Transcription
I said, "Wait a minute. How can China be an enemy to Europe? I mean, China is far away. I mean, China an enemy. China is going to send aeroplanes and aircraft carriers and fire missiles at Europe. It's not going to happen. China threatens American dominance. That's for sure. And you cannot base your future on one outcome or the other. The future must be based upon either possibility and therefore a diversification of risk. China is rising for how long will China rise for the next 20 years? Yes. Beyond that, who knows? So again, anticipate different possibilities and place your bets accordingly. Never pile all your chips on one number. Try not to be in a room alone with somebody who's much bigger than you. That's a bit dangerous. So always go to an open space where there are big guys all around. Then it's okay. You can be yourself. So our international diplomacy is based upon inclusiveness and friendship with all the major powers. The problem with governance to reduce it to a struggle between autocracy and democracy to me is childish because democracies can be captured by vested interests, the voting system manipulated and the income inequality getting worse. And this is a poker game because the Chinese know they're getting stronger. So they don't want the US to miscalculate. So in a poker game, you show some cards. Of course, the stronger cards are hidden. I don't think the Chinese are bluffing. So I think the stronger cars are hidden in the Pentagon. You must have read the pizza sales went up four four-fold. Papa Joe and Dominic because all those in the working at the Pentagon were busily watching, counting weapons, looking at who's who and what's what. because China was sending a signal.
What you just heard was a clip from a talk given by George Yo, former minister for foreign affairs of Singapore at the Zagreb School of Economics and Management, a top business school in Croatia in September of 2025. In a world of growing geopolitical complexity, we often crave simple answers. But to truly understand our era, perhaps what we need is a voice that transcends simple binaries and embraces complexity. In the content that follows, you will hear this season strategist with decades of experience in politics, diplomacy, and international business interpret the most talked about issues of our time from a unique global hub perspective. He will explore whether Europe's complex emotions about China's rise stem from a real threat or from a psychological discomfort. He will analyze the signals of the great power game potentially hidden behind a meticulously planned military parade. He will share how a small state like Singapore finds its way to survive in a world of giants. And he will pose a thought-provoking question. Has the framework we use to judge different political systems become far too simplified? This is a session of geopolitical insight filled with Asian wisdom. Let's continue.
Uh Europe is currently in the midst of a uh defining its future with future process future relationship with China. If I were to ask you a very simple question and there's a lot of fear associated with it uh in various European industries whether it's the the car industries of Germany that are certainly looking at the very competitive in innovative Chinese company EV companies uh they're looking at Chinese EV cars popping up on the streets of European cities and they are very uncomfortable about that. Uh so there's a lot of as I said fear usually they would say uh you know the typical European word would be overap Chinese over capacity uh uh what what do you think China wants in in this relationship the western world has has been so used to being dominant and of patronizing the non-western world that when China made rapid strides. It found it psychologically difficult to accept and there was an information campaign to kind of diminish China. The trouble is when you do that you deceive your own people and for too long a period there was a serious underestimation of what was happening in China. Even during the COVID years, all of us went through a difficult period and China was very tough. But within China itself, they had closed loop systems. So the industries continue to function. And during that period when most of us were at home working or pretending to work behind our screens and waiting for the parcels to arrive, who made the stuff in those parcels? They were all made in China, but China had co. So how is it they were able to make those stuff while we were at home behind our screens? There is a lack of information about China. And suddenly when the statist statistics break through the information war, people got angry. And I hear European leaders describing China as an enemy. I said, "Wait a minute. How can China be an enemy to Europe? I mean, China is far away. I mean, China an enemy. China is going to send aeroplanes and aircraft carriers and fire missiles at Europe. It's not going to happen. China threatens American dominance. That's for sure. China threatens Western dominance. That's for sure. But the period of American dominance and the period of western dominance was an aberration in world history. In most of world history, the world was diverse. China, however big, was never the dominant power because it's always inwardlooking. So my observation is this that Europe is still going through a period where the reality stares it in the face but the emotions still can accept it and is wrenching. So suddenly Europe uh Chinese electric vehicles have arrived and Mercedes-Benz Volkswagen BMW Reno they're all in trouble. So the instinct is to protect. I once had a email exchange with Pascal Lami whom I work with on trade. He said Europe should do what China did which is you want my market you set up joint ventures the way Volkswagen was in Tangon, the way Tesla was in Shanghai. join venture talk we learn and one day we will compete against you America should do that too but in the end the key is yourself because if you are strong and willing to learn and work hard then that joint venture is will improve you but of course if a joint venture leads to protection of the market, increase tariffs and it's just a reason for collecting rent then it will do you no good. So this is not a dilemma but a challenge which European countries have to address point blank. China is good in certain sectors. It cannot be good in all sectors and Europe has deep strength. So how do you play it and the technologies that you want? Well, China, you want my market, you invest here and you must have a joint venture partner. But it requires clarity and objective thinking in Brussels and in the major European countries.
