Transcription
We are running out of time. It's, it's crazy. We have till August 7th, but, you know, government does not move fast. And the Senate and Congress are back in office next week. I don't know if they can get a lot done next week. They can fast-track it as much as possible.
We did get some great news where a Democrat, top Democrat Senator Ron Wyden, said he supported the D5 provision within the Clarity Act. But Elizabeth Warren came out the same day trying to spread flood.
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Hey folks, welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast Crypto Water Cooler Series. I'm Tony Edward. And I'm Amanda Wickcroft. We're going to dive into the latest crypto news that you need to know about. Amanda, great to see you. Happy Friday.
Happy Friday. Great to see you too, Tony.
Amanda, lots happening in the crypto market. Never a dull day or week or month. There's always news, which is great. Lots to talk about. I would love to start with Michael Saylor has officially gone into selling mode. They sold over 3,000 Bitcoin towards the end of June into early July. And look, I don't have necessarily a problem with this. I think you and I have discussed quite a lot that it's about the lying and the hypocrisy, right? For years saying, you don't sell your Bitcoin, never sell. Well, we're never going to sell now. We have to sell.
Yep. Now, Tony, don't offend his cult following. Michael didn't sell it. MicroStrategy sold it. We're going through all types of mental gymnastics there to make this look good.
They sure are. I've always raised an eyebrow as people have listened to me over the weeks at the cult of personality around Michael Saylor. Bitcoin was supposed to remove the need to place enormous trust in just one financial intermediary. And yet, you have all these investors who are now being asked to trust one man's ability to keep an increasingly elaborate capital structure functioning. And so I think the hypocrisy of that alone. And I just saw Brad Garlinghouse the other week post, it's one thing to be this financial engineering company. It's another to have actual use case. And one sustains, one doesn't. And I think Saylor has been brilliant. There are some points you can't argue. He's brilliant in terms of the financial engineering of Bitcoin, in terms of credit and capital, things of that nature and innovating. But then it comes to, okay, but why can't we leverage Bitcoin for more use case? And I think that's where he's losing.
Yeah, well said. When he started this, Amanda, it was a great idea. You take some of your cash reserves, you buy some Bitcoin. Look, SpaceX just went public with Bitcoin on a balance sheet. Tesla has Bitcoin on a balance sheet. There's other companies that have some Bitcoin exposure. With Saylor, lost a narrative. He went full on risk, right? I'm going to raise obscene amounts of debt, and I'm going to buy Bitcoin. Well, wait a minute, man. You are setting up a house of cards here, especially when you have to pay yield, and then you have to now you're forced to sell to pay that yield. So there's some sort of Ponzi elements here. I'm not saying it's a Ponzi scheme, but the attributes are starting to appear.
Yeah, I agree. And you're buying Bitcoin exposure wrapped inside debt, like to your point, preferred dividends, and you're refinancing risk. And Michael Saylor's execution risk, really, it's him that is. And I know everybody gets upset, again, his cult following, it saying, well, Michael Saylor is the reason that the price of Bitcoin. No, that's not possible. It's because capital is flowing into AI. And that is true. A majority of that is true. However, I will say since all of this, the house of cards that I think is very well known now is falling. It is affecting the price of Bitcoin. And that is a very, very bad look for Bitcoin as a whole.
Yeah. The one good thing I would say though, is even though there was an initial sell-off when this news broke, Bitcoin did bounce back. Now, it's TBD. We still have ways to go for us to figure out which direction it's going to choose to pump or, you know, if it's going to go up or if it's going to crash down. But the good thing is that sellers stepped in, excuse me, buyers stepped in and they bought the dip. And I think because we're nearing some sort of bottom for the crypto market, that's what, you know, caused a lot of people to start buying the dip. Institutions. There was ETF inflows that started to increase. So the good thing is that maybe, maybe we're at the start of the market putting Saylor behind us, putting MicroStrategy behind us. Okay. He's going to sell. Let's whatever, let's move forward and get things done. But to your point, that risk is still there because he holds so much of the Bitcoin supply.
Yeah. And I think that's what it is. It's that Bitcoin itself does not produce cash flow. I think that's what everybody is realizing. So MicroStrategy has to either raise more capital, they have to use cash reserves, or they have to sell assets to even meet these obligations. And so all these, not just Saylor, all your Bitcoin maxis who, you know, all the conferences that people have attended, all the Twitter rabbit holes people have gone down following this philosophy and these, "Come on Bitcoin or nothing" people, you know, Bitcoin, even the separation of Bitcoin and crypto and why. And it's very difficult to now hop on that bandwagon when it's not producing cash flow unless you meet these things.
