Transcription
What does it actually mean to arrive? Not just to hit a goal, tick a box, or close a deal, but to genuinely feel like you've landed somewhere. Like the years of grinding, saving, sacrificing, and showing up actually added up to something real.
This is another episode of the Level Asian Podcast. Today, it's just an episode between the boys. And on the surface, the timing couldn't be better. David just got back from a trip in Dubai and Oman with me that had no business working as well as it did. Null just completed a quest in his life that he's been chasing for a long time. And somewhere in the middle of all of it, we ended up in a conversation none of us were expecting to have.
Because what happens when you finally get the thing you were working towards and you realize the version of you that was chasing it doesn't quite fit anymore. What do you do with the hustle when the hustle stops being the point? And why is it that moments that actually hit different lately look nothing like what any of us imagined we'd be celebrating at this stage of our life?
This one's a proper New Year reflection. There's no agenda, just three mates trying to figure it out what the next chapter looks like now that the hard part is done. Enjoy.
Before we get started on today's episode, we would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the land of the Dar people. We would like to acknowledge and pay respects to our elders past and present and the next generation coming through. Now onto today's episode.
You: Remember how like we were talking about this trip to Oman and Dubai?
Null: Yeah.
You: And I asked you I said, "Are you sure you want to go on this trip with a 4mon-old?" Cuz I remember telling Iris and she was like, "Are you sure?" Cuz it's like hard work.
Null: Yeah. Yeah. But did you did you find it harder than you expected or would you did you were you just like psychologically prepared and you were like okay I I like I knew it was going to be hard therefore it was hard and therefore it wasn't too bad.
You: I don't know man like I keep thinking I am sounding like a [ __ ] when I say this but it was actually it wasn't that hard.
Null: Oh wasn't that hard?
You: Yeah. Did you think it was hard?
Null: No you I was saying you guys made it look easy.
You: Yeah. I don't think we made it look easy. I think the baby made it look easy.
Null: Well she was good. She was very good. easy.
You: She was extremely good.
Null: Yeah. So, the reason um why we traveled was because one, I felt really bad for Shirley. Like, you know, she we usually travel every year >> and um she's stuck at home and she's been having like the >> FOMO. Yeah. She's been FOMOing a lot. Like I've been like out >> uh for networking and business stuff and as well as like catching up with friends for one or two hours >> and she's just stuck at home. >> Um yeah. So then I just felt let's just do a trip overseas somewhere with friends.
Null: But she was keen on the idea.
You: She was like iffy about it. She sat on it for quite some time and then I forced her to make a decision.
Null: Make a decision quickly.
You: Um but yeah like I told you the reason why we traveled with a 4mon old um baby was because one we were traveling with families. Everyone had kids. >> You and then also um you were organizing everything. We didn't have to organize a single thing. Y >> the only thing we were a bit against was that we're going to somewhere that we haven't really been to buy for example and it was expensive. >> So I was like looking at the price I was like ah [ __ ] it. You know what I'll just close my eyes and just click [laughter] and pay for everything. >> So but uh I think that was also a good thing as in we're going somewhere that we haven't been before. So it will be a new experience. Um yeah. So that's the main reason why we did it. and we really wanted to like put ourselves out of the comfort zone of being at home for like we've been at home for 4 months like straight like we didn't really do much at all. >> Um my brother was like why don't you travel to like Blue Mountains first and we just felt like [laughter] >> it's not really of an experience like and you kind of get bored if you go to Blue Mountains for like a week or two weeks or something like that. You need to go somewhere else. Yeah. >> So, yeah, that's why >> when I when I make decisions now when we decide to go places, I feel like I'm like collecting infinity stones of experiences because I know it's going to be hard. I know it's going to be tiring, but I'll still do it because I think that at the end of it, it's a good story. It's like good experiences. It's like you can look back on it as well.
Null: But at the at the time, like you saw me when we were traveling.
You: Yeah.
Null: How freaking annoyed I was at Hudson.
You: Yeah, man. Like, this guy should have you should have seen me, man.
Null: Just so no one knows, it was like a big uh contrast. Like we had our baby which was like an angel and then we had Hudson the devil. [laughter]
You: Hudson decided to play hideand seek at the airport.
Null: He's like where's Hudson? I'm like he was just there for like a moment ago. I don't know where he is.
You: We were we were about to board a flight but we went to get some food in the food court upstairs. And you know how like you call a bluff on like your kid. You're like man this guy if he walks too far away he's going to turn around when he can't see me when I'm not within eyesot and he'll come back. He didn't come back.
Null: What was he doing? But he he thought it was funny. Like this was only 2 days into the trip. I was already ready to lose my [ __ ] bro. I at him like I don't know what it was. Maybe it was jet lag or just tired or you know he was going through a phase, but >> oh man, it was it was hard.
You: I think it's a bit I I think it's some to do with like my personality as well cuz like I'm [ __ ]
Null: I'm [laughter] like [ __ ] Yeah. I'm playful and
You: that's true. Hudson's been really good every time we've traveled with him. Just us or social wave team.
Null: You haven't traveled with him for >> since retreat since.
You: Yeah. Yeah. That's that's been a while, man. like he's obviously he's different.
Null: The same thing happens with my brother's kid as well. Like so my niece like every time I'm in the picture, she just acts out a bit because I'm so playful and I always like mess around.
You: Yeah. Yeah. He thinks it's like she thinks it's fun, right?
Null: Yeah.
You: And so she wants to have fun too and then she just Yeah. plays out a bit.
Null: Yeah. That I mean I'm sure that has an impact. But I just think like he's three years old and he's just like he's a teenager. He's just like testing you.
You: Yeah. He just wants to play.
Null: He legitimately wants to like test my patience as well.
You: It's pretty funny though. Like it's like he would like act out and he'll purposely piss him off. And then I'm just looking at him. I'm like, [snorts] "We're in front of the public. There's people [laughter] around. Is he going to discipline?" And I'm like,
Null: "And I do."
You: Yeah. [laughter] At one point, it's like, "Oh, wow. He didn't discipline him yet." Okay. And then an hour later, the guy's crying. He keeps running back to his mom. And then everyone's looking and I'm like, "Damn, that kind of sucked the guilt." I don't think I don't look I I'm not someone who usually loses my temper that easily. Like I'm pretty I have very good like self-control. This guy knows how to push my buttons, man. Like every kid knows how to push their parents' button cuz they know them so well.
Null: Yeah. No, you're very nice and chilled and like pretty forgiving and all that stuff like so that's the first time I see you lose [ __ ] that much. But I'm curious on how you feel >> when the guilty feeling and also like doing it in public. How do you feel?
You: Cuz you have to sometimes.
Null: Okay. So, I'll give you an example, right? When we got off the plane in Dubai and he just like he just ran. We you know how like when everyone gets off the plane, it's just like chaos, right? And you're like, "Just hold my freaking hand. Once you get out the other side, you can run around, do whatever you want." He chose not to. He'd purposely like wriggle his way out of it. Like, he'd find ways to do that. So, he ran. He went for it. And then I went after him and he thought it was funny. So, he was laughing and running away from me, looking back behind me as if like, you know, he's like, "We're playing a game." And I wasn't playing a game. I was like I was yelling at him. I was like we got to come back. Finally got hold of him. He thought it was funny as [ __ ] and then like obviously disciplined him. At that point in time like when I'm at that level it's like red rag to a bull. Like you just don't give a [ __ ] about what's around you.
You: And he was like crying and cuz Iris plays like more good cop than bad cop. She's not the She just yells at him and nags him. But I'm like you don't see it coming, right? Like [laughter]
Null: Iris is just like a sponge, bro.
You: Yeah. She's a punching bag, man. She's a punch bag with him.
Null: She just absorbs it and she like gets annoyed, but she doesn't really do much about it as well. Whereas I'm the opposite. The good thing about Hudson is you do that to him and he's like back to normal within like 5 minutes.
You: Like he he doesn't remember [ __ ] He like he's a pest again in 5 minutes. [laughter]
Null: It's hard, man. Travel is so hard with kids.
You: You know what the ironic thing is? Come back home now.
Null: The guy's like way more chill. He's getting the right sleep. He's getting the right rest. He's like eating the stuff that he wants to eat.
