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Why Consciousness Exists Beyond the Brain | Leonard Susskind

Beyond Human Science33:12

Transcription

I'm about to tell you something that will sound completely insane. Your brain does not create consciousness. I know how this sounds. I know what uh neuroscience tells us. I know that anesthesia turns consciousness off. I know that brain damage changes personality and awareness. I know that psychoactive drugs alter subjective experience by changing brain chemistry. I know that every conscious experience we've ever studied correlates with brain activity. All of that is true and none of it proves that the brain creates consciousness.

The correlation between brain states and conscious states is overwhelming. The dependence of consciousness on brain function is undeniable. But correlation is not causation. Dependence is not creation. And the assumption that brains produce consciousness from unconscious matter, that awareness emerges from neurons firing, is exactly that, an assumption, one that might be fundamentally wrong.

I am not a dualist. I don't believe consciousness is some immaterial soul floating around independent of physics. I don't believe in vitalism or supernatural explanations. I'm a physicist. I have spent 50 years working with the most reductive mathematical mechanistic theories we have. Quantum field theory, general relativity, string theory. But I've also spent 50 years thinking carefully about what we actually know versus what we assume. And when I look at the question of consciousness, really look at it with the same rigor I apply to black holes or quantum entanglement, I find that the evidence for brains creating consciousness is far weaker than almost everyone assumes.

What if consciousness doesn't emerge from matter? What if it's the other way around? Matter emerges from something more fundamental, something that includes or relates to consciousness? What if the reductive materialist story we've been telling ourselves for two centuries is missing something profound? Let me show you why this seemingly crazy idea might be worth taking seriously.

The hard problem of consciousness. Uh let me start with what philosophers call the hard problem of consciousness. This was articulated most clearly by David Chamers in 1995 though the problem is much older. The easy problems of consciousness, easy being relative, are questions like how does the brain process information? How does it integrate sensory input? How does it control behavior? How does memory work? These are tremendously difficult neuroscience problems, but they're tractable. We're making progress. We can imagine in principle giving complete mechanistic explanations.

The hard problem is different. The hard problem is why is there subjective experience at all? When you see red, there's a specific quality, a specific character to the experience of redness, not just wavelength detection, not just neural firing pattern, the felt quality of seeing red, what philosophers call what it's like to have that experience. You can give a complete mechanistic account of how the brain detects light at 650 nanometers, how the retina transduces it to neural signals, how visual cortex processes those signals, how the brain categorizes the color and triggers appropriate responses. And when you've explained all of that, you still haven't explained why there's anything it's like to see red, why there's a subjective experience at all. Why the information processing is accompanied by awareness. This is the hard problem. And after decades of neuroscience progress, after mapping neural coralates of consciousness with exquisite detail, after understanding vast amounts about brain function, the hard problem remains exactly as hard as it ever was. We have not reduced subjective experience to objective mechanism. We have not explained why physical processes give rise to phenomenology. We have not bridged the explanatory gap.

This might be because we don't yet have the right theory. Consciousness might emerge from sufficiently complex information processing in ways we haven't discovered. This is the standard neuroscience view. Or it might be because emergence is the wrong framework entirely. Because consciousness is not produced by brains. Because we've been asking the wrong question all along.

Why emergence might not work? Let me be precise about why emergence might fail as an explanation for consciousness. Emergence works beautifully for many phenomena. Temperature emerges from molecular kinetic energy. Liquidity emerges from molecular interactions. Biological function emerges from chemistry. Economies emerge from individual transactions. In all these cases, the emergent property is a high-level description of the low-level dynamics. Temperature is average kinetic energy. Liquidity is a collective behavior of molecules. There's no mystery about how you get from micro to macro. It's just statistics and dynamics.

