Transcription
Soda versus kombucha. Both are carbonated. Both are sweet. But when it comes to your gut, there is a big difference. Let's nerd out and find out all about it.
[Music] [Applause] Oh my friends, welcome to the exam room live, brought to you by the Physicians Committee. Hello, I'm the weight loss champion, Chuck Herald. Thank you so very much for watching and downloading in more than 150 countries around the world and making the exam room one of the most consumed nutrition podcasts anywhere on the planet today. And today, we are putting fizzy drinks under the microscope. Both are sweet, as I said, both can be delicious, but when it comes to your gut and your health, they can be very, very different. We are talking about kombucha. We are talking about soda. Probably a couple of other things. Putting them head to head to see just how differently your body is going to react to them and giving us a breakdown as a man who needs no introduction. But we're going to give him one anyway, because he's the doc with the drop on your number two, dropping gut science like a high-flying move from the ring of the gut to the stage with the mic. He's part gastronerd, all WWE hype. Fibrous's jam and Pearl Jam's his band, with kombucha in one and a textbook in hand. Is soda a no? When it comes to gut health, the goal, he's the king of the colon on a microbiome roll. So, let's flush the myths and raise the roof. Dr. B is here to talk about your poop. And with that, we welcome Dr. Will Bulawitz back to the exam room live. What's up, dude?
What's up, my man? You know what? That reminded me of like a weird Yankovic song from when we were kids. That was like, that could literally be a song. You just needed a beat in the background, and it would have been a, it would have been. I loved me some Weird Al. Yeah, he was good stuff, man. He was. Yeah, to this day, I still listen to a couple of his songs. I don't know that they're as politically correct as they once were, or weren't a different time, but man, his cover of that Michael Jackson song, "Bad," but that was pretty good. Pretty, pretty good.
So, uh, anyway, if you have a question for the good, the good gut doctor, go ahead, drop it in the comment or in the chat. We're going to get to as many as we can here on the program today. And also, on the flip side of our, uh, discussion about kombucha and soda, uh, we're going to be talking about my recent trip to the Mayo Clinic, so stay tuned for updates there. But here's the deal. Uh, Dr. B, when I was talking about things that we wanted to discuss here on the show today, I was flipping through your Instagram as I often do, and I saw you talking about this, and I was like, "Huh, this is a really good topic." So, you have soda, all right? Can of Diet Pepsi that's going to affect your gut one way, or kombucha, also a sweet fizzy drink, going to have a completely different impact on your gut. Break it down for us, man.
Well, there's lots of choices, Chuck. And so I think what we start with is like, what can we drink that's healthy? And most of them are not, unfortunately. And the problem is that we're not, I, I think that we like dismiss water, good old water, as being boring. When in fact, it's a health drink. Water is a health drink. And so if I were to start where I would start is to say, we should all be investing into a reverse osmosis filter in our home. That's where I would start. And if you actually use it, you will save a ton of money on both of those things that you showed. That being said, why the reverse osmosis filter? What makes that so, you know, important versus just a regular water filter?
Well, so the reverse osmosis, basically what's happening is they have this, this filter, this membrane that has very, very small holes. So small that like basic electrolytes can't even flow through it. Now, that may sound bad, and I'll explain that in a moment. But if you can't get electrolytes to flow through it, then you sure as heck can't get the pesticides to flow through it, or the antibiotics to flow through it, or the glyphosate to flow through it, or some of the other things that we know exist within our water supply, even as it comes out of the tap. And so what you get on the other side is you get pure water. And then you have the option with your water filter. This is what we invest into in our home. And like, we, once you make the upfront investment, the cost is very, very small. Um, we have a, uh, a filter that actually replaces those electrolytes and brings them back. So that way, it's not just water. You also have the electrolytes that you need in there. But like, we go to the store, Chuck, and we pay for, you know, Dasani. And if you read the bottle of Dasani, it's not coming out of a spring. It's coming out of someone's reverse osmosis filter. It's Coca-Cola's reverse osmosis filter. They just are running stuff through reverse osmosis. And you pay so much for that bottle, and it's plastic. And there's concerns that we have, which we can talk about more, that the plastic bottle is shedding microplastics into the beverage. So what started as a super healthy water drink that was reverse osmosis filtered is now potentially a vehicle for carrying microplastics into your body, which are problematic. So the point from my perspective is, with it, when it comes to this, is like, we should start in the home. And the healthiest beverage that exists that I will be able to vouch for 50 years from now, no matter what we learn, no matter what we learn, this will still be the healthiest beverage 50 years from now. And that is that when you run your water through a reverse osmosis filter, you get pure, clean water. And that's what your body needs in order to function properly, including your gut microbiome, including your bowel movements. I'm telling you.
So the microplastics kind of has me on tilt. Recently, I did the show recently with Dr. Ornish, and she was talking about this study that they did where they looked at the brains of, uh, people, and they found that on average, a person has about as much plastic in their brain as it takes to make a plastic spoon that you would eat at a, that you would use at a picnic or something like that. I was like, "Oh my god." And that's just the brain, man. We're not talking about any other organ throughout the body. That's just the brain. That's insane to me, man. Insane.
Insane. In the membrane. Insane in the brain. Yeah. All right. Uh, back to soda versus kombucha here, because that is the, the, the call of the day. Um, we might, and we might circle back to the microplastics, but pull up that Diet, pull up that Diet Pepsi can for me. Chuck, could you read those ingredients live here on the air?
Yeah, I absolutely can. So, uh, carbonated water, uh, caramel color, aspartame, phosphoric acid, potassium benzoate, caffeine, citric acid, natural flavor, uh, as full of flame as, as full of flame, and potassium. So, uh, also contains, uh, phenylalanine. So, probably don't want to mess with that. Yeah. Yeah.
