Transcription
I'm MPs, so Kevin McHale was able to get a sit-down interview with his former teammate and all-time great small forward, Larry Bird. Let's see what they have to say. Of course, they're gonna talk about it, and I'm gonna chime in. I got a lot of, "Which one you won here?" Oh, which time you want to hear about him beat? Well, for me, it is get a chance to play. You know, I always watched them go up against seeking them. And I looked at, and Sam, I saw you playing against him. I knew he was six-nine, but I, you know, instead looked at him as a small forward, Sam. But when I got a chance to line up against him, yeah, that's a big small forward. I didn't know that size. Well, I was just stupid 'cause I didn't believe it. I looked at Larry Bird, he wasn't that big to me. He wasn't that fast, wasn't athletic. I thought I could guard him. And I learned a true lesson about the art of the triple threat. Absolutely. And that's one of the issues that many modern-day basketball fans have with Larry Bird. And they'd be quite frank, would do it. It was an issue that many basketball fans had understanding how he could be so great back in the '80s. Please keep in mind that back in the '80s, I was a small child, but I was very cognizant of the rivalry between the LA Lakers and the Boston Celtics. My father followed the Lakers, as well as being a Knicks fan, and I also followed the Lakers. So, of course, as a small child, Larry was someone that you rooted against. But when you grow into your fullness and you mature as a person, you learn how to respect and understand the greatness of others. And when Sam Mitchell stated that he learned the art of the triple threat, what was he saying? He went up against a player who had mastered shooting, dribbling, and passing. So that kept him off-balance defensively. Larry was not going to give you what you wanted. He wasn't going to try to force the dribble to the basket. If he saw that your footwork was quick enough to keep up with him, he will stay on the outside and make jump shots and make you play him. Put it for the jumper and then blow by you. And then he will keep you off was the fact that he could pass equally well with both left and right hand. He was ambidextrous and he was a droid with both passing with the left or right hand. That is what kept his defenders totally off-balance. And before you know it, you look at the, the stat sheet, and he has 27, 9, and 9 through three quarters. And yes, I do believe that he's a greater player than LeBron James. I mean, LeBron James' fans get upset with that. And see the athlete that LeBron is, absolutely not. But as a player, talking about basketball IQ and skill set, he's a better shooter, but a passer and better rebounder. LeBron is a better one-on-one defender, at least at one point in his career he was. Right now, LeBron is playing worse defense than Larry probably ever played in his career. Okay, well, anymore, our man Kevin McHale had a chance to sit down with Larry Bird. Let's take a close look as teammates talk about history.
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We're just hitting with the screen.
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I was just thinking about, you know, all the stuff that we went through. Went through so much stuff. The other two team. Hey, Larry Bird will be so dominant today, especially with the way that the NBA accentuates long-range shooting and has taken away a lot of the physicality, the overt physicality. I think a lot of it has been kind of made up with the fact that the players are faster today and in better condition due to the fact that they've learned so much more about how to improve the human body. Bird would be even better today. He ended his career with about 21 and a half thousand points. As most people who know the history of the NBA, they know that Bird's body started to break down on him in the late '80s. Had he been around today with some of the conditioning techniques, he would have easily scored over 30,000 points, 35,000 points even. But his career was directly linked with Magic Johnson to the point where after Magic retired, he no longer wanted to play. What do you think the biggest difference is between, you know, our era and today's? There, what do you like about today's era and what don't you like? First, well, before Larry Bird answered, let me ask, what's better about today's era is the face-up game. The players today can handle the basketball in a face-up situation better than players could back in the '80s. The average player back in the '80s, they were much better in the post. Every elite scorer had a post game, whether it was Bernard King, Dominique Wilkins, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Moses Malone. Even the guards, Michael Jordan, Mitch Richmond, they all