You: He's like at home. He plays with all his toys. It's just like when you're traveling, you don't get that luxury. Like it does adult in. I imagine with kids it'd be like even worse.
Null: Yeah. Right.
You: That makes total.
Null: So I feel bad for him in that way, you know? Cuz
You: just to um not deter you from kids like it it's it's too [laughter] late.
Null: It's too late. But like I think it goes through stages. Like you you look at April like she was she just had the rhythm like every 2 to three hours she would go nap and then um she need to eat.
You: She was so good though. Yeah, she would um and then she would sleep throughout the night which was weird cuz she never did that in Australia. She still doesn't do it in Australia. She doesn't sleep throughout the night. I don't know what it was. I'm trying to replicate but I don't know what it is. Or maybe because we keep going out and she gets tired and she sleeps throughout the whole >> I think. So I think it's a lot of the >> the stimulation >> stimulation cuz the baby's stimulation at her age is not physical. It's visual.
Null: It's also I think the timing as well.
You: Yeah. They say it's easier to adjust to uh jet lag going west, which is back in time, versus east coming back home.
Null: Yeah. Coming back home was >> brutal. Was brutal for me. Yeah.
You: Yeah. She was sleeping at like 3:00 4:00 a.m. I think the first two days of work like I was sleeping like 3 4 hours um going to work and I was like, "Oh, this is how it feels like to have a kid." Now, [laughter]
Null: baby said to me at the end of the trip as I think it was near the end of the trip, he's like, "Yeah, next holiday it's going to be a resort." cuz he was like he knew like it was cuz it was tiring, man. Like you but you had to go on the trip to realize like what your what travel style you prefer and then also understand why parents prefer resorts cuz you have everything within like your fingertips.
You: Yeah. >> You don't have to go anywhere. There's no commuting.
Null: Yeah. But I'm also over that life, you know? It's not just the baby. I think I'm just like >> Oh, like the hopping around.
You: Yeah. Hopping around being so tired >> coming back and then you're not even relaxed yourself.
Null: Yeah. >> Unless I'm like focused to do it. I I just don't see the point. And I like I want to try a resort.
You: Well, what do you think of Dubai though?
Null: Dubai was good. Yeah, it was good.
You: I really like Dubai.
Null: I probably wouldn't live there. Dubai is kind of like out of this world. Everything is grand. Like if you you sit in this living room, it's like four times the size. Everything just looks bigger.
You: Everything's clean. It's got to a point where it's like it's probably too much.
Null: You can't see the negatives, which then >> it's too perfect.
You: Yeah, then you wonder like why you can't see negatives cuz you everywhere you go in the world there's always like good and bad whereas for some weird reason Dubai just doesn't have any
Null: I think it it it comes with age I think with travel style like I used to rough it out in a hostel >> and share a bunk bed with like 16 other people in the room. Never again. Like I'm I'm over 30 now and I would never do that. And like Japan's perfect for me cuz it's like everything's convenient, everything is clean, everyone's super polite and there's still a lot of character, you know? So, it's not probably as ideal perfect as Dubai, but it's perfect for me at this.
You: I don't know. There was something off about Dubai, though.
Null: Do you know what I'm talking about? Like, you go there. I like Dubai was nice. I really like the food was great. Like, I don't think pretty much didn't have >> I think it's because the different classes of um people like you noticeable.
You: Yeah, very noticeable. Like whereas in Singapore, Hong Kong, stuff like that, it's not really that noticeable. Like you go to a theme park and you know who's working and who's there for fun like you can tell and every every group has that dynamic.
Null: Yes. A mate of mine, this is Jason, a friend of like went to high school with us. He said the same thing. He's like you go there and you can tell >> who's the elites and then who's there to work.
You: Yeah. >> Yeah. Like it was like super obvious. Like when you go to the shopping center like Dubai Mall, >> it's like who's carrying the bags and who's there shopping.
Null: Yeah. Like literally you see people carrying bags and you see the other people having fun. So it's just like it's it's just not what we're comfortable and used to. Like it's probably in that lifestyle and you grew up like that it's completely normal. But for us it's just it's not.
You: Yeah. That felt off. But I think the other thing that felt off was just um >> I don't know maybe it's like the like the [snorts] amount of wealth that's out there.
Null: Obviously that's why there's a massive >> disparity is so obvious.
You: Yeah. Not not in terms of like that, but I'm just as in like visually um >> it's just too over the top.
Null: You look around and it's like G Wagons, Maseratis.
You: Did we tell you that like we were walking on the streets and we saw people mopping the streets?
Null: Like literally mopping the street with the physical physical. [laughter] Surely there's a better way to do that.
You: No, no, no, that's how much you know like >> we were like, "What the freak?" Like we've never seen someone mop the street before. Like this. And it's clean. Like it's so clean. like we we were there for nearly all rubbish.
Null: It's because people are so well behaved there. Um and that's probably why it's so good to like >> well behaved.
You: There's no alcohol.
Null: There's no alcohol.
You: Well, there is. You should tell your alcohol story.
Null: Oh, no. Yeah.
You: Can I Can I tell it?
Null: Yeah.
You: It's not bad. It's not a bad story. It's just It's how crazy the system is.
Null: Yeah. The system is crazy >> because like Dave was um >> drink. I didn't want to drink.
You: He didn't want to drink. He was like He's like, "I'm going to like I'm I'm going to be good. No one else is drink." He's like, "Does anyone else drink?" And I'm like, I'm pretty sure no one drinks, man. Like, >> so I was just like, yeah, let's not drink. And then >> uh you know how um Australia's like >> 7 hours ahead.
Null: 7 hours ahead. So like we're getting phone calls from Australia already going like, you know, what are you guys doing for New Year's? It's 10:00. They're all drunk. And I'm like, damn, I'm fomoing hard. He's [laughter] like, I need a beer, man.
You: It's like 12:00 right now, midday. I'm like, I'm fomoing hard. [laughter] So I was like, you know what? Let's just go and try to get a drink, get some alcohol. We get a six-pack with enough something small. We go to the alcohol store and there's a massive line during the year.
Null: It's like the only one in the area as well. So, everyone must have gone there >> because in Dubai you can't like locals can't drink. It's more for tourists.
You: So, you know how everything in Dubai is grand? Their bottle shops are small as hell.
Null: Small. Yeah, [laughter] they're like the opposite.
You: It's complete opposite. Um anyway, so we we line up. It takes like half an hour. get to the uh front of the queue, pick up our goods, go to the counter. The guy's like, "Uh, can you show us your license?" And I thought it was just like a normal like license.
Null: Your driver's license.
You: Yeah. But it wasn't a driver's license. It was a alcohol license.
Null: You have to have a a license to buy alcohol there.
You: Yeah. So, we're like, "Ah, we don't have one." And then he's like, "Oh, yeah. You just have to register um online." So, the system's completely like messed up. Anyway, so we have all these like tourists trying to register on account >> and because I think it's New Year's Eve, it's peak season of buying alcohol.
Null: So the whole system crashed. So we could >> requested the server just >> Hey, but the details was he really wanted the alcohol. [laughter] So I could tell he was like he was like standing there. He was like patient. I've never seen this guy be so patient in my life. He was like patiently waiting for like the website to load.
You: I know. I'm like it's just turning. It's [laughter] >> just it's like there's nothing happening. There's no progress. How long was this queue? Like if you had to estimate how many people.
Null: We were there for like a whole hour. The girls are like calling me >> like where are you?
You: Yeah. Shirley was calling me and going like, you know, um do do I have no time to like breastfeed? Can I just feed like April? And then like I was hanging up on her because I'm trying to bloody register the [laughter] account. So she kept trying to call me and she's messaging me and I'm like I'm trying to freaking register this account and get alcohol. Just leave me alone. Give me a second. So yeah. Anyway, it was just like stressful [laughter] moment. We didn't end up getting alcohol and we gave up on that which was a good thing anyway. I think um >> it was pretty tame for New Year's Eve anyway.
Null: You want to be the only person drinking though in the group out of parents and kids.
You: We just wanted a six-pack. He would have had a drink.
Null: I would I would have had a drink with him but >> just just to have one drink and like honestly like it was because I was I knew I was going to get tired. Um looking after a kid is tiring as hell.
