Transcription
Can you hear me now?
>> Yes.
>> Yes, we can. Okay, we're a little bit late, but we're here. We were just hot messes trying to get on, but it's okay. We made it.
>> Everyone just
>> We're faster.
>> Take a break.
>> We're faster. And I'm sure we're not the only one. I bet you there's about a hundred people sitting in the audience who have had a day just like we have. So, everyone just take a breath. We're here. We should do a meditation before each
>> I know bit of a grounding.
>> Yeah, meditation or a cheers. Let's put some or like put some whiskey in our coffee.
>> Absolutely. That would be great. Um, okay, welcome everyone. So, thanks to those that have jumped on live. Hello if you're um watching the recording back. Today we are diving into support workers. So, this is something that often gets spoken about in our connect group and I know Haley and Tabitha, the plan management team. It's conversations we're having all the time with our participants about support workers. Um, hence why we're bringing it to you today. So, hopefully by the end of this, you will feel like you're a little bit more in the know. Um, and quick thank you for all the feedback from our last webinars. So, the consensus is that you guys are loving these webinars, which makes us so happy. So, as long as you're loving them and keep showing up, we'll keep bringing them. Um, there was some feedback to try to shorten them a little bit, which we'll try to do and we might do the questions at the end. Um, I also wanted to note though, I've split up the previous webinars and I can send the link through. Um, they are now short clips on YouTube. So, if there's something you're like, I remember they spoke about this, but you don't want to go through an hour and a half webinar, they're now broken up into little clips. So, I'll share that with you as well. Um, and let's just get into it.
>> You're so clever, Tara. I think we were all as clever as you.
>> Um, so I am Tara. For those that don't know, I am um one of the co-founders of Kindship and head of marketing here. I think I've been with Kind for about three or four years. I don't know. Um, I barely know what day it is, but something like that. Um, like most of you, I am a parent to a child with a disability. Um, so this is Willow there in the wheelchair wheelchair walker. Um, and some of you may know us through our Instagram page where we share her journey and the ups and downs and little things from our life. Um, and those that do know her, you know that she's quite the feisty sass queen. Um, she has very high mom standards, so she's often giving me life advice for how I can do better, which is really good. Um, and then I have little Indie. She is seven, so she's just had, so Willow has cereal pausy and autism. Indie's just had a diagnosis of ADHD. Um, so she's my busy, loud, let's do all the things and has a thousand things going at once. So her and Willow are absolute opposites. Um, Willow needs calm and routine, so you can imagine how that goes. Um, and then I have Ava, who's my eldest. Um, she's my little mini me, my bestie, and she really keeps me sane, I think, um, amongst all the chaos. So, that's a little bit about me. I'll keep it brief because I feel like some of you are here and you've heard it for the first time now. So, on to Haley.
>> Maybe we should um, put up different photos every month. So,
>> get to see different ones.
>> Hi everyone. Um, my name's Haley. So, again, for those of you who don't know me, I am the owner of Ali Disability Support Services, which is a pediatric support coordination company. And like you guys all here, I am also navigating the disability parenting gig. Um, Tara will show you my brag pics when she flicks on to the next slide. Um,
>> so um, like Tara, I am also a girl mom of three. I have Maggie, Arya, and Pippa. Um, Pippa, my youngest. She was born with a condition called Bemansteiner syndrome. And so the first couple of years of her life was pretty tricky. Um, however, now we're sort of, you know, she's almost seven now, which I can't believe. And so, we're navigating the world of intellectual disability, feeding tubes, um, you know, muscle fatigue and sass. So much sass. Um, and last night I was a poo head because I knocked Louie off the bed. And uh I think she was up till 10 p.m. screaming at me because I'd hurt Blue's feelings and I'd made her bleed and she didn't appreciate it
>> was the words. And I'm going I've given you
>> communication at least.
>> I know. Exactly.
>> I'm like I've given you 150 milligrams of clonine. You're about to get 300 mate. Go the f to sleep.
>> Yeah. Yeah. All right. On to Tabitha.
>> Good morning or good afternoon actually. Sorry, I'm still like, you know, catching up with the morning. Um that I am uh the kindship chief operating officer um and also senior plan manager. Um I also have a sassy girl um who is eight. Um I have three little people um who are all neurode divergent. Our house is full of passion and personality um and crazy life all things you know neurodeiversity school refusal. We have all the feels and all the fights and um but also they love to have fun. So super active ADHD kids that never stop. So yeah, we just keep pivoting and keep rolling with the punches.
