Transcription
Welcome to the Personality Couch podcast, where we discuss all things personality and clinical practice. I'm your host, Doc Bach, and I'm here with my co-host, Doc Fish. We are both licensed clinical psychologists in private practice, and today we are continuing our series on paranoid personalities. Now, specifically, the dark end of the spectrum when these personalities kill. While certainly not all paranoid personalities represent this level of danger to the public, when their psyche breaks down, they can take their anger out on others in the form of mass murder, acts of terrorism, and school shootings. Oof. So, join us on this episode as we unpack three famous murderous cases of paranoid personalities: Jeffrey Wise, the school shooter; Richard Farley, the rejected lover; and Timothy McVey, the Oklahoma City Bomber. Oh my goodness. Let's jump in.
Before we unpack the chilling details of each of these individuals' psyches, let me first say that this episode is not meant to stigmatize or imply causation. Not all paranoid personalities are dangerous, and in fact, most are not.
Right?
But at their unhealthiest levels, they can show up in forensic settings like jails, inpatient hospitals, which means that they are a threat to themselves or to society at large.
Yeah. So, this specific episode is looking only at the forensic end of the paranoid spectrum, as we pull from multiple researchers and sources who have reviewed these cases and their personalities in depth.
Yes, this is a great point, Doc Fish. Thank you for bringing that up and for clarifying that. So, I do also want to point out if you need a review or a refresher about what paranoid personality disorder is, check out episode 28 on "Unmasking Paranoid Personality," and I will link it in the show notes and on YouTube.
So, in order to understand what can drive this personality to kill, we do have to understand a little bit about how the psyche forms in, like, childhood.
Ooh, yes. So, there's definitely more things than we could ever condense to a podcast, but two things worth noting here is that their childhood often involves trauma from a sadistic parent and or a parent with unmanageable anxiety.
And then they deal with this pain and early trauma by projecting it onto others.
Right. Right. So, having a sadistic parent can mean abuse and neglect, but it doesn't have to necessarily. But with that, I can see how a child would internalize that no one is safe. Like, if Mom or Dad acts this way, who can I really trust? Right? And the other piece is if the parent overwhelms the child with their own anxieties, the child doesn't learn to trust a safe, secure attachment figure, and they can't be soothed because a parent's anxiety is taking up all that space.
Mhm. Right. Yeah. So instead, they're in a constant state of anxiety themselves, and they find the world to be unsafe and just hostile in general. And then to deal with the anxiety and anger, they don't actually, like, detect that it's coming from within themselves. Instead, they perceive it as coming from outside the self, and that leads to the defense mechanism of projection.
Mhm. Right. So, in other words, the world needs to hold my pain. And then this can make them ready to counterattack, especially if they have a history of grudge-collecting or pathological jealousy. And at extreme levels, it puts them at risk for committing mass murders. So again, someone else has to hold their pain, so someone else has to pay.
In the forensic realm, research has noted that paranoid personalities are more likely to commit mass murder. But remember, this doesn't mean that most paranoid personalities commit mass murder. It only means that of those who do commit mass murder, paranoid personalities are more likely to be among that population.
Yes. So, I think here of Stone's research from 2015, and he found that among mass murderers, 10% were actually psychopaths, and the remaining 90% had some type of paranoid personality flavors.
Mhm.
But again, most people with paranoid personality disorder are not violent, but in the forensic space, most mass murderers are paranoid personalities.
Yes. So, understanding that paranoid personality is the focus here, let's dive into the forensic level literature cases of paranoid personalities that kill.
Yes. Okay, here we go.
Jeffrey Wise, the traumatized. So, he was only 16 at the time, and he was a Native American young boy who, in 2005, drove to Red Lake High School and killed a teacher, a guard, and five students with one shotgun and one semi-automatic pistol before killing himself. And at the time, this was the largest school shooting after Columbine. But he also killed two people before going into the school. So, we'll talk about that more in a little bit.
The literature gives only a little bit of background information on Wise, focusing more on his family dynamics. Actually, there was little national coverage about this shooting in general, which one researcher attributed this to, like, race and class, since, you know, more school shooters are white boys. It's not in today's purview to discuss this, but essentially what I was reading was like, absolutely anger-provoking. It was disheartening, ridiculous.
