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Israel's goal is, uh, power and survival of Israel and the enhancement of Israel vis-à-vis every one of their neighbors, which means every one of their neighbors needs to be subordinate, weaker, uh, fighting amongst themselves, or whatever. So, they aren't happy about what has happened vis-à-vis Iran because Iran has gone up in credibility, demonstrated their power, and has many new friends that Israel does not share.
Not long ago, Pete Hegseth took a trip to the Gulf countries, and he, uh, harangued them apparently on how they better be, they better stay American allies. That we can, even though we hadn't protected them and we got them shot up by the Iranians because we have our bases there, um, we would protect them in the future, we would still be their ally. And I think that fell on, I think a lot of it fell on deaf ears.
We're thinking like an empire in our country, or our government thinks like an empire. We are an empire in rapid decline. We've been in slow decline for a long time. Now we're in rapid decline. We, um, are not trusted. We say things that aren't true, and everybody knows that they aren't true.
Welcome to a new episode of World Affairs in Context. Today, I have the privilege of welcoming back a fantastic guest, Lieutenant Colonel Karen Katkovski, a retired US Air Force officer whose assignments included duties as a Pentagon desk officer and various roles for the National Security Agency. Since leaving government service, Karen has become a prominent voice on issues of war, intelligence, civil liberties, and government accountability. Karen, welcome to the program.
Thank you so much for being here.
Well, thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure to talk with you.
It's an honor to host you. And you know what? Today, it feels as though we're reliving the early days of the US-Iran war to an extent. The renewed escalation between the United States and Iran was triggered by a maritime dispute over the Strait of Hormuz, and the crisis in the strait appears to have shattered any hopes that the recent ceasefire and the JCPOA framework could actually hold. On July the 13th, Trump doubled down on his aggressive posture with the announcement that he is now reinstalling a blockade of Iranian ports, and on top of that, he's going to add a 20% tariff on all cargos traveling through the strait. Um, even though, according to the JCPOA, as we know very well, it is Iran's responsibility to manage maritime traffic through the strait. Um, Karen, how do you interpret these latest escalations and the most recent events?
Well, clearly Trump did not read any of the 14 points in the JCPOA that he signed. And, you know, I know that he took care to sign it in a public forum. You know, he was at the Palace of Versailles, has a lot of gold. He really likes gold. He likes the Palace of Versailles. He was there, and he put his signature on this document, and apparently, he never read it. He had no idea what was in it, and he had no intention of abiding by it. Because clearly, you know, I think he was surprised when he got back to Washington, um, since the thing had finally been published. I mean, we had seen the JCPOA in draft form multiple times. If you're, the Iranians were quite open with what their requirements were, but, um, the American press hadn't really looked into it. So, once Trump signed this JCPOA, immediately the neocons, the pro-war faction, the military-industrial complex, um, the non-MAGA Trump supporters, uh, all jumped on Trump, really, you know, hard and criticized him openly, including, uh, a number of people that he needed politically for other things that he wants to pass. Now, they're mad at him. His, uh, some of these, uh, Zionist influencers who are normally very pro-Trump, except when he doesn't do something they like relating to Israel, which this was, signing this was negative not just for, uh, the United States in their opinion, but also very negative for Israel. Because certainly, the very first, uh, uh, section, the first paragraph, regarded Israel pulling back out of South Lebanon. I mean, this was very clear, and ceasing their hostilities there. So, that didn't, the neocons didn't like it. The Zionists didn't like it. Uh, the military-industrial complex didn't really like it. And so Trump faced criticism. And the criticism that he faced at home came from people he knew. So that's how you get to Trump. You have to know him. You have to be in his circle. You have to be somebody that he'll answer your call or he will call you. Um, and so the people, uh, like the recently deceased, um, uh, Lindsey Graham, you know, he wasn't happy with this. He said, "No, no, we have to bomb. We have to bomb Iran. What, what are you doing? You gave away the whole, everything we had. Why would you sign this?" And so Trump is hearing from people like that criticizing his decision. So, um, and then he realizes he didn't read the document. He goes, "Wait a minute. I thought, I thought this was a good thing. They told me it was a good." Apparently, this is what happens when you have a president who does not and cannot read. Um, he's willing to sign his name. Nobody can read his signature. Have you noticed that his signature doesn't even contain letters? It's just a series of M's, you know. Uh, so, so he may not be able to write either. We don't know. In any case, it's a problem because he depends on what people tell him. And he is, uh, he he acts like he's not sensitive to criticism. He is hyper-sensitive to criticism. That's Trump. And we know this from day one. We know this from the grudges that he holds. We know this from the lawsuits that he files when people attack him or or disrespect him in some way. He's very sensitive to criticism, uh, particularly when it comes from people that he needs the support of or has formerly had the support of. So the neocons blew this up. Uh, the military-industrial complex may or may not have blown it up. They do want war. War is profit for them. And, and a losing war is just as good as a winning war. In fact, a losing war is better for the military-industrial complex than a winning war because a losing war means you didn't give our companies enough money, and that's why we couldn't produce the weapons that you needed in time, or whatever. So, uh, yeah, this is, uh, this is Trump being Trump. Um, and it's how his brain works or fails to work.
