The Bodies of God Lecture with Dr. Benjamin D. Sommer

So, Darava, thank you very much, Sandy and Martin and Rabbi Habberman. Uh, it's an honor and a great pleasure to be here and to be addressing uh this really fundamental topic. Um, before I go any further, let me just make sure I'm using this mic. Can people hear me? Uh, is the mic on? Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

One of the interesting and to me disturbing aspects of Jewish religious life, of Jewish educational life, uh, in the modern world is how rarely we Jews talk about God. In the Jewish religion, somehow God tends to get short shrift. Um, one often hears that Jews, even religious Jews, even synagogue going Jews, they're ready to talk about Jewish history, Jewish culture, Jewish tradition, Jewish continuity, but God often gets lost in the shuffle.

In the Solomon Schechter School in Skokie, Illinois, uh, which my children attended before we moved to New Jersey. Now they attend Schechter in Bergen County. But I remember back in Skokie, the the school had the kids do just wonderful presentations. Um, you know, all sorts of different concerts and plays and whatnot in which they talked about Jewish history, Jewish culture. They talked about the arrival of our ances our Jewish ancestors to America. They talked about Israel. They talked about Zionism, but they never talked about God. It was interesting to me at this religious Jewish school how much we talked about tradition and history and family in a broad sense um but not God. One could say that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were invited to these sessions. One could say that um our ancestors who came over here to the United States, our cousins in Israel were invited to these sessions. But God was not so much invited to these sessions.

Similarly, about gosh, this is 10 years ago, I was at a very small conference at the University of Chicago on Jewish biblical theology and leading scholars from around the world, leading Jewish Bible scholars talked about Jewish theology and towards the end of the the conference, the end of the second day of this two-day conference, Richard Elliot Friedman, whom some of you perhaps may have met uh, you may have seen his books, uh, your kids or grandkids might have met him at Ramah in Georgia. Uh, Richard Elliot Friedman, then of the University of California, San Diego, piped up and said, "Why was it that we were here on a conference on Jewish biblical theology and nobody had talked about God these whole two days?" And everyone around the table was terribly embarrassed to have been caught leaving out the theo part of the word theology, and everyone started talking about God really intensively all of a sudden." But uh, Dick Friedman had a great point. Somehow we got all these Jewish leading Jewish biblical scholars uh together and in spite of the fact that the topic was theology, God somehow didn't make it onto the agenda until the very, very end.

So what I've uh, what I'll be talking about today, what I talk about uh in the book that I published about a year ago uh is precisely this issue that somehow makes Jews, even many religious Jews, uncomfortable. I'm talking about God. And I'm taking it a step further. Not only am I talking about God, which we don't like to talk about, I'm talking about an idea of God that we were all taught in Hebrew school, in day school, in Sunday school. We don't believe in. I want to talk about God's body. And not only that, you're going to find I go even one step further and you'll find that the odd claim, the revolutionary claim that I'm trying to make is not that the God of the Bible has a body, but that the God of the Bible has many bodies.

Um, so I deliberately would like to do something that isn't, in my opinion, done enough in Jewish circles, which is talk about God. And I'm not going to talk about God in very abstract philosophical terms. I also want to talk about God quite literally in concrete terms. So over the course of our sessions and also informally in in conversations that some of us will have at at at meals and at some of the other time that's been set aside um, I'd like to talk about the notion in the Bible that God has several bodies. And I'd like to talk especially in the very last session about what this can mean for us as Jews today. What the this very weird idea in the Bible has to say to modern Jews.

But before we do any of that, I think we have to pause, go into reverse, and talk about the starting point of my of my discussion, which is simply the idea that God in the Bible and also, I might add, in classical rabbinic literature, in fact, has a body. is a line that many of you know. You might be more familiar if we sing it. Um, "God has no body. God is not a body and we should not attribute to God any sort of body." This is the way I was quoting it is actually from a po a Hebrew poetic restatement of Maimonides' 13 principles of the Jewish faith. Maimonides, Rambam, actually wrote wrote the the section on the 13 principles in Arabic, but we're more familiar, most of us, with the Hebrew paraphrase from the Yigdal hymn that is often sung at the end of services. And Maimonides' assertion that God does not have a body is in fact, I think, the standard idea of Jewish theology that most of us were brought up with.

Indeed, I think Jews, Christians, people who are religious, people who aren't religious, generally say that the revolutionary, one of the revolutionary aspects of the Tanakh, of the Jewish Bible, when you compare it to other ancient religious texts, is precisely the idea that the God of the Tanakh, unlike the other gods of the ancient world, is invisible. You can't see this god because this god doesn't have a body to be seen. This god is not located in one particular place. This is a god who is everywhere but nowhere in no one particular place.

What we forget precisely because Rambamades was so successful is that when he said this, that it was actually a revolutionary idea when in smack in the middle of the middle ages uh, Maimonides, and already before him, some other Jewish uh philosophers in the early middle ages, especially Saadia Gaon um, when they suggested that our god doesn't have a body, this was actually a new idea. And it was an idea that was rejected by many of their contemporaries um, of their Jewish contemporaries. In fact, scholars more recently looking at the Bible and at the Talmuds and at the Midrashic literature um, have pointed out that in fact the God of the Bible, the God of the Talmuds, the God of the Midrashim does seem to have a body. There is no verse anywhere in the Bible that clearly tells us that God doesn't have a body body. And there are many, many verses that do refer to God's body part, to God's body parts, to God's location in a particular space at a particular moment.

Um, this is part of what what I point out at the beginning of my book. Some of my colleagues in rabbinic literature, especially um, Professor Yair Lorberbaum from Bar-Ilan University and Alon Goshen-Gottstein from the Elijah Institute in Jerusalem, have written on God in the Talmudic literature pointing out that there also, there are simply no statements anywhere in in Talmudic literature that claim that God doesn't have a body, and plenty of statements that seem to assume that God does have a body.

Um, it's for this reason, if you take a look at Maimonides' greatest philosophical work, The Guide to the Perplexed, the Moreh Nevukhim, that he spends about the first third of that philosophical work trying to explain why the Bible, when it talks about this god who of course doesn't have a body, seems to refer so often to this non-bodied god's body. Before he can really get going with his philosophy, he has to spend and about 75 chapters explaining away all the evidence from Judaism that actually works against one of his main bedrock beliefs.

So what I'd like to do for this first session, for the be um, for the beginning of of our time, is is simply review some of this evidence. Um, so many of us have been brought up on the idea that our god, our our god doesn't have a body. Our religion from the beginning taught that God doesn't have a body, that we might need to just review some of this evidence before I dive into the somewhat more bizarre idea that what's weird about the B Bible is that God has many bodies, not just one body.

So, let's take a look at some biblical texts for together for a little while. Um, let's jump in at um, I I'd like to jump in by looking at some texts that describe how a few people became prophets. Um, so I'd like to look at Isaiah and Ezekiel and how they describe their first prophetic experience. We'll go initially to Isaiah chapter 6. Now, for those of you who have the Hebrew-English JPS Tanakh, if it's a small edition, it has this little blue cover. Um, if it's the larger edition, uh, it's got that brown color. You'll be turning to page 857. 857. Some of you brought the Jewish Study Bible. Um, if you brought the Jewish Study Bible, which is this edition, you'll be turning to page 796. 796. 796. Um, where, as a matter of fact, you'll see that my point of view tends to agree very heavily with that of the author of the commentary on Isaiah in the Jewish Study Bible for reasons that'll be clear if you glance at the intro, the end of the introduction on page 784. Um, so 796 over here, 857 over here. Let's just read a little bit. Uh, let's just read a little bit at the beginning of Isaiah chapter 6. I'm going to read out loud in Hebrew, and you should follow along in whatever language uh you want to follow along with, but I'll translate as I go. "In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw my lord sitting on a throne, high and mighty, and his garment filled the palace or filled the temple."

Now, New JPS, um, both of these two editions, uh, the Jewish Study Bible and the JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh have the same translation. They're both using the the JPS translation from the late 1980s, um, or the mid-1980s. Both of these translations um, trans that one translation in both of these editions translates it a little differently than I did. Uh, they say, "I beheld my Lord." I just translated it as "I saw." The Hebrew word here, what's the crucial Hebrew word for those of you who have the Hebrew in front of you? >> Roer. In the in the conjugation va um, a verb familiar to many of you, ani, which simply means what? >> To see. So why does JPS use the fancy verb "beheld" as its translation? >> Bible. >> Cuz it's the Bible. Um, and finish that sentence. And say think people want it fancy and it refers to God. >> In part cuz it's the Bible and they think people want it fancy. Uh, um, I was Adena, I'm sorry. >> The word "beheld" removes you from the reality more than the word "beheld" removes you from the reality more than the world. The word "saw" and it's and that fits into the second half of your sentence and it's about God. >> Mhm. >> "Beheld" also gives you the idea that uh, that was how the person doing the viewing perceived something rather than possibly what actually was there. >> Mhm. So that it's more about the perception inside Isaiah's mind as opposed to a reality really being seen. Yes. >> "Saw" implies an optical image on your eyeballs. >> Yes. >> "Beheld" can be any other way of seeing. >> Great. I mean, that that that dovetails very well. I'm sorry, I forgot your name. >> Uh, with Jerry's and your name is Larry. >> So Larry's remark dovetails very well. "Saw." The word "saw" means that this little part of our anatomy is doing something which then connects to this part of our brain and it's reflecting something that's really out there. "Beheld," who knows? "Beheld" could be something else. Maybe it's all happening in here and there's nothing out there. One, there's still some hands, but one last remark, then I want to move on. Um, >> the Hebrew word that's used is not, it's more than or something different from the the plain. It's >> this is the va. This is a v consecutive or conversive form. It's the exact same as va and v and rai are two conjugations of the same verb that mean the exact same thing. >> It's the past. >> It's the past. Correct. Vera and then a verb in the prefix or imperfect form is a past tense. Um, so it is the uh, actually, one more comment. Mhm. >> What I see is more critical that he says that I read that means I see God like I can see everything else. So it becomes a common thing. God, you take him off from his holiness. >> Exactly. >> And this goes back to, I'm sorry, your name. >> Barbara. >> To to Barbara's uh initial remark. It's about God and we Jews don't use the verb "see" with God. Um, and so the translators, look, the translators, they went to Hebrew school, too. They go to shul. Okay, if they're like a lot of other Bible scholars, maybe they get to shul late. But Yigdal, you know, you know, I'm writing a commentary in the book of Psalms, which is just great because I'm because Jews use Psalms at the beginning of the morning service, or so I'm told. Um, I dive in every day, but I'm never there that early. Um, but Yigdal, Yigdal's at the end. Uh, so even H.L. Ginsburg, my predecessor at the Jewish Theological Seminary, I don't know when he got to shul. I know he went to shulbish Shabbat and I know that he was there by Yigdal. Um, because you're not there by Yigdal, you're not there. And I know he's a shulgar. Um, they know in Lud Mutag, he doesn't have a body. There's nothing to be seen. So I think what you can see here, it's just fascinating in terms of like sort of Jewish cultural history. The translators didn't want to come out and admit what the Hebrew actually says. But the verb used v is just like raiti. It's the verb ro. It means to see. We're not used to applying that go that that verb to God. But you know, Isaiah didn't get that memo. We all got the memo from Maimonides. But Isaiah lived a long time before Maimonides and he never got the memo. Um, he sees God and he describes what's interesting then is is what what does he actually then go on to describe? Take a look in verses one, verse two. Um, in verses 1, 2, and 3. I'll read quickly from verse two. You can follow along in whatever language. Verses two and three. So he goes on to, so he says, "I saw God." And then what does he go on to describe and what does he not go on to describe? >> He doesn't describe. >> He doesn't describe God. He describes >> doesn't describe God. He describes the those attending around him. >> The attendants, the God's servants, the seraphim. The seraphim, which are actually seraphim here means it's it's seraphim are flying heavenly snakes, as a matter of fact, uh, which we're told have uh six wings. Um >> Oh, there is a description of God. >> A des what's the description of God? >> Clothing. >> No description. >> The description is of >> his clothing. >> Fills the entire temple. >> And what fills the entire temple? Clothing. >> His clothing. So the prophet goes on to say, "I," after saying that he saw God, he goes on to describe God's clothing. He mentions a throne. He mentions the palace room. And he mentions in some detail the heavenly beings that were attending to God. And he explains what they were doing. They were praying to God. They would call out to each other, "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts." But the the prophet actually doesn't describe what he saw. That's very, very interesting. Um, why might the prophet not describe what he saw? Knowing what you know about biblical law, um, even if you've only read one law, like the very first one in the Ten Commandments or the second one, depending on how you count. Why might Isaiah be willing to say, "I saw God," but not be willing to explain what God looked like? >> It might be a form of making an image. >> H. Describing God is making an image. >> Um, exactly. Or maybe to phrase it slightly differently, if if he describes God, what is that encouraging somebody to go do? >> To make a painting or to make a sculpture of what he described. I think that Isaiah already knows the Ten Commandments. That memo, he got that memo. Isaiah got. Isaiah knows we Israelites, we Judeans, we don't paint pictures of our God. We don't make sculptures of our God. Um, not because this god doesn't have a body to be painted or to be imitated or to be imitated in a painting or a sculpture, but rather because there's only one of there's just this real being and making a representation of it, our own human representation with our hands, that would be a terrible thing to do. But I think that we Jews in the 21st century, the 20th century, the 13th century, whatever, we tend to read the Ten Commandments in light of Maimonides. When we read, "You shall not make any idol," we sort of say, "Well, of course we shouldn't because God doesn't have a body." So why would we make an idol representing something that isn't there to be represented? Why would we make a a picture to represent something that is present nowhere in the universe? But that's actually not, I think, what the biblical authors intended in the Ten Commandments. Um, the biblical authors, I think, had a different point of view. When the biblical authors said, "Don't make any physical representation of God," they meant that in the same way that the Congress of the United States and the Treasury Department and the Secret Service say, "Don't make any copies of a dollar bill." When the when US law says you're not allowed to make a copy of a dollar bill, especially in green paper, um, of that size, the reason isn't that there's no such thing as a dollar bill to be copied. On the contrary, the point is dollar bills have value. And if everybody can start making pictures of them that are highly accurate, they will lose their value. I think that's what's behind the Ten Commandments in their original biblical setting. Yes, God has a body, but that body is God's own self. We're not allowed with our hands to make some sort of human, inaccurate, pathetic attempt at a representation of that reality. So I think that Isaiah does not describe what he saw not because he didn't see anything. He tells us at the very beginning of verse one that he saw something, but he doesn't want us to use that information incorrectly. So instead, he describes what is around it. Um, and what's his reaction in verse um, verses four and five to to having seen God? Um, in verse 5, I'll just uh, I'll read this. Actually, no, we'll read verse four, too. So, follow along in verse four. Um, um, the uh, and the um, the posts of the door um would uh were shaking or trembling from the co the the sound of the one who was calling out and the house was filling up with smoke or the the palace was filling up with smoke. And I said, I said, "Woe is me. I'm doomed. For I'm a man of impure lips, and I and I dwell among a people of impure lips. And it's the king, Hashem of the armies, Hashem of the heavenly hosts that my eyes have seen." Um, so his reaction is what? >> He's scared. Um, the general idea in the Bible is what happens if you see God? >> Yeah. Does anyone can anyone think of a particular passage here? >> Moses. >> If Moses could not see God, how much ego did Isaiah have? So, one of the lines that we read about Moses is God tells Moses, and we're going to look at this in more detail in just a few minutes. So, we're not going to turn to it right now because we're going to we'll turn to it in a minute. But there is a famous passage in Exodus 33 in which God tells Moses, "A human being cannot see me and live." Um, well, Isaiah got that memo. Isaiah knew this idea. You can't see God and live. He saw God and he therefore thought, "Midmatei, I'm done. I'm doomed. I'm about to die." Um, and this is a standard idea you find all over certain parts of the Bible that again, not that there's no God, no divine body to see, but rather that if you see the divine body, you'll be killed because the sight is so incredibly overwhelming.

Now, again, it's it's worth pausing here for a second. That line, "A human can't see me and live." I think people sometimes think of that as, "Yeah, that's one of the verses in the Bible that says that God is invisible, that you can't see God, that God has no body." But that's not what it says at all. It says that God does have a body, you can't see it. And sorry, if God does have a body, you can even see that body, but there will be an inevitable and quick result if you see that body. But it's it's actually kind of odd that people quote that line, "Oh, that proves that our God is invisible, can't be seen, has no body." That's that's the exact opposite of what the line is saying. Similarly, if I say, "You cannot touch a high voltage wire and live," I'm not saying that there's no such thing in the universe as a high voltage wire. On the contrary, I'm saying there is such a thing and they are real. They are dangerously and um and appallingly real. The same thing's being said over in Exodus 33 in that one verse about God's body.

So Isaiah sees God's body and is afraid because he expects to die. What he goes on to discover in verse six is that there are exceptions to that rule. One of the seraphim, one of these flying heavenly snakes, grabs with some tongs a coal from the altar, flies over, touches the coal to his impure to Isaiah's impure lips. And having done so, for some reason, Isaiah is inoculated just in time and he's able to continue well living, talking. In fact, he becomes rather bold and begins uh voluntarily taking part in the discussions of the heavenly council.

Let's look at one other prophetic text, or maybe we'll look at two other. I think um that will give us again some sense of um of the divine body. I'm sorry. One last comment on on Isaiah 6. Covered their eyes as well. >> Yes. >> Yes. Great point. >> Yes. Great point. I'm sorry. What's your name? I can't see from way over here. I'm sorry. >> Marus. >> Morris. Yes. Morris has a great point. It's not only lawyer. It's not just that humans can't. It isn't just humans who can't look at God and and continue living. Apparently, these heavenly beings also are afraid to look directly at God because two of their wings, they they use to cover their eyes. They're covering their eyes to protect themselves from the sight of the divine body. Even a seraph, even a flying heavenly snake could be killed by the sight of God. Great point. What's interesting, by the way, and this is not the only place this happens in the Bible, is that Isaiah, therefore, at least for the few moments, is at a higher level than the angels. Um, some of you might know the beautiful line from Psalm 8, very famous line, um, that we are that God made us but little lower than the angels, uh, than the angels. Um, but there are places in the Tanakh, and this is one of them, where human where a few specific human beings at least briefly are not a little lower than the angels. Uh, human beings briefly can be a little higher than the angels. And Morris, I'm glad you pointed that out. I forgot to mention that. Yes, this Isaiah has a privilege here of being a little higher than the angels. Yes. >> Mhm. Uh, the uh, he the atonement for seeing God and talking about it is not touching a coal to his eyes. It's touching a coal to his mouth. >> Correct. >> The problem is not that he saw it. It's that he tries to express in language what he thinks he saw. And this is figurative language, not real uh, you know, it's poetic. >> I'm not sure. I'm um, how do you know it's figurative language that it's not to be taken just at its obvious meaning? >> Talking about seraphim, too, and I certainly don't believe that uh, something like that is literally true. >> Maybe you don't, but that doesn't mean that he didn't. >> Well, the audience for it 3,000, 4,000 years ago is certainly receptive to this idea. >> Yeah. So as as a Bible scholar, the first thing that I'm always trying to do is, first, let's get into the mindset of our ancestors and our forebears in ancient Israel. Let's try to understand these words as they would have understood them. Later, we can also talk about what it means to us, and that's especially in the fourth session, what we'll do, but it'll creep into conversation before then. Um, but I I have no indication that he thought he was using figurative language. I I think that they did believe in seraphim. We actually have I actually, it's a shame I don't have it with me um, a picture of this, but we actually have a seal from Isaiah's time in Jerusalem. A seal is by by that I mean something that was used to stamp a document closed. It's a piece of clay um or it can be a piece of um, a hard rock that's been sculpted and you would stamp it onto hot wax to close a document to officially seal a document. And seals will often have a decoration. Outside of ancient Israel, seals typically have a picture of some some gods or some deities interacting. Um, there's a Israelite seals, interestingly, do not depict a god, but they do depict God sometimes symbolically as the sun or a sun disc with a crown on top of it. And there's, for example, there's a seal belonging to a man named Ahaz, who is a servant of King Ahaz in Jerusalem. So living in Jerusalem the same time as Isaiah. He's a servant of the king. He has his own seal. This is kind of like having the the American Express Platinum card. Most Israelites don't have a seal. Um, he this guy traveled in very high circles. Isaiah also traveled in very high circles. It's inconceivable that these two guys didn't know each other. Isaiah, Jerusalem was a small town and they were from the same stratum of society. On that seal, you see a circle with a crown on top of it, which was a symbolic representation of Hashem, the God of Israel. And around it are a bunch of seraphim with wings. I think that they it's exactly what Isaiah, his contemporary, was talking about. I think that they thought of this stuff quite literally. Uh, and they even made pictures of it. Not of God. God they pictured symbolically, but they did make a picture of the seraphim that surrounded. And there are other ancient Israelite seals that that show pictures of seraphim. So no, I don't think it's that he sinned in describing what he saw. The reason it touches his lips that is interesting. I think it's because he described himself as being of impure lips. So if somehow that's where the ritual and ethical impurity is focused, that's what was purged or what was cleaned. The I can go into some more detail what's what's behind that term, but I I think I want to move on to Ezekiel. So, uh, just one more comment and let's move to Ezekiel. >> A couple of comments. One, why were they covering their eyes not to see God and not possibly to protect others from seeing their eyes? It says they covered their face and and if they're doing anything else, moving, so they're going to have to see something. Such it could be they were protecting Isaiah from their eyes. And second, the Pope of Psalms is not necessarily saying less than angels whether or not heavenly help. >> That would get us into a long discussion of of Psalm 8 and what the word Elohim means. Um, Elohim, the word Elohim can is simply the plural word for divine beings. And I think that there it it is referring to what we in English usually call angels, immortal divine beings up in heaven, but not God himself. Um, but but Psalm 8 would be a a nice uh, a nice discussion. I'm writing the JPS Psalms commentary. It's don't tell anyone in Philadelphia, but it's one of the few commentaries I've actually finished writing according to my contract, which I signed. I'm supposed to be a lot further than number eight. Uh, but anyway, we could talk about that, but I don't want to get too far off track right now. Let's move to another passage. Well, actually, but real quickly, the possibility that they're trying to protect Isaiah from the sight of their face, that's an interesting possibility. I don't think that that's the case, although I you may be right. But the reason I don't think that's the case is that if Isaiah saw God safely, for sure, Kahomer, he could have seen the seraphim safely. I think therefore that what Morris has suggested is the more likely explanation, although both are possible, that they're covering their face to protect themselves so that they don't see the being whom they're serving. Um, let's move on to one other prophetic text. Um, Ezekiel chapters 1 through 3. We'll glance at a few verses from Ezekiel 1-3. In the New JPS, this Hebrew-English JPS, it's going to be page 1155. And in the Jewish Study Bible, we're going to be starting at page 1045. So, 1155 in JPS, 1045 in Jewish Study Bible, actually. Yeah, 1045. >> What's the section? >> Ezekiel chapter 1. Um, we're not going to read the entirety of the chapter because it's extraordinarily long and difficult. Um, in the first uh, in the first chapter, if you glance through this very long chapter, you'll see that this is actually very similar to Isaiah chapter 1. This is a prophet describing his first prophetic experience. And it follows the same pattern, but the pattern has gotten bigger. Each element of the pattern gets instead of a couple of words, it gets several verses. Um, so at the beginning it describes the timing of this, what year this happened. In verse three um, he says, "God's word came to me." In verse four, he says, "va," same verb that we had back in Isaiah 1, verse 1. Uh, "I saw." Uh, and then he goes on to describe in great detail what he saw. He describes all sorts of atmospheric, um, meteorological um, occurrences. Uh, he describes again in great, great detail some sort of heavenly beings. In in fact, possibly some sort of heavenly vehicle because he it has wheels as well as wings. Um, he describes these heavenly beings, hayyot, or living beings, creatures, in extraordinary detail. They had four different faces in verse uh, in verse 10. They could move in any direction. They were never moving backwards or sideways. They only moved forward because they had four faces and four different kinds of faces. He describes this a little bit and he's having trouble describing it. He keeps on saying, "demut mashu" or "mar mashu." It looked like this or the appearance was like this. It's as though he's seeing something completely unfamiliar, not something that you normally see on the planet Earth. So he doesn't have the vocabulary to describe it. So he just, so he says, "It had the appearance of such and such," or "It had the look of such and such." Um, again, a great deal of detail and then a great deal of detail on these beings. And then he describes the being who was the center of focus, the one that was sitting on a throne. This is in verse 26. Um, and he says, "There was something that looked like sapphire stone and it had the appearance of a chair or a throne. And on what looked like a chair was the was what looked like something that seemed to to to have the appearance of a human that was on top of it going up. And I saw and there is something like a bright kind of shiny stone called kashmal in Hebrew in biblical Hebrew. And it looked like fire within that being um all around it. From what looked like its loins or the middle of its body and up and from what looked like its loins and down, I it had the appearance of what seemed like fire and there was a sort of brightness all around it and it was like the brightness of a rainbow which you would see in a cloud on on a on a rainy day. That was what the brightness seemed to look like all around. And that thing, that thing that I was seeing, this thing that looked kind of like a human being. It's fascinating. His language looked like um seemed like had the appearance of. So that thing was the had the appearance of what looks like God's kavod, God's presence. I saw it and I fell on my foot face or I I genuflected um and I heard a talk, a voice talking." So he describes this heavenly vehicle, heavenly beings that are on the vehicle or or carrying the vehicle, and then he describes in very hesitant language the being on the throne. Um, it had the general shape of a human being and an extraordinary kind of brightness that he he can't quite describe using the vocabulary he has available to him. And he tells us that that was actually the presence of God, the kavod of God. Um, how does this compare to what we saw in Isaiah? >> Mhm. >> Um, there's a word here which is different than Isaiah. >> Mhm. That's uh uh that he saw visions of God. Didn't say he saw God, saw visions. >> Mhm. >> And so it leads you to think that this might have been an apparition or some something a dream. >> And not an optical. >> Yeah. That you're in verse one, "marot elohim," and I saw "marot" of God. Now, "marot" is a noun that comes from the same verbal root as the verb "to see." In English, when we use the noun "vision," it has a more abstract, maybe spiritual, maybe intellectual sound to it. Um, it becomes more something that's happening in the mind. But in and by the way, if we say "I envision something," when we have a verb from that word in English, again, it's a little more abstract. It's it's a little more fancy. It's a little more more a mental process as opposed to an optical process. But in Hebrew, the shore, the root, the three-letter root of the the noun "marot" is the same as the root for the verb "saw." It's re'eh, same as v'ra'i. So I think that here again, I'm not positive that in this case it was that the translators are are are hedging their bets. It may just be that. It may be that, but it also may just be that the English word "vision" has a connotation that differs from the Hebrew word "marot." But I think that the Hebrew "marot" does not necessarily connote a neurological phenomenon or a spiritual phenomenon as opposed to an optical phenomenon. Um, I I think you have a good point and it's it's a point based on a really good close reading of the English, but I think that the Hebrew won't quite support your point. In Hebrew, he's still talking about an optical phenomenon, I think. >> Um, how does how else does this compare? Yes. Um, >> Hi, Barbara. Uh, >> Barbara. >> Yes. Uh, he actually describes God and the God he describes does not appear to be wearing clothes and fire seems to take the place of clothes in terms of hiding what you really did not see. >> Mhm. Or if he's wearing clothes, it better be that kind of children's pajama that's fire-resistant because >> [laughter] >> um >> No, but I mean, there's, you know, he's very clear it's the uh lower the man. >> There's Yeah, there's a little more detail here. He does to some extent tell us the shape. It had the form of a human being. Um, that probably I think means broadly speaking, kind of a roundish thing on top and these rectangular things on the sides and down on the bottom too. I think is what he means. By the way, can anyone think where else in the Bible do you have the suggestion that the broadly speaking, without going into a whole lot of details, um, the general shape of God is the same as the general shape of a human being. Where else do you see that? >> Man was made in God's image. >> Um, that human beings were made in the image of God. Where is that from? Do you know? >> Uh, Genesis. Genesis 1:26 and 27, which in our third session we'll look at in some more detail. Um, the conception here in Ezekiel is I think identical and some of the language is the same. Some of it's a little different uh to the conception in Genesis 1:26 and 27. Actually, we modern Bible scholars believe that Genesis 1 and Ezekiel are very closely related. Some of you may know, and we'll get a little bit more into this later uh in our second session and third session, uh, the modern theory that the Torah, the five books of Moses, were created when an editor or a group of editors took four originally independent documents and edited them together. One of those documents is called the Priestly Document or the P text. Um, and it was written by priests, by kohanim, in Jerusalem. Um, Ezekiel was from a priestly. He was a Cohen. And one finds again and again that the priestly sections of the five books of Moses and the book of Ezekiel are very closely related to each other. Um, so it's not a coincidence that the I the the idea we get is the same idea that the general shape of God's body is in fact, broadly speaking, the shape of a human body. Um, so there's more description. It's it's different from Isaiah. Um, what else? What's the same? What's different? Name? >> Difference is that Ezekiel is personally is the first person I saw. I did I did >> compared to Genesis? >> No. Compared with Isaiah where the narrator is saying Isaiah. >> No, no. In Isaiah he does say vishname Adonai. No, it's first person there. They're both first person narratives. Take a look at Isaiah 6, verse one. >> Description of the clothing. God. >> But it's pre it's preceded by the word v, first person. "I saw." "I saw." Um, >> Okay. >> So, actually, so your point is still a good point. It just flipped. A similarity is these are both first-person narratives in which a person claims to have seen God. Now, that Isaiah saw God and then goes on in greater detail to describe what? >> The heavenly beings. And he sees him. >> Um, here also, on the one hand, it's different as Barbara points out because he does give a little description of what God looked like, but most of the chapter is a description not of God, but of the beings, the creatures, the vehicle that God that that surrounded God and served God. Um, so there's a difference in that there's a little description, but there's also a great similarity in that Ezekiel mostly gives us a description of the other beings. There's only one verse that describes God. There's about 20 verses describing the other beings. Um, Morris, you were waiting. >> Yeah. Basically, he sees their faces. Their faces are done. >> He does see the faces of the of the creatures of the hayyot. >> And he he's describing all >> in some detail. Yes. >> Four images of God, four faces of people. >> Yeah. He describes the four faces of these creatures of the heavenly creatures, these angelic beings. These are not the seraphim. That's a different group called the hayyot. Um, but uh, but he describes them in in more detail. He does see the faces. So they apparently are not as afraid of looking at God, but but he does, he still doesn't describe the face of God. >> Yeah. >> If it's the face of the hayyot, the heavenly creatures. Uh, there's a hand over here. >> Uh, just thinking too, the vehicle he describes, the way the wheels are situated, it seems like a physical impossibility because I think you have four wheels on two on each side, but they intersect. Uh, it's not that they're, you know, they're small wheels so that they don't interfere with each other, but they're large wheels and they actually cross over. One wheel crosses over the other. >> Physical impossibility. >> Yeah, it's very hard to figure out exactly what this thing looked like. But whatever it was, it was spectacular. And it seems likely that it was physically impossible for us to imagine building such a thing. [clears throat] Um, even to imagine building such a thing. And yet it worked. There's a certain science fiction element here. Um, yeah. Um, Sydney, >> Sandy, I'm sorry, Sandy. >> Write letter. It's just the wrong order. Just a little dyslexia there. >> He does the talk about marot. So I don't think you can tell from this what kavod means, but it means something. >> Yeah. And from the fact that he's a priest and from the fact that the priestly document in the Pentateuch talks a lot about the kavod, we'll get more into this during our third session. Um, I think that we can tell that he, I I think that the word kavod actually means "body of God." Um, that'll become clear from a lot of the priestly texts which talk about the kavod. But the kavod is a technical term in the bi in the Bible, especially in sections of the Bible written by priests, by kohanim, that refers to the actual physical, visible presence of God. Generally, however, it is surrounded by a thick cloud. So it's the visible presence of God that you can't see because there's a very thick black cloud around it. And then tremendous amounts of light coming through the black cloud, which give you just some impression of how incredibly bright the kavod itself is. And I think the general idea is you look at the kavod for a second and you'll be burnt to a crisp. Ezekiel becomes an exception to that rule. But kavod, I think actually means um, I actually think means the body of God. Um, if by the way, those of you who know Hebrew, kavod is from what? Shesh. From what? What verbal root? What? Three-letter root? >> And what does that what does kave mean? >> Heavy. >> It's something that has substance to it. >> Kavod is often translated as "the presence of God" with a capital P. New JPS might even actually do that. Yeah, "presence" with a capital P or "glory" with a capital G. "Presence" and "glory" have a certain abstract ring to them in English. But the shores ketalid in Hebrew implies it's something that has weight to it. It's something that has substance. You could put this on a scale and if not for the fact that the scale would be burnt to a crisp and would, you know, would dissolve into just, you know, a few electrons, you could weigh it. Um, so kav, that's part of why I think kavod really actually means God's body, a different kind of body than we have in various respects. Um, but it's something that actually has mass uh to it. Yes, >> It seems to me when you read it in Hebrew, you may be also in English, you get the impression that is far removed from the regular. When he speaks, God sits on the chair, saying I can sit on the chair, but when he speaks about seeing things, the heavens open, that's one way he speaks about, and all these exotic things which are not regular in everyday life. >> Yes. Yes. Exactly. There's Ezekiel's description is exotic. It's something not just foreign but otherworldly. Whereas Isaiah's was actually much more similar to what we might see here on Earth, just more scary. Um, one could almost say that if you look through these chapters in detail, you'll see they follow the exact same outline. >> But Ezekiel is filling in details of the outline with extraordinary detail and exoticness and a certain science fiction quality. You might almost say that they're similar, but Ezekiel is much more Baroque or even Rococo. Um, you might put it that way. One more comment. Yes. Uh, for your name and uh, the parallel text Ezekiel 10. >> Yes. Very important. >> Much is also prosaic. It talks about the pres the so when the presence of the Lord moved the chariots to the platform, whatever that means. >> Mhm. >> Uh >> Yes. >> The whole house was filled with a cloud. So at a different point, Ezekiel is also being prosaic and and putting it forward in a just, "Of course I can see the presence of God." Any questions? I mean, I saw the presence.