Like, it's pointing to the failures of how we're still viewing and treating Native Americans.
Yeah. So, this is awful. And, and I imagine that fighting this stigma was also a part of his story, too.
Yeah. H. But going back to Wise, so he spent his earlier childhood in Minneapolis. Then, in July 1997, his father died by suicide during a standoff with the Red Lake Tribal Police.
Oh my.
In March 1999, his mother was in a car accident that resulted in brain damage, and it left her unable to independently care for herself to a point she was placed in a nursing home.
Oh my. So then he was sent to his paternal grandparents at the Red Lake Reservation. Sometime later, though, his paternal grandfather moved elsewhere with a girlfriend. So, Wise was in the care of his paternal grandmother at the time of the shooting.
Wow. Okay. So, I am seeing multiple attachment traumas here, like in early elementary school. So, Dad dies by suicide when he's eight, and then Mom is in a bad accident and is left no longer being able to care for him. So, that's another attachment disruption, and then paternal grandparents care for him until Grandpa moves away to be with his girlfriend. So, again, he's left alone.
Mhm. And this is probably why researchers classified him as a traumatized killer instead of a psychotic or psychopathic killer.
Right. Right. Yeah. And, and he was just a kid. Like, just a kid. I keep coming back to that. All right. Let's, let's move to what actually happened.
So, earlier in the day of March 21st, 2005, Wise shot and killed his own grandfather while he was asleep, and he also killed his grandfather's girlfriend. And because his grandfather was a law enforcement officer, Wise stole his bulletproof vest, his shotgun, his automatic pistol and ammo, as well as the marked police car. He then drove to Red Lake High School. He walked towards the main entrance and killed a male security officer while the female officer ran to alert those in the school. So, he started walking through the school, firing his guns, breaking glass from classroom doors to shoot at other people. He entered several classrooms more than once. So, then this paired with his decision to actually, like, actively hunt for victims suggested a desire to inflict maximum lethality, going back to where he already had victims so he could kill more.
Wow. Okay. So, footage from the school also showed that Wise dressed in black goth attire, which was very similar to the trench coats that the Columbine shooters wore. And behaviorally, he roamed about the school in an unemotional, calm, collected manner, not distressed or anxious or really affected at all by the chaos that he created. And it actually was stated that he was smiling and waving during the shooting, and he avoided a particular classroom where his friends were, who he waved to. Again, demonstrating that he was able to be decisive and strategic in his violence, which again, this means he's like mission-oriented. And the fact that he could, like, split off that sadistic piece of himself, like, with the friendly, more friendship piece of himself, like, that's chilling.
Mhm. So, the pre-planning, like, the purposeful, focus, predatory behavior is evidence that he was not psychotic. His cognitive abilities and reality testing were definitely intact.
Yeah. But eventually, his shooting ceased when local police confronted him, and then he took his own life with a smile.
So, he died just like his father died by suicide.
Mhm. So, the motivations for killing was suggested to be family dynamics, which may have contributed, but most certainly wasn't the full picture. It's just a piece of it. And one researcher also hypothesized that he had a desire to outdo Columbine and wanted recognition for it, since he didn't wear a mask, he didn't hide from the cameras, and he actively went hunting for victims.
Mhm. It was also suggested that the pre-incident murders, so when he killed his grandfather and his grandfather's girlfriend, like, maybe was motivated by, of course, negative relationship dynamics, but maybe also a need for supplies, trying to create a diversion, and completing a task that didn't let him turn back on his plan.
Right. Yeah. So, I just want to take a minute and just kind of discuss our unfiltered thoughts about this case. So, the first thing that comes to mind for me is the copycat nature of wanting to be similar or even outdo Columbine. And this comes up sometimes with really disturbed individuals. And in this case, it was a a child. He wants to have a purpose. He wants to be somebody. And he wants to outdo other people. So, there's a little bit of that grandiosity, but, you know, the notion that negative attention is still attention. So, if no one else is paying attention to him, he feels unseen. I mean, this is taking it to an extreme. But given his trauma and given, you know, he didn't really have control over his life with all the different caregivers and the moves, there's a part of me that this really pulls on my empathy because he was so young. I don't always feel that way with these, but this one in particular, given his trauma story, like, can you blame him for wanting to be in control? Like, this got way twisted, way out of hand, not okay. But it's, it's also interesting. The last thing I'll say is that, you know, he took his life after all of this in a similar way to how his father did, which was a police standoff, and he created that scenario for himself. So, there's, you know, some type of fusion with Dad in this, of being with him in this really kind of twisted way, right? And I think that also goes back to those family dynamics, like he targeted his family first.