Right. And to your point, it's clear hypocrisy because what Saylor is doing with all this debt, he's building a model that Bitcoin was built to go against, right? The emphasis is, or I should say, you know, to be a hedge against it. It came out of 2008, right? Bitcoin launched in 2009. But obviously, as a result of the 2008 crash, yet now we're cheerleading for one guy to hold as much Bitcoin, raise as much debt as possible. You're going back to the same old system.
Right. And that's the he's talking about credit this morning, his latest interview, and credit and Bitcoin. And so and what do you get into when you're going into credit fiat? The very thing that you have, you have championed against. You are you're going right into that. So there's, yeah, there's certainly been a lot of hypocrisy.
Yeah, and I hope the industry can put Saylor to the side, not focus on him, and Bitcoin can reach new levels of adoption, such as governments and central banks holding on their balance sheet. You know, we've heard about the US trying to get a Bitcoin reserve established. That's still something that's in the works. But what's interesting about it this week, Trump accounts launch, which I think is a great thing for future generations. But Trump hinted at potentially Bitcoin and crypto being added. Obviously, we have no concrete legislation. But he was asked a question. He's like, yeah, you know, it could happen over time. And I don't think it's far-fetched to say that that could happen as crypto, you know, gets legislation, it grows as an asset class, it could certainly be added to Trump accounts.
I agree. And I think it would probably be in the design of an ETF. I think it would be a highly regulated crypto. I don't think it would be a custodian wallet, for example, especially for children, even as their accounts are accruing more and more wealth. I don't see that happening. I also don't like the politicization of the account. What happens when a new administration comes in? Why does it have to be a Trump account? I wish the branding had been a little more. Because I agree. I'm pro-capitalism. Let's do this. There's also an education portion to this, which I wish we had more instilled in previous generations, but great that we're starting now, where people can accrue wealth and learn how to invest and put their money away. The Trump accounts gets me. It's like, why does it have to be wrapped up in the Trump administration?
I often say Trump is a double-edged sword. He'll come in with something awesome and great, but then he'll mess it up with his own like ego or his narrative and, you know, he must stamp his name on it. Yes, I think he said that wasn't my idea. They came up with that. That's what he said when he was first announcing this at some inaugural address. He was thanking Michael Dell for his huge investment. He said, it wasn't my idea to name it this. I'm like, sure it wasn't. I'm sure it's like, come on.
Yeah, I mean, it would have been awesome if he named it like, I don't know, U.S. Prosperity Accounts or something, versus puts his name on it. To your point, if a future Democrat, you know, administration comes in, are they going to try to change the name, right? I don't know what's going to happen there. But it's, it's, the idea is great, especially as you have issues with social security and, and all these things that are coming up. I think this is a way to combat that and have like a social safety net, so to speak, for future generations. But the individual obviously can contribute and it's their money. It's not socialized, so to speak, amongst the population.
I don't know if you remember, I may have brought this up before on a previous episode, but it was George W. Bush who proposed the idea of allowing us as taxpayers for a part of FICA to allow us to invest back in the stock market, to take a portion of that and be allowed to do that. And the government turned it down simply because they thought that the American people were not educated enough to invest on their own. And so I do appreciate Trump doing this because, you know, here we are pushing college on people, pushing education constantly. Well, why don't we know how to invest? You know, if this is such an important piece where you feel that we're too uneducated, educate us, help us. This is very important.
Exactly. And in addition, I think the other factor of why they are pushing this now, in this sense of urgency and why this came out so quickly, in addition to social security, but AI is coming, robotics is coming, there's a lot of entry-level jobs are going to be gone, a lot of people are going to be out of work. Look, there's already some level of that where kids graduate, they paid, I don't know, thousands of dollars in debt, or tens of thousands of dollars in debt from college, but they can't get a job, and they have to go work in a warehouse or a restaurant. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not what their goal is, their ambition is, and they're finding it hard to find jobs. So that's only going to get worse. So I think these type of things help for the long run.
