Transcription
All right. So, welcome everyone. Um, my name is The Gendra Farali. Um, and I'm professor of education, conflict and peace at, uh, um, University College London, and I'm co-director for, um, education research in conflict and protracted crisis. Um, thank you for joining the, um, UCL ERIC seminar series. Um, this series is, uh, part of the ERIC research program consortium, and it is particularly designed to promote critical discussions, um, around research, um, um, and, uh, politics of education and theories, uh, and conceptual ideas, um, in the field of education, conflict, and peace. Um, so we have, uh, other series running which primarily focuses on, um, um, dissemination of knowledge that is relevant for policymakers, practitioners, and the wider EIE community. But this, this particular seminar series is, uh, to promote academic discussion, um, in the field of education, conflict, and emergencies.
Um, so we would, uh, very much like you to invite you to share your thoughts and raise critical issues, um, maybe reflect on your own, uh, sort of ongoing work in the in the field as we, um, uh, engage in discussions as part of this, um, seminar series. Um, I would like to thank I ine for, um, facilitating, uh, and and helping us to host this, u, this, uh, um, seminar series.
Um, and, uh, today I think, uh, the this is really timely that, uh, um, we are hosting this, uh, this event that the war in Syria has, uh, um, left a trail of destruction, and the country is devastated and fragmented and economically ruined, if you if you like. Um, and millions of people have been displaced. Um, and approximately 6 million Syrians have been, um, exiled facing challenges to educational access over the past decade. Um, schools and educational infrastructure has been destroyed and, uh, will take many years to rebuild. So even though the fall of the Assad regime, um, and a new political environment presents an opportunity to build a new Syria with an inclusive education system that promotes, um, peace with justice and reconciliation, many Syrian people are yet to be assured that the country, uh, will, um, actually take the, uh, path of peace and and social transformation. So we are here today to discuss these issues, uh, particularly focusing on some of the challenges that, uh, we are we're going to be facing in relation to conducting research in the education sector with the hope of, uh, supporting, um, the educational conversations in in in in terms of rebuilding, uh, the education system, uh, in Syria which promotes, um, peace and reconciliation.
So I'm today joined by, um, three, uh, presenters who will be, um, sharing their brief remarks, uh, and we have a, um, discussant who would be sharing, um, his, um, his brief remark, u, um, at the at the end. Then we hope to have, um, uh, around 25 minutes for a Q&A at the at the end. So the first speaker, I hope he's able to to join, uh, is Rabia Naser who is Syria country research director, um, at the ERIC program and he's also director of the Syrian center for policy research based in, um, the University of Geneva, sorry. Um, the second speaker will be Maria Maluf; she's a researcher at the center for, um, Lebanese studies and she focuses on migration, displacement, and education as well as a researcher on the ERIC program. Um, then we have Dr. Robert Palmer who is ERIC country director for Jordan, um, and executive, um, director for research and program development at the Queen Rania Foundation. Um, and, uh, finally we got, um, Dr. Udai Toano; hope he's going to be able to join as well. Um, it was running a bit late I guess, uh, is a researcher at the University of Cambridge, uh, and researching the potential role of exiled Syrian academics and researchers in, uh, rebuilding the higher education sector of Syria.
So, um, without, um, a further ado, um, I don't think we've got my plan was to invite Rabia to speak first, but I don't think we've got Rabia joining yet, but I would be able to invite him, um, as soon as he joins in. Um, can I invite, uh, Maria, uh, to, um, give an opening, opening remark about seven minutes max, um, reflecting on the situation in Lebanon, how Syrian refugees are thinking about the prospect of, um, perhaps re-engaging, returning to Syria in order to, to, uh, be part of this new, new, uh, sort of, uh, uh, Syria rebuilding campaign, if you like. So, Maria, over to you. My screen. Yes.
