Sales Roleplay - Sales Training Offer With $1M/mo Trainer [LIVE]

We are back with another high ticket sales roleplay. We are going to jump into a sales roleplay for a salesperson. Somebody that is not making the money they want to be making in sales. Jeremy's going to be the closer for sales training and Don is going to play the prospect here. We're going to go through the discovery. Going to peel out all the things that you need to be doing in your discoveries and ironically the things that you may need to be doing as a salesperson to go to the next level to close more deals to make more money in sales so that you can buy the life that you want to buy. It all comes down to developing your high value skill set which as a salesperson is learning to sell people. The more you develop your skill set, the more money you'll get paid. The more money you get paid, the more life you can live. So, without any further ado, Jeremy, kick us off with your opening question.

>> Okay. Hey, Don. So, I'm curious. I've got your application and I've gone over all those details. I'm I'm curious in your opinion, what's the biggest challenge that you're having with closing deals right now?

>> I think I need to do a better job of kind of, I guess, digging into their pain and and creating urgency.

>> Okay. Anything else?

>> I mean, I think objections, but I think a lot of times the objections that I'm getting is kind of a result of of this.

>> Okay. Gotcha. So, you're losing deals to having objections because you're not able to develop the sense of urgency by not going into the pain. Is that correct?

>> That That's what I think. Yeah.

>> Okay. Gotcha. And so, we're just almost halfway through the month of July. Let's just look at your numbers for the last three months, starting with last month. So, what was your how much income did you earn last month?

>> Last month I was um like right at 5,000.

>> Okay. And the previous month?

>> Previous month was a little lower. I think I was at like 4,200 that month.

>> Got it. And then how about April?

>> It was just under 5,000. I think it was like 46 or 48. So I I probably average right around 4500 to 5,000 right in there.

>> Okay. Gotcha. And how long have you been stuck at that 5K mark?

>> I would switch that Jeremy. Is there a different way to ask that piece of data? So far so good.

>> Slightly different. And the reason I don't want to phrase it in that way is whilst you're using that question to gather data, the phrasing of the question is very similar if not almost identical to a question that we want to keep in our back pocket, which is which is the how long has this been going on question cuz that's the expander question. Okay, you've been at this thing, you've had these problems, you're in this emotional state, you can't pay for your wife, you can't do this. How long's that been going on? Yeah, that's why I was I want to kind of keep that phrasing out of the equation so that when I later on the call, it's like a Whoa, we haven't talked about expanding that. Now, what you do need to know is what you're asking cuz you need to know, okay, he said averaging 4500. How long has that been going on? What's a different way that you can get to that piece of data instead of just asking how long's it been going on?

>> Well, how about if I just ask, okay, how long have you been u on uh how long have you been on this offer for?

>> Perfect. How long have you been on the offer or how long have you been in sales?

>> Okay. Yeah.

>> Either of those. I want to phrase it as almost background information as opposed to elongating the pain.

>> I want to keep that question for later. Does that make sense?

>> Yes, sir.

>> Keep going. Good stuff.

>> Okay. Thank you. So, Don, how long have you been on this offer for?

>> About a about a year and a half.

>> Okay. One and a half years.

>> Hang on. Hang on.

>> How do you How do you feel about that timeline, Jeremy?

>> I feel like that's a long time to be on an offer if he's making 5K a month right now. I need to know how much money has he been averaging basically for the last year and a half.

>> 100%. We need that data. But remember, when we're gathering the data, we're not just looking at the other person's data. We're coming across to the other side and standing next to them and feeling the rain, feeling the storm. I felt the same thing as you. I was like, "Fuck, a year and a half." Now, I'm not going to say it like that to the prospect, but you're going to hear it in my tonality. So, say that to me again. You were like, "Oh, uh, I'll I'll do the question and say the same thing." Okay. And how how long have you been on this offer, Don?

>> For about a year and a half.

>> A year and a half.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. Got it. Notice the difference. I'm going to hold you on that.

>> Mhm.

>> Slight cuz I'm not going to judge you,

>> but I'm judging that data. I'm like, that doesn't sound very good,

>> right?

>> And that's what's going to start heating things up, pulling in the vacuum for Don to have to step in it.

>> Okay. Okay. Jeremy. Good stuff.

>> Okay. So, a year and a half. How much how long have you been at that four to 5K range over the last year and a half?

>> About the last three months.

>> Great question, Jeremy. Great data. I want to pull it back to a more open-ended version of that question. It was an open-ended question, but there's an even more open version that's going to have to make Don fill in what's going on. You said, "How long have you been at blank number?"

>> Okay.

>> He's going to just give you, well, 3 months, 6 months, this month, blah blah blah. It's quite

>> Can I throw something out there?

>> Go for it.

>> Can I say okay, how much how much have you been averaging prior to the last 3 months?

>> Could do that.

>> Okay.

>> What about this? What? And before Don answers, just hear the question and think how much how broad can the the prospect the salesperson's answers be based on my question. Okay, Don, so you've been on this offer for a year and a half and recently, we've covered the last 3 months, you've been averaging 4,500. How has your income compared to that over the last year and a half? How has your income compared to that over the last year and a half?

>> Oh, it's been up, it's been down, it's been a roller coaster, it's been this, it's been that. And what that's going to do, we're going to start tilting from pure numbers to him getting a bit emotional about it because he's now having to storytell rather than give you numbers. He's going to have to walk you going to have to walk you back through the story of what's been going on for a year and a half and go there. Whereas what he can do right now, which is good because we want to just keep the prospect, you know, uh uh line by line. Right now, he's just giving you facts. This number, this number, this number, this number. We now want to try and start building it more into what what the hell's going on as a story. Does that make sense?

>> Yep. Yep.

>> All right, keep going.

>> Okay. I feel like that's kind of a leading question. How how has your income how has your income been over the last year and a half prior to the last three months?

>> Well, I mean, I was averaging about 7,500 to 8,000. So in the last 3 months, I mean, we've had some different things happen as far as lead flow and stuff like that. And so, yeah, that's kind of why I'm feeling the pinch.

>> Understood. Okay. And let's talk about I understand that lead flow has, you know, played an impact and and made you feel this pinch. Let's talk about your individual performance. What's your closing ratio for June? Let's say

>> Jeremy.

>> Okay.

>> I would have got a little bit more data before we shift into a different conversation cuz what we've got is the last 3 months

>> and we've got that there was a period.

>> I don't know when. I don't know how long. For

>> somewhere within a year and a half where he was making 8,000.

>> Personally, I would want to know when was that

>> and how long for. And let's say he said that was six months ago and it was for three months. Fine. Well, now I've got that period six months ago for three months. I've got the most recent three months. Well, what the [ __ ] was going on for the first year?

>> That's still a pretty large time period.

>> Yeah.

>> I still want to know cuz I want to know his experience currently. And the reason for those that are like, well, is this not the past? It's the past continuous, meaning he's still in this situation of not making the money he wants to be making because he said he's struggling with pain and he's struggling with the urgency and therefore getting objections. I want that history cuz it's going to allow me to quantify it.

>> That makes sense. I guess my mind at where I was at in my mind was he was blaming outside factors and so I wanted to wanted him to take ownership for where he's currently at. But I understand what you're saying. Like if he would have said, "Oh, his close ratio was higher." Then I would have probably gone into that more data more. But uh that's what I was my mindset was getting him to take ownership of it.

>> Great. I love that mindset. And the and the reason that that's also going to be connected to what I was saying is let's say he said that this 7,500 to 8,000 was only a 3-month period and the entire year before that he was at,

>> you know, 4,000. Well, it's starting to get a little bit harder for him to hide behind, oh, it was just this random change in the lead flow and change in the offer. It's like quite frankly, Don, and I'm saying this as the prospect, Don, not the real Don, you've sucked at sales for a year and a half. Like, you you can say you had a little bit of a up moment with some leads, but basically, we've covered your entire time on this offer, and you've never been making any decent money. Even when you're saying the leads were good and things were better, if this was the data that he gave you, you've never made more than $8,000. So, how are you now going to justify it was it's the leads when you've never been able to make any good money? And then the the slight out that the prospect could say would be, well, it's the reason I've never been able to make money is because of the offer. Fine. And if you want to play that game, how easy is it going to be for me to say, "So why have you stayed there for a year and a half?"

>> Mhm.

>> Like we're just locking down anything that he can use as as get out clauses. Does that make sense, Jeremy?

>> Yep.

>> I would have just got those extra two bits of data. Keep going from there.

>> Okay. So, help me understand uh when were you making around 7500 to 8K a month, Don?

>> Well, when I first got started, I mean, I was obviously just getting acclimated and stuff like that and kind of learning the lay of the land. So the first month or two I think I was right around you know 4,000 5,000 but then you know in that third month I think it was is when you know I kind of kind of you know hit my stride I guess and you know bumped it up. So I guess for about a year yeah it was probably about two or three months just kind of getting ramped up and then probably for a solid year or so.

>> Okay. So for a year you were making 7 7500 to 8K a month. Am I understanding what you're saying?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. And then uh for the last

>> I would lean on the pain a little bit more on that. Jeremy, what could you say? What are you really thinking when someone says I was making seven and a half to 8K for a year?

>> Yeah, what I'm thinking is okay well let's fill in the final gaps. I understand the first 1 to 2 months he was making 4 to 5K when he was first getting started learning the offer. Understood. And then for about a year he was at 7 to 8K. But there's still like a two two to 3 month gap where uh up until April I want to know what he was making there as well. So that way I have the full picture of how much his income has gone like this.

>> Yep. Absolutely. Let's fill in the picture. What can we add on in addition to getting that extra data about the oneyear bit?

>> I mean I want to hear what's the difference in his opinion. What's the difference in the leads for that year versus now? What happened to the leads in the last 3 to 6 months?

>> Put in the chat. Anybody if you have a different suggestion, this could be some very interesting data here. Put in the chat. Finally, Yuri, good stuff. I was like, I hope nobody on this call, given that we're all salespeople, is thinking it's okay to not progress for a year.

>> Mhm.

>> cuz if that was the consensus belief of everybody on this chat, we have a big problem. The fact that he didn't go up for an entire year, that's not good.

