Transcription
My mindset is like, I'll get down if something negative happens, and I'll blurt it out and we'll move on. Yeah, but the key is in the mindset; when you blurt it out and get it over with, you got to move on to the next and then don't even think about it. It is what it is. We know the drill; not everybody's buying, not everybody's going to be nice to you, but just keep it moving, right? And then also, if you sell stuff, like don't be like, "Oh my God, this is the greatest day ever; I sold three policies." Like, yeah, whatever, keep it moving.
All right, welcome to True Talk. I'm your man, Steve G Orono, the number one producer for, like, the last 100 years, here just about. Yeah, how we doing, bro?
I'm terrific, yourself?
Awesome, dude. Thanks for coming up.
Thanks for having me. You're a busy schedule dude; we got you up here. Um, but seriously, you've been number one, how many years in a row now?
Five in a row.
Five? You have five belts.
Five belts, like Booker T, dude.
Five times, right?
Five times. Five times. Five time. Five times. Love it.
Um, is that your plan this year, to be number one?
Not my plan. I mean, my plan is to grow our team, and it's funny you mention that. The number one thing I was most proud of at convention, yeah, was not the fifth belt; was one, having Tierre be a $2 million annuity Hall of Famer, and two, we were number 10 as an agency in profitability.
That's awesome. I got that. I got that. I was like, "This is the greatest thing ever." Like, I want to be number one, and you've been pushing for that. Like, I remember, dude, I think we were in Miami. I remember we gave you the belt, and I think I, I, I was taking it back from you to send it back, and I'm like, "Dude, you, you got to grow your agency." He's like, "This is the year," and you've been on it. So, number 10 profitability last year, it's awesome. What is your goal, um, agency production this year?
Really to be over 10, probably 11 to 12. I think we can do it.
Agency Hall of Fame. Yeah, Agency Hall of Fame. That's kind of been my number one goal this year. I want to be Agency Hall of Fame, Annuity Hall of Fame, Personal Hall of Fame. Okay. I think it's doable for sure. What's the most, um, annuities you've ever written in a year?
Um, not too much, maybe like 400,000. I think I got it.
So you got some, some room there to grow, but I mean, it's not, I mean, we're, we're in, you know, March; it's not crazy. It can happen.
I got a few in the pipeline. Yeah, and right now you're at, well, this is going back a few weeks, through end of February, 264,000.
Yeah, which is on pace to do about 1.7, 1.8. So you continue that pace, it'll be your best year ever. Wild. Are you working a lot more?
I mean, it's different because this business has always evolved for me, you know, we were, we go from like the pandemic where we're like in-home and we're selling people in like the driveway to now we're virtual, to, for me, it's hybrid. So I've looked at it like, "Man, I can sell in person, and I can sell over the phone," and also having people book on my calendar for ILUL. So, like, from a phone call perspective, I'm probably making more phone calls and more appointments. From a working hard perspective, I mean, I'm home more. Yeah, so like I can make a couple phone calls and go, like, do the laundry or whatever, you know what I mean? Or like go do something else and sell a couple of I. So, so it's not like you've doubled your work at, like, correct your schedule; it's pretty much same schedule, more on the phone, right? But I mean, just switching.
When did you make that switch to ILS and virtual?
Last year I was doing virtual, but I was probably like 10, 20%. Now it might be like 40, 50, depending the week. Um, and you look, they, they, the way you set it up, they book themselves, so you just, you open your calendar, and then you're just taking calls, and you get your no-shows and your this and you're that, and you can sell a policy in 20 minutes to people everywhere. It's just like, any, once you know your numbers, you've cracked the code, right? Like if you know if I dial this many times, speak to this many people, this is how many sales I'm going to make. Now you got the cheat code, 100%. And the better you get, the better those ratios get, but that's why you got to know your numbers.
Absolutely. Um, what do you do, so being the number one producer year in and year out, you got to have a constant lead flow, right? Like, I guess what is the key to being number one?
I think lead flow for sure. You're not going to, you know, you're not going to sell just anybody; you need people that actually want it. So lead flow and being diverse and having, I always say like two to three types or vendors or whatever way you want to look at that; that's number one. Your schedule and your discipline is number two. You know your calendar; if it's not minute by minute and kind of filled out that way to where you know you got something next coming up, um, you're never going to get to those numbers, and you know that, and that's hard. Like, sometimes you don't want to, sometimes you're tired, sometimes you're whatever. You got to make sure that your goals don't care if you're tired or not, right? That schedule is filled out for, you know, the five, six days that I'm working it, and I'm maximizing it, and I get a lot of urgency around, all right, like if I don't have something on that calendar, like I got to go call somebody, I got to call a past client, I got to call somebody I didn't sell, like there's somebody to call, you know, when you buy leads. So I think that's kind of the key, the lead flow and then the schedule.
Yeah, it's funny, I interview people every week here, and everything I ask always boils down to mentality, mindset, because everything you just said, schedule, but I have to make sure I'm calling; so that's a mindset thing.
Absolutely, because you could easily go, "Well, dude, my first three appointments weren't there; today's going to suck, blah blah blah. I'm just going to get on it tomorrow."
Yeah, I think that's what separates top producers from people that don't produce, don't produce enough, is they let distractions and excuses get away.
Yes, right. How do you make sure that that does not, I know it's probably easier now, seven years, but I mean, early on, your first year, 2019, you sold almost 700,000; you're number two, you know, in the country. How do you avoid those distractions and not let that negativity sink in?
It's funny because you say it's easy; it's actually still hard for me in this regard because I want to close everybody. I'm competitive, the whole thing. I'll get down at certain times, and and a lot of people will look at me and be like, "Well, he closes everybody, right?" It's 1.5; he closes every single person. Yes, do I have a good close ratio? Sure, but what I don't have is a lot of days where I don't get something out of it, meaning like when you do that over a month, a year, and you, all right, you fought through nine no-shows, but you sold one, right? And then you did the next day, and you sold three, and then, oh, this day you had six because you, but you just worked it. And my mindset like, I'll get down if if something negative happens, and I'll blurt it out and move on. Yeah, but the key is, and the mindset is, when you blurt it out and get it over with, like you got to move on to the next and then don't even think about it. It is what it is. Like, we know the drill; not everybody's buying, not everybody's going to be nice to you, but just keep it moving, right? And then also, if you sell stuff, like don't be like, "Oh my God, this is the greatest day ever; I sold three policies." Like, yeah, whatever, keep it moving.
