Transcription
Anybody in here heard the five-fold or fivefold ministry? Josh, here we got some. We work your way across the room this way, Charles. No, no, start with Josh. Work your way this way.
>> So, I I don't remember all of them, but it's evangelism, disciplehip, apost you're on track, right? That's what apostle, prophet, evangelist, >> pastor, teacher. That's considered fivefold. I want to hear what y'all what y'all understanding of it is though. Uh go ahead and go come over these guys. Raise your hand if you had raised your hand a second ago. There you go. You got a guy in the back row and then these two guys.
>> What was the question?
>> What is your understanding of fivefold or fivefold ministry?
>> Um
>> if you don't have one, it's okay.
>> Okay. No, I don't know.
>> Okay. Get with John and uh and and Roger. It's kind of like um like where you in the kingdom, you can kind of maybe God gives us certain gifts and anointings to work in a specific field of like maybe it's easier for you to be sharing the gospel. So you can be like a evangelist or maybe if it's pastoral. I think just God gives us these gifts and and it's like our way of using our gifts in the ministry. That's what I think.
>> That that's a that's a great beginning of an understanding. I love that you said that because it allows us to expand on that a lot. What you got, Roger?
>> Uh I was just going to say it's just the different roles that that everybody plays a part in to help build up his people, the church. And
>> perfect. So the combination of those two is a pretty good basic understanding. I want to dive in. So, so in scripture primarily Ephesians 4, that's where we're going to be at on page uh 187. In this book, guys, look in this book, all the scriptures already there. So, on page 187, we have Ephesians 4. And uh the reason why this is important is because I believe that everyone that comes through these doors has a very specific call on their life that that you were have been snatched from the gates of hell. I I look at scripture and I see the woman at the well becoming the first evangelist, right? She went back and told her city, the city in Samaria, and everything that there's a man that told me everything I'd ever done. And so the next time they go to come through there, everybody's ready for him. You you know what I'm saying? There's the dude that's beating people out their clothes and he cast the demons into the pigs, right? And and then that guy the next time they come, they kick him out. in they they asked Jesus to leave because the way they made their money was from from swine. But but the next time they're they're prepared for him to come. So you see that this equipping that happens specifically through Christ. And I believe I believe that everyone in this room has been grabbed and you're being specifically equipped through Christ. I say Christ for a reason, right? We talk about spiritual gifts all the time, but there's gifts given according to the spirit, right? You've heard of it. Word of knowledge, wisdom, a gift of faith, uh prophecy, speaking in tongues, like all of that. It talks about that in different books about excuse me, that was got to hate those burps. Uh so I lost my whole train of thought. Wow. Uh so anyway it talks about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Forgive me online people for being you know human. Uh those gifts are different than the gifts given by Christ. And it talks very specifically what those gifts are that are given by Christ because that's what the five-fold ministry is. There's gifts given by Christ according to grace. It's the only time it says this in scripture and it's apostle, evangelist, apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor or preacher and teacher. And it's given for one purpose. It's for the equipping of the saints so that we can build be built up to the fullness of the stature of Christ Jesus. So the reason why I didn't even know when I came believer, I didn't know people argued whether or not gifts were still real or the Holy Spirit was real or I didn't. I just always assume we read the Bible and what's in the Bible is what we take as truth and then we don't you know we're not trying to move add or change and we take it from there and then we serve a God that speaks and he's going to add to it as he speaks to our heart and the whole goal that we would do this and share this isn't to build up our own image but to build up the kingdom. That was my assumption. But there is so much division over this topic. And what I would say is the reason why I don't think this has gone away is cuz I've never seen the world reach the fullness and stature of Christ Jesus.
Oh, you're good. So, uh, I'm going to start. I'm going to pray for us real quick. I'm going to pray really good cuz I have a bad headache. I have a crazy sinus headache. And, uh, anybody else have an allergy problems? Has everybody I ordered that big deal allerg allergy medicine. Are y'all taking that?
>> Yeah.
>> So, it's it's meant to be taken every day.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Just get with Peters in the morning. Like I ordered like I don't know like a thousand. It has like a thousand of them in it. But you got to take them every day like in an allergy season so that you so that it'll get under control. It's not like a benadryil where you pop it and it makes you not itch or something. You know what
>> I was say? Can you get some of those electrolyte packets for
>> No.
>> No. Do you go to the store?
>> So So this is the thing. So the we buy the squinchers which are really expensive to go out whenever y'all go serve. But basic electrolytes, you should be drinking water. You should be there's salt in the food. There's, you know what I'm saying? Like, but if you're going to the store to buy stuff and you want a little electrolyte packets, I would say buy some electrolyte packets. Now, whenever we have people that are have been a heat casualty before, like Christian, I've bought him some for his own purse to keep on him at all times because he's become a heat casualty, but they're freaking expensive, bro.
>> Yeah, they're super expensive.
>> Yeah. Uh, so that's the only reason. It's not like I'm like, "No, you can't have electrolytes."
>> They're just super. If anybody wants to donate a bunch of electrolyte packets, we're in. But we keep them when y'all are working in the heat, right? Because it's important to have electrolytes. Other than that, that's about all we can afford. Uh, okay. Let's pray. Help us, Lord. Father God, we thank you for who you are. Lord God, we thank you for who you are in this place. We thank you for the electrolite packets that are coming now. You say ask and and you'll receive. And I'm just believing for that, Lord God. We do a lot for the community and and Lord God, I know that you want these men healthy and safe. And so we just thank you in advance, Lord. Father God, we thank you for a deeper understanding of your word and what it means to be called, Lord God? What does it mean for all things to work together for the good of those that love you and are called according to purpose, Lord God? What does that mean? And where do we fit into this? Lord God, help us so that we can operate in position in the proper position according to your kingdom. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.
>> Amen.
