Successful Malpractice Lawsuit for Benzodiazepine Injury | Interview with Kathi Donald

Okay, hello. Hi, I'm Joseph. Withduring, and, uh, today we have a very special guest here. Uh, we've got Kathy, who is joining us. And, um, um, we are going to talk about a, uh, lawsuit that we were recently in together. Uh, Kathy, as, as the plaintiff, um, who had a benzodiazepine injury, um, which, uh, we both considered, uh, settled successfully, you know, with, uh, you know, uh, with, uh, settlement, uh, way into the six figures. Um, that was pretty much unheard of. Well, I haven't heard of a lot of other people get these results. And so I assist Kathy as an expert witness. And I just think the, the story is very interesting because it kind of goes into the medical legal aspects of, I mean, what, what can you do if something like this happens to you? And, uh, and it's, and Kathy's just wonderful as well. So it's great to kind of hear her experience, what happened to her, and, and why she decided to take this to a lawyer and pursue a large healthcare system, um, for, uh, monetary damages. So without further ado, I'm going to turn it over to Kathy, just to introduce herself quickly.

Hi, Joseph. Um, hello, everyone. I'm Kathy Old. And, um, I was previously a Pediatric Intensive Care nurse for many, many years. And I'm going to go ahead and just tell you a little bit about my story, about how we came here. Is that okay?

Yep. Yeah.

I, um, you know, in 2020, when COVID was going on, I, um, I wasn't, I wasn't sleeping very well. It was just like everyone else. It was just a, you know, an anxious time for everybody. Um, I went to my physician and, uh, let her know I wasn't sleeping. And, you know, I asked her, can you, can you give me something for sleep? And she said, she had a, a safe, excuse me, my words are still, don't come to me, everybody. I'm two and a half years out and I still struggle a little bit. So if I pause or if I stumble a little bit, I apologize. But, um, I'm much better now. Um, you know, so I went to her and just asked her for something to help me sleep. I actually asked for a medical marijuana card. I'd never done anything like that, but in fact, everybody else was, or why not? But she decided she'd rather see me on a safe sleep alternative, which she prescribed Restoril, which I thought was a safe sleep alternative. So I took that for about six months and then I started having some issues, issues with forgetfulness. Um, gosh, you know, I, what helped me to sleep was no longer helping me to sleep. Um, I had, uh, I felt somewhat manic. I just couldn't go to sleep. So I called her and she said, oh, it looks like you're probably, um, dependent on this medication. It shouldn't have been prescribed this long. And so that was my first thing, like, oh my gosh, this was a safe sleep alternative that I thought was going to be the magic thing for ever. And it lasted with me for about five to six months before I started seeing symptoms of this wasn't working anymore. So of course, I don't have addictive tendencies. I've never taken, uh, or, you know, off anything without a prescription. I'm not, I don't have drug issues. So I thought, well, I'll just, you know, I'm going to stop taking it. And so, um, one of her, one of my doctor's associates suggested I take it like every 30 days or something, two to three days. And so I weaned myself off very quickly, not knowing that that was the, the, the worst thing you could ever do. And so from that moment on, that, that's how this, this, my story became.

And I, I just want to add there, um, um, I mean, you, you really didn't have any guidance on how to wean. Because I remember looking in the medical records and there were some notes in there saying, oh, just, you know, take a dose every, every other day, you know? Yes. You know, something like that. But there was no real, I guess, what, uh, we would consider comprehensive and probably appropriate benzodiazepine tapering guidance. Like, okay, we're gonna drop by, you know, five to ten percent and we'll see how you're doing. If it's, if we're going too fast, we'll slow down.

To be even, I am a Pediatric Intensive Care nurse. And, and I know people, some, some people find this dumbfounding. I didn't know I was on a benzo. Let's start there. I was on a Restoril, a safe sleep alternative. In the pediatric world, we don't deal with benzos or those. We do, but prescribe doses of, you know, sedation things like that. So I didn't even know what I was on. And so for me, I had no, no guidance on how to come off of it. Well, if I shouldn't be on it, if it's causing these things, I'll just stop taking it. And, you know, my doctor did not say, oh, let's not do that. Let's do, let's take a taper. There was no mention of any taper. And, and I became damaged very quickly within two to three weeks. I was non-functional.

Yeah. And, and I, I will probably say as well, the, the physician that prescribed this to you also seems that, uh, that she wasn't really quite sure what she was working with or really had the knowledge about it. Because,

That's correct. She said that she said that if this didn't work for me, then we would get with a psychiatrist who could then prescribe a benzodiazepines. And so for me, that, that, you know, when people say, how could you not know? I'm like, well, I was told this is a safe alternative to a benzo, whatever benzo was at that time. And well-versed now that I had no clue then that her comments were, we'll get with a psychiatrist and go on a benzo. And so that was the first inkling that I had that, that she didn't really know what she was prescribing either or how to, how to get, how to take me off of it correctly.

And I think the interesting thing, um, from a medical legal perspective, specifically with the medication you were taking, which is Restoril, um, right there in the indication. Now, this is, um, you know, when an FDA allows a drug to be marketed, you know, there's, uh, it says what for. And for Restoril, it's, you know, for the treatment of insomnia for up to 14 days. Um, or there's, and then there's guidance in there, if the insomnia hasn't resolved in 14 days, refer them for additional assessment. So that was really where the, um, I guess you could say, our leverage came from. You know, if there was something that was going to be medical negligence, it was the fact that it was started and it was not reassessed and it was just kind of continued. And I mean, it was continually prescribed for six, six months, six to seven months. And, um, and then, and then when I was having the, the issues, I can't remember the term that it's called. I mean, I'm in withdrawal, but I'm still taking it.

Tolerance. Yeah.

I developed a tolerance to it. And again, it still wasn't even told to me. She, I really don't believe she knew at that point that that this was what was happening to me. The symptoms I was referring to her, she, you know, immediately said, well, you need to go to a psychiatrist. There's something wrong with you. Well, yeah, I wasn't, I was in severe withdrawal at that time.