>> Yeah, that's what you do.
>> This is you Telica.
>> So in our webinars we always like to just put up forward our you know conflict of interest, transparency. Uh so kindship are aligned with Ali disability Haley um purely because we discovered each other that we both have the same values. So we do not have any alignment of referrals or kickbacks hidden agenda. Um the NGIS is all about choice and control. So you all have the choice to choose who you have services from. We may be kindship plan management or alley disability support coordination services but that you know we will never push that on you. Your choice is your choice.
>> Yep. Okay. So what's on today's agenda? So first we'll um discuss about how to actually get funding for support workers. So I was a bit naive. Willow's just had support workers. I was a bit naive thinking, well, she's older now. Like, it's not parental responsibility. Like, this is outside the scope of that, so obviously it's going to be pretty easy. No, it's not. Um, and then we'll also cover so what they can help with, what they can do, what they can't do, and then where you can get that funding from, and um just how to use them, how to make the most of them, and where to find them. So you'll get all of that within this with these two legends about to share. So I think we have Haley.
Okay. So what is a support worker? Which sounds really simple, doesn't it? But everyone has all these different things. You know, you hear them um referred to as carers. You might hear them referred to as home employees. Um, you know, I refer to mine as Alice, as in Alice from the Brady Bunch. That's kind of like a bit of, you know, I'm starting to realize though that I'm getting to the age where people don't understand my references, which is petrifying. Um, so if you don't know who Alice from the Brady Bunch is, you need to go and Google that. All right, that's that's who my support worker is. But um from from a really I guess clinical you know framework of the NDIS who what did they consider as a support worker? And so they consider them as a person who is employed or engaged to provide direct supports to an NDIS participant in line with the NDIS plan goals and funded supports. So what does that mean? They help people to do stuff that they can't because of their disability. And then in parent terms, you know, okay, so this is probably why I um refer to her as Alice because um her name's Carrie, by the way, but um she now we've got all the Alice memes, that's for sure, on our phones. Um and so they help so when we I think it's sometimes easier to put it to practical examples. So, she helps Pippa to join in and feel included. So, birthday parties are a really tricky um place for her because she just hovers near the food. She doesn't engage with the kids. Um so, she needs that one-on-one um support in order to um join in and feel included. Um a support worker should also give um give kids the space to build independence. you know, we need to find that fine line between, you know, always trying to build skills and encouraging, but there's also that point where we need to, you know, let them actually have a try on their own. So, a support worker should understand ways to build that confidence and that independence. Um, steps in so you can rest, focus on siblings, or just drink a coffee while it's hot. Absolutely. Um, and they just make everyday life that little bit easier. I'd like to see what the agency thinks of that slide, but anyway.
>> Um, Tabitha, so what does a support worker actually do?
>> So, as Haley explained, um, you can utilize a support worker for assisting your little person. And apologies to those who do have adults. We are both pediatric services. So we tend to focus on those. Um but obviously you know a lot of these terms do apply to all ages. Um so helping the participant to join at sports and activities. So you can't pay for the you actual sport or activity as we've explained in our previous webinar. But having them there as that one-on-one to help them engage, help them have a conversation, help them build the confidence to approach other children and engage at birthday parties. It's, you know, sometimes it is shadowing them of just staying at, you know, some kind of distance that works for the participant and just stepping in and just helping them that little bit of, you know, when somebody has their view on how they'd like to play. And your sassy little um child might go like, "Oh, no. This is how we're doing it." And take over my way or the highway. Oh, if you're not going to do it that way, fine. I'm not playing with you. Um, and so part of that is, you know, kid relationship, but that's where a support worker can step in and then help guide that conversation, giving them skills to build their capacity. And you as a parent can then stand back at that birthday party and actually catch up with the other moms. Because that's one of the things that you begin to notice is as a parent or carer, your social capacity and ability to just stand and chat with the other moms is so compromised because your um child needs those supports in, you know, to be able to engage safely and to be able to make friends. Um, and it gives you that chance to just step back a bit and be an adult and