Where There Is Power Where There Is Unity - Jamie Winship

So, uh, so yeah, we live. So people have been asking me, they thought we lived in Portland, but that place was just so exciting, um, that we moved to, uh, Seattle. No, I love Portland. Portland's nice. Um, so we, we, we're in Seattle now, and we've been doing this really interesting project there for the last, really, the 12 months has really been exciting. Um, interesting.

And so I, Donna, my wife, called me today and she's like, she said, "You know, how's it going?" She said, "I got, I got two tickets." This is kind, this is what you want your wife to call you and tell you is this kind of thing. Like, "I got two tickets." "For what?" And she said, "Well, I got two." "In the same day?" Like, "Beautiful. Good. Are you done? Are we going to keep going? You know, or like, what time is it?" And, um, but they were, you know, one was a parking ticket. And she said, "I got, this is, and this is Seattle. This is Seattle all the way." She said, "I got a parking ticket." I said, "For what?" And she said, "For parking at an unmarked crossing." That's an interesting ticket, isn't it? Parking at a crossing that you can't see to know that it's a crossing, which you wouldn't park at if you could see it, but since you can't see it, you're not allowed to park there. Um, and so I said, "Do you understand that phrase, parking at an unmarked crosswalk?" And, and then she goes, "No." And I said, "This is a dumb question. Did you see the crosswalk?" She said, "No, it was unmarked. That's what it says on the ticket." I said, "How much is it?" And she said, "Oh, that's marked. That's marked. That's $48." I said, "Where?" I asked, "Was there anyone crossing there?" And she said, "No one knows that you can cross there because it's unmarked." Anyway, she, so she wants to go to court for what? What are we gonna argue? That it wasn't marked. That's what the ticket's for.

Anyway, so then she got, then she got a ticket for putting the wrong trash in the wrong container. This is another big, yeah, it's a big offense. I mean, Seattle has problems, but their biggest one, besides women, Jewish women who park in unmarked, that thing, they put trash in the wrong, park in the wrong trash can. So, she got a ticket and I'm like, "How, how do you know which trash can to put in?" She says, "I don't know. Our trash cans are unmarked." And I'm like, "Okay, all right. Never, doesn't matter." Like, never mind. Doesn't really matter. So, we're in love in Seattle so far.

Um, but in Seattle, so one of the things in Seattle that we're working on is, um, just like the, uh, tension, the tension between different groups in the city, you know, which is really everywhere. And this whole topic that's really been on my mind and we're trying to work with it is this issue of separateness. Like, why? Like, what would it take for us to be unified about anything? Any, anything? I mean, we separate on every issue, just as people. And it's like a culture now that separateness is somehow smart. And so, I, like, that's been troubling me and I've been trying to think about how do we address this and, and how do we look at it from scripture and that sort of thing. And so I thought, well, kind of where does it begin? Where does it begin in scripture? So we have, you know, Adam and Eve starts there and, you know, the Eve, Eve in the garden and Eve, you know, how we say Eve fell. Eve didn't fall. There's no scripture like, "And then Eve fell down." There's no, she doesn't fall anywhere. That's sort of an invented idea that has to do with morality, like she somehow morally fell. That isn't what she did at all. Um, what she does is separates from God. She separates. That's sin. The word sin means to separate. It doesn't mean that you're committing some moral failure. It means to, to separate, to miss the mark, to see how far you're separate from the bullseye of who you're supposed to be. That's sin. That's what it is.

And so when you think about sin like that, then you think of a verse like, "The wages for the, for the wages of sin is death," which my mom used to recite to us often. What a verse to say to your kids at night. "Remember, the wages of sin is death. Remember the other part of that verse?" That's like, "Don't park in the unmarked parking space." Down to the wages of sin is death. Good night. And then, but when you read that verse with the idea of sin not being what my mom thinks me and my brother do at night when she closes the door, not that, but the, but separation. The w, this is what it means. The wages of separation, the cost of separation is eternal separation. Like, that makes sense. But the gift of God is eternal aliveness in Jesus who reconciles, who brings together all things. Like, that's different. "The wages of sin is death." But the gift of God is, you get to go to heaven unless you have too many wages of sin. Like, that kind of, like, but what about just don't separate from God? Like, if you separate from God, you're going to go down the drain because the separateness will kill you, not what happens as a result of it.