>> Mhm.

>> So, I would lean on that. So, I'd say, okay, so you started at 4 1/2K, a year and a half later, you're at the same place again, 4 1/2K, and for an entire year in the middle, you were at 7 1/2K, and you didn't make any financial progress. Is that accurate, Don?

>> Yes.

>> Notice the difference. And I'm not leading.

>> That's the data.

>> Yeah. Exactly. And it's basically the question. It's the b it's basically my third question that I asked, but now it's more powerful because we have more data over the last year and a half.

>> True.

>> Okay. Personally, in many cases, unless there's a piece of data that you're missing that could make your hypothesis potentially incorrect, strike while the iron is hot. Meaning, he just said the bit of information about for a whole year I was at 7 12K. The iron is hot. Strike now. If you need to gather more data,

>> okay,

>> prioritywise, striking while the iron is hot is a higher priority than gathering more data. Unless you don't have enough data to strike the iron.

>> That's what I was wondering too is Yeah. I was wondering if I had the iron hot enough by not having enough data with like for example the lead flow was an excuse that he used. So I I almost wonder if I struck while the iron's hot right now, he could say, "Well, the lead blah blah blah or whatever, you know, hey, I had less leads, but I was still making 8K or something." and then being able to. So that's what I'm wondering is if I don't have enough data to strike yet.

>> You don't have enough data to strike and try and blame Don for the result because he can say, "Well, it was the leads."

>> Yeah.

>> But we've got enough data to strike at the pain point, which is

>> your income hasn't increased for a whole year.

>> Mhm.

>> It would be premature to try and say, "Okay, so you haven't increased your skill set for your income to go any higher." because he could turn around and say, "It's not my skill set, it's the offer, it's the leads." Fine. That would be a little bit too much cuz he has a back a back door to get out of that. But to just simply say the pain, which is so a year and a half ago, you're at four four to 5K. 18 months later, you're making the same amount of money. You haven't made any progress. And in the middle, there was a period where you were making 7 12 to 8K, but for an entire year, that number didn't increase. Is that accurate?

>> Yes.

>> Okay, got it. So, it sounds like Don, if I wanted to go a bit further, it sounds like Don, you've you've basically spent a year and a half

>> to not make any progress in the grand scheme of things.

>> Is that accurate?

>> Yes.

>> Mhm.

>> Interesting.

>> And then we go to why do you think that is?

>> Then wants to say, oh, it's the leads, it's the offer, blah blah blah. Okay. Interesting. And so given that you were on this offer not making progress for an entire year once you know the leads were better which was you know the 7.5 to 8K any particular reason you didn't change offer.

>> I'm going to start leaning out but that leaning out is going to make Don have to kind of fumble over his words. Does that make sense Jeremy?

>> Yep. Um, as far as the skill set, you mentioned that that was going to be one of my questions of like, okay, over the last year and a half, have you, you know, looked into increasing your skill set at all?

>> Could I think that's more going towards solutions, which personally I don't do much of. I prefer to just try and get the cause of the effect rather than

>> or what have you done.

>> Yeah, Yeah. Okay.

>> More just okay, you've been in this situation. Why? Why do you think? Well, I think it's this. I think it's that um to answer Harry's question, I was just about to type it. So Harry says in the chat, "Is that slightly leading though to basically lean on the prospect and say your 7 to 8k is [ __ ] because for some people they might be happy with that." Yes, that would be leading. But we're not saying the amount of money, Harry, is [ __ ] We're saying the lack of progress is [ __ ]

>> Oh, I'm not a good I'm not focusing on seven 7k [ __ ] I'm focusing on a year of your time to go by and not increase your results is [ __ ]

>> Whether you were making it, quite frankly, if you're at 50k a month in commissions and a year goes by and you're still at 50k, I would be holding you accountable to the fact that what the [ __ ] have you been doing for the last year? Like, are you the I wouldn't be going here in the sales context, but in my mind, I'm I want to discover the person. Are you the type of person that cares about making progress continually? This is what we talked about in the YouTube video and what we did the other day that education is not something you did. It's something you do. That is a successful mindset. That is a winner's mindset. That is a person that will go places.

>> The person that doesn't go places is the person that stays where they're at. And partly as Harry's saying, the reason a lot of sales people stay where they're at is because they are comfortable with the amount of money they're currently making. You shouldn't be measuring how much money you're making, guys. You should be measuring how much you're improving the amount of money you're making. Are you moving forward? Why is that the thing you should care about? Because the only variable that you can't buy back is time. So if time is passing by and you are not improving your results and therefore your life experience, you are failing, you are not succeeding. Make sense everyone? Okay,

>> that's good for the people watching the YouTube content.

>> I know.

>> Okay, got it. All right, so let's go back to where we're at. Okay, so let me recap here and make sure I understand where you're at, Don. So you have been with on this offer for a year and a half. You started off making about 4K. You had a year where you were doing 7500 to 8K. And a year and a half later, you're still at four, you know, four to 5K. Is that correct?

>> Yeah, that's accurate.

>> Okay. With that being said, why why do you uh how do you feel about not making any progress over the last year and a half?

>> Well, I mean, that's that's why I'm here. Okay. I'm I'm not clear on how that makes you feel.

>> Well, I don't like it, you know, and I want to I want to I want to change it.

>> Okay. What specifically do you not like about it?

>> Well, I mean, I don't like the fact that my

>> We're leading we're leading more into a conversation, which I've said before, where you know the [ __ ] answer. Don't ask. Don't ask.

>> I don't.

>> Yeah. I I I don't I want to, you know, I want him to verbalize why he's why he's not happy with it. And that's why I'm leading. I'm just using his words to let him open up a little bit more.

>> Most people, well, everybody knows why not making progress is not enjoyable cuz you're not making progress. It It's as simple as that. But there is a question in there that we don't know the answer to and and I'm genuinely confused and genuinely curious about it. You asked

>> what has he done to try to make progress?

>> When specifically when

>> I mean over the last when he was doing seven or 8K when he was you know when he was there for a year at what point you know was he at what point did he get to how long has he not been happy with the progress he's been making?

>> What you were saying before was better. So the previous question you said which you then kind of double tied down but you don't need to double tie down. The previous question you said was something like

>> you know how do you feel that for that year you didn't make any progress and he said I don't feel good that's why I'm on the call

>> right

>> then wanted to go into well why don't you feel good about not making progress that's too far into

>> we know why he doesn't feel good because he's not making progress. How about like what? Sorry. Go ahead.

>> I'm trying to come up with the answer on my own without being spoonfed on it. Um, if that's okay.

>> Absolutely. What you got?

>> Okay. So, you have you've What have you done to try to make progress?

>> We got to be specific on the timeline.

>> Okay.

>> We've got to tie it to the context of what the prospect just said. Listen to this, Jeremy.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. Hey, Don. So, you said that the reason you're on this call is because you didn't make progress and you're not happy with that. So, what I'm curious about, Don, is was there anything specific that you were doing during that year where you didn't increase your income at 7 12 to 8K? Was there anything you were doing? Look at what that's doing, Jeremy. If he turns, let's play both options out. He turns around and says no. Well, now he's contradicted what he said to you two questions ago, which is, "I don't like making no progress." What we care about more is prove what you're saying with your actions, not prove what you're saying cuz you're going to give me [ __ ] war and peace on why you don't like making progress. You could just tell me some [ __ ] fairy tale. Nobody cares.

>> Prove it to me with your results. If he then if he turns around and says no, we're now pretty close to the point where we can start hammering him.

>> Okay.

>> On ownership. Okay, Don. So, you you say that you're the type of person that doesn't like not making progress. A year and a half has gone by, you haven't made progress, but if I'm understanding correctly, during the year when you're at 7 and 12 to 8K, you weren't making any progress, but you weren't doing anything about it. Is that accurate? and my my tone of is that accurate is I'm basically saying you just contradicted yourself, but I'm gonna make it sound like maybe I missed something here. May maybe it's me that is the dumbass that didn't connect the dots here. That's my kind of I know you contradicted yourself. You know you contradicted yourself. But if I tell you you just contradicted yourself because I'm pushing towards you, you're going to pull away. I'm going to pull away and be like, Don, what the [ __ ] Like I'm scratching my head. I'm confused. What if I missed here? Am I Am I a [ __ ] idiot? And Don's now going to be like, "Oh, well, I can't turn around to him and say he is an idiot because no, I just contradicted myself." So, he's going to have to lean in. Let's play the other option. Yes, I was doing blank blank blank. Interesting. Okay, what specifically were you doing? I was doing this training, this thing, this thing, this thing. Okay, got it. And how many hours were you spending on that? And he says 40 hours a month, which I'm picking an extreme number to show it wasn't his lack of effort. Okay.

>> So, so for a year you spent 480 hours on blank blank blank training yet you didn't make any progress. I mean, you're now 6 months after that. Have you come up with any reasons why you think that is?

>> Oh, I think it's cuz I was training objection handling and tonality and scripts and word tracks and blah blah blah. Interesting. Why? Why did you come to that conclusion? Well, I came and now he's selling himself on the solution that you're about to sell him,

>> but he's doing it all through data gathering.

>> Does that make sense? How that line of questioning is so much more productive than tell me why you're the type of person that doesn't like not progressing. It's like

>> we don't like progressing.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay, fair enough. I I guess in my mind what I was thinking was kind of in context with that YouTube video about not educating that some people losers like we talked about, you know, don't focus. They don't have that growth mindset. And so that's where I was kind of going with that. But I like your question a lot better with put tying it into the context. So

>> we want to know does someone have the growth mindset fact or fiction? And how

>> how do you know fact or fiction? What has been your behaviors?

>> Yeah, exactly. Versus what he's saying.

>> It's like the old phrase, show me your habits and I will show you your future.