have your um child supported. Um, as they get older and their skill set grows, you can then use a support worker to teach them life skills like catching public transport, accessing the community safely, um, you know, in terms of going to a restaurant or going to um a supermarket and things like the next one. Uh, so in the um the daily living skills in your home. So working with the participant through their morning and afternoon routines and helping them with that skill set. So they're not there to be a babysitter. They're not there to do everything for them, but they're there to really understand the capacity. And this is where, you know, it's not always easy to get an Alice. Um, we're fortunate enough that we have an Alice in our household. um or you know some spots and you know some support workers that are really good can read you when the child's had enough and you know they'll sort of push them and push them in you know what you've asked to do and then they can see like oh okay they've hit their limit in this routine you know I'll just pack them and put it in the car because that's going to take some pressure off or things like that. So, um, you know, helping them to build capacity when they've got it, but then at other times helping them do tasks that they're not, um, quite having the capacity to do that. Uh, preparing simple meals together. Um, so that's something my 8-year-old has been working on that she's got that passion to do things for other people, but won't eat the food herself. Um but uh so you know it kind of works that it's like oh you know she'll quite happily make me a salad with the support worker. I'm like great go for it. She won't eat it but you will make it. So it's building that skill set. It's exposure to different foods and things like that. But we have found in not putting that pressure of them actually having to eat it. They'll touch it. They'll feel it. They'll smell it. They'll prepare it for somebody else. And that's a huge step forward in that exposure to it. Then we just have plain pasta and chicken nuggets for her. That's fine, you know, but but building, you know, those um those skills in there in, you know, preparing those simple meals, general tidying around the home.
>> I'm sorry to interrupt, Tabitha, but let us know in the comments as well. I'm so guilty of leaving food play for the support workers.
>> Yes. you can deal with the mess. You can deal with all of that because Yeah. And um and I think that that's the best part though of having a support worker is all the stuff that we go oh because we're so drained and we don't have the energy capacity to go I know that we need to do some sensory play. I know that we need to do some food play but I am done and I am just keeping my head above water. Whereas support workers um you know do have that capacity to go right today you can do the food play and it's it's life-changing. It's really good.
>> Yeah. Without you know constantly wanting to make things with flour. How do you put a scoop of flour and it just goes over the whole
>> Yeah. Uh general tidying around the home. um our specifically morning meltdowns can become quite intense and it's amazing how many things are in their little arms reach of being able to throw it all around and the impact that they could go from one end of the house to the other and just destroy it in 15 minutes. Um and so utilizing the support worker for things like that that you know the child um I mean children in general do cause mess but you know then it's that bit of extra mess and that fatigue of coming home and having to pick all those things up and do all those and um so you can utilize the support worker to help you with those tasks that then increase your capacity as a parent to then spend time with your children. Um in some instances it might be um relevant for them to help with life skills of you know bathing, dressing, feeding, transfers, giving them medication. Yeah. Helping that engagement with um siblings is a big one that um we have an issue with. Yeah. Everyone has their opinion of rules for games. We've got a game of Monopoly going on at the moment which nearly ended in death the first day. Um, but the support worker has now been working with them for a week and a half, just little bits at a time at this game of Monopoly. And it's actually building the communication, that back and forth of discussing rules. Well, what's your way? What's your way? And, you know, how are we going to play it? And that back and forth negotiation showing that people have different ideas. So, you know, communication with the siblings um can really be a help because as a parent, I'm like, I am done. I'm not fighting with either of you. Separate different rooms. That's it.
>> So, they can definitely help in some of that negotiation where they have more patience than us some.
>> I think with the siblings too, like I know when Willow's support workers here, I'm like, perfect, she's taken care of. I'm going to do the home reader with Indie because I might not get that pocket of time again and I know it's just something that I'm able to do because we're not going to have Willow's wanting my attention and needing me at that time. So, um, it's very helpful. Okay, Haley, do you want to do the next two?
