Meet the Marketing Genius Behind Alex Hormozi’s $106M Book Launch

We sold $106 million in 72 hours. We did not use the word buy one time.

Numbers are down and attendance is down. The webinar attendance is down. The show up rates on calls is down. Right? And so there's people who are winning and then there's people who are complaining.

Whatever you're thinking, just think more. The question that we should all ask ourselves, how much do I need to do to make it unreasonable that I fail?

There's only three things that drive objections, right? Your value prop is not clear enough.

So my most viewed episode this year was with the guy sitting with me right here, Shiron Shervatza, who is the president of acquisition.com, works directly with Alex Sharmozi. We've also became friends over the last couple years and uh we spoke at each other's events and Shiron's just great. If you don't know him, you need to, and so you're going to learn so much on this episode. Thank you so much for being here, bro.

Yeah, man. Super excited to do it again.

Yeah, this was like uh the comments were just so rich. Hundreds of people asking when can you guys have another conversation and I was like bro, it's the Indians, you know what I mean? Even I asked AI right before this, I was like, hey, why was the conversation so good? And they're like, man, it was just so natural and so valuable. So um, I'm just excited to dive into it, dude.

Yeah, let's do it, man.

Yeah, so here, first things first, since a year ago, it was almost exactly a year ago when we last filmed, uh, you've had so much change. Like, you you switched over into your new role with Alex and Leila Horrozi and um, you're a partner of of the firm now and you guys just went through this amazing launch which has broken all records across the world, like literally Guinness Book of World Records, right? And so when you guys started doing this, you you were there for the whole thing, right? Before the promotion of it and everything like that.

And so I think one of the most underrated strategies for anybody who sells anything is to do conversion events and get people into things. And I feel like when they launch things these days, people, whether it's a new channel, a podcast, an event, a webinar, or a book, like in this case, people just underestimate how much attention is required.

And so it just broke my brain on how much attention you guys got for this thing.

Yeah. Uh, the single most important thing that we did on the book launch where we sold uh $106 million in 72 hours and in that entire time we did not use the word buy one time. That's crazy, right? And that was engineered. That was a very specific and deliberate process where we said, "How can we frame this offer as an invitation where we said instead of it being a purchase, can we make it a donation?" And we framed everything associated with that, which meant that everything that was happening associated with that event had to be in the theme of a donation. That is, I got to come from extreme contribution where Alex was giving everything away. And it was to the point where what would you do for a donation? You wouldn't do a three-hour Zoom or a webinar. You would do three full days. So we decided that we would go as long as the cameras would go.

And so our we did three 10-hour live streams, almost 30 hours of just Q&A. It was times where Alex just needed to go pee and Leila and I would just jump in and do Q&A for the rest of the time. So we had people that would stay across all time zones where, you know, Australia would wake up, and then the US would wake up, and then Ireland would wake up, and then India would wake up.

And just going through that continuous frame of keeping that donation theme across the whole thing is really important. So if you're going to sell something, you want to have a single theme because all that they remember is that theme connects with them and they carry that theme across the whole experience. People think that, oh, I'm just going to do the value stack. I'm going to stack a bunch of stuff. Well, the stacking a bunch of stuff, they already know you're going to do that. The stacking a bunch of stuff is the is the traditional funnel-based way of saying, "Hey, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. But wait, there's more. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to They already know that they're coming. They're already clenching their butt cheeks, saying, 'He's going to sell me something.' What you want is something different. And what is that different thing? If you can't find that different thing, it's going to feel like everything else.

Yeah. And today we've seen across all sales online, things numbers are down and attendance is down and people tell me their event attendance is down. The webinar attendance is down. The show up rates on calls is down. Right. And so uh, you can't, by the way, you can't be around people who tell you this stuff because it starts to change your thinking, like maybe the economy is slow. It it's just change. That's all.

Yeah.

Like there's people who are winning and then there's people who are complaining.

Correct.

Right. And so I've seen this in our events too. Someone says it's impossible to fill events and then we'll sell it out, you know, and it's just it just takes a different level of intention, right, to do it these days. And so I just noticed that I thought like, hey, how would you guys even get that many people? Because at some point it's just a numbers game, right? So I think this is the lesson for people is like, um, whatever you're thinking in terms of how many leads you need, how many people you need on your email list, how many pieces of content you need to put out, how many ads you need to run, the number is like a lot higher.

More is that it's more.

Yes.

It's more. Whatever you're thinking, just think more.

Um, the question that we should all ask ourselves is this. How much do I need to do to make it unreasonable that I fail?

Yeah. And if you cannot answer that question, that means you just don't understand the mechanics of all of it. So if you wanted to get a 100 people on your webinar, how many reps do I need to do to get 100 people to come? I need 10,000 leads. Would 10,000 leads make it unreasonable that I get 100 people on the webinar? Great. If that's the answer, now that is the bogey. That's what we should go after. That's what we should get. People just, they they reverse engineer and they say, oh, you know, if I get 40% conversion, I probably only need 400 people, then maybe 200 will come, and then maybe 100 will show and stay at the end. Instead, what if what the question is this again? What would I need to do for me to make it unreasonable for me to fail?

I need 10,000. Do that.

That makes everything significantly easier. So people are just unwilling to just do more.

Yeah. And then what does that take? Well, it takes better creative, more pieces of creative, better value proposition for why they should show up to begin with. And I just, I think most people's offers suck, right? That's the problem. It's not valuable enough. Like I don't even, you could run a bunch of ads to it, but nobody wants to, if it's not converting, they're not signing up, right? So, first step is like, make the thing more valuable.

And I was just thinking about this, um, you know, somebody's like, "Hey, well, what what industries would this work for?" Right? It would work for coaching, consulting, obviously, but also works for anything, honestly. Like even in in our industry in real estate, you know, you're still heavily involved in real estate with Real. Uh, we're actually going to the event tomorrow on a jet, which is going to be cool. But on that event, like at that event, people are like, "Hey, how could I make an offer? How could I do a webinar to get mass attention?" And obviously you could do this B2B to get like recruits, which you've done over the years, but you can do it with consumers, right? And so I noticed like, uh, one of the offers I saw did really well on a small level here in Las Vegas was a real estate guy put together some sort of playbook on how he is acquiring properties under market value and he has a system for this and he names it, which makes it more valuable. All the things you teach, right? And he was able to get people to sign up because it was something different than all the other real estate ads. So like, how do you, can you break this down? Okay. When you want to launch something, uh, what is that first step of like, okay, I need to come up with an offer so that it stands out from my competition. What do you do there?

Yeah. The single most important thing that anyone should do before creating anything is to write a memo.

And and what I mean by that is we start to think and say, I need to go build something. So, you start to watch videos. You start to talk to AI. You start to see everyone else's landing pages. You start to look back at your phone and see how many things you've screenshotted. You say, well, what did Neil sell? What did Alex sell? What did Toron sell? You know, what did Russell Brunson sell? You go to random things like that. Instead, what if you just stopped and said, "Here are my thoughts." And you just wrote a letter. We call it a memo. You just wrote a letter to a business partner, to yourself. And when you put all your thoughts down, you get to organize your thoughts around it. Most people just don't have the ability to organize their thoughts. And then when you step back, you can then look at it and say, "Will someone buy this?" Now, you start to see the holes. Then they can say, "Hey, Neil, I will pay you $10,000 to read my memo." How many times have you gotten on a call where someone says, "I want you to evaluate my offer." And then they spend the first 15 minutes of the call trying to explain what their offer is to you.

Yeah.

Instead, if they sent you a memo, you'd be like, "Wait a minute. I see all the holes in this process." Right? So, just organization of thoughts is the first thing that allows you to get much clearer in your thinking because the person is not coming in with that much context on the call or on the on the webinar. We did just to define the book launch offer. We wrote 16 internal memos.

Like, wow.

It was Alex, Laya, Shiron, and the team wrote 16 internal memos to come up with the final offer that we finally saw. It was not Alex having an idea one day. We changed it until the night before. That many times and that many iterations happened because the clarity of the thinking is extremely important. Most people just don't even write it one time. So when you write it out once, you start to see all the holes. So that that's kind of part number one. The second is um the job of this the job of selling is to make selling easier.

Yeah.

People don't realize that you don't want to come out and be like, I'm a great salesperson. I have great charisma. You don't want any of that. You want to preframe everything. What is the job of marketing? The job of marketing to actually is to make the sale easier.

Yeah.

That is the entire job of marketing. If if the reason why we all make content is what? You make a lot of content, people know everything about you. Then when you run the ad, there's familiarity and endorsement associated with it. Then you can make whatever offer you want. The job of the marketing is to make the selling easier. So number one, write the memo. And we have an internal saying at acquisition.com, which I came up with called WAFM or WFAM, which is write a freaking memo. And regardless of what someone is talking to me on Slack and they'll say, Seir, can you meet? I'll say Waffm. Because it forces them to organize their thoughts. One pager.

