Transcription
哈囉大家好，我是 Charlie，歡迎收聽查理的創業化合物。這是一個創業訪談與自我成長的頻道。如果你想每週聽一位創業家分享創業乾貨與認知邊界，記得訂閱喔。
那麼我們現在呢，也開了自己的 LINE 社群，所以也歡迎大家可以點選節目的資訊欄入群，跟我們一起來交流。
我們今天呢，又非常榮幸邀請到兩位大來賓，先歡迎我們 Worky 的兩位創辦人，馬哥跟米姊。
哈囉 Charlie，還有各位這個 Podcast 的朋友，大家好。
哇，你剛剛那個是，應該來講是一個貫口，說相聲來講是一種貫口。
每集都講一次，每集都講一次。
好厲害喔，越講越快。
真的，真的，真的。我覺得大家就是分秒必爭，很快就把那個資訊量都提了。因為我們在大陸以前看到有一個主持人，他就是講那個貫口，是所有的那個贊助商，他光贊助商講一大堆，哇之快的喔。
這要跟你們學習。
沒有，沒有，你們才是戲棚下的，真的很厲害。
前輩。
很棒，很棒。很開心來上你們節目。
米姊也跟大家打個招呼。
哈囉，大家好，我是米姊。
兩位就是那個神鵰俠侶來著。
神鵰俠侶，神鵰俠侶。
對，然後今天的這個主題，我覺得會跟我們所有的老闆都息息相關，尤其是現在這個缺工的時代。餐飲業、服務業，然後包含我們自己的產業，可能還好，因為我們產業比較特別一點點。但我知道我開餐廳的朋友，都面臨到一個很嚴重的痛點，就是員工很難找。
對，缺工問題。但缺工這個問題呢，已經不是台灣，缺工是 Whole World，全世界都在缺工。那怎麼來的呢？因為全世界都共同遇到一個大的災害叫做 Covid-19，有一個疫情三年。那那三年對很多人來講是，那三年怎麼了？怎麼過的？怎麼過去的不知道。但全世界都受到重創。但因為一個疫情改變了全世界人的劇情，然後很多的工作的狀態跟心態都開始改變了。所以呢，會有很多的時候，這種非典型的工作人員就誕生出來。只是說我們突然間會意識不到，原來這個世代已經走到非典型工作者越來越多。什麼是非典型工作者呢？就是你有全職，但你還要兼職，或是你根本你沒有辦法當全職工作，因為你有各式各樣的理由，你無法做全職工作。這樣人口很多，他必須要透過他碎片化的時間去找工作。但是誰？哪一個老闆願意給這樣的工作機會呢？怎麼拆解出來呢？這就是一個很大的問題了。
對。
所以從疫情改變了劇情。
哇，這個金句啊。
對，對，對。
是，是，是。所以 Worky 也是因為這樣子才誕生的。待會我覺得聊一下那個創辦的故事，因為我覺得 Worky，我自己做了一些研究，我覺得很特別。大家可能會把它類比，可能像小雞上工，但其實你們是透過 AI 讓自動去媒合這種短工零工，就是讓商家跟這種時間很不固定，但它可能需要收入的一群人，然後去把他媒合起來。
對。
然後創造出來一個，像剛剛講到，疫情改變了劇情，對，然後就誕生的 Worky。然後因為我那時候有聽兩位的分享，是那時候在美國，原本想要開早餐店，聊了之後才發現說，這個缺工會是一個大的議題，然後後來才回台灣，決定做這個 Worky。
你真的有做功課。
所以可不可以跟我們分享一下這一段故事的。
你真的有認真做功課喔。
必須的。因為我覺得最大的不一樣，剛剛講的這兩者，就是到底 Worky 這個工具，跟現在有的市場上看到的平台也好、工具也好，有什麼不一樣？其實最大的不一樣是，其他的平台相對，就算他是兼職的平台好了，還是相對來講要固定。可是 Worky，他就像人力 Uber，就是你可以是自由度更高，不一樣的時間，你每個禮拜可以接不同時間。但是對於商家，或是店家來講，他會覺得不可思議說，怎麼可能，就是每天來不一樣？其實沒有這麼難，就是喜歡來的，他還是會固定來。反而因為這樣子可以增加你的一個口袋名單，人力庫，那你的試用成本也會比較低。你看喔，你找一個正職的人來，那他有可能來做了，他可能不一定你滿意，那可能他還沒有受訓完，他就要走了。那或是說你覺得不喜歡他，你還要資遣他，你覺得他不適合還要資遣他。但是對在用 Worky 來說，你的試工成本是很低的，可能是四小時，或是六小時，或是八小時。兩小時其實也夠啦。你找他來，但你就會知道說，他好或是不好。不好你就不要用他，或是把他加入黑名單，你以後他在找工作，你也看不到他。那甚至你可以跟我們反應，那或是你給他留下一個負評，那讓未來就是在他在找工作的時候，他可能別的店家雇主也會看到。那這個就是一個信用的年代嘛，我們大家都知道。那另外呢，就是說如果你覺得他好，你就把他加入口袋名單，那他下次有時間的時候，你缺人，他就可以持續再來。其實這個就是很好調配跟運用，他適合現在這個零工經濟的這個年代。
對。
那講到早餐店，其實真的就是，還好你還圓得回來。我剛想說你怎麼講講講講講，講到另外一邊去了。
我還記得好嗎？其實那時候就是想開，因為我們是遊戲公司，我們母公司是遊戲公司。我一直以來就是做遊戲，那我自己也很愛打電玩，然後所以開了遊戲公司。在遊戲公司的第八年吧，就是也是在疫情期間，我知道說其實這個商模已經出了問題。因為遊戲公司他的成本其實是非常高的，就包含說，其實我們沒有辦法，以台灣來講，沒有辦法成功的去做一款開發 RPG 類的產品，是開發不出來的。我們也其實在裡面花了好幾億在試，可是也試不出來。那所以必須走代理一條路，那代理的成本又很高。你除了一開始你需要花一筆錢去代理以外，你拿到的代理權可能就是兩年，最多三年。那你看得好，原廠就拿回去自己做。像 RO 一開始台灣第一款 RO 仙境傳說的手遊，也是我們做的。
啊，我的回憶兒時回憶。
對啊，那時間到了就被韓國原廠拿回去自己做了。
做太好了。
對，所以其實他是，你做得好會被拿回去做。那做不好你更不用講了，這個就是像錢丟到水裡一樣，就連聲音都沒有。你拿到的就是一堆源代碼這樣子。那我想說跟我老公討論，我們那時候其實是最痛苦的時候，因為知道這個商模出現了問題。你看這中間，比如說 100 塊，我收入 100 塊，我要給原廠分成，然後我還要給 iOS 跟 Google 抽 30%。對，然後我要花很多的廣告成本，因為我們每天打開那個 iOS 跟 Android 的這個商店，我們看到這麼多遊戲，誰會知道這款遊戲是好的？那他是在玩什麼？大家不可能一個一個下載，每一個都是各種買量，就是買量來的。對，那你在買量或是打廣告，你可能就要再花 20、30% 的費用。
嗯哼。
對，所以這個成本很高。我們最後拿到手上的利潤，其實可能不到 10%。
哇。
對，因為還有人事成本。那這是有成功喔，如果沒成功，就打水漂。
你就打水漂。然後我那時候跟我老公講說，那比如說我們代理一款遊戲，大概需要 200 萬美金，就你大概簽約金大概 100 萬美金，好一點的產品。那你就廣告，你大概也要花 100 萬美金，所以大概就是 6000 萬台幣。6000 萬台幣我們開餐廳，我們可以開 6 家，我還可以看到餐廳。
對。
所以當時是這樣的想法，覺得很天真，就是說好，不然我去開餐廳好了。而且我們想要去做一個美國的連鎖早餐店。對，那也是風風火火，真的想要做。
我開始，沒有，我覺得是瘋了。
真的是瘋了。就覺得，不是去美國玩而已，然後就萌生了開早餐店的念頭。然後因為我在這方面，突然間覺得，因為我本來就比較藝術家個性，就瘋瘋癲癲。但你突然間我那一刻超理性，我說老婆，你看那個美國那個家庭喔，他們都有大冰箱喔，他們去個賣場買回來，可能是一個月的存量。他們早上吃一個穀麥片啦，牛奶啦，煎個蛋啦，土司弄一弄就出門了。所以他們可能跟我們想像當中飲食文化那麼精緻的早餐，可能有點距離，或是你要開在大城市，你的相對來講成本也相當高，你也會很難處理喔。我說你要不要冷靜一下。
但你老婆已經回來去找麵包師傅了。
速度這麼快。
不愧是 CEO。
去找說誰會做麵包，誰要做早餐，然後到處問說哪裡的飲料怎麼樣。
我說你冷靜一下。然後後來，因為討論嘛，然後我想說怎麼樣來勸退我老婆，或者說可以給她一個更好的資源建議，所以我就尋求了資源。就剛好人家介紹這個美國回來的企業家。然後我說，那我們問他好了。然後就花了大概五分鐘時間，我說老婆，你去問他，有什麼問題你就直接問他，反正人家已經介紹說這個靠譜的。然後我老婆講說，哎，我們自己有一個想法，要到美國開連鎖早餐店。那個人一聽眼睛就為之一亮。我們覺得哇，是不是我們講對了。他說，喔，你們開什麼早餐店，都沒有問題啊。啊，但是你們要先解決，你們會找不到人啊。
這個我跟你講這句話，好像一個陽光照進來。
OK。
就突然間覺得，哎，對，哎。他說，因為大缺工啊。美國你知道很多店都收了，因為疫情過後，沒有人要工作啊。疫情過後美國福利又很特別，很多人光拿那個美國的福利，政府福利，他不用工作，他根本就不想上班了。所以美國舉債，舉債度日，所以會搞得就是，我們覺得突然間意識到，在台灣也有很多的，身旁朋友開餐廳的也好，開旅館的也好，開這個什麼，就都在缺工。他們本來跟我們的社交日常，比如說假日可以碰個面，大家出去玩打個球什麼，都不行，因為都被困住了。我們就覺得，好像有這樣的一個反應。本來你不察覺，但後來發覺對，哎，我們連生活條件都因為台灣的缺工問題，而影響到我們生活的品質。例如說你假日好不容易大家去吃餐飯，餐廳忙到不得了，但是呢，他是忙不過來的，你叫個辣椒，你已經吃完飯辣椒還沒來。你去高級餐廳，然後那個廁所的馬桶裡面，那個衛生紙爆出來，但一個人要付 3500，那個 Minimum Charge 那麼貴，然後我覺得很不合理喔。你去 Check in 旅館，叫你說你晚一點再 Check in，還越來越晚，然後叫你早一點 Check out，然後我們還不能夠含扣喔，你不能夠說哎，Why，然後你要給我打折不行，因為他沒有人。所以才意識到這個大問題。
那當然，我太太呢，本身是企業的個性，她就是解決問題。她就突然間覺得說，那既然找不到人，那怎麼辦？她就突然間轉向，那解決找人的問題，我就可以開早餐店啦。但後來想了想就發覺，這樣也不對啊。那我也乾脆就解決找不到問題的這個點嘛。她就說，哎，那我們來搞一個人力 Uber 好了。
OK。
我一聽我說，Wow，這個聽起來 Sounds good, Sounds good, Sounds good。因為呢，我其實周圍也很多做投資的朋友，那我這兩年聽到的就是一些自動化，比如說珍珠奶茶店自動化，你不需要有人。那這個機器設備，大家就會覺得這個項目很好。對，那都是跟自動化有關。那這個為什麼呢？就是因為缺人。所以缺人這件事情，已經不是一年兩年，就很多人跟你講，而且是全世界也都有意識到。對，那因為我們之前做遊戲，我們其實有出台灣出海的經驗。對，我們有做過韓國、日本、泰國、新加坡、馬來西亞，就是我知道說其實海外市場是很重要的。那缺工看起來是全世界的議題。那今天選擇的題目，我就要是能出海的，全世界的。OK。
那其實我們希望做的一個平台，就是 Worky from Taiwan，就是我們想要做，然後讓大家知道說，喔，這是來自於台灣，Taiwan Can Help。有點像野心，但我覺得蠻好。
不是有一點，是真的把一開始就是定位在一個 Global 的 App，要出海。
其實喔，我覺得喔，就是一顆大樹喔，它從種子就決定它是大樹了。我們就把那個眼界，因為他有出海的經驗，所以代表我們的視野，包括說我們其實我也走過 60 個國家。我聽起來，我覺得喔，那如果問一下加拿大的朋友，問一下美國朋友，確實都在缺工。那 Why not，我們不做啊？那我就覺得說，我就說老婆，我覺得你這個 Idea 非常好，我們就來做吧。
那我們就開始去，你知道土法煉鋼。她以前做手遊的，但是也因為她有做手遊的 DNA，所以她會把各種的機制，你知道手遊一款遊戲好玩，是有很多機制，它有很多的沒錯，遊戲化的機制，讓你成癮。遊戲化的機制。
我們不能講說成癮，就是你會覺得很好，讓你黏住。
讓你黏住。說實在，現階段你要任何平台，平台就燒錢嘛，但平台能夠久留，就是王道。你能夠讓人家待得久，你才成功嘛。那怎麼待得久？一定要好用。所以你們剛剛在談的過程當中，我們在講說，現在就是碎片化。你剛剛講好像愛情公寓有沒有？B 端你缺人，那我們 C 端要找工作，我如何幫你把它用 AI 的方式媒合？但這個裡面有個關鍵點，就是什麼呢？這關鍵點一定要信用。
嗯。
其實現在人不講信用，現在人也對於信用這個東西，好像跟我沒有關係。其實信用就代表你的價值。
沒錯。
你的價錢。要不然幹嘛有信用卡？為什麼要有信用狀？所以一個人如果沒有信用，你怎麼會讓人家願意花錢在你身上？那那我們最簡單的東西，履歷隨便你都可以寫，Chat GPT，各種的 AI 都可以幫你寫得超美麗的。這個自我介紹跟履歷，所以履歷就是泉。人家講泉，在唬爛。就是履歷都是你在唬爛。那你唬爛了個半天，聽你在泉，還不如你實作給我看。對，那你實作之後，你就有 Credit，你有 Credit，你有你行進的路徑，所有老闆給你的評價。那當然評價我們會去很中庸的看待這個事情去評等，因為有些大起大落代表你有問題嘛。一般來講都會給予很中庸的。但如果你表現傑出，你洗碗就像你洗碗，你洗超棒，你的 Ber 亮動作又快，我就給你五星。那你覺得我同樣都在洗碗，為什麼我都這麼認真，我居然跟你拿的價格是一樣？你偷偷摸摸，你弄得油油髒髒，我弄得那麼好，為什麼我要跟你都同樣的價格？我應該有資格拿到有人願意付我更高的錢，因為我有信用價值。
但是這一件事情啊，其實店家可能會覺得說，那這樣我成本是不是增加？其實我們一開始在推的時候，我們發覺很多的店家都是受傷的。對，就是說其實很多店家其實是願意花比較多的錢找人，可是他們認為找到的人，都不是好的，Quality 不好。就是說可能包含剛剛講，林林總總的問題，比如說 No Show，或是說對於一些工作者，他們可能沒有認真想要在這上面表現。因為我覺得它這是兩方面的問題。對。
那所以我們現在平台祭出了一個，就是說我們每個月其實紮紮實實送一百萬，我們送到十一月底，我們已經送了九百萬了。就是從平台去獎勵，獎勵。我們從去年九月份上線，到現在，我們已經送了九百多萬出去。就是說一個月有一百萬的獎金，我們鼓勵給像剛剛講的，比如說有人洗碗洗得很好，他拿到五顆星，然後有人洗碗洗得不好，他只拿到三顆星或四顆星。那我們就會獎勵五顆星的人。那你每個月，你可以去統計你一個月總共拿到幾個五星，然後去換這個獎金池裡面的獎金。所以其實有一些時數比較高的工作者，他其實一個月可以拿到一兩萬。當然因為如果說這個功能，我們就開了，那越來越多人的話，當然你分母多，分母就小。但是沒有關係喔，因為我覺得就是我們最主要是早期紅利，你可以這麼說，獎勵早期用戶。但是夠多人，我們這個獎金池還會再增加，我們會想辦法增加。因為待會我就要聊細節了，因為這個都是燒錢補貼的策略，要看你可以補貼多久嘛。但是我覺得我們的平台，就是我們有一個 Slogan 叫信得過更好用。我覺得就算你說是獎勵，或是我們累積這樣的一個，其實我們就是讓大家 B 端跟 C 端的人，他們透過以往的傳統工具，他們可能面對找工作，或是我在徵人當中，可能有很多的受傷，可能有很多的工具上面的，他們沒有前進，沒有 Upgrade 上去。我們在新世代誕生出這樣的一個，用機制，用 AI，用這種自動化的東西來做一個新的工具。那我們當然希望我們無所不用其極的希望你覺得它很好用。對。
那我們也在累積大家對我們平台的信任。而且我是檯面上的，跟我老婆一起擔任這個創辦人，我說實在我們也跑不掉，你也不能亂搞。對，我也不能亂搞，我必須得替任何東西來負這個責任。就是說，哎，我覺得我們應該讓大家信任我們這個平台。所以，我認為目前為止呢，我們是人一直進來，而且會商家介紹一個，就代表說我們真的已經好像越過了一開始那個溝通成本，很困難。因為以前假設我打比方，以前大家用這個 Nokia 手機好了，就突然間你給他一個 iPhone，不會用，他不會用，他覺得哎，你這什麼東西？我要 Nokia，我要用 Nokia。我覺得以前這個刊登的蠻好的，我就這樣這樣這樣這樣。那你知道刊登過往的，就你要先刊登職缺，然後你要呢收一大堆履歷，然後 HR 要看，安排面試時間，面試完之後，然後什麼時候要安排，什麼什麼，就是又很冗長的一個招募流程。招募流程。我現在沒有，一鍵上工，一鍵決定你的要不要留，或是我不要你。對，就是一次解決。
那大家也要開始有一個，有一個覺醒，就是喔，原來在這個工具裡面，我不要亂搞我的工作，因為每一個足跡是跟我有關，都有信用足跡，都有信用足跡。那我覺得人是需要被管理的，你不要太相信人性。但是我們是很溫和的管理你，我們也還獎勵你，我們不是來懲罰你，我是來獎勵你，讓你覺得說，哇，我在這上面真的找到我的價值，而且我賺到實際上的錢嘛。那我覺得那很好用我就用啦，還有額外的 Bonus。對。
那店家呢，你就越過那個懷疑說，蛤，不用面試，那來的人 Quality 會不會喝醉酒的？會不會怎麼樣的？喔，沒有，因為我們來的 Quality 都很棒。對。然後我們現在一年多了，我們講一個數據，我們居然 62% 是女性。哦。然後有一半，50% 是全職工作者兼職的，他本身已經有職業的，就想要賺多賺更多，他想多賺一點錢。OK。那 62% 女性是怎麼來的？因為她們都想要像男生一樣，可以開 Uber，開就自由工作，但是她們可能不會認路，也不知道怎麼開車，但她又想要這種自由彈性的工作。那我們就很符合她們。她們可能是家庭主婦，帶孩子上課，孩子突然間去上課，我就失業了嘛，那我要照這個碎片化時間去工作啊。或是有些什麼初出茅廬的，到社會上面。那他又會有店家的這個刊登，就她不怕去到一個不好的環境，不怕被騙，就雙向評價了嘛。所以就我們這個裡面是 25 歲到 34 歲 60%。哎，這些年齡層是代表，他有熱情，他有社會經驗，他不是一個小白。OK。哎，他有熱情，然後他是勞動力的那個中間最強大那個。那所以我就覺得哎，這個其實讓很多老闆回饋我們說，哎，沒想到你們來的人真的是質感不錯，質感不錯哎，而且都是年輕。當然現在很多的在職婦女也來，但是哎，她們其實做事超仔細的。
對，對，對。