Uh, let's talk about another poll. Uh, in a couple of weeks I think you're going to the US to give a lecture at Harvard Kennedy School. When you look at US today uh as a player the second Trump administration how do you read uh the administration and and what is it that the I asked you what China wants what does US want? I think the US is in a is in a going through a very difficult period. We've all followed the the murder of Charlie Kirk and it triggered off a reaction which has engage the emotions of millions of people millions of people you know and one wonders what's going to happen America is is divided can the divisions heal America has gone through many periods of division in its history the civil war the Vietnam war. So you it's common in Asia for people to feel that the US is on decline. But those of us who have worked live in the US know that the country has an enormous capacity to renew itself and to surprise us. It may be on the decline but it may not be on the decline. It may be able to recover. We don't know. And you cannot base your future on one outcome or the other. The future must be based upon either possibility and therefore a diversification of risk. China is rising. For how long will China rise for the next 20 years? Yes. Beyond that, who knows? So again, anticipate different possibilities and place your bets accordingly. Never pile all your chips on one number.
Do we have any questions uh from the audience for for George? Um yes, his excellency Australian ambassador to Croatia here in the first row. Yes, please. Thank you. A question, a comment and a question if I may. Uh so one of the key things I tell my staff about diplomacy is never burn bridges because you never know when someone's going to turn up in your timeline again. And so I just really want to acknowledge Mr. Yo uh I was a very young diplomat in Singapore and he was the trade minister at that time and um he he was very much a part of building a very strong bilateral relationship with Australia. So, thank you very much for that. Uh, a question. Uh, when I tell people I'm the Australian ambassador, one of the common reactions is, "Oh, it's so far away." And, and in in a sense, it is. Uh, and so part of my job here is to say why my part of the world is important to Croatia. So, I just want to enlist your voice, if I could. But why is Singapore, why is Southeast Asia, why is uh the Indopacific important to Croatia? When we look at Asia, we see three big realities. There is China where most of its history a self-sufficient civilization. The people are homogeneous. So when they are organized they always had the biggest internal market in the world and the Chinese if the rest of the world to disappear China can continue because it's big enough then there's a reality of India which is noisy confusing but which is spiritual always invaded never invading or hardly invading it will become the world's second biggest economy because of large numbers. Then there's Southeast Asia in between and Southeast Asia is half Muslim and Islam will be a growing theme in world history because by 2050 and many of you will be in your prime then by 2050 half the world's babies will be Muslim more or less half the world's babies which means in whatever you do you have to understand Islam It's so easy to say that Islam is a problem that Islam is this and that. The first thing is not to judge but to understand it in itself in its history in his achievements in his strengths and weaknesses. In Southeast Asia, we are Buddhist, we are Christian, we are Hindu, we are Muslim and we live with that. And because we have a sense of all the other big powers, I describe it as a place where the mandalas, the aura of China, of India, of the West overlap to different intensities in each of the 10 countries. When I was trade minister and foreign minister, I worked to make Australia a deep partner of Assan. Geographically is at the tail end of a great archipelago. Its past was western but its future is Asian. I never miss a single meeting of the Asia Australia Institute convened by Steve Fitzgerald and Gareth Evans because I believe in this passionately. But Australia oscillates between being a member of ASAN and being the 51st state of the US. It kind of swings back and forth. But I believe the pendulum in in the end will sink closer towards Asia and from that perspective as Australia which means that that whole string of peninsulas and archipelago leading all the way Antarctica this will be a very important region in the world which threatens nobody but which incorporates everybody and therefore in some way shining a into the future. That's how I would describe our joint destiny.