So, I was a chemistry major in college. Most of what you said was gibberish to me. Um, like the vast majority of those things, no one in America knows what they actually are. Um, aspartame is an artificial sweetener. And now, like, don't get me wrong, because the people who defend aspartame, they lose their minds and they pull out their hair over this stuff, which shocks me how defensive they get that I would attack their precious Diet Pepsi or Diet Coke. But like, don't get me wrong, one aspartame is not going to kill you. We know that. That's how it got approved in the first place. The question is, what happens when you make this your beverage of choice in order to propel your energy levels during the day, which a lot of people do? What happens when you drink Diet Coke or Diet Pepsi that has aspartame on a daily basis? And you know, the problem is that we were inappropriately reassured by the idea that it has zero calories, right? So, sugar has calories, therefore it must be bad. Aspartame has no calories, therefore it must be good. And the problem is that just because it has no calories, doesn't mean that it doesn't have an effect on your body. In particular, on your gut microbiome, because it's going to enter into your mouth, you swallowed it, and now it's going to wiggle its way down to your 38 trillion microbes, and they're going to come into contact with this. And what we know with clarity is that the effects of aspartame on the gut microbiome are not beneficial. It affects the microbes. It affects the gut barrier. And it puts you in a position of vulnerability. Now, is it worse than sugar? I would argue probably not. Probably not. It's hard to like totally say with clarity because we have the food industry that's desperately trying to protect both of these things. So, there's a number of studies that try to make it confusing for us, including me, but I think sugar is probably worse than aspartame. But again, what I come back to is, why are we rocking the aspartame?
Now, let's go over to the kombucha, Chuck. Read the ingredients to me.
All right. Uh, would you prefer Mystic Mango or Honey Crisp Apple? I've got both. Oh, that's a tough one. Um, you know, knee-jerk reaction, let's go Honey Crisp. All right. Honey Crisp. This is one that I have not tried. Uh, and I definitely will here in just a moment. All right. Ingredients. Uh, GT's Kombucha, uh, cold-pressed honey crisp apple juice. That's it. So, there you go. So, yep. Anything else? No. No added. Well, it says three grams of added sugar. I would assume that is coming from. Oh, wait. No. Here we go. GT's Kombucha ingredients. A 30-day ferment of kombucha culture, black tea, green tea, kiwi juice, and a pinch of cane sugar. Yes. Okay. So, let's break this down. And is it organic? Uh, it is. It doesn't say on here, so I'm going to assume not. Okay. Um, okay. Sounds good. Oh, wait. Yes. Organically produced. I was going to say, I thought, I thought the GT's was. So, okay. Damn.
Well, so let's start off, like, what is kombucha? Kombucha is the product of fermentation of sweet tea. So, I live in Charleston, South Carolina. You go to any restaurant downtown in Charleston, they're going to ask you, do you want tea? And if you say yes, they're going to give you a choice. Do you want sweet or unsweet? Sweet tea is an old southern tradition where basically you boil the tea and you start pouring the sugar in and you make it as sweet as you possibly can so that the sugar is coming out of your ears. Yep. Okay. Now, if you take that same sweet tea that's so popular in the South, and you add kombucha to it, that kombucha contains the microbes, both bacteria and yeasts, that are necessary in order to transform that sweet tea. And what those microbes will do, Chuck, is they will consume the sugar, not to zero. There still will be sugar in there, but you will notice what emerges is acid. And what disappears is a lot of the sweetness. A lot of the sweetness starts to fade. And the reason that this is is that the sugar is being consumed and transformed into organic acids. And so what you get is a transformation where it is no longer sweet tea. This is kombucha. No one would describe that as sweet tea anymore. It's acidic as heck. So, and that kombucha has potential health benefits despite the fact that it does contain sugar. Like, we're never going to be zero sugar, nor should we try to be, because if you're zero sugar, then you're not eating fruit. You're not eating wonderful plant-based foods. So when it comes to this drink, the benefits that you get are that we have now research that suggests that the, the organic acids help us in terms of our metabolism, in terms of blood sugar control, in terms of weight loss. Um, that the live microbes reduce inflammation and also may protect your gut microbiome. So you get all of these benefits. What I described are benefits. I don't have evidence to say that drinking kombucha is going to damage your health. I do think we need to be careful about it with our teeth because it's so acidic. We can talk more about that if you want to, but I'm talking about a beneficial beverage, and the alternative choice is something where you don't know what the ingredients are. There's like 12 ingredients. Most of them you don't know what they are. And the ones that you do know are like the artificial sweeteners that are coming in contact with your gut microbiome and actually making it less healthy. So, I think between these two choices, to me, Chuck, the choice is clear. It doesn't mean that I would say that kombucha should be the backbone of your, of like, what you drink on a daily basis. If anything, it's in moderation. Water should be the backbone.
All right. So, nerd me up here a little bit more about how the sugar actually kind of gets, uh, decreased in here. So, that's something during the fermentation process where it actually eats the sugars, drops it down a little bit.
Yes. So, it's interesting, like if you think about, uh, sourdough bread, right? Sourdough bread. If we want to make this, all we need, Chuck, is flour and water. That's all we need. Yeah. Yeah. And you create a sourdough starter. And what's happening and the acidity that you get from that sourdough starter, the reason why it's sour dough is because those microbes are consuming the carbohydrate and producing acid, and it drops the glycemic index. So sourdough bread has a lower glycemic index relative to if you took the literally the exact same flour, added baker's yeast, and made a loaf of bread. You have a higher glycemic index if you don't ferment it. All right? The same is true with kombucha. Now, all ferments involve the consumption of carbohydrate by microbes. So, if it's sauerkraut, they're finding the carbohydrates that exist within the cabbage. Kimchi, same is true. Miso, same is true. But in this case, it's the added sugar. All right.
Um, so, would you say that kombucha is still, uh, given what it is, we're talking about, kombucha is a relatively safe drink for somebody who has type 1 or type 2 diabetes?
Yeah, I think so. I mean, so, um, we want to take steps like, you know, the, uh, there are plenty of people in the plant-based space, including Dr. Barnard, including Cyrus Khambatta, who have laid out for us a path towards improved blood sugar control, whether you have type 1, type two, pre-diabetes, insulin resistance, or none of the above. And it, it involves making choices that improve insulin sensitivity. And the suggestion is that vinegar and, and organic acids improve insulin sensitivity. So whether it's kombucha or whether it's a splash of apple cider vinegar, the belief that we have is that these things are improving our blood sugar control by enhancing our insulin sensitivity. It's not slowing down blood sugar absorption in the way that fiber does. It's a little bit different.