Yeah. How have you not rode that part of the roller coaster, because there's ups and downs in sales, right? And I think every agent struggles with one of the other; some when they're down, dude, they're down like they, you know, five appointments in a row were no-showed, and all of a sudden they're, they're, they're looking on Indeed for a new job, you know, they're ready to quit, they're selling their TV. Like, "Dude, relax." But also, you go on a streak. I've been there where I remember my worst day ever in the field was preceded by like three of my best weeks ever. Dude, this was like my first year; I'm getting paid four or five grand a week. I'm like, "Dude, this is awesome," right? And then I had a day where I had 10 point appointments; all of them were there, Steve; I closed none of them, and I'm like, "This sucks; I should not even be in this business." Horrible. But so the, the, the downs are hard to manage, but being number one, you know, five years in a row, and always being around that million, you know, except for the first year where you were here for 11 months, how do you not ride that high?
I'm always afraid like somebody's gonna take it away. Yeah, like literally, like I, I don't like, you have to have a mentality when, I think you're an entrepreneur, like you're, you're thinking bigger, you're making more money, you're thinking like on this bigger level, yeah, but you have to match that with like you could lose it in an instant, right? And I have that just in me, like I'm like, all right, like one, we haven't arrived; like there's a lot more I want to do. What's amazing about this business is the cash flow that it gives you; it can help you to do other things that you want to do. Yeah, so like just look at it for what it is and don't, don't ride the high and be like, "Oh, like we've made it." Like, we haven't made it, right? Like, yes, we're happy where we are, but there's, there's more to do, and you could literally lose it at any minute.
Yeah, you're kind of almost always looking over your shoulder.
Like 100%. Yeah, you got to, um, I mean, it's been an impressive run. People that look at you like, I, you do get that, you know, "Well, Steve doesn't need to get on training," but it's funny, every time we talk, you're like, "Dude, I get on all the training." It's what I try to explain to every, the top guys get on everything; it's the ones in the middle that like, "Oh, I don't need to get on; I already know how to sell." Dude, I don't need to listen to you, Steve; I learned how to sell last year, and I'm good now. You're like, "D," but you do like 200k a year; my man's done that in two months, but you still get on as much training as you can.
Absolutely, because there's always like one little thing. Yeah, it's not to say like, yeah, you're going to hear an hour call, and it's going to be, you're going to hear an hour worth of stuff that's going to change your life; you're going to hear probably one thing, when you've been doing this a long time, and it's like, it could be a word track. Like I was talking to this agent this morning, yeah, and she's talking to me about doing uh, mortgage appointments, and she's talking about how she'll communicate to the client about, hey, the, the bank's going to foreclose on your house in three months, and she uses that in her pitch in that three months, and then when you're doing Equity protection or what have you, and I was like, "Man, I don't do that." I'm like, "I'm gonna start doing that," right? Like now, I write a hell of a lot more than this person, yeah, but I'm like, "That makes sense; I need to tweak that," and that's where that mentality comes; like if you think you know it all, like you're, you're dead; you're going to, like, you're going to ride the way for a little bit, sure, but it's going to come and bite you soon because you think you have it all figured out. Like, be confident in what you do, but there's, there's a lot of learning to do, and you better be out there doing it.
Absolutely. I saw this uh, TikTok the other day; I forget who it was; it was some U major league baseball player taking ground balls, and the quote was like, you know, you got kids that, you know, don't want to do this because it's boring; they already know, but the sky is in the major leagues; only a small percentage of people make it there. What's he spending? Probably an hour doing fielding routine, ground balls, right? Basic ground balls, not nothing crazy, not no Derek Jeter jump; it's just right here. And that's kind of like what getting on the training is; you know, dialing, doing the, the stuff that you already know how to do, but repetition will help you get to perfection, or as close to that as you're going to get. And think about, I'm a Yankee fan, right? So Aaron Judge, amazing player, absolutely drops that fly ball in the World Series; routine, he's done it a million times, and I'm not trying to pick on him; I love him, he's an amazing player, but to that point, like, focus on that little stuff; that little stuff could have been the difference of them winning a World Series and losing one.
Absolutely. And it was, I mean, that was that ending was atrocious, right?
That was the catalyst.
Yep. Absolutely. Once that started, it was just a domino effect, and that's, I think that's what happens in business too, right? Like it's these small things that you don't correct, that you don't fix, you don't pay attention to, and then all of a sudden it's a domino effect, and next thing you know you're like, "Volume's down; I'm not recruiting; oh, we got debt; all this stuff." It snowballs, but it starts with something small, you know. Um, what have you been doing on the recruiting side, because I mean, you know, goal's 10 million; I think you'll hit it; you top 10 from a profitability standpoint last year, and that, I mean, full transparency, it's something that I don't want to say you struggled with, but you were early on, you, you struggle with building a team, right? It was up, down, up, down. Like I remember like, "Dude, can't figure this [ __ ] out," like,
Mhm.
But you're gaining some traction now.
Absolutely. Why? What have you changed?
I think one, in building like kind of the brand of like what I sell and like what our team is doing, with a lot of social media; that's the attraction marketing there has been helping, and then me reaching out to people through Instagram and just trying to have like better connections with people and finding the people that want to literally legitimately do this, and they want to start businesses. I don't even like to talk a lot in in recruiting conversations about quote-unquote insurance, yeah, until I understand if you're the person that I think understands running a business, because that's like number one; like I could teach anybody to sell insurance; selling insurance, we sell three type of products; they're pretty cut and dry; people fill out leads and want it, but I need you to understand how to run a business. So there's been a lot of that through social media and and frankly, I, I'm very picky of who I want to work with. We've all made mistakes and recruited the wrong people; it's how business goes, right? And you learn your lesson, and then I think the second thing would be the good leaders that I have on my team, empowering them more, and they're finding now kind of that next level, so it's becoming a multiplication. We're not where we want to be yet, but I feel like we're on our way, and you just got to keep chopping the ax and figuring things out.
