Transcription
Foreign. Hello, hello, hello everybody. Welcome back to Perplexity, a mystery podcast. I'm your host, Kedra. So excited that you guys are here listening today. I have a very big, insane, and upsetting story for you guys. I, I don't think I can look at the government the same ever again after learning about this. Not that they were great to begin with, but the more you know. So we're gonna get into all of that very soon.
But first, I just wanted to take care of a couple housekeeping things. As always, if you like what you've been hearing on the podcast, don't forget to please, please, please leave a five-star review on whatever platform you're listening on and follow the podcast so that you know when new episodes are being released. You can share the podcast with your friends, your family, post the link on your socials. That way, I can keep getting these stories to more people. It's, it's so appreciated. You guys are amazing.
Also, I wanted to acknowledge, I have some new listeners in Malaysia. So, hello! Wow, thank you so much for listening. Perplexity has listeners in 10 countries now. So thank you guys so much. This is all thanks to you. Also, I recognize that by the time this episode comes out, I'm going to be relaying that message really late because I've done a bunch of batch recording, but thank you, Malaysia, for listening. That's amazing.
You can also follow me on Instagram, @perplexitymysterypodcast, for the latest Perplexity updates. And don't forget, you can send any stories or topic requests, anything you just want to share with me that I can read on the podcast too. Uh, either DM me on Instagram or you can send me an email at perplexitymysterypodcast@gmail.com.
If you missed last week's episode, oh man, you missed a good one. Go back and check that out. That was the Kasha House, which is also known as the most haunted house in Hawaii. So that was a really fun one. Definitely go listen to that.
All of the sources for today's episode are going to be listed in the show notes. I'm also going to put a couple of books in there, uh, that I will also be referencing, uh, throughout this episode, but also just a great place to, you know, check those sources, read the books if you want to learn more. There is also a five-part series on Last Podcast on the Left that covers this story. It's like 10 hours worth of material. So if you like that style of podcast, Last Podcast on the Left has way, way more about this.
Trigger warning for today's episode. Today's episode discusses topics that will likely be disturbing to everyone, um, but sensitive listening is advised for listeners below the age of 13.
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Okay, everyone. Today we are going to be talking about Project MKUltra. And I had heard of MKUltra, but to be honest, I really didn't know much about it. And one of my friends, when he found out I was doing this podcast, mentioned it, said I should look into it. And damn, buckle the hell up, you guys. If you have never heard of MKUltra, or if you maybe know just a little bit about it, that's what we're going to be talking about today. And I mean, there's so much to this. I, there's no way I could cover all of it in one episode, let alone two. So I, I am gonna try to go deep here, but also there's way, way, way more to MKUltra than we're gonna have time to get into today. So like I said, if you want to learn more, go check out the five-part series on Last Podcast on the Left. They did an amazing job. Um, you can also go to the show notes and check out those books that talk all about this in way more detail than we have time for.
Project MKUltra is arguably the biggest, quote-unquote, conspiracy theory out there. But I just want to preface this by saying, there are thousands and thousands of documents and witnesses proving that this did in fact happen. So this is not a conspiracy. This definitely did happen. And I'm very upset to inform you of that, but it did. And that's what we're going to talk about.
In December of 1974, a New York Times article hits the press. The article was written by a journalist named Seymour M. Hirsch. And the article alleged that the Central Intelligence Agency, or the CIA, had been surveying U.S. citizens since the 1950s. And from this surveying, they gathered a lot of information. Apparently, 10,000 intelligence files on U.S. citizens. And this information was allegedly gathered by opening mail of U.S. citizens, wiretapping phone calls, following and photographing citizens, and even breaking into their private properties.
An excerpt from the article read, "Under the National Security Act of 1947, setting up the CIA, the agency was forbidden to have police, subpoena, law enforcement powers, or internal security functions inside the United States. Those responsibilities fall to the FBI, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, which maintains a special internal security unit to deal with foreign intelligence threats."
The CIA was established in September 1947, and the National Security Act became law in July 1947, just two months prior. The purpose of the CIA was supposedly to investigate internationally, not internally. So this article comes out, and the CIA is still incredibly new. It's been like three months since the CIA was established. But with that being said, before the CIA was the CIA, it was known as the Office of Strategic Services, or the OSS.
