Transcription
All right listeners to this podcast know by now that in addition to awesome real estate agents throughout America, those who are really achieving a lot of success in their careers, I also love to bring folks onto this podcast who are what I would say real estate adjacent, so doing work in the real estate industry, um, and in their own sort of niche. So today, I'm really excited to to welcome the founders of Salt and Pine Home in Rhode Island, Amy Key and Kristen Brown. Amy and Kristen, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you. I've been looking forward to this for a few reasons because I think that there's so much value that a company like yours can bring to a real estate professional or or homeowners who are seeking to list their home. I think it's such an important process in the marketing of a home. So I'm looking forward to kind of diving into more about what you guys do. But before we do that, um, I always love to get a little bit of a background on my my guests. So if you could share a little bit about, you know, your career, what where you're from, what you were doing specifically, what you were doing before you founded Salt and Pine, and what the inspiration behind that was. Um, whoever would like to go first, I'll let you start.
So I think, um, Salt and Pine's been around for about six years now. Prior to that, um, I am actually a nurse practitioner, and my sister, um, was in education, um, for over 15, 18 years, almost 20 years. And I think we were both feeling burnt out and not satisfied in our careers. We'd always wanted to work together. And we, um, similar time frames, sold our first houses and actually were building new houses. And we actually staged our homes when they were for sale, without really knowing it. We loved that whole process of sort of like decluttering and, you know, getting it all ready for people to come through for showings. And we just enjoyed that. And I think one day, in my real frustration with my career in the medical field and wanting to get out, and I said something, I feel like popped up when I was searching around about home staging, and I just said to Amy one day, I said, "I think we should do this." And she said, "Okay." And we never looked back.
You were both ready, right? Ready for a change and to kind of launch your own concept and go into business together. I love that. Almost 20 years in education, that would be enough to burn somebody out. You know, that's understandable. I have so much admiration for educators and, and really, um, I feel like that's one of those professions where, I don't know, I think, you know, you get to 20, it's sort of like, it's good time to maybe change careers after about, you know, when you get close to that 20 years. I think it's, it's you've served your time. Yes.
Well, so you got, were kind of inspired by the process of staging and decluttering your own homes and getting them ready to be listed. And then you started, I would imagine you did some research into the market, the industry, and, and how did, what did that look like in the beginning stages?
So we found, we both really like learning. Obviously, I was an educator, and there's amazing courses out there that you can take to become certified as a professional stager. And so we researched some of those, and we actually spent a few months doing online coursework and learning and getting our certification while we were sort of like dipping our toes into this world of home staging. We started doing all of these things on, like, nights and weekends while we were still working our other jobs.
Yeah, burning the candle at both ends. That's, that's actually a good. That's the best way to start, though, I think. I firmly believe if you're going to start your own enterprise, your own brand and concept, you know, unless you're purchasing a concept or a franchise, I think that is the best way to get started is to kind of, you know, stick with your, your full-time while you kind of build that runway on the side. Yeah.
We both have families, and so, you know, we needed to still be having our income while we were growing this business. And we thought that we would start out and just always do sort of like occupied homes, working with what homeowners have in their homes. But our first job ended up being a vacant house. And so we ended up purchasing inventory. And so we started out storing it in our basement. Our husbands would help us, and they would move for us on nights and weekends. And we purposely grew slowly.
Yeah, that makes sense. That's really smart, too. How long did that process of sort of building the runway for Salt and Pine take between the time that you two put your heads together and decided, "Yeah, that we're going to do this," and the time that that the business fully launched, would you say? How long did that process take?
So I think it's a little muddy because we also didn't know what we were doing. So I would definitely say the first six months were us doing our courses, 'cause we believed certification was really important for our credibility. Um, and I think coming from medicine and education, we firmly believe that you should have a background in what you're doing. But we also were learning how to open a business. It's not something that was strong courses in the medical field or the education field. So I think the first six months were really getting our training and opening the business. And it was probably seven or eight months we got our first job. And like Amy had said, I think we originally thought we'd be doing what we did when we sold our houses, just reworking homeowners' homes. And the need in Rhode Island was obviously for vacant staging, 'cause those were the calls that were coming. So we kind of had to look at each other and say, "Are we going to do this?"