>> In Ephesians 4, it says, "As a prisoner of the Lord, then I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Be completely humble and gentle." Listen, I want to talk about humble and gentle real quick. Lowly, another word for humility is loneliness, right? And there's a place in uh in uh I just went blank uh Isaiah where it says he says I live with the high in the high and the holy but with the lowly and the broken. And so what that means is it he lives with you in humility and in brokenness. A lot of people will train especially coming out of recovery programs that you got to keep that brokenness. You got to keep that remember right there where the pain was. What I would say is if you do that, you'll never reach full maturity. Now, it's important to remember what got you where, right? But to choose humility will keep you just as close as brokenness according to his word. He says he lives high as holy and with the broken and the lowly. And so it says be completely humble. That's a choice. You have a choice to operate in humility, which is not easy. It's not easy. And the other part is gentleness. I didn't have the framework for what that word even meant. Uh Larry Bruner, he comes and teaches on Thursday. If y'all haven't met Dr. Bruner, he's he's really awesome. Uh he swaps out with David Jolly. So Dr. Bruner walks up to me one day, this has been 5 years ago, I think. And he said, and I didn't know him very well. Then he put his hand on my chest. He said, "Hey, uh the only time scripture describes the heart of Jesus, it describes it as gentle and lowly, and he wants you to have that heart." And I'm like I literally started thinking I'm like what does that even mean? I'm like I'm I get the humble part but the gentleness. And literally the only thing that I could think of was the movie of Men where uh George is telling Lenny to be gentle or he's going to kill the kittens. Have you ever seen that movie?
>> Yes.
>> So George and Lenny, right? It's in the 20s during the depression. They're like work on farms. Uh Lenny is like I don't know a giant but with a a very simple child's brain and he's incredibly strong. They use him to like lift wagons and all this stuff, right? And in the barn they have these kittens and the whole premise of the movie is uh George always kind of takes care of him. And so there's a part where he's like, you know, uh tell, you know, tell me about the rabbits, George. And George will always tell him like, listen, we're going to have this farm and you're going to you're going to be able to have rabbits. You'll get to take care of the rabbits. And he's just got this very simple mind. Well, these kittens are born in the barn and he's telling and George walks in there one day and all the kittens are dead. But and he's like, you know, George, you have to be gentle with these kittens when you pet them or you're going to kill them. And so in my mind when they said gentle and by the way, he ends up petting the lady, not very gentle, and kills the lady.
>> It's a whole thing. Yeah. Pretty red hair. George has to put him down. It's a great book. Great movie. What?
>> Josh.
>> Josh. This one? Uh it's funny he pointed out you I'm like what all all baldheads look alike? What's going on?
>> So but uh but anyway so so whenever whenever he gives me that word the only thing I can think of is like and this is how stupid like God transforms us in such real ways because he literally said that to me. I think about that movie and my first response was I hate cats. Cuz my only my only framework for what gentleness meant had to do with like the you know him trying to not kill these little cats, you know. And and I and I say that cuz it's a funny story of my my inability to understand just basic kingdom kingdom principles, the healing that had to occur last night. Uh, so I my wife woke me up at like I don't know it's like 11:00. My daughter and her husband are jacking around. We have their we have their daughter with us. So they're like kidless. They're playing around wrestling, whatever. Her fingernail gets like taken off. I'm not I'm talking a little. I'm talking the nail bed. It's just dangling. And so for me, I'm Listen, she my daughter's like, "Hey, I need you to come pull my finger off." I'm like, "Bet. I'll be there in a minute." I don't have any problem. Her husband's thrown up. Lupy's crying on the phone. I'm like, you know, one, two, done. We ended up going to the doctor because the nail bed, but I'm okay with they call me when that kind of stuff needs to get done. But I ended up taking her to the hospital because I didn't I was afraid if I jerked it out, it would take her full nail bed and it wouldn't her nail wouldn't grow back. And so I take her there and my wife's like, "Why aren't you holding her hand? Why aren't you comfort?" And I'm like, "What are you talking about? Why are you crying on FaceTime?" Like there's a general there I have it's I don't I don't there's certain things like I'm good at the fingernail ripping off. I'm not good at the So, I just kind of walk over and I'm like, it's it's gonna be okay. Like, you know, you know, it's gonna be it's gonna be good. Like, I'm not good at the at the comforting, the gentleness part. I just don't don't have that. And so, so there's a part of me that I had to all of who I was before Jesus had to say, "Teach me how to be gentle." Now, I'm really good with the little girls. All my little granddaughters, they're Yeah, I'm good with they they come to me. I help them with everything, right? But there I'm still learning patterns of social norms and how to be this other thing, you know. And so it says be completely humble and gentle. I said all that to say, who really understands what it would be for you to be gentle? Be honest. Does everybody understand what it means for you to be gentle?
>> Yes.
>> No.
>> No. Raise your hand. Say no. I don't know what it means.
>> No, sir.
>> That who here really knows how to operate in humility, to be humble? You, a couple maybe knows how to do that, but most of us don't. That's my point. We can learn how to do this. If he's saying in the word, be completely humble and gentle, my heart has to say, God, teach me how to be humble. God, teach me what it is to be gentle. Teach me these things. And this is what I'll tell you. He has taught me that.
What?
