A Concise and Entire History of the Palestine Conflict

Alum, how are you guys doing? And welcome to another podcast where I'm with a very esteemed and very accomplished guest, who is Abdullah Lusi, an individual now as a researcher for the I3 Institute. And we're here in the I3 Hub in Canada, where we've had events where we've spoken about the Palestine issue. Um, first of all, a quick one, what do you make of the whole issue from the, you're looking at this and your, what's your assessment of it all?

Okay. Um, so the current situation in Gaza is a continuation of a very consistent Israeli historical policy of, um, of aggression, uh, expansion, and settlement. And so, because Israel was has always been consistently initiating wars, fighting, putting, using pressure tactics by maintaining, even at times of peace, a low-level, uh, amount of military operations and police and security operations, uh, despite the fact they might agree to ceasefires. And this always inevitably antagonizes, uh, the Palestinians and others, um, to, to, uh, retaliate, um, or to protest in some way or form. And then this Israel uses as a pretext to advance its territorial and strategic goals further.

Okay, well, well, I do want to delve a little bit into the historical analysis with you because I know that you've done a lot of research on that. And before I do so, I just want to make, um, it clear that the importance of this is actually on the information war. That when, say for example, pro-Palestinian activists, Muslims, and others are making the case that they should be making a case using solid and sound argumentation. And so, what you're going to do, hopefully today, is not, you're not going into elaborative detail, but you're giving them a taster of some of the historical, give the skeleton of what's happened historically. If they're interested, obviously, they can go and do their own research. So let's start with, uh, I mean, when, when do you want to start? When do you think is a good time to start historically?

I, I think that first, we need to make a very basic argument that I think Muslims need to know, and anyone who advocates for, for the Palestinians needs to know, which is this: the Zionist narrative is that they are responding to attacks against themselves. But they never explain, and never can it be explained, uh, what is the motivation of the opponents they're claiming are attacking them. Because they'll say, "Oh, they just hate us," or "They want to wipe out, um, Israel's political entity," or "or kill Jews," or "Hamas," or they'll say, "Look, uh, Hamas is a terrorist organization, they're trying to, it's all their fault." But remember, they always, uh, kind of explain the motivation as just this inexplicable evil. But human beings don't work like that, right? Human beings have, um, usually make rational choices depending on how, how to achieve their objectives. And their objectives, more or less, when it comes to collectives, um, are what they would deem to be reasonable or attainable.

Mh. So if Zionists are arguing that Hamas or others just want to wipe out all Jews from the face of the Earth, or wipe out all Jews in Israel, which is their narrative, um, how would that make sense by just firing a few rockets, or just doing, um, a one-way suicide or raid into just neighboring, um, uh, settlements and military bases? That's not going to destroy Israel. That's not going to harm its strategic, or have no strategic effect actually on Israel. So if that doesn't make sense, which it doesn't, we have to ask further questions. What's going on? What's happening that is not so reported on the scene that is making, uh, either the Fatah, or the Palestinian Authority, or Hamas, or the average Palestinian, uh, respond with anger and and being upset, or even responding, um, with either protests or violence? Because of course, before 1987, there was no Hamas. And in the West Bank, there is no Hamas. So, um, even now, until this time. So going into the historical analysis removes Hamas essentially from the assessment, the analysis.

Well, I mean, just this year, there was a major Israeli security operation, uh, that killed, that killed tens of Palestinians in the West Bank. And there was no Hamas there. Exactly, right. So we have to ask this question as to what's actually going on. What is Israel actually doing to the Palestinians, um, which is not as reported? It's not reported. And it's usually a day-to-day, um, just their normal experience of life for the Palestinians. What's happened to them to make them react with such outbursts? Right.

So tell us some, some quick facts in terms of historical facts. People might not even understand what is the beef going on here. I mean, who are the natives to the land of Israel? Um, is it the Palestinian Arabs? Are they the Jews? Is it a combination of both? What's the beef about? When did it start? I'm not going to go all the way back into ancient history here. Let's keep it contemporary. What would you say to this?

Well, the, the argument from the Zionist narrative is, um, that the, uh, the ethnic group which they represent, which, which they're trying to, they claim they represent, they don't represent, of course, many Jews condemn, a significant majority condemn, um, Zionism. But their argument is that Jews are not invaders of Palestine, or then, and Zionists not invaders of Palestine, because, um, Jews are natives of Palestine. They were there, uh, 2,000 years ago. They're just coming home after 2,000 years. Okay.

So this, this really is, it's a side point, but they use it as a justifying narrative. So we have to discuss it, of course. So if we're just going to discuss it from a purely, uh, just a historical, uh, analysis, um, the oldest historical record which has some corroboration, um, in some parts, not entirely, but has some corroboration, is the, the, the Torah, the Tanakh, um, the Old Testament, as Christians call it. And if you look at that, and you also look at archaeological evidence, we see that the Israelites haven't always been there. Um, the Israelites, being the 12 tribes of Israel, Judah is one tribe of Israel, which then was used to mean to call the Jews, Jews. Um, they invaded the land. The, the people that lived there were called Canaanites, or the land was called Canaan, or Canaanites, um, with, with the inhabitants. And they were invaded, and there was a kind of genocide of them, uh, by the invading Israelite tribes, as reported in the Bible, in the Old Testament. Right.

Yeah, yeah. So if you're going to be historical, just purely historical, um, the Israelites were invaders of the land, um, approximately, uh, they say about, roughly, we historians think, about 1200 BC. And, um, they remained in the land. There was, you know, wars with rival empires and things, and they were, you know, moved around and things like this. But at some point, um, after 70 AD, or so, as they say, um, or the Common Era, CE, you know, many Jews immigrated. Al, they, Jews, they immigrated actually before that. I mean, Rome is reported to have 50,000 Jews, at least 100 years before, well, 50 to 100 years before the 70 CE. They, most economic migrants. They were going for, you know, better prospects in Rome and so on and so forth. So Jews left for various reasons, like Jews would, like people would leave for any reason, you know, better prospects, what have you. And of course, you know, it was, it was a land that was in, in a crossroads, so there was many wars and things. It was a very unstable place to be.

You made a really good point before when we did this, this, this segment. I'm not sure if people remember, but I do. If you want more information, we've done a reaction before on the Jordan Peterson discussion with Netanyahu. Yeah, yeah. And you made a very, very good point, which I remember, which is that if you really count the years of, let's say, the Arab majority in that area versus the Jewish majority in that area, you were saying it's more with the Arab majority. Okay.

So, so basically, why I mentioned the, um, the habitation of, uh, Jews who would later be called Ashkenazi Jews, so let's just call it, say, say European Jews for short. So Ashkenazi Jews left that region, um, before there was, uh, an uprising by, uh, Jews against Roman occupation. And so, and they were there for even hundreds of years, even after 70 CE. The Zionists always cite 70 CE as the time that Jews were kicked out without their will and consent. That, that's historically not true. Um, there was no mass kicking out. There was, there was further rebellions. You can't have further rebellions in a place where there's no people to actually rise up, you know? So that's not true. Um, and there was an expulsion, though, of course, in 70 AD. Right?

No, there was a capture of, of many, of many Jews who were part of the uprising, and they were enslaved and sent to Rome. But there were already Jews in Rome, a significant proportion, who were just, uh, economic migrants, not slaves. Yeah, that, that's the point. And they were Jews. There was still a significant majority of Jews residing in Palestine afterwards. Now, here's the thing, right? So Ashkenazi Jews, um, if you count the amount of, so if you count, if you take 70 CE as a basis, what you'll find is that if you count the amount of time that Israelites have been in that land in total, so up to that point, let's say, let's take 1200, 12, 1300, uh, years, yeah. And the amount of time they've been out, outside the land since 70. So let's say for Ashkenazi Jews, they came, they started to come in greater numbers in the 1800s, yeah. So they've been outside the land for 1,800 years, and they've only ever been inside the land in ancestrally speaking for 1,300 years.

Very interesting point. So they, they were invaders in the first. They were invaders at the beginning. Yes. And they, okay, let's say, even if we, even if we consider, they got kicked out, which they didn't. Yes. Um, the majority of them weren't kicked out, but they've been living outside the land for longer than their, their ancestors ever lived inside the land. So how are they natives then? Yes.

Because now we have to go to what, what is native? What is being, indigenous to a land? Excellent. So that's a really good background. Let's get to the money now, because, okay, okay. So, so, you know, like fast forward, um, so the land has had many people in it. You know, just want to make a point that DNA studies on both Palestinians and so on have showed that Palestinians, um, have about 60 to 70% DNA traced to Canaanites. Right? Oh, interesting. Yeah. And because many Canaanites may have converted to Judaism, and then converted to Christianity, and then converted to Islam, right? But they speak Arabic. So they're just called Arabs. You understand? Because, as you know, an Arab is anyone who speaks Arabic. Um, there's also, um, analysis done on Lebanese people, and it showed that they were like about 90% Canaanites. Really? So, so the people that live in that region are more or less their, their, that land, there, for, and that's by Canaanite up to 4,000 years ago. So they, it's pretty old.

So now we've established that, because Palestinians are often said that they're just Arabs that invaded from Arabia in the 7th century. No, um, just because they're called Arabs doesn't mean they're, they're Arabians. Sure. Yeah, they're just Arabic speakers. Okay. Um, now, there were Palestinian Jews, which, which resided for that time, not going to, you know, they, and they, they were called Palestinians along with everybody else by the British and others. Okay. So now we get to kind of more, um, the 18th century and so on. You have, uh, political Zionists rise up in Europe. They are complaining about how, um, Jews are treated in, in Europe. Yeah. In Russia, there's pogroms, um, there's discrimination. Western Europe, there's no pogroms anymore around about that time.