Gotcha. All right. And just to kind of put a cap on the soda part here, I mean, aside from this being a Diet Pepsi, if this were a full-blown regular sugar Pepsi, the effects on the gut, I mean, you said because it's regular sugar, may even be a little bit more detrimental.
Correct. Yeah. I mean, I would take the Diet Pepsi over the non-Diet Pepsi, given the choice between the two. Don't love either. Don't love either.
Right. Does it matter if it's like Mexican Pepsi where they use real sugar as opposed to like high fructose corn syrup or something like that?
I don't, unless you believe that the, the process of preparing the sugar is categorically different, right? Like, for example, if there were pesticides involved with one versus the other, unless you believe that process is categorically different, I don't believe that there's a substantial difference between high fructose corn syrup and, um, regular table sugar. All right. So, or cane sugar, you can, you can, you can dial it up and make it sound attractive, but it's the same thing. It functions the same way.
All right. I think we've reached the portion of the program where we do a taste test. So, all right. Oh. This is like ASMR. Wow. Yeah, you can really smell. There is a vinegarish smell to this. It really does. It smells like almost apple cider vinegar. Uh, well, it's probably what they're going for. What's the total number of grams of sugar in there? Uh, total sugar, 14 per. That's in two serves or one serve? One serve. How many ounces? Uh, this is a 16. 16 fluid ounces. Yeah, 16 oz. Okay, cool. I mean, I don't think that 14 is the end of the world. It's gonna be hard to do a lot better than that without adding artificial sweeteners. Yeah. Um, the key from my perspective is that that bottle that you're holding there, Chuck, that would be three serves to me. Yeah. Cuz what I would do is I would pour it over ice and I would add water. Oh, you actually. So, when you, you said before the show that you cut it, like I didn't know like if that meant just like cut the bottle into three, but you actually thin it out with with some water. Huh? I thin it out with water because the issue is it's quite tart. It's quite acidic. Okay. And I'm worried that the acidity actually erodes the enamel on our teeth. Got. So that's the one thing that I do worry about when we do acidic beverages. So my thought is, let's just kind of dilute it out a little bit, slow it down, and enjoy it. Make that, make that bottle stretch.
All right. Please note, kombucha is a fermented tea that has naturally occurring alcohol. Everybody on the show is getting tips.
Well, so the amount that's in commercial is, um, they're required to maintain that less than 0.5%. So basically, what that means is this one proof. You know, if you think about a beer, most beers are, um, a very, very dilute beer would be 3.5%. And typical, like Bud Light's probably like 4.2 or 4.5, something like this. Yeah. So it's a very low amount. That being said, if you have a history of alcohol issues, um, this would not be a drink for you because you're better off having zero alcohol in your life. Yeah. So, well, so I think, uh, 0.5% is, you can still market the beer as non-alcoholic. So, this would just kind of go right in line with that. All right. Anyway, now, if you made it at home, you might have more, Chuck. If you, if you made it at home, you might have more alcohol in it potentially. I've got a lot of home brewers within my family, but not, uh, not with the kombucha.
All right. Here we go. All right. Here we go. That is quite tasty. Uh, very, I would say, on the tart side of things. Oh, but wait, that's got a pretty sweet finish. Very tart up front. You can taste the vinegar, but then that is quickly replaced by sweetness. Not bad. Not bad. I like the Mystic Mango a little better, but not bad. G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G GTs does it again. Yeah.
Do you want me to, can I, can I do a quick show and tell, Chuck? Or? Absolutely, man. You brought props. Let's use them.
All right. Well, um, so this is my Kirkland brand. And what I love about this is it's like a dollar a bottle. Nice. So if you, it's like slightly more than a dollar a bottle, whereas that GT's that you just held up is probably $3.50 or $4, something like that, right? So, and you're cutting your, you're cutting your cost substantially by rocking with this. It's very simple. It's organic, just literally organic kombucha and ginger juice and lemon and probiotics. That's all we got in here. So, um, and what I like to do is like, again, I'll, this will be half or a third of a bottle. Add water, and then I might add a splash of juice. Could be a blueberry juice, could be a pomegranate juice. I'll hold, I'll show, hold this up. Now, this is not my ideal. Um, but I'm going to point out what I do like about this. This is a pomegranate juice. What I like is the glass bottle. The concern that we have, Chuck, is that, uh, plastic is, is eroding into our drinks. So, we touched on this when we talked about plastic with water bottles, but what I want people to hear is that that Diet Pepsi that's in a can. All right. If that's in a plastic bottle, it's got citric acid. Anytime you have acid in contact with plastic, you are going to draw the microplastics out of the plastic. So, be very cautious and aware of plastic bottles that are in contact with acid. And that includes your soda. Your soda is acidic. So, I'm not a fan of those. Is the can better?
All right, Chuck. Here's another thing that I got. What you got?
This is an empty box. Drift. Yes. Yeah. All right. This used to be my health drink. This used to be my health drink. I had a change of heart on this. Uh oh. What happened? Yeah. Well, here's what happened. Um, as I became more thoughtful about this whole plastic issue, as the question, well, are the aluminum cans okay? And what I discovered is these aluminum cans are lined with a plastic sleeve. And then you put them under pressure with the carbonated drink. It's under pressure, right? We know this because you crack it, it goes. Right. That Diet Pepsi that you have there, Chuck. So, I'm worried that it's not just a plastic bottle thing. I'm worried that these cans are also lined with plastic and that the pressurization is problematic. So, and that would be a problem for acidic things. So, I will not buy kombucha in a can. And I also don't want particularly sodas in a can. And that includes what I just showed you. So, here's what I'm doing instead. Do you want me to show you?
Okay. What you got? What'd you get?