So let's, let's talk about that. I mean, this is, it's probably difficult to, to revisit what was one of the most painful experiences you've ever been through. But just describe what happened in the month and a half, I guess, after you tapered the medication. Well, what were the symptoms that you developed when, when I first stopped taking it or taking it every three days or every two days and every three days? I weaned myself off in about two weeks. I'm still working full time as a Pediatric Intensive Care nurse during COVID, which we were being called to adult floors and having to do tasks that weren't our normal. And it was, there was nothing normal about what was happening at the hospital. And I, I couldn't even remember to turn off the water in the sink type person. So I was having a really tough time. That was my first part. I was, um, I'd sit my phone down and then go on into work and then realize two hours later, I didn't have my phone. I was having horrible balance issues. Um, the people on my floor, I'm one of the, I was one of the older pediatric nurses that people came to for advice or needed things. And I had these young kids telling me that I was making mistakes and I didn't even realize I was making mistakes. I would tell them, you know, just because I don't do it your way doesn't mean, you know, but it was hard for me to even understand that I wasn't myself. I was a walking zombie going through this. I hadn't slept. I probably hadn't slept in three weeks at one time. I was totally manic for about three weeks. And then, um, one of my managers who's with, you know, my department was very, um, gentle with me because of the respect that they did have for me at that time. But, you know, one of them said, you've got to get off the floor. You're going to hurt somebody. And I kept saying, I'm fine. And they're like, you're not fine. So anyway, once, once I took, I called my doctor and I asked her and she said, well, let's give you a week off. You know, here's a non-functional person. They gave me a week off. And, um, to be honest with you, I never went back as an RN after that first week off. I just, I was, I was, I was in severe, severe withdrawal. As in, um, like you've talked and other people have gone through, the severe restless legs was the worst part. You know, I've got the list of things here from, from my notes. I mean, you had severe restless legs, almost like in the stabbing pains were the worst, the electrical shocks that I was going through, the walking around the house at all hours of the night, not being able to sleep, not being able to get my legs to stop firing. Um, to me, there were little electrical jolts. You know, I couldn't lay down. Um, and just, it was awful. The joint pain that I had. I had severe joint pain anywhere I'd ever had an injury before. My hips, my hips just felt like they had daggers in them. And I could feel every joint in my toes and in my hands. Um, that's how my manifesto was mainly joint, joint pain. Um, trying to find someone to help me is the next topic. You know, I have all these symptoms, complete insomnia, balance issues, falling. I had very severe falls that now, or, you know, it's like, oh my gosh, these were going on for about a month before I even was in full withdrawal, like falling out of a car, you know, and my dad going, oh my gosh, what happened? I'm like, well, I missed a step, I guess. You know, and severe falls, bruises, cuts. Um, the balance issues are still there. But I mean, they were, I should not have been on the floor working. But anyway, once I got off work, um, finding someone to help me. The doctor that I was going to.

Let's, let's take a pause there because I want to go through more of your symptoms because I think that'll be interesting. Then we're going to pick up there, okay?

All right. Um, um, you had, you had mild tinnitus. I, I, you know, before it had never interfered with your job, but when you went into withdrawal, it was deafening, right?

For several months. Yeah. Tinnitus, um, along with the restless legs. So for me, to even think about laying down, there was no quiet in my head. The tinnitus was, and mine was in the form of more of a pulsating. It was my heartbeat in my head continuously. I had it on the top of the head and I did have it in my right ear. And so for anyone who's suffering from that, I, I, I, you know, I reach out to you. It's just so painful. You can't function. You can't even think straight. If you can't get the noise out of your head, you know, it becomes a joke. Then there's the noise in my head bothering you because it was really bothering me. Yeah.

You know, other things that really stuck out to me from your case was you had a lot of problems, um, well, there's a couple of things actually, um, though, you know, you used to be able to, I guess, ride a bicycle. You know, used to be able to knock a car out. There were all of these things that had to do with depth perception. It was very difficult to judge how close you were to objects. And, you know, and since talking to you about that, I've actually asked some of my other patients, then they experienced the same thing. But I thought that was a quite an interesting, an interesting symptom, which is how off balance you were and how bad the depth of deception was.

The depth perception was awful. And that had a lot to do with not being able to ride a bike, number one. I had no balance. But number two, I couldn't tell how close my foot was to the ground, like to stop and get off my bike. I had bruises on my knees and my hands because I think a closet door was a foot away when it was right there on top of me. Um, in cars, I had to ride with my hands over my eyes because I felt like the cars were coming right at me or they were right beside me when they were probably, you know, a significant five, six feet away. So the depth perception, and I'm sure you'll hear a lot about it if you do ask, was was one of the most debilitating things that I had.

Yeah. And then the other thing, because I mean, you were working, I guess, I don't know. I, from my recollection, it felt like at least 60 hours a week. I mean, you were a very seasoned, uh, travel pediatric nurse. You would come in. I mean, I've, I've seen your earning statements. You're making more than most, most doctors, you know, at the time that this happened to you. I mean, with the amount you were working and everything. And so the cognitive impairment, I mean, you, you're used to running to rooms, looking after several patients at a time, you know, people telling you, being able to remember those things, you know, act on them, this kind of very fast-paced, chaotic environment. And, and I mean, how, I mean, you, you kind of already mentioned it, but but it all fell apart. There was, there was no ability to kind of organize and plan things. I mean, even when we were scheduling our meetings, I mean, we had some errors with just doing simple time adjustments because you're on the East Coast and I was here on the Mountain Time Zone. And just so simple, you know, cognitive tasks became really challenging during that time.

I recall time, different time zones. I could not grasp it. Meeting times, I cannot grasp it. I could not grasp that five o'clock my time was two o'clock your time. I would think it was eight o'clock your time. And then I would show up at eight o'clock and you weren't there. Or, you know, just, this went on, not just with you, it was just, I could not do time. I could, I could not do time for at least a year and a half.

Yeah. I, I could not do time change. Imagine me trying to do pediatric dosing. Yeah. You know, when I couldn't do times. I had some wonderful nurses beside me. You know, I, I looked at one gentleman, I said, I know I'm gonna need your help. He said, what do you need? I said, I, I've got a diabetic kid coming in and I can't even, you know, it was awful. You would have to do my calculations for me and triple. I said, anyone who's double-checking medicine with me, make sure you're triple-checking because I, I, I just, I was struggling to do basic math.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and for those that may not be aware, I mean, when you're working with pediatrics, it's one of the most challenging populations because everything is, it's either done by weight, body surface area, and there's a lot of really challenging calculations that you do to make sure that the medication is correct. And, and so there's a huge kilograms per milligram, you know, milligrams per kilogram. Um, it is, that's that's tough. And for me, who couldn't, at that time, do any, I couldn't do time change, I couldn't do anything with numbers. Everything was transposed. And that was what pulled me off the floor. You know, when I knew I was, I, I couldn't take an admission that I could take normally for 20 years with my eyes closed. You know, I went to a friend and said, I'm going to need your help because, you know, when, when a diabetic child comes in, it's all about dosing their insulin. It's all in a wrong dose of insulin can kill a child. And so, you know, when your main tool is gone, and you've got to ask people, I'm going to need your help to triple check, it's really scary. It was, it was, it was a bad place. It was a bad place for my employer and for me. You know, I had people that respected me, but yet I wouldn't say to them, some, you know, I didn't want to talk about what was going through. I didn't know what I was going through. I didn't know what was wrong with me. I really had no clue. And so, um, the best thing for me to do was to get off the floor.

