He Built a $120M Affiliate Platform on Social Media

It's probably why 98% of startups fail. They miss out on the most important part, which is the distribution. They will be so focused on everything all at once. They don't hone in on one specific skill.

Okay. So, Benny, your business did $30 million last year and is on track to do $120 million in 2025. This is something that has really changed my life. I I need to build something great. I need to build something that nobody has seen before that changes the entire marketing industry. This year, I want to learn 10 times more than I learned last year. Last year, I think I was talking to you about him earlier. He's in Nigeria and he made $400,000 on Glitchy.

In today's episode, I talked to Benny and wow, what a pleasure. Benny owns a site called Glitchy. What Glitchy does is it's basically a union for marketers and they get affiliate links and the best offers that marketers can use all in one place. But not only that, their platform has a ton of free education and they even dedicate specific budgets for new members to be able to finance them starting to run paid ads. So if you hop onto Glitchy as a platform and you want to try running paid ads for affiliate links, they'll literally finance that for you so that you can learn how to do paid ads. And of course, they make money by providing these affiliate links and then they just take a small portion of the revenue for basically getting you all these insane offers.

But here's the thing. I know a lot of you guys watch me because of YouTube automation. A lot of people are actually making a ton of money on Glitchy through affiliate links purely through organic content. So, they're not even running paid ads. They actually just have faceless social media pages where they're posting videos about products with links to it and they're making tons of money. So, it's essentially like drop shipping, but you don't have to do any of the setup for the website or anything like that yourself. He talks about how he's applied all these things and how he's now built up Glitchy so that all the users on Glitchy made $30 million combined in 2024 and are on track to do $120 million this year, which is mind-blowing. So, this had an absolutely beautiful blend between faceless content, social media, marketing, sales, and actually starting a business, which is what he himself did. If that interests you, you'll love this episode. So, without further ado, please enjoy the show. Boom.

Okay, so Benny, your business did $30 million last year and was on track to do 120 million in 2025. This is called Glitchy. I didn't even hear about Glitchy until recently. What is Glitchy?

So, um, Glitchy is a marketing education platform, um, first and foremost. So people come to us, they don't exactly know how to do marketing. Um, we teach them a ton of different ways. Um, and then, uh, we partner with companies and I'm sure a lot of people have heard of affiliate marketing. Uh, we do it a little bit different. Um, but we partner with companies and we launch affiliate programs. And um when I say we do it a little different, uh the reasoning behind that is so I' I've been a marketer for going on seven years now. Um and before I started Glitchy, I was just an individual marketer. I I had like e-commerce stores or or you know, I was doing affiliate myself. And the problem that always hit me was that when I would go to an affiliate network or somewhere to to get an offer, they would always really lowball me, right? Like I knew that my traffic was worth a dollar per click, but they maybe were paying me 30 cents per click. So with Glitchy, we've had like a a rare opportunity with the the amount of people that have come to us to create somewhat of a union for marketers. Um, what I mean by that is we actually only care about the marketers. Um, I I sorry if there's any brands listening to this. We only care about the marketers. Um, so when we start working with a new company, we say, "Okay, so you're going to launch an affiliate program, but what giveaways are you going to do for for our marketers? What educational material are you going to provide for our marketers? What creatives?" And then also the key is the pricing, right? So for instance, if a marketer is running an offer at some random affiliate network, they might get, you know, let's use the same example, 30 cents per click, but they come to us and we go to them and we say, "Hey, we represent 150,000 marketers."

So yeah.

So your bargaining power is so much higher than if you're just one dude.

Exactly.

Exactly. And and then on the tail end of Glitchy, um we partner with marketing tech platform. So when you go in our app, you'll see different uh tools that can help you. We provide financing. So uh when someone comes to us and they want to run paid ads, uh we'll actually give them virtual cards to start spending. A lot of people come to us and they don't have starting capital.

Awesome. And then uh we also have like in-house engagement tech which helps boost the the conversion rate on the the videos that they're running uh as well as on organic posts. It it helps with boosting the the call to action the CT uh CTR as well.

Right. So, real quick, if I was like uh starting day one as a marketer, why would I go to Glitchie instead of like I don't know do trying to do my own e-commerce store and you know set up I guess the difference is you have to set up every single thing if you're going to you know make your own store versus glitchy is just you get to just focus on making the actual creative and driving conversions.

Well, you know, it's interesting. So, with with e-commerce, because I I did it for several years before I started pivoting into affiliate, um it's it's difficult because unless you have the perfect formula, um and you have a really good supplier relationship, so you're getting a really good cost on your goods, uh and unless you're a good marketer, it's pretty difficult to have a margin for profitability. Um, and that's not to say like I I was at an ecom event yesterday. There's a ton of people crushing it. That's not to say that people can't do it. It's just that with a lot of the offers that we promote on Glitchy, um, they're apps or they're lead gen forms or they're there things that don't immediately require the end consumer to go in and put in a credit card. Um, whenever you're asking somebody to pull out their wallet and put in their card, there's a lot of friction there, right? because it's it's also like how much do I really want this product? Do I trust this company? Right? So, um and on top of that, I will say this, right? So, if the example isn't e-commerce, let's let's say it's Hulu, right? Why would you go and try to get $50 million in funding to create your own Hulu, take months to do it just to get to a point where it's like, okay, the customers already have Hulu when instead you could pull an affiliate link for Hulu and you can make money right away promoting today.

Exactly. People already want Hulu. They already know what Hulu is. So, it's a lot easier to market things that people already know about.

That's so true. I I do a decent amount of affiliate marketing on my channels and it's like a lot of the softwares I talk about. Yeah. There's just no way I would be able to do that or if it was I can't build Yeah, I can't build a software like Yeah.

I mean, you know, it takes time. It took us years, man. There were so many failures along the way. It took a long time and it was I was banging my head against the wall. Even even now, you know, I still have times it's like that, right? It's like that's that's being an entrepreneur. Um, and I I actually what I commonly tell our our marketers is that when they get to a certain level, they're going to go start their own company and they should. They definitely should. Um, I think affiliate is a great way to get off the ground. It's pure cash flow, right? you learn what arguably what I would say is the most important skill in in the business realm, which is marketing. Somebody who has a great startup and a great product, but isn't great at marketing probably might fail unless they find a great marketing partner. Um, it's probably why 98% of startups fail is because they don't they miss out on the most important part, which is the distribution.

Mhm.

If you had to restart, would you have started day one with affiliate marketing?

Yes, 100%. Um, you I'll tell you why. Um, when I did e-commerce, I was always doing dropshipping. So, I never built a real brand. I never had like a US warehouse. I never had like, you know, any retail connections. So, for me, it was just a cash flow thing. And affiliate just made a lot more sense. it was significantly higher uh profit margins and it was significantly easier. There's no product cost. You don't have to worry about like customer support. You don't have to worry about any of these things because it's all handled by the company you're working with. And if on top of that you're also making significantly more which again like I mentioned apps lead genen forms these things are a lot easier to market then yeah it's it's definitely a great starting place 100%.

M yeah, I started the my first entrepreneurial side hustle ever was drop shipping because I was in my room. I didn't know what to major in in college and I was like, "All right, well, if I'm if I'm going to stay undecided, I should figure out at least some way to make money." And so I tried drop shipping. Um, and it was actually decently successful. I think I made in the first month like $400. What I think is really good about uh doing something like drop shipping is that you get areas of expertise in so many or not expertise but like you get to dip your feet in a bunch of different areas of business like building a website, optimizing conversions, organic uh paid ads depending on how you go. Um yeah, so that was really valuable for me. But yeah, like the first thing that I real after doing all those things, the first thing I saw instantly that like I had the biggest connection with was when I posted a video and I got like a 100k views on an organic video and it started driving sales. I was like, "Oh my god, that's like what I really want to hone in on." And that's what affiliate marketing allows you to do is just to hone in on just that aspect of it.