Uh, so I went to, I, I like, look, I was like a two-liter a day Diet Mountain Dew guy. You got to understand, I haven't had a diet. I, they used to deliver cases of it to the radio station just in hopes that we would talk about it, and I would drink like four or five or six of those per shift and think nothing of it other than, man, this tastes good. Oh, I loved it. I loved every second of it. And that's what it was designed to do to us. Yeah. That's what it was designed to do. That's not weakness. That's you being like taken advantage of by an industry that's hacking you. Right? So, I've moved away from that. And I tried to move into what I just showed you. And now I'm like, you know what? I need to find a better way to do this because I'm turning 45 this summer. I'm halfway to 90, but I want to make 90. Yeah. Yeah. You do. And my god, but I'm not far behind. Yeah. All right. So, so here's what, here's the deal with this. It's not the brand. It's not the brand. It's the glass. This is a carbonated, uh, mineral water, and it's in a glass bottle. So, I'm feeling really good about this. And what I'll do is I'll pour that over some ice and then I'll add a nice little splash of some juice. And then I have a nice tasting drink that's like conceptually the same as a Spindrift, but less healthy. I mean, more healthy without the microplastic exposure. So, um, you know, the other thing that I'll do is, here's my ACV. Yeah, man. Apple cider vinegar, raw and unfiltered. Or you might say, including the mother. What does that mean? What they're referring to is that this is fermented and they haven't pasteurized it. Raw and unfiltered, including the mother, means that it has not been pasteurized. You got live microbes in here. This is a fermented drink. It's basically a fermented drink concentrate. So, I like to add a splash of this. So, what I might do is I might do this over ice. Just a splash. Not much. Less than a tablespoon. Just a splash. All right. That counts as a fermented drink from my perspective. Or what I'll do is like, actually, I've been on this kick, Chuck, where I do my 38 Terra in the morning. So, I take a walk with my wife, with my kids outside, get my morning sunlight, and I come home and I fire up, I got actually right here. I fire up my 38 Terra. This is, I'm almost done with it, and I add a splash of the apple cider vinegar to that. And now I've turned my, my 38 Terra into both a prebiotic and probiotic drink.
So, how did the flavors blend? I would imagine actually kind of well. I mean, kind of the tartness blended with the sweet at that, at that point.
That's right. So, the, the, uh, the apple cider vinegar cuts the sweetness and it gives it more, uh, more punch. So, the acidic punch is very nice. I'm a big fan of acid, in case you can't tell. Right.
Uh, let's go ahead and clip that and put that one up on social media. Dropping acid. Dropping acid. There's a book, uh, a few years ago. I forget who wrote that, but.
All right. Last thing for show and tell. Yep. I went to the store and this was at Costco, and I found this, and I was, you know, look, I'm a dad. I got four kids. All right? So, I mean, Dad's Old Fashioned Root Beer. Yeah. So, you're like, "Oh, old-fashioned. This sounds attractive. Premium root beer. Okay, we are on to something now. I can have my soda and be healthy." And I brought it home. I'm dumb. I'm dumb. I fell for it. They got me. Chuck, I'm as vulnerable as you and anyone else, man.
What you got, brother?
So, the brain wasn't working. I fell for the trap. I brought it home. I look. So, remind me, Chuck, how many grams of sugar in your kombucha? 16 ounces. Uh, that would be 14 total. Got it. All right. This is 12 oz. But let's pretend they're even. And you know what? I'm going to take your 14 and I'm going to triple down on that. Down on that. We have 44 grams of carbohydrates, of which 43 are added sugars. Oh, 43. So, this one bottle provides 90% of your added sugars. If you were, if this was good for your health, you would want this because you would get 90% of what you need in one bottle. But this is the opposite of good for your health. So, you're getting 90% of what you don't need in one bottle. Wow. Um, and so, Chuck, so suffice it to say that like, I bought these a few months ago, and if anyone wants some root beer, come on over to my house. I'm happy to hand them over because they're collecting dust, bro.
Well, they're show and tell. They're show and tell on the Exam Room podcast now. That's all they're good for. I mean, you're a Costco shopper. I'm, I'm a fan of Costco as well. Uh, when I was up visiting my dad, we went to the one near him in Queens, New York. Got it. And I saw this case of soda. It was Slice. And I remember Slice as a kid growing up, orange soda. But now it looks like Slice, but then it has like health soda underneath of it. And I'm like, is it a health soda? Like, first of all, that's an oxymoron. Second of all, like, what makes this healthy? And I believe it's just because they've added vitamin C to it. Yeah. And now they're able to promote it as being a health soda. Yeah. So, I don't know that the gut, you tell me as a gastroenterologist, can the gut tell the difference between that health soda and regular orange juice?
Okay. Do you have a, do you happen to have a health soda with you, Chuck? I do not have a. Oh, well, I mean, I have a healthy soda. It's certainly not Slice. This is one of these prebiotic sodas. That's what I'm talking about.
Okay, hold it up. Hold it up. Here we go. Prebiotic. This is a Poppy brand. Yep. There we go. Poppy brand cherry limeade. And here's what it is made with: sparkling water, organic cane sugar, cassava root fiber, organic apple cider vinegar. There you go. ACV, cherry juice, natural flavors, lemon juice, lime juice, organic agave, and stevia. Got it. There you go. We got three sweeteners. Three sweeteners. One of which is stevia. So, it's not exactly the same, but agave is basically another word for sugar. Got the organic sugar so that we can, so that we can healthwash that and make it sound like it's healthier because it's organic. Okay, fine. I'll take it. But, and then you got the cassava root fiber, which is basically an inulin fiber. And so, you know, Chuck, like, here's the thing. Compared to the, uh, compared to the Diet Pepsi, fine, I'll take it. But, you know what? Give me the kombucha every day of the week against that, right? Give me that simple formula that's made with real stuff that you could make at home. You could make that kombucha bottle that you showed us at home yourself. So could I. I've done it many times. You can't make those other things that you showed us, Chuck.
And a quick comment, if you have gas and bloating, if you have gut issues, I just want to tell you a few things. First of all, when you drink carbonated drinks, they introduce gas into your body. So that gas is going to have to come out either through the top or the bottom. And so that's a setup for gas. But when you sprinkle the most gas-producing fiber that exists, which is inulin, you better be ready to fart because that's a fart drink. There it is.
Uh, but look, I mean, you want to talk about clever marketing? Here we go. Soda's back. Sweet, but with an edge. Are we describing you or the soda in your hand? That's one secret we'll never tell. XOXO. Juicier than a tabloid with five grams of sugar, ingredients you can love, and prebiotics. That's not just gossip, it's the truth. And then they market it right underneath as being gluten-free. So, yeah.