But what year are we here? So we're talking about the 19th century, the 1800s, up to the mid, middle, middle 1800s. So there was issues of, um, you know, Jews are, are discriminated. Jewish, the Jewish problem, it was called, isn't it? Uh, in, in various Western countries. Yeah, yeah. They were, because they had, they were viewed to have different customs, you know, different beliefs, um, and so they were viewed to be this, you know, a minority that couldn't really blend in very well by, by many races at the time. But there was no pogroms or, um, massacres in, in France, England, not just yet. Yeah. Well, yeah, of course. Um, United States of America, Canada, of course, there. And in fact, you know, Jews received quite a lot of rights in, in England, and, uh, America, and so on and so forth. Which either are America being a melting pot of different ethnicities or immigrants. Okay.

So, uh, what happened was that there was an argument by political Zionists that the only way to solve this, the problem of, um, of discrimination and racism and so on and so forth, is that Jews need to control their own land, right? They have to have a land, and they have to be in control of it. The ones who control the power, their ethnicity, not other the ethnicities. Or no, America, you have rights. There's no pogroms against Jews. Never was. Yeah. But that was not really discussed, right? But this was an age of nationalism. So this is the time where people like, you know, Theodore Herzl and, um, Chaim Weizmann, and others would send correspondences with the British Empire asking them for land. And then the British Empire would come back and say, for example, "Hey, you got Uganda for, as an example," with Chaim Weizmann, or "Argentina," with Theodor Herzl. And they were like, "No, it has to be," and these, these are primary sources, which anyone can, can get very easily. And they were like, "No, it has to be Palestine. It can't be Uganda, and it can't be Argentina." Ugh. And so this is, these are kind of conversations happening. Obviously, this is right before the Balfour Declaration in 1917.

So, so to fast forward to that now. Yeah, yeah. We've got all this Zionist, you know, jargon, or let's say, narrative. So, so, so to raise the point. So basically, at first, um, there were different types of, of Zionists. Some were cultural Zionists. They just wanted, uh, a, a central hub in the world where you can have a cultural hub for Jews. They weren't, they weren't talking about politics. They didn't really care about politics so much. So they, they began immigrating to Palestine and under Ottoman rule. So the Ottomans allowed Jews to come to immigrate into Palestine. But when there was caught wind of of political Zionism as an ultimate goal, there was them some issues like, "Well, are you coming here just to be part of the people? No problem. But are you, are you coming here, uh, to take over the place and become, and make an ethno-nationalist state?" That's something else. That's a different discussion. So, so, uh, Jews began immigrating into Palestine under the Ottoman, under the Islamic Ottoman Caliphate. Yes. But it was only when the British invaded and, and, of course, just prior to that invasion, where there was an agreement between, uh, some, uh, rich, influential, uh, kind of, uh, Jewish, um, uh, bankers and others in England, uh, with, of course, the, the, uh, British establishment to say, "Look, uh, we can basically, uh, we would like to, to reside in that land as a, as a homeland for ourselves, as a, as an ethno-national state for Jews." And the British made that deal, right? So when we take it over, we will be committed to, as the Balfour Declaration, we'll be committed to establishing a Jewish homeland for you. The benefits for Britain was, was, um, it's a bit long-winded, but in essence, it was useful for them to have, uh, those that be willing to cooperate with them, having a strategic outpost to control a strategic region. So Britain wanted to use, uh, the Zionists to be an outpost, uh, for British strategic interests.

So we've covered the, the kind of the, um, the, the genetic history, if you like. And then we moved into, like, say, the 19th century. We talked about, kind of, very briefly, and of course, this is just superficial, but trying to get the main points here for people to have a clear timeline in their minds. And then we're here at the Balfour Declaration, 1917, and the British Mandate for Palestine, which is effectively Britain's control of Palestine. It was called the British Mandate at that time. So let's move a little bit forward now, maybe through to the 30s and 40s, right? Of course, before World War II, where there was mass immigration of Jewish people into, uh, the land of Palestine. Of course, there was a lot of things that happened there. So, so, I mean, the Balfour Declaration is basically an agreement, um, between Walter Rothschild, who was a Jewish backer to, to the political Zionism, and of course, after Balfour, once then the British, um, kind of finally conquer, um, Palestine, and with the help of, uh, kind of Arabs from Arabia, from under Sharif Hussein, and others, um, they had initially promised to give the land, uh, to Sharif Hussein. There was an agreement, you could say, with Sharif Hussein that pre-dated, was two years before the Balfour Declaration. This is important because people claim that then legally speaking, the Balfour Declaration is a legal document that gives ownership to Zionists. But technically, because it was an agreement with the, with the occupying power, but the British actually made a prior agreement to actually give Sharif Hussein all of, um, almost all of Al-Sham. That was about 1915, right? Yeah, 1915, so on and so forth. That's just a slight, but, um, so they, uh, once the British control Palestine, um, they, they create, they create a mandate. So the Mandate of Palestine, where they're meant to be supervisors over it, and to it can become an independent state, much like they did in, in different, uh, parts of the Muslim world, cutting into pieces, making nation-states. But they then start increasing migration, allowing a mass migration of, uh, of Jews from Russia, who are escaping persecution, so on and so forth. Political Zionists from countries that are not where there wasn't persecution, like Britain, and so, and so forth.

Interestingly enough, many Jews came to, uh, Palestine and then used it as a jumping-off point to actually go to America, because America was better prospects, and it was, you know, promised freedom and rights. So they said, "Why are we going to go to this more desolate area, you know, and it just, that's just, that has already indigenous population who are not too happy about British occupation. Why am I going to go here? Why not America?" And there's, that's why the second most populous place in the world where Jews reside is the United States of America, only a few million difference between the amount of Jews that live in America and the amount that live in, um, the land of Palestine. As these people are coming in now, the Jewish people are coming into Palestine now, we're seeing a population or demographic change. And, and this, if you like, it really does go up exponentially in the 1930s, doesn't it? Yeah. And then you've got things like the Arab Revolt, which take place, which is a very key time and place, which, which forced the British people to take note. Chamberlain, for example, who was the then Prime Minister at the time, then moved on to like, you know, the White Paper and stuff. Maybe I think that was 1938 or something like. Give us a little bit of going, what's happening here?

So, so basically, um, the, the political Zionists were initially naive, i.e., they didn't care about the population, the native population, what they would say or do, thinking that they would just accede to whatever the British, um, give, give to the, the Zionists. Yeah. So they didn't think there's going to be any resistance initially, right? They think that, or it could be easily just dealt with. So this is very, sorry, sorry, but this is very important. So Palestinian resistance effectively starts in the 1930s. I mean, we're talking about new age Palestinian resistance, where there's violence and, or if you like, um, protest action, and there's, there's action against, uh, both the Zionist groups and the British Mandate.

Well, yeah, from 1936 to 39, there's basically called the Arab Revolt, where they, they revolted against the British, the British occupation, and the British, um, kind of attempt to, uh, create an ethno-nationalist state for Jews. And there was no Hamas at this time, was there? There, there's no Hamas. So this is the people that, they're not happy. Now, now the argument initially is that the Zionists were coming and just buying land, and they weren't forcing, they weren't, um, you know, forcing people off. But this is not exactly entirely the, the full story. The full story is, is that, um, they would, there would be a kind of a one-sided market where they would come, Arabs who were selling their land because everyone's buying and selling, you have an equilibrium of buyers and sellers. So what they do is they, they, the Jewish National Fund would be set up, or certain types of, of Zionist funds would be set up. They would buy any, you know, land from any Arabs who were selling. And even if that through sometimes a proxy, they'd get an Arab intermediary to buy it, because many people didn't want to sell to Zionists. So they got an Arab intermediary to to buy it, then they would buy the land. Now, the land has people working on it, right? You might have people who are, um, tenant farmers who are renting and so on. If they were Arab, they would, they'd all be kicked out, right? Because I'm the new landlord now, is actually the Jewish National Fund. You're going to be kicked out and replaced with, uh, Jewish tenant farmers. Yeah. Now, imagine someone buys a, a house of flats, okay? And let's say the house of flats is in, is in the part of London, or what have you, where it's like 60% Afro-Caribbean, let's just say, right? So one, you, they get a new landlord, and they say, "Right, then, um, you know, everyone who's Afro-Caribbean, I'm going to kick you out, and I'm going to replace you with white people, right? And only white people." What would you say? That's pretty racist of you. Yeah. And you're ethnically, you're not killing people per se, but you are in a sense ethnically cleansing, you know, by other means. Yeah, of course. So that was happening. Yeah. And the, the Arab, the cities in Palestine became filled up with, with Arabs who were landless, because they had been kicked out of their land. They were tenant farmers, and they didn't know, didn't know, didn't have anywhere to go. And this became a problem such that the Peel Commission was invest, was, um, commissioned by Britain to investigate what to do about all these Arab tenant farmers.

What year was this Peel Commission? So the, the Peel Commission, I mean, kind of happens after the, the Arab Revolt, and the White Paper is produced, which gives a solution to, um, the problem. That's by Chamberlain, and that was at, at first, very much taken badly by the Zionist groups, who after that had been released, because it wasn't as favorable as they wanted it to be. Then started to ramp up the terrorism, isn't it? And at this time, you had the Irgun and the Lehi, and other groups, which were effectively Jewish terrorist groups, who started to, uh, act in a manner to kill non-combatants, didn't they?

Yeah. So, yeah, so 1937, Peel Commission, like uncovered these, these problems of, um, and they, they recommended that the best solution would be maybe to partition land and, uh, kind of deal with maybe mass migration. Because one of the issues that the, the locals were having problems with, that all this mass migration was coming into their land, to the point with with the express intention of creating an ethno-national state where they would then be a minority on their own land. Of course. Okay. So anyone who lives, who's a native of their own land, wouldn't like, uh, the, to, to know that basically they're being, in essence, rendered a deliberate minority, and they would never achieve, um, kind of political sovereignty for themselves, of course. Right.

