Transcription
Recently, Laura and I had a conversation with two of our best friends in life, Michael and Natalie Todd. Long story short, Mike and Natalie asked us to be a part of a conversation about friends in the fire, what we're learning, what it showed us. The conversation was so full that we thought there's some stuff in here that can help people. And we talk about a lot. And for those of you that have no context for Laura and I outside of this podcast, in another chapter of life, we pastored a really amazing church. And in five years, we haven't done anything in a church space whatsoever. And we made an exception here and it felt really good. It was peaceful. It was kind and the conversation was really, really helpful for us. I think for everybody that heard it, check it out. I know there's some gold in here for you and such an honor to have you checking out Lights On wherever you are today.
This conference feels like family to us. And so, um, we thought about what would be a powerful picture of God's grace and redemption, um, than for us four to sit on a couch and tell you how important it is to have friends when you go through a fire. Um, many of you don't know, but Carl and Laura, for anybody that doesn't know, um, Carl and Laura um, led one of the most impactful, powerful churches in the world, um, for just shy of a decade. And, um, yeah. And then life happened and fire came and mistakes were made and they went into a fire um that was supposed to take them out and um without going through all the details um God told me and Natalie to step into the fire with them.
Sure did.
Sure did. [applause] And um we might talk about it a little bit, but um the church is the only one that throws people that got them out of fires into fires.
It makes no sense.
And then leaves them,
right?
And then acts like they had nothing to do with how they burn today. You know what I'm saying? Like and um it was a unique call. But today um is the first time in over five years almost that Carl and Laura have been on a conference stage and we thought it was the perfect place for them to come to a family of love V4 conference. Can we make them [cheering] feel like the grace of God is a real thing? I need 15 more seconds. [cheering] You don't know what this is doing, but healing is taking place right now. We love y'all.
We love you all of you.
And um we just thought like if the church is going to really be the church,
we we might we might as well um really do this thing. And so, um, Carl, Laura, we have, first off, let me start by saying you told me when you came here that you would never ever be on this stage.
Correct.
He was adamant to let me know one thing.
Team, we need tissues.
Yeah, we need tissues cuz it's it's happening over here.
My brother's a crier. First of [laughter] all, I want to let y'all know about anything. He sees my kids, he cries. He sees the sun, he cries.
We love you.
But I just think this is a beautiful picture of God's grace.
And today, we're just going to have the type of conversations we've been having on couches and in trucks and on the side of the church for the last almost three years.
Yeah. And I just want these people to know the importance of having people in your life when a fire happens that actually still see the best in you.
And the reason I'm saying this because either you're going to be the person that needs those type of people
or you're going to be those type of people for somebody else.
You should be.
And um so yeah. that um
well you can jump in but I'll just from my perspective so um we've had our own fires to walk through and we have a lot that you guys don't know and do know but let's say um when Mike started getting really well known what I found was very interesting um I'm a I think I'm an empath impath is that the word yeah so I go in these green rooms. Never been in like green rooms with like big big churches, you know? It's awkward. Lots of small talk. But anyway, so we're we're doing small talk. But what I notice is is so many people are like sizing Mike up, but in a very like spiritual sprinkle dust on it, but I see what's happening. Like you talk to him, but I'm like,
so anyway,
she don't play about me.
I don't or any any anyone that I love, especially this couple right here. So, um, and I'm telling you why. So, um, a lot of people would be like, "Who are you affiliated with? Who they're trying to figure out like where did you come from? Who basically
put you on?"
Yeah. Exactly. And so when they find out, it's like God or whatever. Like, no, nobody. They're like, "Really? Just you?" Like the the church. Oh, really? I mean, you you know, and I'm sure they're like he's saying him. I mean, yes, you heard him. So anyway, when the book came out and um Mike had already done he shares his Instagram feed with numerous ministries and people and I've never seen anyone do it like he does and u it just genuinely just comes out of his heart. But when it came time for his book to come out, nobody offered to say like come speak to well speak to my church. Stephen Ferdick did or you know put the book out on their Instagram and share or whatever. Just kind of showing like we're the body of Christ. We're in this together all same team except this man. When Mike felt like nobody was everybody was for him, but everybody was a little salty, a little jelly. Feels like intimidated. Thank you. That's the word I'm going for. Um they didn't. Carl just seemed genuine. He was like, "Bro, I I'll put you on my Instagram. Come speak at my church. Like, has anybody like offered to do anything to help you? Like, I'll give you what I got to help promote this message. Like, I believe you. I'm for it or whatever." And he was the only one at that time that did that. And then uh was it co hit that was when relationship goals came out. So, it was actually the only way we weren't going around doing book tours, you know, because it was COVID. So he the only way would be through social media and Carl was the only one that offered like can I help you get this message out and support you and we kind of didn't really know each other super well then I think we spoke at their church yet.
Yes. No, not yet.