So, I was thinking about that. So, there's Adam and Eve and that thing, but where you really first see it is Cain and Abel. Like, I thought that's where it is. It's Cain and Abel. So, I was thinking about Cain and Abel. And I don't like that. Do you like the Cain and Abel story? I don't like that story. Like, it doesn't seem fair. So, Cain, does anyone who's older, like, does anyone remember that magazine? I don't know if it still comes out. That magazine, Highlights, that kids magazine. You know that? Yeah. Do you? I've never heard of it, but, um, I've never. No. So, we used to read it in the dentist office. Did you ever, like, so I associate it with hell, basically, the magazine, but early memory, Highlights, cavities, you know, which is the wages of sin, by the way. See how that all, so, but in the, so because we lived in a low-income area, housing, we went to a dentist. I'm not sure that's what was his main job. You know, when you're there, it's like, I think he had, I think this was for a sideline. Um, anyway, but he'd had these magazines in there, and you remember in those magazines, they had those little cartoons of those two brothers? Do you remember that? Do you remember their names? Those two little boys.

>> Yeah. Wow. You have no life, do you? You know that. Wow. Like, how the enthusiasm. Goofus and I miss them. No. Goofus and Gallant. Right. Exactly. And so, you, and so that was one of the highlights, um, is Goofus and Gallant, which is a comparison between a good kid and a bad kid, which we need. Um, because my brother was definitely Gallant. But so here's how, here's the kind of things. This is an actual little Goofus and Gallant cartoon. You know which one's the good guy, right? Gallant. Yeah, just so, okay. It's kind of complicated. So, [snorts] it's here's Goofus. This is Goofus. He's, I'm not kidding. This is like what we were looking at as little kids waiting to be tortured. You, he's Goofus is holding a frog by the leg and he's saying, [laughter] "Oh my gosh, you should see how far it jumps when I poke it." [laughter] Like, I don't know how much worse this kid can be. This is a sign of something to come. But here's what Gallant does. He has a turtle. He, this is what Gallant says. "Mr. Turtle may be killed if I don't help him out of the road." See, Goofus just wants to prod some helpless frog for his own pleasure. But Gallant moves a turtle out of the road. Goofus. Goofus interrupts his mother when she is talking with a friend. Goofus. Gallant waits until his mother is done talking about the wages of sin. So, like, do you think of Cain and Abel like Goofus and Gallant? Like, that's sometimes how they're presented. Like, there's Abel who helps Mr. Turtle out of the road, and then there's, you know, Cain, the mark of Cain. Cain, like something's bad about, you know, Cain is like, Kane, like that. Like he's Goofus. But fortunately, they've updated this magazine. Did you know that? And here, this is the mo, this is the millennial Goofus and Gallant. I'm not kidding. Yeah, people are groaning. Why? This is creativity at its highest level. Let's update Goofus and Gallant. There's a career. Um, so Goofus live-tweets his commute while driving. [laughter] Gallant uses Waze to beat traffic. Wait, I don't even know what that means. Goofus drinks three daily Starbucks triples extrah caramel brulee lattes. Straight to hell. That is it. You're going. Gallant, who's from Portland, [laughter] brews his coffee in a French press every morning with fair trade coffee. Jesus loves him. Goofus doesn't bother to understand his online audiences and what they want from him. How dare you? Gallant identifies the audience he wants to reach and gives them what they want. He also covers his nose when he sneezes. [laughter] I'm not kidding. What does that have to do with etiquette on the internet? And then lastly, um, Goofus tweets and tweets and just won't ever shut up. I'm not even going to say what that. I would just say a career in politics potentially right here. Gallant creates dialogue by asking questions and listening to responses. So there you have it, the Millennial Goofus and Gallant. So when you think of Cain and Abel, is like that how you think about them? Like a good guy, bad guy? Like one's a good guy and one's a bad guy?

