Transcription
"Foreign good, how are you?"
"Good man, life going okay. Uh, been better, but it's going all right. So what's up, dude?"
"Uh, so I am having issues with my family. Uh, I put up some boundaries with them, tried to be as clear as possible because it seemed like they're respecting them. And I'm kind of at the point where I'm wondering if it's a relationship I should cut out of my life."
"Oh man, so tell me about it. How old are you?"
"How old are you?"
"Uh, I'm 35."
"Wow, okay, 35. All right, so tell me about it."
"Yeah, so, uh, growing up, kind of like a turbulent household. Uh, older brother has some behavioral issues, like, uh, um, a diagnosed behavioral issue issues. Uh, family did the best they could. Uh, definitely kind of work, had some impact on me with like, cops being called the house constantly, um, yelling, kind of like a turbulent household. Uh, fast forward college, the house took a little bit of a breather from everybody and realized that it wasn't really a healthy environment where everybody was come leaning on me to be the normal grounding mechanism, and I was the child. It was the youngest person in the house, like, good margin. Um, and I need to kind of like not take that weight on. Uh, and fast forward to mid-30s now, and older brother has a kid, uh, kind of in this weird co-parity relationship with my parents. Same turbulent activity, but with a child that I kind of see myself in. And I've asked them to kind of like leave me out of that relationship. Like, I just, I can't be their, their therapist to talk about how my brother treats my parents, my parents treat my brother, and also kind of seeing like the same trauma being impacted on a child that I experienced as a kid."
"Gotcha. So in the nerd world, we call it triangulation. Sounds like you're getting brought in as you're being used by the other two parties as a, as fuel to the fire that they're casting at the other party, right? So your parents call you to tell you about what your brother's doing, your brother calls you and tells you what your parents are doing, and the whole time you're watching this little child just thinking, just get at it, run, run, run, run, run, right?"
"Yeah, and the same behavioral issues from when I was a kid. So it's like, oh, they're screaming in the house and they're fighting over."
"So how does this, how does this impact you? You said you put up some boundaries and in your families violating them. What does that mean?"
"So for me, it's like, hey, I can't be your therapist. I don't want to have every conversation we have be about this. And when every time that we get together, it's, 'Oh, why can't you be more involved with us as a family as well?' Because it's toxic, and I don't really want to go back to where I was when I was 12."
"Right. Uh, are you married? Do you have kids?"
"Oh, no."
"Okay. Um, I guess the question I want to ask you, man, if we were just, if we were sitting there in San Antonio sharing a meal, I, I would, I would just want to know at 35, why are you still letting your parents have any influence in your life whatsoever at all?"
"It's more either I have a relationship with them or don't. And it's accept that, accept that you've been propping up their most, them emotionally for your whole life. And so they don't want a relationship with you, they want to extract and use you. And so it's not you that's giving up this relationship, it's you that keeps going into this predatory, they're trying to take your soul like a Harry Potter Dementor. It's just not a matter of, of keeping up the relationship. They have, they have ended that part. What you have to decide is, do I want to keep showing up in some sort of facade and some sort of mirage where we're all in the same room together, even though I'm not even here? Because my 12-year-old self recognizes this toxicity and he's, were you just disassociated? We checked out. And then I gotta roll my eyes when Dad starts complaining about brother, and then I gotta stare at the floor when brother starts complaining about Mom. You see what I'm saying? This isn't a relationship."
"And then I guess, like, the second question is like, how do I kind of come to terms with, like, you can let him go about it?"
"Really, what I would hope for, it really, really hurts. It really, really hurts because it shouldn't be like this. It shouldn't have been like this for a long, long time. And my guess is that you've got a level of exhaustion running underneath your machine because you've been trying to keep this thing held together for your whole life. And 12-year-olds think they can do it. By the time they get to be 35, they realize they can't, but they try anyway."
"Have you sat down in this, that this thing's over?"
"Yeah, I think I've been kind of like boarding it in a way for the past, like, year or so."
