21 Savage's American Dream - Untold Stories From London, England to East Atlanta Zone 6

I hear Snoop Dogg say, "Man, look here, man. Them streaming—you stream a billion, and man, you ain't really making no money." What's your thoughts on streaming? They gotta be making money, cuz they giving me money. It's some money in that [ __ ], some real money. P, the price, want a slice, got the roll of dice. That's why all my life been grinding, all my life, all my life grinding on my life, sacrifice. Hustle. P, the price, want a slice, got the roll of dice. [Music]

My hello. Welcome to another special edition of "On the Road with Club Shay." I am your host, Shannon Sharpe. I'm also the proprietor of Club Shay. The guy that's stopping by for conversation and a drink today is one of the most influential and well-respected artists of his generation. He's loved by millions worldwide. Your favorite rapper's favorite rapper. He's a hip-hop A-lister, a Grammy Award winner, golden multiplatinum songwriter, record producer, businessman, humanitarian, father. UK born, ATL raised, a bonafide Superstar: 21 Savage.

How was that intro? You like that intro? Did I leave out anything? I, I mean, I got, got extra time; I can add some more. I ain't never heard no intro like that. I like that. I appreciate that. Appreciate that. You know, anytime you stop by, convers—have a, have a conversation with a on Club Shay, I got you a little drink. This, this is me right here, and uh, cuz I want to toast the album, bro. Uh, that's you right there, "American Dreams." Yeah, yeah. It's good. But I don't drink. You don't drink at all? You just did that for me. I appreciate that, bro. Good looking. Did that for you.

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You was born in London. Mhm. How old were you when you migrated, came to the US? Like six, turning seven. So do you remember a whole lot about being in London? I remember like SM things, but not like a lot. Like a little smile, like going to my grandma's house, right, being with my mama. Uh, I remember like going to the stores like across the street, and then like on my mama's side of town, it's like this [ __ ] called a High Street, okay, and it's like a street just full of stores. I remember like walking over there, but I remember more like from when we went back and visited, okay, type, cuz we went back once to go visit when I was a little older, so I remember that more than I remember like stuff while I was there, like when I was younger.

When you—did you have very many friends? Do you remember, remember friends when you were growing up? You say you left at six or seven, so did you have very many friends? I just had family, like cousins, like a lot of cousins. Yeah, so I ain't really need no friends.

So your family, your your mom moved you here, of all the places in the US—why ATL? You think I don't know? I ain't never asked that. You never, you never asked me, like, "Mom, not New York, not Chicago, not LA, not Detroit, Atlanta?" I ain't never asked that. Oh God. Do you think about how different your life might have been had you gone to one of those places—or Chicago, or New York, or Detroit, or someplace other than the east side of Atlanta? Damn. I ain't never thought about that. Oh God. You just—so you just—happ—like, okay, so you get here, you get settled in. So obviously you're in a—New London is very, very—so is London—I'm assuming London is very different than Atlanta. It is, but it ain't though, really, to me, because it's like, it, it look different, but it's the same [ __ ]. Okay, you see what I'm saying? It's like, when I came over here, like I had family too. Okay, you see what I'm saying? So you just around family.

Oh, so your mom—so you, you had relatives in Atlanta? Like my mama's friends, they moved with us, so all the people that I grew up with—oh, all moved? Okay, so it wasn't like you was just like, move into a—by yourself, like just you and your mom. You had a large contingent with you. Yeah, yeah. Oh, so did that make the transition a lot easier? I ain't know about no transition. I'm just a child. I'm just with my mama. You feel what I'm saying? So, so how, how soon did you get acclimated, and how soon did you make friends once you got to [Music] Atlanta? Like quick. Like, it was this, this boy named Skinny. Mhm. He had got killed though, like a couple years ago. Wow. But that was like the first person I met that like ended up being like my best friend, okay, like growing up. They used to stay—like we stayed in the upstairs apartment; he stayed directly under us. Okay, and his mama—like we was bad as hell, cuz it was six of us—well, back then it was like four of us. Okay, so we used to be jumping up and down, running around, and he was the youngest, but his siblings was like way older than him. Okay, and like, so they house was quiet; they got plastic on their couch, all that. So like, when we used to make noise, his mama would grab a broom and hit the, hit the roof. So we ended up getting cool. His mama and my mama ended up getting real cool. Okay, and I used to like stay at his house, used to stay at my house. Like I still talk to his mom all the time. Wow. Yeah.

Your, your family, your background—y'think of your—really your mom was from Dominic—your father is uh, from Dominica. Dominica. Yeah. Oh, okay. Not, not Dominican Republic, Dominica. Yeah. And so how much of the tradition from when you came to—from London—did you guys bring with you? So where did you matriculate into East Atlanta rather, rather, rather seamlessly, like, because you say you got a big—you got six—like four—four boys and—no, it's three boys and three girls. Three girls, three boys. Okay, and your mom. Yeah, and then my little sister—them. Daddy, he Jamaican. Okay. And what you mean, like, like foodwise? Yeah, as far as my mom—a cook. Okay, for sure. Yeah. So how soon did you start eating some of—you know, cuz they get, they got them oxtail, they got them some mother pork chops, mother chicken. How soon will you started eating that opposed to what you were accustomed to eating? I think like that came with like, like making friends more, like when I used to go spend the night at my friend's house, like growing up, I ain't never—I was allowed to eat pork. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Like other stuff, like when I go to my friend's house, spend the night—as a—like when I was younger, I eat whatever they cook, but I ain't start really like just picking what I want to eat till I was a little older. You feel what I'm saying? So when you went back home, you like, "Mom, my friends, they cook this," her—M, their mom cooked this. You think you might be able to cook that? Did you tell your mom that? N—hell no. I ain't telling my mama no [ __ ] like that. Hell no. She went—you righty to hear that. I know she was trying to—I ain't even going to try it, right?

Did, did your mom share with you that you guys were leaving London, coming to the US, or did you just guys just up and leave? Did you know you were leaving? I don't really remember, like, I just remember it's like so long ago, right? So I be trying to really think about the story, but I'm, I'm sure my mama told me where we was going for sure, cuz I was six, right? But I, I just don't remember like that conversation, but I know it had to happen, right? So do you remember—you just remember getting on the plane? Didn't have no idea where you was going? You just know you were leaving London. Yeah, right. Cuz I think at first it wasn't a stay thing. Oh, okay. She was just coming to visit, right? Okay. I think we was coming to visit, M, but I don't want to [ __ ] the story up neither, cuz my mama know the story. You know what I'm saying? I think it was like, "Let's see, we want to move here, but we F to go see if we don't like it, we going to go back" type [ __ ]. Okay, and then we just stayed, right? So clearly she liked it. Yeah. What about you? Did you like it? Or you was just going along with the flow? You really didn't have a choice in the matter, cuz you five or six years of—baby. So if you didn't like it, you was stuck anyway—you going to just adapt. I liked it though. Okay. I liked it. Like, it's hot; it ain't cold all the time. Like, I remember like playing outside, like doing the same [ __ ] that I used to do like when I used to go like to my grandma's house on my daddy's side. Like we playing the neighborhood—go—like it was the same [ __ ], right?

So what was it like—I mean, cuz all of a sudden they got these, these new—this new family comes in, and I'm pretty sure you probably had an accent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, okay. So now you on the east side of Atlanta, yeah, you got an accent. How, how receptive were the kids to you? They used to te—I got in a fight on the first day of school. Oh God. From the jump. Yeah. They was used to tease me. Okay, like I went to Dunnell Elementary; that was the first elementary school I went to. Okay, so we get to the—I get on the bus or whatever, they start talking to me, so they making fun of me on the way to school. Okay, so we get on the bus to go home, they making fun of me on the way home. Okay, so we get off the bus, like one of the—one of the older dudes, like his little brother was the main one, so the older brother was like, like um, said something like basically like, "[ __ ] fight him," so we get off the bus, I beat him up. So the girls—all the girls, they run and tell my mama. Okay, at the door. So I—your sisters—kids in the neighborhood—in the neighborhood. Okay, so they run, they tell my mama, cuz they start—I, I really was kicking a lot. They started calling me Taekwondo kid, my M—it's a true story, on my mom. Okay, so, so I—they um, they run to tell my mom, so I, I'm trying to drag my feet to get home now, so I walked to the door; she grabbed me by my ear, pull me in the house, cuz the girls were still there, right, telling her the story when I got there. So she—I just remember her grabbing me by my ear and then like throwing me in the house, like type [ __ ], and then that was it. I ain't get punishment. You ain't get no punishment? No. She didn't ask you what started it? Uh-huh. So you—so not from my memory, you feel what I'm saying? She probably did though, but from what I can remember, I just remember getting pulled—you know, you only remember parts. You remember like—I just remember the ear—like—

So what do you think was the biggest—obviously you're very young, so you haven't experienced a whole lot. It's not like you're coming here, you're 13 or 14, so you haven't had a whole lot of uh, uh—you're five or six years of age. I think you're seven at this time. Yeah. So is there big culture shock? Do you notice anything different about being in London as opposed to being in East Atlanta? The most [ __ ] that I ever—like that I used to—like what I remember changing was the size of everything, thing. Okay, like I remember like in London, like our bathrooms would be like this big right here, you feel what I'm saying? Then I remember like we was still—we was in the hood in—on the east side too, right? But it was just like a size different, like, like at my grandma's house in London, I could touch both sides of her house like this. Wow. You feel what I'm saying? But over here it's like more space. I remember that, and I remember getting in the car to go everywhere, right? In London, we used to take the bus and the train, like everywhere. I remember like we always was in the car when we got here.

So you had an accent, I'm assuming—where—so where did you fall into ranking as far as your siblings? I'm the oldest. You're the oldest? Yeah. Okay. So I'm a—you—so you man—so if you're seven, that means—and you got three brothers and three sisters, that means—man, you got some babies—you got some—they was three like—cuz it's a, it's a three-year age gap between me and my little sister. Okay, so if I was seven, she was probably like three, turning four, right? And then my—love brother was still a baby, baby, right? And then the other three was born in America. Okay. Feel what I'm saying, right? Right. So did you—s—feel a sense of responsibility because you are the oldest? You, you—I mean, even though you a child, you like, you're the oldest male, and so do you feel some type of responsibility that you needed to like, okay, I need to be the man of the house, even though I'm only seven years old at the time? I think so. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, like I was naturally like a protector type [ __ ]. Yeah, for—yeah. So what did your mom—what did your mom think about that? So the type of relationship, because like you said, you're the oldest, your mom is in a new—in a new place, and granted there—a—a community that came with you, but you the protector, because you like, okay, I got to look after my mom, I got to look after my brother, my sister. Did, did your mom tell you anything about that, or you just instinctively took that on? I think it was just like instinct for the most part, M. I feel like, I feel like it's just in my personality too, like, just like take care of everything. I don't know why I'm like that, but I think just naturally like I developed that, cuz like my whole life I've been like that, like since I was old enough to like get out and do what I need to do, right? I always like took care of my mama and my siblings and [ __ ], right? Yeah. Do you feel that—so was your—when you were in London, do you remember much about your dad being around? Yeah, I remember my daddy used to come get me like every weekend. Mhm. MH. I used to be over there, cuz that's like where a majority of like my cousins was at, right? On my, on my mama's side, I only got like, like three, four cousins. Okay, but on my daddy's side, it's like 30 of them, right? So that's like, like my oldest cousin, Teran, he in the wheelchair. Okay, I remember like following behind him a lot, right? Feel what I'm saying? So that's my dad's side, right? So you—so in other words, you really love spending time with your dad's side of the family because that's where all the cousins were—that's where you got an opportunity to run and play and just have a good time. It was just deeper, but my mama's side too, cuz like my cousins on my mama's side was bad as hell too. You see what I'm saying? But it just was a lot of us, right? Like it was just me, Chirone, and Jerome, right? We was the only boys on my mama's side. On my daddy's side, it was more, but [ __ ]—it's just different sides. Well, see, if it's only three of y'all, the trouble is only going three places, so it's you, you, or you. When your dad's side, it's about 30 of y'all, so you can blame a whole bunch of people. Oh God.