could post up. Players today can't post up. It's a major problem. And it's the reason why it seems like the Golden State Warriors are so effective because once again, everybody plays the same style of basketball. In order to nullify it, it seems like Golden State, you have to slow the game down, you have to make it more physical, you have to, you have to post up. It seems like New Orleans had Buddy Hield stayed healthy, they would have been a problem for Golden State as long as they would have utilized the low post play and slow the game down, play them up, take away the three-point shot, make them drive, hope that you have a man at the basket to block their shot, bring the ball back up. You have Rondo, you have Drew Holiday, slow the game down, executing a half-court, dominate them, dominate them down in low post, try to wear down Durant and Draymond Green, those two mama's boys, and hope that you can get them to snap mentally. There are ways to beat the style of today, but most of these coaches, they just follow them behind what the best team does. You can't do that. You can't beat the best team at what they do. And that's what's missing in today's game is the diversity of styles. You have more diverse styles of play back in the '80s, but the face-up game of day is much better. Players dribble much better on average than the players did back in the '80s. First of all, I really like the game now. I think, and also the long-range shooting today is of course much better. I think they cleaned it up as far as the grab and the holding, the cheap shots. I think they're really on top of it. You know, when you're out there playing, you like to have freedom, and they have that now. Obviously, the three-point shot is stretched out to court a little bit now. You heard what Larry said. He said they've taken away a lot of the grabbing, the hold, and the cheap shots. There's much more freedom on the court now. That's his way of saying, that's his way of saying in a very nice way that this era today would have been much easier for him to play in because it was very hard just for a player. I can't even get the basketball in clutch situations because of the way that they would grab you, especially if he tries to run the baseline. You have about two or three guys trying to bump you out of bounds or try to hold you and grab your jersey, things of that nature that they just don't allow today. We play, we always worried about the minute was so clogged because we was really trying to pound it down side all the time. The three-point line has been taken advantage of. I think it's open the court up. There's more space out there. And some of the players that have a lot of skill, you can see the skill on a nightly basis. Mmm. Now, you know, three-point line came in near first year, my second, over the second at the three-point line. When did you start kind of like working on your three ply? Just no, Kevin. We never really worked on it. Yeah, I mean, and that's the point that I try to make incessantly on this channel when people come on in the comments talking about LeBron James is a better three-point shooter than Larry Bird or Michael Jordan. They just didn't do that back then. Now, you can give players of today credit for being better long-range shooters because the style of the game has necessitated that they work on their long-range shooting more. But conversely, you have a guy like LeBron James who had to go out to Hakeem Olajuwon's house to learn how to post up. And he utilized the post-up for his three years after that in Miami. And then after that, he's totally given up on posting up. And that's one of the reasons why the Cleveland Cavaliers are struggling so much is because they're trying to play a young team style of offense when they should be trying to play an older team style of offense and post up, slow the game down. The corner shots and the one out at the top thing, I really, top of the key, they're the shots that I like to take. I can remember Danny talked about using it back then, and he thought you could shoot 35, 36% from the field from threes and do better if you shot 50% from the twos. Well, it's not a surprise to hear Larry Bird say that Danny Ainge was thinking on that level back then because that's part of what makes him a great executive today. Is that he was a forward thinker. That's one of the reasons why Danny Ainge was able to last in the NBA for so long. Danny Ainge, not only did he was he a high-level participant on the Boston Celtics teams in the '80s, he also went to play with the Portland Trail Blazers for a couple of years in the early '90s and got to the finals with them. And then left them and went to the Phoenix Suns and got back to the finals. So Danny Ainge is a player that if they had a role player Hall of Fame, he'd be a Hall of Famer.