>> Don't tell me what you want for your f. Oh, I want this and I want the house and I want the car going off on a quick rent to the YouTube members watching. If you're saying you want the life that you could live as a salesperson, you want to make more money, what does your habits look like? Do you have a highle mentor? Are you in a high level community? And are you taking massive action on regular training? If the answer is no, then your habits are telling me what future you actually want. You can tell me the words of what you want, but they're [ __ ] Your habits are showing how bad you really want it. And that's what we're doing with a a prospect on a call. We ask them a general question. What do you want? I want this. Okay, cool. Now, I'm going to validate it. And then we get most likely because the prospect's not where they want to be, a contradiction. You said you want this, but you're doing this. Why? And now the prospect has to, and this is a key word guys, reconcile the difference. You make the prospect do the reconciliation based on two sides of the data that are contradicting each other as opposed to you trying to lead the prospect to blank answer and then they'll just fight back against you. Does that make sense?

>> Absolutely.

>> Awesome.

>> I'm having a little aha moment. So, when we recap,

>> do you want to share? Do you want to share now? What's the aha moment? Well, the it's it's the the habits in the future thing. You I say I want a 100K, right? I've I hit that 50K a month and and what have my habits been over the last [ __ ] 6 months, you know? I've been just chilling and enjoying 25K a month and it's like in instead of like I'm taking naps and stuff in the afternoon just if I don't have anything on the calendar, cool. It's kind of a chill day rather than okay, what can I do to actually grow my business? What are the habits that are proving to you and myself that I actually want this? So, that's the that's the aha moment. The other one is is uh tying in that it's not the lack of money that they're making it [ __ ] It's the lack of progress because when we were on the line of question, one of the questions I was thinking about asking him was what's the most amount of money he's ever earned before? Because if he's made 15 to 20 grand a month and he's on, you know, 4 to 8K a month, like why is he here on this offer? But he's never if he's never made 8K a month, he might think that, hey, that's really good. It's it's I know where I was when I first hit six figures. I thought I was pretty good.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, then I stayed started making 40 and 50 grand after I invested in coaching and stuff a month. So anyway,

>> just one additional thing on that. You know, when Jeremy says, "What are the habits?" And that shows you the future. And Jeremy's phrasing was uh you know what what am I showing to myself? You know, what are my habits showing to myself as far as I want the future?

>> Going to the spiritual side, guys, what are your habits showing to God or to the spirit or to the universe that you want? Because you're not just having to look yourself in the mirror and say, am I actually showing myself that I do want this future that I'm telling myself? You've also got to remember a lot of success in life comes down to what most people call luck. It's not luck. It's a reflection of the luck that you're creating. And if you're not luckily finding the unicorn offer, luckily finding that your prospects are good prospects, it's cuz you're not telling the universe with your actions that you actually want those things. The and it and this is why it becomes compounding effect. The more you actually do the things that you're supposed to be doing to get the future you want, the more the future starts coming towards you and it's like you've got the present and you've got the future and you're moving towards the future by doing the right activities and the future then gets closer to you and you're pulling from both ends and that's where things meet in the middle and they happen very [ __ ] quickly. Whereas what most people are doing is going, "Oh, my I say I want this future, but my habits aren't actually going towards there." And and if if you're being honest, the future then gets further and further away from you. Because like, well, you're showing me the complete contradiction that you want this thing, and God's like, "Fuck you. If you don't actually want this thing, I'll go give it to someone else. I'll take it away from you. You don't want it, so I'll go put it somewhere else."

>> Yep.

>> Everything is attraction or rejection. Things are either going towards you or going away from you. They don't just sit in the same place, guys. You're either pulling it towards you or pushing it away. And the thing that does that is what are your actual habits, not what are you telling yourself you want. What are your actions telling yourself and telling the universe that you actually want? All right, keep going, Jeremy.

>> Okay, just to remember where we were at. Recap, Don. I think we uh just asked you that uh you've been basically stuck and you a year and a half later, you're still here. I asked you how does that make you feel? you said that you know you don't like it. Uh so I'm going to ask you u so during the year when you were at 7 and a half to 8K a month was there anything you were doing to make progress to make more than 7 and a half. Go ahead Josh

>> beautiful flip it to glass half empty. Okay. So, what was there anything that you were doing over that year when you were stuck at 7 and a half to 8K to try to make progress?

>> No. No. Flip the try to make progress to glass half empty.

>> Not try to make progress.

>> Oh, okay. To get out of uh to get out of that stagnation or

>> to get out of not making any progress.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, was there anything in particular that you were doing over that year when you were at 7 and a half to 8K a month uh when you weren't to when you weren't making progress?

>> Damn. I I feel like I'm nuts.

>> That's not bad.

>> Hold on. Let me go ahead. Go ahead.

>> Do you want to have another go? Was there anything that you were doing over the last that year when you were at 7 and a halfk and not making any progress?

>> Um, anything I was doing as far as what

>> he said that because you didn't quite nail the end.

>> Okay.

>> I don't think he could say that if I say it like this and and everything you said up to the end is going to be basically the same last bit. So during that year, Don, when you weren't making any progress, was there anything you were doing to try and get out of that place where you weren't making progress?

>> No, nothing. Nothing in particular. No.

>> Okay. So is there any particular difference between you were quite content with going through a year of not making any progress 6 months ago to now telling me and telling yourself that you're no longer willing to not be making progress? Is there any difference between then and now?

>> Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, the difference is my income went down.

>> Okay. So to make sure I'm clear, are you saying that you want your income to get back to 7 and a half to 8K and so long as it stays there indefinitely, that's totally fine, or is anything different?

>> Well, I mean, no, I mean, I wouldn't say I want to stay there forever. No. Um, it's just that, you know, when you're making a certain amount and then your income goes down like, you know, 30 or 40%. Something's got to something's got to change.

>> Okay. So, what what's changed with the drop in the income that now something has to change?

>> Well, I mean, I I've got bills. I've got, you know, a family to support. And so, you know, losing losing 30 to 40% of my income, that's just not sustainable.

>> Why is that not sustainable?

>> Again, I I got I got a family to support. I've got bills to pay, you know,

>> and so what about those things is making it not sustainable? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but are you saying you can't make those bills right now and you're going into debt or or what's going on?

>> Yeah, I'm in I'm in a tight spot financially because my income is is not where it was.

>> And how does where your income is now compared to your expenses?

>> I mean, it it's it doesn't it doesn't cover my expenses. So now, you know, having to put things on

>> pause. You notice how Don's trying to wrigle out of it. He like he he's telling me things, but he's not telling me the the detailed I am poor. I am going into debt. And you've got to stay on the prospect, guys, until they actually have to lay it out and put themselves on the line. Like I need Don to specifically say or I'm not moving on from this point, what the actual problem is. Oh, I'm pretty tight. What the [ __ ] does that mean?

>> Yeah, I was thinking so

>> I was thinking as we were going through this I wanted to ask him when he brought up the bill specifically. Okay. So what exactly are your monthly expenses and then draw that draw the connect the dots and draw the conclusion from there.

>> Okay.

>> You need the data. You need the left side and the right side.

>> Mhm.

>> Yep. The only difference is part of what I'm doing by not just going straight to that question is I'm starting to turn up the heat, not just with the questions, but with Don realizing like, don't [ __ ] around.

>> And it's like there's there's a caveat to you just saying, "Okay, what's your expenses?" On one hand, you're putting his feet closer to the fire because he now has two comparable numbers, his input and his income and his expenses. But on the other hand, you're actually taking him away from the fire because you're now doing the work for him.

>> Okay, what's your numbers? It's this. It's like having an accountant that's doing all your accounts for you. Sure, it means you're more accurate on your accounts than if you weren't doing your accounts, but it's a better option if you're like, "Okay, I better look at my own expenses, my own things, and see where I'm [ __ ] up my financial literacy." So that's kind of like an advanced thing, Jeremy, of like you need to do exactly what you're doing. But because I'm getting the vibe, and why I'm getting the vibe is because he was perfectly happy to not progress for a year, I'm getting the vibe that this is the type of prospect that is typically fairly negligent with actually thinking things through. Like it doesn't take much thought to think through I haven't made any progress for a year to realize that's not good. The type of person that isn't doing much thinking. I want to play the dance with that prospect of how much thinking can I get them to do? I want to do I want to make them do as much as I possibly can. If they get stuck because they're in a habit for years of not thinking things through, I'll start just asking data gathering questions or maybe even a bit of a a yes no question if I have to push it to there. But I'm always going to give the prospect the benefit of the doubt first. Try and see if I can get them to do the work. Does that make sense, Jeremy?

>> Yeah. Yeah. As you were going through the question, I was think the questions I'm having a bit of a realization and trying to connect the dots here. It seemed like maybe the quality of the answers we were getting was because the quality of the questions weren't great. So I thought maybe maybe I needed to ask a more specific question like what exactly are his monthly expenses so that we can get the data and we can say okay so was there any particular reason why you weren't saving money or or whatever you know going from there and and holding his feet to the fire there. But so I guess the lack of connection is when do you know when you're if you're not getting the answers that you need to get? When do you know if it's due to my quality lack of quality questions versus like holding, you know, ramping up the heat and turning up the heat and getting him to open up and think.

>> It's usually down to your fault if it goes into one of two categories. prospect is confused with what you're asking

>> or the or the prospect is going off into a different conversation or terrain of conversation because what you're asking isn't relevant.

>> Okay?

>> So long as they're not confused and so long as it's not this is irrelevant, your questions are probably fine. It's that the prospect needs to step up the game and have a bit more participation in the conversation here. Now, obviously there comes a fine line of [ __ ] me, you know, they're just not participating. I'm having to drag them over the line.