Um but he just seemed so genuine and the first time that I met them officially was at VU conference. Yeah. And I did a a pastor's wife thing. That's when I met [laughter] Laura. And um I could tell in a group of people like somebody that really doesn't put on a front like you can just tell like oh yeah they're authentic like you get with them they feel like you're home girl you're you're comfortable that was her everyone I felt so uncomfortable everywhere but she really was one of the first wives of a pastor of a large church that didn't seem like she was trying to grab for that mic. She wasn't trying to grab for the platform. she would do it, but um she just genuinely was for her family. Like I could tell that like she is a woman of God. She holds down her family. That's the most important thing. This is great, but at the end of the day, like the are they my family is the biggest gift that God's given me to Steuart for her. I could tell. Um I shared my testimony about MJ at that conference. She was balling. I mean ball. And I didn't and I was talking. I was like, "Who is this woman?" Like she's crying more than I am. And so, but anyway, we met them there. Long story short, we speak at their church or Mike speaks at their church and uh I could not get them off my heart. Nothing had happened at that point to publicly or whatever. And um when it did, I told Mike for several months. I was like,
every week
I just ran up like, "Hey, you need to call Carl." And just, you know, another week or two, another month, "Hey, you need I feel like you just need to call Carl and check on him or whatever." And so, um, that's my part in the story basically is the connector that I believe God just supernaturally put them both in my heart and he didn't necessarily he didn't cause what happened, but he saw, he knew.
So, it's like a supernatural um connection that
So, let me let me piggy back off that.
Yeah. You guys keep going because I'll keep talking.
God saw the fire that was up ahead.
Yeah. and he connected us right before the flame started.
So some of the people that are in this room that my four and no more, there are some of y'all that need to let other people in cuz you don't know what's up ahead. And we go speak in their at their church for the first time in January. And that after 2020 January, Natalie tells me every week like, "You need to call Carl. Y'all need to have y'all need to talk more." Now, if you know my wife, this ain't her. She like, "Don't talk to them. Talk to me."
No, no, no, no, no. I'm just I'm just not for the
She lying. She like, "You don't don't go there. Come lay right here, right next to me."
No. I'm just not for that fake ministry connect type.
That is very true. That is very true and the other is true too. So
I do like you
but this was unusual for her. She she she had a burden
that was given by God.
I called a few times. We talked a couple times but nothing serious. In October their situation became public. Um an affair happened and public ridicule and documentaries and all of this other stuff. And my wife and I were at a counseling session and my wife said, "You need to call Carl right now." And you know, when somebody's going through stuff in their real life on Instagram, a lot of times you'd be like, "Oh, I'm praying for them."
Yeah.
You just don't really know.
You don't really know how
you'll be received.
It's going to be received. And on my way to Target, I called Carl. He picked up the phone the day everything blew up. And he said, "I'm riding my bike right now. Give me 10 minutes. I'mma call you back." And I literally said to him, "Hey, man. I know we don't have a relationship like that, but if you need somebody to tell the truth to, you can tell me everything." And I want to bring this whole point. This is leading to something that I want to use to teach and then we're going to let them talk on the phone in the pillow aisle at Target.
I sent him to Target.
She sent him She sent me to Target in the pillow aisle in Target for an hour. He told me everything that happened, everything that was going to come out, everything that was He was still trying to figure out even how to tell his wife. And I told him, I said, "I'mma be with you in this no matter what happens. I love you. I'm going to be with you." Fast forward in the story, he comes to Tulsa per my invitation for my birthday. I go and find him in Bradleton, Florida, and I say, "We got to have we got to eat." And when I saw Carl that day, it looked like life had tried to literally kill him.
You were unrecognizable. I mean, he
he did not look well at all. And we sat on the balcony of a hotel. It was me, Carl, and Jesus. and we talked and we cried and we listened to Morgan Wallen. And I felt that God had assigned us to step into this fire with him. And I got home and I told Nat, I said, "Um, I don't care what anybody thinks. The Bible says, "Those of you who are godly,
you're supposed to restore those who have fallen
with humility, lest you be one to be overtaken by your your own temptation."
And I said, "Either we going to talk about Jesus or act like him."
And they came for my birthday. And Carl text me on the way home. He was like, "Bro, this was the most the best weekend we've ever had."
You want to know what we did? We went over to the Davis's house or like
to Bri and Aaron's
to Bri and Aaron's house and we played taboo. And we just played taboo. And I think why some of my side is it was just normal. Like they just got to come to a safe place and play taboo. And their son was with them who played with our kids, you know, chasing them around. He's older than them, but chasing them around and just having a really chill good time.
They needed safety in their fire.
Yeah.
And it takes somebody to create that safety.
He text me. He said, "Bro, I'm on this plane headed back to Florida and my wife's looking up houses in Tulsa."
I was like, "Shut up." What? Because when you find someplace safe,
when you find people who are safe,
you have to do anything you do because that's the place you can heal.