of God moving. It seems it supports your position that it's a physical thing.

Yeah. In Ezekiel chapter 10, if you just go a few pages forward, there's another description. And there it becomes even more clear that this is a physical thing in space in time. He sees the kavod again in the Jerusalem temple sitting on a throne made from the two cherubim. The cherubim are, um, the cherubs. The cherubim are these, um, beings that have the face of a human, the wings of an eagle, and the body probably of a bull. Um, actually, there's an ancient Israelite depiction of a cherub on the handout, but you don't have the handouts yet, so this is kind of a pointless thing to point out. Anyway, um, let's skip that. I don't want to get out the handout right now. Um, but it's it's not that clear.

Anyway, um, the the cherubim are these creatures and they've got wings inside the Holy of Holies of the temple. Uh, there are statues of cherubim and the wings are touching each other and they form a sort of throne chair. And what Ezekiel sees is God gets up from the throne chair. God walks over out of the Holy of Holies, out of the temple. A cherub, a real cherub, flies down from heaven. God steps onto the cherub and flies off towards the east.

Which means that, um, which has all sorts of implications. For one thing, what does it imply about the temple?

That's where he lived.

Lived, past tense, crucial. And the temple now, it's just this building. It used to be God's home and therefore no foreign army could ever destroy it or even enter the city it was located in. Um, but now it's gone and it's no longer the temple. It's just some building. And the king of Babylon is going to destroy it in a very, uh, a very short while from now. Um, but more to our point and about this, it flies east. Uh, it flies east towards Babylon, which is going to be the location of the Israelites' exile, of the Judeans' exile. So, in a sense, God goes into exile, um, along with the Israelites.

But the point I'm sorry, what's what's your name? I forgot your name.

Howard.

Howard. But what Howard is pointing out more importantly for our point is that yes, the kavod that Ezekiel sees standing up, walking out of the building, getting onto the cherub, and then flying away on the back of the cherub, clearly this is a physical being. Um, some sort of a physical being with some substance. It's located in space and in time. Um, and yeah, from there too, I think it's it's clear that we've got ourselves a, uh, not some abstract idea, but something much more concrete.

Morris.

Why did his contemporaries and the redactors later of Tanakh accept the story?

Why not?

Because you think, well, it's a story.

He was on mushrooms.

I think that, uh, I mean, that that is one interesting way of interpreting Ezekiel that's that people have mentioned. Um, I think that to Israelite culture, and this is the point I'm just trying to make in this first session, to Israelite culture, all of this was believable. The idea that there is a God, and that God, like all things in the universe, has a physical being, that was just a believable story. There is no reason that they wouldn't believe this. Uh, and that that's the point that I'm making. It's just normal in the Bible that God has a body. Um, Ezekiel doesn't describe the body in great detail. There's a little bit of description, but I think Ezekiel basically is similar to Isaiah. Ezekiel is more comfortable describing what he saw around God than describing God, Godself, than describing the actual kavod. Probably for the same reason. Ezekiel doesn't want people going off and making statues of this. And the truth is, although he gives a few details, it's not enough that you could really go and paint a picture or or or create a statue. Um, the picture you would paint would end up being, you know, so highly abstract or impressionistic that it, it wouldn't really be much of a picture. And I think it's the same idea. He believes God has a body.

If you go into chapter 2, you'll see that he's terribly frightened. In fact, after this experience, at the beginning of chapter 3, he mentions that he, he, he remains in a catatonic state for, if memory serves, about a week. Uh, he can't speak after he sees this. It takes him, um, about a week before he can even begin to talk about it. So, it's an extraordinary frightening event, as it was for Isaiah. Uh, it's something he doesn't want to describe in too much detail. So he describes what was peripheral, not what was central. Um, and the basic idea is, but of course, God had a body. He doesn't pause to defend himself on that point. We all know that God has a body. He doesn't want to describe it to you in detail. What he needs to explain to you is how he actually survived this event.

Um, let's look at one or two, one more prophetic text just real quickly. Take a look at the book of Amos. Uh, the book of Amos, or Amos. Uh, so this is going to be in New JPS on page 1,324. So if you've got this New JPS or the Brown edition, page 1324. And over in the Jewish Study Bible, it's going to be on page 1,191. So JSB 1191. So this is Amos 9, verse 1. Amos chapter 9, verse 1, where Amos simply tells us, "I saw my Lord standing over the altar, and he said, 'Strike the capitals, so that the thresholds shall shake.'" Very similar, actually, to Isaiah chapter 6. Um, he sees God and there's this idea that the threshold or the, um, the door frame is shaking because of God's presence. Um, in this case, we get the verb "ra'iti," which had has come up before, "I saw," just a a simple form of the past tense. "I saw God."

And what's interesting about Amos, actually, is he doesn't even pause to say, um, "I was afraid. I, I was sure I was going to die. I was so, I was so blown away that I couldn't talk for days and days." No, he just says, "I saw God." And then he just goes on to to describe what was going on. It doesn't even seem remarkable to him. So, here we've got the idea that a prophet saw God, but it wasn't even so terribly unusual. In other words, not only did Amos not get the memo from Maimonides that God doesn't have a body, interestingly, Amos does not seem to have gotten the memo from Exodus 33 that says humans cannot live if they see that body. He describes God's body as something that, you know, he saw and it's it's really not such a big deal. Really not a very big deal at all. Um, these are these are all texts that I, I think, are showing us that yes, the assumption is God has a body. The only question is, what's the nature of that body and to what extent can humans perceive that body, uh, without damage? That's the only issue. But the possibility that God doesn't have a body, that's just not coming up here. Maimonides is the radical. Maimonides and other philosophers of the Middle Ages are the ones who who are coming up with this new idea that God doesn't have a body.

Let's look at one more text that describes divine embodiment. Uh, and it's an especially complicated and therefore interesting one. Uh, take a look. Let's take a look at Exodus chapter 33. Schmot, lamed, gimmel. Exodus chapter 33. So, in New JPS, we're going to be on page 186. Uh, so JPS Hebrew English 186. And Jewish Study Bible, interestingly, also page 186. How odd.

Yeah, must be a sign. Um, yeah, also page 186. Uh, Exodus 33:1. This, we're actually jumping into the middle of a story here. Um, this describes the aftermath of the golden calf incident. So, the people have built the golden calf and God is not happy about it. Neither is Moses. Uh, there's various forms of punishment that occur. And then in the chapter that follows, in chapter 33, which we'll look at, we get a variety of reflections on the presence of God. So let's just read through this and see, um, see what we get. It, my opinion about this chapter is a very complex chapter. Actually, I have to admit that when I was, I spent about 10, 11 years working on this book, and at an earlier stage, one idea that I had was maybe focusing the entire book around Exodus 33. It's such a difficult, complicated chapter and a rich chapter that one idea I had was just making the whole book about that one chapter. Obviously, I ended up not going in that direction, but that's just to give you some sense of the complexity and the richness of this chapter.

So, let's just read on through. Um, you know, I wonder if, uh, if someone could grab me a, uh, a drink of water, that'd be helpful. So, Daraba. Uh, thanks. Um, so, Exodus 33, "After the golden calf had been destroyed and a great number of the people had been killed, the Lord said to Moses, 'Get up, go up from, go, go, go away from here, you and the people whom you brought out of the land of Egypt. Go towards the land that I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, um, concerning which I swore, saying, I will give it to your descendants, and I shall send my, I shall send a malak in front of you.'" Malak is usually translated angel, but I'll

Messenger.

Could just be a messenger. But we'll, we'll see in our second session that very often the word malak in the Torah doesn't mean a messenger, an angel, some heavenly or earthly being who is on a mission from God. Sometimes the word malak in Hebrew, in biblical Hebrew, can mean a small-scale manifestation of God. Sometimes it can mean just, um, God's presence, but not all of God's presence. Um, some body of God or manifestation of God or part of God that is only part. By the way, there's a word in Sanskrit in Hinduism, in early Hinduism, that describes the exact same idea. Does anyone happen to know?

Avatar?

Avatar, or actually in Sanskrit, avatara. And avatara, or in English it becomes avatar, is, is I think, is the exact same meaning as the word malak in this sense of the word. Um, so I think we could actually translate this, um, "Y'all go up to the land of Israel and I will send before you an avatar, and I will expel the Canaanites, the Amorites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, um, from that land, and you should go to the land flowing with milk and honey, because I myself will not go with you in your midst, because you're too stubborn. Um, I won't go with you, lest I destroy you on the way."

Um, let me just read verses two and three. I'm going to read a little selectively to focus on the parts that I want to focus on. I'll read it first in Hebrew and I'm going to translate the parts that I'm interested in. "I will send in front of you an avatar, and I will expel the Canaanites, and I will not go in your midst, lest I destroy you along the way." What's interesting? What's odd about these sentences? Who's doing the expelling and who isn't doing the expelling?

Barbara.

Well, if God, Godself, God in God's entirety goes, God is so, um, electric, shall we say, with the end and dangerous that God is likely to, um, just consume them. And don't forget, this came just after the plagues from the, uh, golden.

Yeah, we know God's angry.

Yeah, we know God's angry right now. No, what I'm saying is, you know, so I think that's part of it. Yet, if God just sends a portion of God, then they will be safe and the, and God's energy will just expel the other nations, not consume the Israelites.

Good. Jerry.

I, I was just going to say that the, the, uh, God know in their midst fully, he knows that they are going to sin along the way, that they're not going to pay attention to what.

Mhm.

Based upon their past behavior.

So if God, if God fully is with them, the anger, there's going to be an occasion for anger and it's just not going to work. Um, so is God with them or is God not with them according to these two verses? Is God, in other words, is this a, is this a set of verses in which we're finding out about divine absence among the people or divine presence?

Sandy, no, you're, Sandy, you're Adena. I'm sorry.

Yeah. First of all, I think I think that this seems similar to me as Moses's experience on my side when he couldn't see God because he, in the same way, God can't be with the people in it entirety because it would be too much for them. I, I don't mean that just anger. It's partially anger, but it's more than just anger. God can't fully be with them.

Uh, it, it's, it's just too much. It's a matter of anger, but it also, it's a matter of something else just in the nature of God. It's not moral indignation. It's just that God is too electric, too high voltage. What's odd about these verses to me is is this sort of interplay of divine presence and absence. On the one hand, God says, "I'm not going to be among you." And yet God uses the first person when to talk about what's going to happen to the Canaanites. "I will expel the Canaanites." So first, like the malak is being sent rather than God. But does it say, "And then the malak, the angel, will do the dirty work?" No. The malak apparently is a part of God because the first person verb is used. "I will expel them." Um, so I'm sending a part of myself. I'm sending this avatar. And so the work will be done by me, but I won't be fully in your presence. You're getting some idea here that God has a physical presence, but it's too much for the people. So there can be just a discrete part of that presence, which is God. That's why you get the first person verb, "I will expel," but it isn't exactly God, or it isn't all of God. There's still some hands, but we're running out of time. I want to get a little further into this chapter.

So, let's keep on going. In verse four, the people hear this and they take this as some sort of bad news, uh, because they go into mourning. They hear that God is no longer fully with them and they take off all their jewelry. They go into mourning. It would be inappropriate, having heard what they just heard, to continue wearing their jewelry. Um, in verse 6, this continues. They take off all of their jewelry. Then we're told somewhat abruptly in verse 7. The verb form switches. Let me see if it, the English, it does. Yeah, in in English, it does this too. There's a little line, I guess, and we start getting a different kind of verb. "Now Moses would take the tent, or Moses used to take a tent, and he would pitch it outside the camp, um, at some distance from the camp, and at this tent, God would come and talk to Moses." Um, and there's a description of this, um, in some detail. We won't read the whole thing, but let's say in verse 9, "It would happen when Moses arrived at the tent that God, that the pillar of cloud would come down and would stand at the entrance of the tent and it would speak to Moses, and the whole people saw this, and when this happened, they would stand up." Verse 11. "And God would speak to Moses panim el panim, literally face to face, or directly, like a human being, like a man speaks to his neighbor, and then he, Moses, would return to the tent." But his servant Joshua would stay at the tent the whole time.

So here we've got another description of divine presence. And this one, it's a little odd in that it's not the next thing that happened. This is a description of something that happened again and again. The verb form being used here in biblical Hebrew describes a recurring event. Something that happened not just once, but again and again over time. And God is present to some degree, but where is God present?

In the cloud.

So it, there's something visible, but not quite visible. I think the idea is that God is somewhere in the midst of this pillar of cloud so that we can't see God. So we can see that there's a, we, we know that God is there, but we can't see God. Paradoxically, as a result, we can look at it. If we, if God fully were there, we couldn't look, right? Because if we did, we'd die. But because God is probably surrounded by this cloud, we're able to gaze at greater length at this cloud. Um, so for one thing, God is in the cloud. Um, where is God in relation to the people when this happens?

Outside the camp, not within the camp.

God doesn't come into the camp itself. You Israelites, you live in your encampment. When I need to talk to God, to Moses, or when Moses needs to talk to me, I'll come on down to this special tent which you'll be able to see, but it's not in your midst. God is not in their midst. As we saw earlier in the chapter, God is there, but outside the camp in the wilderness, at a little bit of a distance from the Israelite camp. So God is there, but not here. Now again, this is very different from our our conception. God is not nowhere and everywhere. For us, God is invisible, non-physical, non-embodied. Therefore, God is nowhere but everywhere. This is different. God is someplace specific over there where we can see what surrounds God. But not here, not in our camp. And where is God usually? According to this, just these verses, just these verses, God, God pops in there to speak to Moses. But where is God popping in from?

Heaven.

From the heaven, apparently it says God would come down. "Yah ra," God used to come down from the heavens to talk to Moses, and then apparently would go back up from the top of.

Maybe from the top of Sinai. But this is a description of a tent that occurs again later in the Torah, again in Numbers chapters 11 and 12, and finally again in Deuteronomy chapter 31. In fact, we read about it just yesterday in Shul, at which point Numbers 11, 12, Deuteronomy 31, they're long removed from Sinai. So I think that when it says God used to do this, God would do this frequently, it's including the whole 40 years, at which point they're no longer anywhere near Sinai. So I think that it's God is coming down, probably not from Sinai, but from, from the heavens.

Professor.

He's not in the tent of meeting. This, this is a description of an ohel moed, a tent of meeting, that is very different from the description of the tent of meeting that we're going to get later in the book of Exodus in chapters 3, um, 5 through 40, um, and which will then occur again and again in the book of Leviticus. We're getting a totally different picture. That tent that is described later in Exodus and in Leviticus is located inside the camp, inside the machaneh, in the middle of the camp. This one is outside. That tent is a grand structure. It's called a tent, but, you know, it's a, it's Donald Trump's tent. It's made of wood. It's made of gold and silver. It's got all sorts of fancy stuff. This is a little tent that you just pitch. You can pitch this tent. It's, it's not a big tent. So, there's two different, um, two different memories in the Torah of the ohel, of the tent, that are vastly different from each other. This one is from what we Bible scholars call the E document, the Elohistic document. The other one that you're thinking of, which is much more prominent, is from the P document, the Priestly document. I think that different Israelites had vastly different historical memories of what had happened back in the time of the desert. This one is representing God as being usually present in heaven. When, on rare occasion, God would come to the planet Earth, God would come to Earth and talk to Moses outside the camp. Whereas for the, for the P author, God actually left heaven to come and live on the planet Earth in the midst of the Israelite encampment. So, two very different historical memories.

Um, Mhm. So my question was, is this a pre-Mish?

The thing is, it's pre-Mish and it's also at the same time as the Mishkan. The Mishkan, or the priestly memory, or the priestly description of the tent, um, is built a few chapters after this, but then we get both of them described in the book of Numbers. So, what I think what we're getting here is the P document and the E document, which were originally separate books, both talk about a tent that existed during the 40 years in the wilderness, but they have vastly different recollections, historical memories from their ancestors of where that tent was located, what it looked like, and how it functioned. So, it's, it's not that it's pre or post or simultaneous. It. These are two competing narratives, competing historical narratives describing ancient Israelite history. Um, so as a Bible scholar, I'm not trying to harmonize these. I'm just noting that our ancestors and forebears in ancient Israel, they all remember a tent. But interestingly, they remember that tent in different ways. And the editor of the Torah doesn't force us to choose between them. The editor of the Torah puts both of those historical memories into this book that becomes our holy book. Our holy book is not P and it's not E, but it's the combined J, E, P, and D that has both memories. And somehow we Jews have to accept both memories as as as teaching us something important about God that we have to accept, even though there's a tension or even a contradiction between these two memories. But the editor of the Torah doesn't choose. It gives the editor of the Torah gives us both these memories and we've got to learn something from both of them without ever finding out exactly how things really were. Does that make any sense? That answer?

We'll talk.

Okay. We've got plenty of time to talk not only during these sessions but at meals and, you know, that's part of the, the way this thing is designed. Um, we'll have, there's that time. There's going to be, I think, another time that I'll be available. Uh, I think it'll be that's today, but I think it'll be good if we add some time tomorrow to the schedule because then we'll have had more sessions and I think we'll need more than one of those. So, we'll talk further. Yes.

How do you account for the Moses sees God face to face where from the people's point of view that he can be hidden as a cloud but face to face to face?

Yes. So in in verse 11 of our chapter, Moses has a status that nobody else has. Moses gets to talk to God face to face, which no other Israelite, not even apparently Joshua, gets to do. And I think that's easy to explain. Moses is at a much higher level than than everybody else.

He doesn't fear dying.

And Moses at this point has apparently been in direct contact enough with God that he no longer fears dying. In Exodus chapter 3, the first time Moses sees God, initially Moses is frightened, but Moses gets confident even during the course of that conversation. So that by the end of that passage in Exodus 4, Moses is beginning to talk back to God, is getting a little uppity. Um, and from there on out, up until the day he dies, up until he sees God face to face the last time and God kisses him to death. But Isaiah and Ezekiel.

Still think that they have to fear dying.

So Isaiah and Ezekiel in that regard resemble Moses, cuz Moses initially was afraid in Exodus 3, but I think they never become quite as familiar as Moses. They, they, they never get quite as as confident as Moses does. But anyway, these are prophets. They have abilities that we don't have.

The rest of us can't see God in that same way.

Um, seek God.

I'm sorry.

In this chapter, it says Moses and I.