So growing up in the east side, on that side of town—rappers Gucci Mane, Future, OJ da Juiceman, Rich Homie Quan, Childish Gambino—did you, did you know any of those guys when you were growing up? You had no idea about these—I seen Gucci before. Okay. Um, yeah, I seen Gucci before, for sure. I seen him at Church's Chicken before, like when I was real young, right? Right. No—Miss Wless—I seen him at Miss—Miss W. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Zone—I mean, the East Side, that's Zone 6. There's a lot going on. Yeah, east side of Atlanta. There's drugs, there's a lot of killings. Did—so what did your mom—did your mom try and shield you, like, "Son, you can't be out this time of night"? So what, what did she tell you about the area that you, that you guys were going to call home now? I don't—I used to be outside, so I don't remember like her—just like—the only time it'll be a problem is if I got in trouble in school, right? But other than that, like I wouldn't—one of them—when the street light come on, kids like—right? My mom used to let me figure it out, cuz in London it's the same [ __ ]; it's, it's, it's down there worse, right? Cuz it's like concrete everywhere, you see what I'm saying? Alley—it's the inner city. So in London, I used to be outside—from what I—well, that was when we went back though, right? Like from before then, I don't remember being outside that much, but—so like, no, she just used to let me—let you figure it out? Figure it out. Then I used to be with Skinny, okay, but his real name Aaron. Okay, I used to be with him, and he was older than me, so he was like my big brother, right? And like, so as long as I was with him, she would give me a little more freedom to do [ __ ], like—as long as he watching over you, you good. Did you always gravitate towards older guys? Yeah, I always hung with like people older than me, for sure. Because you felt you was more mature than—guy—than than young guys your age? Yeah, for sure. Cuz I was older—I, I had to be—I'm the oldest, right? So you naturally like a little more mature than you have to be, cuz if you're not, you're going to get in trouble, right?

So how was the struggle—when your mom moving here, obviously in a different—in a different country, obviously times were difficult for you guys. Did you realize how difficult times were for your mom and your family? Yeah, hell yeah. Like I remember when we first moved—um, you be smoking cigars on here, don't you? You go—hey, take off—all right, this your—just your joint. Let's go ahead. But I remember like—um, when we first moved over here, like before we moved to the neighborhood where I went to elementary school from, okay, we moved to another neighborhood on the east side, and I remember like my mama and her [ __ ]—well, her man at the time, they used to sleep on the bottom bu—all us used to sleep on the top bu—we used to share—like we shared an apartment with one of friends. So it was a two-bedro—okay, we didn't—got evicted before. I remember we coming home, and our stuff was outside in front of the house, right? Like growing up, like—um, I ain't never had my own bedroom till I was probably like 15 years old or something. M. Like I—we all sh the room like for probably from like first grade till like sixth grade—we—I—it was—they had a room—my mom and her man had a room, and me and all my siblings had one room in a two-bedroom apartment. Then like, I don't know what happened, they got a little motion, and then we moved in the same apartments, but we used to call it across the bridge, it's like the other side of the neighborhood, right? And we had got a three-bedroom, so—okay, the boys had their own room, and the girls—girls had their own room, and then I met my other big brother when I moved over there to—vars—right? They stayed under us—they mama used to do the same thing. Oh man. Oh God—get the broom and bang the roof. Oh God. Right. Yeah, but for sure it was a—

Struggle cuz like she my mama couldn't get no job or no driver's license. She couldn't get food stamps; she couldn't do none of that [ __ ] right. So you know it's a struggle, right? So she's basically working any job that she can get, maybe you know, maybe cleaning floors, maybe in the kitchen, or doing things of that nature, trying to make ends meet to put food on the table and a roof over the head for the kids.

The one job I remember her having, she I don't think she never like did like no cleaning floors type [ __ ], but the one job I remember her having was like a daycare, and they used to pay them under the table. I remember hearing them conversations though, like being nosy cuz I ain't even supposed to know that as a child, but I remember hearing them talk about it like, right, and she um she used to work at all of them used to work at a daycare, her her man and then the other families that I told you moved with us, they used to work there too, and I they used to pay them undery the table like cash and [ __ ]. That's the only job that I remember though.

When you came home from school one day and you saw your family belongings outside, did the K how did that make you feel? Did the kids make fun of you? Did you realize what was going on when you saw all of your belongings on the outside?

Yeah, cuz I didn't seen it happen before, and I remember like we used to steal people [ __ ] like cuz I didn't seen other people evicted, right, seen they stuff outside and like all the kids, the badass kids will be in the neighborhood walking around, see some [ __ ], start going through that [ __ ]. Okay, so I just remember instantly thinking like nobody better not touch my [ __ ]; that's like the first thought. And I remember standing, but I remember like I didn't really care about it that much cuz they put our [ __ ] out, but they we instantly moved to a bigger apartment, right? So it kind of was like it wasn't like we just our [ __ ] was just out there and we trying to figure out what I'm saying; like I remember us moving to a bigger apartment like instantly, okay type [ __ ].

So what was what was a typical meal in the household?

Oh, we had food. You had good, you not like steaking [ __ ] though.

Ramen, hot dogs.

Yeah, yeah, like that. Okay, like we had the regular, you know, but not like I don't I don't remember no time like well, just was nothing to eat in the house. It's going to be some bread. We used to make like condensed milk sandwiches, like then was like ice grugg meal, right? Like you take the you get the bread and the condensed milk, and then you put it in like the little toaster type [ __ ], and you put it together; that [ __ ] be good as [ __ ].

Oh God, you eat one of them now?

Hell yeah, I will. Oh God, but like, you know, hot dogs and noodles; my mom used to make noodle stir fry, right, ramen noodles, right, um, curry chicken, jerk chicken, all that type of [ __ ].

Did you you being the oldest, did you learn how to cook? Could you cook?

For sure, because I'm I'm assuming like a lot of times your mom probably was working and you had to take care of your brothers and sister, so it was left up to you to probably cook the ramen, to warm the food up so they can eat when you got home from school.

Not cook though, like the most my mama would make me do is like unthought of food to meat, like take the meat out. I used to get my eyes wed if I forget to take the meat out, right, and put cuz she don't play about the lemon, like don't just sit in the water, put lemon juice in the water when you sit it in the water. So sometimes I take the meat out and just sit it in the water without no lemon, get in trouble. Okay, but she ain't never just make me cook, but we used to make our own little food that we wanted like, so if my little brother was hungry and they wanted like a pack of noodles, I make them some noodles or some [ __ ], right.

Yeah. Um, obviously we talked a lot about your mom. What what's the relationship like with your dad?

Me and my daddy in like a weird place, cuz he got his side of how he look at it, I got my side of how I look at it, like like I I kind of understand like, okay, if your child move to another country, it's kind of hard type [ __ ], but from a child point of view, all I can do is go off the emotion that I felt as a child, like I don't I can't I can't tell you how I would feel about it as an adult, right, because the the hurt come from when I was a child, you feel what I'm saying? So it's like it's like me me whooping you as a child and then expecting you to receive the pain as an adult, like hell no. I I know how it felt when it happened, right? I know I felt abandoned; that's how I felt. I felt like I used to see like other kids in the neighborhood, well, not in the neighborhood, but remember the family that I told you that move with us? Yes. I had a friend, well, he liked my cousin, basically, raim, he was in the same predicament, like he was in another country with his mama was with another man, now a stepdaddy, and his daddy used to come visit him all the time, buy him [ __ ]. So I used to be kind of jealous of of what he had going on, right? And so that's that's where a lot of the disappointment came from with my daddy, but my daddy was a good daddy to my siblings over there, all right, like my little brother who died, my little brother got killed, right, on my dadd side, right, they was best friends, you feel what I'm saying? I got twin little sisters and I got another little brother; they all love my daddy, you see what? So I can't just say you no bad daddy, but with me, I feel like you didn't do what you were supposed to do.

The relationship that they have with him is not the relationship you have with him.

Facts, right? Because you saw you said the family that moved with you, you saw his mom, even though she was in a foreign country and she had ended up having another man, his dad still came over and would see him and buy him things, and did you explain that to your father, saying, look, uh, rockim dad, he his mom is with someone else and he found it time to come over here and see him and buy him things and spend time with him? Did you convey that to him?

Not as a child, not as a okay, but like my little brother died in 2020. Okay, and like that was me and my daddy first time talking in like 15, 20 years type [ __ ].

Savage. I mean, you you didn't you didn't reach out when like at any at any point in time before that 15 years was up, did you not reach out and try to have a conversation with your father? Cuz like when I turned 21, I got shot, okay, and my mama came in the in the like while I was in the ICU, she brought the phone, well, I don't know if I was in ic, I don't know where I was at, but it was like fresh, it was right after I got to to the hospital, okay, and um my best friend had just died like in the incident.

Mhm. So like I just remember being like mad, I was more mad than sad, so she tried to hand me the phone, but I remember telling my daddy like um cuz my mama and her my like my SI four of my siblings got the same Daddy, I got my own Daddy, and then my little youngest sister got her own Daddy, okay? So my mom was moved out here when she came out here, the father of my four younger siblings, he came like a little later, okay, and we all was together, okay? So when they had broke up, how I took it was like, I you ain't my daddy, I got to figure my own life out, like I can't be up under your roof no more cuz my mama left, right? So I left. So I remember communicating like to my daddy like your biological father, yeah, like like I'm in the street at this time, but I'm telling him like I figure it out, like I don't expect you to just be able to just put me up in a apartment and just pay my rent every month like, but I'm like, can you contribute like a 100 or $200, and I'mma figure the rest out. I'm probably like 16, 17 at this time, this like years before I got shot, okay? I remember communicating him like, can you help a little bit, like my mama ain't got you on child support, you don't really send no money like that, and it ain't no disrespect like cuz I he went in like he be taking [ __ ] like me telling my story is like trying to down him, but this is my truth, this is what I remember, you feel what I'm saying, right? Like from what I remember, he wasn't really sending no money to my mama, and my mama wasn't just pressing him for no money cuz she had a man, so you see what I'm saying? So I remember communicating that, and I remember like it not coming through, so now I got to go extra harder in the lane that I'm in, right, as a 16, 17-year-old, you feel what I'm saying? Cuz I got for myself down there, I got to feed myself, like I'm staying with friend to friend to friend, you feel what I'm saying, right? So I remember feeling let down by that on top of all the other times that I was let down when I was young and I wanted shoes or a phone or this or that, a new video game, you feel what I'm saying? So at a certain point, I remember like I got old enough to where it was like, all right, I I don't even care to talk, so that's how that buildup came of me not talking to him all them years, you feel what I'm saying, right?

So in 2020 your brother gets loses his life, right?

Yeah. At that point in time, did you think about putting everything else aside and try to reestablish a relationship with the father?

I did, and we got on the phone, and he started doing some things that rub me the wrong way, like like just asking me for [ __ ] like too early and like so at this point in time you had already become what you become.

Yeah. In 2020 I'm 21 Savage, right? You feel what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah, but I kind of like fell back and then like, you know, like when I do interviews, these questions come up and I just I'm truthful, so right. I think that might have rubbed him the wrong way, you feel what I'm saying, type [ __ ].

Oh, okay. So you went back, your parents come, you come over here, and you go back. So how long were you over here before you went back?

For a month? Two months? Three months? We came out here, I was seven, six, I was six turning seven. We went back the summer of sixth grade going into seventh grade, so however old you is.

Okay, so probably 11, 12.

Yeah, so probably like what five years we was over here, five years cuz I know I know whatever it was it was right before the Visa expired, we went back and then renewed it, okay, type [ __ ]. You go over there with it, did you remember anything about London because you had now you had spent just as much time in America as you had London because remember you five or six when you left, you stay five, six, seven years here and you go back, did did it seem like home or did it seem unfamiliar to you?

It seemed like home, like even like like even when I just went back for the first time in what I don't know how many years that is if I the last time I went with when I when I was 12 and I just went last year when I was 30, that's what 18 years.