So Carl and Laura
and as a wife and a mama bear, she was on it. She was like, "We got to go. [laughter] We got to go to Oklahoma." Okay.
So you're doing great.
I'm sorry. I'm butt in there. So, Carl and Laura, what does it mean to have friends that actually will get in the fire with you?
Do you need a sec?
Mhm. [laughter]
[cheering]
Now I need a sec. Um, thank you guys. Thank you. You guys are literally those friends in the fire. Um, oh man, your message last night firstly was I realized in that moment why we were coming up here today because at first I was like why are we doing anything on the stage tomorrow? Um, why you need good friends in the it's everything. It is absolutely everything for me. I was that friend to so many people >> who were going through things. And when this happened to us, at first I was completely grieved and broken and angry. Angry at God, angry at the church, just so broken. And when people like Mike and Nat came around to just step into that space with us, I was like, "Okay, this is this I feel safe again." And it really took it took me three years at least to feel safe even in church again. And that's a process and you know that's a whole other story. But the friendship thing is so important to who you have with you. And at first I was like why is no one with me in this? And we had a certain you know a few friends >> but now I'm so grateful that a lot of them did leave. because >> it it it showed me that I didn't need a lot of people. It showed me I needed the right ones. >> And when I got the right ones in my corner, like these two and Charles and Abby, who are like the best fire people ever, Bri and Aaron, like just all of the staff here were just so welcoming and so wonderful to us and our family. And [snorts] I just knew it was going to be a space for us to heal. And it really has been that. And we are now 5 years next week, October 25th.
Crazy.
Wow. Thank you.
Yeah. Is like it's actually amazing. And I was sitting there last night with my three kids looking down the row going, "This should not be our story." the fact that my three kids are here with their hands raised. My daughter's standing on the stage dancing like >> this should not be our story. If you know, you know, I've grown up in church, so seeing what happens usually in a situation like ours, >> this [snorts] is not the normal. And um I'm grateful for people like you. I'm grateful for this church. I'm grateful for TC Nation. I'm grateful for everyone in this church. But >> and I'm obviously so grateful to Jesus >> um because he was patient with me >> and in my brokenness he was patient with me and knew my heart and I am just so grateful to be here and I'm also just want to >> you know we've been through a lot like the fire.
Yeah.
She has a great sense of humor guys. [laughter] That was authentic. But >> yeah, um but to this man >> who should have been taken out, um I am just so proud of you and your humility and your in your brokenness to take the time to heal and to do what was right for you and for your family. I just want to acknowledge you for all that you've done cuz it's not easy. [cheering]
[applause]
I don't think I answered the question, but there you go.
You did beautiful.
But that gave you enough time now. [laughter]
Yeah. I [sighs] I I think what what kills people in fires is smoke. And when you're in a fire, I think sometimes God's in the fire, the devil's in the smoke.
And if you can't see and you can't breathe and you can't think, you you can't function. And I think nobody can rescue you from the fire you're in. Everybody in here is in a fire. And it's your fire and it's you and God and whatever that is. But man, can friends it can clear out some of that smoke so you can start to see again.
Yeah.
And uh I'm just so grateful. You know, these are not sorrow tears. My kids know there's like 70 versions of tears cuz I always cry. These are hungry tears. It's all good. [laughter] And shout out to Ava and Charlie who are here. Came from college. And I love you >> Charlie Jane. And I love you, Ava. Bu and Roman has Oklahoma allergies. So, I don't know if this is online, but he's at home. Uh I I just I'm so grateful for you both. I'm grateful for this church. I think, you know, we didn't really have any uh any plans to re-engage to be honest with you, brother. And um I think when sometimes when you get out of a fire a little bit or maybe it's it's burnt down a little bit, you go from being on fire to being completely frozen. And I felt that. I didn't know what to do.
[snorts]
because we're not designed to live like that.
It's the opposite of who I am.
And when your fire, my sin, causes other fires that people had nothing to do with, but they have to deal with it. It's an extra kind of pain.
And I acknowledge that. You know, I've pastored a lot of people. It's a privilege and my mistakes hurt a lot of people >> and to be able to hold that in a place where it doesn't kill you.
Yeah.
It's a Holy Spirit job.
Y
but you got to get air to be able to hear that. And so God can lift your head and and help you hold things that you have no responsibility >> to try to hold and and what you two have always done always been. You [snorts] know, I really love you and I honor you as people. You know, people know y'all publicly and that's cool. But what TC is about, it's about these streets, brother.
People who aren't in them don't get it.
And we don't care
because Jesus is in the mix. He's in the fight. He's in the mud. He's in the pain. He's in the He's in the caves with the lepers. He's in where nobody else wants to go.
And I remember coming here and it's hard for me to keep it together. I'll be honest.
Brother, take your time.
Well, that clock is so big. [laughter] And nobody pays attention to that around here. So why is it up here? [laughter]
You need to put suggestion.