她們超仔細的。
對。因為除了剛剛馬哥講的這些以外，我們針對出缺勤管理，付薪水，自動化，其實都是你都不用管，就是我們需要重要就是說，我們協助店家給你一個很好的工具，其實除了找人以外，降低他的成本。對，那你要跟他核對薪資，你要計算他的時數，全部我們甚至可以出報表給你，你後台你都可以看得到。所以這些其實他就是工具的好用。所以我們不會說我們在切入一個人力市場，我們認為我們就是一個提供工具的平台。
對。我講一下我現在認識的 Worky，因為尤其是剛剛又聽了兩位分享，就是他解決了兩個很大很大的痛點。第一個是商家以前就是像你們剛剛講的招募臨時工，或我們在找 PT，我們的 PT 也是一定要，也是要來面試，然後可能面試了十個，然後我最後選了兩個，然後兩個一個來了之後，明天就不來了。然後變成是說，啊，我這個主管，以前是我自己啦，然後現在是主管，他花了很多時間在做人員的招募跟培訓，結果最後能用的人其實不多，等於他花了一大堆時間在這上面。所以他的某種程度他的時間成本超級超級高。然後但是透過你們的平台，因為你們就是哎，馬上來用了就換，然後他也不用面試，試了好用就留，不好用就換下一個。然後因為有這個信評的這個機制在，就像 Uber 嘛，大家會看到你去搭 Uber，你不會希望搭到一個 3.9 顆星的。對，你希望的是 4.9 顆星的司機。
是，是，是。
所以他有各種的評分，讓坐的乘客去評，所以一樣商家也可以去評他的這個信用機制。那因為你們又有這個獎勵機制嘛，你如果拿到五顆星有獎金池，那做的人可以賺更多，他這變成是一個循環，等於是這個環節的每一個信任節點，都建立起來了。對。
還有你剛剛講的，我們 Worky 呢，其實 No Show 率其實是 2% 以下，就是 1 點多%。哦，其實很低。
很低。這個比我們自己找員工，搞不好還更低。
你知道為什麼嗎？因為你只要 No Show，你這個月的獎金就沒有了，歸零。OK。臨時取消也包括喔，就是你今天早上才說我不要來，我有事，我有講也不行。因為其實我們對這一方面是非常嚴格的。對。
對。
個就是我們鼓勵給工作表現好的，但是臨時取消，這個是比較不能被接受。
我覺得這個遊戲化做得真的很厲害，不愧是遊戲出身的。
對。
對。
所以我就說，然後鎖得很緊。
對。
所以我就說，為什麼我覺得我太太在這方面，我覺得她有做這個工具的能力，這個機制都是米姊設計的。
當然有團隊討論一起。
OK。OK。
也有。我太太是很會管理的。
真的是搞遊戲出來的。
你看我就知道了。
我就是被管理出來調教出來的。
因為她很懂的。
這個是不受管理。
失敗案例。
最難管的在這邊。
員工都很好管。
很叛逆。
這個最難管。
很叛逆，很叛逆。但就是我發覺這個細心的東西，是她的優勢。那大家也就因為這樣發覺說，因為這不是說我要去介入到人力上，就能夠做的。其實這是天時地利人和。我覺得我們是突然間看到這個亮點。那我覺得一個經濟學來講，你要想辦法做生意賺錢，如果沒有需求哪來的供應嘛？需求是供應的來源。那其實我們就很單純。就話說人家講說，哎，小馬你跟你老婆在做一個幫人家找工作，我說其實你這樣講也對也不對，因為我們其實就做一個工具，一個平台。我們就是做一個工具。我們要知道你們兩方的需求，我們是符合。我需要你們，我希望你們去了解這個工具。我說在 iPhone，我現在送給大家每人一支 17 iPhone 17 好了，每一個會用的東西不一樣。
嗯哼。
不一樣。
你懂我意思嗎？
不一樣。
你 iPhone 17 跟我會的不一樣。不一樣。然後有時候原廠出來的設計，還有人可以知道哎，我會更比你更會用這個東西。這就是它奧妙的地方。因為我們可能設計一個東西，人家想說哇，你怎麼用這個？哎，我跟你講，它不小心發現，原來我有個邏輯，可以怎麼用？你看可以這樣用。那那我們其實在做的時候就很有熱血，就是哎，你看回饋給我們說，哇，這個東西這麼，原來可以這樣子喔。
消費者會反饋給你們。
所以他會反饋給我們。那那我們就是不斷的去優化，然後以至於說，這個東西就建立出我們跟 B 端的店家，跟 C 端的這個工作者，我們其實在中間做一個信用。你們要信任我們。所以，我常常去一些餐廳，包括我們最近我的好朋友，那我也沒有去查訪，我們只是到他餐廳去吃飯。那楊祐寧他開了他們家那個火鍋店，那我在那邊吃飯吃一吃之後，有一個女的就過來，她在服務我們，她就過來，趁我上廁所，她就跟我打招呼。她是服務生。她說，Hello 馬哥。我說，哎，妳好，妳好，妳好。她說，我是 Worky 的人。我說，喔，喔，喔，真的喔？我說，妳是 Worky 的人？喔，對，對，對。我說，啊，妳做多久？她說，喔，我已經接了 200 多單了。
哇。
她說，謝謝你們做這個平台。我說，喔，不用謝，不用謝。因為就可以看得出來，她很謝謝我們誕生了一個這個世代的工具，讓她因為某一種原因，她沒有辦法找全職工作，解決她的問題。這是一個 Aha! moment。
哎。
對。
對於創辦人來說，這是一個 ESG 你知道嗎？OK。這是一個社會的責任。
因為。
你說 Aha! moment 是什麼？就對於創辦人來說，你看到這個消費者的反饋，那個當下你一定，就那個就是你的 Aha! moment。
做 Worky 就是。
就是。
對，對，對。
會更多。例如說老闆，我們店家，我去訪問一些店家，因為各式各樣店家，我們會問說，哎，你有那麼多發工作，我們可不可以來採訪？我們很想要需要你們店家的聲音。很多人就說，喔，那馬哥，你要來 OK。啊，有什麼那種傳統市場裡面的包子店啦，搬家公司啦，麻辣火鍋店啦，或什麼什麼店。然後我就覺得說，他們老闆就看我們說，他們熱情跟我講說，謝謝你。還有個賣那個丸子啊，就是很小的店家，街邊店。他說，謝謝你，因為我真的找不到人，我要關了。但還好你們的 Worky 讓我撐下來，而且我現在已經知道怎麼運用你們的這個工具，然後讓我的工作而且量越來越大，我不只是人家外送啊，內用我都可以應付得來。而且我算一下，你居然幫我省我人事成本，一個月省了 30%。
哎，哇。
我聽到 Aha! moment。我今天學到 Aha! moment。我說喔，那我們知道我們的意義，不是來自於我覺得做生意，誰不想賺錢。但如果你們都不覺得好用，我賺什麼錢？我連錢都不用賺了。對，我根本沒有這個資格賺。但如果我今天能夠把你們兩方東西都做得不錯，你們信任我們做，那麻煩你們給我們反饋，我們會。但我們沒有辦法做到全部滿意，但是我們來工具通通拿出來。
對。
比較一下。這個就是剛剛講到我看到兩個很大的痛點嘛。第一個就是解決商家缺人，然後你們還包含那個算薪水，然後時數打卡。
對，對，對。
就不用他自己來，就全部在你們的系統。
付薪水，然後連薪水也都是透過你們平台，就直接發了。所以其實對於店家來說，他等於把臨時工全部委外處理了。他完全不需要去 Handle 這一塊，他只要找到好用的人就好，透過這個工具找到好用的人。
然後另外一個痛點，就是剛剛提到的這些，不管因為以前大家做零工，要嘛你要有專業技能，你要會設計，你要會寫程式，你要會幹嘛，你才有辦法在下班自己去接案。另外一種就是跑 Uber。現在大家就只會跑 Uber。但很多人像剛剛講很多女性嘛，她就沒有駕照，那她怎麼跑？所以她很少有能夠創造第二種收入來源的方式。對。但今天透過 Worky，他有他的工作沒問題，但她下班就是想要多賺點。尤其是 25，剛才講 25 到 34 這群人，大家都想要多存一點錢。然後透過這個平台，他發現喔，原來我還可以去餐飲業工作，我可以幹嘛幹嘛幹嘛。這些東西都是很快速可以上手的，而且還有獎金可以拿。對。
然後我發覺這個世代，你知道這個世代，我覺得有個很妙的東西。我曾經看過一級玩家，人類會走到一個什麼世代我們不知道。但我們常常在看喔，你知道我們去澳洲，去哪裡，去一些國外的地方，就發覺就是說，他們每一個人的國家的民情不一樣。他們可能是你給他工作時間，加班他都不要，他要去過生活。所以我有意識到一點，就台灣又少子化，台灣很多的人在這樣的一個很困難的環境底下，他可能對未來對買房子，對什麼，他會覺得這個根本，我這個世代我不見得能夠完成，甚至於我就過好我每一天就好。那所以我就覺得現在是，工作誠可貴，但是我跟你講，自由價更高。所以當自由這個東西到他們心裡面的時候，他會覺得說，哎，我今天我可以過我的生活，我其實只是為了五斗米，我要繳房租，我要交男女朋友，我要成家，我可能要養小孩，我可能有一些林林總總的開銷。但我可以透過我很簡單勞力型的工作，但是我的時間是我來分配。我不會讓我八小時在那邊洗碗，洗得我累死了，可是叫我洗四小時我 OK 啊。我今天兩班嘛，我中間可以休息一下，晚上我可能去貼個包裝一下，或者是分個類，我一樣可以透過我的安排，把一個月該有的上班族的薪水賺到。對。而且我還不用跟老闆請假，下禮拜我想休息一個禮拜。對。哎，哇。
所以會有很多人會想要過這樣的生活。我跟你講，因為我跟你講，台灣有太多的高學歷的人，到最後真的大學文憑的一堆，可是你連工作還是要做到不是你想要的東西。那所以那大家要什麼？自由。自由。喔，我可能有很多理想，我很多抱負，我可能從網路裡面可以去賺到錢，或是我想要摸索這個世界，我想要去體驗我的人生，我都可以做這個事情。但是，我實際賺到的錢，你不要管我怎麼賺到，而且我是靠信用評價哎。所以我們希望有個願景是，未來有一天人家講，哎，你在做什麼？喔，我在做 Worky 啊。哎，你不要小看做 Worky 的人喔，他們是靠信用評價在過生活的人。他們是有信用評價，他們是好的工作者，有信評機制。對。那他不見得是喔，吸塵器或者幹嘛清潔。哎，Come on，服務業，不要再看不起服務業了。你去一個餐廳，人家把工作環境打理好，其實是非常非常棒的一件事情。
其實我們的願景啊，其實是希望說以後，比如說當你想要找一個正職，或是說我想要去面試一個正職的時候，Worky 的這個信用評價，是可以讓你調出來的。對。對。然後你就說，喔，我可能是雇主，我說，那你讓我看一下你的 Worky 的評價，那我就大概就會知道說，你是一個什麼樣的工作者。對。OK。我們希望也許兩年可以達到這一個效應。因為信用評價它是必須透過累積，它是需要時間，你要實打實的去工作才會有的。對。然後現在很多人他可能，因為我們現在行業類別越來越多，零售業啊，然後製造業，也有傳產的製造業喔。零售很需要哎，包裝啊什麼的。對，因為零售你總有大檔期，你光 1111 光棍節，台灣有很多展場對不對？展場也需要人。OK。然後包括我們台灣很喜歡辦演唱會，演唱會也很需要人。所以有很多行業其實慢慢都會知道，原來有這個工具，有這個工具我們可以怎麼樣用這個工具累積我的人力庫嘛。因為這很簡單嘛，我今天要去做一個工作，我可能最好是離我家近一點，或者是我剛好一條龍下班，我可能是有全職工作，可是我下班剛好經過的地方，我剛好就在那附近，我也可以打個工。那那個動線的你撈過來都是你的人，你是店家的話，你撈過來，這個都是我的人力庫。A 沒有空，B 有空，B 沒有空，C 有空。那那我們也會優化我們的機制，明年開始會有對配對的機制，會有什麼任務牆的機制，就是我們希望你好像闖關。你這外場可能有，很會哎，真的是遊戲化。你可能是一個餐，我們講餐飲，因為餐飲業跟旅宿業是重災區，缺工最。那餐飲業我們就幫你分解嘛，你本來要訓練一個員工，喔，外場你整個的這個全部的工作，你可能訓練他三個月到六個月。喔，現在不用，你慢慢的訓練，你把它階段性，喔，這個是 A 的站區一號到四號，然後呢，你就讓這群人先做這個。啊，下次他再來，你說，哎，你要不要做另外的區間？你久而久之你就訓練到一個全職員工，你就有標籤了。他全職工作，他都已經會了。甚至於你邀請他說要不要變成全職，我們也不收你挖角費用。你挖得動你就挖。但通常這種人很難挖，是因為他本身就他要自由，他有他的困難。但也有可能喔，因為每個人階段性不一樣，目標不一樣。也許他就是真的孩子到大了，我已經不用管你，我孩子的早上還要弄他吃早餐，他已經大了。那我就哎，那我可以轉正職。那你就轉正職嘛。OK。
那但是你轉正職那一剎那，你的履歷就有了。還是會保留。你可以跟人家要求比較高的薪資吧，去談嘛。所以你要很在乎你的這個 Credit。哇，這塊其實不太容易，因為一來是那個數據庫要夠多，是。然後再來就是大家要信任這個機制。我覺得這個會是一個比較困難的門檻啦。所以我們現在在針對比如說剛剛講的，其實我們現在可以直接就把什麼旅宿業啊，什麼保母啊，什麼全部都打開。對。可是為什麼沒有？我們現在還是針對就是比較藍領的工作者，原因是因為信任對於 Worky 來說，是個核心。核心。對，就是我們是信用為核心，所以有信用履歷。那那我們針對所有的技能的管理，其實都是很重要。那未來比如說你要進階到比如說清潔，那可能必須要有清潔的認證，專業技能認證。那以證換證嘛，就是有什麼證你可以來換做什麼工作這樣。對。比如說你在什麼協會取得的，一個什麼證，那我就以證換一個認證。或是說你可以透過我原本不會，我是一個媽媽，我不會，但是我透過你去學習培訓，我可以賺到比較多的錢。那接下來我就可以接比如說清潔的工作。
量能會最大。
對，對，對。
你餐飲服務業現在我們台灣最低工資 190 左右，但如果說你 Housekeeping 來講，Housekeeping 可能要到 350 到 400，450 都有可能一個小時。那居家清潔可能更高喔，因為它是很 Detail 的東西。但是你不會有學的方法。這樣我覺得很多，因為像現在也有很多，比如說剛剛講的居家清潔，或是幫你整理家裡的，其實蠻容易應該可以去跟這些平台合作。
可以啊。
因為他們都有既有的。
其實就可以，他有一個既有的培訓機制。
完了之後透過你們去媒合消費者。
對。
其實就是雙贏。
而且我們兩邊都不傷啊。我也不會搶你的東西，因為他們就是要技能嘛。那當有需求來，例如說民宿，民宿業者，你知道我岳父在羅東開民宿，他們找那個 Housekeeping 的人來，都不敢讓隔壁民宿店家知道他們是誰，怕被挖走。怕被挖走。因為他說挖走我又不能做，因為我倆老又下去做。所以那你如果想想看，如果說我們今天有這樣的認證機制開啟了，宜蘭那邊民宿業者附近的，可能想要工作的人，你們就可以知道我可以去上個課，我拿到了 Housekeeping 的認證，我就可以接我家附近民宿的 Housekeeping，而且一個小時給我比較多。那我覺得一天接個兩單三單我就夠了，我根本不用做什麼，我也一樣，不用做那麼久。對，我不用做那麼久，我又可以很舒服去享受我的人生。那我就覺得這不是一個願景，這不是一個美景，它是可以完成的。如果你今天講一個是，我無法完成的藍圖，我覺得那就空笑夢。那我覺得這是可以做，因為我就是想要你來啊。但你怎麼知道你會不會 Housekeeping？我覺得我現在光聽，大概半小時多，我對 Worky 有超級高的信任。
謝謝，謝謝。
因為我覺得它的未來的想像空間很大，而且市場上如果你們的這個定位，其實它沒有競品。你們其實只是在讓更多的人認識你們。
沒錯。
那 Worky 為什麼叫 Worky？
嗯哼。
我們創的一個字嘛，就是 Work 的 Key，打開工作的鑰匙，讓你的工作變 Easy。
哦，OK。
就是你不要那麼，你沒有那麼困難。
不愧是藝術家。
對。
大家不要覺得那麼困難，因為找工作好手好腳，你好好做一件事情。那那我們也希望你向上提升嘛，那那不知道怎麼提升，我還給你方法提升，我告訴你怎麼提升，我告訴你怎麼把你的產值提高。那那你為什麼又要小看自己呢？那那我們又透過機制來幫助你。對。那那我們也想辦法幫助店家 B 端老闆，你們相信我們平台做的機制，可以讓你們管理人，你相不相信？不然你不相信你去用用看其他工具，你就知道你可以相信我們多一點。因為別的人是不管你怎麼處理了嘛，他收好你的這個費用之後，他不知道怎麼去處理你，他不是他的事啊。對。那那我們不是，哎，都非我的員工喔，一個都不是我員工，因為我們就是中間的平台，但我們透過機制想辦法幫大家管理。
好。OK。
我覺得先幫大家下兩個 Call to Action。第一個是如果你今天是有開店的，你是商家，然後呢，你也有這種需要零工需求的人力，歡迎註冊 Worky 商家版。
是，是，是，是。
對，然後可以去配對媒合看看。因為我覺得我那時候註冊成，因為我兩個都有註冊。
使用者就是你可以選，你是哪個地區的。
對，對。
他直接幫你媒合，那個周圍的行業。
如果你是想要哎，打個零工的，賺點外快的，那就歡迎直接下載 Worky。
就是消費版 Worky，他後面沒有括號商家版的，就是工作者用的。
你就可以輸入。
那個就是也很簡單，身分證手機認證完了，然後你就選你在的地方，他幫你看你周圍有哪些工作機會了。
是。
對。
對。
所以我覺得這也是透過 AI 去讓大家可以找到離家近。
大家都想要錢多事少離家近。
沒錯，沒錯，沒錯。
那現在商家呢，你可能聽了還是覺得說，啊，那可能我還是需要多一點了解。也許你就是可以上我們的官網留資料，或是到我們的 IG，Worky 有 IG，我們自己的 IG，就再私訊你們。
也可以。
對，私訊我們，我們會派人跟你聯絡。我們非常樂意來服務所有的各行各業的老闆們，因為我們有 VIP 的服務。那我們的服務就是針對你的產業類別，那可能我們不了解，但是我們願意去了解你產業類別，然後我們有相對的一年多的經驗，我們可以幫你分解出，你可以怎麼用 Worky。因為很多人不懂工具，我們就來告訴你可以怎麼用，幫他拆解工作流程。然後你可以 Try。因為我們一開始 Try 不收費用。
但大家可能會，你就 Try 就好。
會想說，那這樣子都是你們在說嗎？其實因為 Worky 到累積到現在，其實已經加店家大概有大概 18 萬的用戶，光工作者就 17 萬，一年多很快。那其實以餐飲出發，其實我們一些大的王品、築間、Cama、錢都、欣葉、貳樓，就是其實一些大的品牌。吐司利亞、洪瑞珍還蠻多的。吐司利亞，吳寶春，有啦，撈王也來了。然後零售業，比如說像無印良品，也是我們的客戶。所以其實我覺得大家不用擔心，因為其實大的客戶，其實都在用了。