So, I'll come to that in a second, but let's, let's stay on this question first on verse 11, then we'll go to that verse. Um, so in verse 11, what we're getting is the idea that Moses is different from the rest of us. You also get that in in Numbers 12, by the way, very explicitly where we're told in Numbers 12, um, let me actually, I'll just quote this out loud. Um, in Numbers chapter 12, which is from the same document, it also describes the same tent. It's very much from the same author. In 12:7, we're told, "Generally speaking, prophets see God as in a dream or in a mirror." And you got to stop and remember, what does it mean to say that they see God in a mirror? In the ancient world, mirrors were not like our mirrors. Mirrors were made of highly burnished bronze and they, they just weren't as high quality as our mirrors. When you looked at yourself in a mirror in the ancient world, in this kind of bumpy, polished, but not polished the way we polish things because they didn't have the same technology we have, in this sort of bumpy bronze mirror, you see an image that is smaller than you really are, blurry because the the bronze is a little bumpy and red. So in the ancient world, to say "I saw it as in a mirror," in our, maybe for us, you'd say, you know, "I saw it as if though through blurry, blurry glass." You're not really seeing. It's not a good image. Um, so others, other prophets were told, see God like in a mirror. They see a smaller, blurrier, redder version, but Moses saw God directly and spoke to God face to face. So part of the explanation is just that Moses is at a higher level than other prophets, much less regular individuals.

On the other hand, I think, as I think it was Morris is pointing out, you go a little further in this chapter and what do we read, um, that is back in Exodus chapter 33, and we get the verse. Moses, a little later in the chapter, says to God, "Where is that? What verse am I looking at?"

18.

Uh, 18. "In verse 18, 'Oh God, show me your kavod,' which I would translate as, 'Show me your body.'" Um, and then a little later, God responds negatively and says in verse 20, "You can't see my face," um, "because a human won't see me. A human can't see me and live." A few verses after that, actually, when we get to verse, uh, in chapter 34, God passes by Moses. Um, at the beginning of chapter 34, um, God says to Moses, "Okay, Moses, you want to see me? This is how much you can see. Stand in this little cliff of the rock, in this little cave, um, and I'll go past you and I'll pronounce my name, and then you'll see my back, but you won't see my front." So God passes by and God puts God's kapayim, God's hands, in front of Moses so that Moses won't see God's face. So we learn something, by the way, about, um, about the hand. It must be a gigantic hand if it can cover up this whole cleft in the rock. And then God takes the, the, um, if Moses is like right here, God passes by kind of like this. So that Moses is briefly able to get a glimpse of God's back as God is going away, >> but Moses can't see God's front.

So this actually contradicts what we saw in verse 11, right? Verse 11, it says that Moses spoke to God panim el panim, face to face. A little later, the same chapter says, "No, no, no, no, nobody, not even Moses, not even the greatest prophet in the history of the world gets to see God's face." Yeah, you've heard that he saw God. He saw God's back as God was moving away. That's as much as he was able to see. This is a blatant contradiction within this chapter, and I think the reason is this chapter is giving us a variety of traditions concerning God's presence, God's body, and the extent to which we can see God's body. And these traditions differ from each other because different Israelites, different Judeans, different biblical authors had different theological ideas. And this, this chapter doesn't come to give us the answer to the question, "Can anybody see God?" What it's coming to do, and this is very often the case in the Bible, is it's coming to give us a variety of opinions on this important issue. It's coming to allow us to begin a conversation, a debate about this important issue. It's coming to give us parameters for asking the questions and having the conversation. It's not coming to give us the answers. This is something that I think is very often the case in the Tanakh. It doesn't come to give us the answers. It comes to give us parameters of the conversation. There are some answers that are completely unacceptable and outside the parameters. There's only one God that matters. You can't be a polytheist. There is one God that matters. You can't be an atheist. There are certain, the parameters are theologically fairly narrow. Polytheism and atheism are completely outside the bounds. You got to believe in God, maximum one, minimum one. But within that, then there are parameters within which they don't give us an answer. They give us a guide to the conversation. So this chapter tells us Moses did see God face to face again and again. Again, the verb form used in verses 7-11 is frequentative. It describes activity that happens again and again. Later in the same chapter, it says, "No, no one can see God." Period. Then it says, "Well, Moses did see God's back, but not God's front." There's a, a wide variety of possible answers that we're being given here. We won't even go into all of it. There's even some other interesting terminology that's used here for God's presence, including some that you hear, but we're already 7 minutes over, so we're not going to go into that. For all the debate that this chapter gives us, for all the different sorts of opinions that we saw in Isaiah, Ezekiel, and even more different opinions in Amos chapter 9:1, what never is under debate in any of these passages is the possibility that there's no divine body to be seen. All of the questioning involves, "What happens if a human sees the divine body?" "Under what conditions can a human see the divine body?" "Can a human see all or only part of the divine body?" "Is the divine body on the planet Earth or is it located normally in heaven?" "When it is on Earth, does it pop in briefly or does it stay for a while?" There's all sorts of other questions being asked. But what we all learned in Hebrew school, that's never an option here. The notion that God is simply invisible, that God is nowhere yet everywhere, that kind of Maimonidean, medieval, modern notion of God, that's not here. And at this point, we've gotten to about where we're ready to begin, um, our discussion. We haven't actually started yet. Class sessions haven't even begun. They're going to begin in a couple hours. We're now ready to begin our conversation because I hope to have demonstrated that, surprise, surprise, the God of the Bible has a body. And what the bo, the Bible wants us to debate about is what sort of body it is. And we'll see soon how many bodies there are. But the, but the, the bedrock assumption of everything we'll be doing is that what they taught us in Hebrew school historically speaking was not the case.

Thank you very much. You turn it over again.

Thank you. Great. So we still, uh, before we start this lecture, we were still finishing this, the schmooze section. We had gotten about this far in our clockwise movement and there were some hands that were still up. So let's just for a few minutes catch these last questions, then move on to the next lecture. Um, Morris.

Right.

Right. In the readings, uh, that you gave us, uh, you had fire as one of the elements. I think of fire, symbol knowledge. It's something you can, you can aspire to. We all aspire to be gods. Great. We can't touch knowledge. If you do, you.

Um.

Yeah.

Mhm.

But that brings me to the next question. We ate and gardened from the tree of knowledge of that we eaten from the other tree, not of the body eternal and like God. So what, what does that mean?

I don't want to get too far off on that. I think that raises a whole different, uh, set of questions. But so let me just answer very briefly. I think that the, I think the idea there in Ex, in Genesis chapter 3 is we've got access to one or the other tree, but not both. And having taken from the tree of knowledge, we now lose access to the tree of life. In other words, as humans, we're like God, but only to some extent. Initially, we were immortal, but not knowledgeable, not capable of moral choice. Having become capable of moral choice, we now had to lose access to the tree of life. Um, and we become limited in in lifespan. I think that's the idea there. That's a whole different topic. So I don't want to get too, too much over on onto Genesis 2 and 3.

So next person, as we move clockwise, your, uh, statement about the, does that have anything to do with?

No, it sounds a little similar, but etymologically and in terms of meaning, they're completely unrelated words. Um, not, not related at all. Uh, good question, but no.

Mhm. At the beginning of the session, you said God has many bodies and then later you said Ezekiel referred to Elohim. Is that Elohim referring to God's many bodies? And the reason I ask that is that some Christian friends of mine said that the idea of the Trinity comes from the Jews.

I'm going to, um, so you do have two questions, real quickly. Ezekiel, well, three things. The word Elohim in Hebrew is a plural noun, but it is often used, I mean, often in the sense of hundreds and hundreds of times used of the one God. That is, it's what, what grammarians call a plural of majesty. Now, some, so Elohim usually in the Bible, just is translated correctly as God with a capital G. It's called the plural of majesty. On the other hand, there are cases in the Bible where Elohim refers to refers to God's plural, small G, that is, lower-ranking heavenly beings who are subservient to God with a capital G. And usually context makes it very clear which we're talking about. There are a few cases where we can debate which word is intended. In the case of Ezekiel, I don't think that he's referring to God's many bodies for reasons that we'll see in the third lecture. Um, the Trinity, I'm going to hold off on that. Let's come back. We'll come back to the Trinity in the fourth lecture.

Um, moving along. Mhm. We spoke here a lot about the bodily aspect of God. To me, it does not seem strange at all because we have to remember the Israelites were living in the surrounding of people than worshiping idols, and idols is the real thing. Now, in addition, the ancient people, they were more concrete in their thinking, and they did not have the abstraction that was achieved by the Greek. Now comes the question, why, why would expelled because they said it's possible that God has aspects. One of the things Houston.

Why? So I think both points you made are excellent points and we'll, we'll really come back to both of them and if we.

So the, the idea, um, that I'm sorry, I forgot your name.

Jacob.

Jacob, um, that Jacob, um, expressed was that when you stop and think about it, it isn't so surprising that the Bible, that ancient Israelite literature refers to God having a body because for one thing, in the area, in the ancient Near East, the ancestors and the neighbors of the Israelites in all directions prayed to idols. Divinity was something that needed to be concretized. And so it's not so surprising that Israelites, um, would think concretely about, um, about God. And ancients tended to think in very concrete terms up until the Greeks really refined the sort of abstract thinking, the philosophical thinking that for us as Western individuals is just second nature. It's taken 2,500 years, but it's second nature to us. Um, I think those are both great points. Um, the last question, I don't want to spend too much time on about Spinoza. Uh, Spinoza had a notion of of God as embodied in in his own way. Uh, Spinoza had that, that that's one of the points that the, the bait din in Amsterdam held against him when they excommunicated him. Um, and so why, given what I'm saying, why should that have been a big deal? Well, of course, that baked in was thoroughly, thoroughly Maimonidean. By that time, Maimonides had won. And so saying something like this, um, was radical. Saying what Spinoza said was radical from the point of view of a Jewish community that really venerated Maimonides. Um, and then in addition to that, Spinoza had, there are a lot of other things on the chart sheet. Um, Spinoza really actually was a heretic. I myself am not in favor of getting Fate Din together to expel people, but actually the, the bin had the facts on their side. I mean, Spinoza was not a Jewish thinker.

He wasn't an atheist.

Yeah.

Well, is he an atheist or he was his own kind of deist, but, but anyway, this is the Kan Spinoza. Uh, so I'm going to move along. Mhm.

So, to what extent, uh, you say this idea, Maimonides, uh, really wanted to have this idea of God not having a body. To what extent did Christianity, Trinity, influence Maimonides to go against this type of thing?

I'm not sure that the question is, to what extent did the Christian idea of infinity influence Maimonides to move away from the notion of divine embodiment? I don't think, and again, I'm not a Maimonides scholar. Um, so I'm really, as they say, I'm slumming here. Um, but I don't think that Christianity played a gigantic role in in Maimonides' thinking. Reacting to Christianity wasn't the biggest thing on his mind. Though it probably played some roles. I mean, he knew about Christianity, but he spent his entire, entire life living in the Muslim world. His intellectual partners outside Judaism were Muslim philosophers. Um, even to the extent that he was deeply influenced by Greek philosophy and admired Greek philosophy, um, he knew all the Greek philosophy through the Arab world. He didn't know Greek. He read his Aristotelianism in Arabic. So, I, I don't think Christianity was necessarily that huge on in his mind. I think rather, while that may have played some role, I think that the main impetus was his commitment to certain Greek ideals of abstract thinking, um, and to a certain dualism. Um, to get back to a question that had been asked earlier, to the, the thoroughly dualistic view that he had, um, of the nature of humanity and divinity.

I'm Anita. My husband passed on, Solomon, and I enjoyed these ladies through the years. Um, uh, I speak from a reformed kind of background, and the way I would talk to God tells me who God is, actually, through the ages. I was interested since we're welcoming God, uh, that, you know, "Open up your gates, O God of righteousness, and come in." And Abraham's welcoming strangers, always think of his tent, always welcoming. And you say God was outside the tent. I mean, Abraham would certainly have to. So, I was thinking that God is speaking, and, uh, and we're speaking to God in many different psychologies. [clears throat] I'm particularly interested in, uh, uh, God, God becomes angry. He is retaliatory in many ways. But in Reform, we always learn that, uh, we do not punish, and that God is a forgiving God. That's what peace of God is all about. So, how do you put those two ideas together, that we're welcoming, and yet we're seeing God as a very punitive, um, being in whatever we want?

And the question of God as a punitive God and as a forgiving God was one of the major tensions in the Hebrew Bible and a very productive tension. Tremendous topic. I don't think offhand it's directly related to what I'm dealing with here, which is the notion of divine embodiment. Um, so I think I'm just going to punt on that one. That's another topic to talk about, but that would be a whole different, that would be a whole different set of of classes. Um, so I'm going to see, going to see if there's any other questions over here. Yes.

Yes. Um, I've been wondering what it is that has changed to convince me that, uh, the writers of the Bible saw God as having at least one body. But it's clear also that we don't believe that. That something has changed. And Jay mentioned something earlier about the concreteness of our, of our ancestors. I was also wondering, anyone who understands and observes the thinking of children knows that youngsters are very concrete, and when they become adolescents, their their thinking becomes more abstract, and their ability to become more abstract. I'm wondering if there's any relationship. There was clearly something at stake between the time the Bible was written and the time we read it today.

I think part of it is that we Jews are introduced to and gain a lot from the abstract thinking of the, um, of the Greeks. So I think that that's one of the things that changes. Um, and as is often the case in Jewish culture, there is much to be learned from our environment. Um, it's not that we've got all the right ways and the best ways of thinking about things. One of the, the great changes in Jewish culture occurs as early medieval Jewish philosophers begin to synthesize Greek philosophy, especially Aristotelian philosophy, with, uh, with Jewish thinking. I, I think that that's really what changes. That Judaism begins to become Westernized, uh, in the early Middle Ages. Um, okay. I think we're at, it's 7:30, about. So, we should move on a little bit after 7:30. We should move on to our next lecture. Um, which, which we'll, we'll really start talking about this notion of not just God's bodies, but God's many bodies. Now, to talk about this, what I, uh, actually two things I'd like to do. One, let me just ask, should this now be on this thing here?

It's been on.

It's been on. Okay. Gotcha. Since we're about to start that this second lecture, um, we're going to, um, we're going to be using the handout a bit. So, some of you may have it already, but just in case some of you didn't bring it with you, let's, let me pass these around. Here you go. Uh, either take one or pass it along. For the beginning of this session, we're going to leave the Bible and we're going to leave ancient Israel for a while because for us to get a sense of this very strange ancient Israelite theology that I want to discuss during tonight's session, we'll need first of all to put the Bible in its own cultural context. And the cultural context of ancient Israel is the ancient Near East. The ancestors of the Israelites and the neighbors of the Israelites were the Canaanites, the Babylonians, the Assyrians, um, perhaps to some smaller degree, the Egyptians. And to understand how biblical Israelites thought, to enter their mind, to enter their thought world, we've got to recover some ancient Near Eastern ways of thinking about divinity, uh, that won't be obvious to us modern Western people. So I want to spend some time just talking about first Mesopotamian, which is to say Babylonian and Assyrian notions of divinity, and then some Canaanite and Aramean notions of divinity. Um, because something that I began to sense, um, in my own studies of Mesopotamian literature, especially Babylonian literature, especially, was that there's a whole different conception of a type of being, a type of existence that the Mesopotamians had when they thought about their gods. There's a fundamental difference between divinity and humanity in Mesopotamian thinking. And I think that that fundamental difference is often assumed by ancient Israelite writers. So to understand certain parts of the Bible, we need to go over to Babylon. So let's take this handout and in Roman numeral one and following, let's, let's go and look at, actually, these are Assyrian texts, um, some some Assyrian texts that tell us something about how human beings and divine beings differed from.

Each other. I think that there are two ways in particular that humans and divine beings differed from each other qualitatively, not just quantitatively in terms of, well, they're bigger than us and they're stronger and they can do magic better than we can. That's one difference between the gods and humans, but that's really a quantitative difference. We're similar, but they're just bigger and better than we are.

But there's also a qualitative difference. Um, I've suggested in, uh, in some of my research, and that qualitative difference comes down to two main differences that are closer, closely related. First of all, a divinity can fragment into smaller-scale divinities that retain some aspect of the god from whom they are derived and yet have a little bit of independence as well. So that, in other words, a divinity has a certain fluidity of self, whereas myself is just myself. This is me, and you're you, and that's the end of the story. With a god, that's not necessarily the case. A god can kind of fragment so that myself might be more than oneself, who are all related to each other but have a little bit of independence. That's one kind of, um, fluidity that the gods have that we don't have. And that will mean, in part, that a god can have more than one body.

Second, a god's self can overlap temporarily with the self of another god. So, whereas I'm Ben and Mars is Mars, and we can shake hands as we were demonstrating. We practiced this for like a half an hour. Uh, it went really well. Um, but we don't become the same person. Well, the god Enki and the god Marduk, they're separate beings with their own personalities and their own bodies. And yet, they can also mingle for a little while, merge, and then unmingle, unmerge, and become separate again. So there's a fluidity of self that the gods have that we don't have.

Let's look at an example first of all of that fragmentation. Something that happens often in ancient Near Eastern literature is that you find that there are many different gods who have the same name but they have different, act different geographic locations or some other modifier to their name, and at some level, they are the same deity, and yet at some level, they're not. So, for example, in Roman numeral 1 on the handout, um, we've got here just a couple of lines out of a long treaty, um, that was signed between the Assyrian emperor, um, Esarhaddon, um, and King Ramataya of a place called Purak Hazanu, who was a, a local petty king. And when these treaties between ancient Near Eastern kings were signed, the witnesses to the treaty, to this little, to this legal document, were typically the gods of the two peoples. So you get lists of the gods in these treaties. Um, and in the list of the Assyrian gods, we find references to Ishtar, the goddess Ishtar of the city of Arbella, but also another goddess named Ishtar of the city of Nineveh. Plus, there's also a reference to the planet, planet Venus, um, who is generally speaking equated with heavenly Ishtar. So, there's three different goddesses named Ishtar listed separately in this treaty. Later in the text, um, they're, they're mentioned again along with an Ishtar of Kamish.

The same thing happens in Roman numeral 2. Um, a treaty between the Assyrian emperor Ashur-nirari and Matiu of a city of, of a country, a city called Arpad. Um, here we find references to the gods Adad and Shalah, to Ishtar the Lady of Nineveh, Ishtar, the Lady of Arbella, to another god, Adad-kur-bil, and Adad of Aleppo. And then the text is cut there, but it's probably Aleppo. Adad of Aleppo. So, we've got two different Ishtars and three different Adads. Adad being generally another name for the god whom the Canaanites called Baal. Um, so you've got these gods with the same name. And in ancient Near Eastern thinking, a name, a shem, uh, in Hebrew, a shuma in Akkadian, a name wasn't just a, a sound that represents something. A name was thought to be the essence of something. So for two deities to have the same name might be a way of saying that at their core, their very essence, they're the same goddess, but they're different goddesses because they're listed separately. Um, you get a sense of this even more so in Roman numeral 3, which is a poem, a prayer, um, which the, the Assyrian emperor Ashurbanipal prayed to the goddesses Ishtar of Nineveh and Ishtar of Arbella. In this he says the following. "Exalt," he prays. "Exalt and glorify the Lady of Nineveh. Magnify and praise the Lady of Arbella, who have no equal among the great gods." Now, you might have thought maybe Lady of Nineveh, Lady of Arbella are just two terms for the same goddess. But the next line clearly uses the plural form: "they have." Not "she has." But in the Akkadian, it's very clearly "they have" no equal among the great gods. The great gods, their names, um, the, the suffix here for "their" is -sha. It's clearly a plural suffix and not -sha, which would be a, a singular suffix. "Their names are most precious among the goddesses. Their cult centers have no equal among all the shrines. A word from their lips is blazing fire. Their utterances are valid forever. I am Ashurbanipal, their favorite. I grew up in the lap of my goddesses. The Lady of Nineveh, the mother who bore me, endowed me with unparalleled kingship. The Lady of Arbella, my creator, ordered everlasting life for me. They decreed," the form here is a feminine plural form, *ishimu*, "they decreed, as my fate to exercise dominion over all the inhabited regions. They caused kings to bow down at my feet."

Now, these are clearly two different beings. The grammatical forms used are plural or sometimes dual grammatical forms, and yet they do the same thing. They act completely in concert. They act in parallel. They act as one. Um, in this poem, they're grammatically separate, but at their essence and at the level of their actions, they're not separate at all. Furthermore, when we go from the poem or from these legal treaties to the realm of mythology, there's only one Ishtar. There's no myth about Ishtar of Arbella who one day, you know, goes and visits her cousin Ishtar of Nineveh. There's just Ishtar. There's only one Ishtar. Um, similarly, uh, in Canaanite texts, which I haven't given you on, on the handout, we have lists of many, many different Baals, but there's only one Baal in mythology. You don't have stories about different Baals who, who interact with each other. So that at some level, all these different gods, they are, but they are not the same. Why? Because a god is different from a human. A god can fragment into lots of local manifestations who, whom you can pray to separately, and yet deep down, they're all really the same.

Um, you get some sense of this, um, this fragmentation and overlap also in, in another text, which is Roman numeral 4, where we're told that various deities, various gods are aspects of, more, more literally, are body parts of the god Ninurta. So that in this prayer to Ninurta, one says, "O Lord, your face is Shamash, who is the sun god. Your locks are Nisaba. Your eyes, O Lord, are Enlil, the god of the storm and the wind, and his wife Ninlil. Your eyeballs are Gulat and Belellat Ili. Your eyelids, O Lord, are the two twins, Sin, the god of the moon, and Shamash, the god of the sun." So all these different deities, they have their own independent existence. And yet, at some level, they're perceived to be parts of the god Ninurta. There are other texts like this that do the same thing with other deities. Various deities, they're all parts of the god Marduk, for example. Um, so that various gods apparently to some degree merge with each other to form another god.

In, um, in *Enuma Elish*, which is the Babylonian creation epic, the main character is Marduk, the god Marduk, whose father's name is also an important character. He is Ea. They're different gods, but at one point in the epic, Ea and Marduk seem to merge with each other. They seem to become the same deity for a little while, but over the long term, they're different deities. Furthermore, Marduk is called by the name of the god Enlil and the name of the god Ea and the name of the god Anu. So that a name for Marduk is, um, is Enlil-Anu. Three different gods who somehow seem to combine with Marduk. And yet, they remain separate gods. The, they have their own mythology. There's stories about each one individually. They have their own temples. They have their own statues. They have their own rituals. Deities can merge. They can overlap with each other. They can fragment. So there's some extent to which there's this fluidity in the realm of the deities that just doesn't exist among us humans.

Um, question. >> I'm sorry. >> How much of this? >> Some of it may have been political, but I think that it wasn't just political. There's other ways of describing one god's or one city's union with another city or one city's, um, conquest of another city. If it, if it was just political, I think that there are simpler solutions. Uh, in any event, even if this solution is in large part political, the fact is that this is the model that they're using to, to, if, if they are using this model to express a political idea, the model is still there. This is the model they chose for it. It's a model that explains some sort of fluidity, that assumes some sort of fluidity in the selfhood of these gods.

Um, there's another way in which we see these gods as being somewhat overlapping, um, which is in some ritual texts. We get stunningly boring ritual texts that just list, um, what sacrifices have to be offered to a particular god on a certain holiday. Um, and in some of these lists, you get, you know, you give two bulls to Enlil, two bulls to Anu, two bulls to Ashur, but then you also get, "and two bulls to Anu-Ashur, and two bulls to Enlil-Ashur, and two bulls to Marduk-Ashur." So that Marduk and Anu and Enlil, they're all listed on their own as their own deity, but then they seem to merge for a while, and you give other sacrifices to the merged deity. So Anu is an individual. Marduk is an individual, but they're also mingling in their identity for, for part of the ritual. This is the, what I would call the fluidity of divine selfhood.

>> Mhm. The date of this? >> These texts are from a wide variety of time periods, going back to the second millennium and in the first millennium, but the majority of the texts that I'm looking at tend to be, um, early first millennium from Mesopotamia. Early first millennium, that is >> An arrow? >> No, no, no. BCE. >> I'm a Bible scholar. If I mention a date, it means BCE. That's the default value. Um, all dates are lower than zero. Um, if it's over zero, it's not scholarship, it's journalism. Um, >> So the, I'm sorry. >> These are contemporaneous with the split kingdom? >> Some are contemporaneous, but a lot of the texts that I'm citing are from a bit before the time of. So some of the, some of these texts are pre-Israelite texts. Um, some of the ones that I'm looking at, and some of them are contemporaneous. Mhm. I don't think so. I don't, because Elohim isn't a name. Elohim is a job title. Um, the word Hashem, spelled with the letters Yod, Heh, Vav, Heh, that's a personal name. But El or Elohim, that's a job title like lawyer or doctor or policeman. Um, so that that wouldn't be an example of what I'm talking about. That's Hashem. Elohim is God's name followed by God's job title.

>> Master. >> I'm sorry. >> Mas? >> Masculine. Yeah. >> Why do we have the name Mordecai, which means >> I have no idea. It's a great question. Why in the book of Esther do we get two main Jewish characters who both have the names of pagan deities, Marduk and Esther? Marduk-Ishtar is a great question, the answer to which I don't know, and neither does anyone else to my knowledge. It's, it is fascinating, but we don't know the answer.

>> Maybe this is Howard's question phrased differently. Uh, so I apologize, but since we have several source, the J, P, and D sources that we have kept, is it possible that the same thing happened with, you know, Enlil and whoever and so forth, that they somehow, there were some that had one and some of the other, they put it together? >> No, I don't think so, because Enlil remains Enlil. Marduk remains Marduk, even though it is simply in the nature of their being that they can also mingle, overlap temporarily, or fragment. That there are local Marduks. Actually, we don't have local Marduks, but there are local Ishtars and local Adads.

