Transcription
My parents, they were hawkers. My English wasn't very good. You don't get to MD level by being nice. I can boost your ego. I can also crush your ego. When you do well, some people want a piece of your pie. Is there meaning in trying to fight for credit? As you make more money, you upgrade your lifestyle. You have money, but you got no more health. This cannot be the way to live our lives.
>> Hi everyone, welcome to another episode. Today we have a heavyweight of a guest. It is so serious and so heavyweight that I have even gotten my own jacket out. Today's guest spent over 20 years in the finance industry and eventually made it to an MD managing director in a top tier investment bank. And that alone is already a very respectable milestone. But he decided to walk away and hopefully he'll share with us the reasons why he did that and decided to pursue his own passion and build his own thing. And today he is a published author. He's an executive coach, a professional speaker, and most impressively, he has built up his own personal brand to over two million followers on LinkedIn. Today's guest is Eric. Eric, thank you for coming and welcome.
>> Thank you, Sha, for having me. Really excited to be discussing about the topic you are most interested in.
>> Yes. So, how Eric and I came across is he was so kind to actually watch my YouTube video and I have been following his journey and his content on LinkedIn as well and we just naturally hit it off and just exchange message and he's so kind today to do this uh interview with us. So, Eric, for those who are not so active on LinkedIn and have not heard of you, could you just introduce yourself a little bit to to the audience?
>> Yeah, so now I have a portfolio career. I teach in the universities. I also coach. I speak around the world. This year I've spoken in Chicago, Madrid, Mumbai. I also give a lecture to Oxford Masters in Financial Economics on Investment Banking. And yeah, I write on LinkedIn. I publish book uh you got a copy over there.
>> This is his book, Small Actions. We'll talk a little bit about it later as well. So Eric, I think most people in Singapore when it comes to a career in finance, it is the ideal career. And you had a illustrious career in in banking and making it all the way to MD which when I was in finance I was like craving actually I don't even need managing director director to me was good enough already. So could you walk us through this journey? How did you get all the way to the top?
>> To understand my journey, I need to bring you to my childhood. So I was suffering from inferiority complex. My parents uh they were hawkers. So my father's soul prawn noodles uh in the hawker center.
>> Is you in business?
>> Yeah. No, no longer in business.
>> You took good care of them then?
>> Yeah, I took to good care of them. So without good English without um knowing the world except at the hawker store I have always been or in fact I have been always um following other people's footstep. So when it comes to choosing secondary school, I look at my senior. So they went to Anderson secondary. So I went when they moved to Anderson Junior College, I went. Also when they chose engineering, I also follow. Then when I was in university, I said this cannot be the way to live our life. If I keep following people,
>> I'm going to live like everybody else, which is average at best. So then I decided I just want to do something different. So I just go on the other extreme when buying cameras I bought Nikon instead of Canon. When buying computer I bought Mac instead of PC. So because at that time Mac wasn't popular you know in in around year 2000. So when it comes to career I got an engineering degree. So by right I should go and find an engineering job. uh but I did that I say okay let me go and find uh banking and finance job. So very fortunately I got my first job at DBS bank and I started out as FX sales then I went to do risk management in Stanard then city for 8 years then UBS.
>> so there's a bit of contraring thinking even at an early age in terms of how you you plan your life ahead. Yeah, trying to be different uh from other people so that I can live a more interesting life.
>> A lot of people aspire to be the top and we all aspire to be the top because the salary is good, the prestige, the title.
>> But perhaps you could share you walked away from that after building you know putting in so much s cost. A lot of people will find it difficult to do that. Could you share with us that process or why did you walk away and what were some of the things that perhaps from the outside people or even yourself didn't know that was required to be at such a top level?
>> Actually my job is very easy uh in investment banking as MD my job is to build relationships with customers why and understand their problems and I'm just flying around to meet customers. The heavy lifting is done by my my my analyst my team.
>> which is what I was doing. [laughter]
>> So I don't even need to do any PowerPoint.
>> Okay.
>> Right. So it's a very simple job. Um I enjoyed that a lot but that is not my my calling. In fact uh when I was in banking I was also teaching on the site. My first teaching was in 2003.