>> Well, then you start turning up the heat a little bit and trying to move the conversation forward. But it's like a lot of things um I'm trying to think of a an example where you can do certain things in life that have a speed up effect, but they have a consequence as a result of that. And so you have to look at your situation and go, are things moving so slowly that I'm willing to to do the hack to speed things up knowing that there'll be a repercussion? And it's like, you've got to look at that and think,

>> okay, this conversation is just really not going anywhere. I'm going to try and speed it up by asking more pointed questions, maybe a bit of leading, maybe a bit of offering suggestions. What I'll tell you is that that is going to be building up a repercussion of lack of lack of association and ownership by the prospect that you may have to come back around later and overcompensate for the fact that you've lowered the investment and the engagement of the prospect. So, it's almost like, okay, what I need to do right now has precedence. So, I'll do what I need to do now to get the conversation moving, but later on I'm going to have to come back to something that I I created a problem by the methodology that I was using. It's like I'm going to create a YouTube video on this, but a simple thing is salespeople that want to increase their income by getting handed a bunch of word tracks. They may, and they probably do, increase their income from where it is now temporarily because they didn't know what to say and now they've got some things up their sleeves which are written on pieces of paper what to say. But there's a repercussion of that which is they start getting bored of selling. They start feeling inauthentic with how they're selling. They start checking out from being present on the calls. And even if they're still using the word tracks that they were using six months ago, they become less effective because now the prospect knows this closer isn't even present. They're not [ __ ] listening. They're just reading off their their word tracks. And so a lot of things in life, we look for the short-term gain. And sometimes you have to take it. Sometimes you need to take it. Sometimes you choose to take it. But there's always going to be a repercussion later on down the line that you're going to have to come back around and now solve the fact that you're bored of selling, feel disingenuous selling, and are actually turning off your prospects and now your results go down. The long-term better option is how about I learn a way to sell that has a slower learning curve but has an infinite potential. Whereas what most people want is they want the quick gain and then things steady out and then often they go back down on the other side. And so there's like these two ways of looking at things and in my opinion you should always try and go for the long term. It's almost like say and this might be super controversial to put on YouTube but uh some people have the belief that there are certain treatments for cancer like chemotherapy that may solve the initial cancer but they cause so much damage to your body by killing the cancer that now you've got an extremely weakened immune system that you die from the lack of immune system. And so it's things like that. It's like uh where's the line? And it's like, well, are you about to die from your cancer in the next 6 weeks? Probably better take the chemotherapy even though you might die later from the chemotherapy. Does that make sense, Jeremy? It's kind of like looking at things in that bigger picture and seeing the the pros and cons, things like that.

>> Okay, understood. So, B, and that's kind of why we're on scriptless, right? Because you can go one way or another depending on how the prospect's showing up. And in this case, the prospect's showing up a little bit uh you know um like he's not taking ownership and so we have to kind of hold the feet to the fire there. Okay. So with that being said,

Uh, where we left off, I guess, was that he was saying that he's not able to keep up with, you know, his bills right now and his lifestyle with his family at the income he's at right now. I guess my my question is, I need to know how bad the situation is and how long has it been like that for. Are you good with that, Josh?

>> 100%.

>> Okay. Okay. Um, so let's, let's let me get clarity on this, Don, on how long you've been in this position where you're not able to make your, uh, monthly expenses. So, where you're at right now making, you know, four to 5K a month, how much are your actual monthly expenses each month?

>> About 6,500.

>> Okay. So, when last month in June, when you only made 5K compared to that 6,500, what ended up happening with the extra $1,500 that you didn't make to cover your expenses?

>> I had to, you know, I have savings, so I take some stuff out of there and also, you know, credit cards as well.

>> Okay. So, you, uh, made up the $1,500 difference by pulling from savings and from putting on credit cards, correct?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. How much did you have to put on credit cards to cover that $1,500 gap?

>> What I would be looking at now, Jeremy, is I'd be clockwatching. I'd be like,

>> We, we've, we've slowed down in the beginning to bring the prospect in. Beautiful. He's up. I'm now going to start thinking, hm, can I speed this up a little bit?

>> How about like, what if I asked them like, how much, how much have you racked up in credit card debt to pay for those expenses and how much money do you have left in savings instead of month by month by month, basically?

>> Okay.

>> Exactly. Because I'm looking at the time and I'm thinking we went month by month by month of his lack of sales results. Beautiful. Don't you don't want to speed up at the front part of the call, cuz otherwise you'll miss something. But now we're probably, if this hadn't had the training in between, we might be 8 minutes into the call now.

>> Like we're like a third of the way through max discovery time.

>> So I'm looking at that and thinking, okay, ex, you nailed it, Jeremy. I'd just be thinking, okay, got it. So what you've been doing broad strokes is using credit card and using savings. I might ask one additional question there. What would that be, Jeremy?

>> Well, when he was making 7 to 8K a month, what was he doing with that extra $1,500 a month?

>> Could do that as well. Yeah. Though that's a little bit far into the past and not so much into pain.

>> Okay.

>> The only other question I might say there just to cover my tracks. Anything else?

>> Okay. So, you've been using credit cards, you've been using savings. Any other way that you've been covering this shortfall?

>> Okay.

>> Uh, no.

>> Okay, cool. Now I know. Why do I want to do that, Jeremy? Just before what I said we're about to do.

>> I mean, the only thing I'm thinking of is drawing out more pain if he had to borrow money from family or something like that, or if there was any unexpected expenses or something. That's the only thing I can think of.

>> Not quite. The reason we want to do that is we're about to speed up. I do not want to speed up when there may have been an entirely other track of road that by speeding up I'm not going to see that other pathway as we drive past it. So it's almost like if you're about to pull out on a junction and you're about to pull out really quickly, the first thing you're going to do is look left and right and see is there any other traffic coming. So that's what I'm doing. I'm looking ahead of me and saying I'm going to dig into the savings and I'm going to dig into the credit card, but I'm about to pull out and speed up. I'm going to go, is there anything to the right of me and is there anything to the left of me before I speed up?

>> Okay.

>> Does that make sense? So, I'm covering, I'm I'm compensating for the fact that I'm about to speed up by just cutting off anything else that I need to cover. And that almost gives me the ability to put my blinkers on and say, I'm going to rack rack through these questions or this data very quickly. And then once I've got that chunk of data, which is the financial cost to his expenses superseding his income, I might then slow down again and start looking left and right and going broad strokes again.

>> So you're you're just covering your tracks.

>> Okay, that makes sense. But exactly what you said is what you want to do, which is rather than go, okay, last month you made 5K. What exactly were your expenses? Got it. The month before was 4,200. What were your expenses? That's going to take too long.

>> Okay.

>> I just want a broad thing, which is how long's this been going on for?

>> Mhm.

>> I wouldn't say going on for, I would be specific. How long has your expenses been more than your income?

>> Got it. Six months. During that six months, how much have you spent in savings and how much have you put on credit card? And now from two questions, we cover that whole chunk of data. Speeding things up a little bit.

>> And then I also, yeah. And I also feel like I need to know how much money does he have left in savings now.

>> 100%. Absolutely.

>> Okay. All right. Good. Just make sure I'm on the right pace.

>> Absolutely.

>> Okay. All right. So, Don, so how long have you been in this situation where you've had to, uh, cover the lack of income to meet to be able to pay your expenses?

>> Be careful. You don't phrase that downplaying the pain.

>> It's not covering the covering the lack of income. No, no, no. How, how long has your income been less than your expenses? I'm using the word your like I want this to be Don's fault and Don's problem, not, oh, the income that God decided to pay you just unfortunately is less than your expenses. It's like, oh, yeah, you know, hard, hard life for me. No, this is your problem and your fault.

>> Okay. So how, how long have your, uh, how long has your income been less than your expenses?

>> Well, these last three months.

>> Okay. And so over the last three months where your income hasn't been enough to pay your monthly expenses, how much credit card debt have you racked up?

>> Now pause.

>> If you phrase it like that,

>> Little too hard.

>> He might, he might be uncomfortable to answer.

>> Okay. How much credit, how much credit card debt have, how much have you charged in credit cards over the last 3 months? The only thing you need to change is contextualize in Don's mind why you're asking the question and therefore he can't wriggle out of it. Instead of just saying over the last 3 months, how much credit card did you use up? It's like, I don't really want to answer that question. Instead, all you need to say is, during the last three months to cover your expenses, which were less than your income, you've been using credit cards and you've been using savings. How much have you put on credit card? By contextualizing it, it's like, I'm asking this question cuz that's what we're digging into, Don. So, you can't not want to answer the question cuz that's the problem you want to solve. You see how just finessing, okay, if, if I, you're almost explaining to Don, you've been using credit cards, you've been using savings for the last three months, therefore how much have you used? You're contextualizing it. So he can't really not want to answer it. So you don't really have a choice. You either, you want me to solve a problem and you don't want to tell me how big the problem is, or well, then we can't go anywhere in the call.

>> Okay. Understood.

>> Okay. So over the last 3 months because your income hasn't been, uh, because you haven't earned enough income to pay for your expenses, you've had to go into savings and add credit card debt. How much credit card debt have you had to use to pay your expenses?

>> Well, over the last three months, uh, it's probably been about 5,000.

>> And I would just change had to use versus do you have now? Present versus past in.

>> Okay.

>> Over the last three months, how much credit have you had to use? Nah, not so good. Over the last three months, how much credit debt have you accrued?

>> Okay. Credit debt are you in?

>> Not have you used past versus present. Keep it on the present.

>> My slight niggles.

>> Okay. My little bit of fear with asking that question is if he were to say, "Well, I had 10k before, now I'm at 15k or something like that." And where he might think that the previous, the previous debt that he had was irrelevant to the conversation now. That's what I'm, that was my fear.

>> Great point. Very, very specific, Jeremy. I like it. Frankly, I don't think it would matter too much, but it's definitely something that if a closer asked that question the way I phrased it and they didn't have the foresight to think, well, it could be previous debt plus additional debt, that might bite the closer in the ass. So long as you're aware that it could be an accumulation of past debt and previous debt, ultimately what matters is Don's in a bigger amount of debt right now that makes him feel even more uncomfortable. But the fact that you're aware of that, Jeremy, is very good that you're like, "Well, could be previous debt combined with new debt." So if you want to ask it and separate the two, that's totally fine as well.

>> All right. So over the last 3 months when you, where your income wasn't enough to pay your expenses, how much credit card debt, uh, have you accumulated?

>> Over the last 3 months?

>> It's not, it's not have you accumulated, it's are you in?

>> Okay. Okay. How much credit card debt are you, are you in?

>> Well, it's gone up over the last three months because of this. Um, it's gone up about 5,000.

>> Okay. And how much total credit card debt are you in?

>> Good stuff, Jar. It's about 15.

>> 15K. Okay. And how much of your savings over the last three months have you spent in order to pay your expenses?

>> Before we switch to savings,

>> Okay.

>> We might be able to get some very interesting data about this person's entire track record of financial success. What would have been one additional question that you could have asked Jeremy that would have?

