Transcription
And especially when I'm in a season that seems fruitless, that there are people that God is already preparing. Yeah. To hear the gospel and respond to it. Even if I'm looking at this and saying, "All I feel like is I've got I've got slam doors on my face right now." Yeah. Like what we see with Paul's ministry. I mean, after 3 months of straight discouragement, an incredible season of harvest and fruitfulness was right on its heels. But I love telling people, you don't need my permission to say yes to the thing that Jesus commanded you to do 2,000 years ago.
Well, listeners, you're not going to believe this. It is Monday again if you're listening to it when this drops. And we're back for another episode of the Disciplemakers podcast. I'd like to look back on your intros and see the percentage of the starts that that begin with well or how many of our episodes started with well. We're back. We're back. Well, we're back. I feel like well is such a it's a great I try to start most conversations with the word well.
Me too. Well done. Well, I mean, Jesus will end things with a well done. So, surely we could start sentences with well.
Yeah. I like how you turned that right back to the gospel.
Well done, sir.
It was a Jesus juke.
Exactly. As we like to say.
All right. Well, again, in this episode, we are uh going to be jumping into Acts chapter 19. And basically guys, what we're going to be talking about is uh we're going to make some modern parallels to what Paul did in the book of Acts in chapter 19 and really just unpack that. And honestly, this is going to be a little bit of a dreaming episode of what some modern movement activity could look like in modern churches. So, uh it'll be a lot of fun. We can go back and forth and and chat through it. So, if you don't mind, Jace, I will just read it for us. Is that cool?
That's really magnanimous of you. Thank you.
No problem. This is the word of God. All right. Acts 19. Just to set the stage, Paul's in Ephesus and um he gets there and then he goes into the synagogue and this is where we're going to start. Um he has literally 12 disciples right now in Ephesus. That's it. Okay. So, I want I want us to take note of that. He's starting with 12 people. Um seems like a pretty good number.
I heard someone has precedent.
It has precedent. It has a precedent. And we're going to start in verse eight. This is what he says. Um, and he being Paul entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God. But when some became stubborn, which that never happens. When some became stubborn and continued in unbelief, speaking evil of the way before the congregation, he withdrew from them and took the disciples with him, reasoning daily in the hall of Tyrannis. And then this is my favorite verse, man. Listen to this. This continued for two years so that all the residents of Asia heard the word of the Lord, both Jews and Greeks.
Isn't that crazy?
Or a few people there.
Yeah. I mean, most scholars would say uh the lowest estimates I've seen on how many people were in Asia Minor, which is modern day Turkey for those listening. Um but the lowest estimates during that time that I've seen are 2 million people. And the highest estimates were like 15 to 20 million people. So, we're we're talking about like somewhere between two and 20 million. But let's go lowend. Let's say two million. I mean, that's the city of Indianapolis, which is actually where we're sitting and recording right now. That's literally the entire city hearing the gospel. Every household, every person, no matter where, what background they have, hearing the gospel in a two-year period. Like, that's amazing.
Yeah, it's incredible, right? Tell me, we were talking about this on the way here. Tell me about how you love how Luke just writes one sentence about this. It's so funny because you'll be reading you'll be reading the book of Acts and it's like, you know, this happened and then you'll have a long drawn out conversation. We get a lot of details. Uh the next day we did this, the next day and then all of a sudden here we are in Acts 19. Fast forward two years. Two years in one sentence. You're like, "Wow, Luke. Okay. Uh two years. Two years."
Yeah. I mean, I I I think it's incredible to see. Just imagine this season in Paul's life where he digs in for two years on a daily basis. He doesn't dig in for two years and it's not working. Yeah. He's digging in for two years and it is a season of fruitfulness, a season of advancement. And I and I absolutely love that those two years come on the tail of three months of of pure frustration.
Yeah. Uh I can only imagine how how upset, how angry even he was. This dude uh and how did he sleep those at night those three months where he's uh thinking about how can I talk to these guys? How can I convince them? How can I get through to them? Just running into wall after wall after wall at the synagogue before he finally says, "What am I doing here?"