So, uh, hello everyone. Uh, today I will discuss with my with my colleague also Katherine Brun who is joining us the ongoing challenges Syrian refugee children face in accessing education in Lebanon and what this means for the future within the recent development in Syria. First, uh, when Syrian refugees, uh, started arriving in Lebanon in 2011, they came to a country with an economic and school system already struggling. Upon their arrival to Lebanon, Syrian refugee children face school interruptions mainly due to delays in implementing educational policies such as race one and race two. In addition to bureaucratic barriers to accessing education such as the residency permits or documents from Syria and the absence of alternative routes to education. Also, the injustice in Lebanon's educational response towards Syrian refugees can be observed from the early years of arrival, arrival in terms of the school segregation which were the separate afternoon shifts for senior students which were less than a full school day. The precluding children from a normal schooling experience and lowering their chances of integrating socially leading to increased discrimination. In addition to the grade misplacement with respect to age or and ability, the lack of preparatory support despite learning math and science subjects in English or French and the language difficulties leading to lower schooling performance and retention rates. When it comes to the outcomes, the restrictions on residency permit and work permits increased refugees' vulnerabilities in Lebanon, forcing an increasing number of children, mainly males, to drop out of school to support their families. And according to Vasier 2023 numbers, 61% of school-age refugee children are out of school and 65% of refugee youth are not in education, training, or employment. And despite all the fundings and efforts invested in the schooling of refugee children, both race one and two failed to reach the 60% of enrollment target. In addition to these challenges discussed, the Syrian refugees children in Lebanon have faced, have faced exclusions during different times of crisis such as during the COVID-19 lockdown. Children, particularly those enrolled in afternoon shifts, were given little attention and faced significant exclusion from education, and their access to online learning was severely restricted due to financial barriers, including the inability to afford digital devices and internet access, further deepening existing educational inequities. Furthermore, during the latest, uh, Israeli aggression on Lebanon, Syrian refugee students faced further difficulties in accessing education, compounding their existing challenges and further increasing their learning losses. They were excluded from the ministries', ministry of education's weekly statistics and emergency planning and only included in the later stages of the planning. And on November 21, 2024, the Minister of Education issued a memorandum limiting school enrollment to Syrian refugee students only with a valid residency permit or UNHCR ID. And to note that as per the Vasier numbers, only 20% of all the Syrian refugees who are holding legal residencies in Lebanon and 80% are lacking these valid residencies. And now what's the situation with more than 40,000 Syrian students are lacking valid residency. The enrollment figures among them in the afternoon shifts has dropped from 156,000 to 112,000 for the recent academic year and because of the refugee returns to Syria with more than 350,000, uh, return, uh, has led to a fewer afternoon shift schools and reduced the UNICEF funding. On the other hand, more than 50 local organizations and UNICEF have supported undocumented Syrian children for more than seven years, helping them access diverse educational environments. Now, how the recent developments in Syria will impact our research, ERIC research, due to the limited focus on Syrian refugees during Israeli aggressions on Lebanon despite the increasing, increasing restrictions on education access. To address this, our research will include a dedicated case study on Syrian refugees, ensuring adequate sample size and representation of marginalized groups. And we will explore refugees' perspectives on returning to Syria and their expectations for their children's education whether in Lebanon or in Syria. And I will conclude my presentation with a few reflections from Syrian refugees gathered during our ongoing fieldwork offering firsthand insights into their experiences and perspectives. For example, one Syrian father told us that he refused, uh, returning to Syria because of the recent gloomy situation there. However, a Syrian mother told us that, uh, she will return to Syria this summer because she missed her country but, but her, but her daughter is, and her daughter is unable to enroll in a university in Lebanon due to lack of legal residency. Also, she, she's feeling now the increasing restrictions on Syrian people recently in Lebanon. And another Syrian mother preferred to, uh, stay between Lebanon and Syria since the education in Lebanon so far for her children is going well and it's much better, uh, than in Syria. And thank you so much for your attention.
That's wonderful. Thank you, Maria, for for giving that very useful background and, uh, and I quite like the the last slide where, um, you presented, um, some of the perspectives of Syrian parents in relation to what they are thinking about, um, um, you know, in in terms of returning to Syria. And I think we will come back to that in terms of the research need and and, um, and what are the sort of changing political environments in Syria would allow them to make those decisions and the changing educational, um, sort of situation in in Lebanon that continues to impact on their on their lives. I think this leads nicely to, um, um, to to Rabia. Um, and I would like to invite you to, um, share your remark, uh, in terms of, uh, um, how, uh, the conversations around, um, return of, of Syrians, uh, back home and, uh, continuation of, uh, uh, their education, um, if that happens. And yeah, could you could you share with us your, um, your remark, um, around around that before we move to the next speaker, Rabia?