Now, the good thing is, not for Americans. None of this is good for Americans, 'cause Americans, we don't, you know, we're looking at our president. Yeah. Nobody likes the president. I don't care if it's Trump, Biden, or anybody else. You know, you, you hope the president does his job. You, every day, you, you hope that he does. But you want to side with your country. So, you want to say, "Well, Trump signed this agreement, and the war is, uh, has a 60-day hiatus." That's good. This is a very unpopular war in Iran. Nobody liked it. Nobody understood why we did it. Um, well, we kind of did, but we didn't agree with that reason. You know, Israel's war, let them fight their war. That, that's pretty much what Americans think. So, we look at this and we say, "He did something right. He maybe he doesn't listen to the people, but maybe he did because we didn't want this war, and he stopped it for 60 days, and he's telling us gas prices will go down, and things will get better in the, you know, the very amorphous global economy that we all live in." And, uh, and that lasted how long? I mean, they were, they were shooting, they were trading shots within days after that. So, um, and most Americans, they don't look at the Iranian news or the international news. And if you look at the Iranian position, um, everything that they've done is defensive. And this is what they say. They say, "We are not violating the JCPOA. We are defending our rights under the JCPOA." Because in paragraph 1, 5, 7, 10, pretty much all of them at this point now have been violated by the United States. And they were done so, um, without real explanation in some cases. You know, first off, remember the frozen funds that, that they were very close to getting some convoluted way of getting at least half of the, the 12 billion frozen funds back into, uh, Iranian hands. Now, these are Iranian dollars, okay? It's not like, oh, we're going to give them. Of course, the neocons said, "What are you doing giving them money?" What? No, it's actually their money. How it got frozen is really a critique of the international system. That should never have happened. You, I mean, can you imagine what would happen if you had, well, this happens to people if they say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing, you know, your bank account becomes frozen. You think that's not just, that's not right. But in no time or place do you ever not believe it was not your money that they took, right? You, well, that's how the Iranians perceive it, and they are exactly right in this. But even that didn't come to fruition. It came close, but it didn't come to fruition. So, why is this happening? This is everybody, nobody knows. I don't think anybody really understands exactly why it's happening. I think, um, I just looked at Ron Unz's essay, and he doesn't know why it's happening either. He he recommends people look at Danny Davis's deep dive interviews because they may be getting close to it. But really, Trump as a simplistic person who hears what people tell him and then attempts to make his own decisions based on that. He says oil prices didn't really, I mean, they went down. They didn't go up super high as they should have, even when the strait was mostly closed. And then when they dropped, they got back to kind of like what it was in February. So, 65, 70, 75, you know, that range per barrel. Now, these are probably oil futures. Actual oil prices vary based on what it is, where you buy it, when you actually close the deal, and that kind of thing. But, but Trump may have thought, well, you know, I'm getting all this criticism. I gave up too much. I shouldn't have done it. Look, oil's down to $71 a barrel today, or, you know, whatever it was last, last week. So, um, you know, he says, I can go ahead and do what I want to do. And then, of course, Trump is absolutely unhindered by the fact that our military can't sustain this, right? He doesn't. His idea is we have literally billions of missiles and billions of rockets and everything else that we need to fire at, at, uh, at Iran. We have no shortage. Well, that's not true. That's actually well-documented. We have, uh, we have a production shortage. We have a logistical gap. Uh, we are running out of certain types of missiles. I mean, um, and he knew this because he got mad at NATO. He got mad at the NATO conferences when he blew this thing up. Um, and what did he tell, what did he tell Zelensky at the NATO conference? Well, Zelensky was like, you know, hovering by the side. And, um, he goes, "Uh, um, quit asking me about Patriots. Why don't you go build some Patriots?" Right. I mean, he says, "You can have the life that you could." Well, of course, none of that is feasible, possible, going to happen. Not, it's just, but what it is, it does reflect Trump's thinking. "Quit bugging me. Here, you go do it. If you think it's so, you think it's so easy, you can, you can build missiles like us in Japan." And, um, and, you know, Japan was on his mind because he repeatedly mentioned the Islamic Republic of Japan. Do you remember that in the?
Oh, yes. I mean, it's.
He mentioned it twice in one paragraph. He didn't correct himself, which is also a sign of, he's at the very best, he's under a lot of stress. At worst, he is, he's incapacitated mentally, and we, he can't process. But, um, anyway, so we don't really know. I think what's going to happen, just to make a quick prediction, is, um, the Groundhog Day continues. You know, ground. We wake up, we're at war. Then we wake up, we're not at war. I think Trump may, um, now that oil is at in the low 70s, um, maybe Trump will have peace on a Friday or promise peace to occur on Monday or something, or have a ceasefire, whatever it is that he does that he can his friends and him can profit from, uh, oil trading. So, we'll probably see some of that. I think the military can't sustain what has happened. And that's the conservative, that's my conservative estimate. What, what could happen is, um, Iran could sink one of our ships, um, or damage it badly in a, a very, uh, where there's a video. Well, of course, they will have video if they take a ship out there. Video will be everywhere on that. So then, then Trump is going to come under a lot of pressure, and then the Navy's going to say, "Uh, we told you we could not enforce a blockade because we can't go in close. When you make us go in close, we become targets, and we, you will lose more ships, not less." So the Navy has will, I think the Navy will double down and just say, "Look, guys, you know, look, Mr. President, uh, Pete Hegseth, you better tell your boss to explain the reality of the US Navy's capabilities around the world, and particularly in the, uh, Strait of Hormuz. We don't have them." I mean, the Houthis, who are not even the government, they are against, they fight against their government. So it's kind of a simmering civil war in Yemen. The Houthis, half of the country's military forces chased the entire US Navy out of the Red Sea after two months. Trump, Trump knows this because Trump was president when he started the operation and ended it. He's, he's quite aware of our, uh, or he has been made aware in the past of the limitations of our navy capacity. Uh, certainly in the Air Force capacity, you know, we can't come in close. We can't operate from any close-in bases. So what does that take? Well, it takes multiple refuelings to get anywhere near the ability to, to, to launch airborne missiles from or air-launched missiles into Iran. So you can do it, but it takes like three times the gas. It takes three times the J, the, the, uh, jet fuel. So, okay, what's the shortage that's happening because of the 1/5th of the oil not going out of the, the strait? Well, it's, it's, it's oil and, uh, all the pro, all the things we produce from oil, all the jet fuel and the, the gasoline and the diesel and everything else. So, um, uh, you know, the Trump, none of this makes sense, but Trump doesn't take in the whole picture. I don't think he looks at the oil price. Can I make money? Yes. If it's higher, he views, um, sales of American oil at a higher amount as a, as a, uh, a positive because he thinks of himself as the state. You know, he, he's never been a, never elected politician. He's never been on city council. You know, he doesn't, he's not a public servant, um, per se. And I'm not saying that most of these guys are actual public servants either. But Trump doesn't even have the experience of lying about being a public servant. You know, he doesn't have the experience of saying, "Yeah, a citizen came to me, and this is what they need, and so I have to serve them." No, Trump thinks like a real estate investor. He thinks as a, a power broker. And, um, so, you know, he, if, if the United States sells oil at $80 a barrel, that's better than if the United States sells oil globally for $65 a barrel. So he's looking at that number, and that's kind of, I think, framing how he thinks about things. Um, he also is told a lot of things that aren't true by the people around him. Um, he's waking up to this, and I think it's causing him stress.