Yeah. Yeah. It's lucky they were so understanding. I mean, I've had some people tell me that people thought they were on drugs or they were intoxicated when they noticed how, how cognitively impaired they were. Um, I think I was so confident that there was nothing wrong with me that they had a hard time, you know, they didn't want to believe it either. You know, and I had, I had, uh, two managers at the time who had been long-time friends. I've worked with one at Cincinnati Children's many years ago, and I worked with one when I first went to this employer 15 years prior to that. And so these are people who've known me to be a very successful, very seasoned, um, Pediatric Intensive Care nurse. And so it was hard for them to admit too, you know, when I finally said, I'm making mistakes. And, you know, I just, they're just like, we got to get you off the floor without anyone really knowing what's, what's happening here. Let's just get you off the floor. And so that, that's that's how it ended up happening. I could not, I could no longer do my job, let alone function on my own.

So let's, let's, uh, let's go back to where we were going just, just a moment ago, where you were mentioning, I guess, your experience getting this recognized or your experience with treatment providers after the the bottom fell out and you've developed all of these symptoms. What was that like?

Well, I was on my own for about three weeks. Referral to psych, thriving primary doctor, and that took forever to get in. So finally, by the time I got in to see a psychiatrist, which is all virtual because we're going through COVID, um, he, he explained to my, my partner, my spouse, Rick, he explained to him what was going on. And neither one of us had a clue. We had no idea it was when, it was, I was in withdrawal. We had no idea that it was from coming off this medication too quickly. Um, I remember Rick asking the doctor, look, she hasn't slept in three weeks. I don't care what we have to do. We just have to get her rest. Her body cannot keep going like three weeks without sleep. And that, that's not an exaggeration. Even though I can't tell time and I can't judge things, I just know it was a very long time. It was on August. I left work in July, and it was mid-August before someone said to me, here's what's happening. He said, I want, and I was, I had a seizure the night before my meeting with him, somewhat of a seizure. We're not sure what it was. Um, Rick was having to help me bathe. He was having to remind me to eat, to get dressed. I couldn't function. And so when we talked to the psychiatrist, he said, I want you to take her to the emergency room. And so he did. We took him to, he said, I want you to go and I want you to tell them that you're in withdrawal from a benzodiazepine. Well, I'm sure there's a bunch of you out there who know this, they basically laughed at me. It was, it was so humiliating. I'm in a room as a nurse with these emergency room nurses. Rick's not allowed back with me. And so I'm already disheveled and not able to to talk clearly, you know, find my words and describe what's happening. And I told him I'd come off of a benzo three weeks or four weeks prior. And they're just like, well, you shouldn't be in withdrawal by now. And I was, I was shamed. I was poo-pooed and said, this, this isn't happening. They gave me a, and they gave me a prescription for Vistaril and said, short of admitting me into a psychiatric ward, there was nothing they could do to help me. They're, you know, the withdrawal doesn't last this long. So the word withdrawal wasn't taken well by them, received well. And so they did send me out with a prescription of Vistaril. And I remember going home and calling the psychiatrist and him saying, I mean, I need you to listen to me because I'm all you've got now, you know, because I could not find anyone to help me, you know. And, um, so anyway, he, he pretty much gave me three options at that time. I, I probably wish I had done the first option, but mine was to just, um, change, change medications. You know, the three options, I don't know if anyone else has gotten them, were to go back on a benzo and then titrate down later. I was also told that I could just stay cold turkey, which wasn't working. And then the, the mistake I made was I went with, let's try other medications. And so I spent the next year weaning on and off of those medications.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the, and, um, and I'm trying to recall, um, when you met with the psychiatrist, I mean, he, at least entertained that it was a benzo injury from, from what I recall and diagnosis.

When I read my notes, I was diagnosed as severe, severe benzo withdrawal. I mean, he had a diagnosis code for it. I can't remember what it was at the time, but yeah, he, he was, that's exactly what's happened here, and we've got to, we've got three ways we can fix it, you know, but you gotta, you gotta do what I ask you to do because I was at this point, borderline seizing at night, um, manic, absolutely manic.

Yeah. And then I, I think, um, um, I mean, the other thing that, that was interesting was, you know, there were a lot of things in there, you know, you, I think he thought you had a diagnosis of bipolar disorder. I remember seeing that a lot in there. And then his notes rolled it out. He hasn't seen anyone at that point. I was in my 50s. He said, I haven't, never seen anyone in their 50s being diagnosed with bipolar. So, you know, probably let's rule that out. You know, because I had the manic part of it. Depression hadn't set in, or I wasn't, I wasn't manic. I mean, I wasn't bipolar. I was, I was totally manic. I could not go to sleep to save my life. Couldn't go to sleep. And so, um, eventually in his notes, he does admit that, let's roll that out because, you know, it just doesn't add up. And it was also pretty, I mean, you know, while he did give you the diagnosis, I also remember reading in there that, you know, there was, there were other differentials in there. And then, you know, there wasn't anything in there about, I guess, protracted withdrawal or bind, or whatever you want to call it, because even, I think the chronicity and how long it kept on going, I think there were still something. Then his notes changed that this could be anything to do with them. And so, and I don't know if it was his attorneys telling him how he could talk to me about it. And, you know, him, he was in the same practice as the other physician. So I don't know if I don't know if he was, um, you know, let's, let's don't make such a big deal about this being benzo withdrawal. You know, because all of a sudden, then after, like say October, he's like, there's no way that could be this. This is going on way too long. We've got something else. We've got something else going on here. And so that's when his notes and his tune kind of changed. And so then it forced me to look outside of that practice for help. Because that, that practice that I was in became pretty protected. You know, I had a therapist with them. They also put me with a therapist who, who was limited to what she could tell me. Um, I had one therapist that was let go for my case. Wasn't even able to say she wasn't going to be my therapist anymore because of some notes that she wrote that were saying validation would go a long way to help Kathy. And of course, she wasn't able, they weren't able to validate it.

Sure. I know this is a little confusing to people, but yeah. Well, I think I was going to say, this might be a good segue to talk about when did you decide that you wanted to take legal action? Because, uh, I guess a lot of people, this, this happens and they don't really, uh, I guess they don't go down this path. So, uh, I'd like you to talk a little bit about when that, when that arose and then, you know, pursued that.

Well, I was very angry. I have, I have a great, I had a great job. I have a golden ticket. I loved my job. I loved my salary. I loved everything about my life at that time. And for that to be just taken away. I didn't have just a mediocre job. Like you said, I was making more than physicians. And it doesn't matter how much you make or, you know, it took away what I loved doing. I am a pediatric nurse who works with families of dying children. And it's a vocation, it's not a job. And so for that to be, that to be taken away from me, or to be told that this medication could not have caused all this, it lights a fire in you. It's like, wait a minute. I was fine not sleeping well, but I was fine before I started on this safe sleep medicine, and now I'm not. So I was getting angry. And so I had to reach out. And then the next step, which everyone's going to run into, is finding people who will actually understand your diagnosis and have the wherewithal to help.