Yeah, absolutely. You guys, through February, about 900,000.
Yeah. Good way to start the year, obviously pick it up a little bit. 10 million very doable with starting year at 900.
Yeah, we're going to do it, you know. Um, people watching it that don't know you probably think, "Dude, this guy's must have been in sales since he was like five," like how's he sell? You have not been, right? Your background was restaurant business.
100%.
Yeah, how long were you in a restaurant business for?
15 years.
15 years. Yeah, why'd you make the move to sales?
I just wanted more. Like, I remember, you know, working in restaurants where it was just, you were very capped at where you were going to be; you had a lot of people making decisions for you on where your next career move was going to be; there weren't as many opportunities, and if there were, you had to move, and I kind of, I had this angst around like, "I cannot listen to somebody tell me what to do anymore." Yeah, it just was not matching my personality, um, and I'm like, "I'm good at like a lot of these things and like kind of leading myself; I need something like that," right? And then sales, I think was natural in I think my personality and kind of how I was able to connect with people. Yeah, um, and then you throw in hard work and, you know, the system we have, and it's like this recipe for, for good things when you put it all together.
Why did you get into the restaurant business?
I wanted to be a chef at the time when I was like, got 15.
Okay, maybe when you were 15 you want to be a chef.
Yeah, like I, I start where come from. I know, right? Like I started working at a catering hall, and like I saw, and I was like, "Oh, this is cool," whatever, and you know, I didn't know what I didn't know. Um, I liked it; I like cooking; I still do. Yeah, but I then started learning like, okay, like this is like labor, labor; like you're going to like beat yourself up.
Did you start out as a chef?
Um, I started out as a dishwasher, and then I worked my way up to being a chef, and went to culinary school, and then I was like, okay, I like more of the, the management and the business side of things, so that's where kind of the business kind of, you know.
When you left, you were general manager?
Yeah, I ran, I, I had multiple units; I was like a district manager for multiple restaurants and stuff.
What was your best year income-wise in the restaurant ind?
Like 110.
110. How many hours a week were you working then?
Probably 50, 60.
And that was when you, man, nights, yeah, the whole deal. Yeah, was there, were you capped out? Was that, was there anywhere to grow from there?
I mean, you could, there would have been certain um, positions I could have taken that would have been higher, but it was, you know, moving, and you got to move here, you got to move there, wait for someone to die or something. Yeah, like I moved a couple times, and yeah.
Was that, was that the type of thing? The people that had the positions, they weren't, there's only so many there, not like a bunch of positions up there; you're waiting for someone to quit, die, retire, or yeah.
Got it. Um, and you met Mark and me in the restaurant business or?
Um, yeah, technically, yeah. It was when we were both with Red Lobster.
Okay. And then he la, he obviously joined or got his license a lot earlier. Yeah. How did you end up working with Mark here?
He did a hell of a good job recruiting me on social media one day; he sent me a message on Facebook; we're talking about the Dolphins, and um, and then we just started talking business, and I had been looking at insurance, and I was telling him the company I was looking at, and he was like, "Well, they have no leads, so please don't do that."
Um, I'm like, "All right, duly noted." Um, and then he was like, "Here, let me kind of show you how this system works." It made a hell of a lot more sense than not having anybody to talk to.
Got it. And this is back when 2018, 19?
No, this was actually like 20, let me think here, maybe 2017.
Okay. Yeah, so he approached, that was the first time he ever talked to you about this?
Yeah, like did you all keep in touch or?
Yeah, we were friends, and we would talk sports here and there. Somehow you both are Dolphins fans; like there's a few of you guys still out there.
All three of us, my heart goes out to you. Um, and then yeah, I saw what he was doing, and he just started communicating. So you were following him on social, see the stuff, but you said you already looking into insurance?
What attracted you to insurance?
I had, I'd gotten an IUL back 2015 from a guy who was selling it in a restaurant I worked in, so he was having an appointment, and I over here, and I didn't have a retirement through them at the time, so I was like, "Oh, that sounds cool," and then he, you know, he sells me the IUL, and he's going through, "Man, you'd be good at this; like you kind of have to look for it, this, the other thing," but I had no like idea like around. He's like, "Well, you're not going to have a salary, you're not going to have leads, you're not going to have a car, you're not going to have insurance." I'm like, "I don't know if I can do that; what am I gonna have like?" And I was not in an entrepreneurial mindset at all at the time.
Well, what were you doing at the restaurant at that point?
I was district manager; I had multiple units, so yeah, I was probably making whatever, 100 or so; was doing okay. And um, but I knew, I just knew in that conversation with him, I'm like, "All right, like this makes sense, but I need something there." I needed to understand; it wasn't the right time for it; wasn't the right time; it took time, and I did my research, which I'm very analytical and sometimes too analytical, um, and then it started to make sense.
Okay, you, you've been researching insurance prior to Mark reaching out or?
Um, yeah, so after I spoke to him, that guy that told me the IUL, I just started like watching videos of like, like Shawn and other top people in the industry; found out we were early on.
Yeah, like I, yeah, I saw, and then I saw he was connected; I was like, okay, like, and I just started watching videos.
Got it. YouTube. And then Mark reached out, told you don't join the company with no leads, but that was 2017; you didn't join us till 19.
That was actually, so yeah, so we had the conversation probably 17, I got licensed a year later.
Okay, it was the end of 2018. Why'd you take so long? Were you just, you weren't ready to start at that point?
Because I was like analyzing, like I do everything, and I, it just wasn't like a lot of people; I wasn't ready to make the jump. Yeah.
Well, I mean, you had what, 10, 15 years in at this point, correct?
Big-time investment to walk away from, right? Um, so you research for a couple years; what got you to finally make that jump?
I just got so sick of listening to someone at, I was working at a hospital at the time; I was running food nutrition, right? And it was, it was a good gig for what it was when I moved to Florida, and I was just listening to the people who, who hired me to run a department for my expertise of which they didn't have any, a higher up, and then they're like, "Well, we need you to do this, this, this, this this way." I'm like, "You brought me in because of what I know; why in the world would I, I'm not telling you how to run the hospital, like, so don't tell me how to run the food; you got me here to run the food." And I just got that angst where I was like, "I can't do this; like I can't, I'm a more of a freethinker; I need to run my own thing." Yeah, like bottom line, I cannot listen to anybody.