One thing is that China is beatable in any arena. I don't care if it's AI, technology, population, uh, their military capability, every, in every way, China is not beatable by us. They are, they are at the very least, a very competitive near-peer. You know, they are a peer to the United States, but actually, they're more, they're more powerful than we are in ways that we value. They produce more. They have a bigger industrial capacity. They have global trade. They have a lot more friends in the world than we do. China does. You know, you think like, oh, the Chinese communists, nobody's their friend. Well, actually, everybody's their friend because they don't go in and put a Chinese base in the middle of your country and then start changing your government for you because you didn't choose correctly last time. >> Um, so China is not, what China is far more capable than what Trump has been told. Um, far more strategic. And then he's told a lot of false things about Russia. And part of this is because of the propaganda around the the Ukraine war. You know, Russia is weak. Russia is going to fail. Russia doesn't have this, they don't have that. And actually, Russia is probably, uh, well, Russia is also a near-peer to the United States. Of course, much smaller in population, um, uh, you know, not as big of an exporter, but their military capacity and their productivity in industrial, uh, capability, it's solid. I mean, it's way more than we have. You know, I don't know if you saw this. They're making BMWs.
Oh, I didn't know. I, I didn't see that.
Illegally. Illegally, according to the German BMW, because only obviously it's a trademarked product of Germany. Everybody, you know, you say BMW, we know German technology, German manufacturing, German engineering. It's all great. Well, um, BMW, well, Germany sanctioned Russia. And of course, there's no BMWs. Of course, they have purchased many BMWs in, uh, and they had actually, Germany closed down a Russian, a plant, a BMW plant in Russia. They closed it down, shuttered it. Well, it got bought. It got reopened. It's producing BMWs.
Why not? They need help. Yeah.
And apparently, um, it, well, it's very upsetting to the BMW company because they make them a lot cheaper. They look exactly the same, and some people say they're just as good. So, we don't know if they're just as good. I haven't obviously traveled to either place, and I've never even driven a BMW. But this is what Russia's capable of, okay, under sanctions. And it's much like we see, um, Iran under 40 years of sanctions, what they're capable of of becoming more self-sufficient. And really, China's the model of what you do under sanctions. Last time Trump sanctioned them, China told all the companies that operate in China, if you honor those sanctions, if you pay those fees, those tariffs, uh, we will punish you legally. You will be in jail. We forbid you as a government to honor the American threats of sanctions and the actual sanctions that Tom Bessant must have put his signature on. So, this is how the rest of the world treats us. But in Trump's world, it's not that way. In Trump's world, he, he lives maybe 50 years ago, you know, maybe in the '80s, um, maybe, um, at the peak of maybe like 1991 when we put our massive army into Iraq, which had no navy and no air force. They had ground-launched defense and an army. And we went in there with our massive forces, and we, you know, wiped the floor, right, with Iraq. This is Trump's memory of what he has, what he rules over. And it's not, it's changed. Trump missed the change. He wasn't paying close attention. Um, it's something he grew up with. You know, he spent all his life thinking this way. How, how do you expect an 80-year-old man to, uh, suddenly believe things that he does not believe? It's hard. It's hard to get a 20-year-old person to believe things they don't believe, you know, to say, "Hey, there's some new information here. Have you looked at this? Can you think about this?" You can't do that with Trump. You can't do that with most 80-year-olds. So, it's just the way it is. So, he is, uh, living in a world that doesn't exist, and he's fighting a war, losing a war, um, destroying many things that he's not even aware of. Um, not just in the global economy, but, um, uh, you know, our military is being destroyed by this. We have, well, I say destroyed, it should be destroyed, but the problem is we have no plan to what comes next after our military is gutted. You know, we're not building ships anymore. Um, our airplanes that we build that we try to force on our friends, like the, uh, the, uh, F-35. It's an albatross. You know, it's a white elephant gift. You do not want the F-35. It is, count, it can, it's easily countered by the weather. It's easily countered by any of the enemies out there that we might want to fly it over, and it's extremely expensive and hard to maintain. So anyway, Trump lives in a world in his mind, and he is fed information that supports alternative agendas, and they know how to manipulate him. And this goes as far as other countries. I mean, not just Bibi Netanyahu. Obviously, Bibi does everything he can. He knows Trump well. He knows his buttons. But, you know, even, uh, the, uh, obsequiousness of the NATO guys, you know, some of the NATO people who like Rudy, just with the head, head of NATO, you know, such a lap dog for Trump, so much, "Father Trump, Daddy Trump," you know, and this is all just, uh, you know, manipulation of Trump because that's what works, and nothing else does. You could tell Trump the truth, and it doesn't work. If you flatter him and tell him a lie, you might get exactly what you want him to do. So, anyway, big problem. I don't, I've, I don't know if we've ever.
You know, when we had Wilson as president, remember Wilson? Well, none of us remember him, obviously, but World War I, and he, he ran to, he won the election, "I will keep you out of the European war, the Great War that was happening. It's not our war. We'll keep you out of it." That was a lie. Immediately as soon as he was elected the first time, worked to get us in, to work to help one side and to participate in that war. And then after his second election, he, he did the same, and actually, we got in. We joined World War I. Then he had a stroke, um, around that time, I think. And so for the last two or three years of his, um, second term, Wilson was, um, not functional, and he had his advisors, one particular guy and his wife, who was a very young, it was his second wife, and she was in her 20s. She was not, but she was a force to be reckoned with, and she had her ideas, and I'm sure, you know, she said, "This is what we'll do," and she worked with, um, what's the guy's name? Colonel, uh, the guy's name actually had "colonel" in the name, he was not a military colonel. Back. >> Anyway, that's a guy that, that was a president who was not functional and was run by his staff. So Biden's not the first case that we've had, but of course, Biden is the most recent case, and then we have Trump. So, it's almost like a, it's not even about Trump. It's about what is wrong with our democracy? What is wrong with our republic? Do we even have a republic? Because, oh, well, that's, I've probably went way too far on that one.
No, but going back to what you said about China and China being a peer competitor. I remember seeing an interview by, uh, Pete Hegseth, and I'm not sure the date of the interview, but he said that in every single war game that the Pentagon carries out, China prevails. So, if he knows this, and I will try to post, I will try to find the clip and post it on my X and Telegram, just so people can go back and look at it. But, but so if he knows this, then surely Trump has to be fully aware and, and he should kind of get a sense of where the US stands in terms of military power and its direct competitors. Um, so that was, I thought that was quite interesting.
Yeah, that is interesting. And, um, you know, it's hard to say though if that was an interview. You know, a lot of these guys that Trump has on his staff, and, and really any president, you know, they, they staff their, uh, executive branch with their friends and their allies and people that they personally trust. And not all these people are are exceptionally competent. You know, we've got the PY grandson. Mr. PY is running temporarily running the, uh, the, um, Director of National Intelligence. He, he's never been inside the Pentagon prior to this job. I mean, he's not, he's a real, he's a builder, related to, I guess you could say he's more of a real estate guy.