>> When I move my daughter,
>> hold on. Just one thing I want to share real quick is that when when I move my daughter, I'm like so gentle and humble to where like my sister will tell me, "You can't be like that. She's never going to grow up." Like that. So there's a So I get it. I the girl listen, let me be honest. All my girls can ask me for stuff my sons can never ask me for. And And they know that because they're girls. It just is what it is. I'll do stuff for the girls that I won't do for my boys. When my boys turn 18, I let them stay in my shed out back. They weren't allowed to stay in my house no more. I just It's what it is. Listen, they're just not. You know why? Cuz they're men. That's why. And I got good sons. If any of y'all go to work for Bait, y'all probably work next to my boys. Uh they they both work over there. And I got two boys out at Samuel uh EPC. They're pipe fitters. So if y'all end up out there, I know Romero's probably going to go out there. Y'all may end up with two of the boys over there. and they're good. They're hard workers. They take care of their families. They pay their bills. Now, there's more to life than that, right? I want them to have an intimate relationship with Jesus, know how to love and operate in it. And I'm working on that. And they're working on that. And so, we'll get there. But the girls, I got a daughter and her husband and three kids stand with us for like last 3 months cuz I'm not going to let the girls be put out like I mean, they were going to buy a house and VA if VA approval is next level. So, all the houses in for sale in Abling right now have problems. And so it's just been a whole process them getting their place. But so I get it. There's a different level now. Let me be honest. My daughter, my naturalb born daughter that I raised, we have a strained relationship because I was never gentle and I didn't know how to deal with her. So I kept her kind of away from me. She has two brothers. The boys live with me their whole life. Even in the ministry whenever we I first started the ministry until they finished high school, they live with us. And so, uh, I didn't have a pattern of gentleness until I was saved. Now, our relationships get better. I shared with y'all, some of y'all, you know, I got to I got to go be your wedding, you know, and and we have a great rel we have a getting better relationship. Let me say that. And God in praying for what it's like to get restored whenever I was at her wedding, I remember thinking I remember talking to the Lord and I was like, cuz I have these granddaughters I'm so good with, man. I'm so good with them. I wake up, listen, I I read stuff on how to be how to make them more confident and and all this stuff. Like whenever my daughter first started singing with me, she has a 5-year-old named Addie and uh she's horrible in the mornings, bro. Worst. But I read this thing that said as soon as they get up, the first 10 words you speak sets the entire tone for the day. So as soon as she wake up, I'd be like, "Oh my god, you're so beautiful. Like you're and literally doing that every day for like 6 days." She's the best morning person in the world now. She loves getting up. She's running around looking for me. You know what I mean? She's just really good in the mornings. But I didn't I didn't have that. I didn't have that in me to be that. I was so selfish and so sinner before Jesus. And so I say that to say at our wedding, I'm talking to the Lord and I realize all the things I'm saying to my granddaughters. I'm like, Lord, I wish I I the Lord said if you would have said all of that to her every day of her life, she would have all she wouldn't have any anything going wrong with her. she wouldn't her confidence, her all these things, right? And I just start talking to God. I'm like, "How do I fix that?" You know, and and and the beautiful part is that God loves us more than we can love ourselves. And he loves our children even when we don't know how to love him. And her husband, he just points me to this dude, his name's Brad. He's just the most solid dude ever. Super tiny guy, but solid most solid guy ever. And uh he said, "Don't worry. I sent a man that's going to tell her those things for the rest of her life." And so even in I know I got off track right there from when I was teaching, but but him loving us enough to love them more than we could ever love them, you know, and and I got to tell her whenever I doing the dad daughter dance, you know, I got to tell her, "Hey, I wish I would have told you all of these things every day, but I know that Brady will now." We let Brian in? Oh,
>> okay.
>> Uh, so, okay, to get past I wanted to just pause on humble and gentle, right? That's what you should be striving for, a heart like Christ. that is lowly and gentle. To look like him and to reflect him means at one point you're going to have to look at yourself and it's not that you're not you don't have the capacity to be dangerous but you have to look at yourself and say I'm no longer a dangerous man in order to grab on to humility and gentleness because it's coupled with meekness which is controlled power. Make sense? It doesn't mean you can't be dangerous, right? It doesn't mean you can't be tough. It doesn't mean you can't. It means no longer do I abide by the rules and laws of this world. Now I walk fully empowered in the kingdom. And once I step into meekness, then that's real power and authority. And in that I can have humility and gentleness. Just as a side note, it says, "Be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace." How do we keep unity of the spirit? Anybody?
>> How do we keep the unity of the spirit?
>> Bond of peace. I just read it. Bond of peace. Listen, check it out. When the house feels in disarray, be a peacemaker. Being a peacemaker is a lot more difficult than being a peacekeeper. You need to know the difference. It's easy to keep the peace. It's difficult to make the peace because it means you step out and lay down your life against accusation, trash talk. You ain't got to be a big guy. You ain't got to be a tough guy. And you establish peace in that atmosphere and it'll create a unity of the spirit. There's one body and one spirit just as you were called to one hope when you were called. One Lord and one faith, one baptism, one God, father of all who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us, this is important. Now, this is where it comes in. But to each one of us, who?
>> No. No. Who?
>> Each one of us. That's everybody, right? But to each one of us. It doesn't say but to each of the apostles. It doesn't say to each of the the the the 12. It doesn't say it says to each one of us. This is a letter to the church of Ephesus. This means he's saying, "Hey, every one of us, to every one of us, grace has been given as Christ aortioned it." Does everybody know what a portion means? The amount that he decided to. This is why it says when he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people. He gave gifts. Holy Spirit gave gifts. Jesus gives gifts. He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens. So Christ himself gave. So let check it out, right? Christ gave gifts. So you have in Christ. So this is going to be I need everybody to focus real quick. So you have authority and you have power, right? You have exerio and dunamis. One is power, one is authority. The best explanation I've ever heard is you take a badge, that's authority. You take a gun, that's power. You put them together, now you have power and authority. You get it? Everybody understand? So you take Christ, the image of Christ in him, therefore, right? We once we believe and we receive. So the authority, that's where authority comes from to be. Listen, if we're now hes and co-airs, if we're sons of the living God, we have the authority that Christ has. Do you get that? Are all those pieces coming together? So, authority comes through Christ. Power is by the Holy Spirit. In the authority of Christ, you have the authority over illness and demons. So, deliverance and healing comes through a authority. Does that make sense? It comes to I can show you it through. I can point you to nine different places in scripture. The easiest one is the nine the 10 lepers, right? So Jesus tells them, "Hey, you're healed. Be gone." Right? So he heals them. When he heals them, did anybody know when you have leprosy stuff starts falling off of you? Your nose falls off first, ears start to fall off. That's what leprosy does. It rots you, right? So if you're healed, it means the illness is no longer there. But do you get your is your nose back? If you're healed, do you get your nose back? No. It says one of those lepers came back and it says he said in gratitude he showed gratitude to Jesus right one and he said that one was made whole. You get it?