Yeah, got it. And then will you reach back out to Mark or?
Yeah, I think we, we had been talking, and I had got my license, and uh, it was literally right, the, I think it was September, I got in 2018, and then I started part-time in, was that November of 2018, like right at the end.
Okay, so you were part-time for a few months.
Yeah, like two months.
Two. What was that early, what was early Steve selling insurance like? Because obviously you weren't, you know, doing 200 grand a month, but what was it like early on for you?
It was a struggle. I was too nice with people. I was, yeah, 'cause I was just so used to, yeah, you work in a restaurant, you make everybody happy. I go to a house, like, you know, and then you're in these situations where you've never been in before, and I'm just trying to like cater to every little need as opposed to your appointments long in the beginning, um, longer. I've never made them too long because I've never wanted to be in them too long; I'm like, "I don't get paid by the hour; let's just knock this out here," but it would just be like I'm trying to be too nice to you, and then I'm not telling you what makes sense for you based on my analysis of your situation, and then they wouldn't buy. Yeah, and then I, and then I got lucky; there were some people that were super duper nice and like would have bought from anybody who was nice to them. Yeah, there are those clients; probably maybe a third of the people you meet with; I was like, okay, like, but then I learned, and I'll never forget there was this woman; I didn't close her; she wanted to do like, was like 600 a month or something ridiculous; it was really late at night, and I called Mark afterwards, and he, he said to me, I'll never forget, he goes, "How do you feel that you didn't close that woman, and she's going to be left with what?" However he said it, it was a very like harsh comment, right? Something like, "She, you know, now she can't protect her F; she left with nothing," type, and I was like, it hit me, and I'm like, the light bulb went off. Okay, I'm like, "He's right." I'm like, "I'm doing this incorrectly; I'm not, I'm not taking control and closing people," and why am I not? I have a personality that I can do that, and a stature to do that, and then I started doing it, and then I was just like, off to the races.
So was it the like him almost, I want to say reminding you, but pointing out the value of what you're selling versus this whole like, "Did I close or not?"
Yeah, and also I think he said to me, uh, "I knew you could be coached hard," yeah, because I'm very kind of old school, whereas I think we're in a generation now where like people cannot be coached hard. Oh my god. Um, so when he co, like I was not mad, I wasn't upset; I was like, "He's right; like this, that's what I needed; I needed that like kick in the ass and kind of like redirecting me in what I was doing." I was working hard; like I was like, it wasn't like I was sitting around doing nothing, and he knew that, and that was like the spark.
Got it. And I was like, "Okay, now I understand what this is about." I, I love your transparency, CU, sometimes I interview people, and I try to ask about struggles, and they're like, "No, I never struggled; I was just day one when I was great." I'm like, "Dude, dude, that's not, first of all, it's not cool to say, right? No one's impressed by that; they actually, they know you're lying." I don't care how good you are; what we sell is completely different from any other type of sale.
100%.
And so if you've been in sales forever, and you join us, and you pretend you never, never struggled, you're lying. If you've never been in sales, and you join us, and you pretend you never struggled, you're also lying. So I, I love you being honest.
No doubt, because it doesn't make you look like...
Your numbers speak for themselves. Like, but obviously you had to work through those struggles. When you were at that point where you're being too nice, you're not, you know, selling at the level you want; you're still part-time, right?
Yeah.
Yeah. Was there part of you that thought like, maybe this ain't the gig? Maybe I shouldn't do this?
You know, I, I, I'd say no. And here's probably the reason: I'd say no. I was so all into it, yeah, that I almost was like, I don't have another—like, I wasn't going back to restaurant.
Got it. Like, I'm either going to figure this out or to the ground. I mean, like, yes, I maybe in the back of my head I was like, okay, obviously I could, but I'm like, I'm just not going to. I remember, you know, I'm in my old house. I had this bedroom that I was like, all right, this is going to be my office. And I went completely all in, renovated it, got a custom desk, the whole deal. I had the whole setup, literally. And then when I bought my new house, I made the same exact setup. Cuz I'm very superstitious. Like, if it's, if it's not broke, don't fix it. And I just remember I was like, I'm all in; this is what I'm doing; this is what I'm spending on it; and I'm just not going to look back.
Yeah, so yeah, I'm sure I had moments where I was like, what am I doing? Right? But they didn't last long because I was just so like, I'm like, this works. Like, I look at—I'm looking around. And that's the thing about this company: if you're struggling, call somebody who's not. And, and what I mean by that is like, everybody is going to struggle. You're going to call—you call me; you're going to call everybody—and they're going to tell you the 17 struggle that they have. Sure, but they're going to tell you how they're overcoming them and how they're making X and doing this, right? You know? But what a lot of people do when they're struggling, Steve, is they call someone else who's struggling.
Yes.
The worst—they can sit there and [__] moan and complain together.
Correct. And now it's like, oh, we're both going to quit. Like, hey, you're going to quit—quit at it.
Yeah. But if you're looking to get better, don't call the guy who's in the same damn position as you, right? Like you were talking to Mark; you weren't talking to the next brand new guy who's struggling, going, hey, what are you doing? But it's my—you see it in meetings; you see it at convention. Like, d—what are y'all two talking about out here? Neither one of you sell. There's a guy on stage who sells 10 times what you sell—because you sell nothing—but you want advice from him?
Yeah. It's—dude, it's been like that for since the day we got in this business.
Yes. We used to go to these little meetings, you know, 20, 30 people training, and there was this guy—um, I don't remember his name—but older guy, sweater vest, you know, the insur—he knew everything about every product, Steve. You know how much he sold?