Tell us about that. How did you find a lawyer? Because I know Hoyt, Hoyt Hart was not your first stop. I, I think he was found by someone. Yeah. Tell us about that process of finding a lawyer and what you did.

What I did was, it was, yeah, I just, I looked into it. How to sue? You know, what lawyers would take this type of case? Basically, a medical malpractice case. So I'm prescribed a medication, they didn't know that they were prescribing, and someone took me up or did not guide me into taking me off of it properly, which caused me to be non-functional. This dysfunctional, non-functional, you know, a little bit dysfunctional, but there were times when I was non-functional for months. And so that angered me. I typed up a few letters and sent them out to a few people, and nobody, nobody, nobody. And this whole time, I'm still trying to find doctors. I don't have a doctor. I don't have anyone to support me. I don't, I'm not working. You know, I'm, I've got my lifestyle based around six figures plus or, you know, $200,000 plus a year. And the bills are still coming in, but I'm not working. You know, the money's not coming back. And so it was very frustrating. I was angry. How could this have happened? And so it wasn't until, um, somehow I, this, this things that I had read, Hoyt Hart and Kyle Jones had been successful prior to these malpractice suits, not a benzo injury, but they've had successful malpractice suits against my physicians. And so I sent a letter to them. And when Kyle and Hoyt called me back, I about cried. You know, and Hoyt said he was familiar, that he'd know, he knew someone else that this has happened to. So it wasn't a matter of, I don't believe what's happening to you. It's just, you know, things that people need to know about a lawsuit. There's a time frame. You, you have a believing say to California, you only have six months. I wish I knew my facts, but it's a very short window of time that you can, that you can sue a provider for medical malpractice. And so I was within that time frame. And that's why they wanted to get going sooner. They didn't want me to miss that window. Even though I'm still trying to heal at this time or trying to find out what happened to me and trying to get help. Um, Hoyt and Kyle were on the other end saying, we think we can help you. And they were also great about trying to help me find physicians that could help me. They tried. You know, I'm, needless to say, I was in a different state than where the injury occurred. And so I reached out. The only person I found that, even on the internet, just doing a Google search, helped me. You know, this was Jennifer Lee, um, Dr. Jennifer Lee. I'm not sure if you're familiar with her or not.

I am. Yeah. Okay.

Well, she, if you will Google by state, people that can help you through this, her name kept coming up and coming up. I made an appointment with her. And I remember the first appointment with her was nothing but crying. She heard me. She, she understood what was going on with me. She's a therapist. She's not a doctor, so she couldn't help me in that way, but she could look at me and say, look, you're gonna get better. Here's what's happening to you. And she, I met with her twice a week for quite a while to even grasp what was happening to me. And so the thing that these people come up with while you're trying to do a lawsuit, you're probably still trying to get better. And so to reach out and try to find people, Jennifer Lee was one of the first people who embraced me and, you know, just, just let me tell her my story and not be judged. To find a practitioner who's going to not judge you when you say you have, you've been withdrawn from a benzo and you're having these symptoms. The looks that you get, and the doors that were closed on me. I don't know how many times I walked out of a doctor's office just going, oh my gosh, this guy just told me that he couldn't help me, that, that I had bigger problems than, you know, than what I was claiming. And they make you, I felt, I felt just were disallowed or I felt unheard. You know, and these, your regular lay physicians, and the older they are, not to knock anyone who's older, they, they just haven't had the retraining. They haven't, they're all set in their ways.

Yeah. Yeah. They are. And benzos aren't harmful. We've been prescribing them for years.

Well, sure, you have. But you've been misprescribing them for years also. And you've been damaging people for years also. And so to even get to doctors that have a different mindset, few and far between. And then they just think that you're, uh, you know, you're maybe your, your medication seeking as well. Is, how, you know, that that medication seeking was the big thing. The guy says, what drugs are you looking for? I said, I don't want any drugs. I just want you to listen to me and help me. You know, when they sent me home from the emergency room with Vistaril, I just looked at the other nurse and they said, they think you're drug seeking. I said, you've got to be kidding me. At least he was a respectful nurse, nurse to nurse. Hey, you think you're drug seeking here. This is all they can do for you. It's either that or get admitted on a hold where you can't get out.

Yeah. Didn't they try and, you know, they brought up, or maybe we'll send you to like a detox as well, which is completely inappropriate and, you know, not the treatment that you needed at that time.

Correct. Correct. So I would, I would also advise people to, I'm not saying one way is better than the other. A bit of detox, they also come off very quickly too. So you really have to do your research as to what physicians are educated enough to help you through this. I went through six or seven who weren't. And I was on a medication roller coaster, six months of this, six months of that. You know, I'm still, I'm still on medication that I, I need someone to help me wean off of, but I'm just now plateauing to where I'm ready to decrease the dose too. And so it's not like once you come off these benzos, you never take any medicine again. Every doctor is going to try to prescribe you something.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the, the whole story is so typical of, um, what, what pretty, a lot of people encounter. I mean, if you go into an emergency room, you know, and you have a problem and it's something that can't be fixed with just like, okay, we're going to admit you, we're going to send you to a rehab, or we're going to write you a medication, they really struggle with what to do. I mean, there's really these set courses. And, and you kind of got all of that. It was, okay, we're going to send you to detox. We'll just give you this. Kind of, I don't really know what to do. You know, see you later. And, um, that happens more often than not. I, I got very lucky. I got very lucky. I was, I didn't have a primary care in, in my town. I got very lucky. I got a, not a young, a fairly young, new doctor who said that they, they were taught in college about abruptly stopping a benzo. So he was familiar. Had he ever had a patient that had that? No. But he was willing to learn. And he was willing to send me to the right people to try to help me. So I've, I was fairly, fairly lucky. Nine months after my withdrawal, nine months. It seems like it's not fast, but trying, crawling around, trying to find doctors, trying to get validation, trying to finally found someone who sent me to a clinic that helped me to get this. And it was just, just by luck, by sheer luck, that someone mentioned this to this to this. And so, even if you Google in your state, which doctors can help with benzo withdrawal, you're going to have maybe five, maybe two. Some states don't have any. And I'm talking about the benzo information coalition. Yep. That Jennifer Lee also talked to me about that. So that's a big resource for people. It's a benzo information coalition. And it sounds pretty cult-like, but, but it's a, it's a valid, it's happening. It's the best place.

Yeah. It's the best place to go for resources and for them to guide you to get the help that you need.

I was going to say, um, um, now, so, so after you pursued, uh, this legal action with Hoyt, tell us a little bit about your experience because, I mean, you had to meet with, um, experts from the defense. You know, you had to go and take neuropsychiatric testing and be interviewed by these people, which were trying to discredit that you had an injury. Tell us a little bit about that process and how challenging that was.

