EXCLUSIVE: This MEGAMILLIONAIRE Is Betting Big On TESLA | Chris Camillo

I think Tesla will show us something impressive with Optimus in the next 6 to 12 months. Impressive enough that people will wake up and they'll say, "Now is the time. Now is the time. I got to place my bet on robots." And there's only one way to do it. If you're a retail investor, it's Tesla. And so that price discovery cycle, I think, is going to be more interesting than what we saw in the early 2020s with the Tesla cars. I I I think it's going to be wild, quite honestly. 10x minimum. Yeah, I think so. I think it has a shot at that. I absolutely do.

Transparently, again, at today's current value valuations, uh 8 figures invested in each of the two uh private companies. So, we have Aptronic in Austin and that's backed by Google DeepMind and we have Figure in San Francisco. Uh I intend to have due to the liquidity of public markets uh and the ability to put leverage on uh through options, I intend on having an even larger investment here in the near future in Tesla, which is obviously the only public market play currently uh within the humanoid space. So all I care about is when the market starts to pay attention to that. Uh, when the market starts to shift their attention to Optimus, that's when I'm putting my trade on the big trade.

Chris Camila made millions spotting trends before Wall Street even noticed them. What is he saying now? He's sounding an alarm or the opportunity bell on something huge. Humanoid robots. Not 10 years from now, not sci-fi right now. And guess who's at the center of it all? Tesla and a select few other humanoid bot companies he's really excited about. Chris says this is the next trillion dollar wave and investors might be massively underestimating it. Let's break down Chris's investment thesis and what he thinks is Elon's real endgame and what it could mean for you and what it could mean for your Tesla shares.

Chris Camilillo is an investor best known for growing a $20,000 brokerage account into $60 million without following any conventional investment strategies. His returns over a 16-year period were documented in Jack Schwagger's book, Unknown Market Wizards, where he was featured as one of the top performing traders in the world. He's co-host of the DumbMoney Live podcast on YouTube found at dumbmoney.tv. Welcome, Chris. Thank you for joining me again. Anytime. One of one of my favorites. [Music] You are one of my favorites. I love talking to you. You and I have started talking a year ago. You very excited as I am about the humanoid bot investment. The thing about you, of course, is you spot trends and uh so far you've been calling it correctly. We'll go through not only this big idea of humanoid bots. I think by now people were laughing a year ago. No one's laughing now. But what you've done is your timing and which bot companies and why. That's what we're going to cover. So, first tell me about the humanoid I bought as an investment. What is your thesis?

Well, you know, I lately I like to call it the infinite labor machine. Because I don't know that there's anything more valuable than that once it's created, right? And that's exactly what this is. It's a generalized infinite labor machine that will be able to do any manual labor job on Earth and many more we can't even dream of or ones that we quite honestly we wouldn't and can't do as humans. So I don't think that economically there's ever been an invention more important. And you know if you would have asked me 3 years ago I would have said you know 75% chance I think this is going to happen in a reasonable time window to where guys like you and me can enjoy the the the benefit of that invention. And if you would have asked me I guess a year and a half ago I would have said 90%. And you know, as of like six months ago, six, seven months ago, based on everything I've seen with my own eyes up close, um, and also as I've kind of seen the acceleration of the space and have been talking to at least one CEO in the space for seven and a half years now, uh, I'm at 100%. Not 99, not 99.9, it's 100%. I think we can sit here and talk about timelines and we could talk about who the winners are ultimately, but there's no doubt in my mind that this is now racing towards us in single-digit years. And as an investor, I can't even I can't even think of anything bigger, which is why I've been telling everyone like the biggest trades of our lifetime are coming here in the next couple years, two, three years.

You spotted this early and you deep dive. You went into studying the market. you've studied the companies. So what are the companies that you've invested in? How much have you invested in them? And why did you pick these particular companies?

Yeah. So I have, you know, at today's current valuations, I have uh transparently uh again at today's current value valuations uh eight figures invested in each of the two uh private companies. Um uh so we have Aptronic in Austin and that's backed by Google DeepMind and we have Figure in San Francisco. Uh I intend to have due to the liquidity of public markets uh and the ability to put leverage on uh through options. I intend on having an even larger investment here in the near future in Tesla, which is obviously the only public market play currently uh within the humanoid space.

Now, you know, I've been talking a lot about Tesla and humanoids going back a year and a half. Everyone keeps asking me, have you put the trade on? Have you put the trade on? It's not a binary event for me. It's not like I have the trade on or I don't. I know where I ultimately want to be in terms of my leverage and the size of that trade and I'm nowhere near that right now. There were a couple points in the past five six months where I had approached like 50% of that level uh maybe even 70% of that level for a short period of time. And I've since pulled back considerably to the to the point where I had almost no investment in Tesla up until last night uh when I kind of put my core Tesla long position back on post earnings. Now it's still I would say 20% of where I want it to be, right? Maybe 15% of where I want it to be long term. And there are things that I'm looking for that I thought might happen by now. Uh but they haven't happened yet. And so like uh basically, you know, in a nutshell, uh you know this, the only thing I care about when it comes to Tesla's humanoids. I have less than zero interest in their automotive division. I've always have I I'm from the automotive industry. I hate car companies. uh just in terms of like from an investor's P you know POV uh I think FSD is potentially super exciting cyber you know cyber cab like that's super exciting for Tesla but it's not even remotely scratching the surface of what embodied AI and humanoids can and likely will be for the company. So all I care about is when the market starts to pay attention to that. Uh when the market starts to shift their attention to Optimus, that's when I'm putting my trade on the big trade. Uh I don't want to do it before then because why would I want to take the market risk? Why would I want to take the risk of the automotive division? Why would I want to take quite honestly for me even the risk of like uh the cyber cab, right? like I like I don't need that risk if it doesn't happen as quickly or there there's there's an accident, right? I don't want it. I I only want Optimus. So, uh I don't know exactly when that's going to happen, but I still suspect that it will likely happen this year, maybe the end of this year. And if not, I I I strongly suspect it would happen in the first half of 2016. So, you know, over the course of the next year, I would assume that I would be likely to put that trade on at a at a much larger level. Um, it's the it's I mean, you can't even frame it relative to the rest of Tesla. You hear Elon talking about it, and I know most people hear Elon say things like, "This is infinitely larger than everything Tesla has done before it, right? and like it's a multitude larger and you don't know whether to believe him or not cuz he blows a lot of smoke and he did blow some smoke last night. I could talk about it in his earnings but but I think that's that that's a true statement. That's a statement I definitely want even independent of what Elon says. I've been saying that before Elon ever said that. I said this is going to dwarf every other piece of Tesla.