Just it can be one or two pages, but just it it allows me to think how you are thinking and then find the holes in it so we can come up with a good rationale around it. The second thing is how can we get the audience preframed to accept the offer? Otherwise, you're literally walking into a on a stage or on a webinar saying, "Hey, awesome. You're here. You want to buy my stuff?"

Yeah.

And and that's there's a big problem with that, right? And so, what are the things that you are going to do to actually get them pre-interested, predisposed, and premotivated to buying your stuff? The question should be, what are the things I can do to get them pre-interested, predisposed, and premotivated to buying my stuff? And that that is the creation of pain. That is the show me proof. That is all of that. So a lot of people think that I want to tell people what it is and then show them all of it. No, you want to do the opposite. You want to put everything beforehand. So the second is the most important part, which is pre-framing the entire process.

The third is how simple can you make the offer? And I always say if you are uh talking to somebody that is two drinks deep in the back of an Uber and they're listening to your offer, do they get it instantly? If they have to think, "Oh my gosh, what what what exactly am I getting?" It's too it's way too complex, right? And the fourth is it's got to have some specific result because people are not buying a drill, they're buying a hole in the wall. So you're giving them that hole. Like, what is that hole? And the way to do that is to somehow name your thing.

Yeah.

And um, it's way easier to say instead of saying, "Hey, did you send out the postcards?" You can say, "Hey, I I have a, you know, my bulletproof postcard system." Right? A lot of times, um, if you're in the real estate business, right, real estate agents will go to clients and say, um, we do these mega open houses. Well, client doesn't know what a mega open house is. They they think, well, are you going to bring me a taco truck? Why does that matter? Are my neighbors coming in just for my food? Do they even care about my house? Instead, you could come up with a name for it. So, I say, "Hey, I've got the 412 open house formula." Well, what is the 412 open house formula? This is what I do four days prior. This is what I do on the day of, and this is what I do two days after.

Yeah.

You do it anyway. Now, show that to them. So, now they say, "Well, at dinner, they're thinking, 'Wait a minute, Chiron has a 412 open house formula, but Jimmy doesn't.'"

Yeah.

Instantly makes the thing more valuable.

Correct. So, when you when you Those are the things, right? So making making sure you have a memo, number one, pre-framing the entire process, number two. Um, then making the s the offer extremely simple that they can get it and then giving it a result that they can sink their teeth into and having a name for it.

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I think this is where So, that's amazing, by the way, because it's simple. Like, people need to understand that first. Then, there's going to be this whole problem of driving traffic to it and all those kinds of things. But one of the things you just brought up which I think is so ignored is when somebody signs up to learn more about your offering and this could be for any industry and maybe they get a lead magnet, maybe they sign up for a webinar, maybe they sign up for a live event, whatever it is, the time in which from when they sign up to when they attend. That's this time period where you could be planting more seeds, framing what you're about to do.

Correct?

Right. So you're hoping that they see your videos on social media. Hopefully they follow you. But if they don't, uh, is that like an email drip? Is that more ads to get them even after they've already opted in?

Right.

What would you suggest there?

The most um, cuz I noticed like when I signed up for Alex's thing,

Yeah.

I got a series of emails after just to basically improve attendance. Like they were he was just telling us how big it's going to be, how much we need to be there. Yeah. How hype, you know, and then it was also like, um, just letting us know the just the mystery of like, dude, there's some crazy that's about to happen, right? Like you can't miss this. So, the single most valuable thing that you can do when someone signs up for anything in your world is right after they sign up on the thank you page is to have a video.

Yeah.

And you call it a VSSL, call it whatever. What you've just done is instead of just saying, "Hey, here are the four things. Follow me on Instagram. Uh, go to my podcast. Do this. Do that. Uh, open your the the worst is you will get an email in two minutes." Like, that's what's on your thank you page. Sure, that makes sense. But in instead of that, they're already in the mindset of they've been pre-framed to something. They bought the thing, maybe bought or registered or whatever. They said yes to something. And you got to [clears throat] give them a payoff. If you do nothing else, I you you want to put a VSL, they call it a video sales letter. We're going to put a video on that page that says, um, thank you so much for doing this. You made a great decision by doing this. Let me tell you why. Blah blah blah. Here are the three things that are going to happen. And when you come on this call, here are the four things you can do. Now, it reaffirms their reason why they did that. Whenever we do funnel audits in our in our consulting practice, one of the things that is missing the most is the thank VSSL on the thank you page.

If by any chance you're getting somebody to book a call with you, your call booking, your call show up rate will go through the roof if you just put a VSSL right after. Just that just that one thing. And but the most important part is when they do show up on the call, the first question you ask them is, "Hey, did you get a chance to watch the video?" And you're either going to get a yes, a no, or a maybe. You treat the yes as a yes, and you treat the no and the maybe the same. Because a lot of people will say may for a no. You can say, "Awesome. Let me actually recap it for you." Pull up the page and just read the notes because that was the original preframe in this entire process. Now, I'll give you an even better way of doing that. Today's Zoom links in the waiting rooms come with a pre-built-in video that you can have.

Yeah.

So, just assume that they have not watched the video. What would be the testimonial reel or uh a quick a quick kind of pre-framing video that you can put in? What do you want them to know before they get on the call? Put that in the waiting room video so that.

Best clients testimonials.

That's it. So that now they log in, they wait in the waiting room, they get a reaffirmation of why they booked the call. It pre-frames them and then when they get on the call, they won't even tell you that they saw all of that.

Dude, it's crazy. And so ignored, right? Like you said, it's most overlooked, right?

Correct.

Even I'm not doing that. Like I would have a really dialed in thank you page, telling us set the calendar reminder, um, telling them why it's going to be important, but it'd be so easy just to put a short video there.

Yeah. And then also it train the salespeople and anybody who's going to be on the call if it is booking calls one-on-one with you know what how important this is going to be, how valuable it's going to be for them.

Yeah. The you can also um one of the things that that people are uh afraid to do is to overcommunicate. They're like, man, I don't want to send seven emails. I don't want to send three text messages. If you don't want to do that, just assume permission or get the permission. So you can say in the on the thank you page, I know you're busy, so I number one, add this.

Yeah.

Uh, number two, I will also send you reminders. So on the reminders, you can say, hey, as promised, and then give them the reminder. I will tell you what is worth the price of admission for this podcast right now, which is the last minute. The last minute, a lot of people don't show up. And you can say, you can actually send out a message that says, um, if you're a last minute person like me, I wanted to send you this. And then you can hit hit them at the end with the last minute as well. We got tens of thousands of people onto the onto the book launch final live by saying, if you're a last minute person like me, click here to jump on. Alex and Toronto and Leila are going to talk about blank.

And that way you it gets pre-built in permission that you can do this. Otherwise, you're like, "Hey, we're going live one more time." That is a completely different frame than saying, "If you're a last minute person like me."

Yeah. And it's also like you're doing them a favor.

Of course.

Yeah. And it's also I think people think, well, um, these people may unsubscribe. They may, but like you you're letting them know upfront, I'm going to be sending you a lot of reminders, right? I'm doing this for you. It's not like we're not trying to spam you.

Um, the as soon as you there there is a framework for how you write these emails. And I I think everyone should know that it's called the reason relevance invitation framework. The reason is, hey, you state the reason upfront. Uh, you are getting this because you subscribe to attend the most amazing launch by Neil Dingra. Haha. Just joking, but not really. Reason.

Yeah.

Relevance. This is important to your business because the world is changing really fast and you need these three tools to win in this business. And then the third part is invitation. You don't have to do anything. This is 100% free and the reason I'm doing this is because I learned this and my clients have done well with this and I'm actually practicing this for a new pitch that I'm doing and I want to give it to you for free. Right? Anything that you can take, you can just take the reason relevance invitation framework and you can put that into AI and you can just talk to AI and say, put this in this framework and it'll reddraft it for you in that framework. Because when someone opens their email, they're asking, why am I getting this? They're irritated. No one's happy opening an email. They just, they just like, what is this? So when they know the reason right away, they're like, "Okay, I understand the reason." Wait, what? Why do I care? Then you give them the relevance and then you give them the invitation.

So I just try to go always whenever I write with reason, relevance, invitation.

Dude, I love that. And then I noticed this, you you gave this tip a while back on a different show, but you said on the thank you page, if there is something to sell, um, and maybe there's a book in this case, like in Alex's case, you could pre-order the book right now. You don't have to wait for the book launch to buy the book. He sold, I think the stat was, he sold more books before the launch than in the pre that it exceeded the old previous launch total. Yeah.