Uh, thank you, Tendra. Thank you, everyone, and, uh, I'm so sorry for, uh, this, uh, technical problem. Uh, I thought the proxy is working, and it appeared that we have some technical problem for that. So I'm sorry for this delay. Um, now, uh, I want, uh, to share with you, uh, some, u, reflections on the current situation, uh, from, uh, knowledge, um, research knowledge reduction and research and also from the challenges, uh, in the on the policy level regarding education in Syria. And, um, I, I will start by my mention the, uh, the accumulation and legacy of conflict and which which many times in the reconstruction, uh, many, uh, actors start to or stakeholders they start to look at the final picture which is the, u, for example, the enrollment in 2024 which is almost, uh, 60 to 65%, uh, for the basic education while, uh, we have to know that there's 14 years of losing almost half of the children at the the age of basic education; they lost their enrollment. So we have more than 40 million years school student, uh, that have been lost during the conflict. So this is to start with as as an accumulation of of the losses. We can associate this losses between the enrollment, the losses of life of children, students, and teachers, the losses of infrastructure and the, uh, the the huge, uh, uh, losses, uh, regarding the displacement, uh, of the children and teachers and families within the country and outside. And I will mention that on average there is, uh, in the neighboring countries there is half of a generation also, uh, deprived from accessing to education during the conflict. So this is a huge responsibility; it creates a lot of of, uh, pressure on any authority and any policy to handle this, and I think research needs to address this in a very, uh, in in-depth understanding and diagnose the situation, uh, not just from a technical education point of view but also from a political economy point of view which will lead me to the second point which is the, uh, the the key issue, the key dangerous part of the loss of the conflict is, uh, political/social, uh, impact because the governance of education starts to fuel the conflict. It's it has been used as a collective punishment for the societies, communities across the conflict and across the across the borders. The, uh, education has been targeted directly or indirectly, uh, as a collective punishment, and there is many, uh, u, uh, distortion of the governance by, uh, either fueling some ideologies or hate, hate for the others or polarization, uh, or by preventing people from having similar access. So discrimination in accessing to education, uh, based on political, uh, religion, ethnical, regional, class, uh, uh, aspects or or backgrounds. So with this huge, uh, accumulation, uh, and I will I focus directly on the challenges. Now if we don't have the understanding of education as part of the political and social and economic development, we will end up by, uh, having a reconstruction by the World Bank to the schools and re, some rehabilitation for teachers without, uh, managing to, uh, to see how the roots of of the conflict has been planted in the education and connected with the dynamics within within the education system and between this the relation between education system and society. I think the research on this part is very difficult, especially when you start the reconstruction; the people start to tend to forget or try to deny, uh, to understand and to diagnose the complications and dynamics of the conflict and to see the connection. For example, between the lack of education and health, the lack of education and citizenship, the lack of education or the quality of educ the poor quality of education and inequality. So I think the research here needs to be very serious in in understanding these kinds of of dynamics. The second point is the the expectations. It it's very important to establish, uh, an inclusive, uh, space with the participative approach to engage as much as the authority can in terms of expertise societies to rebuild together because this huge amount of of burden cannot be dealt with loans or with, uh, a centralized, uh, government. This needs to be, uh, a participatory governance with a lot of evidence-based. So research is very important; data systems, uh, are very important, but engaging with societies is very important. This space needs to be protected. So far, uh, we can see, uh, that inclusivity is part of the new governance. We can't see also the respect of the connection with of education with development with the vision of the country with the values. We can see a lot of quick decisions like, uh, uh, get rid of excess, uh, people in the education sector within 3 to 4 weeks with a quick evaluation, uh, changing the curricula in in very controversial changes in in many aspects. I mean, aside from, uh, removing, uh, any symbols, uh, based on or regarding the Assad regime. So this is as as a part of the transformation; it needs to give space, participatory inclusivity to start to think about this long-term change which affects the lives of of the children; also understanding how to deal with the people who who lost the the opportunity; now they are not children anymore; this is another burden; how to to deal with this and I don't think here loans, for example, or money or investment only will will will create the solution. We need to have the participative approach with the communities to create solutions and innovative approaches how to deal with this people who lost the the chance. The traditional education cannot be, uh, the solution in this regard. So how this can be created as as an alternative. The third point is about inequalities, uh, as we many people talk about transitional justice; this is you have to put your tradeoffs. If your priority is to bring the schools back, this is one priority if if you think from from, uh, technical educational point of view or bring enough teachers now for for the for the current generation or you want to have more solidarity. I mean this is not just a zero-sum game. This is but where is your focus? Do you want to focus on more solidarity within the people or you want to be efficient in creating more readiness for the education sector? I think yeah, that's a that's a great, great point. I think Rabia for the respect of time; I think we can come back to this this idea later in the Q&A, but I think it's a very nice way of wrapping up your your your remark where you are pointing out that there is a need for participatory, um, and and dialogic process of thinking about the kind of education system that is necessary rather than making ad hoc decisions where diversity and inclusion, um, should be at at the forefront. So, I'm going to have to I'm going to have to maybe move to the next speaker, I'm afraid. Um, we will come back to this question, um, a bit later and and you will have the opportunity to to make your further, um, explanations to your remaining points. Um, so can I actually go to, um, uh, Rob now from, um, Jordan, uh, where a similar sort of situation as in, uh, in Lebanon but different sets of challenges, um, um, to to, uh, present his his thoughts here. Rob.
