both Alice Bailey and H.P. Blavatsky were participants in, a cult society, is a major, massive snake, that's the Leviathan, eating its own tail. So it's an Ouroboros, and that Leviathan is eating its own tail. When you look at the top, it's actually what we call a swastika, which is a, a really, it's a much older symbol than the swastika that was used by the Nazis. They borrowed it from India. It has this rich, long history, but it's eating its own tail with the swastika at the top. And inside of the circle, you have a six-pointed star, the same star Israel puts on its flag, the hexagram. And inside of that six-pointed star, you have an Ankh. That's a symbol of the Theosophical Society. And I, I think that's very significant because when you begin to understand the, the underpinnings of the Theosophical Society and, and what comes through that and into, uh, Alice Bailey, who then coins the term New Age, is they're bringing a belief system into a manifestation for public consumption because it's an, it's an initiation protocol authored by the kingdom of darkness to basically recruit a lot of people to something that they can use for their agenda, but that people won't fully understand. And the major power broker behind a lot of that is this big entity, this massive snake that we can call Leviathan, who's actually totally exposed in the Bible as a chaos monster and an enemy of God. So, I'll pause there and, uh, we can.

>> Yeah, let's clean up some traits. Make sure you get all of this, too. >>

>> Yeah, I have, I do have a question, but if you're wanting to go on some things, I don't want to get in the way of that. >>

Let me just rapid-fire some questions so that we sync everyone together. Um, Hebrew Roots, what is it? Now, Hebrew Roots is, I think, at the surface level, an attempt for people to better understand their Christian faith by looking at the Torah, by fully unpacking the, the, the meaning behind the law, the Levitical, uh, the book of the law that was given, you know, under the Levitical priesthood. They want to understand their Christian walk through a more Hebrew perspective. And I think that's the selling line. Usually, what happens when people get into the Hebrew Roots movement is they're kind of, uh, given this like selling point. "Why do you celebrate Easter? That's Ishtar. Why do you celebrate Babylonian holidays? Why do you use a Gregorian calendar when you have a Hebrew calendar that's actual times and seasons of God?" So, you're, you know, you get some of these things. You know, you could, we have all these feasts in the Bible. Those are biblically endorsed. They're the feasts of Yahweh. They're, they're established forever. Why don't you do that rather?" So then people say, "Oh, that's a very good question. I don't know why I do that." And then we begin on this path to understand more and more. But many people that begin taking this path, they'll have different stopping points. And some don't. Not all, but some Hebrew Roots people wind up all the way in the law, actually like wearing a tzitzit and, um, even males, like, uh, you know, cutting the foreskin, like, you know, to become like cultural Jews according to the law. You can go that far. And then some people find different stopping points.

>> Got it. And I'm going to have more questions for that later. Um, Leviathan, for people who don't know what that term means, what does that mean? >>

So, Leviathan is revealed as an enemy of God in multiple locations. Job 41 reveals Leviathan as king over all the children of pride. This guy is a major demonic prince in the heavens. Leviathan is not only revealed in the Bible as an enemy of God. He is revealed in LeVay Satanism as one of the four, like, commanders and chiefs. Um, he's also revealed in Peter Binsfield, the Seven Princes of Hell, uh, along with six others. Leviathan is the principality. Peter Binsfield in the 1500s listed as being behind envy. Um, you, so, so, so Leviathan actually does, even in the cultist world, sit at the top of their spiritual hierarchy from their perspective. But in Christianity also, from our perspective, you can't be the king over all the children of pride and not have an elevated seat relative to what's going on in the kingdom of darkness. And the book of Isaiah 27, in verse 1, we learn that God will punish the fleeing serpent, the twisted serpent, and will slay the reptile that is in the sea. This is how we know Leviathan is absolutely an enemy of God. Now, in Judaism, they don't understand the serpent in the garden as Satan like we do in Christianity. In Judaism, and in Kabala, and I'm going to actually now go into this part of it as so as we could start to unpack what Kabala means and why this is going to make a lot of sense. In Kabala, um, you have a reinterpretation of the serpent as Leviathan. They, they see the serpent being Leviathan, not, not Satan. They, to, to the, if, if you were to talk about Judaism or Kabala, they would say, "Well, okay, the serpent, we believe that's a serpent. Yes, Satan just means accuser. So, what's Satan? Which accuser? There could be many accusers, but Leviathan is the serpent." And so, they would interpret the Genesis 3 passage as Leviathan was in the garden. But this is what happens that's really interesting. So we come back to Kabala as a creative template. What they believe is that God is an unknowable God, and they call it just like Ein Sof or Sof. It's, it's like this limitless light, and it's unknowable, which is contrary to the Christian belief that God wants to be known by his creation, and he sent Jesus to make sure that we saw the Father. And so they have a different God. It, this God is unknowable and is everywhere. So how can you create if you're everywhere? Well, you have to create a void. So they call that Tzimtzum, and it's a contraction. And so in himself, he creates this void, and then he sends light into the void as a creative power. And just like if you took your cell phone and plugged it into the power plant that powers your whole city, and so what that power would do to your cell, it would blow it up. You have to use transformers to step down power. Those are the Sefirot in the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. They are transformers that step down power. But in the creative template, you're stepping down power from the higher realms of the spirit world to the lowest realm, which is Malkuth, which is the earth plane, the 3D realm. Everything else in that Kabbalistic Tree, when you look at it through its lens as a creative template, becomes spirit world and then earth at the bottom. So you have the light come in, the first manifestation or place where it goes is the Sefirah called Keter, which is Crown. And then it goes like a lightning bolt through this tree. You have a male side of the tree and a female side of the tree. They call it mercy and severity, or Chesed and Gevurah. And, uh, then you have the center line. And you have, and you guys will probably need to show, as I'm talking about this, like an image of the Kabala, just so your listeners can, like, understand what I'm talking about. But the, uh, the light goes through all of these Sefirot. Each time it goes through a Sefirah, it's stepping down in power. So that is, in their view, how God creates everything. And, um, they, they call them the vessels. The Sefirot become the vessels. And Keter, as that first Sefirah or transformer, becomes a concept they call Adam Kadmon, which is the primordial man. He's not physical. He's not physical at all, and he's like this prototype. Well, you go all the way through, and each of those Sefirot have a meaning, and then you get to Malkuth, which is Earth. That's the physical manifestation. And when they interpret that through Genesis 1:1 lens, this is what they say. They say, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." That is translated *Bereshit* with a *bet* at the beginning. They would say that's, this is a second creation. There was an *aleph*. This is the *bet* *berit*. *Barah* is created. *Elohim*. Now they take *Elohim* in that context not to mean the triune creator God like Christians do. They say these are spirit beings or just like a, uh, a god for this world in some sense. So *Elohim* becomes the one created, not the creator, in the Kabbalistic reinterpretation of Genesis 1:1. So, *Bereshit* *Barah* *Elohim*, an unknown, unknowable God. We call him Ein Sofh. In the beginning created *Elohim*, heaven and earth. And so now we actually remove the creator status of God. We disintermediate God as creating through Jesus. And this deals with *alefs* in Genesis 1:1 because, and let me just explain this part because this is very important. All this is very important. Um, *alef* is untranslated throughout the Old Testament. You have *alefs* all over the Old Testament. They're not translated. You don't know where they are without an interlinear like study help. *Alef* is interpreted to us by Jesus in the New Testament as a major key that unlocks the whole Old Testament to the Christian because Jesus says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega." Alpha and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. Well, in Hebrew, the first and last letters are *Alef*. So anywhere you see *alef* is from Genesis to Malachi. All throughout the Old Testament, when you begin to see the *alefs*, you see Jesus at work everywhere. In the beginning, you have two *alefs*. You have one between *Elohim* and heavens, and one between heavens and earth. What that means is John 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, and he did it through Jesus, who is the Word, and without him nothing was made that was made." So you see Jesus and you see God as creator in Genesis 1:1. In Kabala, they change all of that.

>> Mhm. >>

>> And now you disintermediate Jesus completely. *Elohim* becomes almost like a created being, and now you have heaven and earth. And then you get to the garden where God is creating Adam. But what they believe is these vessels, the Sefirot, were in a primordial sense shattered. And now in Malkuth, from here, there's this second Adam, which is the physical Adam of Genesis 3, that's being used to repair the vessels or establish a repair of the worlds. And he is to do that task with helpers. They believe those helpers are the animals that God puts in the earth, which are under his dominion. This is a completely different understanding, completely different worldview. One of the things that you map with Leviathan is he twists everything. Everything, whether it's relationships or scripture, Leviathan is always a twisting serpent. So they would then say, um, the kosher serpent doctrine, which is the serpent in Kabala, is in the garden there as a redemptive agent sent to help man establish *Tikkun*, which is the repair of these worlds. He's not an enemy of God or of man. And that's Leviathan. And so Leviathan is the victim of Adam's misappropriations in their view. The kosher serpent doctrine is established because of Gematria, which says Messiah, when you take those Hebrew letters and break them down to their numerical values, and *nachash*, which is serpent, when you take those Hebrew letters and break them down to their numerical value, you add both words up, they equal the same number. So they use Gematria as Kabbalistic sorcery to establish that that means Adam magnified the identity of the, the *nikos* to a messianic role. This is what they actually believe. So the, the, the *nachash* is supposed to be a Messiah figure working with Adam to repair creation. And then Adam does something stupid and unbalances the Tree of Life by taking from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. And then this poor snake gets taken over by Samuel to be ridden like a camel. "Thank you, Adam, for ruining my life." And now they have this whole prophetic, uh, uh, uh, um, vantage point derived from the Zohar, which suggests that beginning at 1840, roundabouts, there would be this reemergence of the Leviathan serpent in his messianic role to guide man through the mysteries of Kabala, merged with the technological aspect of developing sciences to establish the repair of the worlds, essentially engineer our own immortality and ascend into universal consciousness. Let me translate real quick. Not that you need it, but when people hear this sometimes they're like, "That's just so crazy." It's not that crazy. Um, when you want to pervert something, you typically go after the bookends. And Jesus used bookends all the time. Like the Beatitudes have bookends, Genesis has bookends, and there's this, the beginning and the end thing happening. And so anything that perverts or deceives is usually going to leave the middle unmessed with and pervert the bookends because there's so much truth inside the middle that people don't catch that it's not the truth. And so this is what hap, what you're talking about. You go creator to created, and then that's the beginning of the bookends, and then you change the purpose at the end. Like they have this like *tycoon* idea of like, what's the purpose of someone is you reincarnate until you're perfect. Um, and that was what Jesus was, was the final reincarnate version of a man that was ascended into godhood. So they changed the beginning, they changed the end, everything in the middle is sort of left untouched. And so when you weave in Hebrew Roots, I think it's why Christians don't catch it because if it's Hebrew, >>