So so what what happened? So, you said that you put in a core earning uh in position after the earnings. You said two things happened. What was it that made you decide, okay, I'm going to get in after earnings for robotics?

Well, well, the earnings were terrible, as you know, right? And we got it out of the way. Uh there's obviously some there's always going to be political risk. There's always going to be automotive risk. It could definitely get worse, but I I had seen enough of the negative news related to automotive and political Elon, right? He said he's going to spend more time more he gets it. He sees he feels the pain, you know, he feels the pain of what's happened. He's talked about it. So, I've been waiting for that. I've been waiting for him to reorient himself. And I think maybe the worst is in. Either way, it's everything is a risk-reward decision, right? Like you have to you have to balance the risk-reward. After last night, after we got those terrible earnings out of the way and he started to reorient himself towards Tesla, he started to reorient the narrative away from automotive again, right? And and kind of focus again on on Optimus to some extent. it. I I had to put my core position back on. Now, we we'll see where it goes from here. There's no promise. Like, I I'm just I'm like anyone else. I know what I want to do. I know what I'm looking for, but I haven't seen it yet. when everyone reshifts their focus to Optimus, maybe it's some additional videos, it's some breakthroughs, it's, you know, I think what it's going to take uh is Tesla really showing that they are in a leadership position. We've seen a lot of videos from a lot of other companies. I know things that are happening behind the scenes that are pretty impressive. All right? And we have to see it from Elon and Tesla. He has to show us that he's at the top of this sector, at the top of this game. I I know he can be I know he can be a top three company globally in this space, but he has to show other investors that that's true.

Let me let me tell you why I think institutional Wall Street isn't paying attention to Tesla as it relates to Optimus yet. Uh I've heard that you know first of all they don't trust Elon obviously. Uh I think they have a lot more trust in Jensen at Nvidia and Jensen has been you know talking about humanoids embodied AI robotics now for a year and he's accelerating uh the degree of chatter uh and confidence that he has in the space and from what I understand uh especially coming out of the Nvidia conference recently was about a month ago now he has been communicating to people in capital markets. So this could be hedge funds, VCs, sellside banks, analysts. Uh his narrative is that we're 3 to 5 years away from from hitting like the scaling laws to where you start to really start to see massive acceleration in robotics and humanoids. So if you believe Jensen and I think institutional Wall Street, he Jensen is the kind of the go-to right voice here, not Elon. and they believe him. They're like, "Well, if it's three to five years away, that's not going to be our focus at Tesla right now." But they are turning their focus to earlier stage companies at lower valuations that they believe will also be in a leadership position when this industry starts to mature over the next five, six years. And they're placing starting to place their bets there. That's what we've seen over the past couple of months uh on both the software side as well as the hardware side. And you've seen these valuations and these fundraising rounds start to really ramp up in the space. They're like we can we can invest in Tesla later uh as it relates to Optimus. So I I feel that that's the narrative that's happening behind the scenes and why the hedge funds aren't racing to Tesla for Optimus because they feel that the humanoid trade is not happening anytime soon. Now no one wants to be too late but you don't want to be that early either, right? So, uh, you know, every dollar has an opportunity cost as an investor. And if you're a hedge fund and you feel that we're years away from seeing meaningful scalable improvements that are going to materialize this multi-trillion dollar sector, you probably think you have a little bit of time right now before you have to go all in on a controversial name like Tesla that's going to potentially get you some political blowback with with your LPs. Okay, depending on who they are. uh that you're going to have to take on a lot of risk relative to automotive and politics and even FSD whether you're a believer in that or not and cyber taxing like so it there's a lot going on here behind the scenes if you want to dissect the psychology of the institutional investor what they know about this space how they plan to invest in the space and what their timing looks like and who's feeding them the information they're not they're probably not listening so much to me and you but listen to Jensen, right? And so what he says is what they initially are going to believe. And I'm not saying he's wrong. I think the reason why he's saying that is because he wants to be the chip provider, right? He wants to be the chip provider for embodied AI. And he says he can't do that as well right now because every one of these robotics and humanoid companies are on different architectures. they're using different circuitry and it's really difficult for him to accelerate uh the scaling laws with chips in that space. If everybody's operating differently and he believes they're going to coalesce around more of a uniform platform uh over the next few years, I think he's probably right. Um I have a similar thesis around the hardware itself and we know Elon is talking about scaling Optimus. We know that Brett Adcock is talking a lot about scaling uh figure AI's humanoid and I I love Elon and I love Brett. Okay. Okay. And I and and I and I love both of those companies, but I'm not buying it. I am not buying that we are at a point to where we can confidently scale any of these form factors. Why? Because they haven't been tested. Okay? They've been tested in labs only. And anything that has been tested outside of a lab has been one, two, three robots operating part-time with lots of human oversight. We have no clue what the durability is on these hardware platforms. That goes for Optimus. It goes for Figure AI. It goes for Aptronic. And the truth is that we have CEOs that are going through fundraising. Plus, Elon's going through even you're like, "Oh, they're not raising money." Listen, Elon has to support that stock price. He has to sell the future, right? He has to sell his differentiation. What's the most obvious differentiation that the market believes he has is his manufacturing and scaling expertise. He also has more money than anyone else. So, he can go out and say, "I'm doing thousands of robots now, and I'm putting them to work." He can make thousands of robots now. He can put them to work doing really simple things inside of the Tesla ecosystem where they're not going to be videotaped. No one's allowed to talk about them if they are bad or if they don't perform as well as we would like them to perform. if they're a little too slow, if the durability is not there, if they're breaking down, he controls all of that narrative. And he's going to improve the form factor over the next two years, three years. Okay? And he doesn't care if he has to throw out thousands and thousands and thousands of bots that were a generation or two old that should have never really been scaled out to begin with. He doesn't care. He has the money and the resources to do that. in the interim, he's able to paint a picture and a narrative that he's scaling bigger and faster than anyone else. Okay? So, it's part of his strategy in my opinion and that's fine, but as an investor, we have to dissect what's the motivations, what are the incentives. Now, Brett Adcock, as we know, is doing a massive fundraising round raising billions, right? And listen, he's a CEO. He's got to sell. Well, he's got to paint the picture. Uh, I'm an investor. He's got to do what he's got to do. If he's going to raise this money at this huge valuation of what, like 38, 39,40 billion, hey, if he can raise a couple bill, awesome. More money for him and the company I'm invested in to do awesome things and to actually start to accelerate right on the on the technology. So, uh, but I'm not buying it. I'm not buying that anyone's ready to scale up. You know why? Cuz we are going to learn so much in the next 18 months when these humanoids actually start getting into production environment pilots. Okay? Not pilots in a lab that looks like a production environment at the end client a thousand miles away, but actually on their floor with their employees, training them, ramping up the speed to where you can't hide anything, and if your robot sucks, it sucks. And if it's great, it's great. But you know what I doubt's going to happen is that any of these first or second gen humanoid robots are going to be flawless. I know they're going to have problems with durability. I I just know it instinctively because if you look at the history of hardware, sophisticated hardware, novel technology, not one time in the history have we just kind of gone out with a gen one, Gen 2, Gen 3 product and it's been like boom, that's a trillion dollar product. Let's race with it. Absolutely not. This stuff, you know, this these are sophisticated pieces of equipment. They're generalized, okay? They're taking massive amounts of abuse every time they step on the floor, right? Every time they move their arms. These are not precision robots. So, they're constantly operating and moving in ways that are not the same every, you know, every cycle. And so there could be, I always say this all the time, there could be wires fraying. There could be joints overheating. We could have connectors breaking. There are a lot of things going on in these humanoids. And I just do not believe that we're that close to the truly scalable product that any of these companies ultimately wants to scale with. Do I think we're 10 years away? No. I think we're single-digit years away. Uh and that's okay. So I'm I'm getting what you're saying here. Yeah. Fantastic.