>> Yeah, look, I think we've follow um we've covered a bit of this, but I think the building independence is really important sort of as we're starting to get to that bit older sort of that 10, 11, 12 um you know, looking at um learning how to use money at the shops, you know. So, for me, it's it's really good actually. The three of us have all have kids with disabilities, but they're all very different. So, um, we always sort of learn a lot from each other, but for, you know, for me with Pippa, she has an intellectual disability, so learning how to use money at the shops is going to be a huge thing for her on repeat so she's not taken advantage of. Um, and then also teaching road safety while walking. And a lot of the things, and we'll get into this in a little bit, is um because I'm already seeing the comments, which I fully expected, being told, "No, that's parental responsibility." Um but it's about being able to demonstrate where does that parental responsibility start to shift to being disability specific. And um we'll go into that in a little bit more because yes, it is my responsibility to teach my 5 6 7 year olds um how to cross the road safely and what to look at. But when they're 12, 13, 14, 15, that's then when you can attribute it more to their disability. And we'll get into how to sort of really pull that apart. Um learning life skills. So in terms of if we think of everything that we do and sometimes we go too big and we need to remember with NDIS we need to bring it back to that real functional um living an ordinary life. So part of an ordinary life is being able to order food at a cafe. Um being able to if you're out being able to go where is the toilet? I need to go to the toilet. um learning life skills in terms of going, "Okay, I've just come home from school or work. I need to unpack my school bag and wash my lunchbox and have my work clothes ready for tomorrow." So, it's all of that task sequencing. Like, it's we're not talking, you know, trips to Disneyland here. We're talking really practical um dayto-day functional impact life skills. Um, and the other thing is learning safe ways to communicate with others. So, learning that punching kids in the face, which is currently the situation we're in, um, you know, you've asked them once and they've said no. So, you punch them. That's where we're at. Um, you know, because of all those because, you know, that's the default skill. And we can, you know, I won't go into the function of behavior. I can see we've got Sandy in here. Um so maybe that's a thing for another another day. Um looking at behavior stuff, but um there's also that thing on protection of people um of participants in the community. So when we're looking at 15, 16 year old young girls um and boys with um intellectual disabilities, autism, all that sort of stuff, as much as you know it can be uncomfortable to say, unfortunately these um cohort of young people and people with disabilities are way too highly represented as victims of sexual abuse. Um, so it is that thing of being able to learn those skills on and picking up when there's the possibility of being taken advantage of. And we can't be there all the time. You know, this is where a support worker can be absolutely gamechanging. Restbite. Oh, the agency loves that for parents because as parents, you don't need a break. You don't need restbite. Welcome to Welcome to parenthood. Hey, so
>> you get a break while they're at school, right?
>> That's no that's natural rest bite. Who's had that throw that gem?
>> They go to school as well.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember back in the early days and they're like, "We'll put them in child care. That's natural resp."
>> Yeah. Yeah. Sure, mate. Sure. So, um, regardless of, you know, I think we've touched a little bit in previous webinars about what a cluster F, um, short-term accommodation and restbite is at the minute. However, there is restbite available for parents. However, it's all about the way that the evidence is presented. I don't want to give you guys false hope and say right when you leave you'll be able to go and get restbite included in your children's plan. That's not what I'm saying. Um, and rest bite doesn't need to be short-term accommodation either. It could be a couple of hours so that you can go to a doctor's appointment, you know, and maybe grab a coffee and sit in peace. Just that in itself, I know for myself, my mental load of not having to deal and I guess be that one step ahead of Pipper all the time in the community and going, "Oh, when is she going to go off?" It that in itself really helps look after my well-being. Um, and there's ways that, you know, hopefully today you're going to leave and feel um feel a bit more confident on how to demonstrate the need for restbite to the agency.
>> Okay. So, Tabitha, what support workers are not there to do?
>> So, one of the big things is everyone's like, "Well, what can I ask them to do?" You know, or things that people say, "Well, my support worker comes over and makes themselves a coffee and sits and has a chat for the first 15 minutes." And yeah, things like this that the support worker is not there to be your friend. they are your employee but also they're part of your home and they can be spending quite substantial amounts in your home depending on the needs of your participant. So you know whilst you want that that relationship that comfort the ability for them to feel part of your family they are still your employee. So you can set boundaries and you have the right to set those boundaries. Um that you know if they are coming in and sitting down for the first 15 minutes or something like that perhaps that's not appropriate and you should be discussing that with them. So you you don't have to give that that friend field to them. They are your employee. They're not there to be your cleaner. They're not there to scrub the toilet and the tiles in the bathroom. Um, like we said, you know, some light household duties and cleaning up. Um, I found it's actually really great to use the support worker to supervise your child to learn the skill set of cleaning the bathroom. That actually works.