>> He got his nose back. The other ones were healed. This one was made whole. So there's a different there's creative restorative miracle and then there's authority and dominion. You get it? Infirmity doesn't belong in you. Illness doesn't belong in you. That's why healing falls underneath authority. The demonic, right? The only time you ever see deliverance from demons happen is once Jesus comes on the scene. Because before that, the earth belongs to who?
>> Satan.
>> Satan. Jesus comes on the scene and then you have a demon say, "Are you here to destroy us before the appointed time of destruction?" He had authority. So when he gives gifts, these gifts are gifts of
>> authority. These are authorative gifts, not title. Never listen. Never title. If it it there's a difference between a title and a job description. You understand? Well, the title is just it's something anybody can carry, right? But who fulfills the job description?
>> The one that really does the job, right? So, these five gifts aren't titles. Get that out of your mind. You don't honor a badge that someone else took on that they never even it was a gift that was given to them. They never earned it. You get it? So, it's like like, "Oh my god, apostles, let me wash your feet." That's the opposite of what it should be. The apostles should be the lowest of all so that everyone else can enter into a place walking on his back. The lowest. The prophet is the lowest. The pastor is the lowest. Right. Whoever wants to be first should be last. How'd it go? Tell me about it.
>> Uh, they already hired two people in like the service parts division. So, it's like just up for driver, but they already have one of those.
>> No, no, listen. Putting you there. Did you Were you excited about that or did you have this kind of demeanor?
>> No, I didn't.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. No, no, no, no. So, listen. those jobs. The reason why they're just tired, too, is cuz it changes over.
>> That's what I
>> just get in. They Whenever Chris O went, he was on the forklift for about 2 weeks. They moved him into the service role and then of course he messed up the whole thing.
>> But just all you got to do is get in. It'll be a great job.
>> Wherever they could be right now.
>> Yeah, Annie, just get me in. Tell them this is what you want to do. I want to just get in.
>> Also, they said it was for Thursday. and that you set me up for failure. Jimmy said
>> I didn't even I talked to him on Friday. Hold on. He
>> said for
>> Hold on. I'm going to look.
>> Hold on.
>> So, you got to go back tomorrow.
>> Oh, I s you a failure. It's definitely Thursday. You should have told him, "Listen, we like to be early at Nehemiah."
>> You know,
>> today's Wednesday.
>> That was definitely my fault.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> You know, we're just trying to do the right thing. That's all. Uh the good thing is we have a great relationship with them out there. You do well out there. So, anyway, these gifts that are given, they're job descriptions, right? They're descriptions of how you're called to lay down your life in specific ways. And there's a lot to it because if you're given if one of these gifts come the way I understand it is these are called administrative gifts or offices. And if you have an office then you can impart and raise up people you have the grace on your life to hand off that grace to raise up others. Right? So if you have a prophetic if you're not a prophetic gift cuz that's holy spirit but a prophetic anointing as far as office goes then you would have a unique way to raise up some prophetic folk. That's my understanding of it. And so the same thing for apostolic, the same thing for pastoral, the same thing for teachers, right? Personally, I I feel like I have a teaching gift. I feel I feel like God did that because it was beyond my abilities, but I also know that I have an apostolic gift, right? What does that mean? What does an apostolic gift look like? It means that we're meant to change culture. And that's what the apostle does. So, so originally, and so I'm going to dive into this before I run out of time, actually. So, Christ himself gave the apostles. So let's talk about what an apostle is. So an apostle is meant someone who is is meant to be someone who changes culture from the culture of Abene to the culture of heaven. That's what it is. So the original apostle for to be called an apostle especially to a Jew was a huge insult because what an apostle was is it was part of the Roman garrison, the Roman war machine, right? And so what would happen is so say we, you know, we're the army and we come to Abalene and we whoop the Abaleneians, you know, and but now we don't want to leave a a fighting. We want this to eventually become part of Rome. That's how they would conquer. They built an empire. So they would conquer Abene and it wouldn't be it wouldn't be just Abene by itself. It would eventually be a part of Rome. Well, how do you do that? You either leave a huge army there to while everybody's trying to rebel and do all this stuff or you leave a small force with an apostle. An apostle's job was to change the culture from Abalene to Rome. They would do that, but they bring in brothel, they would bring in uh coliseums, their sporting events, their entertainment. They would bring in their clothing. They would import all of those things and it would be the apostles job to shift and change the culture of whatever city into the culture of Rome. You see that in Paul's uh citizenship. Paul was from Asia Minor, right? Uh they he was Paul from Paul of Cyprus. Uh but he was a citizen of Rome. If you read your scripture, you'll realize he's a citizen of Rome. How is he a citizen of Rome if he wasn't from Rome? It was because at one point Rome had conquer conquered Cyprus and then sent an apostle and changed the culture to Roman culture so that as you were a part of that city now you were a citizen of Rome. That's the job of an apostle. Now in the kingdom what does that look like? What does it look like to shift and change a culture from a c a worldly culture to the culture or kingdom culture? You see what I'm saying? like and and this is the thing is you're not only combating you're not only combating the world you're also combating religion you're you know but then it would have been Judaism right you see in Galatians where where they would establish these church this church and then you would have these Jewish people come in and be like hey you got to get circumcised and Paul's like shut up no you don't what are you doing you're trying to take this subculture into this kingdom culture and so it means that we learn how to serve a regardless of what they believe. See, Jesus was known for hanging out with drunkards and glutton, right? He was known for going to talk to a Samaritan, not going around Samar Samaria, but going directly through. And not only that, but stopping and talking to a Samaritan woman all by himself at a well. He was scandalous when it came to serving people that everyone else despised. And so, the first thing I would think is we would learn to serve a city both in its people regardless of their belief. You don't have to profess Christianity for me to love you radically. In fact, it's you would be much easier to love if you were a Christian. I think he wants us to