Submission. Suggestion.
Charles makeup. Submission. We submit. You have 40 minutes left.
But you know L there when couples go through stuff and every I don't know if any couples in here can relate to going through stuff. I know it's just us. No, we're we're we're here as well.
But you know, Lora didn't forgive me for three years. You know where it happened? Um this conference, >> the first time we came and I forget who it was, it might have been you. You you wanted spouses to pray for each other. And Laura looked at me, she said, "I cannot pray for you. I cannot pray for you." I say that's okay.
And we just sat there
because you created some weirdly Mike Todd supernatural atmosphere where we're waiting. We're waiting. We're waiting. And in church, we don't like to wait. We have places to go. No one knows where we're going, but we got to go there quickly.
And uh we sat there. We just held hands right there in third row. And she said, "I forgive you. I forgive you." And I felt like um you know because a fire will a fire will a fire will almost convict you >> about how how how closely you've been holding the wrong things.
People forget that about fires. So you come out of a fire and you're like, I I I the only words I needed to hear were from her. I don't care about what people say. You got to get over that quickly if you're in a public fire. Because [snorts] if the people criticizing you are not helping clean up the ashes, I don't really care about your opinion. I really don't. God bless you and your Tik Tok and your commentary and your blog and your email. God bless you.
We got to be over here. We got to figure out how to live.
And so to hear that from her and then my children, you know, to be able to uh just be in a place to to thaw out. I feel like if I had to describe our family when we got here, it was a chunk of ice sat right there. And you have to be around heat to thaw.
And I when we came here, it was so different than the Hillsong church world that we knew in in beautiful ways. Both are beautiful in their own right, but the the way that TC rolls, it just it it what did Rose say? Or somebody says the hit that you don't see coming. And I was like I this will be good for my family, but I you know I don't I don't know. And I just was looking like an idiot up there. tissues. Johnisha is giving me tissues. She putting blankets on me. Shout out to Jay. And uh I just started to feel God's presence, you know, and I and we learned in the fire that God has time >> and I think people feel pressure, >> you know. I sat next to a brother last night was going through it and I just said, "Man, I'm glad you're here. God's not worried." I didn't know that that aspect of Jesus. I didn't I'd never I'd never had to experience that. I didn't want to. I wouldn't have picked it, but people used to say that's easy for you and Laura to say because y'all have it all together. It's easy to say God is good.
Well,
well, well,
still good.
Still holy, still the way maker, still the chain breaker, still the grave robber, still the one that can lift the weary. He's still the one that will meet you in places where nobody else will go. That's the same guy on the mountaintop that we found right here in the valley in Tulsa, the gathering place. So, in case you wonder,
in case you wonder,
in case you wonder,
I would have preferred to give victory from the mountaintop sermons my whole life. But I think when God created us, knew we would get married before we were even breathing air.
He didn't cause me to sin and destroy and burn a lot. Those are my choices.
I did that. I was not a victim. I was not a part of some big mega church that made me do things and I was some I made choices. I did those things. And when you reckon with those choices and you give those consequences to God, there's just nothing you cannot get through.
Nothing. So, I don't know what anybody in here might be going through, but I can tell you I am confident >> that my family is evident. hard.
I can say that
it's been it's been ugly. It's been hard. There have been some crazy I remember calling you one day like, "I'm coming over and I'm going to fight you."
Yeah.
Cuz I can't fight a lot of other people. Yeah.
And you said, "Okay,
let's do it."
And I think I paced up and down your street for a while and you were just like,
I say, I remember that.
I'll be here. You're just there doing what you do and I'm pacing.
Yeah.
And then I left. They're like, "I'll see you later. Well, just clear out the smoke because you can't stop a fire. I got to get through this myself. But my gosh, what if God has created us to be able to be around some people who are really hurting?
The healer is going to heal.
The deliverer will deliver.
But what a privilege we have to just make it a little bit more bearable.
Yeah.
We didn't need, you know, and and and when you get healthy, I think you hold things differently. I think we start
that the the fire will fool you. And sometimes it's not that you don't have friends in the fire, it's that you're focusing on the people who have left rather than the ones you actually have.
Yeah.
That's the smoke trick. Smoke will do that. Smoke and mirrors.
Yeah.
And once we shifted to not be bitter about who left because they had their reasons. That's their journey. It's not my business. My business is my life.
Yeah. making sure I honor this woman and making sure I
never put my family in a place like that.
Yeah.
Again. Yeah.
Um can we thank God for that transparency, y'all? Can we thank God that the lenses are still here?
Only God.
Oh, you could do better than that. This is proof. This is evidence of God's faithfulness. The reason we did this session, me and Natalie talked about it, is because as I preached yesterday from Daniel and talked about Shadrach, Meshach, and Abedneo, the beautiful thing that I found out is none of them were alone in the fire.
God in his grace, even though it was seemingly an unfair situation, sent them in there with company. And um it actually costs something. It's a sacrifice to get into something with somebody um not knowing what the outcome will be.