>> Mhm. >>

>> It must be godly. It must be biblical. It must be something that we can use without realizing that actually, if you change the ends, then that's why I think Hebrew Roots is a bad news bears. >>

>> Well, and >>

>> I'm pushing you deeper down. And what I want to do is I don't want to disintermediate listeners and, and like start offending people with certain, because there, it's, it's so easy with this. >>

>> Leave that to me. >>

>> Okay. All right. >>

>> You can do it. You could do it. >>

But, but this is the thing. So, so what I just said is called the kosher serpent doctrine. So, so, so the interesting thing is, everything I just said has receipts. People could go to Kabbalah.org and find they're saying exactly what I just said. They can go and research Kabala teachers. They will find that they are saying exactly what I, they won't even argue with my points. It's just that when you begin to juxtapose their points with the traditional views of Christianity in a, in a single conversation, everything begins to come into view, and, and it actually raises a lot of red flags. Like, "Whoa, wait a minute. These people that are teaching Kabala are actually rooted in a belief system that has placed the serpent in a messianic role." That's kind of scary. >>

>> Yeah. >>

>> Now, I'm going to explain the twin Leviathan aspect. >>

>> Pause. Did you need to fix something? Are you. >>

>> I was, I was just clarifying. I might have misheard, but it sounded like you said, did you say Jesus was the final, what did you say Jesus was the final incarnation? What, what did you say there? I might be skipping ahead of Dan's point, but this is where you, this is where you end up in, because I've read all the, I have the Zohar, unfortunately. If you're, if you're a high-level entrepreneur, like you have read Manly P. Hall, Walter Russell, you've probably gotten into some of the, the Kabbalah was a super popular book, like, so I sort of know where it ends up. >>

>> To a Kabbalist, Jesus isn't God. >>

>> Right. Okay. >>

>> He's, um, he's, he's the one who came, it was like his final reincarnation. And it was like he perfected his, like, they have this, this term is called like your *tycoon*, which is like your purpose is to essentially >>

>> Fix the character defects that you had in the last life, and you just do it. You get better and better and better and better and better and better. Then you sort of ascend to this place where you're perfect. >>

>> Um, so the beginning for a Christocentric worldview, Christian, the beginning is Jesus, and then the end is Jesus, but as creator, savior, God. That's what I'm talking about with the book is, is like, there's not Jesus at the beginning. There is Jesus at the end, but not as God, just as a person. Have you gotten into this stuff as well? >>

>> No, you're doing it great. Does that answer. >>

>> That? Does I had one other question, but if you have somewhere you want to go, I don't want to interrupt it. >>

>> No, you're good. This is, I think, a really important episode and I'm. >>

>> I wanted to, so I wanted to ask, what is the main reason that people get into Kabala? Because people get into Christianity, like, I would say a very macro, oversimplified view would be like, they just, they want salvation. We want salvation. We don't want the negative on the other side. We want life. We want to be saved. What is the, what is it that people get out of Kabala from joining it, or what's the, what's the bait? >>

>> Did you fall into Kabala? >>

>> No. >>

>> I would be the only one in the room that could probably answer that question unless you want to tackle it from the victims. But for the exact same reasons that people get into Christianity, you want life. You want, but you want control. You want, you want to use the secrets of, of, of God, not to submit to God and to, uh, to die for God, but you want to create power over your life and your circumstances. It's power. >>

>> Mhm. >>

>> And there's a reason why you can derive power from Kabala because it's much more than just a system of philosophy because any philosophy is no, like, more powerful than like the, the words themselves. Like, but there is a power behind Kabala that's unique, and it's because this, this pattern, this shape, this Tree of Life, as they call it, the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, is not just an idea. It's a superstructure in the spirit world. And for that reason, it is also used by some of the highest levels of Luciferians, sorcerers, etc., for their magical workings and their rituals. And it serves as an extraordinary programming template. So, so, so if someone was programmed by like a Mangala, if someone was programmed by the Jesuit order, if someone is programmed within the Illuminati, they're all basically going to have this system sitting somewhere deep inside the entire Kabala tree. And the rituals to install the Kabala tree are awful. I mean, they're really sadistic. Um, you know, and, and, and painful. And the people that have survived them, and then to get their memories back, I've had to do some of that work with folks and, um, it, it, and so for that reason, like, it's not just, it's not just entrepreneurs obviously that are going to use the system. It's people that know its magical properties and how powerful the pattern and the, the, the belief system surrounding it is. There's a reason why H.P. Blavatsky, A.E. Waite, Manly P. Hall, Albert Pike, all these people are ardent students of this system. And I want to, I want to just call it a system of sorcery because it is essentially a counterfeit gate into the spirit world. It's its realms and its councils. And when you are able to ascend through the tree, and so this gets away more from the program and more from the initiation aspect of it. When you are able to ascend, you can get power from these realms, and you can also explore areas of the second heaven. And, and that, and that's where Merkaba mysticism comes in. Merkaba mysticism is Jewish spirituality. So now when we go back, say, to the Jewish perspective on Kabala, Kabala becomes the spiritual side of this. Many times, you, you hear people talk about it like, in Judaism, you don't start studying Kabala until you're a certain age. You have to be 40 years old or something like that. They suggest before you really start studying Kabala from that gate. And, uh, but there's a deep spiritual component where now you are interacting with the spirit world through that belief system and religion. They use Merkaba mysticism, and they anchor to Ezekiel, right? Where, or, um, not, not Ezekiel, I think it's Elijah. Elijah, he goes to the heaven in a chariot, or whatever. So the, so, so Merkaba mysticism is the chariot, but they use twin pyramids, and the idea is you use meditation practices to kind of take two pyramids around your soul and spin them in opposite directions, and in doing so, you can engage in a type of astral projection inside of the Merkaba. But when you are doing that, you're, their agenda is to go into the worlds of the Kabala tree, ascending, and then finding themselves meeting in different worlds with different councils, um, groups, entities. And so when you see the Kabala tree mapped, you'll see like, "This is the council that meets in Keter. This is the council that meets in Chokmah. This is the council that meets in Binah." This is the, like, they have the whole thing mapped. And so it's like a counterfeit ascension protocol where in Christianity, Jesus says, "I am the door." Any ascension I do in the spirit world, I do in Jesus. Like, Jesus is going to take me wherever I need to be. I'm not going to use some kind of astral vehicle to go into all kinds of areas of the second heaven that may be completely defiled or dangerous, even, or meet with entities that may completely, uh, defile my view of reality, or, uh, possess me, or whatever it is. But, um, in Kabala, you're, you're going through a different, you're not using Jesus at all. And you, you flood it with all this Hebrew wording, but at the end of the day, right, they're ascending, and then, um, the goal is to get higher in the tree through the counterfeit ascension protocol. So this is where a lot of the Jewish mysticism has gone. And, and once you get to a certain point in the tree, this is where you run into the abyss. Now, the abyss is referenced in different belief systems, including, I think, Freemasonry. You have to, you know, like, crossing the abyss, or whatever. The abyss in Kabala is the Da'at. That's the throat Sefirah. When you map it to the human body, they call that the knowledge. That's the point that's heavily associated with the Leviathan, universal consciousness application that's, that that comes through knowledge. When you cross the abyss in Kabala, you enter what they call the supernal triad. And that's where you're like a living, walking god on the earth. And you can manifest all you want. And you have this, but you have to cross the abyss first. This is deep, dark spiritual stuff that you have to do to get to that point. And really, you can't do something like cross the abyss without permissions, without buy-in from areas of the kingdom.

Of darkness entities, powerful entities. And so, yeah, the deeper a person would go into Cababala, uh, the more likely they're going to end up being partnered with very serious dark entities in order to continue their ascension agenda. Yeah, it's a it's a it's a Gordian knot, bro. Cuz it's a dot is the same word that my people are destroyed for lack of. It's the same exact word. And so people get tricked cuz they're like, "Well, if I'm destroyed for lack of dot and God's saying that's a bad thing, then if I pursue knowledge, that would be a good thing." And you go through this weird like uh the more you understand the more it sort of sucks you in. So it's uh it's a knot. So I kind of this is why I'm like fascinated. I want to untangle the knot.

Now I want to help you understand a little bit better and your listeners. So now now this is going to go very deep. Right. So Jake, are you freaking out right now? I I just have one question that I wanted to I like I'm trying not to ask as many questions because I'm trying to let you just go to get deep, but I just I I can see his blood pressure is going up. So, just it's difficult. I try to keep it at bay. Just super quick. I know that one of the things that you voiced on the show is you don't want to be known for sensationalism on the show. So, that's not my heart in asking this, but it there are people who have never seen this podcast as they're watching this episode. Um, and so maybe there's some people that are like, man, I don't even know if this is real, but I'm I'm willing to listen. Um, you have a lot of you have an interesting perspective on the stories that you have. You said people go through rituals, crazy stuff. Um, if it's too graphic, that's okay, but it'd be interesting just to hear one example of what it's like and what they're getting out of it on the other side cuz you're I'm assuming this is still happening right now.

Yeah. People are still doing the rituals. I'd be curious if one example of that just to kind of root it in like what people are literally doing modern day in the world and then Well, okay. So, so, so for instance, um when you map Cabala to the human body, um you may uh you you will have the male side and the female side of the tree, right? So, you have keter which is the crown that's like the head here. But then you have uh hookma and beina. Those are on respectively the like the right and left sides of the body around the ears and the shoulders. So in a ritual where a person is being programmed to put in a kabal aa template they may take the person tie them down and pull their arm out of their shoulder socket dislocate it torture them in that state and then put the bone back in. No drugs, no any painkillers, nothing. You're torturing the person. You are tearing their body apart. You're putting it back in. They may for the heart do something that causes the person to die. They actually kill them in the ritual. The heart stops. Then they use magic, demons, and maybe some actual like pads, put it on a chest, bring the person back to life, and then continue the torture and the ritual. um when they're doing yod, which is the the part that maps to the sex organs, for lack of better words, the kind of sexual tortures that they will do to a person or a child or a baby 3 months old are so graphic, I'm not going to say it on the podcast, but they are opening gates through torture and evil and bloodshed and the most heinous crimes against humanity in the process of installing this template into people for its power and and and and its ability to um have all kinds of mind control applications anchored into it and other things. It it it in the world of sorcery, Kabala is at the top when it comes to uh powerful templates with which to work.