Yeah, within a lawsuit, you know, of course, they, they're going to do everything they can to try to prove their side. And for their side, they, they sent me on two different neurological tests, which showed I was cognitively on their tests, I was cognitively normal. Um, a few people said that I had some spatial difficulties, a few things here and there, but nobody would actually say, she's damaged. Okay. So I had to keep fighting. And my attorneys hung in there with me, even though I was getting these negative, negative, she's fine, she's fine, she's fine. No, I'm not. And it wasn't, I don't know what the turning point was, you know, um, that, that really when they started paying attention, because I, I had, like you said, I had depositions with psychiatrists. I had depositions with neurologists. I had, um, deposition with a forensic, um, psychiatrist, things like that. And, and then, and they all showed deficits, but no one could say this was from benzo withdrawal. And so that's what most people are going to come up against is finding. And it's not like I searched until I found someone. I searched until they were able to bring out what actually happened to me.

And, and I recall, because, because this was, you know, when I was brought into your case, and it was very late, that's, that's what Hoyt had asked me to do. He said, you know, we have, you know, we have this client, you know, she's, she's having these neuropsychological tests that are showing that she's normal. We need someone to, you know, to speak to the validity of the tests and whether, you know, they're fit for purpose in identifying a test like this. And I mean, essentially, the, um, the, um, I mean, the, the tests were not valid. I mean, you were being tested on on, um, scales that were, you know, used in dementia, you know, a completely different kind of, um, clinical deterioration. The, the scales that we're using were fairly coarse. They did not have the resolution to pick up on someone that had, um, really, uh, fine cognitive dysfunction, like, like you did. Because I mean, um, while you weren't able to do things in that really fast-paced environment, you could do very simple clerical and administrative work, which I believe is what you were doing while they were making accommodations. So you were still testing really well. Well, not really well. I mean, you were testing in a range that was normal. And by normal, I mean, you know, not someone that had pre-dementia or some kind of evolving dementia. So the scales were completely off.

Yeah. I tested normal for the tests they were giving me. And so what they weren't testing for was the biggest thing that was wrong with me was the neurosensitivity. You know, they weren't, they weren't testing me with, you know, noises in the background, which, you know, mine has. My main issues are neurosensitivity to this day. Sights, sounds, pain, everything I have is times 10. I still watch. No, I don't watch the news. It's too violent for me. You know, there's still things that, that I, I still have to protect myself. And those were things they couldn't test for. You know, they weren't testing me with bright lights in my eyes. They weren't testing me with alarms going off. Um, you know, the things that my deficits were not on these cognitive tests. And so that's how it's hard to, it's hard to test for someone in our position who's down to these, you know, the, the stomach burning and the restless legs and this, and all those things. I had those physical symptoms, which they were medicating before. You know, they medicated me for restless legs and medicated me for this, but yet, but yet cognitively, I was still able to carry on a conversation and pass these tests. You know.

Oh, yeah. And if you're in a quiet room and, um, you're sitting down and doing a test, and it's just silence, you can do well. But as soon as, you know, you're in the Pediatric ICU, where the monitors are beeping at you, and you're walking to a patient's room, and someone's saying, hey, Cassidy, by the way, bed two, they need this done. You know, and there's noises and there's lights. I mean, the whole benzodiazepine injury, it's this, you know, this flooding, disregulated sensations, which may in part be be part of the reason why people have such significant cognitive impairment, is is that their brain is just being flooded by disordered, uh, you know, sensation from whether it's their eyes, their ears, or their body, which is not functioning.

I remember, I mean, you even mentioned, yeah, you struggled going to restaurants. You know, if there were too many people talking in a restaurant, you couldn't go. You know, grocery stores, the, the lights from a grocery store. Yeah. You know, just that type of lighting in a store, not maybe just a grocery store, but any store. The lighting was just too much for me. You know, driving and hearing, um, a whooshing car come up beside me. I didn't, I didn't drive for a long time. I do drive now, but for the first year, I did not drive. And I'm sure a lot of people who are in withdrawal also have the same, the same issues. But you can't test for those on a cognitive test, is what is what we're kind of getting at. And so for the, the lawyers on the other side, they're saying, she's fine. She's, she's making this up. There's nothing wrong with her. And, and you have to, I knew there was something wrong with me. I knew I wasn't able to do my job. I knew that I couldn't drive a car. I knew that I couldn't ride my bike. I knew that I couldn't go into a store without, and I still to this day, and maybe just a symptom to me, other people, I grunt. It's like, oh gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. I have to grunt myself down to to calm myself. I've learned a lot over the years. What helps me. And if anyone's struggling with this, just closing your eyes will help you. Just closing your eyes will take away a lot of sensory that's coming at you. So if you're in an overwhelming place, just, those, those are like I said, those are things they can't test for. I'm closing my eyes so that I can get through this moment. You know, but, but that's not on a cognitive test either.

I mean, yeah, it, it made me worry about how frequently they're using these tests not for their intended scientific purpose. Because, you know, you talk to anyone that does clinical research, and, you know, you know, tests, you know, the test has to be fit for purpose. And essentially, what you would do if you were going to make a cognitive test to pick up benzodiazepine withdrawal, at least the way they do it in the pharmaceutical industry, is you get a bunch of doctors together, 10 of them, or something like that. And you have a round table. You know, what are the most common symptoms? They list them out. And then you would make a questionnaire. And then you would start testing that questionnaire to see if it was well understood. Um, and then, you know, you'd come up with some questions that are actually tailored to it. You know, do you have a hard time concentrating in, you know, chaotic environments with lots of lights? You would go through all of these things that are actually specific to the illness, because you'd know them, because you spoke to people who are skilled in assessing it. And that's how you develop the test. And they just gave you an off-the-shelf dementia test. You know, or off the shelf was just, you know, it was just for the general population, just to test cognitive functioning. And then they would hold this thing up and they would say, oh, she's normal. You know, look at this. There's nothing to see here. I mean, and it was, it was terrible.

Well, and that's when, when, if you are going through with a lawsuit, you just have to keep persevering. You know, I wasn't going to give up. I wasn't going to give up. I wasn't going to give up a job that I loved and a career that I loved and just, and just take it. You just, you know, um, it's not fair when I know that this was caused. This was this was done to me. You know, um, and someone needs to pay attention. Benzos are horrible drugs. Horrible drugs. And, and they prescribe them like M&Ms. They really do.

Act like these are just you. Go in for this, you know? You get antidepressant. You got a young mom who goes in postpartum. Oh, let's put her on antidepressants. You know, you've got an older person who can't sleep. Let's put them on benzos. It's just, it's just the way of the world, and and that's what's got to change.