Maybe one question for me and then again back to the audience. But recently couple of well it was just very recent maybe last week there was a big parade in Beijing on the occasion of 80 year of end of the uh SinoJapanese war. Uh from Europe I think only a couple of leaders were present there. President Vuchich of Serbia and Fitz from uh Slovakia. Uh it seemed what what is your I mean how do you read that event? What was the message behind the the so meticulously planned and executed parade? Now in Chinese culture ritual is important. When China was unified 2,000 years ago, the first emperor ruled by law. It was so tough. People were killed, tortured. And when he died, his son could not hold the empire together. It was too tough. So the the next dynasty, the Han dynasty, which was contemporaneous with Rome, the republic and the and the and the empire, they they they adopted protocol, ritual, lee as a basis of organizing large numbers, how you deal deal with one another, the titles, positioning. Today if you go to China before an official photograph you don't just stand where you wish you stand where you're supposed to stand because that photograph will be studied by hundreds of millions of people as to who is standing where and what is it position. This is how China has been governed. So big parades are part of the way China governs a vast real Chinese soldiers could march with such astonishing precision is no indication of fighting ability. When I was in the armed forces, I trained with the US army. I visited Israel many times. The Israelis and Americans can't march for nuts, but they can fight. So there's no guarantee that because the Chinese march well they they can fight. What is interesting is not the ritual which you must expect in China. What is interesting is in the weapons they were displaying especially the new ones. And this is a poker game because the Chinese know they're getting stronger. So they don't want the US to miscalculate. So in a poker game you show some cards. Of course, the stronger cuts are hidden. I don't think the Chinese are bluffing. So, I think the stronger cars are hidden in the Pentagon. You must have read the pizza sales went up four four-fold. Papa Joe and Dominic because all those in the working at the Pentagon were busily watching, counting weapons, looking at who's who and what's what because China was sending a signal. And what is the signal they want to send? You may have secret weapons. I have secret weapons. But these are the cuts I open to you. So think carefully before you push me too hard because you may regret it. I don't want it because it's loose loose. But think carefully. So that is a true implication. And then the participation of Putin who's always been a favorite at these Chinese parades. I attended the same parade 10 years ago. I was a member of the Hong Kong delegation as an adviser to the Hong Kong chief executive. You wake up early in the morning, security check, it's so tedious, you're freezed, then you enter the space hours in advance, the sun was beating mercilessly, but you enjoy the parade. So when I watch it on television this time said, well, it's more or less the same parade. But okay, this is this is China. But what are they telling the Americans? It's better we don't fight because if we fight you may not win. I may not win. You'll be lose loose. The world will lose. That is the real meaning of that parade. And to reinforce it, you have Putin Kim Jong-un who who came by train because in this multipolar world, the western blockade of North Korea and Iran is broken. Is broken. Then a further remove which most news agencies clip out because they only show you Trump show you Sinping Putin and Ping Jang. Next was Tokayaf from Kazakhstan and Prao from Indonesia. Why Tokay and Prao? Because in 2013 Singing Ping announced the Bel and R initiative. He did it in Astana in August 2013 in Nazabay University and a month later he did it in Jakata to the DPR. This birth and road is a huge initiative. It's not a plan. It is it is a phase of history where China's economy will power the development of hundreds of millions of people. And to have them all coming out together was a signal to the G7. Please do not in your decision making think that you are the sole master of the universe. We are also here. That was the message.
Thank you very much. Uh, do we have a question from the audience? Uh, there's a student over there in the and then later on we'll go up. Yeah. And just briefly introduce yourself. Yeah. Hello. Well, I'm Luca, a first year student and I would like to ask you how crucial is it for Singapore to balance the ties with the major powers and what risk does the country face if the balance is lost? Thank you. Thank you. So I cited the example of Drafnik and Venice. You're a small power. You you are facing pressure from the US, from Japan, from China, from India, from Europe. So you've got to be skillful. No, try not to be in a room alone with somebody who's much bigger than you. That's a bit dangerous. So always go to an open space where there are big guys all around. Then it's okay. You can be yourself. So our international diplomacy is based upon inclusiveness and friendship with all the major powers. Now from time to time one of them will try to bully you and then you got to say okay you're a big guy so I move away to where the other big guys are then the bully looking at where you are then we say okay I understand this is how a small country survives now it's easier for us to do this if the region as a whole is united which is AEAN because all the other nan countries including the biggest Indonesia are small compared to the major powers and they also do not want to be in a room with nobody else but a major power. So in this common fear we find unity not a European unity which is uh a complex legal construction. Our is a loose unity of camaraderie of common perceptions. You know in Europe you vote all the time. In Assean we never vote. But our approach is we know we are small. We know we're non-threatening. We turn that into a strength by being friendly to everybody and therefore providing a platform where people feel that they are okay. They are treated equally. So you're Croatian. You come to Singapore, you feel at home. You're American, you come to Singapore, you feel at home. You're Chinese, you come to Singapore, you feel at home. You are Martian, you come to Singapore, I think you still feel at home. This is what we try to be.