Which is crazy. So on the thank you page, you could just simply buy, which gave you some sort of additional access.

Uh, if you have anything to sell, you are crazy to not put that offer on the thank you page. It is that the thank you page offer is one of the best offers ever. And.

Would that go in place of VSSL or below it? So, um, if you are doing a invitation to a a webinar, an event, etc., I would use the VSSL because that is pre-framing them to show up for something. If this is just a lead magnet where someone's signing up for your email list or someone signing up for your community, then on the thank you page, you can offer them to buy something.

Okay. Yeah, that makes sense because I noticed a lot of people are um getting someone to opt in for the webinar where they're going to pitch the community, but you could also just put the link there. Somebody might join without even coming to the thing. The one of the best offers that you can put on a thank you page is a free trial.

Yeah.

So if if you have a school community or some kind of community and they have a 7-day free trial on the thank you page, they they um, they opted into your newsletter. Then on the thank you page and say, I use the framing, if you like this, you will like that. Hey, if you liked this, then you will love my community. By the way, only for people that have subscribed to my network, I'm giving this completely free for 7 days. Click here, no questions asked, and then you will get so many more free trials because you've already generated all the pain of getting them to subscribe. Now you get a bunch of free trials based on it.

Yeah, it's huge, man. So, here's the thing that I think people struggle with the most is driving traffic to their thing. So, you've gone through the work, you got the VSSL, you got the sales page, you got the thing named right, the process, uh, it's something unique. They call this like a unique mechanism. And I think that's uh, where people go wrong first and foremost because they'll tell me, "Hey, I'm not getting enough opt-ins. I'm not people aren't interested." Well, go back to what we just talked about first. Make the thing more valuable, right?

Because like you said, if you wouldn't even want to attend it yourself, like just show it to one of your buddies and be like, "Dude, I don't need any fake advice here. Just be honest, right? Is this enticing enough or would you sign up for this?" And they'll be like, "No, [clears throat] you know, or like, you know, this needs to be something more unique." I think one thing I I don't know if you can speak to this or not, but I noticed I was struggling with this for a while and uh, a lot of people I consult are as well. They're afraid to like overpromise. So like they know the thing's valuable. They know their service is valuable. They know the processes, but they're afraid to like really really promote it with all out. And I remember just kind of holding back for a while.

And then when I finally was like, dude, I'm going to give this the value it deserves. I'm going to go all in. That's when I saw the results. But prior to that, you got like one toe in, you know, one leg out, and uh, it doesn't work, right?

So, the way to get over the hump of being unsure of how to push your promo hard,

Yeah.

is just leading with proof.

Yeah.

When you lead with proof, you're talking about the thing as opposed to talking about you. And I always think about proof in three ways. Show, flow, demo. Show is you actually have to show them something. Hey, look at what happened. Look at what this person did. Look at this. The more you can show them, the better. So, you're showing people around your internal school community. You're showing people at your event. You're showing people. You're showing the actual workbook. You're showing the actual frameworks. You're showing stuff, right? The second is flow. You're saying, "Hey, here's a flowchart of the things that you're going to get. You're going to get this and then you're going to get this and then you're going to get this and you're going to come to an event. You're going to get this. Or you're going to get this on week one, this on week two, this on week three, this on week four. Or when I work with you, you're going to I'm going to get you a home. Then I'm going to invest in property. Then I'm going to use Airbnb. I'm going to save you $100,000." You show the flow of things. Or the last part is a demo. You're like, "Hey, I'm selling this piece of software or I have this piece of software. Let me show you my calculator." You go in the way you do it. You go in, you punch in a number, you punch in a zip code, you hit enter, it shows you a map. And then you're like, "Hey, if you want this just for your neighborhood, comment the word home below and I'll send it to you." So that way you're not focused on you. You're only focused on what the thing can do because they just want the thing.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, anytime I see someone that is afraid of promoting what they have, I just say, "Hey, just lead with proof and just think show flow or demo."

Dude, love that because it's also they would they actually want it.

Of course.

Yes. You've made the thing that they want. It's going to help people. So, that's the starting point like we talked about before, but now unless you give it the I think people just are in the um in this mindset of like not valuing things enough because maybe they take it for granted. We do so many transactions or we've helped so many people that you don't realize what it's like for someone to be in that position. Similar to like when you give a piece of advice and they're like, "Dude, when you said that, everything changed." You're like, "Wait, that's just something I say every day."

Yeah.

You You just kind of lose touch of like, "Oh, this could really help somebody." Uh, somebody told me this a long time ago and I never forgot. He's like, "Hey, if you truly help people and your service is getting results, like you have the proof, like you said, it would be selfish of you not to promote it."

Mhm.

You're the one being selfish by not promoting it. There's people are going to get misled. They're not going to get the solution they need. They're not they're not going to get the help.

Yeah. The um the easiest way for people to get over that is the two things. Number one is to the proof. But the more important thing is what I call the dog whistle. Then we talked about this before is if you're unsure of going hard and sharing your thing, it's because you feel like you're talking to the world. Just talk to the perfect avatar. So, you made a video recently that says, "Hey, if you're if you want to buy a home and you are crazy, you're are unsure about your monthly payments, then this video is for you."

You're just saying, "Hey, I'm talking to the person that wants to buy a home and is and is unsure about their monthly payments." That way, you instantly are talking to one group of people. You're that your dog whistling those people. Then, you can show them the the show flow, the proof around it. They I if anyone has seen your videos that is a very common theme that either you do intentionally or unintentionally, but is you call the avatar out with the with the dog whistle and then you show them the proof on your on your vibe board, right? That's the easiest formula to follow because now it's not about you. Now it's not like, look at me, I'm amazing. Look at me, I've done this. Look at my credentials. Look at my origin story. Like no one cares about your origin story at that point in time. They have 30 seconds to a minute on a video. They want to know whether this is for them and what they're going to get. And so if If you ever are struggling with this, you should just say, "Hey, if you want to buy a home and you're you're curious about your monthly payment, then this video is for you. Let me show you." And then you give them the showflow demo around it.

Yeah. I think um and this would be the thing you do a little research beforehand. And so the reason I would say you're worried about your payment, you're worried about the numbers is because I know the number one concern of buyers today, right? So what is your avatar and what is their what are their biggest concerns? Do a little bit of research. Ask around. Ask GPT. You can find this very easily. And then if you're you're addressing that in the very beginning. So it's just meeting people where they're at instead of lecturing them.

Yeah.

Like saying, I've got the thing for you.

Yeah.

No, if you're this person, I might have something for you. You may want to stick around and see this.

Yeah.

Like it's more of like a come with me instead of look at me.

Of course. And the interesting part about the dog whistle is you can use it in every medium.

Yeah.

So on email, you can say, "Hey, if you're a real estate agent in North America, then then read below." The greatest part about that is the brain goes to, wait, this is my heatseeker missile. He's talking directly to me. And the if for some reason they are not a real estate agent in North America, they're like, "Oh, thank you so much for telling me. I can hit delete right now." And the person that hit delete loves you. The person that does not hit delete loves you, too. So, you can do that. It works really well on general social media, especially on stories.

You can say, "Hey, um, if you live in Las Vegas, then this video is for you." Then you can be like, "Hey, I'm doing an event, blah, blah, blah." So, it's super easy to be able to do that. So, um, whenever I'm in doubt and I don't know how have a good opening, I always try to use the dog whistle up front.

Yeah, it's perfect. Um, and then I think about this a lot in terms of framing. We had a whole conversation on this last episode. Like, it's so important to do what we're talking about in terms of getting them to see what's going what they're about to get into and calling out the right person, making sure they're seeing the content that they know it's valuable. I was just telling you about I had a a conversation or a presentation where I think it was about 45 minutes and we did $180,000 in sales at the end. Same product a few days later, we did $12,000. And what would be the difference? Like all the only thing that was different was the amount of time. That was it.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so like I'm trying to figure out what were what was missing from the second time. Well, um, if someone wants a a way to package and frame something, well, there's a there's a simple framework for that, too.

Yeah.

And when you follow that formula, it allows you to deliver better. And it is the why, what, how, now.

Okay.

Right. Why is why is this important? Why is this important right now? What what is the 30,000 foot level of what this is? How was how are you going to actually do it? And now is what what are you going to do next? So for example, um, why so let's say I was selling an email course.

I would say, um, the the everyone is doom scrolling right now and uh, everyone's on DMs, everyone has Instagram, but the only place you get serious people is in email. In email, why? Because you get important correspondence on email. Your CPA uses email. Your attorney uses email. And you get DocuSign on email, which means that email is important right now because you even need an email address to get a social media account.

Yeah.