>> So you're doing this concurrently. after work after your 9 to5 you
>> then of course sometimes uh if it's in the day then I just take annual leave and and go and go and do it so I started with one lecture a year for the first few years and when I moved to China then I start teaching it at some Chinese universities I came to I went to Hong Kong to work with UBS and at that time I was an adjunk associate professor with Hong Kong University of Science and Technology. So, I'm not doing what I'm doing now after leaving banking. In fact, I was already doing it before. I was invited to give uh speeches uh regularly. Although I don't get paid for for giving speeches. Uh but I knew there's a a demand uh for for my journey or for what I share. And I also wrote on LinkedIn in 2015.
>> Yeah. That's when you started the deal.
>> Yeah. That time I was uh still with bank uh still with UBS.
>> Something I want to call out here what Eric did in today we call it over employment meaning to say within the same time he's he's doing multiple things as opposed to
>> you know doing one thing then you take a pause and then then you figure it out and you start from the bottom. So you were sort of having some kind of cushion as well right like you were trying out lecturing you prospecting to see who would give you a chance but you were still working in your day job.
>> Yes. So of course my day job gave me the money. My teaching gave me a lot of meaning. I'm teaching the students and I'm teaching something different from the professor. The professor teach uh theory and the models. I teach them how to get into investment banking, sales and trading. I teach them how to win the mandate.
>> And are you still teaching this class right now?
>> I'm still teaching.
>> Okay. Where are you teaching in English or some students are? Uh I'm teaching in NPU in N US. Uh this summer I gave a lecture on investment banking to Oxford masters in uh financial economics. I was just telling you.
>> and last year I was in Cambridge.
>> Okay. So for all the students who are from NTU and US from Singapore, please make sure to sign up for his class. You have to do early because by the sounds of it is definitely overs subscribed.
>> Um in fact for NTU year 2 is compulsory.
>> Oh okay. Then for N US business school year one is also mandatory.
>> Amazing. Amazing. So I hear from your banking days just the last point about it. You talk about wine and die meeting your customers flying around.
>> These all sound so amazing. So what's the downside and what made you left? What made you leave?
>> Of course downside is is very competitive this uh business with customers and more importantly is also very competitive among colleagues. You don't get to MD level by being nice, right? Yeah. You need to fight your way up. And I feel that I've done enough of this. So, is there meaning in trying to fight for credit? Um, trying to fan off people? Is my time better used somewhere else? So, that was my my thinking.
>> Okay. And you mentioned, you know, you can't make it to the top by being nice. Could you elaborate a little bit about that? Because when when you do well, some people want a piece of your pie. So I set up a a business which is servicing financial institution on some structured finance. Before that nobody was covering that because it takes a long time to build that relationship to sign a document called ISA. But once I started doing that then other departments say hey, that's a good business maybe they can also chip in. I've got people who talk to the client and knew that I was going to meet the client in the afternoon. They book a meeting few hours before me.
>> Oh, they frontload. They try to
>> Yeah. So I find that I need to fight them off. For me, it's not difficult because the clients know knows me. In fact, it's a client who told me,
>> "Hey, your colleague coming in the morning." I say, "It's okay, you know, have a chat then you can compare." So usually I still get the deals but I find that I'm spending this energy on something that is not really meaningful to to what I want to do in life and my objective of doing banking and getting to MD is so that when I teach I have got more credentials. Yeah. So that's the whole whole purpose. Yeah.
>> Yes. I can relate because I I didn't do as as long as you did in banking. But the level of competition, the level of this like donkey eat dog or you got to protect your turf and you know people trying to in some sense steal your customers is is very real because the rewards are just so massive, right?
>> Yeah. The the the reward is massive and also people try to get promoted to MD and yeah they do whatever it takes. In your past interview with another publication, you mentioned that I am good at playing the game, but that doesn't mean that I want to play the game forever. Can you elaborate a little bit about that?
>> So, I'm good uh at playing the games means I can boost your ego, I can also crush your ego,
>> but whether I enjoy doing that is a completely different ball game. Say for example say if you and I we are both MDs you know in investment banking may may or may not be in the same bank and if I want to boost your ego I can say Sha, you know, you come from a rich family, you went to IV league and yet you are still doing this investment banking job it's so stressful you have already proven your worth doing it you know it shows you don't need to
>> you don't need to shows that you have got a lot of um with a lot of greet uh instead of spending time at the beach you know you are flying around taking red eye flight to serve your customers well very commendable I boost your ego right you feel good right
>> yes
>> I can also crush your ego so
>> hey Sha, this investment banking job you got you know you went to Oxford or you went to Iv delay and you're MD, shouldn't you do more than that?