So in 1942, I don't know if you guys heard that, but, um, my dryer just went off, so I heard a little buzz. Anyway, in 1942, the OSS became the first independent U.S. intelligence agency. It only lasted for a little over three years, but it became the basis for the modern CIA. The OSS was formed as an agency of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to coordinate espionage, or spy activities, behind enemy lines for all branches of the United States Army forces, or Armed Forces. Other OSS functions included the use of propaganda, subversion, and post-war planning.
So by the time that World War II started, President Roosevelt realized that there was a need for some sort of coordination for the gathering of intelligence. He chose General William, also known as Wild Bill Donovan, to be the leader of the Office of the Coordinator of Information, also known as the COI. And this was established July 11, 1941. Donovan was a highly decorated war hero from the First World War. And by 1941, Donovan, a graduate of Columbia Law School, had a highly successful career predating the First World War as a lawyer in private practice and government service. The OSS, by the way, would be heavily populated, populated by lawyers during its existence, along with other wealthy and well-established white men.
Throughout the war, there were still a lot of rivalries between the OSS and other U.S. departments. The OSS kind of played by their own rules, and they didn't mind butting heads with people, essentially. But the OSS especially did not get along with the FBI, the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The FBI basically knew that the OSS was operating lawlessly and doing a lot of corrupt things, even on U.S. soil. So the FBI started spying on the OSS and blowing the whistle on them as much as possible.
As the war was ending in 1945, Wild Bill Donovan attempted to preserve the OSS for the post-war world. But the Army, Navy, State Department, and the FBI would have none of this. They were sick of their [ __ ] and Donovan was not as skilled a bureaucratic fighter as his opponents. So with the death of his ally, FDR, he was now facing a new and skeptical president. The Army and the FBI, in particular, organized a PR campaign and they leaked false allegations that the OSS would be given operational power in the United States and become, as one reporter dubbed, the American Gestapo. Donovan was ordered to disband the OSS in just 10 days, and on October 1st, 1945, the OSS was no more.
Okay, so now going forward, uh, to this New York Times article again in 1974. When this article was released, the idea of the government spying on us was, you know, kind of new. I know we are a lot more numb to that now, but something like this, uh, in this time period, and the idea of the government breaking into people's personal property, opening their mail, this was not only a huge accusation, but it freaked a lot of people out. It was a very big deal.
So the new president, President Gerald R. Ford, became involved in this too, and he launched an investigation into the CIA because of these claims. In 1975, starting with the Rockefeller Commission, followed by a more thorough investigation with the Church Committee in 1975. The Church Committee uncovers a project known as MKUltra. In this project, the CIA had been conducting experiments on human beings with the use of drugs, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, torture, and much, much more. So that's the kind of story we're going to be getting into.
In January of 1973, the CIA Director Richard Helms ordered all documents related to MKUltra be destroyed, and the project was concluded. This order came right in the middle of the Watergate scandal, which went on from 1972 to 1974 with President Nixon. After a break-in at the Democratic National Committee in 1972, it was revealed that the White House was involved with Watergate and tried to cover it up. It was determined that wiretapping and other illegal activities had been conducted to aid Nixon in the presidential re-election. So this led to Nixon resigning ultimately to avoid the inevitable possibility of him being impeached. So that's the political climate at this time. And because of essentially a guilty conscience, the CIA also made this decision to destroy any documents tied to Project MKUltra, or so they thought.
In 1977, remaining documents were obtained from a retired records center after a Freedom of Information Act request. One of the things I love about this story is that it seems like the only reason these documents were discovered is because they had been incorrectly filed. So it sounds like these are the files that should have been destroyed, but somebody in the CIA messed up and didn't file them correctly. So they ended up at this record center by mistake. And thanks to the wonderful Freedom of Information Act, these documents were then able to be recovered.
Most of the documents were financially related. However, the documents did contain details including the scope of the project, the names of persons and institutions involved in the project. And these findings allowed for a deeper investigation and Senate hearings. To fully understand Project MKUltra and what led up to it, you have to know some of the history dating back to the early 1900s. So let's go back for a little bit.
During World War I, the U.S. government was convinced that the Soviet Union was testing some sort of mind control, particularly with different drugs and serums. And the CIA was aware that Nazi scientists were using a drug called mescaline, which is similar to LSD, on people in concentration camps during World War II. So with the CIA knowing that Nazi Germany has access to these drugs, and with the United States always wanting to race ahead and figure things out and keep control, the CIA and the U.S. government ultimately decided to do some experimenting of their own.