I—me less than—barely anything. Every once in a while accidentally sold a policy, but he—we would get to—he'd get there early so he can train everyone. And this is back old school SE. He'd walk in and go, dude, what—why are you training? You don't sell anything. If y'all want to learn how not to sell, talk to him. And you get all uncomfortable. But, but we still have—it's not—it—but we still have that going on in pockets. Reach out—maybe it's uncomfortable to reach out to someone who's doing more, but that's how you're going to learn. Yeah, cuz people feel comfortable with each other; they're like, oh, man, like I'm in the same boat as you; like, let's talk.
Right. No, you got to talk—be the dumbest one in the room.
AB. Like, find—find the Smart Ones.
100%. Um, when was that conversation with Mark that kind of open—that, you know, turn that light on for—
Trying to think. It was probably maybe the second month or third month. It was a really late appointment, and I called him on the way home and I was like, how did I not close this woman?
You were still part-time then?
I—yeah, I think—yeah, I was right before that first convention, I believe.
Got it. When did you make the jump to full-time?
Pretty much when I went to convention, that 2019. It—so it was 2019. That was the last one we did in Vegas, Planet Hollywood.
Uh, second to last.
Second to last. Yeah. So I—going into it, I was like, okay, like coming out of this, I'm going to be full-time. Like, that was the thing. And then I just remember being there and like, I was so laser-focused because I knew like, this is it; we're burning boats; like, we ain't going back. And I'm looking at people and I'm like, okay, I'm connecting with people who were selling at a high level. I'm like, okay, just—what are you doing? Yeah, what should I do? And I'm just trying to follow along and then just listening to people who were doing it and following their advice and then understanding like, it's time to go to work.
Yeah, you know. And, and I—and I did. And there was things—in—personally, I was like, well, you know, to my wife, we're not going to do this for the next couple months. Yeah, I'm going to focus—working five, six days a week doing this.
Yeah. What some things you had to sacrifice? That—we talked so much about the good, right? Like, Steve, you sell a lot; obviously you're making money. Like, before you answer that, what—what's been your best income year with us?
Was last year.
Yeah.
A little over a million.
Little over a million. Yeah. Gross.
Yeah. Right. Would you spend that year like—expens—140?
Well, lead's probably 140. I'm sure it's a little high, other—maybe two—with other—round two. So you—last year you spent double what your best income year was prior to life insurance?
Yeah. And gladly, too. Gladly. But it—when you—when you obviously you're businessman, entrepreneur, you get it, but when you take a step back, like, try to remove yourself and think about it, it's crazy.
It is, right? Like, but would you—who wouldn't want to spend 200k to gross a million? Keep eight. Right? Do that all day. You know? And then you play into obviously taxes and how you play that, you know, game and whatever as a business person.
Yeah. But either way, even if you walk away with 5600k net, it's a pretty good deal.
Hell yeah. And there's no cap. Correct. Like, you do more, you make more. Right? You don't have to wait for, you know, you don't have to wait for C to die and be the CEO to make—like, you just do what you do.
Correct. Um, but we—we talk about that stuff a lot. Sacrifices, I think, is also something that holds people back because they're unwilling to make them at all. Like, and we're not saying, dude, you know, sacrifice—don't see your family for 10 years type [__] like, but what—we're—sacrifices you decided to make early on, and how did you communicate that to your—you didn't have kids at the time, right?
No. It was just you and Margot. What—what was that like?
Yeah, it's funny. So in my old—when I got the position in the hospital, I moved to Florida. I was so used to working nights and weekends and like, really killing myself. So I get this position now that's Monday to Friday. I move to South Florida; it's amazing. I'm basically working my daytime job, um, you know, hanging out, doing stuff at night, doing stuff on the weekends, whatever. So I get into this, and—and it's hard in South Florida, right? There's—you could always be doing something. I tell people, I'm like, you—you're not going to get a higher producer probably in South Florida than me, just because they're going to be enticed by everything. You know what I mean? Like, and it's hard to—to not be.
Yeah. So the sacrifices early on was, I—instead of—when I used to come home from work and all right, now I'm going to sit on a TV, I'm G to watch some sports, I'm going to do this, I'm G to do that, I was working in the evenings, right? Dialing, calling, whatever. And there was sacrifice of those nights. And then I'm obviously running late appointments. So if I'm running four days—Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday—U—maybe the Saturday I'd cut it off early, but that nighttime—those hours—that's where my income leveling up came, right? And it was basically just communicating, you know, with my wife, like, okay, here's what we're going to do; this is going to be the schedule; I'm going to sacrifice these nights; and then, all right, then we're going to have like Saturdays, and then we're going to have Sunday. Yeah. And I just did that. And then—thing, you know, because again, the goal—it's about what your goals are. The goals were to make more money. Yeah, like, let's sacrifice now; let's make more money; let's get ourselves into a better position; let's then be able to have kids, afford it, and not be freaking out about it.
Right. Because they're expensive.
They're expensive. They—yeah, they definitely—how many you have now?
Two.
Two. How old are they?
Uh, four and one's going to be three.
Okay. Like, two months. They're going to get more expensive every year, Steve. So—
Yeah.
Right. Correct. Yeah, get ready. That's why people like, oh, like, why do you sell so much? Two kids? Like, I don't know, why don't you? Great question. You got four, why aren't you selling as much? I don't understand. Um, but that was kind of that sacrifice then, but I knew what I wanted at the time, and I'm like, all right, like, what am I doing? I'm—some of these nights I'm just sitting around like watching Netflix, like—right? I could be building a business.
Correct. You know, for the long-term—pain. One of the things I—I learned early on in this business at a convention—um, guy said, take—get a white sheet of paper, draw a line down the middle, write what you want on one side. Do that—just fill it up—whatever you want—go on three trips a year; you want to go to Disney; you want to go to WrestleMania; whatever the hell it is—write it—sit down with your family, if you got kids, wife—write it—all those things down. And then on the other column, write what you're willing to give up, yeah, to do that. Because everybody wants—right? You want to go to Disney? Yeah, I'd be great. I—I wish I could. How many times you hear that [__]—I wish I could do this. And if—if I went to lottery, I would do X, Y, and Z. Why don't you just give up some stuff and start checking things off that list? But as long as that want list is—what you're going to give up better be equally as—as long, because there's only so many hours in a day, Y, and it's not a—hey, sacrifice, you know, this for 10 years. Do it for a couple years. Doy—kids are little.