Well, these are these are stories from victims that you've personally talked to. 100%. All right. Thank you. That's helpful. Not not every not everyone most most people who have dabbled in kabala probably haven't been through that. Sure. Um but I just want to put that out there too like cuz there are people watching this who have been like well I learned I went to a Cababala conference and they haven't gone through that. So it's that that would be more extreme. Correct. And and again we're going to talk about Kabala. It has so many context and frames of reference. So it has its context as a programming template. It has its context as a belief system that newagers are looking to to manifest more money in their lives. It it has different routes in which it's being brought out into public exposure. And so one doesn't equal the other.

Right. But it's the same tree of life. Okay. Keep going.

All right. So now I want to explain the twin Messiah aspect of Cababala, how it connects to Leviathan and and and why this matters when it comes to knowledge, universal conscious and movements towards the the the beast kingdom really Revelation 13 stuff. Um so Isaiah 27:1 says, "And in that day God will punish the fleeing serpent, that twisted serpent and slay the reptile that is in the sea." Now in Cababala, they will take Isaiah 27:1 and say there are twin messiahs because there are two Leviathans. Think Kadus, right? Where you have the the rod and then you have two snakes going up, right? So you have twin Leviathans, but in their belief system they they say, "Well, if God had allowed those two Leviathans to mate, they would have destroyed the world." Because Leviathan is like a primordial chaos monster. It it's so big and it can encircle the whole universe. It's an oraoros. And so what they believe is, well, God killed the female and castrated the male. And the male is now supposed to be this messianic figure while the female is like like preserved. And so this male nakash uh uh uh Leviathan in this belief system now uh is because of what Adam did in their belief system is is under some kind of subjugation until a point in world history where he's going to overcome that around circa AD uh 1840. And now he's going to arise into his proper role as a messianic figure that's going to help man engineer his own immortality, liberation, and ascension into universal consciousness. So he's going to work with the mysteries of Cababala, which means we have to initiate as many people around the world into Cababala as possible in whatever way we can, whether it's new age or whether it's Jewish mysticism or whether it's Hebrew roots or whatever we can get it into. Even dispensational premillennialism, like whatever we can get elements of this belief system into, we got to get as many people to buy into it as possible. And so with the twin messiahs, they call them Messiah Ben David and Messiach Ben Yseph. These two messiahs are in Kabala called twin messiahs, twin Leviathans. And they each have a role. Meshi ben Yoseseph is supposed to basically lead the world to the point where there is a manifestation of the future kingdom, a deployment of the mysteries of the Torah so that Messiach ben David, the other twin Messiah, can come in and give the world the deepest teaching of Torah possible, which they call uh like Rames ha uh mezraim or I I I I I butchered that one. But um something like that. It's the deeper it's deeper than sod in in in in Torah revelation. They say only this guy this this Leviathan this Messiah Messi Ben David can teach this. But first the world has to be prepared for that. And so this other twin Messiah has to take the world through this progression of steps. This is the onboarding of technology. This is also uh political Zionism because the seat of everything that's going to be built has to be Israel and Jerusalem. So you have to actually have political Zionism fully deployed. It it has to work for and and and and what they believe is that twin Leviathan Messiah Ben Yoseseph they call him is Medatron is Medatron of uh uh uh the book of three which they call the little Yahweh and um he is the driver behind political Zionism in their view um to the end that they can bring in Messi and David that's going to bring universal consciousness. And so, so with that said, it's it's just so interesting and and I don't want to I'm just giving facts right now. I don't want to argue like points and but I'm just giving facts.

Uh, one of the things about Medatron is Medatron is the name of the Medatron cube. Medatron's cube is the six-pointed star you derive from the midst of the tree of life with the top at the and the bottom at Yod. And and again, it would be helpful probably for your listeners if you put up a picture of that so they could just see it. Like the six-pointed star then is also called the star of Reman, which is the same six-pointed star you find on the flag of Israel. It's it's that shape that sits in the midst of the kabala tree that is called the uh a metatron's cube and um it is six points, six sides and six faces which is where some people that have researched this have come away saying oh that is 666 that's the mark of the beast. Interesting point. People can look at that for themselves. Now, when you have the conclusion of the role of Messiah Ben Yoseseph, this Medatron character, this little Yahweh, you will have then the revealing of the Messiah Ben David, the other serpent, the other twin Leviathan Messiah figure that that now initiates the world into universal consciousness. But what they believe universal consciousness is is the three C's of consciousness. It is uh uh uh uh um culinary consciousness which has to do with like the consumption of food. It is uh uh carnal consciousness which is like sexual consciousness. And then there's one more which is like uh having to do with the mind. Um, and I forget what that C is at the moment, but it's uh it it's the third sea of consciousness. And this is what this um second messianic figure does. And he does it at an inception point they call the feast of Leviathan. And so they reinterpret now Isaiah 25 which says, "And in that day I will make a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the leaves." It talks about the covering uh of of nations, this massive feast that God makes. And they say, "This is what's happening here. You have Jerusalem, you have Israel, you have the manifestation of this final messianic figure, the second twin Messiah. He's going to give the world universal consciousness. And there's going to be a feast of Leviathan to inaugurate this new universal consciousness that is being brought in where they're going to basically eat the flesh of Leviathan. And when you really get into the deep understanding of what they believe this means, and you can actually pull this right out of a book called the Kolhhatur, which is the cry of the turtle dove. It's a book of cobalistic esquetology. Anyone could buy it and read it. I did. What you understand is they believe that the flesh that you are eating of Leviathan is actually the fallus. You're eating the serpent fallus and the skin the soot that covers the city that that they say the um the uh uh the nations will walk in the light of your shining or whatever. Like they believe that the covering around the city is actually the foreskin of the serpent fallus that shines. And so it's actually the serpent fallus that brings in this universal consciousness. Meaning Cababala at its core is actually a big sex cult. It's a big sex religion. It's centered on phallic worship. And it is the phallic worship, the eating and the consumption of the flesh of the fallus that ultimately brings the universal consciousness they want to move people into.

I've heard the three C's as um there might be different models. I've heard the three C's is like carnal consciousness then conscious awareness which is like universal consciousness and then Christ consciousness which is what's permeating the non Jesus not being a so this is a different model I'm assuming. Maybe. Different. Which maps to this the problem is like it all maps you can find stuff in the Bible to sort of twist and make it like Paul's talking about like body soul spirit they're like oh yeah the spirit's Christ consciousness the soul is conscious just awareness which is your mind taps into universal consciousness and then the body is carnal uh consciousness which is like so you can find it everywhere. Another interesting thing on the snake is um you said it's one pole with two snakes. The kaducus. The kaducus um again, it's like it has some roots inside of biblical analysis but then it's twisted. So it's like when Moses raised the pole with the snake around it and then people are worshiping it and then this is like basically maps to Greek mythology which is two snakes. And so I think Christians just get confused. They get so confused. And that's on purpose. That's on purpose because at the end of the day and this is what I I I tell people. It's like this is a system of sorcery that is being power brokered by a snake that the Bible describes as a twisting serpent. And what he does is he doesn't just make up stuff. He takes truth and twists it so it's maximally confusing.

Yeah, that that's what I meant to say. I was going to say I want to keep going, but where are you at? I'm solid. Where are you at? I'm solid. I'm following. Okay. um keep taking us on this journey.

Well, this whole conversation on universal consciousness is really big in new age. Mhm. Like that's the thing. It's like we got to raise the vibration of the planet and we have to, you know, do like frequencies and we have to, you know, um Like David Hawkins stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But again, what a lot of people, I think, are looking for when they get into new age is is is they're looking for answers. They're looking for power. They're looking for control. Um, and and they they they want fulfillment in different ways, right? And so, as Christians, we find all of that in Jesus. But the interesting thing about uh a lot of areas of Christianity is that when you remove the spirit and the power of God from a presentation of our belief system, you end up with a dead church. And so you have a lot of newagers that have come out of dead churches that are like, "Oh, I tried Jesus." But the representation of Jesus to them was massively lacking in answers and power and felt safety and all of these things. and they're like, "Yeah, I tried that. Maybe there's a better way to manifest. Maybe there's a better way to uh explain the things that I went through that they told me made me crazy." Because one of the things about New Age that I appreciate is that they do embrace people with a heart of care and compassion. It's like, I've been abducted by aliens. It's like, well, so was I. Look, be part of our club. We accept you for that. It's like, you know, demons show up and they tell me things. It's like, well, demons tell me things, too. Be part of our club. We'll accept you for that. You know, actually, we'll train you to walk out the real purpose that you have because if you just knew the power that was in you, you could do all of this stuff. So, we're going to train you in crystals and we're going to train you to work with elementals and we're going to train you to do this and do that and and you'll have control over your life finally. Maybe maybe you'll actually be able to be with the person that you want to be with rather than all these losers that don't respect you for who you are. So, like it's like, "Oh, I want all of that." And he's like, "We can give you that with these ascension protocols and philosophies that are backed by spiritual power. We're not going to tell you what spiritual power per se. You don't need to know that. Just do this." And so you see people starting to wear these cabbala bracelets and you see people going to these, you know, ascension things and past lives uh explorations with, you know, yogi masters and stuff like but uh you know it it's like this eclectic blend of spiritualities in new age, right? It's not new age. It's not all Cababala, but there is a pronounced influence from Cababala that's moved into new age.

And most of it is going over and through the filters because most of it has a basis rooted in in truth somewhere. Mhm. And this is why I wanted to do this episode because before we started, I was like, if you wanted to learn about kabala, who do you learn it from? Yeah. A coalist. Exactly. And your fact detection can't pick up on all of the deception right away because it's true. Yes. But then it's twisted in a way that will eventually kill you. Reminds me of the scripture like there is a way that seems right to man but in the end it leads to death. That is all of this stuff. It seems really right because it has a basis in truth, but then you get to the end of it and you have to be freed from it. You can't get out of it.