You: We're still jetlagged as well.
Null: Yeah, we're jetlagged as hell.
You: Yeah, cuz it was only like the second day >> and then you were thinking that drinking alcohol actually make me sleepy. Yes, it does. But it actually delays the sleepiness I think for the first 2 to 3 hours of drinking alcohol. So do >> that push.
Null: Yeah. >> So I was like I'll start drinking like practively at 10:00 and then I should be able to last at like till midnight.
You: But just so you know, we were hella tired and we didn't even we didn't stay at Vin's place. We left at like 10:00 p.m.
Null: cuz like everyone was just like dead cuz that would have been like what 5:00 a.m. in Sydney.
You: Yeah. It's crazy. Like as a as a kid you would always want to stay up to 12:00 and you would you won't sleep. You won't you don't want to sleep. But now as a parent, it makes sense.
Null: You just want to go to bed.
You: You just want to go to bed. Like it's just the 9:00 fireworks >> makes sense.
Null: It makes so much sense.
You: How was uh how was your New Year's?
Null: Uh it was all right. Same old same old, you know, play games with some friends, had some drinks, >> watch the fireworks on TV.
You: Yeah. Last year we actually went down to see the fireworks in like Balain. So we went down to like harbor. It was packed. It was packed everywhere, but we had some friends overseas from Canada. So, it kind of was a good excuse to get out and actually see Sydney cuz I hadn't like I would never bother going out to see fireworks like in years like unless there was someone here. So, that was good. But, uh this year was chill.
Null: Um yeah, mainly just dealing with moving houses. So, that was >> Do you prefer chill like New Year's or like >> No, I prefer chill.
You: Hang out with friends.
Null: Yeah. I mean, look, the firework it was great to be like to see them live, but it's just coming back and is a massive crowd.
You: Yeah, man. The going home is the worst.
Null: Going home is the absolute You ever done the fireworks? I did it when I was a kid >> and then going home.
You: Yeah, it takes like 3 hours to get home. I >> was talking to my brother about it and I was like, "Oh, going to Dubai reminds me of like with my kid reminds me of like back in the day with my family and and L was my oldest brother. He was like, "Yeah, that were [ __ ] times. [laughter] I was >> traumatized from it."
Null: But me as a kid, I was like, "That were the best times ever." Like, and he's like, >> and then looks at me like that growing up in BA, you don't need to go to the city to see fireworks.
You: Yeah, true. Yeah, 100%.
Null: Just go to the park. [laughter]
You: Yeah, it was >> you know why >> it's funny how when you're a kid like your recollection of like your memories so different from like you know the adults.
Null: So my brother was older and he was like man every time we go to New Year's was the worst thing ever. Like the crowd >> you know mom and dad would just drop off drop us off at like the game arcades and just leave us there for like hours and they will go missing. >> really? Yeah. Yeah. They would go missing.
You: And what? Your brother would be the one to watch you guys.
Null: Yeah. >> So he hated it cuz like he had to be the parent. My parents would just go off doing their thing which was not good. Obviously >> we didn't have mobile phones at that time. So like my brother had to figure out how to find my parents.
You: Can air tag you.
Null: Yeah. So like technology wasn't as good. So my brother hated it. And then he would just remind me on how [ __ ] New Years was. And I was like, "Wow, >> I don't remember that at all. I remember the movies. I remember the arcades. I remember the food. I remember. And he's like, "Don't you remember the 3-hour trek back?" And I was like, "Nah, I probably was sleeping." [laughter]
You: Yeah, I was going to say you're probably asleep, man.
Null: It's crazy. It's crazy the difference how kids see it and like how adults see it.
You: Do you guys miss your travel style before you guys had kids? Cuz obviously you can't ever go back to that now.
Null: I miss the flexibility of it. The fact that you can't now go on your time schedules is based on your kids' time schedule. That's like the hardest thing.
You: 100%.
Null: Who would not miss like the flexibility?
You: Who would miss Who would not miss going where they want when they want on their time schedule, right?
Null: For the love of your kid.
You: No. [laughter]
Null: Cuz like every time we plan, oh yeah, we're leaving at 9:00 or leaving at 8. We're [laughter] >> running joke. Shirley goes Shirley goes, can we aim to go a little bit earlier, like 6:30 instead of 7:00? I'm like, "Well, aim for 6:30, but we'll go up at 7 anyway." So, like, what's the difference anyway? And she by the end of it, she was like, "Okay, aim for 6:30, go at 7:00. Aim for 6:30, go at 7:00." It was like a running thing always just gets delayed.
You: No one everyone the kids delay you >> when we don't have a plan. It's like it's not even like it's like 3 hours behind. It's like 11:00 or something like that.
Null: Massive. Massive.
You: It's crazy.
Null: Also, there was a lot of kids on this trip. Did they all get along or I know there were different age groups? I >> I don't think the kids hung out that much because the first few days we'd like been and stuff, but then afterwards they were doing their own thing. We went to Oman for like a week as well. So, it was just like our two families. But like April doesn't interact with Hudson the same. Although Hudson was very sweet.
You: Yeah, Hudson was very sweet.
Null: He's a [ __ ] devil around Everybody else except for April. When he's around April turns into an angel.
You: He was like a Yeah, he was so sweet. He kind of got on my nerves. [laughter]
Null: Do you know why? Cuz I was just like, man, I was super protective. I was like, what are you trying to What are [laughter] you trying to do? Keep >> his sticky fingers away from Are you like trying to flirt with my my daughter? Like it was too sweet. He'd walk up to her and be like, "A" and then like play peekab-boo and [ __ ] on my phone.
You: He was like, I didn't teach him any of this, but >> Yeah. No, he was like, "Oh, April's so cute." I'm like, "Can you stop calling my [laughter] my daughter?"
Null: Wait, you have you would have an issue if you're if April married Hudson.
You: No, it's just like I'm just not used to it. Like, I'm like like I I don't know how to react.
Null: I'm still trying to like figure that [ __ ] out. Like, I'm still new to this stuff. But hypothetically, like 20 years down the track, if your kids got married, would you guys >> be a trip? That'd be like go from >> I I I guess it just depends on his personality. If he's a good guy, then like Yeah, sure. If he's >> if he's kind of a womanizer, I don't know.
You: Yeah. If he's going to hurt my baby's like, you know, [laughter] oh my god. Like, I don't know how to react.
Null: Honestly, I don't even know, man.
You: Yeah. [laughter] Be careful. That's a That's a 20 year problem right there.
Null: I think maybe when I get older, I'll just be like, you know what? I'd rather not know until >> I don't think it's something you worry about now anyway, right? Like yeah, you worry about it 20 years down the track. I don't know what we're doing 20 years.
You: I think like yeah to answer your question, I definitely will be cut, but like it is what it is. [laughter]
Null: Although can I say like with five So I think we were talking about in the car coming in from Dubai or wherever we were. We sit in the car and I was just saying 5 years ago was co uh you your business was like 2 years old and you like it was just finally getting off the ground. No. 5 years ago it was like 5 years old. [laughter]
You: What do you mean?
Null: My my business is 10 years this year.
You: Oh, is it 10 years?
Null: Yeah.
You: Oh, okay. So, it was much further along.
Null: But still, >> but still it was like kind of >> it wasn't it wasn't fully established, right?
You: It wasn't that took like a gap year as well, bro.
Null: Yeah. I was I was traveling. I was going on holidays. I was taking breaks. I was playing golf.
You: So, it was like when you seriously like >> it was really more focused in >> like it felt a little bit startup vibe still, right?
Null: So, the ABN was registered 10 years ago. [laughter] The business didn't start till about seven.
You: So we So that was 5 years like him 5 years ago and then for us 5 years ago was pretty much just like >> just started.
Null: April April 2020.
You: Oh, you're still working for me at that time >> I think. So >> yeah.
Null: Yeah. I think just coming back from overseas.
You: So this was what 2021, right? Which is when social work started in 2020.
Null: 2020. April. Yeah.
You: Yeah. So so about a year into the business or not even a year like six months into the business. And I'm like, how crazy is it that we're sitting in a Mercedes VC class, which was like the Uber that we took, uh, and in Dubai for the world's biggest creator summit with Vin Jang and also going on holiday with >> We just saw Mr. Beast.