Well, so, so clever. I don't want to be excessively critical because the truth is, we have a problem in America. And sometimes when we're too puritanical about these things, we create expectations that like the real person who's out there, they're just never going to do that. Right? Right? So, if I sit here and say, "Hey, like, if I say to the version of myself and you, let's imagine that Will and Chuck from 2012 are sitting on a couch together, right? They're eating absolute trash. Absolute trash, right? They, they are drinking Diet, the biggest gulp of Diet Mountain Dew that you've ever come across. Like, it's at least 45 ounces of Diet Mountain Dew."
No doubt. That's where we're at. Okay. Uh, like, substitute in that, that prebiotic soda beverage. Definite upgrade. Definite upgrade. Give me a choice between that and kombucha. Give me the kombucha for sure. Give me a choice between water and kombucha. Mostly water, little bit of kombucha. That's what I want.
Flavor-wise though, I think that the old me would really have liked the kombucha, the Mystic Mango in particular. Do you think that your palate would have enjoyed kombucha back in the day?
You just like the mystic part of it, Chuck, don't you? It's pretty damn tasty, bro. It's not even the mango. It's the mystic. You're like a magical guy. You're kind of magical. Mystical. Yeah. Yeah. I enjoy the mysticism.
Well, but do you think that flavor-wise you would have liked it?
I think so. Yeah. Because I, I've always liked vinegar type stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So, I like, I like acidic type stuff. So, I think I would have. And, and it's interesting because the kombucha trend hadn't picked up yet back then, 2012. And it's also interesting because I wrote about, uh, and I started discussing fermented foods in 2016, and at the time, it's kind of funny because they were not mainstream. People were like, "What are you talking about?" And yeah, it's kind of, I mean, look, part of it was we needed more research to prove it, and we have that now. So, I'm quite happy to be standing on that podium still.
There you go. Early adopter way to champion the fermentation, my friend. All right, let's open up the doctor's mailbag. Take a couple of questions here before we get a health update. Uh, Amber, number one, are artificial colorings and preservatives found in soda considered carcinogenic? What do we know about that?
Um, so if they were truly considered carcinogenic, then we would be required to take them off the market. The issue is that what is considered a carcinogen often comes in shades of gray, and there's a political process in terms of where they will, uh, have things land. So, there's a difference between what is considered a probable versus a possible carcinogen. And that line that exists between those two, probable versus possible, I, I think it's a very blurry, challenging line because I feel like politics gets involved. So, and something will then be called possible. And that's enough doubt that people who want to defend an ingredient can make an adequate defense because they're like, look, it's just possible. Possible. What? What does that even mean? Right? So, um, and, and I think what we also come back to is like, I, you know, I feel like we're living through this moment where there's increased attention on these things. That's good. That's good. I'm glad we all need that. We all need that. But let's not pretend that we can pull out this single ingredient and replace it with something else and transform this food into a healthy food. It's not the case. And there's a cocktail effect to these things where it's a combination of things. So, the part of the issue that I see with like our current approach is like, we have 10,000 food additives. We've targeted some specific ones like artificial colors. They're going to start getting taken out, but, you know what? The food industry is just going to replace them with something else. And it's not like we're going to end up with something that was unhealthy and now it's healthy. That's not what's going to happen here. It's still unhealthy. It's maybe going from a D minus to a D. So, I, I think if we want real change, actually, we can't wait for our governing bodies, Chuck, to take care of these things for us. If we want real change, it starts with you. Yeah. We have to govern our own bodies. How about that? Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And that starts in the supermarket. It starts with what you buy. It starts with what you put into your pantry. If you don't bring it home, you're not going to be eating it. That's the bottom line.
All right, here we go. Level 2011 question. Let's drop down to Samantha. Can drinking soda contribute to autoimmune disorders by altering gut integrity? Wow, somebody's eating their Wheaties.
Well, it depends on the ingredients that we're talking about here. And so, like, again, take that Diet Pepsi where you rattled off about 12 different ingredients. Is it really necessary to have 12 ingredients to make cola? You think that's how they made cola 150 years ago? Like, or, or, you know, 100, 100 years ago. That's not how it was made. So, anyway, I think like the, uh, the point is that there's definite ingredients such as the artificial sweeteners or sugar that are known to disrupt gut integrity, and we have to be conscious and aware of that.
Elizabeth, can eliminating sugary beverages improve symptoms of digestive disorders like IBS and Crohn's?
100%. 100%. In fact, added sugar has been connected to both of those conditions and many more.
All right, Josh. Looking to make the change. How quickly does the gut microbiome begin to shift after you stop drinking the soda?
Well, uh, let's imagine that you were doing this on a daily basis and then one day you pulled the plug and you save yourself some money by drinking water that comes out of a filter. Within 24 hours, there will already be a change underway. And within a month, it will be a substantial change.
All right, I'm going to throw you what I think is a difficult question. I want for you to just mentally prepare. All right, because, yeah, this is, this is a Nolan Ryan heater that's coming down the pike here. Nicole, how does soda affect the production of short chain fatty acids that are critical for gut health?
If you disrupt, so if you, um, the gut microbiome, the gut barrier, and the immune system, they are interconnected. They rise and they fall together. When you have added sugar like this, substantial amounts, 43 grams in one drink. When you have that, you are disrupting the gut microbes. And also, it's actually been shown that if you go to the other side of the gut barrier, the bloodstream is now carrying all this extra sugar. And that excessively high blood sugar that you have that's spiked as a result of all those refined carbohydrates, simple carbohydrates that have no opposition. You absorb them. You spike your blood sugar, and that is actually disruptive to both your immune system and your gut barrier. So, in essence, what's happening here, Chuck, with when you have, um, added sugar, substantial amounts of added sugar in the diet, what's happening here is that you're disrupting the microbes, the gut barrier, and the immune system all at the same time.
All right. Uh, let's grab two more here. Amanda, first of all, uh, can kombucha help repair gut damage potentially that has been caused by long-term soda drinking? So, maybe she's thinking about the probiotics in particular here.