Yes. I still remember how to get to my grandma house, okay, like cuz like it's a parking lot and you got to walk through to get to her house, like I I still remember how to walk to her house. I still remember how to walk to the store, so it's like I remember I don't remember everything, but I remember like right key like major parts type [ __ ].

Once you get once you get over there, did you yearn to come back?

Like yeah, I like London, but the US is my home now. When I was young, when we went back to visit, yeah um yeah, I think I was ready to go home, not like just in a rush, but it was like, all right, now I miss my other friends, right? I missed y'all, we didn't k ready to go back, yeah.

So School, how were you in school? What type of student were you in school?

I was an excellent student up until a certain grade, okay? Like I feel like like um we was just talking about this last night, we was playing the game and they was like um spell supercalifragilistic expialidocious, and it was crazy cuz I won the spelling bee in fifth grade spelling that same word.

Wow. And I won the math competition that same year, like okay, so I used to get all A's, but like up until a certain point, I feel like when I when I found out like really just realize like I no matter how good I do in school, I can't go to college because I'm an immigrant, I can't get a job, I can't get no driver's license, I feel like once that started to kick in, I kind of just gave up, like okay, and just stopped caring. I used to go to school, fall asleep in class, like just do all types of [ __ ], right? So once you realize like, man, as smart as I am, math won the math competition, won the spelling bee, I can only advance so far in school now, I might need to try a different path.

Yeah. So you go on this so at school so how so how were the other kids towards you because you're smart, normally kids they pick on kids that are smart, but

I was the cool kid.

Oh, you the cool smart kid?

Yeah, okay, cuz I used to do bad stuff too. I just had I just had good grades, but I still used to skip, fight, right, like do all the little mischievous things kids do in school, but I I was just smart. I'm still smart.

Like did you get bullied in school?

No, I ain't really get bullied. I had issues with people, right, not just like you ain't F to just put my head in the toilet or take my lunch money, right? So that's what it was. I mean, the older kids trying to take advantage of you.

Yeah. And you like nobody never tried to do that to me. I'm just saying like I'm not one of them kids. I was never one of them kids, right? You ain't let nothing slide. No, my mama ain't even F to go for that, right? Like I remember like getting tried in the neighborhood, right, my mom and them coming outside to fight with us.

What where your mom at?

Facts. Mom put it down like that. I remember one time like it was this lady, and my little sister used to be real cool with this lady's daughter, right, but I was just known is the bad kid in the neighborhood, right? So somebody spraying it spray-painted [ __ ] you all over her car. She had like Lexus, the oh man, the little bubble Lex, right? But it was like it wasn't like the it was just like a regular little Lex, okay? So she come straight to my door, my mama ain't home though, banging on the door, where your bad ass at? I know you did this [ __ ]. So she come to the door, so my auntie was down the street, I guess my little sister ran and told my auntie, so my auntie come down, my auntie come down by this time they didn't call my Momma. I remember my mama just smashed through the neighborhood in her minivan. I remember I had some scissors, I hadn't broke the scissors, so it was just one side of the scissor like this, so my mama pull up swerving, she part right in front of the lady's building, so the lady out there um the lady standing like on the car like with her back on the car, my mama jump out the truck [ __ ], she done mush the lady.

Oh God. But the lady didn't want to fight, so my mama didn't really just mash the gas on her type [ __ ].

Oh God. And me and my little brothers, you know, we deep, it's all of us, then we got friends, right, like and our friends down there like our family like we like this the hood, we down there like this, our side, right? So they all out there like ready like they was going to beat her up, but she she she bit her tongue and on my mom, I really didn't do the [ __ ], right? It really wasn't me who spray-pained her car, right? That's how you know reputation is your reputation preceded you because you used to get in stuff and they just automatically soon as some some is went down, Savage did it.

Oh God, that [ __ ] was crazy, and I was innocent as a [ __ ].

So you go to school, you end up getting kicked out of school because you brought a firearm to school.

Yeah. What made you feel you need what made you feel like you needed to bring that firearm?

I think I was just bad, like we were it was like some issues where a group of people from like another neighborhood that we didn't really get along with was saying like they were supposed to be trying to fight us, and they was deep, it want like five, six of us cuz all my friends are older, so they in high school, right? You see what I'm saying? Okay, like the people that I hang with that's like I feel like it's like me, it's only a few, it was like three of us, and then like I was just being bad, really. I didn't really need to bring no gun, right?

Where you get where you get the strap from?

Like this dude in my neighborhood had did something, and he hid it somewhere, and I knew where he h it at, so so I sleep stole it, right.

Yeah. And so someone tell how did they find out that you had the piece on you in school?

Cuz when I got to school, it was an ISS day, so I started thinking like d I don't I don't want to just be had this [ __ ] home school suspension, yeah, I ain't want to just have it on me all day, right? So I'm like, let me hide it, and it was this little [ __ ] ass look like he ain't even really I don't even really [ __ ] with him, he just happen to be there while I'm Hing and [ __ ]. Oh man, I ain't even thinking about this [ __ ] at the time, I didn't put this [ __ ] up under some leaves and some bushes and [ __ ]. So I guess they see us on the camera, but on the camera they can't really tell who doing what, they just see me and him right there doing something. I don't know how it happened though, but they found it, they end up finding it, so they come get me out of ISS with the it was the school officer, his name was Valentino or Valencio, some [ __ ], but he was a police officer but school police, okay, that come get me out of ISS, they walk me into the um assistant principal's office, but they know me like all the cuz you know like and kids this ain't for I'm not bragging about this, but when you bad as hell in school, you you have an assigned counselor type [ __ ], and normally your counselor is one of the assistant principles, right, type [ __ ]. So all I didn't had been celed by all of them type [ __ ]. So they come get me out of ISS, they bring me in um in the office, the [ __ ] who was there while I was hiding and [ __ ], he right.

There in the office, I'm like a [ __ ] He done dime you out. I know it. This about so they bring me in the office; they like, yeah, what? What was in the? I'm like, I don't know what y'all talking about. I don't know nothing. I don't know. I wasn't doing [ __ ]. So I just sit there. Then I just, every time I used to get in trouble, I just get an attitude and get mad, and so I don't got to an to [ __ ]. I just like, man, bro, stopped talking. So I stopped talking. So they, they like, all right, come on. They bring me back to the ISS. So I'm like, oh, I'm straight. So I'm seeing that ISS, they start calling like, you know, that be like buses, Walkers, Riders, W. So everybody starts going. So I get up off the rip, like I'm, I ride the bus, right? But they let, I think either Walkers or Riders out first. I get up, and as soon as the first one gets up, so I'm walking out, ISS. I'm walking out, you know, ISS and the trailers, mhm. So I'm walking down the hill; I see the school police; he's walking towards me. He comes and gets me; he cuffs me. I'm like, ah [ __ ], but all I was worried about was my momma. It's like when you're young and you get in trouble, you don't give a d about nothing else but what your momma's going to say. Oh God, they cuffed me up, took me to um, they tried to do some fake scar, straight [ __ ]. They took me to um, the big jail, the C County, right? Um, but like they used to, like I don't know how they do it now, but back in the day, they used to, you in the big jail, not like put you in the big jail, but that like the juvenile facility was right there, but they'll take your pictures and [ __ ] at the big jail, right? So when they bring us in, I guess they told one of the inmates like, start banging on the, the window or some [ __ ] to scare us. I'm like, bro, what the [ __ ]? That didn't work. No, now big ass D, what, what you going to bust through the door and do something to me on the? So, so now they banned you, you cannot go to school in the Cal County, correct? No, that ain't, that, that I got on probation for that. You got on probation for that one, okay. Right. The next year, no, this, yeah, this, this eighth grade, I'm doing good. I'm still on probation, playing football or whatever. So I'm at the back of the bus with, with all the cool kids. Okay, we're on the way to school. These [ __ ], it was this song when we was young called Teabag. That man, these [ __ ] in the back, they start beating on the window, Teabag that ho, Teabag that ho, banging on the window. So people start throwing [ __ ], cuz we had a substitute bus driver. Oh man, they start throwing paper at the bus driver. I'm just back there; I ain't really doing [ __ ] cuz I'm on probation, so I'm chilling, but I'm laughing and [ __ ]. I think I was singing the song a little bit, right? Man, they come get us; they treat us like we goddamn did some, some serious [ __ ]. They, they come get everybody, everybody who was in the back of the bus; they put us in the library. They had a, like the, it was some girls who was like telling about what happened; they got down. I think some of the boys was like grabbing the girls, type [ __ ], bringing the girls back there and [ __ ]. Girls was sitting on people's laps and just bad [ __ ], right? So they had some girls who started telling, right? Like they got in trouble, like, if you don't tell who was doing it, we're gonna tell your parents that you've been being fast back there, right? So goddamn, I just remember they had, we had like a u, they used to call that [ __ ], like a hearing. A hearing in the library; they're bringing all of us to the window; they got girls lined up; we got to put our face at the window. Like the hell? They like, yep, they said him. They put my face; I ain't even did [ __ ]. They like, yep, him. So when that happened, by me being on probation already, that's when they kicked me out of all the school [ __ ] for that incident.