Null: We just saw Mr. Beast. Yeah.
You: We just saw like all these like massive people and we're just like, "Wow, this is crazy." [laughter]
Null: Yeah. Five years, man. Five like five freaking years. It's freaking crazy.
You: Yeah. >> And I'm like, "Well, what what does the next five years look like?" Basically, right? if we keep going the way we're going as well. I don't know. But it's cool like it's cool to think about it that way cuz 5 years it feel it feels way longer than 5 years at least for me anyway.
Null: And also like uh people in Dubai wanted us to migrate over to Dubai like so we felt wanted [laughter]
You: did Shirley but did Shir like Dubai?
Null: Um >> what was her thoughts on Dubai?
You: Shy liked it. Yeah, she enjoyed or she enjoyed as a trip. She didn't enjoy it as a place to live like >> she wouldn't live here like her she was just in mum mode the whole time. But she really enjoyed it. She enjoyed the like the memories we were created. Went to zoo, went to shopping centers, we went to like >> um >> food was good.
Null: Yeah, we went to Oh man, we went to all these weird places.
You: Yeah, which is pretty cool.
Null: Yeah. What was the food like there?
You: It's kind of like Sydney to be honest.
Null: Yeah, it's an international city.
You: International uh city with all these different cuisines, >> but just no pork.
Null: That's why I can't live in Dubai. There's no pork, man.
You: No bug be. Yeah.
Null: Yeah. Literally, man. Or even uh you go eat um you eat like things that should have pork in it and they substitute with chicken. It's not the same, man.
You: But there sometimes it actually tastes better. Like it actually tastes pretty good. Like those um >> which ones?
Null: Those dumplings we had the um Oh yeah.
You: The fried dumplings with And it's, you know, you usually have pork in. Yeah.
Null: Yeah. Usually have pork in it, but then they did it with beef and it tasted pretty good.
You: That tasted pretty good.
Null: Yeah. >> But I can't eat lamb forever, man. There was so I was lambed out by the end of it. There was so much lamb. [laughter] God damn.
You: I was talking to my mates about this. Like they were like asking me how the food was the Mediterranean food like the um you know the Lebanese food and all that stuff like that. And I think we we [ __ ] up.
Null: What's not as good here in Australia is there?
You: It was just too good. They tasted [laughter] so bloody >> benchmark too high. Like Jasmine one was our benchmark. So we're comparing everything with Jasmine one.
Null: Yeah. And it [laughter] was Dude, it was so good. Like >> did they have legit Asian chefs in the kitchens?
You: Yeah, 100%. Yeah. A lot of Filipinos.
Null: Okay.
You: Filipinos. Yeah.
Null: Yeah. But anyway, let's let's see what else we got.
You: Um, >> should we talk about property? Cuz you know, null b. Congrats, my man.
Null: Oh, yes. >> We're gone.
You: Enjoying our lives. You were moving in. [laughter]
Null: I was moving in. Yeah. I was packing, leaving my old apartment behind.
You: Moving in.
Null: Finally got the house.
You: Finally got a house after a year of searching.
Null: Yeah, we're filming right now in the house >> with [laughter] a lot of sunlight.
You: Yeah, there's a lot of natural light, which is great. So, can you I'm actually curious the property inspection and then the auction, right? Property inspection. How um competitive was it when you came in?
Null: There was quite a fair few people. Yeah, for sure. Um this area is always quite popular, especially with families or like couples that are >> nice like a quiet street.
You: Yeah, it's quite um >> football park on the other side.
Null: Yeah, it's quite a lot of space actually like three bedrooms. Yeah, there was a lot of people. Uh, and I was trying to settle I was trying to sus it out and see if they had offers already and I kind of overheard the agent and I kind of knew what the benchmark or at least what they were saying what the benchmark was. Oh yeah. So all of this happened where like this whole year I was I started with preapproval in like January 2025. The whole year I was searching and as I was searching the market changed so much that I had to keep getting like getting increased my budget [laughter] over time. I probably increased my budget like three times. Um, so this was like the final stretch where I was like, "This is about as far as I could stretch my budget without like without putting myself in like >> You gave up a bit too. You took a bit of a break.
Null: I took a bit of a break. I was a bit maybe in like Q3 I was like a little bit like unmotivated.
You: Yeah.
Null: Yeah. July to like September. I was like, "What the heck? I don't hear much of that anymore."
You: Yeah. Like it was I was just like overpocused on work and just life and stuff like that. I was like I think around like October once I came back with having a baby obviously.
Null: Um I was like no.
You: Yeah. You gave me a kick up the ass.
Null: I [laughter] was like come on man.
You: Yeah because I was just thinking I know there was just this weird vibe that I was feeling. I was like man I I had a kid. I'm looking around going everyone needs to do something. [laughter] Everyone needs to hit their goals. So I was just like let's focus on null. I was like >> yeah became your project. [laughter] I was I was pushing no to have a find a um a a property. Yeah.
Null: So then you went you started going back on inspection.
You: Yeah. Well, basically Yeah. Once we figured out the finances side um went back to inspection. So I literally like just got my final like my final pre-approval and then went to this inspection like a week after and then I tried to settle before I went to auction cuz auction was in two weeks and they weren't having it. They still wanted to go to auction.
Null: Um yeah cuz they were like why not? So, um I knew that the other unit cuz this is a compound of six town houses >> and I knew how much the front unit went for and that was worth a bit more like they have another parking space.
You: Yeah. Yeah. So, I kind of like had a good ballpark about like how much I wanted to spend >> uh what my cap was and then luckily on auction day I got it.
Null: Yeah. >> Yeah. It wasn't >> How many were you committing?
You: Did you Did you offer Sorry, one more last question. Did you offer before more than what you >> honestly like at by that point I was like you know what I don't want to just do this haggle dance like I I know what a fair price for this is and this is the fair price and this is what I'm offering and that's all I'm going to offer right and then didn't take it and then on auction I ended up like getting the bid with that same price anyway exactly the same price >> exactly the same price yeah and I was like dude I'm not going to go higher than this anyway did your one pass in >> no >> yeah pass in is basically didn't reach the reserve and then they had to negotiate behind So, they got over the reserve price and then they were happy to sell it to you basically.
Null: Oh, wow.
You: Damn. It's pretty good, man.
Null: It's a nice place, man. It feels new. Is it freshly painted or something?
You: Yeah, they would have painted it before.
Null: You got food here, by the way. You got food [laughter] stains here.
You: That's That wasn't me. They clearly didn't have paint over that.
Null: You can tell he already lives here. [laughter] He's got food stains on.
You: I don't eat on the couch, man. I'm I'm still precious about everything.
Null: I don't know why you got food stains on. [laughter] But anyway, that's good. That's good. Yeah. And then and then moving in took what a couple of weeks.
You: Yeah, a couple of weeks cuz I was still working. I was still working and I went into the office most of the days. Yeah. So it was just packing, decluttering, and ordering a lot of new furniture. That's what took time.
Null: So now that uh you don't have any goals anymore like >> Yeah, I'm done. This is it.
You: That's it. [laughter] Nothing else?
Null: No, I'm good.
You: No, no, no, I'm kidding. Like Yeah, I mean, it's I got to pay off a mortgage for 30 years. Pay this thing off >> financially. We're talking life here.
Null: Yeah, you've been talking about buying a house for ages. Now, now you bought a house.
You: Now you've got the house. You can't you can't say you've been talking [laughter] you can't talk about buying a house anymore.
Null: That's true. I got to find something else.
You: It's definitely not children. Uh I still haven't changed my stance on that.
Null: Lady [laughter] at least.
You: Yeah, lady. Sure. Why not?
Null: Whatever you want.
You: They give me anything. [laughter]
Null: I don't know. Yeah, that's probably the next step, I guess. Um Yeah. Look, I bought a house. I had to grind for 5 years and like raw dog having fun because it was just like no fun. It was just saving. Some of that was a choice though, didn't it?
You: No. No.
Null: Did you have to raw dog it?
You: No, you didn't.
Null: You didn't have to raw dog.
You: It got me that quicker though. I had to.
Null: It did.
You: I had to be disciplined.
Null: You're very disciplined.
You: Yeah. Yeah.