You're 100% right. And I I do agree with that. That's actually a phenomenal counter. Um, when I did e-commerce, I learned every part of it. I learned the customer support. I learned fulfillment. I learned how to negotiate in different areas. I learned how to optimize my product pages, how to add upsells, how to add downells. Now, with some of those things, you still do it with affiliate, right? So, like for example, upsells. If you're collecting an email, you're collecting SMS, you're you have some form of retargeting, you can still upsell people. you can still send people in different directions after the fact uh after they they complete the initial purchase or what the initial conversion point is. Um but uh what I would say is that I think where a lot of e-commerce people fail is they will be so focused on everything all at once that exactly what you said they don't hone in on one specific skill.

Exactly.

Yeah. So I'll give you an example of it. Right. when when I first started in in uh e-commerce and marketing um I I was testing different ad platforms doing different stuff but when I started to get well known and also when I started to be you know significantly more successful was when I decided to become the best specifically at Tik Tok ads. It even got to the point where I would run Tik Tok ads to other people's stores, not as an agency, just as me getting a percentage off of because I didn't want to handle all the extra stuff. I wanted to focus on the one thing I was particularly really good at, which was the marketing.

Yeah. No, that's so true. I I feel like Yeah. Once you start seeing like all the different ways that you can make money and you find the one you like, get really, really, really [ __ ] good at that before you ever go like, "What else should I do?" You know what I mean?

Um, so, okay, I'm super interested in that. So, I've always I've never actually gotten to a point where I ran paid ads. I've always kind of wanted to because there's kind of this dream that there that exists, right? Where like when you have a high converting ad, you essentially just make like a factory where you could put in $1 and get out $2 or $3 or whatever amount. And that's like I think should be every entrepreneur's dream. Now, I've kind of got to replicate that a little bit with um scaling faceless content and scaling faceless pages because we can go, all right, if we know our average video makes, you know, $20 in ad revenue and we could pay an editor $3 to make this, we kind of have that machine running, but it's not always, it doesn't always stay up. Tell me like what the best strategies you've seen with users on Glitchy do to just get like insanely high converting ads and for what offers were they for? Like I know you have, you know, the lead genen offers or the mobile download offers.

Yeah. So, you know, it's it's it's a lot of it is all over the board, right? So, like first, let's let's break apart the marketing. So, um a lot of our marketers do Tik Tok ads because it's you know it it's what's hot and you know CPM prices haven't gone up like they did on Facebook or or other ad platforms. Um, as well as uh the the high converting ads on Tik Tok are usually pretty native ads, right? So they're they're ones that like they look like another video on Right.

Right.

Um, which a lot of our our user base is the user base that uses Tik Tok every day. So they're they're very acquainted with that style. It's very easy for them to to market to uh people on that platform and to and to record, right? because they don't need a high budget to make a, you know, video with just of them holding their phone and talking.

Yeah, exactly. Well, and you know, it's actually a very small percentage of Glaci that records themsel for their videos. Um, a lot of people, they'll either pay UGC creators. Um, they can use AI creatives, which we have integrated into our app. Um they also uh will take clips from different places like like uh open source places across the internet and and turn those into high converting creatives. And it's it's really interesting because uh as as we've seen our platform grow and our our user base grow and the way that they they mark they market change, we've seen a lot of diversification. It's really spread. It started as a Tik Tok ad centered community. Then the next uh phase was organic marketing. So we had a ton of people on Tik Tok, Instagram, YouTube posting shorts and and reels and different videos. Um and you know essentially putting the link in the video as as a means to get the the end consumer to actually like go directly to the website, which sounds counterintuitive, right? You'd assume link in bio would be the best way to do it. Um, but funny enough, very small percentage of people actually click on the account and go to the bio. So, it's it you do have a way higher uh percent clicks when when you put the link in the video. And then we've seen a lot of diversification out to uh Facebook as well. So, um you know, it's a slightly older demographic, but funny enough, the creatives that are working on Tik Tok have started to really really work on Instagram. So all the stuff that maybe died out on Tik Tok six months ago, a year ago, now we're seeing it really really start skyrocketing on on Facebook. Um now if if we were to talk about offers, so you know, a lot of our traffic uh comes from app installs, right? So we partner with apps. Um maybe they just raised uh VC money and they're looking to have people install their app, complete inapp purchases, play through a game.

Right.

Right. So, and real quick, do apps before they give you whatever you know Glitch's commission will be if you know or whatever the the amount that you can pay people per download, do they have in mind like how much they know an average signup will make?

Yes, 100%. Um, so that's that's the thing about most of the apps that we work with. If they raise VC money, they already have all those core metrics. So it makes it a lot. So th those apps know like, okay, the lifetime value of anyone who downloads our app on average will be like $15. So if we can get a download for $10, we'll still, you know, keep $5 profit.

Okay.

Yeah. Well, and I I'll give you a funny example. I don't I don't know how the YouTube guidelines are, but um but I I use this example sometimes when I'm talking to people. So, we we put a lot of uh tracking in place as far as the inapp purchases, as far as different things, not to limit our marketers because we're paying our marketers on on a CPI, which is per install. So, they they get paid per install regardless of the inapp purchases. But essentially, we decide which marketers we're going to trust to push the maximum amount of volume possible to certain apps based on the quality that they're pushing. And the example is okay, let's say a marketer runs really high converting ad um that you know it's it's got it's got great ad text, everything is amazing. That probably will yield a a ton in inapp purchases over a you know a 7day, 14-day, 30-day window for the app. But let's say somebody runs an ad and they say download this app and you'll see Addison Ray's tits. Well, that's also also going to get a lot of downloads. But are those downloads going to complete inapp purchases? Are they going to keep playing the game? No. They're going to open it up. They're going to say, "Oh, no tit uninstall." Right? So, that's that's a a perfect a perfect example of uh why we have to put a lot of checks in place. And yes, the the apps, they have all that data, right? But we've found ourselves in in a lot of instances having to babysit them to make sure that they're getting enough quality because yeah, we know later on there, maybe three, six months down the line, they're going to look and they're going to be like, "Oh, wait. If we don't check the quality, they're going to check and they're going to say, "Oh, wait. This wasn't backing out for us." And then it's a problem, right? It's a lot of problem because maybe by then we already pushed several million to them, you know?

Yeah, which as far as I can tell, right, this all could have been avoided if Apple allowed uh commission or like tracking, but they no longer or maybe they did at one point or they don't anymore, but I'm pretty sure now like Apple doesn't allow affiliate links to apps or to inapp purch and so like they do you just there's like there's workarounds and different things but I on the primary thing for tracking we use applier so we you know we have access to all the data to make sure that the apps that we're working with are actually, you know, they're not running into issues. They're not having people download for some tits. Like that's it's all player. Um yeah. Um so that's that.

Okay. Wow. Okay. So So let's say I was going to make a video or like let's say I was like, "All right, glitchy. This sounds this sounds sick." And by the way, I wanted to also mention so like I I I've been at some other like affiliate uh platforms. Now, normally when I do affiliate marketing, I'll actually typically just look up the website or the tool or the software, whatever that I'm trying to talk about, I'll just type in software affiliate link, and then normally if they have one, it'll show up, and they'll have it'll show up like number one on Google. But sometimes they don't have it. So, I'm in something called like partner stack, um, which has like a bunch of different affiliate offers. Now, what I want to bring attention to um is that like partner stack has really no good explanation on how to make good videos that will convert well. Now, I feel like from me making content for a really long time and pushing uh softwares that I use and and also talking about softwares that I've used in the past,

Those I can talk about really well and convert well with. But like, if I didn't know what I was doing, I would have no way to, you know, hop on the partner stack affiliate network and make money from it. Glitchy actually has like a ton of videos and a ton of education that goes along with it.