Um, so it's not competence that gets these guys their jobs for the most part. I mean, occasionally you'll, you'll find an appointment even in the Trump administration. I'm not picking on his administration. I'm saying when presidents appoint people, generally they do, they appoint their friends and trusted colleagues over, uh, competent people. So, Hegseth is not a competent person, which means when he's depending on who is interviewing him, you can tease, I'm sure they teased out information or get him to say things that he would never ever say to Trump. Because what you're going to go into Trump and say, "Hey, Trump, you know this Iran thing you got us into?" Yeah, I thought it was good, too. But it's a complete flop. We're losing everything, and you're destroying our military capability, and it'll take more than 1.5 trillion to fix it. It'll probably take 10 trillion to fix it. We don't have it. So, it means it's not going to get fixed unless you change something. It's that bad. Or, Mr. Trump, we've done some war games. Actually, we've done dozens of war games posing against China. We lose everyone. Okay. Um, did you know that, Mr. Trump? So, let's not antagonize China unnecessarily. And certainly, you need to give up on defense of Taiwan. That's not going to happen. And you ruined our navy in Iran, so we don't have the capability to defend Taiwan even if you wanted to do that. I don't think Hegseth is going to say that to Trump because that's not how Hegseth operates. That's not how Hegseth got his job. Um, and Trump is not a person that can be, um, you know, he is, he's a narcissist. Uh, not, not in a terrible way, but he has narcissist tendencies. He, he, like everybody, enjoys being, you know, complimented. He, he is susceptible to flattery. You know, and, and, uh, your average person when they're flattered too much, they, you know, back hairs go up. They know, okay, what's this guy, what does this person want? Um, but Trump seems to enjoy it very much. He, he likes it. He flatters himself. If he's not getting enough flattery in the press, he will flatter himself in the third person, which we >> people, I think it's it's funny to watch it, but he does that all the time. And he's increasingly doing that now as he's getting a lot of like >> he said he was, what was his popularity at 60%? He said, and it's at like 30%. But >> he, he, you know, he really has to feel a certain way to function. And so the people around him, like his appointees, know that you have to leave Trump feeling good. You cannot, if you have the truth to tell, you need to be very careful with how you present that truth. And, and there better be a win that Trump can take away from that. And, uh, and really honestly, it's possible that, uh, the, the 14-point, that was pretty much everything that Iran needed and wanted, very little that we did. But that's 'cause we lost that war. And that's what happens when you lose a war. Um, you don't get what you wanted out of it. You made a mistake. You made an error in judgment. You wasted your resources. You're now in a weaker position. And you take what is put before you. So that's the facts of it. You know, Trump should not be insulted by that. But as this stuff came out, he received criticism, and that's, and he, he said, "I can't, how do I make a win out of this?" Well, sir, you, you didn't win. So, you can't make a win out of it. You have to say, "Well, you have to say, well, oil prices will drop." So, he, he signed the MOU. Oil prices came down. He got mad. "Where's the rest of my win? Where's my chocolate chip cookie?" versus the things that I was promised I would get. And it's like, dude, you still lost the war. Um, but I think that's, he, he doesn't, too much of this is about his personality. And, you know, we, we pick on, like, North Korean guys, the North Korean, the father of the current one, and the current one too, but these cults of personality. I mean, I think they looked at Mao too, you know, the, the, remember the, in, in Mao's revolution, the Group of Four, you know, they had, uh, they had personalities and they had personal agendas, and the whole of a country was shaped as a result of these personal agendas, really, and the force of their personality. And you think a republic is not like that, or even a democracy shouldn't be like that, but our country, United States, is like that. Um, and it's not just Trump. This idea that, oh, Trump came out of nowhere. No, he didn't. Look at Biden. Look at Obama. There's a prime example of a person who was actually put in so that his personality could shape the nation. You know, this is, it was a selling point. So, anyway, I don't know. I don't, I don't know where the future lies, but I don't think we can continue fighting. And I think Iran can continue both taking the hits that they've taken already. They've proven they have ability to do that, and they have massive, uh, war fighting capability left of the type that they've been using. You know, are they flying airplanes over Israel? No, they're not doing that. But they have drones and rockets that can get there. And they have allies. And they don't just have allies that the Israelis are complaining about, you know, oh, Hezbollah is their ally. Uh, no, the, Yemen, you know, the Houthis are their ally. They have Russian, China in their court. Okay. That they have Pakistan, nuclear-powered Middle Eastern Pakistan is in their court. Um, they have trustworthiness in the region. Whether they, whether the people like Iran, don't like Iran, hate Shiites, love Shiites, it doesn't matter. They have credibility because what they have said, they have done, and they have only said, they have told you everything that they're going to do, and then they follow through. Every single time, follow through. So they have global credibility, which means even countries that aren't their friends will work with them. And this is what we're seeing with the, uh, shipping companies. They were like, before Trump, uh, even before the JCPOA, the shipping companies, not just Chinese, but global shipping companies and insurance companies were saying, "Okay, the new strait procedures look like this, and it looks like Iran's got it under control. Looks like their system has evolved such that we can now take the risk and we can go in and out, bring goods in, take oil and energy out." So, they're ready to cooperate. They, because they can, they know Iran is true to its word. And on our end, Trump changes every single day, pretty much lies constantly. Um, I think they were saying he's 39 times he's won the war in Iran. He's obliterated Iran, you know, and at this point, no one believes anything that he says. And so it's not just that Iran has existing allies, which they do. They have the potential to build that and grow those allies and develop those relationships on a, on trust basis. We don't have that. Nobody trusts us. And they don't trust Israel either. And so that's our only friend. Two, two countries that the world doesn't trust. These are hanging together till the bitter end. It's pretty scary, actually.
Indeed. And, and on July the 13th, the Houthis, Ansar Allah, announced that the ceasefire with Saudi Arabia is over after Saudi jets carried out four attacks on Sanaa airport. Um, the Saudi attack took place to allegedly prevent the landing of an Iranian airplane in Sanaa. So, is this effectively an expansion of the US-Iran conflict? A, a second or a third front in the Middle East, since the Houthis are very much aligned with Iran?