I I interviewed a CEO I won't mention of I've interviewed 13 CEOs of multi of human robot companies and one had told me that their actuator lasts only 6 months. So if you think about it right I mean my elbow here has to last 70 80 years. Uh and many of us break down and that is like you know honed in on you know design for millennial I one of the big one of the big Chinese bot companies that's getting all the media attention. I heard that someone told me that their that their actuators uh if you're using them aggressively last two months. Okay. So the these are supposed to the don't get me wrong the actuators don't need to last as long as the robot but these are generally uh supposed to be like fiveyear life cycle humanoid time. That's kind of okay. Yeah, let me let me uh summarize what you've said here, which is makes a lot of sense. So, uh first of all, you we'll we'll dive deeper into all this, okay? But Tesla is the is a big winner. They're successful. They're going to be great. You want to put in a big position. Uh as earnings, they already put in a core position. You've been in and out. Uh but at some point, you expect that you're going to put in way more than you've comfortably, you've told me before, more than I comfortably feel I should into Tesla. At the same time, you've invested already early in Aptronic and Figure and I want to ask you why those two and just for full disclosure I personally also are invested in Aptronic and Figure and Tesla of course my big my big holdings and uh again you know knowing you and the you know you and I have been very excited about humanoid bots early and then at the same time though you did it for the two early ones because they're smaller lower valuations. You pick them out of the hundreds that are out there. Want to know why? And then but then the there's timing and then you're saying, "Okay, yes, the market is so big. You want to get in, but you have expectations that the scale won't happen this year. It'll happen in three years." And you've explained that some of these CEOs are going to say what they need to say for their motivations. Okay, so that's my summary. Tell me why you chose Aptronic and Figure.