The lawsuit that I have is, is I, I don't want to say unprecedented, but there's very few successful because people give up, because people won't keep fighting and keep fighting, keep fighting. Um, eventually they're going to have to say, and that's what happened with my lawsuit. It did not go to a trial. We ended up settling because we came back with everything they came at me with. We came back with, "No, this is how it really is." "No, this is how it really is." And I, I remember, I just want to add in there, I mean, when I was being deposed, and I was deposed for eight hours, you know, they would say things like, like, "Look at this medical record. It says here that the tinnitus has gotten better. It says that she's feeling better." And then two months later, you know, you're complaining of tinnitus again, and the symptoms up, up, up again. And they're saying, "These aren't the same things." You know, because for them, it's withdrawal is linear. And so this is fine. Uh, you know, she's recovered at this point because she's not complaining anymore. But they weren't accounting for the waves and the windows. And so that's kind of like this back and forth that we had where it was like, you know, "As you can see, this doesn't fit benzo withdrawal." But then, you know, I'm there saying, "Well, actually, if you look at these publications out there, this kind of, you know, ebb and flow, these waves and windows of symptoms are really typical with this."

Days, we all have good days and bad days. We also have situational moments, you know, things that before we could have went right through. And now you put me in this situation, this is going to happen. There's nothing linear. There's nothing linear about benzo withdrawal. It's a wax and wing type thing, you know? And a lot of it's based on sleep and not sleep, and weaning off of drugs and and being medicated.

Yeah, and the other thing that I thought was interesting when I was reading some of these expert reports was, I mean, you got the bigger, you got what a lot of people get diagnosed with. You were diagnosed with functional neurological disorder by one of their experts, which is essentially, it's psychosomatic. It's in your mind. Or, or maybe it was, was it illness anxiety disorder? It was something where, you know, the diagnosis was, you know, you know, uh, you know, obsessive preoccupation with symptoms that is out of proportion to to their true nature. I, I think it's technically illness anxiety disorder or something. And when you're going through that, that's damaging. Think about what that does to a person who's trying to heal, to keep hearing over and over that she's this, she's that, she's this. It's tough. It's tough to keep forward, you know, going forward. But you have to. You have to. You know, once I realized what happened to me, and once I realized what it was going to take, my attitude kind of shifted. You got to kind of shift your attitude. And I'm not saying you can just all of a sudden be confident, but you have to. You have to believe that these things, you weren't this person before you withdrew from this medication, but you are this person now. Josh, can you imagine the gaslighting? You know, it's like, "It's all in your mind. It's all in your mind." You know, this isn't, this is, yeah, several years of gaslighting. And it was, it was berating, and they were somewhat cruel. I mean, that was secondary trauma. That was secondary trauma. You know, you, you have this horrible thing happen to you, and then the secondary trauma is not getting these people, not only to believe you, but to tell you you're bipolar, you're this, you're, you know, you're making this up, or, you know, whatever the terms are that you said. There were so many terms that I had to look up. What is that? You know, "Oh, they're saying that I, I'm, I'm hypersensitive to any change." Which I am. No, it's not a psychiatric diagnosis. Yeah. You know, and so the secondary trauma is not, you know, it's not being received well by my peers, by my family, you know, and then I've got doctors telling everyone that that all these things are wrong with me. It's tough. It's tough.

I think, I think an interesting thing that came through, and I, and I think we were talking maybe about this video that you saw on my on the YouTube channel, was just using the word withdrawal is kind of difficult. Like, if you're having this, if you say, "I'm having a benzo withdrawal injury," people immediately think, "Okay, it's going to be over in about a month or something like that. Just hang in there. Take some disco." That road. Don't, don't. I would almost, yeah, say, you know, you, you don't use the word withdrawal when you talk about this. You go, "I have a neurological injury from benzodiazepines." It's only been recently recognized. You know, people don't really know much about it, but it's in the labels since 2020. And you can like point to it. And then they go, "Okay, you have a neurological injury." As soon as you say withdrawal, it's just lost. Well, as soon as you say withdrawal, you're also stereotyped too. Yeah. "Oh, you're on drugs." You know? And so what withdrawal is a really protracted withdrawal is really something to try to avoid at all costs. I think benzo-induced neurologic disorder, you know, I had to find out, you know, I still to this day, this is the first time I'm talking about it outside of my family. And so to tell people what happened, like people, you know, that I grew up with don't even know because how do you tell people? And I had to, I had to decide that I have a neurological disorder. I withdrew too quickly from a prescribed medication that has caused these deficits. And even then, the looks you get are like, "Okay." You know? So I would guide people away from, um, the word withdraw. From even though that's what's happened to you, you withdrew too quickly, a rapid taper, or whatever happened to you, you came off of medication that just disrupted your whole nervous system. And to even say, "I had a chemical brain injury." "Oh, you did?" You know? So that doesn't work. You know, you really have, have had a, a benzo-induced neurological, um, disorder. Yeah. And, and kind of work from that. It's, yeah, I totally agree with that.

Um, I think another interesting thing is, is the settlement because we were getting ready to go to arbitration. We were going to argue the case before a judge. Um, tell me about the, I guess, how the settlement came about. You know, what was your experience of, uh, you know, where it came from and the negotiation? I'd like to hear about that.