Hi everybody. Um, just so to give you some quick background on Jordan and the Syrian refugee issue. So a country of 11 million, 1.3 million Syrians in the country, a large chunk of the population, um, most 90% or so of the Syrians in the country are not in refugee camps. Okay? So they're spread around, um, the cities, mostly in the north and middle of the country. Um, at the beginning of the the refugee crisis, the the government responded, um, as quickly as it possibly could to open up the public schooling system for refugee students. Um, there were fee exemptions, provision of school books, uh, taking on board, uh, teachers on temporary contracts and trying to reduce enrollment requirements for the Syrian students, um, and and, um, most of the students that go to school go to government schools, either single or double shift schools; obviously there's challenges; there's challenges in terms of continuity, uh, particularly when it comes to transition, so transitions from primary to secondary of Syrian refugee students, um, the dropout rate is quite high, um, and also problems of transition into vocational training and into higher education as well, and also the reach of non-formal provision is is not sufficient.
Um, in terms of the quality of of education, um, you know, double shift schooling comes with a lot of its own challenges in terms of resources, infrastructure, the amount of instructional time that students get with this kind of, um, schooling operation. Um, just a quick word on the, um, aid and financing infrastructure. So back in 2016 there was an agreement called the Jordan Compact which was between the international community and the government of Jordan, and actually this the the compact was very clear on the nature of the burden-sharing relationship. Right? So in the Jordan Compact it was very clear that the government was committing to providing educational services and the international community was committing to pay for this. Um, the the very last line of the Jordan Compact is one that people seem to keep forgetting which is that, um, there was an agreement that the government will be able to implement, um, the response plan, including for education, in proportion to the resources that the international community could provide. So there's a whole bunch of, um, donors in in this in the space. Um, there's there's there's five different grant modalities that support the Syrian refugee education in addition to, um, several loans which directly or indirectly or partially support either Syrian refugees or the host communities. And of course, this is money that Jordan has to pay back. Right. So this is actually technically a contribution from the government of Jordan. And and on that that note, I mean, by some estimates, the Jordan is Jordan is actually contributing around 60% of the total cost of of hosting Syrian refugee, um, education in the country.
Um, now, so okay, 10 years on from the Jordan Compact, where are things and what's going forward? So, so while the international community still, uh, appears very much committed to the principles of burden sharing, then the the facts show that that you know the the response plan, including for education, has consistently been underfunded every single year since it started, and that means the government is taking on a lot more of the burden than than, um, was originally agreed. So looking forwards, um, so really uncertainty is the buzzword right now. There's so much uncertainty about the numbers that will go back to Syria, when they'll go back, how many will stay, how long those that stay will stay for. Um, for the Syrian refugees in the country, there's uncertainty about what they might return to. Jordan still doesn't have these go and see visas which other other refugee hosting countries have. Um, for the donor countries there's uncertainty about their own diminishing budgets and what that means in a context of expanding regional and global crises, and of course the government; there's uncertainty about all of this and more right in terms of returnees, um, so the UNHCR, uh, registered refugees about 5% have returned since December, um, and there was an intention to
Return survey done, um, in January, which which said that so 40% of those surveyed said that they intended to return in the next 12 months. So this is a big number, a big, big proportion. Whether that proportion will actually really go back or not, we have to wait and see. And, of course, a big milestone is going to be the end of the current school year. Even if that 40% go back, 60% are intending to stay in 2026 and beyond. Okay.
So what does that mean? So, in terms of Jordan's position on durable solutions, then I mean there are a couple of statements recently from Jordan's foreign minister, which which which makes Jordan's position quite clear. Jordan is is very, very committed to upholding its commitment, um, to host refugees, to make the the stay in Jordan as dignified as possible. But ultimately, um, you know, the the the view is that, you know, Syrian refugees need to return back in a in a voluntary and safe manner.
So, in terms of of of, you know, questions around financing and other issues, there's a lot of things which which this um these issues um um, you know, give rise to. So, thinking about the international community's continued underfunding, right? What relationship, what impact will this have on the relationship with the government of Jordan going forwards? Will this lead to reversals in policies going forwards? You know, there's only so much the government can take, um, in terms of being able to finance things, um, in the current burden-sharing relationship. What options does the government have going forward in in light of this year-on-year reduction? And where does that leave the principle of burden sharing? Um, um, could development partner funding be used in a more efficient way? Um, and does there need to be a new compact? You know, I mean, the last Jordan compact was 2016, 10 years ago, a very, very different context. Does there need to be a new kind of um political agreement about movement going forward? Um, and and um, you know, to be accompanied by a financing commitment in terms of um um type or focus of support. What new pathways for Syrian refugee education exist in Jordan, given that there is this this real opportunity now of of return, that there's 40% of registered refugees are are intending to return? What does that mean for what should happen in Jordan going forwards for those refugees here? Should there be a shift in the type of educational support which is provided to these refugees in Jordan, um, with a view to easing their transition back? So I I'll end there. Just wanted to throw out a few questions and and um looking forward to some discussion. Thanks. Great. That's wonderful. Thanks, Rob.