So two different reasons. I've known the founders of Aptronic for like seven years. Uh I knew them when they were making exoskeletons for the defense department and for NASA. I did not invest at that time. I was introduced to them to invest. I said no. I laughed them off. I kept up with them over the years. I kept laughing them off. They were very persistent kids. Very persistent. They eventually m uh pivoted the entire company to humanoids. I thought that was actually insane. Uh I laughed him off again. And then I met with them a few years ago at South by Southwest. Uh their their CEO pulled me aside and said, "Chris, I promise you I am single-digit years away from having an articulating balanced bipedal humanoid." And he showed me the prototype. It was really impressive, but it wasn't doing anything. uh that can do real commercial and industrial work at close to human speed, an infinite labor machine. I told him, I said, "I don't know if I believe you." He explained to me why. He explained to me about all the work they were doing on actuators. They were having this hockey stick moment with actuator technology. Uh you know, Nick, his co-founders, one of the top actuator engineers in the world, uh designers in the world, and he said, "We're having a real moment here. They're getting cheaper. They're getting better. uh they're on their like 50th version or something of actuator. It's crazy. And so uh he also said that the sensor technology was improving their whole body control which one of their other co-founders helped uh invent like everything was happening at that moment in time but we didn't have AI okay there was no AI uh but he had this whole concept of this kind of like app store concept for software where they would leverage an ecosystem of software providers. I thought it was a really novel way to think about it and they would develop the software for each use case for the humanoid. So I made a small investment but I wrote it down to zero on my spreadsheet immediately because I didn't think it was going to go anywhere but I was like just in case this guy's right I'm going to write a small investment. Then I started networking with other VC guys who had kind of made some robotics investments because we all had at least one or two in our portfolio. One of them called me when Brett Adcock was doing his round, you know, a year, a year and a half ago, right? And said, ' Do you know anything about Figure? And Brett, I was like, "Yeah, a little bit, but like I'm not invested in it. I'm not so sure I'm buying into it. Uh, I'm kind of, you know, I made an investment upon, but he's like, well, they're backed by OpenAI and by Microsoft, and they're raising at like a $2 billion valuation." I'm like, "What? They're raising like 700 million?" I was like, "That's not possible." I got on a Zoom with Brett. I I liked a lot what I heard. Um I invested initially because of the OpenAI relationship which as we all know no longer exists between with Figure. Um but I was invited to actually go out and visit Figure last summer and I got to spend some time with their top engineers and I got to actually see what they were working on. And I can't speak specifically to any of this stuff because I'm under NDA, but I was actually quite impressed. I thought the engineers were awesome that I met with. I thought the organization was really massive and moving very quickly. There was definitely a spirit of moving quick, which is what you have to have in this space. Uh I, you know, Brett's kind of like Elon. you never really you never really know like like what's hype and what's not. But but I was really impressed with the team and I was like this is cool. I'm glad I'm glad I invested here. And I then spent a lot more time with the guys at Aptronic and I got to meet a lot of their engineers. I love them all and those guys are not to be those guys to be taken very seriously even though they were at the time they were kind of like the dark horse. people didn't really know like people in the venture community had never even heard of Aptronic because they were an Austin company not a San Fran company the founders had zero network in Silicon Valley right they weren't taking any of those meetings they had been around forever just like behind the scenes refining their hardware tech and but they were dead set on building the world's number one largest robotics companyoid company and they're just not as outspoken about it Well, I then met some other venture investors who had traveled all around the world meeting with every one of the big humanoid companies, right? And the kind of word behind the scenes was that they were all just lab companies. None of them were building out true commercially viable, supply chain ready, scalable platforms. And amongst every single person I'd spoken to that had done deep research on the seven or eight that were out there, it was the same consensus. If they met with all of them, they said the same thing. Tesla, just because Tesla, they're going to figure it out, right? Uh Elon's going to figure it out. Figure Aptronic. That's it. That's it. At the time, no one was even really paying attention to Boston Dynamics because Boston Dynamics was on such a weird hydraulics old school uh research platform. Could they really transition that platform to a fully electronic platform that would be commercially viable quickly? We always thought they were way behind. Now, seeing their latest hardware release, everyone I've spoken to is meaningfully impressed. They might have the best piece of hardware in the world right now for humanoids. That said, how much does it cost, right? Is that a half million dollar humanoid? Because their old humanoid that we've seen for years and years was well over a million dollars to make. That's just not commercially viable. So, I don't know how far off they are from a truly scalable humanoid, but I do know that their new electric humanoid is very capable, as you probably saw, right? in the very capable. So, you cannot count them out. You got to include them on every single conversation right now. Boston Dynamics has to be there. Unfortunately, as investors, they're part of Hyundai. I don't even think they're part of the regular Hyundai. It's like some other Hyundai umbrella company. I don't think it's investable as an American investor, at least not easily. So, they're kind of off my radar from an investment point of view. But, I've met the teams at Aptronic and Figure. Uh I've now tracked them for a while. I for me those are you know th those are my horses in this space along with Tesla obviously I don't everyone asked me to rank them one two three I'm like you can't you absolutely you can't and I'll tell you why we haven't seen enough I think we will be able to rank those three companies in addition to Boston Dynamics in 12 to 18 months by next summer of 26 I think we'll be able to rank those four companies and I think I'm confident it will those four companies that will be the top four. Um because it's really easy to make a video of a cool humanoid that you made in your lab. You know what's hard? You know what's almost impossible is to actually deeply develop a commercial platform. Ensure that that humanoid is actually built on top of a commercially viable platform that can be scaled. That is like a hundred times harder than building an awesome humanoid is building one that's commercially viable and scalable and supply chain ready. On top of that, what's even harder is building one that um can be scaled um with like fleet management software, right? uh that you have an organization that can go to the top 100 employers in the world of physical labor and you could say, "Hey, we have the human resources. We have the software. We have the processes and to be able to work with you to get five humanoids up in 90 days and to scale that to 500 within 12 months and then 5,000 within 24 months and 50,000 in 5 years. And we're going to do that not just with your organization, we're going to do that with like 20 to 30 others over the next five to seven years. Do you know how difficult that is? Do you know how hard that is? It's insane. Insanely hard. So the companies right now that I'm speaking about are already in the process of building out all the processes, all the behindthescenes fleet management software, right? uh they're in deeply deeply engaged with a multitude of massively large commercial partners around the world. I'm talking about the largest companies on Earth. They're they've been in conversations for a long time. They're assessing what those companies need to have, what they're going to have, what that process looks like looks like over years, and they're starting to build up that trust. And the next stage are pilots. pilots that are going to scale. We have a lot of work to do. But assuming that goes well, if you fast forward 18 months, these companies are going to now be in a place where they can go to the capital market community and say, not just look at our robot, look at what we built behind the scenes, look at the look at the commercial engagements that we're now two, three years in on, and look at the next 30 that are sitting behind them that we have processes for. We know exactly what needs to be done. These companies are going to need to raise tens and tens of billions of dollars. So if you're cap if you're in the capital market space, if you're a hedge fund, right, hedge fund, private equity, venture, it doesn't really matter. Retail investor, you have to decide which of these companies is going to get the tens and tens of billions. At the same exact time, we have all of big tech getting into this space. Meta is in the humanoid space. They say software first and hardware. Trust me, they're going to come on hard with hardware quicker than you realize. We have Apple moving their best engineers from automotive. This is all rumor, right? But like all over to their humanoid division. So all these companies are are are rumored to be massively going into humanoids. Open AI, which no longer is partnered with Figure. Nobody really knows the story. I don't right behind that breakup. Was it Brett? Was it Sam? I don't know. But that they are aggressively, from what I understand, they are aggressively getting into humanoids right now. I think they'll probably buy a company. Maybe they won't. Uh, but they're going to be a big big player in this space. Amazon supposedly has their own humanoid division they're working on, right? So, you kind of look at this and you go, what's going to happen in the next 18 months? I think there's might be a little bit of consolidation uh or there's going to be massive amounts of fundraising and that fundraising might be partially from big tech kind of in the same way that you've seen the big fundraising rush in to large language models from big tech. It didn't necessarily come from just like VC, right? From traditional channels. So I I think I think you're going to see the leadership class in this space start to meaningfully uh spread apart from kind of the B players only because of all the other things you need and one of those things is massive amounts of capital and it's not just for manufacturing right you know that Aptronic has partnered with Jable one of the biggest manufacturers in the world uh Brett supposedly raising this couple billion. He's doing his own manufacturing. So, you know, he's going to have the money to do that. We know Elon's going to get the manufacturing done. You have to assume that Hyundai knows what they're doing when it comes to manufacturing, right? So, you have to have all of the pieces, not just some of them. And once this all kind of and there's going to be a couple big tech partners, big tech companies that are going to go at it alone as well, right? They'll maybe do some acquisitions. So maybe you have five, six, maybe you have seven and then you have China. But for an industry that's the largest industry of our lifetime, I think largest sector of our lifetime, you know, a third to half of global GDP, but it's going to redefine global GDP. I think within 20 years it'll be bigger than all of global GDP is today, right? Yeah, there's room for six, seven, eight massively large companies in the space all kind of racing. And I don't know that all seven or eight of them will ultimately be around in 10 years, but there's room and there could be more. There could we could develop some niches in the space. So, I know I'm just kind of rambling, but this is this is these are the things that no one's talking about. No one's really having these conversations about humanoids. All they're doing is looking at videos and you know, and that's fine. videos in there who has the coolest one, who has the best walking gate, who's winning the marathon. Like, man, that stuff is cool, but I don't think it's what matters. It's the last mile. It's the last mile. The last mile matters.