So, you know the story. So they, these two brothers. Well, I'll read it to you. Why not? Goofus would just tell you this. A Gallant would read it. Genesis. Now Adam, listen to this. Now, listen. Now, Adam knew his wife Eve, uh, knew in the Old Testament Torah sense, his wife Eve, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, listen what she says about Cain. "With God's help, I have been given a man." She doesn't, it's not the idea that she's having a baby and is going to raise a baby. It's the idea that she has given birth to a man. It's a really interesting idea. A full identity, like this is a full identity. This is a person. This is another, like Adam, a man. It's an interesting perspective on, you're raising a man. You're not coddling a baby. Like that kind of idea. Um, and again, she bore his brother Abel. Now, Abel was a keeper of the sheep, and Cain a worker of the ground. In the course of time, Cain brought to the Lord an offering of fruit from the ground, fruit of the ground. And also Abel brought of the firstborn of his flock and their fat portions. So, there they are. They're the same. And, and so, you know, if you know this passage and you, you've heard this passage taught and everything, it's like they're trying to figure out like, why did God not regard Cain's offering that he brought? Well, so if you're looking at him, you have a guy that's a vegan, basically. So, a guy from Portland that's bringing something to God, and a person from Michigan that's bringing something to God. And they're different. And so, this Cain is a tiller of the ground. It calls him a, a tiller of the soil. And Abel is a tender of sheep. Now, you can read all kinds of stuff into that if you want, but we could say that what Cain is doing is pretty solitary, and what Abel is doing has the idea of relational, like he's overseeing the care of animals. But even then, it's like, yeah, but so what, you know? So, they bring their thing, they bring their sacrifices, their offerings to God. And, and Cain brings vegetables and fruits, and, and Abel brings the first, the, the, the fat portions of what he's doing, the very, the best part. There's a difference. Cain kind of brings what he has, and Abel brings the very best of what he has. Maybe could be it. Maybe. I don't know, though. Like, because when I think of Jesus, remember Jesus in the Gospels, and he's, he's always doing this to the disciples. He's like, "Watch that person, pray. Watch that person pray. Who's a better prayer?" You know how he does that to people? Like, who's praying better? This guy or this guy? Who? Who? Who? Who? Who? And the disciples, they, they fall for that every time. Like, after one time, I'd go with the underdog. Go with the underdog. Like, I would be saying that, like, he's always with the underdog. Pick the underdog. Like, how many times do you pick the rich guy? I was like, wrong. Like, steer away from the rich, go to the poor. You're going to be probably okay with Jesus's quizzical questions. But they, anyway, but, you know, they're like the rich guy. No. So he's like, "Who's praying better? This person that stands up, you know, and does the, like, the amazing prayer, like, wow, that was, that was really a good prayer." And, or this person that does this old, you know, "Help me, a sinner," you know, that thing. Like, who's better? One's sort of the fat portions, and one's just vegetables. And then he goes, "No, that guy. Why this guy?" Because he's praying with his whole heart. This person's just putting on a show. Or the, you know, who gives the most? That guy dumping all his money in there, or that lady that gives, you know, the widow's mite? And they, like, we don't even know what that is, but has widow in front of, has got to be a little small, whatever is mite is, little, like, less. And, and then they're like, you know, that guy? No. Why? Because she's giving from all that she has. She's given out of sacrifice. They're just giving out of plenty. So, it's more like that idea between Cain and Abel. It's like, who's giving? It's not what they're giving. That's not, it can't be right. Not what they're giving. And people like, "Well, he's giving the, you know, Abel's giving the idea of Jesus coming in the typology of Christ." Like, really? You think that's what Abel's doing? And Cain's like, "I brought carrots." "What'd you bring?" "The typoly of the f, the typology of the future Jesus in symbolic metaphor, metaphoric form." And Cain's there with a carrot. You, he's like, "Oh, I doubt if that's what happened." And if it is, you know why Cain doesn't like Abel? You know, it's like, "Oh, brother, here we go." I don't think that's it. I, I, I think it's something different.

So, how, how do we know? So, if we look at this text here, um, it, because here's what it says. "And Abel brought the firstborn of the flock and the fat portions. And the Lord had regard." It says, "had regard." But listen, "for Abel and his offering. Not his offering, Abel and his offering, but for Cain and his offering." The Lord had no regard or no respect, or the word actually there is, he doesn't see it. That's what it means. It's not like, "I disrespect that." That's not, it's like, "What? You didn't bring anything." That's almost like what God's saying to Cain. "You didn't bring anything." What? "You didn't bring anything." It's not like you tried to bring me something and I don't like it because I don't like vegetables, but it's like he didn't see it. It's like, "Did you bring anything? Did you even show up?" I mean, I know you're standing there, but actually, you didn't even show up. Did you? Is that, is this the real Cain? Who is this? I think that's what's happening there.