One other aspect of this multiplicity of the gods has to do with their bodies. And for this, we're going to have to pause for a minute and learn a little bit about the statues or icons or idols of the ancient Mesopotamian deities. Um, when you built an idol, when you constructed an idol in ancient Mesopotamia, you didn't just physically construct it. That wasn't enough to make it an idol. Uh, when the artisan, the goldsmith or the silversmith or the carpenter has done his work, once they finish their work, it's not yet an idol. To become an idol or an icon, or the, the Babylonian word happens to be *salmu*, *salmu*, which is related to the Hebrew term *tselem*, actually, to become a *salmu*, you had to take this object and perform a certain ritual on it. The ritual was known as the *pîta-pî* ceremony, which means the mouth-opening ceremony, or the *miš-pî* ceremony, which means the mouth-washing ceremony. *Pîta-pî*, by the way, *pî* is like the word *petach* in Hebrew, and *pî* is like *peh* in Hebrew. Um, these, these are Babylonian Assyrian words which are cognate to Hebrew terms. In the con, in this ceremony, um, the priests were able to bring the presence of the god literally into the object, so that the object was no longer simply a thing, but [clears throat] it had become, in fact, the god's body. And you get a very clear sense of this. It's very explicit in a lot of these *pîta-pî* texts. For example, um, one of the *pîta-pî* texts that describes this ritual says the following. This is Roman numeral 5. The priest who's performing the ceremony is directed as follows: "Into the ears of that god, you speak as follows." The word "god" here is referring to the statue. So, into the ear of the statue, the Mesopotamian statues, they were made with eyes and ears and a nose and a mouth and so forth. These are all parts that the, the artisans, the goldsmith or the carpenter would have put onto the statue. So, "Into the ears of that god, i.e., that statue, you speak as follows: 'You are counted among your brother gods. You whisper into his right ear: From today, your destiny may be counted as divinity with your brother gods you are counted.'" Another text says, "On the day when the god, that is the statue, was created and the pure statue was completed, the god was made visible in all the land. He is clothed in splendor suited to lordliness, lordly. He is full of pride, surrounded with radiance. He's endowed with awesome radiance. He shines out splendidly. The statue appears brilliantly." In other words, he was very bright. Um, this brightness that they describe as surrounding the statue is the brightness that surrounds a Mesopotamian deity in, in all sorts of Mesopotamian literature. I give you just a couple of examples of similar descriptions, let's say, of the god Asalluhi, which is another name for Marduk. Um, but we could find similar descriptions for, for dozens and dozens of other gods. So the imagery, the poetic imagery that normally applies to a god is applied to the god statue because once the mouth of the statue has been opened and cleaned, once this *pîta-pî* *miš-pî* ceremony has taken place, the statue is no longer a statue. It is now a god.

Um, there's actually one Mesopotamian text I didn't put onto the, um, onto the handout that actually says, "Until the *pîta-pî* ceremony is performed, the god cannot smell the offerings, cannot hear the prayers." Now, some of you know from the book of Psalms in Hallel, for example, in Psalm 115 or 116, you get the exact same language except it's negative. The psalmist insists they're idols. They can't hear, they can't see, they can't talk. But in fact, the Mesopotamians believed that they could. That the eyes, the jewelry that the two jewels that were put to be the eyes of the statue, and the ear that was carved out of the wood, that once you did the *pîta-pî* ceremony, it wasn't just a jewel. It was really an eye that could see. It wasn't just a representation of an ear by a sculptor. It was actually an ear that could hear. And so the god was present in the statue. They thought this really quite literally. Statues were gods. They also, from the way they wrote the word "statue," it was clear that they thought a statue of a god had become a god. There's a certain way of spelling any divine name that they use for these statues.

But what's interesting to me in particular, there's a lot of other scholars who have pointed this out about the *pîta-pî* ceremony. This is my own research. What is interesting to me that I, that I point out, um, in my book, is we just need to pause to remember that there's more than one statue of Marduk. Yes, once you've made a statue of Marduk and you perform the *pîta-pî* ceremony, it's the body of Marduk, but there's lots of statues of Marduk all over Mesopotamia. In Marduk's temple, there's a big statue of Marduk. But you know what? Across the street from Marduk's temple is the temple of Marduk's son, Nabu. And in the temple of Nabu, there is a, a special shrine for Marduk that has a Marduk statue. So, right across the street from each other in Babylon, there are two bodies of Marduk. And that's just in Babylon. Travel a few miles outside of Babylon, you'll get to another town that has a smaller, less grand temple for Marduk. And there you'll find yet another body of Marduk. And over Mesopotamia, you'll find dozens of bodies of Marduk. Um, what's interesting is not just that the, that *salmu*, the statue, was literally the presence of the god, but that the god was present in many different places. The body of the god was present in many different places. Or to put it differently, Marduk had many bodies. Ishtar had many bodies. This makes sense when you stop to think about how there's an Ishtar of Nineveh, an Ishtar of Arbella. Um, well, yes, literally in the city of Nineveh, there was a main Ishtar statue, but in Nineveh, there was an Ishtar statue too. So you get multiple bodies of any given deity. Well, this fits the fluidity model that I've been describing. A, a god is not limited but in, in terms of space and time. A god can be in many different places, specific places. So there's, there's just this difference between humanity and divinity in the way that Babylonians and Assyrians think that they can be in many places at once, and we cannot. This isn't just a qual, a quantitative difference. It's not just that they're more powerful and smarter than we are. It's a qualitative difference. The nature of their being is fundamentally different than the nature of our being because they can fragment. They can be fluid and yet remain a single being. Marduk in the end is still just Marduk. There's only one mythology of Marduk. The stories of Marduk are all about the same Marduk.

Um, I'll pause here before we, we leave Mesopotamia, just to take a few questions, and then we're going to travel over to Canaan. Uh, over here. >> How is this the same or different? Um, in modern Christianity? >> Yes. >> You have the infant of, for example? >> Yes. >> Christ child figure, which they like to dress up. >> Mary. >> And Mary. Even more so in Catholicism, you have Marian, um, pieties. Exact Mary of Fatima, Mary of Guadalupe, Mary of, um, the famous Black Mary in Poland. Who is that? >> Czestochowa? I'm not sure. >> Um, yeah, I think it's, I think it's the exact same idea in Catholicism. Or maybe even to put it differently, as Catholicism moved into new areas historically, local female deities were combined with Mary very easily because you could have a deity in more than one place anyway. So, you know, I think it's very, very similar, uh, to the phenomenon that we find in Catholicism, especially with Mary, maybe also to some degree, well, and also to some degree with Jesus, but I'm going to hold off until my fourth lecture. I'm going to come back to this. My fourth lecture, I think there's a sense in which we see this not only with the infant Jesus but with the adult Jesus as well, but we'll, we'll come back to that. But, but in, to give a one-word answer, yes, you're right. Or you said, how is this different or the same? It's the same or very, very similar.

>> Mhm. It seems like in these cases, uh, any village person that calls themselves a priest should end now at least a hard godlike property. >> Well, so there, there's no end to, there's no end to it. But I wouldn't just say any old person who calls themselves a priest. Priests were people who had very specialized training. It's not any old person can't just call themselves a priest of a priest of Marduk. Um, to be a priest of Marduk, you had to have a lot of specialized training. You probably needed to know how to read, which was an extraordinarily rare skill, especially in Mesopotamia, where reading was really hard because, let's say, standard Neo-Assyrian has 495 signs, each of which can have not only three or four different meanings or even as many as five, six, seven meanings, but three different types of meaning. So, it, it was a highly specialized profession in ancient Mesopotamia. There was a tremendous amount of tradition and lore and legal texts, ritual texts you had to master. So you're right, there could be lots of proliferations of bodies of Marduk. On the other hand, it wasn't just like any old guy could hang out a priest, hang out a sign and say, "Hey, I'm a priest of Marduk." Um, it, it was a specialized, uh, profession that was hard to, hard to break into. Probably for the most part, an inherited office. Um, I don't think that you could just decide you were going to be a priest of Marduk. C, certainly we know in Israel and in Egypt and probably in Ugarit, priesthood was was inherited. I'm not positive always about Mesopotamia, but anyway, the priesthood in Mesopotamia was a very specialized field, and these are very complicated texts. Um, the, the ritual took several days, and they didn't, and a god didn't always automatically eternally agree to be inside of a statue. There were indications they believed that the god had become angry and left the statue. For example, if the Gutians invaded and destroyed the temple and and brought your people off into slavery, that was probably a good sign that the god had left the statue. Um, very often they would use these texts not only for a brand new statue. Some of our best evidence is that they would use it is from cases where they use these texts to bring the god back into a statue that had been rescued from foreign invaders. Um, but from the fact that the statue had been captured, they realized that the god had become angry and had left.

Um, question over here. >> Another comment which was also true of natural events when developing a relationship with the, was the relationship with with the god. If there was a natural event such as a drought, god was angry. You could also deduce, right? You could deduce that the god obviously is angry at us because there's been an earthquake or because of a drought, and that may be an indicator that he's no longer living in our temple. >> And then therefore, you might want to perform this, this ritual, this liturgy again on that object. Yes. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Um, like, uh, King Ramataya and, um, seem to be very Sanskritic or, or poly words. Uh, uh, do you make a connection at all between the two? And, um, is there any special significance if it is true that one is a secular Sanskrit and the other is a more religious copy? >> I'm not sure. Um, Ashurbanipal is actually a Persian word. It's, it means Ashur-bāni-pal. Um, Ashur-bāni-pal. The god Ashur has has created, um, has created, I believe, a son. Although I'd want to double-check on *pal*. Um, but that, that's pure, that's pure Akkadian. That's, that's a, but I agree with you. I'm not a Sanskritist, but Ramataya has an Indian feeling to it. And there were Indo-Europeans in Mesopotamia. Um, and certainly immediately east of Mesopotamia in Persia, in Persian is related to Sanskrit. Um, so it, it is possible that, um, not that this is Sanskrit, but this may be an Indo-European name from a language somewhat closely related to Sanskrit. That's, that is definitely possible. Offhand, I don't know, but it sounds that way to me, too. Ashurbanipal, that's pure Akkadian.

>> Mhm. Uh, it strikes me that love, right, marriage is a way in which, uh, humans have a validity of self. There is, there's some degree to which you see that, yes, that maybe not fluidity, but but the suggestion is that levirate marriage is related to this complex of ideas because the point of a levirate marriage, that is, when a man dies a married man dies without having had a son, um, his widow should marry his brother, and the child of that union will be the child of the first husband, who has died, um, which implies something that there's something of this individual that endures. Um, I think in that case, it is more a symbolic and legal idea. It may also be, and this gets a little off track, it may also be though that it is the, actually, it's interesting to talk about this *davka* as it's gotten dark out and it's my father's yard site. Um, there is a sense that sons have the responsibility of caring for what lingers, what endures from their father. I think ancient Israelites, this would be a whole different topic, and if you want to have a weekend on this topic, the person to hire would be John Levenson, actually from Harvard. But Israelites actually did believe in life after death much more than we've all been taught. We've all been taught the Bible doesn't believe in life after death, but really, it actually, it does. It just doesn't want to talk about it a whole lot. But there is some sense that a part of us does endure after death, and it gets hungry and thirsty, and it's the responsibility of a son to care for, for the father. Um, which you can do in any of a number of ways. And I think the, um, one of which is pouring wine or oil or water into the grave, probably on the anniversary of the death. I think that our custom of the, the yard site actually derives from this ancient Israelite custom, which is actually an ancient Near Eastern custom all over the ancient Near East, not just in ancient Israel, although it plays itself out a little bit differently in Israel. Um, so if you die without a son, who's going to take care of you? That's why your wife should marry your brother, and then they'll have a son biologically who's really your, we know it's the brother's son, but that's pretty closely related. And legally, that will be your son. He will inherit your land. So your plot of land, um, doesn't go to your brothers, it'll go to your son, your, your son who's really your nephew. And that son will now have the responsibility of, um, of keeping your name alive, keeping your memory alive, keeping your, um, and keeping you hydrated and fed. Um, so I, I think that ultimately, it, it turns out that what you're suggesting is not a matter of fluidity, but is a slightly different sort of issue.

>> Mhm. I was wondering how, um, God is doing this as well, and how, consistently, it's grammar, language. You think of ancient Hebrew, you know, you get lost in what's singular, what's plural. By and large, with exceeding the word Elohim, it's always quite clear what's singular and what's plural. Um, and I think that it's also clear in these other languages, that's how we know that they're not exactly the same in those, in those Mesopotamian texts, especially in number three, Roman numeral 3. Um, grammatically, they are separate. >> And yet, >> I'm sorry. >> You really can count. >> Yes. Yeah. I mean, yeah, grammatical number is quite clear in, by and large, in, in these ancient languages. One noun or a verb here or there notwithstanding. Yeah. I, I think we can't count on that.

>> Um, >> What makes these objects like, we have objects today that, um, talk, objects that listen and see. >> Well, they, they didn't have any of those things. What makes it godlike is the fact that you perform a very specific magical ritual on it that brings the presence of the god into the object. >> What makes the god on phones? >> I'm sorry. >> We've done that magic on our phones. >> No, no, we haven't. >> This is magic. We don't do magic on phones. We have engineers. >> What I'm asking is, what, what quality was put into this object that made it different from cell? >> Um, what a cell phone isn't a god. They believed that these objects became gods. Um, >> The *pîta-pî* ceremony, the correct magical ceremony, which if carried out to the letter, you say the right words, you do the right actions, that will actually induce the god to enter the object. Now, the god remains a free agent. The god can leave the object if the god gets angry. But if you do this right, you can get the god to agree to come into the object. >> Did it protect you? Did it give you law? >> Did give you law, but it, it could protect you. It could listen to your prayers. It was more accessible to you than the god who's way up there, up in heaven.

>> Um, Mhm. >> Did households have, um, uh, gods that had been, um, you had had the ceremonies done? Or were these mostly in public places? And, and >> Great question. We know that there were household gods, who would usually be much lower-ranking gods, um, not these important gods like Marduk or something. But that's a great question. I don't know. Was the *pîta-pî* performed on a local, on your, on your little household god? Um, I don't know for sure. If you're really curious, you can email me. I know where I would look it up. I mean, there's two or three scholars who would really, especially a guy named, um, Vanderhooft at Leiden, whom I maybe just email him. He's the guy who would know. He wrote the book on the household gods in Mesopotamia. Um, I don't know. If I had to guess, my guess is that a household god, you, that if you've got your own household god, you probably would hire a priest to do a little *pîta-pî* ceremony on it. And the poorer you are, the less you'd be paying, the more you'd be getting a less impressive piece, uh, priest. If you're a person of considerable means, maybe you could pay for an actual Marduk priest from the Esagila temple to come to do this, from the Marduk temple, uh, to come do it for you. But I'm just guessing there. My guess is that they did some sort of ceremony for their household gods. Um, but we're less likely to have the texts describing that because the texts that we have are generally speaking from temple and/or royal libraries. Um, so that the, the main temple or the, or the royal temple, we've got records from those places. If you have, you know, some, you know, Joe Assyrian hired a priest to do a little *pîta-pî* ceremony, he's doing it from memory. There probably aren't texts that are written involved, and the, the proof of that would probably not have been preserved historically. My guess is though that they probably did do some sort of ceremony.

>> Mhm. >> Jacob. >> Yeah. So, the God here, which is more primitive than in the Bible, but still it has to have something, a purpose. And what I ask myself is the purpose that the God to explain what things happen in the world. That's a much, much broader question, which would get us into much bigger questions of why did ancient peoples have gods, why do we have God, why do humans have this whole thing called religion, which is not what I want [clears throat] to get into right now. I'll just say two things. One, many of the purposes were probably identical to the purposes in Israelite society. Probably not that different than the purposes even in our society. And two, I'm not sure I would agree with the statement that this is more primitive than Israelite conceptions of religion. I mean, from, from the point of view of the ancient Israelites, ancient Near Eastern peoples, they would probably look at it the opposite way. The Babylonians had an ancient tradition, had written texts that went back millennia. The Israelites were relatively new people. They did not have a major empire. They were not wealthy. They didn't have the sort of cultural patrimony that the Mesopotamians and the Egyptians had. My guess is that Mesopotamians and Egyptians would have looked at the Israelites as being primitive people from off in the sticks, and probably the Israelites would have agreed. Um, think about the, the opening chapters of Genesis describe how before Abraham was born, before the very, very first inklings of the Israelite nation's existence, there was already a whole set of genealogies of these other cultures in Mesopotamia and, and Egypt that were already ancient. I mean, it's funny. We Americans, you know, we tend to think, "Oh, ancient Israel, that's real ancient." But actually, it isn't. I mean, Egypt, there's Old Kingdom Egypt, Middle Kingdom, and New Kingdom. Israel is more or less coterminous, existed at the same time as the New Kingdom. By that time, the Old Kingdom was real ancient. By the time the Israelites were slaves in Egypt, the pyramids were already very, very, very old. Israelites didn't build pyramids. Pyramids were, were quite old by the time the Israelites were slaves there. So, um, in fact, Israel is really a new nation, an upstart nation, and the Bible portrays Israel that way. We don't get to Genesis 12 to the, to the birth of Abraham until the Bible takes time to tell us there were already flourishing cultured civilizations elsewhere before we arrived on the scene. Um. Mhm. >> Seems like in the tour that the, um >> Well, actually, let's hold on. What we're talking about now is the Mesopotamians. If we've got questions about the Mesopotamian material that I've just looked at, let's have those. But otherwise, I, I want to hold off on the biblical material. You have a question about the Mesopotamians. >> I was going to ask, is the, uh, statue speaking out of God's words? >> By and large, no. >> No. >> No. You speak to it. >> Yeah. >> You offer it sacrifices. It hears you. It smells the sacrifice. And maybe it probably doesn't see you because you, unless you're a king, you don't get that close. Although maybe to your household god, you can get close. It, it, it may or may not see you, but it, it receives, um, words, but it doesn't speak words. >> It has ears, but no mouth. >> It does have a mouth, but it doesn't typically speak. Um, prophecy where someone claims to be hearing words from the god or some communication that can be expressed verbally, um, is is rare among the Mesopotamians. It only crops up in two specific places at two very specific times over the several thousand years that Mesopotamian civilization flourished. So the gods don't, for the most part, speak. Um, with the exception in the 8th century and the 7th century, Ishtar, the Ishtar statue in Arbela does speak, but that's only for really a couple hundred years. Um, one more question, then I want to move on. Mhm. >> Every, there are lots of goddesses. >> Yes. >> What happened? Where did they get lost? >> Very great question. Um, which probably gets us off track, but it's such an interesting question. I'm going to answer it anyway. Um, Tikva Fomer-Kensky, um, who used to teach at the University of Chicago and before that at Reconstructionist College, uh, wrote a book on this subject called the, called the, what's the title of that book? The Eclipse of the Goddess. >> In the Wake of the Goddesses. Thank you. Um, In the Wake of the Goddesses, or In the Wake of the Goddesses. >> Goddesses. Um, in which she points out that, well, first let me give you the wrong answer, then the right answer. What a lot of people say starting in the 1970s is, "Oh, these evil male chauvinist Israelite monotheists showed up, and they got rid of all the goddesses, and what a terrible thing the Israelites did to us, these bad Israelite monotheists. They got rid of the goddesses." What Tikva Fomer-Kensky points out in her book, In the Wake of the Goddesses, is that the goddesses begin to be marginalized before the Israelites show up on the scene, before there's any monotheism, for some reasons, and we don't know exactly why, in the Middle Bronze Age and especially the Late Bronze Age. So this is just before the nation Israel appears on the scene. The goddesses are demoted. There are lots of areas in the Early Bronze Age up to the Middle Bronze Age that are the responsibilities of a goddess. Writing, for example, the god, the deity of writing is a goddess. Um, the deity of weaving, the deity of beer-making. Beer-making is a kind of magical thing because you take one substance and it bubbles and it becomes a whole different substance with a different flavor and different characteristics. Um, so beer-making or wine-making was considered a very, very important and mysterious and magical, divinely inspired technology. Um, these are all areas that are the responsibility of a goddess. There are other areas that are the responsibility of gods. And then in the late part of the Middle Bronze Age and in the, in the Late Bronze Age, um, gods take over all these areas. The goddess who once was the, the deity of this, of this area of culture, she becomes maybe the wife of the god who's in charge of it. She becomes maybe the daughter or the mother of the god who's in charge of it. But the important deities all end up being male in polytheistic Mesopotamia by the Late Bronze Age. Why this happens, we're not sure. Um, but the goddesses are marginalized. They're still there, but with the exception of Ishtar in Mesopotamia and to some degree Ninḫursag in Mesopotamia, they all become very unimportant. The same thing happens in Canaan. There's another scholar named Othmar Markel from the University of Freiburg, who points out that, um, and, and he was working independently of Fomer-Kensky. The two of them at the same time, working on with in different cultures, noticed the same phenomenon quite independently of each other. Um, he notices that in the Middle Bronze Age among the Canaanites, goddesses were important. They showed up a lot in artwork. There were statues of them that were made of metal, um, made of silver or gold or made of something else that was covered with silver and gold. And then in the Late Bronze Age, they become unimportant. No one's making statues of a goddess. Or if they do make statues, they make it out of clay. You're going to make a statue of a god? You make it out of metal or wood that you cover with, with gold and silver. But the polytheists in Canaan by the Late Bronze Age, they're not doing that anymore. They're just making, if they bother making a statue of a goddess, it's just out of clay. So, for some reason in polytheism, in the Late Bronze Age, the goddesses are marginalized. They don't completely disappear, but they become unimportant. At some point later, the Israelites come up with this idea of monotheism. Um, but those two events don't seem to have anything to do with each other. Um, why they're marginalized is a great mystery. Um, but that the fact that they're marginalized is a development within polytheism. It's not part of the, the movement from polytheism to monotheism. Okay, there's probably some other questions out there, but I want to move on to a quick look at some Canaanite evidence.

What we've seen in Mesopotamia is that deities have this fluidity. They have the ability to fragment and yet remain at the core essentially the same being. Um, there can be many bodies of a god in the simple sense that a god can have a statue that is literally the presence of the god in many different places at once, in addition to continuing to exist up in heaven as well. All the s these characteristics show up among North, among Canaanites and Arameans. So these are people living in what is today Syria, Lebanon, Israel. Um, these same characteristics show up. We won't go through all the evidence, but I want to point out some terminology that comes from the Canaanites or the, what we sometimes call the Northwest Semites, um, that will become relevant when we look at biblical passages. The Mesopotamians refer, for one thing, to what they call a *bet-el* or *bet-ilu*. *Bet-ilu* is actually the Greek term for it. Um, it's simply a, um, uh, a transliteration of the Canaanite term or the Aramaic term *beit-elaya*, which literally means "house, houses of the god," or *ba'al*, "the house of the god." Um, *betyloi* in Greek. There's a Greek, there's a Phoenician writer who writes in Greek called Philo of Byblos, who talks about how there are these statues where the god really is present inside of the statue. They're called *boulia*, or this is just his transliteration for *ba'al*, "the house of the god," and he refers to them as being *lithos empus*, which means literally, *lithos*, anyone know what *lithos* means? Like a lithograph? Stone. *Empus*? Like what does *empus* mean? >> Animated. >> Animated. Exactly. It has breath. Stones that breath entered, or stones that life entered. So these are stones that came alive. They prayed to stones that had come alive, um, because they became the home of the god. So I think that this is very much like the *salmu* for the Mesopotamians. This is a statue made of stone that they had gotten the god to enter. They also refer to these as being *matsebah*. *Matsebah* turns up in a number of different forms: *matva*, *matsev*, *mincev*, *nitsav*. Um, it, it simply refers to some sort of standing stone. These stones in ancient, um, Canaan among the Arameans, they were different from the *salmu* of the Babylonians and the Assyrians in that they were not statues. They didn't have the very detailed depiction of the face. They tended just to be, um, they tended just to be sort of pillars. Maybe this high, maybe this high. Some of you have probably seen some of them at the Israel Museum. I don't know if you can remember. They're often just sort of like shaped like this. Um, some of you, I'm sure some of you have seen these at the Israel Museum. In some cases, there might be a little bit of a mouth or an or an ear chiseled into it. So you get a little bit of a representation of a face, but only a couple of lines. I mean, it looks actually interesting, like 20th-century art. Um, which is actually why for the cover of my book, I chose a 20th-century sculpture that is abstract and yet looks a little like a person because this is very similar to a, um, this work of the 20th-century Israeli artist, um, Dov Fagan, is very, very similar to some of these, um, old *matsevot*. Um, in any event, some of you have probably seen them. These are simply pillars, but you could somehow get the presence of the god, the life of the god, the breath, the spirit of the god into these pillars. So I think this is the same idea that you find among the Mesopotamians, although it, it quite literally speaking, it looks different than it looked back in Mesopotamia. Now, the reason that it's important for us to note the terminology among the Canaanites is that the Israelites will end up using, we'll see in a few moments, very similar terminology. Here we can pause to remember that the, the Hebrew language is actually a dialect of, um, of Canaanite. The ancestors of the Israelites, we're told in the Bible, primarily come from Mesopotamia, but they end up speaking the local language, which is Canaanite. And some of the same terminology will show up in Canaanite literature. Now, what I'd like to suggest, um, is that in ancient Israel, this same idea of a fluid god, a god who could be fragmented, a god who might overlap with another god, very similar ideas or the same ideas showed up in ancient Israel as well. So let's.

Look at a few ancient Israelite texts that give us some sense of, um, of this, of this phenomenon. Actually, I should have mentioned one thing that I forgot. In addition to this, the pillars, which often represented, actually not rep, these pillars often housed a male deity. There were al- also sticks or trees that housed a female deity. And sometimes on Canaanite coins, you'll see pictures of them together, a matseva or a stone pillar along with a, um, some sort of tree or some sort of wooden stick. And the name for the wooden stick was probably Asher, because a goddess with the name Asher probably was thought to be present in that stick.

With this in mind, we're going to switch to some Hebrew literature, um, some Israelite literature, uh, and find these ideas of fluidity there. So, these ideas in ancient Israel, where are they, where do they show up in ancient Israel? We can, once we're sensit-, sensitized to the possibility that ideas of this sort, um, might show up. Once we've read the Mesopotamian literature that suggests the possibility, it suddenly becomes possible to hear some of these ideas in ancient Israel. So, let me give you one or two examples. First, from something that was discovered, um, in the 1970s in the Sinai desert, um, in a caravan station that was used by northern Israelite merchants taking merchandise on their way to Eilat or Etzion Geber, where there was a port. Um, in this location called Ajerud, there were discovered some Hebrew inscriptions that read as follows.

So, here I'm in Roman numeral 7. Roman numeral 7. Um, from one of these, um, texts, which is written on a piece of, um, pottery that was broken, known as a pithos, we read the following: "Hashem Shamron, Shamron, a bless you to Hashem of Samaria and to his Asher." From another one, we have the term, we have the words, "I have blessed you to Hashem of, of the South, or Taanach, and his Asher."

There's two things that are interesting here. First of all, the term "Hashem of Samaria," "Hashem of the South," or "Hashem of Taanach" recalls the terminology of Ishtar of Arbela, Ishtar of Nineveh, Mary of Guadalupe, Mary of, uh, Mary of Krakow, or whatever it was. Um, the, the idea that there's a geographically local form of the God Hashem may be similar or the same as what we find similar to or the same as what we find in Mesopotamia and Canaan, where you've got these local manifestations of a particular deity. Um, once we've seen it there, the truth is, it shows up in the Bible too. It's just that nobody noticed it. Um, David at one point is talking to his son Absalom, who had fled when they had a conflict and had been living, Absalom had been living up in an Aramean area in the Golan Heights. And he says to his father, "I need," he's now back in Jerusalem with his father David. And Absalom says to King David, "I need to go to Hebron to fulfill a vow because back when I was living in the Golan Heights, I made a vow to Hashem of Hebron, or Hashem in Hebron, that I would sacrifice to him if I made it successfully back and safely back to Jerusalem." And so David lets him go. Well, why couldn't he do, why couldn't he fulfill the vow in Jerusalem? He says, "I made a, a vow to Hashem in Hebron." Now, he's not, he doesn't mean that he was in Hebron. He was up in the Golan Heights when he, when he made the vow. I think it's that he was, he was making a vow to a local version of Hashem. Not just to Hashem generally, not just to Hashem who is in the heavens, but to the Hashem who is in Hebron. This may be an Israelite version of this same idea.