Yes.
I think I told Natalie cuz our hope is that you see the power of getting into the right fires.
Yeah. But you don't just go running into other people's fires if you do not have, watch this, the ability to handle
what God's doing in their life. Me and Natalie and our team and our staff, we knew what this was. Sad to say, we knew by standing with a brother and sister who who are going through the fire that people would judge us just for helping them, which
is crazy. Make no sense.
It is crazy. But people are crazy. We knew we had reporters and people trying to do pieces and why would you hire this person and why would you bring them on and is he going to be a new pastor and he Carlint has never preached on this stage being here for three years. [laughter] [cheering]
I don't know if that was a prophetic word or not. Y'all, this is crazy.
Let me say something real quick, brother. I think I think what we both laughed at is that you would you you wouldn't let me finish the sentence, you know. No, no, not not here. I'm saying I remember back then I said, "Brother, I don't
you got enough heat from idiots."
Yeah.
And if you're in the game, you know what I mean? I mean, there's You can find out a lot about who's criticizing you.
You want to make sure it's the right people. And what I've always loved about Mike, you know, I knew I knew Mike right before he became, you know, somebody who God God was using worldwide. And I just remember thinking, "This brother right here, he's a problem for the devil." And even my favorite memory of you is we were at a conference and uh Rich Wilkerson, who runs a great church in Miami, he said, "Hey, watch this." So, because we're about to play the promo, watch this place go crazy for this guy, Mike Todd. I'm like, "Yeah, well, I'm I'm in the promo, too. you know, and they announced the speakers for next year and people and then you would have thought I I don't you would have thought the place erupted and I'm like who is this dude from Tulsa?
That's how I feel.
And then you
for him. Oh my god.
I couldn't I love you. I love you.
Hey, let her cook. It always ends well. Come on.
But and you you came down into this green room and it was you and your typical 97 people. Mostly your incredible brothers >> and you had cameras and they threw a bunch of people off and I was like, let me let me let me because that's just not what you do. You don't roll into church green rooms that you haven't been in with cameras. Mike Todd does. You know why? Because Mike Todd doesn't care. has been doing that and that's what people didn't get. And you were like, I'm just filming stuff. It's all evidence. And I was like, this guy, this guy, this guy. I mean, what's next? You're going to start YouTubing sermons? I mean, come on, bro. [cheering] So, I knew that you were cut from a a different cloth, which what I didn't know I just didn't know how deep your roots were, brother. I did not.
And to get here and to see Bishop and to see what this church is really about >> because there's always a narrative about a church. Then there's the actual church. And I'm just just so grateful to to have the privilege of uh coming to a place where we could thaw, we could heal, we could, you know, re-engage in a new way with Jesus that uh was different than we've ever known. We've been doing a ministry since we were 22 years old, bro.
22. We didn't we didn't know what was what it was like to not lead.
And it was uh it was a really beautiful hard journey. Um, but you know, we're going to be going through it the rest of our life together. And uh, I feel like if Ephesians 3:20 is true, if you cry out for friends in a fire, you might end up finding family.
So, I wish I could get through that stronger, but that's been our story. You know, Randy Bazette down in Florida, one of the first pastors that said, "I don't care. Come on, man. You know, come come in church." a couple other people, Dino Rizzo, and then you two to step up into that space knowing that people would say what they were going to say. But what I was going to mention earlier is that you and I have always been about restoration back to life.
Back to life.
And what these people never got is like this guy's going to get back in ministry. Like ministry,
I'm trying not to take my life.
I'm trying to see if my daughters will look at me >> and trust me ever again. you think I'm coming to Tulsa to preach and you just and then the Holy Spirit reminds you handle what you got to handle >> and you came to Tulsa for a reason and uh I'm grateful that you don't care about ministry like that. We've never had one conversation except for about, you know, 48 hours ago when you said this and I was like, I [laughter] but I'm grateful for the the culture that's been built here. And I'm grateful that there are churches still that uh are not afraid of the hottest fires. And I I believe that's the best picture of who Jesus is. I feel like if our churches look like the way Jesus walked,
we're good.
And how did he walk? He walked with a bunch of people that, you know, didn't really fit in. He walked into the worst spaces and dominated. He walked into places nobody wanted to be. And he brought life. He walked up to people that everybody else had written off and said, "I write you in."
Yeah.
And I think that's the new opportunity for the kingdom of God in general. And I see it happening. It's happening. We just It might not get the algorithm bump it needs because that's filled with the idiots.
But if you know, you know. God is moving. Christians are not obsolete and annoying. There's so many amazing people even in this in this room. You walk around TC for a couple minutes, you're going to find some amazing people. But we're grateful. And as you know, the story is to my right. You know, this woman here, she had every reason in the world,
biblically and just logically
to opt out,
and she's only ever opted in. I hope you
go ahead.