And I think, uh, what is um increasingly so is this, uh, the unknowable future, as Sarah Dryen Peterson calls it, about the future trajectories of refugees, um, in relation to what is happening in Syria. Now, it adds another level of complexity and, if you like, more radical uncertainty in terms of the kind of education that that would be needed and perhaps, um, um, you know, after the fall of the Assad regime, now Syria potentially as one of the partners in conversations about um what kind of educational arrangement is possible for for refugees who will likely return or those who actually choose to stay in in Jordan. So, thanks very much for that remark. Really, really helpful.
Um, so finally, I would come to Udai, um, for a a sort of critical remark on uh um some of the um ideas that have been shared uh here and and Udai, you've been involved in uh research uh on education in in Syria. Uh, it it would be really interesting to hear from uh from you around what prospects um lie ahead, uh, in terms of the complex political terrain that Syria is experiencing now, uh, and the potential return of refugees, uh, in in the coming months and years. Um, thank you to Chantra. Just to confirm, can you hear me? Yes. Okay, perfect. Um, and just also before I share my reflection, I just want to encourage uh colleagues to put their questions in the Q&A so that I can later be able to monitor them and answer them. Um, so that's just a very quick thing. So um, thanks for the panelists for their insightful uh, presentations and you you asked what the prospects are. I think it's um, the question of what the prospects are is a very complex question. I don't think um we can answer it, or I personally can answer it, but we can we can try to examine this prospect. We can try to wonder and ask questions about um these prospects.
So when I was um hearing um Robert and Maria about the return of refugees, I I was thinking of the socioeconomic and political factors in both the host and Syria that will impact um their return. Um, are they going to face a new uprooting after they built for 14, 13 years a new life there, where they will be going going back to their homes that have been destroyed, to their cities that have been changed, to their social network that has been dismantled? So there's a question of uprooting there that's part of the prospect that we need to be prepared for, and what system is in place um for them in Syria that corresponds to their new reality and their new lived experience as related to their um home country. Um, what about the social dynamics when they return to Syria? Are we going to have a new hierarchy and politics of belonging um between those who stayed and those who left, between those who are refugees and returned and those who are not? So what, how the social dynamic will respond to this new reality, the reality of return, return to to Syria. So this is more about the sociopolitical and economic um factors.
Um, but when I focus and zoom in on their education, Rabia mentioned a lot about the logistical barriers or the difficulties um in the education system um and how that will impact their return um to Syria. Are there any legal barriers, um, being in a, coming from a different education system? Uh, some of them might um have documents, some of them might not have documents. So there are all of these questions um about their return, and here I will focus more on Syria to link with what Rabia was was um speaking about. Um, Syria, we have this governance problem in Syria. We have a fragmentation, different de facto authorities, different um governance, different curricula. So we have a problem of governance that in Syria we need to be considering and thinking of um that could not only support refugees in their return but also the Syrian communities who lost their chances for education. We have a problem of funding, a big problem of funding. Um, and this is also will impact the prospect. Um, there's a problem of human capacity, a shortage of teachers. Um, for example, um, that we might have a return of uh, teacher refugees from Jordan and Lebanon that might help to fill the gaps in the education system. But we have just a human capacity of managing the education system. All expert, or a lot of them have left the situation in Syria, and people of Syria, they still have strong expertise from the lived experience of being in a conflict, but there is still this human capacity uh um thing to consider, um, and there's the question of higher education, which is missing right now from this conversation. I understand it might be out of scope, but we need to consider what about the role of higher education, how can we, how the higher education can support building human capacity that can take local, genuine ownership of the Bush recovery process rather than counting on um external actors and external experts. So there is this question and and all of that we need to think of it of the global political dynamics that we're we're having right now. We have a Trump era where we have US aid removing their funding from um um from the from um very needed society, marginalized societies, um, and that is pushing a lot of government. We're seeing them withdrawing and and giving up on their um uh commitments to international development. So we have these big questions um and about aid, about the politicization of aid, about the donors' fragmentation and different red lines in Syria, how that will impact the recovery of the education system, the sanctions, a big topic right now we're struggling from in Syria. All of these big questions, they impact the prospect, and that's why I can't predict, but I can think of all of these factors that we need to think of. I'll stop here to leave um as much room for Q&A and I hope these kind of things also could spark the conversation. Um, so um Tjandra, I think me and you we need to facilitate the Q&A, please lead, um, and I'll I'll jump in and support you as well.