You laid out quite a broad description of all the things you look for in evaluating human bot companies, and it's pretty broad. Uh before we move on, going back to Tesla and others, uh let's talk Figure. There seems to be a a core group of Tesla investors who who continue to claim that Brett CEO Figure and Figure is a fraud. They use that term. They believe that it's all, you know, fake. Um you know, so what's your what's your reaction to when they when you hear things like that?

So all I can say is what I've seen with my own eyes. I've been there with my own eyes and there are a lot of really amazing engineers working very seriously on humanoids. Okay. Uh I've seen their humanoids in action uh from feet multiple feet away. And what they were doing with my own eyes is exactly what you see them doing in the video, which was at the time that I saw them quite impressive. I think where the controversy lies is, you know, how deep, you know, like how deep are his relationships, like how much is he scaling at these companies like BMW? I can't answer that question. I have no idea. Um there's that's where it gets a little bit like Elon like you know you're saying all these things you know are you stretching the truth? I have no clue. Um and I don't really care that much. Like I said CEOs when they're fundraising they sell the future. You know is everything that they're saying I I don't know if everything that he's saying is accurate or not. Um, there's a little bit of a mindset that certain CEOs have of like every CEO has this like kind of like a fake it till you make it thing, right? And what it means is you kind of stretch the the narrative to get what you need because you're so confident that you get this piece and you ask for forgiveness later. Elon is the best at that, right? Elon is the best at that. So, you know, is Brett doing some of that? I have I have no idea. Um, you know, the Aptronic team is like pretty conservative with what they're willing to show and say. We all know that. Like you're not seeing a ton come out of Aptronic. Uh, and they're they've always been very conservative. They still raised 400 million, but they're not raising billions yet. Now, I I know you want like a firm answer, but I just I just don't have it. I don't know that it's a black or white answer. I really don't know. I I think there's maybe many many shades of gray as to what is truth, what is stretching truth. And I guess we'll find out in the next 12 to 18 months. I think you can't at a certain point you can't hide, right? Like you got to you got to kind of show what I you know what I want to see out of all these humanoid companies. I don't care if it's Tesla, Figure, Aptronic, uh, uh, Hyundai and and Boston Dynamics. I want to see live footage that goes on for hours. That's what I want to see. You want to show me something impressive, show me a live video feed that goes on for hours. Hours. Okay. Digit did that at the conference. Um, the Digits were working right in a conference hall and they did it for four or five hours straight. That that's great. But Digit is is doing something that I'm not as excited about, right? They're not humanoid. You know, let's get to that point which is like, you know, what is it that differentiates a real humanoid bot company? U, is it the hands? Is it the walking speed? Is it the brains? What what is it that you really really hone in? Why not Digit?

Right. So what every one of these quote humanoid companies are trying to achieve is the same thing. They're all going for the same thing. They're all going for generalized robotic autonomy, zero shot learning. We're not there yet. I don't care what anybody says. We are not there yet. Uh what that means is that you can teach a robot to do virtually any human physical job and it will learn it essentially on the spot. Right? We are definitely not there. I think we can get there within just two or three years. Um now what you can do right now is you have some degree of generalization within a very defined task. Right? We've seen some of that. Uh but you don't have broad generalization. So the way that we get to broad generalization is you have to train these humanoid bots to do thousands and thousands and thousands of tasks. And I always kind of talk about the difference between a human baby and a monkey. You know, a monkey can do things way way way better than a human baby or a toddler. And but the way our brains work are a little bit different. As we start to accumulate and visually learn and see all these different things as a baby and a toddler, eventually you get to this point where oh my gosh, you could just pick up the next thing almost instantaneously, right? Like like you just you don't even know how the kid learned how to do that. He the kid just saw something on TV and now he can do it and do it even better than what he saw. So like that's that's the general concept behind this neural network endtoend training this this this foundational model that everyone's working on now figures doing it themselves they used to be doing it with OpenAI Aptronic uh is publicly partnered with Google DeepMind okay so Google DeepMind de is actually working for Aptronic now he's like the famous guy that was founded DeepMind and did the whole Apollo go and it's it's re it's really cool which is why people always ask me why you so hyped on Aptronic I'm like well some of the stuff I'm seeing behind the scenes it's pretty wild like I that's the thing about having a company that doesn't talk that much but like I've seen a lot behind the scenes I know what they're cooking up and it's pretty darn exciting so and I'm like just wait a year and a half like let this all play out. Uh Elon obviously has massive amounts of money to throw into sim training data. Nvidia is like the king of like a lot of that sim train. So is Google, by the way. Nvidia and Google both have tremendous amounts of sim training data. So they could actually teach the robots how to do things without even having the robot do it right in a in a physical world. But you have to have a tremendous amount of money to spend on that sim training data because it's kind of like the person that could spend the most on it to do the most. Aptronic is Google's play. It sounds like they're a humanoid play, right? Well, right now they're the only ones that are formally partnered in that capacity with Google. Uh we know that Tesla has a lot of money to throw at some data and I imagine that that is exactly what they're doing. So, I would not count Tesla out in terms of Optimus. Like, we might learn like a year from now, we might see Optimus doing things radically different than what we have been seeing them do. And you're like, how the hell do you train how to do that? Like it's a combination of of you know AI training in the physical world where you're teleoperating the robot and you're showing it how to do things and it's learning from sensors and movement and then just running simulations of robots doing a billion things right and there's a lot that goes into that work. The next 12 to 18 months is all about training. I say pilots but the truth is pilots are one piece of training.

Now, here's what's interesting and here's what people aren't seeing. So, I keep talking about generalized autonomy, which is like the deca trillion dollar pot of gold at the end of the robot rainbow. Okay? That's what everybody really wants. That's what the big companies are going for. But at the same exact time, uh, they are capable of having their robots do things that are exceptionally useful and potentially scalable once they could figure out the finalized form factor over the next couple years, two, three years without having generalized autonomy. Meaning there are so many jobs I'm talking I'm talking that could utilize millions and millions, tens of millions of robots that don't need generalized autonomy. So I I think what's happening is these robot companies are going to go down dual paths. They're going to go for the generalized autonomy path, which is like the OMG moment, like let's put them in homes now, right? Let's and we'll talk about that too, but let's also not wait on that. If we can get them to literally do this like sheet metal moving or just moving boxes or how about just like getting things off an assembly line. We don't need to have this masterful AI brain to do that. So there's dual paths happening here and they're both really valid.

And so Chris, it's just a couple questions for you. One is um do you have a human or robot in the background because we keep hearing banging. Is somebody out there uh building something?