>> Uh, so they act as an allied health professional. So you can give them tasks to build or they're not there, sorry, to act as an allied health professional. So you can give them the tasks to build on skills, but they're not there to be your counselor or, you know, mediator in the family sorting out, you know, all your issues and things like that. Um, a support worker cannot be used as an Uber driver to drive to and from school um it to appointments unless it's outside the reasonable care. So there are some situations where the family may have multiple plans. The parent themselves may have an NJS plan in which case that driving may be appropriate because it's supporting the parent to then attend the appointments with the child and we did speak about that in our previous webinar. They're not there to discipline your child. So we have the way that we've set up our support worker is having the discussions around how our family dynamics work and you know what my expectations are in saying like my children regardless of who you are must always use manners and um you know obviously sometimes in a meltdown you need to let some things slide but just because they're there as a worker doesn't mean that my children have a right to say get me that I want that. No, that's not right. So, but in them guiding them and saying, um, I beg your pardon. Did you use your manners or something? That's not discipline. That's building life skills. So, um, you need to sort of have that really open discussion with them about what you do want them to do and what their role is in that. They're not there to babysit without purpose. So, you know, you can't be like, "Oh, it's date night. let's just get the support worker in because the NDIS will pay for that. Um so they are there for building that skill set providing the support to the participant. Um so you must um you know utilize them in that way. Not there to manage your finances or your plan. So they're not there as we said as an allied health professional. They're not a counselor. They're not a financial advisor. um they shouldn't be utilized for going through the intricacies of your participants plan and how you're going to use your funding, what they could do, that sort of thing. There are other resources for that. Um and then they're not there to act as your PA. They shouldn't be, you know, running your household and doing your tasks and things unless perhaps you are adult participant in that they that may be part of the capacity building role for yourself as an adult.
Okay. 19 still you. So where does the funding come from for a support worker? So there are two categories. So your core supports um which for children is where everyone gets that common it's normal parental responsibility thrown back. um it's not necessarily easy to get those core supports, but that's where you have your assistance with daily life and your social and community participation. There is also a line in capacity building and just because you have capacity building improved daily living doesn't necessarily mean you have access to this line. Um but this could be linked to skill building, social participation, finding and keeping a job. So particularly as the participants get older um these skill sets of building um on that capacity building for life skills. So it's always good to check the plan and watch our previous webinar on our stated supports, flexible supports because that's where you'll get more information in regards to that. And for plan manage participants, there are actually 11 lines, 11 different support item lines throughout um the price guide where support workers can be used. So there's this big misconception that support workers can only be um funded through core. And I think that that's really important to um understand the difference. So a bit of a the difference that I kind of look at is I go core is do for you know even though there needs to be everything that we've spoken about but just for your brains is I go core funding for support workers is we're looking at the do for and then if I have funding in my participants plan under some of the capacity building lines because remember there's act well not remember I don't expect you guys to know but there's actually 12 11 11 different subcategories of um capacity building in NDIS plans and so many of you would have only seen improved daily living and just assume that that's all that's available under capacity building but as your little people grow into big people you're going to become aware that there's actually a significant number of other category lines which open up the capacity for you to use support workers But it is very clear that in that instance it is for capacity building. It is for skill building and there is no um loading for weekend evening overnight. It's very specific that Monday to Friday 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. time frames.
>> Okay. So Haley, where do we find these Alice Alicees of the world?
>> Oh, you've got to kiss a few toads, guys. Um, it's literally luck of the draw and it depends where you live. So, I think the most obvious one is you families can go through an agency and or a provider. All right. So, the benefits of that is that there's less admin, there's peace of mind knowing that um if you're using an agency, they should, and I use that, they should be all very much compliant. So, doing all of the payroll, the tax, the insurance, making sure everyone's trained, um, and matching you with workers that are suitable to you and your child's needs. Um, some of the downsides of this is you don't get to organize shifts a lot of the time directly with your support worker. Um, and there's always, I guess, a middle person which can be a little bit annoying.
>> Yeah.