>> How long, uh, how long have you had that $10,000 or how long have you not been able to pay off that previous debt or something like that?

>> Could be that, but that's splitting out the questions a little bit more than necessary, a little bit too granular. What I care most about is where did that come from?

>> Because let's just imagine two scenarios and it's probably not scenario one if this was a real prospect. Scenario one,

>> Someone passed away. I mean, even really that scenario would still count to scenario two, but I'll use that as an example. Scenario one, someone passed away and there was an unexpected expense that we had to put on a credit card. That's scenario one.

>> Scenario two is,

>> Well, if I'm honest with you, Jeremy, you know, in the past about two years ago, I was unemployed and I had no income and I had expenses and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. In other words, same [ __ ] different day. You do not have a solid track record of making more money than your expenses. Now, what I meant by part one or option one is basically the same as option two is, oh, we had an unexpected expense. Well, that wouldn't be an issue if you had a better income.

>> Right. Exactly. They both kind of, both roads lead to things.

>> You had 100k in savings because you're making 30 grand a month or whatever. You wouldn't have had to put it on a credit card. That makes sense, right? And I, I get, I get the context of that. Okay. So, mind if I dig into that?

>> Go for it.

>> Okay. So, you got f you've added 5K over the last 3 months, uh, to make those expenses and you have a 15K total. Where did the previous 10K come from?

>> Um, the previous 10K in, um, in credit card debt. Yes, sir. Yeah.

>> Yeah. There was just things that we had to buy for the kids and stuff, you know, so and we didn't, and we didn't have the cash on on hand, so we, we used credit.

>> Okay. Over what period of time did it take for you to accumulate that $10,000 in credit card debt?

>> I, I don't, I don't really know. If I had to guess, it would probably be probably over the course of a year.

>> Okay. Is that the year that you were making 7 to 8K a month?

>> Yeah.

>> Interesting.

>> And that's a good example, Jeremy, of where just stopping on the interesting is enough. Like you, you probably don't need to dig any further cuz this is starting to feel uncomfortable for this prospect. That was very finessed. Well done. That was very good.

>> Thank you, sir. Thank you. I, so, cuz there's a part of me that wanted to say, okay, if his, if his monthly expenses were at 6,500 to 7K and he was still racking up credit card debt over that year, like I need to, I kind of need to know. There's a couple of things that are going through my mind here is, is just his like mental model, the financial makeup. I feel like I need to ask more questions on that and dig in on that. What do you feel you are missing as far as things that you need?

>> Well, okay. Was his living expenses the same over that last year as it is now? Did it go up because he made more money? Did it, has it gone down now? You know, is there any particular reason why he wasn't able to, you know, put money into savings, let's say, or instead of living off credit card debt? How much money did he have in savings? You know, like, I, it just, to me it seems, it just seems weird that he would be racking up credit card debt when he was making the best money. You know, he was making more money than he was living on. Then you, then if you're confused and you're also curious about that, you can just ask it with a broad general question, which is, okay, so what I'm curious about, Don, is is there any particular reason that it seems like wherever you've been in terms of your income, you've never been able to cover whatever you need to buy and now he has to paint a broad stroke as far as, well, you know, I've got a gambling addiction or, yeah, I, I make money, but then, you know, I have inconsistency in my income or I have a period of, I have a bunch of periods of time where I'm unemployed. We want to keep this a little bit broader because otherwise we'll be starting to be his financial planner.

>> And we're getting into like, we're actually fixing the problem.

>> Right?

>> What I want to get into as far as broad is, is this the last year and a half or is this beyond that? And right, and by beyond that, what I mean is, is your Mr. Prospect's inability to earn more money than you are spending something that has historically been a consistent error for how long?

>> Yeah. How long has it been? Right.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Because now we're really starting to tilt the pain into ownership, which is he can't really hide away from the fact that yes, he's in pain and he's in a [ __ ] financial situation, but clearly he's not been resolving this for life, for his lifetime.

>> Mhm.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Jeremy, keep going.

>> Okay. So, help me understand this, Don. When you were making 7 to 8K a month, what were your living expenses during that time?

>> I mean, it about the same, really.

>> Okay. I'm just, what I'm, what I'm curious about or or confused about is why were you having to, uh, add more credit card debt over the last year when your income was exceeding your expenses?

>> Well, I mean, we had some kind of some unexpected things come up and so, um, you know, it wasn't budgeted for.

>> Okay. Like what?

>> Like I said, I was just different things like for the kids and stuff like that. So.

>> Okay. And you've also mentioned that you've had, uh, savings that you were tapping into in order to help, uh, to cover the lack of income. How long has that been a, a problem for you to where you're not making enough money to, to be able to pay for your expenses?

>> I mean, really, I think it's, it's really just been the last 3 months.

>> Okay. But it was also happening during the year as well. I think that would potentially happen, potentially on a real prospect because you used the word expenses.

>> And so in his mind, he's not viewing the unexpected random purchases as

>> Recurring expenses. Okay?

>> So you just phrased the question slightly different. You'll capture both things. You could have just said, "So, how long has it been, Don, that the amount of money you've been making has not been able to cover anything and everything that you need to pay for, including those unexpected expenses?"

>> That, that covers that basic.

>> Okay, fair enough. Okay. Okay. And I like how you delivered it really slowly there. That was, that was good. Okay. So, how long has it been that your income has not been enough to cover all of your total expenses?

>> I mean, if you're including the stuff as far as going on, um, the credit cards and stuff. I mean, it's been about the last year, year and a half. Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Would tie that down, Jeremy, and double confirm if that year and a half is accurate.

>> Okay. So, prior to the last, but prior to the last year and year and a half when you started on this offer, were you able to earn enough income to be able to pay for all of the expenses and not have to accrue credit card debt?

>> Very good, Jeremy.

>> Yeah. Well, because, you know, before I got on this offer, my wife was working too. So.

>> Got it. Okay. Got it. So, is your wife not working now?

>> No.

>> Okay. So the, so for the last year and a half, the entire financial burden of being able to provide for your family has been solely carried by you.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. And for the last year and a half, you have not been able to earn enough income to be able to pay to support your family fully without having to take from savings and add accruing credit card $15,000 of credit card debt. Is that correct?

>> Yeah, that, that's accurate.

>> Okay. When you look at that, how does that make you feel?

>> Don't ask the feeling until we lock down. Is there any, is there any way for him to get out of this?

>> What would be the obvious way for him to get out of and I'll summarize his situation?

>> Yeah.

>> So, the issue, Don, is that you're trying to cover a two-person income with one person. Is that accurate?

>> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> So, my question then is, what is the likelihood anytime in the near future that you go back from a one-person income to a two-person income?

>> M.

>> And now if he turns around and says, "Oh, well, that's like 2 years away." Okay, got it. So when you look at the fact that you're trying to cover a two-person income with one person and as a result of that, you've racked up 15k of credit cards debts plus we'll get into here in a minute how much of your savings you've burnt through. And that situation is not going to have another alternative for another two years. How does that make you feel? I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold my how do you feel question until there's no other outs because he doesn't have to face the music of how it feels if in his mind we haven't explored the fact that they could just go back to having two people covering a household income.

>> Yeah. And that's what I was thinking about when I asked the how does that make you feel? I was wondering if that was going to lead him to ask, uh, to say something. Well, you know, we, you know, my wife and I have talked about her going back to work or something.

>> Absolutely. The only problem is you've then burned that question.

>> Yeah, understood.

>> Because it's scriptless, you can ask it five times if you need to.

>> Yeah.

>> But if you ask it later and you've redundantly used it before, it's kind of like tactic shown. They say use that tactic already.

>> Yep. Exactly. A tactic used is a tactic burned. Right.

>> 100%.

>> Okay. All right. So, all right. So I understand here, what's the likelihood that your wife, uh, would go back into working so that you could have two incomes to be able to, you know, to make enough money to cover all of your expenses.

>> Won't land if you don't put a timeline on it, Jeremy.

>> Oh, okay. So that's why you asked the question, what's the likelihood in the near future?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. All right. Got it. All right. So, Don, what's the likelihood in the near future that you would go from a one-person income household to a two-person income household?

>> I mean, at this point, it, it unless something changes, I would say it's actually pretty likely.

>> Pretty likely.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. When you say pretty likely, um, have you had conversations with your wife about the, about the current financial situation?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. And how does, how do you feel about her having to go back to work because you were not able to earn enough income to do, to support the family yourself?

>> Trying to sell.

>> You're trying to get him, you're trying to get him to say I don't want that. And because you've got, because you've got a hoped for outcome, at least for me, that's fairly experienced with this, it's obvious. So don't, don't try and sell. Just, just be curious. Now, two people in the chat, oh, no, sorry, one person in the chat put the obvious next question, which was when.

>> Okay. All right.

>> That, that would have just very easily gathered you some more data. And let's just play out Don's direction so I can show you Jeremy. It really doesn't matter where he goes. Let's say I say to Don, "When?" and Don says, "Oh, in the next four months." Okay, cool. And when you go back to a two-person income, do you have a surplus on a monthly basis when it's two of you making the money? Let's just imagine Don says, "Oh yeah, there's like an extra 10k." Okay, so 4 months from now, you'll be back to a place where you're making 10k more than your expenses. Let's just say over the next four months, the, the additional shortfall that you're going to have to cover, and I'm going to make up the numbers here, guys, is 2500 a month. So, in 4 months, you've, you've had a shortfall of 10K. You're already at 15K. By this point, we would have probably wanted the number in savings that he's already burnt through. But let's.

>> And how much credit card does he have left, uh, to tap into because what if he's getting maxed out?

>> Yes, but I want him to have to tell me that's the problem rather than me lead to that question. Okay, so let's, let's see how this would go. Let's just forget the savings now just to keep the numbers easy. So that would be $25,000. Now, if I'm understanding correctly, Don, 4 months from now, you would have been able to recover that in just 10 weeks. Is that accurate?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So, can you help me understand, I guess, what's the issue now? I've just gathered data and got to a, a point where I'm like, I don't know why we're on the call. In other words, you're going to have to do the work for me, Don. You notice how that's different to kind of trying to get to, oh, I think the reason that he's on the call is cuz he doesn't want to send his wife back to work or whatever. It's like maybe, but you're, you're literally throwing darts at a dart board trying to hit the bullseye with a blindfold on.