By the way, if you go to shul on Friday night, one of the things that you recite, if you get there early enough, uh, for Kabbalat Shabbat, is "Adonai, Adonai, Tzevaot." Actually, "Hashem who is in Zion is great." This may be another example of this localized manifestation of Hashem. So, it may be that the idea that there is a local fragmentation of small-scale manifestation of Hashem. Um, I'm, I'm using the word Hashem obviously for, for, for the Israelite God instead of pronouncing his personal name, which, which we don't pronounce out loud. Um, but the idea that there's a local Hashem in various different places. This would be just another example of this ancient Near Eastern idea that a god can have a local manifestation, a small-scale manifestation. This is probably what some of the texts call a mala or an avatar. Hashem, Hashem Tzevaot. These are probably local avatars of the universal heavenly God called Hashem. That's one reason that this is interesting that [clears throat] this text reminds us of the local version of Hashem.

Yes. >> Is this in this? I know it's a Hebrew in the both of them for, uh. >> Yeah. >> Separates the from >> No, I separate the Y from the hes so it's not to render this piece of paper sacred. >> If you actually go to Cairo to the museum because when they turned over the Sinai to the Egyptians, they also turned over the, uh, these fragments. >> Um, no, no, there's no dash. I put the dash in to just, just to make sure that this piece of paper can be, um, disposed of in the garbage. >> Punctuation. Punctuation. >> There's no punctuation. Punctuation hadn't yet been invented. >> Recycling. >> Um, or even better, recycling. In other words, if I hadn't put the dash there, you'd have to put it into period after each word. >> Oh, that is there. Yeah, that is there. The period is there. >> Yeah, there are word dividers to tell let you know where the word ends. But the dash I added in just to so as not to render this piece of paper sacred. Um, the other interesting thing about this is that what is this thing, Hashem's Asher? Now, Asher is a word that has several meanings. One meaning is it's simply the name of a goddess. One possibility is that this is Hashem's wife. And many scholars think that this is a reference to Hashem having a wife, which from the point of view of the Bible is a heretical idea. But that doesn't mean that lots of Israelites didn't, didn't believe it. Um, other scholars, however, point out that in Hebrew grammar, a personal name never takes a pronomial suffix, never takes the word "his," like the word "his" or "hers" or "its" in Hebrew. You can smush it right onto a word as a suffix, like, um, you know, "kosi" is a way of saying "my cup." Instead of "hakos sheli," I can say in slightly fancier Hebrew "kosi" or "koso," "his cup." That "o" sound or that "e" sound that is a, is a suffix that represents a pronoun. And that kind of pronomial suffix never goes onto a name in Hebrew or Canaanite generally. And therefore, these scholars point out that "Asherto" cannot mean "his wife whose name was Asher." It can't mean "his Asher" any more than you would say in Hebrew like, you know, um, you know, "his Sarah" or, or, you know, "his Rachel." You just don't say that in Hebrew. Therefore, these scholars, and I, I agree with them, propose that "Asherto" has to have its other meaning. The other meaning of the word "Asher" is a stick, a wooden stick or a pole that is sacred to a god or a goddess. Actually, Philo, whom I quoted on the previous page, that Greek, that Canaanite Phoenician writer who wrote a book in Greek, he actually refers to these, or in the singular, um, to sticks that were parallel to the baalim, to the, to the, to the pillars, and were sacred to a god, to a god or a goddess. So, I think that the word " Asherah" here, "to his Asher," refers not to his wife, to a goddess, but probably to a cultic object in his temple. In other words, in the temple in the city of Samaria, there probably was an Asher, that is, a stick or a tree. In Hashem's temple in Taanach, somewhere in the south, probably near Eilat, uh, which is where these people, this caravan station, were traveling to, there was probably a tree or a wooden pole that was sacred to Hashem. In fact, there are references elsewhere in the Bible to zealously monotheistic Israelites who apparently thought that it was okay to use an Asher in a temple to pray to God. The Bible usually condemns these things, but some passages in the Bible, uh, make it clear that there were monotheistic Israelites who did use these Asherah or Asher poles when praying to God. So, here we seem to have, I, I think the idea, well, there's some sort of stick that's sacred to Hashem. That doesn't mean that it was a body of Hashem in the same way that the Baal was in Mesopotamia or the matseva or Bethel was, but it's a possibility that we should think about.

Let's move on to another text, a biblical text in Genesis chapter 28. This will be on the handout, so we don't need to go to our, uh, to our Bibles for this. Jacob woke up, we read in Genesis 28, after seeing the ladder, you know, the famous story of the ladder. Um, uh, so Jacob woke up after seeing a vision of the ladder that reached from heaven down to earth. And then having awoke, awakened, awoken, having woke up, um, now that he was awake, he took the stone, and now here I'm, we're, we're quoting from Genesis 28. He took the stone that he had used as a pillow, that he had set beneath his head, and he set it up as a matseva. Now, this is important. This is the same word that the Canaanites used to talk about, um, an object into which the presence of the, the deity has entered. Then he poured oil on the matseva, and he called it a Bethel, and he called the place a Bethel. Now, that's very interesting because the Bethel, we're told explicitly in the work of Philo of Byblos, this is the stone that has been enlivened, the stone that has been animated, into which the god's breath or psyche, um, or, or spirit has entered. So, what's going on here, I think, is, is that Jacob, this Israelite, was setting up a matseva and making God come into it. It says that he poured oil on it. To pour oil on something, when do you do that in biblical religion? >> To, to anoint somebody. To anoint someone, a king or a high priest. So that, by the point is that when you pour oil on a man's head, you're changing that man's legal status. A minute ago, this kid named David was just a shepherd, the youngest child of a particular family north of Hebron, uh, in the, in the little town of Bethlehem. But then the prophet Samuel poured olive oil on his head, and now he wasn't just a shepherd kid. Now he was the king. No one knew it except for him and Samuel and God. But now his legal status and even, I dare say, his metaphysical status had changed. He was now the king. Aaron at one point was the older brother of, of Moses, the older brother and sidekick of this important Israelite. And then at one point, Moses pours oil on Aaron. And now Aaron is the high priest. Now Aaron is the only Israelite allowed to perform certain kinds of sacrifices which even Moses cannot perform. Um, in biblical religion, and not only in biblical religion, but in Canaanite religion, in, in book, in texts outside the Bible, to pour oil on something is to change its status. I believe that when Jacob pours oil on this, when he, on the stone, this is the Canaanite/Israelite equivalent of the Mesopotamian pit-pi or mis-pi ceremony, the Israelite equivalent of the ca, of, of the Mesopotamian mouth-opening ceremony that brings the presence of the God into the stone. A moment ago, this was just a stone that Jacob had rested his, his head on while he was sleeping. Now, God lives in this stone, and the stone, this matseva, this pillar, suddenly has become a Bethel, a house of the God. God lives inside here. Now, it's not just some stone. It's a matseva. It's a Bethel.

Some years later, God appears and talks to Moses, to, to Jacob in Roman numeral 9, Genesis chapter 31. And God identifies himself to Jacob with the following words. Fascinating passage. I'm not going to go into all the grammar of this. Um, some of you who know Hebrew, if you want to ask me later about the grammar, I'll talk about this. But in, in good biblical grammar, we can translate those words in two ways. One is, "I am the God in the Bethel, in the Bethel that you anointed into a stele there." In other words, he's saying, "I'm the God that you brought into that stone." And when you anointed that stone, you made that stone into the ritual cultic object that we call a matseva or a Bethel. I'm the God who's in that Bethel, and, uh, and we need to talk." That's one way of translating it. It could also be translated, "I am the God Bethel, whom you anointed there into the stele, into the matseva." In other words, in this translation, which is equally grammatically acceptable, God is saying, "I am a God. My name, one of my names is Bethel, and I'm the deity that you put into that statue."

If this second translation is true, um, then I think we're learning something very interesting, which is that when the God Hashem consents to become an avatar and to manifest himself inside of a matseva, there's a name for, for that. When God appears, when Hashem becomes an avatar, so that we've got God's presence there, but not all of God's presence, just a tiny little bit of it. Then we call him by the name Baal. And there's some evidence that Israelites, especially in the northern kingdom, use the term Baal as a name not of some pagan god that they were praying to, but as one of the names that could be applied to Hashem, specifically the name of Hashem when he appeared as an avatar in a particular matseva or stone pillar. And I think that that is what's going on. Jacob is pouring oil on this stone to make it into a Bethel so that Hashem, under the guise of the name Baal, appears there as an avatar or as a malach. Um, so these are some examples. Once we've read the Mesopotamian material, then the Canaanite material, uh, we begin to realize that maybe the same conception is showing up in the book of Genesis. Um, in one strand of the book of Genesis. And let me tell you that this is from the E strand in the book of Genesis. This is very important because when this conception shows up, it shows up in certain parts of the Bible, not others. It shows up especially in the J and the E strands of the, the books of the Torah, as well as a couple of other places.

Harold, is it >> Howard, Howard >> How do you explain or how do you translate 35:1 to be consistent? >> 35:1, uh, just one sec. Let me bring 35:1 up. Oopsie. Um, let me look it up somewhere else. This will be quicker. Genesis, Genesis 35:1. Yeah, this fits perfectly into this conception. This is also an E text, for one thing. Um, God said to Jacob, "Get up and go to to Bethel." Now, Bethel ends up actually having three meanings in Hebrew. I think it's a name. It, it's just a technical term for, for all the Canaanite languages, meaning this pillar, this kind of a pillar. It's also a name of Hashem when he appears in one of those pillars. But it also then becomes the name of the, one of the most important temple locations in the northern kingdom because the place where Jac-, where this happened ends up becoming one of the two or three most important temples of the northern kingdom. Really, one of the two most important temples of the northern kingdom because this is the place where Jacob caused God's presence to dwell. And so he's saying, "Go to the Bethel." But for the Israelites reading this hundreds of years later, that, that Bethel is located in the place called Bethel. And so you could translate this either as "go to, go to a Bethel, any old Bethel," and do make a, a, um, an altar there to perform sacrifices to the God who appeared to you when you were escaping back in chapter 28. Or you could say, "Go specifically to the place name, to the town that will eventually be known as Bethel because of the Bethel that you put there." And that's a pun in Hebrew. That doesn't work quite as well in English. Um, because I pronounced it Bethel when I meant the pillar, and Bethel when I meant the geographic location, but in Hebrew, it's the exact same word. Uh, so yes, this verse fits into a whole string of verses. We're not going to look at all of them throughout the book of Genesis that relate to this, this central event. >> Live there. >> And how does that >> And I'm not sure what "dwell there" means. Um, I mean, he's a nomad. He's not going to dwell there permanently, but spend some time there, perhaps. >> That town. The >> Yeah, I accept that it's that town. But if it's that now, how does it come back to the meaning of the, of God of the Bethel rather than the place called Bethel? I, I see what you're saying. I think that it's both, and that to the Israelite audience of this, this made perfect sense. If you think about it historically, it makes less sense to say it as the place name to Jacob. But remember that what we're reading here, the, this is a story that's been written for consumption by an Israelite audience for whom Bethel is the town that has the greatest of all the Bethels. And so that, for, from, to their ears, this makes very, very good sense. To the ear of the character, it's a little bit jarring because why is it being called a place name? Because it's not really a, a temple city yet. It's not going to be that for another, you know, thousand years or 500 years or something. Uh, 500 years, let's say, no more than that. Um, but, but to the audience, I think this made very, very good sense. >> Mhm. Um, right there, we're, we're being reminded that the name Bethel actually is later. But the narrator is pausing to to point out, actually, this name is later. So this is what they used to call Elos. Correct. Correct. Mhm. >> Why is Jacob derive the authority create? >> My sense is, and this is pure guesswork. There's two or three ways to answer that, but one is that maybe among, maybe in the, the Canaanite sphere, this ceremony was much less restricted. In Mesopotamia, which was a highly civilized, highly cultured, complex society, there was a specific group of people who had the right and also had the knowledge and the magical ability to perform that ceremony. But maybe among the Canaanites, who were not as highly stratified a culture and whose society was not as complex, maybe anybody has the, has the right to pour oil on a rock and do this. Also, it may just be the case that automatically, as the recipient of the blessing that went to Abraham and from Abraham to Isaac, and then just a few chapters, a few verses earlier, from Isaac to Jacob, maybe he is the equivalent of a high priest. Um, he is the high priest for the nation Israel, which at this point in time consists of him. Um, so it may just be that, yeah, he had the authority because who else would? He is all the nation Israel. And after all, what is his name? Israel. I mean, he is the nation Israel. >> Plus, yeah. Plus, he had just had this experience. God had opened his mind and had opened the heavens at this location. So, that he was, he was already touched by divinity and therefore maybe deputized to perform this, this, um, this ritual. >> Isn't that the birthright that he steals? >> Right. What did that mean? Yeah. Um, let's move on to another text. There's still a few hands, but we're running out of time and I need to move through a few more texts before we end. Uh, somebody had brought up before the story of Jacob wrestling with that mysterious being whose identity is somewhat mysterious, is somewhat, um, unclear. Regardless of what Genesis is thinking about the identity of that, um, of that being, we get another version of that story or a retelling of that story in the book of Hosea. In the book of Hosea, we read the following when it re-, in poetic form, it retells this story. So, this is Roman numeral 10 on the handout. "Babinav in the womb, Jacob cheated his brother." Nice little pun there. The word for cheated is related to the word. No offense. Um, "Oh no, S Elohim. And as a grown man, he wrestled with Elohim." The meaning of which may not be initially fully clear whether it's God with a capital G or gods, divine beings. "Vashar el val. He wrestled with a malach and endured." Now, here I think the meaning of Elohim remains ambiguous, but may be clarified a bit. Malach could mean an angel, and therefore Elohim could mean divine beings, gods with a small G. But it also might mean the avatar, the small-scale manifestation of God. That is another possibility. And that's going to become stronger as we go further into the poem. "An enlo he cried and pleaded with him. Beel yimsa. It was Beel who met him there." Um, Beel being the name of the God Hashem when he manifests himself in the stone pillar. Um, so now we've got the answer: who, what is Elohim? What does malach mean? Elohim here means God with a capital G. It means Hashem. But it's not all of Hashem. It's not all of God. It's the avatar. It's the small-scale manifestation that we call malach. And remember that there's a personal name for that small-scale manifestation. When Hashem manifests himself in a Bethel, in a matseva, we call him by his name Bethel. So, it was Beel who met him there. And the word order here is very important. Those of you who know a little biblical Hebrew, we could talk about the grammar and the syntax, but I don't want to spend time now. You can ask me later. Um, it, the correct translation of this is, "It was Bethel who met him there." It's putting the emphasis on the name, I think, is what this should read. "There he spoke with him. Vadoni eloh Adonai. Hashem the God of hosts. Hashem is his name." Here we're being told very explicitly by the prophet Hosea that the being with whom Jacob wrestled was God. That is to say, the small-scale manifestation or avatar whom we call the malach, who goes by the name Bethel, and who is a manifestation of, and therefore also goes by the name of Hashem. Hashem equals Baal equals Malach equals Elohim equals Hashem, is what we're being told here. Um, this is very classic ancient Near Eastern notions of this small-scale manifestation of a deity. Um, there are some other places in, in, um, Genesis, Exodus, Judges, where we get this idea. Um, but we're about out of time for this evening. So, I think we'll, we'll go as far as this, and tomorrow we'll take a look at just two of them, um, Exodus 3 and Genesis 18. And then I want to kind of sum up a little bit how these ideas show up in ancient Israel, where they show up, how they resemble the same ideas as they show up in Mesopotamia and Canaan. Also, though, how now that they're in a new context, the monotheistic context, they have to show up in a somewhat different form. Then we'll move on to some other biblical texts that completely reject this way of thinking. Uh, so that's what we'll do tomorrow morning. Um, and that, uh, I'll just take, if there's one or two, one more question, and then we'll, we'll, we'll finish. Yes. You spoke with great clarity, but get intellectually, theologically, I don't get how you lead from aka Avatar to Hashem, the creator of the universe. >> The way, the way we're making that leap is that Hosea, the prophet Hosea, tells us that Bethel is the one who found him, and Hashem is his name. >> It's not a leap. It just says so here in the book of Hosea 12, verses 4-6. What Hosea is telling us there is that Bethel was the being who met him there, and Hashem is his name. Hashem Tzevaot. Tzevaot in biblical Hebrew means, is another word for name. Um, you refer to him. You can call him Hashem. That's one of the things that you call him. So, I'm not making an interpretive leap. I'm simply reading what Hosea tells us, though you've got to read Hosea very, very closely. You've got to read this poetry quite closely to, um, to get this. But that, that's what the poem is saying. By the way, there's another place that we get that in Genesis chapter 49. Um, so we'll, I'll just mention that one, this one other verse, and then we'll end. In Genesis 49, Genesis, uh, uh, Jacob says the following. Um, actually, let me look this up. Oopsie. Uh, go, ill. I'm sorry. Genesis 48, verse 16. Um, so actually, if you want to take a quick look here, it is, um, Genesis 48 is on page 105 in the New JPS, and it is on page, it's on page 95 in the Jewish Study Bible. So, 105 in the Hebrew English, and 105, I'm sorry, 105 in Hebrew English, 95 in JSB. There's a poem here that uses parallel phrasing, which is always used in Hebrew poetry to, to talk about the same being. Um, the parallel phrases are: "Elohim, the God who was constantly with my fathers, Abraham, yeah, Abraham and Isaac, Abraham, and the God who was a shepherd to me, who protected me from my coming into existence until this very day, the Malach who redeemed me from all, from all manner of evil. May he bless these two lads." Um, so the is parallel language: God, Elohim, Elohim. Um, the Malach here is, is the same being as Elohim, as the poetic parallelism makes clear. And Rashi and other commentators say, "Who is this Malach?" This is the God who appeared to him in the dream at Bethel. So, already, um, medieval commentators made this connection. This Malach is the Bethel, is Bethel. Um, and although the word Bethel doesn't appear here, where the poetry explicitly equates God with the Malach, this is one of the banner examples that shows that Malach can mean avatar. Malach can be equal to God. Um, and so that's another of the passages that helps make this equation, um, quite clear. Um, okay, it's a nice verse for me to end with, uh, that mentions, uh, Abraham, which is the name of my father. Um, yeah, it's very nice ending with a reference to Father Abraham, which is my father's name, and also the name of my son as well. This is a passage that goes on to talk about his, uh, his sons, as it were. Further ado, at Rased, just one, just one. >> Just one, just one. We actually, we're going to, we still need to finish a little material from the last one, at the last session. So, let me just review where we were when we, when we broke up, uh, yesterday, uh, last night. Um, we, I tried to make the case, uh, I think a very strong case, based on Mesopotamian material, that there was in the ancient Near East this idea of divine fluidity, that a god could fragment into into different parts and yet retain a fundamental identity. That a god could have more than one body. Especially in the sense that a god could be literally physically present in several different statues all over the world, as well as remaining physically present up there in heaven. Um, and that gods could overlap with each other. Their selves could mingle, uh, the self of one god with another. Then we went to Mesopotamia, from Mesopotamia to Canaan, and we saw that there seems to be a, a similar idea in Canaan. And that in Canaan, that idea was especially associated, the idea especially of the god being present in several different statues was associated with the term matseva, meaning a stone pillar, and Bethel, meaning a house of the god. So that the pillar was maybe imagined not as the god's body so much, but rather as the, as a building, in a way in which the god was housed. And the god could be present in many different Batei Alei, or in many different matzevot, around the world. Then we went to, um, Israelite material, and we saw that the same term Baal and matseva is used among the Israelites. Um, and based on this, I suggested that the Israelites also had this idea. In the case of Israel, I think that this idea has become a monotheistic idea. So, you no longer have the idea of two gods overlapping with each other. That doesn't seem to be an option for the biblical authors who believe only in one God. But you do have the idea in ancient Israel that this God Hashem could become present in a matseva, and probably in many different matzevot all around the land of Israel. So, we get this same idea of multiple divine embodiment showing up in Israel. When God shows up that way, God can be referred to, especially with the name Baal, which becomes a name of God. And you can still use God's regular name, which is spelled with the letters Yud, Vav, and Hey. Now, this idea, um, we saw it in just a couple of texts. Let me just mention also that we have a lot of evidence that there were multiple matzevot in ancient Israel. For one thing, archaeologists have found multiple matzevot in ancient Israel. Some of you, I'm sure, have seen them in the Israel Museum, or if you've been to Katzrin, the little museum at Kibbutz Katzrin, they've got some of the matzevot that were found there on display. Um, we also have evidence from some stories that the matseva, the stone pillar, and also the Asher, the tree or the wooden pole, was regarded as acceptable by some Israelite, um, by some Israelites who were monotheistic. I'll just give you one example, um, or two examples. Moses in Exodus chapter 24 sets up 12 different matzevot at Mount Sinai during the covenant, the covenant ratification ceremony. Now, I'm sure that he was not setting up matzevot to 12 different gods. I think the idea was he's setting up these matzevot to all of them are holy to the same God, and he actually pours wine on these matzevot, very similar to what Jacob did in Ex-, in Genesis chapter 28 at Bethel, at Bethel. I think that by pouring the wine on, he's bringing God into these matzevot. It's the Israelite equivalent of the, of the pit-pi ceremony. Similarly, Um, there's a northern king named Jehu, a zealously monotheistic king who reforms the northern temples and gets rid of all the impertinences of Baal worship and Asher worship, or, or goddess worship, I should say, in the northern temples. But he does not remove the Asher from the nor-, northern temple. This zealous monotheist who was a worshipper only of Hashem, um, doesn't get rid of the Asher, and I think we can conclude from that that for him, the Asher was a perfectly acceptable monotheistic item. So, the idea of multiple embodiment in several different statues, or really, more pillars and and sticks, this seems to have been an idea at home among some Israelites. I also want to look at the idea of, let's say, the small-scale manifestation of God, um, in a little more detail. So, I just want us to look at two more texts before we move on to the next topic. So, take a look at Exodus chapter 3, the story of the burning bush. In the little JPS, or actually, you could have a big JPS, but in the Hebrew English JPS edition, this is going to be on page 116. In the Jewish Study Bible, if you have JSB, this is going to be on page 110. So, in, in JPS Hebrew English 116, in Jewish Study Bible, 110. Um, let's just take a look at this story, um, and thinking about it in light of what we've already seen, um, in the, uh, in the other stories that we've been looking at, in the other texts. Uh, we'll start at verse one of chapter 3. I'm going to read out loud in Hebrew, and if you could please follow along in whatever, uh, in whatever language you want to follow along in. "Elohim." So, he comes with his flock to something that's already apparently known as the mountain of God, also known as Mount Horeb. And this is also known elsewhere in the Bible as Har Sinai. Sinai and Horeb are the same place. Very interesting verse. Next. "Vayeraf Hashem." "The angel of Hashem," which I think in this case means the avatar, for reasons that we'll see in a moment. So, the avatar of Hashem, the small-scale manifestation, manifested itself or appeared to him, to Moses, in the form of a flame of fire from the midst of the, of the bush. Um, the "b" in the phrase "bil lab" here, it could mean that God appeared inside the flame. But "b" in biblical Hebrew can also mean "as in the form of," and in that case, this might be translated best as "the, the avatar appeared in the form of a flame from the midst of the bush." And it wasn't just a regular flame. It was something unusual and special because Moses saw, and look, the bush was burning in fire, or with fire, but the bush was not consumed. So, this fire, it's not a regular fire. It's a fire that's inside the bush, but it's not burning the bush. It's just there, but it's not, um, but the bush itself is not on fire. There's flames at the same place, but they're not doing, they're not together, you might say. Um, now, the fact that God appears here, um, in the form of a, of a little flame, some sort of little flame in a bush, is very interesting to me because this is Mount Sinai. This is the same place where, in Exodus 19, a few months later, the revelation, the lawgiving of the Torah will occur. And if you can remember from Shavuot, or any other time that you've looked at Exodus chapter 19, God comes down in Exodus 19 as the Kavod. And the Kavod there is this gigantic flaming thing. In fact, it has to be surrounded by that black cloud I've mentioned before because it's so fantastically bright, it would kill anybody, um, who got too close to it or who saw it. So, at this exact same spot, God, in God's full glory, will appear as a gigantic flame, as a gigantic fire. What's happening now is it's a little fire. It's not all of God's presence. It's just this small-scale presence in the form of a small flame, which is less frightening. Moses does get frightened, but it's not as frightening. It's more accessible. This is a, this is a user-friendly manifestation of God. This is a bite-size manifestation of God. And I think this is a very good example of what malach means when it has this sense of the word avatar instead of messenger. Um, it's the same thing as the Kavod. It's at the same place, but a lot smaller, um, a lot more approachable. So, we've got this, um, great case of the avatar. Moses says, "I want to go take a closer look at this." And then in verse four, God sees that Moses has taken a look, and God calls to him, to Moses, from the midst of the bush. Well, what's in the midst of the bush? The flame. The flame, which is the same thing as the malach, because we're told that the malach appeared as a flame. So, it's not now an angel or a messenger who's speaking to Moses from the midst of the bush. We're told that Elohim, that God himself, is talking to Moses from the midst of the bush. What's going on here, I think, is another demonstration that Malach is equal to God, but not all of God. Because it's Elohim. It's God who speaks to Moses from the midst of the bush. And we know that the malach is what's located in the midst of the bush. And here I think we can equate Malach equals Elohim. But from what happens months later at the same location in Exodus 19, we know that the malach, this flame, is not all of God. This is just one nice example, I think, of the avatar idea. By the way, the, the bush, I think, is significant precisely because one of the things that can become an avatar is the Asher, is that pole, is that pole, um, that, um, uh, that I've mentioned before, or sometimes it's a tree. I think what we've got here is an example of that. It's not a coincidence that it's a bush. God can become manifest in a stone pillar or in some sort of wooden living thing. And we've got other references, uh, in the Bible to, to trees that are sacred to God. Abraham plants a tamarisk tree. Um, there are cases of a tamarisk tree for Hashem in Beersheba. The Bethel that he, that he plants in Beersheba. We've got plenty of examples of an oak tree, an allon, or an allah, which is sacred to Hashem, or an allon, which is a pistachio, or, um, terabinth tree. So, the, this idea that a tree can be sacred to God, maybe even a manifestation of God, appears actually pretty often elsewhere. My guess is, we know what kind of bush this is. There are bushes, some of you may remember this from hiking. If you've ever gone hiking in Israel, there are some bushes that have little branches that have this pattern. There's a central, a central piece of wood, and then little cups going around it, little U-shapes, which of course ends up looking like what? >> A menorah. And in the Tabernacle, in the Mishkan, and then later in the Beit HaMikdash, in the Temple in Jerusalem, there are menorahs. I think that that menorah is, is really an echo of the Asher tree. The original predecessor of the menorah was an Asher tree that looked like a menorah. Eventually, we don't use the natural type, maybe because of its association with the Canaanite goddess Asherah. It's just too dangerous. So, we don't, we eventually it gets outlawed. But what we put in the Temple in its place is a menorah, which I think is actually a symbolic representation of the original Asherah tree. Um, uh, so the idea that inside this bush we've got a flame, this leads ultimately to the, to the menorah, I think, is where this, this imagery is going to, is heading in Israelite history.