Mhm.
Before moving on to the school. Mhm. I also just can't help but think of course of the psychoanalytic pieces. There's sto-masochism, and it's very present. There's a sadistic mass murder followed by masochistic suicide. Yeah. The attachment with the Columbine killers is sadistic, but then, like, there's also attachment with his father in the suicide, which is masochistic.
Yeah. We both kind of picked up on that piece, how that there's a similarity there. There's still an attachment with Dad when all the other attachment and caregivers, it didn't work out, but in this moment, he could be with Dad. I mean, that is sad. That is really, really sad. So, I can see why this one has been kind of dubbed the traumatized one, because you can see the trauma narrative in this one, because he's just, he's just a little kid, and that pulls on the heartstrings. So, uh, but let's move to the next one.
So, this one doesn't pull on my heartstrings as much, but Doc Fish, I know that you have looked extensively at this one in particular. We reference it frequently in our episodes, and I'm really curious what your take is on Richard Farley, as he's come up in a lot of our research.
So, Richard Farley, the rejected lover. So, he was 39 at the time of his crime. He's a white male who, in 1988, went to his previous workplace and shot to death a total of seven people, wounded others, including Laura Black, who he stalked for two years.
Oh, no. Now, this was a high-profile crime, apparently, since Farley and Laura were highly educated. It was eventually made into a movie called "I Can Make You Love Me," and it was shortly after this incident that California passed its first anti-stalking law. I'm just hung up on California didn't have any sort of anti-stalking laws until late '80s, early '90s, whenever it was after this case. Anyway, so, back up a little bit. 1984, Farley is a software technician, and he met Laura Black, who was another employee at the same technology company that he worked at in Sunnyvale, California. So, Laura, of course, did not accept, and in fact, consistently rejected Farley's romantic overtures and advances towards her.
Mhm. So, this resulted in Farley stalking her and doing the following: attending her gym class and taking pictures of her at her aerobics class, which he then passed off to his friends as if they were, you know, like, taken during a Colorado vacation together.
No.
Gross, right? Waiting outside of her house, resulting in Laura changing her home three times and obtaining an unlisted number.
Holy smokes. Like, she had to move multiple times because of him.
Mhm. Copying her house keys, but also leaving a duplicate set on the dashboard of her car. So, of course, you know, she knew that he had access to her house.
Oh my gosh. Okay. The details of this case. So, okay. No. No. Like, just no. He wanted to mess. Just no. He wanted to mess with her mind. Like, to put it on the dashboard. Like, that is so brazen. There's a real sadistic piece to that. Like, look what I have.
Mhm.
Mm.
And then, of course, he sent hundreds of letters, including threatening ones.
So, this is similar to, like, a celebrity. Like, she's a celebrity getting fan mail from him, essentially.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Okay. So, then the fall of '85, Laura asked the human resources department of their job for help.
Yeah. Don't think it really did anything because two years after meeting Laura, Farley was still undeterred and threatened to kill her if she went to date him.
Please tell me that someone intervened to help this woman.
Well, remember, we don't have anti-stalking laws at this point. So, Farley was ultimately fired in May '86. Good. Because of the threatening erotomanic behaviors, okay, but then he still continued to stalk her. Mm-m. Laura was able to finally secure a temporary restraining order against Farley two weeks prior to the shooting. He didn't heed it, of course. It was scheduled to be made permanent the day after the shooting. So, this was actually the trigger for the violence.
No. Okay. Oh my gosh. Okay, so erotomania. Yes. This actually reminds me of Hinckley, who was stalking Jodie Foster and then tried to assassinate Reagan to get her attention. Like, that's dangerous stuff.
Erotomania can be dangerous. Yes.
Okay. Okay. So, Doc Fish, tell me, tell me what happened. I mean, I don't want to know, but, but tell me what happened.