So they lied on you? Hell yeah, they lied on me, man. You sure? I mean, you sure you had no, you had no involv-, should have never been back there once they started doing all that. Ex-, should have got, went to the front, have got up and went to the front, so they didn't really lie; I was back there, right? I just wasn't doing all the, the [ __ ] that they was doing. I was in the mix, type [ __ ]. Did you have to go to juvenile detention for that? That was just like some school [ __ ], cuz they like [ __ ], you on probation, right? You still don't know how to act. So they informed your mom; that's when they kick you out of the Cal County, correct? Yeah. So they tell your mom, yeah. What'd your mom say? I, I, I think that's the first time I really just got grounded, like, well, you can't even leave the house, but I still was leaving the house. My mama know that [ __ ] though. She know that [ __ ], cuz yeah, I got grounded. Cuz, matter of fact, on God, so boom, my mama, she ain't with me by then. I'm too grown, like, right? Ain't no whooping. So she, I get home and [ __ ], she like, you ain't leaving; you can't go nowhere; sit inside the house; watch your little brothers and sisters, type [ __ ], cuz at this time my little brother, Ruru, he was probably like two or some [ __ ]. So I used to have to babysit, but my little sister's old enough to watch him too, right? So it was this little boy in the neighborhood; I ain't going to say, I don't even remember his name, anyway, but he was like younger than me. So I'm outside; we're at the park, the park like right behind our building. So we, I'm at the parking [ __ ]; he walks up like, bro, I got some keys; I found some keys to this lady's car that lives in the next building. So I grab the keys; I take the keys; I'm like, what car is it? He shows me the car; I'm like, all right, all right. So I'm not supposed to be outside, no. So goddamn, I go get the car; I crank it up; I'm like, oh [ __ ]. Have you ever driven a car before? Yeah, my mama, my mom, my mama [ __ ], man. Yeah, oh God. So, so, so I'm like, oh [ __ ], this the real key. So I jump out; I jump out; I, I walk out; I walk back to the park. So you know how when you're young, you're doing something bad, you always need somebody with you to do it too, like you ain't going to just do it by yourself, right? So I forgot who it was; it was somebody, oh, it was, it was my partner; I forget his name, Terry. He used to live across the bridge, though. He was spoiled, though; he was the only child; they lived in the townhouse. Okay. So I used to kind of like be jealous of him, but I used, I used to [ __ ] with him too. He used to have all the games, unlimited snacks. Oh God. So I went and got Terry; I got a car; I got a hot box; that's what we call like a stolen car. I got a box; I got a box. So I go get him; we go get in the car. So we're driving around the neighborhood, spinning, like, like doing burn, not burning out, but just like drifting, right? So I go park the car; we jump out; we go back to the park again; we're chilling, probably like 30 minutes. Go pass; I'm like [ __ ], let's go ride; let's go ride. So goddamn, now I feel like I done mastered the car, so now I'm trying to do extra [ __ ]. So I get in the car; I reverse, but we, the car is parked directly in front of the people's like building, their apartment building, right? So when we're pulling off, we like trying to ease off and then hurry up and smash off. So I put the car in reverse and I back out the parking spot, so but he's working the, the gear, right? I'm just, you just drive, yeah. So I'm thinking this [ __ ] put the car and Dy, this still got in Reverse; I didn't smash on the gas; boom, boom, hit a tree, man. I'm like, oh [ __ ], [ __ ], [ __ ]. I hurry up and park the car, get out the car; we take off, run in the back cuz I ain't want to run this way cuz my building's right here, right? So we run behind their building and I run through the back way of my building and go, go change my clothes, type [ __ ]. So I come back out; the C County police are out there. So I walk up; so they like, uh, who seen where they went? Who seen where they went? I'm like, I seen them; they had on white; they ran that way; they ran that way. My [ __ ] ass little cousin told his mama it was me. Oh man. So the police don't know, but my mama knows, right? So now goddamn, he didn't talk, but I think I, I can't remember. I got to call my mom and ask her, like, did she, whoop me about that? Cuz I think she, that's like, she punched me about that, like, or something. I remember I got in big trouble for that, and I just remember that being like a couple of days after the school bus incident, cuz that was like fresh, like I really was supposed to be outside, right? You're supposed to be inside; you're not only are you outside, you're doing some, oh no, that's how I got to go outside. On God, I told my mama I was taking my little brother to the park. Okay, so my little brother was at the park with my little sister, right? That's how I got outside. Oh, okay. Oh God. So you were supposed to be outside; you just wasn't supposed to be no, no hood [ __ ]. Oh God. Oh, excuse me. Yeah. And your brother R- died you out? My little cous-, little cin did. Yeah, he told his mama that it was me, and his mama told my mom, type [ __ ]. But did the police ever find out it was you? No. Well, you're straight; there's Statute of Limitations up. Oh God. Sports, did you play sports? I played football, but I was too small, but I tried. You tried. But really, I had to for probation. Okay, like they was like, you got to be in as many extracurricular activities as possible to keep you from doing [ __ ], just being at home doing nothing, right? So I had to, but then like at, I only played one season, cuz at the end of the season my mom and them didn't have enough money to pay the dudes, right? So I only played one season; I probably got on the field three times. What position did you play? Wide receiver and cornerback. Okay. Had you stuck with it, you think you'd have been pretty good? Yeah, because I ended up getting taller, like as I got older, right? So probably, yeah, for sure. But I stopped going to school in ninth grade. Oh, you might have been an NFL player. Facts. But I don't think the average do, the how much money do the average NFL player make? Do they make more than a rapper? No. Yeah, it all dep-, I think I went the right route. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, let you a play quarterback now. Quarterback, they make some bread. Yeah, they make 40, 50 million a year. Yeah, but you're doing better than that too, so you did the right thing. Yeah, facts. Yeah, you ain't, you don't got to take no hits. Yeah, y'all be bruised up. Yeah, ain't no [ __ ] going to be pushing me to the ground and all that. So you go, so the ninth grade, that what, that's the farthest you went in school, school, right? Yeah, you dropped out. So I got kicked out eighth grade. You got kicked out eighth grade for the second semester of eighth grade. What did you do to get kicked out? The bus [ __ ]. Oh, so yeah, but you had, but I thought you could go if you went to another County outside of the cab, you were straight. I still, that's what we thought, so we moved at the street to Gwet County, M, and I had to go to Alternative School, right, in Gwet County, right? And they make you, well, like that [ __ ] was just different, bro, like cuz when I went to Alternative School in the C County, you know it's black kids; it's still like, it's still like regular, right? I got out there; it was just nothing but Mexicans, but it was some black people too, but this, when I first learned about gangs and [ __ ], okay, type [ __ ]. So I went there for a semester, then I went to South Granette High School for like probably like a semester, okay? Then they was trying to kick me out cuz I was smelling like weed in school, falling asleep in class, but this is about around the time where I'm telling you like I ain't, I ain't really feel like [ __ ] was going to get me nowhere cuz I'm an immigrant, right? So I just stopped caring, right? So my mama just withdrew me, type [ __ ], and she starts like trying to homeschool me and [ __ ], and then that [ __ ], I don't know, it just eventually, I just, I don't know what the hell happened, but it just stopped. You just kind of realize, let man, school ain't for me. Yeah, oh God, right, yeah. And so what, so once you realize like school ain't for me, what did, so like what are you gonna do? You got to do something. [ __ ] Hustle, [ __ ]; that's all you, that's all I could do for real. Did you ever get your GED? No, I'm f to get it though. So when you, when your, okay, your mom takes you out of school, I got my G-, no, I don't think I do. Your mom takes you out of school; she's going to try to homeschool you; you like, if this ain't for me, what do you tell your mom? Mom, school ain't for me; hey, I'm not going. This homeschool ain't working; I'm going to get on this grind. Or did you, or did you just like, I just got to do what I got to do? Honestly, my mom always just knew, like, cuz I used to be getting in trouble for like having cars lined up outside the house and [ __ ], so like, cars lined up outside the house, yeah, type [ __ ]. You a general manager of the car dealership or something? That's, that's the only way that's supposed to happen, like people outside waiting in the car and, okay, yeah. So she, I feel like she had an idea, but I think I was just too grown, even though I was young; I was just like grown, like I can't explain it; it was like you're much older than your age. Yeah, like you can't tell me nothing, cuz I already be gone for goddamn two, three weeks at a time, type [ __ ]. So it's like, if you tell me something, I'm going just get the hell on, right, and go do it somewhere else. So when did the affiliation with the gangs, when did that come up? Out like, I don't know; I feel like when you're from the hood, they just automatically like affiliate you with a gang, right? Just growing up in the area, did you feel, I ain't never been initiated into no gang or no [ __ ]. Yeah, so that's, that's, that's you're not a part of a gang, and people just assume because you was doing devious, you know, stuff, right? Stealing the cars and whatever else was going on, they just automatically assumed you were part of a gang, right? Just from being from, from a certain side of town and [ __ ], right? Yeah. So did they say, did your mom, them say anything to you like, bro, what you going to do with your life? I think, I think my mama used to like beg my daddy to like step up, type [ __ ], more than like to me, m-, like cuz I feel like she felt, she probably felt like, [ __ ], what else can he do for real, right, type [ __ ]? And it wasn't like I was just stupid; like I kind of knew what I was doing, type [ __ ]. So I think she more used to like say that [ __ ] to my daddy, like, come, like get him, or come be with him, or, but then again, it's like she probably was saying that, but I wouldn't, would I wouldn't have went for that, though. Yeah, I was about to say, even if he had come, if he had come to the states and tried to take you back, were you going to go? Younger, yeah, I probably would have, like 16, 17, right? But by the time I was 20, but you're a grown-ass man now; I mean, he can't get you to go nowhere, right? I had my son, though, right? So it wasn't that, wasn't the option no more, right, type [ __ ]. Mhm. I had my son the same year I got shot, so that was 2013, 20. So you was 20. Yeah. Take us back to that day. Do you remember anything about that day, about the day you got shot and your friend got killed? Do you remember anything about that day? Was it a normal day? Did you wake up like, ah, this is, this is a Tuesday, this is a Wednesday; I'm gonna start my day; I'm gonna carry on? What was about that day? Did anything feel different? Yeah, it kind of, some, it ain't really feel different, but when I look, you know how you're in the moment, you don't, it don't feel different, right? But you look back on it and it's like, damn, cuz that day was my birthday. Okay. So like, you turning 21, correct? Yeah. Okay. It was my birthday, his, his mama's birthday, and his nephew's birthday. Y'all got the same birthday. So I was trying to like book a hotel room so we could have like a kickback and [ __ ], okay, like for that weekend, M, and um, he called me cuz I had like a couple of cars and [ __ ], like, but they were my, not stolen cars, like cars I paid for, okay? And in one of my cars I had speakers in the trunk, like you know how people put speakers in the trunk, and one of his speakers went out in one of his cars, so he needed one of mine, and he was like, [ __ ], I'm going just give you one of mine when I, when I whenever I go buy a new one. I don't feel like going up there now, so, and he was like, I want to see Kamar too, my son, right? So I wasn't at the house; I was with my other partner; he ended up getting killed too; his name's One, One. I was with him; he was like riding with me and [ __ ]; we was trying to get the, he was going to get the hotel room in his name cuz I ain't got no ID; I ain't got no license, so I needed somebody to get the room in their name. So I was running with him and [ __ ], and Johnny is my friend who was with me that got killed. Okay. He had went to my mama's house cuz me and my mama, me and my mama's last baby daddy, like my little sister's daddy, um, we had all went in, like we was paying rent on the house, okay? They was paying more than me, but I was paying, I was probably paying like 500; they was probably paying like 600 or some [ __ ], and um, so we was all staying together. So he had, um, cuz remember I told you like my mama and her other baby daddy broke up [ __ ], and she'd have nowhere to go, type [ __ ], so we finally back together in the house. So Johnny had went to my mama's house, and he had went to see my mama, went to see my son, and he had got to speak out the car and [ __ ], okay? But I remember like that whole day, now that you said, like I remember that whole day, I kept telling myself like, I got to pull

Up on Johnny, I got to pull up on Johnny, type [ __ ] cuz he wanted something that I had, and I wanted something that he had. Right, so um, after he seen my son and [ __ ], and that was his first time just going to see my son on his own—like he ain't never did that before, right, type [ __ ]. So after he went to go see my little boy and [ __ ], I had put up at his house, and he was was like um, he was like, "Ride with me somewhere right quick, I got to handle some [ __ ]." He was like, "I don't feel like going in my car though; let's let's just ride in your car." Cuz I was in one of my little pluck plugs, like like a hoopie type [ __ ], like a low-key car. Mhm, so godamn the [ __ ] so crazy because like when we was in the car on the way to wherever he was trying to go—to his grandma's car—and his grandma was on the exact same street, but where we was going was to the the left, and where his grandma was at was to the right, but on the same street. And she called like right before we turned on the street, like we was at the light waiting to go left, type [ __ ].

So when I used to think back on it, I used to be like, "Damn," like, you know how that be like in life—you you got a choice, like which way you can go, type [ __ ]. And I used to be like, "Damn, if he would have went right, he would have still been alive," typ [ __ ]. So we make we made we ended up making a left or whatever; we end up pulling up or whatever, and like a [ __ ] just jumped in the back seat and just was like, "Get it up," type [ __ ]. Then a whole bunch of this [ __ ] start happening. Do you think it was the setup? Cuz I mean, you say this is this is a bucket, this is the car that you know—low key—don't nobody really know. Did did people know you had this car? Not people who knew me, cuz I was always like a super low-key, right? Like I got a I had a flashy car too, right, but didn't nobody know about this car for real. I be thinking back on like a lot of [ __ ], cuz even like after that [ __ ], I used to be like, "Damn, I didn't de like a lot of [ __ ] to a lot of people," type [ __ ]. So I used to be like, "This [ __ ] could have came from anywhere," type [ __ ]. So that day used to cross my mind, but I don't really know.