Yeah. Meanwhile, there's two million plus people whose ears were ready to hear.
Yeah. Absolutely, man. Incredible.
Oh, it's beautiful. And honestly, I was imagining, you know, when Luke was like interviewing Paul about this, he's like, "So, tell me what happened in Ephesus, Paul." And he's going through all these stories and then and then Luke just writes one sentence about it. Like, so he did this same thing for two years and the whole region was saturated with the gospel. Let's move on to the next city. Like, it's like, okay, like I'd like to know a little bit about what he was doing, right? Um because really it is unprecedented in the book of Acts to see that many people in such a short amount of time hear the gospel. I mean there are some miraculous stories and incredible stories in the book of Acts. But I don't know that there's any other stories like this where an entire region like that was absolutely saturated with the gospel.
Well, it sounds it sounds like Samaria.
Yeah. Uh early on. And again, another unlikely source for me. there's this thing that I'm I'm clinging to cuz I find that when I am and it doesn't even matter what job I'm doing, but if I'm if I'm working at something and I can see some progress or even grasp the hope of progress, I'm going to I'm going to toil a little bit differently. I'm going to dig in a little bit more. I It's when I'm like never getting anywhere that I tend to get despondent and want to give up.
Yeah. And so I I I'm just amazed by this because Samaria there's a very unlikely and you would think at the time that the most fruitful place for receiving the gospel of Jesus would have been the synagogue would have been. They're reasoning right out of the Old Testament scriptures. They're bringing all of these truths from the prophets saying he did this, he did this, he did this, he did this. And they're not saying he did this 2,000 years ago. They're saying he did this recently. we've witnessed or we know people who have witnessed the very things he promised he would do and they're not getting anywhere.
Yeah. And I I think for anybody that is in that moment because I I am certain that there are plenty of people that are passionate about this mission, passionate enough to even like, hey, I'm going to listen to a podcast uh from a couple of dorks. Uh hey, one dork at least.
Yes. Yes. One one dork. And then as you would always say um one dork and a mega church pastor.
Boy, there it is. It has to come out in every episode. I guess I was asking for that one. Um, man, I I need to remember that even and especially when I'm in a season that seems fruitless, that there are people that God is already preparing. Yeah. to hear the gospel and respond to it. Even if I'm looking at this and saying, "All I feel like is is I' I've got I've got slam doors on my face right now." Yeah. There's Paul for three months getting nowhere in the synagogue and there are literally millions waiting to receive this word. How powerful is that?
Oh, and what an encouragement, you know, to all of you listening right now. And you know, I know there's some people out there right now that are listening that you're going through a season of discouragement. Man, you're hitting wall after wall like Jace was just talking about. you're you're beginning to um get frustrated and upset and maybe even getting to a point where you want to give up. And this is what I want to tell you, man. The harvest is ready. And so, don't don't waste time um with a group of people that are continuing to push hard against you. begin to look outside of the walls of where you currently are and begin to look for those that are ripe and ready to receive the gospel because there are people out there that are ready to go. Um, and so like what we see with Paul's ministry, I mean, after 3 months of straight discouragement, um, an incredible season of harvest and fruitfulness was right on its heels. And I mean, I've seen over and over again throughout my life when seasons of discouragement come and difficulty, a lot of times God is preparing something for uh future harvest or future power, future influence. And so, I just want to encourage you if you're going through that season of discouragement, man, fruitfulness is coming on the other side. And uh the Lord wants to do something really special, man.
That's fantastic word, dude.