Null: Yeah. >> But you didn't have to be that disciplined. [laughter]
You: I guess so. Because of the price.
Null: Yeah. It got me. It could be traveling. That could be a thing. I'm definitely doing more travel.
You: You just you pull back on spending money.
Null: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Like I didn't travel for fun in 3 years. Like I traveled for work, but it's not the same.
You: Yeah%.
Null: And I prefer to just switch off. Like I can't do both.
You: I guess he's in that phase of just like, "Yep, I've done it. I made it. Now I just need to enjoy my time of doing nothing a little bit. Is that what it is?"
Null: Yeah, I mean, like definitely more travel going to Japan in 2 months. So that's going to be good.
You: Yeah. No crazy goals or anything like that.
Null: Yeah. >> What's the end goal for you? Is it Is this end goal? Is this end game?
You: This is more just like next stage of my life. Thinking about my future, retiring my mom, uh having an investment that's going to grow at some stage. Your mom is retired, right? Right.
Null: Semi-retire. Like she doesn't have to work if she doesn't want to. She's only kind of just working now cuz, you know, she wants to be active and do stuff.
You: But I think financially it sounds like I don't know what the mortgage repayments are on this thing, but it' be a decent chunk.
Null: Yeah. It's a big chunk.
You: Yeah. >> That's the other thing. It's just like I got to I can't just go and splurge all the time. Like I have a lot more financial responsibility either.
Null: Yeah. >> Yeah.
You: Cuz like like my mindset changed when I bought a place. I realized I I kind of had a bit of regret. I was just like maybe I should have just >> reinvested >> rented somewhere because rent is like 2% to in in Sydney like it's 2% of u the property price right >> so but when you um buy a place it's like 6% 7% interest >> so if you found a property it doesn't have to be in Sydney but somewhere else um like in a different state that just grew in value 8% 10% a year or like close to it you're actually making more money by investing in that property paying 6% interest but it going up like say 8% a year >> in total veil of the property >> net growing and then you renting 2% of a a place where you want to live and you don't have to rent a place big piece of land you can just rent a place that's close to the city >> where would you live though would you not live where you are living now >> if I was rent vesting I'll probably live closer to the city yeah >> yeah I was thinking that too like either maybe northern beaches or even like inner west >> I wouldn't go beachy areas because I don't like beach but Yeah, but And what I get the point of buying as well. I still have like Asian blood in me which means like I just want a place to like a nest.
Null: Yeah. Your own place, right?
You: Yeah. So I still enjoy that. Um >> just find a Mrs. that doesn't treat everything like a [ __ ] bedroom. Like [laughter] >> here we go.
Null: What else do I got to look out for? [laughter]
You: Dude, when I moved in here, I did not have enough stuff. I felt like I was cuz I went from one bedroom to three bedroom, but everything I had was so small. So, I had to get more stuff to fill the space. But
Yeah, I don't know. Just get a girlfriend and you'll fill it [laughter] right away. Yeah. Go straight to moving in together. Yeah.
But I don't know about you guys. I feel like the last two, I'm going to say two years, I felt more, I don't want to say financially stable, but because the, I feel like the business has become more established and by being more established, I felt more stable. And then obviously get in the house and then like everything's like kind of tied together and feels quite. I think it's because of the hard work is finally paying off and that's a good way to put it.
Yeah. And it's kind of like how you're actually starting to harvest some of the seeds you planted in the early days and the hustle culture that you had previously. It's it's finally worked because you kind of hustle forever.
Well, he's still hustling. He's hustling.
No, I'm done. I'm over it. [laughter]
I think. No, I think I should pull back. Cuz you know why? I get the notifications of when he like leaves and arms it and I'm like, "Oh, it's getting earlier." [laughter] Hey, he's mellowed out. Sometimes I'm the last person.
Yeah, I leave before he like. He's usually leaving after me. It's because I just came back and I have so much work. That's why I had to like deal with it.
But I, I also think, you know, at least in marketing, you know, we talk about like recently just focusing more on like ads, not to turn this into a marketing discussion, but like I feel like that was like the missing piece in the jigsaw. And like you put that last piece in, the whole picture's complete. Now we feel very like we feel like we have control over everything, you know, both for our businesses but even for like client success and things like that as well, like being a client as well. But it's like.
And that's why I say like in business, like it's sometimes the right way of thinking is just being longer in business so you can just try different things.
Literally staying in business, basically. Right? Yeah, I agree.
Yeah. And and the problem is that like people look at social media and they think that like you need to make a million dollars in like one year, two years, three years or whatever it is.
And then exit. Yeah. Or exit or then you had to grow the business even more. But right now, like we're at a stable situation, like we're not chasing and, punching above our weight. We're not like trying to um live above our means.
We're just living and being comfortable and traveling, like, you know, we're not, we're not overspending. We're not going like buying a Lamborghini or doing all these crazy things.
Um, that would mean that we had to work harder.
Sensible about it, basically. That's probably why.
Yeah. It's not that we don't have pressure. I still feel pressure, but like not a bad kind of pressure where you're like trying to keep the lights on, but like a good kind of pressure where it's like, okay, well, I still need to pay for a mortgage, you know, like you might want to live in a nicer area eventually and like these kind of more aspirational pressures as opposed to fear-based pressure, which is like, [ __ ] like how are we going to.
It's because we're maturing. Like I think when we were in our 20s, like survival mode. 30s, we're just like, let's live life a bit.
It's just our our mindset.
But you still have to have the financial means to do that though.
Yes. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, of course. It's like we're making a lot more money than what we used to be making when we're 20.
But it's just that's just life, mate. But the worst part is think about our parents. Our parents when they were 30s, still wasn't even making that much money.
True.
Like whereas like. True.
We're very different.
I, I remember when my dad was what, 35, I would have been 16.
They probably took a step back traveling, like living over.
My parents hadn't done a vacation through my whole high school life. I'd never been on vacation with my family. The only time I went overseas was to go see family in China.
Exactly. That's what I'm saying, man.
It's crazy how when you look back and we should be more grateful about it because right now.
Like, you know, people asking me like, you know, how's life and how's things and I'm like, dude, so grateful.
I'm very happy.
Yeah, I'm very happy.
Yeah. Especially when you hear about like some of the issues that everyone's facing like with.
Yeah. Like just like seeing all those small things that now.
Yeah. But is that because you think you anchor yourself against where you came from?
Yeah. Right. You always remind. Cuz I do that like like what I said, 6 years ago, 5 years ago.
I was like making less than $20,000 a year.
Yeah.
Now I'm like making whatever, multitudes of that and I'm like very, very happy.
100% man. Like back then I, I used to cry about having to take public transport to get to somewhere because it takes 40 minutes to an hour to get there. I have to wake up early just to plan my my trip. And then I would always miss the train anyway and I would just stress about like being late to work all the time.
Now.
I just wake up whenever the hell I want. If I'm late to work, I'm late to work. I'll just stay back a bit and I get to drive to the place I go and.
Choose to take a day off, you take a day off.
You also owe the place you go to.
Yeah. Yep. [clears throat]
So like it's it's I got to be grateful, man. Compared to what I was saying like I, I, I agree like the same as like when um, you know, Iris gets really upset about some minutiae. Just like it's like why are we getting worked up about it? It's not even worth the like energy, the negative energy to fixate on this thing. It's like look at all the good stuff that we have, like why not saying that she's complaining all the time, but it's like this is just an example because I catch myself sometimes.
Yeah, I do the same. Exact same thing.
Focusing on like dumb [ __ ] and then then I have to like anchor myself and be like, is this really worth the negativity of it? It's actually not.
Y.
Because it's pretty good. [snorts] To most people.
Yeah, totally agree. There's also like I've been thinking about like stages in life right now and like I'm trying to like evolve into the next stage. I think in my 20s I was like going for cheap thrills, fast experiences, like massive dopamine hits, whether it's like drinking Friday night drinks or going to parties and going to festivals and all stuff like that. Like just really experiencing highs. Yeah.
And now I'm what I find that I'm really enjoying in life is.
Waking up at 6:00 a.m. to play basketball with my mates and playing cards at nighttime with my mates and obviously enjoying time with my family and my kid.