>> Yeah.

>> Like you might, but it's pretty unlikely. I'd rather just try and say, I'm just going to walk up to the dart board and just put the dart in the bullseye from like two centimeters away and be like, "Wow, look at me. I hit a bullseye." So, it wasn't that hard. I was just stood in front of the dart board.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, that makes sense.

>> Keep going from there, Jeremy. You can go back to where I started or wherever you want to go from.

>> Okay. All right. So, so it's pretty likely, when, when do you think that she would, um, be able to start working again and start earning income?

>> In this case, because we're using it as a tie down, we don't want to say should. We want to know more planned. If you say when should she go back and he says 3 months, there was like, there was like a fissure or a fra, or a fracture in the definitiveness of what he said. Now, when you're trying to tie something down, you don't want fractures in the definitiveness of it. So you can just say, okay, and when is that planned for?

>> Oh, that's three months from now. Okay, got it. Now he's laid a line down that is my tie down. Does that make sense, Jeremy?

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, uh, when will she go, uh, when will she go back to work then?

>> Can't say will, cuz that's too.

>> Planned.

>> Okay. And when is that?

>> Okay.

>> And, and when is that expected to happen? Like anything that's like more towards it, like unless something crazy happened, this is the D-Day that we've got in mind.

>> Okay. All right. When is that planned for? I mean, we've just kind of started talking about it. So, but it would probably be sometime in the next three to three to six months.

>> Got it. So, I want, I need, I'm clear on the credit card situation. I need to know also the savings. You've had to dip into savings for the last 3 months. How much money do you currently have in savings?

>> Right now, it's about, about 10 grand.

>> Okay. And what was it 3 months ago?

>> 3 months ago it was probably about maybe 13, 14.

>> Okay. So in the last 3 months you've accumulated $5,000 in credit card debt and 3,000 to 4,000 in savings. Let's just say 3,000. Okay. So that's.

>> Personally, just, just for simplicity, I would have done 4K, Jeremy, do you know why?

>> No. No.

>> I was thinking to, I was trying to give them a little bit of credit, you know, to make it look like I'm not trying to be salesy, but.

>> That's always the best method.

>> But on top of that, 5K + 4K is 9. 9 / 3 gives you a nice.

>> Oh, easy, easy math.

>> I would have just said, okay, ballparking the number, that's 9K.

>> Okay.

>> Over 3 months, which is.

>> That's about three, three K a month, right? Okay. So basically over the last 3 months you've, it's been about 3K a month that you've been, you haven't earned enough to cover your expenses. So over the next 3 to 6 months, that would be another 9,000 to 18,000 you would be losing over the next 3 to 6 months. Is that correct?

>> Yes. And then total that on top of what it's already been to give him the biggest.

>> Right. Right. Plus, you've also, you've already lost 9K. So, over the next three to six months, you'll have learn, uh, you'll have lost 18 to 27K. Is that correct?

>> And I just wouldn't phrase it as the word lost.

>> Okay? As we've got higher resolution of what has been lost, you want to replace the word lost for the higher specificity, which is blank credit card debt and blank amount of your savings gone. We want to use credit card debt and savings gone instead of just a generic phrase of the word lost because we're getting higher resolution. Does that make sense, Jeremy?

>> Yeah, I believe so. So, so over the last, uh, 3 months and if your wife has to go back to work over the next 3 to 6 months, you'll have added up to $27,000 of credit card debt and depleted your savings account for that total amount.

>> Nailed it, Jeremy. Good. Are am I on the right track, Don?

>> Yeah, I mean, that, that, I, I guess I just never stopped and added it all up, but yeah, that, that, that sounds right.

>> Okay, let me jump in. I'm curious, Don. What had you added up or thought about that led to being on this call? Now, watch what I'm doing. Pause. I'm going to explain it.

>> When someone says, and I've said this on other trains before, I never thought about it. Sure, guys. They never thought about it with as much resolution as you've just given them. But they didn't just wake up one day and go, "Oh, look. There's a call on my calendar. I'm supposed to talk to this sales training guy." They booked in the call, guys. And so, what I want to do is I want to remove this from this external disassociation of, "Oh, I hadn't really thought about it." Yes, you had, [ __ ] cuz you booked in a call. Now, I'm not going to say it like that, obviously, and I'm not going to explain. Yeah, you probably hadn't thought about it in this high resolution, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but I want to bring Don back to the captain of his ship. You, you had thought something, which is why you booked this call. I'm curious, what had you thought? I don't want Don to abdicate this thinking to me, the closer, because it's not useful for me to be the one holding the power. I want Don to be the one holding the power because then at the end of the call, he's the one that has to make the decision. So, anytime someone says something like, "Oh, I hadn't really thought about it." Okay, interesting. And when you think about it now, how do you feel? Got it. Now, I'm curious, Don. I know you said you hadn't thought about it, but obviously something had come up that you booked in this call. Anything particular that had come up? And I can go back around, but I always want to bring it back to you booked the call. You need to take ownership for what's going on in regards to your actions, which is you turned up to this call and you booked it in. Does that make sense, Jeremy?

>> Absolutely. Y those are those are good takeaways cuz I was thinking a different direction. I was like, okay, I was thinking, yeah. I like how you did that, though. Okay. So, when you, when you think about that now, how does that make you feel?

>> Not good. I mean, it's, it's really why I'm here, you know, because I realize the situation is, you know, the income just is not, it's just not enough.

>> Right? And, and so up to the point when you booked this call, what have you been, what have you been thinking about in terms of if you don't continue to improve your income, what is your financial situation going to look like?

>> That I feel like that question was kind of confusing, Josh, and I was seeing the look on your face, but I, what I was trying to get at was what had he thought about that caused him to book this call?

>> Phrase it like that.

>> Better question. Okay. All right. So, what, uh, you said you hadn't thought about it like that. So, up to the point when you booked this call, what had you been thinking in terms of if you don't do something to make more money to be able to cover your.

>> It's where you're adding, yeah. It's where you're adding all the stuff on the end.

>> I was trying to, I was trying to add the context, which is, you know, what I kind of picked up on earlier. So.

>> Then put the context.

>> First and then ask the question. Yeah.

>> Context, pause. Let the context sink in and then ask your directive, which is a question.

>> Okay. Let me just ask it simply. Up to this point when you booked the call, what had been going through your mind?

>> I mean, obviously I, the first month I recognized that the income wasn't there, but I just thought it was, you know, in sales you have ups and downs. I just thought it was just a down month. Then in the second month, when I realized that the, the, the, the lead flow wasn't really picking up, I knew I had to start thinking about some things, you know, whether I'm going to switch offers or just take on a second job, you know, do Uber part-time or something like that. And then once it got to the third month, then, then I knew for sure that that something, something had to happen.

>> Okay. So, in your opinion, what do you think needs to happen?

>> I would have tied him down on what was the issue. What was, what was the thing about month three?

>> Yeah. And I'm also thinking in my mind, here we are in July and now it's the 11th and now we're on the call now, too. That's another thing I'm thinking. But, but I'm also, okay. So, the thing I'm thinking is like, okay, he's got a couple, you know, escape routes here and, uh, so, okay. So, what was it? Was there something in particular that happened in month three when you realized that something needs to change?

>> Now, I guess it's, it's kind of some of the things that, that we've been talking about, meaning, you know, dig dipping into savings, putting things on credit cards, the income not being enough to cover the expenses. I mean, it's just, it's not sustainable.

>> But my question, Don, is you've been in this situation at least for a year and a half where your income has not sustained your total expenses. So, and it sounds like, cuz I asked you earlier on in this call, was there anything you did during the year when you were making 8K to increase your income? And now we know that your income has never been enough to cover your expenses. I, I really want to understand, has something shifted drastically for you that you are now approaching this with a very different perspective than you have for the last year and a half. Notice, pause before you respond, Don, like I, I'm not playing that game, Don. Like we're turning up the heat or we're getting off the [ __ ] call, right? Like we, we've, we've done enough now. We've been in data gathering for 15 minutes.

>> Probably 15 minutes, right? Yeah, exactly.

>> You're either going to keep going around in circles or I'm going to tie you the [ __ ] down. And notice how my tonality is super chill, super stoic, because I know I'm hammering you. And I'm not hammering you because you're being a bad person. Not hammering you because you've been rationalizing or justifying or lying to me or not answering my questions. I'm hammering you because it's like you need to pick a road now, Don. Which one is it going to be? Okay. So, that's probably what I would have asked at that point. I would have cut him off before he rambles for too long. Let him speak a little bit, then cut him off. And it's okay. Yeah, I understand that, Dom, but if we're being real here, it's been a year and a half that your expenses have, whether it's unexpected or not, have not been met by your income. And during, and notice how I'm putting all the context in, so he can't, he can't argue with it. And during the year when your income didn't increase, you weren't actively doing anything to, to get in front of it, even though you were having these unexpected expenses.

>> Mhm.

>> So you just mentioned on that on month three, something shifted. What exactly shifted on month three?

>> And, and it's not month three. It's month eight.

>> 18. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That's what I was.

>> A year and a half plus 3 months.

>> Now you've decided to shift something.

>> Why?

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz I've put all the context in. He knows like you better give me a good answer.

>> Yeah. Right. Okay. All right. Keep going.

>> All right. Okay. So, help me understand here, Don, because it hasn't just been the last three months. It's been the last year to year and a half that your income hasn't been enough to be able to meet all of your expected and unexpected expenses. And you haven't, you haven't been doing something about it. That's.

>> That's what I was just getting ready to say. Yep. Beautiful.

>> And, and maybe I delivered a little slow, but like, and you haven't done anything to be able to earn more income over the last year and a half. So, I'm curious, what was it specifically at, you know, last month that made you decide that something needs to change now?

>> I mean, I know you mentioned the unexpected expenses. I, it's just like I just never really looked at it that way before, you know? I was always just kind of looking on it on a month-to-month basis and making sure that, you know, I was bringing in enough to, to cover the monthly, the monthly bills. And like I said.