So all of that to preface, um, if I was going to try to make an ad that was, you know, not only high converting in terms of downloads, but also high lifetime value in terms of high likelihood for the customers to make in-app purchases, what would an example of like a high-converting mobile app ad or organic video look like?

So, um, you know, it's interesting. It really does depend on what vertical you're in. So, a lot of the apps that we work with are reward apps, right? So, download this app and you can play games and make money, right? Um, and with that, it's um the retention is quite a bit easier. Um, if you can get somebody to start playing and start earning, very likely they're going to keep re-engaging with that. Um, and an example of an ad for that, uh, a lot of times would be somebody, you know, in in a video saying, "Hey, oh my god, I've had this game for a month or I've had this app for a month and I earned such and such." Right? Um, and it's it's more so drilling in the fact of longevity.

Um, but likewise, you know, there we've also seen the oddest things convert. Like I I can't even lie about that, right? It's We've seen people who had a video of someone throwing cash in the air for one of these same kind of apps saying, "Oh my god, I downloaded this app. Look at all this money I made." And that that has had a a ton of in-app purchases and it's yielded a ton of life unleven. So what? So well, and that's that's why we handled the tracking, right? because the oddest things end up converting really high.

Um, you know, I I'm not I'm not going to get too far into Traffic Junkie or what Traffic Junkie is, if you're familiar, but it's it's a uh a it's an adult space ad platform, right? The highest converting ad on on uh Traffic Junkie several years ago was literally a picture of a gallon of milk. No context, nothing. That was it. And it yielded a ton of revenue, right? Oh my. And you can look this up. You can check that. This is a real thing. Someone made a YouTube video about it. I forget the guy's name, but it's it.

So I I think like, you know, part of it is depending on what the offer is, right? If it's an e-commerce product or if it's a product that requires any kind of additional steps like, for example, some of our lead gen offers require somebody to, you know, go through multiple steps in order to get whatever the desired outcome is, which usually there's either an incentive at the start or it's telling them sign up here and we'll give you the best auto insurance rates or or those kind of things. Um, but instead of just telling them sign up, put in your email, if you in your ad text, if you tell them step one, do this, step two, do this, it it does yield significantly higher conversion rates on the front end and the back end.

Gotcha. Well, first of all, that's hilarious. Although I at first I'm like, okay, that's crazy that like a milk or you know, whatever can just do that. Well, on the other hand, when I think about marketing, a lot of the times I think about something that uh a necess a necessary component of marketing is standing out from everything else. So sometimes the stupidest, most outlandish, bizarre like things work because it's not what everyone else is doing. And as long as you can do something that's not what everyone else is doing, that'll stand out and well, it'll convert, maybe it'll it'll draw more attention at least.

That's true. In terms of actually retaining customers, that's the surprising part, I guess. Um, but yeah, I was going to say I always see for mobile apps, um, I always see these ads where like, you know, especially for like games, it'll be like, uh, mom and then dad and like the mom will like suck and like be doing everything wrong on the app, you know, it'll be a really simple game where it's like, you know, you just have to go to the green one instead of the red one and people just mess it up every time. I'm sure that's on purpose.

Oh, yeah, of course. It it makes so that's that is a really interesting example. Um, I I personally my feed is 80% ads because I engage with all the ads that I see just so you know I I'm always up to speed and um, you know, a lot of our marketers do that kind of ad. Um, but we also I I also just see them a lot from you know individual apps or or that kind of thing. And I think with that specific example, I I actually love that one. It's like it's so easy for for the customer to get like like they're just getting frustrated. They're looking at it. They're like, "Oh my god, this this why did that guy not go there?" But then at the same time, they're looking at it and they're saying, "Oh, well, this would be a satisfying app to play. It looks easy." Then they download the app.

Exactly. And if they actually want to play the game that they saw in the ad, they have to complete in-app purchases, get to a certain level, it gets cut off after, you know, 30 seconds of gameplay or the moment that they die, it says watch an ad uh to revive. Like these are all uh in-app monetization uh points that that uh really help in in uh generating the backend revenue past that initial frustration.

Yeah. No, I think it's so effective. It's I'm sure it's worked on me in the past. It's cuz like it rage baits really well to grab my attention and then it's like I think what I'm really thinking as the customer is like I could [ __ ] do that easily. So then I actually have to download the app to like prove that I can do it and actually play it. And that's where I I probably get hit with uh you know the in-app ads and monetization of of whatever form.

Well, before we move on from that, I I actually I've wondered something and I I haven't checked this anything like that, but I I bet Subway Surfer had something to do with Do you know like the split-screen organic videos where on the top it's Subway Surfer, on the bottom it's Subway Surfer? Like somebody like like you know they're they're like jumping through the thing and on the top AI rage bait thing. I wonder if Subway Surfer had something to do with that marketing because it's got to be doing wonders for their app. Like it's it's just like wow. Like they're everywhere.

Yeah. No, honestly, just the ASMR aspect of some apps probably is is what can make a lot of them viral. I see the same exact stuff with, you know, Temple Run, uh Minecraft, like anything that someone can just passively watch. It's like, yeah, I I always wondered if you could even work in um organic ads for apps uh through doing a split-screen method.

Yeah, that's Well, that's what I was just wondering. It's I I've seen them so many times. I feel like Yeah. Is Subway Surfers paying to get their their thing, you know?

Yeah. Something I've seen recently is in like they'll have a a video and then they'll have a goon corner like up in the corner. It's like some like random video usually of a girl and they just call. Oh god, I haven't seen that yet. But well, yeah, maybe my feed is a lot more brain raw than yours is.

Yeah. Well, yeah, speaking of how you said also yours is more ad focused. I remember a while ago seeing Alex Hermoszi say in a video that like he he he suggested to turn off premium on any sort of thing that you have so that you are forced to engage with ads every single day and see what's working. Is that do you do you agree with that? I haven't heard I haven't heard that that that quote or that methodology but yeah 100%. I mean, I I uh I think, you know, when I'm when I'm working and I have like a really long day and, you know, I just open up my my feed and I'm just like looking at stuff, it the moment I see an ad, I'm just pulled right back into work. And I think it does work wonders for you. As long as you aren't the consumer, as long as seeing the ad as somebody who's like also a marketer, I think it can work wonders for you.

Mhm. Yeah. I kind of view my TikTok feed as the same way now cuz I guess I do a lot more organic. Like when I started, I was only posting on TikTok, nothing on YouTube. And so every time I went on TikTok, I would always be like, okay, what did this guy do that caused me to keep watching, you know? And I think it's the same with ads. It's like, well, how what did this guy did I want to buy from this guy? No. Okay, bad ad. Why? And then did I want to? Okay, yes, good ad. Why? And then just replicate that. And like you're low lowkey passively learning every day like

Yeah. Awesome, man. Yeah. Okay. Well, then I also wanted to get back into Okay. So, we got through, you know, a little bit of ads with like CPIs. I wanted to go a little bit into the organic space now as well. Um, so one thing you mentioned earlier was that you don't put link in bios or like they're not as well converting as literally just text. Now, I think this is actually just a platform-wide trend. Um, because I noticed ManyChat is getting like huge and I think it's just because people are sick of like the CTA just like oh click on my link and it's like I don't want to do that but if it's like oh comment the word blank then people are all happy to do it.