Yeah, sure. Yeah, thanks very much, Udai. I think uh those are very um interesting and very powerful critical questions that we should be engaging in. Um, thanks for for that remark. Um, and I think um uh, you know, it's it's about the future, isn't it? So what the future is um um being imagined, but it is not clear and it's very complex, um, and and how do we address um uh different aspirations, particularly the um the fragmentation of education across Syria, um as well as the the refugees uh who are living in different countries in the neighborhood, uh, being uh, you know, accessing different forms of education or not. Um, and and how do we reconcile that and how that is accounted for um in the new conversation about rebuilding the Syrian education system? That seems to be the kind of kind of a a focus of attention of uh all Syrians who are living outside or have been internally displaced. About 7 million Syrians have been internally displaced and and um and also many of them who would want to go back to have nothing to go back to. Right? So that's another kind of massive, massive challenge. So to just assume that the uh dictatorship has fallen and therefore refugees would return home is a kind of a pipe dream that that might be affecting the kinds of policies that host countries might be adopting. So that's wonderful. So, I'll just uh open up for Q&A. We've received a number of questions from participants um here. Um, we also have Katherine, uh, uh from uh uh if if we could give Katherine uh access to the panelist, please, who would be joining with Maria to respond to any any questions related to to Lebanon. Um, so, we got a question uh for Maria. Um, uh what is, in your opinion, is the priority for education provision? Is it improving access to education programs, formal and nonformal, in Lebanon, or should the focus be on Syria now? So that's the first question um to to Maria. If Katherine can join in, she could also respond as as necessary.
Thank you so much for this interesting question, and I will answer on behalf of myself and my colleague Katherine as well. So it's uh we think that it will be a long uh process, and it will take a long time for Syrian refugees to return. So while we need to think of how to prepare for return, it's also very important to keep the focus on the need to continue to work for access of for access and quality, uh, for Syrian children in Lebanon to education. Also, if you want to highlight the teachers um uh case, they they have not been able to teach in Lebanon. So, more emphasis on how to prepare Syrian teachers in Lebanon for teaching as well. Uh, but very important uh not to uh to forced uh to forced return.
Great. And I think there's another relevant question here. Um, I believe Maria, you presented um the plan for conducting research in in relation to what are the what are the perspectives of Syrian refugees in Lebanon in terms of their return? But there's a question around did the research include any figures on the percentage of uh intentions to to return? Um, anything that you want to share? Maybe you don't have the percentage, but uh any any more deep insights you can share around what what do you think is the level of sort of intentions among the Syrian refugees um to return to Syria?
Yeah, thank you. Thank you as well for this question. So far, we are doing qualitative uh uh interviews, uh, so we don't have numbers and uh but in general, if we want to talk generally, and I can compare uh the ongoing fieldwork uh now with the previous fieldwork that we did in year 2020, 2021 for a previous uh uh project that we can see so far uh with the uh little now interviews we we already gathered that the perspectives for return are a little bit changing. But as Udai said and highlighted, there are lots of there are lots of factors that Syrian refugees are taking into consideration to think about the return uh or not.
Okay, great. Um, Katherine, would you want to add anything to that?
No, I think that's all good. Thank you.
Perfect. Yeah, thanks very much. And I think there's a question to um I guess Rabia or or Udai or everyone around the around the new curriculum um that uh you know uh is it too early um to to grasp the kinds of changes that are happening in the curriculum? Um, and I know that there were some contestations around u the removal of some of the um the signs and symbols that refer to the the previous regime, but um but it wasn't necessarily done through a consultative process. Any insights um that you could share Udai and Rabia, of course, of course, and um Rabia, feel free to also step in.
Um, so basically, one of the things I worked with Rabia in the past month is we downloaded all curriculums. We downloaded all changes. We looked at them one by one, and we try to understand the discourse that it's supporting, and we try to understand what that means to the Syrian society from an angle of social justice and peace and so on. And um we have I I have some brief to share, but I think the topic of curriculum it's a big topic that maybe I'll share the report later for those who want to really understand the nuances of it, but there are some observations. One of them that there's um a trend toward um there's a political discourse that being served, and this political discourse linked to removing Assad things, and this is not controversial. Everyone in the Syrian context agrees with this, but there's a political discourse that people felt um not happy with, that there's an a denial of the previous Ottoman Empire crimes in Syria that has been seen, been seen as using education for political purposes to um to to not have any issues with Turkey with that political dynamic. So we have this political um kind of discourse. We have a political discourse related to deleting things related to Arab unity and nationalism and Palestinian resistance. But these things were linked to Assad's narrative as well. But at the same time, they have been taken from the curriculum. Now there's a religious discourse that being used. There's more towards um um using um Islamic interpretation of certain things. Um, so some people would have thought that, oh, oh, that the new government is taking uh female figures out, and there's also that gender dynamic. And I don't think we we found this. Um, there was an an attempt to remove a historic figure, a female, from the religious curriculum because she has nothing to do with the religion book. So we have also these kind of things. But there are also a move towards using Islamic ways of thinking and being and reflect this in the curriculum. For example, the evolution theory. Everything about the evolution theory has been taken from the science. We have some poetry that could be considered not very much going, not a poetry that could be problematic in in in certain interpretations of Islam. So that also has been taken. Anyway, what I'm trying to say, this is a very complicated topic, and I'm happy to share with Rabia later on the full report, and maybe Rabia can touch very briefly not on the content but on the process of how this curriculum change happened and why this led to a backlash in the society.