Well, let's see. It's a fantastic word, but it's it's fighting with hope, right? Let's have some hope that Amen. Because here's the problem. I I find that when I'm when I'm trying to when I'm trying to make it happen, there is this this foolish this foolish temptation that I think I could convince anybody. I could do this well enough, deliver it well enough, live it well enough that anybody I could, man, I could talk anybody. I could sell this to anybody. Uh and the truth is that's that's not the case at all. That's not at all how the heart moves. Uh we've been entrusted with the gospel. We hold it up with with integrity, with with fidelity. We live it out uh to the best of our abilities. But all the while, it's the power of the Holy Spirit that's moving this forward, that's opening up hearts. And so, man, I I I think that we we fear failure. We fear we fear the three months in the synagogue type of stuff. That's like the worst nightmare for so many folks uh that are out to please people. uh meanwhile knowing like man you got to just keep uh abundantly. It's that that same principle of abundant seed sowing. Um and they got there, man. What an incredible thing.
Absolutely, man. Well, let's shift gears for a second. What I want to do is I want to take this story in Acts 19 and for the the rest of the time that we have together, I want to create a modern parallel. And uh th this isn't necessarily a um you know an exact um it's not going to be an exact parallel, but um so Paul was in the synagogue, right? And then was basically kicked out and rented this hall from a guy named Tyrannis and was meeting there every day and apparently multiplying and sending out disciples so much so that this entire region was saturated. And so my imagination goes, man, what was he doing in the hall every single day with these disciples in order to launch them out so that they could see an entire region saturated with the gospel? And so the modern parallel that I want to make is whether we like it or not, and I don't mean this in a in a negative way. I hope this doesn't come across in a in a terribly negative way. It's a beautiful caveat there. It may it may come across to something. There's a slight possibility. There's a slight possibility I may offend you right now. Shut off the podcast. Here it goes. Uh but um the modern church is definitely a lot more like a synagogue model. Um it is a building with a rabbi up front and a place that people come once a week in order to hear from that rabbi and get the teaching for the week and then they go on about their business and and things like that. So again, not saying that that is bad, but it is really much like a synagogue model. It's it's not bad, but it is limited.
It is limited.
Yes. Um and then the Hall of Tier, I imagine it being these like the people who actually believed over here in the synagogue, the ones that were really ready to be a true disciple of Jesus and go hard after it. Paul took them aside and began to train, equip them, and release them and drew other people in to do the same thing so that they could saturate a city. Um, here's the parallel I want to make there. Here, one major issue we find all across America is that if there are people like that, if there are disciples who are on fire that are ready to give it all they have, they're ready to consecrate their lives to Jesus. They are sick of the status quo. They want to wage war on lukewarm Christianity and man, they just want to go allin with Jesus. The traditional church paradigm most of the time does not give a pathway for people like that. Like if if there are people that are really hungry for a radical lifestyle for Jesus, they most of the time have to find an answer to that outside of the traditional church pathway. They need to find some parurch ministry or some other group or or some group of people to run after. And so here's the question I want to present and for us to talk about. I wonder what it would look like if attached to our current synagogue models of ministry if we attached to that a parallel track that is like a hall of tyrannist style thing where we give space to the people that are really running wanting to run after it. We help train them equip them release them and that's not going to be for everybody. It will be for a minority of people probably within the church, but it will give a pathway for people so that we could literally see cities saturated with the gospel. I mean, that's what I'm dreaming about right now. And uh love your thoughts on it, dude.
And the measuring so the outcome being we want to see a city saturated with the gospel saturation.
Yeah. And it begs the question, we've been doing what we've been doing for a long time.
Yeah. When it comes to synagogue models,
Yeah. at the church and I'm one who is is quick to come back to this this reality over and over again that it is not devoid of value. I think it's something that's really important. I I think it's important for us to remember that God has been moving through that and it's still bearing fruit.
Yes. And that's not because we're awesome.