對，都在用了。
OK。OK。
好，所以就是大家真的有興趣，分兩個嘛，一個商家，大家我們的應該商家比較多，就去來註冊了解一下，哎，到底有沒有機會可以用到一個比較省力找到可能臨時工的方式。對。然後透過 Worky 這個工具。然後如果 To C 的話，就是哎，真的想要有額外賺外快嘛，那除了 Uber 以外的其他選擇之一。對。那我覺得這個就是一個很好的平台。介紹到這邊，我覺得非常清楚，然後願景跟使命等等都非常。
但我想聊前面這一段到底怎麼來？比如說現在兩位嘛，然後公司應該十來個人，不只，不只。
我們都蠻多人。
你們現在是怎麼分工？就是比如說兩位，兩位都是創辦人嘛。對。好，你們現在怎麼分工？尤其是夫妻創業，大家最忌諱，外面很多人說啦，因為我們以前也還沒訪過夫妻創業的，大家就會怕哎，夫妻創業好像風險蠻高的。你們自己怎麼看？然後你們怎麼分工？
其實我覺得，但其實就是信任。就是你要信任對方在做的這件事情。那那我們分工比較多就是，比如說找資源，就是我老公找，就對外，比如說有一些說明會，這種或是投資人，或是說由他的資源這邊來。那那主要就是管理內部。那他對我們的管理，比如說我們的機制，或是我們的業績成長，他就會很放心。他可能大概就是會問一些階段性問一些 KPI，那其實他就會很放心，因為有時候我們要做一些突破性的機制的時候，那他就很放心讓我們去做。
所以說其實這個就是一個分工。其實反而我們夫妻的爭吵，以前還比較多，沒有一起工作的時候。其實現在反而因為更理解，因為以前他的工作其實比較多是那種就是時間到了就去，可是不是每天有。然後我就會覺得，表演人員，我以前就算是 Worky 為什麼？沒有演藝圈的 Worky。然後一下去主持一下上通告。
沒錯，沒錯。
誰拍我我就去哪個電視台，哪天去拍個照，哪天去剪個綵，哪天去幹嘛幹嘛。那你知道遊戲公司後面幾年，其實我是很痛苦的，就是我是很辛苦，然後內心就是心情很差，因為你找不到突破的點。對。那他呢？那當然我也不會講，因為我講了，他可能感覺的出來，他會擔心，然後他可能問更多，我會心情更不好，我會覺得吼，你問這個，你也沒辦法幫我解決。其實那時候真的，因為我自己都解決不了，誰可以幫我解決？那我就不想說，然後我壓力就很大。那他可能也覺得啊，沒什麼事，反正就是該打球該幹嘛幹嘛啊。然後就你就會發現他怎麼一個禮拜打三天高爾夫球。然後我就覺得說，你過得很爽，我在這邊很苦，很不平衡。可是其實他也不知道。OK。所以那時候其實我們爭吵很多。
反而是現在，我看得到就是我們是一起努力。痛苦的時候就是兩個人很痛苦很辛苦的時候，然後一起為了，一個事情歡呼，共同的目標。對，然後就覺得哇，你這又拿什麼無印良品又拿下來了什麼的。真的，我會覺得那個同心的感覺，就是在這一年裡面，其實是，我覺得我們不會不適合一起工作，我覺得比較像是原本兩個生活型態完全不同的人，但在這個題目上找到了共同的目標跟願景，然後齊心一起努力。
我如果逼他進公司每天開會，我們的關係就會變很差，他就不行。就是我們要在擅長的事情上面。
應該講說就是說，簡單來講是，我覺得夫妻工作，一個最重要的，其實建立家庭，婚姻都跟經營事業一樣。你不能說我今天經營不下去，我就離婚，或是那動不動就離婚。所以台灣離婚率很高嘛。那既然建立了一個公司，我覺得要認出彼此。所謂認出彼此就是說，我要認清楚我太太的強項跟她的能力，而且我要是支持跟信任的。但相對來講，對方也要去互相認識對方。喔，我的能力在哪裡？可能我有我的工作的履歷，我的社會經驗，我也比她大八歲，我能夠接觸到的人脈資源跟等等，或是我有一些的邏輯性的東西，是有別於妳的專業的。是我看到一個邏輯之前，我可以跟妳講，我覺得這個東西不是這樣做，或是怎麼樣，我有一個建議。那大方向的東西，一艘大船，它一個小舵就可以知道它往哪邊走。Maybe 你這個意見看似不大，但是也許它就造成後面很大的影響。那我在這方面我就會想辦法去表達我的意見。就喔，覺得這個方向好像有點要注意喔。但是我們兩個就是說，比如說有時候在討論一件事情，因為有時候可能是開會，然後他有時候會參加，然後他提了一些意見，然後我就說，啊，這個不行。他也不會生氣，我不會生氣。他就會尊重我，這就是他講的認出彼此。
我就去外面喝水。
沒有啦。所以其實我覺得馬哥很像是 BD，或者是對，反正就是對外的這個代表，去把資源帶回來公司，把客戶帶回來公司。
對，比較像。
然後米姊就是類似 CEO，或是營運長，管理。
應該算 CEO 或 COO 啦，應該是這樣分。
你這就是對外打市場的。
我覺得我們對內對外，我們有一個默契。就是你剛剛講這個，那也沒有因為他是沒有職位，因為他沒有領薪水，我沒有領薪水，他沒有領薪水。我就是我是一個義務的工作者，然後有時候還要拿錢出來支持。好股東好創辦人。大家可能不了解我，我其實早在多年前我就轉型了。演藝圈我還是有人發我工作，真的大家不要誤會說演藝圈不要我，是我沒有時間安排在那上面。不是說我不，因為我自己知道，演藝圈從自媒體開始之後，我發覺我的行業類別是壓縮到不行，而且包括說我們現在，說實在台灣這個製作環境跟各方面，我們根本沒有辦法跟周圍的人比了啦。你只會越來越縮越縮。那那我們就因為有自媒體，我就想說，那我還是會不會保留我的自媒體？所以我就做自媒體，但是那個不是我收入來源。我其實是做保健品的。哦，我有做保健品的生意，而且我做五年了。那我有保健品的團隊，哦，我有很多的很好的商品，而且我的年營業額也很不錯。但就是我發覺，我在做保健品的經驗值當中，給我一個邏輯，就是我如果活得不健康，我的身心靈有問題，我賣保健品給你，你怎麼信得過我？對。所以我是告訴我自己，我要活得健康。所以我就運動，我們也開健身房。我的自媒體，我就傳遞比較好的方向的東西。內容。演藝圈的工作對我來講就是第一個，我的反應也比較及時，然後我對於行銷面比較有想法，因為我們個人就是 IP。你知道這為什麼？
一開始其實他是，就是我們想到的 Worky 這個。那當然是因為我們遊戲公司要轉型嘛，想了這個題目。對，要做那他也很支持。但那為什麼會被找，就是 involve 進來？其實因為一開始我們是，因為我失業。沒有啦，開玩笑。我們一開始是非常的不順，就是說這樣子，一個新的模式，大家甚至一開始覺得說你們，我們就是小雞上工，那你們跟小雞上工有什麼不一樣等等的。然後其實大家不能接受。那把他拉出去一起談，大家起碼會給他面子，那個信任度就有了。對，會給他面子，可能願意你給我們一個小時試試看這樣，或三十分鐘。OK。那所以他就一直被我們拉出來去見客，拉出來要去談的時候帶去，代言人這樣子。然後所以其實他從那時候開始加入，然後也給了很多很大的幫助。因為一開始其實我也會擔心，夫妻一起創業，而且我們以前其實很會吵架。然後反而在這個當中，我們其實在夫妻關係，然後我們自己也學習很多。
我跟你講啊，真的很多。因為我如果沒有介入這樣的一個合作，我沒有辦法了解我太太真的是很聰明哦。在幹嘛？喔，她那個叫智慧。她很多東西，她管理層面，甚至我跟你講，那真的是太猛了。然後我沒有辦法像她一樣，因為我就是一個突然間會放空。你要我突然間很有反應，我超快，但我突然間放空，我可能放空四十分鐘都在放空。我就是一個這樣的人。你知道就是我出去沒有 Plan。我出國旅遊我也不想要計畫，我就這樣。但你老婆是很縝密的安排。所以我們倆一定是互補。對。所以我說認出彼此。那我在看她開會，我覺得天哪，超讚的。我說天哪，你開會這個東西，突然變得好崇拜。對，我很崇拜。我說哇塞，這個才能，你怎麼可以想到這個東西？那比如說每次說明會，他要上去講的時候，我也很崇拜他。我覺得哇，你怎麼可以講的這麼有說服力？
舞臺魅力超強。
對。
以前在電視看，就長得吊兒郎當的樣子，現在這麼有用。
他就是演說家。因為我以前去過大陸，有參加那個我是演說家的節目，所以受過一個長期高壓的，一個這樣演說節目磨練。
磨練。
磨練。因為我一個藝人，然後要去跟所有素人來競爭，這樣的一個舞臺。然後我也覺得我要說什麼，我要去整理我的資訊，然後我要怎麼表達。然後我覺得現在這個年代，很多時候你做了很好的東西，你不會表達，你就輸人家很多。所以你要會講。
太厲害。
你說故事。那剛好我就擅長於這個東西。但當然我太太口才也很好。我不會吝嗇讚美我的太太。就哎，我覺得你這真的很厲害。因為有時候我發覺我真的就是一個，你知道單細胞生物，就是我只想到，想到什麼說什麼。對，對，就但她會想到很全面，還有邏輯縝密的全盤規劃。但我有時候想太多，但是很多時候內耗太久。所以才互補啊。但是很多時候很妙，就例如說我是單細胞生物，她是很多面的。但講到底層邏輯，我又很強，因為我老練，你知道我社會經驗還是有。老江湖，老江湖，老司機了。所以我就覺得，講講講講之後，她又會被我說服，說哎，你這樣講好像也對。所以其實夫妻創業啊，真的就是要認出彼此。
認出彼此。
認出彼此的強項。
真的關鍵認出彼此。
認出彼此的強項。
就是在一方面。
對。
要認出彼此。
我覺得夫妻就是互相要崇拜的地方。
沒錯，沒錯。
而且不是說一個競賽。這個很重要。
哇，真的。
你就變成了一個競賽，我要壓你，你要壓我。變成是你們彼此看對方的優點。
對。
而不是在嫌棄。
說啊，你怎麼這樣子。
你要就是，就是他如果來干涉我，我就會看到缺點。對。哎。啊，但是我覺得缺點你也要包容啊。對啊，哪有人完美的。啊，你如果有缺點不包容，那就找架吵了。那那我們現在也是還在，就不要這樣子。學習的過程。但我覺得這當中恩典很多。對。
可是我覺得光這一年，其實你們找到這種合作的默契，真的是超級不容易。
因為我們有信仰。
而且超級難得。
我必須要把這一切的就榮耀歸給上帝。是因為我沒有信仰當中，在我們裡面，當做一個兩個人中間的真理。不然我們兩個都在講道理，我們也是互相 Battle，互相 Battle 在講道理。你講你的，我講我的。再回到真理面前就 Shut up。但是，我跟你說，遇到困難的時候，兩個是一起哦，同心的，一起崩潰的。那個低氣壓低到你都覺得，這要怎麼過？那個低氣壓低到，就是真的就是我們兩個會這種開車開到哭的那種。我這樣講流淚灑種。就開車開到一半，然後就兩個人就爆哭。因為你一開始的時候，你有很多人懷疑啊，很多人不知道不了解你們啊，很多人對於你們會有很多的質疑。就是你會覺得怎麼推動這麼難？我們做了一個這麼不錯的東西，但。我從一開始說，OK，好，我來，我去介紹很多的廠商，他們因為知道有我，他們就願意說挪出時間來，找他們的。
可能 CEO 可能是 HR 可能是什麼什麼主管來。我也被洗臉很多啊。我被洗臉洗到就是，我被別人質疑。我第一個藝人角色，就覺得先把你看得比較綜藝一點。對對對。然後又覺得你在跟我講這東西，你懂不懂我不知道。然後我就被很多人 Challenge。但是我很謝謝每一個在當中，過程中 Challenge 我的人。因為我也看到我有哪些不足的地方。我也很開心是因為，以前 Challenge 我的，現在好多都來，都變客戶了。用 Worky。對。然後我就覺得，我又來 Aha! moment。我說 OK，謝謝你們。那我也不會去懟啦。我也不會去啊，你看你看，這人那時候還講我什麼。我也沒有辦法一下子告訴你，我要逼你說服你。那我也就等著，我們就等時間。但是等待的過程當中就會比較壓力，因為就是怎麼都還沒有開花結果。那我們就回想看很多的大企業，很多的這種，我們看到很多人的故事很精彩。你沒有血淚史你哪來什麼故事。其實我們是很有信心的啦。對啊。就是很多一開始沒有辦法接受，或是說他覺得他還要再考慮。我們就告訴自己，告訴團隊說他們有一天都會回來。對。那其實先用的你就是會享受到紅利嘛。對。就是當別人還在缺工的時候，你已經不缺了。那這個其實現在是一個很大的成績了啦。已經看得到了。很大的突破。謝謝大家。
就是對這個店家來說，所以其實最難的其實就是剛才講到這個 0 到 1 的過程。對對對。因為你一個新的平台，然後哎什麼東西都還沒有。對。然後因為你們又是做工具跟做平台。對。做平台最難的是先有雞還是先有蛋。對對對。其實還有最難，你怎麼平衡，還要把它做起來。最難的還有你剛剛講的補貼。對。這些都是壓力哦。就是我們一開始補貼嘛，是先讓人家用免費。那其實我們是今年 2025 年，25 年 4 月才開始收費。那所以說，其實我們的營收其實是今年才開始有。那我們的每一單都是賺零錢。我們的收費模式，其實就是使用了以後才付費。比如說時薪 200，那我們會另外多收 20%。但一開始是，我們會給你，比如說 5 次的免費，一般店家。那如果你是企業用戶的話，我們可以談，比如說訂閱制的方案。那其實這個營收的堆疊是比較慢的。那這個壓力是很大的。
我剛剛才正想問商業模式。我們其實是平台媒合，媒合我們是媒合制。你可以用派遣來理解，理解。但是其實是你自我派遣。因為他是 AI，因為他是自己選他要。告訴你說這個，你自己選你要的。店家審核過。對對對對。但是如果你走一個訂閱制的方案，其實你的趴數可以降低。OK。但是前面你在開始用或是試用的時候，其實你是免收費。5 次免費。額外就是多 20%。5 次免費。對。那額外，或是說你再走另外一個優惠的方案，訂閱制的模式，你的 20% 就會下降。對。那訂閱制我們會收一些的，這個企業管理的服務費。當然當然。因為我們幫你做一些你代管 HR，代管的。那你工作，你把你的班表給我。等於一部分的 HR 外包。對對對。外包給我們就收你這樣。那你看你的幾家店家，也合理啊。所以我們會有一個這樣子來。就包括勞健保，很多人都說那這樣勞健保怎麼辦。其實現在我們幫你處理啊。你就授權給我們，我們可以幫你做。以我自己是老闆來，我覺得超省心的。這個很瑣碎。時間到就會有人來。沒錯沒錯沒錯。這個真的是我們，因為我們是有一個營運經理，專門在負責這件事情。對。但每個月哦，會比較麻煩。也是很多。但是我說實在，因為我也常常跟店家，有時候我在聽他們 HR 的一個就是想法裡面會想說，其實 HR 在台灣很多的人，他們可能會覺得說，啊這樣很瑣碎很麻煩。但是因為如果老闆一直找不到人，其實對你公司整體影響力更麻煩。更麻煩。所以應該是說，你要積極想辦法用各種工具找到人來。找到人來。如果我是老闆，我再加個 HR，嗯，我再加個 HR，你們把這東西給我處理掉。我因為我一定會這樣做。因為你不要讓我整個都因為。
但其實不用了。後來我們就衍生出一個就服務啦，VIP 服務。但是我們呢，其實在談呢，就是很多人會介紹嘛，就是啊誰要認識誰認識誰。然後介紹我們只要談的是老闆。老闆都可以接受。老闆就超級接受。趕快趕快趕快。只要到。因為很痛啊。只要到 HR，就是前期啦，陣亡率蠻高的。對於 HR 會有他的成本考量。他會覺得多了一大筆要花。對。他會覺得他找我麻煩。可是老闆是全盤看嘛。對。這裡如果錢沒賺到，我這裡還耗在那邊更虧。而且就是說，因為我們是以餐飲服務，聚焦在這個重災區的這個行業類別啊。我們最近看到很多人自我，就是不用業務去跑，他就進來，自己加入，然後登記，然後我們稍微瞭解一下。很多是店家介紹店家。我覺得這個 Sense 很好。為什麼你知道？你一條街都在做生意的啊。我找到工具了。我這邊營運正常了。就你們都沒有知道這個 Worky。那你們這條街開始一個一個關了。那對我有什麼好處？哦集客效益要有啦。對。你不要就獨樂樂。你就哎，我在用這個，你們就用嘛。我說實在他其實就是人力共享年代。人力共享年代。就大家其實就是一個都更。就是各行業的都更。就是哎，你已經走到這個水位了，你應該都更你的模組，商業模組去因應現在的需求。你換工具的形態，跟你配置正職搭配兼職。把正職變成小主管。我們的 Worky 就是你的延伸手腳。你正職員工的延伸手腳。去管理這些需要的時候。你用他最精準的去用他這個人力。然後讓我的正職 Loading 降低。我正職還變得他比較喘得過，喘得過氣來。他的上班氛圍會變比較好。對。你就可以營運了。而且你算一算，你發覺哎，原來這樣，我人事成本也降低了。那我覺得我弄好了。那隔壁人家你怎麼生意那麼不好啊？你怎麼還在登？那那個就是我要招人招。去救救他。那我就跟你講一下，你要不要用用看。