Sure. Sure. Okay. February 16th, 1988. Farley was unemployed at this time. He returned to that old workplace where he was fired two years prior and he took three rifles, two pistols from his large arsenal of weapons.
Of course.
Now, he started shooting in the parking lot, killing one person in the parking lot, then another in the lobby, one in the stairwell. He killed four in the hallway on the second floor leading to Laura's office. So, this appears to be random, like whoever was convenient or just in his way. Like, everyone's a threat. Get out of the way. I'm on a mission.
Yes, exactly. The mission. Yep. Laura, of course, did not let him into her office.
So, then he, like, used the shotgun to shoot through the door, but then that resulted in Laura being shot in the shoulder, a collapsed lung, and then she was unconscious. I mean, I was just thinking of Laura here. Like, she probably had nightmares about this moment ten times over, given his incessant attempts and threats. Like, she probably played this out in her head. And I imagine that that might have helped her survive. Like, oh, I mean, there's so many things we could think about, but just keep, let's keep going. It's awful. It's awful.
It is. Farley was the one who called emergency services. Then he was in a standoff for five hours with SWAT. And in the negotiations, okay, this is crazy. He let the negotiator know that he was remorseful, but only about Laura. So, he was asking about, like, how she was, and of course, he wanted her to live so she could have regrets.
Oh my gosh.
He also threatened suicide multiple times. He claimed victimhood due to financial difficulties, but also he didn't want to surrender because, you know, he wanted to gloat, and he apparently had enough ammo to last, like, hours.
What? There's so many things here, like the grandiosity, right? The gloating. But I'm thinking back to Laura, like, he wanted her to live so she could live with the pain that he invoked on her. Like, that's projection. You hold my pain, but then I'm also, like, now he's claiming the victim, right? Like, there's just, there's so many things here. I'm just—
Right. In total, he fired about 98 rounds and wounded four people, including Laura.
Okay, so what actually happened to Laura?
Great question. So, Laura managed to regain consciousness and prevent her bleeding while she was hiding from Farley. And then eventually, she managed to escape. Now, Farley let a few people leave during the standoff and allowed emergency workers to help the wounded on the first floor. Not the second, just the first. He was reportedly recorded stating, quote, "There's no more reason to harm anybody. I've run out of enthusiasm for things." Then he surrendered, but only after requesting a sandwich and a soft drink.
Th— This is a full-blown man tantrum with a gun. Like, Mama, I'm hungry and I'm bored. Get me food. Like, that's basically what that is. I'm just also thinking in both of these cases that we've talked about, there's, like, there's this duality. Weiss was, like, waving at his friends while shooting other people, and then Farley is just flatly asking for a sandwich after killing people. Like, what the what?
Mhm.
There's this ability to, like, split off the bad and just— Oh, this is bizarre. Oh my.
Yeah. No, for real. I think they're, like, wannabe psychopaths. Like, they want to sit in that power role just for a little bit.
Yeah.
Because it takes too much energy, and then they get exhausted. So, then they're done.
I think you might be on to something there. That's a really interesting thought. Yeah. Okay. I don't want to know this, but I'm going to ask it. What were the motivations here?
Well, he reportedly only wanted to wound Laura so that she would understand, you know, like, how her behavior caused him suffering.
Yeah. You hold my pain in this unrequited love that I provoked.
Mhm. But of course, it still counted as attempted murder because, yeah, first of all, his shot was, like, super close to arteries, and no one actually knows what his true intent was when he shot her. Like, probably not even him.
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And it would make sense that he did not kill himself, uh, even though he threatened to or risk the police killing him, because this act was to try to make Laura understand that she had to be with him. Like, that was his intent reportedly. But she had to live so that they could be one, which meant that he had to live too. They both had to live.
Right.
Right. Okay. So, kind of just wrapping this case up, the book, "The Anatomy of Evil," it states, quote, "The rejected lover is another popular flavor of mass murder. The psychology so often seen in mass murder, the socially awkward, outcast, and loner, grudge-holding and paranoid, unable to succeed, yet unable to accept failure and move on, shows up about as often in matters of love as in matters of work."
Oh, joy. That's a wonderful thought for the day. Great.