Yeah. That's because God is that good, that gracious that in many ways we have neglected his mission and ignored the commands of Jesus, especially a command that he gives with all authority in heaven on earth to make disciples. We've ignored it literally for generations. And God is still blessed. God has still uh brought one generation to another. Uh but it it it does beg the question, could we say that our cities are saturated with the gospel? I I don't know of anybody that could say that. Now, maybe there's some pocket somewhere where people say, "Man, we've really seen it at our high school," or, "Man, there's something happening on my campus." And in all reality, those are probably the places where those sparks are going to take place first where we're going to we're going to find a a hall of tear in those uh in those settings. But it begs the question, if that has not if what we're doing so far has not saturated our cities with the gospel, why would be we be resistant to this?
Yeah. Right. Cuz I don't think that this is in opposition to the church.
Not at all. No, it is it is a part of the church. The question becomes, how do you do something like that? And I find that lots of people I and I think they do this out of respect and out of a will to make sure that they're not gonna mess something up or go where they shouldn't go. People oftentimes, and I'm, you know, I'm a I'm a pastor of a church.
Yeah. They want my permission to do some of these things.
Yeah, absolutely. And in some ways, like I can understand in some circumstances that if we're going to have like a more specific partnership with the church that we're going to be promoting something or whatever that it would make s of course we need to sign off on this. But I love telling people you don't need my permission to say yes to the thing that Jesus commanded you to do 2,000 years ago.
Yeah. Absolutely. And if you're waiting for my permission
Yeah. you respect me too much.
Yeah. You're putting me in the wrong place and I don't want to sit there.
Yeah. Uh so this is not an opposition to the church. So don't feel like you're doing something that somehow uh makes you a rogue element uh in your fellowship. This is something that is actually going to take the things that we love and know and give them some give them some thrust to actually get somewhere.
Yeah, that's good. There's a there's a principle that people talk about within the movement space like the disciplem movement, church planting movement space that if if you really want to be a church that is seeing movement and multiplication. One of the principles they talk about a lot is releasing the radicals. Um and the idea is that you are going to have a remnant of people in your church that man they are on fire. They are ready to do something for Jesus. They are ready to go allin like the type of people we were just talking about a few minutes ago. and giving those people space to run and releasing them out into the community and blessing them as missionaries. I mean, listen, um I know churches all over the country that would love to lay hands on people in their church and send them to India or send them to China or send them to Europe somewhere. Uh what would it look like if we did that same thing with our people where we laid hands on them and said, "Listen, I know you feel called to stay here. Um, and so we're going to lay hands on you and bless you to be missionaries in the community. So go out and do it. Like I've I've got one buddy that leads a church that does that regularly. He launches missionaries out into their city into different neighborhoods and pockets in order to try to see saturation happen. And he has the same expectations from them as he does missionaries overseas. He goes, "Listen, I don't expect my missionaries in India to attend church here every Sunday. like uh that would be crazy for them to fly over here every weekend and go back. And so if you're able to start some sort of community in that neighborhood or in your home and you're able to meet on a Sunday, great. Just come in every now and then. We'll invite you in to give an update on what the Lord is doing. And so we're going to see you as a missionary in our city. We're going to bless you, support you, encourage you, release you. I mean, I I imagine that that would be something kind of like a hall of tier idea, right? Um because a lot of times Jace right now in America a lot of people are thrown around the term of like a hybrid, right? Like a hybrid church. How do we how do we keep some of the traditional elements of church but still have movements of multiplication within them? And so they use this hybrid analogy um which they take it from the car industry, right? Like a hybrid engine. But the truth is most of us across America, man, are not willing at this point to deconstruct our current engine enough to make an actual hybrid engine. Because a hybrid engine is a gas powered and electric powered engine, completely deconstructed and then reconstructed to be one engine working together. You know what I'm saying?
Your engineering prowess is whatever astounding.
That's hilarious. I know everything there is to know about hybrid engines. I drive a hybrid. I have a Toyota Prius. I know what I'm doing here. Um, but my point is most churches when they say hybrid, at best they've duct taped an electric engine on the outside of their gas powered vehicle. That's like it's not it.
Maybe maybe taped a battery to the hood of the car.