Yeah. So um with so ManyChat is a phenomenal tool. Now if you use it in certain ways uh Instagram can flag your account. Um I couldn't tell you why. Hey, I know it's it's not against their toos, but they they do flag uh pretty commonly for accounts with ManyChat. Um so definitely make sure well you know I think in that instance you appeal it and you basically always get it back very quickly. But um the best marketing way I've seen is like you know you'll you'll have people commenting something specific that will push continue pushing your video to the right audience and at the same time whenever they comment that word the ManyChat automation kicks in and it DMs them whatever you're you're trying to pass to them whether it's you want them to sign up for I don't know an email list or whether there's a specific offer. Um, but what where a lot of people fall off with ManyChat is so you can have really long in-depth retargeting funnels built out in ManyChat. A lot of people just use it for the first initial message. Uh, but you can pretty much message those same people every single day after they initially opt in something different. And that's a very useful way to to do your marketing because I mean, you know, if for example, even if it's the same product every day, it might get annoying to some people after the seventh, eighth day. Um, and as long as maybe you have an opt-out sequence or something, so nobody's like blocking you or reporting you or what. Um, but it really can re-engage people to continuously come back and either complete different offers or complete the the same offer because I mean, think about it. You have an ecom store and you get a 98% drop off because you have a 2% conversion rate. So, how do you get that 98% to come back? Nine times out of 10, or probably significantly more than that, they're never going to see you again. Um, so the the key is to continuously be utilizing these retargeting strategies that you have within your organic marketing or even within your paid ad marketing.

Yeah, that's fascinating because essentially you're giving you're delivering the same message but in a different way and everyone responds differently to different ways of speaking and and and different copy, I guess. And so you're trying all of them until you get at least one that works ideally. I saw um yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

Back in the day, I I had a really good ManyChat automation. I just want to mention this where I had all of these delays between messages. So, someone would DM me and then it would have a two-minute delay. It would respond back and it would say, "Hey, what's up, man?" And and then they would reply. whatever they reply, then it would still after 2 minutes reply back with something else. And it seemed to them like they were really talking to the person on the account. And it had a very very high conversion rate.

Wow. H So the more the more like human you can be, the more probably high converting.

100%. I mean, you know, people like engaging with real people. Um we see it all the time. people that instead of doing an organic Instagram reel, someone that goes to a Facebook group and posts something or someone who uses any of these these apps like OfferUp or whatever and it's more personal, they end up having, you know, the the craziest conversion rate you've ever seen because the people that actually click are not just trusting in the product, but they're trusting in in the person marketing it to them.

Exactly. Yeah, the this this whole concept reminds me of a a fascinating video I saw um you know the app Duolingo. Yeah. So a huge aspect of Duolingo that I was completely unaware of before I saw this video is like how they send out notifications. So they have like a huge algorithm like uh AB testing different notifications for every single person and seeing which ones really work the best in terms of getting people back on the app. And that was like what they said like essentially because they don't uh they don't force users into like any paid paid thing. It's always like a premium model. And so what they said was uh they were able to actually monetize from their paid users really well by using all their free users basically as guinea pigs to collect data on which notifications get people back on the app the most.

Interesting. Duolingo has a phenomenal retargeting strategy. I've seen it. I I I paid for their premium. I I was trying to learn.

You got retargeted.

Yeah. Yeah. I I dropped off, but they kept trying to bring me back. Yeah. I think they said one of the best converting ones that they found was when they uh show the version of Duolingo that's like the dead skeleton guy and is like the bird has died like come revive it. And people just back to this human aspect. People felt so bad that they would uh you know go back on the app. It reminds me of sush. You ever heard of sush? It's like a It's like a sushi. Little sushi guy. You take care of it with a friend. The only way to get it for free is if you invite a friend. So, you're both taking care of this sush together. But if a single one of you forgets to take care of it for a day, it dies. So, then you have to pay to revive it or you have to watch an ad to revive it. But since it's between you and that friend and it's like this cute little sushi guy, then of course you're going to you're going to pick whatever.

Fascinating. Okay. So, I also know that with retargeting, not only I guess ManyChat, a lot of people I didn't even know that you could do that, but I did know that you can do retargeting with ads, right? So, can you talk to me a little bit about that as well? Like I know sometimes people do like one campaign for like awareness and then based on how people, you know, interact with the website, they'll run like a retargeting campaign for the people who clicked on it already.

Yeah. One of the highest converting ad campaigns I ever ran was exactly like that. I I had a uh a starting campaign where I would just get people to see the the product. Anyone that liked, commented, shared, or watched the video for over six seconds, I retargeted them again with an influencer using that product. And that one had no link on it, right? Which seems counterintuitive. It was just cheaper in terms of ad spend to not have a link. Uh, running a direct like reach campaign, it's it's significantly cheaper than a traffic campaign. And then the final step, anyone that watched that video for more than 6 seconds, which now we're we're a really small group at the funnel, I would target them with an offer. So like get 50% off. Um, and this is this is viable in pretty much any vertical, right? like and and by the time somebody sees a product uh or service three times, that's really like as as long as they've engaged with it, they've watched it, they they've shown that they're interested in it, that's really when they're there's a very high likelihood that they're going to be.

So, in those first two ads, was there even any way for the person to buy? The first one there is um because you know you if let's say you break even on the first campaign just from now you got awareness for free basically and now who you can retarget.

Yeah. Yeah. And now anyone that that comes through you retargeting them it's it's only going to uh be profitful.

That's that's fascinating. I I saw this guy in e-commerce. I think he's goes by Mark Builds Brands. He has like a very kind of unfiltered YouTube channel like I do. But he talks about how like he he he kind of considers everyone the way everyone is doing drop shipping is like wrong. They run a paid ad and it goes right to the website. And he says like this is like trying to you know uh bring a girl to bed with no foreplay. You know it's like the person's not ready yet. And what he does is he he normally does a funnel where like paid ad to like a pre-sales page where like there's no way to buy. they have to just get through, you know, a four-minute video going deep into the problem that the person has and then only after that and like maybe one page after that as well does he actually even allow you to buy. Um, and at that point, the person's pain has been so intensified and they're so deeply in entrenched that yeah, even if you lose like some people along that way, once they get there, they're so much more willing to convert and can be upsell sold so much more because of that.

Is that definitively true? I I would say so. I mean, you know, and it it's with everything you're running, it's really different. Um, and you know, you You always have to keep in mind who you're targeting, who's actually purchasing. Um, and you don't always want to run an ad directly targeting that group because that can get very expensive. Um, a lot of times you end up running a broad campaign, but you either turn the anyone who might not be the target consumer into the target consumer by by kind of like like what what you mentioned like gradually introducing them to the product or um you run a broad campaign that is something that essentially you you know that um a certain percentage of your target consumers are going to see it anyway.

Okay, but like that being said, right, we talked about how weird ads end up working. Um, when I did e-commerce, I would have 10 different landing pages for the same product. And what I found was most of the time the really bare bones, like a website that looked like it was from 1999 was usually the highest converting. Um, and I I I think the reasoning is just that it's sometimes pretty graphics and and and nice things on on a landing page can distract people, you know?

Mhm. Yeah. I think especially on social media, like if you have more than like a headline text, I already am not reading the rest of that. You know what I mean? So

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I I it's hard because you to put yourself in the shoes of your end consumer can be very difficult because you know as an entrepreneur you see everything through the lens of being the marketer right you you see it through the lens of things that you've seen work in the past but it it does take a lot of effort to actually try to see it from the way that your consumer does because like you

Said you, you might not read past the headline text. I'm the same way. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the target end consumer for whatever the product is, is the same. Maybe they prefer that. Yeah. Maybe they yeah. Maybe they prefer a video. Maybe they prefer, you know, text, you know, it all depends. Yeah. It's that's the beauty of it. That's why marketing has intrigued me and kept me like locked in for the last, you know, going on seven years, is because it's just it's so incredibly interesting to me seeing how you can, the things that you put out can influence people to complete actions.