What am I going to talk about? I'm going to talk about that. There's a why. The what. The what is I built this strategy that is based on Crumble Cookies. The company that built a billion-dollar cookie company. I took that strategy and created an email campaign out of it. And I've taught a thousand agents how to use it. And based on this one thing, this is the only email that you need to send to completely transform your business. And it's free. That's the what. And I've named it right. That's the how. This is the deal of the week. This is one email, a text-based email that you can send every single week that has these things. You start with the opening line. You'd have these five bullet points and then you finish off this way. By the way, these are the three things you don't include in it. You don't include a price. You don't include an address and you don't include a uh a link because when you don't include a price or an address or a link, what happens is that they are forced to reply. And when they reply, it starts a conversation because all conversion happens in conversation. So, what do you do next? Hey, I have 30 of the best deal of the weeks that from around the country and across price points actually set up. It's 100% free. You can model this and upload it to AI and do this. Just click the button below and I'll give you all of it. What people don't realize is I framed the whole thing starting off with the wireframe. The wireframe was actually to get you in saying, "Hey, there's too many things going on right now. Social media is not, you know, has got has got uh this is a potential deficit. The problem it Yeah. So, I I frame it that way. So now they're not thinking about, oh, I don't have any deals. They're not thinking about he's going to give me more money. No, they're just saying they're staying with me on this this full framing.

Yeah.

So when you frame it, it it's yes, you need more time, but now if you have less time, you're like, man, how do I do my why, what, how on frames tighter and faster.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah. Because I think like if you don't have and this just made me realize when I was telling you this before, like if you don't have adequate time to do this or you miss one of the pieces,

Correct.

it just changes the result dramatically. And so it just made me realize that, you know, framing is probably the most important thing for everybody watching, listening to do.

Yeah.

Like when you become an expert at this, it makes everything you do so much easier.

Yeah.

Even like we talk a lot about margins, like you'll sell at a higher uh commission rate, like you'll protect your your income, you'll make more money, people will want to work with you versus the other people. It makes just it makes life easier, it makes recruiting easier, it makes everything easier. So, I just think people could step back and be like, "Okay, before I make an offer to do anything with me, have I framed this properly?"

Yeah.

If not, this is why you're struggling.

Yeah. I will give you um if anyone is a speaker,

Yes.

this is a dog whistle. So, if you're a speaker and you want to know how I've had a chance to do what 500 keynotes in the last two years and get decent participation and engagement in all of it, it is the frame of the keynote. If you see me anywhere, especially at Forward, within my first three slides, I will have media. So, a lot of people will come in and say, "How many of you like this? Can I ask a question?" They'll ask an open-ended question. All of that. It is very old school version of trying to get the audience to interact. In the modern day world, especially if you're not well known, you're walking in and no one knows you, so they don't know how to give you the framing and the context. So, you should walk in and essentially say, um, I'm super excited to be here and Neil invited me, but I want to show you this video. And just click play. That is your framing video for your entire talk.

Wow. So when you walk in, the easiest way to frame a crowd is to frame your first slide with a short short video. It can be funny. It can be whatever. It can be something that is inspirational. But 99% of presentations that I make today start with a video. I will tell you what's even better is don't let anybody introduce you. Really, don't let anybody introduce you. No, I can introduce you. I can do an insane job of introducing you, but what I would prefer to have happen is somebody introduce me and then say, "Hey, here's Shiron. He's done X. He's done Y. Let me tell you a private personal story about him. He changed my life by doing this. He's also funny by doing this. He wants to buy the Anaheim Ducks. But saying that, let's roll the video." You want your framing to have like you want to walk in and you want a pre-framed intro video that sets up the authority so that when you walk on stage that you set the tone for everything. You will never see a Tony Robbins walk on stage without his intro video playing first. You will never see, you know, Brennan Bashard walk on stage with the energy in the room up first. So, how you frame and warm up the room before you walk in is insanely important.

How would you do this on Zoom?

Oh, super. Like on on Zoom, I would do the same exact thing. I would I would um if you and I were doing a a Zoom webinar together, I I would say, "Hey, Neil, do you want to kick it off to me?" You can say, "Hey, we're going to kick off this webinar with Chiron. He's going to tell you about why uh how you can make $100,000 in the next 20 minutes." And then I'll get around and be like, "Neil, I appreciate that, but this video will show you everything." And I hit play on a video and I'll use the video to frame everything. Or maybe there's a Alex Forzi quote that says, you know, um the way to make the way to go from, you know, X to Y is doing doing something else. And I say, "Did you see that video? This is what Alex did. We did made $16 a million dollars in 72 hours. I'm going to show you the playbook on how you can do the same." So, I use that to frame everything else.

Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, because this is the reason to pay attention. It's the reason to stick around. And if people are leaving, it's because they weren't framed. They're not buying, it's because they weren't framed. All of this leads to how you started off.

And a lot of people just start the two mistakes that people do is they.

will start, and they'll give their origin stories up front. Or they'll, they'll be the big screen spotlighted, and people are like, "I'm watching a big screen." They instantly pull out their phones, or they start to do a slideshare right away. And as soon as they do the slideshare, it's a static slide, and your video becomes this little tiny screen on the bottom as your face, and this big screen up in the middle. And then you go through four slides, and then you've lost them.

Yeah. But if my first slide is something media, or it can be an infographic, it's something moving there. Now it focuses them on that thing. Then I can use that to dial the rest of my...

Yeah. I noticed on whenever we've had you on a Zoom, you just dive right in. Like you're not wasting any time.

No. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's almost like, I think you're like, it feels like you're in a rush to, but I know now, now I know why.

Yeah.

Because you don't want to lose the people.

Correct.

Because if you started off like, you know, like we have all the time in the world, people just literally tuning you out.

Right. And you also have to shock the system.

Yeah.

Cuz...

No, you come in like a freaking tornado sometimes, bro. Like you're like, "Dude, I'm ready. I'm going. We're going to go straight into this, guys." And then you jump. You ask a question, like, or there's a thing on this. There's a video. Let me, I'm going to play this video for you guys.

That's it. Yeah. And people don't even know what the video is.

They have no idea.

But you just start with that.

Yeah. Because as soon as you put in media, it refocuses them and they start. Cuz if you play something on the screen, or you show an infographic on the screen, or you show something on the screen that is not a static slide, they instantly are not listening. They're like, "I have to pay attention," and then they tune out everything else and they're focused.

Yeah. So now that I think about it, uh, when I was talking to you about these two events, the second event didn't use our intro video.

Of course. So that's another, you know, six-figure mistake. You know, these are all the types of things, right?

The greatest, the easiest thing to do is to get somebody to use it. You build, you build one intro video, you can use it all year. Make sure it's a banger. And then every time you come on stage, they should play your intro video.

Yeah. And then you can apply it for the room. You could have a version for this audience. Yeah. This industry. This type of room. Um, so I will tell you this, small edits that you could make. Well, even crazier. For the first six, seven years, six, seven. For the first six, seven years, I had one intro video. I played the same intro video at both of the forwards.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, a lot of people think, man, you can go and pay a lot of money to buy an create an intro video. I created an intro video, and I've run the same video for seven years. I ran the same video at your event two times with the same video.

But the video frames it well. So, if you're if you're thinking that, hey, I need to go switch my video up for every event, you don't have to do that. You just need one really good one that pre-frames the audience.

And then you could update the footage in it. So, I'll give you an example. We made a video, uh, to frame my talk, and this is for audiences that wouldn't know me. It works really well. But then as I started speaking on bigger venues and bigger stages, the B-roll or the footage of where I'm speaking changed. So, it went from like classrooms to like small rooms to then big auditoriums and big arenas, like big venues. Yeah. And then you just change out the footage, but it's the same voiceover. It's the same video, same edit. Uh, really simple, you can keep it.

Yeah.

Um...

The other easiest way of opening up a presentation if you don't have video or you don't have media to play is if you're traveling to a location. I would take pictures of yourself in that location. "Hey, I'm here in Nashville. I'm behind the Nashville sign, behind the Nashville airport. Hey, they have the honky tonk here. Um, I'm at the registration booth." So, literally, you're like, "Hey, I got in last night. I was really tired. I know I didn't shave today." And you play, you just show those six photos. They then see themselves in your shoes, and now you have rapport. So, if you can't play any media, show them raw UGC, like straight user-generated content of something that was taken in the last like 24 hours. They're like, "Man, now they feel like you made the presentation just for them." Super custom.

Yeah. And you don't have to change anything else in your last hundred slides. Just the first four. You put in something about that setting, that building, that hotel, that restaurant menu, and they're like, "Man, he actually did this for me."

Yeah. And it just makes it less, uh, cookie-cutter, like no template. It's like, "Oh, this is a custom talk for us."

Paying attention now. Correct.