But consciousness is not like this. Consciousness is not a high-level description of neural dynamics. It's not an average. It's not a statistical property. It's not even a functional property in the usual sense. Consciousness has first person ontology. It exists only from the inside. You cannot observe someone else's subjective experience. You can observe their brain, their behavior, their reports. But the quality, the felt experience itself is inaccessible to third person observation. This creates a fundamental asymmetry. All other emergent phenomena have third person ontology. They exist objectively accessible to any observer. Temperature can be measured by anyone with a thermometer. Liquidity is visible to anyone who looks. But consciousness is not like this. Your subjective experience is directly accessible only to you. For everyone else, it's inferred. We assume other people are conscious because they behave like us and report experiences like ours. But uh we cannot observe their consciousness directly. This asymmetry suggests consciousness might not be emergent in the usual sense. Emergent properties are objective. Consciousness is irreducibly subjective. How do you get the subjective from the objective? Some philosophers argue you can't. That subjective experience cannot emerge from purely objective processes. That consciousness requires something beyond mechanism, something beyond physics as currently understood. I'm not certain they're right, but I'm also not certain they're wrong.

Uh, the radical alternative, the most radical alternative to emergence is pans psychism. The idea that consciousness or something like it is fundamental. Pansychism says consciousness is not produced by brains. Consciousness or protoconsciousness is a basic feature of reality like mass or charge. It's everywhere in everything. At some level, elementary particles have some primitive form of experience. Not thoughts, not self-awareness, not anything like human consciousness. Just some very basic minimal protophenomenal property, some faint glimmer of what it's likeness. Complex systems like brains don't create consciousness from nothing. They integrate and amplify the protoconsciousness of their constituent parts. Human consciousness is what trillions of protoconscious elements feel like when organized in the right way. This sounds absurd. Electrons don't have feelings. Quarks don't experience. The idea is ridiculous. Except the alternative is that consciousness emerges from things that have zero consciousness. That you can get experience from non-experience. that subjectivity arises from pure objectivity. And when you really think about that, it's equally mysterious. Pansychism has a long philosophical history. Linenets, Spinosa, Whitehead, Bertrand Russell considered versions of it. Recently, it's had a resurgence. Philosophers like Philip Goff, David Chamers, and Galen Strawson take it seriously, not because they have evidence for it. because the alternatives seem even worse. Let me be clear. I'm not endorsing pansychism. I'm saying it's not obviously crazier than the standard view. And the fact that serious philosophers are reconsidering it suggests the problem of consciousness is deeper than neuroscience acknowledges.

Integrated information theory. There's a more scientific version of something like pansychism. Integrated information theory or IIT developed by neuroscientist Julio Tannon and colleagues. IIT proposes a mathematical measure of consciousness. [snorts] FI fee fi measures the amount of integrated information in a system. Information that cannot be decomposed into independent parts. The higher the FI, the more conscious the system. A human brain has very high FI. It's massively integrated. Every part influences every other part. Consciousness in IIT is identical to high integrated information. Here's where it gets strange. IIT implies that consciousness is not unique to brains. Any system with integrated information has some degree of consciousness. A thermostat has extremely lowfi, barely any consciousness. A computer has more. A bee has more still. A human brain has vastly more. This is functionalist panychism. Consciousness is a quantity associated with information integration. It exists wherever integrated information exists. It's fundamental in the sense that it's a basic feature of the universe quantified by fi. IIT makes testable predictions about which systems are conscious and which aren't. It predicts that certain brain states will have consciousness highfi and others won't loi. It can be tested against neuroscience data. So far results are mixed. IIT makes some correct predictions about brain states and consciousness, but it also has counterintuitive implications. A grid of simple logic gates properly connected could have higher fi than a human brain. Does that make it more conscious? IIT says yes. This seems wrong, but I represents a serious attempt to make consciousness a fundamental physical quantity like energy or entropy. Not emergent from neural complexity, but intrinsic to information structure. If IIT or something like it is correct, then brains don't create consciousness. They organize information in ways that produce hi-fi states which are conscious by definition. Consciousness was there all along in lowfi forms waiting to be integrated.