Yeah. It's it's almost like, you know, digital propaganda in a way.

Yeah. I think it's I think it's one of the most interesting ways to actually be able to make money while studying human behavior essentially.

Oh yeah, 100%. Like that's the yeah, exactly. You're figuring out how the hell do people actually work while while and and if you predict correctly and if you get better at it, you make more money, which is just like bet, you know.

Um okay. Would you also want to show me now cuz I think we're going to get I'm going to ask a lot more questions about how you like scaled your business soon, but I think we've you know, touched a lot on actually Glitchy from a consumer perspective or sorry from a user perspective. Could you show me like, you know, some stories from your actual from people actually in Glitchy and like the successes that they've had?

Yeah. So um I can share my screen here. Um just open up Discord. Um, so I'll just show you uh, you know, our our user success channel where we, you know, a lot of our users post success um, that they've had on our platform. Hold on. Okay, so this is our uh, user success channel. Um, so this is what yesterday and then below that's today. So, um you know, this guy, he had to earn uh 6,000 to get the shirt, 12,000 to get the hat. Um then, uh this guy, what February 12th, he did 44,000. Um in earnings on Glitchy. Um let's see, $100 days. That's insane. 6K day, bagged 10k week, the help of these guys. So, are most of these people are most of these people who are getting to these crazy numbers doing doing it through ads?

Um, this guy's organic. Um, from what I can see, uh, yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's a pretty good mix of both. Um, you know, obviously like, oh yeah, this guy hit 100K. Um, it's it's a good mix of both. And you know what we've found is that uh you know although a lot of people come to us without start capital if they want to run ads since we finance them it it makes it a lot easier for them. Um but additionally since we have uh quite a lot of people that that come to us and you know they maybe have never tried marketing before and you know you have to uh just earn a little bit in order to qualify for uh Glitchy Capital a lot of the time. Um, sometimes, you know, we'll we'll send out notifications to new guys that that just came on, like, hey, you've been pre-approved for Glitchy Funding. Um, which by the way, I say funding and it sounds like a big scary word, but all it is is that people sign up, we give them virtual cards. They use those to run ads. Let's say they spend $1,000 and they make 2500. we pay them out the $1,500 in profit and we retain the thousand dollar in ad spend that they spent throughout that week. Um, and so there's zero there's no fees on it or anything. It's just, you know, we have we have good checks in place to ensure that that nobody's going to try to, you know, abuse that, right?

Yeah. Um, yeah. Just spend the money on like themselves or something like yeah. So, what this was? This guy did 5,000. Um, this guy did 100K. This is the the trophy that they get. That's insane. Um, yeah, it says their name on it. It's got like a little card. Welcome to Super Affiliate. Um, yeah, and so on. So, you know, we have uh quite a lot of guys, you know, they're buying cars, they're buying different stuff. We've had uh see, to me, it's just it's been an amazing thing seeing it like, you know,

Yeah. No, that must be like the most fulfilling thing ever. Like seeing people like for me with my channel, it's the same exact thing. Like when I when I see someone come to me and they're like, like for example, um there was this opportunity to make extra money with music that I brought to a lot of my viewers. And I have people come and DM me and they're like, "Dude, like thank you. Like this helped me make like an extra $3,000 this month and like if you had not showed me this, I would have had no idea this existed. Like thank you so much." And like when you hear something like that, you're like, dude, it's it's the most fulfilling thing. It's actually the reason why I do it.

So, um, if I could touch on how Glitchie started for a second. So, yeah. Uh, a few years ago, um, nobody knew who I was. I didn't know who anyone was in the e-commerce marketing realm, right? So, I wanted to grow my network, meet more people. So, I started joining a few communities and I just started providing free value on how to run TikTok ads. Um, and once I got to a certain point where enough people knew who I was, um, I actually in the middle of the night I found a glitch on TikTok ads where essentially uh, someone would do a $50 campaign budget. They would add about $50,000 worth of ad groups within that campaign. But since the budget was only $50 on the campaign, it couldn't spend more than that. It would spend the $50, but then every time they uh added an additional five or $10 to the campaign budget, it would blow up because every ad group would try to start spending at once and they were all intercompeting. So, it was almost like that five or $10 was the equivalent of five to $10,000 in ad spend. And being the uh the I the non-traditional person that I am, I just instead of keeping it to myself and quietly making 10 million or whatever I could have made on it, I decided, hey, I'm in this group chat with all these guys that are doing TikTok. And I just posted it just to see what would happen. I posted it on a PDF with my Instagram tag all over it. And uh within a couple of days, man, like it was everywhere. Like every other Discord was posting it. They were sharing it like like, "Yo, the the Benny glitch." That's what they were calling it. And um that's that's sick. It was it was cool, man. I got I I got a lot of followers on Instagram from it. I decided to create my own community. I called it Glitch Gourd. So for uh about oh, and that's wow. Okay. Yeah. So, for about two years, it was just a community where I would find weird glitches on ad platforms and I would just post them in there for free, right? Didn't monetize off of it. Just I I don't know. It was fun for me, right? I I couldn't tell you why I did that. Uh there was really no like end goal of it. I just I got so excited like the uh social currency of like, yo, man, we're winning. Like, oh my god. like you know it's it got really excited about that.

So um you know as it evolved into Glitchy um I said all right well I want to because now I've helped them on the marketing side. I want to help people in Glitchy on more than just the marketing side. I want to help them on the product side. I want to help them on actually making marketing easier, getting the starting capital that they need.

Yeah. Did a lot of people not have their own store or ability to create their own store or not know how to do it and and and that's when you were like I need to do this.

Yeah, man. And you know and even if they did it's like you know they were seeing way bigger numbers. So it you know they were and I started it with a case study. you know, I I showed them here's how much I spent, here's how much I made. Scrolled through actually very similar to what you guys did. And um it was uh it was kind of it took off from there. And and you know, back to the to the main point, I've seen like we had a guy last year and I was I think I was talking to you about him earlier. He's in Nigeria and he made $400,000 on Glitchi. Now he's got three Mercedes sitting in it in his driveway in Nigeria. We've had a guy in Estonia who was sleeping at a hostel and he went all the way from there to buying a house with the money he made from Glitchi. So it's seeing that is the ultimate motivation for me. It's honestly like whenever I'm struggling, working all the time, like having like a tough time with something, banging my head against the wall, I go and I scroll through our success channel. I scroll through my DMs and I'm right back at it. It keeps me going, you know? That's that's what what I do it for. And also, you know, I I got taken advantage of so much as a lone wolf marketer. So, I just strive to help the new guys coming in however however we can.

Dude, that's crazy because I feel like it's actually such a similar story for me cuz my my third video on my unfiltered channel, which which is now what I consider like so far my my biggest personal success was me cuz I was looking at the YouTube automation space and I'm like every other video is like some dude saying like, "Oh, do YouTube automation you can make." And then they don't show their they don't even show the channel that they own. They aren't even being like sometimes they'll show how much it makes, but that's about it. And I was like, bro, no. What? Like obviously this is like not how you teach or help people. So I made a video and I was like, non-guru explains. And the first thing I did, I was like, yeah, you probably read the title and you're like, this is going to be another one of those videos. Nope. Here's the channels that I own and here's how much they make. And I did that as the first thing. And the response to that was absurd. Um, and I've just been riding that ever since.