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And I was laughing because I was in the All-Star game with you when you walked in and asked who's gonna get second place in the three-point contest. When you, like, thank you. Hi there. What were you thinking with that? When you, when you made that announcement to the room? Just messing with all those guys like you always did. Yeah, you know, I had no clue. I never, I never really practiced. Me and Danny used to shoot some before we went out there. I'd say, you're Larry Bird got the right name 'cause he damn sure looked like a bird. And then I just like a vulture there. But everybody sitting there, everybody's real quiet. You knew the guys, but you never were around. Yeah, and nobody's really saying anything. So I walk in and look around and it just came out. I had no clue. You [Music] know, it's just part of the competition. Craig Hodges was probably the greatest three-point shooting contest shooter of all time. He had the greatest performance in the history of the three-point contest. I think he scored 24 points in an era where they only had five tri-colored balls. Now you have an entire rack of tri-colored balls. But back then, they had one tri-colored ball per rack. And I believe that he hit something like 20 straight shots. What do you brothers can correct me on that? Well, I'll never forget that. That was crazy. You know, it's so much easier, Kevin, to go in a gymnasium and shoot threes by yourself or a few people around you. See how he shot the basketball? That's why his shot was so tough to block because he was six-nine and a half and he took the ball all the way almost behind his ear. Very tough to block his jump shot. Once again, he would have been, he would have been so much more effective even today than back in that era. So it's silly when guys come on the internet and talk about how Bird would be a backup player today, that he would be Doug McDermott. Yeah, Larry Bird would be the best passer in today's game, and he'd probably be the best scorer in today's game because you can't, you can't really put your hands on him like he could back then. He was a greater version of a Dirk Nowitzki. Imagine a player like Dirk Nowitzki who could pass like Steve Nash. You cannot tear. You're right there. 20,000 people looking at chess. It's a whole different ball game. And I knew that going in. I thought I had a great advantage just because of that. I remember because we were sitting there and you were putting the balls on the rack like you were going through it. And you even when you told me, you said, it's weird to take the ball here to reality. Glasses, if you were trying to get the feel of getting the ball off the rack. And I fit about that because you didn't, you didn't, you started practicing a few days before we all starting with that three-point contest. I remember because you were saying, I'm gonna win this. Check.
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I remember everything. The tech was all, it was like 10 grand. 10 grand. They're saying I'm gonna get just a grand. Larry Bird, not it's way too big. Three here, the long-distance shootout.
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You didn't practice on that much. Now, and I know going in that, remember in the locker room, Robert said something. There's no way in hell I don't win that three-point contest. So I'm, you're right there. Robert Parish, led to more underrated big men of all time, also a karate expert, if I remember correctly. Big ass, seven-foot-two, karate expert. Anyone three in a row. Once again, people look back at those scores from the '80s and the three-point contest and say, "Oh, wow, they were winning with low scores like 15 and 16." But back then, they did not have that one rack, but they all call it balls on it. And plus, the day, yes, the players are better in long-range shooters because they practice it more. Overall, the players are better long-range shooters, but the best shooters of that era, we're just as good as the best shooters of this era. We take a Dale Ellis, a Larry Bird, a Craig Hodges. You bring them to today, they could shoot with anybody. Just like if you take a Steph Curry, a Kyrie Irving, a LeBron James, Kevin Durant, and you transplant them back to the '80s, they were dominating the '80s just like they do today. It's asinine when people say that such and such player couldn't play today. It's just dumb. If you go from the era of integration forward, the best players are the best players. If Draymond Green was playing today, he'd be just as good as Steph Curry. Jay was averaging 27 a game with no three-point shot. So it is what it is. That's white boy swag, right? Did you count? You exact company point? Yeah, their knives. I knew the crowd, you know, but I didn't know if I really tied or won. Oh, I'd be funny as hell. He put his thing up in the air and the ball, and the ball pops out. I really didn't care what the score was. Born into it. I just know I had to make shots. You were so relaxed when you played basketball. There was something about you. You just enjoy playing. Baseline knew that, but you like to talk. You talk some trash, and we did some stuff, but you played intense, but you, you were just really. Where did you get that from? I have no idea, Kevin. I was so nervous before the games. I couldn't wait till they started, but once I stepped on the court, I'd shoot layups, everything