No, they are they are they are building a house next door to me right now. Thought we was get a bot beta testing. They're just they're building a house. I got my hands up for a bot maker to give me a beta a beta because I'd love to beta test this. Uh so yeah. So your your what's your thought about the need? So I I agree with you, right? There's going to be hundreds of humanoid bot companies gaining out there and hundreds of them will die but hundreds of them will succeed because if they there's just the it's like a car electric vehicle market the margin is so small and they only have one use case go from you know drive me from A to B. But a human a can

Have infinity use cases. And so if you fail or you find yourself falling behind, you pick one use case and you sell yourself and you survive, but you won't be as big.

Now, what about the argument that, look, just like electric vehicle autonomy, data is what matters. So you need supercomputers and you need the vision data. And so Elon was saying, for example, when I pour water into a cup, my bot can see whether or not it's doing that, right? You can only do so much with simulation. What I've heard is that simulation takes you 90%, and then the physical interaction with the world is takes you to that final 10%.

So, do you need that data? Which is, which means the first company that can make 10,000 bots has a tremendous amount of lead, because every one of those bots is learning tasks in the real world, gathering gathering data, physical data, vision data, and that teaches it, and that makes them surpass all the other ones who don't have supercomputers, who don't have vision. You think that that's the truth?

The answer is yes, but yes, you need to have it. But there's a meaningful amount of debate amongst AI scientists, uh, who are involved with embodied AI, about how much of that you actually need before you reach generalized autonomy. This generalized autonomous model, foundational model, you don't necessarily need billions of hours of it, right? So, there there's a point of diminishing returns even with the physical data.

When you think about how many actual things do we do physically? A lot, but not millions and millions of physical things. Most humans are doing mostly the same things most of the time, right? Think about it. Even in our house, at work, in our house, when we're shopping, right? Think about how many tasks we're doing.

So, the question becomes, yeah, yes, we need it. How much of it do we need? Uh, can you achieve that with hundreds of bots being trained the right way, 24 hours a day, for the next few years? Uh, by just simply make, first of all, you make 10,000 bots. You can't just give them away to random people to train them. It's not safe. It's just not safe. Two, they're not going to know what they're doing, and you're going to create a cluster just sending bots home with employees. I mean, just to train them to around your house. You're going to have them trained to do the same thing. None of it's going to make sense. It's not safe.

I personally don't think that that is the right model. I don't think it is the model that's going to get actually enacted by any of these companies. I think again, it's a perceptional advantage, and it's a nice thing to say, "Hey, we're the only ones that are capable of doing this because no one else has enough money or manufacturing capacity to do this right now. So we're going to win because we could do this." And then a year or two from now, you're like, "Well, we didn't need to actually do that."

Okay. So you don't think you need? Because the other argument is like 1X, um, is is a company that creates Neo, the human I bot, and they purposely differentiate themselves from all the other human I bots by saying, "Hey, we are going straight to the home. Look at our bot. It's designed for the home. It's soft. It's light. It's hard to hurt other human beings, vulnerable human beings nearby." And it's really, they think that if you put the bot at the home first, and the breadth of tasks that it needs to learn is the faster way to get to generalized autonomy than all the other companies saying, "Hey, I'm going to put a bot into the factory that does pick and place." Well, that's one task. It's not as broad as the home. What do you think about that argument?

It's a good argument. But what makes you think that Google is not training, uh, for all the home tasks in their lab? Have you not seen the videos of them doing dishes and doing all? You don't need to be in a real home. Uh, you, you're probably aware of what Apple has with their home testing behind the scenes, right? Do you not think Apple has a robot right now in their fake home doing all this stuff right now? And they're not worried about safety because it's all Apple, you know, trained robotic technicians doing this stuff. So yes, it's one approach, and for a company like 1X, it's probably the right approach. Um, but I don't think, I think you can do most of the home training in a lab. In a lab that looks like your living room, that looks like your. In fact, they're doing it right. Like I know this is happening, right? We've seen video that's happening right now.

So, uh, again, how many actual tasks? Like, count all the things that are being done in your home. You're not going to get into the tens of thousands. Okay? I can't. If you were to make a list of all the things that are done in your home, like cleaning, laundry, this, picking up around the house, like turning the, I don't know, opening the door, or like turning the lights on. Like, it's just not that many things if you think about it. Uh, it's something that you can do with a, a lower number of robots with like best-in-class training of with professionals 24 hours a day coming in in teams doing that stuff.

So everybody has a slightly different take on how to do it. But don't think that these other companies are not on it. Okay? Apple, Amazon, uh, Google. I mean, Figure has said that we're going to get into the home sooner than people realize. We're accelerating it. Yeah.

So, that's exciting because what I'm thinking Figure might do, I'm thinking they might do, and you, you'll probably be excited about this, is, you know, they're not just going to send them to random people's homes, but I bet you that they put together kind of an inner circle of, uh, employee employees, uh, investors who are kind of in the space. Uh, and and I, I bet guys like you are going to have an opportunity to be one of those home testers. I really do, 'cause you, you know, people know you'll take it seriously. Yeah. And that would be super cool, uh, for a lot of us. But the problem is, like, my, my wife won't let us have one in the house. I, I might have to get another house. I might have to get a whole another house. Oh, okay. So, yeah, but it's okay because one of my buddies is another Figure investor, and if he gets one, I'm going to go visit it at his house. Visit him all. So he's just down the street.

Let's get back to Tesla. Uh, you are a big believer. You think that Tesla is going to be a winner. Uh, you're waiting to, you, you said you put a core position in right after the earnings call. What are you waiting for? What, what is the next step for you?

So I think Tesla will be a top three or four humanoid company globally. But what's more important than that is I believe that the capital market community and public market investors, uh, will believe that they will be the top humanoid company, and they don't have any other options to chase. So there is a price discovery cycle that will happen once the world truly does wake up to Optimus this year. I think it, it's like, I think it's well, if I'm, my gut instinct tells me it's likely to happen at towards the tail end of this year or early 2016. Um, because it has to, to some extent, because Tesla can't necessarily control what other companies are doing. And as we start to see improvements with other companies, Tesla is going to have to show that they are capable as well. And once people see that Optimus is capable, and unlike, you know, eight, nine months ago when Tesla, you know, had that video at the Tesla party and they were teleoperated, did, uh, Tesla now has to beat out what other people are showing. So I think now they're in their own little internal race, and I feel that they'll do a decent job of it. I think Tesla will show us something impressive with Optimus in the next six to 12 months. Impressive enough that people will wake up and they'll say, "Now is the time. Now is the time. I got to place my bet on robots." And there's only one way to do it if you're a retail investor, and it, and it's, it's Tesla. And so that price discovery cycle, I think, is going to be more interesting than what we saw in the early 2020s. Um, what, uh, with the Tesla cars? I, I think it's going to be wild, quite honestly. I think minimum. Yeah, I think so. I think it has a shot at that. I absolutely do. I know that sounds crazy, but I think that's a definite possibility, and I do not plan to miss it.