I completely agree. And yeah, and it's not even just coming out of college. That's a huge part of it too. But then you have senior talent who's worked their way up and feels, and rightly so, feels that they are entitled to a certain pay and package. And now you have companies who are finding out, oh, I can hire cheap labor. And that comes at a cost to itself, but there's that aspect of it as well. And it's very disheartening. So yeah, to learn to manage your own money within a system that sometimes we're completely rigged by, I think is important.
Absolutely. And this is why we do this podcast to educate people about crypto and all the things that are happening in the market, because you have to have exposure to assets because central banks, including the Fed here in the United States, will continue to print money. It's the fiat system and you lose your purchasing power over time. So you have to diversify the assets. And obviously, I'm a big believer in crypto. It has outperformed many asset classes over the past 10 to 15 years. So hopefully that trend continues, but I think it's also important to diversify.
Yeah, totally agree. Well, the banks would agree with you, especially now, Tony. They're buying it up, so it's not going anywhere. And what could really help crypto is, of course, the Clarity Act passing. Amanda, we are running out of time. It's crazy. We have till August 7th, but, you know, government does not move fast. And the Senate and Congress are back in office next week. I don't know if they can get a lot done next week. They can fast-track it as much as possible. We did get some great news where a Democrat, top Democrat Senator, Ron Wyden, said he supported the D5 provision within the Clarity Act. But Elizabeth Warren came out the same day trying to spread floods, saying the bill allows for, you know, all types of sanctions and evasions and money laundering and all kinds of madness. This woman, no solutions, just always, always just headlines. You know, it's like, okay, well, what are you going to do about it? Because there are some points she makes. Well, yeah, that's an issue. But, you know, always like the decentralized argument that she's now making can be a marketing label rather than like an operational reality.
100 percent. As a publicist, I've seen it done a thousand times. But again, what are you going to do about it? You're on the Senate floor. Help to make this better. And you can do that through legislation. But instead, she's just, you know, just yelling it. I don't even know yelling at somebody. But I agree. The Clarity Act. I really hope this gets passed. I just, it seems there's more confidence. But it's, it's the government, you know, we're dealing. I stick to, I know crypto. I know. But then we're dealing with an entity that I know runs very slow and at the 11th hour can turn back and say, actually, no, we can't do this. So I, it's just, we have no idea. Senator Loomis believes a path, you know, to passage exists. But she's also warning that Congress is running out of legislative time. So I don't know what to think at this point.
Yeah, time is certainly against us. And just so folks know what has to happen next, I think the Agriculture Committee has to agree to the version that was passed on the Senate Banking Committee. Then it has to go to the Senate floor for a vote. Then after it leaves the Senate, it has to go to the House to be reviewed and voted on because the Senate updated the House's version that used to be called the Fit 21. And then once it passes the House, then it has to go to Trump for signatures. So I don't know, man, it's so tight. It's so tight. But maybe, I don't know, they got the Genius Act done in a similar fashion, if I'm not mistaken, it was right before the August recess. So maybe they can do it. But also you got the ethics issue, Amanda, that the Trump disclosure of his crypto earnings and investments, I think really, really hurts us. I don't think anybody saw that coming. And I think Democrats are gonna use that against-
That's- Yeah, that's the part that scares me. Ethics, ethics, moral. This, this is a sector that can be so great. That anybody can throw out something that that becomes a wrench and that's the end of that. So that that entire, I think that's your, I think you're 100 spot on. The Democrats are going to use that to to not let this go through.
The one good thing that maybe, maybe, fingers crossed, it may be a low probability here, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand released a law or some sort of thing that could be added into the bill, a provision that says no elected official can have a meme coin. Hopefully, that could satisfy the Democrats to say, okay, we're going to include meme coins in here. There's a larger ethics issue. We know all of Congress, they trade stocks, gold, oil, crypto and so forth, right? So it's not just a crypto issue. But if the meme coin thing can be put to bed in this bill, that would be great. I don't know what that means for the president or first lady's meme coin. But if the Republicans say, okay, you know what, yeah, we'll give you meme coins, we'll figure out the rest later, maybe, maybe that could work.
Yeah, see, this is confused. And I know we're going to get to Robinhood, Robinhood chain. But see, that's where it confuses me. They are, they're now banging the drums on meme coins. And I'm like, wait a second, are we going back into this casino that we were trying to get away from as a crypto industry? And not only that, Robinhood is behind the Trump accounts. They're part, they're one of the organizations behind this. So I'm very confused about that.