我發覺現在已經開始是口碑出來了。很多口碑店家介紹店家。然後包括說個體戶，也都來。包括我們有這個樂華夜市，賣章魚燒的也來。章魚燒你不要看他章魚燒。很多人時候他旁邊有人手嘛。你看那個饒河街賣那個餅的有沒有？他光裝那個東西要有人啊。他有好多個 SOP 的動線，有好幾個排隊在那邊。因為人太多了。那您為什麼不把這些工作交給簡單嘛？讓重複性高，然後你讓他們戰力很強。因為他就是工作 4 小時，專注。他專注這 4 小時他就下班了。所以他不會很冗長，不會有冗員。對。不會浪費時間。因為尤其是像以前餐飲業，正職都有空班。哇，痛苦的要死。那兩個小時大家在打撲克牌，是也不是，打撲克牌，睡覺也不是，幹嘛幹嘛，什麼都不是。那你就覺得很怪。哇，真的很變成雙班我就用兩個 Worky 來的。搞不好還更省。沒錯沒錯沒錯。因為現在很多人那還有自由工作選擇。例如說我就喜歡半夜工作。哎，對。也有半夜班。我就睡不著嘛。那我就想半夜去找這種工作。或者我比較晚睡覺。那我可以去接一個早餐的工作。嗯。我就覺得我解決了我的問題。或者是什麼果菜市場。對。OK。果菜市場要出貨。魚貨市場要理貨。我跟你講，這些類別的，只要是工作，其實都跟 Worky 有關。嗯。只是這個工具，我們現在才第一代 iPhone 是第 17 代。所以 I'm very optimistic about next year 2026. We will launch new features, new mechanisms, our Plus. It will definitely make more bosses, merchants, B-end bosses, you may be retail, service, department stores, logistics, warehousing, manufacturing, you may not understand it now. Welcome to get to know us. Stay tuned. Stay tuned. We will also tell you how we will do it. OK. And you don't have to spend any money. Just register or do something. You can try Run Run to us to serve you. Until you feel, oh, we finally found a way. Then you can introduce it. Because you don't have to wait. Don't hesitate. When you hesitate, others may have already used it. The same is true for those around you. These people are all contained there. Then you quickly grab people. Quickly claim your territory. No, because people are fluid. Yes, people are fluid. You can't control anyone. Then if you are a good boss, others are willing to come. They will be willing to come. Yes, yes, yes. It's a two-way street. I think you two are really full of passion for this topic. Passion. Yes, still passionate after talking 100 times. Passionate. It represents that the track is chosen correctly. Yes. And because I think I'll supplement for the listeners. Because everyone may know Brother Ma, but Sister Mi's background is also extraordinary. Very powerful. Chairman and founder of Wei Shu Entertainment Technology. Yes. And also listed on the emerging stock market not long after starting. Now it is also an emerging stock company. So just now, yes, not making money anymore. We are down now. Yes, yes. No need to be attached. Because I think that was a milestone. Those are in the past. And because I understand my wife too well. Because in her industry category, she has already created. Why do people call her the most beautiful CEO? It's because when she was just starting out to start a business, she gambled her entire fortune and her entire ability. And she indeed made Pili Jianghu a success. She made one product worth several stock capital in a short period of time. So she created a historical position. People know 50 stock capital. 50. Wow, that's amazing. At that time. But I tell you, starting from scratch. Actually, it's also because of the experience in the game company that I know. Because the curve of games is like this. Yes. It's like at the beginning, for example, very fresh, the most people. Maybe within a week, you can determine the winner. So I told myself, I don't want to do this kind of business anymore. Because it's really hard. As soon as it goes down, you have to have new products to connect. Then you can maintain it. Or reach new heights. But it's always going downhill. In the past, Pili Jianghu could have a 3-year curve, even a 5-year curve. Because it was done very early. At that time, our competitor was God of War. There wasn't much else. Yes. We were in that era. But later, RO is even more different. It can generate hundreds of millions a month. But the cost is very high. Because you have to pay a lot to the original manufacturer. In the end, a product can only last for 6 months. And your cost is 10 times more expensive than before. Before, our CPA, a member purchase, cost 60. Now it's 600 to 900. Yes. How can you make money back? Yes. Of course, because the agency fees are not that expensive now. So it's also because of this that I decided we should do a business model that goes upwards. Yes. Her past achievements are all about starting over in Worky. Yes. We are starting over. Fortunately, the past experiences are all good nourishment. I also have my sensitivity. Because she said manpower, I said OK, I said OK, I fully support you doing this. I feel that this can be done. And I believe you can do it. And she can do it. Because you need to create a tool now. You don't have that DNA. She has managed those. Yes. You don't have that DNA. You might not be able to create a decent product. It should be said that what we say, we want to be king of mechanisms. So I think her past experience is really not wasted. She understands this. We hope to announce that in the future, everyone will hear that I am doing Worky. Or overseas, from Chinese-speaking regions, there is Worky. Or in the future, more people in the world will understand Worky. From Taiwan. Worky is a tool that everyone can use. So the current Worky is like a transformation from a game company. Transformation. Transformation. Out. So independent company. Initial capital. You mentioned it just now. Can we talk about this part? This initial capital and how to do it? Because as far as I know, it's definitely not making money now. Platforms are burning money. Yes, yes. So how long will it burn? Or what is the plan for this part? What might it look like? But because we are also heading towards capital. I don't know if some things can be said. But we ourselves, of course, have forecasted up to 2031. Wow. This is a very surprising number. That is to say, when it, of course, not profitable in 2031. We actually, we expect to go towards capital in about two years. So now, we are actually following the internal audit and control procedures. Initially, of course, the parent company invested. That is, Wei Shu. Uh-huh. Invested to do this product. Then after it became independent, we started looking for new shareholders. And now the shareholders are, besides ourselves continuing to invest personally. And our friends around us. We are currently focusing on friends. Because the capital required is quite large. Quite large. But we don't want the equity to be too concentrated. Yes. Yes. And of course, because your revenue hasn't come out, it's actually hard to find venture capital. We actually spent too much time on venture capital at the beginning. And then, actually, later, because we estimated that this business model is actually very profitable. Because as I said, before, I had to give 20 to the original manufacturer, 30 to iOS Google, and then spend 20-30% on advertising. But actually, I don't need to do this now. Look at Worky, there's almost no advertising. It relies on word of mouth. We just have about 1 million subsidies per month. And of course, there are others. But it's far less than our previous game company's advertising expenses. Before, a game company's monthly advertising expenses might be tens of millions. 30 or 50 million. Like RO, at that time, spent over 50 million a month. Yes. So, of course, it generated more revenue. Yes. Hundreds of millions. So, Worky is like this, slowly building, slowly advancing. And there's no need to worry too much. We have already found the profit point, Product Market Fit. The hardest part at the beginning is over. We started charging from April 1st. We started having revenue. From April 1st, you started having revenue. Until now, what we fear most is that as soon as people hear about charging, they stop playing. They don't use it anymore. Then we found that there was a 10% drop. We said, oh, a 10% drop. It's still within controllable range. Then the 10% came back. Because they need to use manpower. Yes. And we also found that it's already December. So the two of us can be more smiling. Not that it's that big. It's growing steadily at over 30% per month. For a startup, it's healthy. And we are only targeting the first year. We are only targeting the catering industry. We haven't opened up more industries yet. So you know why the forecast is estimated until 2031. Because we can see data from various industries. We can't just make something up. We derive it from the Directorate-General of Budget, Accounting and Statistics, from various data. How many people are non-typical