Yeah, it, it is an expansion. And also, you know, not long ago, Pete Hegseth took a trip to the Gulf countries, and he, uh, harangued them apparently on how they better be, they better stay American allies. That we can, even though we hadn't protected them and we got them shot up by the Iranians because we have our bases there, um, we would protect them in the future, we would still be their ally. And I think that fell on, I think a lot of it fell on deaf ears. I think those countries, um, many of those, what do I call them? Theocracies? They're not theocracies. They're, um, well, like the Emirates, they're kingdoms, you know. So, they're not democracies per se, and they're, um,
They're, they're countries with oil wealth with diverging, you know, they're working on diversification of their economies, but they're still vulnerable to other things. They have, they're dependent on American military stuff for one thing, something we're seeing NATO move away from. You know, NATO is spending more on their own defense, much as Trump demanded, but they're not buying American. They're, they're saying this is, this is a risk factor. And I think the, the Gulf states are, are doing the same thing. The thing with, uh, Saudi Arabia, uh, and of course, not just their war with Yemen, but the UAE and the Saudi war in Sudan is also another thing. So, a lot of this is kind of the old style thing that we would always look to Israel. Israel wants to foment division and fighting throughout the Middle East. Part of why we have fought, uh, the seven of the seven wars that Israel demanded of us in the last 30 years was to not to do regime change per se. You know, what regime change should we do in Libya? We just, uh, introduce chaos. And that chaos allows, uh, Israel and to some extent the United States to take advantage of it. But, um, yeah, I'm sure that, uh, this restarting of this ending of the ceasefire there and Saudi Arabia's activities is part of the same war, and it's going to be dealt with by the same people. It's going to be dealt with by Iran because Ansar Allah is the, that's part of the resistance front. So, so, you know, and this all serves Israel to some extent, but we're also seeing a new front breaking out. If you listen to Israeli media and their politicians, you know, they think Turkey is going to be, you know, Turkey has expansive greater Turkey aspirations, and, um, they're going to, uh, threaten Israel. Well, yeah, they are. This is what's going to happen. I mean, you know, Israel lives by the sword, dies by the sword. They have fermented, um, so much trouble that any country that can seeks to get bigger and exert control for their own, that's just the natural thing you want to do. You, you can't move out. Actually, I'm increasingly thinking that Israel is going to pack up and leave at some point before or after a nuclear weapon is is used. But, um, you know, Turkey's not going anywhere. It may, you know, they may have old dreams of a larger Turkey, a greater Turkey, Ottoman Empire, or something. I don't, I don't think it goes that far. I don't think that's widely shared. But Turkey's Turkish people aren't going anywhere. Palestinians aren't going anywhere. Um, the last ones in, what is it called? Last hired, first fired. Okay. So I think, um, you know, if you look at what Israel is doing, they're expanding into the Mediterranean for basing for allied support. You know, they, they, this idea that, um, Israel's happy about, uh, the ISIS guy that runs, uh, Galani, you know, Syria.
Yeah. Al-Jalani.
But Israel wanted Jalani there to weaken Syria because Syria was actually stronger than Israel could tolerate it under Assad. So they wanted, is, they wanted Syria weakened. First thing they did when that war broke out was, um, and Jalani emerged, was to destroy all of the Syrian army bases and all of their their arms depots, just totally mass bombing. They knew everything, every target they had, they, they lit it up. So, um, and then they took over, you know, Syrian property because they wanted to do that, and there's no military to stop them. So that, that is all something that they wanted, but they don't particularly care for a neighbor like Jalani, like, "We're gonna work with him." No, that's part of greater Israel, and that's, you know, they would like that, but that's not going to work in the current situation. So, you're seeing Israel basically kind of both politically and in actual demographics immigrate a little bit to other Mediterranean, you know, Greece and Crete and and Albania, uh, Somaliland. I don't think too many are immigrating to Somaliland, but certainly putting bases there is on their agenda. Um, you've got the the Isaac Accords in South and Central America, uh, huge facilitation of Israeli, uh, industry, technology, and populations moving into those places. And of course, we have the largest, or second largest population, or maybe a larger population than Israel of Jewish folk. Unfortunately for Zionists, most of those Jews in the United States are not Zionists. Okay? They, they actually don't, don't support the project. Those who support the project live there. Those who don't support the project or a little bit nervous about the project will live here. So, uh, yeah, I mean, Israel has choices that the other countries don't have. Um, so I think they would be happy to destroy the whole region and then, um, you know, find a new place to live. And it's weird because for Americans who, who are told, uh, you know, the, the Christian Zionism version of, you know, this place of Israel that God said the Jews have to go back to. I mean, you couldn't hardly convince Jews in Europe to go there. I mean, they did not, Zionism was, um, popular as a concept among some, but the idea of moving to Israel and setting up a Zionist state, that was highly debated, and they had to pull teeth to get people there. And then when they got there, it's like, well, this isn't like Europe. It's all brown. There's not enough water. >> I mean, you know, we're surrounded by people. We have to do these terrible things. And that's not part of, you're, you're mixing, you're, you're polluting our religion with your politics. And Um, so anyway, they had other choices of places they could go. They had other offers of places they could go, and they, they chose Israel. So that just tells me that they're not connected to the land. And I'll tell you the other thing, this is just an aside, but when you see how and what Israel has done to Gaza, South Lebanon, Syria, basically every place that they fight, they don't just kill the people and bomb the buildings. They destroy the water systems, and they burn the land, and they drop, um, high concentrations of Roundup on huge swaths of property. They bulldoze the olive trees that have been there for years. They burn the pine trees, the Lebanese pine trees, and other, you know, nature. So, is the Israelis, as they live under Zionism in general, not, I'm sure there are some that don't abide by this and love nature, but for the most part, they are urban people with fear and contempt for nature. They are, they are destroyers of the earth. Now, I'm not making it like they're devils. I'm just saying they don't have, they're not, um, in sync with environmentalism unless it's their own, which of course is impossible, right? I mean, you can't, you know, you're going to make an island of, uh, clean nature, but you're surrounded by Roundup killed, uh, wasteland that has is basically increasingly covered with dead bodies. I mean, that's not environmentally sound. And I think it's because they're not people of the, they're not people who the culture isn't sympathetic to the environment in Israel. I'm saying otherwise, how, how would you have your kids go, "Hey, go set fire to your neighbor's house and come back, be, be home before dinner." What kind of value system is that? You know, that's a value system that says, uh, nature is irrelevant. It's ownership is everything. Control is everything. Nature is irrelevant. So, I think people that will destroy their own backyards, which we see Gaza, let's say they want to take over Gaza. I mean, you know, if you're a farmer and you had a neighboring farm that you wanted to buy or or get or or to use, the first thing you do would not be to kill it and bulldoze it and knock down every tree. You wouldn't do that. You know, you say, "This is land that we, I would like to have." You might kill the people still because you're immoral, but in Israel's case, they don't really want to use the land. They almost, it's like the fox in the, uh, m, you know, the manger. He, he doesn't eat hay, but he doesn't want anybody else to have hay. So anyway, people that, I should say people, but a government that has a value system that is reflected in how they do their business, how they destroy the environment, that's not a place that shows me they intend to live there for a long time, right? I mean,
You know, we watched the World Cup, and the Norwegian team brought all their food from Norway. And remember when they did, did you watch any of that?