So then, okay, so then the British tried to then placate the Arabs in this. To this extent, they had White Papers released, and they implement a policy to, to, uh, reduce migration to more manageable levels. They don't stop it completely, but they reduce it. And how did the, the two kind of major groups, major, you could say, military groups of the Z, because they actually had militant groups or militias, so the Haganah, and the, the Haganah, and the, which is the main one, which would later become the Israeli Defense Force. And of course, you had the Irgun, and then you also had the, the Lehi, and Stern Gang. So these start kicking in, uh, terror operations against the British. Of course, Haganah had a much more considered tone in this, in this whole thing. They weren't as brash and brazen as Irgun and, uh, Lehi. Would you agree with this?

Well, I mean, like initially, they even worked with the British to suppress the Arab Revolt. So they were trained, they had weapons, and so on and so forth. But then they began, um, doing deliberate, um, uh, terror attacks against Britain, yeah, to force them to resume, uh, the Zionist plan, which is to, uh, increase mass migration, and with the hope that eventually they can, the Zionists can get a Jewish majority in Palestine, and then create a, a Jewish ethno-nationalist state where they are the majority. And then probably the most prominent example of that was the 1946 King David Hotel bombing, wasn't it? With 91 people that were killed, civilians, including, uh, British. Actually, there were British civilians for the most part. There were some Arabs that did die, but this was an attack on British people, wasn't it?

Oh, of course. I mean, uh, but not just that, the, they were, um, by the way, sorry, just to cut off, very interestingly, just like we're seeing nowadays with the Israeli Army saying that this, you know, this hospital or this hotel or this thing is housing the terrorists, they made the same kind of argument. They said, "This is the headquarters for the British Empire, or the headquarters for the British, and we have to bomb it because they're there." And in fact, they did the same tactics, with the same tactics of warning, uh, the people in the hotel that there's going to be some kind of an attack on there. And they, they attack, they killed, they killed the civilians, they killed the people there, the non-combatants, and others, in the same way. And these were white people. And I want to make it very clear that the same tactics that the Israeli Defense Force is employing now with Palestinian people, the Zionist Irgun, which was their, if you like, predecessor, employed with, with white English people. Yeah.

And also, what people don't realize, um, because some people say, "Well, um, because the Irgun and Lehi and so on, they were pretty, um, they would be killing outright, and regardless of whether the media would ever at the time would cover it, they'd be outright just, um, killing, uh, women and children, Palestinian Arab women and children." The Haganah, at least, attempted to try to, to not appear to do so. Yeah. But, when in reaction to the, the White Paper, the British White Paper in October '45, they actually all officially joined forces to call themselves The Jewish Resistance Movement. Right. So they, so these Haganah were totally happy to align with these people, right, to fight the British. And, and, and there were even, um, kind of refugee ships, or ships that had, uh, kind of Jewish refugees, where the British tried to kind of turn them around from Palestine to send them to, to elsewhere in following the White Paper. And the Haganah bombed these, these ships with, with Jewish people on these ships, sunk them, and killed Jews to make a statement. The statement was that, "You must allow, you know, these migrants to come to the state of Palestine. Don't send them elsewhere." And what's really powerful and interesting about this is that some of the key figures of these Jewish terrorist groups ended up becoming Prime Ministers and Presidents of the, of the state of Israel thereafter. Like Menachem Begin, for example. Menachem Begin. And Menachem Begin, of course, was part of Haganah, and he was the Prime Minister of Israel and a leading figure in the wars that Israel done with the Arab states, which we're going to cover next.

Well, in, in the history of Israel, you never see, um, uh, any Zionist, uh, terrorist who was even declared to be terrorist, uh, by the British and so on and so forth, ever, and were actually did commit war crimes, you could say, ever be prosecuted by Israeli courts. You get Nazi war criminals being prosecuted by Israeli courts, but you never get, um, former members of Irgun or Lehi or someone ever being prosecuted. But they did call them terrorists. And that's something we're seeing, which is different. When they were killing the white man, they were happy calling Irgun, Lehi, and Stern Gang terrorists. And this was very clear in the front page newspapers of almost all the British outlets at the time. But when the same kind of operation is done to people of a different ethnicity, they don't want to call them terrorists, because now they're, they're a state, and they're not killing white people, they're killing Palestinians.

Do you know what's, what's the irony is that these, when the Haganah and Lehi and Stern Gang were basically, uh, getting weapons and and ammunition, and the British was trying to stop this, yes, so they would, they would smuggle weapons in, and they would hide them in civilian buildings, in hospitals, underneath, and so on and so forth. They accuse, they accuse Hamas of, they did exactly themselves. Well, I mean, you just mentioned they, they didn't mind their own effectively Jewish people being killed in, in the ships. I mean, and we should also point out that, um, these groups and so on, they also, they, they always mention this, this Mufti of, of Palestine having discussion with Hitler. But they don't mention the fact that the Irgun had a pact with the Nazis, which is known in peer-reviewed journals, and they both have the same united objective, which was to get rid of Jewish people from Europe and bring them to Palestine. So they had a reason to unite. So in many ways, the Irgun and the Nazis, I mean, they did collaborate, didn't they?

Well, I mean, what most people don't realize, firstly, so just to explain the context, so, um, uh, especially Benjamin Netanyahu, he claims that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem at the time of 1947, um, spoke with, prior to 1947, of course, had met with Hitler. That's true. And had, Hitler wasn't really intending to kill Jews in a Holocaust, but this Mufti gave him the idea to do so, which there's no evidence for. It's completely ridiculous. And there's evidence to, to, there's well-known evidence to show that this was the plan that Hitler had well before, before that. So he's trying to create a narrative, isn't he? He's trying to create a narrative to blame the Holocaust on Palestinians, basically. And the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem doesn't, is not the ruler of the Palestinians. The Palestinians didn't have a central government, yes, to represent them. Right, right. The, the Haganah and the, um, uh, well, they were called the, uh, Yeshuv, uh, those who were these, these Zionists who were basically settling in Palestine, they had a kind of centralized, kind of semi-government system alongside the British government that was occupying the land. The Palestinians were never, never had, were never united under any kind of, uh, one government or one rule or any of this kind of stuff. That's what led them to being so, so vulnerable to both the British and, um, the Haganah prior to establishing the state of Israel.

We spoke about, just to repeat the timeline, so maybe people taken notes on this, and I do recommend that people take notes of this, that we spoke about kind of like the 1800s, the late 1800s, 19th century. Then we spoke about, you know, the Balfour Declaration, 1917. We spoke about then the British Mandate to govern, uh, all over the 1920s. And then in the 30s, we, we mentioned, uh, 1936 in particular, which is the Arab Revolt. And then we mentioned the White Paper, which I think is 19, the Peel Report was 1937. And then you mentioned, of course, the, uh, White Paper, which I think is 1939, Neville Chamberlain, the PM at the time in England. And then we went into the 1940s, and we discussed some of the things, the terrorist action that, because of the anger of some of these Zionist groups, including but not limited to Stern, Lehi, and so on, they decided to take action. And we went all the way up to 1946 with one of the most egregious, um, actions that was taken against white people, which is the David, King David Hotel bombing in 19, uh, 1946. Now we're kind of at the precipice of the inception of what is referred to as the State of Israel, which was inceptioned in 1948 in May, the 20th. So tell us what's going on around there.

So let's start now. Let's start from when, um, the UN resolution in November 1947 is adopted to recommend partition. Of course, so partition. Now, the Zionists would claim that, "Well, the Arabs didn't accept it, and but we accepted it." So, um, but because they didn't accept it, it's not binding on us. First, first and foremost, they, they had no intention of honoring any part of partition. So, Ben-Gurion himself mentions, yeah, that, uh, they would initially, they would initially, um, Ben-Gurion, who is he? Oh, sorry, yes, sorry. So Ben-Gurion would like, later on become the leader. Well, he is, he at this point, he's, he's the leader of the, the kind of the Jewish government, um, prior to the establishment of the state of Israel, and then he becomes the leader of Haganah. Oh, well, he, he's the commander of it, obviously. And then he became the PM of the, yeah, he became the Prime Minister of. Just for the people, there's, it's a semi-presidential system in Israel. So they have a president and a prime minister at the same time. Yes, yeah. And the Prime Minister has more power than the president. Yeah, because the president is just basically like a figurehead, um, for ceremonies and symbolic. So, so Ben-Gurion, um, uh, then kind of relates, uh, in, we see these discussions of meetings he had with his, with his cabinet and all the people. So we see him discussing that basically the partition was just a stepping stone. Yes. So they initially, uh, okay, the partition will happen, right? That means that that allows them to create a state in the partition, the Jewish partition areas. What is a partition? Just people don't know what this word. So the partition was the initial UN plan was to partition, um, Palestine into two areas, which are, which roughly approximates to allowing the full, the West Bank to Palestinians, and Gaza to the Palestinians, and Jews to kind of, uh, uh, be, uh, partitioned to have the majority settlements and cities, uh, through most, most parts, prior to the 1967 borders, but not exactly, not exactly like that, because the north was still for Arabs, like Jaffa and so on and so forth.

Okay. So, uh, then what happens? I mean, the, the proposal was more land than is currently given, of course, to, uh, Palestinians. Now, in terms of territories, I mean, the, the initial partition had more land that was proposed to the Palestinians than is, for example, now under the or Hamas and all the, uh, Palestinian Authority. It was much more land. It was much more land. But then Ben-Gurion kind of admitted, um, in, in his plan, and, uh, for, for what they would do after the partition has been accepted, yes, is that they would, they would then, um, demand from the, from the Arab Palestinians that Jews should be allowed to settle, uh, in, in significant majorities to make a majority, uh, in like the Negev and Transjordan. He, he mentioned this. Negev and Transjordan. And that if the, if the Arabs in Jordan say, "Look, um, we look, uh, we, we don't want to be a minority in our own land, and so we don't accept that. We don't want to accept any deals, any financial inducements, or anything like this." Then they said they're prepared to use force, yeah, until they can settle and on the entire land of Palestine.