Did you feel you let your guard down to allow somebody to get to jump on you like that? Not really, not really. Cuz I was on point; I think that's how I made it, type [ __ ], like I was already looking back, type [ __ ]. Did you know the guy? I ain't know. So he says, "Give it up, whatever you had on you." Like, "Okay, bro, hey, whatever I got here, take it." You didn't have it? You you said, "I ain't got nothing, bro." I had some, but you told him you you told him you didn't have anything. No, I had something else for him. Oh, you had not what he wanted? Right, right, right. Okay, okay, yeah, type [ __ ]. But he had something for me too, right [ __ ]. So he got to jump on you, kind of? Not really though, cuz they was really scared for real. It was one or two; it was two of them. It was two of them. Okay, one of them jumped in the back seat. Okay, one of them was standing up outside the car. Okay, type [ __ ]. So the one who was sh standing outside the car, he shot me off the rip right here, okay, cuz I'm turned like this, so he like [ __ ] [ __ ] boom, type [ __ ]. Okay, then he take off running. So now it's just me and Buddy in the back seat, okay, but my brother, he um, like I remember screaming to him, type [ __ ], cuz me and Buddy start going back and forth—like his arm was like over the seat, and my arm was like over the seat, okay. So I remember like, but I was shot, so I remember saying like, like, "Johnny, shoot him, shoot him, shoot him," type [ __ ]. And me and Buddy were just going back and forth, and then he start—Buddy in the backseat started screaming like, "Ah, ah!" So you hit him? Yeah, but I was hit up too, right? So when I remember like the gun jam, type [ __ ], so I had caught it back again, and when I put my arm over the seat, he put put his gun on my arm and shot me. So my gun fell out my hand, and I remember us fighting over my gun, then it went off one more time—boom—and I got shot right here in my hand from holding the gun, type [ __ ]. Then he got up, and he tried to run, and he collapsed, type [ __ ]. And then I remember um, that's when I I had a iPhone—in this was probably like the iPhone 3 or some [ __ ] ugly ass iPhone. So God damn, now I remember like trying to unlock the phone to call 911, and like my blood kept drying up the screen, type [ __ ]. So I remember I got out the car, but first, that's how I knew Johnny was dead, type [ __ ], cuz like after Buddy got out the car and ran, I remember I told Johnny like, "Pull off, bro, pull off, pull off," and then the car wasn't moving, but his his foot was on the gas, but it was in park, so the engine was just like up. Then it was like some movie [ __ ], the windshield wipers was like—but it wasn't raining, right—and then you know the door, like when you got the door open—ding ding ding—like the alarm that tell you close the door, type [ __ ]. So I jumped out the car; I went and knocked on somebody's door; they come to the door. So I went back to the car, and godamn, I unlocked my phone—I I finally—like I didn't even unlock it back then; it was like slide for emergency call, right? So I ended up slinging it, call like, "Yeah, I'm shot." They get the ass and all tight, just dick out ass questions like, "What the [ __ ], bro? Like I'm shot. What what street, man? What the [ __ ] you mean what street? Who who? I don't know the street; I'm just shot," right, type [ __ ]. So they like um, I remember telling them like, "My my brother dead, my brother dead," type [ __ ]. And then I remember laying the—and I guess the [ __ ] who was driving them [ __ ], he came looking for the [ __ ] who was in the back seat. I guess he couldn't find a [ __ ]. So goddamn they um, he rolled back past, and I remember being on the phone cuz I thought they was going to ride back past to handle the business, right? So I scooped back, type [ __ ]; I was on the phone to lay like they rid back past, type [ __ ]. Then I remember the police pulled up; um, I don't even think I told her—I think I just put the phone like down, type [ __ ], and just did like that. Then the police pull up, so I get out the car cuz I'm a victim; I'm like, "Man, this [ __ ] talking about, 'Put your hands up, put your hands up, let me see your hands.'" I'm like, "Bro, I can only put I can only put this arm up," cuz remember I told you he shot me in this arm. So I put the arm up; I'm like, "I'm shouting this arm; I'm shouting this arm." He like um, "Sit on the curb and put both y' hands behind your back." I'm like, "Man, I'm shot in this arm; I can't put it behind my back." He like, "Put it behind your back." So I think I just like mean this [ __ ] like that, type [ __ ]. Then I sat right there for a minute; then the ambulance pulled up. And when the ambulance got there, um, I remember the lady—it was a white lady—I wanted to see her like, I wonder like how she doing, type [ __ ], but she she was in the U back of the ambulance. So they put me on the stretch and [ __ ]; they cut my clothes was open; put me on the stretcher. So she put me in the back, and she was like um, she was like um, "Let's hurry up and get him to the hospital before the sergeant get here and he bleeds to death," type [ __ ], cuz I guess like when when you in critical condition or some [ __ ], like um—well I don't even think I was in critical condition; I think I was just bleeding a lot, right? I guess like they they objective is for the detective to hurry up and ask you questions just in case, right, type [ __ ]. So she was like, "Hurry up." So they put me in the ambulance, and we just went to the hospital.

How many times did you get hit? Six. And then no vital organs though? No, no vital organs. So what do you think happened to you? He got friendly fire—my brother. Yeah, the one that was in the car with you? No, I think the dude in the back seat shot him in the head. Oh, okay. Like when it first happened, right? Cuz he had his gun on him too, right, but he never shot, right? So that's why when you saying, "Johnny, shoot him," he couldn't because he had already got hit. Yeah, I think he got hit like off the rip, real, type [ __ ], right? Yeah. So what happened to the guy that was in the back that ended up collapsing? Did he live? Yeah, he Liv—he was paralyzed. I don't know about now, but that's what I heard. You know how you hear [ __ ] in the street, but you don't know, right? Yeah. He lived though, from what I remember, what I know. Yeah, the guy—did they ever find the guy that shot you that was outside the car? Yeah, they they they they—I don't know about—I know they found two people, but I didn't know what they looked like, right? So I I couldn't tell like the police [ __ ] really; it was dark, type right? So I think they ended up—they got charged, and then it got thrown out, type [ __ ].

You think about that? Do you think about that day? What could have been? What what could you have done different? Yeah, hell yeah. But I ain't even want to really ride with him that day cuz I was really just trying to chill; it was my birthday, right? We had some [ __ ], like some drinks and [ __ ], some looking [ __ ]; we was going to get drunk. So I was really just going over there to kick it with him, right, type [ __ ]. So yeah, I be thinking about that, but the the main thing I think about is like like I heard his grandma on the phone telling him like, "I'm I'm ready," cuz he picked her up from work every day, right? And I just used to think like, "Damn, I wish he would have just went and got his grandma instead," type [ __ ]. Because he wouldn't got his grandma, you wouldn't have been in the car, you wouldn't have been there, he wouldn't have been there, and that day would have never happened. Facts. Yeah. Oh God, you seen a lot of tragedy. Your uncle ended up getting killed. You—that was my real Uncle though, but remember I told you like how we like made over here? Mhm. Yeah, he got killed when I was in third grade. I remember um, I was I was I think I was sleep, but I was so bad—I probably was up—but I remember it was a school night, and I remember um just hearing like B, and I remember jumping up, and I remember jumping up and looking at my window, and then my mama came in the room and just started hugging me, type [ __ ], start holding me. But I was so young; I think I knew it was gunshots, but some was telling me it was firecrackers, right? So I go back to sleep, and I remember um getting up the next like a couple hours later—like that was probably like 2:00 in the morning—I had to get up probably like s for school, right? And I remember like um, my mama was ironing my outfit for school and [ __ ], and the News was on, and they was like um, I think it was five of them that got killed that night; it was like four four or five; it might have been six. It was like the dudes came; they killed Big Boy, which was like my uncle; they killed um Swiss, shot and like another one of they partners, and like two maintenance men. And then I remember like um, my mama telling me—or it was either my momma or my stepdaddy—was like, "Yeah, they K'd Big Boy," type [ __ ]. But then when I got older, you know how you replay [ __ ] back in your head? I was like, "He robbed the wrong person," cuz I remember like all that week he had went and bought one of them New Tah the z72 trucks. What—the Z71? Yeah, the the two. Yeah, I know exactly what you talking about. Yeah, that's the high-end. Yeah, he had bought one of them; he had um—I remember walking down there cuz like when I was young they used to like give me like little dollars and [ __ ], and I used to like rap—like do little like freestyle three bars or some [ __ ]—and they'll give me some dollars. So I remember one time like that week I went down there, and they was like all outside by the Z71—like they was on the truck chilling on the truck smoking and [ __ ]. I remember I seen like a big ass bag of weed—probably like 5 lbs or some [ __ ]—wow—just bags of weed on the like hood of the car. And I remember um, one of them—one of them—his name was Kevin; he used to have a box Chevy on 23s with the Jordan logo going. Mhm. I remember him like, "Man, put that [ __ ] up, bro. What the hell wrong with y'all? Put that [ __ ] up." But I remember like I ain't never seen him had that much weed. I seen them smoke weed a million times; they ain't never had that much weed. So I feel like that's what happened, but I don't know. But I feel like that's what happened though—hit somebody's stash house. Yeah, the wrong [ __ ], and they came back cuz they chased him—he was in like—it was some more Apartments connected to our apartments, and it was a cut—he got damn—he got shot in the next Apartments; he was running; he saw them coming—in the head once—but he still was alive, and he ran all the way from them Apartments—ran like through the cut cuz the cut is like right next to my building—he came through the cut and ran all the way down to like to the end—like where I Street—it was a dead end on our street—and he ran all the way to like where um my cousin Raim stayed at, and he ended up dying like collapsing on they front step, type [ __ ], right?

But first birthday—that wasn't the first time you had gotten shot, was it? Was that the first time you got shot? No, that was the second time. The first time was like on some like bull [ __ ] though; it was just like a graze for real, and want to just like know—just you know what I'm saying—like I ain't even go to the hospital, right? Yeah. Was it was accident or was someone intentionally trying to—I think it was an accident. Okay. Yeah. 21st birthday, you lose your partner, you almost lose your life, you watched—you've gotten grazed before, your your uncle—who's not your biological uncle, but he was raised up with you, so he you was consider him an uncle—at what point in time, Savage, do you say enough of this? I think like after I got shot, cuz you got a kid, you got a thinking now, you got you got another life to be responsible for; it ain't just you now. For sure. I remember thinking about that too, like while I was sitting there; I was like—I remember I just kept mumbling like, "I can't go out like this, can't go out like this, can't go out like this," type [ __ ], and I was just thinking about my little boy, type [ __ ]. Did you ever lose consciousness? Not from what I remember. [Music] Right. You've uh, you've lost siblings? Yeah. You mentioned that uh, I think it's your your father had a son that ended up getting stabbed to death, correct? Yeah, in London, in my grandma's neighborhood. MH. That's why I just shot my last video at. Yeah. How does one that have experienced death so much—how does one cope with it? There's one thing to know—someone's going to die of old age—we got grandparents, or we have someone over there a terminal illness. Okay, that's one thing, but to see someone lose their life so young, to see a a parent bury a child when no one—no parent should have to bury a child—it's supposed to be the other way—the child buries the parent—how does one begin to cope or wrap their minds around death in that capacity? I don't know. I don't know how I do it cuz I didn't had times like—why I cry sometimes, type [ __ ], when I'm by myself and [ __ ], but I don't know. I think you just got to be built for this [ __ ], like you got to just be built for it. Like you learn how to like just like move forward in life and just accept certain [ __ ], but it's like still hurt though. But I don't know like what it—I don't know how I cope with it, honestly.