No, I, I haven't. I didn't.
Well, anyway, the Norwegian team, and they're not the only one, but the Norwegian team got some news coverage because they brought all their food from Norway, and they talked about why they did that. And it wasn't just that we have to eat our Norwegian food. It was, "American food is filled with all the things that are banned in Europe. So, we don't really want to eat some of the stuff that you guys have in your food system, especially because we're elite athletes and we want to, you know, win games." So this, this, um, uh, concept of, uh, health, you don't see that. You don't see that in, in Israel. How, how can you possibly, um, bulldoze, burn, uh, raze, kill people, let them rot into the buildings, which they're doing in Gaza and in Lebanon, um, and put Roundup and other poisonous pesticides. They use, uh, uh, depleted uranium weapons. They, they use, what is it? White phosphorus, which never goes away. I mean, it just, until it burns up, it's still there years later, catch on fire if exposed to oxygen. So these are all things, most of them are, a lot of this stuff's banned. They're using that in their own environment. That tells me they're not staying there. You wouldn't do that if you were going to stay there. So I think, I think, I think the Middle East will, uh, in the future, maybe not in my lifetime, but soon enough, uh, we won't see Israel in the Middle East. It'll be a different place. Uh, I think the Israelis will reform in a new place. If they want to do their Zionist, uh, approach, they'll do it somewhere else. Honestly, you, you can't love your country and and treat the land like that. It just makes no sense.
Um, speaking about the military sort of activities right now, um, against Iran, how closely are US and Israeli military objectives actually aligned today, and where do they diverge?
Well, that's a good question. Um, you know, Netanyahu wants to get reelected, and he doesn't want to go to jail. He needs war, constant war to do that. He needs to be the person who, uh, fought and won wars. Unfortunately, he fought many wars. He started many new ones, but he didn't win any of them. Like, the Israeli people, the polls, and the politicians pretty much agree that he did not get rid of Hamas. He is none. Hezbollah is stronger than they've ever been in 25 years. And this is after the, the Patriot attack of of a couple years ago. You know, supposed to be very ingenious. But Hezbollah is strong, and, uh, the, uh, territories are really not gaining Israel.
any support because this illegal settlers are so um morally unattractive and we have we live in a world where people take pictures. So what they did so the the the experience that um Roana had just this weekend I guess or last week uh when he was in this uh the occupied territories how he was treated you know this all piles on to what the whole world pretty much thinks of Israeli settlers and so you're seeing you know uh boycots of their products and things like that so so you could say well Netanyahu has taken over more land and increased some settlements or whatever but the cost of doing that has been has hit the Israeli pocketbook.
The businesses um of course the country is immersed in war. A lot of people sent their kids abroad. A lot of people are going to their second passport countries that they have and more power to them. You know, they don't want to stay in a war zone. So, he's in trouble and you've got uh he there's going to be an election, but that's his focus right now. So, his focus, just like Trump's in some ways, is to how do I paint this as a win, which is hard to do in Israel.
In the United States. Um Trump doesn't have as much power as Netanyahu does in Israel. Um first off, half the country hates Trump because those are the half that didn't like they didn't vote for him anyway, right? And then he split MAGA up with his pro-war activities with his uh backing away from some of the make America healthy again things, some of the things that brought voters into the Trump camp. He has rejected all that. So, oh, Epstein files, his abandonment within weeks of taking office of the Epstein files. Basically telling people there's nothing there. I don't know why you're talking about this. Why? Well, maybe it's cuz you talked about it for for two solid years of your campaign. He said you were going to do something. Then as soon as he gets in, he doesn't. So, he he has ruined MAGA. He's he's driven away many of his uh people that would make excuses for him or support him in some way. So, he doesn't have the power really that Netanyahu does. Um, Israelis are much more politically engaged. Um, and they're not I mean, I don't think Netanyahu is going to win any election. I don't know who's going to win it. Nothing much will change. But Netanyahu is dealing with that. I think his priority right now is stay out of jail when he loses the election. So, good luck to him.
Trump has a different problem, you know. Uh, well, maybe he he might go to jail, too. I guess there's that possibility. But Trump does not have uh the kind of control. In fact, Israel controls more of our politicians than Trump does. Apac sets the Congress's tone. So Trump's here, you know, kind of dealing with Congress where Israel is is actually more influential over our Congress than Trump is. So that's a problem. It's almost like Iran is dealing with the United States and saying, um, you know, you have to control Israel. Well, we don't control Israel. We we don't control them in Washington and we don't control them in, uh, the Middle East, which a lot of people say, oh, and that's not true. There are there are puppet we use them. Well, we do use them and we benefit from some of the stuff they do, but we actually don't set the agenda. Israel sets the agenda in Washington and they said it in the Middle East in terms of this uh failed and and all the activities that they've continued to do with great enthusiasm since theou was signed and for the duration of well in Gaza for the last two and a half almost three years now. So yeah, so Trump is in a difficult position.
I mean you elect a guy president, Trump says I'm a strong man. We said we want a strong man. Put a strong man up there. He'll do things. And what does he do? everything we told him not to do and then he can't get out of it. But I so I think the agenda you asked about the the goals. No, Israel's goal is very different. Israel's goal is power and survival of Israel and enhancement of Israel vav every one of their neighbors which means every one of their neighbors needs to be subordinate weaker uh fighting amongst themselves or whatever. So they aren't happy about what has happened visa via Iran because Iran has gone up in credibility demonstrated their power and has many new friends that Israel does not share. So there's that. I mean Israel just the other day um uh the capital of Syria, Damascus airport. I guess it's Damascus. So the airport has a u a new uh Turkish provided or whatever um radar system of some sort and it's just an upgrade. I say new, it's like they upgraded it and it's a good system and it's not a spy system. But um Israel launched a protest and said you must remove that. You must remove that because that your your radar at the Damascus airport will interfere with our freedom of operation over the entire region because it can be used to monitor and track us and we in a way that we don't like and therefore we demand that you take it out. as much as they went into Lebanon with the US Lebanese Israeli agreement and said um the the Lebanese army will prepare a way for us to continue to occupy and it's like the army's not going to do that but the politicians agreed you know President Aun agreed so basically Israel likes to call the shots that's part of what they need to do and they do that so their agenda is actually somewhat clear um Trump wants to not be impeached next year Trump wants to not be remembered as the Herbert Hoover who destroyed the global economy because he didn't fight or the guy who fought the US military into the ground such that we had no military such that he's the president that saw potentially you know the Chinese takeover of Taiwan which I don't think is going to happen militarily why would they have to 50% of the voters want to join anyway it's you just wait a couple more elections and Taiwan will will merge with China quite happily uh politically so But this thing that they fight on that that they that they run on Trump. Yeah. I'm going to protect Taiwan. No, you're going to be remembered as the guy that lost Taiwan that did that because you were fighting a war you didn't need to fight that Israel asked you to do. Did it very stupidly. Refused to quit when you were so far behind. You know, you keep fighting until there's nothing left. Yeah. So, you're the hoover of the world. You're the guy that lost Taiwan. you're the guy that destroyed the military-industrial complex, which of course would be a plus in my view, except they have no plan for a new defense of America, right?