They like the things that I'm really enjoying. There's so much commitment to it. I had to wake up at bloody 5, 6 a.m. I had to sleep earlier at nighttime or catch up with mates, but no drinking, just chilling and just playing cards. Like it's crazy how like my life has completely changed and.
But that's that's because I, I came to the realization, I think this was like maybe 6 or 12 months ago, especially like as Hudson got older that um the, it sounds cliche, but it's like the, the joy, the joys in life or the happiness that you're looking for is not in where your the achievements that you have. They're important, but actually in just the boring [ __ ] that you do every day. Because if you can find that enjoyable, then you're living a really, really good life. Most people fixate on what's what they haven't achieved and what gap there is to fill. Whereas if you just go, this, I've already got this and this is what I'm happy about. That like immediately changes like the mindset around how enjoyable life is as well. Like there's all these like little things, man. I have my own home.
You got your time back.
Yeah.
I think that's changes everything.
Balance is the next challenge. [laughter]
Control and time back. Yeah.
Right. Because man, when we were like 20 or 18, we'll just.
We did have time. That's why we enjoy. I reckon when we were like 15 all the way till like, well, even younger, like all the way to probably about like 20, we had a lot of time because we didn't have much money, so we just had time to enjoy life and then we had to go into the whole responsibilities of making money.
Don't you think it's a mix of everything though? It's like a you have your time back which you gave a bit of it away to make the wealth.
Not a bit, like [ __ ] everything.
Okay. [laughter] You gave a good chunk of it away, but then you also have the now the financial means to enjoy the time.
And then on top of that, you have independence and autonomy because in your 20s, you either like live at home or you're renting. Now you own your home. Like for us, we have our own businesses.
Yeah.
We have our own kids.
Yep. Yeah, 100%. Type.
I feel like you're taking like you're trying to get back what you had when you're kid, like which is all that time and you're just trying to find the things that you're really wanting to do, which is like, for example, Noah just wants to be at home playing games. Like you see all the game consoles behind you. I literally just had friends over like yesterday. We were just playing like four-player co-op like we did when we were teenagers with like alcohol and I was like, "Yeah, this is good." Like.
This is good [ __ ] right?
Good [ __ ] Like little moments. And obviously you can't do it as much when you were as when you were teenagers.
Working. Yeah. When.
When you were younger.
Not teenage, say like 25 days. Yeah. After uni, after uni, you were just so focused on working your butt off. Yeah. To make it in the world. But whenever you can fit those moments in just for like those moments of simplicity and like nostalgia, it's it's good.
It's insane, right? Like.
Back then when I was like all the way from like year 7 all the way to year 12, we used to play cards like during lunch and recess and play basketball.
And literally that's that's what I'm still doing. Like [laughter]
But you, but you didn't value your time during that time, right?
Yeah. I didn't value my like Well, I had so Yeah, I didn't value my time because I had so much time. If I could just go and have slow burn time and slow dopamine hits like that, like slowly um, you know, make me happy rather than like it makes me happy straight away.
Like over time I just realized, wow, I'm very happy because I get to play basketball and I see the improvements. I get to kick my whoop my friends' asses in in cards.
And now I'm like doing.
His wife calling. [laughter] Just to win card games. It's so funny, bro. Like, it's like every week it just goes back and forth playing like we're us, who's winning and who's not and it's just that's just the joy of life, right? But I think we're very lucky that we kind of realize that because a lot of people don't realize that people just get stuck in the um rat race, you know, and the wheel where they just keep running and they keep chasing and then it's never enough and because the.
The goalposts keep moving.
Yeah, it keeps moving for sure. We had a friend that we when we went on a trip together and I asked him like.
What's your goal, man? Like why, why do you keep chasing?
Just enjoy it. Like why don't you just slow down, stop working as much and just focus on what you're what you enjoy? And he just said to me that like he's scared of losing all the money.
Oh, you say that?
Yeah. He said he's just scared. He's and he's changed his goalposts like three times.
Y.
He doesn't know when he's off, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that's the problem, right? We keep chasing it. We keep needing to budget. We keep needing to invest. We keep needing to be successful.
But when's it enough?
There's never enough.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's enough for me, man. I'm good.
Yeah. Exactly. Which is.
You're very good at identifying what's enough.
Yeah. That's why when you said to me like when you said just then like um, you know, there's nothing, there's nothing else I need.
It's the message is balance. Just more, just like spend more time with people I care about and love. Take better care of myself, not work too much, but still, you know, be okay there.
And the business, let the business run itself and have more trust in my team to take over stuff and then like I'm good.
Yeah, 100%. Like I have a client like I'm, I run an accounting firm. Uh, he retired like I think last year.
Sold his business, tens of millions. Yeah.
It was a good exit.
Good exit. But he's been working there for like his whole life.
Okay.
Like close to his 70s, right? M.
Just before he was selling the business, he just became angry. Angry about paying taxes, angry about talking to me, angry about every, angry at the buyer, angry at everyone, just angry at his employees. He's just constantly angry. I was like, "Man, just chill out, man. Like, chill out and just enjoy your life, man. Like, you don't have to think about all this stuff anymore."
You've worked your ass off. You don't want to be constantly angry. Anyway.
I found out he had cancer after this year.
Oh, [ __ ]
Right. That's why.
That mindset of like not realizing early enough and now he's just going to deal with this now.
Man, I, I've been doing a lot of reflecting this year and I was like, man, how did I get to this point?
Like I think what I did when I was young, like when I was like 15 all the way to um, I was 30. I kind of kept projecting what my future was like and I kept looking at it as being very dull. I need to pay off my parents' mortgage. I need to help my brothers. I needed to help like, you know, provide for family before I could even start my own my own family.
And so.
It was always so negative.
And so therefore, I focused on like hustling so hard.
And now because I hustled so hard, I kind of need to stop thinking about money and just focus on a living. And I'm trying to change my mindset a lot. This this especially.
Not focus on making money as much for more and enjoying.
Yeah. And and the reason why we took a break was that was my focus. Cuz I was like, man, I need to start having like start the next stage of my life, which is start a family and.
Focus on like spending more time with Shirley. And I'm married now. I need to like actually like be there, be be present cuz Shirley was hinting that I wasn't present all the time.
Well, I think kids will force you to. Exactly. When gets older.
Yeah. And I was always in that mindset of like work my ass off, burn myself out.
Then focus on like, you know, all these cheap dopamine hits.
And just not really understand what reality is. Like I just focus on just working, working, working and not care about my emotions, which was.
I think it was just a recipe for disaster. So, but it really helped me achieve what I got. You don't regret it. I don't regret it.
But I think that was also a great thing where I just like go looking 5 years in advance. This is where I'm going to be. Um, this is where I want to be. So, I got to work my ass off. And I did that. I gave away like my five to 10 years of like 20s to live like that. Um, yeah, sure, I had some balance. Like, I still traveled. I still like um uh hung out with friends and all that stuff like that, but then it really got me somewhere. And now I'm scaling it back completely.
I just want to focus on hanging out with friends and family and um uh stop thinking about money.
Yeah. Yeah, time is so much more precious now that you're older than buddy.
Yeah. Focusing on my health as well, just in case so I can extend the time.
Just in case something happens to me. Like I'm always fre like, you know how our friend is scared of um losing all everything.
I'm scared of dying.
Yeah, me too.
Yeah.
I'm scared of just dropping dead.
Yeah.
Cuz that's the only thing that will stop me now.
Yeah, pretty much.
Yeah. There's no, there's no, anything. It's just like literally your health.
Yeah, because I hear it's I came back, man. There's just so many people like, you know, that I thought were going to live ages that just passed away recently. Yeah, it's crazy.
You and it'll get more frequent, I reckon, the older we get as well. Cuz I think that's like that was like a a bit of a wakeup call for me.
And also just like, you know, when it's like close to home with like family and stuff, it like makes it even more um real now as well. So yeah, I, I'm the same, man. So now I'm just I'm like saying yes to [ __ ] as long as it's like fun. I'm just going to do it.
I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out around it.
Yeah.
Yeah. Because otherwise you always fill up that time with work anyway and it wasn't until because maybe because of Christmas and stuff when we were traveling and also the time zones I was saying no because it was 7 hours difference like these guys had to deal with it whilst I wasn't there.