I read what you said after your brother's death: "I took my anger out on you. I wish I could take that back." Yeah. What do you mean by that? Like like growing up like I ain't really—we ain't really talk like that neither, cuz I used to be like kind of jealous of like the relationship that him and my daddy had. M. I used to feel like my little brother was the son he wanted, and I was I was the son that he didn't want, type [ __ ]. So like when me and my my daddy relationship faded, it's like me and my relationship were like—that whole side of the family faded, type [ __ ]. But like right before he died, we had just started back talking. Okay. So it like me saying that was like, "Damn, I regretted all the other all the years that we wasn't talking," because I felt like you was like spoiled by my—like you know what I'm saying—like you was his favorite, type [ __ ], like he ain't really [ __ ] with me; he he wasn't there for me how he was there for you, type [ __ ], right? Like I remember one time like um, my daddy had came to visit—this the only only time he ever came to visit—and he had to use like—my mama told him like—no—my my mama's baby—my stepdaddy told my mama like they ain't got to spend no money on no hotel while they here; they can come stay with us, type [ __ ]. Yeah. Oh, y'all barely had enough room for you guys, but [ __ ] West Indians just like that. Yeah, right. Okay, we crammed in this [ __ ] like—oh God—we going to cram in this [ __ ]. So so they came and stayed with us and [ __ ], and he had brought my little brother with him, and I remember one day goddamn he had then took um the van—he had took us to City Trans and [ __ ]—and godamn he only bought my little brother [ __ ]; he ain't buy me [ __ ] though, type [ __ ]. And then I remember um, I think my mama and my stepdaddy got the arguing about that because he took too long with the car, right? And my stepdaddy had to go to work, type [ __ ]. So I remember just being like…

I remember, like, being in the store and, like, I was, like, picking out [ __ ] and he wasn't grabbing my [ __ ] that I was picking out, but he was grabbing my little brother [ __ ] type [ __ ]. And I remember, like, like, being jealous, like, being hurt by that type [ __ ], right, so goddamn. I ain't never say [ __ ] though, like that, like when, because I was too young. So it was kind of like a, you know, when you young and you feel some type of way about something, but you can't say nothing, so it's just like you just eat it, right? So I remember we got home. I remember them arguing and [ __ ], and then I remember my stepdaddy telling my daddy, like, "This ain't got nothing to do with you, bro. You good, like, like um, don't worry about nothing. You didn't do nothing wrong. She was supposed to tell y'all what time I had to go to work," type [ __ ], right? And God damn, I remember my daddy, um, we we go home, we we at home now. Well, we walk in the house, cuz I think my stepdaddy told my daddy that while we was, like, in the parking lot. So we walk in the apartment, we go in the house. I remember my daddy and my mama talking and [ __ ]. Then I remember my daddy caught me in the room and he was like, um, he was like, "I ain't going to lie, um, um, I'm HCK," type [ __ ]. He was like, "I think I'mma leave early," what type [ __ ]? And I remember being like, I remember being like hurt by that too, type [ __ ], and then he left, type [ __ ]. And I I remember that's when I first started, like, being like, "Man [ __ ] this [ __ ]," like that's my, that was my first feeling of, like, and my brother, right? That's when I first started being jealous of my brother, cuz I was like, "You ain't seen me in years, you done brought my brother out here and bought him all type [ __ ], you ain't bought me nothing," right, type [ __ ]. So I think that's where that like jealousy, like, came from, type [ __ ], but I wish I never did that with with my brother. But I think I couldn't control, no, you're a child, that's like anything. I mean, if you you got two kids and you buy one constantly, the other child will become resentful of the child that you buy everything for, and the child that you don't get anything, he'll resent both, the child, ENT, yeah. So it's it's a natural reaction. Savage, I mean, that was not something that you could consciously, like, you know, "What it's okay," you know, blah. That's not how that's not how a child's mind functions. Yeah, but it explains why you have the resentment towards your father, and you ended up growing, even though it wasn't your brother's fault, but still, he was getting gifts and things that you weren't, and so you resented him for getting things that you couldn't get, and you resented the Father for giving to him. Mhm. And you, the opportunity that you know you hear people say all the time, Savage, that you know, "Make sure you tell someone that you love them, you don't know when it's going to be the last time, or you might not get an opportunity," and here we, you you sit back and like, "Man, yeah, I God, the feelings that I had towards him, what I would give to tell him I love you, and I I appreciate you, and bro, I oh God, yeah," the type of father that you are. I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you want to be everything that your father wasn't.

Facts. To your son that your father wasn't to you. Facts. Yeah, but I kind of understand, like, with my daddy, like, I like I had forgave him for all that [ __ ] when I was a child, more so like the reason why we not talking now is because like [ __ ] that he did, like, as a dad that just kind of rub me the wrong way, right? But like I kind of understand, like, your child in the whole another country, you ain't Rich, right? But it was just like, "Look, time doesn't cost anything though," right? But it was like other little things, you see what I'm saying? So it was kind of like, but now like with my kids, I be feeling like I don't be doing all the way my job because of my job, right, type [ __ ]? So I be trying to like balance that out, like trying to like, it's like you you you work to receive, to gain all this success and all the good [ __ ], but it's like I feel like the best parents in my opinion is parents that don't got it all. I feel like broke parents are are better than Rich parents in my opinion, because when you broke you got way more time, type [ __ ], right? So you there for like a lot of the [ __ ], like, yeah, gifts and [ __ ] matter, but they don't matter at the same time. Sometimes all the kid needs is time, your time. Facts. Something that a gift can't replace. Facts. We see uh, Yogatti lost his brother, yeah, was coming, was at a funeral and ended up losing, end up son uh, his brother ended up losing his life. Savage, how do we how do we stop that cycle? Because I heard Rick Ross calling said, "Bro, let's put the guns down, let's put the masks down, let's let's come together, yeah, let's build this, let's build these communities, let's get this paper together, let's stop this senseless violence." How? I don't know. I don't think that [ __ ] ever would stop. It's just my opinion, like people been killing forever. Mhm. That [ __ ] just life. But what what are they actually killing for? Nothing. But you can't, there's nothing that you can kill somebody for that validates, right? Killing, you're fighting over territory that doesn't belong to you, that block doesn't belong to you, that belonged to the man. Yeah, but I don't feel like people really fight over blocks no more. Like, think it be like [ __ ] that people do to each other, right? Is it it's like you can look at it from two points of views. When I was younger, I used to look at it from my point of view, but now that I'm older, it's like I look at it from like a older point of view. But when I was younger, it was like, if somebody kill your brother, mhm, like what what can stop you from wanting to kill their brother, seeking revenge? Like, what can stop you from wanting to do that? You feel what I'm saying? Like, then I be like, damn, what give like people the right to say when you can kill? Cuz it's people who damn, they got a license to kill, who can go, they can go kill somebody legally. What what's the difference? Like, what makes their reason more valid than this young boy who just lost his brother? You feel what I'm saying? So it's like I don't feel like killing whatever stop, probably the amount and the how it's happening and [ __ ] slow down, right? But I feel like as long as you got life, you got killing.

When did you decide that rap was going to be your way out and you was going to put that behind you? How old were you when you said, "You know what, I can do this?" I mean, I think 50 Cent was a guy that that end was in the game, end up getting shot nine times, turned his life around. Um, I don't know if 50 is a role model of yours. I think I read somewhere where you said 36 Mafia. Yeah, I like they music growing up, but I ain't really know much about 36 Mafia, like I knew about Project Pat, like his story. I ain't really know about 36 Mafia like as a whole. 50 Cent was a th%, like I looked up to him growing up too, for sure, like cuz he told his story more than like a lot of other artists. He had a movie and all this type of [ __ ], so right, I knew his story a little more, like I was inspired by his story [ __ ]. So when did you decide to say, "I'm going to give this rap thing a try," like after I got shot? Yeah, that's when I really just started, like, trying to, like, rap for real, right? I had made songs, playing around and [ __ ] with friends, but that's when I started, like, really, like, putting my money into it and [ __ ] like that, right? Okay. You meet Metro Boomin'. Yeah. And so that was, so how did you meet him and how did you guys become such good friends? I met Metro Boomin' through Key, it's an Atlanta rapper, name Key. Mhm. And I met Key through M, man, he a rapper from Atlanta too, right? And Key used to bring me around Sunny, digital, nobody has real names, huh? Everybody got, man, Manny, Key, Slim, Skinny, oh God, sh sh, Touche, Tou, right? God damn. Um, they Key used to bring me around Sunny, and Sunny was the man. Okay. And then everybody used to be at Sunny's house, right? And then that's how I met Metro. So you, Metro up, he gave you, so did he know, did he know you rapped at the time? I don't think so. He a know me, right? But I just walked up on, like, "Man, I'm Savage, bro, I need some beats, I'm 'bout to start rapping," and he [ __ ] around and sent me a couple beats, and I had did like a couple songs on him, and he [ __ ] with him, and then we just grew a relationship and it it took off from there. Yeah. Did did you think or did you know, but really, Sunny, Sunny, my my songs with Sunny blew up before my songs with Metro. Okay, type [ __ ]. Okay. So it was really me and Sunny was locked in, like, Metro was giving me beats too, but I was doing like projects with Sunny and [ __ ]. Sunny was like showing me how to record, okay, like, "Let me use his house to record," and all type of [ __ ]. And then me and Metro grew our relationship [ __ ] while all that was going on, type [ __ ]. Yeah. Did you think you could become this, cuz I remember I used to like, when I had caught my little first little song, I remember I used to be sitting at Sunny's house, like, "Man, when the hell you supposed to start getting show money, bro," type [ __ ], and he used to be like, "Bro, don't worry, bro, it's going to come, bro, trust me, bro, like it's going to come," type [ __ ]. I ain't think it'll be like this, no, hell no. Cuz back then it was like people was blowing up, but I don't know if people was blowing up that big, right? I feel like all the people who this big right now, like we all got there around the same time, type [ __ ], right? Like we ain't have nobody be like Future back then, who was just big like that. Future says, "If Young Metro don't trust you, I'm going to shoot you." I mean, but you look at your guy, I mean, what is it about Atlanta? You, Future, Tip, Ludacris, I mean, East Side, if you if you in the rap game, I think Lil Baby, yeah, I think Atlanta just like a player city, like it's just player, like we just, I don't know, we just know how to talk, we know how to walk, dress, talk to women, set trends. It's just something in the, I don't know. No, I had T.I. on the podcast. T.I. said, "You ask him for a million dollars and he said no, because he said that I would have to take more from you." Yeah, he was still trying to sign me though. T.I. is cheap as hell. He going try to, but I did, he he sent me an offer, yeah, and I my counter offer was, "I want a million," right? And he was like, "[ __ ], I'mma have to take so much from you in return," right, that it ain't even worth it, ain't even going to be worth the million in the future, type [ __ ]. So he actually saved you from yourself. Facts. Yeah. I look up to T.I. cuz T.I. one of them [ __ ], he rich as a [ __ ], but he tight as hell, boy. That's how he keep that money though, right? He's smart with his money. Had a platinum album before you signed your first deal. Yeah, yeah. So now you in you you're in a very favorable situation because you got you, I mean, it's not necessarily you got to do a bad deal because you already got a platinum album. It's not like a situation you're looking to get signed so you can release an album. You already got the album. Was it platinum or or was it gold? Gold. Had Platinum singles. I had Platinum singles, yeah, but I had a gold album, right? Yeah, but you straight. Yeah, for sure. So it kept so that kept you out of a bad deal. Yeah, cuz I was like it was like all type of street [ __ ]. I was supposed to sign to who had like little labels and [ __ ], right? But some just used to tell me like, "Man, hell no, I don't take no 30,000, don't take no 50,000, like you worth more than that," right? You end up doing a 70/30 split, right? Yeah, yeah, with Epic, right? Yeah, that was my first deal. It was like 70/30, but like they had like a 10% distribution, Feld some [ __ ], right? Yeah. So what's your take on streaming? I hear Snoop Dogg say, "Man, look here, man, them streaming, you stream a billion and man you ain't really making no money." What's your what's your what's your thoughts on streaming? Um, I think it all depends on how your deal structured, cuz it's some money in streaming money, streaming. It's just about like how your deal structured and how much you stream, type [ __ ]. Well, it seem to me got to be some money in it, cuz my label be giving me some money. Okay, I I about to say, cuz the way you talking, you talking like you got a structured deal that you be get, they got to be making money, cuz they giving me money, right? So it's some money in that [ __ ], some real money in it. Let me ask you about your catalog. Future sold his catalog, I think he sold it for 65, 75 million. Is that something you'd be interested in at some point? Yeah, I probably later on down the line, for sure. Yeah, I only got a couple albums right now though, right? But you going to start it depends how how much my hustle, how I apply my hustle, right? Cuz sh sh, I might [ __ ] around and invest in something and become a billionaire and be able to pass my catalog down to my kids, might not even have to sell my catalog, right? I'm looking at the XXL Freshman Class: Lil Uzi Vert, Lil Yachty, Kodak Black, Denzel Curry, G Herbo, Dave East, Lil Dicky, Anderson .Paak. Designer, and you, boy. Y'all hit a lick that year. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, y'all, yeah, for sure. It was some stars on that cover. Do you uh, do you do you ever sit back and like, man, considering what your story of how coming to to Atlanta from London or the East Side, your upbringing, there's a lot of things that could have happened that this didn't happen. Do you ever sit back and like, "Damn, man, this sh I'm Savage," all right? Yeah, yeah, sometimes, yeah. But I be like, "I still got to keep going though." You still trying to grind. Yeah, but I do be like appreciative though. I do sit back and just daydream sometimes, like, "Damn, this [ __ ] could have went this way or this way," type [ __ ], right? Sure. You shouldn't have to worry when you buy tickets to your next big event. Game time is the fast and easy way to buy tickets for all your sports, music, comedy, and theater events near you, with killer last-minute deals. All-in prices, views from your seat, and the best price guaranteed. Game time takes the guesswork out of buying tickets. Game time is the only ticket app that gives you complete peace of mind with your purchase. See the view from your seat before you buy, so you know exactly what to expect when you arrive. All-in prices show you the total upfront, so you know exactly what you're getting, a great deal before you check out. Buy tickets in two seconds with two taps. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account, use the code SHAY for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, create an app, redeem the code SHAY for $20 off. Download Game Time today. Last-minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. Your new project, *American Dream*, is projected to have your number one album, um, first album in six years. How much have you grown since your first album? I think I my sound just changed, like my beat selection, like, just talking about deeper things and just like I feel like I'm just growing up, like I'm a grownup now, right [ __ ]? I was like a young [ __ ] when I first came out. I was just saying anything, type [ __ ], right? Samples on the album, how difficult was it, how difficult was it to clear the samples for some of the music that you used? Um, Jan do that, my A&R, she she be handling, she be on on top of all that [ __ ], so she ain't really come back to me like nothing was too hard to clear this time, but it do get hard sometimes. It gets hard because they want to charge more than what you think is worth, or they just don't want you to sample it. Some people just don't want you to sample that [ __ ], right? Like, um, one of my songs, like, they cleared it for the album, but then when it was time for me to do like commercials or like TV performances, they wouldn't clear it. So it was like, damn, I should have just never cleared it for the album in the first place, cuz now this song big and and you can't sing it. I can't really do nothing, everything that I want to do with it. So why so why would they let you do it for the album, but not let you do it commercially? I don't know, man. Do you ever look and see like, okay, *American Dream* supposed to drop, and somebody else like, you know what, like three other artists might be dropping that week. Would you ever move yours up or push yours back, or you like, "Hey, me the best man, win it?" Depends on who's dropping. I'm keep it all the way real. If it's somebody too big, I'm going to get up out their way, right? But I'mma normally know that before I even, right, drop. Like I'mma know, like, you know, out the labels have like a calendar of what be coming out for the most part, right? But yeah, I I get up out somebody's way, but people get up out my way too though, right? They should. Yeah. I'm looking at uh, this, are you the best rapper in that 2016 class? I feel like I am, right? But I feel like everybody in that class should feel like they is too, right? But hell yeah, I feel like I am for sure. "Dark Days," song of the album. You say your gun won't love you back and the block won't hug you back. That song, yeah, I really was like in the booth, like, talking, like, to, like, a younger me, a young man in that same situation, type [ __ ], like I was just like telling them, like, "Yeah, this [ __ ] might look cool, but in reality, like, this the truth, like this what it really is right here, like this the real type [ __ ]," and I was just like talking to him in that way, like, "Yeah, you you could say you love that block, but it don't love you, it ain't going to hug you back, right? You can stay like hug the block, that's like posting on the block all night, it ain't going to hug you back. You can love your gun, but your gun ain't never going to love you back, right? Your friends after your candlelight, they ain't nobody going to come check on your mama, like that, they ain't going to give her nothing." Wow. Like you feel me? Like that's just how [ __ ] go for real. You told kids to stay in school, talked about seeing friends take their last breath, talked about crying at night and Mama crying, talked about kids growing up with our fathers, said even thought you even thought about suicide, uh, tells the story that don't want people to live so.