Exactly. Taped a battery to the hood. Or
At worse, they have like some diesel-powered engine, and they've slapped a Tesla sticker on the back window, you know, and they call it hybrid. Oh, Discovery Bible study. We'll put that in our powered car—like 60 miles to the gallon.
So, um, so my point is, most of us are not quite ready, man, to fully reconstruct our systems to make them fully hybrid. But what we can do—if this Hall of Tyrannus idea is like a parallel track or a parallel engine—what would it look like to have a full-blown movement engine running alongside of your current engine that you're running at your church? Then you don't have to deconstruct what's going on over here. You can basically funnel people from that into whatever movement system you create on the side and release them and let them run, man. Give them space to play.
Yeah. Paul didn't, uh, bulldoze the synagogue to do this. Wouldn't that have been awesome? Oh, man.
Yeah. Right. Luke's like, "Okay, tell me more. Tell me where to get every detail now." I'm sure it would have been more than one sentence if Paul would have bulldozed the synagogue. Bulldozed the synagogue. And then they were there for two years, right?
Oh, great. Wow.
Yeah. Right. Fairly benign.
Absolutely. Absolutely. It's, uh, but again, it's so funny because I I wonder what it was like for the people that were observing this movement burgeoning right in front of them when it very much outgrew the synagogue.
Yeah, absolutely. Totally like way, way crazy, right? Like, oh, okay, so it's working, right? Many of them though would have resisted.
Yeah, you know, and I and so this is what I think is great for us, you know, when we're comparing because every analogy has this breakdown. Obviously, we're talking about the, you know, the a modern church compared to a synagogue. My hope is that we're not going to see like—I I think of—I'll I'll talk about our church. If something happened that was a parallel track that was so fantastically effective that within two years it reached our entire city and outgrew our church—
Yeah. Immensely.
Yeah. I don't think our church would look at this and go, "Oh, what a bummer. What a failure." They would look at—go, "Wow, Lord, that's amazing." And then they would also say, "I'm so glad that we got got to be a part of launching and sending this." And I'll bet you chances are we probably benefited from it as well.
Absolutely, man. Let's let's put our let's put our, you know, church leader hat on for a second, Jace.
Okay. What would—It's like a big tall bishop's hat.
Yeah, like the like the Pope hats. One of those big ones. Um, let's put on that for a second. What as as a church leader, what would make you hesitate? Like if you if you're only thinking through that lens, right? What would be the hesitation to creating like a like a parallel track like this? What do you think some of the dangers or the uh fears are of creating something like that?
Yeah, I think that we tend to at our at our best worry that maybe we're going to see bad doctrine multiplied. Okay. Um, or um, you know, and I think those tend to come from good motivations, right? um because we wouldn't want to multiply something cancerous, right? Um, and so there's fear in that. And then sometimes we think the antidote to that is is a higher degree of control. And I'll prevent this. I want I want fire and I kind of want wildfire, but I want it contained.
Yeah. Uh, so I can we both of those, right? We've talked about this before. I had a movement mentor early on in my in our movement in India um who said, "Josh, you can either have control or you can have a movement of God. You need to pick one, right?"
Oh, boy.
And uh and that's so true, man. Like we and and a lot of times the intention of that control we're talking about um at our best moments, it comes out of a very good intentioned heart of wanting it to be stewarded well and wanting it to go well, but sometimes we we hold on a little too tight.
Well, it's it's you read 1 John 2 talking about the anointing from the Holy One. He says, "You've been—you don't even need anybody to teach you. You have the Holy Spirit to teach you." And I think there are many pockets of Christianity in the world today that would go, "Um, I don't know about that. Like that seems a little scary. We need to maybe get involved just a little bit more." And so I'm I don't think we're saying be irresponsible, right? We're not saying throw all caution to the wind. Um, but man, I I think that to have an ambition for something that we would say—and I because I would say this of my own children—
Um, I hope you take this farther than me. Yeah. I hope that your life and your ministry is more fruitful than mine. And so I would say that not just for my children, but for anybody I'm discipling. I hope that among the people that I get to pour my life into that there are people that in every way are measurably and discernably better at things, more fruitful at things, uh whether it's like stuff that I love to do like preaching, u or or even more importantly uh the effectiveness of the missions movement. Yeah. Uh more people won for the Lord, the kingdom's advancement happening more. Uh why would I want to pull back on that?