Okay. Wow. So, I, I'm, I'm, I'm okay. I've always said this, I'm okay missing out on the first 50, 60, 70%. If I, if I don't get my full investment on and I miss a big chunk of it, I'm, I'm cool with that because I'm thinking of the 10x. I'm not worried about the first 30, 40%. Like, if I miss the first piece of it and I, I'm in too light, fine. Uh, I'll, I'll capture the next, the next eight or nine X that happens. So that's been my thesis. It's still my thesis. I'm not, I don't have a crystal ball. I'm not going to time it perfectly. People think I'm, I'm not going to time it perfectly. I'm going to do my best to kind of be a little bit late, if that makes sense. That, that's your, that's your philosophy, and you've done very, very well. That's why we're talking to you. You're pretty awesome. And you've, you've also called humanoid bots early. Um, this is what they shared at the Tesla earnings call. Uh, basically, here, take a look at the sentence here. Says here, "We remain committed." Can you see this? Says, "We remain committed to expanding our business model to include delivering autonomous robots across multiple form factors and use cases, powered by real-world AI expertise to our customers and for use in our factories." Yeah.

So, did you, what do you, what do you read in that? "Delivering autonomous robots across multiple form factors and use cases."

Of course, they are. I mean, so, but basically, when we hear, when we hear multiple form factors, the first thing you have to think of is wheeled versus bipedal. There is a very large, uh, industry for both. Okay. So the, but that's like a modular thing. So, in fact, think of M, you know, you could have one on a stick as well. We'll see that as well. So it, it really doesn't matter depending on the client. You might have a client that wants 10,000 wheeled and 10,000 bipedal. Yeah. Depending on the use case, the facility. So that's how we're going to initially see the different SKUs. What you're not going to see is one with eight arms anytime soon. Fast forward 25 years, who knows?

Well, I absolutely. Like, people try to have this debate of like, why the humanoid form factor? Are you kidding me? Like, how do we even have to answer that question? The entire Earth and every single warehouse facility on Earth, home, was designed for the human form factor. That's where we're starting because it makes sense. Okay, we don't have to make any adjustments to it. We already know it works. And by the way, we're training these humanoids mostly on teleoperated data from humans. So we don't have four arms yet, right? So like, we're going to start with the humanoid form factor because it's gold for training, teleoperated training, and it's gold for instantaneous integration into the world. Now, over the next few decades, is it nice to have an arm sticking out of your back? I don't know. Like, like, we'll do all that. That will all come in time, right? It's all going to come in time. But slow down. We're still trying to figure out the perfect actuation here. We're trying to figure out the perfect amount, you know, articulation and fingers and sensor technology. There is a lot of work left to do in this space. A lot.

Okay. That doesn't mean we're not going to start with an imperfect product because we are. The products are imperfect. We're going to start with them. We're going to roll with it. They're not going to be as durable as they need to be. There's going to be issues. Um, some companies like Tesla are like, "Screw it. We're going to do 5,000 of them and we'll throw them out in a year." Um, but, but that's how you learn too, though. That's how they're going to learn the manufacturing and, you know, scaling earlier. I don't think you need to do that to learn. I don't think that you learn that much more by printing 5,000 of those bots than you do printing 500 of them and have them doing those jobs. And you know why? Because you need humans right now to manage these bots on the line. So, if you want to put 5,000 bots on a manufacturing line, do you know how many humans you need to like, and by the way, just if you have 600 bots doing the same exact thing, that's not going to teach you that much more than having 60 bots doing that exact thing. Okay? So, like, I'm not buying into why that type of scale at this moment in time of where this industry is helps that much, but that just, that's just my opinion. Maybe I'm missing something. I'll say it, you know, in a couple years if I'm wrong, but that's just my opinion. Uh, I don't think it's going to hurt that much because Tesla has the money, they have resources, they'll do it, and whatever. Um, we'll see. Okay.

A physical AI. Just final comments on that. You know, this is the big holy grail. Yeah, Jensen Huang talked about it. Tesla's the leader in the real world AI for robot taxi and physical AI at this point, especially with that kind of statement that they're hinting to you they're going to go beyond just humanoid form factors. They've been talking about human bot animals many, many times before. Also, um, what's your thinking about physical AI and what's the, uh, what's the most important differentiator for humanoid companies to like, just to create the long-term value?

Yeah, I, I think physical AI, so I call them like, uh, multi-use embodied AI bots, right? So these are bots that can do three things or eight things or 15 things. We're going to see a lot of that. Uh, in fact, I think this creative destructionism cycle we're about to go through with robots, embodied AI, the next 10 years, is going to be like the wild west. There will be so many companies, uh, getting so much funding, just they're going to be doing wacky things, cool things, and some of those companies are going to do certain things really right, and they'll probably get scooped up by the big guys just because of that one thing that they did really well that they're going to implement down the road. Um, I think there's a big use case for multi-use bots that are leveraging AI. Um, I think it's massive. I think it could be in the trillions of dollars because they could maybe do that thing at 300% of human speed as opposed to 120%, which is what the humanoid might do it at. Um, but they could only do that one thing or a few things, right? So, like, are they going to do it 24 hours a day? Are you going to just have it sitting there 15 hours a day? A humanoid, you can kind of move it right from the manufacturing line to the shipping dock to cleaning the bathrooms to doing all kinds of tasks, right? And then when you close down that plant, you could just take them, put them on a truck, and move it to the plant 10 miles down the road, and you're not having to, you know, not having to like redo equipment for a floor plan. And it's just, there's something very special about fully generalized humanoid form factor bots the next decade, decade and a half. But there will be a very large market for multi-use bots. Massive. And there will be a very large market for specialized bots. Um, initially, I just not nearly as big as what we're talking about, though, right?

