Transcription
Thousands of Palestinians in Gaza City forced to flee their homes in the wake of an expanded Israeli ground assault.
The offensive comes despite growing international condemnation. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says 400,000 residents have already left the largest urban area in the enclave amid increasing bombardment. The assault comes as an independent UN commission says Israel has committed genocide in the enclave. Israel has rejected the allegations and accused the commission of serving Hamas proxies. It's also called for it to be abolished.
For more, we are joined by Nadar Hashimi. He's an associate professor of Middle East and Islamic politics at Georgetown University. Uh, professor, thank you very much for joining us. Um, so why launch such a major offensive now when international patience appears to be wearing thin? Is this a sign of confidence that Hamas is on the brink of defeat, do you think?
Well, I think it's a sign of arrogance on the part of the Israeli government and also a sign of confidence that Israel can carry on with its plan of conquering Gaza, but also let's not forget uh displacing uh the population of Ga Gaza into other countries. This is the official uh Israeli policy and American policy. And because there are no significant punitive actions or consequences for the Israeli government, there's no reason for them to stop their genocidal onslaught um against the people of Gaza. So, I think what we're watching here is um horrific. Obviously, um I I I actually view Gaza as the great moral crisis of the 21st century. It's a moral stain on um the international system and it's going to have long-term destabilizing consequences, but that's not going to stop Benjamin Netanyahu as long as he has the support of the American government.
Professor, is Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu taking a big risk here? I mean, there are reports that say that Israel is no longer interested in a ceasefire and the release of hostages. This is something the UN Secretary General himself has said. And we also know that Hamas has reportedly executed hostages in Rafa and in Hanunas last year as IDF forces approach. So has he decided that this is a risk that he's going to take?
I think on balance he um he he actually was just quoted recently as saying yes, Israel is going to face international isolation because of its genocidal policy in Gaza. But in his view, he thinks it's a price worth paying both for his greater ambitions of conquering Gaza, displacing its population and replacing the population of Gaza with Israeli settlers, but also for his own career. Uh because Netanyahu knows if this wars if this war ends, if there's a ceasefire, you know, he he could be hauled before courts and end up in jail because of his own, you know, corruption charges that that are hanging over his head. So Netanyahu has made that calculation and he's going to go forward and he's going to go forward as long as uh his international backers uh primarily the United States but also the West uh continues to uh support Israel. I I also want to add into this picture u the role of Arab and Islamic leaders. Yesterday they met in Doha Qatar. Um they issued a press release. There were no punitive measures, no consequences. None of these countries that have diplomatic relations, I'm talking about Arab states that have diplomatic relations with Israel, have decided to sever relations with Israel, to send Israel a message that it can't continue a policy of genocide against Palestinians and then believe there's no consequences. So, Arab and Islamic countries um are also guilty here in this horror story that we've been watching now for almost 2 years.
I'm going to ask you, professor, about that point of uh about isolation here. Um, we know there's a vote coming up at the UN General Assembly next week to uh the proposal would be to recognize a Palestinian state. Um, I'm just wondering here, does Israel risk uh being shunned the way South Africa was during the apartheite era, you think?
Well, look, the parallel is an accurate one, but um as long as Israel has the support of the United States and as long as other Western countries like England and France and Canada, um you know, don't take serious action um against Israel like breaking diplomatic relations or putting sanctions on Israel. Israel is perfectly fine receiving this criticism. Uh it's mostly from human rights organizations. It's mostly from civil society. Look, a lot of people in the United States, if you look at the polling, even in the Republican party, consider what Israel is doing as a genocide. Uh but that doesn't uh uh matter for Netanyahu because, you know, it doesn't mean that US policy is going to shift. Uh the ruling elites of the two main parties in the United States still strongly back Israel and refuse to establish consequences for Israel. And so, you know, the world can say what it wants. Uh next week at the United Nations, more countries are going to recognize a Palestinian state. But let's be clear, uh, the recognition of a Palestinian state will not save one life in Gaza. So that's how Netanyahu views it. Um, and and he's going to carry on with his policy in Gaza um, as long as the United States is in his corner.
Speaking of US, um, Netanyahu will be at the White House again soon. Professor, how much of a burden is he to Trump and how sustainable is Washington's shield for Israel given global outrage?
Well, I don't think he's a burden to Trump yet. What you are seeing is something very interesting at the base of the MAGA Republican movement. If you look at if you look at some of these, you know, personalities who have a lot of influence among young people in particular, Candace Owen, Tucker Carlson, these people have broken with Israel. U they're asking questions like why is the United States, you know, backing this genocidal policy of starvation um uh against Israel? Why are we supporting Israel when it attacks Iran and other countries in the Middle East? This is not our war. So that is a potential problem for Donald Trump, but not at this moment. Donald Trump is very transactional. he um uh is very much in uh uh the pocket of those people who are willing to back his campaign uh politically and financially and as long as that continues I don't see any reason why Donald Trump will you know change his uh ironclad support um for Netanyahu. So um perhaps down the road uh supporting Israel could be a problem particularly if it you know if we get to another election campaign but not at this moment
right so you don't expect uh Donald Trump to say anything as he visits the UK his second state visit I mean we know King Charles has called for peace and compassion karma himself calling the operation the current operation wrong and has been calling for an immediate ceasefire.
Yeah, I mean I there'll probably be questions at the press conference. Um uh Trump is supposed to have a press conference uh when he goes to England with Kier Starmer uh the prime minister of of of the UK. And so Gaza will come up. But if you listen to what Trump has been saying recently about Gaza, just the other day he was saying that look, I was at a restaurant with some of my uh members of my cabinet and there were some protesters there that were shouting Freed Palestine and condemning my Gaza policy. And then he said he doesn't understand why these people are so upset because he's doing great things for the Middle East. He's bringing peace and stability. And he mentioned the Abraham Accords. So in his own mind, he's being told by his adviserss that backing Netanyahu is going to actually lead to peace in the Middle East. And you know, in a certain warped sense, he's right. But uh the comparison that comes to my mind is Vladimir Putin is being told by his advisers very similar things that his policy in Ukraine and his war crimes in Ukraine are actually leading to peace in Eastern Europe. So this is what Donald Trump thinks. This is what his own words clearly say. And I'm willing to predict that when this question comes up in London at the press conference, he's going to reiterate what he just said the other day in Washington DC.
All right, Professor Hashimi, thank you very much for your time and your insight this morning. Another Hashimi, associate professor of Middle East and Islamic Politics at Georgetown University.