Yeah, and look, I hate meme coins. Not for me, I don't hold any. And that's not to offend anybody that does. But I also believe in the free market, right? That if you want to go to Vegas and gamble your money and lose it, or you win, maybe, right? That's, you're right. So I'm not trying to stop you. But what we are saying is the President, members of Congress, mayors, governors, no meme coins, please, don't do it. But what does the CEO of Robinhood know where he's going to the press openly talking about this being a part of his new venture with Robinhood chain and he's in the trenches with Trump and his administration understanding that clarity is coming with this ethics issue. What does he know that I don't know?
Yeah, hopefully, Amanda, it is not the rise of meme coins again. I'm going to start drinking, like what happens in the crypto market moving forward. We'll do a water cooler happy hour. Yeah, because I can't, it's too crazy, man, like, this should not be, you know, the banner for crypto, come invest in this meme coin, get rugged, banana coin, cat coin, I don't know, whatever else, crazy coin comes out.
I agree. But, you know, like I said, hopefully that provision satisfies the Democrats and they ban public officials from being able to issue meme coins and we can get this bill done. We really, really need it because if it doesn't get done, I don't know what we have to wait maybe until 2027, 2028.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's, um, we we've heard from so many people that we've had on now. Like if it doesn't get done now after August recess, that's, that's it. Not, we're not looking at anything until next year. Now, the good thing is that the federal agencies like the OCC, SEC, CFTC, and others are moving forward in providing guidance and giving licenses. Circle has received final OCC approval to establish First National Digital Currency Bank, a national trust bank operating as Circle National Trust. So this is huge for Circle as I think the largest stablecoin issuer in the US with the largest, well, Tether, I think might compete, but I would say the largest regulated USD stablecoin, really huge news for them.
Yeah, no, I'm very happy for that. I think the only way that you can execute on all the tools that they have is by doing this. So I think this was just the natural step for them. And they're one of the major players in this. It's like I said, these infrastructure companies, these exchanges that are getting the ability to do these things and get trust charters in place, these will be the most regulated and trusted entities that really move forward into making that bridge between finance and crypto happen.
Yeah, and recently, their stock had crashed because of that consortium stablecoin called OpenUSD, which was launched, and people were panicking, oh, no, they're gonna be in trouble because OpenUSD has BlackRock, Visa, Stripe, and these other folks who are part of the network. But Circle has a huge head start. And the stablecoins is already part of many different blockchains and adopted by some of those names like Visa and MasterCard. So I don't think they have anything to worry about. But what this new is their stock price pumped back up. So it's good for them overall. I think they're one of the major players and when you have backing, you know, in your partnerships with some of the biggest banks, you're not going anywhere, you know, it's, there may be tough times, but they're not tough, tough like these other companies.
Oh, yeah. And look, they're making a killing on the stablecoin yield and fees and, you know, obviously, Coinbase as well with their huge partnership. But, you know, this is a company I'm bullish on. And again, they're licensed. And that's an advantage they have here in the United States versus, let's say, Tether, which is huge globally, but not in the United States. And I think, yeah, I think Circle is the leader here in the U.S. as far as stablecoins. I think behind them is maybe PayPal's PYUSD. I know Ripple has RLUSD. So competition is heating up, but Circle has a head start for sure.
Yeah, I just read about PayPal. That was that was very interesting. That's huge. Yeah, everybody and their uncle is launching a stablecoin. It seems like eventually there's going to have to be some consolidation, though.
Well, if you noted the stablecoin is what really made Bitcoin almost like the most hated asset right now because of all how quickly stablecoin came out of the woodwork. I mean, not really the woodwork, but really got this huge marketing campaign and the amount of use case. And now to the point where traditional finance is going, wait a second, okay, this is here to Bitcoin. Why didn't you ever do that in all the years you have been in existence and all the faces and all the conferences, stablecoins have completely washed them out.
Yeah, I remember there was a big movement to make Bitcoin operate like stablecoins where you can use it for payments with the Lightning Network, but it didn't work out. I think they're trying to put a square peg in a round hole, right? Just not what Bitcoin was made for. So I think that's being put to bed and Bitcoin is just digital gold, hard money, a hedge. And stablecoins are the way for commerce and Web3 and micro payments and all that.