>> The the ideas are there's a huge shortage of ideas in Washington. And that's also comes right back to Trump's brain. You know, if he didn't think of it, if one of his flatterers didn't put the idea in his head, it doesn't exist. It is we there is no uh uh way to really uh fix our military with Trump there. He's not open to he's in a par he's locked in a paradigm that is not going to change fruit until he dies. I mean it's just that simple. It he's not capable of of doing anything different than what he's done already. It it does feel that that defense of America is really based on the idea of this proactive aggression toward all other states. And whether that's military aggression, whether that's economic aggression, um or just political rhetoric that uh you know just um humiliates other leaders, that that seems to be kind of the the the the foundation of of Trump's foreign policy at the moment. But when we speak about the Middle East and this constant um what many people refer as uh to as the escalation trap, right? What military red lines actually remain at this point before the conflict reaches a point where deescalation is virtually politically impossible? It seems that theou provided an offramp. Theou was a really good way of just, you know, claiming victory for Trump and and then just letting Iran be and let that new framework of perhaps new security arrangements emerge in the Middle East at some point in time in in the future. But but he didn't take that chance. So it it seems that we're moving toward this line where any political um or diplomatic solution between the United States and Iran is virtually impossible because there is no trust.
>> Yeah, there's no trust. And also it is in Israel's interest to keep us in the Middle East. um that they uh you know the Abraham Accords they call them but I mean the idea that um if if the US pressures and bribes Middle Eastern countries with military with investment um or whatever they'll accept Israel and that that will be uh enhance the security of Israel but that's all very superficial because it's really the money part happens the investment happens but the trust is not built because nobody trusts Israel or the United States but Israel doesn't want us to pull out of the region too rapidly. Okay, which is why you're seeing a military base going to be built in Gaza. You're seeing uh we took over Bengurion airport. We couldn't put our our tankers airplanes and a lot of our other airplanes anywhere closer. So, we uh we actually they they're complaining they can't do civilian ops out of Benurion because we've got so many of our airplanes there. I think it's I think it's better now. Well, it was after theou, but it could easily that's where we operate from. We also beefed up our our uh military basing in Jordan, which is not something we really love to do um because the ba the bases we loved are the Gulf Coast bases. You know, obviously fifth fleet headquarters in Bahrain, that's a very central um location, a thing that that we we valued. Well, those are getting shot up. what Iran is doing is extremely consistent with not just what they've said, but it's consistent with the strategy which is to which they have identified which is you need to get you America need to get your bases out of our region, out of our backyard. We're not going to tolerate it. Um and they're and they don't have to and they're capable of making us leave. So they're doing that, but we're not leaving the region entirely. You you have heads Seth begging for at least some tow holds in Saudi Arabia and and a few other places. You've got uh Israel which would never tolerate an American base forever. You know, we don't even have a a military mutual agreement or treaty of any type with Israel. Mutual defense treaty does not exist. We don't have that. They're not a part of NATO. Never going to be a part of NATO. So, all of this is really informal. Like, uh what would you do if Israel's attacked? Well, we don't we do we do what we've done for the last 30 years. we fight their wars for them. But that is all done ad hoc. That is done because of congressional control by APEC uh you know money passing hands all these things. And Israel for the longest time would never allow any military basing in Israel proper. But with Gaza because they've raised it. It's ready to go for new construction. Not a not a fancy Trump hotel. That comes later. But first will come the military base. They're going to build a military base there. We've got um a huge military base in Bosnia, I think it is. So, that's a little farther north. We have our bases in Turkey, which are these are issues for for Israel. But Israel also is inviting us in to Lebanon. And a few years ago, it was in the news, we built this massive almost the world's largest um embassy in uh in Lebanon in the capital. So we are increasing our presence closer and closer in around Israel. So fortress Israel, we are getting pushed back into that. But um Israel does not want us to leave them alone. They do not want us to pull out entirely. Like Trump says, I don't need I don't need the oil. Why are we there? You know, let's end the Carter doctrine. We don't need the oil. We're an oil exporter now. We're out of there. But no, we're not really. Israel wants us to stay and protect them and serve as a instant shield for whatever activities they continue to pursue. So that is part of their agenda and we're seeing that happen. Again, they set the agenda. The Isra what the Israelis want they tend to get. They own our Congress. Um, they own President Trump even though I think he's not I think Trump feels like he's done enough. But what's the alternative? He's Trump is bought and paid for. He's compromised um by Israel. I think and whether it's just the money or they actually have, you know, dirt on him of some sort, he's totally uh beholden to Israel. And also, you know, his best friends are Zionists. His Steve Wickoff, I don't know if you saw the quote what Steve Wickoff had told Netanyahu. Nanyahu is floating this out there. He's as part of his own domestic campaign. Uh but he said he had a meeting with Wickoff early on in the negotiations that um went on with with uh well before the 12-day war. And he said Wickoff told him that Wickoff as a fellow Zionist or as a fellow Jew, I'm not sure which. I'm pretty sure Zionist um would never tolerate Nazis. Two two million Nazis on the southern border of uh of Israel. They're referring to Gaza. We'll never tolerate that. They must all go. This is Whit. he's he's our negotiator. So, uh and then he's got Kushner who's got money invested in all these countries and they have money invested in him. So, we have this corruption and this integration. And then you've got our NDAA which is going to integrate further the Israeli military with our military, our acquisitions, our technology. And the purpose of that is to allow them even greater access and a far more limited um ability to uh account for it. you know, like now we have to vote. Congress has to go through the motions of a 10-year, you know, 3.8 billion a year thing plus every little thing we decide to give them. I mean, we've given them 30 billion just in the past, uh, year, I think, uh, on top of the 3.8. So, the 3.8 is like a token, but it causes undue publicity for the APEC funded congressmen who really can't defend doing it when we have so many needs in the United States. It's very unpopular now, especially after Gaza. Nobody likes Israel. So, um, they need to get it into the system where they can draw far more than 3.8 billion and do it all without any public critique or acknowledgement. So, you know, it'll be a conspiracy theory, you know, oh, I think they isn't that weird how they did that and then you'll have to prove it, you know, and nobody will be able to prove it. So, meanwhile, it it works advantage Israel, which is what what they're after. But, yeah, they don't want us to leave yet. And it's and it's clear that they don't because they would never have allowed bases that close. And I I imagine when Galani is um assassinated, which is probably what will happen at some point in time, uh we'll put a base in Syria, too, if we can get away with it. Now, you know, the Russians have maintained their base in Tardis, the port there.