Yep. Correct. You know, like, when—when my first daughter, Carmel, she is 13 now, when she was born, that first year, you could have picked her up and she wouldn't have known the difference between me or you.
True. Right? Like, I wasn't happy about it at the time, but our goal was, when we have kids, we don't want to drop them off at daycare; we don't want family members to raise them; wanted my wife to retire from the bank she was at—she was a head teller at a bank for—hand—it's actually why I'm here; she met C there—but we didn't want her to work while we were raising kids. But what I had to give up, Steve, was almost every single night. This wasn't FFL; this wasn't 140% comp; they at like a 70% comp—writing, you know, back then—200 grand a year was like—you guys writing five now, but I mean, I'm selling 200k a year; I'm working in the office with Shawn, building a company. I had one night where I went home at 4. I—I left the office at 4, went home. Tuesday nights, for some reason, I picked Tuesday nights—that was like my night off. Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I worked from 8 in the morning to 10, 11 o'clock at night. But I don't do that now, right? But I had to do it then. And we did—we sat down—what do we want? We want you to stay home; we want to be able to take some trips; we want to not worry about money. And different levels—I mean, back then it was like, I want to go to the restaurant and not look at the price when I order my dinner, right? And not go, o—d—could we get an appetizer or not? Like that [__]—I don't—I hate when you go out with someone and you know they're splitting it up; they can't—how much—looking for t—d—who cares, right? Don't go out if you're going to be that—
Exactly. I've been a—a buster, dishwasher; I've done all that [__], and like, the worst is like, you're busting your—and you get like a $2 tip on like a $200 bill. Like, dude, don't come out then.
Yeah, you know. But you got to be willing to sacrifice. Your why also has to change. Like, there's no way you keep doing 1.4, 1.5 million every single year with your same why from 2019.
Right. Yeah. What was your why initially, and what is it now?
Yeah, it's interesting. So originally, it's survive, right? So like, I'm—it's okay, you made 110; can you make at least that? Right? Can you survive? Then it's okay, like, I see where this is going; I can make more. And then it was, okay, like, I want to have a bigger home because we want to have kids. And then it becomes, you know, you want your wife home to raise them and homeschool them, which is probably what we're going to do. Um, and that's a whole—that—that's very liberating to be able to do that. And now it's kind of like, um, I want to venture into other things and take the monies that we make here to create more. Right? And I think that's something that gets lost a lot. Like, there's so many opportunities—like real estate; I'm doing like a faceless YouTube channel, which is a wrestling channel.
I actually came across it.
Yeah. Okay. So. And it's like, you can do fun stuff and you can make money. And—and it's also like learning. And now it—then also becomes, okay, getting the time back, right? Because now they are becoming three and four, so like, there are things—like, yeah, I'm not always there as much as I want to be, but I can say, okay, we can do this, that, and the other. So it's now—when that time back and being able to like coach a sport as they get—as they're getting older, stuff like that.
That's awesome. Um, what is your goal personally this year—production?
It's a great question. I mean, like, have you thought about it yet?
No. Honestly, I'm just like, I guess—I mean, I always like to beat my number, I guess. Like, but—um, I always like to—to do what's possible, you know? Like—yeah, being number one is cool, like, whatever. If I am—if I'm not, I'm not going to lose any sleep. The biggest goal, like I said before, is our team over 10 million. That's number one. Um, me probably being, you know, an Nity Hall of Famer would be number two. Yeah, doing something I haven't done there. And then—yeah, I mean, I'm sure I'll write 1.5 orish in that—in that ballpark. Um, it would be cool to maybe do two. And I—I say it in this regard with the—the new kind of I lead structure and the virtual and the whole deal where you can really sell more and have more appointments, right? It doesn't mean you're going to have to necessarily put in that much more time, but you can—H—you can maximize your time.
Correct. So which—we're—we're going to talk about that on the next level this week with you—um, about that lead structure. Because I was saying this to—Syana was up here recently, and I remember when we used to dial on Saturdays back in the day—we're talking 10, 15 years ago—everyone would come to the office; we dial leads. And I—I was really good on the phone, so Sean would have new guys sit down and listen to me. And, you know what? I'd sit there; I'd book 105 appointments, right? In front of them. You know what most of their questions would be?
What—what kind of leads are those?
Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like, dude, it's not the lead, right? It's you—it's you.
Right. Talk to me about that mentality—that presumptives—cuz I mean, you—right now you're doing a lot of IUL stuff. Are you doing one-call close? You setting appointments? Or—
I do one-call close—one-call close. Or like—so they'll fill out an ad, and then it'll—they'll book on my calendar. They will have seen a couple of videos through that process. They book themselves. So they book themselves, and then I'm running those as a one-call close—phone—not Zoom.
Got it.
Phone—phone. Yeah. But it's still—I would assume—I've never sold over the phone; I was always in person. That—that presumptives—that assumptively I tell—agen—is that I'm—I'm kind of like, right off the bat, pre-qualifying you from the health perspective. Yeah, I don't want to waste my time telling you all these amazing things about the IUL, and then you tell me that you have congestive heart failure. Right? So I'm like, right off the bat, I'll literally ask people when they got on the call with me, all right, you saw all this stuff in—in the videos, tell me your thoughts, what you were kind of looking for. And then I started asking like, what they have for other life insurances, whatever. And then—um, doing pre-qualification from a health, and then I'm explaining what it does. And I think the number one thing with being—maybe you're not as stern in the—in these type of calls because it's more educational. Yeah. And I think you already have them on a hook, right? And now—okay, if I think you qualify, I tell you all the—the good that you've already seen. So now you've seen it twice. And that's the hook—it's the education.
Got it. And then what I'm also looking to do is reallocate money. So like, I ask him, oh, you have a term—like, I had a guy before—I have a term; I pay 60 bucks a month; I have a whole life that I pay 119 bucks a month. He's healthy enough to qualify for an IUL, and he owns a business and has no retirement. Yeah, I'm like, cool, man, let's just take your 179 here and put it over here, right? And here's why this is going to do this, this, this versus what this isn't doing. And he's like, man, that makes a lot of sense. Cool. Not spending any more money than he was, right? I'm just reallocating your money.