Yeah. Anyway, in conclusion, Farley was sentenced to death and is currently on death row. I— I have so many thoughts about this case, and I just, like, the last case I want to spend a little bit of time just discussing and kind of putting our unfiltered thoughts together. But I mean, the first thing that I think of with this case is that I struggle to think and to put my thoughts into cohesive order because my mind is just blown that, like, this jilted lover turned, like, killer having a straight-up man tantrum, then asking for a sandwich. Like—
I just can't. I just can't.
Because it's weird. Like, who does that? So, then we also have the erotomania, and I want to sit there for a little bit. Right. Okay. So, there's an article I read about delusional erotomania versus borderline erotomania. So, not like borderline personality disorder, but simply put, Farley was not delusional. He knew that Laura didn't like him, and he knew he was engaging in unwarranted behaviors. So, he was not psychotic. But he was, like, blending fantasy and reality. And he actually had a connection with Laura, just not a romantic one. Yeah. So, then her rejection led to what Kernberg labeled as masochistic infatuation.
Ooh.
Yeah. And it also led to, of course, abandonment rage on Farley's part.
Ooh. Okay. So, masochistic infatuation. So, this is like being in love with the one person that isn't attainable.
Mhm. So, essentially, you're setting yourself up for failure and rejection, but you keep approaching the person or love object, like, as if you're expecting a different outcome.
Mhm. And there is a correlation between paranoia and erotomania, since erotomania contains a projection of the love of self, and rejection, of course, is a central component of paranoia.
Yes. So, this makes so much sense. So, it's a projection of the love of self. Erotomania is so— it's so fitting, right? Like, you can see the grandiosity in the erotomania, like the concept of, "Why would you not love me?" Like, that is so narcissistic.
Yeah. Yeah. And I just, I want to plug here, too. We did talk about erotomania and delusions more in episode 31 on "Paranoia, Paranoid Personality, and Schizophrenia," and I will also link to that one in the show notes as well, because we get into some really fascinating stuff, like erotomania. So, but yes, the narcissistic piece, back to that, right? And it's also, like, jealousy, because it's not, like, acceptable to be unloved, which is that sto-masochism again.
Right. Right. Yeah. Like, so you're punishing them with intrusion and power and fear, but also you're punishing yourself by pursuing rejection.
Okay. So, what if this actually goes back to the paranoid's core fear of annihilation? So, it's like, I can destroy you and make you fall apart or disappear, which is part of that projection process.
Yes. Okay. Again, that projection. So, it's almost like there's this power over their own death fears by killing others.
Mhm.
Like, yikes, right?
No, thank you.
And it gets worse. So, let's actually move to what a paranoid personality looks like as a domestic terrorist.
Yes. Okay. Well, I will lead the way on this one. So, this is where we have Timothy McVeigh, the terrorist. So, he was a 27-year-old white male who, in 1995, killed 168 people after bombing a federal building in Oklahoma City in retaliation against the government for their destruction of Waco. So, let's start with the background information to understand how he got to this point.
Mhm. So, McVeigh's parents separated when he was about 11, and he was noted to be super independent and self-sufficient with very strong interest in comic book superheroes and fantasizing about being this heroic warrior who fought monsters.
And this was, like, pretty excessive. Like, he was spending, like, over $1,000 on comics.
Wa. Yeah. So, then, like, his fascination with superheroes then became, like, a core piece of the psyche because it was, like, obsessive. Exactly. And he spent his entire life trying to find these monsters to fight, like, through his fantasies and his daydreams. And that's also paired with he developed a core belief that he couldn't rely on anybody except himself. That's the grandiosity emerging again, or defensive self-sufficiency, like, "I can fight these monsters all by myself."
Mhm. He was also very attracted to a revenge theme in the comics that he preferred.
Which is notable because by high school, it was evident that McVeigh was significantly impacted by his own mother's abandonment, and he blamed her for breaking up the family, and, like, he called her terrible names.
Oh my goodness. So, then I can see how this set the stage for his arrested emotional and sexual development, as he reportedly was extremely immature and he was known to be self-absorbed, used teenage sexual innuendos, and he was only able to talk about his fascination with survivalism. Like, not a ladies' man.
Mm-m. He was way too much of a little boy, and he was actually never known to have any romantic relationship or really any emotional connection in any relationship.