laborers? How much is their salary? From there, we calculate the proportion in each industry. Then we calculate the market size. Then we realize that it's like the scene I see before me now. We thought we were looking at a house. Then we looked and wow, it's such a big map. We feel that because it's all the same, it's a problem of work and demand. It hasn't changed. It's all supply. It's just the difference in each industry category. So the market scale is much larger than we imagined. The prospect is very, very large. The most stressful time, of course, I think it's in sales. That was at the beginning. But then finding investment, for example, in the venture capital stage, we spent a lot of time. Indeed. Later, we found that at this stage, it's not suitable to find venture capital. Let's find angels. Venture capital is too early. Yes. And of course, when you find them, they ask you, if I invest one dollar, when can I earn ten dollars? And then we start calculating. Because we originally forecasted only for 3 years. Then we start calculating when it can be. And then we calculate downwards. How big is this market? We have also learned a lot. At first, we just wanted to be the Uber of people. We wanted to be global. But we never thought about how big Taiwan can be. Then we started calculating. Because we are a game company. We are good at data. We are good at calculating. We look at all kinds of backends and data every day. We started adjusting data, calculating, calculating. Later, after calculating, we indeed found a very sweet spot. So I discussed with my husband. Why don't we find friends? This is a business where one dollar can earn ten dollars. We invest ourselves. So we invest ourselves again. So I say she has to be responsible for paying. She can't get paid. She has to bring resources. And then we find friends to join. I'm very happy. Because I think money is just a number. Yes. I think it's just a number. And I think there will be pressure. How can entrepreneurship not have pressure? We also saw that movie, Crazy Unicorn. The more we watch, the more we see. Yes, yes, yes. We visited. Yes, yes, yes. I visited last month. After watching that, I was cycling and shedding tears. Isn't that our situation? Because it was a difficult time. This is our current situation. Later, we got through that point. Look, it's also capital. It's difficult in terms of capital. Actually, I didn't understand before. I used to think it was too smooth. Yes. Yes. You're right. Thank you for saying that. Because it was too smooth. Smooth sailing. And the numbers were large. Yes. She didn't expect that now we have to start from scratch. How to say, wow, this data that we used to think was easy to get with a phone call is now so difficult. And people doubt you, question you. You will face all sorts of things. Because people think, your thing sounds good. Good. And then, because Taiwan is not a good venture capital environment. Taiwan's venture capital. Friends who came back from the US told me, I tell you, Taiwan's venture capital environment. The US is really from where to where. This so-called venture capital, they really look at logic. Taiwan looks at your finances. Taiwan looks at your reports. Taiwan needs to look at how you do what. Taiwan doesn't have this. That is, as we say, they understand better. He said Taiwan doesn't have this. Because Americans look at your project logic. Tell me the logic. I want to see your underlying logic. Your logic is correct. Your business model is correct. Invest. Invest heavily. Because their market is larger. Yes. And they look at Taiwan. Taiwan's market is too small. Taiwan has advantages. OK, then we will follow. But I don't think it's wrong. I also thank them for the experience. But indeed, we spent a lot of time. We thought it was simple. Oh, this great thing is coming. How to talk? Then one by one, they all said no. And often there was no follow-up. And then they needed DD, what else. We kept preparing materials for them. It took your time. I don't know how to call you to ask. Yes. And then later, I thought, it's okay. Let's do it now. Indeed, we have also survived the so-called death valley. Death valley. We are moving forward now. Frankly, we are doing catering services. We are also making money. Yes. Just doing this part well, we can make money. But it's just that we really feel that because there's a labor shortage everywhere, there must be a demand. So we will think, well, if that's the case, how should the mechanism be designed? So what my wife thinks, I just give a logic, and my wife can plan for next year. She already knows what to do for her children's holidays next year. She plans for a year ahead. What kind of J person or P person? Anyway, she's a planner. She's super J. So you know why her forecast can be so long. And it's also because of her foresight. Look, someone also said, well, let me ask you a question. Now everyone is using AI robots. What about AI robots in the future? I say AI robots, AI robots can also post jobs on Worky. Yes. And then Boss Bao said, Agents and Agents match each other. Yes, yes. We have also thought about this aspect. Then there is AI. It is indeed squeezing a lot of white-collar workers. In the future, many white-collar workers with high education, excellent professional skills and technology may have no use for their skills. Because AI may replace some people. And it's not blue-collar. It might be white-collar. What about white-collar workers? They need flexible work. It comes back to this logic. They still need to work. You can't do nothing. Like Musk said, wow, Musk's dream, humans won't have to work in the future. I don't understand. Sorry, we are not that wise. I don't understand. I would think, how is that possible? I still have to work. Otherwise, you support me. How can I not have to work? What is that generation like? I may not understand it. But I only know that I want to give work to those who really need it. This is what we feel is a mission. Social responsibility. Yes, yes. Please, everyone, don't make it so difficult. Come and use this. As long as you work hard, you can also arrange your time freely. You can take care of your life and have your own income. And don't engage in fraud. So we want to announce that from January, Worky will be able to, for example, find jobs in the hospitality industry, housekeeping jobs. You can already find them on the platform. We will open a certification mechanism. Cooperate with a certification agency. Combine with internship hours to cultivate people. Cultivate housekeeping people. Yes. Then in March, we will open personalized dispatch. Currently, businesses can use your business registration. But next, if my family needs someone to clean, I can start in March. Cleaning is one part. Or I need someone. Like abroad, dog walking. Similar phased gardening cleaning. Or delivery. Delivery is also possible. Pet sitter. Home care. For example, if you need your elderly at home to change bandages. This can also be done. Nasogastric tube insertion requires a nursing license. Or wound debridement, accompanying medication. Anyway, I saw an interesting news story abroad once. They said they saw a black person in different work situations. He was a building manager, then a nurse, then a gardener, and so on. Then they caught this person at different times and asked why he had so many