Yeah. You know, it—it's knowing your client.
100%. Like, that's—you—one of my favorite trainings from back in the day was Sean's psychology of the sale. Wasn't because of, you know, the great rebuttal he had in there; it was all about understanding who we're selling to.
Yes. Right. When it was direct mail mortgage, it was people that just got a mortgage—refi something, but they filled out a form and sent it back to us. IULs—they saw your video, right? A lot of people—the video hits a lot of people; most of them scroll past it, right? This—this individual saw it—watched the whole thing; they fill out—and then from there they go to your countly or—so it's like they fill out the lead form—I'm interested—whatever—then it goes into—like, I have like an AI bot thing where—chat bot or something.
Yeah.
So it'll be like, okay, like, now you saw the video, here's who I am; has my business card; here's my calendar; book a time on my calendar. And then it'll—let's say they don't respond from that or book it—drips on you every day.
Got it. So like, then—then I can jump in cuz it's on my phone, you know, if they have a question, whatever. And then I can—I'm just getting to the—the—but they've done these like—so knowing your client—they saw the video; they filled out the form; they're going back with the chat B, you—whatever—but they put themselves on your calendar.
Correct. So I think a lot of Agents shoot themselves in the foot because they get on the appointment—now they're checking interest again.
Yeah. Like—so you want to buy life insurance? To—like—well, no [__]—it's why I'm sitting here.
Exactly. Right? They're not going to come out—hey, I'm here to buy life insurance today. You still—they—they're buying you; they got to—can they trust you? Is it the right product? But this is so key—you got to go into it expecting everybody you sit down with to want a life insurance policy cuz that's why we're meeting with them.
Right. Lead-based sale. If we're cold calling, door knocking—I got you, dude—check interest. I—I have no advice for you on that.
Right.
Good luck.
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Good luck—probably find a new job, right? You know. Um, you transitioned into IULs—I mean, you started last year you said, but like—
Yeah, fully—I mean, half and half right now.
Yeah. I think uh, probably if you look at my numbers, I'm probably about half and half. I think the first month I did like 75,000 IULs and 70,000—fight issue whole. Now I would say later than some people, right?
What took you so long?
I mean, I sold them this whole time. I was doing mortgage leads, so it was more like—at the time—CBO.
Got it. And then—so it makes sense. You move them over. And now even on mortgage, it's such an easier sale because like, they came into this for one thing, and now you're like, man, like, well, we're going to do that, but we're going to give you like living benefit and we're going to give you cash accumulation for retirement. Like, wow, like that's amazing. Like, I'm not just paying this thing for 30 years and it's going to run out. You know, I mean—was there any part of you—cuz I mean, selling over a million every year predominantly mortgage, right?
Yeah.
Was there any part of you thinking like, dude, if I switch to the—I'm G to screw this up? Like, I mean, at all?
No. And I'll tell you why, because I've looked at it like—the more I add and the broader I am, all that means is it's going to help me sell more, and it's probably going to save time, right? You know? So I think you got to be careful, you know? Like, there's a sweet spot to everything. Like, yeah, I—I'm the first to tell you, I would love—I don't love driving, but I do love being in front of you, connecting with you, looking at your policies, whatever. Yeah, I will always take that any day of the week. And I do think there's a missing component here. I think sometimes we are a little too all virtual heavy sometimes—to the point—like, whatever—if you do it and you sell and you don't spend boatload and you're profitable, like, do it all day long. I'm with you. But if you struggle with it, don't be like, well, I can never go to the field, because then you're—you're—then you're shooting yourself in the foot. You know? Like, do what works. Everything works a little bit. At the end of the day, it's funny—anything I ask, it's always a positive spin; it's a good thing. That's good. Have you always been that way?
I'm kind of negative sometimes, I'll be honest. Like, I am—I mean, I try to be positive, but I have my moments.
What do—what do you do to maintain that though?
Personal development books. Like—what?
Yeah, like, I—I definitely listen to certain podcasts and entrepreneurs, and you know, I save a lot of reels on—on Instagram, like, kind of quick things that are just like—they keep you sharp. And I—I also—I have a belief that in the—if you work hard, if you do the right things, if you put in the time, good things will happen. It doesn't mean they're always going to happen when you want them to.
Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, you—you're gonna have some bad days, bad months, whatever. But if you can like harness and not let it bring you down, like, if you got to go—this is something from restaurants—if you had like a bad time, go in the freezer and scream for a minute and then come back out and then let's keep it moving. It's kind of the same thing. Like, all right, you had a frustrating situation with a client; they canceled; they didn't buy; whatever. All right, how many people are there in the world—in—in the country? Right? Go call somebody else.
Correct. You know what I mean? Like, keep planting seeds. You were starting saying it when we first got on, you know, you have a bad moment—bad—you a bad hour—
Yeah.
But you don't need to have a bad day.
Correct. Don't live there. Right? Why are you G to let one interaction—I five interactions with clients or whatever the case may be—you're driving to the office; somebody cuts you off; pisses you off. You know, let that—Bo—you—let that ruin the rest of your day.
Correct. And it sounds stupid, but a lot of people do. And if you could—let's say you have a bad couple of things that happen in the morning, right? If you can actually remember it by 9:00 at night, it means you didn't work hard.
Correct. Like, I don't even remember half the stuff that happens. The more I'm like, all right, well, now I'm on to this, right? Like, just talking to—um, one of—staff members and they're like, yeah, this guy thinks you don't like him. Like—why? Like—you know, years ago he posted something and this happened, and you said—I'm like, dude, I don't even know what you're talking about. Like, I barely even know this guy. So to think that I don't like—I'm literally indifferent. Like—but people do—they live in misery.
Yes. It's like—and it's almost human nature or just how we're raised as—societ—to, you know, go to the negative.
Yeah. But it is—it's—you got to manage this day in and day out. You know—kill you. Right? But like—we—it's work. Yes, you're working your ass off; it's hard to remember what happened—hard—remember what you had for breakfast. You know what happened on your way to the—whatever the case may be—when you're not working, it's easy to sit there and it crippes people.