bring his love to people that don't know him. And so, I'm I'm going to serve that way. I'm also going to serve local government, right? We're going to make ourself available to the city. What can sick man? Not many groups can show up 60 dudes deep, right? We have 60 grown men that have a hunger and a thirst for life and for employment and and to and to learn how to do the right thing and learn how to be a part of a community. We have something that not many people do. So for us, what does it look like for us to shift and change the culture like right now with this storm, bro? People see us everywhere cutting trees down. We're serving and it's dual purpose, right? To get some of those trees cut down. Normally they would charge $5, $6,000. We're like, look, can we get a grand? And it helps us, right? and it helps us out a little bit, but it's also us serving out there and and helping the elderly. There's been a couple companies that said, "Hey, if you have any elderly folks that can't afford it, send us the invoice." So, you see how God will start doing these things like King like our hearts to serve. And then you have these other people like, "Hey, we know that y'all need some money, too. So, if y'all do that, we'll pay y'all for y'all's labor." And it starts creating this environment where we're starting to work together in unity.
>> It starts creating unity. service to serve would be the primary way in my opinion to shift culture to be able to love people that other people religious people oppose. Now, I'm not saying we embrace a si any of their sinful lifestyle. Like, I'm still going to speak honest truth. But that honest truth, if you don't know I love you, will fall on deaf ears. If we don't have a relationship, you're never going to believe it anyway, right? So, so I have to build a relationship enough where you where then the question is presented, do you do you think what I'm doing is sinning? And I'm like, based off what I believe, yeah, but what do you believe? What I say I believe is it's absolutely a sin. But how can I hold someone accountable to what they to what I believe if they don't even believe what I believe? So the way I would serve is I would let my life reflect my belief, not my word against someone else's lifestyle. If I ever asked a question, I'm not going to deny, do you think this is a sin? Of course it is. according to what I believe. My hope is that my radical ability to serve you and love you and not have an opinion of you would make you say, "Maybe that thing's real." You know what I mean? Like, or ask the question like, "What about this?" I' I've found that most people that profess atheism uh are hurt really really bad by the church or or they had a very abusive someone in their life that claimed to be a man of God and it and it absolutely turns them away from it. And so so I would say the apostolic approach is to shift culture. I think the definition is to send people out, right? And we do that within the city. We send guys out to serve constantly. We partner with all the churches. We try to create unity because that's so super important, right? the bond of peace. How do you keep unity of spirit? The bond of peace. So, we try to serve all the churches, all the denominations from the Catholic to the to the to the Baptist to the Methodist, right? Everybody that has ever asked, we've served. Uh, and so that's what it is for me to have an apostolic call. It means you're going to lower yourself to the lowest point so that you can serve everyone from that position. So the prophetic so it says so grass instead of give the apostles the prophets right what is the role of the prophet I think it has two I think it's a dual function role right to to hear the voice of god and speak it to the people for the purpose of building up the church so I think that's so it's like to hear and speak the voice of god so that it can build up the church that that that's what I that's what I've seen that's what I believe that's where I think it's got all got to be about edification right and edi that's a huge word right edification doesn't mean I'm giving you sweet uh sweet gems in your ear. Sometimes it's me saying, "Hey, I know what you're doing in secret." God knows. I know. And he wants you to expose and confess that thing. He wants you to confess that thing right now so that you can be healed from it. That is edification. That is building up. Sometimes you got to cut away to build up. That's just what it is. And so, but the whole purpose is if it's not building up the church, I don't I I don't I don't I don't see the function of it according to scripture, right? It has to be for that end for to build up the people to build up the church. When I say church, I'm not talking about a building. I'm talking about all of us that believe, right? Every believer is the church.
What?
>> Hold on one second. So like the picture pops up in my mind cuz you're talking about apostles. Paul's apostle and then um Timothy and Titus come in to mind which they were young but he left them there after teaching them to set up the same system that you're talking about right now.
>> No, I think very clearly Timothy was a pastor not a apostle.
>> No, I'm not saying he's apostle. Paul was the apostle. He told them the same things that I'm teaching you to set up.
>> Yeah. In that city. Yeah. He would go and he would convert and establish and it was up to them to keep that going in that city. Yes.
>> Yeah. Uh, yeah. Absolutely. Another thing I would say about prophetic is if it doesn't point so even in the edification it always points to a crucified or resurrected Christ. Always either it has to be point to me being buried with him or me being resurrected with him. Now that's you like me telling you, hey, I know what you're doing in secret. And you're loved. You're loved. And I know how hard it is for you to get that out of your heart, but if you can speak it out loud right now, then we can pray and you can be free. Right? So that points to being dead with to sin and having the ability to walk in freedom, right? Being it should point to the death and the resurrection of Christ. That's what I mean by that statement because it should that's how it empowers you. It empowers you to be buried with him and resurrected with him. And if it doesn't point back to that, if it's any kind of fantastical, you know, magic Jesus stuff, I I veer away from it a little bit. I have some discernment about it, right? I I have some caution about it because and and especially dates like uh like if somebody's like, "Hey, in 4 months, I'm like, Lord said, I'll be right back." And then like 500 years passes. I'm just I'm I'm skeptical about dates, right? I'm skeptical about that stuff. Uh because we also see in scripture that there are people with supernatural gift that do that are is not of God, right? Uh uh Saul that goes after Samuel dies and he goes and finds a a necromancer basically and he disguises himself because before this God had told him to go kill anybody that that does like speaks to the dead and he he finds one that he didn't. He hides himself, goes and tells her to raise Samuel. And she freaks out cuz he knows who he is. Then he's like, "You're going to kill me." She's like, "Just do it." And then Samuel appears. She brings him back to talk to Saul, right? So there is some power that's not of God.