just calmed down. I mean, I was very fortunate that that happened. A lot of all-time great athletes, they'll say that they were extremely nervous before the game, but right when it started, they would calm down. Bill Russell stated that he would literally vomit before every game, not just play awful in the finals, but even before every regular-season game. He got bad hyped up for competition that he would throw up before every single regular-season game. You know, there's team, Dr. Kevin, I tell people they don't believe me, but we'd be playing really well, and then press voices, what would you think? We made one thing. Yeah, I was thinking about my grandmother. Wonder what she's doing today. Totally out of the arena. I'm just playing my feel and following. And a similar sentiment was per what used to be propagated by Bruce Lee. He used to talk about a Zen Buddhist philosophy known as the Wu Wei, if I remember correctly. On this Wolfson, alright, if I'm pronouncing it incorrectly, someone can correct me. Spell W-U-H-S-I-N. And one of you brothers, please look that up. If I'm remembering it wrong, you can correct me. It's known as no mind, meaning that your mind should be there, but not be there, so that you can get the greatest benefit out of being in the situation that you're in. Basically, it's just the concept of staying in the moment. You hear many great players touch on that, whether it's Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, even Steph Curry. Bruce Lee talked about it as well, and he utilized that concept in his martial arts while he was sparring an opponent or fighting an opponent or what-have-you. He believed that that's how you maximized whatever craft it was that you were participating in or that you were trying to perfect. Whatever event you were in in that moment was to not be totally cognizant and overly focused on what you were doing so that you could relax and perform as well as you could. Oh, and and people don't understand that, but that's how I did a lot of times. Mine, you know, we run play, I knew what the play was, but my mind might be somewhere else. And, you know, they talked about the zones that people get in. For us, when we got into some, you know, as we get going, and my mind was so far away from basketball, and that happens, and it's just, it's unreal, and they don't make a lot of sense, but it's truth. All the things we've played. What did you, the best team that we, that we had together? No doubt about it. 1986. So off the charts, the '86 Celtics had the greatest frontcourt, most likely in recent NBA history, because all four of their frontcourt members, Bird, McHale, Parish, and Walton, could pass extremely well, as well as obviously being very potent offensively.
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Difference in the combination. Good. That's the team, of course, that swept the Bulls in the first round of the '86 playoffs, where everybody states with no. I shouldn't say everybody, let me specify. Shannon Sharpe would, if Michael Jordan that good, how come he couldn't beat the Celtics in the first round? '86, that was one of the all-time great teams.
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This is a rarity in sports. I don't think it's ever happened. At a celebration, I started before the end of the game.
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Our teammate, unbelievable. Billy. Late, late to really win a lot of games. Yeah, an execution, playing together, and trusting one another has a lot to do with the receiver. If you can get the ball and get in the right spots to make plays, it makes a lot easier. Yeah, no question. I think there was a joy that you played with. That's why you were fun to be around. You'd love to compete, and love to play basketball. I like the way into you. And once again, that to me is what puts him above LeBron James. I know at his peak, it's his ability to make those type of clutch shots. Now, LeBron is a little bit underrated in regards to his clutchness because he does tend to freeze up in big moments, or I should say, he had a period in his career, I'd say from about 2007 all the way to 2011, where he would freeze up in big moments. And that's where Bird separates from him in my view because Bird actually got better in those moments. So, I mean, it's close. If someone were to say that they believe that LeBron is better than Bird, to me, that's debatable, but it's certainly not something that is not something that is unbelievable. It does bear credence. LeBron brings a lot to the table. He's a great scorer, great passer, even though he's a little bit overrated as a passer because he does turn the ball over a lot. But the thing is that he's unable to play in an offense that does not revolve around him. He's unable to play in a system that's not the LeBron James system. And we saw that in 2011. That's one of the reasons why he was so ineffective in pressure moments against Dallas because everything wasn't running through him. He didn't know what to do when he didn't have the ball. He just sat there and looked at D-Wade. He didn't know how to move off the ball. And then he lost rhythm and he lost confidence. Players like Bird can give the ball up to a Dennis Johnson, to a Kevin McHale, and Robert Parish, a Danny Ainge, going a weak side, moving off the ball, cut, make layups, make great passes, long-range shots. That's the difference.