Well, it's not, it's, it's the probiotics, but it's also the, like, one of the things that I love about fermentation is the transformation that takes place. So, what was sweet tea is now kombucha. And that kombucha contains, um, these organic acids that are beneficial to your gut microbiome and that actually help to suppress pathogenic microbes. And that kombucha also has bioavailable, um, antioxidant compounds that through the fermentation process, in the same way that red wine has more bioavailable antioxidants than you would get from grape juice, you now have more bioavailable antioxidant compounds than you would get from tea alone. So, the point is that if you talk about repairing gut damage, what we're talking about here is the availability of new nutrients that help you to accomplish that. Yes, there's also the live microbes. They probably play some role, but really, to me, it's about what is being produced by those microbes.
All right, final question. Uh, Jennifer's got a question about bubble guts. Does the carbonation in soda affect digestion or gut flora differently than non-carbonated sugary drinks? Just the carbonation is what we're talking about here.
Yeah. The, we don't have great studies. It's like shocking how many carbonated beverages are sold on a daily basis. And I have to sit here and tell you that we don't have great research to bring to make it clear what they actually do. It's been a bit of a mixed bag. So, like, if you take this, like this is carbonated water, right? And, um, zero calories, literally nothing in it other than just water and carbonation. There was one study where people gained weight. So that would suggest a negative effect on the microbiome, but there's been more recent research that suggests that it helps with weight loss. So, it's a confusing picture. We need more, we need more research on this, Chuck. We don't have total clarity on this. Um, I tend to favor a view where like, if you are consuming these things, it's a little bit of a treat that you do in moderation. It's not like how you hydrate yourself through the day. So, I drink water all day. I drink coffee all day. I have my 38 Terra in the morning, and then it gets to be around 8:00, and I put my kids down, and I go to unwind. You know this, Chuck, because we're often texting each other around this time, and I'll pop, and I'll, I'll kick back, I'll relax. I give myself 90 minutes to two hours to unwind, and I might have a little bit of this with a little bit of this. Something like that. That's a nice little spritzer.
I'm like picturing you as a bartender. If we ever did a live event, I think that we should get a bar and you could just make drinks for people. Mocktails, you know, good mocktails. Yeah.
I've never been a bartender. I would be willing to try. But if I'm going to be a bartender, let me be Tom Cruise. Was that, uh, Cocktail? Cocktail. That's it. All right. That's cool.
This is, dude, that guy has come full circle, Chuck. Chuck, he's come full circle because he, he was great in the '80s, and then he lost his mind and jumped on the couch, and now we're coming all the way around. We're like, yo, this guy is our hero. He's our action hero, and he's 60, and he's jumping out of planes and off of boats and off of cliffs, and he's a wild man. I love that guy. He's from Syracuse, and I'm stoked. Uh, he's working on a Days of Thunder sequel, just being a NASCAR guy. Like, I mean, you think about all, we can't nerd out about this too much, but you think about like, he was like really, um, involved in picking out the shots for the Top Gun reboot and like making sure that they had all the right visuals that he wanted. He's going to be doing the same, no matter what genre he does. So for him to get involved and like shoot this, you know, race movie, racing movie like that, I think that that's going to be like pretty wild. Anyway, I'm sure I don't think that we'll see him hanging out, you know, you know, a car going 200 miles an hour around Daytona, but whatever.
No, but he'll be driving his own car. Yeah, I'm sure he will. Oh, yeah. It's amazing how many actors actually double as, as race car drivers on the weekend. Man, a lot of them do.
Uh, all right. Well, here's the deal. Uh, let's, uh, switch gears now. Uh, recently, uh, went back to the Mayo Clinic to get an update on my health. They wanted to run a few more tests, tests, and surprise, surprise, uh, they did find something. So, everything had kind of been coming up in this DGBI territory until now. Uh, something actually that had been ruled out much earlier, uh, was a hiatal hernia. And what I've come to learn is they can kind of be tricky to diagnose because they can be like sliding, and sometimes they're going to be there, sometimes they're not. On this particular occasion, uh, on two different days, consecutive days, uh, they were able to find it on two different kinds of tests. Um, and Dr. B, like, a lot of the symptoms that I've been experiencing over the last two years kind of line up in this, in this box, uh, in terms of what a hiatal hernia can do. The majority of people who have them are completely asymptomatic. Um, mine just may have progressed to the point where I'm, you know, always having heartburn. Um, sometimes you get that nerve irritation. I know that when the nerve irritation happens, it can mimic the symptoms of like lightheadedness or that drunk/stoned feeling that I've been having. A lot of people say it's kind of like having vertigo. Um, so I just thought that that was really interesting. More tests and consultations to come at the end of August. Matter of fact, right after the International Conference on Nutrition and Medicine. But I thought that that was a rather promising update. Can't say for sure that's what's going on, but I was like, man, this would make a lot of sense if, in fact, that's what's going on right now.
Yeah. Well, I know that earlier in your process, so just to unpack a few things there, that when you mentioned the DGBI, what, what, um, you're referring to is the disorders of gut-brain interaction, and that's basically the family that's like irritable bowel syndrome, but it's a much broader family than this. So, things don't necessarily fit into a box in a nice neat way the way we wish they always would. And so we have this broader term DGBI that allows us to make diagnoses that involve disorders of like how the gut is functioning and how the gut is connecting to the brain. And it turns out that the gut and the brain are connected to one another through an really important nerve called the vagus nerve. The vagus nerve, there's actually two of them. There's a pair. So the vagus, the vagus nerves are connecting these, uh, these parts of our body. But Chuck, in between there, between the gut and the brain is the.
diaphragm. The diaphragm is. If you take a very deep breath, the diaphragm will pull down, and it'll fill your lungs with air. The diaphragm compartmentalizes the abdomen. So the abdomen is down below the diaphragm, and then the thorax, the chest, is above the diaphragm. And so we obviously use this to breathe, but if you also think about like coughing or you think about hiccups, um, these involve the diaphragm as well.
Well, it turns out that the diaphragm is an important part of the barrier to acid reflux. When we breathe, the diaphragm pinches, and that helps to actually create a physical boundary. And the way that you get, if this is the diaphragm, my two hands right here, the way that you get a hiatal hernia is when the stomach starts to actually push up above the diaphragm. The stomach is not supposed to be above the diaphragm. The stomach is supposed to be down below the diaphragm, down here. So when it starts to push up, gets above the diaphragm, and it creates a pouch, this can make people prone to reflux.