What?
>> She freaks out cuz it actually was Saul.
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, no. That's what I'm saying. She freaks out cuz it was Saul, but and Saul is the one that was killing all of them.
>> But but but my point is, so there is listen, this beautiful thing in scripture that it says we've been given power to overcome the power of the enemy. No, I mean she freaks out that actually was Samuel.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, no, she freaks out cuz it was Saul.
>> She don't get it twisted. She freaked out because Saul went around hunting every single necromancer.
>> So that when she once he calls up Samuel and Samuel speaks to Saul, she realizes Saul and she freaks out because now she's like, "You're going to kill me. You tricked me."
>> You know, when she raises it and it actually is Samuel, she freaks out because it never really is the person. And it's always a demon.
>> No, no, no, hold on, hold on. Calm down. That's not why she freaked out. I'm telling you why she freaked out.
>> It was because it was Saul and Saul had been known for killing him. And and and and that really is. And before then, so you got to remember before Christ was raised from the dead. So when Christ dies and is raised from the dead, you can look in scripture, they see all these dead people walking around. Did y'all know that?
>> It's an accident. I I can't remember if it's in Acts or which one it is, but they literally see people that had been dead for years walking around.
>> So So it looked different. The realms looked very very different before Christ's resurrection, right? To know him is eternal. There's no way to the father but through the son. And so there's a there's a whole thing. So So it's very clear and I'm just not trying to rebuke just saying just for clarity sake. The reason why she has freaked out is cuz Saul hunted all the necromancers. So when Samuel comes back and starts speaking to him, she freaks out. And she's like, "How could you deceive me?" Cuz she wasn't actively practic practicing it. He had to find somebody and then get her to do it again. So she was afraid he was going to kill her. I say that because obviously if you're having discernment when it comes to prophecy but and certain things can mimic that and there are powers out there because it says we've been given power to overcome the power. I've seen crazy witchcraft stuff and there is some power out there. We have Jesus, right? We have power to overcome the power of the enemy. Man, y'all are sleepy today. I got three or four of you just hanging on. just hanging on, bro. Just stand up for me at the back
>> only cuz it's mainly it distracts me. If y'all just just get you a little breath, stand up at the back if you're sleepy.
>> Uh so, so I say that because whenever it comes to prophecy, like I don't just trust everyone. I I'm always encouraged by prophetic word. Let me say this, bro. If you feel like when you're praying for me and the Lord says something, tell me because it says, I I'll hear it and I'm going to put it I'm going to put it in to see if it's real. And I don't need I'm not looking for like, oh, you're going to find a pot of gold next week, right? Like, I'm looking to be encouraged cuz this walk is hard. So, I'm all in on a prophetic word. What I'm not all in on is somebody declaring themsself a prophet and then having that title as leverage. Does that make sense? But man, we're all called to prophesy. In fact, Paul said, "I would wish that you would desire prophecy because a good word, my most powerful, the most powerful prophetic word I was ever given was 1 Peter 5:10." And I'm going to summarize it because it's such a good scripture and I forget it most of the time, but he says this. He says, "You're going to suffer, but then I, the God of all things, myself will restore you." And I remember when she gave me that, I didn't even care about the suffering. All I can think about is God used to send angels to other people. He's coming himself to restore me. And it allowed me to be like, I'll suffer. If I know God's showing up,
I'll suffer. You know what I'm saying? That to me, there was no time limit on it. There was just she's just like, you're in a season and it's going to get harder and you're going to suffer, but know this that in a certain amount of time, which there is no there's no date on it, but in a certain amount of time, God's going to come and restore you. And to me, that was like I've hung on. I I feel like that still that prophetic word still applies in my life today where it's like, "Okay, Lord, I'm going to suffer." Well, you see what I'm saying? But I and but and I've I've given prophetic words. I've given some prophetic words that you're scared to give. I remember telling God I said, "I the Lord just keeps telling me that you're going to be get pregnant this year." And and I they had been trying to get pregnant and couldn't get pregnant. And uh let me tell you this, she they're pregnant with their second child right now.
>> And so so so some of those times where I'm like, "Okay, Lord, if I look crazy, I mean, I do remember stealing a 600lb cast iron stove and moving it on a f on a a refrigerator dolly while riding my bike at 3:00 in the morning. I I was all messed up. Let's just say that.
>> I was I was all messed up. It was so heavy it made my back tire flat. And then like every third pedal it was so heavy my tire would just spin in the rim would spin in the rubber, you know? It was Yeah, it was a whole thing. So I'm like I've looked pretty crazy before. Like what's the big deal about telling a girl pregnant, you know? So I'm able to jump off in those. Anyway, I digress. Uh it says the evangelist. So So let's talk about evangelist real quick. I'm trying to get through these five because I think I believe that every man in this room is called to one of these five. That that's why this day is so important for me. And I don't want you to pursue a title. I want you to pursue a description. An evangelist. This is how it it is to me. This is this is what I say is so say uh there's a little town north or west here called Merkel, right? And say Merkel needs Jesus real bad. So uh we're going to send Roger. Roger's an evangelist. He has a gift evangelist. He has the appointing by God as an evangelist. And he's thoroughly equipped. Well, does that does that mean that he's just good at sharing the gospel? I mean, all of us are called to evangelize to a little bit to share the good news, right? And how we live and how we conduct ourselves. And when asked, we have to give a defense for what we have this hope for. What is that defense? My testimony. But what is an evangelist? What is an evangelist look like? Right? We we know an apostle lay down their life, shift, change culture. Pro prophetic is to build up the saint in the church, right? That to to be able to speak what God's saying. But what is an evangelist do? And it's two-part. It's real good. What?