Yeah. Well, you know, um, so when I started Glitchy, I had two big taglines that I was really trying to hammer in, right? We're going to beat business college and we're going to beat the gurus, right? So, let's say someone's charging $2,000 for a course for YouTube automation. either they're they spent so much time focused on the value aspect of it that they probably won't ever see the light of day. You probably won't ever hear about their course because they're so focused on actually doing the stuff within it. Um and then usually they stop doing their course because they realize it's not worth it for them because they thought they were going to make so much more off of it. or somebody who has a course that everyone's buying that puts all of their time into getting people to buy the course, their stuff, if it actually has value, the value is going to get oversaturated and it's going to stop working. And you can't count on them to keep coming back and keep providing more value. It's not going to happen. You paid them $2,000 one time after they deliver the course to you, maybe they hop on one consulting call, they're gone. You're never talking to them again. That's that's like the common theme that I it's always bothered me and you know it sucks because I I you know like I know a lot of these people and I know how they a lot of the time actually most of the time they don't actually do their own stuff at all. They're so focused on the content, so focused on blowing up. So with Glitchy, um somewhere along the line we created a uh a squad program. Um, essentially the way it works is the squads get 5% of the earnings of the people that are within their squad. And since it's a percentage basis, it's not a flat fee, it's not a monthly recurring, they're incentivized to actually provide real recurring uh loans to people. And I think that's the way it should be. That's that's the only way you ensure that people are actually successful which if you're looking at a congruent system of like you know people coming in trying to learn something and and going out and actually being successful in that. I very rarely have seen a course work in that instance.

How would the world be different if every course seller had if the only way that a course seller could make money from their course is off of commission based on the person doing that side hustle? I think it would completely change the the um the number of people who were actually successful. Look at look at some of these communities, hustlers, universities, whatever. Like there there's no real value. actually got kicked out of there for correcting one of the moderators said something wrong about TikTok ads one time and I was like, "No, it's not this way instead." Um, but uh I I think it would definitely help a lot. Um, and you know, as long as there was a stream streamlined way to do it cuz like you know, there's a reverse side, right? Like when I first gave the glitch out to people, I didn't ask for anything, but people came up to me and they promised 20% of their profit and one of them went on to make $2 million and you know what I didn't get anything zero, right? So like don't there's the reverse side of it, right? So there has to, you know, some is to make sure that they're actually guaranteed to earn off of whatever, you know, if they're if they're going to be putting in the effort of actually providing the value.

Exactly. Yeah. It's it's that's always such a like helping someone for free. People are always so reluctant to. And I like to tell the story of the way that I met my co-founder for uh us starting a bunch of these Faceless channels that we've been able to make a bunch from um is because I was making like I was uh early in my journey of you know making videos and I was just showing people I had a TikTok where I would just explain like how I made money from I I don't know if you saw I'm like a juggler so I post a bunch of juggling videos right um and I would just I had like an entrepreneurship TikTok where I would just post videos and explain like how I would go viral on the on the juggling channel and how much money it was making. And so this guy saw the video and he just DM'd me and he was like, "Yo, no. Wait, what? You can make money from TikTok? How do I do that?" And so I just hopped on a like call with him on Discord and I just explained it to him. It was like probably like 30 minutes to an hour. I was like, "Yeah, you got to hit these requirements, uh, you know, the over a minute long on TikTok, whatever." And this guy, he was like a vet, uh, training to be a vet at the time, posting like videos with with the animals in the actual shelter that he was working at. And he started doing that and started, you know, pulling clips from the internet of pets as well. And the next month he came back to me and he's like, "Bro, like I just made like 10 grand this month." And I was like, "Wait, what?" I was like, "Hold on, what the [ __ ] I'm not making that much money. I just explained that to you." But that essentially on the one hand, I think it's very easy for a lot of people to see that and go like, "Oh, I don't want to like help. If I'm going to make this person 10 grand and get nothing from it, I don't want to do that." But on the other hand, that set the basis for a partnership that now we've both made a lot of money together from, you know, and so, thank God that I helped them for free because now I have someone who actually trusts me that when an opportunity does come my way, like when I had editors to help with this Faceless stuff, we can both profit from it because there's actually a basis of trust that was set from that. And I I think the same happened for you with Glitchy because you had such good trust of two years of building that community that when you come out with an opportunity to really unionize marketers and actually bring everyone together like they all want to jump on it with you.

Oh yeah. No, 100% man. And the people that I've met from providing free value and actually putting in effort to help people out. It's they're people that I know for the rest of my career. I'm I'm going to know, I'm going to work with. And you know, I I I sorry, you could probably even the dog's excited about it. Yeah, she's excited too. No, that it's it's a true it's a fact though. Like 100%. The people that that you meet along the way that you provide value to first, like I think a common mistake a lot of people make is they ask for value first. They always ask, I want more. I want more. I want more. Right? But that doesn't build long-term connections. The the people that that I work with that I trust the most are people that came to me or that I went to them first and said, "Hey, I want to provide value for you."

Um 100%. Yeah. How old are you now? 22. That's insane. I'm 21. That's nuts. You were on this early, man. [ __ ] Yeah, man. 15 years old. Um yeah, but you know I uh and even before then I was selling shoes was like doing all sneaker drops and stuff. Yeah. Um but you know uh what I'm what I've found is that so I I have maybe this this will be like the last big value drop that I try to give. I don't know if you have other other questions or other things but this this is something that is really changed my life. Um so I'm not you know I think some people their New Year's resolution is I want to lose 10 pounds this year. or I want to do this or do that. It's it's not that's not I think that's a lame way to do it. But every year I've had the same resolution. Every year I've had the same goal. My goal is this year I want to learn I want to learn 10 times more than I learned last year. Um and that goal has served me very well. It's it's you know every year I've been successful in it. Um there's a book called the lean startup and it kind of talks about the importance of your goal being learning uh and having a a feedback loop and constantly improving um based on real data that you that you take in. And you know last year the thing that I learned was how to build a real team. I mean before that I I had team members I had people around me but it was it wasn't a real team. It wasn't people that were really focused on on improving something and working on something and being thinking about how do we make this product better and last year really changed everything for me in that aspect. I'm yet to find out what I'm going to learn this year. Already learned a lot. We're only a few months in.

Yeah, this is perfect because this is actually exactly what I wanted to get into because we talked a I pretty much this pretty extensive actually about, you know, what Glitchie does for the user if someone wants to join Glitchy. But I want to know also about you scaling this business um and you taking this business from nothing to yeah. 120 million. Crazy. Just crazy. Like how did how did you start this website? How did you start scaling this out? How did you did you have a developer? Did you develop this yourself? Well, you know, um the positioning was there, the marketers were there, um and you know, I I had relationships with certain companies to source certain offers. And I got really lucky because um you know initially when I launched it, there was a company that I was working with that screwed me over and screwed a lot of the my uh marketers over and it gave me this fuel. It gave me like fire behind my eyes. I I need to build something great. I need to build something that that nobody has seen before that changes the entire marketing industry. And with that with

That, like, spark and that that drive—um, you know, I started going out and looking for some of the right people. And you know, I, I found that for every one person that's the right person, you're probably going to get eight or nine of the wrong people. I, I think that's that's a pretty common theme, especially when you're trying to build a team. They're either, you know, too focused on, you know, show up at this time, leave at this time, do this, this, and this, but not, not going to ask for anything else. They're, they're reactive; they're not proactive. It's either that side or the other side is that, you know, they're maybe they are proactive, but they just, they'll just—some, some of the wrong people will just do things that surprise you, that can really hurt your business. And you know, sometimes it's better to cut that off, um, even if it is someone that's excited about what you're doing.