Which is awesome. So, okay, going back to like, we've got our offer. If we if we're doing a presentation, we're gonna make a better presentation now, but getting traffic. Okay, this is the big concern I think for people. They don't have enough traffic. Like you just said, hey, if you're trying to get this many people, you need 10 times that many people to opt-in. You need 10 times that many people in your in your database. And so, if you're marketing to people, uh, one of the things I teach a lot of people, and you, you've been doing a lot of this too over the years, is content, right? And then we can get into paid ads. So, those are the two things.

And obviously email is included in this as well. So, for content right now, I've noticed on your page that you just hit like another level. Obviously, you got more people on the team now. But it just started taking off. And so, first things first, I just saw the volume of created, just the volume of posts went up.

But then I saw something interesting. I love your take on this. Um, you said that you did this intentionally. Uh, but maybe you can clarify this. Most of the content that's driving the most follower growth for you and the most views and the most impressions is written content,

not video content.

Correct.

Uh, I've noticed something similar that the carousel posts on my page that have done well are driving more growth than my videos. Now, doesn't mean I'm not going to do videos anymore. And I even told you like, hey, don't stop doing the videos, bro. But it's kind of like drugs, a little bit, because you're like, man, if I can get all this with just writing, why do I even need to get into the studio?

Correct.

Um, so, what do you guys see in there and what do you, what's the tweak you make? So, um, if you want to go viral, there's two things you should think about. Number one, packaging, and number two, validation. So, let's talk about packaging. The thing that we're seeing is what is something that is already performing well? Hook type of content, format, structure, etc. So, the team and I are constantly looking at, regardless of the niche, regardless of the topic, what type of packaging is performing well? There's something about packaging that makes consumption of content easier and more enjoyable. So, our job is to hook into that packaging in some way. So, when I see a carousel doing well and it's in the biotech niche, I'm like, well, what happened there? I like the first slide. It had this. Let me deconstruct that. How many carousels did it have? Let me deconstruct that. Because if something went viral, it went significantly beyond their follower size. So, the average person was not involved. It went to a general population. So, we are actively hacking packaging. We're taking something that is good and figuring out how to reintroduce things. So, for example, we see a great video that Neil did. It got a million views. We deconstruct that video and say, "This is what the hook was. This is how he did the format where he went to the board and started drawing, and then he did a call to action with the ManyChat thing at the bottom." Awesome. Let's take the same packaging and now put our content inside of that packaging. But we don't change the packaging in any way. Most people fear doing that. And that is the easiest way because you're essentially telling people, "Hey, the way to give a garlic to a puppy is to wrap it in some bacon. I just want the bacon, and I'll put my garlic in it and give it to the puppy." Right? And so...

The number one thing that we're doing right now is figuring out that packaging is working better. And then as the team starts to see the packaging work well, they're doing more of that packaging. So that's like our growth in the last 6 months is probably 7 to 8x from a growth and impressions perspective.

Because, uh, you're running plays that work.

That's exactly right. Yeah.

Yeah. Now, the second thing is validation. This is the hardest part that a lot of people don't do. And I learned this from Alex and Ila. The amount of stuff that they put out is not to just put out more content. It's for straight validation. So, we're using, um, all the platforms to just validate trial reels, tweets, etc., to say, "I'm going to put 30 tweets out, and out of these 30, three are going to perform." Those three are now validated. Now, from those, I can create code cards. From the code cards, if they work, I can create carousels. If the carousels work, I can create LinkedIn posts. If the LinkedIn posts work, I'll create a short. If the short works, I'll create a long form. So, now we're just hammering Twitter. And if our, if our tweets slow down, then we don't have anything anything that's validated. And then we can make carousels, and they don't perform either because none of them were validated in any way. But the hack to validation is, it doesn't always have to be your stuff. I can put out 200 tweets and take something that's validated. Or I can see what you did, or what Alex did, or what someone else did, and say, "Wait, that concept on working hard and being kind is doing really well. I've seen that happen 16 times. I'm going to take that and I'm going to do a version of that."

Yeah.

Creativity is one thing. You're not Steven Spielberg. Our job is to put stuff out there that gets a lot of traction so that the next piece of stuff we can put out there can get more traction. So, you want to do more validated content, and then the rest of your content should be testing. So, the team right now works on just two principles. We're either going to put out completely tested and validated content, or we're going to put out test content. Those are the only two things we're doing. So, when you see a lot of content, you're seeing a lot of test content, and then whatever works, we're doubling down on the validation of that.

Yeah. And I noticed anybody who has a large audience, followers, they've blown up. They found a format that works, and then they just ran with it.

Yeah.

Remember the dude who like dumped his face in the ice?

Oh, yeah.

And did he found a format?

Right.

And then it went viral. He made 40 more videos like that. Literally 50, maybe more. I don't know. Until it didn't work anymore.

But from there, he gained millions and millions of followers, impressions, and dollars, right? And so, um, I think people see a hit in their portfolio of content, they're like, "Oh, I did that one. On to the next." No, no, no. Make 12 more, please, right now. Of that. And I do, I make this mistake all the time.

It literally tells you in Instagram and says, "Hey, uh..."

Make more content like this, please.

This hook did well. Start your videos like this next time. And then what do we do? We make a totally different piece of content because you're like, "Oh, I already ran that."

Because I think people don't understand. And you just, people need to be reminded this. Whenever a video has outsized reach, it's all new people seeing you for the very first time.

Correct.

They haven't seen that you did it last week.

Yeah.

You're just getting more people into your tent and just attracting more people.

Not only that, on average, only 2 to 3% of your followers see your posts.

Yeah.

So, you could repost that same piece of winning content every 3 weeks, and there's a good chance that one of two things happen. One, the person that already saw it before likes it again. And number two, a whole different group of two to 3% sees your stuff. I'll, I'll give you a crazy thing. We talked about this offline. Um, the number one way to get featured in traditional media is to actually go viral on social media.

Yeah.

Right. So, I wrote a LinkedIn post on how it took me 39 one-on-one interviews to get a job at Goldman Sachs. That LinkedIn post went nuts. So, we took the same thing and we made...

By accident. By accident.

Validation.

Right. We took the same thing and made a Twitter thread out of it. It went nuts. I recorded that as a, uh, as a part of an interview like this, and the team cut that video, and that got millions of views that you and I were looking at. When I say that traditional media wants, uh, likes the stuff that went viral on social, what, what do they want? Well, they want stuff that's already performing that people already like. Well, the number one Indian publication took that piece of content and wrote an article saying, you know, "Entrepreneur of Indian origin got 39 interviews at Goldman Sachs and won blah blah blah." Well, multiple publications did that. The number one Instagram Wall Street account made a post about me about that article, and then Fortune magazine wrote an entire article on that post that went viral. So, now you have a traditional media that actually realized that the way they can get more views on their stuff is to get a validated piece of content that already went viral on social.

And you can't buy that attention.

My, my PR team could not have gotten me on Fortune.

Yeah.

Like that. And because of that, now I think there's, my team counted, there were like 70 or 80 publications that had had Daisy chained and gotten that multiple, uh, Instagram accounts that had promoted that, all because we validated a couple of pieces of content and then cut one 60-second short that got us...

Yeah. It's like, um, the, you can do this in reverse too, right? So, you're talking about, by the way, guys, this is like when we say you're one piece of content away, you truly are. Like, you didn't plan on that LinkedIn post going viral.

No.

It was just one of your stories. I got a document, uh, in my notes that says "Stories to Tell."

Yeah.

And I like, sometimes my strategy is just do things so I have more stories to tell. Yeah. I do this all the time.

Oh, I know.

Yeah. You're part of the... Yeah. So, like, I just want more stories to tell. But any one of these stories can be viral. You know, you just, it needs to be packaged in the right way. So, it also made me realize, um, you know, it's not necessarily the best stories, the best, uh, uh, information, the best content that wins. It's the best packaged information, right? Like, there's a lot of thought that goes into this packaging and how you write it and how you hook people and all that kind of stuff. But it starts with just testing more and just seeing what works and then running the plays that work. I'll tell you, just one quick thing on your content. And the reason why we're going so deep on this is because, um, when I talked to Cody Sanchez at Forward,

she told me that this large percentage of all VC dollars are going that comes into the market goes directly into paid media.

On all the big platforms.

Right?

This is driving up the cost of ads.

Correct?

The only way that you can beat this and win is with brand.

Correct. If you have personal brand and you have all these impressions that you generate organically, you can remarket to these people. So, you mentioned this earlier, when you're promoting your thing, you could be marketing to people who have already seen your content. There was a, uh, media buyer here that said, "Hey, I was promoting, uh, Forward event launch webinar." And he's like, "Hey, um, you know, for this type of thing, we're seeing in the space about $10 to $12 a lead." And I was like, "$12 for a webinar registrant? They may not even show up, bro.