Yeah, yeah. So we said, "Okay." And we started buying furniture and just putting it in our basement. And every job, just slowly building. Was it two years when we got our first warehouse? I think it was about two and a half years in when we actually then got a warehouse space. Both basements were full, and we said, and I think our husbands had had enough. Yikes. And we were like, "Okay, time to move on." And we were still, we were slowly cutting back our hours in our careers. So we were no longer full-time in education and medicine. We were both working part-time then, and part-time with our company. And then we had a small warehouse. It was like 1300 square feet that we moved into, which felt huge and like a big step for us. Um, and it was great. Our overhead cost was low. It was great. We had an amazing landlord. We were really able to grow. We were there two years, and then we realized we really needed to make a change. I was full-time in the business by then. Kristen was like, almost full-time. And we went to a 4,000 square foot warehouse, which is what we have now. And now we're both just about six years in, full-time.
Awesome. Are you loving it?
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Come to work every day and can't believe this is what we get to do. Yeah.
It's very rewarding, isn't it? I mean, obviously, and you touched on it too, how much work there is behind the scenes as well, mainly with the operational side of the business. It's completely separate from the craft, right? From the technical side. So, yeah. But well, congratulations. I mean, that's awesome. I, I kind of know what that feels like to be able to stand a business up on your own and do what you love. So it's, uh, yeah, it's an amazing feeling. And congratulations on that. A 4,000 square foot warehouse, that's, that's pretty big. And, you know, in the beginning, when you realize that your calls, most of your business, early business was staging vacant homes, you know, purchasing that inventory is a big risk, right? I mean, that's a, you know, you're not, uh, it's a good way to not be profitable for the first few months, right?
Yes, yes. And that's like a learning curve, too, figuring out, you know, making sure you're covering all of your costs. And when you're shopping for inventory, that was a learning curve, like, don't buy inventory specific for one property. You really need to think about your big pieces of furniture and make sure that they will transition into, you know, a variety of different properties, because your furniture is how you make money. Yeah.
Yeah. And do you turn over the furniture quite often? Do you have to stay up with certain trends, or are you able to invest in pieces that are, you know, fairly timeless? Is that, do you kind of lean that way?
Yes. I think it took us a little time to actually figure out what our business was going to be or look like. And we've really, over these six years, evolved into a brand, not just a home staging company, but we're really building Salt and Pine, this brand, um, with our look and our aesthetic that we do with every home. And that has really enabled us to purchase furniture smarter. So we really buy our big pieces that are timeless, transitional, neutral pieces that can fit lots of different styles. And we prefer to bring in trends with smaller pieces, you know, whether it's an accent chair, pillows, we can change up rugs pretty easily, things like that. But keep the big, expensive items. We want to be able to use those over and over again.
That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And when it comes to brand, I feel like a client could walk into a home that was staged by Salt and Pine and kind of know right away, "This is a Salt and Pine home." Yeah. And that's like the biggest compliment. And that's what we hear all the time. Like, you know, we'll be talking with an agent, and they're like, "We just walked through a home. We know you guys were there. It's definitely Salt and Pine." And that's why agents call us and partner with us, because of our brand and because how that supports their brand.
I love that. I, I think that that's so important. You know, brand is really worth underscoring the the importance of, uh, you know, brand identification and, and knowing, you know, being able to differentiate your brand from others as well. Have a friend here locally who owns a florist, or she's a florist, is a floral design studio, really. It's a, a real premium shop. And she's been in business for about 12 years. And it's so funny because here in the office, occasionally, some of her, uh, some of her arrangements will get delivered to the office for, you know, one of my colleagues or their clients. And, and right away, someone will walk by and go, "Is that a Blooming Garden? Is that a?" They know right away. Like, "That looks like a Blooming Garden." So I think it's just something that really hits home for me how important that is to really be able to to build a brand along with, you know, the services, uh, that you provide as well.
It's also like our best marketing tool, right? Because we have this strong brand, we get calls for jobs because our brand is so strong. So the early work was so why is, why would, uh, most of the work, at least early on, be vacant homes? Are they, um, are these places where they knew construction, or were they places that were, they second homes primarily?