Um, and I'm sure you found this a lot. People are like, I can't get out of it now. I'm stuck in it. Right. And and what happens is people take a path, right? They start off and it's it's you I mean, okay, so we'll bifurcate. Some people are coming into the new age that have already been programmed and completely dissociative of what kind of crimes have been perpetrated against them. The initiations they've gone through with satanic groups and other things. And so they're like hyperpowered. All of their cobbleotry is functioning and suddenly they say, "You know what? In my presenting consciousness, I want to follow this belief system." And they step in and boom, they're like on level 10 immediately and they're like, "Wow, this is really working." And you know, then you have all the people that aren't in that category and they're like trying to open all of these pathways up for the first time maybe and so it's a slower path and they have to work really hard at some of this stuff. Um, bloodline iniquity can also play a huge role in how fast people uh can can get to higher levels and of power and manifestation all in in these in these things. But um you you do have these different categories, but you know, so people are going in and they're they're they're being uh uh told things like, well, you know, I mean, I know your ignorant Christian friend thinks everything is a demon, but these aren't demons we're working with. These are energies. And can I tell you something, Taylor? One of the biggest challenges dealing with Christians is is the level of ignorance. Because you know I I've I've had so many conversations said so many people we've solved problems that were never like not solved for other people in other contexts. You know I have people that went through 10 deliverance ministries couldn't get a breakthrough on something and it came to us. Thank God we figured it out. There was a grace for it. And what I realize in all of these things is it's based on the fruit. Is that Christians have a lot of positions of ignorance that actually block our ability to be relevant. One of those is saying everything's a demon, which it's not. And what I want to actually talk about because it's relevant to new age is elementals and energies. because this part gets Christians tangled up and disintermediated from the conversation immediately cuz people get into stuff and they're like, "Oh, well, Reiki is just moving energies." Or I'd use these crystals because I'm moving energies. There's no demons involved in the crystal. The crystal is just a rock. It's just something I can focus on to like move some stuff. But it's not it's not a demon. And and and Christians like, "Oh, I don't understand that. It's witchcraft. It's a demon." There is a conversation in the Bible on something called dunamis. Often translated power. Such an interesting word study. Until I did the word study on dunamis. I could never understand energies. I didn't get it. I was right in that group of people that was like, well, that's probably demonic because I see people going into bondage when they start to do some of these practices. But I can't be nuanced in the way that I explain what's happening and based on their belief system and understanding things. Like these are quantum principles. Like what do you mean demons? Like this is this is quantum. So dunamis is this interesting word which keeps throughout the New Testament being translated in different ways. Like they keep translating it as other words. So when you're looking at dunamis in the English, it's not like it it wouldn't even be clear to the reader that that would probably be the same word you read because they teach change in the English word. One of the first places you find dunamis is when Jesus tells his disciples, you know, uh when the Holy Ghost has come upon you, you receive power from on high and you're going to go out and preach the gospel, right? And so that power that comes from God is dunamis. And it's energy. It's the energy of God's spirit that comes upon those disciples in the upper room and then they go out and begin to minister in power. But the interesting thing is that like when I was presented with this in Bible school, the only application of dunamis I thought there was was the power of God to preach the gospel. I didn't know about a word study on dunamis. And when I God brought me to this and he's like look uh I because I was working through the elemental I did a whole series on elementals for like three months and um this was born out of some things and and and uh and God was like now we got to talk about energies and he took me to Dunamis and he's like now do the word study and so I went from that passage but then I said oh there's other applications for example in Acts chapter 3 in Acts chapter 3 they raise a man that can't walk and now is walking. Apostle Peter says, "Why do you marvel? Do you think we did this out of our own power?" And what you get from that is there is a dunamis of God that does the miracle. And there is a dunamis of man that does not have the power to do the miracle. But it is a power inherent to man. There is energy that is inherent to each of us. individually. It's it's really interesting. Now, now you keep going through the New Testament when the Bible says that the manifestation of the beast, the antichrist is with all power and signs and lying wonders of Satan. It actually uses the word dunamis, which means fallen angels have a dunamis independent of God, independent of man. When the Bible says of Jesus in Revelation 1 that he is like the sun shining in all of its brilliance, it is the word dunamis, meaning the sun has an energy independent of fallen angels, God and man. um in the book of Hebrews there's another use of the term where uh the writer of Hebrews is talking about what people have overcome and he said you know in one sense they overcome the violence of fire I believe it's in Hebrews chapter 13 like the violence of fire and this is kind of a reference to Shadrach Meshach and Abednego in in the book of Daniel like they were thrown in the fire and the violence of the fire was overcome it says dunamis which means that the elemental that is fire has an energy independent of God, independent of man, independent of fallen angels, independent of the sun. And and and what we realize is that there's actually dunamis allocated to all various aspects of God's creation. Those things that we would consider beings, those things that we would consider elementals. Interestingly enough, the sun is a heavenly elemental, the earth is an earthly elemental, or the fire is an earthly elemental. What that means is when you begin to look at what newagers are trained to do with things like feathers and crystals and candles is they are used to focus. They're trained to focus on these elementals to do magic to make things happen. Why does that work? because they are borrowing on the energies, the literal dunamis of the elemental kingdoms. So you have elemental witches, they it is the manipulation and actual hijacking of God's creation, but it's not just demons. There's actually a much deeper thing that's going on when people are being uh groomed into these kinds of practices, white witchcraft things, and and and you know, you say, "Well, I know I don't need a demon to focus on this thing or you know, and it's like, but when you begin to move energies, work with energies, and try to get things to happen, what you find is that there will be deficits. There is a deficit in man of dunamis. And so you need some kind of power broker to get behind what you're moving. And that's where people really begin to on board the demonic because if they're not getting that dunamis from Holy Spirit or God, they got to get it from somewhere. Now we talk about fallen angels. Now we talk about demonic helpers. Uh we talk about ancestral spirits, familiar spirits, um guardians. People are onboarding these guys now to then make their magical workings go through because they need the extra power and and and and and so it's it's a dark path now because now you are going deeper and deeper and deeper into a kingdom that is not holy. And while you may be seeing more results, you're also going into more bondage. You're opening doors with legal access and rights. And until those doors are closed and effectively dealt with, people can walk away from a journey through new age with all kinds of problems. Now, like stuff doesn't go right in their lives. Stuff is like they're harassed in their dreams. They're harassed in their daylight time. They all kinds of stuff. And they're like, "What do I do?"

Gary. Mhm. Jake, you want to bring us down to more? You want to ground us for a second? because I'm just going to keep pestering him with questions. One thing that I thought would be interesting to get y'all's both of your perspectives on is um you mentioned there is this sense of like people are looking for a place to go when they're having crazy experiences or they want something and the church doesn't know what to do with them. And you said one of the most annoying things essentially is like the Christians are ignorant. And so I'd be curious from both of y'all's perspectives as people who deeply care about this change coming to not only the church, but more importantly just society at large. Like when we say the church, it's really us. It's we are the body of Christ. We are the church. Um I'd be curious on what you guys would see in terms of when people come and they come to the new age and it's like hey we got you. You're in like it's okay. What do you guys What do you guys How do you guys interact with people whether it's circumstances you don't understand or you don't have context for? Um what does that look like to give those people either a place of belonging or uh direct them? It's hard. I don't know how exactly how to formulate the question, but I feel like there might be some interpretation you guys can bring to that.

Okay, I guess I'll you do it first. So I think you know this is the thing that I want like I I I would just want your listening audience to know that um I believe God receives us wherever we are. So Jesus he doesn't care about our past. He cares about how can I love you right where you are right now. How can we offboard you from a path of destruction and get you on board with a path that's going to lead to life and and and and love and the outpouring of grace and mercy? Like Jesus cares. He wants you to break rank with powers of darkness that want to destroy your life. And so as his hands and feet, I believe that it's like my job to help with that process. So, one of the things that I think we've been able to do at Bride Ministries is provide a lot of clarity. You know, it's like we're not just going to look at people that are coming out of this background and be like, "You're crazy because you don't agree with my belief system." My my actual effort is I understand that you went in this path. Actually, I understand the pain points that you're now struggling with because you took this journey. We want to help get you out of the pit. Maybe you dug for yourself in your own ignorance or that was dug for you because there you were surrounded by people that were into this world and they just walked you into it. It it wasn't even really your choice. You were surrounded by it. But Jesus is here to help. And um so we try to clarify, help, understand, and then bring the delivering power of Jesus to break the strangleold the kingdom of darkness has so people can have peace again. Yeah. Can you reframe the question so I can not repeat his answer?

Um, Christians seem to be notorious at pushing people away from their own religion. How do we fix that?

Um, well, you're trying to get me in trouble, aren't you? No, I mean not on purpose. This is a trap. I thought this was actually a trap, bro. Every day. I thought you would actually enjoy the question. I thought you would appreciate it. Really? Whoa. Okay. I have a my my view on this and I'm open to being corrected and um and I think you should correct me if I'm wrong on this Dan because I think you have more experience with the with the um the fruit of counterfeit than I do. You've seen it more than I have. I'm not a deliverance minister. Um but when you start talking about uh Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu or cobalists or extremely religious Christians, I tend to sort of flatten them all in the similar Cassie. Um, I don't necessarily see like when you see Paul in Colossians and he's talking about the image of the invisible God, the people of Colassi, he's like these people are um really struggling like worshiping angels. Um, some of them are worshiping angels, some of them are just trying to keep Jewish legalism alive. And he just flattens them all into the same boat. And he's talking about Jesus as the image of the invisible God. and uh through him like he goes back and he talks about Jesus who he is. So I think the the delineating factor is when you look at new age or other religions they all have an opinion on Jesus. All of them factor Jesus into their equation somehow. Everyone factors in Jesus. You can't get around it. You can't avoid it. But a lot of the mistakes come when they view Jesus as like a rung on the ladder. So Christ consciousness shows up in new age. They don't deny that Jesus or Christ was a legitimate figure per se. Um when you look inside of uh Muslim religion, they have a tremendous amount of respect for Jesus. Uh they love Jesus. They they probably they might have more respect for Jesus than some Christians do. Um, when you look inside of the the Buddhist operating system, they embody suffering the way Jesus did, better than probably 90% of Christian. They all have they all have these viewpoints on it. But then true Christianity comes and says Jesus is actually not a rung on the ladder. He's the latter. So inside of the ladder, you have all of these different organizational principles that that it's not necessarily a problem to understand them. It's a problem when you begin to use him to get something. I think what I'm trying to tackle and I'm trying to answer is if if Christians were less interested in conversion, which I know people are hating on me right now because I'm like, I don't care if you are a Christian or not. So, I'm doing this. My point in saying that is like I'm never going out into events or teaching and trying to convert people to Christianity. I want I'm trying to get them to have a conversation with Jesus. And when you have a conversation with Jesus, a real one, you're not um it's not like channeling. It's it's a it's a philosophical physiological restructuring of your worldview. And all of a sudden, Jesus, you realize he kind of encompasses everything. When Jesus is the gate, though, you can't get into to the father except through the gate. I think Jesus is actually a redemption of of all of the different ways that people try to find life. They're trying to find life through meditation. They're trying to find life through new age magic. They're trying to find life through uh self suffering, Buddhism. They're trying to find life through um the appreciation of nature and the Hinduist Hindu philosophy. When you when you get to Jesus, you realize that all of those things are are fine. Like, do you know what do you you know what a Muslim does when they get to Jesus as their Messiah and friend in God? They worship Jesus the same way that their culture programmed them. They show you the ruthless devotion of what it looks like to bow low three times a day. And when when a Buddhist gets to Jesus as their savior, they worship Jesus the same way that the culture trained them. You see suffering as part of how they worship God. Am I answering your question? I'll keep going.