Thank you very much. Uh, another question up there in the back. Yes, first in the back and then Tony, just briefly introduce yourself. Hi, are you listening to me? Yes. Okay. Uh, I'm Alexi from France and I had a question for you. Uh, have you noticed any like differences in term of uh international relations um about like trades uh since COVID? like have you seen or observed any deteriorations of international relationship since COVID um due to the competition of the reborn of reborning from COVID? Thank you. Is it clear? Yes. The the ice started to crack with the end of the cold war and is still cracking. CO saw the ice cracking much more quickly and in some ways President Trump is putting a blow torch to the ice to melt it more quickly. fast forwarding the future. But the general trend, the ice cracking into a world which is multipolar, that is like climate. It is almost a given. But trying to predict the weather day by day, week by week, month by month requires an attention to detail and careful tactical movements. Yeah.
Thank you very much. Another question over there, Tony. Thank you. Uh my name is Antonio. I'm from Croatia. Uh first, I would like to thank you for being here today because it's a real pleasure to listen to you speaking. And uh I was not planning to have a question, but the opportunity is too good to miss it today. So there's a very famous book called Why Nations Fail by James Robinson. I'm not sure if you know it, but I guess you do. And the point of the book is that the main thing that makes nations fail or rise is the institutions which can be inclusive or exclusive. And um the author gives many good examples of South and North North Korea and also the Spanish colonies in Latin America. And today you mention a couple of times China. Um, one of the biggest chapters in the book is about China where author explains that although the economy is inclusive and we have seen the growth over last 50 years in China because of its exclusive institutions they predict that in a long term that China will not see um let's say the status that US has today in the world. What are your thoughts on that? Thank you. That's excellent question. Governance is a complex business. It's part of what some philosophers uh describe as what is justice? Why do we have civilization? If we are if if you're alone on an island or Robinson Cruso that's it's not possible to live everything requires a division of labor. If you look at it from a accounting viewpoint on the left hand side is assets. That's a division of labor. You apply capital, land, labor, technology, people work together, you create a bigger pie. The right hand side is how you divide up the pie. Who gets what? Who holds the equity? Who holds the debentures? Who holds the whatever you know inherent in the right hand side is a sense of justice. Why should you get more than me? When we work together to bake the pie. Oh, because I'm clever. No, I'm because I have more capital. Yes. But does it mean that you should have this share? You imagine if the billionaires in the world, the the masters of the universe, people like uh Bezos and Zuckerberg and all these big billionaires, if this were in the village and this was an income inequality within the village, I think the knives will be out because it is not fair. So in a community, how much should the king get? How much should the peasant get? It depends on what is the historical sense of justice between husband and wife, between ministers and citizens, between priests and ley who should get what. So a society where the distribution is in accord with tradition and the sense of justice then people say yes this is fair I'm happy I'm happy therefore we cooperate therefore the pie grows bigger but if many of us are not happy they say forget it I'm leaving the kitchen then the pie shrinks in other words what is right for soc society depends a lot on his history, his culture, his value system. If the value system tells you that things should be shared in a certain way, but in the reality you don't, then there's tension. The problem with governance to reduce it to a struggle between autocracy and democracy to me is childish because democracies can be captured by vested interest, the voting system manipulated and the income inequality getting worse. In the US, the Supreme Court has ruled that there's no limit to super PAC funding, which means that it's $1,1 vote for election campaigning. Is that fair? If you own the main media, and I don't, but we have one man, one vote. Is that fair? In Australia and Singapore, voting is compulsory. You have to vote. Imagine applying it to America. Is that fair? Well, what is your history? What are the expectations? So when we judge China and see that China is autocratic. Yes, it is. Is there democracy in China? There is also democracy because there are levels of governance all the way down. Is China productive sometimes. Is it sometimes unproductive? Many times. And for China to me the key is corruption because corruption is rent collection outside the value system. Everyone knows that if you are corrupt is wrong regardless whether a democracy or an autocracy. You cannot be corrupt. If you as a duke gets land gets gold from the king it's okay. But if you steal that land or steal that goal that's wrong. So it's common now in the west to see sitting ping as a kind of a bad figure you know because he's authoritarian this and that but to me sitting pping has done something remarkable he has reversed the tendency towards corruption in China and he has been so relentless in tackling corruption that sometimes it seizes up the Chinese administrative machinery but I think it's more important to tackle corruption because corruption ion causes people to lose faith in the institutions that it's not