>> Then we have independent support workers. Now, for me personally, I love independent support workers. that has that is what has worked for my family. Um however in saying that um there they come you know like anything positives and negatives. So you can negotiate pays and hours and tasks directly. So, it means that you don't deal with anyone but the support worker who's coming into your house. And you can sort of go, well, you know what? Um, yes, the price guide allows for 70 bucks an hour, but how about I'll give you $60 an hour and they can agree to that. Um this is also where you use your you might have heard the term platform providers but that's a fancy way of saying um a organization who matches people to um support workers. So the really well-known ones are Mabel and Higherup um and so they um kind of deal with all of the things that need to be done. So, NDIS worker clearances, making sure they have their first aid, but the a lot of the onus is on the actual support worker, not Mabel or higher up. It's not their responsibility. Um, so you do have more choice. One of the downsides that I have found is um it can actually be quite overwhelming putting an ad on Mabel or higher up. Um, this is more and I would say this is more for your metrobased um, families. If you live regionally, I there's probably not much point, I'll be really honest, using Mabel or higher up. I have lived regionally most of my life and so I've never been able to use these platforms. Um, but um, you will get every man and his dog um messaging you the moment you put a put an ad up. And I'm talking like 50 to 60 applicants will come in. It's really overwhelming, but you are able to filter through the crap, you know, and you just But if you are a donkey on the edge and already really struggling, I would encourage you to use an agency until you sort of get yourself sorted and then you can sometimes start to look at an independent support worker.
>> Okay. I found um so I've used higher up to find support workers and instead of putting an ad up myself, I tend to go and direct contact. So I put in filters to search who's available. So search within, you know, a certain time frame or kilometers of my home. I like to look for um for social things for students of OT, speech, psychology because they've got some kind of structure in the industry behind them. Um and then they're also generally younger and more willing to be out there and going for a bike ride, kicking the soccer ball, things like that. So, I found that as a strategy, actually filtering through and searching and then contacting a couple of them has been a lot more manageable than putting an ad up and getting that overwhelm.
>> Yeah.
>> And you can also search like male, female, gender, religion, all like there's quite a lot of filters on there that you can search through. And like I my first search I go through pretty tight and I'm like yep I want this exact and you might only get five people there. It's like oh I can decide from five who I like and and then approach them in that. Um
>> and yeah I found that to be quite effective there. And then we have the direct employment option which is generally something we don't see a huge amount of time of parents of young children unless um there are quite profound disabilities. Um and it's something we tend to see as kids get older and move into adults. But it's important that you know that this is an option to you. So um you can and this is only for self and or plan managed participants. So if you are agency managed um this is not an option to you but you can um it's also known as services for one is another word that's you like another title for it within the agency. So basically what that means is you essentially become a employer um and an NDIS provider but you're only providing services to your child. Um, so that means that let's just say I have a child who needs 16 hours a day of inhome support. Um, and I'm sick of kissing all the toads because the I think and I'm pretty sure Tabitha and Tara and everyone here would agree with me, the worst part of support workers is sometimes the you know they're really hard like the churn through and the turnover. um it can be really hard to get that consistency. Um so with the direct employment option is you become the provider. So you engage them. So you're responsible for paying tax, doing their super, making sure they've got all of their worker screenings, um making sure they have a safe environment, doing all of their training, all that sort of thing. So um there is a lot of cost savings here. most of the time because obviously so if we look at the current daytime rate for support workers it's $7023 from memory. I'm not all over the new Apple yet. Um but obviously if you're paying tax out of that and you're paying super out of that then you know realistically the most that you would pay someone um you have to follow the shads award. Um, but let's just say you might only be giving $40 in the hand of um of the support worker. That's going to make your child's funding last a lot more um and a lot longer. However, it comes with a ton of admin. It comes with a ton of responsibility. Um and at the end of the day, the buck stops with you. So um it's definitely but it's important to understand that that is an option for you.
>> Mhm. So Willow's support worker when I was chatting to Tabitha she's a soul trader so she has her um ABN and her checks.
>> So she would fall under the other one not this one
>> the independent. Yeah thanks for asking that Tara. This is the question we get all the time is trying to understand the difference between someone with an ABN and an independent support worker versus employing someone. So if someone has an ABN and they're coming to you as a contractor, it is their responsibility to pay their tax, their super, their insurance, all that sort of thing. The only time it gets messy is if a support worker does more than 30 hours a week with you, even as a contractor. That starts to get into a horrible gray area with the ATO about whether or not you're responsible for paying their super. All right? So, I'm not going to go into that today because it's not something that I even yet feel really comfortable um wrapping my head around. And it's all and it's a gray area because it says you may be responsible. Um but a direct employer so you are responsible for their tax, their super um having uh workers compensation insurance, public liability insurance, making sure that they abide by the code of conduct. And if and when um registration becomes mandatory for support worker organizations, you would have to register as an NDIS provider under the services for one,
>> right?
>> Very different. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Okay.