When you see a um when you see a newager get to Jesus, they they worship this the same way. They pop into this like ruthless, not afraid of anything. They'll tackle any discussion and their their faith is so high. They have the mustard seed faith. It just takes over everything. Well, that comes from new age. That that's what they're trained to do is all runs on faith. When a Hindu gets to Jesus, it's like this beautiful appreciation for creation and nature and all these things. So Jesus is like redeems it all through a facet of who God is. But it's because the way that you saw Jesus changed. She's no longer a realm on the ladder. He's the whole ladder now. And that reorganizes everything. And I think that by itself closes a lot of doors. Um that's why I think Christians should we should stop trying to convert everyone. And we should start trying to get people to just like have conversations with Jesus. And what what Christians actually do have inside of um true Christianity is we learn how to forgive the way Jesus forgave. And we learn how to see Jesus as our um as a personal relationship to God. He's not some distant disinterested figure. Um I actually I I don't I don't know exactly like how to answer that question without saying like we're just doing it all wrong. Um that's why we push everything away because we're so so afraid of everything. But you don't see Paul doing that. You see Paul being like I'm going to become all things to all people. You see Jesus taking his disciples to the temple of Pan and he's like they're like what are we doing here? how how is this allowed? And um he's like, "Yeah, know we have dominion over this too, you know." Um does that answer your question? We're rambling around a little bit.

Yeah. I think the way that I would I would finish that would be like, do you feel like the biggest reason uh Christians will struggle with people from Cabal or New Age is because they don't know what to do with people who are powerful? I don't know. I can say that as somebody who is I've I've had to actually repent to a new age friend of mine where I didn't know what to do and I was like well you're just wrong and I acted in such ignorance. I'm friends with that person now but I had to literally make it right. Uh because I didn't know what to do cuz they were like well what I do works and I didn't I had no I didn't have no theological argument to come up against them. I was just like I didn't know what to do.

Yeah, I mean you know it it's it kind of like speed like does speed work? Like if you take a like the drug, will it work? Yeah. Yes. Yeah, it works. Yeah. Cocaine works. Yeah. So does meth. It doesn't mean that the side effects aren't destructive to the person. Yeah. And I think that's one of the ways that I look at it because I have people I have sat down with powerful people in the occult world. I I I've sat down with people who have gone so deep into elemental magic, at least in their cult loyal parts, uh that they can create storms in the physical world, drive weather patterns, um cause minor earthquakes like that. They they have that much initiation and power in that kingdom. Um and you know what? Jesus is getting them set free of that stuff. And it's like, yeah, you may have had the pop, but what did it cost you? And and and that is, I think, the central question. And and sometimes when you first start on a drug, you don't know the negative effects it's having because you're still just enjoying those robust highs. It's like, oh yeah, I don't see any consequences for doing this cocaine now. Uh I just started 3 weeks ago and it's fantastic. It's best thing since sliced bread. It's like, okay, but let's see where this takes your life in 10 years. Yeah. And and and that can be the same draw of like some of this stuff where people they don't see it until one day they wake up and it is a pit of like torment.

Yeah. And it makes that even more complicated because we're dealing on an eternal timeline. So then what are the eternal ramifications? Yes. Then you are like then you don't have any time to fix it. Like you want to talk about oops like well my life was pretty good because I was able to control what I wanted and I got rich and I got power and I was able to create everything that I wanted to create. And it's like okay well what did Jesus what is what's Jesus say about that? What does Jesus say the life of a Christian is like? What does Jesus say the kingdom of heaven? He's like we're talking about the first shall be last and the last shall be first. And so if we know that eternally we're going to have a flipping That's pretty pretty damaging if you're like my whole life I sold out to this thing and now at the end it's too late and I can't fix it.

And that's a you this and this is the thing right one of the things the Bible describes this life as is like a vapor. Mhm. It it it is over and you know it's like when you are old and your life can your whole life can flash before your eyes in like a second that gives you a perspective of life from a heavenly perspective and people can get so stuck in like well I want to get this today I want to have this power I want to have this I want to have that. None of it we can take with us, right? But what we do take with us is our resume of what we did with our tenure on the earth. And then we have to stand before a judge who's going to look at what we did and make a judgment call. That is God. And that's why we we we we can expand the conversation, I think, to a conversation on on heavenly scrolls. Because interestingly enough, when people come from a place of pain and trauma and hurt, they're looking for power over their environment, power over their circumstances, power over their place of pain, and they're trying to find it. And the devil is very good at giving people control or the perspective that they have control even if it's an illusion. Um, as long as it feels like it and he'll sell them on a counterfeit. But what happens when a person walks into like the full scope of the a counterfeit pursuit like like pursuit of their purpose is they get to the end of it and they're unsatisfied, right? They have five cars and they're like, "After I bought the sixth Porsche, I'm still not satisfied." You know, they they may have addiction cycles, but they're not happy. Um, and and all the things that a lot of times people thought would make them happy, when they do it outside of their purpose, they're really not satisfied or happy with it. It's a big like the balloon just pops at the top and and so people keep looking for well what did I miss? What more can I buy? What more can I gain access to? Uh you know sometimes people are really corrupted at that point because they start to pursue things that just cause hurt and pain for other people. But God in the Bible says before I formed you in your mother's womb I knew you. uh to Jeremiah and and and and and it says, "All of the days of our lives were written when as yet there were none of them." And one of the things that I know for a fact for me is that God knew what he sent me here to do before he sent me. And that was written down. He wrote that down. He said, "This is Daniel's life. This is what he's designed to do. This is why I'm sending him in." And then he sent me with a plan. So when I get here and I consult my maker for his instruction manual on why I'm here, I connect with divine purpose. And divine purpose brings satisfaction whether I have $1 or whether I have $100 million because I am connected to something higher than my momentary experience. And that anchoring it it it it is a source of life. And what people are really looking for is life. Like you can make all this money, but if it's plugged into death, you just feel dead. You can have the job you always thought you wanted, get that job, work it 5 years, and you feel dead inside. People are looking for what makes me come alive. Uh drugs can give people that for a moment. You know, I it's like, "Oh, I feel so alive for a moment until you get pulled into an air of the astral plane. You meet the demigorgan and it's like my life is ruined. It followed me right out of my eye and now I've been running from this thing for the last year. Who could stop this stuff?" Like, you know, there we're looking for life. And that's where Jesus comes in because he says, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." And then he says,"No one comes to the father but through me." And it's like through Jesus, we can connect with divine purpose and that's what brings fulfillment. And I think that's like one of the most powerful ways I I found to communicate to folks that are like looking because that's what they're looking for. And it's like, yeah, you looked it here, you look for it there, but it's in Jesus. And they know that once they I think we all know that at the at the ground level. We sort of know, don't we? I do. Most people do. Most people do. All right. Keep going. I'm going to reset us in.

Right. The I The reason I love this discussion so much is because um I accidentally got into this world. I wasn't like it's it's not a it's not a some levels you get recruited into but some are just like there's knowledge and I have a I think God gave me a brain that just consumes everything and and I'm always trying to figure out how to use things. So it's probably 2018 when I got the Cabalian read that um the medics it's a book learned hermetics I was like whoa this makes a lot of sense this is like sort of like physics and there's duality and and then you know that that thing just turned on where I was like I'm going to read everything there is about

And that's when I discovered Kabala, and for me, it was more of a not a religion. It was a, um, a strategy. So I was like, I'm going to use this strategy, similar to how you would use Facebook ads. Well, that's not a religion. It's a strategy. But Facebook ads doesn't rewire your perspective and your paradigm around man's relationship to God.

And, um, there's this verse I want to read, and then I want to push us into even more dangerous territory.

Yeah.

Um, but this verse explains sort of like where I got off track. Uh, because my perspective of myself became like, I can control it. I can't. I'm the captain of my own ship, and I just need to really learn how the world works and how energy works and what's metaphysics. Oh, this is fun. Learned everything about metaphysics, and I was like, well, you can, you can use consciousness to change your experiences through life. And so I started getting really studied in this. But First Corinthians 1:22, you read, "For the Jews ask for signs, and the Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, which is a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Gentiles."

What I think eventually started roping me back out of this is there's two camps that you can go into. And one is the, the, "I want the signs and the wonders." So some people are using this because they want to, they see the proof and they see the elementals and all of this stuff. And then some people are not that. They're, "I, I am in the pursuit of the knowledge, wisdom, like the, like the Greek or the Gentile." But at the end of the day, the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ is actually the thing that will set you free. And it doesn't matter how much power you accrue unto yourself if, if, if you end up dying in the middle of one of these two camps. So the camps fight with each other.

And so you have, just you have everything has been bifurcated at the two sides that fight. And they, I was selling, selling this to a group of coaching clients on Monday. I was like, "Man, if Christians didn't have, if Christians didn't have, uh, homosexual stuff to yell at, what would we talk about? If we didn't have, um, sexual promiscuity that we could yell at?" We always want to talk about the sin that we've never struggled with.