Quantum theories of consciousness. Some physicists have proposed that consciousness involves quantum mechanics in an essential way. The most famous version Roger Penrose and Stuart Hamarof's orchestrated objective reduction orch Penrose a Nobel laureate in physics argues that consciousness cannot be purely computational. Girdle's theorem proves there are truths you can know but not compute. Consciousness involves non-computational processes. Penrose suggests quantum gravity causes wave function collapse in microtubules protein structures inside neurons. These quantum collapses are the moments of conscious experience. Consciousness is a sequence of quantum events in the brain. Most neuroscientists are skeptical. Microtubules are warm, wet, noisy environments. Quantum coherence. The delicate quantum superp positions needed for orcho are decoher in phentocs at biological temperatures. The brain is too hot and messy for quantum effects. Penrose and hammer argue that microtubules might protect quantum states longer than expected. Maybe, but there's no strong evidence for this. It's speculative.

But here's why I mention it. Penrose's argument, if correct, would mean consciousness is not just neural computation. It's a quantum gravitational phenomenon. Something that requires physics beyond what we currently understand. Something that connects consciousness to the deepest structure of spaceime. This would mean brains don't create consciousness by being complicated computers. Brains create conditions for quantum gravitational events that are consciousness. The brain is a facilitator, not a producer. Again, I'm skeptical of ORC O specifically, but the general point that consciousness might require physics we don't yet understand is worth considering. Maybe consciousness is tied to quantum measurement. Maybe it's tied to gravity. Maybe it's tied to something else entirely. If consciousness requires new physics, then current neuroscience, which assumes classical physics is sufficient, is missing something fundamental.

The combination problem pansychism has a severe problem. The combination problem. If elementary particles have protoconsciousness, how do these tiny proto experiences combine to form unified human consciousness? Why doesn't my consciousness feel like trillions of separate electron experiences? Why is it unified one stream of awareness, not many? This is analogous to the hard problem just in reverse. The hard problem asks, how do you get experience from non-experience? The combination problem asks how do you get unified experience from separate experiences? Nobody has a good answer. Philosophers have proposed various solutions. Maybe protoconcious elements merge into a higher level consciousness in the same way atoms combine into molecules. But this is vague and unsatisfying. Integrated information theory tries to answer this by making integration itself the key. FI measures how unified the information is. High-fi means high unity. But this is more a definition than an explanation. The combination problem is a serious challenge to pansychism, but it's not obviously worse than the emergence problem facing materialism. Both views struggle to explain how consciousness relates to its physical substrate.

The neural correlates are not proof. Let me return to the original claim. Brains don't create consciousness. The evidence against this claim seems overwhelming. Let me address it directly.

Objection one. Brain damage changes consciousness. Therefore, the brain creates consciousness. Response. Damage to a radio changes the music you hear. This doesn't prove the radio creates the music. It proves the radio receives and processes the music. Maybe the brain is more like a receiver than a generator. Maybe consciousness exists independently and the brain modulates it, filters it, gives it specific content and structure. This is not a proof. It's a logical possibility. The correlations between brain and consciousness are consistent with either causation. brain creates consciousness or modulation brain shapes pre-existing consciousness.

Objection two, anesthesia turns consciousness off. Therefore, brain chemistry creates consciousness. Response: Disrupting the receiver turns off the signal. This doesn't mean the receiver created the signal. Maybe anesthesia disrupts the brain's ability to receive or process consciousness, not the existence of consciousness itself. Again, not proof, just the observation that correlation doesn't determine direction of causation.

Objection three, we have detailed neural correlates of specific conscious experiences. We can predict conscious states from brain states with high accuracy. This proves the brain creates consciousness response. We also have detailed correlations between thermometer readings and temperature. We can predict temperature from thermometer states with perfect accuracy. This doesn't mean thermometers create temperature. They measure it. Neuralates tell us the brain is necessary for human consciousness. They don't tell us the brain is sufficient. They don't tell us the direction of explanation. I'm not saying the brain is receiver model is correct. I am saying the neural correlate data as rich and detailed as it is does not definitively prove brain creates consciousness. It's consistent with multiple interpretations.