That seems expensive to me." And he's like, "G, I mean, I'm sure you can figure out how to make that work, but that's what people are paying." And we're like, "Okay, cool. Well, let's just run it to people who have seen my content."

We paid $2.60.

That's insane.

So, it just shows you, it doesn't just come down a little bit. Like, it drops. Yeah.

And that is literally like the kryptonite. So, it's like David versus Goliath. You can win if you do this correctly. Which is why we, instead of paying for paid media, we take all the paid media resources and pay to build organic.

Yes.

Because the more organic media portfolio you can build, and they have seen you, you don't have to reintroduce yourself on the paid media side. So, you just, if, if Oprah ran an ad tomorrow, you would think it's Oprah's content, but you also just know Oprah. So, it's way easier because of that. And so, uh, the, the, the whole jab, jab, jab, right hook is good. The right hook is the ad.

Yeah.

So, all the jabs are just a content. And I, I would offer not to put any call to action in your organic. The hack, though, is if you're making content and one of your pieces of content actually did well, rerun that as the ad and just put the CTA at the end.

Yeah.

Or put a button on it. Right.

Very simple.

And you've, you've already...

It's already been validated. Yeah. It's been validated. It's proven. So, I was looking at your content and I'm doing the exact same thing that you just said. Okay? You said, "Hey, look at what worked. See if you can make your version of it." Right?

So, that's the simple, uh, exercise everybody who's watching, listening can do right now. So, I'm going to do exactly what Sean just said. I just looked at Shiron's most engaged carousel posts. I noticed something, and I would love to hear if you notice this, or maybe you guys figured this out. I noticed when you teach something, it gets a lot of reach, and it could, it could honestly go viral. But the ones that did the most views, the most likes and comments were when you made an observation.

Right?

Yeah.

And so, I just, here's my logic around this is like, somebody sees Shiron's thing pop up, they don't follow you. The platform's showing it to you.

I have to decide, should I listen to Shiron? Who is this guy? Who's this Indian guy?

Mhm.

Yeah, he looks like a nerd. I don't know if I like him. What? So, I'm thinking all these things. If you make an observation, you don't have to think that.

That is correct. So, you said, "I noticed this thing. Here's what happened." And then you insert your expertise behind the observation.

Correct.

So, I'm like, "Bro, I'm getting maybe 20, 30,000 impressions on, uh, my carousels at the time, cuz I'm not really doing that many." So, I go on and I make a new carousel and it says, uh, "A pattern I noticed." Right? Or, uh, I said this, "I can't unsee this. A pattern I can't unsee."

Dude, it did 300,000 impressions. Same lesson, but I just put that as the opening, uh, thing, an observation.

So, the, um...

So, literally 10xed it using this exact framework.

So, there's a framework for that, and it is the authority frame. And the authority frame goes like this: you want to report the truth with proof. Three pieces. You want to report the truth with proof.

Report, um, "I did, you know, I learned this doing a 100 coaching calls."

Report, uh, the truth. "I did a hundred, I did these coaching calls, not anyone else." And proof, "The hundred."

Yeah.

Right. But if you take the opposite, um, "I learned this from a few calls." That's not good. "I learned this thing from when I did a 100 coaching calls, and every single entrepreneur does this."

Report the truth with proof. Anytime you're stuck and you want an authority frame, you do that. I'll give you an example. Um, "Elon Musk told me to drop out of Stanford." That is the truth. But what happened was, um, as you know, as an Indian, your parents want you to go to a very fancy school and get a fancy degree just because you do that thing. And so, I got, after I graduated from college, I got a job at this startup as in, very, very one of the earliest employees. Got to raise money, do all of that. And then my roommate was a, uh, aerospace engineer, and Elon was working on the Mars project. I, I had heard of Elon through the PayPal awards, etc. So, I went to this seminar, and at the seminar, I asked Elon, "Hey, um, I have a question for you. I know you're affiliated with Stanford. Um, I want, I'm doing the Stanford, uh, masters in electrical engineering program and running this building this startup at the same time. It's just too much." And he says, "Stanford will always be there. You should quit and build a startup." That was the, I've had 30 seconds of a conversation with Elon. That's all it was. And then I was thinking about this, and I told this story, and my team was like, "This is an insane story. You just don't have an authority frame." And so, the hook was, "Elon Musk asked me to drop out of Stanford." And so, now that has report on the truth with proof. Elon asked me to drop out of Stanford, and that's the proof. And now that changes everything because it's an observation, and it has some proof around it, and it tells a story. And now you're like, "Wait, what? What is that all about?" So, it frames a really good open loop that you can tell a story, story about.

That's huge. So, you can apply this to existing content that hasn't performed already.

Exactly. You just take, take exactly your content and say, "How would I report the story with proof?"

Wow. Okay. This is huge because I've just found that like, people are asking the question, "Why should I watch? Or why should I listen to this? Why should I read this?"

Yeah.

Even if they're not saying it out loud, they're subconsciously thinking this.

Well, we'll see. "Hey, I have sold 300 homes in Las Vegas, and this is the number one mistake that sellers make." Instead of saying, "This is the number one mistake that sellers make."

Yeah, dude. Such a simple tweak.

Report the truth with proof.

Dude, everyone should be doing this. Why aren't they doing it? You know, is the question. Maybe they don't have the proof.

Well, if, if you don't have the proof, then lean on the proof. So, you can say, um, the, um, uh, Forbes magazine says that that homeowners have a 38% 38 times bigger net worth than renters. Let me show you how.

Yeah.

So, you report the truth.

You use like a, uh, reputable news source, right?

You do this really well. Well, you take the, the reputable news source, you take the screenshot, and you start the first 3 seconds of the screenshot with that. And then you just go into your normal day, right? Explaining that video. Just that alone forces that whatever you're saying to that proof.

Yeah. And even I'll, I'll even have to sometimes clean up the graphic because sometimes it'll say NBC up here, and then it's got the headline here. It's got all, sometimes.

Yeah. Yeah. So, then you screenshot that. You have to go into Canva or into, you could do it in Instagram Stories and clean out all the mess. Make it clean, simple, but you need the, uh, authority on there.

Yeah.

Forbes, NBC, whatever. Uh, and I've seen people do this without that, and it doesn't do as well.

Correct. Because then it's just like, you could have just really, you could have just wrote the on there.

You know, you need the, you need it from the publication, right?

So, I would just say for anybody who's struggling with views, or, um, getting this whole topic out there, to use one of these frames first in the content. You'll get way more people to see the content. And now the next part is, you could retarget all these people with the offer.

Yeah.

With the ad, right? And then your cost of customer acquisition goes way down.

Yeah. And you can also, if you start to tag those publications. So, let's say it was a local publication in your market. You can say, "Hey, it's the Las Vegas Business Journal." If you tag the Las Vegas Business Journal, they will like it. They will share it. They will, they will give you free reach without, and if it was a good article, they'll just give you free reach. So, any local media will be extremely excited if you showcase them. They will give you free reach based on it.

Dude, that's huge. Um, think about this too, when you're thinking about, okay, how could I get more people to see my stuff, like, obviously make better content. We tell people this all the time, and then they struggle with it. And so, uh, when I said this earlier, hey, everyone's telling me their numbers are down across the board, and you can't listen to that. There's a way to do it. You just have to be more intentional. The stuff we just talked about is not that difficult to do, but for some reason, very few people do it. They're not. They're just throwing up a video and they'll tell me their views are down.

Yeah.

It just, it's just not easy anymore.

Correct.

And so, somebody will tell me like, "Hey, Don Neil, um, you know, maybe I'm just not meant to be a content creator. Maybe it's just not meant to be." I'm like, "No, dude. It's not meant to be easy.

It's, it's, it's not a sign because I sucked at all the things, right?

And then you just have to be intentional. And there was a period of time where you could still get traction even if you suck, right? And it kind of trains you to be like, "Oh, dude, maybe I can do this." And I think those days have gone. And so, that's what's changed. It's not like you can't win. It's just, you now you have to do a little bit of work.

You're, you're probably just one tweak away from that video taking off.

Yeah.

And you may just not know what that tweak is.

One line, literally could be the opening line.

And that's why I think we are students of packaging now.

Yeah. Packaging makes content easier to consume, and it also teaches the algorithm who should see that content. So, the more we can package well, we know that, uh, our, our content is probably good. It's just, it's missing the wrapper. It's missing, it's missing being wrapped in bacon. We just need to figure out how to wrap it in bacon. So, anytime if you're, if you have a piece of content that you think is going to go do great, you should ask yourself, "Huh, that didn't hit. Assume my content was good. How do I package this better?" And then you just tell your team, "We're going to come up with three, four different ways to repackage this, and one of them will hit."

Yeah. And if it doesn't go viral, one will do better than the other three.

Correct.

And then you know you're on the right path.