So he does—he doesn't want to bulldoze the synagogue. Yeah. Uh, he he brings something that is that is fulfilling for us, fulfilling the things that we're hoping to see happen. Yeah. And if God's going to raise somebody up that um that I would get in the way of, and that happens.
Yep. That happens where inadvertently I would stand in the way of somebody that uh that God is ready to move and advance forward. Uh, man, I I'd rather get swept up in that.
Yeah. Uh and whether that means uh
Yeah. Well, maybe I don't get the credit for it then.
Yeah. Uh but you know who noticed it. The Lord's going to know.
Yeah. Right. He's going to know either way. Yeah, you got in the way of what I wanted to do and I had to move you out of the way. I had to move around you. Um, or uh or you you bless something that my hand was on and I want to be that person.
Yeah. Uh parallel track. It's I feel like there's something beautiful about that.
Yeah. Uh because it doesn't have to be in competition, right? And then it doesn't have to be in competition. And then what I love about it, um, because honestly I think with the current state of the church in America, a parallel track model is one of the best bets we currently have to really get movement traction in our churches and in our cities without having to blow up the the current model.
Well, the only people that are concerned about some kind of competition in this are pastors. And so like I don't know anybody at my church at my church, right? They—it's the Lord's church. I don't know anybody there that would be upset like personally like, "Oh, I cannot believe this thing has outpaced what we've been doing." The only person that will be tempted to be upset about it would be the leadership. And that's only if we're building our own kingdom.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's and I think that's the temptation, man. Sometimes with—I know for me, unintentionally, I get to a part where I'm like beginning to build my little k kingdom over God's big K kingdom.
Pathetic.
Yeah. Right. Pathetic.
Yeah. No, I know you've never done that.
Never. But I've done that.
Wow. Um, and uh, you know, because the the truth is, man, it's so easy to get just so dialed in to like our little our little kingdoms and our little c churches that, man, there—like we would be content, you know, in a church where—let's say we had 20% 30% even 40% more baptisms this next year, but lostness in our city was growing faster than what we're keeping up with. And we'd be celebrating the the more baptisms we're getting, but not understanding that there's more lost people in our city next year than there's ever been in the history of that city. Do you get what I'm saying? And so, it's like, man, we we have got to have the big K kingdom above everything. And so, I I'd like to look out and just for the church leaders out there, those that are on staff, man, I want to encourage you like God has a massive vision for your city and for your place. He wants to saturate every neighborhood, every school, every place with his gospel. And he wants his kingdom to spread way more than he wants our churches like individually to spread. And so what would it look like if if you put a vision up on the wall that literally is about saturating your city with the gospel even if your church doesn't get the credit, even if you personally are not involved in it, would—would could we be content and could we celebrate if something happened like what happened in Ephesus where it just multiplied across our city? Would we be content that if if if we weren't the one that our name was on it or if we didn't get credit for it and it wasn't our brand or our name that was attached to it, but the kingdom was actually spreading and multiplying so much so that an entire city is transformed. I mean, I think that's beautiful. It's an incredible thing, right?
Um, and then I I'd also say, Jason, would you mind taking a moment and just speaking to those listening that aren't leading churches? They're not—like if if they're longing for what we're talking about—if if maybe they're one of those radicals or one of those people that—man, they're just ready to give it all they have. Um, how would you encourage them to start? Let's say if they maybe don't have a church that yet has this vision, they don't feel like they've got space to run. How would you encourage them to go ahead and step out and give it a go?