So, like, when, when we were working in the Middle East, a lot of times we just were given teams, you know, or we just joined teams or it depends on who we were working for and how we were doing. But once, one time we were actually allowed to interview people that would be potentially working with us in the scenario that we were going to work in the Middle East on this one, in this one year, turned out to be many years, but the beginning part of it. And so I didn't get to actually pick the people, but I got to interview the people that were being considered. So I thought, well, that'll be exciting. Um, because I happened to just be the senior person, which means nothing, trust me, except you're older than everybody else. That's what it actually means. "Are you the senior person?" "Yes, you're older." Wow. Right. Yeah. Um, [snorts] doesn't mean you're smarter. But so they come in. So I'm looking at their resumes and they're like, pretty impressive resumes. So, the first guy comes in and his resume, I'm looking at his resume and he has two master's degrees. One in ancient languages and one in, um, something like global leadership. Uh, whatever that, I don't know what that is. You lead globes around? I don't know what is that. But, and so I'm looking at, but it's an impressive, like he's, you know, cum laude and all that stuff. And I'm like, "Wow, this guy's going to be good." He comes in. We're talking. He's young. He's about, probably 15 years younger than me. And, um, he's sitting there and I said, "So, you've got some pretty decent experience. Like, so we're going into the scenario. You know the scenario we're going into. We're going to be there kind of over 12 months. I need to know like, what you're, what are you thinking in terms of strategy for how you see yourself working out this role?" He, this is what he says. He says, "Well, what I'm going to, what I'm thinking about is getting a van." Like, already I'm like, "Where'd you go to school now again?" "Princeton." "Is that where you went?" "Yeah." "And this is, you're, you're okay. All right. Go ahead. You're going to buy a van there in the Middle East?" "Yeah." He goes, "I'm going to fill it with lawn chairs." Like, "Okay." And I'm going to drive it around at night in the desert. Okay. Doesn't this sound like something on Saturday Night Live that you've heard before? Like, yeah, I'm going to drive and, and I'm gonna, at different locations at different times, I'm going to stop the van, unpack the lawn chairs, put them in a circle, and wait to see who shows up in the desert." I was like, "Okay, we're going to lose if you're on our team. We're going to lose. We're not going to win. That strategy is not going to win. That's a terrible, that strategy doesn't even make any sense at all, but I'm going to say it back to you so you hear me say it. You're going to get there. You're going to buy a van, fill it with lawn chairs." He goes, "Well, it could be chase lounges. Whatever. Some recline, some don't. I don't think that matters to the plan, does it? Because you're going to be there at night. Right. You're going to drive around. Yeah. Change locations. Yeah. So that, so that you can't be discovered by patrols. I get that part. And you're going to set up the chairs and see who comes." "Yeah." And he goes, "Oh, oh, oh, oh. And when they come, I'm, we're going to, I'm going to teach them how to hear from God." Oh, good. Okay. Now I get it. And that's your plan. "That's my plan." Okay. All right. That's not going to work. Okay. Good. So that's what he's offering to God. I mean, carrots looks better than that offering right there. Like that. What is that?

The next person comes in, this young woman, it's actually her and her husband. She comes in first. She introduces herself. Um, I'm looking at her bio. She's from down south and, and she's looking at me and, um, we, I start to talk to her and she's very southern, you know, and, um, and we're, I'm, I'm just like, "Okay, so you know what we're doing? And we're working in this region. Um, so far we have one guy that's going to drive a van around and I, I don't know what he's going to do exactly, but so I'm just curious what you're thinking about." This is what she says to me. "I am not kidding. I'm going to bring all these people for you to meet one day." This is what she says to me. "Are you looking at my eye?" And I said, "What?" She goes, "This eye? Are you looking at this eye?" Well, she had a wandering eye. I was not going to say anything about it. That's what she said to me. [laughter] She goes, "I have a wandering eye." I was like, "Well, I don't know which one it is, but no, I, I wasn't going to talk about it." No. And she goes, she goes, "Because people stare at my eye and it freaks them out." And I'm like, "And next? Who's next on our? I didn't even get to her plan." Like, that's what she said. "I'm not your husband here yet. Can I talk to him now?" I knew it'd freak you out. Like, it's not your eye, trust me. [snorts]