Um, now as far as like developers, you know, I started by working with a development agency, and then it took a lot longer than I wanted, and it—they didn't build the product that I wanted. Um, our first product was [ __ ]. In fact, on our release call where we were talking to our users, explaining it, somebody literally said, "This is shit," to me in front of everyone because it wasn't like a stage. It was just a call. Someone literally like broke out and said, "This is shit." And that, that one hurt, right? But now, now I understand because it was [ __ ]. It was totally [ __ ], right? Mhm. So then, you know, I found some other developers that—Why was it [ __ ]? Um, you know, so when you're building a product, um, I actually feel very strongly that any product that's going to take a lot of, of work and take a lot of like sweat to go into, it's very important if you already have, uh, your customers or a group of your customers segmented, or in our instance, we already had marketers segmented that wanted our product, um, it's really important to ask them for feedback. So I feel that uniquely what's allowed Glitchy to get to the point where it is—where it's now a useful tool that's helping a lot of people out—is that we built it around a community. We didn't build a community around it. So we had constant feedback. We had people who were excited about what we were doing. We had people that were constantly telling us what we should build and what we shouldn't build. Um, and that, that certainly helped a lot.

Now, um, yeah, so I had some developers, we fixed it up, right? And really towards the end of, uh, 2023 is when I would say like Glitchy—the real Glitchy, what it has become—is really when that, that started, uh, working, right? Um, before that it was about nine, ten months of just struggle, right? And we had initial success right at the beginning, followed by just a ton of struggle, and then, you know, I, I kept at it. I think a lot of people, they give up too soon. I, I never once thought I want to give up. I just always thought this is [ __ ] difficult. This one hurts, right? But, um, yeah, I met a lot of the wrong people along the way. Um, you know, I, I've had a developer try to destroy everything we built. I've had, you know, people try to embezzle money from the company. I've had people try to do different things to hurt it. Um, but I think as long as you have enough of the right people, you can always, can always outweigh the wrong people%. And I actually, I'll give you one example of this, and then I'm stop my monologue.

So every Tuesday we have a, uh, weekly senior leadership team call where, um, you know, the heads of each side of the business are all talking. You know, we've got our, our head of success, right? So that's, that's our in-app customer support; it's—we call them the Glitchy success managers. So, we have the head of that department. Um, we have the head of our offers. We have the head of our community, the head of our developments. We have everyone in this one call, and we're talking about different things. Now, the day before Christmas Eve of last year, I told—because Christmas Eve fell on a Tuesday—I told everyone not to show up on this call. And on Christmas Eve, I clicked the link just to see, just to make sure nobody was on it because, you know, I wanted them to be with their families. Mhm. Every single person was on that call. So, I joined. I was like, "What are you guys doing? It's, it's Christmas Eve. Like, even if, even if you, you don't celebrate it, it's a day off for you. What are you doing here?" And somebody on the call actually, uh, sorry, I kicked it. Someone all actually apologized to me and said, "Sorry, Benny. We're just so excited about this new feature building. We just wanted to talk—real—we'll get right up—the—for the last six months that I've carried that so close to my heart." And I just found out yesterday—this is a, this was another life-changing moment for me—one of our team members got a Glitchy tattoo—like the G right here. Just found out yesterday. He sent me a picture of it. Changed my life, man. I—working with the right people, people that care about what you're doing. There's nothing more gratifying than that. That, that will carry you through all the [ __ ]. Uh, Steve Jobs said, uh, about Pixar that the reason that they were successful is because all of the founders got depressed at different times. And I carry that. I, I, I, I feel very strongly—we're all people. As long as we have a clear mission in front of us, as long as, you know, everyone is excited about what you're doing, it's going to be successful, and everyone can share that. Yeah, that's that is an incredible story. It reminds me a lot of, um, a book I read recently. It, it, it was called *The Infinite Game* by Simon Sinek, and he basically talks about how like the CEO should really be, uh, the CVO, like the chief visionary officer. That person's job is to look forward and out, and the team's job is to look, you know, and, and make sure that the team that's actually focusing in on whatever is being built is aligned with the long-term mission of the actual project. And it seems like you're doing an incredible job at making sure both you and your team is all focused on the larger mission at—at—It's just fun, man. Building stuff with great people is just fun, and it's—all—you'll never, you'll never regret spending too much time working as long as you're working with the right people. Exactly. Yeah.

So, how many people do you have at Glitchy now? Uh, 35. Yeah. H—Yeah, that's—I guess that's small probably for a, for how big the company is, or is that normal size? Well, you know, uh, we've talked to companies that are a lot bigger than us in terms of revenue, um, in different industries that have, uh, a lot less people even, but the, uh, I think the fundamental thing about Glitchy that makes it where, you know, our core team doesn't have to be that big, um, is that a lot of our platform is built by our users. So, what I mean by that is if they want an offer, maybe they're already running an offer somewhere else, and they want the highest possible payout for it, the highest possible earning per click for it. They bring that to us, and we know who to reach out to. Yeah. We negotiate that for them with the whole union. Yeah. Exactly. And, and, and our squad program continuously keeps the education flowing, right? So that's built by the community. The education is built by the community. Um, we work with a lot of outside companies for different things and outside people for different things, right? Um, but I think fundamentally like, you know, we're, we're always recruiting. We're always looking for the right people. Um, it's just very hard to find the right people, especially when you're in a non-traditional setting. Yeah. A lot of the time, uh, we'll hire people, and it's, you know, they turn out not to be the right people, not because they don't have experience. It's because really what we're looking for is proactivity. We're looking for people who, who go out and like find stuff to—just wait until something happens. Yeah, exactly. 100%.

Yeah. Okay. So, in terms of getting people to work for you, it's about finding people with the right mission. And then what about getting customers? I think you guys have—How many people were you able to get in just from the two-year community that you already had built with Glitchy? So, our community was kind of small. It was only 3,000 people at the start. Um, and you know, we did a little bit of marketing, right? Like I've gone on social, I've done different things, but that's maybe 10,000—in addition to our user base. How many users do you have? 150,000. Mhm. So basically everybody else came in through referrals. So if you look up Glitchy on YouTube, you'll see YouTube videos. If you look it up on TikTok, you'll see TikTok accounts. Like I, I saw one last night. It has 50,000 followers, and it's called Glitchy Mindset, and all it does is post videos and, and, and content about Glitchy. Um, so a lot of it is referrals, and I think some of the best people have come in by referrals, right? Because it's like if it's somebody you know who—maybe they, they're just looking for a new way to be successful in different areas, um, that, that person is going to be a lot—there's a lot higher probability of success with them because you know, they, they have a friend to help them out, or they are maybe already interested in these things, right? I think that's what's—what—I think you—your Glitchy has done two things absolutely geniusly: one is it's aligned all the financial incentives perfectly, so like you—like Glitchy as a company, you just—h—, you know, have some small percentage of whatever the total offer is. Your, your incentive is aligned to get people making as much money as possible. Your squad leaders want to get people into their squad and actually help them because they're on a financial incentive. And the referrals as well. People don't just tell people about the product and then don't care if the person makes money because you only make money if the people you refer make money. So everyone's financial incentive is perfectly aligned. So [ __ ] genius. Everyone wins, man. Yeah. And, two, um, I think you guys have such a great way of, of, of, uh, reducing churn and like keeping customer retention really high because once someone actually becomes a, a user, uh, they, they have—there's so much nurturing going on compared to like—again, I'm just comparing this to PartnerStack. Like I could sign on to PartnerStack, I could go and, you know, apply for these affiliate programs, and then I get the link, and then it's like, well, now what? You know what I mean? But you guys have worked in so, so many good incentives—like you have—first of all, the education and, and the squad, so there's actually a community around it, but then you also have the, you know, all the rewards that come with it. What, what prompted that idea?