Yeah. Yeah. And then we turn to early adulthood. So, while most people are dating at that point, he was obsessed with the book "The Turner Diaries," which is racist and anti-Semitic. So, the main character destroyed an FBI headquarters building by detonating a truck bomb. You see the parallels there? So, McVeigh apparently studied this book like it was a textbook. So, he was fascinated with survivalism, and of course, he collected guns and obtained a security job where he could carry, and then, of course, went to a ton of gun shows around the country as well.
Now, one book that I read actually highlighted McVeigh's quote, "radically unstable masculinity."
Oh, interesting. Right. So, apparently, a previous army buddy of his described McVeigh as gullible, vulnerable, and unbalanced about being tough. So, now, another person remembered McVeigh as polite, like a friendly guy who didn't interrupt in conversations, but who also always drove over the speed limit.
Hm. Now, this book actually stated that McVeigh quote, "obsessively speeds while clenching his phallic signifier and he always carried that big pistol."
Oh no. So, he was compensating, clearly, right? So, the grandiosity, the bravado to disguise the fact that he was still a little boy in many ways.
Yeah. So, then moving further into his life, he actually did join the military in 1988, but he became disillusioned with it, and he actually became pretty depressed after killing someone in combat. So, he withdrew in 1991. And then in early 1992, he started projecting that pain, and he put that onto the U.S. government, and that government became his enemy.
Yes. Yes. And then around this time, as well, the story of Ruby Ridge unfolded, and McVeigh saw a clear enemy and, of course, joined the fight. So, then later, he planned to protest in Waco, but then a day before he traveled there, he saw the attack on the news and he noted that he wanted revenge. So, it's the grandiosity again, right? Like, the cameras and the coverage of doing it today.
I think it's really important to mention that McVeigh was not psychotic or deranged. Like, his cognitive abilities were intact. He planned it in advance. He even considered assassinating, like, multiple political figures that he blamed for Ruby Ridge and Waco, but ultimately, he chose the bombing.
Yeah. And the date of the bombing was planned on the anniversary of Waco. So, he really projected this anger onto the U.S. like he was just waiting for the right opportunity and the right enemy.
Mhm. And he wanted to be discovered and connected with the event. Interesting, though, like, he used to be a part of the U.S. government when he was in the army. But anyway, so, what actually happened?
Yeah. Yeah, that is an interesting connection. Like, something, something flipped there.
But okay, as for what happened, so this was April 18th, 1995. McVeigh and his old army buddy, who was reportedly pressured into the scheme, mixed 7,000 pounds of explosives in Kansas and put them in barrels placed on a rented truck. So, McVeigh alone drove to Oklahoma and spent the night in the truck. On the morning of April 19th, 1995, McVeigh lit the bombs. At 9:02 a.m., the explosion happened and destroyed the northern part of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City. 168 people were killed in the bombing that day.
Mhm. So, after the bombing, he was pulled over for speeding 75 miles north of Oklahoma City. And then he was arrested because he didn't have any license plate, he didn't have his registration, no car insurance, and he didn't even have a gun permit for the pistol that was in his holster.
Catch me. Catch me. Yeah. I just think about, like, these these copycats that are inspired by others' madness, right? But then also, in this situation, he's not thinking through the details, but yet he goes through all the meticulous calculations of creating the bombs, and, like, there's just that dichotomy again that often happens with paranoids. And anyway, I'm— I'm going back to the copycat piece. The concept that others' madness or characters in books, as is his case, like, that that's inspiring. Like, that should tell you something. Like, someone else's madness, whether it's real or in a fictional book, like, that's not meant to inspire you.
Right? I actually, I wonder if paranoids are copycats and the psychopaths are actually the originators.
Ooh, this is a really fascinating thought.
Okay. Okay. But basically, he meticulously planned this huge terroristic crime for weeks, but then he forgot all these little details.
Mm-m. He— I think he unconsciously wanted to be caught, which is a paranoid sto-masochism.
Like, he completed his sadistic act, and his masochism followed, just like after he killed someone in combat, he became depressed.