"Yeah, here's the two big things you got to do. The first thing is you have to take care of that little boy. It's still working. And you've heard me say this on the show a million times, and I'll say it a million more. That little 12-year-old boy that is still asking the question at the age of 35, 'Why won't you just be my dad? Why won't you just be my mom? Like, why do I have to do jump through so many hoops and do so much work for y'all to love me?' And that kid's, the kid's exhausted, and that's not his job. And so you're gonna have to at some point, whether it's you get with a therapist and go on a rabbit hole with bodywork and all that kind of stuff, or you sit down and for the next, I don't know, 90 days, once a week, you write that kid a letter. Just say, 'Dear 12-year-old Carlos, remember that time,' fill in the blank, 'and then brother came home high and Dad hit me, hit you. That wasn't your fault. That's cause Dad didn't know what he was doing with brother, and brother was out of control. And I'm so sorry that no one would there to protect you.' And the next week, 'Dear Carlos, remember that time? I just want you to know when you become 35, things are going to be different.' And that's the first part of this thing. The second part of this thing, I think, is equally, if not more challenging, is you're going to have to find new adult relationships to plug into because you cannot do life by yourself."
"And that's the worst, man. Are you a pretty lonely guy?"
"Uh, no, I've got a pretty strong friend group, but like chosen family."
"There you go. Um, I would even suggest marking that some sort of event. When I say event, I don't mean like renting out a stadium or something at the Alamodome, but I mean like having people over and saying, 'Henceforth, y'all are my family.' And looking people in the eye and saying, 'I'm gonna call you at 2 AM when things get sideways, and when I start dating somebody, I'm gonna call you, and when I get scared about my future, I'm gonna call you.' Right? Just, just go around the room, but you'll have something that you can go back and mark as the moment."
"Um, what's your biggest fear about just stop and return phone calls?"
"Can you objectively see they left you?"
"Yeah."
"Yeah. And just how unhealthy it's been?"
"Yeah."
"For whatever it's worth, Carlos, you're worth relationships that you can pour into and there's not a bunch of holes in the bottom of the pitcher. And you're worth relationships that people pour into you and they don't use you to prop themselves up, but they are with you because you're, they're your friend. But all this angst, man, how about this? What if you just tried it in a graduated way? You said, 'Hey, once a month, I'm, I'm only gonna swing by once a month. I'm gonna stay for 30 minutes.' By the way, let me circle back real quick. Some of your boundaries, like, 'Hey, I've told them I don't want to talk about them all the time. I don't talk about brother all the time, or I don't want to talk, always be talking about Mom and Dad.' Make your boundaries a little more firm. 'I will not discuss my brother with you, period.' When you choose to start talking about brother, I am going to choose to walk out of the room because you are telling me you no longer want me in here by bringing that up. 'Hey, brother, I refuse to talk about Mom and Dad with you anymore. I love you. We can talk about, you know, whatever sports we're hanging out, whatever. I'm not, I refuse to talk about this with you, 100%.' So every time you bring up Mom and Dad, that's like you saying, 'Hey, get out of here, Carlos. I don't want to talk to you.' So there's that. Uh, make those boundaries super firm. But I would slowly start, um, not even slowly, I would rather abruptly start pulling this thing apart. Instead of going over there every week, I'm gonna go over once a month. And they're gonna give you the, 'Oh, you too good? Why aren't you coming over anymore? We miss you. Why aren't you over here?' Yeah, I'm gonna, I was hanging out with my buddies. I've got some stuff at work to do. I don't want to be a part of all this drama and chaos. Um, because y'all are, y'all are choosing it to be like this, and I'm choosing to not be in this mess."
"Those conversations will be hard. And make no mistake, when you have true, firm, strong boundaries, people will start trying to smash them just to knock him down because they're an affront to other people. Um, hold firm. Hold firm. Little 12-year-old Carlos has been waiting for this moment for a long time. And now it's time for 35-year-old Carlos to let that boy go run and play. He's been being adult for way too long. Let him go. And it's time for you, 35-year-old Carlos, to say, 'What am I gonna do now? What am I gonna do next?'"