Why this matters for physics? You might ask why does a physicist care about consciousness? This seems like neuroscience or philosophy, not physics. Here's why it matters. Quantum mechanics has an observer problem. Measurement collapses the wave function. But what counts as a measurement? When does collapse happen? What role does consciousness play? The Copenhagen interpretation vaguely suggests observation is special, but it doesn't define observer rigorously. John vonoman proposed that consciousness causes wave function collapse. The measurement chain photon hits atom. Atom hits detector. Detector triggers amplifier. Amplifier sends signal to brain. Continues until consciousness observes the result. That's when collapse happens. This gives consciousness a fundamental role in physics. Not just emerging from physics, but part of the mechanism of quantum mechanics. Most physicists hate this. It makes consciousness fundamental to physics in a way that seems mystical and unscientific. Decoherence and many worlds interpretations were developed partly to eliminate consciousness from quantum mechanics. But maybe Vonoyman was right. Maybe consciousness is where the quantum to classical transition happens. Maybe the observer problem and the hard problem are related. Maybe understanding consciousness requires understanding quantum measurement and vice versa. If consciousness is fundamental, if it's not produced by brains, but is a basic feature of reality that brains interact with and physics needs to include it, not as an emergent property as a primitive element of the theory. This would be a revolution in physics as profound as quantum mechanics or relativity.

what information theory suggests. There's another angle on this from information theory and computation. Computation is substrate independent. The same computation can run on silicon, on neurons, on water pipes, on anything that can implement the right logical operations. If consciousness is computational, if it's just information processing of a certain kind, then it should be substrate independent, too. But consciousness doesn't feel substrate independent. It feels like it depends critically on being in a biological brain. Uploading your consciousness to a computer, transferring the computational process to a different substrate might not preserve consciousness. The computation might be identical, but the consciousness might be gone. Why would this be? If consciousness is just computation, why would the substrate matter if only the logical structure matters for computation? One answer, consciousness is not computational. It's tied to the specific physical properties of neurons, maybe quantum properties, maybe some other physical properties we don't understand. The computation captures the functional behavior but misses the consciousness. If this is true, then consciousness is not an algorithm. It's not software running on hardware. It's something about the hardware itself. Something physical but not reducible to function. And if consciousness is tied to specific physical properties, not to computational structure, then it's something beyond information processing, something that current physics doesn't capture.

The limits of reductive explanation. Let me step back and address the broader question. Why might reductive materialism fail for consciousness? Reductive materialism says everything is made of matter obeying physical laws. Complex systems are just arrangements of simple components. Understanding the components and their interactions gives you everything. This works brilliantly for almost everything. Chemistry reduces to physics. Biology reduces to chemistry. Neuroscience reduces to biology. The reductive program has been spectacularly successful. But consciousness might be the exception, not because it's supernatural, but because it has intrinsic first person ontology that cannot be captured by third person description. Thomas Nagel argued this in his famous paper, what is it like to be a bat? You can know everything about bat neuroscience, bat behavior, bat echolocation, but you still won't know what it's like to be a bat. The first person experience is not captured by third person facts. This suggests an explanatory gap. Third person science gives you structure, function, behavior. It doesn't give you first person experience. Maybe it can't in principle. If this is right, then consciousness is not reducible to brain function. Not because brains don't matter, but because reduction of first person to third person is impossible. You need a different kind of explanation. One that includes subjective experience as a primitive element, not a derived one. This doesn't mean giving up on science. It means expanding science to include first person phenomena in a rigorous way. This is hard. We don't know how to do it. But that doesn't mean it's impossible.

What I actually believe, let me be honest about my own position because I don't want to overstate the case. I don't know whether brains create consciousness. I don't know whether pansychism is true. I don't know whether consciousness is fundamental or emergent or something else entirely. What I know consciousness exists. You experience it directly. I experience it directly. This is the most certain thing either of us knows. What I know, consciousness correlates with brain activity. Every conscious state corresponds to a brain state. Changing the brain changes consciousness. This correlation is overwhelming. What I don't know what the nature of the correlation is. Does the brain cause consciousness? Does consciousness cause brain states? Do both arise from some deeper substrate? Is there a mutual constraint, a correlation without direct causation? What I suspect the standard neuroscience story that brains create consciousness through sufficiently complex information processing is incomplete. Not wrong, but missing something. Maybe missing something profound. What I'm open to the possibility that consciousness is more fundamental than we've assumed. That it's a basic feature of reality like space or time or energy. That brains don't create it but shape it, focus it, give it specific content. What I'm skeptical of claims to have solved the hard problem. Nobody has solved it. Not neuroscience, not philosophy, not physics. Anyone who tells you they've explained how consciousness arises from matters overconfident. What I think we need humility, openness to radical possibilities, willingness to question deep assumptions, and continued rigorous investigation, both empirical and theoretical.