So, what's the differentiation? The differentiation is the last mile. The differentiation, we talked about it earlier, is the ability for a bot company to actually be able to go to Walmart, to go to FedEx, to go to Coca-Cola and say, "Hey, we're, we're going to get you 100,000 of these bots, 150,000 over the next 10 years, and here's how we're going to go from five to 100,000. Those 100,000 bots are going to be doing roughly 90 different tasks for your company, right? Over the next decade, they will be deployed at 600 different facilities that you work with around the world. And this is a massive engagement that's going to last 10 years for us to get to where we need to get. We're going to develop, uh, and work with you to help you develop, uh, a foundational layer proprietary AI that sits on top of our AI stack for proprietary things that only you do, and you don't want anyone else in the world having that data. Okay? We're going to work within your corporate safety standards. We're going to work, uh, to ensure that you have the proper amount of training and teams across your org globally to support this. Initially, it'll be a lot of our guys supporting it, but we're going to train your staff. That is such a massive engagement. And it's one end client. Okay? One end client. You have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of end clients, not even including the millions that sit in the mid-market. Okay? So the companies that are going to win in this space are going to have the capital, the intellectual property, and the resources to achieve what I just talked about. And if someone else happens to come out with a better hand, they're going to buy that company. Okay? If someone else comes out with some type of better thing, they're just going to buy them. Okay? They're just going to buy them. This is how it works. That's how big it is. Yeah.

And but let's also admit that with something that's this large, not one time have we gone back in history and have been able to properly assess how things are going to play out with a new industry sector. Man, I was there in in 2009. We all had our ideas for how the internet was going to play out, and all the companies, virtually none of those were correct. So we can sit here all day and talk about how we think this is going to work, but we also as investors need to be realistic that we just have some hubris, right? Like we just do not really know. Like the biggest thing I've learned as an investor over the course of my career is I do not know what I do not know. And anytime I think I'm getting overconfident on a granular level about something that's in the future that's not right in front of my face, I'm like, "All right, Chris, come on. We, we do not know." All we know is what we see right this second. So, I'm focusing on what I've learned about these companies that already exist and and what I think is going to allow them to succeed going forward. All the things we already know about Tesla and where they crush it, right? And about Elon and his aggressiveness to manage that company like a startup and a, and he's not going to take any prisoners. He's going to break through walls, and he's going to make sure that he's in a leadership position, right? I think we're seeing some of that out of these other two companies as well, Aptronic and Figure. And I only know what I see. And so I'm placing bets across these companies that I think have a really good shot at being a top three, four, five company. And I think we're going to see consolidation over the next 18 months. I don't, doesn't necessarily mean companies getting acquired, but it could mean big tech making much larger investments and wanting more control over some of these leadership companies. That's my personal thesis. It's not based on anything I know. I just, I feel that that has to happen because the stakes are too big. If you're big tech, you cannot lose. You cannot lose if you're big tech. You cannot be number seven or eight or nine. You have to be a top four or five company in this space.

Can, can you make a comment about countries? It's not just companies. Countries. I mean, you know, China is making a huge push here. Um, I'm not seeing the US treating it as seriously as they should be. So, I've heard, you know, there was this summit or whatever, right, a few weeks ago in DC, and, uh, all the top humanoid companies here had a presence, and they were able to engage. And, and through my channels, uh, this is to combat the $134 billion that China has committed to the space. And I heard that we, they are taking it seriously. I don't know what's going to come of it, but I heard they are listening. They're taking it seriously. Um, my gut tells me, and it might not happen in the next few weeks or a few months, but I think in the next year, uh, we likely see some sort of organizational support for this industry sector in the US. Why? Because you can't deny it. And we can't lose. We, we, America cannot lose. If we lose, and if we lose in a big way, it's going to be a major, major problem for the future of this company. And this administration is talking about wanting to lead with manufacturing and onshoring. This is the only realistic way it happens. You know that, right? Like, and by the way, that doesn't mean there's not a lot of great jobs for humans. I actually think that what this does is it allows us to actually have more manufacturing. It allows us to have more restaurants. It allows us to have more of everything. And when you have more of everything, that means you're going to need more humans that sit on top of the food chain. Because if you're Taco Bell, and you're, you know, you're migrating, you know, all of these, you know, there's no more human order taking. You know, there's no humans taking orders anymore. It's just going to be bots, right? But that means you might have three times as many Taco Bells because all of a sudden Taco Bell becomes more profitable, right? And you can get them up quicker. But the jobs theoretically should be much better for humans, right? They should be much better because if enterprise becomes more profitable, you can expand, and it has, there's more capital to actually pay humans doing more creative, more interesting, uh, more worthy jobs of of our human capacity. So, I'm an optimist. I admit that, man. I, I'm an optimist. I'm not saying there's not going to be a period of turbulence that we'll have to go through in some industry sectors, but I really believe that humans are the big winners in this robotics race that's about to kick off. It'll be a roller coaster. We're going to win. Life is so much fun. This is great. And, uh, you are fun to be with. Honestly, Chris, thank you so much. You just raised my energy. I always get excited talking to you, but thank you for sharing to us your thinking. You know, uh, you've called it right. Your instincts seem to have helped you along the way. And, uh, you called humanoid bots early. You were very vocal about how important this is. And of course, the world caught up with you, and now there it's like, yeah, obviously, but not a year ago, two years ago. And now you're timing it, and you're explaining. Thank you for sharing that. Exactly. How you choose these bot companies, what timing you think and why, how does the market think, that's one of your, your specialties, and then how much money you're putting into this. So, really appreciate this. Um, yeah, so people can find you, right, at Dumboney TV. You're always, uh, making some fantastic videos. Um, and then where else can they find you?

Yeah, I, I'm on X primarily, so it's Chris Camilillo on X, and then dumboney.tv TV has all the socials for our YouTube channel and all the other stuff. Uh, yeah, get enough of you, man. Yeah, we, you know, we talk about more than robots on Doney, uh, live, but occasionally we will dive deep into our, our thoughts on the, on the humanoid sector, but it's a fun channel, and I don't, I just like sharing with the world and collaborating with other investors on. By the way, you only need one big win, one big win in a lifetime. I, I tell people that to be a top 1% investor, just call one big super cycle and invest in it, right? It could have been the internet, it could have been cloud computing, mobile computing. Like this, I think, is the biggest. It's hard to deny, right? Yeah. If you could even get this, this, this big thing even half right, I think for a lot of us investors, this could be the only thing that we have to get right in our entire investment career. Yeah. Like, it's that important. Yeah.

Not investment advice, but, uh, you know, I guess I, I'm a believer in humanoid bots as well, that you either, uh, watch in the sidelines or if, if it truly does become that disruptive, then you want to be somehow connected to it. That's all you know. This is it. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Chris. Appreciate you. Thanks, everybody. Bye-bye. I've created a website that is the most comprehensive resource for the Tesla investor. Please check it out. Simply go to my website at herbalm.com. [Music]