Yeah, I think Bitcoin is just going to be another asset that sits on your balance sheet. And that's it. That's what it'll be. And all of this other stuff will just kind of, I don't know, go away.
Yeah, and to your point, like there's different use cases, right? If you want to hold Bitcoin as like you do gold, right? If you have exposure to gold or real estate, like assets that can grow over time. And like you said, it just sits there. Um, you can do that, but yeah, I mean, the everyday person, if they're, the Bitcoin is worth, I don't know, $500,000 one day, I don't want to spend it. I'm going to let it sit there. So when I'm ready to retire, then I can cash out. Exactly. So it doesn't make sense. But yeah, anyway, I think we're seeing where things are headed, where the puck is heading and how each crypto asset or blockchain is going to have its own swim lane.
Yeah, no, I agree. Now, there was some very interesting news around XRP. The folks at Ripple looks like they did a partnership with the University of Kansas. And this is the first ever crypto company sponsoring major college athletics. This is a fascinating one.
Yeah, I think this is really, this is an area that I'm very, very interested in. You know, companies like MoonPay too, that are getting it. They now sponsor, I think they are like completely partnered with the X Games now. It's all MoonPay and X Games. I think this is just smart. I'm waiting for a crypto company to walk into hockey, because I think hockey has become like a huge, you know, since the Olympics. And I think it's smart. You're purchasing culture, you're purchasing institutional credibility, you know, it's not just that the logo goes on the jersey and that's it. It's really showing that, you know, there's this piece where people are going to start waking up to it, like we were talking about before with Trump accounts of this financial education and, you know, token marketing. But for some reason, like the sports arena, I think is the smartest way to get this, to get mass adoption.
Yeah, it's definitely great exposure. I often see, as an NBA fan, I watch a lot of basketball and I see Coinbase ads plastered in the arena and stuff like that. I've seen some other folks as well. So I think it's a great way to get exposure because it's on TV. Obviously, you got the audience within the arena and a lot of different demographics that you can reach. And it just shows crypto's growing up, maturing, that it's doing things that you see normally for other companies.
Yeah, exactly. I think eventually this goes to college campuses where you have people talking about and educating on crypto simply because it's on a jersey. I think this will go much further. Yeah. I know in the past, the crypto Super Bowl ads didn't work out well for us, but I think moving forward, they might. As the industry matures, we get legislation. It won't be as volatile and as crazy, but maybe in another couple of years, they should go back to Super Bowl ads, but right now, maybe not. I know the Super Bowl was a little bit, even with Coinbase doing the Sphere in Vegas, to me, that's just primarily a large advertising deal. That's just a loud PR play. But I think the college athletics is very, very smart because we just talked about the job market and these kids coming out of school not really being able to enter into it. This now is a pathway for internships and employment pathways where maybe they didn't know about this industry before and now they can have interest.
Yeah, it's a great point, and that's why we need the Clarity Act passed, right? So there can be more investment, more building, and more jobs created for the folks who live here in the United States, right? And obviously, this is a global industry, but we're both in the United States. And I think if this industry is able to get regular, you're going to see a lot of innovations. You know, I think of, you'd think about Bill Gates and Microsoft and Steve Jobs and Wozniak in the garage building Apple, right? You could have that type of innovation and building from great entrepreneurs. That's the thing. And I know you and I are on the same page with what Senator also Brooks said, you know, on the floor of I am for this getting passed because of the younger generations. And I hope that between the Trump accounts and now this, you know, you're looking at major players in the crypto space, sponsoring college athletics, you know, big, just cultural spaces where they know your youth is paying attention. And that's that should be the hope is that we want them to pursue the American dream. We want to bring back innovation and entrepreneurship and, you know, create it, make it happen. And I think this industry amongst others has been a huge, huge champion of our youth to do to do something and not just rely on your government or any anything or rely on anything really, just just make it happen.
Yeah, and hopefully we get this done, but we are seeing incredible adoption. You mentioned Robinhood chain earlier. It's great to see that different companies are building their own layer twos or their own layer one. I think this is a great way for them to add value, not only for the customers, but also for the business, right? They can get fees, but they may be able to do a lot more within their own ecosystem. They're building an Arbitrum, obviously, which is a public chain. And I think if they're able to offer more benefits, you know, by creating this chain, like, I don't know if it's splitting revenue or adding more staking features or whatever it may be, you know, you're able to give more to the customers, that would be really good. Obviously, they're looking to do meme coins, which I'm not a huge fan of, but nevertheless, I want to see more than meme coins. I want to see some, you know, cool things that benefit the customers.