Um, and then the third person comes in. So, we, we actually had a team of eight, but I'm only, I'll stop at number three because it just gets worse. But the third one comes in, graduated number one from an engineering university, number one full scholarship. I'm like, "Finally, a woman engineer, like a reasonable person, probably thought this out more than a van and eye problems." You know that. But, and so this woman comes in, young woman, 23 years old. She sits down and I start talking to her and she has a British accent. I'm like, "Oh, are you British?" "No." "You're not British?" "No." "Do you know you have a British accent, though?" Right. And she's like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Your mom's British?" "Nope." "My mom's born and raised in Tennessee." "Your dad?" "My dad died when I was young. I don't, I never met him." "Okay. Did you grow up in a British community somewhere?" "No. Trailer park in Tennessee." "And you have a British accent?" "Yes." "Why?" "I don't like the Tennessee accent." "Oh, okay. I got you. Okay, I got it. How long have you been speaking with a British accent?" "My whole, my entire life." And she has this beautiful British accent. And I'm like, "What are you going to do? What are you going to do in the Middle East?" And she said, "Well, I'm kind of a gypsy person. I'm going to wander around." "Okay, perfect. I have a, if you need a ride in a van, we have a guy. He'll be going out at night, though. I don't know if you want to go in the day or the night, but you don't even need a chair. He's got the chairs." And she says, "Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I'm going to, I'm going to get inside the Islamic community. Um, and I'm going to contextualize and I'm going to learn an Arabic accent. And I'm like, well, you're, you're obviously skilled, you know, uh, and I'm going to figure out how to just get deep in that culture and I'll make contact with you when I'm ready." And I'm like, "Oh." And she goes, "Don't worry, I'll make contact with you. I'm not worried. You might not be able to find me. You know, I don't know." Um, anyway, that's the top, those were the top three. All of those three are bringing their sacrifices to God, their offerings to God. That's what they're doing. And I'm telling you, they are worthless as far as I'm concerned. That's, I was like, "We're not going to win this thing." How, how is God going to? Is there anywhere in the Bible where God searches around and picks a loser? Yeah. Darn it. It's the whole Bible. Shoot. I mean, the worst thing you could say to God is, "My, I freak you out." And he's like, "Yep, and you're on the team. Yes. I was praying for a person like you." If you ever, I'm telling you, the worst thing you can do to God, to God tonight is tell him something's wrong with you because you're automatically on the team. You know who's not on his team? People where there's nothing wrong with them. They're not on his team. It's the people with something wrong with them. I mean, I, so, like, so we, that was our team. We went with that team. Um, wasn't a big line of other candidates, um, for this position. And so, we go like with them. I, [snorts] mean, I had a, I had a really good plan personally. Like, I'm super experienced and stuff. I know a better plan. Like, and I told them my plan and they were like, "That's kind of bor, your plan's boring. Like, anyone can think of that plan. Did you ever think about driving a van?" "No, I didn't. No, I've never, never occurred to me." "Like, well, we're cutting edge." "No, you're nuts is what you are." But so, so like my sacrifice is really good, I think. But there's a difference between my offering in this program and theirs. Here's the difference. Mine is separate from God. Mine's all in my own. I figured it out. I know what to do. Theirs are these crazy. So, so look what happens. So, Cain brings this thing and God's like, "What is it? I don't, what did you bring anything?" Like, like when I bring my plan to him about what we're going to do in the Middle East, he's like, "Okay, that Jamie, that guy brought a van and lawn chairs. She's brought her vision, this, and her, she has really wide vision. This person, she sees way more than you do, Jamie. [laughter] This, this girl can, will doesn't let an environment dictate her wife, she becomes whatever she feels like becoming. You know, you live in a trailer park in Tennessee. Do I? You know, it's like, okay, well, all right. Um, but my plan, their plan, if God's not in this plan, it's not going to work. God doesn't even have to show up for my plan because I got it figured out. I, they're, they're leaders. I'm a manager. That's all I'm doing. I'm status quoing it. We've done the research. We know the statistics. This works. This stuff." So, Cain comes and he brings it. And so it says, "And, and, and but for Cain and his offering, God had no regard." So, Cain was angry. I mean, like, I would be like, "My plan is a good plan. It's not these goofy plans. My plan is a good plan." And so when my plan doesn't work, I'm, it makes me mad. But here's the thing about anger. There's a thing about anger. Anger is a secondary emotion. Anger means that there's another negative emotion before the anger. That's what it means. So if you're mad about something, it's because some other thing happened before the anger which produced in you fear, guilt, or shame that results in anger. But to get to that, you have to open yourself up and join with God to figure that out. And so that anger that Cain feels, it's the anger is just reflecting something deeper in his heart. So God comes to him. God comes to him. God, Cain can hear from God. God doesn't come to Abel. God comes to Cain. He comes to sit down and have a conversation with Cain. Why? Because Cain is in trouble. God's not going to forsake Cain. God's not mad at Cain. He's saying to Cain, like, "Did you bring me anything?" And Cain's like, "That." And God's like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not that. That's nothing. That's not you. That's nothing. Did you bring me something from you? You, you, the real you. Did you bring something from up and out of your true identity that I died on the cross to redeem that identity? Did you bring that or are you just winging this thing out of some false fake you, like some kind of cliche person? Are you, is that what you're doing? Look, because I can't see that because I didn't make that and I didn't make you like this and I don't see this false you. Like, where's the real? What are you mad about? Like, let's fix this. What are you mad about?" That's what the Lord asks him. "Why are you angry?" That's emotion number one. I mean, that's the presenting emotion. But underneath that is discouragement and depression which is producing anger. He says, "Why are you angry? Why has your face fallen? What are you discouraged about?" Discouragement, despair, failure produce anger, result in anger. The idea that I'm ceasing to exist causes me to re, to rise up into anger and to hurt somebody. That's what