jobs. Later, they researched this in the US. It turns out this is the norm. Now it's AKA. You know, Xiao Ma is AKA, a speaker. AKA, an artist. AKA, a slash. AKA, what else. I tell you, the equipment for people in the future will be like this. Yes. People in the future, don't think you're locked into one job. You should have various professional skills. Or non-professional skills. Or experience in labor work. Because with this kind of allocation, you will feel that life is quite interesting. I can go wash dishes in the back if I don't want to talk. Go learn new things. Yes, yes. If I like interacting with people, I'll interact with people. So various jobs are possible. And through professional skill improvement, I can learn housekeeping, home cleaning, what else. But these are the equipment because I can freely allocate the time and direction to find work. And this combination for people in the future is a full-time job status. Yes. It's a full-time job status. It's not a diversified composition. Yes, diversified composition. You can't say it's non-typical now. Maybe it will become typical in the future. Yes. It's quite cool. Yes, because I think the current mindset should be open-minded. I'm not like before, oh, I graduated from school, I can only do this. Yes, only do this. Come on. It's not like that. Why can't we have money? We are also non-typical. Yes, yes. I just said my artist is also non-typical. Sometimes they ask me to do this, sometimes that. I'm non-typical. I also learned from it. I wasn't born a professional graduate. I don't know how to host. So I learned to host. I don't go to compete with others. I just follow and learn, learn, learn. So my job items have increased. Yes. People look for me. That's my tool for making money. Yes. The things I can do are many. The things I can do. So I also encourage everyone not to underestimate themselves. There are many things you can do. Open up your career. You will be freer in the future. Only then will you be freer. Because I can do anything. And I do it quite well. And I'm not too tired. Because you don't have to think too much. You can use your mind to live your life. Use your mind to play games. Use your mind to do whatever. Anyway, people live to be happy. Yes. And don't be a corporate slave. Look at more different job channels. And understand. If I learn, I will learn. And we also encourage everyone to do it. Because this is definitely a trend of this era. Because I really like what was just said. Open your horizons, and you will be freer. Yes, you will open up. You will be freer. You can't go back. Really, really can't go back. After Uber came out, this type of work is irreversible. Yes. Are there similar platforms abroad? Yes. Like Timee in Japan. Timee started 5 years earlier than us. It's funny to say. At first, I was thinking of the name. I originally wanted to say, Time is money. Then I said, let's call it Timey. I said, let's call it Timey. Time is money. And the art department designed it. And when we were about to register, someone suddenly called. Hey, boss, sorry. We found a similar company. It's called Timee. It's in Japan. Just one character difference. I said, ah, there's this thing. We both looked. Ah, a bee. What is this? After research, it's doing this. OK. It's doing this kind of fragmented, non-typical worker platform. Yes. Oh, but because they don't have too many detailed mechanisms. So we felt, ah, there's a precedent. Yes. That company has already gone IPO. They are also listed. Yes. So I think this has great potential for benchmarking. Great potential for benchmarking. Are there any investors needed? Everyone can contact us. We have been hurt in venture capital. I think we should be inclusive. We also feel that, like now, our friends, besides me saying, you don't, you invest in me, thank you. Because you trust me. But please look at the business model. Please think calmly. Yes. Don't think because I bear a lot of pressure. But I'm not afraid. Because I'm not cheating. I'm not deceiving anyone. I just think there's a good thing. Why shouldn't I let you know? Let's do it together. Yes. And if friends are willing to say, ah, we also feel it's very good. Then come. Yes. Let's do this good thing together. Because and instead, these friends can leverage the power of the crowd. Because everyone knows a lot of bosses. Yes. Yes. And one introduces another. Wow, that's it. Yes, yes. I tell you, the momentum now. Sometimes our shareholders are so enthusiastic that we feel, hey, wait a minute. Don't be so rushed. Don't be so rushed. They contact me many times a day. I say, OK, slowly. They go to a restaurant every day. Have you used Worky? No, they are always introducing investors. Investors. Or introducing what. So now we are just, we need a forecast rhythm. Yes, we need a rhythm. Then we want to have resource partners. Of course, strategic investors. Strategic investment. Because we are no longer purely looking for a Rich Daddy. This is not the case. We are looking for recognition. Not like this. We are not trying to persuade. If I still have to persuade you, it means you don't recognize it enough. In this regard, you see the same vision as us. Yes. Yes. Wow, I'm really looking forward to it. I'm also looking forward to this topic being discussed today. Because I originally heard some fragments. Because the platforms that are currently exposed are still limited. It's only been over a year. But I think after talking today, the imagination space is super, super big. Super big. Yes. And first, there's a benchmark. And it's already IPO in Japan. So this business model has been verified to be feasible. Now there are 170,000 to 180,000 people. You know, the data from Taiwan's Directorate-General of Budget, Accounting and Statistics shows that there are over 2 million workers of this type in Taiwan. We have only done 170,000 to 180,000, less than 10%. So you know this. It can grow very fast. Maybe the next time we meet, it might double. It might be more than that. Because it will definitely, maybe 300,000. There will be an explosive breakthrough. I think every, I think it's already explosive. Because I heard the interview, it was at 90,000. Now it has doubled in less than a year. Yes, yes. And it has opened in all six major cities. We are now from Hsinchu. And we are not advertising. Tainan, Taichung, Miaoli, Changhua, Kaohsiung all have jobs. Friends in the eastern region, cheer up. Because we really don't know how to help you. Yes. But we really hope that in the future, ah, I want to go to Penghu to play. There are Worky jobs in Penghu. And I hope young people say, I want to go to Kenting to play. And suddenly I feel I don't have enough money for travel. Ah, I'll find a job near Kenting. Stay for two days. I'll have wages. I can go play. Anytime to earn money. Anytime to earn money. Stay for two more days. It's okay. I think it's good. The store needs me. I'll go do it now. Do it for a while. I can earn money. I think that's good too. It's very free to work anywhere. Super free. I can support myself anywhere. Yes, yes. And I'm not afraid of not having work. As long as you are willing to bend down. Don't, I tell you, many times I feel that my wife and I sometimes agree because we both started from the grassroots. I used to do props, which was very hard. I started from washing dishes. Like Jensen Huang, I started from washing