Yeah. It's like a chargeback. Like, people—I'm like, if you worry about one chargeback—I'm not saying like, I'm excited about them—but if you're worried about one, you don't sell enough.
Correct. At all. Yep. You sold one guy; he canceled it; and you didn't do anything after that—that's on you, bro.
Yeah. Like, absolutely. Um, you've had rollup debt, right?
Yeah.
What's the biggest rollup debt you've done with—
Um, 35 from one person.
Yeah. Yeah. Was that early on or—
Uh, two, three years ago.
Maybe three years ago. Yeah. Was—see, that's—you work—so I don't know—something happened at some point.
Yeah. I—I, you know, I went after the person with lawyers and whatever, and I think I got a payment plan and whatever, but it's part of the game. I mean, I don't think anybody's excited about it.
No.
But you also—you learn lessons, and you understand—in any business, you're going to have profit and loss; it's the way it works. Um, and would I sign up for that to make, you know, 900,000 or a million or what—you know what I mean—whatever the—the net or the gross of is my income?
Yeah.
Sure. So you netted 500k; you're like, I lost 35k on one Ro—right—and—right? You know, in the moment it sucks, but it's the same thing—all right, well, it's not—you can't put it back, right? You can't—once toothpaste out—you can't put it back. You're lucky you got a payment plan cuz most of—
Them? Do they're the guy who rolls you 30, 40, 50k in debt? Is it? Don't care about his credit or anything. You know, leans none of that [__] like he don't own anything. It's on his mom's name, his kids, whatever. So you're lucky you got anything back.
It's part of the business. Yeah. And I also look at I'm like, well, you're pathetic. So what do you want me to tell you? Like I'm I'm going to be successful, you're still going to be pathetic, right? Like, Y just being straight about it.
Absolutely. God bless you if that makes you happy to do that. Karma is going to get you, yep, eventually. And you know what? I'll I have people on my team that write annuities, and I make 35 grand on them, so like, whatever is what it is. Let's keep it moving.
Yep. How many Hall of Fame producers you think you have this year? We had last year, one. We had three. Three. I think we had three last year. I think we'll probably have six. Six, six or so.
Yeah, nice. Do a wrap-up with a little true or false, Steve. So I have a handful of just random things. These are not my opinions, by the way. It's just like it's testing you, but I'm going to wrap it fire these. You let me know if it if they are true or false in your opinion. Okay.
The best insurance agents are born, not made. Born not made. False. False. You need a large network of people to be successful in this business. True. True. A good salesman can sell anything to anyone. False. False. The best way to recruit is through social media. True. Door-to-door sales are outdated and ineffective in insurance. False. False. Sales without leads is like running through traffic blindfolded. True. Experienced agents still go through rejection. True. This is one it's impossible to be the highest producer year after year. False. It's false because you're doing it correct.
Um, but dude, I I appreciate you coming up, doing this. I really doing and appreciate you going out there kicking ass every year. I hope you are number one again, just because the belt we're working on this year, oh boy, it's going to look great in your collection, but also challenging anyone else like, dude, I love you, see, but as much as I hope you're number one, I'm kind of tired of giving you the belt, you know. You're going to have to have a whole another office just for belts. Yeah, people got sick of seeing Tom Brady. I get it.
Yeah, exactly. So you got a few more to you. I you got two more. You at Tom Brady's level, but but I mean, dude, it's awesome seeing what you're doing year in and year out, um, and you know, just talking to you, it makes sense why, and it's just I mean, it's it's the core principles that we've heard and talked about for years. It's just how much are you going to adapt them? How much are you going to I want to say concede, but like, dude, if I'm all in, I'm going to listen to everything that y'all are telling me to do.
Absolutely. And I'm going to do it. A lot of people are too smart, though. Yes. Well, that don't I don't want to do that. I that's stupid. Writing down your why and this and that and talking to your family about, why would I get on training if I? So okay, dude, you ain't number one, though. There's one person who's number one, you know. So appreciate you kicking ass every year and coming up doing this.
Absolutely. Um, you at convention, great event, right? Aw, last thing, tell these guys why they should go today and register at FFLconvention.com for next year. I mean, if you don't invest in yourself and invest in time, like if I think of all the conventions I've went to, you know, certainly we'll say early on I learned, you know, the most, right? But every time I go, there's somebody that I talk to that I take away. It's like you said with the training, I take away little things that I'm not doing and should start doing, right, or things I'm doing that I need to stop doing, and I walk away and I'm like, like that's going to make me thousands upon thousands of dollars.
Correct. And I think if you don't go, you don't have the mentality to be here, right? Meaning you don't believe in investing in you, and you're sitting here penny-pinching a hotel in 100 bucks to to register to go see people who are making millions of dollars, and they're going to actually teach you how to do it. Correct. Like you're you're not meant for this, no. So I think it's like a mentality thing, like you you have to sharpen the sword yeah on the regular, if not it's going to get dull, and you're at everything you're at night like wherever you need to be.
Yeah, I want to go. I also I I I understand my role in the company. I said this is Sean, right after convention, the ability the people that come up to me and they ask questions, and I try to just give everybody as much as I got, like people did that for me number one, and I I it's it's an honor for me for people to be like, man, like I want to do what you're doing, what do I got to do? Y and I love to give back and kind of talk to people like that, right? That's the thing, D, everybody's so accessible, like you get to these events, dude, you're walking around, anyone, hey, dude, got a question for you, you're not going, oh, don't talk to me. Like that's what we go there for.
I know it's the opposite of a lot of other conventions, but do we get up and just tell you everything? Because first of all, most people are probably not going to do it. The other thing is we're not oversaturated, dude. You know, we had like 15,000 agents get paid last year, and this year we'll probably have somewhere around 20, and we'll hit a billion. Yeah, but there's a couple million people out there with a life insurance license, so there there's enough there there's enough go around, you know.
So thanks again, guys. Thanks for watching. Um, subscribe if you haven't already. Go to FFLconvention.com now to get registered. Also, igniterevents.com um for the ignite conference in Phoenix, and then we'll have one in uh West Palm later in the year. So appreciate you all checking us out. You know where to find us every week right here in True Talk. See you next week. [Music]