It was like for the first time cuz usually I travel to Asia where.
I was like, oh, I actually am not really working. Like I didn't even Iris was like shocked. She was like, wow, you didn't actually work.
Yeah, I'm not working as much as well.
It's yeah, it's it's just like you're going to get to the end goal anyway, like what.
It's how fast you get there.
Yeah, it's how fast you get there. Like I explained it to um actually, I explained to all my clients now and I said to him like, I could double or triple the business in the next couple years.
Yeah.
But I've been an accountant for 18 years now. Well, I've seen which clients are happier and I found that the clients are happier at the end of the day like is when they're running a family business where the family's tied into it or they've got great staff or employees that they consider family.
And they've been doing it for 10, 15, 20 years.
The same thing. Yeah.
The same thing. And they just the best at it, but they're not chasing the growth. They're chasing the time that they can keep working together, but enjoying it.
Yeah. So, they're not, they're avoiding going out of business. As long as they're in business, that's that's the goal.
And they're not. Yeah. They're not always wanting to make extra profit.
Yeah.
They're just focused on just like making sure they deliver a great product or service.
Yep.
But also just building a community. And that's where um over time the the kids that grow up and see their parents go through what they're going through, they learn to be resilient. They learn to be like, you know, great people as well.
Um, and so they, they also see their parents work hard. So they can see that like it's actually they get something out of a reward.
So they then decide to work hard and they know how to like focus their energy.
Um, and then you got the parents, they end up becoming like the leaders in their community or their family.
And then everyone looks up to them, which is like it's kind of like a small village like back in China, for example.
Um, where like there's a village and there's a village head that looks after the whole family and then everyone looks, it gives and everyone provides.
Um, and everyone comes together during cult like, you know, these like festivals or like.
Events. Yes.
That's where I just see like a lot of um clients are starting, like the ones that are really happy are the ones that build that.
Yeah. Gotcha.
And then. Yeah, I just man, I want to replicate that. I want to try to do as much as I can for that. And I was speaking to like some 20-year-old client, like he's making money, uh, left, right, and center, it's doing really well for himself. And I was like, wow, like I'm pretty happy that I get to meet someone like you that's like at this stage of life and then I asked him a question. I was like, so what's your end goal? And he's like, he couldn't answer. He didn't even know what he was like, why he was doing business. He just wanted a lot of money.
Yeah. He just said, "I just want to make a shitload of money."
Yeah.
And I was like, "Why?"
And he didn't want to say it. And.
Why not? [laughter]
That's That's what the answer.
Why not? Right.
When you're young and ambitious and you have no responsibility, it's like why not? It's like It's like you're pushing yourself to see how far you can go.
Yeah. But who told you that being successful is making a lot of money? I bet you it's because of social media. But then like I'm telling you this like after you get to like 30, when you make a shitload of money, the problem is that like, and this happened to me and it happened to a lot of people in Australia. Australia has so many vices. It's got um drinking problem. It's got a gambling problem. It's got like, you know, drug problem. The problem is is that when you make so much money, you don't know what to do with it and you just.
You blow it. Yeah.
Yeah. You're going to blow it on cheap dopamine hits that are very fast because you this just how you lived your life. And when you make a shitload of money in such a short period of time.
That's also a dopamine hit. That's something that you want to keep, like the thrill of it. And I'm worried that client is also going to go through that same thing where he's like, he makes a shitload of money when he's young and so therefore he's always striving to make a shitload of money real quick and and then he wants to spend it and then eventually there's just no feeling he's going to get of running a business anymore.
It'll never get higher than that, right? Like.
Or he can't chase. He can't do it again. Like sometimes like you get lucky and you can make a shitload of money in a short period of time.
Can't repeat the success.
You can't repeat it. It's it happens to crypto, for example, and then you chase it. It's like gambling and you lose everything and you get majorly depressed.
Do you, do you think the missing piece in all of this, and I thought about this a lot actually, um, when we were on the flight back, I was like, actually, the one thing that I feel like I would really want to do that I think would add another dimension to fulfillment in my life is actually to do more um acts of service. So, for example.
Feed the homeless or some sort of like, doesn't have to be charitable, but it could be like supporting community, um, someone else.
You know, like that kind of thing because I feel like that's kind of um, when you feel like you've helped somebody or a group of people achieve something else, there's that that closes the gap because you have all this like capability to now resources to do it, but but what you're doing, what most people do is they just hoard it for themselves. And I think that's the goal of like happiness, the material success, but actually.
They closed the door. [laughter] On it.
They closed, they closed the door behind on other people. Literally just listened to uh a podcast between Hormosi and Tony Robbins. I don't know if you saw it.
Yeah, I saw it. Yeah. And I heard about.
I watched that in one sitting cuz I was so curious cuz I knew Horoszi was really traumatized by like his relationship with dad. Like he, he's all his drive is from anger from, you know, and he's like a very angry person basically.
Yeah. And so for the first time I watched him, he was like almost like a student. Like he just listened to Tony and had what Tony had to say. And Tony's whole thing was just like, you don't like you don't have to tie together suffering with like, you know, success. Like they shouldn't be two and the same. Why can't you enjoy and then still have success and it can be easy? Like he just kind of broke his like limiting beliefs. But he talked about the idea of just like, yeah, acts of service and like actually giving and that sort of stuff. Cuz that's what Tony Robbins does. He's just.
[ __ ] gives away like.
And he can still make a shitload of money.
He still makes a shitload of money. Makes it back. Still be successful, still still can do a lot of things.
I was like, I was like, this makes total sense.
Yeah.
So that that gets me thinking. I'm like, maybe for this year, it's like, do we do something small or I, I want to.
You can give me money if you want.
What? [laughter] Are you talking about? Well, I don't know if I should say it on camera, but like this guy, this guy was very generous when we were traveling and stuff like that. So I was very grateful for that.
Yeah. I think like for me, um.
Yeah. Uh, when I was a kid like.
I never got Christmas presents.
I never got birthday presents. Yeah.
You got, you got the big back for your birthday?
You got the big backs for your birthday, right?
The vouchers.
Yeah. Yeah, I got those. [laughter] Yes.
But I never got like anything. And so, you know, when I like now that I'm growing up, I just feel like I want to give like constantly.
Yeah. I was.
But a lot of people don't react that way. Like don't a lot of people don't interpret that situation that way. Like people then start hoarding. They feel like they have a hole that they're trying to fill because they're like, "All right, I'm gonna make a [ __ ] ton of money because I never got birthday presents so I never got Christmas presents as well, right?" But you, you've like acted differently.
Yeah. Yeah. True. But like I also don't want to give and like tell the whole world like which is like freaking some people do as well. So I don't really care like.
But I think it just makes me feel better like.
Like it's a selfish thing somehow.
Yeah. Selfishly like I, like obviously like I'm doing quite well compared to what I was before. I feel a bit guilty making that money like, you know, I don't know, maybe it's just strain the strain like culture that the tall poppy syndrome thing that um Australia does which is like whoever succeeds, everyone likes wants to knock them down. It's just the way it is, right? Um, and so for me, I kind of feel guilty always like when I'm making money or doing well for myself, even though I work my bloody ass.
Like you earn.
To get there. Yeah. I've been doing accounting for 18 years and running running my own business for 10 years. Like there were a lot of ways where I could make a lot more money, but I just focused on doing it slowly, doing the right thing by my clients and my team, right? Um.
And yeah, like um, but I still feel like [ __ ] sometimes making the money.
So that's why like I selfishly want to give away or help other people.
By doing that. Yeah.
Like I look at someone like uh Junda from Hojac and you probably see it on his socials. He like even like he's like so busy, right? He's like, he collaborates great. And then he still has time to go and feed homeless people in Melbourne.
I don't know if you've seen it on his socials, but he's like, he just. Yeah, he he does it like every week he's in Melbourne like without fail every time I see it. And like I noticed it because I'm like, goddamn. I was like, I know how busy this guy is and he still has time to spend one evening to go out there and just like hand out meals.
Yeah.
Homeless people. And I was like, I was like, I remember messaging him. I was like, like, tell me next time you'll do it. Like, I'm down for it.
I think it's just. Yeah. Like honestly, man, those things like it's selfishly helps us. That's that's what.
Yeah, 100%. I'm sure it makes him feel good.