Feel like our initial few vacants were actually homes that homeowners had already found their next home, but they were maybe, we had a lot of developments probably go up in the '90s in Rhode Island. And so, you know, they were either downsizing, their kids were grown, or they were just moving somewhere else. And so it was staging to get those large '95 homes sold. So I feel like those were our first few stages here. And then we started getting in with more developers and new construction and things like that. And I think in Rhode Island, I mean, we may be a little behind the times in Rhode Island, a little bit, but I think that's what everybody thought staging was, that it was just for, you know, empty homes. I think occupied staging and pre-listing consultations and things like, we've done some educating about that and how we can stage using homeowners' pieces, not just do empty homes.
Yeah, I think that you, you bring up a really good point there where there's a lot that goes into staging an already furnished home. I've had a, um, guest on the podcast who owns an organizing company. She's in Atlanta and Charlotte, and Kenzie. I think a lot of their work kind of overlaps because a lot of her, you know, she's a professional organizing company, but a lot of their work is get helping homeowners stage their homes, right? Get their homes ready to sell. Maybe not so much staging, but getting it ready to sell. And I think that there's probably a lot of overlap with what you guys do too, when it comes to a, a furnished home. And I think we, we run into a lot of agents who feel like they can handle it in an occupied home. And I'm not saying they can't. I think it's just, we're working on the added value that we bring as a professional stager. We may have an eye for things that they may not have realized. And how being a part of their team actually can take some of the pressure off on their relationship with the homeowner. Yes, because we can almost be the firm voice, the bad guy who says, "This is what you need to do."
Yeah, absolutely. I'm a firm believer in staying in one's lane, right? So I, I focus mostly in my real estate business in the marketing side, and I have partners locally who take care of the contracts and the negotiation and, and that sort of thing. So I'm a firm believer that. And I also believe that to scale your business, you can't do it all yourself. So you really need to outsource and delegate tasks like interior design, or staging a home, or, um, you know, home repairs. I mean, anything like that, I think it really needs to be delegated and outsourced that way, too. You bring up a good point that the broker can maintain, uh, a different relationship, a more personal, you know, their relationship with the client. And they, they can let, you know, outside companies like yourself that they outsource this work to, you know, if there is a challenge that needs to be addressed, it doesn't fall on the agent, right? So, yeah, that makes sense. I like that. But I, I definitely firmly believe to grow and scale a business, you really have to kind of stay in your lane. So that's why I love bringing on, uh, businesses like yours who are in the real estate industry and really do work that supports and helps an agent and the homeowners, but specifically agents do their job.
Well, let's give a quick overview. We've touched on quite a bit already about the services that you guys provide, but what does Salt and Pine, what are the, the range of services that Salt and Pine provides for your clients?
So we, um, we're a boutique company, which means we're, we're pretty small. We do primarily vacant stages. We stage a variety of price points. We do luxury stages as well as more everyday stages, but we really pride ourselves that we bring a luxury feel to every stage that we do, no matter the price point. So we do full-service vacant staging, which means we create a custom design plan for every property, um, and then we go install the stage and then stage all of that. And then we also offer pre-listing consultations. So that's what we do with occupied homes. So we'll go in and spend up to two hours with the homeowner, going through their house from front door, from your first impression, all the way through. And we'll give them resources and even furniture arranging suggestions and how to do vignettes in certain places to appeal to buyers. And we can help them with some new lighting suggestions or a few minimal things to to purchase if they need new bedding, you know, some white covers, make it feel a little more updated and neutral.
Mhm. Yeah. Do you, uh, so have you also had to purchase like a, a moving van?
So we partner, actually, with another small business who they have a truck and two guys that they'll send and work with us. And it's actually a local, they're actually a junk removal company. Mhm. So we actually piggyback on a lot of jobs together. We'll give their information to the agent, they'll go do a cleanout on the house, and then we'll come in and stage it. So it's actually worked really nicely. Our companies have kind of grown together. And it takes the burden of us having to own and maintain a truck and have employees because it's just the two of us. And so it's worked really well. Absolutely. It's a brother-sister team who own that small business. And it's just, it's been really, I think, beneficial to both our companies. We've been able to grow together. I mean, they're trained, they have keys to our warehouse, they know, you know, everything. They can even go if we need them to de-stage without us.