right, it's not fair. Corruption led to the reformation of the Catholic Church. Corruption brings down monarchies. Corruption brings down democracies. So to me good governance has as a precondition corruption which is a detraction from what is considered fair in the distribution of rewards in the society in Singapore. You were quite successful in rooting out corruption. How I mean how did you do it? It's a constant struggle. We have laws. We pay civil servants good salaries even ministers. But the temptation to take is always there. So you must have lost. And if you get your hand in a cookie jar, well, you get smacked. And if enough hands are smacked, people will say, "No, don't don't don't fool around." You know, if you go to China today, it's very safe. It's very safe. you leave your someone did a a survey, you know, they left a notebook on the table in Paris, in London, in New York, in Rome, in Beijing to see how many minutes before it disappears, right? It's a like a big map test. You know, in China, he gave up. It's not disappearing. Now, if you are cynical, you say, "Yes, it's because there's so many cameras around. No one dares to steal." That's true. But it's also because after a while people said, "Look, this is the way to behave. The state of public toilets is always interesting. It's very difficult to find a dirty toilet in Japan because in the toilets there are no cameras, right? So it's between you and the toilet bowl. What is a value system? If you see something which you can put right, do you make it worse or you put it right? For the Japanese is internally driven. They feel a conscience. But in many places no one is looking who cares. To me that is one indicator of the quality of a society of the quality of the social contract. So look at the toilets next time you think about the country.
There one question over there. Yeah. uh Greek colleague Tony. Okay, quick question and we'll take a few and then George will answer. So I'm Tony. I'm a fourth year student and I just wanted to ask you, do you think that the Croatian government can replicate the success that the Singaporean um housing development board had with providing its citizens with like affordable housing? And like if I'm not mistaken, 80% of Singaporeans are like homeowners. They own their own homes and apartments. This is a very good question actually and this is not just relevant for Croatia but whole of European Union at the time. You probably saw that EU now has I think uh very much in focus of this new commission is the the housing issue uh that is uh not present only in Croatia but across the board in European countries. So thank you for the question. Well, uh u there is no secret formula for public housing and Singapore's public housing structure is is is is easily codified and reduced into a textbook open source is open source and we use it as a form of diplomacy to help other people and gain some goodwill for ourselves. So every city in China has studied the public housing system in Singapore and increasingly India too. It is never a problem of engineering and organization. It's always a problem of politics and the politics in every country is different. So you ask me about the housing problem in Croatia. I don't understand enough about the policies of of Croatia to give you an answer. But if Croatians want to come to Singapore to study a public housing program, to study where we have done right, where we've gone wrong, you're welcome.
Thank you very much. Yes. uh ME student from Greece. Just briefly introduce yourself. Nice shirt by the way. It's a great university, great shirt. Uh thank you uh first of all to uh to have you here. Uh my name is Mihalis. I come from uh Greece and I will um address you as I guess a proponent of political pragmatism and the question is about political pragmatism as it I would say it requires a sacrifice to break uh sometimes idealistic uh standards to to take unpopular uh opin um decisions and to have the orientation towards the long-term game with a short-term uh sacrifice. um in democracies uh like that we have in uh Europe where um politicians have a short-term orientation towards getting reelected. How can these uh decisions be properly communicated and uh justified towards the people so that more democracies can go towards this kind of uh orientation long-term orientation. Thank you. Thank you very much. In the in the Greek city states where democracy started, they knew one another and they cared for one another and they fought to help each other. Good democracies must have that direct nexus that we all feel that we are part of one community. In the same way, when we read The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith, and we're celebrating a big anniversary next year, the market works well when you have a sense of community. If you don't have a sense of community, then a liberal democracy, a free market is a way of playing a game to get more for yourself. And in a society which has lost a sense of democracy whether it's because of politics or because of massive inmigration where people are only interested in themselves their families and their friends then I think democracy breaks down. So for a long time the Scandinavians the democracies were direct it worked well till today in Switzerland where democracy is at a canton level there's a strong sense of community and it doesn't mean in the democracy that you don't think long term if you have a sense of community you will think long term but if you don't have a sense of community then you just grab what you can see so my answer to your question is look at a society and has it still got a strong sense of community. I think in Croatia you have and therefore it should work well for you but in many countries now it's just a game.