Are we now, before or after the establishment of the state of Israel? Are we, have we established? This is just prior to. Sure. Yeah. Ugh. So this is showing about communications. Ben-Gurion was like, "Let's only going to accept the partition, yes, um, just so that people, um, give us the space to create a, a formal state, military apparatus, a state. Once we have that, we're not going to stop at the partition." So someone will say, "Okay, that's a, that's a pretty tall claim. What's the source for this? Have you got any information? Any source? Academic citations?" Yes, yes, yes. I, um, I have the evidence right here. Um, so, um, Ben-Gurion kind of, um, uh, clearly admits that in, in a meeting with the, the Jewish Agency Executive. The Jewish Agency was the, the government, you could say, um, of the, uh, of the Zionists in Palestine. So it's in, in June 1938, in a, in a meeting minutes, he argued that he talks about, um, uh, where someone says to him, "You know, uh, shall we, shall we like expand our population and transfer the Arabs out of, uh, Palestine by force?" So he says that initially, "I want to do by," says, "mutual agreement with them, when they'll see that they can't stand up to us, when they see we give financial incentives." But here's the thing, he says, "So let us assume that the Negev, for example, which is, um, currently, uh, under occupation by Israel, of course, in, in the internationally recognized borders, quote unquote. So he says, "Let us assume that the Negev will not be included in the Jewish state. It would then remain barren. The Arabs are not capable or or no need to develop and build it. They have their fair share of deserts, and they lack the human resources, the money, and the initiative." This was typical colonialist mentality, looking at these natives. "They won't develop it like we would." And it's very likely that in exchange for our financial, military, and organizational scientific assistance, the Arabs will agree that we develop and build the Negev. It is also possible they will not agree. People does not be always behave according to logic, common sense, and best interest. So they think, "Well, these natives don't see that that us, we, that kind of giving it to us or allowing us to develop it is in their best interest." Uh, then, and here's now comes what the, the alternative is. Um, so, so just like, so he's talking to this guy called Amos. "Just like you, I feel a contradiction between your mind and your heart. So it's possible that Arabs will act according to sterile nationalist emotion and will tell us, 'We want neither your honey nor your sting. It is better for the Negev to remain barren than to be populated by you.'" And then he says, "And then we will have to talk to them in a different language. And we will have a different language, which we will not have unless we have a state, because we cannot stand to see such large areas of unsettled land capable of absorbing dozens of thousands of Jews remain empty." So this is what he, he says. And then he says, "And then we will have to use force, and we will use it without hesitation, though we only if we have no other choice. We, we do not wish and do not need to expel Arabs and take their place. Our aspiration is built on the assumption, proven throughout our activity, there's enough room in our, in the country for both ourselves and the Arabs. But we will have to use, but if we have to use force, um, to guarantee our own right to settle in those places, then we have force at our disposal."

So here was his point was that they first going to accept the partition to establish their state. When they have the state, they have an army. Now they have an army, uh, they can, they can now give the Arabs a choice. They say, "Now, you let us settle and build settlements on the Arab partition areas and take those lands, and you can be with us, and you can benefit from the finances and so on and so forth. We won't, we don't want to kick you out initially, as long as you allow mass migration. But if you don't, then we're going to take those lands by force." And, uh, but not primarily to expel, they said, initially, not primarily to expel the Arabs, but so that they can settle anywhere throughout the land of Palestine. I mean, there are more explicit, of course, statements like, for example, Menachem Begin. I can't pronounce his first name, but Menachem, who became a president of the, of the state of Israel. He had a book called Revolt. The Revolt. And in it, he's very, very clear about expelling with force, killing the people in the villages. The hate he has for the Palestinians. This is something you can get online. You can get a PDF copy of this particular book. Of course, when the state of Israel was established, um, you had, uh, formal, you know, legal things which you can, you can find. Like, for example, Plan Dalet. And of course, Plan Dalet was, I mean, let me ask you, what, what is Plan Dalet? For those who don't know. And tell us now, the exception of say, of Israel, and then the subsequent Nakba that happened. What, what's going on with that? What is Plan Dalet?

Okay, so, so then, uh, so Ben-Gurion first thought that once he, you have a partition, and, uh, and Zionists can then have a state, and the state can have an army, and then they can, in essence, um, diplomatically first try to make an agreement to take over the remaining part of Palestine. But if the Palestinian Arabs don't agree to that, then by force. So they're always going to take it over. Yeah. However, um, because in 1947, uh, because then the, um, the Palestinians basically, uh, you know, they were not going to accept this, what happened was they used the pretext. So they said, "Okay, um, since the, there, the partition has been declared, and since then, there is, um, we need to have an, the Arab, you know, states are not accepting this, the Palestinians are not accepting this, you know, we need to, we need to kind of reinforce our state as much as possible, make it stronger as quickly as possible. We need to make to take strategic land, quote unquote." And so they accelerated their plans to take over the Arab partitions. So in essence, they launched a war, um, in 1947, beginning in December 1947, ending in March 1948. Went to do clearing operations, and there was a plan called Plan Dalet, which was a plan that was given to all military commanders of the Haganah, that they would go to, uh, Arab villages and towns which are in strategic areas, quote unquote, which is basically, um, most of, of Palestine, and they would, um, they would assess the town. If the town, uh, is in a strategic area, they would basically clear out the population, all right, through any means, right? Generally. But, uh, there was unofficial communications, things that are not recorded in such official plans, where in essence, the, the Haganah leaders understood that if the state of, if Palestine was to be made, um, a state, one whole state, like not separated, but everyone being equal citizens, the Arabs already had a majority. Still, they were still a majority of that land. And even in the, in the Jewish partition areas, um, that was given to Zionists, um, there was still a significant proportion. There was 40% Arabs. So the first thing they were going to do is they're going to clear out. They're going to change that demographic. Ben-Gurion even cited that, "How can we have a Jewish state even with only 60, 60% Jews? Even there, they're still the majority, but it's the, the, the Arab minority is still too big." Right? So this led to basically, they called clearing operations. They would go, uh, either they'd give an ultimatum, or they would, uh, if there was any resistance encountered from any Arab village encountered or town encountered.

Uh, they were given full rein to, to just go in guns blazing, literally, um, and, uh, and wipe him out if possible. And obviously, a good book for this is Ilan Pappe's *Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine*. It's one of the staple books that, when someone wants more information on that.

Let's go forward because I think a lot of the, you know, the Israeli and Zionist historians make it out as if, okay, now you've established what it is. You've got the UN who have put this, this, uh, partition plan has been accepted. You've got the establishment of the state of Israel, and then you had all this antagonism, you had all this provocation, you had all these attacks starting with 1948 with all these Arab states attacking Israel. Israel have always been defending themselves, of course. What we've already shown right here is that everything's been aggressive. So, so how would you defend yourself against something like that?

1948, the Arab states came and attacked Israel. So, as I said, so the, the UN partition plan was never respected by the Zionists, um, like, before they even established a state, right? So this is again, in '47, they launched attacks to take, to do land grabs in areas that was meant to be a portion to the Palestinians. It, now, this is, this is, this is without the involvement of the Arab armies around, without the involvement of the Arab states. The Arab, the Palestinians didn't have a, a formal army of any kind. They didn't have a centralized command, right? In many cases, each village had its own separate militia, right? There was no initiation of an invasion or even a land grab by Palestinians into the Jewish apportioned area or the Zionist apportioned areas. That didn't exist, okay? It was the only people that had an army and a centralized command were, was the, the, the Zionist, um, kind of settlement settlers there under the Haganah, yes, the, the Jewish Agency, as it was called. They're the ones that had a centralized government.

I see. So they, they could launch offensive operations and they did into the areas that were meant to be Arab partition land. And they made the excuse, "Well, the Arabs aren't accepting the partition." Mhm. Yeah. But they're not, they're not invading the Jewish partition area, so to speak, that was given to Zionists. So, uh, but they just said, "Well, you know, they're not accepting it," and so they started to invade. That was, that was, you could say the initiation of, um, an aggression. Other than from the British invasion, you could say this was where the Jewish Agency, which would then become the Israeli state or the government, uh, was the initiator of invasions, of actually invading and taking land, right? So we've got 1948. And then you've got the '47 to March to March '48. This already kicks out 100,000 Palestinians out of their lands, right?

So tell us about the Nakba. What is the Nakba? Now, okay. Well, technically speaking, this is the beginning of the Nakba, right? Which is the great catastrophe, disaster, where Palestinians are ethnically cleansed from the, from towns and cities and so on and so forth. Um, and then we have, uh, then we have the kind of the, uh, declaration of the state of Israel on the 15th of May, 1948. Now, this is where, um, you know, like Plan D was already formulated by this time to clear out. It wasn't in response to the Arab armies coming in. The Arab armies, it wasn't a response. Palestinians weren't, uh, uh, streaming out.

That's a good, that's a good point because they could say, "Well, that, that was Plan D. It was a response to the Arab invasions." Which would be historically correct. It was Plan D, it was even before the declaration of the state of Israel as an independent state and the Arab armies' response and the, and so on and so forth. So, um, so they, so they declare, uh, so the day before the end of the British Mandate, on the 15th of May, on the 14th of May, the day before, Ben-Gurion and the, the Jewish Agency established, declare the establishment of a Jewish state.

Now, the Arab states protest against the, um, the separation of Palestine into partition by the UN. And they submit a formal letter. And what their letter offers is that they say, "Look, don't cut into pieces. Make it all one state." Okay? They didn't talk about saying, "We must kick out Jews." No, no, no, no. They said, "One state. Everyone becomes a citizen, and minority rights are protected under a democratic state." That's what they offered, right? Which means that, well, there were Jews living there, of course, after the migration, but they were still a minority, right? But the, the Arab states said, "Look, look, let's not create ethno-national states, you know? Uh, the, the Mandate, the British Mandate is about to end, is going to end. So let's just make a, a one-state solution. Everyone equal citizens. How about that?" Yeah.