Now, I do want to talk a little bit about LSD. You know, what the effects of it are for those of you who may not be aware. LSD was first synthesized in 1938, so just a little bit before all this takes place. And it's extremely potent. It's a hallucinogen, and it's commonly known as acid. It's synthetically made from lysergic, or lysergic acid, which is found in ergot, a fungus that grows on rye and other grains. And it is so potent that its doses tend to be in the microgram range.
The effects of LSD can be stimulating, pleasurable, and mind-altering. In some cases, it could lead to an unpleasant, sometimes terrifying experience with hallucinations, and this is often called a bad trip. LSD's half-life is about three hours, but it ranges between two hours and five hours, and the psychoactive effects can last up to 12 hours.
LSD can be found on the streets in various forms. For example, blotter paper, where the LSD is soaked onto sheets of absorbent paper with colorful designs, cut into small individual dosage units. The most common form, it sounds like, is the blotter paper, I think. And then it can also come in like thin squares of gelatin, commonly referred to as window panes. It can come in tablets or capsules, liquid on sugar cubes, or pure liquid form, which can be extremely potent.
So the physical effects of LSD are kind of unpredictable from person to person. And usually, the first effects of the drug when taken by mouth are felt 30 to 45 minutes after taking it. The peak is at two to four hours, and it may last 12 hours or longer. The effects could include hallucinations, distorted visual perception of shapes and colors, altered sounds, anxiety, depression, flashbacks days or months later, rapid heart rate, increased body temperature, high blood pressure, and dilated pupils. There can also be extreme changes in mood, and if it's taken in large enough doses, the drug can produce delusions, visual hallucinations. It can also lead to severe psychosis. If you take too much, death is often due to direct injury while under the influence of LSD. And there is no known lethal dose of LSD, which a lot of people think is one of the things that they were checking in Project MKUltra: how much could you give a person to have control over them without killing them? LSD can also cause tremors and seizures. You can also experience impaired depth and time perception, a distorted perception of the size and shape of objects. Sensations may seem to cross over, giving the feeling of hearing colors and seeing sounds.
So at the time that human experimentation with LSD in the CIA started, we did not at all have an understanding of this drug yet. And the doses that were used in these experiments were much, much stronger and not properly regulated, uh, compared to what the average person may take recreationally now. So this LSD was pure, way too strong, and very dangerous, to put it bluntly.
So Project MKUltra became possible largely because of several other operations. The first one I want to mention is Operation Paperclip. And I could do a whole other episode alone about Operation Paperclip, so I'm just going to give you the main summary. So Operation Paperclip was a secret United States intelligence program in which more than 1,600 German scientists, engineers, and technicians were taken from the former Nazi Germany to the U.S. for government employment. And this was after the end of World War II in Europe, between 1945 and 1959. This was conducted by the JIOA, the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency. And it was largely carried out by Special Agents of the U.S. Army's Counter-Intelligence Corps, or the CIC. Many of these personnel were former members, and some were former leaders of the Nazi Party. A quick round of applause for the U.S. being so shitty.
So during this time period, there were many other projects that, again, we simply don't have time to get into deep dives about. But I do want to mention Project Chatter and Project Artichoke. So Project Chatter was a United States Navy program that began in the fall of 1947. And its focus was to identify and test drugs during interrogations and during the recruitment stage for agents. Their search included laboratory experiments on both animals and human subjects. The program operated under the direction of Charles Savage of the Naval Medical Research Institute in Bethesda, Maryland. And this went on from 1947 to 1953. The project was centered on, but not restricted to, the use of anabasine, an alkaloid, scopolamine, and mescaline. And the program ended shortly after the Korean War in 1953.
Project Artichoke was a mind control program that gathered information together with the intelligence divisions of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and FBI. In addition, the scope of the project was outlined in a memo dated in January of 1952 that asked, "Can we get control of an individual to the point where he will do our bidding against his will and even against fundamental laws of nature such as self-preservation?" Dear government, please stop.
So Project Artichoke was the Central Intelligence Agency's secret codename for carrying out in-house and overseas experiments, including LSD, hypnosis, and total isolation as forms of physiological harassment for special interrogation on humans. At first, agents used cocaine, marijuana, heroin, peyote, and mescaline, but they increasingly saw LSD as the most promising drug. I don't know if it's peyote or payote, so P-E-Y-O-T-E. That's just my ignorance. I, I know someone's gonna hear this and be like, "How do you not know what that is?" But they were testing a bunch of drugs, okay?