Mhm.

But at the end of the day, the message of all of the early church, all of the apostles, all of them was like, "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus." They were losing their minds. are like, "Dude, this, this is the way that that we save, uh, and protect what God is wanting to do." And maybe you could speak to that really quickly for Christians who have dabbled into these things, not in a way to scare them, 'cause Jesus, I don't think you've ever been in a session where Jesus just showed up and he's scared. Have you ever experienced Jesus afraid?

No.

So why are for? No. I don't want to, I don't want Christians to be afraid of this. But at the same time, there's a healthy, like, maybe challenging of like, man, how do you know the line of like, you studied these things? Should everyone study these things? Is this something that you shouldn't study? Like, he hasn't studied it. Should he study it? Like, give us some wisdom on how to know where to navigate.

Yeah. Well, I think there's a few things that happen, right? So when we engage with certain types of texts, and for the sake of dealing with some stuff, I had to read occult texts. I mean, really dark stuff. Lesser Key of Solomon. I mean, um, I've, I, I've read, uh, the Emerald Tablet of Thoth, which is full of like, I mean, they actually have whole statements that you could say as like a spell and stuff. And, and, and I'm looking for information, uh, that may, I, I may need to connect some dots just to solve problems. But what I found is that even doing that, like, like, I'm not going to lie, when I was, when I was dealing with Kabala back in 2019, you know, I started having to read the text. I was, it was like, don't fully understand what they believe and why. And even what we've talked about here is just a fraction of all the things we could talk about regarding the belief system and all of its misalignments with Christianity and, and, and the truth of Jesus. But as I was doing all of that and reading all of these texts, I kind of tripped, uh, a trip wire, so to speak, in the spirit world, and a door opened. I mean, it just, you know, did. And like that night, I had a dream where I was flying through space. Wasn't a dream. I was, it, it was like I, by engaging those texts, I opened myself up to that world of the second heaven, and I was like flying through and landed in a realm, and it looked at the end of it like ancient Egypt type, uh, location. And it was somewhere. But I, as I was flying through space, like before getting there, it was like the absolute loneliness and isolation of this vast void. It was like, oh, you know, I felt all of those emotions. And it's like, then I landed, like, what the heck is? And, and before I could really explore that place, I woke up and I'm like, yeah, I ended up getting pulled into something I shouldn't have been pulled into. Time to pray and cancel and void out everything.

As people begin to get into this stuff, whether they have the dreams, the visions, the actual out-of-body experiences, or whatever, they can inadvertently open themselves up to worlds of the second heaven. And those worlds and what's in them will, if not addressed properly, begin to have subtle influences in their lives. And they may perceive some of these as benevolent. They may perceive some of these as malevolent. There may be deception wrapped around it. But engaging with the materials themselves is a type of initiation. And that's something people need to be aware of. Even if they are a Christian, they know Jesus is their God. They're like, "Look, I just want to understand this better." It's like, yeah, put on the armor of God first. Cover yourself in the blood of Jesus and be ready to like repent and close any door that inadvertently gets open because you stumble on a trip wire by engaging with these texts.

When I was reading through, and I don't know if you had the same experience when you started reading the Zohar or whatever, but when I was having to go through some of the stuff dealing with the Kabbalah and actually getting into all the texts and even the Kabbalistic authors and reading their revelations on the Kabbalah to understand their belief system, I, it was like taking a bath in, in, in poop. I mean, it was just, I felt slimed every day. And I would spend six hours at a time in research, active research, going after this stuff, trying to understand it so that I could unpack it and then line it up with the truth of God's word and be like, "This is where it's messed up. This is where it's twisted." It was, it was defiling. And it was like I had to like literally speak over myself, living water, soap of Hisop, like, like washing by the water of the word. The scriptures that I would speak over myself to like, and feel the slime just coming off of me. And then I'd kind of reset to normal. But so when you ask the question, should people read it? I mean, my answer is, on assignment, you do whatever you're told. Uh, but there are consequences for certain assignments. And for leisure, uh,

No.

Uh, probably not.

Probably the best on-record answer would probably be no. Uh,

As you're looking at the camera.

There it is.

No. Yeah. I think so. But on assignment is like, it's interesting with, from me and my experience is like, I almost, it's almost like God knew that there was going to be this show and then the businesses and the people that were reaching it. So it's not, it, you had the discernment and the con, the conviction, the sensory acuity necessary to be like, this is nasty. Um, I didn't have that experience. I had a rewiring of my appetites. And so it was like, um, two people can eat Taco Bell and have very different experiences based on your appetites. Like you're putting it.

Yeah.

Your, uh, one has an appetite for clean food and the other's a glutton for punishment.

Oh, man.

Um, and so what, what happened with me is my appetites were, were restructured. And it actually felt really good. I actually felt like I was autonomous and like I could, I could achieve what I wanted to achieve. And it wasn't until, um, everything that I had built dissipated and I was like, well, what did I do wrong? And then I started developing the ability to hear from the Holy Spirit, that it was like, well, this, it was built on a foundation that was not, uh, it's not impervious to fire.

Wow.

And, and that started the journey, but I didn't get free from it until last year. I was going through, um, as much as I hate on, on like some, some forms of deliverance ministries or circuses, but then you have the real deliverance ministers, um, who can actually take you through these processes. And I was speaking with somebody and the Lord was talking to me like this, this, and this, and this. And one of the things that I heard the Holy Spirit very clearly tell me, and then the person was like, "Did you hear that?" was like, "Repent for the use of magic." And I was like, "I've never used magic in my life ever. I don't even know any spells." And I was like, "What does that mean?" And then the, you know, the memory came back in terms of like, well, you know, how to connect this with this and this, but it's not powered by the Holy Spirit. It's powered by this metaphysical framework. I was like, "Okay, well, I repent for that. It'll come out of agreement." And then I started to feel like the difference between, I had normalized a bad appetite. Like all of a sudden, I was healed into, this is what it feels like. And then I noticed what you're talking about. Where it's like, now when I'm, when I'm around it or I start to get close to it, I can sort of be like, "Hold on, this, this person, even in our comments, like, this person's a witch. I can smell it. It smells like trash. I can." But I didn't have that before. And that's where people, I think it gets really dangerous. You think it's good, but it's not. That's how deception always works. You were around during this season of life, and I didn't have any of the fruits of the spirit. Probably.

Not really.

Yeah. Same.

Sorry. I, I just, I'm just trying to be honest.

Nope. Even down to the level now where we have to watch out for, um,

You self-control.

Thank you.

You did.

I did have self-control.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I have one fruit of the spirit, Dan, Pastor Dan.

Yeah.

I'm okay.

I'm trying to think of more, but keep going.

We have to be careful now even with, um,

Like these people are so smart. They're really good at what they do. And, and I want to open this door and maybe see where you go with it. And then I want to tie us back to the roots of,

Yeah.

Kabbalah and what we're seeing now.

Yes. You mentioned political Zionism, and Christians don't know what the heck to think about anything if, if, uh, um, the state of Israel is involved. Like, we don't know what, we don't know what anything means. But we have to be careful even with like Joe Dispenza type. Um, I've even slow, at the beginning of the show, I talked a lot about David Hawkins. Do you remember this?

And the levels of energy kinesiology.

And now it's kind of like my grid is slightly different because you can use Dispenza's material and you can use David Hawkins' material and you can use all of this educational stuff, and you can really get yourself all twisted up to where you're worshiping, you're, you're worshiping, you think it's God, but it's not God. And so how do you know the line between like, what's just, this is science, this is just quantum physics versus like, yeah, that principle is true in quantum physics, it's quantum, it's, it's metaphysics, but it's actually taking you down a path of death and destruction. Is there a line there?

I, I, I'm sure there is a line.

And this question, I think, gets into almost like a, a gray area. And there's been a big, I think, outflow, especially in response to the distrust people have gained in the American medical system.

Mhm.

Where they're like, I've been let down by my doctors. I've made poor decisions for my health and my future based on advice that was given by people that are really making their money getting me to buy more pills. I am absolutely done with this system of, you know, and some people have gone back to the Bible, pharmacia, witchcraft. And so when they see the pharmacy, they see, you know, all this witchcraft. And I don't want anything to do with it, you know? And I think that integrative medicine is actually a very healthy approach to look at care, just for the record. But, you know, this has produced a big interest in naturopathy as an alternative. A naturopathy is using herbs and using natural healing modalities like foot baths and red light therapies and, um, diet changes and, and, and. But then naturopathy gets into a lot of other stuff, traditional Chinese medicine. But then you begin to run into belief systems that kind of undergird certain practices within the naturopathy realm that may be derived from occult sources. And so it becomes a bit of a muddy, muddy, muddy water. And it's like, well, what's what's legitimate and what's not? Uh, sometimes you have to look at the source to determine that. Like if you look at a person, they come up with an idea, and it's like, oh, that seems like a really good idea, and it seems to make sense to me. And it's like, well, maybe we ask, what is that person connected to? Oh, well, they're actually a member of the Order of the Golden Dawn. Well, maybe their source of the revelation of the idea that seems good to you is, is, is not sourced from the right kingdom. And so the way they frame it is going to put a person that follows it on a bad path. I think, you know, it, it's really hard and almost you have to go line by line on some of this stuff and say, "Well, what about this one specifically? What about this one specifically?" Because to take, oh, naturopathy is all witchcraft and this, well, that's the wrong answer. Um, to say, you know, this, the one of the things about traditional Chinese medicine, uh, is that they talk about meridian lines in the body, but those are scientifically proven to exist. You know, there are certain new ages that talk about auras. Well, we could say, well, that's new age witchcraft or whatever, but the body has an energy field around it. It's shaped like a torus.

You can measure it.

It's toroidal. You can measure it, and it's a composite of energy fields coming off of the different organs of the body. Every organ has an energy field that can be measured, and different organs have different sizes. The brain is about a foot out of the body. It extends its energy field. The heart, 8 to 12 feet, like that energy field of the heart.

And, and they become dominant at different times of the day. They follow a

Clock.

And, yeah. Exactly. And it's like, well, once you begin to be able to measure some of this stuff with actual scientific instruments, you can't just say, well, that's just witchcraft or, you know, that's just a demon. It's

Germs are witchcraft.

Okay.