The evolutionary objection. Here's an objection I need to address. Evolution consciousness evolved. It emerged gradually over evolutionary time. Simple organisms, bacteria, plants probably aren't conscious. Mammals probably are. Humans definitely are. Consciousness arose through natural selection acting on brain complexity. This seems to support brain creates consciousness. Evolution didn't create protoconsciousness in particles. It created brains and consciousness came along. But the pansychist has a response. Evolution didn't create consciousness. It created conditions for protoconsciousness to become integrated and amplified. The elementary protoconsciousness was always there. Brains gave its structure and content and unity. This is like saying evolution didn't create atoms. It created organisms made of atoms. Atoms were always there. Evolution just arranged them in interesting ways. Similarly, maybe consciousness was always there and evolution just organized it. I'm not saying this is right. I'm saying the evolutionary argument doesn't decisively favor emergence over fundamentality. Both interpretations are consistent with the evolutionary timeline.

Why certainty is impossible? Let me tell you why we cannot be certain about consciousness even in principle. The problem you only have direct access to your own consciousness. Everyone else's consciousness is inferred. You assume other people are conscious because they behave like you and report experiences like yours. But you can never directly verify this. This is the problem of other minds. It's unfalsifiable. You cannot prove other people are conscious. You cannot prove they're not zombies beings that behave exactly like conscious beings but have no inner experience. Now extend this to animals. Dogs seem to have experiences. But do they? Insects, plants, bacteria. At what point does consciousness appear extended to artificial systems? If we build an AI that behaves exactly like a conscious human, reports, experiences, passes every touring test, is it conscious? How would we know? We can't. Consciousness is directly accessible only from the inside. From the outside, all we observe is behavior and neural correlates. We cannot observe subjective experience itself. This means the question what creates consciousness might not be answerable empirically. We can correlate brain states with reported experiences. We can understand neural mechanisms but we cannot directly observe the consciousness those mechanisms supposedly produce. The hard problem might be hard because it's not a scientific question. Not because science isn't powerful, but because consciousness is not the kind of thing that can be observed from the outside. If this is right, then the brain creates consciousness hypothesis is not testable. Neither is the consciousness's fundamental hypothesis. Both are metaphysical interpretations of the same observable data. And that means we might never know.

Conclusion. Let me tell you what 50 years of physics has taught me about consciousness. Physics describes the objective world, matter, energy, spacetime, fields. It's third person. It's about measurable quantities, mathematical structures, predictable patterns. Consciousness is first person. It's subjective experience. It's what it's like to be you. And physics as currently formulated has nothing to say about this. The assumption that brains create consciousness that subjective experience emerges from objective neural processes is exactly that, an assumption, a reasonable assumption given the correlations, but not a proven fact. The alternative that consciousness is fundamental, that brains modulate rather than create it, that subjective experience is a basic feature of reality sounds crazy. But it's not obviously crazier than emergence. And it might be right. I don't know which view is correct. Nobody does. The hard problem remains hard. The explanatory gap remains unbridged. Our understanding of consciousness is primitive compared to our understanding of atoms or stars or black holes.

What I'm certain of, consciousness is real. It exists. You experience it. And understanding it, really understanding it will require uh either a profound extension of current science or a completely new kind of science. one that includes firstperson experience as a fundamental element, not an emergent property. Until we have that, claims that brains create consciousness are premature. We know brains are necessary. We don't know they're sufficient. We know correlation. We don't know causation. We know the neural mechanisms. We don't know the nature of the mindb brain relationship. This is not a council of despair. It's a call for humility and continued investigation. The hard problem is hard, but hard problems have solutions. We just haven't found this one yet. And finding it might require admitting that some of our deepest assumptions about the nature of reality are wrong, including the assumption that your brain creates consciousness.