>> Right? I see a lot of rich people's kids, they doing successful startup, multi-billion, and this type of job leave it to people like me,
>> you know, from uh hawkers family go to local school.
>> My ROI on my education,
>> I'm not even that person. I already feel fire already. [laughter]
>> My ROI on my education is much higher than yours. So what are you doing here?
>> So when would there be in a scenario in your banking experience journey where you need to crush someone's ego?
>> Many times. Yeah. Uh some sometimes people get on my nerve then yeah I just crush it.
>> because they're trying to step into your tur trying to take your territory take your client. Guys, this is firsthand the level of mind games required to really excel in a very competitive industry. You mentioned that okay, you spent a good number of years in in in finance and you you were very good at it but you walked away from it because you you wanted to pursue something a bit more purposeful, a bit more personal to you.
>> Do you think people at your level feel that way?
>> meaning to say
>> you know, because for me what I'm trying to get at is it took me so much effort to reach this level.
>> Why don't I just continue? Why do I want to take a risk and try something else? So do you think most people are like that or do you think that at the MD level at the C seuite level they are happy with what they do or they are also a bit jaded, a bit tired, a bit stressed out and they are yearning to do something um?
>> I think at MD levels most people have some part of their job that they're not not happy about. They can still continue doing because the money is good, you know, and if they quit, what are they going to do? So sometime is it comes with the rank, you know, you got secretary to book your flight and you got business class.
>> Yeah, you fly business class. You stay in fivestar hotel and you got team of analyst at your back and call.
>> So why should do I want to leave that? But for me, I always think about the three the three stages in life. Stage one is when you're young, you have time and health but no money. Stage two is when you are MD, you got money,
>> you got health,
>> but I got no time.
>> Okay.
>> For me, my time is doesn't belong to me. If there's a deal, I need to drop everything and work on the deal, right? I have days where I went home only at 3:00 a.m. because I was exe executing some deals. I have got days where I have to cut shop my holidays and uh come back to work. Yeah. Then stage three is when you're old, retired, you got all the time in the world.
>> Yes.
>> You have money, but you got no more health. You know, your knee start giving you problems. You cannot run a marathon anymore. But there's a magical stage between stage two and stage three where you have all three, time, health, and money, which is what I have now. Okay? My objective is to prolong that stage. I don't want to go from stage two to stage three without ever enjoying the magical stage. Yeah. And then once you are in the magical stage, there are also other things that you need relationship. You need different skill set because what is valuable in your day job once you quit is no longer valuable. Like investment banking I because of that skill set the network I can make a lot of money. But the moment I'm not in that
>> out of that circle,
>> that is pretty much useless. Basically, I won't get paid as much. Not even
>> it's not as valuable in another realm, another reality.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So that that is my my take. And for the other people um they are unhappy but because they want to keep up with their lifestyle, it's difficult for them to quit.
>> What do you mean lifesty? Can you elaborate? Like you mean like they have a certain lifestyle, a certain expectations that they have that they need to maintain.
>> So as you make more money, you upgrade your lifestyle.
>> Okay.
>> Right. And you need to keep up with your peers or your industry uh friends. I give you one example please.
>> When I move to Hong Kong to take up the MD job, I need to rent a place. So for the MD level, usually you rent a place at mid levels in Hong Kong and the rental the lower end of the range is 12,000 US. Okay. So that is kind of a matching to my title the lower end 12,000. I say no, I I don't want I don't I don't need people to to judge me based on where I live. So I live still a nice place slightly further away 20 minutes away. Uh it's called Bel Air. Fantastic. It's C view. It has got uh tennis court swimming pools and it's only 8,000 US. So it's 4,000 difference, right?
>> Yeah. 50%.
>> Yeah. 4,000 multiply by 12 months multiply by 7 years. That's how long I stayed in Hong Kong.
>> Wow. That comes out to be 336,000 US. If I took that money and do some simple investment, it can be 400,000.
>> Yes.