What is it about that lifestyle that people find so—not people, but young men especially, a lot of young men of color—find so fascinating? When you’re young, you damn near get rewarded for dumb [ __ ] right? Like, when you’re young, but it ain’t like a real reward, but it’s like you get more attention. I say that like—like when we be growing up, like we don’t be getting a lot of attention, type [ __ ], like our daddy ain’t there, mama always busy, type [ __ ]. So like, when you do bad [ __ ], remember I told you, like you get a counselor, right? That was like something cool in school, like if you had a counselor, like other kids looked at you like—like you were something [ __ ]. So it’s like it just builds up and builds up and builds up, type [ __ ], and you just used to getting rewarded for dumb [ __ ], or not dumb [ __ ], but like bad [ __ ], right? That it just carries on, and then you just—before you know it, you’re a grown man and you’re just stuck in this [ __ ], type [ __ ]. But you’re one of the ones that made it; you got an opportunity to be a grown man, got an opportunity to look back and say, “Look, I made some mistakes, don’t learn—don’t make the mistakes that I made.” Yeah, you’re one of the few. Yeah, bless. Very—I know a lot of people that—then um, on this album, Young Thug—Young Thug or Thug’s record, pre-recorded—you still talk to Thug?

Um, yeah, not like that, though. But we—we in the top—the 21 American Dream. You got a story, a movie coming out, and that was a parody—a par—oh, okay. Do you think your story—do you think you—your story is good enough to be a movie or documentary? You got a very interesting story, Savage. Do you think—do you think so?

I do, because it’s the American dream. I mean, think about how many people you hear about this all the time—people migrating to America—and you’re an American success story. Not a whole lot of money, very tough upbringing, single parent—I mean, you had love, and you could have gone down this path, and you went down this path for a period of time, but somehow you came back down the straight and narrow, and here we are. American love success stories—why not?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like it could be. One day. They’ll hate on it now, though. Why they gonna hate on it? Cuz they gonna be like, “What the [ __ ]? 21 Savage deserves a story for a movie, by him, for what he did,” right? You know how they do. You know what they hate on—your relationship with Drake. Why people got—why people got beef with Drake? What did Drake do to anybody? I don’t know. So cuz, you know, you’re gonna get blowback if you’re cool with Drake. They’re hating on him; they’re gonna hate on you, too. Yeah, I don’t know. I [ __ ] with Drake, though. Drake’s my boy.

Yeah, you sure? I mean, what’s not—what’s not to like about the B—I mean, hell, everything he touched turns to platinum, damn—gold, platinum—oh God, oh God. Yeah. Do you think people are envious of your relationship because obviously he—it’s not like he—I don’t—I wouldn’t say that he doesn’t mess with a whole lot of people, but he seems to have a very—you and he seem to have a very special relationship, and sometimes people get envious of that; they want what you have. What you feel like a man is, if he’s jealous of how cool two other men are? What do you—what do you think—what do you think that is? What would you look at that like? Like if—if somebody said, “I don’t like how Stephen A [ __ ] with Shannon,” sh—like how that—how that make you feel? What would you look at that like? That’s some hate-ass [ __ ], you know what I mean? Right? Because it is. But what—what you have to understand, and I’m learning this, Savage, is that as you rise, the plaws are gonna come, but so is the hate and the criticism. So if you’re not willing to accept the plaws and the agulation that comes along with the rise, you might as well get off, because the hate and the criticism is coming.

Yeah, yeah. And that’s a part of it, and you just have to accept that. And that can’t—the—the—the hate and the criticism, it can’t—can’t drown out the applause and the agulation, right? What does agulation mean? Applause, the praise—the Grammys—the man—Savage. You hear “Savage album, man. F Savage, man. I don’t fck—fck with that dude like that, man. He ain’t like that.” Yeah, you know that’s—you know that’s coming. Yeah. But see, everybody—everybody sees—as long as you like—here, and everybody’s here with you, we cool, Savage. But now—now hold on—now don’t you go here, cuz if I can’t go here with you, I’m gonna start hating on you. Now, if you get here, now I gotta say some stuff that might not even be true, right? Because I don’t want people to like you more than they like me.

I ain’t never been like that, though. I know you’re not, but there are a lot of people that are. Yeah. I wonder why, though. Like, what makes you be like that? Like I always look at it like [ __ ]—that’s just—just like me—hang on, Drake. Yeah, I’m trying to get there, right? I look at it like inspiration, like [ __ ]. I’m working. That’s—see, that’s how I look at it. I look at anybody that’s done something well—it’s been done once; hell, it can be done again, right? So it’s Drake there—hell, why can’t I get there? See, that’s how I looked at it when I saw Stephen A, and I see guys that—Charles Barkley, things like that. I was like, “I’m not hating on them.” I was like, “I can do that. Let me see. Let me get on my grind.” Yeah, but that’s not how we are. We’re not—we’re not wired like that, right? And it’s sad. The touring aspect—what—what do you—what do you like—what do you like most about touring, and touring with Drake?

The money—lots of it. Come with Drake, huh? That [ __ ] just compensates, period. Right? Reach a certain level, cuz [ __ ]—Drake ain’t gonna pay you nothing that you ain’t worth, right? He ain’t like—he just paying you cuz you’re his friend. Hell no. They paying you your fee, man. It makes me think—I should have started rapping instead of playing football. Might as well. But I got you. What—hell, what a 55-year-old gonna rap about? [ __ ]—rap about goddamn everything. Everything going through—it’s some 55-year-olds that goddamn can relate. It’s a lot—Google how many 55-year-old men there are in the world—a bunch of them. All right, then. And you ain’t gonna get me out there—help me out there. Make a song, get some screaming money, and then tell me if screaming pays or not.

What’s it like touring outside the country? It’s different, cuz they—they got—it’s like they love—they love hard. They might not even speak English, but they can sing every word that you be singing. Yeah, that [ __ ] crazy. I ain’t never got love like that before. Really. Well, I have—I have, but I think it’s just different because they don’t see you as often, so they appreciate you more, right? Type [ __ ]. Yeah. So you love—so you love going—I mean, it’s not like you don’t love touring the states, but you love going out of the country because they give you love like—but I think it might be different for me because remember I couldn’t travel for so long. Like my first time ever performing out the country was a couple of months ago. Right? So because you couldn’t leave because of [ __ ] situation, right? So I think it was like anticipated for me a lot, right? But [ __ ]—every soul showed out; they were showing love like a [ __ ]—like screaming every song—like songs that I wasn’t even expecting them to know—they know every word—every word. Yeah, that [ __ ] was crazy. Let me ask you this: Would you ever experiment with your sound, like Drake did?

Um, yeah. Why not? Once I get to Drake’s level—you gotta be big as hell to experiment because you could experiment, and that [ __ ] your career, right? But so you gotta have like the leverage to do that, right? Type [ __ ]. But right now, you love—you love the Savage sound right now. That’s working right now; it’s booming. You sold out—your album’s number one; you—you go platinum. I’m just slowly like evolving, like type [ __ ], like piece by piece. Like I ain’t just gonna jump out the window and just make a whole different [ __ ], right? But I give you like little bits and pieces of it, like as I go, type [ __ ]. You like R&B? Would you ever do an R&B album, with me singing?

Yeah, hell no, man. I had to go get a—a vocal coach. Okay. I love R&B, though. I listen to that [ __ ] more than anything. I don’t even listen to rap like that. Okay. You—you like R&B. Give me your Mount Rushmore R&B artists. If you—you got—you got to give me your top five R&B artists. Can they just be artists or a group? Can it be either or? It can be either or. It’s your list. All right. Mount Rushmore ain’t in order, neither.

No, no, no, no. Now, Mount Rushmore is only four, but I’m—I’m gonna make it easy on you. I’m gonna let you get five. I’m gonna let you get five. All right. Usher. Okay. Um, I love SWV. Okay. Beyoncé. Okay. The boy who’s in jail—oh, KY. And—five—tough, man. Number five—tough, bro. I ain’t gonna lie—I love Monica. Monica. Okay. But then like you got Mary J. Blige. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got goddamn—cuz the O—the brothers got some [ __ ] for sure. It’s so many other ones, but them—probably who I listen to the most, right? What’s your Mount Rushmore R&B? Well, Usher—that definitely gotta be on there. Usher, for me. I was gonna say Usher, Mary J.—uh, man, James Brown—I would probably—no, that’s Marvin Gaye. James Brown—sold, right? Yeah, I wouldn’t put him in R&B. Who’s James Brown? No, I wouldn’t either. No, probably Marvin Gaye, I guess. L, for me—I love Luther, but you can’t go wrong with Kenny Lattimore, either.