Of course, the UN didn't accept that. Of course, and of course, the, the Zionists would never accept that because their whole point of their existence is to create an ethno-nationalist state whereby Jews are a majority in a democratic state, and therefore, by de facto, uh, their ethnocultural group determines the, the, the laws, the nature of the state, and so on and so forth, right? I, I say ethnocultural group, uh, because they've always had this very specific vision. Even when they, they established this law called The Law of Return, you know, where they would allow Jew, anyone who claims Jewish ancestry to come and to return back to the land of their ancestors, right? In that law, and I ask everybody to read it because people don't read that law, okay? Um, yeah, if you, if you can claim Jewish ancestry, uh, significant Jewish ancestry, so your mother is, is Jewish, for example, you can then claim the right of return. Uh, you, you can be Jewish, you can be atheist because Ben-Gurion was atheist. They were socialists as well. The, the political Zionists weren't religious. Yeah, they didn't believe in God, didn't, didn't care about that stuff. But if you are a Jew with ethnically Jewish, with a mother who's Jewish, but you become a Muslim or you become a Christian, you're not given the right of return. So this shows you that the Zionist, um, uh, kind of, uh, uh, goal wasn't just to return people who had an ancestry back to the land. Yeah, they don't, they certainly don't care about Palestinians. They're not included in that. It's an ethnocultural group must predominate. So racist, a part-time, uh, racist, and even religious discriminatory because you, discriminatory because you could be ethnically Jewish but be a Christian and Muslim, and you don't get the right of return to go back. That, anyway, so that, that's a point.

What's happening? Tell us about that. Because so, so then, um, do you have all these Palestinians streaming out of Palestine? You have, uh, you have massacres occurring against villages that get widely publicized. Um, uh, you have massacres like Deir Yassin and others, which, uh, where women, children were blatantly, uh, killed. This is, no one denies that. Um, and just shot, or grenades were chucked into people's houses. So the, the Arab regimes around, and, and certainly their populations, are very angry about what's happening, right? So the Arab regimes, um, are pressured by their people, and they make a complaint. The Arab League makes a complaint to the UN, saying that, "You have to stop this. This is like, you're seeing a massacre of Palestinians happening right now." We're not, they haven't even gone in yet. They haven't even, no entry, nothing like this, right? So then, in response to that, they say, "Right, well," uh, they, they gave that official letter to the UN saying that, "Establish a unitary state where everyone has equal citizenship." And if you're not going to do that, then we're going to do that. Yeah. They don't want to kick out all the Jews. They didn't say that. They said, "No, no ethno-national state. One unitary state. Everyone's equal citizen. And we have to rescue those who are being ethnically cleansed in that land." So that's was the pretext by which they said that, "We need to go and intervene." And that was, that was after all these refugees are banging on their door, yes, trying to come into their land, like, "Please help and save us," and, and what have you. It wasn't, they were saying, "No, don't worry, uh, leave first, and then we will, uh, come in." Whatever didn't exist. Or these claims that there was radio broadcasts that people that was telling the Palestinians to leave their lands and so on, is, was, was false. Yeah.

So now, after this, you've got a series of wars that take place. Yes. We can't go into each of them in great detail. We've got the Suez, 1956 Suez Canal Crisis. Yes. Not really a war. More maybe, I don't know how, maybe it is a war. Well, I mean, I mean, look, like, like this, it's quite, we go this very quickly, which is basically, yeah, that, um, you know, the Arab states sent only a token amount of army. They actually were outnumbered by the Zionists. Are you talking about 1956 here? No, I'm talking about the, the 1948 war when they come in, okay? Um, a further 600,000 Palestinians are made refugees, yes, after they kicked out. Um, there are cities which were, which even Ben-Gurion ordered themselves to be depopulated, like, "You must, you must leave." Yeah. I'll give you an interesting story in, in Bethlehem. Bethlehem, as they say, um, the, uh, when the, the Zionist forces were, were reaching there, they were going to do the same thing they were going to do anywhere else to clear it out. Ben-Gurion personally intervened to say, "Oh, wait, wait, wait, guys. Uh, we have the, the records of this. No one denies they say this." He says, "No, not that it's a majority Christian town, and the eyes of the world, the superpowers are mostly Christian. They're going to react very negatively if we, if we kick out people out of Bethlehem." Right? So in that, he personally intervened, which shows that Ben-Gurion knew what a lot of his Haganah commanders were doing anyway, because we know, because he'd intervened specifically to tell him not to do it, you know, when to make it the exception. So this shows you that they had an ethnic cleansing policy back then. Yes.

All right. So, um, now, 1948, the Arab armies failed to, to, uh, to, uh, to create a, a unitary state in Palestine, and that the state of Israel is created. They were outnumbered throughout the whole war, the Arab armies. They were ill-equipped, uh, to, to take on that. They were outnumbered by their enemy, which is ridiculous. Why would you send all these armies when only regimes would only send a minority amount of soldiers who were outnumbered by the enemy? Shows that they weren't really interested. Yeah, they were just making a token gesture to placate their population. But it's a different discussion. Okay. So then, um, so then fast forward then, uh, so the Israeli state is established, but it doesn't control the West Bank. It doesn't control Gaza. Gaza is under control of Egypt. The West Bank is under control of Jordan. Right? So then, um, in 1956, as you, as you know, uh, the, you know, the Egyptian regime wants, wants to nationalize the Suez Canal. Suez Canal is, was, kind of, kind of co-owned by British and French interests. Uh, the, Egypt said, "Look, this is on our territory. Uh, we want to nationalize it for the interest of the Egyptian people. State. It shouldn't be owned by foreign powers." Okay? So then Britain, in cahoots with France, and in cahoots with Israel, coordinate an invasion of the Sinai and the takeover of the, of the Suez. Okay? There was no provocation against Israel. What's Israel going to do with this? Yeah. But, um, this shows that Israel's main function has always been to, to further the strategic interests of the West. Its relationship with the West is that it fulfills its strategic interest in the Middle East. It's a, it's a launch pad.

Well, I mean, this is the time where a lot of historians say that there was a shift in terms of superpower status. Of course, it's after World War II, yes. And when America intervened, it's effectively telling the other guys that, "Look, why didn't you get, why didn't you get me involved in this?" And kind of put them aside. And that's how the situation was maybe resolved. Many historians would say this is when really the United States of America solidified its status as the world superpower. Yeah. I, I mean, also, I mean, I mean, this is when now America starts to take over from Britain, right? So Britain uses its, it's your pet project, and it becomes now under, you know, it makes a deal with America. It found, found a better, a better sugar daddy, you could say. Yeah. For it, yeah. And so this is, this is the relationship between Israel and America. But this shows you, I, this is the thesis that you're putting forward, that there was, I mean, effectively, you can't make the argument that Israel is defending itself here, because they're in cahoots with two other major powers of the world, ex-empires, and the biggest empires in the world, to interfere in the internal affairs of another country, of a neighboring country, which had, which was nothing to do with anything that threatened Israel. Absolutely.

So then, then you've got something which is very well known, which is the Six-Day War, otherwise known as the 1967 war. Yeah. So then, um, now, like, fast forward, of course, people can research these things in their own time. We're giving them a bit of a, you know, we went from the 1800s now in 1967. So we're giving them a superficial, a skeletal, if you like, timeline so they can do their own reading. But it's very important for people to know at least the timeline, right? So, so yeah, like almost a decade later, um, so basically, the, um, uh, so Israel is, is, uh, obviously not just doing nothing, right? Uh, there is having clashes with, uh, its neighboring countries. But not just clashes in the sense of like, they just fight army to army, because because Jordan's not fighting Israel, Syria is not fighting Israel, Egypt is not fighting Israel, Lebanon's army is not fighting Israel. Israel is launching raids into, um, uh, Jordan, into, uh, Egypt, but Jordan quite a lot, destroying Jordanian villages, like the village of Samu, for example. And, uh, and actually destroying the village, not just going in to, to fight, but they're actually destroying the whole village. They're claiming that this is a retaliation against Palestinian militants. Now, the issue is this, that, um, what most people don't realize is that there were UN observers. The UN observers of the time said that, "We've, there was no known activity for, uh, from, uh, the Jordanian-controlled West Bank by Palestinian militants." Secondly, Jordan itself was trying to maintain the peace by fighting the Palestinian militants itself, and they actually killed more Palestinian militants than Israel had, right? It was, it was, any, if it detected any, would it, would it, would it destroy them, right? So clearly Jordan was, was clearly Jordan had, was, was basically suppressing, um, any potential or any, um, militant, quote-unquote, militant activity by, by Palestinians.