>> Relationships.
>> No.
>> No. No. So, and this one you'll get real real easy. So, if I'm going So, warfare wise, if I'm going to take what? Hold on. You got you got Mark back there trying to answer.
>> An evangelist is someone who brings the message
>> and
>> and the good news, the So that is it. That is the evangelize here. You got one more up here cuz cuz I'm going to add two. I'm not going to take away from those. I'm going to add to those.
>> Evangelism is somebody that brings someone's to, right?
>> Somewhat. Yeah. Somewhat. It's all kind of the same thing.
>> So you you bring someone to Christ and so you so you save them, right, by bringing them to Christ. And
>> that's that's a very that's a big part of it. So, this is what it looks like for me. And I'm going to speak in terms of warfare real quick. If I want to destroy Merkel and all inhabitants, I'm going to start if I have a full military at my disposal, I'm going to start with artillery, right? I'm going to soften it up. Any building over four stories, I'm taking to the ground cuz then I only got to clear twotory buildings, right? So, I'm I'm launching artillery in there to get it softened up. Once it's softened up, then you send the invading force that goes house to house and clears everything and stays. Right? So for me, the evangelist is the artillery. So it an evangelist would go to Merkel and set up to share the gospel, but I believe a true evangelist has to be endowed with power. This is why miracles cause people to believe. miracles. Listen, you go in the church, people have an expectation of miracles. Now, not everybody, right? Some people don't even believe in miracles and they've been in the church their whole life. And I realized that until I saw my first ankle go from this to this, that there was a part of me that didn't actually believe until I saw it with my own eyes. And then it was like, okay, well, now I do. You know, that definitely just happened. And now we've seen cancer cured multiple times. We've seen all these different things. So, now we have the framework in this room. But if you went to Merkel, Texas, and started talking about Jesus, everybody's heard of Jesus in Texas. I don't care who you are, you've heard of Jesus, but it doesn't mean you've encountered him. It doesn't mean you know him. But if you have somebody that is fully empowered by Christ as an evangelist for the kingdom, he would go into that city, I believe, make some partnerships with some pastors and stuff first. So it, you know, the people have somewhere to go after this event. But then they have this event, this artillery style event where you drop the big guns. Right. One of my friends, CJ, is has a a call of an evangelist on his life. He has a call of an evangelist. He comes in, he has 50 different little oneliner punchline deals, and it inspires and and brings an excitement to receive the gospel. He has that anointing. I believe that he will be endowed with power eventually where when I say power, I'm talking miracle, signs, and wonders. I'm talking eyeballs growing back, ears growing back. I I believe we're coming into a season where we're going to see spectacular miracles once you create the unity according to this five-fold platform. Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers. Because after listen, so we here, right? Apostolic influence. We got some prophetic going on. We're raising up some evangelists and pastors, some teachers. And then now we're going to send them out to Merkel. We're going to nuke Merkel, not, you know, with Jesus and some miracles. And then there's going to have to be some pastors that believe in unity, the same thing that we do. and then some teachers that come behind them, right, to help reinforce what the P. You see how it works? You see how that five-fold works?
>> You see what I'm saying? And to what end, right? So So let me So that's what an evangelist is. Evangelist is the artillery, bro. It's it's the if the apostle is the general, the the the evangelist is the artillery. You're you're lobbing rounds in there and and you're leveling stuff with the anointing on this man's life and bringing an excitement to receive Christ. But receiving Christ isn't the end. I need to be made a disciple of Jesus. I need to be made a disciple. Who's going to do that? Who's Listen, a pastor. This is this is where we we'll step into the pastor realm now, right? There's a part of me that never knew I truly needed a pastor, right? I got I got saved, got radically called into ministry, all these different things. I have tons of pastor friends, but but never did I have and I knew that I knew that in the order of things I needed a pastor, but if I'm being honest, in my heart, in my heart, it was only because I'm supposed to, not because of anything other than that. Does that make sense? Until my dad died. My dad died almost a year ago. September 12th last year, my dad passed away. And and it was beautiful, if I'm being honest. I mean it him passing wasn't beautiful but in June he got diagnosed as stage four cancer and we man we really worried about watching him just deteriorate that cancer is a ugly thing and he's like I don't want chemo his wife my mom had been dead for 13 years and he's like it was my stepmom who actually I consider my mom he's like I'm just ready to see my wife he's like I'm ready I I don't want to do chemo it's just I'm so ready he said I just miss my wife and uh and so about from June to September, he just kind of got worse, worse, worse. He didn't want to die in the hospital. So, we start hospice. And uh on the Wednesday before the Friday that he died, he wakes up. I'm out there and he kind of wakes up and I'm just talking to him and I said I said, "Dad, are you scared?" And he goes, "And me and my sister had the honor and privilege over the last handful of years to pour into him, really lead him into a real relationship with Jesus." He would show up at commitment when we still went over there a lot. He would come to church and I mean it smelled like weed but you know he was coming and that's that's as much as we could hope for and and he really had a passion for Jesus. We had gotten him a Bible and uh he wanted one large print so he could start reading it on his own. So all of those things where you know like this is happening. So on that Wednesday I said I said are you afraid? He said no I know what happens next. And it was just such an it was a confidence like he confidently knew that he would be in the arms of Jesus, you know. And so Friday comes, you know, Thursday he stops drinking water and and eating. I'm going over on my time, but I I want to wrap this part up for sure. Uh I remember Friday morning, me and my wife get up and we're praying cuz my sister is taking care of him, you know, and we just start praying out loud for my sister and I I said, "God, you're God of mercy. You wouldn't want her to watch her dad thirst to death or starve to death. Lord God, give us mercy. Take him quickly. Anyway, we start praying and declaring this out loud. Within 2 minutes, my sister calls and tells me my dad had passed away. Right. So, all in all, just merciful, beautiful. Couldn't ask for better. Definitely didn't deserve it that way for us, you know, cuz we we just thank you, Lord. Right. So that next Sunday I go, you know, David McClean, who's pastor Belway, is a is a friend and a mentor and a pastor, but I like I said, I'd never had like this is my pastor until this moment. And uh he said, "How are you doing? Do we need to do the funeral? What do you need from me? I got you. Whatever you need." I said, "No, this this blah blah blah." He said, "How are you doing?" I said, "It was great." I said, "I'm great." I said, "It was so beautiful this, this, and this." He just starts kind of laughing and he goes, he said, "Listen, I get it." He said, "But think about like this. If I have a knife in my hand and I tell you, I'm going to stab you eventually and then eventually I do. Once I do it, it's still going to hurt and you're still going to take time to heal even though you knew it was coming." And it was funny because I walked away. I walked away and I get about a hundred years 100 yards away from him and the and it hit me that he took me from a place where I was hiding from my grief.