Yeah. So, it's like he's uncomfortable being the hero, and he can't stay there for long. Like, he has to be the bitter grudge collector or the victim, because that's where he's the most comfortable. So, then he was imprisoned on April 19th, 1995, but wasn't identified as the bombing suspect until April 21st, 1995. And then he was moved to a federal prison and eventually sentenced to death. I think an important note, too, is that McVeigh was reportedly very immature.
Yeah. He was smug, posturing, a smart alec, and very proud of his crime. So, a psychiatrist who assessed him after the bombing noted, "Tim is really immature. He's almost childlike in some ways, boylike. But there's a certain gleefulness, a certain excitement that came from Tim when I examined him about pulling this prank off downtown."
Wow. Like, that immaturity has been noted by multiple researchers with him, but it was like he was still stuck in this fantasy world, but he wasn't psychotic, but still had a hard time, like, coming back to reality. Like, you killed people. That piece really sticks out. That immaturity.
Mhm. Mhm. But let's talk about motivations.
Yeah.
So, one article stated the destiny of McVeigh's ultimate warrior fantasy was to become the first hero of the second American Revolution, which is clearly observed through his life. So, his motivation clearly was revenge and retribution for the actions of the federal agencies that resulted in the deaths at Ruby Ridge and Waco. And additionally, he mentioned that if he knew that there was a daycare in the building, he might have chosen a different target because he found the children killed to be a large amount of collateral damage.
Mm- No, there's no empathy towards them, though. Like, collateral damage is code for ego damage. Like— There's no mention of them as children, as humans. Like, they just tainted his plan and his ego. And then also, he apparently considered having his ashes spread at the bomb site on the memorial, but he didn't choose to do so, writing in a letter that it would be too vengeful, too raw, cold. It's not in me. Like, there's apparently a line to his sadism, which is true. Like, he's not a true sadist.
Right? He couldn't bring himself to do what he really wanted to do. But the fantasy, the fantasy of what that would be like. So, there again, fantasy and reality.
It's comfortable in that fantasy place.
Right? So, then June 11th, 2001, during his execution, McVeigh reportedly stared directly at the camera, saying nothing, then died with his eyes defiantly open, staring at the ceiling. "I will not close my eyes. I have to see death coming."
So, as we kind of wrap this up and just discuss the case here, the thing that sticks out to me is his immaturity. And I've already said that kind of throughout. That's the common thread here. When I think about all of these cases that we've discussed today, there is this sense that they're kind of little boys who never really grew up. Wise never really had a stable family to be able to mature. Like, he was still a kid. But then Farley wasn't grown enough to know his own fantasies from his romantic reality. And then McVeigh also couldn't tell fantasy from reality and seemingly was the most immature, like, purely immature of them all.
Yeah. And I think that highlights, like, the power insecurity that paranoids can have. And I think it's based on the fear of annihilation, that, like, I don't want to be destroyed. So, I'm going to puff up. I'm going to be tough. And I'm going to destroy others.
Which is not real power. It's almost like wannabe power. And I think somewhere deep inside, they know this. It's just not acceptable. And there's such a strong theme of sto-masochism, where hurting others, then hurting the self. We're finding that enemy externally, and then treating the self as an enemy.
Because the self is the real enemy to begin with. Like, the darkness they're responding to is inside the self. It's not coming from outside like they think it is. The enemy is within their own psyche.
And even in their projection, they always come back to that home base and end up punishing the self after they punish others.
Yes. Yes. And we see that clearly with all three of these cases. Oh.
Well, as we kind of wrap this whole thing up for today, I think an important thing to mention is that most individuals with paranoid personality disorder are not violent, but in the forensic space, most mass murderers are paranoids. So, we do recommend listening to the other podcasts in our paranoid series to get an idea for the different flavors and severity levels of paranoid personalities, and also how this is different from schizophrenia. But on that note, that is a wrap. So, thank you for joining us today on this episode of The Personality Couch. Make sure to check out our blogs that coincide with these episodes at www.personalitycouch.com. And as always, don't forget to give us a thumbs up or rate and review us on your favorite podcast app. And on YouTube, hit that bell so you don't miss a single episode of our paranoid series. Be well, be kind, and we'll see you next time on The Personality Couch.
This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute a professional relationship. If you're in need of professional help, please seek out appropriate resources in your area. Information about clinical trends or diagnoses are discussed in broad and universal terms and do not refer to any specific person or case.