But the other thing that can happen, Chuck, is that it can irritate the diaphragm that's sitting right there. And so I remember earlier in your process, when you, when you were at the Mayo Clinic, one of the things that they were kicking around is that there was a diaphragmatic issue, that there was an issue with the diaphragm. So I think, you know, one of the challenges that exists in complex, uh, medical cases is achieving the right diagnosis, because I have always been of the belief, how can you possibly treat something right if you don't know what you're treating? So good medicine always starts with that first step, which is understanding what the problem is. And it's been a long road, very.
And part of the challenge is that, like, again, here's the diaphragm, and here's the stomach. This stomach could slide up, and you have a hiatal hernia, and it could slide back down, and then you would not see a hiatal hernia. And so in that moment where it's down here, you go, "Oh, this guy doesn't have a hiatal hernia. What are they talking about?" And then it's up here, and they go, "No, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We got a hiatal hernia here." And you get these mixed images. And it's challenging because the solution to a hiatal hernia many times is a surgical approach. Yeah.
So, uh, I think that the point from my perspective, I think, like, the listeners can appreciate this has not been totally straightforward. There's medical complexity. There can be atypical symptoms. But I think what's happening is we're moving in a direction where there's increased clarity of what's going on. And that's a good thing. Yeah.
It's, I'm not thrilled whatsoever with the prospect of having another surgery, 'cause I just remember like having my gallbladder removed and like how rough of a recovery that was. Um, but I'm pretty sure that when it comes to the hiatal hernia, if in fact that's what's causing this nerve irritation, and it does, I mean, it will impair your vagus nerve majorly. Um, and that would explain some of the anxiety. Um, certainly, you know, shortness of breathing, some of the other random, uh, symptoms I've been having in terms of like rapid heartbeat for no reason. Um, like, it, it, it's just like it's a nasty little thing. And I don't want to say like, it's just a hiatal hernia. Like, it can be really, really, really just detrimental to a person's health. And, you know, I'm, I'm hoping against hope that it's it.
But I also want to say, like, in terms of the DGBI treatments that I've been undergoing, um, I wonder if they have been so beneficial because they have, because in fact, we're also kind of working to calm the nervous system down that has been so irritated for so long. So I don't. Yeah.
Well, when you target the vagus nerve and you target, because it's the biggest nerve, that's the dominant connection between the gut and the brain, right? DGBI is talking about the connection between the gut and the brain, and the vagus nerve is the dominant nerve there. And when you calm that down, it has effects on many aspects of our health, because the vagus nerve is also connected to our diaphragm, to our esophagus, to our heart, to our lungs. I mean, basically, this is the interconnection between our brain and our lower body. This is the, this is the information superhighway. So, um, so it's important to, uh, um, understand that. And when you provide that treatment to target that, then you can get, like, the rising tide lifts the tide for everything. All the boats go up. So that's a beautiful thing.
I'll tell you, like, and we'll wrap this up, but, uh, the, the last nasty part, uh, of this, um, I was talking to the doctors there after we got these results, and I was like, they found micronodules on my lungs, and they think it's because the acid is actually leaking up through the esophagus down into, uh, into the lungs, and that's what's actually causing these. So, we're going to try a few things and then, you know, see if these don't clear up, um, in a few months. But that would explain also the first, uh, time that I felt like my chest was on fire, and that was that trip out to Los Angeles, and I literally thought I was dying. And maybe that's just because there was just so much of it, um, in, in my lungs at that point. I don't know. Like, everything is still kind of a mystery, but this is just kind of the road that we're heading down right now. Um, so I just, I don't want anybody to think, oh, it's just a hiatal hernia. Like, this can be some pretty serious stuff. Like, you, you probably don't want stomach acid in your lungs. Take it from me. It sucks.
No, absolutely not. The hiatal hernia would put you at risk for that. You know, I had a, I had a case once when I was in Savannah. So this was, um, early in my career, after I had finished all my training, and I was in Savannah, Georgia for two years in, in practice, and there was a young man who was military, and he had hiccups literally around the clock, from the minute that he woke up to the minute that he went to bed. And he had been to everyone. And I'm, it, it was actually quite sad because this is like a, a young man who, he's a veteran, right? He should be celebrated, and in addition to this, he should be in the prime of his life and enjoying himself and happy. And this was like, just completely debilitating him. So he was depressed and suicidal. And the interesting thing is that the, the reason that he had the hiccups, the hiccups involved the diaphragm, was acid reflux. And it wasn't specifically a hiatal hernia, it was acid reflux. And it had been missed. And no one had adequately and appropriately treated him for acid reflux. And once we identified this and put him on treatment, it was like, and I actually didn't really hear from him much after that because he got better, which is a beautiful thing. Absolutely.
But my point is that we compartmentalize diagnosis. We, we view them as, oh, it's this or it's that. And these are the limitations of us where we're trying to describe complex things that are happening, and we're, we're really reducing them down to like a simple idea, when in fact, the entire body is complicated, interconnected. So it, it requires this holistic view, and I think that's part of what we're working on with you, Chuck. Yeah.
And, and like, it just blows my mind that I'm so, and this is not lost on me, I'm so fortunate to have so many good friends in the medical profession such as yourself, and to be able to get in to see doctors at Johns Hopkins and the Mayo Clinic, and it's still taken two and a half, going on three years to get to this point. Yeah. Like, the body is a very complicated thing, especially when your symptoms seem to be all over the place. And it still wouldn't surprise me if we've got like more than one thing going on. Yeah. But man alive, you know, my heart just goes out to anybody who is just kind of treading water trying to figure out whiskey tango foxtrot, you know what I mean? Because being a medical mystery, as Christy Funk once told me, is never a good place to be. And that is, it's never a good place to be.
Well, it's, it's just like people need hope and optimism in their life. And when you feel like your health is not something that you have control over, and the medical doctors are perplexed by it, like, if, if the people who have like, you know, I mean, I was in school until I was 34 in order to do what I do. Yeah. And like, if the person who spends that much of their life on their education doesn't know what's going on, it's like quite, um, upsetting. So, but I think that like the key here, Chuck, is that you, you know, I actually am very grateful that you share this, because like, it probably is easier for you to not, but because you do, I think that other people can like find hope and inspiration in their own lives and know that there's a path to healing that does exist, and we just need to find, like, we just need to find that thread and follow it to the finish line to get you where you need to be. I so look forward to that day. I so look forward to that day.