>> So, you can see the difference with that 400,000 you can live a bit earlier, right? That could be one or two years of uh expenses.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. So that is the the part about lifestyle where people when they move up they also buy a bigger car and stay in better place and also spend money on building a wine celler [laughter]
>> and buy the
>> and then they they keep trying to invite their friends over to show off their wine celler and have drinks at their place. Right.
>> So many people run out of excuse to invite people. The first year you can say is housewarming. second year, nobody wants to come to your house warming anymore.
>> It's it must be quite um bruising to the ego, right? That you value something so much that your peers don't really value as much. So, you sort of have to beg them to come over.
>> Yeah. And you have to find excuses and some of them don't even like to drink.
>> But because everyone else have a wine seller, they have it.
>> Yeah. Then, you know, some will build a carro room. I say that, you know, that's a white elephant. You sing carro at home. Is it fun?
>> And all the time, right? Do you even need to invest in one?
>> Yeah. And and it takes up space, right?
>> Yes. It could be something else. So what Eric is now sharing with us is that even at the top high income level, the highest income level at the top 1%,
>> we are also subjected to lifestyle inflation. We are also subjected to comparison and seeing and and afraid of what other people would think.
>> because this is uh human nature. So I give you another example. when I moved back uh from Hong Kong. So I already left uh UBS came back to Singapore. Now I need to buy a car. Just now we talk about house now car right because that's also one of the items. Buying car do I then buy a car that match my MD status because I'm no longer in banking but I just want to show people that I'm still successful so I need to buy something that match. In Hong Kong, I was driving the twodoor convertible car because Hong Kong car is cheaper. So, I can afford to do that. If I buy back the same car, same level at that time will be 350,000 sing for that car. So, I said, do I need to do that? Says no. I bought the smallest car, the cheapest car I ever bought, but I still got some worry. What would people think of me? Then I start giving uh meeting people sometimes I give them a lift after after meet up. Nobody say a thing. Nobody treated me differently.
>> Nobody say like hey, your car age at your level you driving this type of car.
>> No no nobody says that. They are not interested in what car I drive. They are more interested in how I get to do so many things.
>> of who you are the the things that you represent.
>> Yeah. uh how come I can get featured uh by business insider? How come I got 2 million followers? Those are more important for them. And to tell you the truth, most people think about themsel think think about you.
>> Yes. So a lot of this worry and everything, it almost sounds like it's a limiting belief like you put it on yourself thinking that other people would think of you in a in a different light. So therefore you need to do this and therefore you limit your potential and limit your options.
>> Yeah. Then you try to buy things to impress others. People are not impressed because they don't even look at your watch. I don't look at people's watches, right? So why should I expect people to look at mine? That's why I wear a Timex.
>> Um I think it's
>> good on you.
>> Yeah. It's been 20 years I've been wearing Timex.
>> Can you show the camera in case people don't believe, right?
>> Yeah. So it's um it served me well and I like it.
>> Yeah.
>> But this can be actually the ultimate flex, right? When you have the capability to buy any watch you want, but I still choose to go on my trusted watch. It shows some kind of groundedness or some kind of uh maturity.
>> I'm just too lazy to send my watch for servicing. You know those expensive watches you have to send for servicing maybe once a year and the servicing cost is sometimes 5% of the price of the watch.
>> I didn't know that. Wow.
>> Yeah.
>> I didn't know. I thought you buy a watch and that's it. You got to keep servicing.
>> You have to keep servicing it. And also those mechanical watch you need to buy a shaker to keep shaking it. Because I travel sometime I need to adjust the watch.
>> to the local time.
>> Right.
>> Then you adjusting and then
>> so you can't just adjust it. It goes to high end. What? You can adjust but then it's not so not as accurate, right?
>> Whereas a digital watch, you always be accurate because I need to be on time.
>> I'm not always on Zoom lecture. I need to be on time. I need to know the time exactly to the minute.
>> Wow. Eric, you just gave us a glimpse into a completely different world of how people operate and uh and think and spend their money, but there's some similarities to everyone as well. So we all go through the same level of insecurity, the same level of aspirations to do something.
>> Yeah. So when you are in your 30s and 40s, you will have to go through this phase of trying to show off a little bit.
>> It's okay to go into that phase, but just don't go too deep and don't stay too long.
>> Don't get stuck in it.