Perfect. Yeah, that's smart. I love that. That's very smart. And again, goes back to that idea of efficiently scaling a business and how do you do it without doing all the things yourself? So, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. What have been, um, what have been some successful ways that you guys have been able to market your business? You mentioned your brand and the aesthetic is really great. Your social media is awesome. That's how we connected. Just wondered how, you know, what are some, selfishly, I would like to know, but also I think listeners might also appreciate knowing, uh, maybe some ways that have been worthwhile for you to market your business.
I think that was a big learning curve for us, too. Um, I think our biggest success has been Instagram. I think it's actually made for people in industries like ours that are very, um, visual. Visual. And we worked really hard at Instagram. I think in the beginning, again, we didn't know what we were doing. And we, we actually went in person to a lot of offices. You don't get very far doing that. You say hi to the person at the front desk, and then that's about it. So we kind of spent a lot of time doing that and learned this is not really getting much for us. And I think it was just getting our product out there is what really worked. And Amy did, I think it was a free class we found online for Instagram and how to be successful on it. And we just really focused on that and evolved it over time, kind of figured out following agents in our area and who was successful and just trying to get our feed in front of them. And it was the platform where we found agents that seemed like-minded like us. And the agents that we would want to partner with, they seem to be on Instagram developing the same kind of content that we were trying to do as well. So it just sort of was like a natural evolution. And the majority of our jobs come from Instagram. Like, it's how agents find us. I mean, now it's a lot of referrals and word of mouth, but Instagram is probably our biggest platform. And we really treat it as our portfolio. We were talking about this before with other people, and I consider Reels like that's the closet where you shove all the stuff you like, you know, don't want out in the open. Like that's where I put like all the behind the scenes and stuff like that. But we keep our feed like portfolio. It's our portfolio. Um, and we spent a lot of time, especially in the beginning, building out our content and having a consistent plan for what was going in our feed. And I think it just really helped us like hone our brand, too. Everything is like our brand colors, everything is that like clean, modern, organic, um, aesthetic that we've sort of grown Salt and Pine into.
I love that. You, you know, we kind of circled back to the importance of brand again and how you developed an Instagram account and a feed that's very on brand and intentionally from the beginning, which I think is really smart. And it, another, another thing to do when building that runway for your business is to take some time to kind of plan what your social media is going to look like. And staying on brand is, is, can be time-consuming and challenging, but it's so worth it. Yeah. And you're in a visual industry, so it makes sense that you would leverage Instagram so well.
And it really worked. We really don't do paid advertising, so it's really helped. And I think just making sure everything's consistent. So when they hit through to our website from Instagram, that that also feels very Salt and Pine, very on brand, and keeping everything very consistent as they travel through and try to find more about our company. Yeah.
I love it. So repeat and referral, obviously, you've built some relationships over the years with brokers in your area who you sort of identified as people you wanted to work with. I think that that's also so important to to really focus on, you know, working with, targeting a certain, you know, a business partner avatar, or referral partner avatar, or client avatar, and really intentionally marketing for their business, I think is very, very, instead of taking that scattergun approach and, you know, just making yourself available for everyone. You really want to kind of stay in your lane again and serve your ideal client. I love that. I think that's a really excellent point and worth underscoring as well.
We also really wanted to do, 'cause I, I sort of mentioned that we're boutique, so we only do so many jobs a month. And we really wanted to create like a demand for our services because we only take so many jobs a month. So we have agents who will wait for us, and we have agents who will call, like, as soon as they can. We're often booked, like, at least a month out, um, before you can get on our calendar. And I think that's another thing that helps the growth and the success of our company because we don't stage every property, and we can't.