dishes. I washed dishes until I was the manager of that restaurant. OK. Because I understand how to change the SOP. And I'm more serious about doing things. So the boss recognized my ability. And I'm quick. So I'm meticulous in the details. So I don't underestimate every job. It's helpful to you. Yes, yes. I think sometimes I love to preach. I find my personality. I really want to encourage young people. I've seen many people in many places. I've traveled to 60 countries. I've seen many people. They can happily live their lives. It depends on their attitude towards things. Yes. So let's not be overly ambitious or limit ourselves. Yes, yes, yes. I think we should really treat every job well. You will become better and better. Yes. This is indeed a life trajectory. Yes. And everything is building trust and reputation. Yes, yes. And your social network. Yes, yes. Because Worky has developed to this point in less than two years, it's all your past accumulation. Just like Brother Ma knows many people in the entertainment industry. So he has been in the industry for a long time. So he needs you to help everyone bring in resources. And because of the experience in the game industry, you can have data, teams, mechanisms, and design a great gamified tool for everyone to use. So all these past experiences are not wasted. Of course, we face dark moments in life. It sounds like it was at the beginning of Worky. The dark moment. So at that time, I especially want to talk about it. At that time, I felt, will it be like this? Will it not work out? Or will I grit my teeth and endure? I often feel, wow, we have reached the end now. What should we do? But fortunately, we have faith. OK. I think faith is that light. So I think people say, success depends on man, but destiny is in heaven. So sometimes you make a movie, spend 400 million, and then a major disaster happens. You don't need to release the 400 million because no one will watch it. So I think many things are irreversible. Steve Jobs, a great entrepreneur, is gone. People without destiny have no chance. So people with destiny should have hope every day. You shouldn't be desperate. Every day there are new possibilities. New things come to you every day. You don't know why. Why did this person call me? Why is this person willing to listen to what we say? So you never know. So why worry so much about tomorrow's unhappened events? You are consuming yourself. Yes. If I am consuming myself, stop. We pray. I pray. I say, wife, let's pray together. Let's hand tomorrow over to God. Then we'll sleep well. Because you'll have good energy tomorrow. Let's sleep. And then the next day, ah, often you'll encounter that. Suddenly turning a corner at the entrance of an alley, you meet a savior. OK. Then they become our investors. Ah, yes. Our friends. For no reason. I don't know why. But it's arranged like this. Faith is really important. Very important. So I think this gives us immense strength. I called him this morning. We met him again at a different place. Yes. And then said, I'm recording. I'm recording. Similar things. I said, I see him, I record. And then later, and also a friend who brought us a lot of resources. And also a very, very good partner. And I feel that, you asked us how we got through that valley of the shadow of death. I think as long as you are alive, you can get through it. Unless you have no life. Then you can't get through it. So you don't have to be afraid. Yes. Because being afraid is useless. Yes. And you are doing the right thing. If you really can't go on, you have to accept it. You have to accept it. But if you can go on, let's move forward. Every step is moving forward. You're right. I'm running that marathon. Next year I'm going to sign up for the 226. I'm going to run 226 kilometers. I'm also training hard. I can't say I signed up and didn't train hard. So I told my wife, I think the day of the 226 race, I'll set my mindset to over ten hours of suffering in sports. But what I get is a year of self-discipline. This year of self-discipline is that I accumulate that self-discipline and it becomes my habit. Yes. So what I get is the most important part, not the 226. So logically, I think you have to endure. Every step I take is to go back. I want to reach the finish line. Otherwise, you can give up in the middle. No, I have to walk back. I think the mindset is great. So you just walk back. So I say, what we are doing with Worky now is the same. We are running the 226. We have to walk back to it. We have to crawl back on our knees. I'd rather crawl on my knees and ask for your help. I won't pretend that I'm unwilling to bend. Face doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Yes, really. I beg you. Help me. Thank you for helping me. Try it first. Yes, try it first. Or sometimes, what, what, I think this is not easy. Because it must be, in my cognition, entertainers are relatively more concerned. No, I think this is something we need to learn. And we feel that there's no need. You need resources for many things. Worky is just a child. It needs resources. Yes. So you have to be humble enough to beg others. And you might need others to give you a chance. We have had countless times. We have made appointments, but they forgot. OK. And we might be waiting there. That's okay. And we go back again. And then we go again. I think we should still thank the friends who gave us opportunities. And the manufacturers. Yes. Yes. I think it's pretty good. A good experience. I think really, both of you have great entrepreneurial qualities. First, you are optimistic. Second, you have faith. So you believe that if what you are doing is the right thing, it is beneficial to everyone and meaningful to society. And you have taken on another mission, a social responsibility. Ah, and you will do it without hesitation. It must be done. Aha! moment. I love this sentence. I feel that I have lived to 52 years old, and I have done such a cool thing. And I think this is really hard to express to others. One day I also want to share this. It's not about achieving anything. Because I really can't take anything away from life. You can't take anything away. The only thing you can do is to benefit others. And I often share with my friends. When you solve others' difficulties, you also benefit yourself. This is reasonable. Our pastor said that he attended many memorial services. He said you can't imagine a person who might have interacted with you before, but after being pushed in, only a pile of ashes is left. What can you take away? You can't take anything away. Yes. So what we are doing, we will also think from this original intention. And because I play games, I know that playing games brings a sense of accomplishment. Why do so many people like to play games? Because they get a sense of accomplishment in them. Why was I a game addict before? Because I got a sense of accomplishment in them. But today, Worky, the mechanism we designed, is to make these grassroots workers start their life RPG. I let you be recognized. How long has it been since you received recognition from your boss? Here you can get recognition. You can get five stars. You can exchange it for money, for bonuses. This is recognition. Slowly, you can accumulate a sense of accomplishment. You won't feel that you are at the bottom of society. Or that you can rely on your efforts. This is a normal and