Let's take a look at one more passage, which will be Genesis 18. The story of Abraham and the visitors. So, Genesis 18 in the Hebrew English JPS is going to be on page 30. Genesis 18 in JPS is on page 30. And in the Jewish Study Bible, it's going to be on page 39. Page 39 of the Jewish Study Bible. So, page 30 in JPS, uh, page 39 in the Jewish Study Bible. Why is my computer not working? Ah, there we go. Genesis 18. Um, very odd. Ah, there we go. Okay. So, let's just read, read through here. Again, I'm going to read in Hebrew, and you should follow along however you want to. "Vayeraf Hashem lo leAbraham." "Hashem appeared to him, to Abraham, or manifested himself to Abraham, or became present to Abraham at the pistachio trees at, um, of Mamre." Um, and he, Abraham was sitting at the entrance to his tent, uh, at the hottest time of the day. Uh, he lifts up his eyes and he sees there were four, three men standing over him. That word "anashim" should sound familiar. What does it sound like? Matseva. Uh, it's from the same shoresh, the same verbal root as matseva. So, he sees these men, and he runs over to them and bows down to them, and he says to them, "Oh, my lords." And this word "my lords" here, you'll notice in the translation is not in capital letters. Um, the Hebrew term being used here is not a word that necessarily means God. It's just a respectful term that you would use for other human beings. Um, "Oh, my lords, if I've, um, if I've found favor with you, please stop, stop here. Let me, let me be your host." Mo-, Abraham thinks that these three men are regular human beings. He has no idea that these, that these are not regular human beings. They're just "anashim" to him. Uh, so he describes how he'd like to host them. He, um, he prepares a meal for them. He's, um, really quite, um, quite active in making sure that they'll have some good food to eat, um, that they'll have something to drink. And they say to him in verse nine, "Where is Sarah, your wife?" And he says, "She's inside the tent." Um, and he said, and then one of them, now the, the verb switches to plural, to singular, one of [clears throat] them says, "I will certainly return to you. Um, I'm certainly going to return to you next year, and your wife is going to have a son." There will be a son for your, for your wife." Now, Sarah heard this inside of the tent, um, which was behind the, the man who was speaking. They were very old. It was highly unlikely that they would have children. She was 90. Um, and so she laughed. She laughed inside of herself. She laughed to herself, apparently not out loud, um, saying, "Is this likely at all? Of course not." And Hashem says to Abraham, "Why did she laugh?" Um, now, what's interesting here is, well, how does he know that she laughed? She laughed to herself, "b'kirbah," inside of herself. Um, but this isn't just a normal human being speaking. In fact, for the first time, the narrator has identified who is really speaking, who is standing in front of Abraham. It is in verse 13. It is the Lord. It's Hashem. It's, it's YHVH, is what appears in the Hebrew there. Um, and as this text continues, we won't go through the whole chapter, it slowly begins to dawn on Abraham that he is not talking to three normal human guests. He slowly realizes that Hashem has come to visit him. It's a fascinating passage for our purposes in several different ways. One, here's an example of where God has a body, or maybe God has three bodies. It's not clear whether one of these men is Hashem along with two sidekicks, or maybe all three of them are actually Hashem. So, this may be a rather banner example of multiple embodiment. Second, we're getting a very different idea of God's body from what we've seen before. Before, God's body was made of fire. It was scary. It was frightening. It was indeed even deadly. But this divine body just looked like a regular human body. Abraham didn't know he was talking to God. It's only as the conversation goes forward that Abraham slowly begins to realize my guests are not just regular guests. Um, so we're learning here that God's body can look like a regular human body. Um, maybe it can be even present in three. God can be present in three bodies simultaneously. So, I would say this is another banner example of the idea of divine fragmentation, of the avatar, of multiple embodiment. It may even be an example, maybe of God overlapping with other beings. Um, maybe these other two, two men are angels in the regular sense of the word, angels, heavenly messengers. But maybe God initially was overlapping with them a bit, and then God concentrated himself in just one of the men, uh, and the other two returned to their original, um, state as being just regular heavenly messengers who happen to look like regular human beings. It's a very ambiguous passage, uh, a very mysterious passage that I think gives us a sense of how this notion of the, the avatar, the small-scale manifestation can play itself out in ancient Israel. Um, let me just finish by mentioning a few other things about the, um, the idea of the avatar as it appears in, in the Tanakh. Um, we've only looked at a few examples of this avatar, um, this avatar notion. But if we went and looked at a whole bunch of examples, a few patterns would emerge. Um, in particular, I think it's interesting. Most of these texts, not all of them, but most of these texts are from the north. Most of these are northern texts. The text about the golden, I'm sorry, the text about the burning bush, the text that we looked at yesterday about Jacob and the Malach and the Matseva that Jacob had contact with, those are from the E document of the Pentateuch, the E document of the Torah, which scholars believe comes from the northern kingdom, not from the southern kingdom. Uh, the, the, um, archaeological finds in the Sinai desert from Kuntillet Ajrud, which is at the beginning of, uh, the, the Israelite section of the handout, that is text number, text number seven, Roman numeral 7. That caravan station was used especially by northern, uh, traders, not southern traders, again, Israelites, not Judeans. The book of Hosea was a nice example, uh, that we saw yesterday. Uh, Hosea is one of our only northern prophetic books. Almost all the other prophetic books are from the south, from Judah. Um, other, um, Bethel is closely associated with this.

idea. We saw yesterday in those Jacob texts. Well, the city of Bethl was in the north, and in fact, it was one of the two main temples of the northern kingdom. Some other places even, that place from Genesis 48 that we were looking for, looking at, probably is an EEX, uh, which is also from the north. Um, so this idea seems to especially have been present in the northern kingdom. And it's interesting that it shows up in specific places and not other places in the Torah. It always shows up in the J text and the E text, especially the E text. It never shows up in P and D. It shows up in certain other texts that tend, with a few exceptions, to have a connection to the northern kingdom. So this was one theology in ancient Israel, but not a theology that everybody agreed upon. Not a theology that was located everywhere. I want to move on to an alternate theology, a much more widespread theology in ancient Israel, but we're kind of ending unit two right now. So let me just pause and get some questions on the idea of the avatar, the multiple embodiment, um, in ancient Israel. Uh, yes, Barbara.

>> When God's ruler, whatever that means, >> Mhm. >> enters a person who then might prophesy or then might become very strong and kill all the things. Is that the uritative, or is that a small part of God that overlapping?

>> Wonderful, wonderful question. Um, I'm not sure, but I'm going to guess. I suspect that originally, that was, that phrase was taken, uh, quite literally and quite seriously to mean that God was temporarily overlapping with a human being, and that's what gave the human being the special power, whether it was the power of prophecy, or in the case, let's say, of Samson or Gideon, uh, the power of being an extraordinary hero, uh, an extraordinarily strong and destructive. Um, I think what we're going to, well, what we're going to see in a few minutes is that many Israelite authors reject this notion, but they still use that phrase. I think that, as often happens with a phrase, the phrase continued to be used, but no longer in the, the exact same way. Now, the ruach coming on a person means that God touched that person, that God was in direct contact with that person, but no longer that a piece of God, God's actual breath, was mingling with that person's, uh, with that human being's self, um, in the same way that, let's say, um, when a cell phone notifies you that somebody's calling you, how do we say that in English? Your cell phone is >> is ringing. We usually say, "My phone is ringing." Now, of course, cell phones don't usually ring unless you happen to download the old-fashioned ringtone, uh, for your cell phone. But, you know, back in the second millennium, a long time ago, um, phones actually had little bells inside of them and they rang. Many of you are actually old enough to remember this. Uh, your grandchildren have no idea why we, But your grandchildren have no idea why we say a cell phone rings when it doesn't ring. It plays the guitar lead from from Stairway to Heaven, um, or whatever it is that you happen to have downloaded. But we still say that the phone rings. Now that we're in the third millennium and we've left that second millennium technology of phones that ring and smoke signals, we've left that behind. But we still in the third millennium say the phone rings. Once an institution or an event or an artifact has a name, the name often sticks, even when thing, the thing fundamentally changes. So I think that other biblical authors use the phrase of the ruach, God's wind or spirit, coming on a prophet, but they no longer mean it the way it originally was used. Um, other questions?

Mhm. Is there any significance to the fact Abraham saw three figures? >> And he called them my lords and then he addressed them and said, "Our glorious sing." So does that mean that the trio is a manifestation of the one God?

>> I think that it may. There's two different issues here. One is what verbs the narrator uses, because the narrator knows what's going on the whole time, and what verbs Abraham uses. Um, I think that the narrator moves a little bit back and forth between singular and plural precisely because, yes, it may be that all three of them were Hashem, and the narrator is signaling that this plurality was actually in its essence a unity. But in Abraham's case, I'm ne, I'm less sure. Um, because initially he doesn't know what's going on. He just sees three human beings. And it's only as time goes on that he begins to address himself particularly to one of them, having come to understand that that one is actually God. Uh, so, yeah, I think that the movement, I didn't want to go through in too much detail, but if you look at the verbs as they move between singular and plural, I think that there's something that we can learn from that.

>> Other questions? Yes.

>> Yes. >> Uh, you talked about the afterb last show when someone was here on the morning about 10 minutes.

>> It's the same word. [clears throat] I don't think that every single time that we get the word it has its full-fledged technical sense. Sometimes the word standing just means standing. Um, and, you know, sometimes a stone pillar is just a stone pillar. But, um, but here I think it may be evocative. It may be a little hint by this narrator. Start thinking of this set of ideas. Um, start thinking about the idea that is associated with mata, because it's going to turn out to be relevant in the case of nitsim as we, in in the book of Deuteronomy, as we read further in that in those verses. That's not being played with. That sense of the word is not, is not being played with here. I think it is. So sometimes a narrator, a poet, whatever, a writer might use a loaded term, and we're not sure if the, the loaded term really is loaded this time or not. It's as we go further in that we find out that, oh yeah, it really is loaded. So I think here that that term is serving to remind us of this whole set of ideas of fluidity. It's one of several reminders that's that that we should start reading this, this chapter, chapter 18, in light of that set of ideas.

>> Mhm. >> I, I get the feelings in 1816.

>> Mhm. >> That this must have been some low-level deputy that God said, because he makes these grand promises to Abraham, and then he produces such a nebish and Isaac. [laughter]

>> Um, >> You think that God can produce nebishes? God producing this ne, I'm sorry.

>> Like Jake. >> One more time.

>> I, I would imagine he would produce someone robust like Jake, one that has children, you know, and he comes up with this guy who can't even find his own father. The fact is, I, I see, so, so the question is, is this really a small-scale manifestation of God, or is this a messenger? And the suggestion is that this is a messenger because the result of this grand appearance is Isaac, who is, you know, I think we can agree, is not the most impressive, intellectually amazing Jew produced in the pre-Einstein era. Um, you know, it, it produces a nebish, uh, is what you said.

>> This assumes a later theology that God is perfect.

>> Um, it might assume so. So this may assume a wrongly assume, assume the, the later theology that God is perfect. Um, I would also point out that God often does things that are quite surprising. I mean, the phrasing you used, I think, was telling. You said, "I wouldn't have expected a nebish to be produced from this event." But God often does things that are quite surprising and seem initially to be disappointing. Um, God works in the long term, not the short term. And so the child that was produced of this union, uh, in the short term, doesn't seem to be such a great fulfillment of the promise. Um, but in the long term, it does work out. Not in Abraham's lifetime. Abraham never sees it. And that's generally the case with God. That when God makes a promise, it'll come true, but you're not going to, you're not necessarily going to live to see it. So, I, I hear what you're saying, but I don't quite think that that's an indication that we don't have Hashem here. In fact, Hashem, and especially Hashem in the J text, and this is a J text, Hashem does work in peculiar, um, peculiar ways, and often ways that that seem to be ironic. The, the God of Jay, Hashem, as Jay portrays God, is often a God who loves irony. And I think that this is a very typical example of the irony of Jay's God, that this is fulfilled in what initially seems to be such an, that the promise given in this chapter is fulfilled in what initially seems to be such an unpromising way, that actually fits Jay's God quite well.

Mhm. One more question, then I want to move on to to today's unit.

Mhm. >> I'm, I'm a very big defender of Isaac. I think starting with the rabbis, who's been given a bad rap, but I won't go there now. I have a, uh, a question that I've had for a long time, which I may begin to understand now in the light of your lecture, and that is in the rebellion of Kora, as that far from dead as they wind down, and there, and the tribal leaders are still competing for the priesthood, Moses has them place their rods >> At the ark. >> Yeah. >> And only Aaron's rod blooms. My question is, >> are these rods some kind of ash? Is there any connection to that?

>> I think there's a connection. I'm not sure that they're, that they really are asher. That the idea is that God is present ultimately in one of the rods, in the one that blooms. Um, I'm not sure that that's the case, but I think that the, there's an echo of the idea of the asher in that there's some magic, something miraculous in these, in, in one of the rods. So, I think that this would fit that general picture that a, and remember the rods are placed right outside the Mishkan, that a, a pole or a wooden, a wooden pole or tree next to or in a temple, um, is is sacred and can manifest Hashem. This is an echo of the idea, but I don't think, I don't think that the text is explicit that we're getting the full-fledged idea. Um, okay, I want to move on now. Um, having rather briefly, I mean, in my book, I spent a lot more time on this, but having rather briefly suggested that some Israelites who were monotheistic believed that the one God could become manifest in more than one object, in more than one manifestation, um, I want to move on now to some other texts that talk about, um, that talk about divine manifestation in the world. So here I want to move on to the other two texts that we find in the Torah, which are the P text, the priestly text, and the D text, the, the book of Deuteronomy. Um, of the four main texts that are combined to form the the Torah, one of them is called D, and that simply means the book of Deuteronomy. Um, and it's really off on its own. It's not combined with w, with, with the other texts. The other three, P, E, and J, are put together to form the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers, and then the last couple of chapters of Deuteronomy. Um, and so I want to talk now about the P text that appears in Genesis through Numbers, and the D text, which we have in the bulk of the book of Deuteronomy. Because when we read through P by itself, we never find the idea that I've just been talking about. We never find the idea of multiplicity, of fluidity, of the avatar. Furthermore, when you read the law code in P, the laws in P several times say to you, you are not allowed to have a mata. You are not allowed to have an asher. When you get into Canaan, you'll find that the Canaanites, they've got mate and ashro, and you should destroy them. Uh, so P never mentions this set of ideas, and P outlaws the matva and outlaws the asher. Um, furthermore, P does talk about God's body, which P calls the cavode, but P never describes the cavode as being present in more than one place. So, I'd like to pause for a little while and talk about the cavode as P uses the term, um, and some related terms that that show up in in the priestly literature. Um, the one of the priests who des, who describes the cavode, we've already looked at that, was the book of Ezekiel, verse chapters 1 through 3, again chapter 10, again chapter 40, uh, 44, um, and P, you will reme, you will remember, describes the cavode. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. We've already looked at that. 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The idea that God causes God's name, some sort of verbal representation, some sort of word to dwell in the temple in Jerusalem. In fact, the phrase that Deuteronomy repeatedly uses for the temple in Jerusalem is it is the place that God will choose to cause his name to dwell there. What dwells in Jerusalem is only God's name. It's just a word. It's just a symbol. But God is always up in heaven. God is always up in heaven. Um, God never comes to dwell here. Um, it's worth taking a look at two verses. I'll just quote them for you, um, instead of us flipping back and forth, uh, that give us a sense of how Deuteronomy thinks of God's presence.

In Psalm 76, Psalm actually, what the heck? Let's take a look at it. Um, so you have it in front of you. It probably is easier. Um, so this will be in the new JPS on page 1,55. Psalm 76. In J in JPS Hebrew, it's 1505. In the Jewish Study Bible, Psalm 76 is going to be on page 1,365, 1365. So, in the Hebrew English, page 1,56. In the uh Jewish Study Bible, page 1,365. Um, here we read the following uh the following verses. Um, I I'll look at verses 2 and 3. Shimo. Um, God makes himself known in Judah. His name is great in Israel. He dwells in Salem. His his tent. Salem being a poetic name for Jerusalem. His tent being a poetic way of referring to the temple. His um, his habitation is in Zion. vition. His habitation is in Zion. So clearly God is down here. God's name is down here and God is down here.

Compare that to something that we just read the other day from the book of Deuteronomy 26. So take a look now at Deuteronomy 26 verse 15 in the New Js, the JPS Hebrew English. Uh, this will be on page 4 and 429. Um, yeah. How far? Actually, 4 430 will be the verses that we're looking for. Um, uh, so it's chapter 26. We'll be looking at verse 15. In JPS, in the Hebrew English, it's page 430. In the Jewish Study Bible, it's going to be on page 425. 425. Um, here we read um Deuteronomy 26:15 um, an Israelite praying says um, look down or um, uh, you look down from your habit your holy habitation from the heavens. So where is God's maon? Um, it it's in heaven. Same word that in modern Hebrew means dormatory actually. Um, where is God's dormatory? It's up there in heaven. Look down from the heaven and bless the land down here that you gave to the nation Israel. Whereas the same terminology in the psalm is is actually Jerusalem. Jerusalem is God's ona is God's dormatory. It's a nice verse that gives you this this sense of the different theologies. Whereas for the book of Psalms, like for the priestly documents of the Pentatuk, God comes to dwell in Jerusalem. For Deuteronomy, no, God is transcendent. God is up there in heaven. God never comes here on earth. Not in one body like he does for the pre-document, not in many bodies like he does in J and E. God just stays up there. So in in the book of Deuteronomy, God is up there because God only has one body and that body always stays in heaven. Now God's power of course is unlimited. God knows everything. God can see anything anywhere in the world. God can do anything, anything in the world, anywhere in the universe. But God's actual bodily location is up there, not down here. So like the priestly document, the book of Deuteronomy totally rejects the idea of the avatar, the idea of multiple God, divine embodiment, the idea of fluidity, but in a different way. Um, whereas P says God has one body that does come to live on the planet earth, Duteronomy says God's one body is just up there. Which means on a practical level, by the way, D is, I think, beginning to move a little bit towards the later Jewish idea that you find in Jewish philosophy in Saja and most of all in my God doesn't have a body at all. D never says that. D never says God doesn't have a body. But on a practical level, God's body never comes into our world. So on a practical level, it's as if though God never has a body. From the point of view of our world, there is no divine body because it's never down here. It's just in that other realm way up there. It's this is not yet mymonities, but I think this is the beginning of a path that logically can lead to mymonities.

Um, Howard, >> I know a little more. Shame being a word. I mean shame can be interpreted I think is more than that. I'm wondering >> yes um, you're correct that shame in in Hebrew can be more than just a word because for ancient neareastern peoples including the the Israelites a name I mentioned this yesterday a name can be the very essence of a thing. So God says at one point about a mal in Exodus 23 and then again in Exodus 34 that the mal which is the avatar is the avatar because I have placed my name in it. So the name can be the very essence of a thing and it's the fact that God's name Adonai is in the mal that actually makes the mala into an avatar and not just a messenger. So you're right that shame can be a lot more than that. Deuteronomy consistently doesn't use the word shame that way. Deuteronomy always makes a distinction between God's shame which can be down here and God who is up there. Um, a passage that is also written by the same school of thought by the Deuteronomists in um first Kings chapter 8 contrasts about 13 or 14 times between God's shame which is down here and the real God which is up there. And I think and the holiness is located up there not down here. And I think that from the contrast that Deuteronomy and Deuteronomistic literature elsewhere in the Tanakh creates between God and God's shame, it becomes very very clear that the shame at least it was clear to me that the shame is not God. It's only a symbol. The thing about let's say the the Babylonian Salmu or the Matva for the Israelites and the Canaanites is that it's not a symbol. A symbol means something that is not something but that represents something. Um, so for example uh, you know, in the picture of George Washington on the dollar bill that picture represents George Washington. What does represent mean? It means that George Washington is not actually present. Rather he is represented there. He he's made as if though he's present there symbolically. Um, so a a statue or a picture is a representation. The mata, the asher ra the talmu, they're not representations. The whole point of them is that they're a presentation. God really is present there. Not symbol, not just symbolically. For Deuteronomy, the word shame, the word name has begun to function the way it does in our way of thinking. It's merely a symbol. It's merely a representation of God. And I there are several passages in which Deuteronomy makes a contrast between God's real presence which is in heaven and the shame which is on earth that to me make it clear that the shame isn't actually God's presence. Also the fact that Deuteronomy so strongly rejects the whole idea that God could really be present on earth. You should destroy the you should destroy the mat and the ashro also points to that side of Deuteronomy that Deuteronomy just doesn't believe in this whole multiplicity idea.

Let me follow up on this and then get some questions over here. >> Um >> Mhm. >> that declared the Lord show to the cloud. >> Yes. There. I think there is some indication >> very clear that possibly there is not that. >> You're right. Except for the word same author. The opening verses of Solomon's speech, Bible scholars have long uh have long agreed, are not by the same author as the rest of the speech. There's a contrast between the first few words which are poetic and then the rest of the speech which are very clear not just pros but deuteronomic pros. The pros of the book of Deuteronomy has its own characteristics that is that are different from pros in Genesis or Exodus or Judges or something. Um, so you first get a statement of priestly theology. God has decided to dwell here. And then appended to that is a later speech which is by a Deuteronomic author which very strongly rejects the point of view of those opening verses. So you've got two different documents that have been combined here in First Kings chapter 8. Actually Jerry >> yeah I had a question about other names of God that are used like I mean how how does that fit? Well, the Bible never uses the word shakina. That actually that that noun in fact that noun form doesn't exist in biblical Hebrew. The Bible does use more than one name. Um, but I I mean that is the first shows up for the first time in rabbitic Hebrew. The verb shahan shows up in the Bible, but the noun form um doesn't appear until rabbitic Hebrew. Um, and I I'll I'll we could get into a whole discussion of, but I think I want to avoid that for right now. Um, Mhm. >> the key and God living in the capital. >> Correct. >> Shortly thereafter, God, as we read yesterday, says, "Uh, I'm leaving. You guys are on your own because you're still as the moves north." Okay. So, there's Israel >> in You mean in Exodus 33? Yeah. >> Well, no, no. Exodus 33, first of all, is before the story of the of the tabernacle. The tabernacle is built after Exodus 33 in the tabernacle was built in Exodus 35-4. And moreover, that story is a J is a J story. >> That's where >> Yeah, that story that we looked at because yesterday was J day and we actually ran over a little. So, we talked a little J today as well. Um, but P has a whole different memory of these these events. Um, the J well, the E tent of meeting is very different from the P tent of meeting. It's got a totally different theology. It looks different. These are radically different memories I think of the same reality. But by the time these texts were written down, the reality was hundreds of years old. And there were very different memories of it. What's interesting is that the Torah gives us both. Torah never tells us what really happened. We've got to learn something from both of these two stories. And that's where the Torah leaves it.