Right? And he's probably it's filling some hole in, I don't know, his life as well. But he's. Yeah. Yeah. It's just crazy to like, like people don't come to that conclusion, of course, because they hoard the material stuff.
Yeah.
What's the goal for 2026? No.
Balance.
Yeah.
Oh, let's define this a little bit. [laughter] What's What's balance?
Honestly, more work-life balance. My entire life, like 90% of my life is work for the past 5 years. It's hard to undo that.
5 years. Okay. I just want to point that out.
Hey, 5 years is a short amount of time.
I'm humble. I'm not buying a massive duplex.
Hey, wait. [laughter]
Don't you don't you look at back there? Okay. All right. Yes. It's.
Hey, you haven't seen the duplex. You keep saying it's massive.
I've seen it, dude. I've physically been there and shot there. [laughter]
Okay. All right. All right. I know the square footage.
Okay. Okay. Okay. [laughter] Okay. I lie. I lie. I didn't know that you were there. You've been at my house. Yeah.
Damn. You've probably been in my house more than I've been there.
Yeah, probably.
Yeah. [laughter] Damn.
It's coming together. It's really nice.
Yeah, it's.
I like that call out. I've been [laughter]
Hey, it's uh, you.
Blame it on Daryl, but not much I'm going to say about actually.
It is a nice house. Like I am like spending a lot of money. So.
Okay. So, so balance.
Balance.
What does it look like?
Work-life balance, man. Like less time at work. Like not spending 60, 70 hours there a week. M.
Spending more time with family and friends. Taking better care of myself. That's a big one.
Yeah. On the health train.
Yeah, I need to for sure. And then there's also. Yeah, just traveling more. More leisure, more time for hobbies.
Yeah.
More time for fun.
What about you?
Me?
Yeah. Just spending more time with um uh April. And.
To be honest, like being a bit better human being. Like uh.
Like man, I'm trying to cut drinking. I'm trying to be more healthier.
Oh, I see. Yeah.
Um.
Yeah, man, I think that I have a lot of vices. Like I gamble as well. Like I think I've been pretty honest on the podcast. I've done it before.
Um, because I just enjoy like the the dopamine and I just trying to find better dopamine hits rather than just.
Vices.
Yeah. Better vices, man. Like um.
Just wowed cards without anybody.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like as in like literally I just win from stats from my um a bunch of my friends. Yeah. And man, that's that's really and I'm trying to like encourage my friends to go down that path too rather than like.
You know, just always going out on Friday night and drinking and all that stuff like that because we've got we all moving to that direction of like getting married, having kids.
Yeah.
And I just really want to be together with my friends and growing together rather than like leaving and.
Yeah. That's that's my goal for this year. My goal is this year to um cuz I used to be a massive planner for like mates, you know, this I used to like.
You know, like social outings. Did it for my trip, bro.
Well, yeah, but but as in that was me doing it for myself. You were doing it for yourself.
But like I used to, you know, do the full and and I like I was like, "Okay, cool. I've I've have enough gap between when I used to do it and I think I got really burnt out and and also maybe not necessarily the right people, people who kind of took advantage of it um and got burnt by it to now being cool like got very good people around.
You know, like can we do something that's going to be like really me similar to like what Vin wanted to do for New Year's Eve, like the whole memorable.
Um, thing but also just like, yeah, experiences and experiences not just by yourselves cuz I feel like I've done already a lot of that with just like my family um direct family but also experiences with like friends as well. So, like one of the things is like, could we not do like a, you know, for example, like another Christmas or New Year's trip at the end for like a week at like a resort with everybody.
That would be cool to see.
Yeah. Or like, you know, if like the boys want to go and just see the NBA finals or, you know, World Cup or I don't know, some sort of experience and it's like, it's not like money doesn't get in the way. Time doesn't really get in the way. It's just whether or not you want to do it or not. And like where's everyone at in life and where are they prioritizing things as well? And I'm just like, I want to, I'm just like, for every year that passes that we don't that someone doesn't take the initiative to do it cuz I think we're all just busy trying to like do life that I feel like I want to go back to initiating a lot of this and try and make it happen cuz I think it would be cool just for like.
Experiences and like life and stuff like that.
We should take this guy to a resort. Yeah. And he can look after our kids. [laughter]
He can be in the kids club with the kids.
I joined the kids.
But that's that's for me. I was like, that's I would really want to do something like that cuz I feel like recently um, it was like even this weekend on Saturday, I, I like, you know, got a group chat with like some um, old high school mates who all have kids now and I'm just like, who's free tomorrow? You know, bring the kids there was like two or three of them brought their kids, just hung out, like, you know, stuff like that, start small, but then do something bigger and bigger and like similar to what we did in um Dubai, it's like, how can we do that again, but just be more deliberate and plan it. We don't have to rely on, you know, Vin getting invited to Dubai to.
Yeah. We get, we don't even need to go on like crazy, man. It can be like a weekend.
Yeah. It doesn't have to be anything crazy. We can just go to a park. Like I, what I've realized is that you can buy a nice toy for your kid. Like, you know.
They won't appreciate it though.
Like, yeah, like a a small baby kitchen, like, you know, for the kids that have so much fun with. Or you can give them a cup and they'll probably have just as much fun with a plastic cup.
Yep.
Yeah.
True.
Two plastic cups with a shrink.
True. True. True.
It's just It's more for the adults, I think. Yeah. Less for the kids, for sure. You know.
Like [laughter] Yeah. It's like I went like it's it's exactly what happened. I, I went and got a cup for my baby, uh, sorry, my brother's baby, like a plastic cup and she had so much fun playing with a plastic cup than any other toy that she had.
So it's just like, man, just just enjoy.
Don't need to overcomplicate.
Yeah. You don't need to complicate it, man. Just you don't need to go on crazy trips. It, it's great though. It's fun. The food is.
No, I think it's just my personal enjoyment of it. Like I actually genuinely love traveling. Yeah. You've always loved a massive traveler. It's me showing like what makes me happy with your experiences that I can show other people that experience.
Well, yeah, you do a better job of it, to be honest. Like the way you travel, the way you organize things. I have like I stress out when I buy tickets. I cannot stand buying [laughter]
Like airplane tickets. I, I had at one point had to call my mate Daryl every time I booked tickets because I stressed me out. Really?
Yeah. [clears throat]
I don't know, man. There's just too many bloody.
Options.
Options. Yeah. Anyway.
Well, the other, the other thing that gets me excited is also just obviously like some of our friends are doing businesses and people that we know.
That we would love to see them succeed the same way that, you know, we went through that same pathway. So.
Yeah, just.
Cool to see that now, like I think in the next 12, 18 months, see what that.
Viv is an example.
Yeah, Viv is killing it right now.
Yeah, she's doing really well.
She's doing really well, man.
Actually, what do you guys think about hustle culture? Do you guys think that like was it worth it? Like, for example, you, um, No, you've worked really hard for the last 5 years. Do you think it was worth it? Yeah, it was worth it because I was like bumming it for like most of my 20s. Like I think I think you need it for a certain period of your life. Yeah.
But [snorts] it's not forever. Like you said, like you don't want to keep chasing that high and so when when is your limit?
You got to know where the finish line is.
Where the finish line is. Exactly. Yeah. Like it has to serve a purpose.
Whereas we know people where the finish line's here and then they move the finish line here.
Keep going, right? And then they lose the order relationships or the whole point of them chasing in the first place.
Was to create an environment to enjoy it with the people that they enjoy it with as well.
Yeah. M.
I think yeah. [snorts] We've got some mates and I've got some friends as well um who, you know, kind of like early in the business stage, but the early signs are very good.
Yeah.
And then it's just cool. It's cool to see that like, you know, they go on that journey that we went through um as well. It's like you went first and then it was us and it was like more of these people now as well. So it's just like it's cool and then you get to like pay forward.
I think a younger gen do a really good job of um understanding, you know, balance.
Yeah. Balance. Yeah.
And like not going too hard on hustle culture. There is hustle culture, but it's just like there's it serves a purpose.
Yeah.
Rather than just going so hard that they don't know where they go.
100%, man.
Thanks for listening. As always, drop us a follow on all socials and let us know what you think about this episode. See you guys soon.