Well, this, this was a very, I don't say time-consuming, but it went on for quite a while. You know, I had some great experts. You being one of them. Um, had another doctor, um, who also has been through this. I also had an attorney who had in the past had some successful malpractice suits against my, my, my medical provider. And so, you know, I had all the, I had the right players. But I thought to get the right players, you know, I just kept pushing until, I mean, I, I found you. Yeah. You know, and that's like, thank you. Thank you, Jen Lee, because I think she was the one who said, Jennifer Lee said, "Why don't you talk to Joseph during? He might could help you." So I just went through the, um, um, the networking, the networking. I had the cognitive ability. Um, Jen Lee grounded me. She acknowledged what was wrong with me. She helped me through it. She kept me from doing this and and taught me how to do things like this, just to calm me. You've got to have the right team of people supporting you while you're going down this road. Um, and so the settlement came about. Um, my, the attorneys that I used were fabulous. Nobody else would take me. They took me. You know, we kept getting higher and higher. And at some point, I think it just got to, "Oh my gosh, they're offering this, this, and this." And I'm thinking, "No, it's never going to take my stats. It's never going to replace my salary. I don't want to settle for that." You know? So we kept going and kept going. And and then they would depose you again. And then we were spending more money on expert witnesses. And, you know, they would pull out the old neuro exams. And they kept trying all the, all the tricks that they're supposed to. So eventually, when the numbers got high enough, my attorneys turned to me and said, "Look, been very few successful benzo cases because it is so, for lack of a better word, um, it's new. It's new territory. It's new territory for a lawsuit. This has been going on for many, many years. Benzo injury has been around for a long time, as you know, with the FDA. They're aware of it. There's a lot of people who are aware of it, but no one has been able to successfully get the lawsuit. And so I think my case is different in the fact that, yay, we have one. And so we have one successful law server, maybe two. There's been several others ahead of me who have them. But my attorneys were wanting to just get, let's get this one. Let's get this victory, you know, so that other people will feel compelled to." And that's how I see it. I don't know if that's how it happened with them or not. But what I see is I wanted to keep going, and they wanted to take what we got. Because when in California, there is an arbitrator. I don't know if anyone else knows about this, but an arbitrator, one person decides your case. It's not a jury. If I had a jury trial, I think we would have kept going. Because after you hear all the things that I've been through and what happened and how the meds were prescribed and how they, I was taken off of them, and the injuries that I had, and then they kept medicating the injuries, I really think a jury would have cited a lot bigger victory. And so for a lot of people. However, when you're with an arbitrator, you can take the money that they offer you in settlement, which is usually unheard of. So we're thrilled to get any money at all. And then as the numbers kept getting higher, that was the decision. Do we roll the dice and get nothing? Or do we go ahead and have a victory in our favor? And I, and I recall when I was talking to Hoyt, when, you know, he told me, you know, "Don't worry about, you know, doing the arbitration anymore." He said, um, "that I guess you got a settlement, which was pretty much one of the highest or in that highest zone that they've ever seen against, um, that medical provider." So you, so he was using his knowledge of, you know, what, what do people typically get for things? And he was saying, "They don't get much higher than this." Yeah. And he was just like, "We should go with that." Um, and so at that point, you and I are both new to this. You know, we know the damages. I lived it. I lived through it. But I had to be at his mercy. He took my case. He, he helped me through my case. Um, we got to the point where they realized that this was going to be really big, a really big lawsuit if they didn't settle. And so the higher they got, I think the attorneys were ready to say, you know, "We're, we're really as high as we can go. And without throwing it all away and possibly getting nothing, I, I strongly recommend that you take this."

And so now, a couple more questions about that. When all was said and done with your attorney's fees, what, what proportion of that did you actually get to take home? I mean, you paid for experts, you paid for attorneys. Like, what was that, a, what did you, did you lose a third or a quarter of it? Like, how did that?

Well, the way, the way it's based on your attorney too, how they, how they want to take this. And of course, it was, um, they were only, they were only going to get paid if they had a successful case. So out of, out of pocket, between, there was Kyle Jones and Hoyt. It's Kyle Jones attorneys. And so between the three of us, we would take turns paying. I, I pay out of pocket for an expert witness here, an expert witness there. And so I had money out of pocket as we were doing this, as we all did. And so when the case was settled, you know, um, and that was another thing. We could spend another couple hundred thousand and maybe get 800,000 more or whatever more. But then it would be taxable. You have to stop at some point where this, the reward that I have. Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah. You're weighing the risks, you know, how much do you want to put out? How high do you want to go? And do you want to give 50% of it back to California? Or do you want to take your losses at this? Yes, I'm telling you. So it's really, you have to be a little cognitive to figure all these things out. And so I had to be at the mercy of my attorneys to say, "Look, you know." So when it all boiled down to it, I did pay them a percentage. And the way California law is, once the settlement was settled, they had 30 days to pay me. And they did. And they did within the 30 days. And so for me, I didn't click my heels, or I still haven't really clicked my heels because I don't have my job back. I don't have, I don't have my vocation. You know, I'll never sit there and do what I do best. And I'm, I'm grieving it. I'm mourning it. But yet, I have, I have more than most people get. Most people who suffer a benzo, it wipes their world out. So I feel very, very, very fortunate that I was able to recover any anything at all. Um, and it wasn't, it wasn't an easy thing to do. My healing was withheld until the day I signed the settlement papers. I felt like I couldn't begin to heal because I was always fighting my case and being told over and over, "There's nothing wrong with you. There's no, you know, there's the validation part was tough." And until I finally, I had to believe within myself, "I know what happened. And I know what you know, was." But until you actually throw in the towel and stop fighting, uh, to be honest with you, it's been several months since the, I was awarded the settlement. And I've tried not to think about it at all. I put the money aside. I'm trying to heal. Um, I still am in therapy. I go to therapy. You know, I'm still in therapy twice a month with my regular therapy. And I've also started something else. And I'll throw this out there for other people. Neurofeedback has been very successful for me. Um, therapy with electrodes and this and that. If you want to look into it, I have a wonderful, wonderful person that I do, elect, I do neurofeedback three days a week. And what neurofeedback does is it calms your brain. When you have this benzo mania and you have this withdrawal and everything's just out there, it kind of pulls it all and helps you deal with it. And a lot of it has to do with your breathing. And a lot of all the parts that are damaged, they can focus on that. You could probably get an EEG and see. When I had my first EEG, and they said, "Oh my gosh, before they even knew me, they told me I was a mess. I was in Davis. I was beta spindling." And I'm like, "What's beta spindling?" And beta spindling is very indicative of someone who's had a benzo injury. So just so you know, there are physical tests that some people can have that will show this damage. And that was helpful for the lawsuit also. When we pulled out, when we pulled out the EEGs that showed my beta spindling, which is, which can be, which can be from benzo withdrawal, brook benzo withdrawal, that pretty much was when they started making the offers bigger and bigger. Yeah. That's great. I don't know if that helps or not with other people.

All of these, these things help. I, you know, I really hope that more people are able to come forward with lawsuits because, you know, I think the thing that really helped in our case was in, in 2020, the FDA finally put it in the label. You know, so it was the first time that a major medical, it was while I was going through this, was when the black label came out. While I was in complete withdrawal, was when the black label warning came out. And so that ends up, prior to this, I think a lot of lawsuits hadn't gone through because there was no, I mean, a couple researchers had written about it, but there's nothing in the DSM, you know, the American Psychiatric Association, or, you know, the neurological counterpart for for the neurology specialists, they hadn't put out any position statements for it. And so, you know, we're at this turning point now where it's recognized in the label. And it listed all of the symptoms that you had, you know, which was, which was great to go through and just be like, you know, Tennessee's, uh, paresthesias, you know, I mean, social twitches as well. And so we had the whole, we used to sit like this. I would sit there and interview, not be able to stop my body. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people with benzo withdrawal had the same, the same things. I still have a little bit of it left, but, you know, they say it'll all heal eventually. I'm still waiting. But yeah. Um, and so, and so yeah, I mean, I, I feel like the door is open now. I think some people could have a run at this. Um, I sure hope so. I would do anything to help anyone. I would do anything to help anyone with a lawsuit. Um, I think, I think I've, um, dredged a path. You have. Yeah. Or at least, at least, at least I can point out the hurdles, you know, and and things like that. Um, right. I think it's time. I think it's past time that other people get compensated for what has happened to them. Yeah.