>> What that makes sense. And so what changed that now you are looking at it that way?

>> Thank you.

>> I still need a reason. You can keep telling me I wasn't looking, I wasn't this, I was doing that, blah, blah, blah. Give me the reason.

>> Yeah.

>> No reason, no rhyme. No reason. No change.

>> I like how you cut him off.

>> I'm going to cut him off cuz I'm like, we've done this conversation three times now.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

>> All right. Keep going.

>> So, go ahead and just go with it. So, okay. I, I understand all of that, Don, but why now?

>> Or, yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.

>> Because I see it's just not sustainable. I mean, we would, you know, my wife would have to go back to work and even then, I mean, she doesn't, she wouldn't be making a ton of money. So, I mean, it would help, but it wouldn't, you know, everything wouldn't be rosy. So, when I look at everything, it's like the, to me the, the fastest, quickest way to increase the income is for me to just get more skills. You know what I mean? And, and be able to close at a, at a, at a higher rate.

>> I, I understand that. So what have you, sorry, what.

>> Do you, I, I don't, I don't understand how the sustainability of the last year and a half is any different to the sustainability now.

>> Yeah. I, I, I think.

>> I'm still not crystal clear on that.

>> Okay. I feel like he's. Okay. All right. I'll let you in. This is where most sales people get stuck, guys, cuz they're like, "Oh my god, I've asked this guy three times and he's still not really giving me an answer. I guess I should probably move on before this gets awkward."

>> Yeah. And I feel like.

>> Let it get awkward, guys, because if you're too, if you're more afraid of it getting awkward, you're not going to get paid, right?

>> You're more afraid of sitting there being like, I, sorry, Dom, but I still don't get it. It's the, the sales people that get to this point have two directions to go. Bail, pull the ejector cord and try and go talk about something else, or stay and sit there and handle it and go through the fire. Those are the ones that get paid. These are the inflection points of closer A who gets rich and closer B who stays poor.

>> Okay. So just again, just again say, okay, Don, but I'm, I'm still not clear on why, why now? Why are you not clear?

>> Why, why are you not clear, Jeremy?

>> So I'm, I'm, here's the thing, Don, you've been in this situation for the last 18 months and you've known that.

>> Sorry.

>> Situation.

>> Yeah. Describe the specific of the situation.

>> It sounds like.

>> I'm sorry, Don. Put some in the chat. He wanted to add something. Go for it, Don.

>> So Josh, and this is one of my limitations obviously, cuz sitting here right now, I don't even know what would be a good answer. I've tried to give a couple of good answers to help it go forward. And so that means I don't even know what a good answer is. So right now, I don't even know what to say.

>> Totally fine. So like a good answer would be, there has to be a turning point. And a turning point specifically is, you've mentioned as the prospect that the issue is lack of sustainability.

>> He's had a conversation with his wife about it as well.

>> Yeah, it could be that, but we don't want to assume that. What I, what I want to get Don to explain to me is it's been this position of unsustainability, hence why you've been dipping into credit cards and savings when unexpected bills come up for 18 months. So what has changed? The situation which has always been unsustainable has now been recognized by you to the level that you need to do something about it. Like I want to know what has made the unconscious conscious for you. Because it's not what has changed the situation from sustainable to unsustainable. It's you've never been in a position for the last 18 months, Don, where your income has far superseded your total expenses, whether expected or unexpected bills. But now you're wanting potentially to do something drastic to fix this when for the last 18 months you haven't. And when I've asked you why, you've said because you, you know it's not sustainable. But why now do you know it's not sustainable when for the last 18 months you either didn't have that awareness or you had that awareness but you weren't doing anything about it. So what's changed? And like I'm gonna have to, like, you know, take me by the hand, Don, and I'll walk you through why I'm confused so that you can't be confused why I'm confused.

>> So I thought when I gave the answer of I wasn't really looking at the unexpected expenses in there. I was just looking at the monthly and I realized the first bad month I thought it was just, I just chalked it up to being a bad month. But then as I got to month two and month three of it being slow, that's when I realized, man, I'm not even in a point where I can keep up with the monthly expenses. That's the answer I gave. I thought that's in your mind that's not good enough.

>> Not really. It's not, it's not going to get someone to give you 10 grand. No.

>> Okay. So.

>> People, people will just make up something, but people don't book in sales calls because things are continuing to get worse. People book in sales calls where there's been an anvil drop of the, the bad situation has all of a sudden fallen off a cliff. Like people don't make changes unless there's been an injection of intensity. That's when people make changes.

>> Like the credit cards maxed out or something, or my wife finally, my fi, my wife finally said that, hey, we can't, uh, I'm going to have to go back to work if you don't step up or something. There has to be that pivotal moment where you realize the end of the road, right?

>> Yeah. Like most likely in this case, it would be something to do with the wife, or it would be something to do the credit card, or it would be something to do with an external factor like you've got a child. Okay, let me explain those three examples. Most likely one, if it was a credit card, would be that you've been racking up credit cards and you went to get the next credit card and you got declined. So now you're like, "Oh [ __ ] I can't I.

"can't get another credit card." That's one option. The wife would be something like you had an unexpected conversation with your wife, which you had been completely oblivious was going on in her mind, that she's now brought to your conscience, something like, "Hey Don, you know, I, I, I really wanted to go on holiday for to blank blank blank, and the money that we'd been putting aside to do that was the savings. Have we got enough in the savings to still do that holiday?" And you turn around to your wife and you're like, "Well, no." And she's had this really pissed-off face. And it was the face looking at you and you're like, "Oh [ __ ] my wife's actually pissed off." That was the turning point.

Or a third one would be your child turned around and said something like, "Dad, I want to go to Disney." And you're like, "Well, we can't [ __ ] go to Disney 'cause we don't have the money." Maybe you said that to the child. Maybe you didn't say it to the child. The point is, there's got to be one of these inflection points.

"You just going 18 months with not taking it seriously to make sure you're crushing it financially. That doesn't change anything. It doesn't."

I'll give you an example. He's in the chat here. I won't name the name, although people might know. One of the members of the mastermind had been considering joining the mastermind for a relative period of time. And they were just considering, considering, considering. You know, they wanted to do it, you know, they needed to do it, but didn't pull the trigger. And the turning point was they bumped into me in person and then like, "Oh, okay, well, yeah, maybe I should have a conversation about this," and there was a change point. There has to be something different that comes into your life, otherwise you'll keep doing the same things, and that is just human psychology. People don't just, you know, people say the straw that broke the camel's back. It's not that there was one piece of straw that all of a sudden, you know, broke the camel's back. It's that that one piece of straw was a tipping point. It went from not being affecting the camel to affecting the camel. This lack of sustainability was not affecting you to it started affecting you. Why? What happened? What changed? You have to give me an answer.

And the prospect could be like, "Why do I have to give you an answer?" And if you want to break the fourth wall and explain it to them, feel free. Now, don't just tell them, because anything you say goes in one ear and goes out the other. So, you would do it like this. Prospect says, "I, I feel like you've asked me the same question three times and I don't understand why you keep asking me the same question." "Totally understand. In your opinion, why do you think I keep asking you for a reason that, given that 18 months have gone by and you've not done anything about this, that now you're going to do something about it?" Put it back on them. "Well, I don't really know." "Well, if you think about it, why do you think that matters?" "Well, I guess, um, if it's been 18 months and I haven't done something about it, I guess I need a reason." "Why do you think you need a reason?" "Well..." And now they're going to have to start explaining themselves through the question that you're asking them about. Because people know this. It's not, it's not rocket science. Anybody with a few brain cells knows if something's been going consistently and it starts changing direction. Why was this motivator actually the real thing that was enough for you to change direction? So sometimes you just have to explain it to the prospect, which is totally fine. Does that make sense?"

"Understood."

"Yep."

"Josh, where I'm at, I've got a sales call that's fixing to happen here in a little bit. I got two back-to-backs."

"How long have you got?"

"A maximum of 15 minutes, but I was hoping to wrap up in the next five minutes or so."

"Perfect. We'll do five more minutes."

"Get some to eat."

"Absolutely. We'll do five minutes and then, uh, we'll wrap up."

"Okay, back to the, uh, previous question. Don, I'm trying to, even mentally, it's hard to start and stop like this."

"So, basically, it was the summation of over the last 18 months, uh, you've haven't been able to earn enough income to be able to not only pay your monthly expenses, expected and unexpected, but to be able to put money away, uh, for savings to increase your family. You've been supporting your family by yourself by having to dip into savings you've had and had to add up $15,000 of credit card debt. And, you know, it's been that way for a year and a half. Was there a pivotal moment that happened when you said in this third month, you realized that it can't go on like this?"

"Well, I mean, I was, I was looking at the, over the finances and and seeing that over the last three months, I just wasn't able to actually. It was in the second month when I realized it was starting to really get slow with the leads. And so, I applied for another credit card to, um, you know, 'cause I, I could see we were going to need it and I was, I was declined. And so, I realized that, um, that puts me, put us in a really, really bad spot."

"Okay. With you not getting approved for that other credit card and it putting you in a really bad spot. What do you mean exactly by that?"

"Well, just financially. I mean, my wife would definitely have to go back to work and I already know 'cause we've talked about it. I already know that she's really not even happy about that at all."

"Understood. And so, given that when you started looking at the finances and then you went to apply for another credit card, which you thought, 'No worries, I'll just get another credit card,' when that declined word popped up on your screen, how did you feel?"

"It was like a punch in the gut. I mean, it's kind of like, you know, you're you're out there drowning and and and and you're reach the lifeguard has a pole and you're reaching for it and you, you can't grab it. You know, I, it just, yeah. I, I don't, I don't, I don't even know how else to describe it. It was just, it was, it was really bad."

"Okay. And you described that as being drowning and you went to get the outside help that you needed and basically you were rejected."

"Do you still feel like you're drowning now then, if you haven't been able to get that lifeline?"

"Oh, I mean, absolutely. When you say drowning, what, what is that day-to-day for you?"