people do when they're not, when they're starting to not exist anymore. When a person is, is ceasing to exist because they're separated out and they start to vanish and no one sees them anymore, they walk around. No one sees, we don't see you anymore. You're not important anymore. We don't see you. What they will do, what a particle does when it's taken out of the relationship with another particle in, in the quantum level. If you have two particles in the very granular part of reality, in, in quantum physics, if you take two particles and you separate them, both particles vanish. They cease to exist because they can't exist separate from another particle. They can't re, exist outside of relationship. And what they will do, they vanish. And, and scientists don't know where they're going to come back, but they know they'll come back. And the way they'll come back is they'll crash into another particle to give themselves life again in existence. So, what happens to a teenager when they start to cease to exist? When the relationships fall apart and they start and they're being separated and separated and that's separated and that's separated and we don't want you in our school and we don't want you in our house and they start to separate and separate. They begin to cease to exist. And what will they do? They will either vanish or they will crash back into other people to say, "I am here." And if I have to kill you to get you to pay attention to me, I will do it because it's better than ceasing to exist. And we don't know what to do with this. You know why we don't? Because we are separate here. We are, we, we have become separate. Cain, when he comes to God, he's already separate from God. Even though he's going to do this religious thing, he's coming in separateness. And he's coming to God. And God's like, "NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. DON'T. NO. YOU ARE NEVER SEPARATE FROM ME." God, this is what God says. "I will never leave you or for, I will never leave you nor forsake you." Never. Never. Never. God is omnipresent. He loves you. He loved you before you loved him. While we were his enemy, he died for us. He was reconciling us to himself. While we were trying to remain separate from him, he has never gone away from us. Never. But we go away from him. And you can't really get away from God. If God is right here, because God is reality itself, "I'm not going to talk to you anymore. I'm going over here where you don't exist." "Oh, you're here too. Where are you going to go?" "I'm going to separate myself from God." "Where? Where are you going to go?" David says, "If I go to hell, he's still there. Where am I going to go?" You can't go anywhere from the love of God. You cannot go anywhere from the love of God. The only thing you can do is in your mind separate yourself from God in your own deception. And he's still right there. But in your mind, "No, I'm separating. I'm separating. I'm separating." And when you start separating in your mind, you have to separate from yourself. And you separate from yourself. When you separate from yourself, you start to stop existing. And then you will start doing things to try and give yourself existence. I got to feel something. And you'll start doing the things that destroy you to gain existence again. And that's called sin. And you just keep going farther and farther and farther away. Like Jonah, "I'm leaving God. I'm getting on a boat. I'm going out into the water where Hebrews believed is the only place God couldn't go." And I'm going to go under the water where God can't go. But guess what? Yes, he can. And he has fish down there. And he's going to come get you. Why? Because he will never leave you nor forsake you. He won't. If you're sitting here tonight and you think you're separate from God, the only place you're separate from him is right inside your mind. He is right there. He is right with you. And here's what you have to do to meet him. "Hi." He's like, "Hi. Where'd you come from?" "I've been here the whole time. In your mother's womb. I was doing this with you. I've always been here. Why did you separate from me? Why are you so downcast? And why is the stuff you're doing in life stuff that has absolutely no regard for anything else and it's not even valuable? Why? Why are you downcast? Why are you downcast?" Imagine a quiet time. You're having a quiet. You're not even having a quiet time. You're mad at God. I'm going over here and I'm sitting here and God shows up. And you're, "I'm not talking to you, God." Quiet time. He shows up and he goes, "What's the matter? What's the matter, Cain? What's the matter? Why are you angry? Why is your face fallen?" And God's like, "Here's how we can correct this. Here's what we do. Here's what you need to do." "Go to church?" "No." "Memorize?" "No. No. No. No." "Share your faith?" "No. No. No. No." "Here's what you have to do to fix this whole thing. Do what's right. Do the, do what's right." What that means there is do what's upright in your true identity. Do what's right from who you really are. Do that. Don't do this false separate nonsense lie accusation. No. Come back into your true identity. Stand upright in your true identity AND DO WHAT YOUR IDENTITY DOES. AND IF YOU WILL DO THAT, everything will be, it'll be fine. Like, that's how easy it is. You could do it tonight. I don't care how far over here you've gone. It, here's how fast you can come back. You know why? Cuz he's right there with you. You've walked way, I'm walking way over here. Uh oh, there you are. He's right there. Why? Why? No. Do what's right. Who be what I made you to be. Stand upright in who you really are. Stand upright and don't worry about what people think. Don't worry about what people think. Don't worry about the world. Do who you really are and everything will be all right with you. Jesus says it like this, "Seek first the kingdom and everything will be fine with you." Why are you so discouraged all the time? Why are you mad? Be who you're supposed to be. That's all. That's it. And go and be alive and free. Go and I will be with you. I have always been with you. Let's go. But he says, "But separateness is crouching at your door." That's what he says. Sin, separateness is crouching right there with you. This idea of making yourself separate. It's crouching at the door. It's waiting to take you away. Separateness, the idea of separateness is waiting to take you away. "No one wants you. Nobody cares about you." It's waiting to take YOU AWAY. YOU MUST MASTER IT. IT'S NOT MAGIC. YOU MUST SAY, "I WILL NOT BE SEPARATE. I will not be separate. I will stand upright in my identity with Jesus. I will stand upright with you. AND I WILL NOT BE SEPARATE." And if you will do that, everything will be fine with you. Because if you're upright, you're reconciled here in your own heart. Reconciled here. You will be reconciled out here. I promise you. That's the beauty of the kingdom. I'm in. You've always been in. I want you. I've always been here. Let's go. It'll be fine. It'll be well with you.