Yeah, there is this tendency to look—we look out at the end because we read the text, right? Man, the the entire region. Yeah. And everybody in Asia Minor is is has heard the word of the Lord. And so we go, okay, that's that's where we got to get. We got to get to that place and we got to get there right now.
Right.
Um, it took two years and that was all they were doing.
Yeah. Yeah. It says every day Paul was in the hall training and equipping daily reasoning with them. And so I would say uh on a couple sides of this—uh you don't start with 2 million. And so don't be discouraged uh by a small beginning. You're going to do this one at a time. And I I I love I love love love the the notion and I think we're seeing this more and more in the culture of of American churches in discipleship where we have leaned into uh big rooms and—oh, man, we got to have small groups—so maybe it's 10 or 12 or 15—boy, living room's getting full, you know, we got 20 people—maybe we have to make two groups now—that though there is an effectiveness in those things but there is finally opening up this this pathway and culture that says, "Man, this is ones, twos, and threes."
Yeah. And that seems so much more manageable.
Yeah. It seems like the the investments can be so much more significant. 'Cause I really can get to know one or two or three.
Yeah. And we actually can talk about our lives and walk through these things. And and what I love about this is that they daily reasoned with them. There is this burgeoning desire in our culture and you see it happening more and more where where people are willing to reason about things. I I think regardless of where you are on on the political spectrum that the the hair-pulling insanity mode for somebody to step in and go, "Can we maybe be reasonable? Uh, can we reason together?" Not uh not looking for one-liner hot takes that we can make a YouTube reel of and go, "Oh, look at all the gotchas. Look at all the fools on the other side."
Um, that'll be turned into a one-minute reel, by the way, what you just said. Perfect. We'll make sure we can square somebody up with a with a gotcha.
Um, I think that there is something really profoundly beautiful about reasoning out—why am I so interested in Jesus? Why am I so dedicated to living for him and sharing this with other people? And and I I think this would deserve its own conversation at some point. How do we reason with someone? Because you can't argue them into the gospel. Uh, but man, even the Lord of the Old Testament, "Come now and let us reason together." That is that is a godly thing to do. And it's the way he interacts with us. And so I I would I would start—start small and be okay with that—with an intention of multiplication.
Yeah. Imagine winning somebody with the intent that when you practice this, it isn't just ascent to a set of ideas about Jesus. It is with the intent of practicing those things.
Yeah. And so it is to do it—to believe it is actually to live it out. And I love this about uh the Indian context right now among other places—to be a Christian is to make disciples. Like there's no distinction. It is a seamless thing. And so start small and and and make those quality investments in people. Uh and then and then actually have some confidence in our ability to reason.
Yeah. With other people with regard to things that seem potentially unreasonable—like eternal life, uh like the resurrection of Jesus. Be prepared to give a reason for your faith in those things. And I love to do that because it's not like we're saying, "Well, I just believe and I don't have any good reason to believe." Head to a funeral sometime and experience what it's like uh for us to mourn, not as those without hope, as Paul says, that we mourn differently. I find it way more reasonable uh that we're going to live than that we're going to die. And one of the reasons for that is every single fiber of my being not only wants to survive uh but wants to live and continue to live for a long time. I'm not done loving yet. I I never imagine getting to a point where I've said, you know, "I think I've had enough of loving my wife Britney or my children or my friends." Um, I've been I've been designed to keep going—in that my brain's capacity even has far more ability to remember for far longer uh than we could even imagine. Uh so why why why isn't living reasonable? Dying is the unreasonable thing.
Yeah. No, that's good, man. That's beautiful.