Argued, of course, someone can say, "Well, on the, on the flip side, you've got Gamal Abdel Nasser in Egypt, and he was very fiery and in his anti-Israel opposition. And the 1967 war was nothing but a preemptive strike that attacked the artillery of a nation which was hostile towards Israel. Couldn't someone make this point?" Well, you see, um, here's the, here's the issue, right? Yes. Um, so, uh, Israel is attacking, uh, uh, you know, the West Bank already, all right, under Jordanian control, in 1966, one year before the 1967 war, and they are massacring whole villages and villages, attacking, bombing, constant raids. Yeah. So Jordan complains to the UN, saying, "Like, do something about this, because this is like really horrific what they're doing." Right? Jordan didn't even react militarily, right? It, because it doesn't want to provoke Israel, because it knows Israel's just waiting, right? Just waiting. It wants to provoke Jordan. Then it, because it, because the Zionists have a permanent interest, the whole land of Palestine, as Ben-Gurion kind of admitted many years ago, the whole land of Palestine is their target. They want to take all of it, right? They don't care about partitions, they're just a starting point. Yeah. But Jordan knows this, okay? Doesn't want to, uh, antagonize. Yeah. But the Arabs, the world are angry. Look, you know, Israel's massacring whole, uh, Arab villages. What, you know, what to do? So Nasser is under pressure, yeah, because he's viewed as, you know, as the leader of the United Arab Republic, which is, you know, an alliance between, you know, Iraq and Syria and Egypt to become a kind of one state, kind of. But they're still separate in a way. Um, so he's under his pressure, so he kind of, he rattles sabers, he says, "Like, don't do this." And so he closes the Straits of Tiran. If you, if you see that in the Sinai, it's just, it's on the, on the, uh, east side of, of Sinai. There's the, there's the Straits of Tiran that leads to, to the south of Israel, the south tip of Israel. Uh, the Israeli state. And he, he closes it off as a gesture. And he, and he moves some army forces next to the border of, um, Israel to say, like, like, you know, "Don't do this." And then, of course, America comes in, swoops in, other ways, says, "Okay, I'm going to de-escalate. We're going to negotiate with Nasser. There's a good possibility that he will open it up with negotiations. He's made his point," so on and so forth. And of course, there is, there is cumulatively the case by Mossad, by, um, the, the Israeli Defense Minister of the time, by American intelligence agencies, that Nasser doesn't actually want any war with Israel. Because any fight with Israel, because the 1956 war showed them that they might, they would most likely lose such a war one-on-one. So, but they, but they, they couldn't let the massacre of Arab villages go. So they were going to do a show of strength. Yeah. But there was no, it wasn't an invasion army coming. There was, it was the army was too small to invade. You, you have to have mobilization of your population, mass mobilization, frankly.

One can say, even if they did want to invade after all that's been done, it would have been totally justified. I mean, yes, but the Zionist argument was that they were, they were existentially threatened by Egypt, yes. At this point, even though all their communication, all the Mossad, all the intelligence agencies, and their own defense minister, um, admitted afterwards in their, well, in their memoirs, but we also have the, um, classified cables that they said that Nasser is not intending to fight. Nasser doesn't want to fight.

Can one argue that, well, why did Nasser go to the Soviet Union and, um, get armed by, uh, Czechoslovakia at the time? They were arming them. They had new military hardware and so on. If they didn't really want to fight, why are they doing all these things? Well, I mean, Israel also was getting weapons by Czechoslovakia too, you know? They're buying weapons, they're buying arms to, because the 1956 war showed them that Israel could, Israel took Sinai like that with the help of Britain. If you're Egypt, and these people can just walk into your country at will, you're going to want to defend yourself. You're going to want to arm up. But, but that was never argued that was the existential threat, right? But then, here's the thing, and this is what illustrates that what happened next was Israel's own initiation. Was Israel said, "Okay, they did a preemptive strike on on Egypt." But they took the Egyptian army completely by surprise. Exactly. Yeah. So if, if there was, this is, this is a great argument because if they were under existential threat and the Egyptians were trying to attack the Israelis, then how could it be a surprise that the Israelis hit them first? It's like, look, imagine I'm angry at you, I say I'm angry at you, I'm going to beat you up, and I come at you fist clenched, you know, you've seen me limbering up, you know, I'm going, I'm going very angry at you, and you punch me in the face. Yes. Why did you punch me in the face? How could it be a surprise? It wouldn't be. Why would it be a surprise if I'm ready to face you? How are you punching me going to surprise me? Because, I mean, the way in which all these, you know, these, um, airplanes and stuff like were destroyed in six days, it, you cannot argue that this was done. It wasn't even Egyptian, it was Syrian airfields, it was Jordanian airfields, there was an Iraqi airfield that was just next to the Jordan border that got obliterated too. Even the Iraqis got obliterated. It's consensus even on those on the Zionist side. I mean, they, they'll gloat and boast about the fact that it was a surprise. So sure.

Now, now, so, so then what, what Israel did is now, because of that, they, they took the Sinai Peninsula a second time, and they wanted to hold on to it. They took Gaza. They took the Sinai Peninsula. But now they then they used that as a, a peninsula. For those who don't know, it's a massive, massive land. Yeah. Yeah. It's a few times bigger than Israel. The Israeli state's own control. Imagine now they're taking new land. Yeah. Yeah. You know, which is illegal under international law. And because now, now Jordan was under a defense pact with Egypt, and Egypt's being invaded, right? So Jordan basically just fires a few artillery shots into, into Israel to say, like, like, to make at least a gesture that it's honoring its defense pact with coming to Egypt's help, because Egypt is actually being invaded at this point, yeah. Of course. And then Israel goes, "Ah, now we got what we wanted." So then they invade the West Bank. Yes. "Oh, now you're shooting us. Now we've got it. Now we got what we wanted. A pretext." And they, and they had a pre-prepared plan to invade the West Bank. So that's fast forward. Now, there's a lot of anti-Israel. So this is how Israel justified its invasion. It also invaded the Golan, even though, uh, Syria has, um, had announced a ceasefire. It's not stop, it's stopping its operations. It didn't want to fight. It declared it didn't want to fight. And they said, "No, we're going to take the Golan as well. The Golan Heights as well."

So now, at this point, you know, when does the PLO come into play? The Palestinian Liberation Organization, otherwise known as Fatah. When, when does that initiate? Okay. So, um, this really, I mean, this, this kind of stuff really occurs, um, uh, really towards, uh, the, uh, the end of, of the, um, kind of Jordanian control of the West Bank. Now, because you have a whole bunch of Palestinians now, now are now under occupation by, um, the Israelis. So what year are we talking here? Like, so, I mean, this, this begins after the 1967 war. This is when, uh, a whole bunch of these are people who had already left their homes. They, they still remember the Nakba. So this is 20 years before the establishment of Hamas. Oh, I'm only, I'm only repeating this point because people are going to scapegoat Hamas. But Hamas didn't even exist at this time. Yes. So, when Israeli attacks start, start, you know, attacking Palestinians and wiping out Palestinian villages, even before the 1967 war, um, you know, the Palestinians are, are all trying to organize a resistance against this. This happens in 1964. Okay, the PLO is established in 1964 to be both a political organization, uh, to, um, for Palestinian rights, yeah, right? And, and they're nationalist and secular, just to be clear, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah. They're not, they're not based on any motivated by any religious considerations. They have a mixture of Christian Arabs, as you know, 10% of Palestinians are Christian, yeah. So, um, so in this, actually, they even get recognized to some extent by the UN in 1974 as, uh, having observer status. So they get recognized as a national movement, um, by the UN. Now, the issue is that they, uh, they became a political party in 1965. Fatah is a political party, yeah, to get, you know, Palestinian nationhood, right, for themselves, a separate state. But once Israel occupies the West Bank and Gaza, and you have a whole bunch of Palestinian refugees, did you know that more refugees were created? Now, they were kicked out and pushed more eastwards in the West Bank. So they were already people that had were refugees 20 years ago, and they were pushed even further away, or kicked out to, or they left, or they were forced out and went to Jordan, other places like this. Jordan became so overcrowded with Palestinians, it would seem like about 50% of the Jordanian population itself was Palestinian at one point, right? So, um, they, uh, begin, uh, resistance and insurgent operations against the, against Israel because they are now under direct occupation. Right? Before they were under Jordanian control, where at least with the Jordanians, they weren't getting, uh, racial discrimination, they weren't facing racial discrimination, racial harassment, or so on and so forth. But, but under Israeli control, that's when that begins, and that's when the insurgency, uh, occurs.

So this is where then Palestinians are facing, facing that. The Zionists would say, "What about the 1973 war? Wasn't that a war that was for our survival? We were existentially, um, threatened." But again, that was reclaiming Sinai, wasn't it? That was, that was, yes, it's false. The Egyptian army, uh, wanted to reclaim Sinai afterwards. They argued that they had to regain the national honor because this was a big slap to their face that they lost to Sinai. Absolutely. I think there, there was, there was a lot of like anti-Israel sentiment at this time. The Egyptian population was absolutely outraged about what happened. Yeah. Gamal Abdel Nasser came out in 1967 and he basically apologized to the public. He was talking about reclaiming Sinai and stuff like that, you know. It built up all the way up to the 1970 when Nasser died, obviously. Anwar Sadat at that time had taken power, and it was his thought, and he started negotiating with the Americans, with Kissinger, and so on. And what, what is narrated by primary sources is that he effectively said to him, "We can't do anything to you or for you unless this becomes a crisis in the Middle East." Which means that you effectively need to have some, something to negotiate with. That's when Anwar Sadat and others decided to go into Sinai and not take the whole thing over, just a portion of it, so that they can have something to go to negotiation with. Syria, um, invades, quote-unquote, their own land, the, um, the Golan. Yeah. They want that back. And Egypt just invades Sinai, which was their land. They, they have very limited objectives. They only want to take those areas of land, right? And even then, I mean, even in that war, the Israelis actually penetrated Egypt itself. I mean, Ariel Sharon, he went into what, went all the way up, you know? So it wasn't, it wasn't some passive war, yes. I mean, most would say that, especially in the Egyptian context, that Egypt got what it wanted in terms of, you know, objectives of war and got the Sinai Peninsula back.

But now we're talking about Camp David, and so we move on. In 1978, yeah. So now there's this Camp David agreement. Yeah. So, um, all right, so, so, you know, Israel was never, ever really existentially threatened since 1948, ever. And, um, any of all the things that it does is never because it's existentially threatened. It's because either there's an opportunity to expand more land, um, or it to suppress anyone that, um, is, is identifies as a resistance to it, even if they're not actively fighting with them at that point in time, yeah. So, I mean, Israel regularly, um, flies jets into Syria and bombs Hezbollah targets. No one ever talks about this, right? Hezbollah is not currently fighting, um, you know, the state of Israel, quote-unquote, right? They're not in active war since, since the Lebanon war, the more recent one. But they bomb it regularly. They say this was Hezbollah shipment of arms from, um, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard in Syria. Okay, well, what Syria does in its own territory, not your business, right? But they, they say, "Well, this is giving arms to a group that we don't like." Well, but the group you don't like, you're in a ceasefire with them. You're in, you're not, you're not actively fighting with them, but you're still bombing them. And that really shows Israel's policy is that, "Say, if we don't like you, they say, we're just going to keep bombing you." Whether the difference between active war and peacetime is just the level of military operations that Israel does against you. Sure. That's the only difference.