That's where we go back. Uh, well, you know, same, same operating thinking, same critical thinking.

But, you know, and then, and then it's like, well, but you can rebuke sickness. So, if sickness is just rebukable, it must be a demon. It's like, no, no, no. Jesus died for us, spirit, soul, and body. He has a fix for every layer of our design, including the body. And in his name, his name has authority over sickness, even if it is a germ or a bacteria or a fungus. Like, so yes, you can. But like, yeah, that question, I think, is such a nuanced answer. And so my answer is, you would almost have to go line by line.

Or you have to develop the ability to talk with God.

Yes.

And then just ask. The fruit reveals the root. And I think that when people are looking at, well, you know, I tried this, and then this happened, and that wasn't so good. That's when you have to start asking, maybe what you were practicing was not a good thing to practice.

Yeah. And whenever you have bad happening in your life, bondage, uh, outcomes that are messing things up for you, uh, harassment and torment, try repenting of a practice. Like, like, like say, "Holy Spirit, push to the front of my mind the things I've been involving myself in that may be the opening the door to my torment." Just make that your question. And when he raises things like, oh, well, actually that yoga you've been doing, or this, this, try repenting of it, renouncing it, and then say, "Jesus, would you bind every evil spirit that's been at work in and around my life because of this thing that I was involved with and take them where you want them to go." If things change in your life for the better, you've just been delivered, and that practice is not something you should be doing.

That's a brilliant answer. That's a brilliant answer. Let me expand that just so that it's also fits into the mature Christian's worldview as well. Um, that's a, the deliverance side of that. I've actually never heard of anybody codify it that way.

So, have you?

I've never heard that codified so cleanly.

Well, thank you.

So, it's very good. Um, then there's also an element, you might want to speak to this, you don't have to, of just how God uses suffering to mature a Christian. 'Cause then there are times when it's like, there is no open door. There's just like, Joseph has got to be sent to Egypt because he can't get close to Pharaoh, and so he's spending time in prison.

Yeah.

Or there's this, like, my life is not what it, what God told me that it was going to look like, and things are hurting, and I'm losing people. And there's no, if you track down to the root, the root would be training and promotion and becoming like Jesus. And this is where we have to sometimes be careful because Christians will sometimes get into, if they just stick on one operating system, they'll just start rebuking all of, they'll try to close all of the doors. And it's like, well, you're, you're in a season where you're being promoted, and that feels like suffering. So, you have to allow God to allow, like, you've got to go closer to God, in a place where you're brokenhearted, in a place where you are losing, in a place where, um, you haven't done anything wrong, but life is still trying to kill you. And then you're like, Jesus, congratulations. Look, uh, I went through pain to get here. And one of the things I like to point out, um, after I finished Bible school, like it was bad. Like I tasted defeat for years. Um, it was like I was in turbo mode. I mean, just around the clock, all this stuff is going on. As soon as I finished Bible school, and this goes back to to 2009, it was like all the engines went off, and God was like, "You're going into the cave." And we're going to do some foundation work. He didn't tell me how long it was going to be. It was three years.

Mhm.

So, in my mid-20s, I had no career. I had no job. Everything I set my hand to failed. Like, I, I, I was under God's thumb like that. It was like a bug just being squashed. And I, I, I would try to like, I would cooperate for a season, like a few months. And all around me, right? I have people looking at me like, we thought you were smart, Dan. We thought you had potential, Dan. You, but it turns out you became a loser. And, you know, that's kind of hard to swallow when you have certain opinions of self-pride. Um, and I had to get my pride like ground to powder for an extended period of time. Like, it wasn't a few months or a half a year or a year or two years. It was just, I mean, just nothing. And I remember there was one day where I was like, in the name of Jesus. I mean, I was just praying. I was like, the doors have to open. And I was like yelling and sweating and prayer. And, you know, this is, I was tapping into some African roots.

Yeah. Some real prayer. You could ask some of your guests about that. Like, real. And, uh, I'm going in at it. And God was like, "Shh." And I was like, "And?" He was like, "I am your door." Now sit down. And so it's like, oh, okay. So you are the door that's closed. You have me here. My pride is being ground to powder. I've been uncomfortable for years, and I'm still not. Exactly. This is called the refiner's fire. And in that time, you know, I, I had to literally process the, the, the, the, the shame that I was onboarding because of the way people looked at me, you know, opinions of men. Like, I had to get over it. I had to get over pride. I had to get over like, oh, I, you know, I thought I was this, or I thought I had this potential. I, you know, I just had to, I had to get over it. It's, and, and he left me there for a long time so that it wasn't just like, okay, I'm over it today. It's like, because sometimes if you don't spend a long enough time getting refined, it's like you can bounce back. Like, you, you, you can, you, you can regain the shape you had if you're not ironed out long enough. You know, it's like, you pass, you have a shirt, you pass the iron over it once, the, the wrinkles come back. You got to keep the iron on the shirt until the wrinkles let it go. And that was, I was getting ironed out. And we get ironed out in the fire. And, um, it was like three years. And, and during that three years, I mean, there was a few times where I was able to like squeak something in there, you know? So, uh, I, I, I, I managed to get a job selling cars for two months. I sold one car for a significant payout and then desert. Like, I got zero the second month I worked there. I had zero sales. And I had a conversation with my manager. He's like, "You're awful." And I'm like, "Yep, just one more failure. Check the box." That was it. That was it for my car selling career. Used car salesman Dan, gone. You know, that's a part now. Uh, I, I tried to drive a cab. I mean, this was true shame. I signed up, and the way the cab company, this podunk cab company worked, like, you got a car that was not taken care of. All the odometers were wrong because all the engines were always changed out. Like, they were literally running the bottom of the barrel operation. Um, and, and, and you owed them a certain amount every day. It was slave labor. So, you had to work all day until you made that bottom line. And then any money you made over that, you got to keep. Six days a week. So, you really would have to work 12 to 14 hours just to make money. You, you'd worked six to seven hours just to make your bottom line that you owed them.

Yeah. You're not talking about driving Uber.

No, this was, brother, Uber, which is a respectable profession. But

I was disrespected in this profession. I mean, and, and, and, and the car I was driving. I mean, this is when I knew I was like, you know, 'cause this is what happens when you are like striving against God. This is an object lesson. God's like, you could try this. Not only will you be miserable, watch what happened. I was driving on a bridge, and the steering column went out on a bridge. I cannot steer the car at all.

What did you do?

I braked my car gently until I pulled it right along the side of the bridge in the side lane and, and, and didn't even scratch the car. Called, and they got it towed, and I said, "I want out of this contract." They said, "No, we'll sue you." So, I had to finish out paying them. And watch this. After they gave me a new car, I was still stuck in this cab thing. This is, this is a Jonah experience. This is what it looks like to try to go to Tarshish when you're supposed to go to Nineveh. And, and I, I'm, I'm sitting in a line outside of a hotel waiting for a fare because this is suburban cab company gives you like three fares a day, by the way. So, like, you have to literally just drive around and find your fares, minus like three. So, you literally all day in this thing. And, um, I'm sitting waiting for this thing, and, and, and they have this whole system in Chicago where you have to have certain stickers to wait in certain areas. And the cab company didn't tell me I needed to buy the sticker to wait in this area. So, someone that had the sticker and was mad that a cab driver without a sticker would sit there, called the cops. And so, I'm sitting there, cop pulls up right alongside of me, parks their car, now I'm stuck. I'm like, what's happening? They're like, "You don't have a sticker." I'm like, "What do I need a sticker for?" They're like, "You need a sticker to pick up a fare here in a cab." So, I got a ticket and had to go to court. Can I tell you what that's what that cost me? At court, wiped out every dime of what I made in the two weeks I was actually at that cab company. All of it zeroed out in court. Thank God I didn't get like permanent, uh, uh, you know, strike against my, like, like a misdemeanor. But,

I got off with the misdemeanor. Didn't get the mis, this was a misdemeanorable offense sitting there waiting for a fare. But this is the lesson. I was striving against God in my season of refining, and God was like, "We'll handle that." You get nothing. Was it worth it? I learned.

It's not worth it. And I finished out the season. Now we're seeing people set free all over the world. And God's getting the glory. And I have the humility and the maturity at this point to handle the weight of what's been entrusted. But I had to go through that process.

Let's, um, can we turn this into a two-part? Can you

Come back for part two

On this specific subject?

I mean, you have, I can't stay out of Tennessee, brother.

I'm working on buying a house out here. Your property taxes,

They still haven't gone up.

I know. Well, we're waiting for you to move here.

But I think this subject that you just touched on is where we should slowly land the plane instead of going where I want to go, which is tracking everything back. So, we need to do a part two.

Okay.

On this. Um, but I have 15 minutes, and I want to, I feel like we need to spend some time on this,

Okay.

Real fast because if you would have not made it through that season, you can, you can see the amount of destruction that could have occurred in God's planning and timeline. Um, you mentioned Jonah, which is interesting. Everyone should read the book of Jonah. But I think I've never codified this before. I've never taught on this before, but I want to see what you think and how you can fill in the gaps of this from a deliverance standpoint. There seems to be times of a person's life where their protection from heaven is seasonal.

And there are moments when it is conditional.

And you look at the story of Job, and what's happening with Job is Satan is complaining to God. So for those of you who haven't read it, Satan goes to heaven and he's like, "Here's what I'm doing." And God's sort of like bragging on someone, and Satan starts complaining, and he's like, "Well, of course, of course he's going to be like your perfect person because you have a hedge around him. So if you remove the hedge." And God plays ball with them on this, but it's conditional, and it's specific. It's only for a season of time, and then you can't take his life. You can't, you can't kill him. And so you're telling the story, and you're like, "My steering column went out. I made just enough money, but then I lost the money." And it's like, "We didn't even scratch the car, but you should have scratched the car." And so it's, I see this like very contingent, conditional, seasonal removal of protection. And it's almost like a grid expansion where the things that you've dealt with since this season are probably way worse than what you went through in that season, but you

You would have quit if you wouldn't have gone through that season.

Wow.

And I think everyone has this, and everybody goes through it. And they, they make a bad mistake when they go through this. They believe that they had done something. And so that's where the shame starts to creep in. And the reason is because their friends believe that they have done something. And Job's friends were like, "What have you done?"

Job's like, "I didn't do anything."

Mhm.