The subjects who left this project were fogged with amnesia, resulting in faulty and vague memories of their experience. And in 1952, LSD was increasingly given to CIA agents unknowingly to determine the drug's effects on unsuspecting people. So basically, they wanted to test this drug and its effects in every way possible. Like, they wanted to see how people would react when they didn't know they had taken it, when they had known they had taken it, they wanted to test it on agents and, quote-unquote, higher level functioning and lower level functioning people. According to one record, an agent was kept on LSD for 77 consecutive days.
So with these genius scientists and literal Nazis that had already had all of this experience with human experimentation, hello, the Holocaust, and unlimited LSD at their fingertips, the U.S.'s demon child, MKUltra, was born. So the project began in 1953 and it was led by a chemist named Sydney Gottlieb and his deputy, Robert Lashbrook. And we are going to talk about him a lot more later. Mr. Lashbrook. Gottlieb was an American chemist and a spymaster, and he had pretty much free reign with his experiments. His supervisors weren't really involved, and some supervisors seem to have been ill-informed on what exactly Gottlieb was doing. And I don't know if this was intentional or they just didn't really care.
So Gottlieb came up with the idea of, "Hey, what if we were able to create a truth serum that could be used in interrogations?" Oh, and also, what if LSD could erase someone's memories and be used as a source of control? Ultimately, the goal was to be able to use this drug as a tool to spy on other countries and get information, particularly from enemy captives.
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During this time, like I mentioned, LSD was still very misunderstood. It was an experimental drug. It was not recreational in any way, and people knew that it had psychedelic effects, but that's about it. And this is a scary thought because you want your government to have knowledge of what these different chemicals can do to a person, like if there was some type of terrorism or abduction involving LSD. But at the same time, they're also using this power and knowledge and taking extreme advantage of us.
So basically, what happens next is the CIA purchased all available LSD from everywhere at that time. And LSD is synthetic. It's solely created in labs. So they basically got their hands on as much LSD as they could from labs around the world. Under the umbrella of the MKUltra project, more than 150 research projects were done across the country, including at universities. The universities involved often didn't know the truth or extent behind what they were researching. It's unclear how many people were experimented on due to destruction of documents, but we do know that number one, these experiments went on for 20 years, and number two, we know that there are 20,000 documents still available that were recovered thanks to that Freedom of Information Act.
So this leads to the question of, if we have this many documents available, how many were there that were destroyed? And what the heck was in those files? If we know this much, how much do we not know? According to journalist Stephen Kinzer, Gottlieb's mind control experiments were a process. He said, "First, you had to blast away the existing mind. Second, you had to find a way to insert a new mind into that resulting void. We didn't get too far on number two, but we did a lot of work on number one." End quote. Sorry, excuse me. Again, dear government, please stop. Oh God.
So in May of 1953, Richard Helms, the director of the CIA, held a staff meeting. The chief of technical services staff was in attendance. And during the meeting, Helms warned the agency of the dangers of LSD and required he be contacted anytime it was going to be used. CIA officer Frank Wisner sent a memorandum to the Technical Services, which would require approval of any use of LSD. Gottlieb conducted these experiments without approval from Technical Services or from the Director of Plans. So he basically flipped everyone off in the CIA and said, "I don't care what you say, I'm gonna keep going."
So you're probably starting to wonder now about these experiments. What exactly happened? What was the protocol? Who was involved? Well, I would love to tell you. The first experiment was done in Kentucky by the National Institute of Mental Health. I'm going to read that again. The first experiment was done in Kentucky by the National Institute of Mental Health. How wonderful.
So patients being treated for addiction were offered drugs of their choice if they elected to participate in these experiments. Patients being treated for addiction were offered drugs of their choice if they elected to participate in these experiments. One patient was given LSD for 174 consecutive days. Another patient, named Whitey Bulger, was given LSD every day for over a year, and he was told that it was being used to find a cure for schizophrenia, which, spoiler alert, that's not the reason.
Some military personnel and CIA employees were also given LSD, sometimes without their consent, while others were more voluntary in nature. This was because Sydney Gottlieb wanted to see if the effects of LSD were any different in a public setting, and if there was any difference in the drug's effects when it was given to someone without them knowing. Fellow employees that hadn't taken the drug were then instructed to take notes on their participants' behaviors, observing their demeanor and their activities.