Well, let's uh I at the very end here, guys, here's what I want to do. I want to I want to tell you about a couple opportunities and then I want to read a vision document that uh we created here locally just to cast vision for what the Hall of Tier could be. And I want to read that at the end so that it could hopefully bring you some inspiration. If anybody wants a copy of this, shoot me an email. I'd be glad to. Uh you can email us at uh at josh@discipleship.org and uh I'd be glad to send it over to you. Um, or you could reach out to us on our website. But here's here's two quick opportunities and I'm going to read this to you. Number one is this. Um, we've got partners that would love to come help train you on how to actually live this out. And so if your if your heart was burning as you were listening to Jason on on this—is this is how you can get started as a disciplemaker—um, then man we would love to come alongside of you and help you and help empower you to live this out. And so please reach out to us. We would be more than happy to help in any way we can. And secondly, discipleship.org and renew.org are doing a combined learning community that's going to be starting here in the next couple of months uh that is all about helping churches create this parallel track strategy. And so we're looking for church leaders and their teams who would go through this together. You'll go through it with other uh churches and church leaders. And so it'll be a whole cohort. It it'll it'll take a year to go through, but we're basically going to help you think through and strategize how to build out this parallel track Hall of Tier strategy for your church. So if you're interested in that, definitely contact us at discipleship.org and we would absolutely love to help you.
Um, but let's end with this. I'm just going to read this out loud and then we'll uh close up the uh this episode, but this is kind of this Hall of Tier vision. Okay.
Um, reviving the region, releasing the saints, reaching the nations. What if—what if there was a place, not just a building, but a movement where everyday believers were awakened, equipped, and released into their God-given calling? What if the church in our region stopped settling for weekend attendance and started functioning like a kingdom army, active, mobilized, and multiplying? What if the modern-day Hall of Tyrannus became the training ground for regional awakening? In Acts 19, the Apostle Paul left the synagogue and began daily training in the Hall of Tyrannus. It wasn't a church service. It was a discipleship engine, a furnace, a movement incubator. And the result, we've been talking about it the whole time, all the residents of Asia, heard the word of the Lord. In just two years, an entire region, modern-day Turkey, was saturated with the gospel. Not through one man preaching every Sunday, but through many trained and sent. And this is the vision for Hall of Tyrannus 2.0. Know daily discipleship, deep formation, regional saturation. We love the church. We honor the local church, but we also see the limits of the traditional synagogue model. A building, a weekly gathering, a single rabbi or pastor, and a crowd of passive listeners. That's not how movements are born. Paul didn't abandon the synagogue. He complemented it. He launched a parallel track. Where the synagogue gathered the faithful, the Hall of Tyrannus trained the radical. Where the synagogue preserved tradition, the Hall of Tyrannus sparked transformation. Where the synagogue centered on one teacher, the Hall of Tyrannus raised up hundreds. This is not either/or. It's both. And we need the pulpit and the practicum. The weekend gathering and the daily training, the temple and the tents. Imagine, just imagine a weekly gathering of serious disciples, hungry, teachable, and on fire. A rhythm of intensive training, prayer, and fasting, and spiritual activation. A culture where every believer sees themselves as a missionary sent into neighborhoods, campuses, workplaces, and cities. Imagine disciplemakers multiplying. Disciplemakers, communities starting new communities, and the gospel moving faster than buildings can hold. A network of halls of Tyrannus springing up in garages, coffee shops, gyms, living rooms across cities, campuses, and regions. This isn't a brand. It's not a new church. It's a fire line. It's a training ground. It's a launchpad for revival. If one hall of Tyrannus reached all of Asia Minor in two years, what could God do through a network of halls of Tyrannus across our region where every believer's mobilized, every neighborhood's reached, every school and workplace saturated, every church awakened and activated, every lost soul given a chance to see, hear and respond to the gospel of Jesus. This is how regions get revived. This is how nations get discipled. And this is how the great commission gets completed.
Come on, somebody. Amen to that, dude. And so, guys, listen. If this is—if your heart burns as we talk about this, like we want to come alongside of you, man. The Lord is stirring something fresh in America right now. He's stirring something fresh across the nations, and we would love to come help you spark this, set it on fire, and help you build it and create it. And so, friends, we're in your corner. We love you and we cannot wait to see what the Lord's going to do. Reach out to us and we'd be glad to help. God bless you guys and we'll see you next time. [Music]