Um, one time I was trying to describe Laura for her birthday and I told her it was very I said, "This is going to sound strange." I said, "But you're like, uh, I think we had to give you one word to describe you or something around the table." And I said, "She, Laura, you're like broth." And she was like, "Okay. I said, "You're like a good broth. Something you've been soaking that ham hawk and the water and boiling it pretty much to where you could put almost anything in it and it will make it taste good." You know what I mean? And so Laura to the core of her is a nurturer. But when I tell y'all the knuck of you buck that that Laura has, I mean I everyone in this room would be shocked. That's why I love her. She's a writer. But I say all that to say that her seemingly weakness is no by no way weakness because I remember you also made it clear that you would leave Carl like I have no reason to stay and you made it very clear that it's what God told you to do and that at any moment if it did not feel like he was um
doing the work
doing the work
doing the work
you were you were out
and that did you [laughter]
do your back
and she decided to work on herself too cuz she needed to work. And um I just wanted to say that because I feel like a lot of times women that decide to stay just get this false narrative like coding over them that somehow like if that was me I would have never done like it ain't never have has it happened to you? Like hello obviously it hasn't. shut her down. But this woman, she did the work. She realized she needed work, too. Laura, I'll let you talk about it. I'm sitting here talking hyping you up. I love you. Um, but she did the work. She got counseling, learned about codependent crap, which I also, you know, we all got something first of all. But anyway, she did the work for herself by herself, for just her, not work so that she can make this work. She did it for her. And let's see where this leads. And I'll be gracious enough by God to stay to see how this walks out. And um
and this is what I want to say. We only have a few moments left. And I mean, the time is gone. Is this good to y'all? Does this help? Is this at Transformation Church? It's crazy, but we've had a culture code since the beginning that we would live hot.
It's crazy with a conference called faith in the fire.
What were we think?
But that means humble, open, and transparent.
And um I just want to say that I have been their pastor for almost three years.
And that is the wildest statement I looked up to Carl and Laura as ministry heroes.
And I want to I want to be very clear about us all walking in the the spaces and places that God calls us to because you never know when you saying yes will be the exact thing God needs for you to rescue and help be his hand of extension to somebody else. me saying yes to God allowed me to be this man and woman's not just friend, not just um uh employer, but their pastor. And the reason I say this is because there are not many places that a African-American couple that is younger than um the people you're talking about who have less experience >> than the people you talk about would submit their lives.
Mhm.
Now, I have to highlight this because I need everybody to know that there have been times where me and Carl have disagreed. And I want to be very clear about this so that you know that when a friend steps into a fire, it doesn't mean that you don't have friction. See, a lot of times when a friend steps into a fire, it's like, "Thank you just for being here with me, and you know, we're just going to burn together and we're just going to, you know, like that's But there were times where Carl wanted to say things, to start things, to do ventures, and he would come to me cuz our deal was, hey, I'm going to stand in here with you, but we're not going to be stupid." And so if you're thinking about anything or you have something on your heart, we got to talk about it first.
And I didn't know if this was going to work >> because we took a step of faith and he said, "I'll let you know everything." And for three years, he's come to me, yo, I got this idea. I'm about to d and I would look him in face and I'd let him talk and he'd have the PowerPoint presentation, have the people already called up to do it, and I'd be like, it's not time. You can't do that.
And this was the test >> of could this be something that you were protected from while you were still healing in the fire.
And I can think of four like real big times where there were times where I said no. And it was no. And I want you to hear what I'm saying because the humility that it takes to know you can do something.
Absolutely.
And got all the connections to do the thing >> and have the people on speed dial and I'm not talking about people who can't. I'm talking about people who can.
Yeah.
And for you to listen to the person who's standing in the fire with you.
It don't happen.
This does not usually happen. And so I'm telling you that this is not just an example for a platform. I'm telling you stuff behind the scenes >> to let you know for three years they have watch this word allowed me and Natalie to pastor them.
This now I need you to hear me say this because some of y'all ain't done nothing and won't allow your pastor to pastor you.
You go to that church but you don't listen. No, hear me. You left that last church cuz you said, "This is my husband." They said, "Y'all not ready. Would you at least do counseling? Ain't nobody going to tell me what God didn't tell me. He done told me. And I'mma just And hey, >> I'm being honest with you. Our generation has to learn how to be submitted, sub to the mission."
And the mission was healing.
I'll say it like this. For me, the mission was Charlie.
The mission was Ava.
The mission was Roman.
And I just knew that there were certain things that if it happened prematurely, watch this. Sometimes you need a friend in the fire that is not going to agree >> with what you're feeling. this health and healing. I can't even tell you that all three of us can say that you are a completely different person.
Oh yeah.
Than you were three years ago.
I wish I had a side by side.
It was physically he looked different.
He looked horrible.
It was a broke down rockstar. Broke down.
Tough time. It was a tough time.
I mean, dang.