Yeah, Rabia, would you like to briefly comment on that? But also we've got a couple of questions for you around um how the World Bank might cooperate with the political context and technical needs of educational reform in promoting inclusivity. Uh, but also who um what are the capacities that the education system is needed to to transform u the kind of situation that you described.
Yeah. Thank you, Tjandra, and uh and for the old questions and today um I I will come back to what I mentioned as as an a new inclusive approach or the space because I think uh it's very important to start an inclusive way to gain social support for the new authority because now there is a lot of I mean uh optimistic about the fall of Assad regime, which I think all the Syrian see it as as a historical move moment for for all of us. However, if the the way of uh doing the uh or conducting the uh the the authority uh will continue in this way uh this will will make the people I mean losing their faith in in this. So the trust in the institutions I would say is the crucial for the curriculum and for rebuilding the education sector, and this will engage a lot of people to to support from civil society, private sector and of course the the public sector. uh, otherwise it will be um you will lose the people uh support the work they work as with the people with passion to rebuild the country and rebuild the sector and linking this to to the other concerns of the people in terms of their citizenship with their solidarity, they're countering the conflict dynamics. I think this is crucial for all of us, so I think before we look for the World Bank views like how to rebuild the schools or how we have a very intense uh um uh rehabilitation for the teachers. I think we need to to see how the governance can be more inclusive. This needs a change between from all the actors in Syria to the authorities because if if we if we don't have this pressure from the communities and from the student and from other stakeholders who are interested in more inclusive education system, I think the authority can continue in in the current way, the current way. Just few comments on on this, like the decision that we will get rid of the excess employees. They did that in three to four weeks with with I mean in education sector we have more than 200,000 employees. So this is a they have a rush to to make it a slim government while we need a huge labor force to rebuild the country. Yeah. uh the the the way the way that they deal with uh the decision of curricula or the way they deal with the employees I think it's not um giving a trust for the people how they deal with that their their experience in Idlib as well, they give a lot of uh space for the civil society and private sector, which I think this will create a lot of inequalities in the future.
Okay, thanks very much, Rabia, for that. Um, can I um pose a question to Rob? And I've got a question from Sarah here. Um, and she's asking about whether um there has been any conversation regarding the potential of uh Jordan hosting um people or those who will potentially be expelled from their homes in Gaza and what would be its impact.
So the answer is no. I mean, Jordan's foreign minister, um, Aean Sephodi, has made Jordan's position very clear, um, that Palestinians cannot be transferred to Egypt, Jordan, or any other Arab state. So um there isn't a discussion on that right now.
Great. That's that's very helpful. Thanks very much. Um, there's also uh another question which Rob you might want to comment on, um, around um so who are the potential donors to restart education in in Syria, do you think? I know that it's not focused on Jordan, but are you able to give any insights in terms of which members of the international community uh chip in to to support the educational rebuilding process in Syria?
Um, probably my colleague would be better positioned to answer that, but I noticed there was another question in the comment about um what will happen to Syrians who remain in Jordan if the funds continue to drop. Um, and this is really interesting. I mean, the funds have been dropping since the Jordan compact was first agreed 10 years ago. Uh, Jordan has not reneged on its pledge to support Syrian refugees in the country, and I can't imagine it would do so. Um, the question becomes how fair is it on Jordan going forwards if it increasingly takes on an increasing burden of that for this. You know, Jordan, as we all know, is is not a a rich country. In fact, it was the only country in the world in 2023 to be downgraded from an upper to a low middle-income country, primarily because of the increased population in the country. So Jordan is under a lot of stress. It has been under a lot of stress for the
Last 10 years and going forwards. Um, it's it would it would there would be big question marks around what burden sharing actually means if if the international community was to continue to drop their support if Syrians are going to stay in Jordan in large numbers.
Great. Yeah. Thanks very much. Um, so I've got a couple of other questions for you. Um, you might want to briefly uh respond to um so uh how Syrian society can respond to cutting of foreign aid. Um, so how is their human capacity can how can the human human capacity be sustained in this situation? Um, would you like to comment on that? I think this this refers to the the aid cuts from the the US administration.