reasonable thing. And what we want to bring is this. Let trust return to human relationships again. Through mechanisms. Yes. Yes. I think really, every path is not wasted. Especially I am happy to hear that both of you, as a couple, are working together on this topic. Because it sounds like there were arguments before. Misunderstanding each other. Yes. But after working together, you see each other's strengths, praise each other, and are willing to do it without hesitation for this topic. Yes. I think this is really rare and precious. The more I look at her, the more she looks like Tsai Jolin from Fujin Street. The more I look, the more beautiful she is. Thank you, thank you. OK, because, OK, today, due to time constraints, I have two final questions. I'll ask Brother Ma first. What is the best financial advice you have ever received in your life? I think the best financial advice is to buy real estate. Oh. I don't understand stocks. I don't understand investment. My previous cash income was, I earned money from performing. Or I earned money from working. And I didn't know how money couldn't stay in my pocket for too long. Later, I began to understand that I needed to save money. So I didn't spend money and saved it. Later, in real estate, I indeed tasted the sweet spot. Because I have some talent. I'm good at choosing houses. OK. I have some talent. I'm good at seeing the characteristics of houses. I know that if I buy this house and renovate it with a little aesthetic touch, the next person will be eager to buy my house. I have this talent. So I continuously upgraded from small houses to medium-sized houses to large houses. Every house I bought was profitable. It's all because I looked at the problem very precisely. Including my luck. I often bought at the lowest point. But the housing market is not so good now. Yes. I dare to buy and dare to enter. And turn it into a doubled asset. Yes, yes, yes. OK. Sister Mi? Buy Bitcoin. Oh. Hahaha. At what price did you buy it? You know, there's such a big difference between us. OK. Are you saying it's an age gap? No, no. I'm 8 years younger. OK, let you. I personally suggest, buy Bitcoin regularly. You don't need to chase. Don't look at it. Just keep it long-term. So I think regular purchases are a good investment. Yes. Virtual currency. We, as a couple, have discussed this issue. I also agree with investing. So I say, let's do it regularly. So I say, OK, no problem. And I also found that, fixed time, fixed amount. We saw in Canada and the US that there are machines where you can directly exchange Bitcoin for cash. So it represents that it has been recognized by so many advanced countries. It's a recognized form of virtual currency. It's already an asset. Yes, yes, it's an asset. So I think, my daughter is now 7 years old. In the future, what can many fathers and mothers give you? What can we give? Perhaps Bitcoin is one. But we have actually sold some Bitcoin and invested it. Invested in what? Invested in Worky. I thought, how advanced. Because we always hear about parents saving 0050 for their children. You save Bitcoin for your children from a young age. Honestly, honestly. If you are a parent who saves red envelopes for your child, you might as well buy Bitcoin. Just put it there. And if you receive 20,000 this year, buy 20,000. Whatever you receive this year, buy it. Just put it there. Don't worry about it. But any financial investment has a certain risk. Yes, yes. It depends on your investment. The above does not constitute investment advice. It's for us. Because you have also understood it. Yes. My first is understanding. The second is your mindset. Yes. If you want to invest for high short-term profits and high risk, you will be cut like leeks. That's because you may have a problem with your investment mindset. We are talking about Bitcoin. Yes. Not other coins. Yes, yes. But don't use this mindset for financial investment. I think it will be easier. But if you invest long-term, and do things slowly and steadily, I think it is currently what I define it as. I have also looked at the world. You see, ah, the US. I have traveled to 60 countries. So do you want to change your answer? Hahaha, no. Today, we are not debating as a couple. We have only 4 minutes left. Bitcoin profits are fine. Fine. Invest in real estate. OK. Due to time constraints, and finally, I want to ask one last question. It's also a question we always ask. But because we have 4 minutes left. What are the three viewpoints or three values that have most influenced Brother Ma's life? Can you share them quickly? Faith. Nothing else. Only one. Faith. Faith. Because I think faith has changed my life. Because I am a new creation. I understand the source of life. I roughly know what my life is like. A new design. Because God gives us his spirit. So I say there is a Holy Spirit inside me telling me. Through my understanding. Through my reading and understanding of the Bible, I know that this is a human instruction manual. So my three views, my any views, all come from the teachings of the Bible. It tells me how to be a person. I think a new creation. A new creation. Otherwise, I don't know how to change myself. And you also got through the lowest point with faith. It was also with faith. Sister Mi? I might not be able to say three, but the core is that I tell myself that I will not be influenced by the environment. I will not look at the difficulties of the environment. For example, if I have to do something today, for example, ah, let's talk about advertising. Before, in games, when advertising, they would say, ah, now, because there are many competitors. But I don't look at competitors. I only look at whether I have done my job well. So this is also why I can always break through. I will not rationalize everything. For example, if I'm not doing well now, it's reasonable because the environment is not good. Yes. Yes. So I will try to exclude this factor. And then, when you are doing something, or making a decision, if you think someone will be hurt, then don't do it. So I think relationships are the most important. And faith also taught me this. And also, if you feel something is strange, then don't do it. This is related to many things. Not grounded. Yes. This is what we ask ourselves when making many decisions. Are you rationalizing your failure? Or rationalizing this situation? Then you will go further down. Yes, yes. Or, will this decision hurt others? Or do you have peace in your heart? OK. Yes, I think this is a very important underlying logic. Constantly examining what you are doing. OK. And today, due to time constraints, thank you again, Brother Ma. Thank you, thank you. And Sister Mi, for gracing our channel. Thank you. We've talked about many interesting things. Of course, I think for our channel's audience, if you have a store, or if you have a labor shortage, you are welcome to download and register Worky. Try the thrill of finding odd jobs through matching. And you'll become a loyal customer. Yes. If you want to try multiple income sources, you are also welcome to download the consumer version of Worky and try different jobs. Yes. So thank you all again. So both links will be in the program information. So thank you all for listening today. And if you like our program, don't forget to subscribe and follow. We'll see you in the next episode. Everyone, bye-bye. Bye-bye.