And here's what Cain says. "No." No. He says, "No." Why? No. I love this miserable, depressed life. I love it. I'm going to walk. No, I'm going to. No. Why? I'm going to remain separate. Wow. There's your options. That's not a very complicated choice. Unified, reconciled, unity with God and others. Yes or no? And because he says no, he breaks his relationship. He won't be with God. Nope. I'm going to be over here and I'm going to live my own happy life apart from you. Where's my brother? And he kills him. That's the happy life. The free life.

This, I was with these men over the weekend last weekend and one of them came up to me and he said, "I'm not a Christian." I'm like, "Okay, neither was Jesus." He's like, "Oh, I didn't know that." Yeah, he wasn't. Anyway, never mind. Keep going. He goes, "And I'm not a believer. I don't think I'm a believer." "You don't believe in anything?" "No, I'm pretty sure I don't." "Okay. But I want to be a believer." "Okay. But I don't know what a believer is." "Okay." He goes, "Can you explain to me what it is to believe in something?" And I said, "I believe I can." There you go. That was it. No. And I just said to him, you know, when I was a little kid, I believed in Santa Claus. I loved Santa Claus. My dad did everything to convince us about Santa Claus and we, I loved it. And, and then one night my brother, my older brother through, uh, uh, apologetics and polemics, he disproved Santa Claus very logically, very, very methodically. The lie of Santa, or disproving it through apologetics and polemics while I was laying in bed at night and he destroyed the Santa Claus lie. This is what I was telling this guy. He's like, "Wow, I just wanted to talk about belief." I'm like, "Don't stop. I'm in the story. Hold on." And I'm laying in bed, third grade, and I realize I've been deceived. He goes, "It's been Dad the whole time." "Couldn't you tell when you were talking to Santa on the phone, it was Dad?" Like, people sound alike on the phone. "I want to believe. I want to believe." And so, he disproved it. And then I realized, no, it's right. I'm, it's not true. How do you think I felt? Yay! I'm free of the lie of Santa Claus. I'm liberated. I was, Christmas sucks. That's how I felt. Like, you stole. I don't feel good that I'm a Santa atheist now. I don't, I'm sort of an agnostic. No, I'm an atheist when it comes to Santa. I've, like, "Yeah, but you haven't been to the North Pole." "I don't care. I'm an atheist." Like that. But, but losing my belief didn't make me happy. It made me sad. It made my face downcast. And Christmas was never the same. I said, "Believe. Believe is what we all have to have. We need it. Its beauty to us. But believe what's true and don't believe what's false. That's the challenge."

This is what it says about Abel, "By faith." Here's the difference. Here's Cain coming up to God with this thing. And I'm mad at you, by the way. That's it. That's like sharing your faith because you have to. That's like telling someone about Jesus as a weapon to hurt them. That's what that is. Using Christianity to separate people, saying, "You know what? I'm better than you because I know Jesus." That's, that's what Cain is doing. And God's like, "Boy, I don't see this. I'm not a part of this. You're using the kingdom to separate people. Don't do that. Speak from your true identity. Do that. Do that." And so, here's what it says about Abel, "By faith." Abel. Faith. Faith is the substance of things we hope for. It's the evidence of things we can't see yet. It's that belief. It's that beauty. That, "Wow, what could happen? What could happen if I was unified in myself and with God and with other people? What if I walked in reconciliation with people in my neighborhood instead of fighting with them and protecting myself from them?" "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice." That means greater. It's just greater. Um, than Cain, by which he obtained a witness that he was righteous. That he was morally upright? No. That he was living upright in who he really was. And he was bringing to God from his own true identity to God and saying, "God, I'm just going to give you what I have. This is what I do. I watch sheep. This is the best part of what I do." And when I watch, even here it is. And God's like, "Beautiful. What do you do? Bring it." That's what Cain does. Abel, because he comes by faith.