>> Mhm. Well, let's just go counterclockwise. We started with Jerry, so you're next. >> Um, I'm really intrigued with your concept of the avatar, which I haven't uh encountered before. And um I'd like to reconcile that will meet uh God in the bush as Avatar and God in a much more expanded way because I think that is what is going on. God can't appear in anything in his full glory, which he still can't, but uh even after because the world would be destroyed. But he's confined to these appearances such as in the bush because he can't send his full lord because he doesn't have a place that is struck tolerating him. So you've got the avatar in the bush leading up to the creation of the Vishkan as you pointed out with extreme specificity and how it's just got to be and not out of the V group oversteps some boundary which killed killed them. So >> I I hear what you're saying >> then you can have a greater presence of God in the world in this Vishn. Right now you're trying to put these two ideas together and I think that J and E would agree with you. Yes, the the cavode is is just another avatar. It's a bigger avatar, but it's still not utterly destructive. I mean, it's pretty destructive as Nadavan Abi will find out, but it's not utterly destructive because it's just an avatar. I don't think P would agree with what you've done, though. I think the P author would say, "No, no, no. There's no such thing as the avatar." The cavode, as P imagines it, the cavode isn't just another avatar or a bigger avatar. The cavode is God. The cavode equals God. Um, the cavode is God's body is God's very self which there is only one. And it does not have the tendency to fragment and the ability to be multiply present that J and E think. There's one cavode. It's incredibly destructive, but God knows how to have a certain structure built that will protect the world. Now, Davi will get a little bit too close, but um, but God knows how to do it safely. After all, God created this world to begin with. So, God knows how to build a magical container that that will contain him without will contain God without destroying the world. But for for P, there's only one cavode. I mean, that's the title of of this lecture, right? Just one. Just one. Um, one other quick quick comment then I I then I need to kind of sum up and everything. Uh, Mhm. >> understanding saying that the idea of the imminent God turns up when P is in J and E. >> Yes. In a very different way. >> Only in Deuteronomy Deuteronomic version is the transcendent God. >> Yeah. All right. Say it a little bit differently. In PJ and E, God is both transcendent and imminent. In P, in J and E, God is transcendent sometime, but God allows part of God to become imminent, and those are the avatars. In P, God is fundamentally and essentially a a a transcendent God who deeply desires to be imminent and manages to pull it off for about a thousand years before we Jews mess it up. Um, and there's some implication that at the end of days, things will go back to the to the good old ways and and God will be in our midst again. Indeed, God is really just transcendent. God knows about the world, is concerned about the world, helps people in the world, punishes people in the world. But at a basic literal level, God is actually is always transcendent. Want to just end with um >> I want to ask follow why speculation why only one of them is purely transcendent the others are >> I think that in almost >> margin and eminence >> in almost any religious system you see an interplay of transcendence and imminence and some schools of thought put more focus on one some more focus on the other some create interesting ways of combining um >> I'm wondering why D goes in that particular direction. I could only speculate and given that we're already 14 minutes over, I won't. Um, so let me um I think we should stop here. I'm going to sum up a little bit about the anti-avatar points of view that we get in P and D when we begin our next session. Uh, and then I want to move on to um I want to move on to what this comes to mean for postbiblical Judaism, including for our own Judaism. So, Daraba, it's been a real pleasure to be here. Um, let's let's uh let's finish up. We've got a little time left and I'd like to talk I'd like to sum up some of the material that we were going over in the last session and then move on to more of the question of what this means for Judaism outside the biblical period. Let me say a few more things though on what we began to see in our third session. What we saw in our third session, well, what we saw in our second session is that there is a particular kind of theology that existed not only in the ancient near east but also in ancient Israel. Uh, a theology that I call the theology of fluidity. Uh, we could also maybe call it this theology of avatar. What we saw in our third session is that many biblical texts completely reject that theology and that rejection we should realize is an internal Israelite struggle is an internal Israelite discussion or argument. It's not simply that the priestly texts and the Deuteronomic texts are rejecting some foreign theology. They're reflecting a theology, a theology that monotheistic Israelites whose writings are preserved in the Hebrew Bible believed in. Now, a few more uh points about that that rejection on the part of the um of Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy, I'm sorry, on the part of Deuteronomy and the priestly texts. It's important for us to realize that Deuteronomy and the priestly texts are the those are the schools of thought that really in the end produce the Bible that we have. The Bible that we have is an anthology. It's an anthology with many different points of view with various schools of thought represented. But at the end the the editors who put together most of the biblical books not all of them but most of them were either kohanim from Jerusalem that is to say the priestly source the the priests or deuteronomic scribes. So the Torah for example um in the end the Torah is edited by the kohanim in Jerusalem. The historical books Joshua Judges, Samuel, Kings are edited by Deuteronomic scribes in Jerusalem and probably also in the exile in Babylonia. And in when we read the Torah, as a result, we're reading the Torah through priestly eyes. It's not a coincidence that the very first chapter of the Torah is a P chapter, is a priestly chapter. The introduction to a text, the introduction to a movie, to a piece of music, the first thing that that we encounter [clears throat] does a great deal to shape our view of the whole. And we it's not a coincidence that the Torah begins with P and then we end up seeing God through P's glasses all the way through the Torah. By the way, the very last verses of the Torah are D. And there again we're see the the the final word belongs to D. As a result, the point of view, the fluidity or avatar point of view that I've spent so much energy trying to rediscover tends to get lost in the Torah. Why is it that nobody's noticed this before? Because when P created our Torah, um, created the anthology that is our hum, our pentetuk, P spun it in a certain direction and certain points of view end up getting a little bit lost, which is why I had to spend so much energy going in a way to Mesopotamia and Canaan to become reacquainted with this way of thinking. and only then could I come back to ancient Israel, come back to the Bible and notice this way of thinking as it functions in the Bible. Um, so I I I want to make sure that people realize on the one hand in finding this biblical theology which I spent a lot of time talking about, I I do want to acknowledge that it is a somewhat marginal theology. This is not the the fluidity point of view. The avatar point of view is not the main theological voice of the Tanakh of the Jewish Bible. But it is one voice and I think it's worth our noticing the presence of that voice. It's worth our rediscovering what in a way was a lost voice of Jewish religious creativity. Not lost in the sense that the Dead Sea Scrolls were lost, that they were, you know, they were somewhere in the ground or in a cave. it it was rather hidden in plain sight. It's always been there in the Tanakh, but we've got to undo some of the editing by the Kohanim and the Deuteronomists to rediscover what's been there all the time. Um, the on the other hand, even though it was lost in the Tanakh in some ways, this way of thinking never fully disappeared. And I think that in postbiblical religion um, it this kind of thinking shows up several more times whether this is because people studied the Tanakh and found what we've been noticing for the past uh the past 48 hours or 24 it's been or whether it's because the schools of thought always endured and from one individual teacher to the next student to the next to the next to the next. This way of thinking never went away. Or whether it's just that humans tend to think about religion and to think about God the same way all around the world and so you can find the same patterns emerging again and again. uh because this is just part of the way some human minds work or because this way of thinking really perceives something real about God that later Jews perceived. Again, I don't know what the cause is, but for whatever reason, we can find the avatar idea, we can find the fluidity idea appearing later on in Judaism. And so the debate that shows up between P and D on the one hand and J and E and Hosea and some other texts on the other hand, that debate occurs again and again in new form with new with new participants in later Jewish history. So let me just give a couple of examples of where this idea shows up in later Judaism. I think that this idea shows up in later Judaism in um uh in some early Jewish mysticism that puts a great deal of emphasis uh that puts a great deal of emphasis on God's name. Early Jewish mysticism, this is pre-cabalistic mysticism. Um, the mysticism, this is the mysticism of a lot and meava text of the rabbitic period. Talk about um a a small a small Hashem, Hashem Katan, um who's who has God's name in him, who is more accessible to the mystic, who is dangerous, but not as dangerous as Hashem himself. This is an example of this idea of of some sort of avatar showing up in later Judaism. We also get this idea actually not only in in early Jewish mysticism but even in some late rabbitic texts of the shina in some [clears throat] rabbitic texts especially let's say in midrash mishlay um, you get the idea of the shina as god's presence in the world which is part of god and yet can interact with god. There's a passage in M midrash Mish in which the shina appears before God before God's throne to plead on behalf of the nation Israel. Now the simply is God. It's a it it's a part of God that is more accessible to human beings something that that one can sense more readily. So that this whole dialogue between Shikhina and God is fanciful. It's it's really just a conversation going on inside God's mind uh in the way that you know that that what what's being imagined here is that God is thinking through an issue. But the rabbitic text in Midrash Mish the the Midash in the book of of Proverbs describes this as almost being two characters. This conversation as involving two characters who interact with each other as if though they're independent beings. Though of course we know as monotheists that that's not really the case. that simply is an aspect of God.

>> Here I'm talking about um rabbitic texts and in rabbitic texts of let's say the first millennium CE, we're in CE now. It's all journalism at this point. Um, in rabbitic texts of the late first millennium, shikhina has not yet become the feminine aspect of God, but it's on the way. It's going to be in later Jewish mystical text of of what properly is called Cababala in the 12th century that that idea begins to come out more clearly. In the rabbitic text, it's just one particular sign of God. The noun happens to be feminine, but that's not that's not meaningful in terms of gender. Um, you know, all sorts every single noun in Hebrew has a gender grammatically, which isn't meaningful, um, you know, in a biological sense, so to speak. Um, the um that idea of fluidity of avatars that you see already a little bit in some parts of rabbitic literature. Um, you also see it by the way in Targum in the Aramaic translations and paraphrases of the Bible. It comes across even more strongly in in the Targum. It really comes into its own in classical Jewish mysticism or cababala in the cabalistic works that were written in Spain and in provenance um in the 12th century the 13th century the 14th century. So, as an example, I would especially say the Zohar. Some of you know, and I'm not going to go into great detail here. Um, even though uh uh most of most of us have have passed 40 and we're allowed to read Kabala, um, that would be a whole different uh a whole different set of lectures that somebody else should give. But let me just mention something that some of you already probably know a little bit about which is that classical cababalah for example in the zohar or in safer habah imagines god or perceives god to have a number of different aspects. First of all there's the the the true reality of god which is simply outside of our universe and can never be comprehended or even approached by people like us in this universe. That's the ano that's beyond our comprehension. There's nothing we can say about it. But the ano because of God's great graciousness towards God's creation allows a bit of God to leak into the world to leak into the universe. And as God leaks into the universe or emanates into the universe, different aspects of God become manifest in the universe. Some of these aspects are more present in the universe, more accessible to us. Some are still closer in a way to the ano. And there are 10 of these aspects which are called sephiro in Hebrew. The highest of these 10 aspects is called keter. It's the crown. Then there are various other aspects. Some of them on one side that are a bit more law and justice and strictly oriented. others that are more mercy and graciousness oriented and they come down ultimately until the the lowest of the the satiot which is the one that is most present in the world most accessible to us humans which is known variously asina or malut. So here the cabaliths have taken the old rabbitic idea of and they've run with it further. They're saying it's one aspect of God among many different aspects that are evident in the world. And for them, Shikhina now becomes um an aspect that is maternal in nature that's especially concerned with humanity and accessible to humanity. And therefore now is feminine. It's the feminine side of God. And what's interesting is that these different siro interact with each other in complex ways that seems almost pagan as if though they're different deities and yet kabala tells us the zohar tells us different cababalas tell us again and again all the saphiro are simply aspects of one underlying reality. Um, so that there is this unity that underlines what seems to our human mind to be a plurality, but ultimately it really isn't. It's just that our mind can't conceive of this amazingly complex unity. So our minds have separated it into these different SPI roads. But if you just read some descriptions of the way the saphiro act with each other, you can almost think that these are different gods. Um, for example uh Yod which is one of the lower ranking safiro on Shabbat evening Yod is taken to be a masculine aspect of God which is in fact God's fallus God's penis um yod actually enters into thus is having sex with on Shabbat and human married couples should imitate God in this respect on on Shabbat evening on Friday night according to coalistic uh cababalistic teaching. Now you read about one divine being having sex with another. There's a name for this kind of religious imagery and it's called paganism. Um, pagan religions often describe how a god how gods and goddesses have sexual relations. And so at a glance, this seems to be that, you know, somehow Judaism took a wrong turn and then another wrong turn and another wrong turn and ended up somewhere way behind where Abraham was. But when you read all of these texts, they end up again reminding us, of course, it's all just a unity. It's all a true unity. These aren't different deities. And in fact, cababalistic texts warn us, you should never pray to one of the sifiro as if though it were a god on its own. You pray to you pray to the holy one who becomes available to us and knowable to us in the form of various sap but we shouldn't make the mistake of beginning to pray to individual saphiro as if though they were different deities. Let's take a look at just one text that gives a sense of this which if we can go back to the handout um is text number 12 from among thousands of possible cases. I chose a line from the Zohar that is actually recited um by some Jews on Friday night actually in the sidur um which some synagogues use and in it's used more commonly in Israel I think than in America. Um, one recites this um really right after Kabalachbat. Is that correct? Yeah. After Kabalach before Maiv on Friday night. Um, and there one of the lines that we read describe um how the six safhi wrote located above the shina in in the in the group of the safhiro but below the three highest saphiro which are at the very edge of our universe. um they combine on Shabbat to become something of a unity. And that unification takes place when Jews recite the Shama prayer and concentrate on the word one, the word ehad. That is by saying the word ehad we can bring these saphiro um together helping an act of sort of cosmic intercourse between the male and female saphiro which then bring together all of the lower saphiro that are closest to the world that are most acceptable most accessible in the world. Um, and then we're told that um this should happen in our world as well. I'll just read a few of the lines that we read on Friday night. This is in Aramaic. So, those of you who know Hebrew and are looking at it and kind of frustrating wondering why you don't understand it, please realize this is Aramaic. It's not Hebrew. Just as these wrote up above achieve unity by means of the word one, the we recite in the so to the she that is achieves unity below by means of the secret of one. So that she corresponds with those up above. she the lowest ranking sphira becomes unified with the upper rankings the upper saphiro that have come together um one matching one and we've already established the secret or the mystery that hashem is one and his name is one um so what looks like 10 separate heavenly beings of course it's only these are just manifestations reflections perceptions on our limited human part of what is actually um an ultimate unity. There are other places we could go in Cababala to get a sense of this. I'll just mention one other in a later form of Cababala that comes from the city of Tvat in the 16th century. The Cababala of Isaac Lura known as the Ari Lura developed a theory according to which aspect little bits of God got stuck in the world of matter the world of Gashmude that we live in um when something went wrong at the moment of the creation of the world and little sparks of God's own self are hidden all over the world surrounded by these husks or kleipot and the job of the Jew is to find these husks and by observing mitzvot and by righteous living liberate the sparks that are inside the kipot so that they can return to the godhead to to to the unity of god and this is in fact the goal of the Jewish people this is in fact um the reason behind the observance of the mitzvot according to Isaac Laura and Laurana Kabala and in fact people who take this quite seriously quite literally they'll want to go all over the world. This actually explains why one particular peculiar Muranic mo movement known as kabadidism why they send their all over the world. Why is there a kabad shaly in Nepal? Well, in part it's because lots of Israelis go to Nepal after the army and there's they want to be able to be accessible to them. But it's not just that. It's also um you know or what you know why are there just you know just everywhere because it's their job to spread north south east and westyama vanba a verse from the bible that the latebi uh really loved it's their job to spread all throughout the world and to perform mitzvot so that the kipot that are stuck there can be liberated now this idea that there are parts of god that are all over the world. This is a a fascinating variation on the very old idea that you find in J and E and other parts of the Bible that there are these avatars, that there are these smallcale manifestations of God, that there are separate bodies of God or separate items of God's presence all over the universe. Now, they've taken this idea in a in a new direction. They regard this as a tragic fact, not necessarily as a good thing. And it's our job to undo this fact. But I think that what we see here is a fascinating reworking of this very old biblical idea. My point here is to to say that some of what seems to be the most bizarre and radical and new ideas in the Zohar or in the Cababala of Isaac Lura. some of those ideas that seem to be not even monotheistic but just coming in from left field in a big way. Actually, I believe that these ideas have very deep biblical roots. That some of the most bizarre and apparently polytheistic aspects of paganism are truest to some of the most ancient strata, some of the most ancient writings that we have in the Tanakh. And that when Cababala seems to have flown off the handle, in fact, there's just a very very old Jewish biblical idea that is reemerging in new form. But this happens not only in Cababala. The old ideas reappear elsewhere as well. I think in Jewish philosophy, we can see this going on too. Jewish philosophy, I think, especially in my monities and the Jewish rationalist tradition, um, takes ideas that have their origin really in the book of Deuteronomy and takes those ideas to their logical conclusion. Well, if God never comes becomes fully imminent in the world, if God's body is never down here and God's body is exists in a different realm altogether, the realm that we call up there or shamayim or heaven. Well, what that really means from our point of view is that God has no body at a at the level of the perceptions that we've got. There is no divine body because there's no divine body in our world. Maybe somewhere else outside of space and time, there's a divine reality. But outside space and time there really can't be such a thing as a body because what a body is is a thing located in a specific space in a specific time. So I think that what's happening in mymonities comes up with or and his predecessors like Saji come up with their bizarre radical new idea of an invisible god who has no body. I think they're taking the logic of Deuteronomy much much much further. They're taking it to Deuteronomy's logic to its it its real logical end. And so I think that in Jewish philosophy in the Middle Ages, there begins to be a debate that you can see between the Mymonadans and the Cabalists. A debate that actually endures to this very day to some degree. Um, and that debate turns out to be a very deeply Jewish debate. It's an ancient debate. This is the old debate between D on the one side and J and E on the other. Um, and that debate is re um recreating rewriting a much older debate and I think therefore the debate itself has a certain legitimacy and authenticity. To get a sense of this I wanted to show you a couple of texts um at the end of the handout. One of them is from it's number 11 Roman numeral 11 from Adonolum. And I'm quoting here actually from the sphartic version of Adonolam which adds a couple of lines that we Ashkanazin do not include. And here we read the following. Um, actually what the heck? As long as I'm I'm reading it rather than singing. I'll even try to read it a little bit with the right uh the right meter the right rhythm which would be Um, and he God is one. He is not to and there is no other or no second one to compare to him or to combine with him. He exists without merger, without fragmentation, great in power and in might. Well, when adonalam in this version says that God is one and there is no there's no merger and there is no fu there's no fragmentation what is Donald responding to this is the voice of a rationalist Jewish philosopher responding to the zohar and saying what those cabalists say about god splitting into these different cphi wrote and then they combine on shabas evening you should No, it's not true. God is a unity and there is no and there is no fy. There's no coming together and there's no fragmentation. This is the voice of my monities although it's not written by my monities. No one really knows for sure who wrote but this is the voice of a it may even be primmaadian slightly but it's the voice of the Jewish rationalist who is rejecting the beginnings of of cababala. At the same time it is also at the same time it is it is also I think the voice of Deuteronomy reacting against J and E. That idea of fragmentation and combination that's the old idea that we find in the fluidity tradition. That's the old idea that there's a Hashem of Tan and a Hashem of Shamaron and Hashem avron and Hashem Bition. This is the old idea of the local versions of Hashem which goes back to the old pagan idea of Ishtar of Arbella versus Ishtar of Ninva. Um, who fragment but ultimately are a unity. Uh, this is a protest against this very old ancient neareastern way of thinking that never quite died in Jewish tradition but reemerged in Cababala in Jewish tradition much much later on. Then the Zohar I think is protesting against to take is protesting arguing against this more philosophical point of view. Um, we get then an interesting attempt to combine them in a text that I had mentioned earlier in our first session or which says the prophets portrayed you through comparison in many visions but in reality you are one in all of these different images or maybe through these images or in spite of these images. Um, here you've got another mystic this is one of the Ashkanaz from Germany speaking. You've got another mystic who's saying but of course really it's all metaphor. This is all poetic language. The truth is it's all it's it's all a reality that is is a unity. It's just in our perception that this appearance of fy this appearance of fragmentation occurs because in reality no fragmentation occurred. It's all a re it's all unity. But we can't describe the unity. We can't talk about the unity. So we use these images of fragmentation and reintegration to try to come to some knowledge of God. So this old biblical debate that it never quite goes away. Both sides and then various attempts to bring the sides together, I think, show up in Jewish mysticism and Jewish philosophy in the Middle Ages. Mhm. in fantasy. Imagination >> means imagination. Yeah. Fantasy I think is taking the the maybe is going further or getting more skeptical standing than I think this poet uh in Germany intended to go. >> So it's imagin so it's imagination how we perceive it. It's imagination. But I think they're using the word imagination not as simply something our brain makes up, but as an image produced by our brain in response to some reality that our brain has got access to. In other words, when medieval philosophers talk about the the um the the faculty of imagination, they don't mean what we mean by imagination in the sense of something that can create a fictional story that is not really true. When when they use the terms like imagination, they mean a faculty in our mind or in our soul that can create a human image, an image perceptible to humans of some reality that really is out there in the world. Um, let me mention some other places where you get this old idea reoccurring. I think that in in Jewish mysticism, the old fluidity idea occurs. But another place that it occurs I think is in early Christianity and you may have heard me hinting in this direction previously. So when the New Testament talks about Jesus as being some sort of smallcale human manifestation of God. That's really it sounds to Jews so utterly pagan. But what I'm suggesting is perhaps the radical idea for us Jews that in fact it's not so pagan. That in fact there was a monotheistic version of this that existed already in the Tanakh. And that the Christian idea that Jesus or the logos, the word as the the gospel of John describes it in its opening verses that the presence of the word or Jesus in fleshly form in a human body on the planet earth is actually God making Godself accessible to humanity in an in a kind of avatar. This is what we were seeing in the J and the E texts. This is much less radical than it sounds. Or when the Gospel of John describes God's self as coming down upon and overlapping with Jesus um which is a famous passage early in the Gospel of John. That is actually um that is actually a fairly old ancient neareastern idea of the reality or self of one deity overlapping with some other being. So this is not just Greek paganism sort of smooshed onto a Jewish a Jewish mold which is the way a lot of Jews tend to think of Christianity. This is actually an old ancient neareastern idea that is an old Semitic idea that is that is popping up again among those Jews who were the founders of Christianity even after the time of the New Testament. I think that um even after the time of the New Testament, I think we see this coming up in the doctrine the post New Testament doctrine of the trinity. The trinity the trinity really doesn't occur in the New Testament, but it clears it occurs in early Christianity very soon afterwards. And we Jews have always tended to sort of make fun of the trinity. Oh, how can there be three that is one? um if they've got this threepart god, even if they call it a triune god, a god that is three yet one, really really they're pagans. They're not real monotheists like we Jews are or like the Muslims are. Those Christians are really pagan. But I think that what we're seeing from what I've been saying uh in the past couple days is that you know the idea of the trinity that there is this one God who manifests itself in three different ways that's actually an old ancient neareastern idea that can function in a polytheistic context as it did for the Babylonians and the Canaanites. But it can also function in a monotheistic context um as it does I think in the J and the E texts and some of the other texts that we were looking at. In fact, to say that three is one, heck, the Cababala is going to go further than that. They say 10 is one. Um, the Zohar Sepharabah here, they say 10 is one. And actually, when you get to Lurana Cababala and there's the idea that within each of the saphiro, each of the 10 has 10 sphiro within it. So that we've got a hundred different spher really, we're taking this reasoning much much farther than the Christians did. So actually one of the more radical conclusions that I came to much to my own surprise when I was writing this book and this is not at all what I had intended to do because in various ways that we could discuss if you're interested I'm actually rather uncomfortable with my own conclusion here but as a scholar I got to call him as I see him. Um, one of the conclusions that I came to to my shock when I finished this book is that we Jews have no theological objection to the doctrine of the Trinity. We Jews for centuries have objected to the Trinity, have labeled it pagan, have said, "Well, that's clear. There you can see that the core of Christianity doesn't come out of the the the Hebrew Bible, the Tanakh, what they call the Old Testament. Really, they're being disloyal to the monotheism of the Old Testament." Actually, I think that that's not true. To my surprise, I came to the conclusion, somewhat to my dismay, I came to the conclusion that we Jews have no theological right to object to the Trinity. Theologically, I think that the model of the Trinity is an old ancient neareastern idea that shows up in the Tanakh and that in a different way shows up in Jewish mysticism as well. Um, I think that we have other objections to Christianity. I mean just fundamentally we don't believe that the Messiah has shown up. We do not believe that there that the Messiah came um came to us much less that the Messiah died and is going to come back later again. Um, so we have plenty of areas of disagreement with Christianity. I think that even on some issues of e ethics there are fundamental differences between Judaism and Christianity. I think that in some forms of Christianity there is a glorification of victimhood um that is ethically very very problematic and can lead to injustice. Um, and I think that you know look at the Presbyterian church today.

I think that you can see that, um, very clearly. Um, but, uh, especially in the way that that modern liberal Protestant churches glorify the victim, even when the victim is a perpetrator, and refuse to acknowledge that a victim can be a perpetrator. And here I'm talking about the way liberal Protestant churches view the Arab-Israeli, uh, conflict and view the Palestinians. Um, there's plenty that we can disagree with, but it's not theological.

Fundamentally, the theological model used by the Christianity, I think, is a is one model that shows up in our own sacred literature, in parts of the Tanakh, in the Zohar, in Jewish mysticism. Um, I think furthermore that you can see, um, it's, it's interesting if you read some of the church fathers or some Christian commentators on the story of Abraham and the three visitors. They make a linkage between that story and the doctrine of the Trinity. Those three visitors become a harbinger of a hint at the later idea of the Trinity, for Augustine, much, much later on for Luther. Um, they connect Genesis 18, the three visitors to their theology. And you know what? This is one of those cases of a much later writer saying something that seems very removed from the text, but actually, at some very deep level, they got the shot. They're really correct that there is a linkage between the Trinity, the the theological intuition that's behind the idea of the Trinity, and the theological intuition that is behind the story in Genesis 18.

I'm not saying that I believe in the Trinity, or I'm encouraging anyone to believe in the Trinity. If you believe in the Trinity from a Jewish point of view, you're worse than a heretic. The the actual belief is not a Jewish belief. But the theological intuition behind the belief is a perfectly acceptable intuition that plays itself out in our religion too, though in a different way. So, I'm not saying that the the belief in the Trinity itself is a is a is a legitimate Jewish belief. Clearly, a Jew who believes in the Trinity is a heretic or or worse. Um, it's a Jew for Jesus, which is worse than a heretic. But the intuition behind that, the way of thinking about God is not a way that we can that we can object to.

Um, yes, Andrew.

>> How do your students respond, uh, to this, um, what you just shared with us the last few minutes?

>> You know, I've never really taught this to my students at, um, at Northwestern. This is just a little too advanced. You can't get into this kind of stuff at an undergraduate seminar. Uh, it, you know, my, my, I never taught this at Northwestern because I taught in the Hebrew Bible. I taught advanced courses on specific issues, but this is already a little too, too specific. You don't give a course on this. Um, I've only been at JTS for two years and I've never had the opportunity to teach this at JTS. So, and and, you know, oddly enough, I've never really taught this to to rabbinic groups. I often teach rabbinic groups or Jewish educators, but for whatever reason, I never have taught this to a rabbinic group. I mean, I only finished the book two, two years ago. Um, so this is still relatively new, anyway. So I, yeah, I, I wonder how they'll react, but I've never done it. I mean, this is actually kind of, I mean, and to be honest, and this is a tribute to to this, to to this institute, um, and to what Rabbi Haberman has built. I don't do this normally for adult ed groups. There have been synagogues that ask me for this. I don't, I don't teach this. I, I think that this is too advanced and too potentially troubling. This is only the second time I've ever done this as an adult ed course. I did it previously at Temple Beth El in Highland Park in Illinois because I knew that audience. I knew it's a very traditional conservative shul with people who are very Jewishly learned and Jewishly committed. I think that these ideas could be misunderstood and could be destructive. And when I teach adult ed, I want to be productive, not destructive. At Temple Beth El, I knew that I could do this and it would be productive. In this group, because this is very high-level learning and I understand that people come back to this year after year and people have a strong deep commitment if you're coming to Pearlstone for two whole days. I felt comfortable doing this in this context, but this is only the second time I've done this as an adult ed session. I usually don't offer this. When people ask for it, I will tell them no. Sometimes rabbis of shuls have asked for it as a topic, uh, and I've said that this, this really wouldn't work. I'll only do this if I'm confident in that the group can handle it. I will do it again in Long Island later this year. There's a group that's been meeting now for, this will be year nine of a very advanced adult ed group at a synagogue called Beth Shalom in Roslyn, Long Island. So for year nine, uh, of very serious learning, and I know some of the people who have taught them previously. I feel confident that I can do this. But this, this is, you know, um, you know, this, this is like, I, I, I, this could be misunderstood by some Jewish groups. I'd love to do it for rabbinic, for with the rabbinic group. I just never actually, I, I never have quite yet.