Thank you. One question over there. Mr. George, very pleased to meet you. My name is Alicander Leners. I from Brazil. I would like to ask you how do you see the recent uprising of bricks and the tentative of dellarization the world and how do you think the world will respond to that? Thank you. Thank you very much. You know in 208 when you had the GFC the global financial crisis the G7 countries did not have the ability to pull the world out from a deep hole. So George Bush convened the first summit. The second summit 209 in London. Gordon Brown chaired it and the the 20 countries agreed to coordinate fiscal and monetary policy. China uh introduced a budget 4 trillion rem to generate global demand. It created enormous distortion in the Chinese economy where it helped to get the world out from that crisis. With the Ukraine war, the G the G20 has broken down. is no longer effective and the G7 for the western countries has recovered its old primacy but there's a danger that compared to 208 the G7 today is even a smaller share of the global economy than at that time and if the world goes into another hole there's no way the G7 can get us out of it requires coordination with many more countries bricks is not to counter the G7 because you still need the G7. Bricks is a way a deterrent to the G7 not to ignore other countries is to keep the G7 honest. Russia may want the G7 to be anti- West because of what is facing. But neither China nor India nor Brazil nor South Africa want it to be an anti-Western organization. For this reason, till today, the G7 has not even got a secretarian. It only has a steering committee because slowly slowly, let's play it and see how the G7 reacts. If the G7 doesn't learn, then you'll begin to have a small secretariat. Then you'll begin to develop legs and wings. Then it'll be a different world. But for the time being, it is to keep the G7 honest. And on the dollar dearization of dollar issue, do you have a a view? Well, from a climatic viewpoint, the the the exorbitant privilege enjoyed by the US dollar is it's an operation. It cannot continue forever. Um so the question is when and how and the weaponization of the dollar and of the financial system the confiscation of Russian given to Maduro's gold being kept in the bank of England and given to his opponent not really but in name all this would have convinced wealthy people and governments to say look be careful about western financial institutions. The politics may change and they may take your your assets. So I see western action accelerating the decline of the US dollar but for the time being it's very important and many of us need the US dollar. He said the cookie will crumble. When will it crumble? How will it crumble? You don't know but it will crumble.
What we have just witnessed was a session filled with wisdom. Mr. George Yo with Singapore's unique global hub perspective has provided us with a calm, pragmatic framework to understand a world undergoing profound change. In this discussion, he didn't offer easy answers. Instead, he guided us toward deeper thinking. He framed Europe's reaction to China's rise as a complex issue of historical status and psychological adjustment. He interpreted a military ceremony as a form of strategic communication between great powers designed to prevent miscalculation, revealing the deep logic beneath the surface. Using the vivid analogy of never being in a room alone with a giant, he illuminated the survival wisdom of small states on the geopolitical chessboard. He also reminded us that when we use conventional labels to judge other countries, we risk misunderstanding the true logic of their internal governance. The value of this dialogue lies in the precious perspective it offers from the crossroads of east and west, helping us to step outside of a singular framework to observe the world. It leaves us with several questions to reflect on. First, after hearing the perspective from a senior diplomat of a global hub state, should we reconsider the unique value that a small state viewpoint brings to understanding great power competition? Second, to what extent do the conventional labels we use, such as democracy and autocracy, limit our objective understanding of different governance models and their effectiveness? And third, in an increasingly interconnected yet divided world, how important is it for us to actively seek out and understand these rational voices from the crossroads to navigate the future? We are eager to hear your thoughts in the comments below. If you found this episode valuable, please like, comment, share, and subscribe to our channel.