The idea of the test subject being unaware that they were being drugged became a lot more elaborate in a sub-research project under MKUltra that became known as Midnight Climax. And you will see why it's called Midnight Climax very soon. Midnight Climax took place in San Francisco, California. And the CIA created these safe houses to conduct these experiments with hidden two-way mirrors. They hired sex workers to operate out of these safe houses, hence the name Midnight Climax. So these sex workers would bring their clients to these safe houses, and the leaders of this experiment would give the clients LSD without their knowledge. And I couldn't find exactly how they gave it to them, but I mean, it could have been in like a drink that the sex worker gave them, who knows. So anyway, they were drugged without their knowledge.
We also know that there were experiments done under Project MKUltra in Canada, including Subproject 68. Subproject 68 took place at the Allan Memorial Institute in Montreal, Quebec, which is still in operation. And at this time, Allan Memorial was a psychiatric hospital and research institute. Patients involved in experiments there were subjected to sensory deprivation, shock therapy, large doses of LSD, and something called psychic driving. Some were reduced to an infantile state and never recovered.
I didn't know what psychic driving was, so I looked it up and I was horrified. So if you don't know what this is, I'm gonna read this quote to you straight from Wikipedia, and, uh, we can be horrified together. Quote: "Psychic driving was a psychiatric procedure of the 1950s and 1960s in which patients were subjected to a continuously repeated audio message on a looped tape to alter their behavior. In psychic driving, patients were often exposed to hundreds of thousands of repetitions of a single statement over the course of their treatment. They were also concurrently administered muscular paralytic drugs such as curare, C-U-R-A-R-E, to subdue them for the purposes of exposure to the looped messages. The procedure was pioneered by Dr. D. Ewan Cameron and was used and funded by the CIA's Project MKUltra program in Canada." End quote. Can you imagine how terrifying that would be? You're being drugged, and you just hear the same audio message playing over and over and over again. That's torture.
So this process, it sounds like, was spearheaded at Allan Memorial by Dr. Cameron. And this torture, this brainwashing, electroshock therapy was also known as depatterning. Patients were also sometimes put into medically induced comas. The family of a victim, Esther Schreer, came forward with her story after she had experienced depatterning when she had simply tried to seek treatment for her postpartum depression. After she had been pregnant with her son, Lloyd, she was feeling, you know, an incredibly common feeling of depression, experiencing something that millions of women go through. And she wanted to take care of herself and her son and go get treatment at a medical professional, quote-unquote, facility. And she was tortured. Disgusting.
While we know some information about Subproject 68, there's still a lot more that we don't know. Even more is unknown when we look overseas. And MKUltra experiments with LSD and sensory deprivation, we know took place at detention centers in Japan, Germany, the Philippines, and other countries. And this was done on people being held for interrogation.
In 1963, Sydney Gottlieb decided mind control wasn't possible. So the project was renamed from Project MKUltra to MKSearch. MKSearch had two subprojects: MKOften and MKChikwit. MKOften dealt with testing the behavioral and toxicological effects of certain drugs on animals and humans. MKChikwit sought to identify new drug developments in Europe and Asia and to obtain information and samples. Funding for MKSearch continued until 1971.
With all of these experiments, we don't know how many people died. But we know that there was at least one confirmed death. It's believed there were many more, but the victim we can confirm was a 43-year-old man named Frank Olson. Frank was a scientist and a CIA officer. He had a PhD in bacteriology, and he had been involved in research for biological weapons, including research for anthrax.
We know that when Frank was in Maryland in November 1953, he had a drink laced with LSD while he was at a team retreat. He was not aware that his drink had been laced. Several other employees were also drugged without their knowledge. Some sources claim they were informed about 20 minutes after the fact, which I almost feel like is worse. Other sources say they were never informed. And when Olson came back home that weekend, he was very quiet. And his wife reported he said he had made a very grave mistake. And I think that's alluding to, he felt it was a mistake to join the CIA. He also at this time was very jittery, he was having trouble sleeping, he had cognitive changes where he was having difficulty concentrating, and he even had difficulty spelling.