No, no, no. He looked like Let me say something about this. It's kind of rough maybe.
No, not rough. He looked horrible.
No, I'm saying the time he was like,
"Oh, it was a rough time."
It was a rough time.
It was a rough time.
I feel like horrible is a stretch. I mean,
you It's documented that when when people are in a fire, it they they accuse the people getting them out of being callous a lot. And I know a lot of Christians, they they will complain about people who don't show up and they I wish I had some friends in the fire. And I say, you probably don't because they're going to tell you things that you do not want to hear.
Yeah.
So before you complain about, why isn't anybody in a fire?
Why might that be?
Wow.
Yikes. And I feel like there has to be if you're in a fire today and you're ready for God to bring in some people to clear out some smoke, just be prepared for it to be extraordinarily uncomfortable.
And if you lean into it, it's amazing how this road of health will open up bit by bit, day by day. But nobody's ever rebuilt a house that's burnt down in an instant.
No. No.
There's a lot that goes into that. And and you and many times have been the the person who's like, "We we need to leave here." And you can't take that picture.
But I love this picture. I get it. But we don't have room in this evacuation transformation hovercraft. You won't have room for it. And will you in those moments trust the people around you?
And I think a lot of people who have been lonely in fires is not because God left them or people won't come. It's that they just won't live a life that has a capacity that's big enough to allow them to be challenged in the fire. And to me, that's the mark of a Christian. I'm not really interested in your testimony pre-fire, to be honest.
I like it. It's awesome.
Yeah.
But my Lord, I I want to see want to see how you respond when it gets really hot. Today, I hope that this small conversation that I honestly think is more of a picture that I want everybody in here to snap in your mind. You need to be Nat and I on the couch or Carl and Laura on the couch and across from you. I feel like you need to be that friend in the fire for somebody. Who could you be more involved with? Who could you pray for? Who could you call and check on? Who could you actually say, "No, come work with me." Who could you lend your influence to? Who could you provide a safe place for them to heal so that the next version of who they are to become can touch even more people than what they did before. I'm asking everybody under the sound of my voice to become friends in the fire. You didn't come to this conference just to get it for yourself. God asked all of us to get healed but then become healed healers.
I want to say like yes. Amen. But I wanted to
I don't like I don't like that.
I mean yes and yes and amen that a lot of times the church says I need they're healed but some aspects some situations I like
heal action. And it's an action word because some things are daily like me and Mike's fire with MJ. It's an everyday grieve, and if it doesn't change, then it's heal. It is, I am, I'm healing. It's a consistent thing. And I hope I'm not overstepping you guys, but it's a healing that you guys are doing.
She said, "I we need to come to Tulsa to a safe place to heal, not get healed. It's not over." And the church has sometimes a way of sprinkling Jesus dust on stuff like, "Okay, they got healed and now they're about to become ministers of the church." You called what?
"No, don't even mention that." [laughter] "Stop. Keep going." He was completely playing, guys. But anyway, that we'll put sprinkle dust on stuff to say like, "Okay, that was over. Everything should be perfect from now on and we're good to go." It's like sometimes it's not like that, and you don't, and you need friends for those type of fires that testimonies you're talking about. You need friends that will be there through those type of temperature of fires where it will be a healing. It's a healing journey. They're here for the marathon. And, um, yeah, I love it.
"I think the only reason you got something, Carl, right there." Because I just, I feel like I felt it last night, and I do feel like this conference can be, and I do think conferences are important. You know, we live in an age where people will make fun of things that are emotional and cool for whatever reason, as if that's bad. And the momentum that was created in here. I want you to understand that the fire that people saw, maybe you saw the end result of our fire. There were so many, I was on fire for a long time, brother.
It was just smaller. Fires don't go anywhere. And so if you have a small fire in your life right now, there will be an avenue. I had so many opportunities where God in his grace fixed this now. And I didn't put out the fire. I just tried to like push it and keep going. Fire will chase you down unless you make a decision to shut it off.
"Yeah." "And there is somebody in here who has such an amazing call." "Yeah." "And you have a little fire. There's nothing to be ashamed about. We all do. What if you didn't allow that thing to grow? What if it is as easy as being honest one time? And maybe you don't ever have to."
"Maybe some of the pain that you've spectated others walk through, you never have to participate in." And it's as easy as looking at somebody today going, "Hey, will you pray with me? I'm going to be honest for the first time. I want this to be a safe space." Make sure you know the person, but get in the habit of putting out fires right away. Because it's not just about you. It's about the people that are behind you. The legacy that God's going to use you to build. You have no idea what your future holds. But it's not burning up because you didn't do something in a moment like this where God gave you a moment. Not just to save your life, but to maybe save a future that you haven't even imagined yet.
"Yeah." "That's my plea is that you don't have to wait till everything's burning down." "Come on." "God is so gracious. Well, he will meet you exactly where you are today." "Yeah." "Exactly where you are. He will pour out his grace and you will feel his power lift your head. I don't care what the fire looks like."