So, one night, I'm gonna wrap it up here and I'm going to talk more about this on Sunday. I just decided, um, because I want to tell you what happens with these three people. But one night, there's these two Muslim guys way up in the desert. One of them has had a dream about Jesus. I don't know exactly how. And he's telling the other Muslim, "Have you ever dreamed about Aisha? You know, the, the Jesus, the one in the Quran?" He's like, "No." He goes, "I've had a dream about him and I want to figure out how to, like, figure out who Jesus is. How can I do that? And I don't want to tell anyone about it. Do you know anywhere I can learn about Jesus?" And the other young Arab guy goes, "You're not going to believe this, but I heard a rumor that there's a guy driving around in the desert at night in a van. I don't know if it's true. I don't know if it's true." And he's like, "But apparently this guy drives around at night and he moves around and, um, and then he sets up lawn chairs, some recline lawn chairs, and you can go there. And this, he's an American. He talks about Jesus." And the guy goes, "How do you know that?" He goes, "I met this woman. Her eyes are down. She was in the market. Her Arabic's unbelievable and, um, I heard her, I heard her talking to this British woman that was with her and they were having this conversation and they were talking about this guy driving around in the van and they knew I could hear him and so I think they were trying to communicate to me." And so he said, "Do you know how to get in contact with?" He goes, "I know, I know how to get to the British woman. She's like a gypsy. She just kind of wanders around, but her Arabic's really good and I know how to contact her. She works with a bunch of women down in the marketplace. Go down and contact that guy." "Do you know where the van is meeting?" "Yes." And they tell me where. And this kid, these two, both of them go out into the desert and they come and there's this van and lawn chairs and they go there. And that's how both of them came to Christ. And those two guys, those two guys, yes, [applause] those two guys became the leaders of the movement that occurred in that city. Those two guys by a wandering eye southerner talking to a British trailer park girl about a guy who drives a van around in the desert. Yeah. [cheering] [applause] And God said, "Jamie, where's your thing?" Like, "I don't see anything." And I was bitter and downcast. That's the difference between Cain and Abel. Bring me who you are. Bring me who you are. The dumbest idea you have, bring it from your true identity and lay it on there. And God will have, God will have regard for it and he will take that thing and turn it into, you have no idea. But here's the thing. Don't separate. Don't separate. Don't separate. Stay with him. Get back with him tonight. We're going to pray right now. I'm going to close by praying right now. Um, if the band wants to come up here, they might have left already. They might have separated from us earlier. Uh, and, um, this is what I want to pray. Simple. I'm just, I just want to ask God like I'm Cain. Like God's right in our face and he's going, he's come right up to us. Jesus is right up to us. Jesus is the exact representation of the invisible God. That's how we image God is Jesus. Jesus is right there. Here's his question, like, "What's wrong? What's wrong? Like, what, what are you, what are you upset about? What's wrong?" He, that's called confession. Tell me what's wrong. What? Why are you so discouraged? What happened? Why did you step away from me like this? Tell him. Say it. Tell him. Because, Lord, because this and I feel like this. And tell him. Tell him. And repentance is him telling you the truth about who you really are. And he's just going to say this to you. Look, look, look, look, look. Just stand up right in your true identity. Stand up. Not in this separate, broken down. Stand up right in your true identity. The identity I gave you. If you don't know what that is, ask him what it is. Stand upright in that and give him that. Just give him that. And I promise you, the ideas that come out of your head, I don't care what the rest of the world thinks about them, they're going to be amazing. And, and, and Sunday, I'm going to tell you about those two Arab guys and what happened to them because of that study in that van in the desert. So, let's do that together. Father, let's bow our heads. Father, we come to you in the name of Jesus. The one, the great reconciler, the one who, like I said earlier, the one who while I was your enemy, you died so I couldn't be separate from you and your perfect love which casts out all fear. Like you came, you came so that we could be united with you and in united with our own identity. Like we're separate from our own heart. There, there's a division inside of me that I, it doesn't allow me to be with other people or you, Lord. And so, Lord, you came to to heal that, to bring healing and reconciliation in my own heart to myself and then with you and then out to other people. So, Lord, this is my question as you search me and know me tonight. Lord, where in my heart am I separate from you? Like, where did it happen? It's a little, it's a little thing. It was, it was something small that just got worse and worse and worse. And I want to come back. I want to [music] come back, Lord. I can be Cain and Abel in the course of a day. Half a day I can be Abel. In the half a day, I'm Cain. I want, I want to be Abel all the time. I want to stand upright in my true identity. And Lord, I want to bring things to you that come from who you made me to be and let you expand them and take them beyond what I could hope or dream. That's what I want, Lord. That's what [music] I want. And I want to be able to lead other people in this. I want to be able to impact my community with this. So Lord, would just [music] help me tonight, Lord. Just help me to tell the truth. Where am I separate from you?