Oh. So, um, well, people always told us that like, you know, they, they wanted a trophy. They wanted different things when, when they hit certain milestones. And, you know, uh, I mean, that's very much like a lot of our other features. It was the community telling us what they wanted, and, you know, we, we reacted to that. We gave them what they wanted, whatever we could. Um, but some of them, you know, like they're just—they're out of the box, right? Like you, you make, uh, 25 million, you get an airplane. Like it's cool. Um, you know, we haven't had someone hit 25 million yet. So—so I guess, you know, I, I—it'll be good for the content, whatever that app, but yeah. No, it's, uh, I think I think it was just the community telling us what we wanted. And you know, to me, I thought it would be really cool. I, you know, I, I went to a few events and a few conventions where I saw a lot of people wearing our hats, and some of them—I, some of them, like, you know, they came up to me and they said hi. Some of them, oddly enough, didn't even know who I was, and I, in a funny way, I kind of liked that because it was like, you know, I, I feel like, wow, our brand is getting out there. People are starting to know, you know, the, the company, and I, you know, it's, it's hard. I don't love being in the spotlight that much. I, I'm just kind of like a solo grinder, right? Um, but you know, seeing, uh, seeing people loving the company for what it is, I—that just—that, you know, that touches—No, I think that I think the rewards thing is super genius because I can't even lie. Hold on, let me—like it is so irrational. But literally because of the fact that YouTube has this thing, it makes everyone—I, I know I'm definitely one of them—so much more inclined to post. And like when you have the same thing with Glitchy, it's like, okay, stupid little gamification. It's like, okay, but that actually causes people to like, you know, want to engage more. Yeah.

Well, you know, and, and the thing is is that, um, when you are a solo entrepreneur, you're working on your own, it's very hard to—to—unless you can somehow push yourself, it's very hard to, to, you know, feel that motivation to keep going. And I think like sometimes all people need is these additional things. So, even in the squads, right, it's like the squad leaders will reach out to them. Hey, man, how's it going? Are you, are you pushing? Is there something we can do to help? Um, we have people from our team that, that do that every day. And, you know, it's just—I, I've had it happen to me before where I had something that was working perfect that all I had to do is log into an ad account, turn on a few campaigns, and I just wouldn't do it. It's just—it's part of the game, you know. Yeah. 100%. So, how do you come up with like how much your company is valued at at this point? So, I actually determined—I actually don't know how much it's valued at. Um, I know the revenue that we're going to hit. Um, I don't know how much it's valued at in terms of, uh, like if somebody were to acquire it, although we're, we're very specifically not looking for it. Yeah, I was going to say it doesn't seem like that would be in your cards anytime soon. Yeah. I mean, you know, like, so to me, it's, it's valued at, uh, it's the world, right? It's like I love it, right? But, um, we're in the middle of—we're doing a, a 409A valuation, so we're going to see what that looks like. And but it's, it's difficult because you know, I think specific companies—it's like if there was an acquisition—which we're not going to do—but if there was—in, in this kind of vertical—it would have to be a specific kind of buyer. So, um, in terms of what it's—so here I'll share something. So this is something that, that, you know, I've been working on with the team, um, until recently we kept it kind of under wraps, but I, I'd love to share, and that this is something that I think is the true value, uh, behind the, the long-term vision of Glitchy. So marketers come to us, and a lot of times they don't know where to start. So we give them the tools and the different things that they might need to start, right? So once somebody hits a certain amount of revenue, a lot of times they want to go start their own company. Now what's phenomenal about what we've built is that—so for instance, uh, one of our top marketers on Glitchy is creating their own app, and we said, okay, great, we can invest in your app, can help you with developing your app. We can help you with anything on the business side that you need. But in addition to that, the main value proposition is that you don't have to worry about user acquisition. Put you right on the top of our featured page. We'll post case studies. We'll, we'll help other marketers in marketing your product. So the end of, of the, the Glitchy level system is a startup incubator. That's really what I've always—Wow. Yeah. That's what I've always wanted. It's like an open—It's kind of like an open-source startup incubator, kind of. Yeah. And—well, you know, you know who I would trust the most if I was going to invest in somebody's business? A marketer. 100%. Because marketers uniquely are able to make any company successful. As long as they're a good marketer, as long as they, they've proven that they can market in different verticals and they can, they can get different things profitable, they'll always find a way to be successful. So, they're also uniquely the best people to teach other people, up-and-coming marketers, how to market their product. Yeah.

Do you know Rory Sutherland? I can say he's like—he's a pretty popular marketer, but he's, uh, he writes—he talks and writes a lot about like a lot of hilarious different kind of like psychological things, but he, he puts it like this. Um, like most people think that, uh, the way you make money is you find out what people want and you come up with an, with a creative way to make it. But you can also make money by finding out what you can make and find a creative way to make people want it. And the value between the two, like the monetary value is indistinguishable between the two. And like a lot of people—I, I kind of see this at like the entrepreneurship, uh, staff, uh, you know, or classes at, at my school. I feel like a lot of time are really obsessed with the first one—like, oh, is there demand for your product? Is there, you know what I mean? But rarely do I see people talk as much about the second form, which is like, well, yeah, the, you know, there's a guy that got rich selling pet rocks. Like, dude, if you can make people want something, it doesn't matter what the product is, even. Yeah, man. No, it's—I, I think the power of marketing is just something that—I mean, we talked about it at the beginning, and I think that, um, the reason 98% of startups fail is because they don't know properly—not just how to market to get customers, because your, your product might not be ready to get customers right now—but how to use marketing to improve your product. Right? You, you market two different landing pages with two slightly different renditions of the product. Um, the—I mentioned it—the book *The Lean Startup*—it changed my life. It was amazing, right? It teaches A/B testing. It teaches the importance of, of always making sure to verify the concepts and, and the importance of focusing on learning first. And in the instance of somebody who's trying to market something, anything, it's really just—you got to think about different angles, different, different audience groups that you might, you might want to target. And you've really got to put everything into trying out these, these different things, right, until you get something to work. And then once it works, you got to be constantly thinking about how do I make it even better. And you're constantly improving. How to date do you know how much money ha—has Glitchy made other people? So we've made—our, our users collectively have made over 50 million to date. Um, that's phenomenal. And this year our, our users are going to make over 120 million. So that's—and it's an honor and a privilege. I've loved—everything in this journey has completely changed my life, and it's changed the way that I've looked at, um, what a company should be, what a culture should be, and how close you should really be to the people that are using your product. That is, that is incredible, and like that—again—that must be the most fulfilling—fulfilling part of this whole journey. If, if someone listening wants to start with Glitchy, what are, what are the steps they can take—like as a user? What should they, what should they do? Well, you know, you, you come in and you learn the different ways that, that you can leverage marketing and you can leverage the different offers available. Mh. Um, and that's all on the Discord, right? So, you log into Glitchy, make an account, and then soon it's going to be in the app. So, you know, below every offer page there will be tagged guides. So this is, this is coming out very soon. Um, and in addition to that, uh, you know, we also have free mentorship.

So you can hop on calls, people will help you out.

Um, now for somebody just starting, it's really just a choice of organic versus paid. Um, if you choose paid, then we have funding available. Um, if you choose organic, there's great guidance available. Um, and there's even more that we're releasing every day. So, um, yeah, that's that's the way I would say to start.

And, you know, I think just kind of looking outside the box and not being copy-paste is something that that I really value in somebody coming in. Um, the people that I've seen that do things a little bit differently are the ones that achieve ultimate success. Whether it's you do something a little differently in terms of building a team. One of our guys has an entire 20-person team scaling his ads under him. That's just like I, I can't even fathom all the stuff that they're doing. Creative process, UGC, create like all all kinds of stuff.

Um, and you know, I've also seen people take really different angles. I've seen people, you know, leverage kind of gorilla marketing in a way. Like we we were talking about the milk thing, right? Like random stuff that you really wouldn't expect to convert.

Um, yeah, that's that's really what I would say to that. Benny, this has been a phenomenal podcast. Thank you so much for hopping on.

Thank you. And yeah, peace. Phenomenal, man. And a good one.