Like, I've always just had this picture in mind. Like, my father-in-law once asked me, he's like, "What's the first thing you're going to do when you feel normal again?" I was like, "Man, all I'm gonna do is run out the front door with my hands over my head, just like run down the street just like cheering." And that's it, you know? Run to the stop sign and back at the end of the block, you know? And that's that's all I want. Just to say I'm, I'm normal again, man. And, uh, I, I don't think that feeling normal is asking too much. I'm not asking to be put back to 110%. Just get, just get me as close to 100 as possible, and I will not be greedy. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah.
We'll get you there, bud. Yeah, I think so. I'm feeling more confident than ever, to be honest with you. Um, man. Yeah. What a journey. What a journey. So, uh, anyway, uh, what's, uh, what's new with you, man? What's going on in the, uh, the world of Dr. Will Bulsiewicz? Any classes, any courses? Anything fun coming up?
Um, well, I guess let me say this, that I'm going to be going out to Las Vegas and doing an event with Chef AJ, uh, at the end of August. So, for anyone who's interested in doing a Chef AJ retreat, um, I will be there in person. So, come join me. I think it's going to be a lot of fun. And then I'm also, um, going to be speaking at the Plant-Based Nutrition and Health Conference in California in Palm Springs in early September. So those are two great exciting events, and I invite anyone who's interested, come and join us and be a part of it.
Always support my friend AJ. Always support my good friend Dr. B, the Gut Health MD. A whole lot of P.E. I know, uh, AJ's Vegas party. I mean, that lineup is stacked, brother. So you're going to have a good time. Maybe bring kombucha down to the craps table, too. Test your luck, huh? Have a little fun. I'm just saying, it's Vegas. So, uh, all right, man. Well, look, we'll drop some links to that for, uh, for everybody in the show description and in the episode notes. And, uh, don't forget, if you're in the DC area, the International Conference on Nutrition and Medicine is coming up August 14th through the 16th. I'm going to be there, uh, all three days, actually hosting a game show with Dr. Roxy Becker the very first night. Yeah, we're doing nutrition trivia, uh, with four of the biggest names, uh, in nutrition, including the aforementioned Dr. Christy Funk, Dr. Gemma Newman, uh, will also be part of that, and, uh, two more names to be announced. But, uh, stay tuned. Everybody should be a very good time, and we're going to be doing episodes of The Exam Room, uh, every day of the conference, and, uh, before that, actually, starting, uh, this weekend, um, going to be doing the 21-Day Kickstart out at GreenFare. They're going to be hooking us up with 42, get this, man, 42 sugar, oil, and salt-free organic meals for three weeks, 21 days, and, uh, that's going to be, uh, good stuff there. Uh, four classes that are going to get you going, uh, on your health journey. I'm going to be out there talking about, uh, everything I've been going through, maybe learning some things or two. So, this is going to be every Saturday. They're going to teach you about the importance of sleep and fasting and exercise, and how to break food addictions, and learning about label reading, some of the stuff that you and I, Dr. B, were talking about today. Going to show you how to cook in a healthy manner, do some meal planning, all good stuff. All going to get you, uh, set up on the straight and narrow. We've got a link for you to sign up to that. Man, we got a lot going on, bro. We got a lot going on. Yeah.
And by the way, next time you're in the DC area, I'm going to take you to GreenFare, and you and me, we're going to chow down on the quinoa with the baked tofu. Going to change your life. Yeah. It's going to change your life. Nice. The, the same way the cacao pal smoothie at Fruitive, right across the street from ICNM, changes people's lives. You sit down for this quinoa and the tofu, you're gonna say, "Thank you. Amazing. Please, sir." You should. Yeah. Damn right. And that's all me.
All right, dude. Well, look, I appreciate all your time today, man. This has been a really enlightening show. I think I'm going to go drink another third of the bottle of, uh, honey crisp apple flavored. Get that water. Yeah, get the RO water in there, too. All right, man. Well, I got to go get me an RO filter, reverse osmosis filter first. That sounds like fun. And I like the fact that the electrolytes get added back in there, too. So, that's, yeah. You got, it's a little bit extra, but like the, the key here, keep in mind, is that these upfront expenses, you pay once, and it's done. And now you got your RO filter, and you don't have to be buying your coffee, and buying your soda, and buying these different things. Use the filter, drink the water, take advantage of it. It's beautiful.
Well, what if I make my coffee with the water? Even better. I like coffee. Yeah, I love coffee. I love coffee. But I'm, what I'm saying is like, you know, when it, I think it's important to contextualize that something that costs a couple hundred bucks, when you distribute that out over several years, if you actually use it several times a day, you will save a ton of money relative to getting a drink at Starbucks, drinking a couple cans of soda, even drinking a kombucha. You will save money.
Oh, bro. Like, the wife and I, we pay, I think like a little over $50 a month for water delivery. Spring water. They come in the like big five-gallon jugs, and we've got the bubbler. But now, like, I'm thinking, like, 'cause we've been talking a lot about microplastics today, and, and recently here on the show as well, like, well, those are all plastic bottles, man. And, you know, they get delivered, they're, they sit out in the sun. It's just like, oh boy. I think this plastic thing is a concept that we have to really start to open our minds up to and pay attention, because, um, it's everywhere, and we have been ignoring it. A a spoon's worth of plastic in their brains, according to that study. That is gross, man. Yeah. And that's just the brain.
Anyway, on that pleasant note, thanks, dude. Great talking to you, Dr. B, the Gut Health MD. Hey, look, if you feel like you've raised your health IQ by a point or two, be sure to like this video, subscribe to us on YouTube, or leave a five-star rating wherever it is that you get your podcast, whether that's Apple, Spotify, wherever. Go ahead and raise your health IQ. Pass it forward. Also want to say thank you to the crew behind the scenes for making the magic happen. And thank you, Exam Roomies, for hanging out, asking such wonderful questions about soda, kombucha, and all things in between. And for everybody here at the Physicians Committee, I am the weight loss champion, Chuck Carroll. We will talk to you again very soon. But until then, keep it plant-based.