That's exactly right.

So, post 10 pieces of content, there's going to be two or three that do better. You can just continue to go that way.

Exactly right.

And then the proven way right now is just to literally look at social media. So, when, um, I go on to scroll, you know, like, you get doom scrolling, and an hour goes by. Like, I try to avoid that. Now, what I'm doing is just researching.

Yes.

So, when I scroll, like, dude, I'm literally taking notes. This is also why some people use scrolling to decompress at night.

If I do it, it makes my mind go the opposite way. I can't sleep because then I'm making notes to the team. I'm like, "Hey, screenshotting this and doing this."

So, I have to like, not do that right before bed. But,

um, you should be going on social, not to just consume. You should be taking notes. What's working? How could you apply it to your stuff? That's the, that's what everyone needs to be doing right now.

When you, um...

And this will keep you on the, uh, your finger on the pulse too, cuz by the way, this could change in a week.

100%.

And it will change. And the only reason we'll know it is because we're consuming.

So, this was the, um, the biggest hack that I did was this one thing, which is while I'm scrolling, my eyes are only on the bottom right.

Bottom right? What do you mean?

I'm looking at, I'm only looking at the number of shares.

Oh, okay.

So, I'm scrolling. I'm just looking at the, I'm not looking at the video. I'm just looking at the shares. And every time there's more than 3,000 shares, I stop and watch the video. Because you get 3,000 shares, that's over a million. That's over a million in in views on that video. Somebody shared that video 3,000 times. It is foundationally impossible to go viral, meaning to get insane number of views without getting insane number of shares. It is impossible for the average person, right?

So, that means something happened in that video that got the person to want to share the thing. And so, all I do is just, I just keep looking at the bottom right, and I'm just waiting for 3,000. As soon as I see 3,000, I stop and watch the video.

Dang. Then that's research.

That's all it is. And then whenever I'm done, if I go through like 10, 15, I'm not seeing.

And the same on carousels, too, right?

It's the same exact thing. I'd say anywhere from a thousand to 3,000 shares. That's a, that's a lot of shares.

Yeah.

And you know that something worked, and one of two things worked in that video. Either either had really good packaging, or it had really good validation of of the message. You can learn from, you can learn from both. Yeah.

And so, I asked the first question, I'm like, "Was this a packaging that made it go well, or was the validated message go well?" Generally, it's both. But I can say, "What can I steal, borrow, beg from this thing?" Because say, "Ah, I really like this content. I can redo this content in a different way." "Oh, they're talking about, you know, net worth of homeowners versus renters." Well, I like that topic. I know that topic is getting a lot of views. Then I search homeowners versus renters, and I see all these these videos that are getting a lot of shares. Okay, that's a validated topic. Now I want to go write a Substack on it. Now I want to go write a tweet on it. Now I want to go write a LinkedIn post on it. I want to see if I can validate it. If I validate it, then I can make a podcast on it. Then I can make, now I can make a video on it. So...

You want to look for more validated content as a topic alone, and then you can kind of, um, speak your, uh, thoughts into that. The easiest way, though, what I found is folks should just go on YouTube and they should search their niche. So, go with mortgage, right? Um, say something like, um, "mortgage rates," and they see all these videos pop up. You're not looking at the content of the video. You're just looking at the videos, and you're seeing which videos performed, and you're looking at their titles and the thumbnails. They, that content has been validated. You don't even have to watch the video. Don't watch it. Don't look at the comments. Just take that, and now write a tweet about it. Write a post about it. Write a, you know, LinkedIn post about it. They've already given you the validated content. Develop the validated content.

Yeah. And so you don't have to guess.

No, you should not be guessing at all. Like, it, it, it's guessing is extremely expensive.

Yeah. For sure. Especially if you run ads. So, then that's why those people are paying $12 a registrant. It's crazy because they're just pissing in the wind, essentially.

Correct.

So, what you want to do is...

Get more people to see the content. You can make them promo aware, and then now run the ads or run the promo. You could do this organic too. Like, I've seen so many carousels where maybe, let's take your example, the real estate example. They might promote, uh, they might establish a problem in real estate. Like, I just saw somebody do this in Las Vegas. They said, um, "How this firm bought up another, uh, big block of homes, right?" And it's like the narrative is like, "Wall Street's going to take over." Correct. Right. And so, the average homeowner, the average person may not be able to own a home at some point in the future.

And so, you want to learn about this now. Right. And so, it just, maybe someone wasn't even aware of the problem. Now, you've done that through an observation. On the last slide of that carousel, you could say,

"This is what I'm breaking down on Thursday."

Correct.

"In the seven ways to beat Wall Street," or whatever, "seven things you need to know," whatever your title is that you come up with, or your system. And so, now you can promote it, right?

Exactly. Right.

So, what are you thinking about like running these as, um, I guess you want to say, like, would you say that is the ad that you would now promote?

Sure. Of course. If it's validated content, you can promote the ad.

Okay.

Yeah.

That's what you do.

So, for you, wouldn't you wouldn't redo it? You would just take that exact carousel that did well organic and run it as an ad.

Yeah. And you would just change the last slide to whatever the call to action was.

Okay.

Right. So, for example, let's say that you have a real estate agent who has a, um, who has a home with a pool.

Yes.

Instead of you saying, um, "Amazing pool with home with a pool in Las Vegas," your front thing should be, uh, a news article essentially that says, "Do homes with pools get, you know, get fetch a higher price?" Yeah.

Right. And the sec next one is, "There are here are 14 homes with pools that are currently available for sale." Three million, eight million, 12 million, 22 million. Right? And then you can say, "At the last slide, we have, did you know you could get a home with a pool for under a million dollars? Swipe actually have access to one of these. DM me the word pool below, and I'll send you this."

Dang.

Right. So, now you've taken this big opportunity of like, you get everybody that's interested in a pool, and now you promote yourself that you have access to that thing. Instead of saying, "I got a home with a pool," because we've been taught that we have to promote the listing, but you don't promote the listing that way. You promote the concept. The listing is within the concept.

Yeah. Okay. Got it. Okay. So, this is good. So, um, here's the thing that I want to make sure we get to before we wrap. Okay. I got it in the notes because this is something I think that you could hack real-time and, uh, it will be part of history. Okay, bro. This is going to be... [snorts] So, there is a launch coming up for me in March. Okay. And let me just give you the, you have some of the break. You have some of the history on this, but I want to give it to you. Every year when we launch Forward event, um, we do like a webinar, we launch it.

And...

We get like, in the beginning, 20% of the people bought the tickets. And then last year, 30, 40, or the year before was 30, 40%. Last year was like 60% plus were purchased on the launch.

I think there's a possibility this year, uh, if we do this correctly, that the event could be sold out on the launch.

Is that like something, and I got this idea after watching you guys pull off the launch for the book. You could, you could sell the entire event on the launch.

Yeah. And I will tell...

And nobody's done that before in our industry.

And I will tell you why.

Okay.

Because you have already done it in a different way.

The only way to get into your mastermind is if people are at Forward.

The only way they can get in is, you, you completely sell out your mastermind at Forward.

Yeah. So, you're automatically saying that if you get the right people in the room, and it is the right offer for them, that you will sell out the entire event there. So, all we have to do. So, you've already proven this in a more difficult scale.

Yeah.

So, there is almost no reason that you can't sell out the entire event on the launch, on on the webinar. However, I would ask this question, which is, "What would it take to make it unreasonable for me to fail on this?" That may be the pre-framing. That may be the number of people on the webinar. That may be who the guests are there you have. That may be the offer. You're saying, "Hey, it's probably one of those." And you're saying, "How many people do I need to have? I had X last time. I need Y this time. I'm going to do whatever it takes to get that." Great. How do I preframe that? I'm gonna do a a series of 16 days of leading up to that because they're going to know that something epic is coming. Cool. That's the preframe. I'm gonna have three special guests on it, and they're going to drop some insane value that they are never going to have done anywhere else, and they're going to give some of their stuff away for free as a part of this offer. Four, I'm going to tell them that they, if if they can't, if they don't buy it today, it's going to be 20 times the price tomorrow.

Yeah.

I'm like, "You can come to Forward for $20,000, or you can buy today for $1,500. You choose." That's true.

So, it will happen. You just have to say, "What would it take for me to for it to be unreasonable that I fail?" and then just do more.

And there could be surprises on the thing, giveaways, things like this.

Of course. But people forget that the job is to get people on it to sell. So, the, the constraint here is not the surprises on the webinar. The constraint here is getting the right people preframed on the webinar.

And getting enough of them.

Correct.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, like, um, what did we have last year? 5,000, 6,000 opt-in, something like that, and 3,900 showed up or something, and then by the time we get to the launch, there's like around 3,000.

Correct.

And so, I just need double.

Well, um, or more.