"I know that God has a record of undefeated." "Yeah." "When it comes to putting out fires for people that will be honest enough to say, 'Lord, will you help me here today?' Um, I feel like what we were supposed to do in this session is done. We painted a picture of what it looks like to be on the other side of some really hard fires and walk with each other through it and still be smiling after it, you know. But the only reason you can um really see this type of picture on stage is because of what happens offstage. What I'm asking everybody to do is really live like Jesus outside of here. Like, no, guys, hear me for real, please. Like, there are people that are hurting, dying, and you might be, and they need people that aren't judging first, aren't close so they can have gossip and say, 'Guess what? I found out.' They need people to be an extension of the hands and feet of Jesus. And I'm asking us in this room, if nobody else ever does it, can we represent? Can we be ones to change the narrative? Can you have capacity to hold and make space for other people's faults? That's not something I'm asking. That's scripture. The scripture says that would you that we should have margin for other people's missteps, cuz people need each other. Just as Carl Lord needed us in a season, who knows? We may need them in a season. The same thing should be for the entire kingdom. And I just, I feel led to tell this story. The only reason honestly that we could step in to y'all's fire is because when the spit hit the fan for me, y'all, y'all know what I'm talking about, right? Okay. Just making sure. When the spit hit the fan for me, um, I got a call from Bri and Aaron, who are our real friends, who was like, 'Y'all good?' And I was like, 'Good? Yeah, I'm fine. What's going on?' She was like, 'Have you been on social media?' I was like, 'No.' She was like, 'Don't go on there.' I said, 'Why not?' Then I went on social media, started see I said, 'What the?' And Bri and Aaron were headed to Napa the next day for a just a little vacation thing. And my friends called me that night and said, 'Y'all should come with us tomorrow. It's 6:00 p.m. They're leaving at 8:00 a.m.' They stepped into our fire and was like, 'Hey, let's get out of here. Let's leave our cell phones and let's go spend five days together in what's real.' And because my friends stepped in the fire with us when that happened. And I saw how five days of sitting at a vineyard, eating cheeseburgers, watching old movies, and remembering God's faithfulness, how it literally saved my soul from becoming intoxicated with poison of hate. That four days saved my life cuz I had friends that stepped into the fire with me because I experienced that. Watch that. I could give it away."
"I'm asking you to get into a fire with somebody. They don't have to be famous and nobody has to know. It is not for you to be like in a fire with some people. Hey, look at all y'all left. Huh? But we here."
"That's mishandling God's real treasure." "And I want to challenge everybody to just one day. I'm throwing it out there for my generation. We're done with this session cuz y'all got to get changed and come back tonight. That's basically all you going to have time to do. But maybe handling money, I know this is going to seem left field, but I feel led to say I'm obey God. Maybe handling money is a bigger test than you think. Because there's a scripture that I read that said, 'If you can't handle unrighteous mammon,' which is the currency of the time. He said, 'If you can't handle that, then I can't allow you to handle true riches, which are people.' And some of us do not handle our finances properly. We don't tithe. We don't honor God. We don't honor things. And God's saying, 'This is not about money. I'm trying to make sure you can handle something before I allow you to touch what I really want you to handle. If you won't steward this little bit of the streets are paved with gold, I don't need money. I need your practice to handle things that most people squander cuz I actually want to trust you with people. I know the only reason that God trusted us with Carl and Laura is because of lessons he taught us in different seasons with something that even didn't really mean that much. Guys, let's be the church and let's be friends who get in the fire. We don't condone the things that go against God's word, but we love the people who do the things that go against God's word because all have sinned. Uh-oh. And fallen short of the glory of God. But what a beautiful story of restoration."
"Can we thank God for Carl and Laura at Transformation Church? It's in the name. We believe that people can transform. Can we thank God for the gifts, the transparency, and the life and love. Come on, let's stand here. Grab somebody's hand, y'all. We're about to leave, but I want to pray. Father, thank you. Thank you for your grace that's covering all of us right now. Thank you for your love that is in this room. Thank you for your peace that is guarding hearts and minds. And thank you for your wisdom for us to know what fires that we are called to step into. God, I thank you for what you're doing in each person under the sound of my voice. And God, we declare for every person that feels alone in the fire right now, would you divinely send the right people to stand with them in the name of Jesus? God, I thank you for every single mother that you're sending men of God into their life to help be a godly influence to those children. Father, for every man, Father, that needs business sense and needs, Father God, a group of brothers to surround them. I thank you, Father, for every person, Father God, that's doing ministry and they feel like they don't have any help. Send the right people to be godly friends in the fire. Today I thank you that we will step into everything you've called us to because you've called us to be your hands and feet on this earth. Give a passion that matches your heart. We love you. We thank you in Jesus name. Somebody say we agree."
"We agree. We expect." "Amen." "Let's give God some praise."