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You know, we always felt we were gonna win at home. But going the road, beating anyone, and let's get on that bus and then talking about the game. And I always thought that was the greatest. I've been very fortunate. I'd be able to build a full circle, and it's been nothing but learning experiences. I've been burnt grateful to the NBA for everything that they've done for me. This help everybody gets an opportunity to do it because plans different, coach conscience different from doing GM success. Nothing was fun is playing. I was it, you know, playing him the ball in your hands and getting yourself mentally prepared for each game. That was the ultimate. Yeah. And Larry Bird, by the way, just to give a little background on him, he came from a household where his father suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder from being in the military and ended up taking his own life. Now, the effect that that had on Larry Bird, who knows? That may have caused some fragmentation and has been his mind originally. He did try to go to Indiana University to play under Bob Knight, who has a background in associated with the military. Bob Knight also was the, these Bengali, the Guru of Mr. Mike Krzyzewski, who was one of his main proteges. And it's possible that Larry was being forwarded to Bob Knight because Bob Knight had certain, had certain understanding of how to manipulate star players like that due to having a certain training and MK handling, etc. As I tell you brothers, you're gonna come to find that many of the top coaches in college and professional sports, they understand how to manipulate people mentally, psychologically, and many of them have a military background. Bob Knight, I believe, coached with the army. And if I'm wrong about that, knows one of the military branches, but if I'm wrong about that one, he buzz can correct me. And I know that Mike Krzyzewski was one of his proteges. Now, Magic Johnson, as we know, was ferried through Michigan State and he played for, I remember correctly, Mr. Judd Heathcote. And Michigan State, even though it's in the news now for the, the Olympic coach, Larry Nassar molesting the girls, they have a long history of being involved directly with the CIA. I believe that they were, that they were at the front university for something called the Vietnam Project. But that's another video for another day. But the CIA has always been closely associated with Michigan State.
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Also, please keep in mind that Isiah Thomas also played under Bob Knight. Anniversary of him winning three in a row at the three-point contest. Larry Bird, a three-point shooter. I'm not surprised about that. He was a great shooter, but like he stated, they just did not accentuate that shot back then because they believed that, why, why stand outside at long range like that and take those long three-point shots when the mindset was to pound it inside or get as close as possible? You know, but like I've been telling many of you brothers, always keep in mind and be cognizant of the MK handling angle. Once again, Larry wasn't going to play for Mr. Bob Knight, but he couldn't deal with it. He did not like the surroundings. He kind of got skittish with the amount of people that were at Indiana University, so he left. He and the plan for Indiana State, after which he posed on the cover of Sports Illustrated utilizing the finger of Hippocrates. So, were Larry Bird and Magic Johnson linked or put under some sort of twinning programming, some sort of mirror programming where they were meant to act as at the opposite ends of the spectrum of each other? Who knows? But we do know that Isiah Thomas went through Indiana University, played Mr. Bob Knight, and then came to the Detroit Pistons, where eventually he was coached by former CIA associate Chuck Daly. Alright, so as I always tell you brothers, everything is connected. You know, what for me is, I mean, watching him win in the fashion he did. You know, we've watched people win different type of three-point contests, but to be able to hold your finger up, no expression about you, Sam. Yeah, people start saying then Larry is too true the way in the fashion he won. Yeah, a lot of times it's only at the end of a player's career that you start to understand. But, you know, particularly if you're in an immature state, if you're adolescent or what-have-you, that you approach things emotionally. But as you grow into manhood, hopefully you do anyway, you start to evaluate things from a much more pragmatic perspective. And that, in that ways, when you can appreciate greatness more. And look, I'm not saying that all of these guys are monarch athletes, all the star players, I should say. I'm not saying necessarily that Isiah Thomas and Larry Bird, Magic Johnson are all monarch athletes, but many of the most prominent athletes are. And even, even if they were not subjected to quote-unquote satanic ritual abuse as children, the methodology of utilizing MK handling techniques over people in general is always pertinent when you're trying to guide people to a certain goal. And that's why you will certainly see the preponderance of coaches who were associated with the military constantly, constantly exhibiting their quote-unquote skills, whether it's in football, basketball, baseball, etc. You'll see that a lot with this coach Belichick, Bill Parcells, Chuck Daly, etc., etc. Bob Knight, Mike Krzyzewski, the list, the list goes on and on. For the dramatics or no style. Think about it. The one thing of basic, drop the mic. You think about the three-point shooting contest today, but the hype around it is because of what Larry did. He brought the excitement back for that, and he showed that a true art of shooting the three. What I agree, I agree. I think that he had a lot of white boy swag, but it is what it is. That was a very nice feature piece.