>> Yeah.
>> Behind this beautiful experience that I was in a storm. I didn't even know I was in a storm because I was hiding from it. And he brought me from that storm to clear water and green pastures. And I remember that verse come in pastures and the word pastor and where it comes from that a pastor leads a flock that isn't mature, that isn't paying attention, that they're just entrusting their life, they entrust their life to Jesus. They're part of the body overall. And that pastor's job is to take them from storm to to to not storm, from from desolation to to plenty. That's the role of the pastor. I remember saying out loud, literally in that moment, I said, "I need a pastor." And I had a revelation of the true call and witnessing the anointing of a true pastor. And at that point, I was like, "This is my pastor." And so, you send the evangelist in, but man, you got to have pastors for us to grow, for our families. Listen, I'll tell anybody here, you the reason why we go to multiple churches is for you and your family. You need to become a member of a local church. You need to participate in a body of believers. And some of it's going to be ugly, right? Just like f normal family business, right? You got an ugly cousin, you got a drunk uncle, you know what I'm saying? And stuff's going to get messy sometimes, but it doesn't mean it's not your family. And it doesn't mean you don't absolutely need them and need to be a part of that. And so when it comes to that process, then you have your teachers. You're we're constantly searching. We're doing devotion. We're mining for nuggets. Who here in the program seems like who's the guy that right now that when he opens his mouth, man, y'all just learn from him in the program? There's got to be a guy. There's always a couple guys. Anybody? Anybody willing to name him? Roger. Everybody's pointing at Roger. There you go. So you see there's got to be something because because they're they're searching their bind and they've got a call on their life and then in that call on their life they're sharing that within the flock they have this positional role and they're imparting that grace to you.
>> Amen.
>> So that as we're moved from storm to clear clear skies, we're also growing and maturing. And you see that's why so whenever I talk about the fivefold I don't know why there's so many fights over this. It says this I'm going to I'm going to skip down just a little. It says it says pastors and teachers to equip and then I'm close on this cuz I went over about 5 minutes already. To equip his people for works of service so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith. Listen this to equip his people for works of service. Right? the apo a apostles so that the body of Christ that's us may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the son of God and become mature attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants tossed back and forth by the waves and blown here and there by every wind of wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. the goal. And this is why it's we so desperately need to embrace this approach, not titles. Listen, nobody needs to be holding anybody's pocket. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's not about the title. And I and I would shy away for people that label themselves apostle soando just cuz I I would, right? But I would look for men that have a deep desire to serve and change culture. I would look for men that ha and women that have a timely and men and women exist in both of these, I believe. Even that's proven out in scripture. There was a female apostle. Uh and so you have you have culture shift. You have words from God to edify, build us up sometimes to cut a little bit away. We have those evangelists that can come in and soften a callous portion of your heart because they have that hard-hitting. Listen, a Sabbolt round is an extreme thing, right? It it it blows through a tank so fast that the hole is only about this big on one side, about this big on the other, but it goes through so quickly it flash, burns, melts, and sucks all liquid out the other side. Sabo realm, that's your evangelist. Need something that can penetrate my unforgiveness. I need something that can penetrate my opinion. I need something that can penetrate the religion so that I can be open to the goodness of the kingdom, to Christ in the fullness of who he's called me to be.
>> And then while I'm trying to navigate this life that is very difficult and very hard and very complicated, I need somebody that'll just tell me, "Hey, come over here." And I got to be willing to listen to him, right? I got to be willing to listen to him when he says, "You're the problem. You're the problem right now. But and because the trust and where he's trying to lead me, okay, how and then I'll have some teachers in my life that will help me navigate what gentleness is, what humility is, what how to really be a kind person, which is unfamiliar to me, right? Who here was taught if you're kind, you you're going to get taken advantage. I'll be kind to the people in my little tight circle, but nobody else. And if somebody's being kind to me, I ain't ow them on payday. You know what I'm saying? like that's the importance. That's the power that dwells in you. Cuz I believe that in this room, all five of those exist. And this is a place of preparation to call you into the fullness of who he has you destined to be. Father God, right now, I just pray a revelation of who we are, a revelation of who you've called us to be, and a resol revelation of how to stay in position and just hear your voice. In Jesus name I pray. And then
>> my student fed never kicked in.