So, when you say double, would that make it unreasonable? No. I would go...

So, it have to be triple.

Correct. So, that is the goal, right? It's no different. So, now you're like, "Listen, that resets the minimum standard. I need to get 12,000 opt-ins. So, I need 6,000 people on the webinar to sell a thousand of these." And if I get two or three stragglers, I'm going to send, I'll sell some a bunch of $20,000 tickets.

Yeah, that's crazy. But it can be done.

I, I, I think you're, you're going to will it into existence starting right now.

Yeah, man. So, if you're watching this, uh, you'll have to tune in because we're going to do this in the early part of 2026, bro. Pull it off because I just think like, you know how difficult it is to sell things one to one.

And the skill that changed my whole life is selling things one to many.

Right? And I think it would just unlock so many things for everybody. Like, you need to be seen by more people. We just talked about content. You need more people to be interested in your stuff. We just talked about framing and your offers. And all that. And then you need more people to buy. Well, just having all this attention makes all these things happen, right? And then, yes, I know one to one is still required. We still jump on calls. We still do things. It's never going away. But it's like the last step of this whole process. And it could be, honestly, um, something that you do that's delegated.

At some point. You don't even have to do it anymore. And I think people get burnt out in the industry from just doing things one to one.

The, the interesting part about, nobody wants to get on a one-on-one call.

Yeah.

Because you're selling them work.

Yeah. That's true.

Now, I have to book a call. I have to get on this call, and now I have to revalidate my pain. I have to revalidate my interest, and then I have to buy something. So, you're making me sell, you make me do the work, and pay the money. It's too much. What can make it easier? So, we have to figure out a way to make everything easier. And I will also wager the folks that did not get on the one-on-one call were significantly better prospects.

Really? Or the ones that don't show up?

No, no, no. That bought, bought it on a one dimension.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Cuz they, they saw your offer, they understood it, they bought it. They're, they make, they can make a decision quickly.

Yeah.

And some people need the one-on-one, one-on-one call, but the one-on-one call is is a heavy thing for both parties.

Yeah.

And I don't like heavy things for both parties. It's no fun.

Yeah. So, I, I would love that to wrap this up. Sean, if you could give me your take on this. I saw, you know, this article written, uh, it was about Elon and Tesla and how they were totally ridiculed and mocked for not having dealerships when they rolled out. And I know you're a big Tesla fan and Elon fan, and so you... Well, I shouldn't say you're Elon fans, but you're partially Elon fan, right?

Well, I mean, Elon's a half alien. So...

Yeah, you like half the stuff, the other half, you never know. But you said this, um, like they, they revolutionized the car industry, the way you buy a car. And I don't think anybody would have ever said it would be possible to buy a car off a landing page, but they did it, right? And so, um, it just shows you like all the work they do.

beforehand. And that was all framing, packaging, all the stuff you just talked about, traffic, and you would like people would have said you're crazy if you think someone's going to buy a car off the landing page, but that's how it's done now.

Do you think in the future like more of this higher ticket stuff? Because I think the model has always been, hey, let's get them on calls. Like we just talked about onetoone calls that you can start to sell things at high prices, even at the high prices of homes off of group selling, live selling, off landing pages, things like this. And if that's the case, um, like what should people be doing to prepare for this?

[snorts] The market will always move towards convenience, right? I'll give a very rudimentary example. The most inconvenient thing to do in the real estate transactional world at least is to get things notorized.

>> Yeah.

>> You're like, man, I got to go to a mailboxes, etc., and try to get this notorized. Well, what was the innovation that happened? Innovation, if you can call it, is these mobile notaries. You're like, don't worry, I'll send somebody to your house or your office.

>> And so, that's great. Someone drives 40 minutes to come to your office and then flip through pages and has you sign stuff. Yesterday I bought a house investment property and I clicked accept on the contract and I am not joking. Instantly on my computer the screen turned and a dude showed up on my screen. He's like sir my name is so and so and I am your licensed notary.

>> Yeah I are real

>> real guy and I am your notary. This is proof.com. I am your notary. And I said I've never done this before. He says, "This will take a minute. Um, I see you've already upload uploaded your license." I said, "Yes." I'm going to ask you a few questions. He asked me questions. He There's a document on the screen. It's him, his photo and my photo or video. I go through and he asks me the question just like a notary would. Validates whatever I need to do. Signs it. A fixes his seal on the document. I sign it right in front of him with an electronic signature. He says, "Sir, I'm done. When as soon as you press enter, it'll ask you for a payment page." I press enter. $25. I paid $25 for my notary and my transaction closed.

>> Dang.

>> Everything will move towards convenience. The the aspect just becomes how much of that process was pre-framed overall. I knew exactly what a notary needed to do. In fact, I was so excited that I was going to get this done as opposed to wait till tomorrow to go to a mailbox etc. or have somebody come to my house into my house to sign these documents.

So, yes, I 100% believe that you can sell anything off a landing page. I bought two Teslas of a landing page. I'm I don't think I'm ever going to go to a uh dealership in my life ever again. But people buy crazy things of landing pages all the time. eBay proved that. Amazon proved that. And now Tesla is is proving that.

Um the most important thing there are two important things here. Number one, you have to figure out you have to believe that this is going to happen. And the second is recognizing that what drives objections. There's only three things that drive objections, right? Your value prop is not clear enough. You just don't know what you're selling.

>> Your presentation is not good enough or your brand is not big enough.

>> So if your value prop was not good enough, it doesn't nobody if if if he was selling a Tesla and it drove like a bicycle, no one's going to buy it. If your presentation is not good enough, meaning the flow was not good, if it didn't have the features, the five things that I could choose, I'm not going to buy it. And if the brand was not big enough, if no one had heard of it, why can a Tesla sell it off a landing page, but not Lumen? By the way, I love the Lumen. I trust drove. It's a great car. They're going to have an insane uphill brand that they have to fight. Why did the Karma car not make it? Why did the Fisker not make it and run out of business? They're almost better cars than Tesla. If your value prop is not clear enough, your presentation is not good enough, and your branding is big enough, you will get objections. And if they solve all those three things, you can sell anything off a landing page.

>> That's awesome. So, I'm thinking like the goal for people watching listening is just reduce the number of objections cuz you'll have those three things. That's it.

>> That kills all the resistance, all the friction.

>> So, in the in the book launch, that's all we did, right? We sold $106 million in 72 hours. We wanted a value prop that was extremely clear. That means you need donate these books and you and you help the entrepreneurs in America. Your presentation was not good enough. Alex went through slide by slide explaining every single thing that he was going to teach. If you saw he had a stack of things that he was showing, every single book, every single AI the presentation was going and the brand was just big because of that. It reduced all the objections.

>> I would argue the last one was the biggest one.

>> Of course,

>> because his brand is is is probably the largest brand in entrepreneurship right now,

>> right? You may get a little brand premium to buy stuff, but if your value prop is not clear enough and your presentation is not good enough, you will not buy stuff. I will tell you we have done stuff where that where the pre where the offer bombed. Not not on that day, but we have done stuff where the offer bombed. That's why it took us 16 memos to get to that offer.

>> Wow. Okay. So, even with brand, you could you could mess up the other two. Okay.

>> If people don't understand it, they'll be like, I just don't understand what he's selling.

>> Yeah. So, that's important.

>> Yeah.

>> So, this is the uh I think that's the goal for people is just to get more dialed in with this stuff to make your life, your job easier. doesn't mean that you're going to be cut out of the transaction. It means that you're even more val like you just need to do more work.

>> Correct.

>> And you could do this one to many selling and and be one of this the few people who win while the average people unfortunately kind of continue to just struggle.

If you have it, if your value prop is clear enough, your presentation is good enough and your brand is big enough, you will get invited to more appointments. It's you will be pre-framed more in those appointments. they will be predisposed to doing business with you more often and they want to say yes so they can get this off their plate sooner and people don't want to do a 6090 2hour appointment. They've already predecided who they're going to go with and that's why you're there and so if you are in onetoone selling man everything else is so much more important than the preframe.

>> Yes. So guys, if you have uh questions, anything uh that you think Sean should go into more in depth, let us know in the comments. That's what we did last time. And these are the topics we covered today. Bro, thank you so much for being here. This is awesome. And uh where where should people connect in your world right now?

>> Um the number one place to connect with me is on my Substack. It's my nextbillion.com. I just realized that after building two billion dollar companies that I missed one thing. I missed capturing all my learnings live because I was learning how to do it in the process. And so, uh, this is the process of building the next billion. So, I'm just figuring out how can how can I document it for myself and my family and I want everybody to come along the ride with me. So, it's 100% free. Nothing to sell you. Nextbillion.com.

>> Love that, bro. And we'll put the link in the comments. And uh until then, we'll see you on the next