I mean, this whole, I mean, you were a victim of essentially what what has become a very transactional form of medicine. We go in there, you have a really quick visit, "Oh, you got some insomnia? Try this. I'll, I'll see you later." You know, there was no discussion of the risks and benefits. It was just, "Here's a medication. Just take it. See you later." And then no real follow-up. I mean, you saw several different physicians, you know, there was no continuity of care there. I mean, it was just a mess, you know, the, you know, what, what had happened then. And it's so typical of what happens all around the U.S., you know, with these places where, you know, they're, I don't know if they're poorly staffed or it's because of the insurance companies. I think it's a combination of both. And the visits are just so, so short. And it really, I mean, I mean, it took your vocation away. I mean, let's just, you know, call it, call it what it is. That's what happened. No, I'm not the only one. I mean, this is happening every single day. And people get away with it, you know? And there's, and there's no, you know, there's no, um, I don't know what the right word is, um, it's, you know, fairness about the whole thing. I mean, this is kind of one of the first times someone, a group has been held accountable for that kind of, that kind of thing, which I think is inspiring. I, I think that's just, I do. I do too. And I hope, I hope it gets more education out there. Um, more education is needed for doctors who just think that, "Oh, I've been prescribing this for 20 years. I don't know." And I'm sure that for 20 years, they've been damaging people. They just are now starting to realize it with the 2020 black, you know, like you said, the black label. Yeah. Yeah. Black, I'm sorry, Black Box warning that's out there now. I'm hoping that, and like I said, the younger physician that I went to, he was aware of it, had not treated anyone yet, but had had heard about it in medical school. So, you know, we're, we're years away from turning it around, you know, it's a crisis. And it's all these, more people need to do what I did. And I hope more people can can see what I did and realize it can happen. You just have to, you have to have the right resources. And the benzo information coalition sounds like a cult group, but they're a lovely, wonderful group of people with a lot of educated, educated cardiologists that this has happened to, psychiatrists that this has happened to. I'm a pediatric intensive care nurse. That's why they're questioning, "How could this happen to you?" It happens. It happens. And so, um, if you can get in with those people and get guided in the right direction for the right help, eventually, it's going to be a lot more common. There's going to be a lot more help for people out there.

Yeah, you know, while, you know, I think we're coming to the end of this now, but I, I just want to ask you quickly, how are you doing now? Um, because you've been, I guess this happened in 2020, so now, um, nearly two and a half years later since, since this happened, how have your symptoms progressed?

Well, like I said before, I'm driving now. Um, I was able to paddleboard about three months ago for the first time in two years. Paddleboard takes a lot of core and a lot of balance. It was one of my favorite things to do. I couldn't even get on a board, more or less stand up. So there was about 10 people on the beach, and we were all clapping when I was able to stand up and ride. I did, I rode my board in. And so we've got it on video. I know it seems silly, but it's like, "Oh my gosh." And I, and I told people, "I'm gonna do it again. I'm gonna be able to stand." And it took me two years. Balance-wise, um, am I great? No. Am I riding a bike? Yes, with a helmet. You know, I still don't have the confidence that I used to. The thing that remains the worst, the thing that still remains with me is the neurosensitivity. I'm still very sensitive to pain. I'm still very sensitive to any change. It's almost an autistic thing. Um, the noises, the noises. You know, I still walk around a lot of times with headphones on. Two noises at a time, I have trouble rolling that out. So, you know, and I was telling you earlier, sights and sounds. And so I spent a lot of my time just closing my eyes. When I get overwhelmed, I just close my eyes and kind of breathe through it. And, um, realize that 50% of the noise and stuff goes away when you close your eyes. That's just my tip. It's just a tip for people who are going through this in the beginning. And so, yes, um, I went from not sleeping at all, and I am sleeping now. And I know there are a lot of people in the beginning who say, "Will I ever sleep again?" You know, um, it's just time heals everything. I, I am not one of those who are going to be healed within three to six months. I'm still healing. I'm still healing. Getting the lawsuit behind me is helping me to heal faster now that I'm no longer fighting and proving and every day having to hear, you know, the negative side of my lawsuit. It was very damaging, but it was worth it. And so now I'm going to spend my time moving forward.

And do you think you'll return to work? Do you think is that something that's that's on your mind? Do you think you'll ever get back?

You know, I haven't, I haven't allowed myself to stop the sad. You know, I spend a lot of time grieving, grieving my vocation. And so I still have math problems. I still have somewhat of a dyslexic, um, type thing going on. I still can't find, I can't articulate words the way I used to. You know, I went from being someone who was on a plane every other week, you know, working these high dollar jobs. And and I just, I can't. I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet. Could I probably be in an office, a quiet office, and work at my own pace? That, that's where I would begin. Okay. That's where I would begin in a quiet office at my own pace, doing something. Because obviously, my cognitive function is here. It's just when you throw all the noises in the sound, like, no, you know, I mean, throw all the stimulation in there, I get nervous because I know I'm gonna get get triggered. And so will I work again? I, I would like to be. I would like to be a consultant. I would like to try to help people. I would like to try to help people through what they're going through with benzo withdrawal. I've lived it. I feel like I have a lot to offer. But as far as actually being able to commit to a work schedule in an environment, I don't know. Not there yet.

Well, I think if you reached out to BIC or, um, any of these other groups, I know medicating normal as well are doing a lot of good work. I think I think they would love to hear from someone like you. And I'll, I'll probably share this video with with some of them as well because I think Please do. They, they'd want this message out there as well. So and I know Dr. Lee, Dr. Lee would want this message out there too. She's, if for anyone who's struggling, start with someone like Dr. Jennifer Lee. Start with someone like Dr. Joseph, um, yourself. Um, start with people who live and breathe this diagnosis, okay? Surround yourself with people who understand what you've been through. Don't, even if one door closes, just stick with your people that are in the benzo world. Once you go outside the benzo world, it just throws so much confusion and people really don't know what's happening to you. And it messes with your psyche. It's like, half the battle is finding, uh, the benzo information coalition. And then, and then it's almost like trauma, traumatizing, because you realize, "Oh my God, this is happening to so many people." And this is such a bigger problem than maybe I was aware of. And even now, it's an, "Oh my God," it's an "Oh my God" moment when you find the benzo coalition. It's very, um, it's scary at first, but it's very validating. Validation will get you a long way.

Well, Kathy, I think it's a good time to to wrap. I want to thank you so much for, I guess, having the courage to come up here and tell your story. Like you said, you know, this is something you've kept inside your family and you haven't, you know, publicized. It's so thank you for for trusting me and having the courage to to put this story out there. I think it's a great one.

Well, I just, I hope we can help some other people. Yeah.

Okay. All right. Well, thank you so much. And, uh, you know, have a good rest of your day.

All right. Thank you so much. Thanks for everything.

Yeah, no worries. Bye.