Let's get to this point of, so we've, because we want to kind of maybe wrap up now. This is, there's a lot we've spoken about in terms of the history, and there's a lot that people have that can take as, like I say, it's a skeletal historical timeline. We've started from the 1800s and we're all the way here in 19, let's say, 80 now. I think Camp David was 1980, 1978, if I'm correct in that. The agreement between the Egyptians and the, the Israelis. And then you have Sinai given back in exchange for, uh, peace, everlasting peace with Egypt and, and Israel. So this takes place. Then you have from 1978, effectively, let's just say you've got the, the peace that you wanted with the big countries around you, all the way up to, let's say, 2023, which is our year now. And of course, Fatah have, you know, the Oslo Accords, and these attempts to try and forge peace through negotiation and so on. All of that, as we've, we've heard from Palestinian Liberation Organization representatives, has not been fruitful. And the Palestinians are becoming more and more angry about this. And then 1987, you have the establishment of Hamas. And so tell us now from the establishment of Hamas until this time, what are the notable things that we should know? Maybe the Intifadas, some of those things, right? I mean, well, like, okay, so, so basically, um, you know, Israel doesn't just do nothing, right? Uh, it, if you look at the history, it's invaded its neighbors multiple times since. Yeah. So it's invaded Lebanon three times. Yeah. Uh, everyone forgets that, you know, Lebanon doesn't have an army to conquer anything. But because there's PLO organizations there, and then later on, the last one there was Hezbollah, they basically invaded. And they invaded again, usually as a response to a retaliation to their own low-level military operations. Because once they say, "Don't, they don't like you," they're going to, um, they either do low-level attacks against you or high-level attacks against you. So in, when in peacetime, quote-unquote, they just do, they maintain this constant background hum of of assassinations, bombing, targeted strikes, commander raids. This is what they call peace, yeah? Or ceasefire. And so when people say, "I'm sick, look, I don't like your ceasefire because your ceasefire is killing us literally." "We're going to protest by shooting a few rockets that are not going to really strategically do anything per se." And then Israel goes at pretext, then raises up to high-level military things to, they say, "Let's see if we can destroy this whole organization or try to change the strategic balance of Lebanon." So this is basically what they, they did. Like, now Hamas rises up in the midst as in the issue of the Lebanon war, and is actually encouraged by Israel. So, basically, the Lebanon, Lebanon war starts in 1982, and, um, it was initially targeted at that clearing out, um, the, the PLO from Palestine. But they commit many outrages, Israelis, and they use local nationalist Christian forces to to fight. So, they, Hamas was found in 1987. And it is, you know, it, as a response to the Israeli occupation of, of Lebanon, which was, which was ongoing at this point in time. And, and it was originally funded by the Israeli, I think at one point, wasn't it? Well, Israel kind of gave, secretly gave support to it as a rival to Fatah, because Fatah was secular, yeah, PLO, by the way. Yeah. And, and so Hamas is, is, it's more religious in orientation, quote-unquote. It was deemed to be a rival to weaken the PLO, yes, yeah, by creating a, by supporting a rival organization which would then later on, it just, they lose control of, of course, because it would then get its own support. Now, Hamas is actually meant to be a political organization. It's military wing, the one that actually does the fighting, is called the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades. Yeah. And they were actually formed in 1988, 1993. See, yeah? That's already five years after Hamas was formed. So Hamas is a political party, and five years later, it forms, has a, a military wing that does the actual, uh, insurgency and fighting. So this is, this is where this happens.

Now, obviously, see, um, then you have the Intifadas and so on, yeah. So, so, um, meanwhile, in Israel and in the West Bank occupied territories, um, you know, Palestinians are under military rule. So they don't elect governments, they don't, not represented by any governments, they don't have their own leaders that can, can, uh, approve building permits, so they can, they can house their own children in the next generation. That stuff. They are stifled and restricted and face police harassment, brutality, killing, um, on the slightest, uh, pretexts, and so on and so forth. So, in 1988 to 1993, they initiate the first Intifada, from the Arabic word to kind of shake off. They wanted to shake off the occupation. Um, it leads to 1,962 Palestinians dead, 270 Israelis dead, uh, due to the occ, the occupation of West Bank and Gaza. That's the key issue. Israel could have simply returned the 1967, um, uh, kind of borders, and not give it back to Egypt or to, uh, to Jordan, but just give it to the Palestinians, who are too weak to make an army and would never threaten them ever. But they don't want to give it back. And the question is why not? Jordan already relinquished the West Bank, says, "I don't want to have anything to do with it anymore. If, any, anything that happens with the West Bank will be between you and the Palestinians." That was what it said to Israel, basically. And there are two Intifadas, right? So this is the first one that you mentioned. Yes. When was the second one? Okay. So, so we have, you know, we have then the Oslo Accords that happens in 1993, which starts to talk about giving zones of control, um, to the Palestinians. Then you have Oslo II, the Taba Agreement, that happens in 1995, which talks about areas of disengagement. So they tried to, um, uh, kind of, so Israel makes this agreement with the Palestinians, and the Palestinians, this is the PLO, the Yasser Arafat. It's very, they're very naive on this, but they're quite desperate. And this is like this, which is, we're going to split the West Bank into three zones: Zone A, B, and C. Zone A, the Palestinians will control the security of it, and the laws, and the rules, and regulations, administration. Um, Zone B, the Palestinian Authority, which will be set up by PA, the PA becomes the Palestinian Authority, will control, um, the administrative and laws, but they don't control the security of it. So basically, a Palestinian government, but Israeli police, right? Basically. And Zone C, which is 60%, is controlled both by, uh, military rule, yes, and by the, the Israeli security forces. So the Palestinians go, are offered a few areas of the West Bank where they can actually control their own destiny. So they jump at it because they've never been offered that before. But it's a trap because it then justifies, it has a signature of a Palestinian Authority to the Israeli control of the vast majority of the West Bank, the Area C, which is 60%, and of course, Area B where where they control the military, and the security operations of that. So the Palestinians have, it was kind of a trap because they've actually signed their own occupation. They've actually given consent, you could quote-unquote, to their own.

The main point is that you don't have them, you're not allowed the military there. Is, you're not, the Palestinians are not allowed the military. But the, the, the Oslo Accords were not meant to be a permanent thing. It was meant to be phases of disengagement, yes. So Israel would say, "Okay, Area A is yours, but eventually, once things are calmed down, we see that it's all working, then we'll give you Area, we'll give you full control of Area B, and then eventually we'll see about Area C." It was meant to be zones of disengagement, yeah. But they could use any pretext to stall it and say, "Oh, there's, you know, one person state of emergency." Yeah. One Palestinian guy's dog bit an Israeli soldier or looked at the soldier funny. This means there's still insecurity. This means we can't disengage. International Jim Crow laws, really, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. And it allowed them to control, um, the, the, the Palestinian life in the West Bank, and in, in Gaza, right?

So let's, let's move forward now to, so the second Intifada occurs, you know, year 2000. There's a second uprising because seeing there the failure of, of Israel to stick to its word to disengage, yes, and give back land in the West Bank to the Palestinians as it promised in stages. So this happens between year 2000 and year 2005. America commissions the Mitchell Report to see how they could, how they could stop the Intifada. How people, you know, died on that one? Um, well, in 3,000 dead Palestinians. I mean, with the current conflict, there's already, there's already more dead Palestinians. This shows you that this, we're really living in a historical moment, aren't we? There hasn't been this many dead Palestinians in a short period of time since, arguably, 1967, or even before, yes, you know, in such a short amount of time. Probably even, yeah, even or even before that, 1948, the actual Nakba massacres that occurred. Okay. So, um, but in response to the second Intifada, at dissatisfaction that Israel is not sticking to its word to disengage, because they never intended to disengage. And there, you've probably seen that leaked footage of Benjamin Netanyahu, where he would talk about how to build, how to kick out Palestinians in Area C. He'd say that the agreement said that the Israeli Army is allowed to make military bases, yes, in Area C, and they can declare any way they want in Area C according to need. So Ben Netanyahu, in a leaked recording, said that it was actually, he actually defined as military areas, and they could be as big as he wanted, okay? And then, then he can, and that was used to to further kick out Palestinians out of the West Bank. So this is what this is what's happening. And then eventually, yeah, um, in reaction to the second Intifada, the, Israel used this as a pretext to start building walls, enclosing Area A's, Area A, parts of the West Bank. And in, and, uh, by the way, they had already begun building settlements since 1967. And 1967 was when, uh, you might say more religious Zionists got involved. There was an argument before that saying that, you know, the, you can't make a state of Israel until the Messiah comes. But when the 1967 war happened, it was argued that this was divine favor on Israel, and then many religious Jews started to support Israel, and that's when they started to be, you see the beginning of settler activity, religious, religious settlers really willing to settle into the West Bank and make settlements there. Anyway.