After he returned to work on Monday, Olsen attempted to quit his job. When he was asked why, he said he was experiencing significant self-doubt. Olson's supervisor, Vincent Ruet, advised him to see a CIA psychiatrist in New York. So Olson agreed. He went and saw this psychiatrist, and Vincent Ruet went along with him. Robert Lashbrook, the CIA chemist, also went. You remember him? He worked directly under Sydney Gottlieb. Lashbrook was also laced at the LSD retreat, but Lashbrook also was the one who laced the drinks with Gottlieb's supervision. So now Frank Olson is going to see this psychiatrist that his CIA supervisor recommended, and the guy that drugged him is also going with them. What could go wrong, right?
The psychiatrist in New York, also, in case you all haven't figured it out yet, was not a psychiatrist at all. He was an allergist involved with the MKUltra project, Dr. Harold Abramson. So after all of this, Olson returned home for Thanksgiving. The next day, on November 27th, he called his wife and he told her he was feeling better. Lashbrook also commented that Olson appeared to be back to his old self again and in good spirits. But on November 28th, at about 2 AM, Olson "quote-unquote" fell 13 stories from his hotel window at Hotel Statler. The doorman found his body and told the night manager, who contacted law enforcement. Olson was accompanied by Lashbrook, who police found seated on the toilet with his head in his hands. Lashbrook and Olson had been sharing a hotel room the night he was murdered, or sorry, fell. Whoops, fell, guys. He fell. It was never proven, but let's look at the evidence. Star. Let's keep going.
Lashbrook claimed he had been sleeping and woke up after he heard a noise. The phone records for the room were looked at, and it was found that someone called Dr. Harold Abramson, the psychiatrist they had seen in New York. The caller from the room stated, "Well, he's gone." And Abramson replied, "Well, that's too bad." Olson was buried three days later in a sealed casket. Olson's family was told that he had either fallen or jumped.
So let's go back now to 1975, when all of these mysterious documents were found revealing Project MKUltra. One of these documents referenced an unnamed individual that died as a result of drug testing in 1953. The Army consulted the CIA and confirmed the unnamed individual was Frank Olson. So the CIA admits to his death. And this documentation, a colleague of Olson's then contacted the family and told them this to basically try and give them some closure. They even received a written apology from President Gerald Ford and were offered a $750,000 settlement to not file a claim against the U.S. government. And this would be about four million dollars in today's money.
The CIA still denies any foul play in Frank Olson's death. Eric Olson, Frank's son, believes he was pushed out of the window. Eric and Olson's other son, Nils, also exhumed Frank Olson's body in 1994 to get a new autopsy. This new autopsy raised suspicions about Frank Olson's cause of death. Law and forensic science professor James E. Starrs found it strange that Frank's body didn't have any cuts that would have occurred from falling through a glass window. So from what I could find, it sounds like the actual scene of the crime, there was shattered glass in the hotel room, and it appeared he broke through a closed window. Starrs said, "It's not inconceivable that someone could have broken the window after he went through it to make it appear as if he had gone through the window as a crazy person would. I am skeptical that anyone could clear a radiator, a 31-inch high windowsill, pass through a three by five foot window opening obscured by a drawn shade, all in the darkness of a hotel room at night."
So essentially, you'd have to like, really be going for it, like dive through the window, through the shade, through the glass to jump to your death. The team also found blows that occurred to Frank Olson's head before death. The autopsy found the cause of death to be inconclusive. So it sounds like Lashbrook allegedly could have beaten Frank unconscious or stunned him somehow, threw him out the open window, then closed the window and smashed it to make it look like he ran through it. And if that's what happened, I think that was his fatal mistake, smashing the window.
Many people believe Frank Olson was murdered because he was seen as a security threat. His knowledge of MKUltra and him having the highest clearance level in the CIA could have very well made him a threat. It's unlikely that we will ever know the full truth about Project MKUltra. And as I said before, we found 20,000 documents, and those were just the ones misfiled by accident. So who knows what else went down in all these different states and countries with free reign on experiments across a 20-year period. And that is the story of MKUltra.
Good. Thank you guys for listening to this episode. If you've been enjoying the podcast, there are some ways you can support. You can share the podcast with friends and family. You can share it on your social media. Tell the world about it. Leave a five-star review. Follow the podcast. And don't forget, you can always request topics or you can tell me a crazy story by DMing me on Instagram at @perplexitymysterypodcast or by sending me an email at perplexitymysterypodcast@gmail.com. Thank you guys so much for listening, and I will talk to you soon. Bye.
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