Yeah, it is a little more like exclusive, like boutique, like. Yeah. Absolutely. That was the word that was coming to mind. That exclusivity of kind of it has a way of increasing demand. And I love that. I, I love that very much that, you know, you limit the number of clients that you can work with at at a time because you are a boutique business, but I think it helps really kind of raise that value as well. So I love that. Um, a couple things I wanted to ask you about before I let you go. Maybe some, speaking of marketing, I love content marketing where we're sharing our expertise and tips on how to do the kind of work that we do. And I wondered if maybe there are some DIY tips or best practices that you could share with real estate agents who are listening to this podcast and might be, you know, uh, thinking about tackling some small parts of the staging process themselves. What would be some tips you would offer?
I mean, decluttering is always the one. I think everyone is just going to say, "Declutter and remove personal items." Is that a good place to start?
Decluttering. They have to pack anyways to move, so it's a pretty easy, um, place to start because it's a task that has to be accomplished anyways. Yeah. And having as much space in the property, like you want to really think about potential buyers being able to, you know, walk through in the flow that they'll go through as they progress throughout the home. You want to make sure that there's space in there for them to like, breathe and be like, "Okay, I can really see, you know, the property and not the stuff."
Your consulting services, I, I want to circle back to that real quick. I meant to ask you when you were, you were talking about your, uh, your listing consults. Um, are those, that's basically where you provide advice and guidance for a client on how to stage their home or declutter, but then it's put on them to follow your instructions and that sort of thing? The reason I, I bring that up is I wonder if that's got to be a very, um, you know, how many of those clients end up hiring you to to do the work for them actually?
They really don't. I think we really try to leave them with a list that feels doable. Yeah. And we do give them access to us when we leave for some follow-up. And we'll have people texting us pictures, "Is this, is this what you meant? Or does this look right?" Or, um, "I don't think I could do all of this. What should I prioritize?" So we do give them communication with us after. But we have a whole booklet we provide. Mhm. That gives everything from what to do in your closets. We have places where we actually draw furniture layout plans when we're in there with them. And we'll do even sample, "This is what you should have on your kitchen island." And we'll go through their cabinets with them and pull out, you know, the couple of things they should have on their kitchen island to make it look styled, but clean and appealing. And when we're with our clients, we, I think it comes from our backgrounds, but selling your home is emotional. And we really spend time. We listen to their stories. We acknowledge all of the things in their home that is special to them. And we also try to really get a read on what they have capacity for. And we prioritize when we're with them to make sure that we're not, you know, overwhelming them. And that we're really prioritizing the things that they're going to get the biggest ROI on. So the consultations are pretty successful. And, um, fulfilling that need that that clients have to understand what they need to do to get their homes listed.
I wonder if, you know, I'm always thinking from a digital marketing perspective. Have you thought about producing like a, a paid webinar, or like a sort of a, a video and ebook like tutorial, like an online course? That I don't want to say course, but like that can package that consult into a, a downloadable and pretty repeatable, you know, something that folks outside of Rhode Island could participate in?
That's an interesting idea. I don't know that we have thought about it actually geared towards homeowners. We've considered doing some courses for stagers who are looking, um, for our expertise and how we've done some of the things we've been successful in. But for homeowners, that's interesting. We both love teaching and creating, um, like an online course. Part of Salt and Pine Home is something that is sort of in our future plan. So thanks, that's a great idea.
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I love that you actually brought up a good point and I meant to mention that earlier too, that because of your learnings and not only the design, uh, and and the technical process of staging a home, but also the business side of it all, the operational side, you've, you've had to go through that process the hard way and, uh, a lot of ways probably taught yourself and learned a lot along the way. I feel like that's another, to your point, that's an amazing idea to be able to package that knowledge into something that, uh, somewhere you could offer, you know, sort of an online format for folks who might be thinking about starting their own staging business in their market.
I think when people are starting out, like everyone feels like they have to be these huge staging companies with this like 20,000 square foot warehouse to be successful. And we're really trying to share, you can be a boutique company and be successful. And, you know, you really can make a good living as a boutique company. And these are the things that we have put into place to make that happen.
I love that. Yeah, I could, we could talk a lot more about that because I, the idea, I always have ideas about that. I think that that's such a a smart way for a small business to scale up without having to, you know, bring on additional staff. You know, it's, it's kind of a way to make a two, two-person business a lot bigger than two people. It sounds like you were in our team meeting we just had. Great minds think alike, I guess.