>> So, it'll be interesting to see uh what all happens. Um, again, we're thinking like an empire in our country and or our government thinks like an empire. We are an empire in rapid decline. We've been in slow decline for a long time. Now we're in rapid decline. We um are not trusted. We say things that aren't true and everybody knows that they're not true, you know. Um, oh, buy American Treasury bills. We'll pay our debt. Well, wait a minute. Will we? You know, and all the major buyers are all hedging their bets against the United States. And it's not just bricks. It's everybody who is thinking about the future is thinking, well, should I put all my eggs in the American basket? You know, 50 years ago, that was not a bad idea. Today, it's a terrible idea and people aren't doing it. So, uh, this is what we're watching. And it's it's frustrating because you you feel like I think people that are aware that our country needs to do better. It needs to maybe be a republic. Um maybe they don't think we're an empire, but they still think we should be a little bit different. How do you do that? You can elect all the people you want and they're they don't listen to anything. They they they become part of the system, part of the problem. So, uh, it's it's really frustrating, but again, this is where we are. But yeah, we're losing all of our wars. Okay, we're losing them. Don't Daniel Davis is right. all the people that are looking at the military numbers. Um, you know, we're losing them. And then you could say, well, but we have nukes. Well, okay.
>> If you want to really lose big and really go down in history as the worst president ever, uh, yeah, he can use nukes. You heard about what happened, right? Uh, some time ago, he got Trump wanted to use a nuke.
>> Oh, yes.
>> And it was it was uh the the story has it. I think Larry Johnson tells it um it was uh General Kaine, you know, the top general in there kind of diffused the situation. I don't know exactly how, but apparently they got him out of the room before he made some sort of order that they would have had to reject. So that's crazy. That's what we're dealing with.
>> That is absolutely insane. Karen, thank you so much for this conversation. Um, and I really do hope that you come back for a new one because I know the audience is going to absolutely love this and uh I would love to connect with you again to continue the conversation.
>> Well, hopefully we'll it'll grand they will come again tomorrow and we can maybe we can move on a path of peace and other things because you know Trump is increasingly I'll just say one thing because I'm I'm writing an article and I was I was you know we had the death of Lindsey Graham, right?
>> Yes.
>> And um that's it's pretty interesting all that but Trump had an interview right afterwards on pre meet the meet the press right so a major state co-opted media outlet and they and he talk she's on the phone with Trump and she goes what uh he doesn't say anything about his war stuff says nothing about he says what will she says what will Graham be remembered for and Trump said I think the thing he will be remembered the most for is his or what I will remember him for is his um adamant support for Brett Kavanaaugh when Kavanaaugh went through his um uh Supreme Court uh uh what is it the ratification or whatever his approval of this by the Senate because you know there was a lot of accusations and that's what he remembered you know that happened 12 years ago 12 years ago that happened this is this is even before uh we did the first coup in Madan I mean you know with under under uh u I guess Obama was the president Then anyway, uh, so it's very strange. It's very strange where Trump's mind is because he's not on foreign policy. It is not on foreign policy. I think he wants Iran to go away. I think he that's why he signed the MOU. He wants it to go away. It didn't go away, but I think he still wants it to go away. So, I'm hopeful that that it will. The problem is, um, he's more scared of the American people now. He's more scared of this election cycle that's happening. Um, and he's a little bit scared of Israel because they don't want him to do what he wants to do. I think Trump wants to pull out of the Middle East. I think when he said that in the past and he said that on the campaign trail when he said it, I think he meant it. And um he's he's being pressed to do something he doesn't want to do. So Trump is unpredictable. He's under a lot of stress. So we'll see. But it could come out that no nukes. He actually puts America first for the first time in 18 months. he will put America first and end this uh end these hostilities. Pull our troops back and focus on America, which he's going to have to do. Whether he does it before November or he has to do it next spring with the new Congress and new Senate, I don't know. But um there is hope. There's hope that uh that Trump truly is not happy with, um this war that he has started, that he has been talked into starting, that he has been talked into and pressured into continuing. So, I'll I'll leave on that. That's a good note. That's a happy note. Like Trump may be closer to leaving the Middle East than we thought. Of course, the problem is if he really is, then he'll probably get assassinated.
>> Oh my goodness.
>> Which is not not an ideal situation. So, but I'm I'm a little bit hopeful. Groundhog Day tomorrow we'll wake up and maybe things will be better than they are today.
>> Yes. And you mentioned you're writing an article. Where can our viewers read your articles?
>> Yeah, I Lou Rockwell post them. Uh, Judge Knap post them, but I put everything on the substack. And I try to share interviews. Uh, but I'm not consistent about sharing them. But I will put this one on. I will I've shared your last one. I'll share this one, too. Um, but yeah, my Substack is Karen Katowski. It's Substack. Easy to find. Um, and I'm I don't write excessively, but um, uh, because I'm actually running on like a week and a half now, and I should I try to do something every week, but it has I have to be, uh, properly motivated,
>> right?
>> So, I've got something uh that I'll have out probably tomorrow. But, um but yeah, I mean there's there's hope. There's hope. It's never hopeless. Nothing is ever hopeless. We we think we when it looks most hopeless, it's cuz we're not seeing something that we should see that it's probably right in front of us. So, um uh you know, there's there's hope even though right now depressing.
>> Yes. Well, I will link your Substack in the description below and I highly highly recommend our viewers go check it out. become a subscriber and support Karen's work. Karen, thank you so much. This was an absolute privilege to host you.
>> Well, thank you. It's great talking to you.