"This wasn't my decision. Like, I didn't ruin my life. I didn't do anything." So, I don't think I've ever interviewed somebody who hasn't gone through at least one of these, but most of the time a series of these where it's like, I did nothing wrong. I didn't ruin my life, but the people that I'm surrounded with, and the way that I view my optics are like, what have I done that has missed God? I've totally missed him, and I've maybe messed it up. Um, how, how did God take you from being in that place where he's like, "Sit down. Shut up. I'm the door." What was it like after that? How did you make it through the other side?

I, I, I just kept waking up to another day. And then eventually, and, and by the way, in this time period, right? I had written two books, completely unsuccessful, you know, lost money on both.

You were doing stuff. It just wasn't working.

I was doing stuff. I, I, I probably, uh, had a self-directed, PhD level research project over those three years. I mean, I, I would read a book a day at times. Um, I would spend six to eight hours just either praying, learning, researching. Like, there was, there's so much foundation. I, I would take, uh, certain, uh, mysteries I couldn't understand, um, and unpack them for like weeks at a time, look at every position paper on a subject and break it down. Like, there, there's a, there's a path that gets me here today to be able to tackle things at the level I tackle them that I wouldn't have had the time to actually lay foundation for now because

You need exorbitant amounts of time to wrestle through certain things. And so that was happening in that season. That was the purpose for that season. It was like a foundation-laying season. Um, anyway, the, the question you were asking though, is like,

What happened afterwards? What happened?

How did it end?

Yeah. So, it just kept waking up and doing that, getting off track a few times, getting spanked, back on track, you know, and then it was a day where God was like, "Time to start a podcast." And it was interesting because about a year before that, I had wanted to start a podcast, and it was like, "No." And I'm like, but I really want to. I'm ready. No, it died. It died. I didn't want to start the podcast. I was like, done. I'm like, I'm just done with life. I got to sit here. I'm cool. I'm actually comfortable just reading and researching for no reason and looking like a loser for the rest of my life. Whatever you need me to do, I'll do that. Like, cool. And God was like, "Now you're ready." Start a podcast. I'm like, "I don't want to start a podcast."

It's always how it happens, man.

And, and then he's like, "Yep." And, and he opened doors, and I started a, uh, moderately unsuccessful podcast, but, you know, it crept up towards reasonably worth my time. And that was the start, you know, Discovering Truth with Dan Deval, it launched in 2012. But that's really what led me into like interviewing survivors, which led into working with survivors, which opened the door to the whole ministry. And over time, it grew into what Bride Ministries is today, which is quite, quite, it's a growing, influential platform. I mean, um, and, and we're hitting the devil where it hurts. But, you know, I think one of the other things that I want to add to this whole conversation is God has to teach us our competence in doing hard things. Like, you don't know what you're capable of until you've been challenged. And some people, um, you know, kind of maybe breaking with the book of Job scenario, but looking at David for a second, right? You, you could find yourself in a situation where you're like face to face with a lion, and it's like, wow, this thing wants to tear my throat out. And you're looking at that challenge, and you're like, I feel entirely illegitimate. I feel like this is probably above my pay. And it's like, God let David face the lion so that the warrior that was in David had a demand put on it. It's like, you are going to see what's in you. And the only way for you to see what's in you is to be confronted with a hard thing with no alternatives. So it's either you or the lion. What's going to happen? God will pull a person into that scenario knowing what's in them. And when that person prevails, God's like, you can do hard things. And a person's like, I can do hard things. But it becomes, it exits God's view of their identity and enters their view of their identity. And part of the refiner's fire is also going through hard things, being faced with the, the thing that you fear, and God forcing you into that position. Whether it's, I have a fear of undergoing a, a, a battle with a, a disease, or I have a fear of undergoing a season of financial lack, or I have a fear of undergoing a season where I have an aggressive personality that I actually have to work with every day. And it's like, God is cheering us on and saying, "Look, I've opened this door. It's not a door of persecution. It's actually a door of opportunity if you could only see it like I see it." And when we lean into him and we say, you know what, I'm not going to back down. That's when God is able to demonstrate what he's actually put inside of us. And it's always for the greater glory. So David faced the lion. It's like, well, thank God I'm still alive. Guess what he had to face next? A bear. What the heck? Come on. Like, I just survived a lion, and now it's a bear. Are you kidding me? So, he took out the bear. You can do hard things, David. Look at what's inside of you. He changed his mind process data different, his mind process opposition different. Now the warrior that God created him to be is the warrior that he sees himself as. There's an alignment on identity. Christians have identity in Christ that we are often out of alignment with because of our brokenness and trauma. But God will take us through a finer fire to align us with the identity he put in us. And when we align on that, we think different. We process different. We engage different. We go after mission different. We believe that the heavenly scroll, all the things, the extraordinary things God put us here to do is possible and achievable. And God's like, I have you exactly where I want you. Now, here's the real thing that you've been preparing all this time for. Goliath is challenging my people. And when you show up at that point, because the lion, because the bear, David said, "Who is this Philistine, this uncircumcised Philistine that challenges the armies of the Most High God? Let me add him. I could take him." And people are like, "What do you mean you could take him? You're a wimp, bro." And he's like, "You see something completely different than I see because God's already aligned me on my heavenly identity. Get out of my way. I'll take it." And what did David do? Took on the giant, took him out. And that, I think, is a path that we have to learn to respect. We have to actually learn to respect the hard things that God allows for us to be confronted by because we have to understand he is a good father. And a good father allows their sons to face hard things, overcome them, and gain an identity that will allow them to do the extraordinary throughout their lives. Fathers raise extraordinary people. And that's what our heavenly father does with us.

Brilliant. And because the, the thing I love about that, too, is God knows everybody has their own areas of strength and weakness. The enemy will try to exploit the strength and exploit the weakness. And so David goes through a different path than, than Job does, and Job goes through a different path than Moses does. But there are maps all throughout these things. And when you read, when you read these stories, you have to see, see how God is preparing them for the future. I would say one thing to people who are in a difficult season. I want you to maybe close us out in prayer. Um, is whether you're someone who has built great things and you're going through, um, traumatic loss like Job did. Whether you're somebody who has spent your whole life in obscurity like David did and you don't believe that you can, um, be used by God. Whether you're someone who knows that you were put on the earth with giftings and callings, but now you've been betrayed like Joseph was. Whoever it is, um, don't accept the judgment or the voices of the people around you and conflate them with God's opinion.

I think that's one of the biggest lessons we can learn from all of these people is they were surrounded by people who were saying things that were very different than what God was saying.

Yes. And as, as soon as those voices start to replicate themselves in you, then it's not, it's no longer a training program. It becomes an existential crisis. You're no longer training in the gym. You're now being crushed under a bench. And, um, yeah, this is the toughest part is other people have opinions, but they, they don't match God's opinions. You have to learn how to ignore them.

Wow.

You know, anything to add to this?

Honestly, no. It's really, it just makes me, uh, think like, God, if I need to go through that season, then I need to go through that season because it's like, whatever it looks like, it would be worth it.

Yeah.

Do you think that there's multitudes of that season, or is it normally once from the maps that you've seen? Is it normally once on the suffering, and obviously not suffering side, but the hiddenness? Is it, is it kind of like an ebb and flow, or is it usually like a one and done, usually if the lesson's learned?

My opinion is that it, it coordinates into how your, how big your calling is, and then the generational baggage that's been seeded in your, your bloodline. I mean, you see David goes through like, first, he can't do hard things. It's like, you can do hard things. And then it's like, then you have him experiencing betrayal at a whole new level. And then after all of this, he goes through, beats the lion, beats the bear, beats Goliath, then he's loved by Saul. Saul tries to kill him, then he's hiding in caves, then his self, his men mutiny. So David's just like, every insecurity you could have is being exposed and then siphoned out like poison. But if, if it's buried inside of you, you can't siphon it out. And so how do you siphon the poison to the top? Well, it's got to come to the top. So we're like, "Oh, something's wrong with me. I feel so so jealous." It's like, well, that's that poison's got to come up and to be siphoned out. God will use circumstances sometimes to bring those things to the top and reveal themselves. So I think it depends. The bigger, the bigger, the more the enemy is actually trying to to either pervert your gifts or kill you entirely, um, typically I think maps to like what he sees inside of your potential destiny. I think that the enemy knows more about your destiny than you do most cases. Would that be accurate from your point of view?

I think so. I think so. And there's a, there's a lot of reasons for that. Um, and, and, and something we've talked about in other visits, like, um, even like the preconception identity of the human spirit. Like he knows,

Yeah. Yeah.

Who we are in the heavens even before we arrive,

And are conceived and born as

Humans. And so like, we don't realize like he knows what we don't.

Yes.

And he's making judgment calls about our lives and though his opposition strategies on the basis of information that is sometimes veiled to us for extended periods of time. So yes, absolutely.

Which means he can go after your grandparents. If you can get your, if you get your grandfather into mysticism, then there's like now doors that trans, the covenant made then outlives the grandfather. And now you're tangling with the covenant that was made two generations prior. That's all messing you up. And it's 'cause he can, he's reading, he's reading the, the tea leaves, so to speak, you know?

Can you pray, lock us down, bro? And

Let's do this.

Pray us out.

Let's do this. You know, Father God, we thank you so much for the conversation and the clarity that this conversation will bring to many people. I thank you that out of this conversation, there are a few things that come through clearly from your Holy Spirit to listeners. First, I pray for a revelation of purpose, divine purpose, in so much as whatever we haven't perceived of ourselves that has allowed for counterfeits to be presented and bought into. I thank you, Holy Spirit, that to the front of people's minds, a revelation of what Jesus designed each of us to be here for is established. Let people see themselves the way you see them. Let them see their gifts in the context for which they were given them. I thank you that there is a revelation of context, context of suffering, context of difficulty, that brings a settling and a peace to those that have engaged in this conversation. Jesus, I thank you that you are the lover of our souls, and that as a result of this conversation, many will have a new perspective on why you matter. Uh, what you are doing in their lives. I thank you that you are the God of mercy and grace. You are the captain of heaven's armies, the supreme potentate. And I thank you that your work in many lives is producing a breakthrough and even a transition into alignment with your calling and purpose, effective now. So we speak these things in Jesus' name. Amen.

Amen. I love you, bro. Thank you. I love you too, Jake.

Love you.

Thank you. I love you, audience. Thank you. See you guys next week.