Well, I look forward to following up with you and learning about the progress on that as well. Well, and, and would love to follow that. That that'll be exciting to watch. Decluttering is a great place to start. Um, where, where would be, what, what's the most common thing that, the most common challenge that you find when staging in an existing, a place that's already furnished?
So I think it's really probably just trying to make things feel fresh and neutral. And neutral. Yeah. So that sometimes people love their drapes that they spent a lot of money on, you know, and they might not appeal to every buyer. And so I think things like that. And it's hard for people to separate themselves emotionally from their home. This is the home they love, the style they love, the design, but getting them to not see it as their home, but as a house, and it's a product. And we really need to market this product. And how can we make this product appeal to the most people possible? So neutralize, neutral, to be toned down, print toned down, neutralize, declutter, neutralize, and depersonalize. Mhm. Yeah.
All excellent, pretty easy to follow tips. What else do you guys have planned for the future? Anything coming up? I, I would love to know as you kind of look into this idea or this concept of of creating courses or programs for staging companies or for those who want to start a staging company, what, what does your timeline look like for that?
I think we presented last year at the National Conference, and we did one online course the end of last year for another company that provides education for stagers. And so those two have kind of given us little nuggets that we're thinking about developing. And I think what seems like most people want to hear from us is how we stay boutique and have such a known brand, even in the staging world. So I think those are the things we're working on trying to tailor into to a course. But it's hard with two of us. And every time we're like, "Oh, we have a little pocketed time to work on something," and then we get really busy in the month booked up with stages, and we're like, "Oh, we'll see you next month." Yeah. So it's a goal for us for this year, for like 2025, to be working on developing and building that. We'll see where we get. Yeah. Yeah.
Absolutely. That sounds good. Well, for those who might know someone or might be considering starting, there could be agents listening to this say, "You know, I'd rather stage homes than sell them." What advice, you know, and I'm sure there's a hundred pieces of advice that you could offer someone starting a staging business, but what kind of stands out? What would you want somebody to think about?
Look at the courses offered and get certified. There was so much more in staging than we even thought about when we signed up to do the certification. And there are some really great classes. You want to look at the Real Estate Staging Association. They're the, like, I don't know, they're not the governing body of home stagers, but they're the professional affiliation for home stagers. And they have accredited courses. So you really want to take one of those classes and find out everything that's involved with running your own home staging company because it is a hard thing to be profitable at. And I think like the, everybody wants to be a stager because they, they like design and, you know, they like to make things pretty. And I think that's like 25% of the job. So there's so much else that goes into it that you really need to understand. It's a business first, I think. And like the staging is just, you know, a small piece of that. Yeah.
Yeah. That's well said and very true. You know, the actual, the practice is actually just a small part of of of running the business itself. Yeah. That's really good advice. So get certified, or at least take some classes so that you understand what the work entails. And like you guys said, that there was a lot more to it than you originally thought. Well, I want to thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to join the podcast. I'm so glad that we got to connect and talk about Salt and Pine Home on the podcast and share some staging advice for realtors and also advice for those who might be thinking about starting their own stage company. Excited to see what you guys develop in 2025. I think it's going to be, uh, you know, I'm, I'm optimistic for 2025. It sounds like you are too, and and exciting things ahead. For listeners who want to learn more about Salt and Pine Home and perhaps connect with you, what is the best way for them for them to do that?
Um, so our website, you is SaltandPineHome.com. Um, and then Instagram. Yeah. And our website has our email and everything on it. Anyone can feel free to reach out. We love chatting with people. And we're at SaltandPineStaging on Instagram.
Perfect. I'll have the website link and the Instagram information in the description for this episode, of course. And look forward to tagging Salt and Pine Home when we release this episode on social media as well. So once again, thanks so much for joining the podcast. Amy Key is a co-founder of Salt and Pine Home. Amy, thank you.
Thank you. This is great.
And Kristen Brown, co-founder of Salt and Pine at Home. Kristen, thanks so much for joining the podcast.
Thanks, Jeff.