Yeah, Robinhood talks about a lot democratizing, modernizing finance, so it's nice to see them coming away from just simply being a brokerage app. But the speculative trading, I hope that that's just for driving engagement. I really hope that that's not something they're going to stick to and tie themselves into. But I think they're definitely positioned in a great way around just real world assets and tokenized finance. So I expect a lot of great things from them. By the way, we're going to get our chance to ask them about that because I just scheduled an interview with Johann Kerberat, who heads up crypto at Robinhood. So we'll get to talk to him next week and ask him some questions about all these things and what their strategy is.
That's right. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. Well, Amanda, there was a huge capitulation this week, and I think it's almost like the final domino to fall. Vanguard is going all in on crypto. Now, to set the table for years, they said, we will never embrace crypto, we'll never add it to our platform, going back to 2018. And just even 2024, when the previous CEO was saying the same thing, he's just beating the drum, nah, we don't care. We don't care what BlackRock, we don't care what Fidelity is doing. Now, come December 2025, they started opening up to crypto and ETFs. But then we're like, okay, well, what else are you going to do? Well, all of a sudden, they have a job offering, Amanda, and I don't know if you want to apply, but they are looking for a head of digital assets to head up stablecoins, tokenization, DeFi, crypto wallets, and much more. Complete capitulation. I wonder what they're preparing for.
I mean, I can guess, but their interest is likely and probably, I'm going to guess, lower cost market infrastructure. That's what I would say because that fits much more than just the speculative token trading. I know that they've been very much against this industry, but I think they're catching on, like I said, to the stablecoin portion of things, you know, the digital custody partnerships that are happening. And even tokenization, they understand that this is not going anywhere and they have to be part of it.
Oh, absolutely. And it's crazy that they took this long, and I don't know what the internal politics or situations were, but somebody, maybe the former CEO, was the issue for whatever reason, he was just anti-crypto. But the new CEO, if I'm not mistaken, was, or there was someone else who came over from BlackRock, who actually helped BlackRock to launch their crypto services, came over and all of a sudden you're seeing this change. So it's better late than never, but if they didn't do this, they were at risk of losing significant market share. I think they are the second largest asset manager behind BlackRock, if I'm not mistaken, second or third. And if they didn't do this, I mean, BlackRock and these other institutions would steal their lunch for sure.
That's what I wonder is, are they just preparing? Are they not maybe converting? Maybe they're just, because this is one hire. I'm not sure if that means they're completely, do they need someone to study the risks? Because you're right, they can't afford to lose existing business. So they have to defend that. Do they have to respond to their competitors because they're getting some pushback having not entered the space at all and they're starting to see loss? So it might simply be a very strategic hire to avoid any more controversy in that sector.
Yeah, for sure. But then you think about the direction everybody's moving in. When they say everybody, I'm talking about like a majority of the banks and Wall Street. I mean, you just look at the New York Stock Exchange and NASDAQ, they're all looking to put assets on chain. So I can't imagine that Vanguard is going to sit there and say, well, we're going to keep it the way it has always been for the past 70 years. This is how you get your stocks when the competition's putting the assets on chain and they're looking to push that asset globally and do more with it. So I think they have to figure out what their strategy is, how they're going to implement this, maybe this person's going to come in and build out a digital asset division, right? And then they start hiring more, but man, they are certainly late to the game, but I guess better late than never.
Yeah. Well, and they're not stupid. They're in the business of making money, so they don't want to lose clients and they realize that they now have to embrace, you know, blockchain technology in order to keep some clients.
Oh, for sure. Well, Amanda, hopefully the next time we are doing a crypto water cooler episode, we do these bi-weekly, the Clarity Act is moving in the Senate at the cusp of passing the Senate, if not, it has already passed the Senate because that would be awesome. Maybe we'll bring a bottle of champagne, you know, drink a live on show here.
That's right. And next week, you and I will be in DC at the Injective Summit hearing from a lot of congressmen, women, you know, who are actively a part of this. So we'll hopefully find out more and have more to discuss in that way.
Oh, yeah, I'm looking forward to that and hearing from the folks in D.C. But everybody, thank you so much for tuning in. We will catch you in the next episode.
Catch you next time. Thanks, Tony.