>> Yeah. So when in Hong Kong I told you I bought a blue door convertible nice car but that's because I was in Hong Kong and the car price is less than half of Singapore and I thought
>> in Singapore if I buy a convertible when I get a chance
>> I never get a chance to let down the road. So I buy I enjoy in the place that is cheap and I don't deprive myself from enjoying.
>> I like I like it.
>> Yeah. So, if you're thinking, hey, maybe I need to buy some of one or two items, don't go crazy, you know, within your means, uh, do it and then very quickly you'll get over it.
>> I like that. You're not saying don't make that mistake or don't enjoy it and be so frugal and be so stingy, but take it as it is when it comes to when you're at that age. If you want to do it, do it, but then make sure that you have something else to move on to.
>> Yeah, you have something else to move on to. um you can do things that are meaningful you know to you and try learn different skills as well so people can be impressed with your knowledge, your network, your ability to create impact, the way you write, the way you speak, all these.
>> that's way more valuable than the watch you wear or the car you drive right because people like you said aren't even putting that much value on it in the first place.
>> Plus when you meet somebody who drives a more expensive expensive car than you, a more expensive watch than you. Then you feel bad.
>> You straight away come very small. Yeah.
>> Wow. Okay. That's a game that you will never win. Then you
>> because there's always somebody who's going to spend more than you. [laughter]
>> Okay. Uh Eric, you talked about a lot of things. You talk about moving on to the to the next stage of your career, your life, and extending that window, right?
>> That magical stage.
>> I guess a lot of people watching this, they all aspire to do the same thing. yet for whatever reason they may not have the courage or capability to do that. If you you meet someone like that, what would your advice be for them?
>> So, you need to do trial and error. A lot of things I'm doing now, I've been testing them while I was still in banking. For example, writing. I submit articles, technical articles to trade publication like a risk management or derivative publication to just get used to that. I started writing on LinkedIn before I two years before I left and I give a lot of internal trainings to practice my public speaking. Then I can go to university to teach.
>> Yeah. It's not like suddenly I jump out and start thinking because once you jump out you don't have a day job it's much more difficult to do what you want to do. For example, a lot of people came to me and say I want to teach in the university.
>> Yes.
>> But now I got no time. I'll do it after I retire. By the time you retire there's no demand for you because there are a lot of retirees.
>> Yes.
>> who wants to teach and the university prefers somebody who is
>> active.
>> active still having the day job.
>> yes.
>> In my case because I've been teaching the feedback is good then they continue using me even though I have already left banking and for me I always bring my network of people the fellow bankers to come to teach with me. So I would say trial and error now don't wait.
>> take action.
>> take action. Try it out. Then you know what you like.
>> And I think take small actions is the title of his book. See, I managed to plug it in.
>> Yeah. So, what I'm hearing from you, you clearly have a finance background because what you're saying is really risk management, right? Don't go all the way in and then drop everything that you're doing just because you're not happy or not fulfilled. You you do a bit of testing first because right now online there's this narrative where like you got to go all in.
>> You got to drop everything and put 100% focus. But what you're saying is actually it's more prudent to test it out. Then you get a bit more confidence, a bit more momentum, then you build it out and then eventually you.
>> Yeah. So I say that the first step is do a a side gig. Develop your interest. You don't have to make money. You do you have done that then stage two is make your first dollar. Making the first dollar is the most difficult because for a company to pay you $1, the companies needs to give
>> invoice.
>> need to give you need. Yeah. Need need you to submit invoice, need to get approval, need your bank account, and you need to get compliance approval to make money outside your day job.
>> Yes.
>> So making that first dollar is a milestone. If you can do that, it shows number one if there's a demand for you. Even if they pay you $1, which is different from free. Free a lot of people will want you, right? Number two, you got good relationship with your current employer that you manage to convince them to let you do this outside and when you leave, they will continue to support you.
>> So don't don't burn bridges because a lot of time your customers for your next phase comes from your colleagues. They can invite you to come back to teach.
>> or you could refer people.
>> Yeah, they could refer to you. Hey, this guy is a great coach. He helped me. He helped our juniors can go to him. Oh, this guy is a great speaker. Our internal training always we look for him.