So, then you've got two more, like, before the, the mowing of the lawn, kind of every two to three years, you have, I'm thinking here, and maybe correct me if I'm wrong, you have two more major events, which is the Lebanon war, is the second Lebanon war with Hezbollah. Yeah, yeah. So, okay, so, so basically, what, what we see is that, um, there's, there's, uh, called, let's go to 2006. Sure. So 2006, 2005, um, the, the Israeli forces disengaged from Gaza. Mhm. Because they had settlement settlers there. It was hard to protect. And disengagement doesn't mean that they no longer have effective military control, because they control a lot of these Israeli pundits and Zionist, you know, people propagandists, they would say, "Well, look, we're not occupying Gaza because we disengaged in 2005." But the truth of the matter is, disengagement is not a prerequisite for non, uh, effective military control. In fact, most of the international law prerequisites for occupation is that if you're controlling the airspace, and you control the sea, and you control the population, which Israel maintains, and had maintained since 2005, of the entire area. So they've got what it was referred to in international law as effective military control, even since 2005. The fact that they removed their, the settlements from there, could even be said to be strategic, because every three to four years, they're going to bomb from the sky. That would be the new strategy, wouldn't it be? Yeah. So, um, uh, basically, there's been actually, sorry, uh, four involvements of Israel in Lebanon, not three. There was the Operation Litani, South Lebanon war, that occurred. I forgot to mention, but there was one more reason to ask, which is the 2006 Lebanon war. So in 2006, Israel does two things. The, the Palestinians of Gaza elect Hamas via democratic elections. So Israel imposes a blockade over Gaza, limits their fishing, limits their getting supplies, and so on and so forth. And then invades, um, Lebanon in 2006, right? To destroy Hezbollah. It says, "This is, this is already after, of course," um, again, Hezbollah responding to Israeli attacks, raids, and so on and so forth into Lebanon. And so there's this low-level conflict that's that's always, that didn't stop between, um, the Israeli army and, uh, the Hezbollah. But they said, "Okay, we're going to destroy Hezbollah once and for all." So they go in, and it's a shambles. They end up losing a lot, you know, a lot more fighters than they anticipated, and they withdraw in August 2006. So, so they've invaded Lebanon four times, in this, in this point in time, an army that, a country that can't strategically threaten them. It's not an existential threat at all whatsoever. And then the blockade of Hamas begins. And here's what you have to understand that, um, Hamas is, and the Palestinians of Gaza have been living under, uh, conditions where their infrastructure gets regularly bombed under this low-level, uh, ceasefire or peace agreement with the, the Israelis. So Israel has this policy, um, called "mowing the lawn," yes, right? And what they will do is they will, um, because Hamas is now the government of, of Gaza, they have to keep Gaza itself weak, and, uh, and, uh, well, demoralized, subdued, well, weak, subdued, unable to fight, yeah. So they would regularly bomb infrastructure. They would regularly bomb, um, uh, Hamas political targets. And there are so many, we know this is recent history now. There are so many different, uh, operations that have happened, three to four years. And this is, it brings me to a point which is, if you're, if you've got like, you know, Protective Edge, and Cast Lead, and 2014, and 2021, and every three to four years, you've become predictable. And you've, I mean, you're, you're going against what Sun Tzu said, which is, "Don't," you know, "push your enemy when it's desperate," or something to that effect. Being a desperate enemy, three to four years, they know you're going to bomb them anyway. So in many ways, what you're doing is you're creating an atmosphere for the kind of responses that they're getting, really, isn't it?

Well, you know what, like, um, one of the, the tactics designers do when they argue this, they say, they say, "Well, you know, like this recent, uh, response by Hezbollah, or when they fight rockets, or what have you, we didn't attack Hezbollah within the past couple of months, or at least, at least the past month. If you go, if you go back a few months, you say, 'Oh, actually, we did, when we bombed this, we took out one target or a drone strike.' But they said, 'We didn't do it recently within the last month.'" But what they're trying to do is they're trying to separate from the West Bank, because as far

As Hamas and Fatah concerned, these are one land, one people. So anything that Israel does to the West Bank, um, Hamas considers to be done to them as well, and and and likewise the Palestinians on the ground as well, and so on. So, um, and of course, likewise, the West Bank Palestinians feel the same for the the Palestinians in Gaza. So in response to to, um, Israeli clearing operations, uh, where they would clear the the Temple Mount and Al-Aqsa Mosque when they have visits by settlers or visits by right-wingers, and and especially those who've been implicated in killing Palestinians. What people don't realize is, see, it's a Muslim mosque, okay? Muslims go to pray in the mosque. It's, um, it's the custodians of it are the Jordanian Authority, right? Yeah. It's meant to be a waqf under Jordanian Authority, but it's for Muslims to use. So when when Israel organizes a visitation by people who are usually right-wingers or others who do it deliberately, they have to, uh, first clear out the mosque. So they say, right, all you Muslims going to pray, uh, usually, uh, usually, um, men mostly, but basically they might keep kids with them or very old people, but they actually go with send their security forces to clear everyone out. Israeli security forces enter the mosque to clear it all out, right?

So I think you've done a really good job in summarizing the historical points. Obviously, the other things that we know, I mean, all these operations, and many people have lived them, so they'll know about them. What we wanted to do in this episode was to give people a brief historical timeline, a skeleton that they can go like, from all these things, we've had to kind of rush it a little bit because we've got a flight to catch, you know? But what I will say is, is, is the following, is that the the thesis or the idea or the proposition that Israel's been defending itself all this time, knowing full well the facts that we've presented here, is an untenable one, wouldn't you say?

Yeah, look, just to kind of summarize everything we've been saying, yes, which is the Zionist project was to create a a majority ethno-nationalist group in an ethno-nationalist state, yes, that would represent their ethno-cultural, one distinct ethno-cultural group by a majority population. So Zionists have always been concerned about demographics. They've always been wanting to say, make sure that the state, the whole land of Palestine, all of it, is a, is an ethno-nationalist state, state for Jews primarily, yeah? Okay. Now, to achieve that, there were many tactics and strategies depending on on the situation at hand, and they've always been interested in expanding beyond that. Some even said beyond into Jordan, as well as the Sinai and even into South Lebanon, yeah?

Now, historically speaking, what we've seen is a very consistent policy from, um, Israel, which is it's been using force projection in the region. It regularly invades its neighbors, um, even those people that oppose, uh, Israel, but have entered into ceasefire agreements. Israeli peace or ceasefire looks like low-level military operations, yeah? So, uh, so basically, if you say, look, I, I disagree with the Zionist project, but I'm going to, I'm going to have peace because I don't want my people to be killed and I don't want to, we want to be attacked, are still going to be killed and attacked by targeted operations, by raids, by drone strikes, by airstrikes, and so, which happened in Lebanon, which happens in Syria, right? Even in Syria right now, even up to Damascus Airport got bombed, um, you know, uh, regularly, um. So this kind of happens on a low level, yes.

And add to the fact that if you're a Palestinian in the West Bank, um, you know, the experience of living under Israeli occupation is like being in a vat of acid. Absolutely, yeah. You can say, no one can say, well, you're in a vat of acid, but who's punching you? It's not the punching that is that is the issue. It's me being slowly dissolved, absolutely, yeah, by, um, um, uh, police harassment, by, um, uh, denying building permits for my, for your, your family, and so on and so forth. To when you, because over time you have children, they need to find a place to live. It's by, um, just being shot by, by police for, for the slightest, uh, concerns that you might be a security risk, regardless of even whether you're a child or what have you. Um, even just recently, like the previous month, up to 20, 30 Palestinian kids in the West Bank have been killed, yeah? That's according to UN reports, even, right? Like, like, like, forget about, you know, uh, uh, IEDs and bombings and so on. So, yeah.

So, so when you, when this is your existence, where, you know, peace with Israel is a continual, is a continual, continually killing your people if you're Palestinians, right? Um, You, and not peace with Israel is, you're just being bombed and and and massacred and and being pushed out. And people say that Israel wants to push out and take half of Gaza now, yeah? Um, you can see that Israel has always been the aggressor, absolutely, because it always has had the same goal, always, which is a majority ethno-nationalist state on the whole land of Palestine. And currently speaking, in the whole land of Palestine, there's 50/50 Palestinian Arab and and and Israeli Jewish citizens. So this is not a demographic that Zionists are going to accept, and they're going to aim, and they're always going to continue to pressure the Palestinians, force them to go eventually by continued harassment, continued bombing, continued, until they give up and they just leave so that they can get their majority ethno-nationalist state over the whole land of Palestine, as Ben-Gurion, as they sent them, right, from the very beginning. Which is why they would never accept Gaza and the West Bank as part of Israel, because then they'd have democratic rights for those 2.2 million Palestinians in in Gaza and however many millions, 3 million or more than that in, uh, in the West Bank, which would maybe make them a majority. In fact, over 50%, they would never give those, the West Bank and the Gaza and Palestinians, equal citizenship because that's, they have to now be between a rock and a hard place. They can't be part of the state, but they, they have to be, uh, attacked and the moon, the the grass has to, they have to be pressured so that slowly over time, Palestinians will leave, yes, and they can get a, and they, they always hope there'll be more Jewish migration. So eventually that they can get a majority, 80% ethno-nationalist state over the whole land of Palestine.

Well, if people have been watching this, and I thank you so much for joining me, people have been watching this is a very brief historical timeline. Each and every single one of those things that we spoke about could have had many, many voluminous and encyclopedic chapbooks and chapters written on them, um, from the 1800s to all the way to the 1920s, to 1930s, and the 1967 war, 1973 war. We want to give people a basic education on this, and I think in the time that we've had, we've done a very good job. I thank you for joining me. I think with this, honestly, with this information, take it forward and make the argument. And because remember, this is an information war. With the arguments that have been provided here, go and do your own research. This is a basic building block, and the, um, if you like, the historical skeleton, use it and put your own meat on it. Uh, because people in the West, English-speaking people, especially pro-Palestinian, Muslim people, and others, we, we have a moral obligation to keep the pressure and change the minds of the people. Do it on Twitter, do it on your websites, do it in all the websites, uh, and using social media. This is my call to action, and I think we need to intellectually arm ourselves. And so, inshallah, um, I've done an advocacy course, which you can find online. I'll be doing more advocacy, Palestinian advocacy courses, inshallah, with I3 going forward. Beautiful. Also, check out my debates with Zionists. Uh, I have some, have some debates coming up too. And Landy, for those who don't know his name, put it on YouTube. You'll see all kinds of debates. He's one of the most premier and fantastic debaters in the Muslim modern issue in particular, and he's done many courses on this, hence why he has so much knowledge on the matter. Thank you so much for joining. Make sure you subscribe, make sure you like, make sure you spread the message and arm yourself with the knowledge that you need.