>> Thank you.

>> Mhm. Yes.

>> Would you care to go beyond the medieval rationalist as well as your thoughts about modern Jewish thoughts related to your thesis?

>> You know, well, I, I think so. I think that you can, first of all, there still are, um, we still have Kabbalistic thinkers. Um, and so I think that that side of of of Jewish thought still exists among Kabbalistic thinkers in the 20th century. Um, Rav Kook, for example, the elder Rav Kook. Um, I think that the idea of the non-embodied God comes to its almost apotheosis, if which is a funny word to use in this connection, but it comes to its, um, it, it goes very far, and in fact too far, in the work of Mordecai Kaplan.

Um, I think very, in my opinion, we see the danger of this way of thinking. There's a danger in either way of thinking taken too far. The the model, the fluidity model taken too far can lead to to paganism. I think that's why P and D reject it. It looks a little bit like paganism. Actually, all the pagans do have a a similar belief. But moreover, once you've got these separate manifestations of God, one of which, the Malach, can have its own name, which is Bethel, it's very, very, you're on a slippery slope. You could easily get to a situation where you start thinking Bethel is a separate god from Hashem and you start praying to to Bethel as well as to Hashem, and at that point, you're a pagan. Um, there were Jews living or Israelites living in a place called Elephantine or Yave in Egypt who started praying to Hashem and to Bethel as a separate god, and to Shem Hashem, which they regarded as a feminine side of God who was identical to the goddess Anat, the Canaanite goddess Anat. Um, and I, I think that that's an example of that Jewish community, um, took the fluidity idea so far that they reverted to paganism, and then they started using pagan names actually for some of their gods that they prayed to. Um, it's exactly that development that the priestly and deuteronomic sources were worried about. And that's exactly, you know, the the Jews of Elephantine were the Deuteronomist's worst nightmare, and that's why they rejected this way of thinking. So you can take this idea too far, and you can see medieval rational philosophers and also some medieval Kabbalists who warn against this, who don't want you to fall off the slippery slope. You can take the rationalist idea too far as well, which is, I think, what Mordecai Kaplan did, and he made God so transcendent, um, in some ways, um, that God was no longer the Jewish God at all, that God was merely an idea in in our minds, or, or more perhaps an ideal in our minds and our behavior.

Um, so I, yeah, I, I think that this, that in both sides can go much too far.

Um, let me actually make Howard one more question.

>> I'm thinking of Elijah when he, uh, when he supposedly saw Metatron, the second, as God's chief angel. Thought there were two gods, and that is given to his as his reason for becoming Yes. And that's explicitly linking, I believe, linking up with an idea of a, um, an idea of an avatar, a Malach, that means because Metatron is this being with whom God has overlapped, um, and into whom God has placed the Shem, God's name, God's essence, so that he is called Saraphanim, and also called the the master, the the prince of God's presence, and also called Hashem Katan. And it's very easy to go from there to thinking of Metatron as being a separate god. And if it's true that Elisha ben Abuya did that, yes, I mean, that that gets you from monotheism into heresy, into paganism. It's a real danger. There's no question about that.

Yeah, that's a, that's a very good point. So, let me end by asking, um, well, what do, what do these ideas have to tell us as modern Jews? Um, I don't know that most of us are willing to believe in an actually embodied God. Um, for better or worse, we, we are just western enough and minimalist enough that we don't think of God as having a body or a bunch of bodies. And yet, it's my contention that even when we disagree with what's in the Tanakh, we're free to disagree, to debate with the Tanakh, but we're never free to completely reject it. Anything that's in our scripture is there to teach us something. Um, in a sense, we Jews can never become supersessionists. If it's in our holy writings, it's there to teach us something. And we've got to figure out what it is that we can learn from it, even if we don't fully accept the idea. And I think actually that these ideas of God's body do have a great deal to to teach us.

Um, for starters, and a few of of us have already been chatting about this a little bit, um, the idea of, uh, the idea of God's body, God having a body is a very concrete idea that in that that protects us from thinking of God only in the abstract. The Jewish God is a personal God. A God who may be the master of the whole universe, yes, of course, but is also our own personal God. The God of our family, the God of us as individuals. Um, and a God that has a body is a God that is similar to us, a God whom we can relate to. Um, and therefore the personal, that thinking of God in these concrete terms prevents God from becoming too abstract, as indeed God became for Mordecai Kaplan, um, and for, I think, some other Jewish rationalist philosophers.

Um, furthermore, a God who has a body is a God, well, a being who has a body is a being who can be damaged, a being who can feel pain. Um, and this reminds me of a core Jewish idea that was expressed most of all, thinking of 20th-century Jewish philosophers, was expressed most of all and most eloquently, um, by Abraham Joshua Heschel when he speaks of the traditional Jewish, um, God of pathos. This God who has strong emotions and who feels pain, who feels pain on behalf of God's creation and on behalf of the Jewish people. A God who can feel pain. Um, a God who has a body is therefore a God who can feel pain. But the interesting thing is, and here's where I think the older J idea of the multiply embodied God is paradoxically enough more monotheistic than P's idea of the Kavod as a single body. A God that has multiple bodies can feel pain. And yet, a God that has multiple bodies completely transcends the limitations of embodiment. The reason that theologians have great trouble with the idea of God having a body is that a body by definition is limited. And God by definition, at least the monotheistic God, is limitless. Well, if you've got a God with one body, that body could be limited. If you got a God with no bodies, it's hard to see how that that God can truly be a God for human beings who relates to, has empathy for human beings, and suffers along with human beings. But the the old fluid God of J and E and Hosea and some other texts, that God, on the one hand, because it's an embodied God, can feel pathos and can feel pain. And yet, that God has no limitations because even if one of these bodies is destroyed, there are other bodies elsewhere. So, in a in a paradoxical way, I actually think that the most bizarre of all the different ideas we've been talking about, the idea of the multiply embodied God, is the most monotheistic God.

[clears throat] That's the God who is at once immanent and transcendent. Immanent because that God is fully in the world, can be fully in the world in many different places in the world, but transcendent because that that God vastly is beyond any one body. And so this old idea, as and then the idea as it reoccurs in some forms of Kabbalah, at first glance it seems pagan. I know, but I think that when you think it through, you realize that this is the most monotheistic God of pathos. Um, and that the other attempts at imagining God without a body, um, lose something that this, that this notion at once, um, retains, even as this notion protects God's, even as this notion protects God's transcendence, God's uniqueness, because God's body is so different from our body in in its multiplicity. Precisely the multiplicity is what makes God unique, what makes God, yes.

>> Intervention. Heschel and Kaplan together, you'll note that the two of them were very friendly. Frankly, the only two friendly with one another. They were both outside of the seminary historically.

>> Yeah.

>> And when, when, uh, Heschel was, uh, uh, had a special commemoration of Union Theological, uh, is on becoming the professor of something else there. He invited the entire JTS faculty. The only one that showed up was Mordecai Kaplan.

>> After his talk to embrace.

>> Yeah. I mean,

>> Maybe it's something to do about that both are concerned with ethics, even, even in Kaplan, even Kaplan, God is like a force for good in the world.

>> Mhm.

>> Um,

>> And of course, ethics was all over.

>> Mhm. Yeah.

>> It is fascinating that the two of them, Heschel and Kaplan, they were so different. I mean, they really represent completely opposite sides of Jewish theology. Um, Heschel being really a deeply traditional Jewish thinker. Um, I remember Avigdor Shinan, I don't know if you've ever had him teaching here. He'd actually be a great person to invite. Um, Avigdor Shinan from the Hebrew University. Oh, Martin wasn't there. He didn't hear that. Somebody else has to mention this. Um, when I, I remember Avigdor Shinan from the university once describing Heschel as being Orthodox in sheep's clothing, um, and Heschel was a very traditional Jewish thinker. He was really expressing very old rabbinic and Kabbalistic ideas in in a modern idiom, um, rabbinic ideas, and even much older ideas, showing that they had older roots. Um, whereas Kaplan was a fundamentally radical Jewish thinker. Um, and yet they taught at the same institution. And I'm told that they, they got along fine. And you're right that they, during their lifetimes, they were both in different ways outsiders. Kaplan because he was so radical, and Heschel because he was a Polish at a Lithuanian Misnagdish institution. Um, I mean, Kaplan was Lithuanian. He was from Lithuania.

>> But he was too theologically radical to be accepted there. And I think that they just were, and and the other faculty were all Lithuanians or Germans. It was all Yiddish and Litvish. Um, they just didn't take this Kutshet seriously at all. It's only after he died that he was really that he's been adopted as our patron saint. Um, during, during their lifetime, they were both really kind of on the outs. Um, but, uh, but both of them could be seen as as representing this very, very old debate. And it's, it's salutary to realize that they actually got along just fine. Um, that they themselves got along perfectly well. Mhm.

>> Not so much a question of a statement. You say now that God, if he has many bodies, is more than one single body.

>> Correct. But now the conclusion is then the more bodies you have is the more nature, and that's exactly what are saying, and it was monism, so it was close to monism, essentially, this idea, God and nature.

>> Jerry.

>> Huh?

>> Jerry. Oh, I was going to ask, as long as you go.

>> What do you think about this?

>> Um, I think that this is another example of how you take either of these ideas too far, and you leave the pre, the realm of monotheism. I think that, you know, Spinoza was the kind of monotheism that took monotheism so far that he was genuinely a pagan. A very rationalist kind of pagan, um, but clearly, I think, really clearly a pagan. It's interesting that Yehezkel Kaufmann, the great, great Israeli Bible scholar, um, whose work underlies everything I've been talking about, even though I think that he would have been appalled by some of what I say. Um, but I'm very much, I'm very much a Kaufmannian. Kaufmann, in his Toledot Ha'Emunah Yisrael, his History of Israelite Religion, does refer to Spinoza as being the, um, the logical result of Greek paganism. And I think that he's actually right. Or maybe he's the logical result of taking the fluidity idea too, too far.

Um, [clears throat] but once God becomes identified with the world, as it does for, for, for Spinoza, um, God is no longer this force outside the world that creates and controls the world, or can control it if God so chooses. Um, and, and once you've got a God who is part of the world and subservient to the world, that God, Oh, Martin, Martin, as long as you're going, I'm wondering, would you be able to to fill me up again?

>> Um, once that's happened, I think that you've got a, um, you've gotten yourself outside of paganism, outside of monotheism. Again, the, the advantage of the fluidity idea is that kept in balance, it allows us to have a God of pathos, a God who is part of our, who is in our world, who nonetheless transcends all of the limitations of physicality and of space and time. But if you take that idea too far, you end up in paganism. And that's it's for that reason that J and P, I'm sorry, that P and D were so worried about this idea. And it's for that reason that the baked in, uh, in Amsterdam was so worried about Spinoza. Not that I would again, not that I would support the idea of actually putting somebody in, of excommunicating them, somebody, but they were right. I mean, as a Jew, he was a complete and utter heretic. There's no, there's no question about that.

>> Because I believe was a rationalist and to believe in God, you have to believe in, believe.

>> Yeah.

>> Something that you cannot prove. He wanted to prove. What I wanted to say is just from this aspect, the multibody, and if you, what you essentially repeated similarly, that you come and you say it's more and more more bodies, and you have the totality of the thing, just only from this aspect, you can put that that's all.

>> From the other things, of course, it was a completely different sphere.

>> Mhm.

>> Consciousness.

>> Yeah.

>> Mhm.

>> Barb, you're waiting.

>> Yeah. Um, this may be taking it, it is taking a different direction. Uh, but the, um, the key God in chapter one of Genesis brings order out of chaos and creates something. As a key document, you know, in, uh, Shul, they're making, they're bringing worship into order. And I'm wondering, and and also in terms of what you said about God, but I'm wondering if one way, perhaps one way that P continues in Judaism is that the system of P's law is a way of putting order into your life. That perhaps this partly depending on your top and your system or what you do might be a continuation.

>> Um, I think so. I think that that is true and it is, thanks.

>> Yes.

>> Great. Thanks. Um, I think that that is true. I think that, um, it's then interesting in light of what you said to note that just as P uses law to bring order, greater and greater order to the universe and allow God to be present in the universe, so too Lurianic Kabbalah uses Halakha, uses ritual to create, to to expel the last, the last bits of chaos from the universe and to allow God to be truly one again. And, you know, here again, what seems like such a radical new idea on the part of Luria is less radical than it seems. Now, actually, the great, great scholar Moshe Idel, the great scholar of Jewish mysticism, um, Moshe Idel has already pointed out, and and a few other people have as well, that Luria's idea that the mitzvot are a way of combating chaos in the universe already has roots in rabbinic Judaism. It's not as new as it seems. Moshe Idel has pointed out. I'm actually just going one step further, and in light of what you're saying, you're also going a step further and saying, indeed, not only does do these core aspects of Lurianic Kabbalah have a have roots in, um, in rabbinic texts and Talmudic and Midrashic texts. It goes even further than that. They actually have roots in priestly texts from the Tanakh. Um, that in the Tanakh, it is, um, that God creates order where there was chaos, and we are supposed to imitate God by observing the law, and we imitate God by further creating order where there was chaos, and the way God wants us Jews to do so is by obeying the law. Uh, again, in this respect, Luria is a lot less radical than Luria seems.

>> Yeah. Mhm. Um,

>> I think it's also important that, uh, even even though the P and D, uh, reject or at least play down, certainly the idea of the of the avatars and fluidity, they don't reject the idea of a body, of of God having a body. As a matter of fact, if I, if I remember correctly, in, uh, chapter two of Genesis, after, uh, chapter two or three,

>> Wait, once you pass, once you're at Genesis 2:4b, you're in J. P ends the P creation story goes from Genesis 1:1 to 2:4a. In 2:4b with the word "bom," you're starting at J text, which will go all the way until the end of chapter 5. Yeah.

>> But walking around the garden, that's J. That's J.

>> That's true.

>> J. No. In P, God can't be walking around the garden for two reasons. First of all, P doesn't know anything about the Garden of Eden. And second, I mean, there is no Garden of Eden in P. But even more importantly, for P, God can't be down there until we've got the beginnings of the preparation of the Mishkan. God, there are several thousand years when God is not in the world. God's in communication with the world and in control of the world. But God doesn't come into the world until God has taken these people out of slavery and they begin to respond to God's desire to be present.

>> Or D reject the idea of.

>> No, as I said, I think in D, you can see the very beginnings of the seeds of the rejection in the simple sense that for P, for, excuse me, for D, for Deuteronomy, it's up there, and so it's kind of irrelevant to our world, and you could you could read that and then read some content and sort of come out with the idea that God doesn't have a body. Um, but, but yeah, they don't reject it. But by limiting it to a single body, I think that they become actually more monotheistically problematic than, uh, than the other point of view. It seems, oh, they're going in the unity direction. That's more monotheistic, and that's what they intended to do. But I think that in so far as the one body seems more susceptible to limitation, they're moving in the wrong direction. Whereas the older J idea in seeing God as being embodied, but in no way limited because there are many bodies, oddly enough, that's more of a, that's more of a monotheistic way of thinking.

>> Could we back up?

>> Let's go counterclockwise. So, the next person is, I'm not sure what your name is.

>> I'd like to go back to what I think you started with, and I think I took it as a challenge. Uh, you said something like, "Normally, Jews don't talk about God."

>> Mhm.

>> And we're going to start, we're going to talk about God, uh, for the next four sessions.

>> Mhm.

>> Uh, but now that you've opened up the box, uh, and pointed out that when you're talking about these four strains coming together and separating and talking about 4A and 4B, it's a complex kind of undertaking to understand all of these things. So now I'm issuing a challenge here. Why not go back to the idea that, uh, the important thing is actions and do the mitzvot, do them for God's sake, do it for your sake, your fellow man. And all of these notions about God are not really very productive. So what do you think we should get out of talking about God?

>> Great question. Um, I mean, I agree with you that it is a core Jewish thinking, a core Jewish idea that, um, that it's ultimately actions that matter and not ideas. Of course, but that idea is an idea. We're not, we're, we can only have the idea that actions matter more than ideas if we respect ideas. Um, the furthermore, the way you phrased it, I think was very important when you said it's the actions that matter. So, it's the mitzvot. Do the mitzvot. Do them for God. Do them for humanity. Well, doing them for God is doing them for God. You've got to have an idea of God if you're going to do them for God.

>> Um,

>> God is a given. Whatever.

>> Well, I think maybe the problem is that sometimes we Jews accept that God is a given and we don't go any further than that. And that can lead to a, that can lead to any number of of problems. For one thing, I think it can lead to, and it does lead to, a very dry religion. A religion where we do the mitzvot mechanically because we put so much emphasis on the mitzvot that the mitzvot are what we have instead of God. And I do think, uh, that there are certain kinds of Orthodoxy where that is the case, where where God is missing because the halakhic system has become God, and the halakhic system has become an end in itself rather than being a means to an end, which is a way of our relating to God. The reason you put tefillin on in the morning, and you wrap this around your finger, isn't because wrapping the leather strap around your finger is inherently important, is because by wrapping the leather strap around your finger, you're connecting yourself to God. You're marrying God. And I, I, I think, I mean, those of you who have some some, uh, intimate connections with Orthodox communities know that there are communities where this happens. Um, I mean, to some degree, the Hasidic movement itself was a reaction to that kind of Orthodoxy in Lithuania, that kind of highly rationalist Orthodoxy in Lithuania, and the need for that reaction never goes away. To put it differently, Jesus was actually right about the Pharisees. What his followers ended up building as a response, that that that we don't have to agree with. But Jesus' critique of Pharisaic religion is a critique that is very legitimate when you look at certain Jewish Orthodox communities today. So that I think that that's one thing that that remembering the end is useful so that that the means to the end doesn't utterly take over. Um, you know, I can give you some examples. I mean, my own family on my mother's side is a Litvish family. I mean, I, I can just, you know, think of things that I've seen where, yeah, this, this really is, uh, this really is the case.

Um, the at the same time, I think that remembering God prevents us liberal Jews, us modern Jews, from, uh, from various sins that we regularly commit. I think that we modern Jews in the liberal movements, um, that we're often very guilty of just making religion into our own playthings. We make religion, um, into something to express our own political, social, aesthetic ideals, and we just go ahead and change religion, and change Judaism, change Torah in any way that we want to. Um, and I think that remembering that Judaism is the result of a dialogue between God and Israel and Torah in the broad sense of Torah, not just the five books, but Torah as an on the ongoing collection of Jewish of Jewish knowledge and Jewish teaching. Torah is always the result of a dialogue between the people Israel and the God of Israel. And we need to pause to remember something that we in the modern movements tend not to remember, which is that in a dialogue, there's somebody else speaking.

Um, and I think liberal Jews, both in religious settings and in other settings, as a matter of fact, do tend to forget in dialogues that somebody else is speaking. Um, and the other people, the other, the other speakers in this dialogue include, first of all, other Jews who lived in the past, whose, um, whose thought or whose opinions we blow by much too quickly. Um, and the other speaker somehow includes God. Um, and it's very, very, very hard for us to hear God. And the one of the ways we're supposed to hear God is through the tradition. Um, and if we pause to remember that there really is a God, um, and that God really is sovereign, and our our role is to be God's servants, um, when we remember that there, that this dialogue is a covenant, it's a brit, it's a contract, and that in this contract, there are two different parties who have different statuses. God is the susarin, the overlord, and we are the slaves. We might be, um, rather more humble in the way that we, that we reshape Judaism. I think that we, that we modern Jews, we liberal Jews, reshape Judaism in our own image much, much too glibly and much too quickly. Um, and that what's missing from modern Jewish religiosity in the Conservative, Reconstructionist, and Reform movements is one very basic Jewish, or actually just very basic religious value, which is humility. We liberal Jews, we Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist Jews, we have no humility. We just go ahead and change Judaism into whatever we want it to be. And now, changing Judaism is legitimate. It's always been changing through history. Change itself is is not heretical, is not wrong, but it's something that we ought to do in fear and trembling and with respect and with humility. And if we can try to remember that there is this other party in the dialogue who is the higher party and we're the lower one, um, maybe we can begin to reclaim the humility, uh, that we've lost.

Um, so both for Orthodox Jews and for liberal Jews, I think that bringing God back into the conversation and not just thinking too much of our own actions is actually very, very useful. Um, and bringing a very concrete God, a real God who makes specific demands on us, um, is very, very useful. And the concrete God of pathos, which is the God with with a body or with bodies, is a God who who can make demands on us in a specific way. Whereas the very, very abstract God of the r of the hyper-rationalist, like, um, like Mordecai Kaplan, um, or even a different kind of hyper-rationalist, uh, who ultimately, I think, is a far more important philosopher, Hermann Cohen, um, that God is not a God who who makes such specific demands on us. And it's for that reason that in Cohen's world and in Kaplan's world, the mitzvah would end up kind of just melting away, um, if not in their own practice, then in the practice of the generation that comes after them.

Um, and I think therefore that the, the concrete God that that we've been talking about has a great deal to say to modern liberal Jews, as well as a great deal to say to a certain kind of Orthodox Jew.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. We, you were waiting. Sorry. Um, I'm glad that Jerry brought up, um, the Garden of Eden, uh, because I like to think that, um, there was once upon a time something kind of like the Garden of Eden where the connection between his two creations, his two humiliations, was so intimate that I, I like to say, uh, God could drop into a cup of tea.

Um, which leads me to the question of, you've been talking about God's bodies for two days. Body, bodies for two days. You've been talking about God's bodies or body for two days. Are, are you ever conceiving of this in any, um, material, tactical way, or are we talking about energy particles here?

>> I think that in the biblical texts, you get both ideas. In Genesis 18, or in the Garden of Eden story in Genesis chapter 3, um, God seems to be just a have a body that's very much like a human body. In Genesis chapter 3, God is taking a walk at the breezy time of day, which makes it pretty clear to me that God has something closely resembling legs. Um, so that seems to be a very human kind of body. Um, in Genesis 18, Abraham doesn't even recognize that this is a, a divine being. It's so much like a human body that Abraham didn't doesn't even realize who he's speaking to, at least initially. On the other hand, in Genesis chap, in Exodus chapter 3, it's a flame, and it's not a flame like we know. It's a different kind of flame because it can stay inside that bush without burning the bush. So the word fire there, um, "lahav," a flame of fire, that's the closest the narrator could come to with the narrator's vocabulary to describe what this was, but it's not exactly what we call fire. That's why Ezekiel also says, "kimar," it had the appearance of fire, but it's not exactly fire. Um, but so there are other texts like Genesis 3, the P texts, um, Ezekiel, where God's body is this kind of energy, whether it's this small amount of energy in the case of the avatar in Genesis 3, or the the full monty in the P texts and in Ezekiel, um, where it's this this, um, this thing that is light or fire or like light or fire that can be bigger or smaller. Um, that model exists as well. I, I think the Bible knows both models. I would have to say, and I myself, I, I, you know, I can't say having written this book that I, I actually believe, um, literally in an embodied God. Ultimately, I think that God is outside the categories or beyond the categories of space and time.

Um, and that matter itself, what is matter in itself other than something that exists in in God's imagination? Space, time, and what's in it. These are all things that exist in God's imagination. So that, um, uh, from a sort of theological, but Kantian point of view, if some, some people might understand where I'm coming from a little bit here, um, matter is a phenomenon that exists only in our perception in space and time, and ultimately God is beyond that. So, I, I don't literally think of God having a body here in the world, but I think that my scripture is telling me something, something very important about God's presence in the world, God's desire to be present in the world, our ability to draw God into the world, and also our ability to force God out. And, you know, the choice is ours as to which we end up in fact doing. Was there another hand over here?

Um, Mark.

>> You, you just said the choice is ours. It raises the question whether this embodied God has choice at all, right or wrong, or does he have free? Does God have free choice? If you give him a body,

>> Mhm.

>> do you also give him something else? Something that transcends the body, rejoice,

>> Good and evil, right and wrong.

>> Mhm. I think,

>> Moral ethics, the ability to propagate with a thought, a goose.

>> The God, the biblical God clearly has choice and is a moral, is a moral being in a way. Let's say that Spinoza's God is not. Spinoza's God is perhaps a moral being, but in a very abstract way. No, the biblical God really does things and makes choices and is free to make whatever choice God wants to make. Which is why sometimes God seems utterly immoral and does things that we, we are told not to do, like punishing children for their parents' sins, which we're not allowed to do, but parts of the Bible say that God does do. And God is ultimately not constrained by morality. God's above everything. On the other hand, God in the Bible, I think, limits God's own freedom by giving humanity freedom. Once God gives Adam or Adam and Eve free will, God has now limited God's own capacity to control the universe. There are now things that God has voluntarily given up. Some of us were talking about this a little bit before lunch. It may even be the case that by creating a sentient being who gets access to the Tree of Knowledge, God has limited God's own knowledge. That God may be omniscient except in so far God has put some box around God's own omniscience by making by giving us the ability to make our own choices. So I'd say the God of the Bible is a free agent who can choose freely. Um, and thus he's different from Spinoza's God or maybe maybe maybe even my God, um, a rationalist God, in that it, there's no necessity in God's choice. It's not automatic. But that God is also a God who voluntarily limited his own power by creating human beings with free will, or by giving humans free will.

Um, one more question, and then I think we're just, we're almost out of time.

>> One, one thing that you, that you didn't bring up during the whole time we were here was one of the stories that you had us read, uh, about the, uh, about the Ark.

>> Yeah.

>> About the people who brought the Ark into battle because they thought it was like an amulet that they could.

>> They were trying to control God.

>> They could control God. But God had other plans. God had had free will and decided he was going to help out the Israelites, but his wife.

>> Um, correct. We didn't, we never got around to that, unfortunately. But, uh, the, the God of, yeah, I think that that story is what happens if God only has one body and we know where it is and we own it, then you can very easily become pagan in the sense that you think that we control God. Um, and God, then the Deuteronomic author of that story, um, shows how God clearly disabused the Israelites of that notion. That's a story in which two different notions of God are really competing with each other. The characters have one set of ideas, and the narrator has a different set, and there's something of a back and forth throughout the story, uh, in, in, um, in that particular text.

Um, I think, uh, I think we're just about out of time. Uh, do you want to say any last stuff?

>> I can stand here.

>> Okay. So let's, uh, finish off, and then maybe I'll say Kaddish, um, and, uh, and Mincha, but I want to say Kabbalat, as well.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> Okay. Um, I think like a lot of you, I don't want this to end. Uh, this has been, uh, wonderful and fun, and, uh, I think we all, uh, want to thank you very much for all this knowledge we've had and and such a wonderful experience.

>> Thank you. [applause]