"I mean, it's just like this pressure, um, constant pressure of I have to find a way to to get more money. One of those ways again is my wife going to work, but then that comes with added pressure of her being pissed off at me that she's got to go back to work. And then I'm sure how that's going to affect the kids. They're not going to be happy that, you know, mommy's not around as much. Um, so, I mean, it's just, it's like a snowball effect."

"Is that pressure, is that bubbling over in any way?"

"You mean how I treat my family? I mean, I, I don't, I think I try to protect them from it, but it, it wears on me. I mean, it's something I think about 24 hours a day."

"How is it wearing on you right now? Is there maybe one, two, or three specific wares that you're feeling?"

"I mean, just, just mentally, man. It's just, it's like I said, it's on my mind all the time. And I know it affects my sales calls. You know, we always talk about, you know, not having commission breath and stuff like that, but you know, when, when, when you get in that state of mind where where you're just focused on, you know, your own income, that's, that's never good for sales calls, you know. So, I try to, to have it not affect me, but part of me feels like it, it definitely does."

"And then you mentioned something very interesting, which was you, you want to ensure that you protect your wife and your kid from this, uh, pressure bubbling over. What?"

"Absolutely."

"Protect them from what? Like, you obviously know yourself, you don't have to tell me any details, but do you feel like this is going to bubble over in a way that you might not be able to protect your family from if you don't get it resolved?"

"I mean, when it comes to my family, I'm certainly not a violent man, but I mean, it's just, you know, it's just like a powder keg, you know? It's just, it's just I, I do feel myself and and again, I know I'm very conscious about the way I treat them. But I, I feel just, just like little things bothering me that normally wouldn't bother me, you know, you know, my son leaves his toys out or just, you know, it's like I got a shorter fuse. But like I said, I, I, I do everything I can to stay on top of it, but I, I can, I can feel it. And with with that shorter fuse, you know, it sounds, sounds like with all respect, that it's, it's a ticking time bomb for you and your family."

"It, it feels that way. Yeah."

"Are you willing to keep your family around a dangerous explosive any longer?"

"No. No."

"How long do you think the fuse is? If nothing changes, pause before you speak."

"On. Notice what I'm doing, guys. Lucas said, 'How much longer?' I'm not saying, 'How much longer?' I'm saying, 'How long is the fuse?' I'm using his language, which is his imagery in the context of the question, 'how much longer?' Much more powerful. All right, keep going, Don. Jeremy, do you need to bounce?"

"I will. Yeah. Yes."

"Awesome. I'll keep going with Don. I'll see you later."

"Thank you, sir. Appreciate you."

"Great job, Jeremy."

"Thanks, Don. Appreciate you. Thank you."

"All right, let's keep going, Don."

"Yeah, I, I, I can't say a specific length or anything, but it, it, it feels like it's getting shorter by the day."

"Okay. How short do you think it is right now? If you were to ballpark it, do you think you can hold this together and protect your family from the inevitable for another six months, another year?"

"No. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I mean, I, I feel like it's probably like 30 days."

"Okay. Sounds pretty dangerous. It feels dangerous."

"Okay. So then my, my final question to you, Don, is let's shift gears here a little bit. Is what do you think has caused, in your mind, your family to now be in this dangerous place where they are around a bomb and they have 30 days left on the fuse?"

"It's my, the fact that I'm just not making enough money."

"Okay. Absolutely. And what do you think has caused you to not be making enough money that has now put your family in this position?"

"I guess I would say, you know, I think about it now. I mean, I, I should have been making a call like this probably six months ago. I mean, just not being proactive enough and taking the initiative to to change the situation before it came to this kind of breaking point."

"Are you willing to keep your family, whether it's today with this bomb or another bomb in the future or another bomb in a different context, are you willing to keep threatening the well-being of the people you love due to your lack of initiative in the future?"

"No. I, I want to, I want to, I want to be able to fix it."

"Why?"

"Because, because I love them. Because I care about them. Because they deserve, they deserve more, better than this."

"And what's different now that you feel your family deserve more in regards to your initiative and your proactiveness than 18 months ago where you were still not being proactive? What, what has shifted in your values, your beliefs, your mindset as to why now's different?"

"I don't know. I just look back and I, I feel like I had my head in the sand. Like I did, like I wasn't aware of what the actual situation was."

"And when you think about the fact that you putting your head in the sand and being unaware, consciously choosing to be unaware has now put your family in this position. How does that make you feel about yourself?"

"Like [ __ ] I mean, I'm supposed to be the one that's protecting them from these things, and now I'm the one endangering them. I'm the cause of these things."

"Are you at the point where you're no longer be no longer willing to be the person endangering your family and actually shift into the proactive man, the man who takes initiative that is actually protecting your family?"

"Absolutely."

"When?"

"As soon as possible. Next week, next month, next year. When is that?"

"Well, I mean, depending on what you got to show me today. I mean, and assuming I can, you know, swing it financially. I mean, today."

"Let's just say that what we go through later on is not really aligned with what you're looking for. What are you going to do then?"

"I have no idea, but I have to do something."

"Okay. So, you don't know what you'll do, which is understandable, but are you telling me that whatever it is, you're not going to let another day go by that you're not proactively with initiative moving forward on solving this problem?"

"Exactly."

"Okay. The reason I asked that is because sure, I'd love you to become one of our next success stories. You sound like a great guy, but it doesn't really change my life or make a difference to me whether you enroll with our program or not. With all due respect, what I care about is that you are not going to go another day, not enrolling into something that is going to be proactive and taking initiative to increase your ability to make money as a salesperson. And so long as you're telling me that you commit to that, that's the right mindset and the right commitment level of someone that we would like to bring into this program. Does that make sense?"

"It does."

"Why does that make sense to you?"

"Because I mean based on what we've talked about today, I mean a change has to be made and like you said, I mean if, if this isn't the right fit, well then obviously fit's very important, but something has to happen regardless. So, I got to find something that's the right fit as, as soon as that, as soon as possible."

"All right. Well, the only thing left to do is to see if one of our competitors is the best fit for you or whether it's us. So, if you want to go through what we got going on A through to Z, I'll take you through all the details and then by the end of this call, you're either going to decide this is it. I'm going to take action on this right now or I'm gonna hop off this call and I'm going to go straight on to Google and start booking in a call with someone else because as you said, you need to do something about this right now. Does that make sense?"

"Exactly."

"Okay. Do you want me to take you through what we've got going on?"

"Please."

"Okay, cool. Put in the chat if you're like, 'Oh, I know Josh is going to basically sell the competitors.' I want to start with comments on what I just did at the end. The end. And the reason I'm focusing on that is because I had no idea I was going to do that."

"Right at the end, it just showed like such care for the prospect that it just makes that level of trust and that like connection with him so strong that he just has no choice but to really get to that next level with you. It's just, it's such a strong connection. He's going to remember this conversation forever."

"100%. And the thing is, let's just say at the end of the call that he does think that what we do is the best service for him because I was willing to say, 'I really, you know, with all respect, I'd love you to be a client, but it doesn't change my life. Whether you become a client for us or a client for someone else, what does change my life is knowing that you've made a decision.' The likelihood that when it comes to making a decision that he chooses us is much higher simply because I am detached. I, I really don't mind. And it's genuine, guys. I'm like, you know, if our program is actually the best fit, he'll join it. If it wasn't the best fit, then I hope he doesn't join it 'cause I don't want a prospect to join our program if it's a worse fit for him or he genuinely doesn't feel aligned. I, I, I think of the big picture, the spiritual laws of sales, which is fine, I might lose this one prospect and tomorrow all of my calls will turn up and they'll all be [ __ ] piffs. That will be what will happen because I just believe in good things happen to good people. It was like my mind went to, 'Well, you haven't done anything. You won't know if something will work for you until you try, right?' Was kind of the thing I thought of, but the way you did it was even more unattached than that because like, I'm sure people probably heard that before, like it sounds like a word track almost. 'You don't know till you do it, right? How would you know it'll work, right? Us versus someone else?' But it's like, I don't care what you do, you just emphasize the hell out of like, 'You're going to do something for yourself today. We're not going to dilly-dally and wait like you've, you've been like that.' And I think like even if it wasn't the best thing for him or he didn't even feel like it was the best option, he'd still go with it just because he was like, 'This, I have no reason to not trust this guy.'"

"Exactly. It's like imagine the thought process of, 'Well, how am I going to know what's the best one for me? Is it a program I've not been in or another program that I've not been in?' Well, I don't have any data on that until I'm in the program. What data do I have? Well, I have data on the fact that this person, this salesperson is basically just saying, 'I want you to make a decision whether you work with us or not.' That's good data. I'll take that data and extrapolate that to my assumption of the delivery of the program, the fulfillment of the program. I'll use that as my crystal ball. And the other thing is like, just basic human psychology. The person that doesn't care to sell my program is the best. You need to join my program. Usually is the one that knows our program is the best program. Hence why I don't need to tell you it's the best program. And if you want to go join our competitor, that's totally fine, too. I, I don't care because I'm so confident and certain that our program is the best."

"All right, final takeaways from Don."

"I've heard it said before on other role plays I've seen, and it's so true. I mean, even though I'm playing a fictitious prospect, it still got to, it got emotional. It, it got to, you know, got to feelings about things. So that, that was even though I'd seen it from other people, it was it was really still unexpected like, no, I mean, you know, I didn't, I didn't think that could really happen. So, scriptless sales, internal mastery, being able to actually go deeper with your prospects, being able to hold them accountable, being able to challenge them, being able to make them do the work. These are all the things that you're missing in your sales calls that are keeping you at your current income level. But the question is, just like a prospect has to do, are you willing to admit? Are you willing to look in the mirror and be honest with yourself that you're making the money that you're supposed to be making based on how much work you're putting in, based on how you're showing up, based on not having the mentor that can teach you these things and working directly with them? Are you willing to admit it to yourself that you're making exactly the amount of money that you're supposed to be making? And then do you want to change it? And if you do want to change it, click the link below this video and go to the website unicorncloer.com and enroll into the unicorncloer mastermind. Actually show up differently and actually get the mentor that will teach you all of these things that are missing in your sales calls so that you can start earning the money that you truly want to be earning. And I'll see you on the inside of one of these trainings where you can actually participate. That is what it takes to make more money in sales. I'll see some of you on the."