>> Last question. LinkedIn. You're very prominent on LinkedIn. Everybody Eric here for those unfamiliar LinkedIn. I'm I'm quite familiar. I used to work in LinkedIn by the way but my LinkedIn game is not as far inferior than his which shows you that you know sometimes people working in the company may not know as much as people from the outside. For those who are not familiar with LinkedIn, Eric actually is a LinkedIn top voice. So that is like the the highest high influencers title that they give people who are very active and and give a lot of good content on LinkedIn. He is the only person I know or in fact the only person out there that hosts the LinkedIn top voices in two separate markets in two separate languages as well. So he hosts it in Singapore and in China as well.
>> In China in the same year.
>> in the same year. So it is like if you're in MMA, you are the champion in heavyweight and in middleweight, right? Or in Olympics, you you get a go in swimming and running as well. Why LinkedIn? Why not, you know, Tik Tok? Why not Instagram?
>> Okay. I tried writing on Facebook. My friends, my classmate, you know, uh knew me when I was a loser. So why would they write or why would they read my career advice,
>> right?
>> Right.
>> So not much engagement there. And in 2015, Instagram is just uh starting out. I've got no clue. Blogging on WordPress, no idea what that is. So I say, "Yeah, why don't I try LinkedIn?" Then it it worked. My first post has got 70 to 100 views about seven to 10 likes and to me that was amazing. Strangers reading my my post and my English wasn't very good and that was uh kind of a confirmation that maybe my content is good enough and that encouraged uh me to continue writing week after week. So for the last 10 years there isn't a week that I didn't post. So momentum, you you were really building up that momentum.
>> Momentum compounds for you. I'm guessing.
>> Number one is consistency because if you say I'll post when I have time or when I have ideas is very difficult because most of the time you got no ideas, you got no inspiration. But if you if you set it every Tuesday morning 7:45 I post, Monday night you start thinking. Yeah. And if you squeeze yourself, you think hard enough, there's something to post. So Eric, we've gone through so much your banking career, your time in the corporation to you starting out your own thing to you finding uh purpose in in what you how you spend the rest of your active time. For someone that is perhaps new,
>> you know, maybe fresh out of university, deciding how to invest the next 5, 10 years of their career, of their time. What advice would you give give to them? For early career professionals, I would say build relationship, accumulate your social capital because that is going to help you get job referrals. When you are admit to have a late career, you don't expect to get a job through job advertisement
>> or application, right? It's a waste of time, right?
>> Yeah. If because when you apply through a job ad chances are you're competing with a thousand people.
>> and this is what Eron is saying is is right now you read the newspaper you know there are some people who say I've applied 100 jobs you know I got laid off I app one job I didn't get it it's because they are going through the painful process of application but if they if they had invested and they had a good network they may not have to need to do this part right.
>> yeah how did I get my UBS job a colleague from city join UBS one day call me Hey, my boss looking for somebody like you. Do you want to join?
>> So I went for nine rounds of interview, I got the job and I also know a few people among the seniors and they instead of me applying for the job. They're trying to convince me.
>> I sign here join. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's the best position to be.
>> Then how do I get the job at city? A colleague from my first job DBS bank join city. Then one day he called me hey my boss looking for somebody like you. You want to join? So if you build your network then you will be able to get this uh job referrals and when somebody vouch for you you'll beat any CVs. He's not lying because the way I got my job in Google was also through a referral as well. And it's almost [clears throat] like if through a referral, the interview process is so smooth. You don't need to like actively prove yourself, right? Because the person at the opposite of the table already sort of heard of you.
>> and I have jobs that I've gotten before I submit my CV. You know, the hiring manager.
>> When you walk in, you already know that you got a good sense.
>> No, I I got no sense. I said, "Okay, let's have a chat." Then, you know, we have a chat. Then he said, "Okay, um later I'll get HR to uh talk to you and talk about the the comps." And by the way, when they ask for your CV, then just submit.
>> Wow.
>> You know, you can get jobs like that.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. So CV is actually not the most important. Your network is more important.
>> Well, Eric, we're almost at time. This is your book, Small Actions Leading Your Career to Big Success. Uh where can people find your book?
>> On Amazon, Kinonia, and um yeah, all good bookstores, I guess.
>> Okay. To stay in touch with Eric, please follow him on LinkedIn. Eric, thank you so much for your time. This was a pleasure. I hope you enjoy yourself as much as I did.
>> I enjoy myself totally. Thank you for having me.
>> Thank you. Cheers.
>> Thank you. This