I don’t know Kenny Lattimore. Yeah, he’s a little bit—for your time. Yeah, yeah. But you know—but you know—but you know Luther, right? Yeah, yeah. Luther Vandross. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So would you like—let’s just say you want to do an R&B album. Who—who’s the—and you can’t pick Beyoncé. Why I can’t pick—no—hell no, cuz I know you gonna—cuz—cuz you—I know you gonna pick Beyoncé. You can’t pick Beyoncé. Who you—who’s jumping on the track with you? Just one person. Yeah, for the whole album. You have—no—you know what? I’mma let you do—Fe—you can have—you can have as many as you want. I’mma—I’mma let you have—I’ll let you have Beyoncé. Beyoncé, Usher—go do a track. Beyoncé, go do a track. Beyoncé gonna do another track. That’s two. I’mma just get two—two from Beyoncé. Um, Summer Walker. Okay. That girl—um, she hard as a [ __ ]. Coco Jones. Okay. Um, her. Okay. I like her. I’mma go get Avant wherever he at. We gonna go get Avant. We gonna get the boy Joe. Yeah, okay. We’re gonna see where Joe at. Well, you might put—if you go get—what about Casey and JoJo? You go put on Y&B—they—they be singing still? They still sing? Yeah, Casey and JoJo. I’mma go get Jagged Edge, man. You go way—all bad. I’m bringing them back together. I’mma go get SWV—y’all gotta come back out. Um, I love—Cutlass—if they still somewhere singing—I get Cutlass. I get Sam to—to come back. Okay. Yeah. See? I’mma have all types of [ __ ] on my [ __ ], right? I probably make the hardest collaboration on R&B album of all time if I could just get all them artists, right? Oh God. Yeah. It’s gonna cost you a lot, though. [ __ ]—it’s all right. We’re gonna [Laughter] scream.

How did it feel to help J. Cole win his Grammy? I think we helped each other. I don’t think I just helped him; I think we helped each other. It felt good. [ __ ]—that was my first Grammy, too, right? Ain’t like I just had ten Grammys and I just gave him a Grammy, right? We won [ __ ] at the same time, right? I wouldn’t have got it without him, right? So—so what was that—what was that feeling like? You’re sitting in there—okay, you get nominated—obviously it’s a huge accomplishment just to get nominated. Everybody say, “Oh, you know, I don’t even care if I win, as long as I’m nominated.” Bull—you’re nominated; you want to win. Okay. So you’re sitting there, and the Grammy for—goes to—and they call J. Cole and 21 Savage. What goes through your mind?

I was sad that day, cuz that was the day Kobe died. Oh, oh, right. So I was kinda sad that day, and then like—they—my award wasn’t announced in the Grammys. I knew I won it before we got there. That’s automatic. It was like one of them—like pre-announced. Yeah, yeah. You wanna—you wanna—hey, I wanna—hey, I wanna hear my—wanna get up and walk—walk on stage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh God. But yeah, that was the day Kobe died, so kinda bittersweet. So would you do a collab with J. Cole? Yeah, for sure. It seems like you—look, you’re one of these—you’re one of these artists that—hey, you collab—Offset, J. Cole, Drake—you don’t seem to have no beef with none of the artists. Cuz I feel like—I feel like life is bigger than like that type [ __ ]. I feel like we all blessed to be in these predicaments and positions and [ __ ] because I feel like we’d be doing the people an injustice by not giving them that, right? Type [ __ ]—like back in the day—you don’t remember—like everybody used to be in everybody’s video. It was more like unity, like because we were all coming from—we—we—um, we spoiled now, right? Artists today are spoiled because of how far music has went. Man, back in the day, it was like—it was harder to get on, right? So they were more appreciative by the time they got—they start getting their [ __ ] together, you know what I’m saying? So they all stuck together a little more.

Yeah, we had that. That’s why I feel like beefs were so big back then, right? Cuz it was like more rare. Now, like everybody beefing—everybody beefing, so type [ __ ]. But are they really beefing, or they trying to—they trying to get some publicity? It be half and half. Okay. Yeah. I’mma put you on. I got a tough one for you right now. Give me your top five Atlanta rappers. Without me, without you. I’mma go Future. Okay. T.I. Okay. Gucci, Outkast, and Young—okay. I’m sorry—Ludacris, Jeezy. Y’all made my top five, but that’s damn—Migos, Thug, Baby—I’m sorry. See? You can’t do—no—Atlanta top five. You can—you gotta do Atlanta top 20. No, nope. We got too many greats. No, cuz I let you put everybody up in there, so when they see that—I like my five—them [ __ ] ain’t gonna put me in their top five anyway. They might—hell no. They gonna say—current—current or all time? So what—what—what type of influence did Gucci have on you? You say you saw Gucci at Miss Wiener’s very—very early on.

I’mma keep it real. Like growing up on the east side, bro, Gucci made me hate Young Jeezy as a child, right? Right? You see what I’m saying? Yeah, like I used to really be like, “Man, [ __ ] Jeezy. I’m from the east side. [ __ ] Gucci,” type [ __ ]. On God, Gucci had a big impact. Like Gucci was the one, like—and he was like—he put that [ __ ] on the map, like let it be known, like the East Side, type [ __ ]. Are you big in the gifts? Do you buy—uh, other—uh, other—I saw Drake—Vault, Thug, or Ferrari. Are you beginning to buy other artists gifts that jump on your album and—and blow it up? Um, yeah, we be buying—I done bought Drake some [ __ ]. He done bought me some [ __ ]. I done bought Thug [ __ ]; he bought me [ __ ]—like people that I [ __ ] with—in Metro, right? I just don’t do [ __ ] for the internet. So like you do stuff and nobody knows about it. Yeah, but a [ __ ] might have a chain on that I bought him—you’ll never know, cuz I ain’t gonna be like, “Huh huh, bro,” like type [ __ ].

Were you old enough to remember Freaknik? Yeah, Freaknik would—like—that wasn’t it. I—I don’t remember being there. I just remember traffic—like can’t go nowhere. Nope, type [ __ ]. It was real nice, though. But you gotta come to my Freak—you been—you know, I be throwing Freaknik, too. You—what—what—hold on—what time—what—what really going on on my birthday? When—when is this? October? A man, man. We had—like how many people were out there? Like 7,000 people? Yeah, all downtown at the Underground. We had—we had Ludacris perform. What? Yeah, yeah. I remember them days. You see what I told you? See, after you get 55, you just get on up out the way. You know, I had my time in my early 20s, in my late 20s, early 30s. I had my time. I had my time with Freaknik. You miss—it’s real nice, man. Let—let me stop. Let me stop. Ain’t gonna say it was all right. It was all right. No—uh, everybody be talking about, you know, teeth. What’s going on? I mean, you spend a lot—you put—spend good—I mean, now you—you—you—you Savage—you’re gonna be in front of the camera; you’re rapping; you gotta have your grill right.

Yeah, for sure. How many bands you put in there? Like 85. See, I had to go get them right. You get them right. Yeah, you’re supposed to, though. Yeah—not the composite [ __ ]—n—no, that’s—that I know. Yeah, you—that porcelain—yeah, you got it, too. Grills? No. [Laughter] Grills, let—man, I wanna—I wanna get you—this—dating publicly. Would you ever date publicly again? Yeah, probably. You would? No, why? Because I believe if you date publicly, you have to break up publicly, and you have to deal with your issues publicly. If you date privately, you can break up privately and deal with any issues you may have privately. Damn. I never thought about it like that. You just taught me something. That’s just me. I mean, to each his own. I mean, some people like that. I don’t—my relationship is not for public consumption, right? Because sometimes I think people start to try to live—try to—to play out their relationship for the public and do things—“Oh, you see what they did? They’re on this vacation now.” If I go on vacation, it’s just me and you. I ain’t trying to do it for the gram, right? Yeah. I mean, if I—if I don’t—all that—like when you go out to eat and your women got to take pictures—“Oh, let me take a picture of the”—come on, man, stop it. Yeah, on God. So that’s—that’s where I’m at with that, but that’s—to each his own. Yeah, but you—but you could—I mean, if your lady says, “Okay, you know, Savage, I—hey, you might just changed my mind.”

Oh God. You might just change my mind. Cuz you—you got to break up publicly. But what if you never break up? You don’t have—you ever been in a relationship that you felt like—“I don’t think we ever gonna break up”? Hell, all the relationships that you be in, you be thinking that in a time. I don’t think anybody gets in no relationship thinking like, “Man, this—this is gonna end tomorrow.” You think—you think it’s gonna last forever? God. But I just think the thing is that sometimes, you know, man, that internet, man—then people start—then people start surmising what’s going on—“Oh, he ain’t—he don’t love her like that. She don’t love him. She—

Put the street, he put the street, and this to play. I mean, you, you get inundated with that. Savage man, you hear that enough, and it just, yeah, it’ll take a toll on you. It does. It does. Uh, your tattoos—how old when you got your first tattoo?

13, 14.

Mhm. I had got my mama’s name, though.

All right, so she couldn’t… so you cool with that? So how—when you first got your face tap, your first face tap, how old were you?

16. She didn’t like that.

17. Yeah, she ain’t like it. 1… 17.

Mhm. Yeah. So, so what was… was it the cross? Was it…

It was 21. Okay. And then that next year, um, my big brother Larry—that was like Johnny’s best friend—M, he had got killed, him and his mama got killed together.

Wow.

And I had got “RIP Larry” ‘cause me and Larry went and got 21 together, right? So I had one, a got “RIP L” around it. That was my second face tattoo, too.

Right. What does being a father mean to you?

Everything. It’s just like, I feel like that’s where your legacy counts the most. ‘Cause when you think of like all the legends, you be like, “Damn, I wonder what they son doing? What they kids look like?” Like, that’s who carry on, like that’s your name, that’s your lineage.

Yeah. I feel like it means everything. And you’re trying to be everything that your father was to you.

Yeah, facts. Do you make a… is it just second nature, or you try, or you make a con… or you like, yeah, my dad wouldn’t do this, so I’m gonna do that?

My hell no, I don’t do that. It’s your second nature. Your second nature. I don’t even think it’s like… I don’t even think of me and my daddy relationship when I think of like my kids, just what… what comes natural to me.

Do you always want to be a parent? Did you always want to be a father?

Yeah, hell, I always wanted to have kids. I feel like, what did you… what did you really do for… if you don’t have no kids, right? Like, what was all of this for? You just going to die, and then what? That’s the end of you. Ain’t nothing else to go on, like type [ __ ] Like how I look at like Bry and [ __ ] like Kenar Jr, or like Carmelo’s son, it’s like that’s what it’s about [ __ ] Like, oh God, you want… what if your son would say, “Dad, you know, I want to be a rapper, too.” I’mma try and find something else, but if that’s his passion, right [ __ ] we gonna do it the right way, right?

When people say rap is declining, your answer is…

Um, my show price is going up. What, they declin’? It can’t… it can’t be declining [ __ ] My [ __ ] going up, right? I just did the most streams in the day for… for of my career, the biggest solo streams of my career, right? So it can’t be declining, but I don’t know, though, right?

What’s 21 Savage’s goal for 24? We early in 24, we… we January, so what… what can we expect? What’s your goals for 24?

I just want to like level up with everything that I’m doing, like better show. Um, I feel like everybody love the album already, like… spend my time with my kids and my… my people. Like, I want to go back to London more often and [ __ ] and just… now that you can travel, that’s something that you want to do.

Yeah, like traveling and just starting new ventures and [ __ ] and business and [ __ ] just growing up, right? Doing grown stuff.

21 Savvy, ladies and gentlemen. All my life grinding, all my life sacrifice, hustle P the price, want a slice, got the roll a dice, that’s why all my life been grinding, all my life. All my life grinding, all my life sacrifice, hustle P the price, want a slice, got the roll a dice, that’s why all my life I’ve been grinding, all my [Music] life.