Sure. Sure. Um, just to briefly explain that my understanding that US aid funding in Syria is limited to the northeast. The northwest is not where US aid is directed, and the southern part of the country. So we're talking about maybe 20, 15% of the population, 20%, where the US aid cut will impact. Now, how would um the northeast or the autonomous administration, the Kurdish um authority there, how would they fill this gap? And so, one, we don't know if the aid cut is completed and finalized. And it's now on pause, so we're not sure still how this is going, but let's be pessimistic and say it's happening. That part of the country is right now having negotiations and agreements to become part of the whole of Syria. So we can have a whole of Syria, and then this will become uh like a Syrian kind of wider problem rather than just a northeast problem. But that side I think it can count on one; there it's a it's a rich um uh rich resource um rich part of the country, rich region with um the mineral and the um um petroleum. So it's a rich region, but also I believe for the future of Syria, one of the biggest sources that should step in which is the diaspora, the Syrian diaspora with the expertise, with the human capacity, with the funding; this is what we should be counting on, not international aid. Later on, other governments might stop the international aid. So how can we I believe this is a big question for them, government and in their discourse from the biggest figure to the lowest; they are saying our main um cap uh capital is our human resources. So they are aware of this. The question is of the question is how they can translate this narrative into an action. How they can facilitate bridges between diaspora and locals. How they can facilitate bridges between organizations and diaspora. So this is the big question I think that could fill some of the gaps.
Great. It's wonderful. So thanks very much. Um, so we got about 3 minutes, and I want to give um one minute or even less to the panelists to to respond to my final question, which is about um many of you have been researching into education in your own context relating to um the Syrian uh uh refugee um situation. Um, after the fall of this Assad regime, um how does your uh research get impacted in relation to um the focus of the inquiry as well as the methodological uh approach that you have you have planned? Um, could you reflect on what kind of changes um uh in educational research is needed when when there is a sudden shift of uh uh politics and political situation uh in the context where you are focusing on? I'll open it by asking Kine to reflect maybe.
Sorry to put you on the spot. Thanks. I wasn't prepared for that. But um, and Maria did do did chip in. But I guess uh for um for the work we're doing in Lebanon, obviously what's happening is um changing the the future lens for many of the people we are working with in the Syrian community. You know, I think there's a a different kind of uncertainty, and perhaps there's a different scale to the to the way that people think about futures, the immediate, the medium-term, and long term. And I think this is really impacting education in the way that people think about the investment in their in their children at the moment. So so I think that's extremely important. But on the other hand, I would also say that it really impacts on governance. Uh Lebanon has had a very hostile um environment towards uh Syrian refugees. And I think it becomes even more important to really uh center some of the education experiences in thinking uh about these different types of futures or scenarios for for refugees. So I think that's perhaps I don't know Maria if you want to say something else, but I think for us that is something that we are I think that's that's enough from Lebanon for now. So thanks very much.
Yeah, Rob very briefly, very literally 20 seconds. Um, yeah, and obviously it's a change in the wider context, right? So one of the studies we're looking at this coming year is looking at um different types of social risks that students face, and and so um when it comes to Syrian refugees then then there's a number of different factors which are preventing them from going back home even if they want to, right? So in terms of economic like debt which the families have, in terms of paperwork and all sorts of other things, so there's is that and plus the the funding issue is huge. You know, as as funding starts ramping up for Syria reconstruction, um what impact that might that have on on neighboring countries that are still hosting large numbers of um Syrians?
Yeah, thank you very much. Rabia, literally one sentence, please.
Uh, there is more there is more space uh for for research, and the the dynamic of change of policies create more uh potential influence from research on policy, and there is more uh engagement with the society; I hope this space is will continue with the whole uncertainty that we have, but I think this is two points are me, thank you.
That's very helpful. You um very briefly, my previous research was always about analyzing the past, analyzing how Assad controlled and co-opted and used education and weaponized education, and now but I can dream I can aspire to think of the future because now there is a future, so all my research now is shifted to focus on the future, on recovery, on reform and peace buildingilding and how that could look like in the Syrian context.
That's wonderful. Thank you colleagues for very insightful in um uh presentations and and discussion. Thank you everyone for joining the seminar and sending your questions. I'm afraid I I was not able to take every question that was posed, but uh hopefully we can carry on conversations. Please do email our panelists if you got further questions. Um, and uh we look forward to seeing you in the next seminar. Um, I I would like to thank um and all the colleagues Hib who has helped coordinate this uh seminar, Ariana and Syra and Sarah from IE for supporting this event. Thank you very much and goodbye. Bye everyone.